Fantasy Football Podcast 2016 - Early RB Rankings, Fantasy News & Mailbag

Summary

Fantasy Footballers Podcast Summary
Episode: Fantasy Football Podcast 2016 - Early RB Rankings, Fantasy News & Mailbag
Release Date: March 29, 2016

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Introduction

The episode kicks off with a brief introduction from the hosts—Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike "The Fantasy Hitman" Wright—setting the stage for an in-depth discussion on early running back (RB) rankings, recent fantasy football news, and listener mailbag questions. The hosts express excitement about unveiling the consensus top 12 RB rankings, a much-anticipated segment among their audience.

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Running Back Rankings

Consensus Top 12 Overview (01:06 - 15:43)
The hosts delve into the consensus top 12 running backs, compiling their individual rankings and discussing the strengths and potential risks associated with each player. The segment promises lively debates, especially where opinions diverge.

Le'Veon Bell - Number 1 (16:35 - 19:58)
Le'Veon Bell secures the top spot in the consensus rankings. Andy Holloway raises concerns about Bell’s knee health and workload management, pondering if the Steelers might limit his usage to preserve him for the playoffs.

• Jason Moore counters by emphasizing Bell's importance to the Steelers' offense, stating, "Le'Veon Bell gives that team the best chance to win..." (17:14).
• Mike Wright adds, "He is at the top of all three of our boards," supporting Bell’s top rank despite health concerns.

David Johnson - Number 2 (19:58 - 25:06)
David Johnson takes the second spot, praised for his dual-threat capability as both a runner and receiver. However, questions about his endurance over a full 16-game season persist.

• Andy Holloway highlights Johnson’s exceptional speed and pass-catching ability: "He has fewer questions than all the guys we just talked about."
• Mike Wright underscores the importance of Johnson’s role in an elite Arizona offense, ensuring consistent fantasy points through both rushing and receiving.

Todd Gurley - Number 3 (25:06 - 29:20)
Todd Gurley is ranked third, recognized for his rookie performance and potential for high touchdown numbers. Despite some concerns about workload consistency, Gurley’s talent and offensive fit make him a standout.

• Jason Moore remarks on Gurley’s explosive start: "He is doing great for fantasy... best start as a rookie running back ever."
• Andy Holloway compares Gurley to Adrian Peterson, emphasizing his workhorse capability: "How many times is he going to get the ball? Is he going to get the ball near that 300 carry mark?"

Jamal Charles - Number 4 (29:20 - 32:23)
Jamal Charles ranks fourth, lauded for his elite talent despite returning from a second ACL tear. His high target volume as a receiver bolsters his fantasy value.

• Jason Moore emphasizes Charles's potential: "The talent level is elite... he's on a pace for 80 catches."
• Mike Wright discusses the strategic advantage of Charles in the Chiefs' offense: "It's a match made in heaven for Alex Smith in that offense."

Adrian Peterson - Number 5 (33:25 - 35:37)
Adrian Peterson is placed fifth, valued for his reliability and consistent touchdown production. While not as heavily involved in the passing game, his proven track record makes him a safe elite option.

• Andy Holloway defends Peterson’s placement by focusing on risk mitigation: "He has fewer questions... he's going to get the ball 300 times."
• Jason Moore concurs, noting Peterson's steady touchdown count: "You'll get 10 touchdowns from Adrian Peterson."

Mark Ingram - Number 6 (37:29 - 43:18)
Mark Ingram holds the sixth spot, recognized for his dual-threat capabilities and consistent performance. The hosts discuss his pass-catching role and the Saints' offensive strategy.

• Mike Wright praises Ingram's versatility: "He gives that team the best chance to win..."
• The discussion touches on the potential challenges of carrying both Ingram and his handcuff, highlighting strategic considerations for fantasy managers.

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News and Notes

Team Updates and Player Moves (09:03 - 14:52)
The hosts share recent fantasy football news, including player movements and team strategies.

