Fantasy Football Podcast 2015 - Top 10 TE, TE Sleepers, News, Mailbag

Summary

Fantasy Footballers Podcast 2015 - Top 10 TE, TE Sleepers, News, Mailbag
Release Date: April 9, 2015
Hosts: Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, Mike "The Fantasy Hitman" Wright

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Introduction

The Fantasy Footballers kicked off the episode with a light-hearted conversation about Mike Wright's chaotic morning, setting an engaging and relatable tone for the show. The focus of the day was tight ends, a crucial position in fantasy football.

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News and Notes

Le'Veon Bell's Suspension: The hosts discussed the recent updates on Le'Veon Bell's suspension. Initially, it was expected he would miss two games, but the suspension was extended to three games.

• Andy Holloway (03:35): "He is appealing, but does this... he drops for me."
• Mike Wright (04:05): "But how far does he drop?"

Steven Ridley's Jets Deal: Steven Ridley signed a one-year deal with the New York Jets, sparking discussions on his potential fantasy impact.

• Jason Moore (06:22): "What better spot would you rather him have."
• Andy Holloway (07:24): "If that happens, I am very interested in Ridley."

Chris Ivory's Situation: Rumors emerged that Chris Ivory might be on thin ice with the Atlanta regime, potentially altering his fantasy value.

• Mike Wright (07:03): "They might be souring on him."
• Andy Holloway (07:10): "Or is he in the doghouse."

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Top 10 Tight Ends

The trio delved deep into their early rankings of the top 10 tight ends for the season, providing insightful analysis and differing opinions.

1. #10: Kobe Fleener

   • Jason Moore (08:01): "I have him ridiculously high."
   • Andy Holloway (08:05): "Kobe Fleener... you have some things to talk about with him."
   • Discussion Points: Fleener's role in a two-tight end set with the Colts, his drop rate issues, and potential upside with new teammates like Andre Johnson.

2. #9: Jordan Cameron

   • Mike Wright (12:10): "It's all about health for him."
   • Andy Holloway (12:19): "He's a very athletic guy. He's got good hands."
   • Discussion Points: Cameron's athleticism, his role with new quarterback Ryan Tannehill, and his target potential if he remains healthy.

3. #8: Jason Whitten

   • Andy Holloway (16:23): "A reliable tight end with the third lowest drop rate."
   • Jason Moore (16:30): "Do you think he's a Hall of Famer?"
   • Mike Wright (17:35): "He never had that super sexy season until last year."
   • Discussion Points: Whitten's consistency, reliability, and potential for steady production despite lower touchdown numbers.

4. #7: Zach Ertz

   • Andy Holloway (19:02): "Zach Ertz is a guy that actually I have him at 900 yards this year."
   • Mike Wright (20:22): "He’s a liability in pass protection."
   • Discussion Points: Ertz's target volume, pass-blocking concerns, and potential draft value due to his offensive role.

5. #6: Antonio Gates

   • Mike Wright (23:05): "Antonio Gates keeps doing it."
   • Jason Moore (23:50): "He's in the hall of Fame for sure."
   • Discussion Points: Gates' high touchdown potential, his positional advantage, and his status as a fantasy Hall of Famer.

6. #5: Martellus Bennett

   • Jason Moore (25:59): "Mark Tressman leaving and offense changing."
   • Mike Wright (26:12): "He averaged 60 receptions the last few years."
   • Discussion Points: Bennett's target trends, changes in his offensive environment, and his reliability despite potential target reductions.

7. #4: Greg Olsen

   • Mike Wright (27:35): "He had a great bounce back year."
   • Jason Moore (28:54): "He's a rookie watch."
   • Andy Holloway (28:01): "Older guy with potential red flags."
   • Discussion Points: Olsen's steady performance, concerns about age and contract, and his role as a reliable fantasy asset.

8. #3: Jimmy Graham

   • Andy Holloway (31:33): "He's a game-changing tight end for your fantasy team."
   • Mike Wright (33:46): "He has a 66% catch rate from Drew Brees."
   • Jason Moore (32:24): "He will catch 70 balls, 1,000 yards, and 10 touchdowns."
   • Discussion Points: Graham's transition to Seattle, target consistency, and comparison to his time in New Orleans.

9. #2: Travis Kelce

   • Andy Holloway (39:22): "84 receptions for 1100 yards and eight touchdowns."
   • Mike Wright (40:11): "He forces 17 missed tackles."
   • Jason Moore (41:30): "He will finish right where Jimmy Graham finishes."
   • Discussion Points: Kelce's athleticism, snap count improvement, and his value as an upside tight end.

10. #1: Rob Gronkowski

    • Andy Holloway (45:44): "Gronk... making him the true and only game-changing tight end."
    • Mike Wright (46:06): "The single largest positional advantage in fantasy football."
    • Jason Moore (46:38): "Where do you draft him?"
    • Discussion Points: Gronkowski's unparalleled fantasy value, health concerns, and strategic draft positioning to maximize his positional advantage.

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Mailbag

Handling Non-Responsive League Members: Ben S. from Ben's Creek asked about managing active league members who are unresponsive during the offseason.

• Andy Holloway (50:22): Emphasized the importance of active participation in dynasty leagues.
• Jason Moore (50:23): Suggested implementing league rules or voting to enforce participation.
• Mike Wright (51:34): Highlighted the need for members to at least respond, maintaining league integrity.

Keeper League Trade Decision: Dawson from the creek inquired about choosing between trading Martavis Bryant for higher second-round picks.

• Balancing Value: Hosts debated the potential of Martavis Bryant versus acquiring multiple picks, concluding a preference for Bryant's proven ability and upside.
• Mike Wright (53:33): Favored Bryant's potential to become a key player similar to Mike Wallace.
• Jason Moore (53:49): Supported drafting Bryant due to his established ability and impact potential.

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Listener Reviews

The hosts shared a positive review from "Dat Fantasy Dude," praising their mix of comedy and football analysis.

• Dat Fantasy Dude's Review (54:46):
  "These dudes know their stuff. We gotta just change the name of a podcast... Andy, Jason and Mike are a mix of comedians slash football analysts. And it's refreshing to get some new blood in the football podcast world."

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Closing Remarks

The Fantasy Footballers wrapped up by teasing upcoming content, including mock drafts, team previews, and insights into the NFL draft. They encouraged listeners to leave reviews and stay engaged with their growing community.

• Mike Wright (56:30): Joked about sharing his viral jiu-jitsu photo.
• Jason Moore (56:41): Highlighted the show's excitement and strong opinions.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jason Moore (08:01): "I have him ridiculously high."
• Mike Wright (20:22): "He’s a liability in pass protection."
• Andy Holloway (31:33): "He’s our top three tight end for all of us."
• Jason Moore (41:30): "He will finish right where Jimmy Graham finishes."
• Mike Wright (46:06): "The single largest positional advantage in fantasy football."

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This episode provided a comprehensive analysis of tight ends for the 2015 fantasy football season, blending statistical insights with strategic advice. The hosts' dynamic discussions and differing viewpoints offered listeners a well-rounded perspective on drafting and managing tight ends, ensuring they are equipped to make informed decisions for their fantasy teams.

Transcript

[Mike Wright]

Foreign.

[Jason Moore]

Fantasy Footballers Podcast with your hosts, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike Wright.

[Andy Holloway]

Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers. It is Thursday, April 9, and we are back at it. This is Andy, joined by Jason and Mike.

[Mike Wright]

Hello.

[Andy Holloway]

And we're talking tight ends today.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, tight ends.

[Andy Holloway]

Who doesn't love a good tight end? How you guys doing this morning?

[Jason Moore]

Pretty good. Pretty good.

[Mike Wright]

So here's. Here's how my morning has gone so far.

