Early Top 10 TE Rankings + Rookie Steals

Summary

Fantasy Footballers Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Early Top 10 TE Rankings + Rookie Steals
Release Date: May 7, 2019
Hosts: Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, Mike "The Fantasy Hitman" Wright

---

Introduction

In this episode of the Fantasy Footballers Podcast, hosts Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike Wright delve into their early rankings for the top ten tight ends (TEs) in fantasy football, alongside highlighting potential rookie steals. As the conversation unfolds post-draft, the trio provides in-depth analysis, strategic insights, and differing viewpoints on the tight end landscape for the upcoming season.

Early Top 10 Tight End Rankings

1. Travis Kelce

Andy Holloway opens the discussion by unanimously ranking Travis Kelce as the number one tight end. Highlighting Kelce's consistency and record-breaking performance, Andy states:

“Last season, number one finished as the number one tight end, 103 receptions over 1300 yards. Think he briefly broke the record for... [10:25].” (00:15:07)

Key Points:

• Consistency: Kelce has been a top-tier tight end for multiple seasons, providing reliable performances week in and week out.
• Target Share: With Patrick Mahomes as his quarterback, Kelce benefits from a high and consistent target share, making him an elite asset in fantasy leagues.
• Value Proposition: Despite tight ends typically being a “onesie” position, Kelce stands out as a premium pick, justifying his high draft cost.

2. Zach Ertz

Zach Ertz secures the second spot in Jason Moore's rankings. The hosts discuss Ertz's explosive target increase last season and the surrounding factors influencing his performance:

“Last year, despite injuries, Ertz amassed 156 targets, setting an NFL record for tight ends.” (00:21:46)

Key Points:

• High Target Volume: Ertz's remarkable increase in targets positions him as a significant threat in the red zone.
• Team Dynamics: Changes in the team's offense and quarterback play are crucial to maintaining his high target count.
• Risk Factors: Potential competition and quarterback performance could impact Ertz's fantasy value, though his upside remains substantial.

3. George Kittle

George Kittle is ranked third, with the hosts acknowledging both his athletic prowess and the uncertainties surrounding his consistency:

“George Kittle, an absolute athletic monster... [00:25:08].” (00:26:11)

Key Points:

• Athleticism: Kittle's ability to break tackles and make explosive plays sets him apart from other tight ends.
• Injury Concerns: Past injuries and team offensive stability pose questions about his ability to replicate last season’s performance.
• High Upside: When healthy, Kittle has the potential to be a game-changing tight end, making him a valuable but somewhat risky pick.

4. O.J. Howard

O.J. Howard is positioned fourth, contingent on his health and the offensive system’s utilization:

“O.J. Howard needs to stay on the field. If he stays, he's too talented to not produce.” (00:31:37)

Key Points:

• Talent Level: Howard has demonstrated significant talent when healthy, making him a desirable mid-tier tight end.
• Team Offense: The Tampa Bay offense under Bruce Arians is expected to utilize Howard effectively, enhancing his fantasy prospects.
• Injury Risk: Past injuries limit his reliability, making his ranking dependent on his ability to stay healthy throughout the season.

5. Evan Ingram

Ranked fifth, Evan Ingram is viewed as a potential value pick due to his opportunity in the Giants' offense:

“Evan Ingram... absolutely has the opportunity to be the focal point of the offense.” (00:34:15)

Key Points:

• Opportunity: With Odell Beckham Jr. no longer in the picture, Ingram could see increased targets and become a primary option.
• Consistency: Ingram has shown the ability to perform when given opportunities, though his overall volume remains uncertain.
• Risk vs. Reward: As a fifth-round pick, Ingram presents a high-reward option with manageable risk, contingent on his role expanding.

6. Hunter Henry

Hunter Henry follows as the sixth-ranked tight end, with his performance last season bolstering his position:

“Hunter Henry is coming off of... [00:37:43].” (00:37:43)

Key Points:

• Performance Boost: After missing games, Henry showcased his skills upon return, signaling potential for a strong comeback.
• Team Offense: Playing alongside Philip Rivers, Henry benefits from a quarterback known for effectively utilizing tight ends.
• Injury Concerns: His ranking reflects some caution due to previous injuries, though his upside remains attractive.

7. Eric Ebron

Eric Ebron is placed seventh, with debates surrounding his touchdown potential and role in the Colts' offense:

“Eric Ebron is just a... with those baby hands.” (00:42:35)

Key Points:

• Touchdown Potential: Ebron’s knack for red-zone targets makes him a valuable option for fantasy owners looking for touchdown upside.
• Competition: The return of Jack Doyle could limit Ebron's target share, impacting his consistency.
• System Fit: Under new coaching and offensive schemes, Ebron’s usage and productivity remain points of consideration.

8. David Njoku

David Njoku emerges eighth, with discussions about his consistency and potential in the Browns' offense:

“David Njoku finished as the number nine tight end.” (00:46:09)

Key Points:

• Consistency: Njoku has shown flashes of brilliance but lacks the steady production seen from top-tier tight ends.
• Offensive Role: As the primary tight end in Cleveland, Njoku has the opportunity to command more targets and improve his fantasy value.
• Development: Being in his third year, Njoku may continue to develop and become a more reliable option.

9. Jared Cook

Jared Cook holds the ninth spot, with his move to the Saints and the potential impact on his performance:

“Jared Cook comes in on one of the best offenses in football now.” (00:50:25)

Key Points:

• Offensive Scheme: Joining the Saints provides Cook with a favorable environment to maximize his target opportunities.
• Age Factor: At 32, Cook is nearing the latter part of his career, which may influence his long-term consistency.
• Role in Team: With a strong quarterback and offensive weapons, Cook could see an uptick in his production, though age remains a concern.

10. Vance McDonald

Vance McDonald rounds out the top ten, highlighted for his potential to become a significant target in the Browns' offense:

“Vance McDonald has that potential... [00:54:43].” (00:54:43)

Key Points:

• Opportunity: With the departure of key targets, McDonald stands to inherit a larger role and more targets.
• Team Offense: Under Bruce Arians, the offense is expected to utilize tight ends more effectively, benefiting McDonald’s fantasy prospects.
• Projected Targets: While currently limited, McDonald’s usage could expand, making him a valuable late-round pick with upside.

Rookie Steals

The hosts briefly touch upon the value of second-round rookie picks, emphasizing players like Damien Harris:

“Damian Harris... breaks the load and gives you good balance.” (00:10:17)

Key Points:

• Undervalued Rookies: Identifying rookies who have slipped in the draft but possess significant upside can provide a strategic advantage.
• Team Needs: Focusing on players who fit seamlessly into their team's offensive schemes can enhance their fantasy impact.
• Long-Term Value: In dynasty leagues, selecting younger players with potential for growth is crucial for sustained success.

Mailbag Highlights

In the mailbag segment, Brian from Charlotte poses a question regarding draft strategy:

“In my redraft league, if you win the championship... [00:56:33].” (00:56:33)

Question: Brian asks whether he should draft first overall in his standard 10-man snake draft league if he wins the championship.

Hosts' Response:

• Mike Wright: Prefers being as far back in the first round as possible to secure an elite running back, such as Ezekiel Elliott or Alvin Kamara, essential for building a strong foundational team.
• Andy Holloway: Aligns with prioritizing top-tier running backs to ensure consistent performance throughout the season.
• Jason Moore: Emphasizes the importance of selecting versatile and high-scoring running backs to maximize fantasy points.

Conclusion

The episode provides a comprehensive overview of early tight end rankings, offering listeners valuable insights into potential draft strategies and player evaluations. The hosts effectively balance consensus opinions with individual perspectives, enabling fantasy football enthusiasts to make informed decisions as they prepare for their drafts.

For more detailed rankings, player analysis, and insider tips, tune into future episodes of the Fantasy Footballers Podcast.

Transcript

[Andy Holloway]

Hey, Foot Clan, the live tour is coming up. Come see the footballers. We're going to be in five cities. You can learn all about it at ballerslive.com LA is already almost sold out, but there are tickets left in Chicago, San Francisco, New York and Phoenix. Ballerslive.com this is DD Westbrook here with.

[Jason Moore]

The Jacksonville Jaguars and you're listening to.

[Mike Wright]

The Fantasy Footballers Podcast.

[Jason Moore]

Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast coming to you from Pristine Auction.com Studios with your hosts, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore and Mike Wright.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, welcome in. It's great to be back with you. It's Tuesday, May 7, and this is the Fantasy Footballers Podcast. Mike Wright, Jason Moore, I am Andy Holloway. Excited to talk about some early tight end rankings on the show today, some rookie questions. It's exciting to just be post draft, you know, we're in a post draft world now, guys.