• Arian Foster’s Potential Move: Mike Wright reports Foster's exploratory visit to the Dolphins, highlighting his Achilles injury and the Dolphins' interest in bolstering their running back roster.

• Jared Cook’s Signing: Jared Cook joins the Packers on a one-year deal, leading to a discussion on the depth at the tight end position and Cook's value as a streaming candidate.

• Ryan Fitzpatrick’s Contract Negotiations: The conversation shifts to Fitzpatrick's salary negotiations, expressing frustration over his declining market value despite solid performance.

Offseason Tips Recap (14:34 - 15:43)
Andy Holloway briefly mentions their previous episode on offseason tips, emphasizing the importance of cautious coach speak and evaluating player opportunities during free agency.

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Mailbag

Listener Questions and Advice (44:18 - 57:40)

1. Waiver Process Lobbying (44:18 - 48:55):
   Nick Mangold from Tulsa, Oklahoma, asks how to lobby for a rule change in his 16-team redraft league's waiver system. He points out the unfairness of the current setup where the worst record always has top priority, hindering teams from mid-season waiver pickups.

   • Hosts’ Response:
     • Jason Moore advocates for a free agent budget (FAB) system, highlighting its fairness and strategic depth.
     • Andy Holloway discusses the evolution of waiver systems, initially supporting the reset order but recognizing its limitations.
     • Mike Wright emphasizes the strategic advantages of FAB, arguing that it rewards smart in-season management rather than just standing based on season records.

2. Draft Strategy Guidance (48:11 - 50:26):
   A listener, Zach from Des Moines, seeks advice on draft choices, particularly weighing between securing top running backs like Le'Veon Bell and Doug Martin versus wide receivers like Odell Beckham Jr. (OBJ) or Julio Jones.

   • Hosts’ Response:
     • Andy Holloway recommends targeting Bell and Martin for their consistent RB1 potential, while Jason Moore and Mike Wright agree, emphasizing the flexibility and value of securing strong RBs early and leveraging later picks for elite WRs.

3. Keeper League Clarifications (53:29 - 57:40):
   Crawford from Vancouver inquires about setting up keeper league rules, particularly balancing keeping players without unfairly penalizing draft positions.

   • Hosts’ Response:
     • Jason Moore suggests using round value and potentially trading draft slots to maintain fairness.
     • Andy Holloway and Mike Wright discuss methods to ensure that keeping players like Le'Veon Bell doesn’t unduly disadvantage other teams, advocating for systems that balance draft equity with keeper advantages.

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with reminders about upcoming shows and additional content available on their YouTube channel, where they engage in off-the-wall debates and discussions. The hosts express gratitude to their listeners, encouraging continued participation and support through various platforms like Twitter and their fantasy community website, JoinTheFoot.com.

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Notable Quotes

• Jason Moore on Le'Veon Bell:
  "Le'Veon Bell gives that team the best chance to win..." (17:14)

• Andy Holloway on David Johnson:
  "He has fewer questions than all the guys we just talked about." (23:07)

• Mike Wright on Todd Gurley:
  "He's a talent that you mix with the workload... I just love Todd Gurley." (26:17)

• Jason Moore on Jamal Charles:
  "The talent level is elite... he's on a pace for 80 catches." (30:06)

• Mike Wright on the FAB system:
  "It revolves around making strategic, smart, ingenious waiver wire selections." (56:02)

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and strategic advice offered by the Fantasy Footballers in this episode. From in-depth running back rankings to nuanced league management tips, listeners are provided with valuable information to enhance their fantasy football experience.

Transcript

[Nick Mangold]

This is Nick Mangold of the New.

[Jason Moore]

York jets, and you're listening to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast.

[Andy Holloway]

Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast with your hosts, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore and Mike Wright.

[Mike Wright]

Welcome to the show. We're back Tuesday, March 29th.

[Jason Moore]

We sure?