[Andy Holloway]

Not well. Well, well, it's.

[Mike Wright]

It's been a. One of those weird rush mornings where when you have to be somewhere on time, everything just goes wrong. So. So I. I entered into my first ever Jiu Jitsu class. Now, let me have you posted that.

[Andy Holloway]

Picture to our Facebook because. No, I need to do it.

[Mike Wright]

So after talking about it, I will do that. And just so you know, I'm 32, I'm not athletic, and I'm out of shape, and I went into. And you have a lot of a jujitsu class and. Hold on, hold on.

[Jason Moore]

Breaking news.

[Mike Wright]

I cannot fight. So are you feeling that now? So I spent an hour getting beat up, and my body is broken. So cut to today. I cannot move very well. And we get the daughter.

[Jason Moore]

The daughter.

[Mike Wright]

I got to take her to school. She's running behind. I'm out of coffee. We're running behind. So I don't get breakfast, right?

[Andy Holloway]

I don't know if we want you on here.

[Mike Wright]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. So I get her to school. She gets to school, she forgot the library book. Complete meltdown in the parking lot, Mike. And I don't have time. Like, today. Today is the one day I don't have time to bring the book. I get home, I got to rush the son to school, and I end up. I end up in a coffee shop. Now, this is my nightmare because I drink coffee every morning, but I know nothing about coffee. I just pop my little K cup in, and I put my creamer in. So I get in the coffee shop, and the word here's here's ultimate nightmare for me. Coffee shop, no line. So I go to the front. I have.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, so you don't even know what you want.

[Mike Wright]

I have no idea what I'm doing in a coffee shop. I can't believe. And I panic, order some vanilla caramel latte. So instead of just a normal coffee, I've consumed a day's worth of calories in my coffee.

[Andy Holloway]

Really good for jets, too.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. And I have that tonight.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, you're going back.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, that's the plan.

[Jason Moore]

Now, to clarify, Mike, you're actually Doing submission wrestling. You don't have a gi.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, look at that. Well, they, they call it no Gi Jiu Jitsu. All right, but so that, that's how my, my morning has gone. I am loaded with sugar.

[Andy Holloway]

I say you're caffeinated for the show.

[Mike Wright]

And like my hands are vibrating from all the sugar I consumed.

[Jason Moore]

Let's do it.

[Andy Holloway]

Wow. Jason doesn't need a vanilla latte to get excited here. Yes. Welcome to the show. We're talking tight ends today. We're going to go through some news and notes. There are a couple big pieces of news that dropped. Going to answer some questions in the mailbag. If you have a question, you can email us mailthefantasyfootballers.com and we try to work those into the show every single episode. You can visit us on the [e-mail] and you can follow us on twitterballers. Subscribe to us on itunes.

[Mike Wright]

Yes, please.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, drop us a review. We really appreciate it. So let's get into it today.

[Jason Moore]

News and notes from around the league.

[Andy Holloway]

Alright, our first bit of news is something we've been speculating on for a while. Oh, it is a little bit sad here we've got Le'Veon Bell LeGarrett Blunt's suspension dropped earlier in the week. One game for LeGerrett Blount and now Le'Veon Bell's just dropped and he got three games.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, we were all really hoping for two.

[Andy Holloway]

He is appealing, but does this. I mean, if he sticks with three. He drops for me. He drops for me. Yeah, because he was my number one.

[Mike Wright]

But how far does he drop?

[Andy Holloway]

He does not drop out of my top five at all. And from what I'm right now, he only drops down a spot. Oh, I looked at him.

[Mike Wright]

Interesting.

[Andy Holloway]

I know most people consider my number my new number one bold. Because I have Arian Foster up there.

[Mike Wright]

Just because of health, not because of talent or opportunity.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, yeah. So he drops behind Arian Foster for me right now. I, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a game off though, on that appeal and he ends up at that two games we all expected.

[Mike Wright]

But I think it'll stick with three.

[Andy Holloway]

You know, just like that's troublesome. It's like four, you know, to drop him. Two people probably weren't dropping him very much. Three. That's gonna be a tough decision for people because three games is. It's a lot.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. And for the people then. So you get, you get Le'Veon a little bit later, which might be exciting if you're in the first round, but now you know that you're going to have to spend maybe a sixth on D'Angelo Williams.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, and D Will might even go, you know, he's going to give you three games of.

[Jason Moore]

That's what I mean, quarter of your fantasy season.

[Andy Holloway]

So he's looking for D Will in those later rounds for sure.

[Mike Wright]

Which, so that, that's obnoxious.

[Andy Holloway]

So how far does he drop for you, Jason? Does he drop?

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, he drops. He drops because in ppr I've got him number one. I'd rather have Eddie Lacy over him, without a doubt. I, you know, I don't know exactly where he drops yet. I think he, I'm looking at guys, you know, the question of would I rather have jamal Charles or Le'Veon Bell? That's really, really tough to me. And I could say go with either one, you know, I mean, I, at that point, you go with who you want to watch. I like Jamal Charles. I would put Jamal Charles.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, you're not going to get to watch Bell for three games.

[Jason Moore]

Right.

[Mike Wright]

But the thing to remember is even though the fantasy season is short, let's say you take Bell and you're just prepping for when he gets back. You start Owen three, you're not out at zero three, you can still come back and with Bell on your team, who will in most of our number one. He then shoots up to the number one running back that you're going to make a late season charge. And as long as you make the playoffs with that team, people are going to be afraid of you.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Speaking of not the number one running back, Steven Ridley signed a one year deal with the New York Jets.

[Jason Moore]

I heard last week or the week before you were saying that you really didn't like that spot for him. And I was curious about that because when he was visiting, I thought that would be a pretty good spot for him to land. They're going to be a, you know, a team that wants to run. I mean, for him. I'm not saying like for fantasy, like, oh, he's going to be someone, you know, to draft high. But I'm just thinking that's what, what better spot would you rather him have.

[Mike Wright]

Landed just somewhere where he's going to get some more? Because I like Steven Ridley and I think him on a one year deal, trying to prove his worth, I think he could have had some good fantasy value.

[Andy Holloway]

San Diego.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, that would have been perfect. I, I saw one note though, Atlanta, that maybe this Is just all rumors, but apparently Chris Ivory is on thin ice with the new regime.

[Andy Holloway]

I saw that as well. Yeah. They might be souring on him, which changes everything if Ivory's not in the mix or not.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Or is in the doghouse.

[Mike Wright]

A just another. The final note, I guess, on Ridley is he picked the jets because of Changailey's system is what we're hearing. So maybe Iver gets the boot and Ridley takes over. If that happens. I am very interested in Ridley.

[Andy Holloway]

Any other news and notes you guys want to mention?

[Mike Wright]

I still cannot fight.

[Andy Holloway]

You still cannot fight.

[Jason Moore]

Tight ends.

[Andy Holloway]

That's right. We're going through our top 10 tight ends this morning. Early rankings. Very early rankings.

[Mike Wright]

That's a gym.

[Andy Holloway]

Top 10 tight ends.

[Mike Wright]

Top 10 tight ends.

[Jason Moore]

Leave it to the music, man.

[Mike Wright]

Tight ends.

[Andy Holloway]

You could probably write that very quickly on that caffeine this morning. Number 10 on our list is. And this is kind of crazy for me, it's Kobe Fleener and Dwayne Allen's not entering a top 10. So.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Because I.

[Mike Wright]

Who's responsible for that?

[Andy Holloway]

Jason Moore is.

[Jason Moore]

Jason Moore is responsible. You heard it here.

[Andy Holloway]

Kobe Fleener. I know. Jason. You have some things to talk about with him.

[Mike Wright]

How did that happen?

[Andy Holloway]

You have him ridiculously high.