[Mike Wright]

You want to know what's exciting? There are 142 people in a very exclusive club.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay.

[Jason Moore]

Very.

[Mike Wright]

Only 140.

[Andy Holloway]

142 people. Got it.

[Mike Wright]

I happen to be one of those 142.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay.

[Mike Wright]

Those are the people that head coach Jeff Fisher follows on Twitter.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, we're going there, are we?

[Mike Wright]

Jeff Fisher can't get enough of those FF Hitman hot takes.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. Yeah. I would say you hit on 7 to 9.

[Jason Moore]

Oh.

[Andy Holloway]

Tweets a month or so. Yes. Mike was very, very excited. Not only see Mike, you didn't even play cool.

[Mike Wright]

No.

[Andy Holloway]

Because as soon as he followed you for whatever reason, you then tweeted to everyone else that he followed you.

[Jason Moore]

Yes.

[Mike Wright]

Why would you not do that?

[Andy Holloway]

I think if you had played it a little more cool, he would be on the show today.

[Mike Wright]

Jason, if we are, if Jeff Fisher followed you, are you just going to keep the mum or are you going to broadcast it to the world?

[Jason Moore]

Well, I'm gonna broadcast it, of course, but, you know, I'd probably paint it on my chest, take a picture of myself, put it out there. Not just a simple screenshot. That was.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, you became Jeff Fisher for Halloween last year and.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

And yet he follows Mike.

[Mike Wright]

So you're putting me on blast. Jason jumped into Jeff Fisher's thread with a photo of him as Jeff Fisher trying to bait Follow Jeff.

[Jason Moore]

Where's my follow? I dressed up as you.

[Mike Wright]

I'm just.

[Andy Holloway]

I just am surprised. Like, I would have played it, you know, maybe slide into the DMs.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, the DMs.

[Andy Holloway]

And be like, hey, you know, we are efforting. He's your peer.

[Jason Moore]

Getting him on the Show.

[Andy Holloway]

Once you follow him, he follows you.

[Mike Wright]

I slid into those DMs the best I could, but I needed a. This was a blitzkrieg of trying to get Jeff Fisher on this show.

[Andy Holloway]

You want to know why he hasn't answered you yet?

[Mike Wright]

Why is that?

[Andy Holloway]

Because he was in a little. He drove about 6, 60 miles into a small cell phone window, trolled people on Twitter and drove back out to fly fish in Montana. That's exactly what happened.

[Mike Wright]

You're probably right.

[Andy Holloway]

He is. He couldn't care. Hey, that just means he does not care at all.

[Jason Moore]

Means once he's got cell service again, he's in. He'll be on the show, everybody.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay, well, today we do have early tight end rankings. Follow us on Twitter heffballers. The website is the fantasy footballers dot com. The community is jointhefoot.com and as always, thanks to everybody subscribing, reviewing on the various platforms. Wherever you're listening, YouTube, make sure you subscribe. Click the bell, be alerted to random live streams. We did one last week and we did that because we were talking about the live tour. So we do a live podcast tour. We're coming to la, San Francisco, New York, Chicago and Phoenix this year. And we'd love to see you there. Yes, at the last count, we just announced it last week. LA is tickets pretty much gone.

[Mike Wright]

But last we heard, there was five left.

[Andy Holloway]

That's true.

[Jason Moore]

I believe we heard less than five.

[Mike Wright]

So there are four left.

[Andy Holloway]

Between one and four tickets remaining.

[Jason Moore]

What is that?

[Mike Wright]

Less than five?

[Andy Holloway]

I don't know why? That's the update we got.

[Mike Wright]

It's a very difficult thing to get the exact number of a number that is less than 5 somewhere in that.

[Jason Moore]

1 to 4 range.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, so la, la, maybe. Maybe filled up again. Shout out to everybody, pick who picked up all the VIP tickets. They're all sold out. All the proceeds from those tickets go to St. Jude Children's Hospital. And there are tickets available in San Francisco, New York, Chicago. Chicago is close to a lot of places you could Green Bay and Madison and Milwaukee and parts of Indiana, Michigan, Grand Rapids. I think that's Brooks, isn't that close to Chicago? Yeah. You can drive. My point is you can drive.

[Jason Moore]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

If you're in or around Chicago. Jason, what states are right near Chicago?

[Jason Moore]

Right near Chicago.

[Mike Wright]

What state is Chicago in? Oh, step one, Illinois. All right. Okay. All right, we got one.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, it's in another state. Oh, no, Chicago, Montana.

[Andy Holloway]

But yeah, Indiana is close. I think that's true. Indianapolis, you can make it. You can get there. That's what I'm saying. We'd love to see you. It's going to be a lot of fun. It's a live taping of the show and it goes live during the most exciting time of the year. Fantasy football draft season, live questions, all that stuff. Ballerslive.com here's your quick question of the day, guys. And I hope to get into some mailbag at the end answer foot clan listener questions as well. Here's your quick question. Who is your favorite rookie that isn't in the first round rookie average draft position. So the ADP no. 1 in that first 12 picks but who's your favorite rookie outside the top 12 by ADP last year? This is where Jason brought up Dante Pettis, his name. He was not part of the top 12 last year, but Dante Pettis had a, you know, a breakout season before dealing with some injury. But is there a name that you just love?

[Jason Moore]

Yes. And it's the one that Mike has.

[Mike Wright]

I did it. You want me to jump in there?

[Jason Moore]

You should jump in because I think this, this should be the first one we talk about.

[Mike Wright]

Is it like it feels like people have no idea what to do with this guy And I will readily admit I am right there with you. But Deontay Johnson was drafted third round, correct? Third round by the Pittsburgh Steelers.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes.

[Mike Wright]

And it's just the Steelers are very interested in Deontay that makes me very interested with him. And I've seen him go third round late second round. And they, the Steelers just, they have a very strong track record of hitting on receivers. Not it's not 100%, but nobody hits 100% on any position in the NFL and they have a need like Dante Moncrief could be eventually replaced in a year or so by Deontay. And if he is a part of that, part of the starters with him and Juju, if he does earn that spot and you drafted him at the back of the second or the third, my goodness.

[Jason Moore]

It's really what you're drafting here is more than just Deontay. It's the Steelers organization because it's not just the scouting.

[Andy Holloway]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

It's not just teams don't have a good track record of developing the same position over and over because only they're just so good at scouting. It's a combination of the scouting mixed with they got the people and the coaches and the team in place to help groom them and bring them along and they've proven that. So I like.

[Andy Holloway]

Can I ask a question?

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

Because all the endorsement that you're giving to the Steelers. Right. You lose Antonio Brown, all those targets, and Deontay Johnson's interesting. He's 5 11, he's 180. He's basically a physical clone of Antonio Brown. Great open field runner, not a burner. But the argument you make for Pittsburgh, they drafted James Washington in the second round last year.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, that's why it's not perfect. But people were scooping James Washington up at the back of the first round last year.

[Andy Holloway]

Do you feel the same bullishness about Washington stepping up into that and being developed by that Pittsburgh system into the next great wide receiver? Like, would you say right now you're in a dynasty league? You've got to pick Deontay Johnson or James Washington? Who do you pick?

[Jason Moore]

Definitely James Washington. Yes. I mean, without a doubt. This isn't saying, this is saying for rookie only drafts, when you're looking for value in the second round, and usually value in the second round, you hit less than 40% of the time just on ADP. You go back over years and say how many of them panned out. You're looking for certain situations or skill types or, you know, little markers that give an avenue for success. And the fact that it's a highly drafted wide receiver, Steeler, in the year that they lost Antonio Brown, it just says, yeah, I'll take my dart throw on that guy. The name I was going to bring up, and I know I'm much higher than you two. You are in.

[Mike Wright]

I'm not off of him. You just are very bullish.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, he's my 7 7th player overall in rookie drafts is Damian Harris, which is the rookie running back drafted by the New England Patriots. And the way that I see it is this. I believe if Rex Burkhead was healthy last year, he would have had a pretty valuable role for fantasy football. He would be used around the goal line. He's used, you know, through the air. And I believe that they are replacing Rex Burkhead with Damien Harris, a player who is very overshadowed because he was on the same team, you know, with Josh Jacobs, who is, you know, was the only first rounder pick this year, was the clearly the better talent. But I think he's well rounded, I think he's solid. He breaks tackles, he, he's got good balance, he can catch the ball and you put him in that New England team. If they get rid of Rex Burkhead, I think there's an opportunity there for fantasy relevance. And that's just that. And that's speaking this Year which usually in the second round of dynasty rookie picks, you're kind of looking more for a longer term a future play like Dante Pettis last year was more about the future.