[Mike Wright]

I'm pretty sure. I can never be certain that the date is right at this age of my life. Yes, knowing the date is a challenge, but I believe it is Tuesday, March 29th. We are the Fantasy Footballers. I'm Andy Holloway joined by Jason Moore and Mike the Fantasy Hitman. Right.

[Jason Moore]

We are here. Jason, are you here?

[Andy Holloway]

I am ready to go. We have been. Everyone looks forward to rankings. We've been working tirelessly stating guys out. And now the show that everybody's been waiting for, including myself, the running back rankings. Yes.

[Mike Wright]

Well, running back one, our consensus top 12. Yeah, let's put it plainly before you. And I'm excited to debate some of these names. This is, as I said, the consensus top 12. So you have all of our individual rankings brought together, and we will discuss kind of each individual player where we have them individually, you know, when. When there is a big separation between them. It'll be a lot of fun. We've got some news for you. We have the mailbag and we have the election results.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Oh. A lot of people like the election episode.

[Jason Moore]

It felt good, man.

[Mike Wright]

It was fun. And so got a lot of good feedback on that. And we have the results for you today. Before we get into that, I do want to remind everybody about JoinTheFoot.com, our fantasy football community. You can go. You can engage in fantasy football discussion with our listeners. You can get an exclusive episode. Every single week. We record an extra episode just with questions from our Foot Clan members. And there's a lot of other good stuff on there. You'll be able to join Foot Clan leagues. It's a great way to support our show. Go on to Twitter if you want to follow usffballers. We're on YouTube, the fantasy sports Network. Mike is sporting that shirt today.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, company man.

[Mike Wright]

That's. That's right. There you go. And so, a lot of good stuff, but let's get into the results. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. All right. If you need a refresher on what took place last week, we had an election show. We were electing five offices for the 2016 fantasy football season. These included the president, which we're going to get to now. Each of us nominated a Candidate, and in this case, obviously the best man won.

[Jason Moore]

The America president let me down.

[Mike Wright]

The newly elected president of the 2016 fantasy football season. There were three names on the ballot. Eddie Lacy, Todd Gurley and Mark Ingram. And Eddie Lacy did not win. That's really the important.

[Jason Moore]

You're bitter.

[Mike Wright]

Todd Gurley. Todd Gurley won with 72% of the vote. We are united together. Todd Gurley won that one. Did you guys have any thoughts on the president this year?

[Andy Holloway]

No. I assumed he would be the runaway winner. He is the guy who is going to be drafted the highest out of these three gentlemen.

[Mike Wright]

Very fair.

[Andy Holloway]

And so he will. You know, name recognition goes a long.

[Mike Wright]

72% of the way. Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

As does being the new hotness. Well, that always helps.

[Mike Wright]

He's also really good.

[Jason Moore]

It helps. No, no, I'm not taking that away from it. Just the new hotness, as you can see in the vice president, that also helped.

[Mike Wright]

All right. The vice president was a player that was going to become elite this year, maybe a future president of the fantasy football world. And the nominees were Zach Ertz by me.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Mike Evans by Jason. And Amari Cooper, who I will say I wanted to claim. Mike grabbed him. And Amari Cooper is the new vice president serving alongside Todd Gurley with 60% of the vote.

[Jason Moore]

I'm actually happy at the showing of Zach Ertz 9 with 9% of the vote.

[Mike Wright]

I was shocked because with it being that high.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Okay.

[Jason Moore]

Well, to me that's. That's a. An underrated pick of. It's. It's just not a sexy name if you're like Zach Ertz. It's a tight end. But I completely agree that he could very well become elites and a potential league winner because when you get those elite tight ends very late a la A Jordan Reed, a Tyler Ifert. Oh, I fort that changes your entire season.

[Mike Wright]

Sure does.

[Andy Holloway]

Kobe Fleener.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, Kobe Fleener this year. Sure.

[Mike Wright]

Jason sneezed.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. Excuse me.

