Fantasy Football 2018 - The TRUTH About Fantasy TEs in 2017

Summary

Fantasy Footballers Podcast Summary
Episode: 2018 - The TRUTH About Fantasy TEs in 2017
Release Date: January 25, 2018

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Introduction

In this episode of the Fantasy Footballers Podcast, hosts Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike "The Fantasy Hitman" Wright delve deep into the performance and reliability of tight ends (TEs) in the 2017 fantasy football season. The trio offers an analytical breakdown of key TEs, evaluates their consistency, and provides strategic advice for fantasy managers, particularly in dynasty leagues.

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Dynasty Tight End Rankings

Veteran TEs: Gronkowski, Kelce, Ertz

Jason Moore and Mike Wright engage in a spirited debate about the top three veteran tight ends suitable for dynasty leagues:

• Rob Gronkowski (Gronk):

  • Jason Moore (06:43): Ranks Gronk first due to his unparalleled potential for explosive performances, likening him to a "weapon of mass destruction" in fantasy terms.
  • Mike Wright counters by emphasizing Travis Kelce's longevity and consistency, arguing Kelce might be a better long-term investment despite Gronk’s higher upside.
  • Notable Quote:
    Jason Moore (07:15): “If Gronk had some crazy 20 touchdown season, no one's going to be shocked.”

• Travis Kelce:

  • Consistently productive with minimal injury concerns, making him a reliable option.
  • Mike Wright (08:39): Suggests Kelce may become more valuable with the addition of quarterback Patrick Mahomes, though he remains skeptical.

• Zach Ertz:

  • Praised for his consistency and low bust rate, with Jason Moore (09:40) positioning him just below Kelce in the rankings.

Conclusion:
While Gronk offers the highest upside, Kelce and Ertz provide more stable production, making them valuable assets in dynasty formats.

Rookie TEs: Evan Ingram, O.J. Howard, David Njoku

The discussion shifts to rookie tight ends, evaluating their performance and potential:

• Jason Moore (10:14): Criticizes O.J. Howard, labeling him a bust in redraft leagues, and highlights Evan Ingram as a significant miss despite a strong rookie season.
• Mike Wright (12:14): Prefers Evan Ingram over Howard and David Njoku, noting Ingram's high target volume despite offensive inefficiencies.

Conclusion:
Evan Ingram stands out among rookies for his target share, though concerns about offensive support and potential quarterback changes remain.

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News and Updates

Game Recaps and Player Updates

• Jaguars vs. Patriots:

  • Mike Wright (14:00): Critiques the Jaguars for poor play-calling in the second half, leading to a disappointing loss.
  • Jason Moore (14:43): Highlights the Patriots' strategic dominance, overshadowing the Jaguars' efforts.

• Eagles vs. Vikings:

  • The game was rough for Vikings, with Nick Foles underperforming (classified worse than spiking the ball in pass rating).
  • Mike Wright (16:32): Mentions Foles' pass rating plummeting from 152.1 to 34.0 under pressure.

Player Injuries and Updates

• Rob Gronkowski:

  • Mike Wright (17:14): Reports Gronk is in concussion protocol but is optimistic about his return by the Super Bowl.

• Jimmy Garoppolo:

  • Jason Moore (20:14): Notes that the 49ers are keen to extend Garoppolo’s contract, reflecting confidence in his performance.

• Sammy Watkins:

  • Mike Wright (21:35): Discusses the Rams’ intent to re-sign Sammy Watkins, despite his competition with Robert Woods and Conor Kupp.

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Detailed Analysis of Tight Ends

Performance Metrics and Consistency

The hosts introduce their metrics for evaluating tight ends:

• Great Games: Over 15 fantasy points (Top 3 finish)
• Good Games: Over 9 fantasy points (Top 10 finish)
• Bust Games: Fewer than 7 fantasy points (Bottom 16)

Jason Moore (29:21) emphasizes that tight ends are one of the hardest positions to draft due to high inconsistency and bust rates.

Individual Tight End Evaluations

1. Rob Gronkowski (Rank 1)

   • Performance: Dominant with a 54% chance of super performances.
   • Consistency: Low bust rate at 23% after recalculating statistics.
     • Quote (31:02):
       Mike Wright: "Rob Gronkowski is actually the number one inconsistency score."

2. Travis Kelce (Rank 2)

   • Slightly behind Gronk in overall performance but praised for longevity and consistent production.

3. Zach Ertz (Rank 3)

   • Performance: 74 receptions, 824 yards, 8 touchdowns with a low bust rate (21%).
   • Strengths: Consistent PPR receiver, reliable with Carson Wentz at QB.

4. Jimmy Graham (Rank 4)

   • Performance: 57 receptions, 520 yards, 10 touchdowns with a low bust rate (38%).
   • Role: Primarily a red-zone target, reliable for touchdowns but limited yardage.

5. Evan Ingram (Rank 5)

   • Performance: 64 receptions, 722 yards, 6 touchdowns.
   • Strengths: High target volume with explosive play potential, though catch rate is middling.

6. Delaney Walker (Rank 6)

   • Performance: 74 receptions, 807 yards, 3 touchdowns.
   • Concerns: High bust rate (44%) and dependency on a struggling quarterback.

7. Kyle Rudolph (Rank 7)

   • Performance: 57 receptions, 532 yards, 8 touchdowns.
   • Perception: Publicly viewed as a bust despite comparable stats to Graham.

8. Jack Doyle (Rank 8)

   • Performance: 80 receptions, 690 yards, 4 touchdowns.
   • Strengths: Reliable when integrated into the Colts’ offense, though plagued by inconsistent performances early in the season.

9. Cameron Brait (Rank 9)

   • Performance: 600 yards, 6 touchdowns.
   • Consistency: Busted 56% of the time, yet still considered a top 10 TE due to the overall weak TE pool.

10. Jason Witten (Rank 10)

    • Performance: 87 targets, lower yards per reception.
    • Concerns: High bust rate (50%) and declining performance despite being a veteran presence.

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Strategies for Fantasy Managers

Streaming TEs:

• Jason Moore (62:50): Advocates for streaming the tight end position rather than investing heavily in a single TE. Suggests managers can effectively utilize waiver wire pickups like Cameron Brait, Jack Doyle, Jason Witten, Benjamin Watson, or Eric Ebron to cover matchups.

Drafting Approaches:

• Capital Allocation: Jason Moore (37:22) advises prioritizing wide receivers and other positions over tight ends in dynasty drafts, given the high variability and inconsistency at the TE position.
• Late-Round Picks: Recommends targeting TEs in the later rounds (8th-10th) to minimize risk while still having upside potential.

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Conclusions and Insights

The episodes emphasize that the TE position in fantasy football, particularly in dynasty leagues, remains one of the most challenging to navigate due to its inherent inconsistency and the limited pool of reliable performers. While elite players like Gronk, Kelce, and Ertz offer high upside, their volatility necessitates strategic drafting and active management.

Key Takeaways:

• Elite TEs are worthwhile but come with risks: Gronkowski provides explosive potential, Kelce offers consistent performance, and Ertz strikes a balance between the two.
• Rookie TEs show promise but require cautious optimism: Evaluating offensive support and long-term viability is crucial.
• Streaming TEs can mitigate the position's volatility: Utilizing the waiver wire effectively allows managers to capitalize on matchups without overcommitting draft capital.
• Focus on other positions for stability: Building a robust core at wide receiver and running back is more reliable for championship success, relegating the TE position to a streamed or late-round priority.

Final Quote: Jason Moore (70:54): “Once we get everything in free agency and the draft and coaching changes are done, we start making those 2018 rankings, there will be many interesting conversations at tight end because if there's anything that you need to learn about the truth of tight end here, it's that while the position sucks, that means how you draft the position matters even more.”

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Closing Remarks

The hosts wrap up by reiterating the importance of strategic drafting and active management at the TE position, urging listeners to stay informed and adaptable throughout the season. They also tease future episodes focusing on coaching changes and further TE analysis for the upcoming season.

Mike Wright (71:17): “Thank you so much for supporting the show. Foot clan. We love you draft.com ballers. Play some best ball. Goodbye.”

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For more insights and community discussions, visit FantasyFootballers.com and follow the hosts on Twitter @FFballers.

Transcript

[Jason Moore]

Before Daymond John was hosting Shark Tank. He was a kid from Queens, sewing hats by hand and selling them on the street. How did Damon turn that business into fubu, a multi billion dollar fashion company? He learned to outhustle the competition every day. Damon's new podcast, Rise and Grind, gets entrepreneurs like Gary Vaynerchuk and Tyler the creator to share secrets to outworking your way to the top, just like he did. So subscribe to Daymond John's new podcast, Rise and Grind in Apple Podcasts, Stitcher or wherever you listen. Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast. Coming to you from the Play Draft Studios with your hosts, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore and Mike Wright.