[Andy Holloway]

I think it's interesting. I think we know a few things about the New England backfield. One, that it can be a little bit murky and difficult to ascertain who's playing. The second thing is that Sony Michelle is not going to catch any passes. And so you have James White involved heavily. You've got Sony Michelle who they rode to, you know, a very successful postseason. As successful as they get.

[Jason Moore]

I was going to say a Super bowl is pretty successful.

[Andy Holloway]

But I think it does come down to, you know, Burkhead, like you said, you know, we all like Damien Harris on film and James White is also.

[Mike Wright]

About to hit that point where New England is not going to be interested.

[Andy Holloway]

In him from a financial standpoint.

[Mike Wright]

Just he's. He's 27. They just.

[Andy Holloway]

Just saying that pass catchers like that though can. They can last a long while.

[Mike Wright]

They can. But the page. The Patriots don't like to pay people.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, sure. And that's why, that's why I was asking like when is his contract kind of.

[Jason Moore]

He's.

[Mike Wright]

He's under contract for two more years and it's not that he's crazy expensive. They just. I don't know. James White is. Feels like one of those guys that after this season the Patriots might just say, well, we got Sony and we got Damien. We're good without you.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, I'll complete the what Triple D names here. We got Deontay Damien and I'll go with Darrell Henderson. We've talked about him a little bit on the show. Rookie running back traded up for by the Los Angeles Rams. I think he will be an impactful running back three in year one for fantasy football owners. So you're not talking about somebody that, you know, you're not going to project Todd Gurley to be injured and out the entire season. But he is an explosive player. He is capable in the passing game. He is capable of taking pressure off of Todd Gurley and giving you what I think will equate to a pretty good yard per carry behind that offensive line. So I think you're looking at a rookie season that can be pretty strong for Darrell Henderson. Some pop games probably north of 700 yards rushing.

[Mike Wright]

Wow.

[Andy Holloway]

I think he's a very capable runner and I think that we just don't know how light the load will be on Todd Gurley. What they will do with him. Everybody We've beat it into the ground. The unknowns. Right. Where do you draft. What did you just bring up about Todd Gurley for the high stakes, the ffpc.

[Mike Wright]

So there's like you're talking really high stakes fantasy drafts and now it's very high stakes. And it's early on in the process, but people are already getting their drafts going. And I think it was. Evan Silva had pointed this out. Todd Gurley went at 210 the back of the second round. So that, that's how concerned high stakes players are right now with Todd Gurley.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. You don't. I don't think any of them want to bomb their first selection.

[Jason Moore]

Right.

[Andy Holloway]

Or apparently their second selection. It's interesting. So I think the range of outcomes for Gurley is. I mean, he was incredible. You just look at last year, even in a year when he was hurt, still 17 touchdowns on the ground, a monster. So you probably will feel the cloud above Todd Gurley for a lot of this offseason, but there's a lot of good underneath it if you. If he's healthy.

[Jason Moore]

Stay healthy, my friend.

[Andy Holloway]

Stay healthy. For Jason's Dynasty team. We're not going to get into any specific news notes, nothing huge today. Do want to remind you to check out the sleeper app for the latest breaking news. Also a great platform for dynasty leagues, for redraft leagues, modern design, infinite customizations. Check it out. All free. Otherwise, let's look.

[Jason Moore]

It's.

[Mike Wright]

It's super ridiculous, but it's low key. Interesting to me that the Bucks brought in Kerwin Williams, that, that Bruce Arians is getting the old gang back together.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Carson Palmer is coming out of retirement.

[Mike Wright]

Just. Just saying. He brought in Andre Ellington. He's brought in Kerwin Williams. Bruce Arians likes you think Jellyfield is.

[Andy Holloway]

Crying in Oakland right now?

[Mike Wright]

He could be.

[Andy Holloway]

Didn't they sign him before they signed Tyrell Williams?

[Mike Wright]

Off the top of my head, I.

[Andy Holloway]

Looked at, I looked at that Oakland depth chart this morning and I just threw my hands up because it was.

[Jason Moore]

Like 100 wide receivers.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. Antonio Brown, Tyrell Williams, Hunt. What? Hunter Renfro.

[Jason Moore]

Yep.

[Andy Holloway]

It just goes on and on. All right, early tight ends. Let's do it.

[Jason Moore]

Tight ends.

[Andy Holloway]

That's just some vicious announcement. Tight end Travis Kelsey is our number one tight end.

[Mike Wright]

Yes. Nothing to see here. Move along.

[Andy Holloway]

The gap is big for me. The gap is pretty big. Travis Kelsey as is number one on all three of our initial early tight end rankings.

[Jason Moore]

And by our you mean everyone's.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, yeah. Consistency, rank. Last season, number one finished as the number one tight end, 103 receptions over 1300 yards. Think he briefly broke the record for.

[Mike Wright]

Yes, for an hour or so.

[Jason Moore]

The record for shortest record holder in the NFL.

[Andy Holloway]

10 touchdowns, 150 targets last year. And as of right now, with all the Tyree kill unknown. I mean just so much more cemented, solidified as Patrick Mahomes number one target. You know, distributing targets beyond Travis Kelsey is difficult right now.

[Mike Wright]

Yes, it is.

[Andy Holloway]

You sit down and you're looking at Damian Williams and you're looking at Sammy Watkins and me, Cole. Me, Cole Hardman, Demarcus Robinson. And this is why Travis Kelsey's where he is and close to the record for targets at the tight end position that Zach Ertz had, which was 156. Kelsey had 150. He's been a top two tight end in each of the last three seasons. Guys, I mean, what can you tell listeners about Kelsey they don't already know?

[Mike Wright]

It's just about the draft stock. Where are you willing to take him? He was, he was a top 10 wide receiver. Like if you give him, if you put him in the wide receiver category, he was very helpful for your team. Now he's just. It's a onesie position we talk about. We don't like taking those guys early in the draft because it's easier to replace them since you only need the one. But Travis Kelsey. And you said you have a wide gap between him and your number two who we won't reveal yet because that would be a massive spoiler.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, I guess so.

[Mike Wright]

Are you willing to pay up the price which come draft time is going to be a high, high end second round pick for Travis Kelsey?

[Andy Holloway]

Yes, I think so. I think I'm willing to pay that price for Travis Kelsey. I, I do think he's in his own tier now. You guys might answer that differently. You might put S class for me.

[Jason Moore]

S class, yes.

[Mike Wright]

If you buy that goes by video game rankings, by the way, if you're not familiar.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, no, I would be.

[Andy Holloway]

Still don't know whether that means he's in his own tier.

[Mike Wright]

S class is above A.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay. By himself.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

All right.

[Jason Moore]

I would put him by himself as well. I would be willing to take him in the second round because barring injury, which can happen to any player, any position, he is a locked and loaded stud. That will give you a positional advantage. The reason that I've got him there over Ertz, who. I love Ertz. But the, you know, if you look at the jump of targets that Ertz had this past season going from being around 105 targets the last several years, which was great. He jumps up to the record breaking 156. Well, Travis Kelce over the last few years, 117 targets, then he jumped up to 122 targets, then 150. He. This is where he's going to be living. I'm much more confident, especially you look.

[Mike Wright]

At you confident in those touchdowns because that's what that was the big jump for Kelsey.

[Jason Moore]

That was the big jump, but it wasn't.

[Andy Holloway]

He's always struggling with. With that aspect of the game. He's never been a Gronk.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. I mean he had eight touchdowns the season prior. And I think that I trust Patrick Mahomes.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

To throw touchdowns. So I am 100% confident that Travis Kelsey, if he plays 16 games, he's. He's certainly not going to catch fewer than eight touchdowns. That's his baseline to me and his ceiling. I mean, if he ends up as, you know, his ceiling is 15. Touchdown guy. I've probably got him projected. I don't have my projection right in front of me. I've probably got him projected for 10.

[Andy Holloway]

Let's use it to. Let's continue the conversation into Zach Ertz, who we have at number two. One of the reasons that, you know, Ertz's target totals went so astronomically high is you had really no one else. You know, there was a bit of the same story between Ertz and what happened with Kittle last year in San Francisco. You know, we know there's two sides to this. To me, one is that Ertz and Carson Wentz, they are thick as thieves.

