Explain Yourself! Rankings Debates & Tar Pits - Fantasy Football Podcast

Summary

Fantasy Footballers Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Explain Yourself! Rankings Debates & Tar Pits
Release Date: May 19, 2020
Hosts: Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike "The Fantasy Hitman" Wright

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of the Fantasy Footballers podcast, the expert trio—Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike Wright—delve into their inaugural fantasy football rankings. Titled "Explain Yourself! Rankings Debates & Tar Pits," the episode is packed with in-depth analyses, spirited debates, and insightful discussions aimed at helping listeners dominate their fantasy leagues. The hosts navigate through their differing opinions on player rankings, providing substantial reasoning backed by statistics and personal perspectives.

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Difficult Teams to Project

One of the initial discussions revolves around the most challenging NFL teams to forecast for the 2020 fantasy football season. Each host selects a team they find particularly difficult to project, citing various factors that contribute to their uncertainty.

• Andy Holloway:
  "The Chargers present a myriad of different things, both good and bad. Their improved offensive line and quarterback situation, especially with the transition from Philip Rivers to Justin Herbert, make them tough to project."
  (04:12)

• Mike Wright:
  "The Rams are a complete mystery across the entire team. Except we know Jared Goff is the quarterback, the running back position is a mess, making it hard to predict Melvin Gordon's performance reliably."
  (06:23)

• Jason Moore:
  "The Patriots confuse me the most. With Jimmy Garoppolo as quarterback, I'm not excited about their offensive prospects, especially since I don't have any Patriots players above 28 at their positions in my rankings."
  (02:22)

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News and Updates

The hosts touch upon recent NFL developments that impact their fantasy projections.

• James Conner's Role with the Steelers:
  Mike Tomlin, the Steelers' head coach, declared James Conner as a "featured guy and a proven runner when healthy," sparking debates on his reliability and workload.
  (10:34)

• Big Ben Roethlisberger's Comeback:
  The return of Ben Roethlisberger comes with excitement and skepticism, especially regarding his recent appearance and potential performance shifts.
  (13:16)

• Todd Gurley's Health with the Falcons:
  Concerns about Todd Gurley's injury status linger, affecting his fantasy value and the Falcons' offensive strategies.
  (14:19)

---

Rankings Debates

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to debating the hosts' rankings of key players. Each host presents their position, often leading to spirited disagreements.

1. DeAndre Hopkins

• Jason Moore's Stance:
  "DeAndre Hopkins stands at number five in my rankings, reflecting his elite status as a wide receiver and his crucial role in Arizona's offense."
  (22:23)

• Mike Wright's Argument:
  "I have Hopkins at 15 because, despite his talent, the team's offensive setup doesn't allow him to accumulate the high target volume necessary to maintain his elite status."
  (23:08)

• Notable Quote:
  "You don't see DeAndre Hopkins immediately pulling another 30% target share in a transitioning offense." – Mike Wright
  (25:09)

2. JuJu Smith-Schuster

• Jason Moore's Position:
  "I rank JuJu Smith-Schuster at 13, believing that while he has the potential for big games, consistency remains a concern due to past performances."
  (30:02)

• Andy Holloway's Perspective:
  "I have JuJu at 29, arguing that without consistent quarterback play and offensive support, his fantasy value isn't as high as his past performance suggests."
  (30:46)

• Notable Quote:
  "He's one of those players that could either take a massive leap or stagnate based on the team's offensive dynamics." – Jason Moore
  (35:45)

3. Allen Robinson

• Jason Moore's Ranking:
  "Allen Robinson is placed at 20 in my rankings, reflecting his reliability despite the Bears' inconsistent quarterback play."
  (36:49)

• Andy Holloway's Counter:
  "I rank Robinson higher, at number 10, emphasizing his talent and the potential resurgence with improved quarterback play."
  (37:16)

• Notable Quote:
  "Alan Robinson has consistently proven to be a solid wide receiver, even with varying quarterback support." – Andy Holloway
  (38:16)

4. Melvin Gordon

• Jason Moore's View:
  "I ranked Melvin Gordon at 15, considering his role in Denver's backfield and potential for touchdown opportunities."
  (43:05)

• Mike Wright's Argument:
  "Gordon is at 24 in my rankings due to the presence of other running backs like Royce Freeman and Philip Lindsay, which could limit his carries and overall fantasy output."
  (44:22)

• Notable Quote:
  "Melvin Gordon is a massive injury risk, and his efficiency has been questionable over the past seasons." – Mike Wright
  (44:22)

5. DeVonta "Deebo" Samuel

• Jason Moore's Position:
  "I have Deebo at 14, recognizing his explosive potential in a dynamic offense that relies on his versatility."
  (49:35)

• Andy Holloway's Counterpoint:
  "Deebo is ranked lower at 29 because the offense's unpredictability and reliance on play-action passing make his consistent target volume uncertain."
  (50:05)

• Notable Quote:
  "Deebo is an athletic freak with the ability to dominate big plays, making him a valuable asset despite offensive inconsistencies." – Jason Moore
  (52:40)

6. Joni Smith

• Jason Moore's Rating:
  "Joni Smith is ranked at 19, considering his athleticism but questioning his consistency and integration into the offense."
  (55:00)

• Andy Holloway's Perspective:
  "I place Joni Smith higher at number 7, highlighting his physical gifts and the opportunity to take on a larger role as the primary tight end."
  (56:23)

• Notable Quote:
  "Jonus has the physical attributes to be a breakout candidate, especially with his involvement in both the passing and running games." – Andy Holloway
  (56:23)

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Conclusions and Final Thoughts

The episode underscores the complexity of fantasy football rankings, emphasizing that different analytical approaches and personal biases can lead to varying player evaluations. The hosts agree that while statistics provide a foundation, understanding team dynamics, player roles, and potential changes in the offseason are crucial for accurate projections.

• Jason Moore:
  "There are more variables in play for Hopkins than for other wide receivers, making it a tough call."
  (29:41)

• Andy Holloway:
  "Players like Joni Smith have the physical gifts and opportunity to become breakout stars, which justifies higher rankings."
  (56:23)

• Mike Wright:
  "Understanding the competition within teams, such as running backs sharing carries, is essential for realistic player projections."
  (44:22)

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Mike Wright [04:12]: "The Chargers present a myriad of different things, both good and bad. Their improved offensive line and quarterback situation, especially with the transition from Philip Rivers to Justin Herbert, make them tough to project."

• Jason Moore [22:23]: "DeAndre Hopkins stands at number five in my rankings, reflecting his elite status as a wide receiver and his crucial role in Arizona's offense."

• Mike Wright [23:08]: "I have Hopkins at 15 because, despite his talent, the team's offensive setup doesn't allow him to accumulate the high target volume necessary to maintain his elite status."

• Andy Holloway [56:23]: "Joni Smith has the physical attributes to be a breakout candidate, especially with his involvement in both the passing and running games."

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Final Remarks

The Fantasy Footballers podcast episode offers a comprehensive look into the nuanced world of fantasy football rankings. By dissecting each player's potential and the factors influencing their performance, the hosts provide listeners with valuable insights to make informed decisions for their fantasy teams. The spirited debates and diverse perspectives exemplify the dynamic nature of fantasy football, ensuring that every listener gains a deeper understanding of the game.

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Join the Conversation:
For more insights and to engage with the Fantasy Footballers community, visit jointhefoot.com and follow them on Twitter @FFBallers.

Transcript

[Mike Wright]

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[Andy Holloway]

Foreignasy Footballers Podcast with your hosts, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore and Mike Wright.