[Jason Moore]

I have him ridiculously high. Honestly, when I was done and I looked at my rankings, I've got him number four on my tight ends. Kobe Fleener. What do you think about that, Mike the Hitman.

[Mike Wright]

I'm. I'm baffled.

[Jason Moore]

Where do you think he finished last year, Mike the Hitman?

[Andy Holloway]

Fantasy hitman.

[Jason Moore]

My apologies.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, you know, you can call me the Did. Whatever.

[Andy Holloway]

You should take Kobe Fleener out right now.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Where did you.

[Jason Moore]

Where did he finish? Standard scoring eight. Yeah. Sixth.

[Mike Wright]

Okay.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. So I moved him up two spots. I don't think Martellus Bennett's gonna finish ahead of him or Antonio Gates is gonna finish ahead of him this year. But there's other reasons. It's not just because of where he finished last year by any stretch. You gotta remember this regiment at the Colts. They drafted two tight ends to run a two tight end set. They drafted Kobe Fleener in the second round and Dwayne Allen in the third round. And they got Kobe Fleener to be the pass catching back the pass catching back the pass catching tight end. They've always used him that way. And I think that Andre Johnson coming to town is going to open up the long game because they use Kobe Fleener for deep passes and Andre Johnson's going to be in the slot that's going to bring some coverage in, especially with a better running game with Frank Gore. I actually think it's going to open Kobe Fleena up quite a bit. So, you know, I don't have him busting off way more than his last year's numbers. I've got him one more touchdown, 50 more yards and about the same receptions. And that. That actually puts him number four for me. And I think that a lot of people are enamored with Allen and they think that he's the better red zone target. And so that's. But.

[Andy Holloway]

But Kobe Flinder, he's a better red zone target.

[Jason Moore]

Well, better in the sense that, yeah, he's got a little bit more reliable hands if you watch the play.

[Andy Holloway]

And he will score more touch.

[Jason Moore]

Well, he scored the exact same amount of red zone touchdowns as Kobe Fleener last year, but he had less targets in the red zone than Kobe Fleener. So I disagree with you there.

[Andy Holloway]

He was injured.

[Jason Moore]

Okay, yeah, go, go with the injury.

[Andy Holloway]

But he was. No, I know Dwayne Allen was injured.

[Jason Moore]

Is that a bit. Is that a good thing for fantasy?

[Andy Holloway]

No, I'm just. I'm just telling you from a red zone perspective, if you talk to, you know, that team looks to Dwayne Allen. I'm not saying Kobe Fleeners bad. Like you mentioned him, he's a downfield guy. He's an ertz. He's. He. He had the most targets over 20 yards of any tight end in football last year, but he had the number one drop rate in the entire league for tight end. So for me, that's been the problem. I've watched Kobe Fleaner for three years. We were talking about this before the show. This doesn't put him completely out of my list. He's on our top 10. I think I have him at 11. I like Kobe Fleener, but between the target breakdown on that team plus the drop rate, I. I haven't seen anything in three years to tell me all of a sudden he's going to be a top five tight end. So that's my counterpoint. I mean, you're entitled to your wrong opinion.

[Mike Wright]

I'm with Andy, where I just don't see him taking a leap of any particular value. And I think his numbers were inflated last year because of Allen's absence. If Allen is there, then Colby Fleener is not going to. He'll revert to 2013 Kobe Fleener, which is 52, 600 yards and 4. That's fine. Even you can stream him occasionally, but he's not A guy who you're just going to plug and play like a number four tight end.

[Jason Moore]

No, no, no. Because. Because think about those numbers, right? He got 52, but 608 last year with Alan Ghani only caught 51. What was the difference? The difference was he became a downfield threat. He caught, you know, 15 yards per catch and, you know, was the number one targeted tight end down the field. With Andre Johnson and Frank Gore coming in, you're going to use Kobe Fleena as a stretch tight end. And so the same thing that he did last year is going to be replicated this coming year.

[Andy Holloway]

If he's on the field, it's going to help, that's for sure. If they keep running those two tight end sets. Let's move on to number nine. Number nine, we have Jordan Cameron. I'm going to kick it over to Mike here because I thought I'd be the highest guy on him. I think I had him at nine, but Mike, you had him up at seven. So we both see something in him. Assuming he stays healthy.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

So what is your take on Jordan Cameron? Because here's a guy who's transitioning to a new team, has way more question marks than a lot of these guys. So why do we have him in our top 10?

[Mike Wright]

So here's the deal with Jordan Cameron. It's all about health for him. Now, when you go back and you I bring up the combine, I like the combine. When Jordan Cameron was drafted, he was the top performer in every single tight end category that matters. Did you guys know that?

[Jason Moore]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

No.

[Jason Moore]

I only knew that because you've said that before.

[Mike Wright]

Well, I say it because it's important that he's true. He's a. He's a very athletic guy. He's got good hands. He can get. He can do it all. He can get down the field. I don't mind this. I don't mind the change of scenery. Ryan Tannehill likes the tight end Charles Clay. Last or in. Last year he was injured, so he missed a couple games. Was on a 96 target pace the year before, 102 targets. So Ryan Tannehill throws to the tight end. I think that Cameron continues to play with the being surpassed in the draft. He was the fourth tight end taken. So despite his outstanding measurables, there was a guy like Kyle Rudolph, Lance Kendricks, and here's something that may or may not shock you guys or the audience. Rob Hausler was drafted ahead of Jordan Cameron. Now, I think that speaks more to Ken Wizen, Hunt's Ability to not draft. I will. I like, I like the silence after that. But I just. I like Jordan Cameron in this spot. Tannehill is going to throw in the ball and he's a good player.

[Andy Holloway]

One thing I noticed last year too, is that that offense moved differently when Clay was healthy. When he wasn't healthy, you know, you move Wallace out, it's not like Stills is a volume guy. So I think Landry and Cameron end up scooping up a lot of those unless they end up signing a guy like Crabtree or they sign another free agent. You're laughing because Crabtree playing in the NFL is comedic to you.

[Mike Wright]

It is.

[Andy Holloway]

But yeah, I think Cameron is a guy who, again, it's going to come down to health. I think that's got to be one of the reasons Jason has them lower than we do is because not. Okay, well, but go on.

[Jason Moore]

I'll get sure.

[Andy Holloway]

I guess you have something to say. Go ahead.

[Jason Moore]

I'm just saying you. You said that Tannehill, Mike, that he targets his receiver. He threw about 100 balls. A little less than that, but about 100 balls to the tight end position. That's total to the tight end position. But even on the teams where there's a dominant tight end and there's one clear cut tight end, normally the highest percentage you see there is like 80% of the targets going to the tight end. So if you get 80% of the targets, you say he gets 80 balls and he's going to catch a great percentage. He's going to catch, you know, 65% for, for a tight end that, that puts him at about 60 catches. I mean, that's, that's where I've got him targeted. And that's if he plays 16 games. So 60 balls on a, on a, on a, you know, 16 game schedule. I just don't see the real huge upside other than he had great physical numbers. You know, I just don't think it's that.

[Mike Wright]

That type of a. I have met.

[Andy Holloway]

69 catches for 737 yards and five touchdowns. And the only thing I'll say to your stat point about Tannehill is the fact Clay was injured last year, so they didn't really have a guy to go to outside of Clay.

[Mike Wright]

The number, the target numbers are there. It was he in 2013, he had 102. Last year he had 84, despite all the injuries, saying he was on pace for a 96 target year.