[Mike Wright]

Right.

[Andy Holloway]

And if you look at the first half of the season when Wins was available, the target count for Erzel is even more astronomical when averaged out over the season. That being said, you didn't have a healthy Alshon Jeffrey. You didn't have desean Jackson, you didn't have a Whiteside.

[Mike Wright]

It was Mike Wallace. I mean, Mike Wallace was brought in to be a huge part of his offense and he went down, you know, two games into the season, huge difference.

[Andy Holloway]

And they didn't really have weapons even out of the backfield in the passing game to start the year. So I think that by nature of just the career arc of Zach Ertz, it's unreasonable to expect anything close to 156 targets this year unless Jackson and Whiteside and Aguilar and these guys go down. So I think that's why there's the tear gap. In other words.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, sure, I would agree that with the tear gap. But the real tear gap is either right here or after the third tight end. And that's why, you know, you talk about the onesie position, how it's easily replaceable when you only need one player to start every single week. Usually you can grab guys off of waivers, but unlike the quarterback position where it is easy to replace because you have literally 25 guys who are great, 40 different players that are going to score as a top, you know, top 12 quarterback on, you know, on the season, on a weekly basis through the season. You don't have that at tight end. The tight end. You've got those top guys and then you've got utter trash. So I'm willing to take a risk on Kelsey or you know, as far as high, high cost on Kelsey, on Earth's and on Kittle.

[Mike Wright]

The last thing I want to point about. About. Point out about.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, you got it.

[Mike Wright]

We got it. About Ertz is yes, the target count had a huge jump. Had a count of plus 40. Plus 44.

[Andy Holloway]

44 exact.

[Mike Wright]

The previous two years though, you're talking Zach Ertz appeared in 14 games. So. And if you prorate out what his target share was looking like, he would have been in the 120s. So the jump wasn't as extreme as 44, but it's.

[Andy Holloway]

I am at 127.

[Mike Wright]

Okay.

[Andy Holloway]

For the upcoming year.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, I think that's a very fair.

[Andy Holloway]

In case you Forget last year, 156 targets, 116 receptions at the tight end position, NFL record 1,163 yards and eight touchdowns. So that was a target share of 23%.

[Jason Moore]

Whoo. That's bonkers.

[Mike Wright]

Give that to my tight end, please. Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

You know, even when you look at, you know, Kelsey, that's what Kelsey had 23% targets here. Those. That's why those guys are elite monsters.

[Jason Moore]

Did you bring up Goddard at all in. In. When we're talking about all the other people that could possibly encroach on targets. Desean Jackson. No.

[Andy Holloway]

He should be brought up second year.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Goddard, I expect to take a step forward them to use more two tight end sets. I think Goddard is actually going to be a guy that is deserving. You know, by the end of this season, I think he'll be a weekly startable asset and if that happens.

[Mike Wright]

So does that scare you off of Hertz?

[Jason Moore]

It doesn't scare me off of Hertz, but it has to be something that mitigates his true upside potential. I don't see him having the 150 targets that he had this last year.

[Mike Wright]

But he's going to be what, a third round pick? Maybe for Zach Ertz. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

We'll have probably the best. It's hard to say.

[Mike Wright]

I would rather pay this the early second for Travis.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I think I would too. All right, before we jump into our third ranked tight end, I do want to take a second. I want to thank SeatGeek. Look, the ticket industry has not changed in a long time. There are a bunch of big companies, they've been around forever. They don't care about making the experience easier. And if you know this show, we like things easy. We like them easy. Well, there are more than 50,000 five star reviews for the SeatGeek app. That's a lot. They are a ticket company that puts people first. Millions of tickets all over the web. They search them, they find them, they show them on the deal scale of 1 to 10, put them on a map, they just make it easy. Two taps. You got it. I've bought tons of tickets to Diamondbacks games. My son loves going to Diamondbacks games. We've grabbed Cardinal PrimeTime games with SeatGeek, it's easy. You pull out the app and you're done. I love not having to think about where to find tickets. I just use SeatGeek. And our listeners get $10 off their first SeatGeek purchase with the promo code ballers. Sea Geek supports our show, so go and support them. That's $10 off your first purchase of concert tickets, sports, comedy, whatever you're listening to, whatever you want to. Check out promo code ballers.

[Jason Moore]

And we also want to thank Lisa, who knows how important rest is to a better life. Lisa is the foundation of a healthier, happier you. All of their products have been thoughtfully designed to go beyond just creating a comfortable bed and transform your bedroom into a sanctuary that you want to spend time in. They're a great company. They donate for every 10 mattresses that they sell, they donate a mattress to nonprofits, those who are in need. They've donated to more than 32,000 different people in need of mattresses, which is great. I personally have their Sapira mattress if you're looking for that hybrid. The best foam, the best springs that come together, give you edge to edge support. It's awesome. Highly recommend it. Don't miss out. You can live healthier, happier by resting deeper. Order today and get 15% off your purchase for a limited time at Lisa Footballers. And use the promo code Footballers. That's Lisa. L E E S A.com Footballers promo code. Footballers. And keep in mind you also get a 100 night risk, free trial plus free shipping and returns.

[Andy Holloway]

All right guys, let's talk about George Kittle. I think he's very interesting. He's our number three. All three of us have him at number three. Last year the second most consistent tight ends finished the season as the number three tight end. Broke the record for yardage from the tight end position. 88 receptions, 1377 yards and five touchdowns on 136 targets. Last year during the off season we sat around this table and we talked about Evan Ingram. We talked about Evan Ingram's explosive breakout rookie season. We talked about the fact he was the beneficiary of injury on the New York Giant offensive side of the ball. Big explosive plays. But we looked at his numbers and we looked at the stats and we said I don't know if he can do that again. When you look at George Kittle, obviously we all have him at three but I do see a significant gap between the top two guys and Kittle and I just don't know how he repeats a season like this. Again you have the variables of different quarterbacks. Last season he had the injuries throughout the entire offense. Pettis, Goodwin, Goodwin, Carson, McKinnon.

[Jason Moore]

All of them.

[Andy Holloway]

All of them. So Kittle was. Now that being said, you know I brought this up around the office this morning because we're kind of talking about Kittle and I want to get your guys thoughts on it. But Brooks brought up this video of when I said go spend a Kittle on him. I spent my 44 fab on Kittle and it was on the basis of one game with Jimmy G. Yeah, very small sample. Running downfield routes and looking like a new Gronkowski. Somebody that could stretch the field from the position, somebody that could go. And we saw it last year. Massively explosive plays. Week 14, 30 and a half fantasy points. Week 17, 25 fantasy points. Those are weak winners. You get that from your tight end.

[Mike Wright]

It's over, right? Yeah. And it's hard to gauge him. The game you saw where you were real excited Week one, that was with Jimmy Garoppolo. Obviously lost Garoppolo early on in the season and the splits are more in favor for Kittle playing without Garoppolo this past year. But I feel like the sample is just too small, too small to really make any type of conclusion. And I think having him ranked at number three is, is going through the process of saying he is going to regress slightly. We don't think he's up on the level of Zach Ertz just yet, but he is an absolute athletic monster. Has the opportunity to be. Let me ask this. Do you think he can still be the number one option when they're with the Pettis in his second year and Goodwin and maybe Deebo Samuels getting involved?

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, 100% he can. I don't necessarily.

[Mike Wright]

Which is different than most tight ends are nowhere even near being the number one target for their team.

[Andy Holloway]

That's fair.

[Jason Moore]

That's what I basically wanted to bring up, is that he is not like other tight ends exactly the same way that Kelsey isn't. I mean, Kittle is, you know, an athletic freak. He's one of those guys that when you watch him break tackles and do things, he's just. He is an absolute beast. And there's, you know, you just can't teach that. So he has the opportunity.

[Mike Wright]

Can't teach beast.

[Jason Moore]

You can't teach beast. So he has this opportunity.

[Andy Holloway]

Marshawn's been saying it for years where.

[Jason Moore]

You know, you have an offense that we. I think we would all agree across the board, we expect the San Francisco 49ers to take a major step forward on offense this year. Would you guys agree with that? Having their actual starting quarterback and healthy wide receivers. They drafted a couple guys. Do you expect them to go up or down from last season as an offense?

[Mike Wright]

I don't. I'm not expecting major, but definitely maybe like a step and a half.