[Jason Moore]

Welcome in.

[Unknown]

Ferocious.

[Jason Moore]

I'm one with nature, Mike.

[Unknown]

I mean that was a. It's a big jump there going from best friend of the show, Davey A right into that, that growl, that warrior scream.

[Jason Moore]

Welcome into the show the Fantasy Footballers. Back with you, Mike Wright, Jason Moore, andy Holloway. Tuesday, May 19 Episode 880 we give episode numbers now. I chose to. You went to Spitballers here and there, here and there. We give them.

[Andy Holloway]

When you started saying the number and you're like 800 and I just thought you were making a number up, you know, 8 billion. That's a legit number.

[Jason Moore]

That's probably the right number. 8.

[Unknown]

Are we going to hit a thousand this year or like, who's done the math on this?

[Jason Moore]

It's having a hard time.

[Andy Holloway]

I am confident based on math that we will hit it this year.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, it's going to be one at a time though. Then we'll get there.

[Unknown]

That's true.

[Jason Moore]

We have a very fun episode today. Some say the best. It's explain yourself. We're looking at our inaugural rankings, some of the debates that we've had internally, some of the kind of standout rankings from each of our lists. So we're gonna have an opportunity to explain ourselves and maybe, maybe persuade. I mean that's part of what we're trying to do. We're trying to persuade you. I'm trying to persuade these two gentlemen and vice versa. So it's going to be a lot.

[Andy Holloway]

Before when you explain yourself.

[Unknown]

Oh, you got splained.

[Jason Moore]

Not with Carry on though. Did we not? I told Carry On.

[Unknown]

I think you've got him this year.

[Jason Moore]

Maybe just you wait@the FF Ballers on Twitter. YouTube.com the fantasy footballer subscribe. Click the bell. Follow us wherever, wherever the social Media platforms are. We're everywhere and appreciate Everybody. [e-mail] we just posted a new update over there about things going on. Very exciting time. Despite all of the kind of tumult around us, we have a lot of great things planned for 2020. Planning on upgrading the website. We've got the Ultimate Draft kit launching on June 1, which is right around the corner. So you can check that out atultimatedraftkit.com but it's going to be a fun year. All right, quick question of the day. Now that you've been through all 32 teams, what was the toughest team for you to stat out to Predict project for 2020?

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I'll hop in here. First for me, it's the Chargers. You have a myriad of different things, both good and bad, happening for this team. I think their offensive line has been majorly improved. I think their quarterback situation, despite my, you know, bad words towards Philip Rivers on a personal level for what he did to my fantasy team.

[Jason Moore]

Because you guys are very. I mean, it's back and forth, back and forth. You guys.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, me and Phil, we go back and forth. He likes to talk trash. I like to talk trash. He knows that. But, you know, the interceptions for my fancy team were. I wasn't having that.

[Jason Moore]

But the reality is they were so good for the show. Just.

[Andy Holloway]

He's a. Yeah, he's a borderline hall of Famer and he's a guy that checks down to the running back. So when you look at Justin Herbert coming in, a prospect I wasn't personally too high on, is he going to start season? Is he not? Tyrod, who doesn't historically throw the ball to the running back, but the improved offensive line, the great schedule to start the year, there's so many different variables that you can't really. There's no sure way to predict them the way that there are with, you know, teams that have more congruency. And so to me, that was one of the more difficult teams to set out. I had to essentially guess how many games I think Tyrod will start. I split the season. I didn't have Herbert starting. And then, you know, divvy up the stats according to having, you know, two thirds of the year with a rookie and a third of the year with Tyrod. And it was just difficult because there's a lot of good weapons there. Echler, Keenan Allen, Hunter, Henry, Mike Williams. Just some really important fantasy options that at the end of the day in my rankings, kind of suck.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, they're a tough team to start. Out Keenan Allen I had a hard time with. I mean, we've seen elite wide receivers struggle with transitioning at the quarterback position. And you have to kind of make a determination whether you're buying into that or whether you think one of those other guys is going to be able to get him the ball. So they're difficult. No doubt. Mike, who do you have as your most difficult team to stat out?

[Unknown]

I went with the Rams. They are a complete mystery to me just across the entire team, except we know Jared Goff will be the quarterback. Which Jared Goff will we see last year's or two years ago where he looked like he was improving and becoming an actual like a top 12 fantasy guy. The running back position. Oh boy, that thing is. That thing is a mess. But it's also, you feel like the kid where, you know, back when you had your dino set, where it's just, it's tar. It's just, it's a tar pit. But you know, if once you start pulling things out, you're gonna have some dinosaur bones, you're gonna put them together and you got an awesome new toy. Like we could see Cam Acres emerge and be an absolute fantasy beast.

[Jason Moore]

You play with play with a lot of. Lot of tar.

[Unknown]

As a kid, you never had the dino sets.

[Andy Holloway]

No. Well, I saw Andy's face was right with me and we did not play with the tar. But I get the analogy. Right. The offensive line is the tar pit.

[Unknown]

Look, you guys missed out because I was super into science.

[Jason Moore]

I was playing with tar as a kid.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I wasn't playing with Joe's. I didn't have those. I had dinosaur kits where I was learning about pterodactyl.

[Jason Moore]

No. And it serves you at times like this. Yeah, you need a real solid.

[Unknown]

You have the problem with the running back position, then you have the problem with the wide receiver position. Slash tight ends of the wide receiver for the Rams. It's been an excellent position. Cooper Cup, Robert woods should be primed to be absolute fantasy studs with. With Brandon Cooks being shipped out of town like they should easily be two top 22 top 15 wide receivers for fantasy as they have been in the past. But then we saw this five game stretch where the Rams completely renovated their offense. They went to more of a 12 personnel where the tight end was featured. So then you have the problems with Tyler Higby is. Can Higbee keep that going? Because if he does, he's like a top three tight end. Or does he vanish back to what he has been for four years? The Rams are the outcomes for each individual position is so bipolar. For, for the Rams, I.

[Andy Holloway]

They're.

[Unknown]

They. So they are my most difficult team to actually stat out. Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

And I went with the Patriots because not only do they confuse me, but I don't, I don't want anybody. I don't have any patriot above 28 at their position, and that is the quarterback who's 28th at his position. I don't have any. But even if I see one of these guys drop to me, obviously Edelman would be the kind of one player that you could look at and say, well, okay, I'll get production. But he has the age variable. It's a defensive team. I'm just not excited. I wasn't. I didn't enjoy the process and I'm not excited about anybody there. Last year you came in with hopes for Nikhil Harry. Who knows what he'll be with Stidham. I don't find myself too excited with New England.

[Unknown]

It's fair. It's fair. I mean, except people are going to be real mad when Jared Stidham is winning more games than Tom Brady. Real, real mad.

[Jason Moore]

Who's. Whose people?

[Unknown]

The public? Twitter.

[Jason Moore]

Is that an effect, you're saying? You're putting that on the record? You think he's on it?

[Andy Holloway]

Mike's just throwing a hand grenade out there and walking away trying to be like, hey, you know, Stidham is going to win more games with Brady.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, Mike can have that one. That's fine because. No, no, he won't. I don't think so. I think this is going to be a very interesting year. They might, they might still be able to win because of that defense and game management. But it'll be a battle of, you know, is this Brady? Is this Belichick? I'm. I don't think that Jarrett Stidham is going to get it done personally. But let's talk some news.

[Andy Holloway]

News and notes from around the league.