[Andy Holloway]

And this is such a confrontational beginning to our tight end. Just wait till Jimmy Graham comes this ranking. So let's move on to number eight on our list, the tried and true man, Jason Whitten. The man who, like Fred Jackson, never ages. Here's a guy who, if you had to spell his name differently, it would be reliable. He's a reliable tight end, third lowest drop rate in the league. You always see Romo going to him in two minute drill situations. His problem over the years has been touchdown production. It's actually changed a little bit over the last two years. But I am concerned that I have him at 800 plus yards this year, but only getting three touchdowns. So he is number eight on our consensus list.

[Jason Moore]

When I was researching Jason Whitten and looking up all his career stats, which are just amazing, I mean he. Do you think he's a Hall of Famer?

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I agree. His stats really are amazing. And I looked up, you know, losing DeMarco Murray is going to obviously make Tony Romo probably throwing the ball more. They're not going to run it 700 times again. And while they will still be a running team. Jason Whitten actually had a pretty darn good year last year. But as I looked, there was every reason, every logical piece of information said he's going to have a better year this year than last year. He's only 32. He's not, you know, sometimes we think, okay, he's ready to fall off because he had slightly down year. But they threw so much less in Dallas last year. And so I moved him up in my rankings quite, quite a bit. And then I looked at your guys rankings and saw, because I thought I was going to be crazy. I thought you guys were going to be like, no, he's dead. And then I looked at you guys and you both have him higher than me. And I think there's a complete consensus here that he has a great value to target.

[Andy Holloway]

We both actually have him at 10, you and I. Oh. And. But Mike has him all the way up at number five. So he's definitely on the radar for you. Is that.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, I'm very. No, it's. It's all about. So the line he put up last year of 64, 700 yards, five touchdowns. He had the lowest targets and the lowest amount of reception since 2006. These. And he had per catch or lowest yards per game since his rookie year. Like Jason said, DeMarco Murray's gone. They're still going to run, but I don't think they're going to have a guy who they can give the ball to 400 times if. Because right now it's Darren McFadden, Joseph Randle. Even if you take a super stud alleged in the draft like Melvin Gordon, you're going to give the rookie 400 carries. You're going to destroy him in one year. So you just, you can't run it as much as they did last year. And even with his, his down year, his yards per reception were still good. And I like to call Jason Whitten for tight end. I call him the tortoise. What I mean by that is he's slow and he's steady. He's. He's not going to give you that outlier performance of like a Gronkowski, but he's going to be a guy who performs for you every week. What you need from the tight end position to not lose your week.

[Andy Holloway]

He's not sexy like some of these other guys, but he's super. Like you said, he's a value pick. So don't sleep on him the way people slept on Gates last year.

[Jason Moore]

That's exactly what I was going to point out is like we're waiting for the old guys to drop off, but you, they have to actually do it. And there's no reason, zero reason.

[Andy Holloway]

One of the biggest problems just on a one minute tirade here happened with Frank Gore. It happened with Marshawn lynch last year. We are so quick in this industry to throw a guy out. It happened to Calvin Johnson on the last show by Jason.

[Jason Moore]

Two points off the number one spot.

[Andy Holloway]

You had him at number nine or something like that. I want to cry. No, I, that's more of a joke. But yeah, we want to move on to that next guy so quickly. And so we need to be careful there because you can get value on that tried and true name, like we're saying. So number seven, we have a guy that's a little bit more sexy to people. Zach Ertz. Zach Ertz is at number seven for us. I have one piece of information on Ertz. He's behind Fleener. He's the second most targeted downfield tight end. He had the most targets of or the second most targets of throws over 20 yards. And so for me, Ertz is a guy that actually I have him at 900 yards this year. I have him at 70 receptions though, and five touchdowns. And so that puts him probably a little bit higher on my list. He's at seven for me. That's where we're at. Yeah, that's where Jason and I both have him. And Mike, you have him a little bit lower. I don't blame you for that at all based on his inability to pass block. But is that, is that what it comes down to, snap count for you?

[Mike Wright]

Yes. So Zach Ertz was on the field, he was a sleeper darling last year, and then he got on the field for 50% of snaps. If your guy's not on the field, he can't give you fantasy production with his snaps. He was very, he was a great player. He got 89 targets. The problem is he's a liability in the pass protection. He's an okay run blocker, but Brent Selleck is much better at both. This is what I will say about Zach hurts. Our, our friend Andrew Goldwasser, who writes for NFLSpinzone.com raves about Zach hurts constantly. So for him, it's just a matter of can he get on the field? Zach Ertz, this year, I think people are going to be very, very down on him. And when you're talking about the tight end position, if you don't get one of your top four ranked guys, you just, just wait it out forever. And Zachary is going very, very late. I, I imagine he'll be going 10th round, maybe even the 11th when the draft season really hits. And the flyer on a guy who has the upside there is, is perfect. That's what you want to do to win your league.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. With Jeremy Macklin out, I think there's going to be more targets to go around, more people they've got to go out in, you know, throwing patterns. I think you had him as a liability sometimes in the run game. And so he was on the field 50% of the time. They want more out of him and I don't see any chance that that number stays that low. I think that that number grows. But even at 50%, he still caught almost 60 balls and 700 yards, but he only had three touchdowns. I've got him almost identically statted to where you did Andy, without looking at each other's stats. We're almost identical across the board. So I actually think his career arc.

[Andy Holloway]

Reminds me a lot of Fleener, where you have a guy that's got so much potential as a pass catcher but hasn't quite done enough to get me excited. You know, you talk about snap count, Mike. One of the sleeper candidates for me that's not on our list is Heath Miller, because Heath Miller is the number one in terms of snap count tight ends last year. And he's not gonna, he's a lot like Whitten, where he's not gonna give you that monstrous Game, but man, I, if I'm not one of those first four tight ends and I'm drafting late, I want to just see my guy on the field. It's one of the hardest things when you're playing fantasy and you're watching for your tight end and he's not even out there. Yeah, he doesn't even come out on the field. So look, look at that snap count. Let's move on to number six, Jason. You've got. Actually both of you guys have him finishing at number six overall. That's Antonio Gates. I actually did move him down right. Right after I said one of my pet peeves was people giving up on guys. I have him down at 12. Jason. Mike. Antonio Gates keeps doing it.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. For me it's the last two years. His stat line was almost identical except for touchdowns. And the touchdown was an anomaly. Last year he had.

[Andy Holloway]

That was my take too.

[Mike Wright]

He had 12. However, he's. He's always a high touchdown guy. I mean, so 78 is not out of the realm of possibilities. This could be Philip. Philip Rivers could be his last stand in San Diego and he's. He loves throwing the ball to Antonio Gates. Antonio Gates is going into the hall of Fame. He's in the hall of Fame of fantasy. Really? For tight ends?

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, he's in the hall of Fame for sure. He, he won people leagues for a long time and, And I think he.

[Mike Wright]

Did last year too, probably.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

And for where he was going and.

[Jason Moore]

Where he's going again this year, I mean, he's not going to be seen as, oh, Gates is still bad. Gates is solid. Every year it's going to be, oh, he's a year older, he's going to fall off. And you're trying to predict the fall off.

[Andy Holloway]

And you know, I think Mike's right. The falloff might come with Rivers because when Rivers is there, he's the go to guy. He's a win when push comes to shove. Second lowest drop rate among all tight ends.

[Mike Wright]

He's good. And that foot problem which is what held him back is finally gone.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Number five, Martellus Bennett. Martellus Bennett. Here's a guy who ran the most passing routes of all tight ends last year. And Brandon Marshall comes off the field now, the offense changes a little bit. But he had a great year last year. He surprised some people. His familiarity with Cutler attracts me to him. So I like Martellus Bennett. He's my number four overall. Looks like you guys don't like him as much as I do. You have them both at number nine. So what scares you about Martellus Bennett, Jason?