[Mike Wright]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the podcast. This is the Fantasy Footballers Podcast. I am today's host. They wanted the best, so they brought me back.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, there you're here, Mike.

[Mike Wright]

I am. Here I am. Mike the fantasy hitman. Right. I'm joined by Jason Moore. How are you doing, Jay?

[Jason Moore]

Well, I'm doing very well. We just got back from a vacation, I should say an award winning vacation. Not really vacation.

[Mike Wright]

Here's the thing, you can't possibly call this a vacation because if the wives listen to this recording and of you calling it a vacation, I am, I am gonna.

[Jason Moore]

You're dead.

[Mike Wright]

I will be bodied.

[Jason Moore]

You're. We. We had a business trip.

[Mike Wright]

It's a business trip.

[Jason Moore]

It was, it was, it was an award winning business.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

And shout out to the Foot Clan. Right. Because we were in fact able to take home the best social media award from the Fantasy Sports Trade association, which basically is the award for who's the most active fan base on social media. So shout out to you. We also took home the small business of the year.

[Mike Wright]

Yes. But the one I'm most proud of, that Foot Glen Award, certainly another hashtag Footland title. We thank you so very much. Andy Holloway is. He's traveling to Mars. He actually, he's talking to Elon right now and so he's getting prepared. So you know what that means. J. Grizz in the house.

[Jason Moore]

Jay Grizz. Update on Twitter, Jay Grizz, our cardboard bear who stands in for someone who is missing is nearing the 10,000 Twitter followers mark. So if you would like to follow Jay Grizz on Twitter. A great. No joke.

[Mike Wright]

Yes, a very good follow.

[Jason Moore]

Great follow. You can follow him at J. Grizzffl.

[Mike Wright]

Like I said, welcome into the podcast. This is the Fantasy Footballers Podcast. Today we are going to talk the truth about tight ends.

[Jason Moore]

It's not good. It's like we're Going to talk about the. And there's the show. There's the show. They suck. We will get into the nitty gritty on each tight end. How they did, how often they busted, how often they had a great game or gave you a solid performance. But it, I mean, look, spoiler alert.

[Mike Wright]

It's rough, it's not good. I mean, you're gonna strap on the.

[Jason Moore]

Sewage boots for sure. We're gonna be waiting knee deep in.

[Mike Wright]

Some tight end sludge.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, sludge. There you go. That's the. That's a better word than what I had.

[Mike Wright]

If you want to connect with the show, you can always check out the website, the fantasy footballers.com. there's still content going up, like the 25 tight end statistics. Travis Strickland put that one together. Part of our 25 stats series. There's always very interesting nuggets in there, very fun to read, as well as some truth articles kind of recovering what we're talking about today. Before we get into this, quick question, though, an extra special shout out. Foot Clan. I mean, you guys and gals are re. Ridiculous.

[Jason Moore]

Never cease to amaze.

[Mike Wright]

Ryan Scott, we had talked about during the footies that I said on the show, I said, hey, we need a blacksmith.

[Jason Moore]

Which was ridiculous.

[Mike Wright]

Yes. And I was. My name was besmirched upon this show. I was ridiculed because you guys thought that was ridiculous.

[Jason Moore]

Certainly was.

[Mike Wright]

Lo and behold, Ryan Scott, a bladesmith came through.

[Jason Moore]

Yes, we needed a bladesmith.

[Mike Wright]

He handcrafted a footy trophy that is on display. Check it out on the YouTube right now. YouTube.com the fantasy footballers.

[Jason Moore]

But subscribe and turn on your notifications.

[Mike Wright]

Yes, yes, thank you very much. But Ryan Scott, this thing is an absolute beauty. Beautiful. And you can check out Ryan and all his work. Rlscottknives.com they still exist, Jason.

[Jason Moore]

Wow. I mean, if you need someone to make you knives.

[Mike Wright]

He can't do horseshoes.

[Jason Moore]

No, he can't.

[Mike Wright]

He let us know.

[Jason Moore]

No, those would be very uncomfortable for the horse and him just walking on knives.

[Mike Wright]

Or the most lethal horse of all time, warhorse Sadie.

[Jason Moore]

We.

[Mike Wright]

Why you got to go there? I was going to talk about when they put armor onto horses back in the day, why didn't they have, like, put knives on their feet so they can just kick everyone?

[Jason Moore]

I wasn't there. They might have.

[Mike Wright]

I mean, you know, historians, we need you.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

All right, let's get into the quick question of the day. We are going to rank some tight ends for dynasty purposes. We're going to start with Some, some older gentlemen and then we're going to take a look at some younger guys. Rank these three tight ends for Dynasty. Jason Moore.

[Jason Moore]

Okay.

[Mike Wright]

Rob Gronkowski, who will be turning 29 in May. Travis Kelsey, he will turn 29 in October. And Zach Ertz, he will turn 28 this upcoming November. So for all purposes, he's, he'll be essentially 27 for next year's season. Which, that number actually surprised me that it's that old.

[Jason Moore]

Right? Yes. I mean, you, you look at Zach Ertz and you think of him as in, you know, he's got three or four more years on top of whatever you would get out of Gronk or Kelsey. Not just one more. That being said, this is an easy ranking for me and we were talking about this before, I don't know your ranking, but when I, when I saw the quick question before the show, I said, oh, this, this one's super easy. And you thought it was not.

[Mike Wright]

It's worth talking about. I do believe it's easier than most questions, but there are, I think, some arguments.

[Jason Moore]

Well, you have a follow up question that's far more difficult. Yeah, I think so. I would rank them. Gronk first.

[Mike Wright]

Okay.

[Jason Moore]

Zach Ertz second. Travis Kelsey third. All right, now your eyes went up. Is that different? Yeah, they did.

[Mike Wright]

And because I think there's an argument to be made for Travis Kelsey to be number one on this list.

[Jason Moore]

All right, well, this is why we have these questions.

[Mike Wright]

I mean, he's dig deep. He's absolutely. Because he's dominant. And while he has an injury history to start his career, since that time he has been fine. Meanwhile, Rob Gronkowski is a ticking time bomb. Every single season.

[Jason Moore]

He is a ticking time bomb. That is a nuclear bomb, though. I mean, that's true. You know, when you have him, he's an, you know, a weapon of mass destruction that can just win you a week left, right and center. I mean, we'll get into that this year. Looking at his production and I'm going to swing for the fences if I've got, if I'm going to take a tight end or, you know, I generally, if this is a Dynasty startup, I'm probably not drafting probably any of these guys to be, to be honest, because I would rather spend the earlier capital on wide receivers and other positions. But I think that Kelsey has change coming up. I mean, maybe he gets better with Pat Mahomes. I'm predicting, I think not. Shockingly not a fire. Take that. Alex Smith won't be there next year. Whereas the other two have really solid. We know that Tom Brady is going to play until he's 58. True. I mean, who's. Whose career is going to be over first? Tom Brady or Tom Brady? So I'm not really worried about that, but I'm going to. If I have to pick one of these guys, I want the guy who can truly dominate the position. I love Zachary, I really like Travis Kelsey, but neither one of them could do what Gronk can do and go out there. I mean, if Gronk had, you know, some crazy 20 touchdown season, no one's going to be shocked. Zach Ertz isn't going to do that.

[Mike Wright]

I think my argument, just speaking to Dynasty was the fact that I think Travis Kelsey will be playing longer than Gronk. So if you are trying to go for longevity, well, that's where I put.

[Jason Moore]

I put Zach Ertz ahead of Kelsey because I think the consistency, when you look at how often you get a bust game from Tin, his franchise quarterback.

[Mike Wright]

Is also very young in Zachary.

[Jason Moore]

Exactly. I mean you've got continuity with the offense, you've got a year longer of age, you have a lower percentage of bust games. And you know, when we look at the stats today, you'll see that Zach Ertz, where he falls short of Kelsey is in the big boom games. And that metric that we have established is basically for tight ends, it's 15 points or more. Zachary had two games where he was less than half a point away from that. I mean, so I know, but I'm just saying you change first, your last and he beats him across the board in every metric. I love Zachary.

[Mike Wright]

All right, this, this set of three is a bit more difficult. It was a hot topic coming into last off season because this was three first round NFL draft tight ends, Evan Ingram, O.J. howard and David Njoku. And I will say just for the reference of the people, the consensus, not necessarily ours, but just the consensus of the industry. Correct me if I'm wrong, Jason, if you recall differently, it went Howard, Njoku, Ingram, that's how these guys it did Howard went in Dynasty drafts.

[Jason Moore]

Howard was being drafted especially. I don't know where he was in Dynasty draft in rookie draft, but he.

[Mike Wright]

Was a late first round rookie pick.