[Jason Moore]

Nothing that I would, you know, say is breaking crucial news to talk about, but some of the more off season rumor y stuff, I'd rather get your reaction than not. So first you had. Let's go here. Mike Tomlin, Steelers head coach, comes out, says James Conner is, quote, a featured guy and a proven runner when healthy. Connor's another player that I think is difficult to project because we've seen the struggles with health, but we've seen him be exactly that when he's healthy, a featured guy. You look at this team, you look at Mike Tomlin, he prefers. He also Prefers a featured guy. Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Last year, beat reporters were coming out and saying that they believed it was going to be a timeshare. And I feel like this is something that happens pretty much every year. Post Love Bell is like, I think it's not going to be the same, but it hasn't been until the hand was completely forced due to injury. And so, you know, this year, once again, people are saying, I think Benny Snell is going to share time with James Conner. I, for the first time when I was standing out the Steelers, I, I gave more work to that running back too. But, you know, he. Having Tomlin come out and say that and knowing his history, it is, you know, if, if Connor were just healthy for the whole season, I can't imagine that he would not use him the way that he's used every, you know, every lead back he's had on the roster.

[Jason Moore]

Well, yeah, and the thing is, is when you stat him out, you have to do what you did. Unless you are going to 100% factor, you know, look at Connor and say he's going to be healthy throughout the year because even if he is the Featured guy for 10 of the 16 games, the stats are going to bear out what you're saying.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

So this didn't really change my opinion. I mean, Connor is sitting there and has been sitting there as this potential value because you're betting on a, you know, you could be betting on a healthier season and a healthier season for Connor. You should at least get another year out of him as a feature guy. Right?

[Unknown]

Yeah, I 100% believe that. And you just like, where is he? I guess we can look it up, but like, you don't find three down running backs in the area that James Conner is currently being drafted.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, they. It'll be interesting in general. And we'll talk more about Pittsburgh because on Explain Yourself today, we'll be talking about juju so we can debate some of the optimism surrounding Big Ben's return. Big Ben put a big tweet out there today.

[Unknown]

He got that fresh haircut because I.

[Jason Moore]

Guess he wasn't gonna cut his hair. You think I'm gonna explain myself because Big Ben cut his hair?

[Andy Holloway]

Well, that's what I believe. I believe Big Ben put that video out to get you to explain yourself.

[Unknown]

Well, here's what we at least know now is that picture that came out a couple weeks ago that we were all like, what happened to Big Ben Roethlisberger during quarantine? That was the answer. Like he apparently had said, I will. I'm not going to shave my beard. I'm not going to cut my hair until I can really throw a football again. And now he's all cleaned up and you're like, oh, Ben's still under there. Like, he's back.

[Jason Moore]

Todd Gurley. Let's talk about him. Falcon, the Falcons offensive coordinator, Dirt cutter.

[Unknown]

Then that way. Hold on. I would just, I want to clarify. Yeah, he's Falcons offensive coordinator, Dirt cutter. As, as in the offensive coordinator for the team that Todd Gurley is currently under contract with.

[Jason Moore]

Yes. That just signed him, Mike.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Like, they have him on the team. Okay.

[Jason Moore]

Yep. I'm just making sure he said, quote, the main question is that no one seems to know is what is his health status?

[Andy Holloway]

Well, okay, this is the quarantine world, right? I mean, it's harder. They're not seeing each other. They're not in the facilities with one another. Obviously, I believe he passed his physical. So, you know, the, you know, there is a baseline of health. But when the, when the coaches are coming out saying that, that's a known worry that they don't have an answer for. You realize that a lot of times, and this is something we see during the draft and we think teams have so much more information than we do.

[Jason Moore]

That's what I was thinking.

[Andy Holloway]

But then you watch and you go, oh, yeah, they're humans that don't know everything about other humans.

[Unknown]

Where's all the secrets?

[Jason Moore]

Well, they certainly. Some of these documentaries you see about the general managers at home, they're saying the same things we are. Who's going to go here? Maybe this guy's going to go there. They don't see, you know, they're following along like we were at home. Here we are with Gurley, and you have to wonder if GMs were backed into a corner saying, well, if I'm going to get him, I got to make him the offer. Now.

[Unknown]

They should have been on that Bleacher Report feed somehow. Those guys had the picks, like five picks in advance.

[Jason Moore]

Well, you got to pay for. That's it. You got to subscribe or something, right? Yeah. I don't know if he's passed the physical yet or not, but there are questions. There's questions about Todd Gurley's health and have been for now, you know, going into year three. So this is why when I, when I was stating out Atlanta, I chose to give a soft projection for Todd Gurley, I think, compared to at least Jason, because I just don't like, I projected him for Fewer carries in Atlanta than I. Than he had last year in Los Angeles. That was more based around the team talking about the guys that they have and, you know, just trying to balance out that offense. But Gurley's a tough call. I don't think he's going to be on many of my teams this year.

[Unknown]

Yeah, he probably won't be on mine either.

[Jason Moore]

The Saint signed Ty Montgomery. I don't care.

[Andy Holloway]

Yep, good for. Good for you, Ty.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah, good for you. It's a good.

[Andy Holloway]

He's happy to go to a team that he says utilizes win a ring.

[Jason Moore]

On that bench than another bench.

[Andy Holloway]

He wants to be utilized as a weapon, not necessarily a running back or a wide receiver. So you go to a coach like Peyton.

[Jason Moore]

All right, how about this hype train moment?

[Unknown]

Oh, yes. This one's going to get going. This thing will be a bullet train before drafts.

[Jason Moore]

I wonder. Frank Wright, head coach of the Indianapolis Colts, said, quote, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a game this season that Naim Hines has 10 catches. Said that. Philip Rivers, we know this, right? He's got the ability to get the ball to the running back. Saw it with Eckler last year. Oh, so many targets for Eckler. And then he said Naim Hines will be very much integrated into the game plan on all three downs.

[Unknown]

That part's weird. He's not.

[Jason Moore]

You didn't need to say that.

[Unknown]

Frank Hines has been great as a pass catching running back. Like he has excelled there for a couple years. Not, not so much the, the rushing part of the running back, but all.

[Andy Holloway]

Right, it's three backs that I hear Marla Mack could be a good value. Jonathan Taylor is going to be awesome. And now Naim Hines is going to have 10 catches in a game. And you know, you worry that there's too much hype around a good team. What should be an improved offense with a great offensive line if all three guys are involved, that's just bad for fantasy. At the end of the day, there won't be a value.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I think we the worry with Stewart or with Taylor? Not Jonathan Stewart. He's not back. The worry with Taylor is just, you know, is year one the year that you're going to get that payoff? Is he going to be a redraft pick worthwhile or not? And so certainly when you hear about one. What did they say? A one. One punch.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

With Mac and Taylor, you got Heinz in there. And it will be difficult. It'll be interesting to watch.

[Unknown]

So Brooksy did pull something up for us. Field Yates had tweeted out Dirt Cutter, talking about Todd Gurley, that as of May 14, he had not taken a physical.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, well, I guess Dirk really doesn't know.

[Jason Moore]

And that would be May. That would be May 13, 2015. He hasn't taken a physical since then. So we haven't had a good update on Gurley in quite some time.

[Andy Holloway]

The thing is, is he. I mean, so I started him out for 16 and the reality is he missed a game. But he finished the season healthy. Right? I mean, he.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

For Todd Gurley, it's not like, it's not like, you know, Eric Ebron, who, or Trey Burton, these guys who's signing to new teams and they're currently injured. This is a guy who left the season healthy.