[Jason Moore]

What scares me about Martellus mainly is Mark Tressman leaving and the offense changing. I think that if you look at his career and how he's been used, there's going to be a bounce back. I mean, the, you know, he has in the past received, you know, up near. He had 90 targets one year, 96 targets. You know, those are, those are good numbers and they're serviceable for a tight end for sure. But last year with tressman, he had 129 targets. That was, you know, the wheeling and dealing offense that was in Chicago. There's no way that happens this year, in my opinion. I just don't think he's ever going to see 129 targets again in his career. So I just simply kept him at the same production kind of output per target and dropped his targets a little bit and that drops him in my rankings. I just don't see him as really a top five tight end. I know that Brandon Marshall is leaving, which could open things up for a couple more targets, but I think Brandon Marshall leaving is going to be eaten up mostly by a change of offense and by Alshon Jeffrey.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, for me it's just to emphasize in 2012 and 2013 he averaged 60 receptions and that shot up to 90 and I just, I see that more as the outlier than the norm for him.

[Andy Holloway]

Very fair. I wonder what his touchdown production is going to be like in that offense down at the goal line for them. That should be an interesting thing to watch. I wouldn't sleep on him. Very good takes though. Let's go on to number four on our list. I'm hesitant to.

[Mike Wright]

Where's the yard? Zipping.

[Andy Holloway]

We are zipping. Let's go through the top 10 here we had Kobe Fleener at 10, Jordan Cameron at nine, Jason Whitten at eight, Zach Ertz at seven, Antonio Gates at six, Martellus Bennett at five. And now we're moving on to a darling for many a fantasy owner last year, including Mike the fantasy Hitman.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

He ran the second most passing routes of all tight ends last year. He also has a super high snap count. I think it's in the top two or three.

[Mike Wright]

96 point.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, that's pretty good. Greg Olson at number four, finally displaying over a whole year the potential we knew he had. A go to guy for Cam Newton in an offense that has very few passing weapons. I don't see a lot of things I don't like about Greg Olson doing the exact same thing this year. What is your take? Hitman.

[Mike Wright]

So Greg Olson has, he's been similar to Jason Whitten over the last years or so once he got to Carolina. Just a really steady guy. He never had that super sexy season until last year. So here's my slight concerns with the draft value of Greg Olson. Last year was his first ever over a thousand yards. So people are going to fall in love with that thousand yards, but that's not the norm for him. He's, he's usually a great player but because of that he's going to move up to maybe back of third, fourth round because people are going to itch for that tight end. They're going to see Greg Olson and what he did last year and they're going to grab him. Two, he's an, he's a bit of an older guy and he got paid again. That's.

[Andy Holloway]

To me, those are the possible red flags you're saying.

[Mike Wright]

Yes, it's for me, when an older guy gets paid kind of on his last check it. I'm not saying that's for sure going to happen to Greg Olson, but it's just one of those, the red flags. The positive is his snap count and the last three years running he's had over 100 targets. And that's what you want for a tight end.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, yeah, he is just like Whitten and Gates. He's old, reliable. But I think you bring up a great point. You always, always, always in fantasy, you want to draft people who are going to be better than the year before because their average draft position is normally determined by that. I mean sometimes we're predicting so much better that their average draft position has that. But, but essentially you want guys who are going to be better than the year before, not worse. If you want to beat that adp. And in all honesty, Greg Olson is probably going to be a little worse than last year. He's still going to be reliable and where you're getting him and you know, I don't have a problem if you.

[Andy Holloway]

Take him, but he might not be on many of your teams due to that adp.

[Jason Moore]

Exactly. And I also think he is a rookie watch. You want to, I expect them to go out and get a wide receiver in the draft. If they don't, then that's, that's fine. But you look, he's been over 100 targets the last few years, but last year, you know, they lose Steve Smith and he pops up about, you know, 15 targets. I think they go and get A new rookie and they've got another option to outlet the ball to. Maybe he still. He stays right around that 100 mark. So I just see a slight regression. Still have him top five, but probably won't be on my team. Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

And just the last quick note, because I watched a lot of Greg Olson last year since I owned him, and he's a really fun player to watch. Hopefully Carolina realized that when you throw Greg Olson the ball, you win. I noticed a lot when they were getting the ball to him, that's when the offense was really working and it would open things up for the other guys. But when they stopped going to him, that's when the team fell apart. So hopefully the coaching staff realize that.

[Andy Holloway]

It'll be interesting too, to see if they're productive in the running game with Jonathan Stewart and how they will be, how that impacts the. Yeah, I know Jonathan Stewart, one of your guys for six games. So, yeah, if I'm looking at our consensus rankings, it sure seems like these next two guys are in that tier two. So Olson and then these next two. And then you've got Gronk stands alone. I don't think I'm surprising people at number one, but let's go ahead and go from Greg Olson at number four and let's jump to the kind of a surprise of our lair.

[Jason Moore]

I mean, really.

[Mike Wright]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

We're saying there's a different tier for us as the footballers in the. In the three and then the rest. Am I wrong there?

[Andy Holloway]

No, I think Gronk stands alone in tier one.

[Jason Moore]

Right. Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

And then I think based on how we consensus ranked, it would have been Kelsey Graham and Olson, which I just spoiled our list. But number three, we have actually Jimmy Graham. Jimmy Graham at number three. Foolish Jason has number. We have him at number three. I don't think this is a great disparity, but apparently we're going to fight about it, so.

[Mike Wright]

Well, yeah, we'll get to that, but.

[Andy Holloway]

I want much else to do on.

[Jason Moore]

A show right now in.

[Andy Holloway]

No, that's fine.

[Jason Moore]

Fight. And. And Mike has already admitted he's bad at fighting, so I'm taking it on questions.

[Mike Wright]

Not with my mouth.

[Andy Holloway]

Questions all over the place with Jimmy Graham. Consensus in the expert, you know, in the industry is Jimmy Graham's not going to be able to put up the same production in Seattle as New Orleans. Maybe it's unknown, maybe it's the style of the offense. I think it all works together. Obviously they traded the sun, moon and stars to get him.

[Mike Wright]

They did.

[Andy Holloway]

Also known as Max Unger that's his nickname. His wife gave him that. Sun, Moon and stars.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, that's like a Game of Thrones nickname.

[Jason Moore]

You are my moon, sun, moon and stars, Unger.

[Andy Holloway]

Maybe that'll stick. So I don't know even who to throw it to. He's my number three.

[Mike Wright]

Jason's going first.

[Andy Holloway]

So Jason gets to lay out why he likes Immigrant. You get to undress him after that.

[Mike Wright]

Okay, Exactly.

[Andy Holloway]

Go ahead, Jason. Tell us why you like this Jimmy Graham guy. I've never heard of him.

[Jason Moore]

All right, I've got him number two. I've got him number two. For obvious reasons, which is he's the second best tight end for fantasy.

[Andy Holloway]

And that's the reason.

[Jason Moore]

Those are really obvious reasons.

[Andy Holloway]

I have no problem with that, by the way. I'm not.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I mean, obviously we're quarreling over small things, but we love to quarrel for fun. So here's some things I like about Jimmy Graham. One, we know that he himself is very talented, is a mismatch on the field, is a great wide receiving tight end, and so there's all that to love. I also love that they wanted a tight end for a long time. They were trying to get him the year before. They've tried to trade for other big pieces. What that leads me.

[Andy Holloway]

They have Luke Wilson. Dude, they have Luke Wilson.

[Jason Moore]

Exactly. Thank you guys for agreeing with me.

[Mike Wright]

But you don't like Jordan Cameron.