[Jason Moore]

Yes, mid to late if you're just talking a rookie. But I didn't know about startup. But even in redrafts last year, OJ Howard was creeping up to that like number 12 and we had him all over the ultimate draft kit as a bust. Do not draft O.J. howard in a Redraft league this last year right now for, you know, if I'm doing a dynasty startup draft, I would rank those three guys. Evan Ingram, who, you know, I know I was lower on going into last year. He was probably my. My biggest miss at the position. Then I would put in Joku, followed by Howard. I would still have Howard third because Njoku showed a lot of what he showed in college in small spurts. And I'm not ever, ever, ever, ever going to be turned off of what I saw in college based on a rookie year performance of tight end. What. What Evan Ingram did is the outlier. I mean, he had the best tight end rookie season.

[Mike Wright]

Ppr.

[Jason Moore]

Yes. In ppr. All since. All the way back to Mike Ditka, the player.

[Mike Wright]

No, no, no, no. You're skipping out on Jeremy Shockey.

[Jason Moore]

I thought he beat Jeremy Shockey's 2002, did he not?

[Mike Wright]

Oh, he. Yes, he did top him. But I was just saying that that's. You have to go back to 2002. Jeremy Shockey, when a rookie tight end was so dominant for PPR leagues. And then.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, of course.

[Mike Wright]

Mike Ditka. Mike Ditka.

[Jason Moore]

Who'd win in a fight?

[Mike Wright]

Oh, who would win in a fight. Okay, Mike Ditka or Bill Brasky?

[Jason Moore]

Trick question. Mike Ditka is Bill Brass.

[Mike Wright]

It's a trick question. The world ends.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

If those two lock horns. All right, so you want Ingram and Joku Howard.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, because Njoku was drafted to be a receiving option, and even though Howard had a couple big games, he started.

[Mike Wright]

Coming on towards the end.

[Jason Moore]

He did, but he's still in a system that utilizes two tight ends. And he's still going to be splitting receptions with Cameron Bray. I don't see that going away.

[Mike Wright]

Well, Cameron Braith's receptions went away.

[Jason Moore]

No, no, not necessarily. They came back towards the end.

[Mike Wright]

What is he talking. The end when O.J. howard was on IR.

[Jason Moore]

Yep. That helped.

[Mike Wright]

I would. I'm going to take him. Angram Howard in Joku.

[Jason Moore]

All right.

[Mike Wright]

And honestly, I mean, it's still close for. For Angram and Howard.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, really? So Howard is almost your number one.

[Mike Wright]

It's very close. Ingram is.

[Jason Moore]

It's.

[Mike Wright]

He's Jordan Reed where he just. He cannot block. But there was some pretty strong inefficiencies in Evan Anger that will be brought up that, you know, you have to check the tape. Maybe you're going to blame Eli, you're going to blame Evan Anger. But he was. He was a. He benefacted a lot from volume.

[Jason Moore]

Yes.

[Mike Wright]

And Their number one wide receiver was off the team. The number two was off the team.

[Jason Moore]

The number three was off the team for a good chunk of the year.

[Mike Wright]

So while I like Evan Ingram, I have him on my Dynasty squad. I'm super happy about it. I'm just not ready to call that fight yet.

[Jason Moore]

Right.

[Mike Wright]

All right, let's get into some news and notes because we were gone. If you checked into Tuesday show. Thank you. That was the truth about quarterbacks. We had to record it earlier due to the FSTA business trip. So we haven't even got to talk about the games or anything.

[Jason Moore]

Let's talk about games.

[Mike Wright]

All right.

[Jason Moore]

News and notes from around the league.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, go ahead.

[Jason Moore]

You know, on Tuesday's show, I joked a lot about how the Jaguars won the game.

[Mike Wright]

Right, Right.

[Jason Moore]

Because we were just predicting and I was feeling really good about that watching up until about halfway through the fourth quarter where the light bulb goes off and you go, oh, what am I talking about? Like the Patriots still going to win the game. Yeah. Like it became. You could see the Jaguars players kind of go, oh, no. Like this is going to happen.

[Mike Wright]

They turned into the Jacksonville Turtles. The coaching was fully retracted into the shell and said, okay, let's, we're just going to hold on. I mean, they grabbed, they grabbed on the pull up bar and we're like, okay, let's, let's see how long we can hang here.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

No matter who you are, Tom Brady will always pull you off the bar.

[Jason Moore]

Just keep playing the same defense that was dominating him. Like what?

[Mike Wright]

And offense.

[Jason Moore]

Yes, the offense was so. Everything about the play calling in the second half, especially the fourth quarter, was horrendous for the very first Jaguars. It makes you question whether or not like, okay, it was weird that you had a coach in Tennessee win a playoff game and get fired. Then you're going, should there be some coaching changes in Jacksonville? You were a half a quarter away from getting to the super bowl, but you're coaching your play calling offensive and offensively and defensively lost you that game. That's rough for Jags fans out there.

[Mike Wright]

And we all know that the Eagles trampled.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, my goodness.

[Mike Wright]

I think I just made up a new word.

[Jason Moore]

But it was a necessary creation because they got trampled big time. That's when. Do you know what a trompeling is?

[Mike Wright]

It's trampled and tromped at the exact same time.

[Jason Moore]

It's dying in a stampede. But the stampede is only elephants. War elephants.

[Mike Wright]

We're just like, okay, I thought you were going to bring up the Lion King.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. I mean it's, it's basically the Vikings were Mufasa. Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

And it was over. And this shout out to Pat Thorman. Great follow on Twitter. He tweeted out against the Vikings, Nick Foles pass rating while under pressure was 152.1. 158.3 is a perfect wow. Before Sunday, Nick Foles pass rating while under pressure was 34.0. Spiking the ball every play is 39.6. So he was worse than spiking the ball. Then goes up against essentially the number one or the number two defense in the league.

[Jason Moore]

They weren't that weak.

[Mike Wright]

They were awful.

[Jason Moore]

This was the game where they were looking ahead. I have to believe that. I mean the emotional high that comes from that crazy at home victory against the Saints the week prior, it was destiny. You were bound for the super bowl at home. It was a done deal. You're playing against a team with their backup quarterback and they didn't show up. I mean they showed up on drive one and then it was, it was over. Especially for that defense. Now there was, there's a lot said about the fact that the Minnesota Vikings defense was very different home and road. But I mean you're playing against Nick Foles superstar.

[Mike Wright]

So now, so now we have Nick Foles taking on Tom Brady in the Super Bowl.

[Jason Moore]

Has there ever been an easier run like look to go the Titans, the Jaguars and the Eagles without the quarterback.

[Mike Wright]

The Jaguars almost beat them.

[Jason Moore]

I know I, I believe that New England looks very beatable is my point. But they have had the luck on their side and some stripes a little bit.

[Mike Wright]

We'll, we'll see. Just some updates from the game. Rob Gronkowski was knocked out of that game in concussion protocol. Patriots are optimistic he'll be cleared. You know, benefit benefits them that the super bowl is two weeks out instead of one. Nick Foles had some precautionary X rays on his ribs. There was one player, he took a massive shot, but he's fine. He's playing through reminder Foot clan your NFL playoff challenge. If you're, if you're still in it, if you went Patriots and Eagles, congratulations, you're among.

[Jason Moore]

You're the one that did it or you're a Philly fan or if your.

[Mike Wright]

Your lineup is like mine is completely blown up and you need to get new players in there to the news giant. Sigh. Robbie Anderson was arrested, charged with harm to a public servant, reckless driving, eluding police, resisting arrest. This was last Friday, so about a.

[Jason Moore]

Week ago in Florida this is his second issue now. He was arrested before. It really is. It's just a shame. I mean, we can't talk too long about it, but you're an undrafted guy. You have dreams of going to the NFL, coming off of a breakout, and you get in, you get your chance, you take the most of it. You take the most of it and you make the most of it and you have an incredible breakout year and you put yourself in a situation now where you can't, you can't be the. You, you. You're not allowed as an undrafted guy with this on your record to be the face of anything. You know, you can't be the, the star player for a team, the face of the franchise. And you almost had an opportunity here because of the lack of, you know, big time players for the Jets. And I don't know what they're going to do, but that's rough. If you look into what he was arrested for and what he did, it's not good.

[Mike Wright]

And he's coming into his contract year. This is the third year of his undrafted rookie contract. I mean, he's going to be paid well, assuming he's on the team. Because this was a big assumption last year too, was, will Robbie Anderson still be on the team? He's only going to make. Look, it's a lot of money, but NFL money, 630 grand. And will he be on the team? Will people give him another chance? Don't know.

[Jason Moore]

Yep. His quarterback, though, Josh McCown, free agent. Says he wants to play.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. Josh McCown's not letting Tom Brady take the age record. You kidding me? Josh McCown is going to play forever. So he'll be back. He was having the best year of his career.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Which is insane. He's 39.