[Unknown]

Well, because his injury is not a. It's not a bone break. Okay, I'm out. X amount of days. It's a. They have. When I heard the Rams talking about it, they just, they would never know when the neat would flare up and become an issue. He would have weeks where, like, oh, there's, there's the old Todd Gurley that we need for our team and then there's weeks where he, he could barely move the knee. So it's, it's a really tough call for Atlanta. I think he'll play all those games, but how can they really rely on him for 16 games to be a workhorse back? That's the bigger problem.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I don't know if they're going to try to. I think that's what we all have to look at. I don't know if they're going to try to do that.

[Andy Holloway]

Head coach on a hot seat with a one year contract for your running back and garbage behind him says, we're giving it to Todd until that knee blows up. That's what it says to me.

[Unknown]

Before we move into splaining ourselves, want to thank today's sponsor, Manscaped. Look, you got to take care of yourself. You got to take care of that hygiene. And that's why I love using my Manscaped. I feel like a new person. I feel clean. They have excellent technology over at Manscaped. They have released their Lawnmower 3.0. It's a waterproof cordless body trimmer. And because of the ceramic blade and SkinSafe technology, snags are reduced. Like, you're safe. That's what you can know when you're using the Manscaped trademark product. Things are going to be safe in an area that need to be safe. And they've got a bunch of other things like deodorants and things that help you feel fresh. So, guys, you gotta go check out Manscaped. And they got a peak hygiene plan where subscribers can get a new lawnmower trimmer replacement blade refilled, delivered every three months. Like I said, I have it. This is a product that I recommend to all my friends. They ask me like, seriously, Mike, Manscaped. Use it. Yes, yes, I do. I'm glad they're a sponsor on the show. And you can get 20% off and free shipping with the code [e-mail] that's 20% off with free [e-mail]. use the code footballers. I'm quite well, thank you.

[Jason Moore]

No, clearly you are not.

[Mike Wright]

No rational person would do as you have done.

[Andy Holloway]

Explain yourself.

[Jason Moore]

All right, let's kick it off. Time to explain yourself, Mr. Right, we're going to start with DeAndre Hopkins. Now, Mike has, I mean, we've all done the dance. We've all been very.

[Andy Holloway]

Very excited.

[Jason Moore]

Very, very excited.

[Unknown]

What is that voice?

[Andy Holloway]

That was a Borat. That was a Borat reference.

[Unknown]

Oh, okay.

[Jason Moore]

All right, look, practically as a Cardinal fan, thrilling to have DeAndre Hopkins on board. Great for Kyla Murray, you know, breakout season in the cards. But DeAndre Hopkins, Mike, you have him at 15, Jason has him up at five. Right now he's being drafted as the wide receiver three in best ball leagues. There's a lot of excite. As Jason said. I'm kind of, I'm kind of more on your side than Jason is. So I think he's the one that needs to say it.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay, Mike, explain yourself there.

[Unknown]

All right, the first thing I will say is here's What a feature.

[Jason Moore]

15 is low. 15 is low.

[Unknown]

Well, that's what I want to address first off is like in our ultimate draft kit, you can see our actual player by player statistical breakdowns and see their points where a rank or if you're like holy crap, Hopkins at 15, like he's really just a handful of points away from number nine. So like I could, I could give him a 20 yard reception and he'll jump up to nine. But my point still stands that I think he is a lower end wide receiver 1 or a high end wide receiver 2 this year because of the target volume. Like where, what do you do with Kyler Murray? Where last year, I mean he had a great rookie year but threw for 3,700 yards. He threw the ball 542 times. Does he all of a Sudden explode with passing volume. Like, that's kind of weird. But does he jump up like 100 passing attempts? I just don't see that as anywhere in the realm of possibilities for Kyler. And he spreads the ball around like one. It's. You have Hopkins trading teams. That's not always necessarily the best situation right away. But Arizona played on three wide receiver sets. On passing plays. Three wide receivers were out there 39% of the time. Four wide receivers were out there 33% of the time. And what I'm. I'm bringing that up because there's other guys out on the field. This isn't just Arizona running two wide receiver sets. They run a two wide receiver set very, very low compared to everybody else in the NFL. Guys like Demir Bird, Keyshawn Johnson, they're both over. They were both over 40 targets last year because they're on the field and the play and they're getting open in the play. I just don't see DeAndre Hopkins as elite as he is coming in Arizona and immediately pulling another 30% target share. I just. So I don't see that happening.

[Andy Holloway]

I, My, my contention is that he doesn't need a 30% target share. I do 100% think the passing volume will go up for a second year. Kyler Murray, not 100 passing attempts, but it was already rookie year. Kyler Murray threw 50 more passes than DeSean Watson. That was as a rookie. So if he goes up another 50, you're talking about a potential hundred more targets. He doesn't need to have 30%. You look at Kyler in college with CD Lamb, they had the four wide receiver sets. This is spread offense. But when you had a dominant one, he's going to go to him. And you bring up Demir Bird and these guys who are. Those are. Those are our point. That's my point. The competition. DeAndre Hopkins is the clear one here. And you know, Christian Kirk and Larry Fitzgerald will be nice additions on the field, but I think this offense will hum and I think, you know, you should have at least 140 targets going to Hopkins, which is low for Hopkins.

[Unknown]

I have him for 140.

[Andy Holloway]

Really? Yeah.

[Unknown]

This could just be a case of. I have other players that I like. Well, I like a bit more than Hopkins. But it's funny that. It's funny how when you're breaking down statistics, like we can look at the exact same thing, like all those targets for the auxiliary players, you see it one way and I see it the other.

[Jason Moore]

Well, and you didn't Mention Kenyan Drake or Dan Arnold or Isabella in the year two, Hakeem Butler. There are other weapons that they want to use and it's not to take away from Hopkins. But you're not going to have a. You're not going to have a traditional training camp this year. You're not going to have the kind of. Look, I don't know how hard it is to form a mind meld with one of the NFL's best wide receivers, but you will not have that in advance the way you might have had in a normal training camp for Kyler and Hopkins to get on the same page, which is a piece of the puzzle. Right. No matter what.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

You know how good of a wide receiver you are, but it's. It's a situation where Hopkins is traditionally viewed in that top 2, 3, 4, 5 range. So you are making a judgment with the team transition whether or not you buy, hop. Buy into the fact that Hopkins can. Can stay at that level. I have him at nine. That's just where he ended up landing in my rankings. But I do I. Arizona distributes the ball a little bit more than I think they do in Houston.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I think the distribution the way at least we only have one year of Kyler playing, of course, but him and Deshaun Watson, they play very, very differently. And Watson came into the NFL with DeAndre Hopkins as his. That was the safety blanket. That's how he learned the end of that NFL system his entire career, where I don't think Larry is going away as a guy. How many targets do you have, Jason, if you have your Arizona guys pulled up, how many targets do you have going to Larry?

[Andy Holloway]

I've got 99 targets to Larry as well as 114 to Christian Kirk.

[Unknown]

Oh, wow, that's.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, it's more, more for both of those guys than. Than I have, but I could see that. I mean, Kirk last year, 107 and 13 games. Hopkins obviously comes in and demands the majority of. Of that, but they were bad around the goal line. They could not get the ball into the end zone. And that could be the area of efficiency that improves. Hopkins had seven last year. I have him for seven this year.