[Mike Wright]

All right. The attorney general was the bounce back player. The idea here was somebody that was going to bring some justice to his name. And this was a little bit closer. You had Andrew Luck, Carlos Hyde and Jamal Charles in the running here. And the winner for the bounce back player was Andrew Luck with 52% of the vote. Jamal Charles was pretty close with 37% of the vote. And Carlos Hyde came in last with 11%. Not unexpected. Andrew Luckton, new attorney general.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, he was a. He strikes me as a sheriff with his beard. He's coming. He's coming with the cowboy hat on.

[Jason Moore]

Is He a sheriff or a serial killer when he's. Because he sounds like Buffalo Bob from Silence of the Lamps. I threw a touchdown.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, it's dangerous. And I don't think you should give him the same name as his predecessor either. The Sheriff. Peyton Manning.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Wright]

All right.

[Jason Moore]

Do people really call him the sheriff?

[Mike Wright]

Yes, they do. I'm really new.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes.

[Mike Wright]

They've called him that for years.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm with, with Mike, I'm like, I don't remember. I know, I know it. I just don't remember actually seeing it.

[Jason Moore]

I don't think I've ever once called him the Sheriff.

[Mike Wright]

You can call, you can call Andrew Luck, White Earp, maybe Doc. We'll see. All right. Treasury Secretary was the best ADP value. Okay. This is the player that you're going to get the best value for. Look, it was close. Again you had Jonathan Stewart, Willie Snead and Kamar Akin. I was surprised that 14% of the vote went to Kamar Aiken because America knows, unlike you, percent of America does. So Jonathan Stewart won that 49% of the vote. Willie Snead with 37%, Kamara Akin with 14%. And all three are probably very good values for you. That's the reality of the situation. And then we've got the Department of Veteran affairs, the best veteran. This was a runaway. This was no contest because he's barely a veteran. Matt Forte, 82% of the vote is a veteran.

[Andy Holloway]

He's a 30 year old running back.

[Mike Wright]

12% of the vote. Well, okay, but when you picture Mount Forte and Jason Whitten, which one has got the Walker?

[Jason Moore]

That's probably Jason win. But that it's not grandpa award, it's veteran award.

[Mike Wright]

Well, Matt Forte, I think we like his potential in New York despite the peripheral running back pieces. I mean you saw what I loved about New York last year. Brief aside is kind of the just reliable predictability of that offense which makes getting Ryan Fitzpatrick back in it so important. But, but you kind of just ho hummed your way to Marshall Decker Ivory. They were just solid.

[Jason Moore]

Which the word on the street is. I just want to bring this up real quick. The word of the out of the bushes is the jets are offering Reggie Patrick $7 million a year which is just embarrassing.

[Mike Wright]

They sold their willing to go up to nine.

[Jason Moore]

Not even nine million. Anything under double digit figures for a starting quarterback who almost got you to the playoffs is a slap in the face and ridiculous.

[Mike Wright]

I'm standing up for Ryan Fitzpatrick.

[Jason Moore]

Absolutely. I don't think he's worth the 16 he wants but to say we'll start negotiations at seven.

[Mike Wright]

That's why there's no deal right now.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, give him 10. Give him to give him double digits.

[Jason Moore]

He is just ridiculous.

[Mike Wright]

You make a prediction right now on the air. One, is he back to what will his salary be with whatever team he signs with?

[Andy Holloway]

I think he will be back at 10 million.

[Jason Moore]

I agree with that. I agree with that.

[Mike Wright]

I will predict that he is back at 9 million.

[Andy Holloway]

It's fair if you can't get paid anywhere else.

[Mike Wright]

All right, let's move on to what do we got the news Got some news and notes. Do it.

[Andy Holloway]

News and notes from around the league.

[Mike Wright]

Alright. We did have a report today and he always takes precedence in my life. Arian Foster reportedly visiting the Dolphins. I have read that this is an exploratory type of visit. They want to see where he's at physically with the Achilles injury. They have also they were apparently the Dolphins were involved with Alfred Morris. You had them involved with C.J. anderson. There was. They're looking for another back. They don't want to. I don't think that's a lack of confidence in the NFL anymore. Just because you're looking for another back doesn't mean you say boy, I don't like Jay Ajayi. Well, no, you can't give a guy every carry.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

You also can't play with no running back if one gets hurt. So it's no offense to Ajayi. They just probably don't want to give him the ball. 3.