[Mike Wright]

Cam Newton suffered ligament and cartilage damage in his knee during the wild card loss. He does not need surgery. GM 49ers GM John lynch has confirmed he wants to extend free agent Jimmy Garoppolo.

[Jason Moore]

Jason, shocking news. Yeah. Good call. John lynch, clearly great gm.

[Mike Wright]

We're looking into it. Gave up a second round pick.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Go ahead and sign him to whatever he wants.

[Mike Wright]

It's going to be a handsome contract.

[Jason Moore]

What was the. You fed a Twitter quote?

[Mike Wright]

We're not going to bring this.

[Jason Moore]

All right.

[Mike Wright]

We're not bringing that one up. Family show on this, on this podcast here. This is interesting to me though. Rams GM Les need confirmed they want to resign Sammy Watkins. It's not. It's not surprising. Given up or given what they gave up in the trade to get Sammy Watkins, but he's going to cost a lot of money to retain. Either you have to franchise him or give him a big contract because that's what Sammy Watkins is going to want. And he was the number two on the team. Robert woods vastly outplayed him.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I mean you could, you could even argue he was the number three behind Cooper cup and Robert woods, however, and Todd Gurley. I mean he was, however, he was a red zone machine. He was a, he was a touchdown guy and he actually does make a big difference for this team. So I don't blame them saying they, and look, their most expensive receiver, Tavon Austin.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, he's gone.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, exactly. He's going to be freed up. So I mean if you just take that money, put it over to Sammy, you probably could get the job done. Sure. The question is whether Sammy wants to be there and be in that role of being the second third.

[Mike Wright]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

First option. Who knows?

[Mike Wright]

That's a good question because you aren't lead dog but you're on an up and coming team with Jared Goff who looks like a franchise quarterback. Sean McVeigh, elite, elite offensive mind in the NFL. So would you take the cut at your, your level in the pecking order to stay with the team?

[Jason Moore]

No, I wouldn't. I would. I mean if I'm a, if I'm Sammy, I'm going to go out and test the market. I'm going to see what team has a need for a wide receiver that's willing to spend a lot of money who has a good quarterback. If those three things are out there, I'm going there because you're going to, you're going to make more money for, you know, a short career. You're going to make more money on the following contract by being the one. So long as I can have a good quarterback.

[Mike Wright]

Would you rather be on the Rams or on the Raiders for Sammy Watkins?

[Jason Moore]

For Sammy Watkins, I would rather be on the Rams. I think they're just going to be a better team and you don't know that you're going to be the one if you go over to Amari Cooperstown.

[Mike Wright]

Nice. Not bad. Impending free agent Levy and Bell. Apparently the contract talks are a lot closer than the better than I'm going to retire.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, if you're in some best ball leagues. Hey Bookland. Oh, the way to early best ball is out by draft and we went to California so I was playing the heck out of them. Be on the lookout for some invites. Certainly if you've gone to draft.comballers to follow us then when I when I start a league or a draft you.

[Mike Wright]

Can hop on in David Johnson, his wrist is back to 100%. That's just good news to hear. Now for coaching changes. The Cardinals have hired the Panthers defensive coordinator Steve Wilkes as the head coach.

[Jason Moore]

I really like that we're still in the news like as far as we can push tight end talk away. I was the better I want to get to like we should get to the tight ends when we get when we hit about the 50 minute mark and then just fly through the garbage.

[Mike Wright]

People want to hear the truth.

[Jason Moore]

I know they do. No they think they do. This is today's drop is truly like you can't handle the real truth here anyways. Yes. Steve Wilkes hired as the Arizona Cardinals coach. He was the one year defensive coordinator for the Carolina Panthers. Kind of an assistant head coach. Did a lot on defense, highly regarded guy. He brought the linebackers coach with him as well. That has worked with Steve Wilts for a long time. So this is a good move for the defense.

[Mike Wright]

It makes sense for the Cardinals having a stronger defense playing to their strengths and the offense is in who knows. So don't worry about an offensive guy right now. Figure out what the pieces are going to be and then make sure you get get a good oc.

[Jason Moore]

No, we're going to have a whole coaching changes episode. It is my favorite episode of the off season every single year that will be coming probably in February. We'll want to make sure we know what all the changes are. There's still, you know, a couple weeks before some of these hires can be made, especially with coordinators, things like that. But I can't fathom that on that show. I'm going to be very kind to Mike Vrabel who has been announced the head coach of the Tennessee Titans. Oh, I like Mike Vrabel. Like I liked him as a player. I liked him as a coach when it was hard knocks and he was, I think he was just like a linebackers coach. I liked him. I didn't think he was anything great. But you want to talk about a premature hire. This guy was like a one year defensive coordinator with a wink. Like Romeo Crinnell was there as the assistant head coach and really was partially a defensive coordinator and driving dropping flames. And then I know you had some injuries for your defense but also your defense sucked the second half of the year. Oh, you're hired upgrade. You're a head coach. I think he's in over his Head, but I hope he's not. I'll look into it more.

[Mike Wright]

For that show, the Giants have hired Pat Schumer as their head coach. Do you like that hire?

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, yeah, I do. I mean when the Cardinals head coaching gig was open, I wouldn't have mind if he came. It's kind of a little bit of a retread. But he's not entirely a retread because his head coaching experience, it didn't count.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, it was the short lived time with the Browns.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. If you coach the Browns, you get a pass.

[Mike Wright]

No, no, no. Hugh Jackson does not get a pass from me.

[Jason Moore]

All right.

[Mike Wright]

No.

[Jason Moore]

But Pastor Mar also did not go 1 in 31.

[Mike Wright]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. I'm not. This is not a blanket statement for all Browns coaches. We'll see what he can do. The Browns have hired ex Steelers OC Todd Haley as their offensive coordinator. I love it.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I think that's a great hire.

[Mike Wright]

Todd Haley always has fantastic offenses.

[Jason Moore]

Nobody likes working with them, but they always produce. Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

So a couple years and it's a very interesting unit with Corey Coleman, Josh Gordon. Who's the quarterback? We're not sure yet. Will it be Kaiser? Will they take someone at the number one pick in the NFL draft?

[Jason Moore]

Possibly Sequan Barkley?

[Mike Wright]

Maybe.

[Jason Moore]

Who knows?

[Mike Wright]

Maybe. And so let's, let's get into the truth here. But before we do that, we want to thank today's sponsor, Pristine Auction. Folklon. You know that name? You know Pristine Auction.

[Jason Moore]

You better know that name.

[Mike Wright]

That the absolute best sports memorabilia place on the planet right now. We have a signed Evan Angam jersey up on the wall. We got that bad dog from Pristine Auction. For prices that you would not be believe that here's some things that went very recently on Pristine Auction. Speaking of Evan Ingram. A signed Giants mini helmet signed by Evan Ingram. $45. A golden Tate signed mini helmet. 54, 55. 55. $55.

[Jason Moore]

Beautiful.

[Mike Wright]

I mean a Tyree kill signed Chiefs custom matte white ice mini speed helmet. Only $60. Falkland There are deals every single day because they have new stuff. Hundreds of new things up on Priston auction every single day. You got to check it out. You can make a completely free account. It's P R I S T I n e auction.com when you do that, let them know that the fantasy footballers sent you have a peek. Bidding is free. You don't pay unless you win. We highly suggest them the signatures are always, always authentic and they take care of their people. Over at Pristine Auction. But now, Jason, the moment you've been waiting for.

[Jason Moore]

You want answers?

[Mike Wright]

I think I'm entitled.

[Jason Moore]

You want answers? I want the truth. You. You can't handle the truth.

[Mike Wright]

All right, the truth about tight ends. And just to review real quick, I know Jason mentioned it, but here's our. Here's our breakdown. Great games are more than 15 points because on average that put you out about a top three. Good games are more than nine points. It's about a top ten finish on average. And the bus games are fewer than seven points. Generally that puts you outside of the top 16.

[Jason Moore]

This is all done based on half point PPR scoring.

[Mike Wright]

The best.

[Jason Moore]

Yes. The only scoring format to use the ppr.

[Mike Wright]

People are going to come out of the woods at me on that one. A quick review or should say overview of the tight end. We had six tight ends with 100 plus targets. That was the same as 2016, although we only had four tight ends with 75 plus receptions. That was down by one. Only two tight ends with a thousand yards. However, because tight end we talk about is a streamable position, 12 tight ends had five or more touchdowns. Can you believe that?

[Jason Moore]

12. Yeah, it does make sense. I mean the tight end position is one of those where when you stream that's what you're looking for is who's got the matchup, the. And the body. You know, size and utilization in their office to just get a touchdown that game.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, one for. One for one yard and a touchdown touchdown. And then you've. You've done it.