[Unknown]

Jay, you have, you basically have then I'm assuming like all those ancillary targets, almost all just going to Hopkinson.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, like Andy is forming a Voltron. Andy. Andy, Isabella, Hakeem Butler. Those ancillary pieces are dead in my rankings. I just, you know, I've got Isabella with 13 receptions, Hakeem Butler with 18 there. You know, I Think it's going to be really the three of these guys and Drake taking. Taking the offense forward.

[Unknown]

All right.

[Jason Moore]

All right. Well, it's going to be fun to watch. I hope it means more wins and.

[Unknown]

I think people listening at home can understand. It does not bring me any sort of joy to be talking about DeAndre Hopkins like this.

[Jason Moore]

Well, and the one name that I did bring up that did has transition teams a couple of times and put up huge target numbers was Brandon Marshall. You know, he was an example of one that could do that.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It's not impossible, but if I bet.

[Jason Moore]

On one side, there are more variables in play for Hopkins at the top of the wide receiver ranks than there are other players for me.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, that's fair. But you have seen Hopkins transition not from team to team, but from quarterback.

[Jason Moore]

To quarterback, quarterback to quarterback. Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

And always be great because he's dominant. All right, Mike, I'm going to let you take this next one away because you are the highest and you can, you can give Andy the business.

[Unknown]

Oh. Oh, excellent. I wasn't sure who I to go after because I also have to go after you for somebody.

[Jason Moore]

You always have to go after somebody, Mike. It doesn't, it doesn't really matter, you know.

[Unknown]

All right, so we're talking about a player who is one of four wide receivers to ever post 100 receptions and 1400 yards in a season before turning 23. We are talking about a player who has been a stud. A stud in two out of three years. He lost his quarterback. He lost everything Last year. He was injured himself. But Andrew Holloway has JuJu Smith Schuster at wide receiver, 29. Explain yourself.

[Andy Holloway]

Explain yourself, sir.

[Jason Moore]

Jason has him at 13. Mike has him at 7. Look, first of all, you know, JuJu should be explaining himself to me. Oh, that, that's, that's my contention. I came into last year telling you that I thought juju Smith Schuster would take a step back. That those numbers that he put up with Antonio Brown flanked outside left, Bell in the backfield, a healthy, younger Big Ben. Those were coming down last year, no matter what.

[Unknown]

He was a year younger.

[Jason Moore]

Those, those were coming.

[Unknown]

Who was Big Ben? I'm just saying, like, well, he's two.

[Jason Moore]

Years removed from that season at this point. Sure, okay, but. But you know, I came in last year and I said, look, Juju's one of my picks to regress from where everyone wants him. Last year he was the fifth wide receiver off the board. His ADP was the top of the second round. People were buying the highest point of the Stock, in my opinion, last year. Then he comes out hot, wet, fart of a season. I mean, just bad.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, they had substance and you don't want that.

[Jason Moore]

There was particles and so, but, but, but the kind of the, the broad brush, the sweeping, which clearly you two have both appropriated to your rankings, is when you look at juju bouncing back, is that, you know, he just, he just didn't have a good quarterback. Mind you, last year. When you look at the season, what do we do at the fantasy footballers? We say when you have a variable like that, a variable like that, you want to take a look at the player independent of the quarterback situation. And we put that into our ultimate draft kit. We have Matt Harmon's reception perception. We look at the player, we look at the route tree, we look at, are you winning? Well, juju doesn't win a lot on the outside. He's a great slot wide receiver. But I've got some advanced data for you coming from Matt Harmon from this year's UDK. Last year he fell below the 24th percentile in success rate versus man coverage. That's a third straight year. Under the 24th percentile. Fell below the 12th percentile in success rate versus press coverage for the third straight year. We needed to see him come out and be able to be a number one on the outside and he was able to succeed in the slot because of what Antonio Brown affords you. We might need to look at, and I'm quoting friend of the show, Matt Harmon here, we might have to look at juju in the vein of the Jarvis Landry type. A great, successful potential, high volume, really good player, going to have big games because he can take the ball to the house from, you know, an inside slant. But I don't look at him. He graded out, by the way, 85th of 122 last year at the wide receiver position. His teammate Deontay Johnson was 20 spots ahead of him according to Pro Football Focus. So it wasn't just a quarterback last year. He had a down year overall and he played in 12 of 16 games. So it is a bounce back bet that you're looking at for juju. And because I wasn't in on him as a number one last year, I'm not going to take another year of Big Ben, not established outside weapons and look at juju and say, yeah, you get the, you get the benefit of the doubt. I'm giving you that top five, top six or, sorry, top ten ranking. I'm just not willing to do that. I think he can have big games, but I have him much lower than I think pretty much anybody in the industry because I just don't believe he has what it takes to be a one in the offense.

[Unknown]

And I'll jump in because what I heard what you were saying. So for the third straight year, he fell below certain metrics. So like when he put up 1407, he was below that mark.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, but he was playing slot with Antonio Brown on the outside.

[Unknown]

And honestly, I think the moves that the team has made, they allow juju to go back to where he is most comfortable and that it's fine if all. He is a awesome slot wide receiver. All right? That, that's, that's what he is. He can still put up massive numbers like it. It won't surprise me to see, you know, either James Washington and Deontay Johnson on the outside and then certainly happen in the slot or they have they drafted like a monster of a man in the second round. Chase Claypool here, who. He would be an outside wide receiver. That guy's not going in the slot, certainly with his, certainly with his size. And I'm just. I know we're, I know we're a year removed again from. For Big Ben lost an entire year, but that season you're talking about two years ago, Big Ben led the league in passing yards. Like Big Ben over the last five years averages over 300 passing yards per game. I'm just, I'm. This isn't just a bet on juju for me. It's all. It's a bet that Big Ben can still come in here and get it.

[Andy Holloway]

Done and he's out there throwing NFL passes, getting his beard shaved and who's he throwing it to? Wasn't Deontay Johnson out there with him. It was juju.

[Jason Moore]

Well, if you remember last year too, one of the contentions that people tried to make with juju was this idea that, oh, my goodness, what if the touchdowns go up? Because those yardage is not going to happen. But you got Claypool, you got Ebron, you have different weapons now too. Where, you know, what's Jarvis Landry known for is not for, you know, red zone utility. I'm not saying that juju can't perform, but there are rumors around this is a contract year for juju as well. Is he a part of the future plans for Pittsburgh? Is this going to become Deontay Johnson's team or Claypool or somebody else's? Are they going to pay for a slot receiver? The money that Juju will want at 23 years old.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

And does that change the way they use him in the offense? I don't know the answer to that question. I'm just giving you the math behind what I viewed as anecdotal observations of his game, which is that game breaking type of player. But I don't think he's a one. So we have a pretty big disparity on him.

[Unknown]

Yes, we do.

[Jason Moore]

Alan Robinson, Jason. Alan Robinson, good friend of the show.

[Unknown]

Great friend of the show, great friend of Blake.

[Jason Moore]

Big Al is Big Al Dewey, he hates that. Jason has him down at 20. Mike and I have him on the outside of the wide receiver one range. Mike at 10, I'm at 12. So Jason with him down at 20. Explain yourself.

[Andy Holloway]

Explain yourself. Look, I think this is, this is.

[Jason Moore]

You are explaining yourself.

[Andy Holloway]

This is pretty easy to explain. I think Alan Robinson is a great player. I think he's the one for the Bears. And I think what you had last season is peak. And I'm certainly not saying he can't get back there, but that's not my expectation. Right? I mean, last year he had the fifth most targets in the league with only 118 of those being deemed catchable because you got bad quarterback play. And I don't think the bad quarterback play is going away. Trubisky is still there. And yes, maybe it, maybe it shifts to foals, but does it hurt? Stanley looks good by comparison to Trubisky. Not necessarily like this is not like Foles is here. He's got the best quarterback ever.