[Jason Moore]

It's not so much about what's the gap, but my point is they're trending upward. If the offense is better for San Francisco, even if he has fewer targets, that's still more opportunities around the goal line, things like that. So this is why he's number three. But he does carry risk because if Pettis breaks out and now all of a sudden they've got more, you know, with Debo Samuel and Jalen Hurd and these guys that are. That are not allowing Kittle to be up in the 130 targets, then there's risk there.

[Andy Holloway]

88 receptions last year for 1377 yards for your college career, 48 receptions. Yeah, well, he went 20 receptions in his junior year, 22 in his senior year.

[Mike Wright]

So I'm looking at fantasy football.

[Andy Holloway]

It just makes me laugh that you.

[Mike Wright]

Fantasy football calculator. But right now, Zach ertz is the 212 and George Kittle is the 305. Are you willing to pay the price for either of those guys if that ADP were to hold?

[Jason Moore]

But you just said Kelsey Is.

[Mike Wright]

No, I said ertz is the 212. George Kittle is the 305.

[Jason Moore]

I think I would pay up for Ertz. I would. I, you know, the truth is what you're sacrificing there.

[Andy Holloway]

Where's Kelsey?

[Mike Wright]

205.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, that would be the target. That would be the I would want the most.

[Mike Wright]

We all agree on Travis Kelsey. That's why I left him out of the question.

[Andy Holloway]

If you said 112, though, you know, there have been years in the past where Gronk has been a first round pick.

[Mike Wright]

I was like, hey, you guys want a Snickers bar or you want this broccoli? That's why I didn't put the Snickers bar.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, I think there was a time though, this off season and it was before the Tyreek stuff happened, but it just looked like on paper, like Kelsey was going so high and Kiddo was going so low that Kiddo was the obvious pit to me. I don't feel that way anymore.

[Mike Wright]

Right.

[Andy Holloway]

You got a round difference. So let's go to number four on our early tight end list. O.J. howard out of Tampa Bay. I have him at six. Jason, you got him up at four, Mike at five. O.J. howard needs to stay on the field. If O.J. howard stays on the field, he's too talented to not produce. I think that's what we can all agree on. He's in our number four overall tight end. Last year he finished at 13, but he was the fourth most consistent last year when he was actually on the field. So has to take a step forward. We know Cameron Brait's in the rearview mirror. Bruce Arians hasn't traditionally used tight ends, but again, I still go with the two talented rule.

[Mike Wright]

All right.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I mean, that's my thing is whatever Bruce Arians wants to do and he's going to put a better offense in place. Jameis Winston uses tight ends. Jameis Winston will look for his tight ends running down the field and there's no way they're not going to use O.J. howard and capitalize on the gifts that he has. If that's the case and he plays 16, I mean, you just said he was one of the most consistent tight ends when he was playing. If he stays healthy, I don't see how. I mean, right now I've got him down for only 86 targets total. And we've been talking about comparing that to these guys who were up at 130 plus targets. And this is coming out as my tight end four because I Think his red zone opportunity, his ability like Kittle to just break away on an 80 yard run. Not every tight end can do that. O.J. howard has done it multiple times and will continue to do it. So when you, when you have those big massive games, you also have a tight end coming into, what is this, his third year in the league. That's, you know, usually how long it takes a tight end to really come into their own, at least.

[Andy Holloway]

So his pace last year in games played, 77 targets, 54 receptions, 904 yards, eight touchdowns.

[Jason Moore]

That's great for a tight end in this landscape.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I mean, I think. And then you have real opportunity there they didn't spend up in the draft to go get another wide receiver option.

[Jason Moore]

You lost Humphreys.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

You lost D. Jacks. He's going to be used. And I, you know, coming out of college, if you, if you remember, if you've been with us for the last three plus years, when he was a rookie, this was a generational talent. O.J. howard was like, okay, since Gronk, he was, you know, we've talked a lot about TJ Hawkinson and Noah Fant this year. Two really good prospects. Neither one are close in my opinion and I think, I don't think either one. Fighting words. No, no, no. I'm saying in the, I don't even think this is controversial. I think if you look at what the normal scouting takes were at the collegiate level from then till now, OJ Howard was, was well above any tight end that's come out since then.

[Andy Holloway]

Evan ingram at number five. Mike, you got him at four, I got him at five. Jason at seven last season, regression 45 for 577 and three. Also injury. He missed six games during the season after the breakout rookie campaign in which he had finished number five at the position. Evan Ingram, in my opinion is potentially one of the sneakiest, best values in the draft. You know where he's going right now? Mike, do you know. Don't, don't tell me it's not five. Oh, five.

[Mike Wright]

Is he really?

[Andy Holloway]

He is. Do you like that value for Evan Ingram? No, you don't.

[Mike Wright]

And I'm, I'm, I feel like front of the bus driving team Evan Ingram, but I wouldn't pay a 5th rounder for him.

[Andy Holloway]

Here's one of the reasons I like now you have Golden Tate, you have Sterling Shepard, and both of those guys are going to soak up targets, but no Odell Beckham Jr. I just think Ingram has the opportunity to do a lot more with no.

[Mike Wright]

OBJ yeah, I completely agree with that. Last year, you're talking the four games without him, without Odell Beckham, where Evan Ingram was actually playing, he literally doubled his fantasy output. When he was given opportunity, he would come through almost every single time. And if you were watching any Giants games, if you had Evan Ingramstock, it could be incredibly frustrating of just why are you not even giving a target? Why is Evan Ingram on the field right now if you're just going to waste what he's doing? So I completely agree that he absolutely has the opportunity. Golden Tate. Golden Tate. Despite what Dave will say in his plan, Golden Tate is not a replacement for Odell Beckham Jr. It's a completely different player, completely different playing style. Golden Tate is not going to stretch the field entering his, what, like, 15th season. Golden Tate's been around for a while. So Evan Ingram absolutely has the opportunity. But it's not like George Kittle, where I feel decently confident that George Kittle can be the number one target on his team. Evan Ingram can be that he could become the focal point of the offense. He is absolutely on a Jordan Reed player spectrum where you could run the offense through they did two years ago. But I'm not, I'm not fifth round positive that that's what I'm going to get.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, it's all, it's all about risk and it's. You're 100% right. If golden Tape becomes the primary target, then Evan Ingram will be an afterthought. There's just not enough. Eli's not getting better at this stage in his career. Hey, sorry, Dave.

[Mike Wright]

It's me.

[Jason Moore]

Dave. Yeah, sorry. Eli's not getting better, so it's three years. The offense isn't better without Odell Beckham, but if Evan Ingram is the number one target, if he becomes that, then he's well worth a fifth round pick. If I had to put the odds out there, my odds are that he will not be that number one target. I think he'll be the third or fourth target on the team.

[Andy Holloway]

Third or fourth target on.

[Jason Moore]

On the Giants.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay.

[Jason Moore]

Because you've got, I mean, I definitely got Sterling Shepard probably ahead of him, Saquon ahead of him, and then it's a question of whether it's ahead of him or not.

[Mike Wright]

It's. It's just.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm willing to give Tate and Saquon the knot.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, I would take one for sure. But does he. Does he keep pace with Golden Tate? And I think he's still going to be good. He's my Fourth ranked tight end. Mostly because the other tight ends are garbage.

[Andy Holloway]

He's not going to block.

[Mike Wright]

Oh no, I don't want him to block.

[Jason Moore]

And that's great for fantasy.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Don't you start learning how to block, Evan.

[Andy Holloway]

It's one of the problems that O.J. howard had early on though, right? Too competent a blocker. It's one of the reasons people like Ingram over Howard in year one. Number six, Hunter Henry, Chargers tight end returns. Didn't play last year in 2017, 14 games, 45 for 579. 4.

[Jason Moore]

He's, he's a forgotten man.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

Had he played last year and dominated, he could very well be the third or fourth on this list. He is coming off of an however.

[Andy Holloway]

That does go for any player.

[Mike Wright]

Had they played last year and dominated.

[Andy Holloway]

If any player dominated last year, they would be near the top.

[Jason Moore]

Every player that we're talking about other than this one played last year and we know what we have in him.

[Mike Wright]

But if they, but if they play last year and they dominated, then we would. We've talked about him as a top three pick.

[Jason Moore]

Okay, fair. Guilty. Guilty as charged, your honor. But the point is you have Philip rivers who has 24, always utilized. I mean Antonio Gates has been.