[Jason Moore]

You got the tight end points that you streamed successfully.

[Mike Wright]

Let's start at the top. Rob Gronkowski, number one. However, consistency rank number two. I bet you're disappointed.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, Rob Gronkowski, man, you're embarrassed. That's embarrassing.

[Mike Wright]

In 14 games he, while he was on.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Oh.

[Mike Wright]

Wait. We need breaking news.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, we need breaking news.

[Mike Wright]

I'm going to have to find the button.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, stall. Breaking news. Rob Gronkowski is actually the number one inconsistency score.

[Mike Wright]

You ruined it.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, he was pissed.

[Mike Wright]

Well, that number two, he demanded a recount and he got it.

[Jason Moore]

Yes. Because earlier while we were just double checking all of the work, I realized that he was still showing up for a Week 17 score even though he did not have any snaps in the game. Should not have been took him out of that and he did end up number one.

[Mike Wright]

So congratulations, Gronk.

[Jason Moore]

Oh man, you're.

[Mike Wright]

We retract all those loser statements.

[Jason Moore]

Your trophy is in the mail. Yes, and rightfully so. I mean he dominant. He was dominant this year. It's funny because when you look at tight ends, there were. There were only five tight ends this season who had a bust rate under 40%. Meaning like that's five guys.

[Mike Wright]

This is why we said it's terrible.

[Jason Moore]

All you could have otherwise you're busting at least more than 40%. However, there were three guys, Gronk being one of them, that actually had a pretty low bust rate. Gronk only busted 23% of the time. So those games that really kind of hurt you, you are fine taking that less than a quarter of the time percentage chance to have a. And this is what's insane about gronk.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

A 54% chance at having one of those weeks that finishes basically as a top three over 15 fantasy points.

[Mike Wright]

We call that redonkulous.

[Jason Moore]

We call that regron.

[Mike Wright]

Regronculus.

[Jason Moore]

Yes, we got there. That is very Gronkulous. But to have a great week winning type performance more than half the time. That's why we were very bullish on Gronk coming into this season.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, for the price. Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

You could get him, you know, very late by comparison. So like this next year he'll be a late first round.

[Mike Wright]

He's going back in the first round. Yeah, exactly. He's dominant. And Robert Gronkowski, 57 first down receptions this season, most among tight ends in the NFL. So if you were up in that Scotty Fishbowl.

[Jason Moore]

Oh yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Where you got the point for first down. Gronk was nice.

[Jason Moore]

Well, kind of. He was nice. We had him right on our Scotty Fishbowl league and it was beautiful until we finished first in our league. Then we go to the playoffs and.

[Mike Wright]

He was a big dummy and he put that hit and he had to get a suspension.

[Jason Moore]

He got suspended for the week where then we go out and I'm sure everyone who had Gronk went out that week.

[Mike Wright]

So number two, Travis Kelsey. And Travis Kelsey, while he's number two in the fantasy finish, he was 0.9 points behind Gronk. So he was really 1B. Consistency rank however, number three. So not bad by any stretch. But he's not number two. He did not. He did not. Deuce. Deuce.

[Jason Moore]

No. You know what, what you need to realize though, one thing to keep in mind. So our consistency scores, they're. They're injury agnostic. Meaning it's only when you played, how were you? Because if you really didn't play that game, like for instance, that's why we take you know the week 17 away from Gronk, nobody started him in that week, so he didn't actually hurt you. You can make the argument that, well, sure he did because you had to find someone else. But Kelsey played 15 games whereas Gronk played 13 games. So 1A, 1B is not really the case. I would say he's, he was a firm second place here, but he was definitely good. Got off to a slower start this season. If you remember, you know, week one, he had a week that was disappointing. Every tight end out there had a disappointing week one. And then week three he had another bad week. So he was a guy that some people were able to acquire early on and really helped your season. From that point on, he was pretty much a stud. They utilized him in ways that we had been hoping and dreaming.

[Mike Wright]

Not just hoping, they utilized him in ways that you were pushing heavy in the last off season where his, he only had, what was it, four touchdowns in 2016, but his opportunities for scoring plays did not match the four touchdowns and you had, you were calling for a big time touchdown.

[Jason Moore]

I had gone back and watched every regression, every single one of the 10 zone anywhere, every single target and utilization that they had for kelsey inside the 10 zone. And it was a clear indicator that, look, he is used some of those things. He should have had probably three more touchdowns on fluke plays, down at the one type plays or just dropped a pass in the end zone. So while the narrative before the season was that Kelsey's great but he's not really a touchdown option, I think that completely has to go away. Not just based on this year, not just based on the fact that while he had a lot of touchdowns this year, but based on the year prior where he should have had more even with that utilization. Again, we kind of brought this up in the beginning. If Pat Mahomes takes over, maybe it's better, right? I would assume year one it's going to be worse.

[Mike Wright]

Travis Kelsey was tied for ninth with 20 red zone targets.

[Jason Moore]

I'll take that. And that and that's of receivers.

[Mike Wright]

I'm not talking about tight ends, I'm talking about receivers.

[Jason Moore]

That's great.

[Mike Wright]

So he was utilized. He was fantastic. Number three, number one in my heart. Mr. Zach. Zach Ertz consistency rank of number two. A fantastic breakout year. 74 for 824, eight touchdowns, 110 targets. Was good 79% of the time when he played great games, 21%, a bus rate of only 21%. So that's actually the lowest.

[Jason Moore]

That's the best out of all tight ends.

[Mike Wright]

Well, besides. Besides, it's gronk.

[Jason Moore]

Gronk was 23% after you recalculated the match. After the recalc, Gronk busted 23% of the time. The recalc, as we say in the industry.

[Mike Wright]

Totes McGoats, bro.

[Jason Moore]

No. And that's why I loved Zach Ertz coming into this year. And that's why I would rank him ahead of Kelsey. Because while Gronk can give you the asinine 54% of big blow up games, Kelsey's great. Ertz is great. They can both give you blow up games, but they don't do it at that level. It's Gronk on his own tier. And then from that point on. What I care about with tight ends if I'm going to pay capital is not your big blow up games. It's how often do you not suck? Because if I. If I'm paying capital.

[Mike Wright]

Interesting.

[Jason Moore]

If I'm paying capital for a tight end, I'm probably playing him every week. I'm not going to binge him in a bad matchup. I'm probably just going to, you know, play him. I don't want to roster two tight ends if I spent up on a tight end. And that's why I love Zach Ertz because his bus straight is so low. Because he's really a PPR guy. He's a possession receiver. And going forward with Carson Wentz in place there is. I love every single thing about Zach Ertz. I even think his name is fantastic. Do you know how many names of teams?

[Mike Wright]

Oh, pun names.

[Jason Moore]

Pun names can come from Zach Ertz. Yes.

[Mike Wright]

And they're all delightful.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Now, Zach ertz averaged about 59 receiving yards per game. Put him at third for tight ends. It was a great season. But where is Zachary? It's going to go in the draft. And add on top of that, you have some concerns for Carson Wentz returning from such a late season ACL tear. Will Zach Ertz be a love of your life coming into next season? Of course. Very early.

[Jason Moore]

Sure. I have no worries of. My worries for Wentz is the fantasy production he's going to lose from running the ball because it's so ridiculously valuable for quarterbacks when it shouldn't be. And that is just going to make him in the pocket more and look to his number one option, which is Zachary. So I've got no worries there in the slightest. My love affair I had with Zach Ertz this year was because he had every indication he could be a top five tight end. And he was going in the 8th, 9th, 10th round.

[Mike Wright]

He was free.

[Jason Moore]

He was free. And so that's why he was one of my three my guys this year. No, I mean he's going to be, he's going to. Him and Kelsey will both be around that third round is my guess based on what we've seen from Jordan Reed in the past. And there's no way I'm spending a third round pick on a tight end.

[Mike Wright]

That's what I was going to ask.

[Jason Moore]

These onesie positions, even though you talk about, well, if you didn't have one of these top guys, then you're bust over half the time. That's not the truth. If we're talking the truth. All the other guys, if you have, you know, Kyle Rudolph or Jack Doyle or Delaney Walker, like those aren't just plug in and play every single game guys. You do play the matchup, you're going to sit them in bad matchups, you're going to stream, you know, a Ben Watson when he's playing the Browns and have a great game. So I would rather just punt the whole position and stream next year. I hope that there is an arrow pointing up guy.

[Mike Wright]

I think there will be.

[Jason Moore]

There usually is in that 8, 9, 10 range. That's who I'll have my love affair with next year.

[Mike Wright]

Number four, Jimmy Graham. The consistent consistency. Rank of number five, 16 games, 57 receptions, 520 yards, 10 touchdowns, touchdown.