[Unknown]

Robinson has never played a single snap with a good quarterback.

[Andy Holloway]

That, that's absolutely in his life. And he's had now two seasons where he's finished great and other seasons where he's, he's, you know, he's been a solid wide receiver or been injured.

[Unknown]

You have 1400 yards and 14 touchdowns. Like no, guys, people just do that every once in a while.

[Andy Holloway]

So.

[Unknown]

Here's an outrageous line, man.

[Andy Holloway]

Here's the. That is an outrageous line back. You're talking back when he was a Jaguar break. And I absolutely, I remember those days long ago. But the reality is this, last year the targets came because of decimation to the receiving options for the Bears. If you look at his target volume over the beginning, you know, the first nine weeks of the season when the team was relatively healthy, you lost Trey burton in week 10. You lost Taylor Gabriel in week 13. Look at the target volume.

[Jason Moore]

Did they ever find Trey Burton?

[Andy Holloway]

They found him another team. He surfaced over on the Colts.

[Jason Moore]

I've been looking for Him, I just wasn't sure.

[Andy Holloway]

But the point is, is that look at those last five games when there were no other options to throw the ball to. He was, you know, he was on pace for 186 targets because, yeah, I mean he was a monster at the, at the end he was the only guy. But now look at their offseason moves.

[Unknown]

We don't like Ted Ginn.

[Andy Holloway]

Ted Ginn and Jimmy Graham, older guys, but that are coming in and are going to take receptions away. And you also draft Cole, commit. This is a team that has. Tight ends have been a predominant part of what they want to do and they haven't been healthy enough to do it. Two years ago, Trey Burton had 74 targets. Taylor Gabriel had 94 targets and those were the number two and number three options. Now you've got Anthony Miller, who's getting better. They've brought in Ted Ginn, they've brought in Jimmy Graham. There are other options to throw the ball to. I mean, two years ago he was on a 16 game pace. Allen Robinson with this team, with those other weapons, a 16 game pace of 116 targets. So it's just a matter of. Do you honestly think he's going to be this 155, 60 target guy? I've got him with 140 targets. That's solid. But he's got, he's getting 140 targets from a bad quarterback and that puts him as a wide receiver.

[Jason Moore]

I wouldn't use Jimmy Graham and I wouldn't.

[Unknown]

Yeah, say I wouldn't use.

[Jason Moore]

I'm fine with the regression of targets, but I wouldn't. Teddy hasn't stolen targets from anybody in 12 years.

[Andy Holloway]

There has to be a reason for regression of targets. And when you, when you.

[Jason Moore]

Well, how about the emergence of Anthony Miller? You want to go the emergence of Anthony Miller over a five game span last year, over the back half of the year, that I can buy, sure.

[Andy Holloway]

But I mean, okay, let me ask you this. Does Jimmy Graham get more or less than 60 targets this season?

[Jason Moore]

Honestly, I have no idea. I don't know if Jimmy Graham gets on the field for more than three or four games.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, what do you have him statted for? Right? I mean we. You've got him statted for 50.

[Unknown]

That is correct.

[Jason Moore]

52 targets is what I have him.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay, so. And I've got, I've got him right at 60. But I mean, so those are, those are targets that are. That he's getting. Is he good with those? No, he's not going to do much. Should they throw him the ball 50 or 60 times. No, but they're paying him big money. So when I say that the target regression is coming and I bring up Jimmy Graham's name. Yeah, we roll our eyes at it. The Bears don't. The Bears gave a lot of money to a guy to come in and get the ball thrown to him 50, 60 times. Those passes, when they go to someone else, can't also go to Alan Robinson, so.

[Unknown]

But then the next three plays will go to Alan Robinson.

[Andy Holloway]

There isn't a next three plays because they threw to Jimmy Graham, and now it's fourth down. So I've got him as a wide receiver, too. I'd be happy with him as my wide receiver. Two, I would not be happy if I went running back. Running back Allen Robinson as my one.

[Jason Moore]

You know that. That is a good question, Mike, because even. Even you and I have them out. You know, not as low as Jason, but we have them on the outside of a wide receiver one by rankings. But I think I agree with Jason on that point. I don't think I want Alan Robinson as the one on my team. Do you feel comfortable with him as your one?

[Unknown]

Well, if you go running back, running back, what wide receivers left in that range are you actually happy that you have as a one? I mean, that can't be more than a list of two players. Well, let me ask you this.

[Jason Moore]

If the draft goes your way, Hopkins will be there.

[Andy Holloway]

Let me ask you this, Mike, because you've been, you know, the highest on these two players. You're up, and it's in the third round, and juju's there and Alan Robinson are there. Who would you rather take?

[Unknown]

Ooh, I do have juju projected slightly higher. I think I would probably go like, he. Let's say it's my wide receiver. 1. I would probably go Alan Robinson at that point. Just of the. He's a bit safer, you know, like, Ben is coming back off an injury. Like, I can't ignore that. That's not a real thing if I'm comparing him to Alan Robinson. So, yeah, I would probably go with Robinson, but if I went running back, running back, I would be really happy that I had Alan Robinson as my.

[Jason Moore]

All right, I want to pull the judge here for a second. If he's with us. Judge Giamatti, you present?

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Alan Robinson or DJ Chark. Who are you more comfortable with is your one?

[Unknown]

Oh, I'll take Chark.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, okay.

[Unknown]

You happen to pick a guy that.

[Jason Moore]

I'm all about that you're Pretty high on Alan Robinson or Adam Thielen. Is your wide receiver one, who are you more comfortable with?

[Andy Holloway]

Brooks.

[Unknown]

I'll go a rob there.

[Jason Moore]

Okay, what do you guys say? You want Robinson or you want Thielen as your one?

[Andy Holloway]

I am the same as Brooks. On both of those I would go Chark Robinson feeling.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, that does make sense. All right, Melvin Gordon. Let's talk about Melvin Gordon for a second. Here you go. Player by player, team by team. You walk through these running backs and I was surprised at how high I had Melvin Gordon when I, when I broke down what the Broncos do on offense and what I think Gordon's going to be given the opportunity to do. He ended up at 14. Jason has him at 15. I was a little surprised. Mike's got him down at 24 and you know he's still in the backfield with Royce Freeman and he's in the backfield with Philip Lindsay. So Mike, you've got him at 24. Therefore I just got a call from Melvin. He said respectfully, explain yourself.

[Unknown]

It's for me with Melvin Gordon, a lot of it has to do with those other two guys. Last year we saw 358 about carries from the running back position in Denver. Philip Lindsay, who is coming off a back to back thousand yard seasons, I know that they bolstered the running back depth chart, but he's not just going to vanish into thin air. And I contend that the same is for Royce Freeman. Like Freeman may not be on the field a ton, but he definitely eats into the workload or the potential that we've been used to with Melvin Gordon. Melvin Gordon is still a massive injury risk. We have one season of seeing 16 games with Melvin Gordon. He's seen over 200 carries just twice in his five year career. And then you have the variable of going from the the king. Phil Rivers is the king of checking down to the running back position to Drew Locke, who small sample but Drew Locke, that was not his game. He wasn't all about just feeding his running backs a ton of targets, which to me Melvin Gord would need very sustained target volume if he's going to get back into that conversation of being a high end running back too. On top of that, he's just, he's an inefficient running back. He's been over four yards an attempt one time in his entire five seasons. Like maybe Melvin Gordon's just not that good.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, you know where he is good, he's good around the goal line, man. I mean he is good at Getting touchdowns. You could say whatever you want about why they came or whether they're repeatable or if it's a sticky stat. But he has been pretty solid at putting up touchdowns.