[Mike Wright]

Henry is 24.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

Wow, that's a young boy. I mean Philip Rivers has always used the tight end well, especially around the goal line. Now you could obviously credit that to Antonio Gates being a Hall of fame caliber and some of that is rightly deserved. But it's a system and a team that wants to use a tight end and then you lose Tyrell Williams, they don't bring in a replacement. So targets have opened up for the offense when he comes back. You obviously also lost Gates, not that there was a whole lot of volume there, but the opportunity is there for this to be pretty much a three, a three headed offense to me between Keenan Allen, Mike Williams and Hunter Henry. And if this offense is, you know, trucking along, I mean Hunter Henry is not going to be, he's not going to cost you much. I can't imagine. I mean.

[Mike Wright]

Oh yes he is.

[Jason Moore]

You think he's. If Ingram is going at the fifth.

[Mike Wright]

Round on fantasy football calculator. So that's, that's the source I'm using. Hunter Henry is going six, seven spots behind Evan Ingram.

[Andy Holloway]

Get no thank you people.

[Mike Wright]

Look, he is.

[Andy Holloway]

No thank you.

[Mike Wright]

He's not as forgotten as you think.

[Jason Moore]

Apparently not.

[Mike Wright]

People love Hunter Henry.

[Jason Moore]

I thought for sure highest he would be. Would be eighth round for the people.

[Mike Wright]

People were stashing Hunter Henry through the ACL injury with the news that he might get on the field at the end of the year. The last love Hunter Henry.

[Andy Holloway]

Last year, tight ends in the Chargers offense demanded only 14.4% of the targets all the years prior.

[Mike Wright]

Come on, Virgil.

[Andy Holloway]

21, 25, 24, 21. So, yeah, the history is there. He has to stay healthy though. I'm not willing to spend a fifth six round pick on the hope that he's healthy because, I don't know, it seems risky. He has great upside. But there are, there are tight ends I'd probably prefer later on.

[Jason Moore]

If you don't get one of the early tight ends, then you take, you take. You know, usually the strategy is you wait until the double digits. You take someone around that 9 or 10 range who has the opportunity or the talent to kind of take a huge step forward and maybe become that guy. I'm certainly not going to be taking.

[Andy Holloway]

Him in the sixth round if that guy you wait on, oh, if he dominates, if he dominates, he will be drafted.

[Mike Wright]

If he dominates and plays this year, he'll dominate.

[Andy Holloway]

Next year.

[Mike Wright]

He'll be a top three pick.

[Jason Moore]

You heard it here first.

[Andy Holloway]

All right. Hey, we've got our first great controversy. Number seven on the list. Jason, you are the measured man here though, because you have him at 8 where he belongs. Mike has him at 11, I have him at 4. Eric Ebron last year finished his tight end 4 consistency rank of 5. He's 26 years old, 66 receptions, 750 yards and 13 touchdowns on 110 targets. New best friend for Andrew Luck. The red zone prowess, you know. Finally, Eric Ebram paid dividends for fantasy owners and we didn't believe it. And then once we did believe it, he had a couple random goosers, right? But then he came back and I mean, that's a ton of touchdowns last season. 110 targets. I don't think this season is going to be all that different for Eric Ebron. That's why I have my number four. So do I think he'll score 13 times? No, I have him at 10. I think he'll get in the end zone 10 times for Andrew Luck.

[Mike Wright]

I do, I think it was a friendship of opportunity. They have absolutely reloaded bringing in Devin Funches, bringing a high capital pick on Paris Campbell. And we get into it all the time about Jack Doyle, but Ebron's opera. Ebron really surged. He was still catching touchdowns when Jack Doyle was on the field. But when Jack Doyle went out with his Season ending injury. That's when Eric Ebron really started to shine. And Doyle is going to be back and Doyle is going to be on the field as the primary pass catching tight end in my opinion. So with all of those things, I just, I don't have Ebron coming close to the 10 touchdown.

[Andy Holloway]

What's it going to take for you to move? No, I don't even care if he believes in Ebron. I want to know what it's going to take from a history standpoint. Right. Even right now, Jack Doyle is dealing with recovery from injury. 12 games in 2017, four games in 2018. Why? Why the confidence that Doyle is going to be the premier guy. Isn't there, isn't there a world where a 26 year old Eric Ebron, 13 touchdowns, their head coach says to themselves, wow, that really worked.

[Jason Moore]

He's pretty good.

[Andy Holloway]

That worked out. He, why give it back to Doyle?

[Mike Wright]

Because Doyle is a complete tight end. Eric Ebron is just a, with those baby hands. Fair enough and missing something. And here's the last report from the Indianapolis Star in March 29 that Doyle is on track for training camp.

[Andy Holloway]

So always good.

[Mike Wright]

Just, just saying that. A report in March that you're going to be at training camp. I would anticipate him being there for.

[Jason Moore]

Here's the reason. So I've got him at a top 10 tight end. Not quite as high as you, Andy, but the argument for Ebron is simply this. Where he found his hay here in Indianapolis was touchdowns. Right. They're able to scheme and that's the.

[Mike Wright]

Absolute most consistent statistic in fantasy football.

[Jason Moore]

I get that there's huge regression there, but it's not, it's not a coincidence. Frank Reich comes to the Colts and is scheming the tight end around the end zone very similar to the systems that he's used in the past. That was why we liked Doyle and Ebron going into last season. Those were the arguments. If you look at the games where he played with Doyle versus without Doyle, he was actually far more valuable in the games with those five games where Doyle was registered as, you know, playing. He had big games with Doyle on the field. And why?

[Andy Holloway]

Because the office, he's not target defendant.

[Jason Moore]

The offense is moving. He's not a target.

[Andy Holloway]

He's touchdown defender.

[Jason Moore]

This guy's not going to be leading this team as the number one target. So there is risk there. You're, you know, on a lot of those touchdown or bust weeks. But I think if the offense is moving with Paris Campbell, who's not an over the top take it to the house type. Well, I mean, he could take it, but he's, you know, he's going to be taking more of the screen.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, you know, Hilton doesn't score more than six touchdowns a year. That's his entire M.O.

[Jason Moore]

For contract.

[Andy Holloway]

It's required. No, I mean, look, if this entire narrative had a different quarterback on the other end of it, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And again, in a PPR league, 60 catches is not going to get you what Ertz and those other guys get you. Doyle could catch more passes than Ebron does. I still think Ebron ends up ahead of him in fantasy due to the red zone prowess.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, it would be touchdowns because I agree Doyle will catch more passes than him. I do. Ebron will likely outscore him by touchdowns. But will. Will the gap be three touchdowns or will it be five?

[Andy Holloway]

Sure. All right.

[Jason Moore]

David and Joku, he's our next big differentiator.

[Andy Holloway]

Mike has him at 8. He's 8 on our list. And then Jason has him at 5.

[Mike Wright]

I get to be measured this time I met 11.

[Jason Moore]

Why do you hate David and Joku?

[Mike Wright]

I don't blame andy's rank of 11 at all. I think your rank of five stinks.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, here, here's the thing. The burden of proof I believe on those that like David and Joku should be on the one having him at five. Because last year he finished as the number nine tight end. He was the 17th most consistent. He's never had a real dominant game in the NFL at all, ever. Even last season. That's the thing that bothered me the most about believing in David and Joku. The athletic freak. Incredible touchdown celebrations, Great quarterback.

[Mike Wright]

Baker really should throw all touchdowns to David and Joker.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, I. For entertainment purposes. I love.

[Jason Moore]

Yes. Pretty sure Odell is going to have some good Jason celebration last season.

[Andy Holloway]

A season in which the Cleveland Browns did not have Odell Beckham Jr. That's correct. There were four double digit games out of 16 that David and Joku put up. It's not enough for me.

[Jason Moore]

I agree that it is not enough for anyone. Last year when you had that, you were not happy. But again, we're projecting this next year. We're projecting the year three for David and Joker.

[Mike Wright]

I would like to project last year's stats.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm going to go with 56 for 639 and four.

[Jason Moore]

That is a really solid projection for last year's stats.

[Andy Holloway]

88 targets. Did you project his targets to increase this season?

[Jason Moore]

Barely. I projected him up to 90 targets. So only two more targets is not like a huge. I think he's going to take over, obviously, with Odell coming in. But if you look at even just his catch percentage, right. Comes into the league, he's catching 53% of his balls last year, 63%. Usually a tight end that's used the way that Njoku is used with, you know, a really hyper accurate quarterback like Baker Mayfield. He should be catching 68, 69% of those targets.

[Andy Holloway]

Where do you have Baker?

[Jason Moore]

I have Baker. Surprisingly high. I have not.