[Jason Moore]

Oh my goodness.

[Mike Wright]

That's what Jimmy Graham was all about.

[Jason Moore]

10 bailouts. Jimmy Graham's nickname should be Big Bank. Okay. He is, this is a big bank guy because he has received the bailouts this season. I look at his numbers and it's one of those things where it's like, man, he stinks. Except he was. He didn't hurt you. In fantasy, he helped you. In fantasy, he played.

[Mike Wright]

This is from our 25 Stats article. Jimmy Graham lined up for only 68% of his team's offensive snaps. 25 other tight ends in the league, some more playing time.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, he was, he was, he was.

[Mike Wright]

He was used when it, where it mattered.

[Jason Moore]

He was used in the red zone. He got the touchdowns and you were fine starting him. Most weeks he had a 38% bust rate. Again, one of the only five guys under the 40%. He Also, because of the touchdown numbers, almost 20% of the time he had a big blow up week and 50% of the time he had one of those good game. So you, you could rely on him this year. I don't believe you can rely on him going forward.

[Mike Wright]

Well, we don't, we don't know what.

[Jason Moore]

Team he's going to be on. If he goes back to the Saints, he'll be overdrafted. That's my belief. I think people will want it to be Jimmy Graham of old. And if you just watch the tape, he's not Jimmy Graham. He looks old, he looks slow, which is weird for him.

[Mike Wright]

Well, I mean, he was. To be fair for Jimmy Graham, the fact that he's even back coming off of that devastating injury, a tip of the cap to him for working his behind off, certainly to get back and be able to play. But a man of that stature, I mean, he's six, seven, big guy, 260.

[Jason Moore]

He's a ballplayer. He's got the box out skills and in the, in the red zone. I mean, I definitely do want him to go to a team. If he goes to the Saints, that's still great for Jimmy Graham because they'll use him in the red zone and he's already got a rapport with Drew Brees. But you're not going to get the yardage that you've had from him in the past where he was, he was a wide receiver. Remember the contract when he was a free agent and all the debates changed his Twitter to. Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

From tight end to pass catcher.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Because he didn't want to be franchised as a tight end and paid nothing when he is a valuable wide receiver. But you just look at the yards this year and you know, you look at the yards of the top receivers or top tight ends and they're all, you know, really good. 800 plus yards, 1,000 plus yards. And then you got Jimmy Graham 520 yards.

[Mike Wright]

You want to hear something incredible on this is the, the thought process. I'm sure out there is Jimmy Graham. I mean, he's number four, four tight end finish. He was good for your fantasy roster. I'm jumping a little ahead so we will come back. Was Kyle Rudolph good for fantasy rosters?

[Jason Moore]

Hmm.

[Mike Wright]

Don't look at the numbers. I want you to know in your heart of hearts, was Kyle Rudolph good for your fantasy roster?

[Jason Moore]

I would say comparatively to the masses. Yes.

[Mike Wright]

Because here's, here's Jimmy Graham's numbers once again. 57, 520 and 10. Here's Kyle Rudolph. Numbers 57, 532 and 8. There's two touchdowns separating these guys and people love Jimmy Graham and Kyle Rudolph, who finished seventh amongst tight ends. I think that the public consensus about Kyle Rudolph was that he was kind of a bust.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

For your team.

[Jason Moore]

Certainly. I agree with the notion of what you're saying. What's funny is if you look at how the touchdowns were.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, that's a difference. Kyle Rudolph didn't have as many explosive games.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, he never had those games where he finished, you know. Oh, he had multiple weeks where he's like the number one tight end because he had the multi touchdown games. You know, give him two more. What's funny is you give him two more and probably he did have a couple of those games. So it's an interesting thing to point out. Who would you rather have next year, Jimmy Graham or Kyle Rudolph? Let's say Jimmy Graham stays with.

[Mike Wright]

Stays with Seattle.

[Jason Moore]

Stays with Seattle. So you've got apples to apples.

[Mike Wright]

Who's the quarterback for Minnesota?

[Jason Moore]

Case Keenum? Same. Same as this year. Everything the same next year. Because I would draft Kyle Rudolph.

[Mike Wright]

Who's drafted later.

[Jason Moore]

Well, because it's going to be Kyle Rudolph. Kyle Rudolph would without a doubt be drafted later. He's not thought of as highly. He doesn't have the name that Jimmy Graham has. That's why I would, I would rather go with the guy later.

[Mike Wright]

I completely agree. Back to number five, rookie sensation Evan Angrem. Actually consistency ranked number four in 15 games. Put up 64 receptions, 722 yards, six touchdowns. He did have a nice goose game that helped me lose to Andy Holloway in the Dynasty League.

[Jason Moore]

You have a little bit of hatred in your heart.

[Mike Wright]

And then the final game in the championship week when I played yet again against Andy Holloway and he had an unfortunate rib injury. So the numbers for Evan Ingram definitely could have been much better. But here's the thing. 64 receptions on 115 targets.

[Jason Moore]

Those numbers are bad. The. Well, the 115 targets.

[Mike Wright]

I love the targets.

[Jason Moore]

Is incredibly good. But yes, the catch rate, not that great. And like we said earlier, he had 115 targets. But there was no Odell Beckham Jr. There was no Brandon Marshall who assigned to be that number two for a lot of it. There was no Sterling Shepard. So he became the de facto one. And a lot of that will be going away. And that's to say nothing of a possible quarterback change. However, what you did see from Evan Ingram this year was that he has the explosive playmaking speed that can do it on his own. You know, he could take that screen game and do what very few tight ends can do. And it. And it helped fantasy owners. You could argue that Evan Ingram was more valuable than some. You know, if you want to take a look at cost in draft versus.

[Mike Wright]

Ingram was a waiver wire pickup.

[Jason Moore]

Exactly. Versus A Travis Kelsey who finished better. There were only three players according to our metrics at the tight end position who finished well above average of the top 12. Well above average in all three categories. Big games, good games and not having bus games. Evan Ingram is one of those three. So while you might remember the playoff.

[Mike Wright]

Week, the championship, Evan Ingram was great for my team.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, he was amazing. He was fantastic. And I don't think they're going to go away from Evan Ingram just because they have other targets. You could always make the argument that those other targets help the offense produce more because the New York Giants as a whole, they were not the offense they can be. If they have some of their other.

[Mike Wright]

Weapons, they vote to back them. And I just wanted to give people some context. So that was a catch rate of 55.7% for Evan Ingram. Zach Ertz 67.3. Travis Kelce 68%. Even Jimmy Graham 59.4.

[Jason Moore]

Here's the real question, is Eric Ebron. Mr. Hold on Mr. Drop it like it's hot Dropski.

[Mike Wright]

I'm pulling it up right now because what's crazy with Eric Ebron 61.6 for Eric Ebron. That's what I mean.

[Jason Moore]

Like I, it was, there were a lot of places, I mean you could say whatever you want about the quality of the targets coming from Eli Manning, but you watch the games, there were a lot of. He had balls, he should have caught.

[Mike Wright]

He had some drop problems.

[Jason Moore]

Rookie. Yes. So rookie tight ends, I mean like we said earlier, he had the best rookie tight end game in recent history and you can't just throw that out.

[Mike Wright]

Number six on this list, Delaney Walker. Consistency rank of seven. He played the whole season 74 for 807 and three touchdowns. He had 111 targets. The problem with Delaney Walker and this is why, why we didn't want to draft Delaney Walker is because in drafts he was going as right. Really right. To be fair, where he finished it was about that tight end six but it's a. The price you had to pay for him in the draft and you got zero percent of great games. He was.

[Jason Moore]

Which is exactly what you'll get next year and probably what you got the previous year. He's not a big take a game over blow up type of guy.

[Mike Wright]

Not anymore. Not anymore. He was good 50% of the time. However, he busted 44% of the time. And I guess and also to be fair for Delaney Walker, his quarterback was bad this year. Marcus Mariota regressed horrifically. So hopefully things get turned around next year. Maybe Jason's not so bullish with the hire of Mike Vrabel.

[Jason Moore]

Well, the offensive coordinator is what's going to matter but Mike Vrabel's not going to touch the offense. So that's, that's tbd.

[Mike Wright]

But Delaney Walker. Do you have any more notes on Walker?

[Jason Moore]

He's just, he's, he's getting, he's getting up there in age Delaney and Jonas Smith is a tight end rookie this year behind him who came in very, had a pretty.

[Mike Wright]

Didn't he tear his MCL right at the end of the playoffs?

[Jason Moore]

He did have a late season injury. He's supposed to be ready by the beginning of the year. But it just, it's one of those things where when you look at, you know, the contract and the future, Delaney Walker got much worse late in the season because he was dealing with injuries as well. Three of his last four games.