[Unknown]

He's got a lot of opportunities to.

[Andy Holloway]

Score touchdowns and I believe Denver will give him the opportunity. And they, they paid him in a manner that says they will. It was ironic. You know, we did this research here and we found if for running backs that see 250 touches and eight total touchdowns passing receiving, are they a top 15 running back? And the Borgogan monster went out and researches back over the last five years and pretty much they always are. I won't read you every year, but over the last five years, out of 46 running backs to see 250 touches and eight touchdowns, 93% in as a top 15 running back. And so you say it needs the passing volume work. I think, I think, you know, I'm not going based on a five game sample size for Drew Locke about whether or not he'll throw to Melvin Gordon, but I think they're paying him enough to give him the ball 250 times and give him the opportunities of touchdowns. That's why they brought him in. So I was surprised, just like Andy when I, when I finished my rankings, I didn't think I liked Melvin Gordon and I was like, oh, all right. I just, I think he's going to, he's getting.

[Unknown]

How many carries you have him get?

[Andy Holloway]

I have him literally at 250 on the dot.

[Jason Moore]

I am at 225 but still getting there because I don't think there's another running back out there on third down. They paid him the money. He's going to be out there on third down and I think that's just going to end up putting them over that 250 touch number that Jason's talking about. Efficient or not. You know what I mean? A lot of these NFL teams, the philosophical view is we hate it as fantasy football players sometimes because all we have are the analytics above us. But from a philosophical standpoint, they just believe in putting the ball in one guy's hand over and over again for what it does to break a defense down, for what it does for pass protection, for whatever the case may be. I found myself in that camp with Gordon. Do you have where we have him ranked in the range of outcomes, Mike, if things go right away?

[Unknown]

Yeah, certainly. I mean he's once again where my rank. I have him. You give Melvin Gordon probably one to two more touchdowns and he would jump right to where you guys have him ranked.

[Jason Moore]

Okay. All right. You guys ready to move on?

[Unknown]

Yep. Are you introducing yourself?

[Jason Moore]

Well, let me just do it again. That's not. I'm not introducing myself with that.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm not a man, Andy.

[Jason Moore]

I'm not that kind of a man.

[Andy Holloway]

Devo Samuel had an incredible rookie year. Had a moment, you know, a stretch of games where he really appeared to break out. We have that drop for a reason. Look like a man out there as a rookie, just absolutely dominating, throwing fools off, getting, you know, getting those screens and breaking tackles. Now this is a low passing offense with Jimmy Garoppolo not wanting to throw the ball downfield. They bringing in Brandon Ayuk and it basically just saying that sounds, you know, that I was right there with you.

[Unknown]

Get in on it, man. It's fun.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm in now.

[Jason Moore]

I was a little startled, I'll be honest.

[Unknown]

Excellent.

[Andy Holloway]

So the question is whether or not Debo is going to take that second year leap into being a really dominant fantasy asset. I think he's good. I have a hard time trusting the offense. I've got him at 29, Mike. You've got him up in the wide receiver to clear territory at 22 and he's got the full breakout coming. He's saying wide receiver 14 is where he's landing in his rankings right now. So on behalf of Mike and myself, Andy, swing yourself.

[Jason Moore]

I'd be happy to. I feel like Debo explained most of most of it for me every year.

[Unknown]

You know, being a man can only get you so far.

[Jason Moore]

I can get you pretty far, Mike. Here's the deal with Debo. You're right, Jason. It's not a hype passing volume offense. It's an offense that's predicated on a great running game, play action, passes, screen game. And thank goodness that they have a player like Debo Samuel because there's no more exciting place on the field for Jimmy Garoppolo than 6.5 yards away from the line of scrimmage. And Debo just plain wins at that level. You look at his success rate on screens and slants and he's in the upper echelon, 86 percentile in, in his slants, 100% in screen game. He was the number one graded runner at the wide receiver position by pro football focus last year. What impressed me about Debo was that you don't have to bake in a some sort of second year leap in involvement to get a breakout. Debo was the wide receiver six in fantasy football from week eight on last year, the wide receiver six, I got him at 14. I'm insulting him with my ranking. The reality is, how dare you. Emmanuel Sanders, he's not there and I'm not going to. I think that's kind of neutral. I don't think someone might want to go narrative street and say, well, now Emmanuel's gone and Debo's the one. Well, okay, Debo's got his role to play. He's going to run the football screen game, slant game. Maybe he matures. You know, he was good success rate on post routes. Maybe he earns some more targets. But he's a yak master. That's his game. I mean, he gets the ball in his hands and he finds a way to score. And at the end of the day, look, Debo, year two, heavy part of this offense. I just think you're going to see more of the same. And you know, it's not that wide receiver 6 level, but he had 10 drops last year. You guys can remember this. He had one on Monday night football about a 30 yard touchdown pass. No one was around him in the end zone. And I remember coming on this show the next week and saying, if he catches that pass, the perception of Debo Samuel over the back half of the year is completely different than if he doesn't. And sometimes for, you know, heading into a new year, you've got it. You've got to be willing to take the chance on a less proven player. And so Debo, somebody I would draft over juju, even though we've seen that humongous breakout season from juju before and we haven't from Debo. Fix a few drops, increase those target numbers a little bit, even if you don't. I think wide receiver 14 is a pretty comfy spot unless he gets hurt. So I'm feeling good with him there.

[Unknown]

I don't hate it. I have him at 22.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, you don't hate it, Mike.

[Unknown]

No.

[Jason Moore]

You know what.

[Unknown]

I like, you know, man, he's a man.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. I mean, if Jason moves him up five or six spots, I'd be willing to hit that drop. But.

[Unknown]

Oh, here's Jay.

[Andy Holloway]

Here's the thing. Just so you know, everybody. Everybody on my rankings also, man. So currently NFL requires.

[Unknown]

Yeah, but not like Debo. No.

[Andy Holloway]

Look, I hope you're. I hope you're right, Andy and I would. I feel like I would draft them ahead of where I've got him at 29 for the potential, you know you want to, especially once you're past those first few rounds. You know, we tend to swing for the fences, go high upside. The upside is what you described with Debo, and if he does, you know, clearly go into that wide receiver one role and dominate targets, I've only got him at like 108 targets. It's hard to get from there to a dominant fantasy finish.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I don't, I don't think he's going to get the kind of target volume you'd see from a prototypical wide receiver. One by any stretch of the imagination. The way he has to put it together, I mean, last year, what, 81 targets, 57 catches. Still over 800 yards on those 57 catches. But he's going to have to do it in the Percy Harvin type of role.

[Unknown]

No, that's a good comp.

[Jason Moore]

You know that. That's kind of who he is. But he's one of the player. You know, him and Calvin Ridley, I know we all like Calvin Ridley. Those are players that I'm really excited to watch on the field in 2020. Another man, Joni Smith. This is Jason's flag plant at the tight end position. Without question, I've got him at 19. Mike has him at 12. I don't. I'm not going to sit here and debate the athleticism or gifts Jonas Smith has shown on the football field. Consistency has been the issue. Jason Strong armed us into the breakout selection of Jonas smith for the UDK. Jason has him at 7. Explain yourself.