[Jason Moore]

No, no, no. But that's not me. I'm saying maybe Pete Carroll does, but Pete Carroll has been trying to get a hold of an offensive pass catching weapon from the tight end position. Why? Because it fits their makeup. Perfect for the type of team they are, for having those rollouts and hit that tight end stretching the field. It's really a great weapon. Now, I expect his numbers to drop. I don't. I definitely have him lower. What's funny here is that as we were debating off the show, Mike and I, you know, he's like, I don't understand how you've got Jimmy, you know, where you've got him and all this. So I took a look at our numbers. Here's where I've got Jimmy Graham happening, and we really do a lot of quality research on this show. We went through and looked at every target.

[Andy Holloway]

You guys do that?

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, we do that.

[Mike Wright]

I pulled mine out of a hat.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. So we go through and we look at the targets. You know, every target that was gone to a tight end from Seattle, you know, combine those numbers, say, what percentage do we think is going to go to Jimmy Graham, what's his catch rate in yards? And so we get the numbers and we do this independently. We don't do this together. And coming together now, today we see. Here's where I've got Jimmy Graham. I've got Jimmy Graham catching 70 balls, 1,000 yards and 10 touchdowns. Mike, this is where you got Jimmy Graham.

[Mike Wright]

And I think I might have to evaluate this.

[Jason Moore]

65, 858. And, Andy, you've got Jimmy Graham at 81, 924 and 10. So. So me and you are almost identical on our Jimmy Graham numbers. They are not really crazy numbers. They're not numbers that I don't think are going to be difficult to reach, but where that puts him is really at that number two spot. So. So when it comes to the Jimmy Graham talk, I think we all agree he's going to be a great tight end to own. He's going to get a, a good amount of yards, 800 guaranteed yards, maybe up to 1,000 yards. That's probably the highest end. He's going to get touchdowns in that, in that offense. And so the real question here as to why I say it's crazy to have a number two versus number three is more about the next guy that we'll get to is whether or not Travis Kelce has taken that leap. And so let's keep talking about Jimmy Graham and we'll talk about Travis Kelce next.

[Mike Wright]

So first, to address your numbers, 74,000 puts him at a catch, an average catch rate of 14.29 yards. His career average is 12. So you think he's going to go up two yards a catch, moving from Drew Brees to Russell Wilson. And so here's a couple target things that we need to talk about. The highest targeted receiver from Seattle the past two years has been under 100 targets. The tight end total, you take them all, you combine them together. Last year, you get 84. Now, I agree, and I will concede that Jimmy Graham is going to get some targets more than the, the tight ends that they had on their team. But here's the problem with Jimmy Graham volume. Jimmy Graham has averaged 137 targets in his career. And with those targets, he has a 66% catch rate from Drew Brees, the second most accurate quarterback running the last two years at just under 70%. Wilson, 63%.

[Jason Moore]

Who's catching the ball for Wilson? I mean, that affects your catch, right?

[Mike Wright]

But I'm just saying that I don't.

[Andy Holloway]

Think anybody debates that Breeze is more accurate than Wilson.

[Mike Wright]

Regardless, that's the ball, the point.

[Andy Holloway]

He's one of the most accurate in history.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. So you're combining accuracy with volume and you're going. And not. Not that I think Russell Wilson is not accurate, but you take some accuracy down, you take volume down, and you're. You're gonna get worse. And then. So one more quick thing I'll point out before Andy jumps in. The Saints passed 62% of plays. Three teams. Three teams passed more than them. Seattle passed 46% of the time. You know how many teams passed less than them? Zero. They were the lowest passing percentage team in the NFL.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. It seems like they really need an offensive weapon that can catch the ball. Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

I mean, well, he's admitting that. And I think we all know comparing old tight ends to new tight ends in Seattle is ridiculous. Jimmy Graham is a otherworldly weapon. He's going to change the red zone offense and those type of things. I think what I'm hearing and I agree with and why he's three on my list and not two is simply. And this isn't really anti your take, Jason, it's just the fact of what we were just talking about. You want a guy who has the potential to move up. If Jimmy Graham's going to be drafted in accordance or even close to. In accordance to what? His production line in New Orleans. He's not going to be on any of my teams because of that. And it's, it's. There's enough reasons in Seattle to say, okay, maybe he produces the same, but there's not a lot of reasons to think he would ever get past where he's been. He's had some injury issues. He has. He's great. He's a number three on all of us. He's our top three tight end for all of us. But I have reason to believe that Travis Kelce is going to make a productive a production leap and a better value for fantasy owners.

[Jason Moore]

So I agree with everything being said, Mike. A lot of the target and volume thing, I mean, we've got him five receptions different, you and me. The point that you bring up that's completely valid is whether or not he's going to increase his yards per catch going from the Saints. Because I have him increasing his yards per catch going from the Saints to Seattle. I just see that as a. As a scheme thing. When he catches those rollout, when Russell Wilson rolls out, those are long plays. And so I do see his yards per catch going up, but. So that's debatable. But we're near the Same. The real issue in all of fantasy is always value for where you get a guy. And so you're right. Andy, I was just talking about you want a guy getting better, not worse. He's going to be worse than he was the previous year. The question is, does the publicity of going to a worse offense hurt his ADP enough to where you still get a value. I've seen in some of my mocks where he's there at the 2, 3 turn. So essentially you could say you're getting him as then you're making the third.

[Andy Holloway]

Kind of a good decision making decision there.

[Jason Moore]

That point is where I would take.

[Andy Holloway]

Him because last year he's a game changing tight end on your fantasy team.

[Jason Moore]

Right. I mean, you know last year you're talking about he was drafted in the first round sometimes. So. Yeah. So. Well, still a game changer. I think all three of these guys of our top three are game changing fantasy tight ends. Certainly not to the level of Gronk, but, but they will be a point differential to help you win games.

[Andy Holloway]

Let me, we gotta, we gotta move it on if we want to get through these next two.

[Jason Moore]

I don't want to get through.

[Andy Holloway]

We're going to talk a lot more about tight ends and Jimmy Graham and what happens after the draft. Our number two consensus, Mike and I is number two. Jason's number three is Travis Kelsey, a guy who I actually made a bet on ridiculously earlier in the offseason that wouldn't finish in the top three. And now I have him at number two because making bets in the off season is really stupid. It's just dumb.

[Mike Wright]

So I think it's great.

[Andy Holloway]

Let me give you my take on him when I, when I broke the numbers down. Here's the thing about Travis Kelsey. He's really, really good and he only played 668 snaps last year. That was almost half the top tight end snap count. And Fasano's gone and he's maturing and he's the perfect representation of that guy that has the ability to make a leap. In only 668 snaps last year he put up 67 catches, 862 yards and five touchdowns. A conservative jump just based on snap count puts him in and above that Jimmy Graham range that we're projecting right there. So that's why he is so high on my list. I have him at 84 receptions for 1100 yards and eight touchdowns and I think he is a wonderful upside tight end.

[Mike Wright]

So to add on with Andy because I am also in Love with Zeus. He had an of those of his catches. An 82% catch rate. That's, that's insane now I might say no. Yeah, I agree. That's not going to stay there. That's going to come down because he's.

[Andy Holloway]

Have you seen how long Alex Mist throws the ball? I'll catch something from three feet away.

[Mike Wright]

Thank you for listening or for leading me to another point. Vernon Davis, remember that guy? Remember when he was elite? He was like the best fantasy tight end for a while.

[Andy Holloway]

Did he have Alex Smith as his quarterback at that time?