[Andy Holloway]

Not surprisingly. I'm asking the question accordingly. Hi. Because I'm asking the question because if you have, you know, targets, Beckham, Jarvis, they'll receive more targets than in joku. Correct.

[Jason Moore]

100%. I've got them both. Significantly more. 151 and 115 targets.

[Andy Holloway]

You're laughing.

[Jason Moore]

I'm laughing because when I look at my ranking of Baker, it doesn't stand yet. I have only finished. I've only finished stating about a quarter of the league. So, you know, where is he right now in my rankings? He's number two. So that's really high. But I have not ranked.

[Andy Holloway]

He's ranked a third of the league.

[Mike Wright]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

But I do have him ahead of Jameis Winston, Kyler Murray, Matt Ryan.

[Andy Holloway]

I have him more. I think he's going to end up in my rankings between 10 and 12.

[Jason Moore]

I know, Mike, when you finished yours, you were surprised how low he was.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, I'm not done either. But he's trending more to that, that 9 to 12 range, which I, I was ready, man. I, I was ready to unleash Baker Mayfield as a top five quarterback, but it's just not working out that way.

[Andy Holloway]

If you're wrong, why are you wrong?

[Jason Moore]

If I'm wrong, the reason I'm wrong is because he does not touch. He does not catch enough touchdowns because he's not a volume receiver. He's not a tight end. Here's the thing.

[Andy Holloway]

He had four last.

[Jason Moore]

I've got him at five. Right. And you guys have him at 11. The difference between the number four. Five tight end and the number 11 tight end going in, as far as projections go, is irrelevant. I mean, it's, it's, it's a handful of points. It's so close together, this grouping of tight ends, where it's like, if one guy gets one more touchdown, he's going to go from the back of this list to the front of this list.

[Andy Holloway]

When you get to the bottom of the tight ends, a lot of times you are talking about that I do have this next player ahead of him, Jared Cook. Mike, you got him at 6, I got him at 7, Jason at 11. Last year he was the only show in town in Oakland. The tight end five. He's now on the New Orleans Saints. Drew Brees gets to throw him the football. The Saints since Jimmy Graham left have been the inverse of the whole Bruce Arians doesn't throw to the tight end argument that we're trying to say doesn't really exist. Once Jimmy Graham left the target share to the tight end because you didn't have the most athletic freak in the league, it has declined now last year, 17.4% to the tight end position. Jared Cook comes in after a 68 for 896 and six season. I like him a lot and I like him a lot because the Saints didn't do anything again in the draft. They have Treekwon Smith and Ted Ginn, both guys I don't consider high volume receivers. They have Michael Thomas who soaks up targets all over the field. Jared Cook, if you told me right now what. Let me ask you this question, Mike. What are the odds that Jared Cook has the second most reception? Okay. I'm not counting Alvin Camara. Alvin Camara is the second most sure.

[Mike Wright]

Okay.

[Andy Holloway]

But out, you know, of the past catchers running routes is Cook, who you have projected at number three behind Camara and Michael Thomas.

[Mike Wright]

It's not outside of the realm of possibility. The point I was going to hit on was people are talking about the Saints didn't add anybody. They added Jared Cook. And look, I don't love Jared Cook, but I really like his situation. He's on one of the best offenses in football now and he at least has some juice. I mean, coming off almost 900 yards, he could.

[Andy Holloway]

Brooks, can you give me an age check Jon Jared Cook?

[Jason Moore]

52.

[Mike Wright]

32. 32.

[Jason Moore]

I'm guessing, but I'm right.

[Andy Holloway]

You're guessing, but you're correct.

[Jason Moore]

That is correct. But what's his age? Brooks? Yeah, it's 32.

[Mike Wright]

Boom. It would not be shocking to see a near identical stat line at the end of the season of nearly 70 receptions, 900 yards and six touchdowns. That would not surprise me at all.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I would still be surprised if he gets up near 900 yards, but it's not with. It's not outside the realm of possibility. I think we got a lot. We've been really excited in the past. Benjamin Watson and you know, whoever comes in, in the tight end is like, oh, this he's going to take that Jimmy Graham spot, and it hasn't really been there.

[Andy Holloway]

We did not make that argument, by the way. Neither of us. Please don't bring that into. Into the fold. I do not want to say he's the next Jimmy Graham. Not any. Any stretch of the.

[Mike Wright]

Well, he's the next Jimmy Graham if, like, you're talking about Jimmy Graham.

[Jason Moore]

Right.

[Andy Holloway]

Right Now I have 55 receptions.

[Jason Moore]

How many.

[Andy Holloway]

700 yards, six touchdowns. That's all it takes to be number nine.

[Jason Moore]

And I don't think it's fair to say they didn't bring anybody in this off season outside of Jared Cook, because Adam Humphries, who used to be pronounced with an umphries, he moved on to Tennessee. I think that kind of took the umph out.

[Mike Wright]

It did. It's a little Jordan Mat frees.

[Jason Moore]

Lil Jordan Humphries for the Saints. Oh, look, that's pronounced with an umphries.

[Mike Wright]

It's pronounced with an undrafted. Oh.

[Andy Holloway]

All right, Vance, dance time. Number 10, Vance McDonald. I love that Mike's so excited. We all have him at 9. He ends up 10 on our consensus rating.

[Mike Wright]

I'm just very excited that as I've been on the dance floor, I have been shirtless on this dance floor for quite some time, doing my best moves, and I've been alone. I've been alone on this show, and.

[Andy Holloway]

Alone for a good reason. Mike, you've been alone because now it's time to care. Before, it wasn't time to care.

[Mike Wright]

That's fine. While you guys come out there, you're probably gonna, like, pull a hamstring or something because you're not warmed up. I got a nice flop sweat going on from all the Vance dancing I've been doing.

[Andy Holloway]

Vance McDonald is your number nine tight end?

[Jason Moore]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

Do you have them projected for the season?

[Mike Wright]

Not yet.

[Andy Holloway]

I do.

[Mike Wright]

At number nine, I do.

[Andy Holloway]

You don't know how many receptions he has. He's actually very close to Cook.

[Mike Wright]

Everyone 55.

[Andy Holloway]

55. 705 last year, 50 catches, 610 yards, four touchdowns. You know, you look at the departure. Lev Bell gone. Antonio Brown gone.

[Mike Wright]

Jesse James is gone.

[Andy Holloway]

Jesse James gone. Vance is the guy. So do they run the offense? Do they increase his target volume? Or do you look for guys like James Washington and DeAndre Johnson?

[Mike Wright]

I think Vance just naturally.

[Andy Holloway]

Ryan Switzer, who wasn't there at the beginning of last year, but it was at the end. Does he have top five upset?

[Jason Moore]

Yes. Oh, yeah.

[Mike Wright]

I think he does. I was going to say no.

[Jason Moore]

No. So here's.

[Andy Holloway]

Which is the opposite of yes.

[Jason Moore]

It's kind of like I was saying just a minute ago to be top five at tight end. If you're talking four and five, those two positions, it's a.

[Andy Holloway]

It's Jared Cook did do it.

[Jason Moore]

It's who caught the most touchdowns. And I think, you know, if you're taking Antonio Brown all his touchdowns away, this is a guy who can break away, have long touchdowns in an offense that usually scores a lot. So Vance McDonald has that potential. This would be the type of guy. So fantasy football calculator's got him going at the 712, almost eighth round. So they're there. You're, you know, what are you.

[Andy Holloway]

Probably not. I would do that.

[Mike Wright]

But if you're in on the top five upside, then I'm okay with that.

[Jason Moore]

Price. Yeah, I mean I'm going to be on the clock. I'm going to say do I want to take the shot at Vance McDonald here the top tight ends are gone or do I want to take Emmanuel Sanders? Maybe he gets healthy but I would rather try to fill a role where I go. I'm confident that he even. Even if he's not great and just unbelievable next year he takes a step up from where he was last year because of the departure of the targets that have left. Specifically Jesse James.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, it's definitely interesting. Mike may be dancing all season long. Maybe Jason will be.

[Jason Moore]

I'll take my Vance dance.

[Mike Wright]

I will be.

[Andy Holloway]

Would you do the Vance dance with Mike?

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I'm securing myself.

[Mike Wright]

You can do it. You can definitely do a two man, two man van stance.

[Jason Moore]

No room for a third though, right?

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, he's on my dynasty.

[Mike Wright]

I was just gonna say that the dance will have a little bit of remorse because I had to trade.