[Mike Wright]

That's true, he was.

[Jason Moore]

Three of his last four games were busts. And you know, just so you know, that's when the fantasy playoffs were. I don't think many people want a fantasy championship with Delaney Walker on their team even if he helped get you to the playoffs. This is, this is where if you're going to be spending a seventh round pick, you know, a sixth round pick on a tight end who will finish exactly where you're drafting him to finish. I would rather stream the position. This is, we said before the, before the show there were five good tight ends. Everyone else was garbage.

[Mike Wright]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

And then we had this like, well, you don't think Delaney Walker was garbage and maybe that's, he wasn't garbage but he wasn't what you needed to win a championship. And that's all I care about. You can win a championship easier with streaming the matchups I feel like and getting those big blow up games and having a more solid running back, wide receiver core because that's where you used your draft picks than using that sixth, seventh round on Delaney Walker and being a guy that's going to make the playoffs.

[Mike Wright]

Delaney Walker drafting Lainey Walker is like grabbing takeout from a restaurant that's about 25 minutes from your home.

[Jason Moore]

The food, it might, it might be good if you can go there when.

[Mike Wright]

You get home after it just sitting in the box steaming itself in the styrofoam holders. You get home, you go, it's fine, it's fine. Yeah, number seven. We kind of talked about them already but Kyle Rudolph consistency. Rank of number nine. Kyle Rudolph and Jimmy Graham season were very similar. Even Kyle Rudolph had 14 receptions on plays in the red zone. We talked about Jimmy Graham being utilized there for a 14 receptions in the red zone. That's absolutely. That's ridiculous. That's tied with Alvin Camara.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

For red zone completions. So I don't think there's. We don't really need to focus much more on Kyle Rudolph. Number eight, the man with the baby hands.

[Jason Moore]

That's so not fair to him. But it is his nickname according to this show.

[Mike Wright]

It may not be fair, but it's the right thing to do. Jack Doyle.

[Jason Moore]

Hold on to the ball, Jack.

[Mike Wright]

He does. This is what happens when you have a podcast and a microphone and you can get in and say things when you're very upset with a person.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Why don't you remind people while he was nicknamed, why he was nicknamed Baby Hands?

[Mike Wright]

Because you and I were playing head to head. And I think that the game, it was a Monday night game, if I recall correctly, and had come down to you had the Tennessee Titans defense, which.

[Jason Moore]

You never want to have your hopes.

[Mike Wright]

In, versus the Colts. And this was the game where Jack Doyle kept fumbling and kept dropping passes. I mean, he was great all season long, but this one, when the national.

[Jason Moore]

Spotlight was on, my Tennessee Titans kept saying, give me that ball.

[Mike Wright]

My full attention was on Jack Doyle. I saw the truth. I saw those baby hands.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. They were just too tiny to hold onto that ball.

[Mike Wright]

Too tiny and too weak. However, he did finish with the second most receptions for a tight end. He had 80 receptions. It was a solid year for Jack Doyle.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. What's. What we have. What's interesting here is he did this all without Andrew Luck. Right. He was, you know, one of those late. Like when you. Here it is. Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Here's your late round arrow pointing up guy. It's Jack Doyle.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. He'll be drafted in that 8th, 9th, 10th round.

[Mike Wright]

I'll be happy to take him.

[Jason Moore]

I will as well. Especially if Luck is actually back. I mean, you know, you can utilize him in a number of ways and they have always been kind of that too tight end team, you know, whether it was Eric Swope or. Who's the guy that went to the Fleener? No. Well, when it was Fleener.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, Dwayne Allen.

[Jason Moore]

Dwayne Allen. Thank you. But this year it became the Jack Doyle show, maybe by injury or whatnot, but you're going to have a new offensive coordinator here. And it looks like, I mean, it's too early to tell, but it looks like it's going to be probably McDaniels. And I think you're going to have a good offense here that utilizes the tight end.

[Mike Wright]

I'm putting my. I've claimed him.

[Jason Moore]

You can't claim him this early.

[Mike Wright]

Yes, I can. No, Brooks, it's on the tape. Write it down. Jack Duo is my guy.

[Jason Moore]

If you claim him this early, Mike, I will force you to stick with that. Even if he's. If everything goes wrong, they go and they sign a big tight end, I'm going to say nope. You said he's your guy. Are you sticking to that yet? Are you?

[Mike Wright]

I do what I want, Jason.

[Jason Moore]

All right. So how was Jack Doyle this year?

[Mike Wright]

I mean, so 80 receptions, 690 yards, four touchdowns. He had 107 targets. He was great only 7% of the time, but he was good. 40%. A bus rate of 40%. So he's. We're getting more into the line of streamer. Exactly. A streamer. But putting up similar production to. To the guys just ahead of him and Delaney Walker and Kyle Rudolph. Jack Doyle, he was a start of the week countless times on this show because you could pick him up. He was on the waiver wire frequently. People getting mad at them, baby hands. But then he just came through. When it was a good spot for Jack Doyle, you felt like he could come through and he would come through.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. I mean, if you look at his game log and you try to remind yourself of. Of people really were up on Jack Doyle going into the draft, and he disappointed people and got dropped everywhere because three of his first four weeks were atrocious.

[Mike Wright]

Where you had week one with. Who played quarterback for the Colts in week one? I have. I can't even remember his name.

[Jason Moore]

Is it Tolzine?

[Mike Wright]

Yes, Scott Tolzine. Thank you.

[Jason Moore]

There you go. And then you had the quarterback change, and you're trying to figure that out. You know, I mean, put it this way. His first four weeks before their buy, he was averaging five fantasy points a game. Oh, dominant and half point. So, yeah, he was on waivers from that point on. You know, he averaged 9.6 fantasy points a game and was much better once you got that rapport established. He still, though, had those games that were frustrating where he would disappear. And sometimes those games were games where you go, it looks like it should be his game. But I put almost all of that on the fact that the Colts were hapless offense. And Jacoby Brissette, you know, you had a game plan where it seemed like this week it's either Jack Doyle that I'm going to look to first, second and third, or it's Ty Hilton I'm going to look to first, second and third. It was more often Doyle than Ty Hilton. But if Luck comes back, he's going to be able to utilize him. He's a good, he's a good, real life receiving tight end.

[Mike Wright]

He's a good football player. Not the most over athletic guy, but.

[Jason Moore]

You don't want to be over athletic. If you're over athletic, you'll outrun that ball. That's a fair point.

[Mike Wright]

Under throw everything somehow. Number nine on this list is Cameron Braith and he has a consistency rank of number 10. This is, this is blowing my mind right now because I have the stink, the stink of week seven through 12. That's all I remember.

[Jason Moore]

No, no, no, you don't need week seven through 12. You have the stink from week one through 17 because he wasn't good.

[Mike Wright]

Okay, how do we get these numbers?

[Jason Moore]

But that's, that's real.

[Mike Wright]

600 yards and six touchdowns.

[Jason Moore]

This is the truth of tight ends this year. He was, he was a top 10 tight end, top 10 consistency and he was awful 56% of the time. More than half the time he busted. Meaning he was so bad.

[Mike Wright]

He was great 25% of the time.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, he was, I mean, he was a real boom bust type of player. He had a quarter of his games that were game winners. He had half of his games more than that were game losers. And then he was, you know, okay, the rest. But that's a top 10 tight end in this landscape. It's, you know, if you want to make the argument that you should go hard in the paint after Zach Ertz or Travis Kelce or Gronk camera breaks your argument. You say, I don't want to deal with a top 10 tight end. I need a top three tight end or I can't handle it. I'll grant you that. That's understandable.

[Mike Wright]

Weeks one through seven, I get week one, I guess is bad, but I'm just, I'm including that because that's when the run really happened. He was excellent.

[Jason Moore]

Yes. I mean, he had a stretch early on in the season before Jameis Winston went down. Cameron averaging almost 12 fantasy points.

[Mike Wright]

Yes, yes. Right around there is when we had Ryan Fitzpatrick come in and Cameron Brait was removed from the game plan and then just couldn't seem to even get things going back when Jamis appeared or when Jameis came back from the shoulder injury. Cameron Brait will be interesting next season.

[Jason Moore]

He averaged almost 12 fantasy points a game those first seven weeks. You want to guess what he averaged from week 8 through 17? And keep in mind, keep in mind, he played in every single one of those games.

[Mike Wright]

I'm going to go three points a game.

[Jason Moore]

Close 4.7.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, that's very close.