[Mike Wright]

He averaged 105 targets. Those are the kind of targets that you want. Now here's just Another quick Kelsey tip. 503 yards after the catch that led all tight ends. He forced 17 missed tackles or not just missing tacks or going through guys. So not only can he catch and run, he can go through you, he can go around you. He's, he is extremely athletic. He is Baby Gronk or Zeus, whatever you want to call him. And when you're looking at the draft, I expect him to rise into to the fourth range, but I will absolutely. For a guy who does not want to take tight ends early, I'm taking Travis Kelsey in the fourth round.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, you know, brother, I agree with that. I would say this, he's. He's third on my list, but I would probably have Travis Kelce before I have Jimmy Graham because of where he's going to be drafted. I've got them finishing almost the same. The discrepancy for me here is just the offense. I think the offense hurts him. I'd much rather have. Seattle is a much higher power offense. They threw for 1,000 more yards and five more touchdowns than Kansas City did. Also with Jeremy Macklin coming in, some of the receiving touchdowns aren't going. I mean literally they had nobody. I mean Dwayne Bowe and nobody. So you know, if Jeremy Macklin comes in and catches five receiving touchdowns, that's five more than.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm not worried about it because their offense will be better.

[Jason Moore]

Their offense will be better, but their offense still isn't going to be great. So you know, we've got them very similarly. Zeus alone, I never thought in all my days because I've been on Travis Kelsey for the last two years. Love him. I've always talked him up. I never thought I'd be on a fantasy show speaking any down. Any down playing on Travis Kelsey. So I won't, I will say draft him. Draft him like crazy. He will be great. He'll Be fantastic. And he will finish right where Jimmy Graham finishes as the number two or three tight end.

[Mike Wright]

Even if the offense is not as high powered as the Seattle offense, the offense runs through the running back and the tight end because that's what Alex Smith does. So that's. That's who I want.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, we're going to move on to number one on our list. Everybody knows who it is. It's Gronk. But before we do that, I want to point out one thing I noticed.

[Mike Wright]

Stay tuned.

[Andy Holloway]

I want to point out something that I noticed on our rankings. That a name you did not hear in our top 10 is my number six overall tight end, Julius Thomas. Julius Thomas. So I wanted to touch on him really quickly. I have him at number six and I have him at number six because I believe that Julius Thomas will score a lot of touchdowns in Jacksonville.

[Mike Wright]

How many do you have?

[Andy Holloway]

I have met 10.

[Mike Wright]

Okay.

[Andy Holloway]

And so I just want to bring him up because you guys have him so low. I want to know why you don't like Julius Thomas. I do not think for a minute that he is, you know, going to ascend in terms of his statistics compared to his years in Denver. But I haven't very. I mean, 67 catches, 600 yards. That's what I have him at. But 10 touchdowns.

[Jason Moore]

Blake Bortle.

[Andy Holloway]

So Mike, you have met almost. Almost. Not even a tight end, too.

[Mike Wright]

I have him very low.

[Andy Holloway]

So you. You hate him. You hate him and his family?

[Mike Wright]

I do most. Mostly his family. Not so much the male. So the thing or tight ends are always proclaimed to be the security blanket for a new quarterback, right?

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. I know where you're going. This is crazy.

[Mike Wright]

Clay harbor and Mercedes Lewis combined for 66 targets.

[Jason Moore]

Targets, not receptions.

[Mike Wright]

So. So Blake Bortles was not relying on the tight end. Demarius Thomas. Sorry, not Demarius. I apologize. Julius Thomas had 12 touchdowns both years when he played with Peyton Manning. Do you know how many. How many yards he averaged per game in those years?

[Andy Holloway]

Not a lot.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, two touchdowns.

[Andy Holloway]

About what equates to 600 yards on the Jacksonville Jaguars.

[Mike Wright]

He had 56 yards per game in 2013 and 38 in 2014. The guy's not going to get yards. He is a red zone beast. I will concede that point. That in the end zone, he is fantastic. How many times are the Jacksonville Jaguars going to get to the end zone?

[Andy Holloway]

Here's what I want to do because we got to move it on. I bring him up because you have him at 19, I have him at 6. I want a top 10 bet with you? If you have him at 19, that's a more than reasonable bet. Fantasy production top 10, Julius Thomas.

[Mike Wright]

Done.

[Jason Moore]

Water bet.

[Andy Holloway]

Boom.

[Mike Wright]

Put it on the board.

[Andy Holloway]

There you go. All right, number one, Rob Gronkowski. He needs no introduction, although he would love one, I'm sure. Probably with some dance music. Yeah, some ladies. He is undoubtedly the number one tight end. He had a wonderful bounce back year last year. I have him going over the 1200 yard mark and 16 touchdowns this year, making him the true and only game changing tight end on my board. Is there much we need to say about him? He's good.

[Mike Wright]

That's Billy Madison.

[Jason Moore]

He's good.

[Mike Wright]

Rob Gronkowski is the single largest, and I'm not talking over quarterbacks, to me, the single largest positional advantage that you can gain in fantasy football. He's a, the only question with Gronk is still the health. People are gonna.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, he's, you have a risk.

[Mike Wright]

He's good to go. He played all of last year. He's good to go. The previous two years he did not.

[Andy Holloway]

But why does he. Real quick caveat to that. You brought up the health. Why every time does he get hit, does he fly across the field? Why he's like, is he off? Does he run off balance? I mean, does he run so fast?

[Mike Wright]

His skeletal. What is the opposite of adamantium? Because whatever that is, that's what his skeletal structure is composed of.

[Andy Holloway]

He looks like he's a crash test dummy. Every time he gets into a, somebody tackles him, he's just, he's got a.

[Mike Wright]

Flair for the dramatic.

[Jason Moore]

Okay, so the question on Gronk I think is where to draft him? Because clearly he's a first rounder. And Mike brings up the most important point on Gronk, which is his positional advantage. Every single game that you go in you have a, I mean normally on average you're talking like a six point advantage over, you know, your, your middle of the road tight end on your other team and he'll win you many games. And so where do you draft him? Because I could see going as high as, you know, especially with the levy on Bell news. To me, I'm like that, that makes him even all the more important. So, so where do we take him in the first round?

[Andy Holloway]

That's a good question. And the answer is I still. Probably the back half.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. If I'm going to take him, probably.

[Andy Holloway]

I won't get him is what I'm saying.

[Mike Wright]

And when you take him, you have to be making that swap in your mind, you're saying, I'm taking my wide receiver one, and that's Gronkowski at the tight end. So I'm going to try and shore it up with some other stuff. To me, where you have to take him, I can't see him being on any of my teams. I would love to have him on my teams, unlike Jimmy Graham. But the cost of Gronk is Julio.

[Andy Holloway]

Jones or Rob Gronkowski.

[Jason Moore]

For where you're getting Julio, I'd take. I take Gronk there because if I'm. If I'm in the second half of the first round and I'm in a normal snake draft and I know that my second round pick is going to be a little bit higher, then I'll take.

[Andy Holloway]

If you're staring down Antonio Brown or Rob Gronkowski at number, I don't know.

[Jason Moore]

Seven, and number seven, I take Gronk.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay. I think I do too, because of the positional advantage. But that would be tough because I think, really, Really.

[Jason Moore]

I think that when, when I look at, you know, okay, so I didn't take that wide receiver in the first round. So my wide receivers, you know, are a slight tier lower. But I look at the difference between my third wide receiver and who I can get even off the lot easier.

[Andy Holloway]

To find value at wide receiver versus.

[Jason Moore]

How in the world I could make up that positional advantage. It's not the same.

[Andy Holloway]

My.

[Jason Moore]

My issue is. See, here's how I see Gronk. I see Gronk as like, pretty much worthy of the number one pick in the draft. Honest to goodness, I think that he is worthy of that. The problem is that if you're taking him in the first, second, third spot, you don't pick again until so long. That's really my issue. It's not, is he worth more than Antonio Brown? I always think he is. It's just, well, you're talking about 1.

[Andy Holloway]

2, 3, 4, 5, or you wait on a guy we love like Travis Kelsey for the turn of the third or something like that. So.