[Andy Holloway]

I remember early in the off season last year having to explain myself about a little man named Mario.

[Unknown]

Here we go.

[Andy Holloway]

And I remember two years ago having to explain myself about my ranking of Jared Cook.

[Unknown]

And this year I do remember that one, too.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I mean, I believe he finishes the tight end one this year. I was surprised, just like I was surprised by Cook, just like I was surprised by Mark Andrews. When I went through stating guys out, I was like, holy Jonu Smith. He's up at 7. That feels way too high. I'm literally looking at my stats like I need to move him down because I'm uncomfortable saying he's number seven, but he has the skill set to do it. You guys remember when Derek Henry got injured and they're like, it's okay, we'll give the ball to Joe New.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

And then he's running the ball like a beast. Because, Andy, you brought this up. He is an athletic freak. He's 250 pounds, he's 93rd percentile spark athlete. You know, his 40, his burst score, everything is, is, you know, up in the 90 percentile. He hasn't done it for several years, but we've brought this up so many times. There are, there are a lot of examples of tight ends needing several years, not the year two breakout before they, they get their chance and dominate. And if you think about it, he's been behind Delaney Walker his entire career until a stretch of games last year starting in week seven.

[Jason Moore]

Wasn't he most of the year last year?

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, starting in week seven. So Delaney Walker was there the first six weeks starting in week seven and on he was out on the field. But this wasn't the plan. It was still Delaney Walker's game. And so this was, this was his.

[Unknown]

It's not the plan.

[Andy Holloway]

This was the first chance of him really getting out there and getting that experience. I think that experience is going to propel him. For a team that utilizes the tight end in a pass catching role, he's got gifts. His yards per reception were fantastic. He caught almost 80% of his balls. He had a 3.7 yards of separation, you know, which was dominant. That was what Tyler Higby had last year. According to next gen stats. I think he has the skill set and the opportunity with Delaney Walker gone with what looks to be a solid offense. And I love the fact that they do get him involved in the, in the running game. He, you know, you say, okay, maybe he's got 600 receiving yards. Well, if he's got another hundred, you know, plus yards on the ground, that adds up for a tight end landscape where again, we, you know, we talk about this. If you have the tight end seven on your team, you're probably not happy week in and week out with that. He's not, you know, he's not up there in the, you know, the every week starter. But I think Jonu is going to have a breakout season this year. My stats, you know, I just let the chips fall where, where they fall. And I had Jonu at seven at.

[Jason Moore]

The tight end position. Breakout so often equates to consistency on some level because so few tight ends actually can do that. I am certainly marked by disappointment not seeing that from Jonu last year when Delaney went down and it was kind of the now's your time. But he's young, he's 24 years old. If you buy the argument.

[Unknown]

That's insane.

[Jason Moore]

This was the, you know, not the plan, as you said, this offseason narrative. Street has him and Tannehill already working out together. But you cannot be a top tight end and drop, you know, give me a number 12 or a number 7 finish and then give me a 50 or a 40 and be completely eliminated from the game plan. That's kind of a concern with all Tennessee players in the passing game is are you going to be eliminated for a week or two at a time when the Derek Henry Express gets rolling, will Joni be needed each and every week? Certainly a an athletic after catch type of player but I'm worried about the consistency.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. And I get that but you know if you look those first six weeks were irrelevant because he was. He was the backup tight end. Once he got that role, you know and you go from 7 to 16 he was on pace for 608 yards and five touchdowns. And if you look at where that would put you and that and that's not. That's excluding his hundred rushing yard pace as well. You know that's what Hunter Henry, you know last year had 652 and 5. Dallas Goddard had 607 and 5 that and he was already on the.

[Jason Moore]

Why'd you leave week 17 off?

[Andy Holloway]

Because he, he took the. He took week 17 off because he.

[Jason Moore]

Took a dump ski on that week. But he might in 12 from that week.

[Andy Holloway]

If I leave one of his. Yes. One of his games off. Just one. I'm saying he showed but that was his first chance to do it. He was a tight end one as the clear starter.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

In that next year at 24 years old I think he's going to be.

[Jason Moore]

And I'm always going to take a player like that.

[Andy Holloway]

Don't you want a tight end that like he's got the physical gifts that could just blow up. Not everybody can do that.

[Unknown]

Yes he could.

[Jason Moore]

Don't draft Jack Doyle anywhere. That's my always take the Joni Smith or the Herndon or the Fantasy or get sick Jarwin. Don't take the Eifert or the Whitten selection of the draft because you don't Mark Andrews, George Kittle, these are guys that have won people leagues. At least draft the player that has the potential to do that which he falls into that area. So no I mean the argument makes sense. So you you've definitely see if I.

[Andy Holloway]

Can go three and oh here on.

[Jason Moore]

Planted your flag with Jonu. I want to thank Pristine Auction for sponsoring today's podcast. Alvin camara signed Jersey $86.86 that's their promise to you. You will always pay the same amount of dollars and the same amount of cents if you bid it that way.

[Unknown]

If you want to.

[Andy Holloway]

Nothing is ever over $112 and 112 cents.

[Jason Moore]

Anything you want at Pristine Auction. That's the message. Get anything you want. But check them out. Use the code BALLERS. Pristineauction.com youm get a $10 credit towards your first sports memorabilia purchase. I just sold some sports memorabilia yesterday.

[Unknown]

You did?

[Andy Holloway]

Kobe Bryant rookie cards.

[Jason Moore]

I found a bunch of cards in my. It was a fun Sunday afternoon activity. I pulled out dusty old boxes of cards from my garage and found some old Kobe Bryant cards. And now My son, my 8 year old and I, we've decided we're going to collect football cards.

[Andy Holloway]

Nice.

[Jason Moore]

And make a little.

[Andy Holloway]

Are football cards a thing?

[Jason Moore]

They're very much a thing.

[Andy Holloway]

Really?

[Unknown]

Yeah. They were around back when we were younger too.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. I don't know if you. If you've either of you guys follow Gary Vee.

[Unknown]

Nope. Okay, I know who he is, but.

[Jason Moore]

Big entrepreneurial public speaker flying around Facebook. That type of guy. His number one. You can fly around Facebook, you can fly all over.

[Unknown]

That's how big it is.

[Jason Moore]

You can fly all over Facebook. If you're in a video form, Mike. You can get share flown around the country. But he's recently. He's the one who inspired me to even go look at my cards again because I hadn't thought about sports cards in about 20 years. But he thinks that they're like the next big investment, like sneakers. You talk about the sneaker game, those sneaker documentaries. A lot of people are buying rookie cards and wait, cards are coming back. They're coming back in a big way.

[Unknown]

Oh, crap. I have no idea where my cards are.

[Jason Moore]

I know, I know. I didn't either. By the way, if Glenn Robinson became a really big thing, I'd be the richest man on this earth because apparently I've got about 9 million Glenn Robinson big dog rookies. Big dog Glenn Robinson didn't really pan out. That must have been my card collecting year.

[Andy Holloway]

But he was solid.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, he wasn't that bad.

[Andy Holloway]

Right. Good vet.

[Jason Moore]

But his rookie card ain't worth jack, so. All right, that'll do it for today's episode of the show. Thank you for tuning in. I feel like we sufficiently explained ourselves. I'm exhausted. So we'll be back on Thursday.

[Unknown]

See you then. Goodbye.

[Andy Holloway]

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy Footballers podcast. Join our fantasy football community on jointhefoot.com and follow us on twitterffballers.