[Jason Moore]

So, so close. Also known as top 10 tight end. I mean, this is the truth of the landscape. This is why we don't want you to go away thinking, oh, man, I have to get one of those top three tight ends because that's not the strategy that has to win. What we want you to go away with is thinking, I want to stream the position. Because you can grab Cameron bray, a top 10 tight end, off of waivers all throughout the year. People are not holding on to Cameron Brait. You could grab him in most leagues. You can grab Jack Doyle off of waivers throughout the season. He puts up two bad games in a row, he'll be on waivers. You could grab him. You can grab a Jason Whitner, Benjamin Watson or Eric Ebron or Jared Cook all through the year. And you stream the matchups, and I promise you now, when you stream these matchups, you're not getting Grunk, you're not getting Zach Ertz, and you're not getting Kelsey, but you're probably getting what's right after that. You're probably getting about what would equate to the fourth best tight end or the fifth best tight end.

[Mike Wright]

If you go for that five, six.

[Jason Moore]

If you play that matchup versus grabbing a guy that's going to finish as the eighth or ninth or tenth best tight end and be so wickedly bad that he ruins your fantasy season.

[Mike Wright]

Number 10, Jason Whitten, a consistency rank of only 14, was great. 13% of the time. Good 25% of the time. Busted half, 50, 50% of the time. He averaged just 8.9 yards per reception on 87 targets. That puts him at fifth worst. That's from our. That's a hot stat there for Jason Whitten. He was. He was tough to gauge because at the beginning of the season it seemed like Jason Whitten was a. He was like the tight end, too, forever.

[Jason Moore]

Well, that was because his first two weeks were really good. Those first two weeks, he scored 15.4 and 20.7 and it was like, oh, man, he's going to be utilized very well from that point. From week three through week 11, he averaged 4.9 points. So. And that was still while Dak was playing well. That wasn't he had down weeks because Dak had down weeks thing. Jason Whitten, I mean, everybody we name from here on out, it's the exact same story. It's. Yeah. You finished as a top 12 tight end. You, if you played him week in and week out, you're not even making the playoffs. You can't start these middling guys week in, week out. You have to play matchups. That's why leagues that, you know that put a cap on, waiver moves, things like that. Oh, that's just terrible. In those leagues. If you should go after Gronk or Elsie or Ertz.

[Mike Wright]

Elsie from Frozen, the K is silent.

[Jason Moore]

Travis. Elsie.

[Mike Wright]

We are. We've already gone pretty long, but dad's gone. I don't really care about that. But the couple go more guys I want to highlight here. Hunter Henry finished as a tight end 14. But Jason is claiming I am. Jason is claiming that Hunter Henry was the sixth most consistent tight end. Jason, are you standing by this claim?

[Jason Moore]

I stand by this claim. Here's why. Because you might go, well, wait, he was very inconsistent. You remember his Nick, what's his nickname? Mike Goose. The Goose. Why is his nickname the Goose?

[Mike Wright]

Because he put up one in week three, Week one, when I needed one reception for five yards from Hunter Henry to win my matchup and he got zero.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, it was, it was definitely frustrating. I got Wonka. But here's why he was the sixth most consistent tight end. First, because tight ends suck. Second, because it doesn't matter for our, for what we're looking at at consistency. It doesn't matter if you scored four points or zero points. If you put up a crap game, it's. It's a crap game. You're going to hurt him. Now, obviously I'd rather have four more points on my roster than zero, so you can argue with that. But when we're just looking at is this guy good? How often is he good? How often did he help my team? 50% of his games. He was a good tight end. He finished the week half those times as basically what amounts to being a good play and helping you. He also had, you know, a game where he helped win the week for you going forward. Gates is only older. I like Hunter Henry. Definitely worth pointing him out.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, he could be one of those late round arrow guys.

[Jason Moore]

Is people calling it now Brooks? That's my guy.

[Mike Wright]

Whoa. Nice. Very nice. But as people return to fantasy football and they see Hunter Henry 14th, man, he went from eight touchdowns to four.

[Jason Moore]

I just hope Antonio Gates comes back, which he's saying he wants to solely so that. So that Hunter Henry continues to go late in drafts.

[Mike Wright]

The last guy I want to point out here, good friend of the show. Rule 86.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, I didn't know.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, who do you.

[Jason Moore]

I thought you were going. Good friend of the show, Jason Moore. Best buddy, championship runner.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, Charles Clay.

[Jason Moore]

Clay, sure.

[Mike Wright]

We can point out Charles Clay. He was. Because he should be talked about. 18th ranked in for fantasy as a tight end. Consistency. Ranked though, of 12. He started the year hot.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I mean, hot. The reality with Charles Clay is he had. He only played 13 games, and there was a game in there without Tyrod Taylor, which was, you know, Tyrod and Charles Clay had that connection. So we'll have to see if Tyrod comes back. I doubt it. But if he.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, no, no. Tyrod Taylor will not be a Buffalo Bill. But Charles Clay was good 38% of the time. Busted 54%. He's done.

[Jason Moore]

I mean, I love Charles Clay, but he's done. His career's over. All right.

[Mike Wright]

I just wanted to point out Jordan Reed. It was a.

[Jason Moore]

It was bad.

[Mike Wright]

It was a bad year for Jordan Reed.

[Jason Moore]

You're going to need to coin a new word. Okay. Because if, you know, stomped, trump, trompled, whatever it is.

[Mike Wright]

We coined two words today saying that.

[Jason Moore]

Jordan Reed's year was bad.

[Mike Wright]

It was read diculous. Oh, I love it. I'm loving every minute of it.

[Jason Moore]

It was ridiculous. There it is. They can't all be winners, but some of them.

[Mike Wright]

Consistency rate of 24. 6 games. You know the story of Jordan Reed. He was great 17% of the time. Good 17% of the time. But he was. He busted 67% of the time.

[Jason Moore]

And that's. That. That is, again, that's taking out the games he missed. We're just talking about the games he played in and. Which were only six games. But in six games, you essentially had, what, four outright busts. One of them that wasn't a bust was still only 7.8 points. He was so bad that I think you've got to amend the rule. In fact, I would go so far as say the rule is dead. Oh, Kirk Cousins is probably gone. There's change in the air. You can't rely on him. And if Jordan Reed is playing, I don't think he's an automatic start.

[Mike Wright]

Possibly he. The rule sort of worked because you can take a look back. He only played six games. But in those six games, he was also hurt for quite a few of them. He only played more than 70% of snaps in three games.

[Jason Moore]

Yes. Here's a, here's the deal.

[Mike Wright]

The rule and in those games he got at least one red zone target.

[Jason Moore]

He needs. The rule needs at least to be amended to where if Jordan Reed is healthy, you start him instead of just.

[Mike Wright]

If he's playing, you play him.

[Jason Moore]

If he's playing, you start him. No, I can't get behind that. If Jordan Reed is healthy, you start him and that means you don't start Jordan Reed.

[Mike Wright]

I.

[Jason Moore]

At this point, Jordan Reed's not going.

[Mike Wright]

To be ever healthy at this point. Where do you think people will be willing to draft Jordan Reed?

[Jason Moore]

I think that Jordan Reed will go extremely late and honestly at that point he's a value.

[Mike Wright]

I'll be very happy to.

[Jason Moore]

If you can get Jordan reed in the 8th, 9th, 10th round. I mean Jordan Reed, Hunter Henry, Jack Doyle, if those guys are in those double digit rounds, whoever falls to the double digit rounds, if that happens, let's.

[Mike Wright]

Say Jordan Reed is going after the 10th, I will be. I'll draft two tight ends in that situation, I will draft someone like Jack Doyle and Jordan Reed for the chance.

[Jason Moore]

That's the grossest thing you've ever said.

[Mike Wright]

That's fine.

[Jason Moore]

You just don't need to. Because if you're drafting two tight ends that late, just let the other one be on the waivers and pick them up. If Jordan Reed sucks.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, but I, but I think that's. I want that security blanket of that. I think that these guys, you know, Jack Doyle, guys like that, they can be good. Maybe they'll be available on the waiver wire, but I don't know. I think that it's.

[Jason Moore]

Well, we'll have these debates when we get into the tight end episodes. Looking forward, once we. Everything in free agency and the draft and coaching changes are done, we start making those 2018 rankings, there will be many an interesting conversation at tight end because if there's anything that you need to learn about the truth of tight end here, it's that while the position sucks, that means how you draft the position matters even more.

[Mike Wright]

Sure.

[Jason Moore]

Because if you're the guy out there that's going to be drafting Delaney Walker and Cameron Brait and Jason Whitten, you know you failed, you failed in the draft. I believe in. So we got to try to get it right next year for tight ends and that's what will aim to do.

[Mike Wright]

So there it is, ladies and gentlemen, the second longest show besides the Megalodon in the history of the fantasy footballers. Thank you so much for supporting the show. Foot clan. We love you draft.com ballers. Play some best ball. Goodbye.

[Jason Moore]

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy Footballers Podcast. Join our fantasy football community on jointhefoot.com and follow us on Twitter the FFballers.