[Mike Wright]

But if you're telling me I can get Gronk, like I'm saying that eight, seven or eight, and I can get Gronk and you're telling me Jeremy Hill is going to come back to me, then boom, maybe I do that.

[Andy Holloway]

Game over, man.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

So our top 10, Fleener, Cameron, Whitten, Ertz Gates, our top five, Bennett, Olson, Graham, Kelsey and Gronkowski.

[Jason Moore]

Draft them all. Mailbag, bail bag.

[Andy Holloway]

Just for clarity, do not draft all tight ends.

[Jason Moore]

You know, you got to try new things. Stay open minded.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

So this first question in our mailbag comes from Ben S. Ben S. He had a really good question, I thought, for dynasty and keeper leagues. How do you handle an owner who is active in the season but does not respond to offers for weeks, if at all, in the off season? My take on this is it's a dynasty league. If you're not responding to trade offers, you're not doing it right.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

So some suggestions there is. You know, a lot of leagues have a constitution of sorts, some rules. You have to put something in place, in my opinion, that requires your owners to participate in the way you expect them to. In a dynasty or a keeper league.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. To answer the question of how, how do you go about dealing with that is you need to put things to a vote. You need to bring it up. So, like, if you've got a problem and maybe your buddy and your two buddies in the league, you all have a problem. Like, Jerry just won't get back to me.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, then I hate Jerry.

[Jason Moore]

Well, then you guys need to, you know, not just gossip behind the back and see how can we replace him and whatnot, but you need to bring it up to the league and say, hey, we want to take a vote on whether or not people should have to be involved in the off season. Because if the majority of your league would say no, I mean, it's different from league to league. If the majority of your league says, dude, we need an offseason too, then, you know, sorry, maybe you need to join a different league. If the majority of the league is like, man, I, yeah, I've got the same problem with you. I can't ever get a hold. Then you need to kick them out. But it's a league dependent thing. So I think that, you know, I'm, you know, I'm all about that democracy, you know, a go America.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, that's a patriot.

[Jason Moore]

So I would.

[Andy Holloway]

Any other thoughts? Mike? I mean, do you agree?

[Mike Wright]

I. Yeah, I agree with everything that's said. I, I like things to be more.

[Andy Holloway]

Active and I think that's the fun of a dynasty.

[Mike Wright]

The tough part really is if he's truly an active owner, he or she is truly active in, in the season. I don't feel like you can rightfully kick them out because they're. They've shown they have interest in the.

[Andy Holloway]

League, set a precedent for the new year or something like that.

[Mike Wright]

Please just at least respond. I mean, it doesn't take that much.

[Andy Holloway]

I hate that.

[Jason Moore]

Come on, people.

[Mike Wright]

Click the no seconds no. Or say. You can even say no, I'm not trading right now. Just. Just a response is the. It's the polite thing to do. It's the formal thing to do. It's the American thing to do. Just say no.

[Jason Moore]

Vote fantasy football also. Last thing on that. When you do bring it to your league, you need to bring something actionable to the league. Not should we do something. Vote on whether we should do something. Come with what you're going to do. So you better. Should we remove so and so from the league? Bring that to a vote?

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. Or should we require blank.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Question number two comes from Dawson. He has a keeper league question. Dawson from the creek.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

That's where I was going. I can't stop picturing that meme face of him crying now.

[Mike Wright]

Say hi to Joey for me.

[Andy Holloway]

That's a new hashtag for this show. Which side of this dynasty league. This is important. Which side of this dynasty league trade do you like? And I don't even know my own answer yet. Martavis Bryant or the. What looks like the seventh and eighth picks of the second round. So I don't have any more details on this league. So I don't know how many guys are on their roster, but I'm guessing there's a lot of rookies being drafted. So I think that I actually prefer the picks myself, but because there's two.

[Mike Wright]

Of them, I think I like Martavis Bryant. I know what I'm getting.

[Andy Holloway]

And Bryant in the hand.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. When I. I honestly see Martavis Bryant turning into Mike Wallace for that team. I don't know if you guys remember this, but Mike Wallace on Pittsburgh was awesome.

[Jason Moore]

I do remember that.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

So I, I think Bryant can turn.

[Andy Holloway]

Into my brain somewhere.

[Mike Wright]

And the guys you're going to get at the end of the second round, maybe. But Bryant is. He's already shown that, shown flashes of what he can do. I think his role grows. I really like him this year. I like him every year. Marktavis Bryant for president.

[Andy Holloway]

There you go. If you have a question, you can email us, mail at the fantasy footballers.com or find us on Twitter at the Fantasy I'm sorryffballers. Because they don't allow you to have that many characters in your Twitter handle. So heffballers on the web at the fantasy footballers.com and like we say at the beginning of every show.

[Mike Wright]

What do we say?

[Andy Holloway]

We love it when you leave us a review. If you like what we're doing, if you like the passion we're bringing, if you like these New voices in the world of fantasy football. Then leave us a review and we try to read one every show. So we're gonna do that now.

[Jason Moore]

Reviewasaurus rags. This one comes in from Dat Fantasy Dude. He says, so I'm gonna start this out like everybody else does. These dudes know their stuff. We gotta just change the name of a podcast.

[Andy Holloway]

This is what we are now.

[Mike Wright]

We are, we are gentlemen.

[Jason Moore]

These dudes know their stuff. I listen to every other fantasy football podcast because fantasy football is my passion. Andy, Jason and Mike are a mix of comedians slash football analysts. And it's refreshing to get some new blood in the football podcast world. Thank you guys for doing what you do and keep up the good fantasy info. Well, you keep up the good listening. Dat Fantasy Dude.

[Mike Wright]

I don't agree with my name being last on the list unless it means that I'm closest to comedian and football analyst.

[Andy Holloway]

Look, man, you're kind of the third wheel.

[Mike Wright]

I knew it.

[Andy Holloway]

You're just here for your beard. I'm sorry, bro.

[Mike Wright]

We got it. If you haven't seen the beard, you guys need to check out the pictures and we'll, we'll get that jujitsu picture up.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh my goodness it. You look like you had just been through like a three cycle wash washing machine.

[Mike Wright]

It's a viral sensation. I've heard I look like a lion in that picture.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, you got a lot of hair, dude. Hey, we really do appreciate everybody who's been listening leaving reviews, visiting us on the web. You're what makes us one of the fastest growing shows on itunes. Sitting at number two right now for fantasy football. So we love you, Appreciate it. Next week we're going to be bringing you some more exciting new shows, giving you your off season fantasy fix. We're going to have a mock draft coming soon, some team previews. The NFL draft is going to be here very soon. We're going to be just.

[Mike Wright]

And I'm going to turn into horses.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I'm gonna be freaking happy.

[Jason Moore]

We're gonna winnie with excitement and Andy, finish, finish this sentence.

[Andy Holloway]

I didn't expect Winnie. I thought you were gonna say nay, so Winnie made me laugh.

[Jason Moore]

Finish this sentence. Our opinions are so strong, they'll pop.

[Andy Holloway]

The buttons right off your chest.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, yes, they will. Off your chest. You have buttons on your chest.

[Andy Holloway]

Off your shirt. All right, Just like Gronk would.

[Mike Wright]

And then I have one last note. I've been enjoying a Lacroix coconut. It's like, it's been like I've been in Hawaii this entire show. Are you.

[Andy Holloway]

Are you trying to get another sponsor?

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, if you or someone, you know.

[Mike Wright]

Why you gotta talk about it like that? I'm just saying I'm enjoying a lacroix sparkling water flavored water. It's delicious.

[Andy Holloway]

All right, we'll see you next week, guys. Take care.

[Mike Wright]

Goodbye.

[Jason Moore]

Thank you for listening to another edition of the Fantasy Footballers Podcast.