[Andy Holloway]

You'll be dancing but then all my points will be going up. Kelsey Ertz, Kittle, Howard Ingram, Henry Ebron, injoku, Cook and McDonald. Vance McDonald. I do want to get into the mailbag. You got time for a couple questions? Mike, you got them pipes ready?

[Mike Wright]

Yep.

[Jason Moore]

Mailbag.

[Andy Holloway]

Very nice, Very nice. You got a question? Go to the website the fantasy footballers dot com. Click the submit a question button. You can also leave us a voicemail. 302464 TFFB. Keep them brief and to the point and we will put them on the show. Brian in Charlotte, North Carolina. So my redraft league, if you win the championship and he did.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, congratulations.

[Andy Holloway]

You get to choose what spot you pick in the draft order for the following year. Everyone else draws out of a hat. We do a snake draft where Should I draft this year? I tend to think number one overall. Do you guys agree? What do you think? Standard league. 10 man. Snake.

[Mike Wright]

Standard.

[Andy Holloway]

Standard league.

[Mike Wright]

So generally speaking, the draft spot I like is the furthest I can get in the first round while still getting what I consider to be an elite running back. Now, maybe it's not the absolute top tier like Saquon or Zeke, but BARKLEY, Elliott, Camara, McCaffrey, Gordon, I'm very, very comfortable having those guys as the first player off the board to be the foundation of my team. I mean, Todd Gurley is probably there for me, which would be 6 in.

[Andy Holloway]

A 10 team league. Do you change your thoughts at all with maybe not wanting to drop as far down because you turn around quicker?

[Mike Wright]

No way, man. I want to be close to that turn. I'm getting me some of that Zeus. That Travis Kelce is my second pick.

[Andy Holloway]

Some of that sweet Zeus, Travis kelsey.

[Mike Wright]

And a 10 teamer.

[Andy Holloway]

Good night.

[Mike Wright]

I love it.

[Andy Holloway]

Any thoughts on that? Jay, where would you want his girl?

[Mike Wright]

Okay, so I know he's on your Dynasty team, Jason, so you have. The endowment effect is happening.

[Jason Moore]

I wish, I wish it was happening, man. I am not, I am not bullish right now.

[Andy Holloway]

He's on your super team though.

[Jason Moore]

No, I do not have a super team. This is just a regular team that won the championship.

[Mike Wright]

Is he in your. Is that five that I listed? Is it six with Todd Gurley for you?

[Jason Moore]

No.

[Mike Wright]

Okay.

[Jason Moore]

No, it's not. And that sucks.

[Andy Holloway]

I didn't realize how much I liked Alvin Camara until I started climbing through.

[Jason Moore]

The stats in a standard league. A lot of the guys that you know, the Camara, McCaffrey and Saquon, I mean, look, every reception they're gaining yards and getting a lot. But those guys are bumped so much higher in our minds because of their receptions. I mean, I would really want to grab Zeke here. If Saquon happens to be everybody's one on one, then I would grab the two and you know, I want, I want Zeke.

[Mike Wright]

Okay.

[Andy Holloway]

All right, how about this? Jake and Buffalo. Better keeper Devonte Adams in the second round or Joe Mixon in the third. PPR league.

[Mike Wright]

Oof.

[Jason Moore]

Devonte Adams in the second or.

[Mike Wright]

Or Mixon in the third. It is a PPR league.

[Jason Moore]

It's mixing.

[Mike Wright]

The better value is. Yeah, I guess it's mixing.

[Andy Holloway]

I'll take Devontae in the second round.

[Jason Moore]

Really?

[Andy Holloway]

I will. Full ppr. Most guaranteed safe. Safest wide receiver.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, I think he is safer than mixing.

[Andy Holloway]

I think I will go that way. I think I Will go that way. Adam in Quebec was explaining to Bonjour. Yeah, thank you.

[Mike Wright]

Very nice.

[Andy Holloway]

Was explaining the draft to my French girlfriend, and she was like, calamari. And I was like, no.

[Mike Wright]

Kyler Murray new nickname.

[Andy Holloway]

Is that a new nickname? Calamari?

[Jason Moore]

No, no.

[Andy Holloway]

Do you guys like calamari? I love calamari, but I like some calamari.

[Jason Moore]

I was just going to say all calamari is not.

[Andy Holloway]

I love all Kyler Murray.

[Jason Moore]

Yes, Calamari. Great. Calamari can be great. Can be rubbery and terrible. If I mean, only get calamari to good place.

[Andy Holloway]

I agree with you. I'm guessing Mike does not calamari because he doesn't eat fish and, well, ocean things.

[Mike Wright]

The things that mean we've been changing. You've seen that I'm in on that sashimi life.

[Andy Holloway]

That's true.

[Mike Wright]

So it's possible that I need to reevaluate my calamari takes. Previously, they were very anti.

[Andy Holloway]

What about your Kyler Murray takes?

[Mike Wright]

My Kyler? I'm very pro. Kyler Murray.

[Andy Holloway]

Your stats bearing out that way.

[Mike Wright]

Brad Evans just tweeted out the. The prop bets on Kyler Murray on the over.

[Andy Holloway]

The over, under.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, my goodness. The. The yard.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, let me. Let me try.

[Andy Holloway]

Over, under yardage.

[Jason Moore]

I saw something.

[Mike Wright]

I'm going to try and you're not.

[Andy Holloway]

Going to say four.

[Jason Moore]

No, four yards. No, I would take over.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm saying you're not going to say 4,000 yards.

[Jason Moore]

I think it was like 3,100 yards and I would take the over.

[Andy Holloway]

That makes so much more sense with my rankings compared to your guys. I believe Kyler's going to be in. Look, it's hard.

[Mike Wright]

Baker went out and here it goes. Over, under.

[Andy Holloway]

Let's do it right here.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. Over.

[Jason Moore]

Under.

[Mike Wright]

475 rushing yards.

[Jason Moore]

I'm going to pull up my stats.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I am, too. So over, under, over, under.475. I'll take the over. Just barely.

[Jason Moore]

I've got the over by 100.

[Andy Holloway]

Whatever you say. Jason's got the over.

[Mike Wright]

3,100 passing yards.

[Andy Holloway]

I'll take the over.

[Mike Wright]

17 and a half passing touchdowns.

[Jason Moore]

Over.

[Andy Holloway]

I'll take the over.

[Mike Wright]

That's what I said as well. So apparently we are very in on.

[Jason Moore]

Here's the truth.

[Andy Holloway]

I guess we are.

[Jason Moore]

I would not take the over on the rushing yards and I would not take the over on the passing touchdowns either. As far as, like, confidence level to make a bet. The over on the passing yardage, I would take for sure.

[Mike Wright]

I would. If I were in Vegas. I would be parlaying all three of these right now.

[Andy Holloway]

Would you be wearing your cardinal shirt while you did it?

[Mike Wright]

No, you can't do that.

[Jason Moore]

You got to fight it.

[Mike Wright]

They try and charge you extra.

[Andy Holloway]

Uh huh.

[Mike Wright]

They try and bump him up, right.

[Jason Moore]

When he's done making the bet, he takes off his black overshirt, says, I'm a Cardinals fan. You never saw it coming.

[Mike Wright]

They said, wait, you took the over? Yeah. Surprised he definitely didn't see that coming.

[Andy Holloway]

All right, let's move on. Pristine deal of the day. All right, pristine auction.com we bring you a deal of the day every single episode. And right now, see somebody got Deandre Hopkins assigned Texans jersey yesterday. $56 at pristineauction.com check it out.

[Mike Wright]

Right now is the time to be in on Pristine Auction because these deals are coming in absolutely fast and furious. They got hundreds of new things up there every day. I have my office is decked out to the max.

[Andy Holloway]

That's a good deal. That's a good deal. All right, thanks for tuning in. Thanks for listening. Come back on Thursday.

[Mike Wright]

We will see you then. Goodbye.

[Andy Holloway]

Goodbye.

[Jason Moore]

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy footballers podcast. Join our fantasy football community on jointhefoot.com and follow us on TwitterFFballers.

[Mike Wright]

In Foot Clan want to remind you about Leesa Mattress. Thank you for sponsoring the show. They know how important rest is to getting a better life. They have their most popular multi layer foam mattress made with premium F for cooling, contouring, pressure, relieving support. So do not miss out. Live healthier, live happier by resting deeper. Order today and get 15% off your purchase for a limited time at Lisa.com Footballers use the promo code Footballers that is Lisa L E E S A.com Footballers code is Footballers.