[Jason Moore]

The interesting thing is just these players of note that they keep trying to bring in and they're talking to guys who in my opinion would instantly supplant achieve to be the, the lead back in the timeshare.

[Mike Wright]

Foster is in a different category though. I think Foster would. That would be a timeshare secondary. You know, he would come in like Moreno came in there with Lamar Miller and there would be I think a very even split. No, it'd probably be a Jai Moreno.

[Jason Moore]

Is a great comparison because Foster will get there, look great and then after one game will be dead.

[Mike Wright]

There you go. Jared Cook has signed with the Packers.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

On a one year deal. It's interesting.

[Jason Moore]

It's interesting that. Yeah, I'll give you that.

[Mike Wright]

But how interesting is it? Is it Vernon Davis to the Broncos interesting?

[Andy Holloway]

It's more interesting. It is more interesting than Vernon Davis to the Broncos. But it's not. It's not. Here's what it does for me. Fantasy football. The tight end position this year looks so Deep. I just don't need to stress and worry about taking one of those middle of the pack guys because Jared Cook, look, I.

[Mike Wright]

How many times will he be streamed next year exactly?

[Andy Holloway]

I probably won't draft him couple. And if I do draft him, it will be with my third to last pick and I'll be. But he seems like a perfect streaming candidate. You've seen him be able to be productive in spot starts and in. I mean, when he was with Matt Hasselbeck back in the day, he was a pretty good tight end. Now give him Aaron Rodgers. I think that's an upgrade over his quarterback last year.

[Jason Moore]

How dare you. How dare you. Jeff Fisher disagrees.

[Mike Wright]

Tell the story of your little. Your son's random superstar. Superstar.

[Jason Moore]

Wait, what toy?

[Mike Wright]

The random superstar toy. Oh.

[Jason Moore]

So if you didn't. If you don't follow us on social media, we got. Got the kids the Easter basket inside the east. The basket for the two. Two sons. You have these mystery packs. They're NFL players. It's a mystery pack. You don't know. You don't know who you're gonna do. You know, I love mystery packs and they're Lego guys. So you combine the, the child's love of the Legos with the football, which my older son is. He's asked me now daily, is football on?

[Andy Holloway]

He's.

[Jason Moore]

He's starting to get the sickness. So luckily he got Lashawn McCoy. I was like, oh, you know, that's, that's not bad. Aside from the, the beating people up in a club, you know, Shady McCoy, it's pretty good. My younger son, luckily it was the younger one and he has no idea what's going on because I open it up or my wife opens it. She's like, I think it's. It's the Rams number five. I'm like, is that Nick Foles? And I was like, I thought this was a superstar pack.

[Andy Holloway]

It literally says superstar on the front of it.

[Jason Moore]

Really? Nick Foles.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, that's like I would.

[Jason Moore]

Give me Tavon Keenum.

[Mike Wright]

Give me Keenum. Nick Foles. All right. We did have an episode on Thursday last week. It was the offseason tips. The top 10 offseason tips for your team, your fantasy team. One of those was to, you know, be careful with coach speak. And the things said in the off season. They like to say many good things about their players. So here's a chance to put that into effect. Jay Gruden came out, said they let Alfred Morris go in free agency because they are very excited about Matt Jones. How excited are you guys about Matt Jones running back for, for the Washington Redskins Opportunity?

[Jason Moore]

I would say I'm pretty excited. I think he's going to get a tremendous opportunity. We've seen flashes of the talent moves quite well for a big guy. So it's, it's there. Will I draft or expect him to do great things? No. No. And Chris Thompson is back who is the, the pass catching back. And then the last note just because I don't want the hype was so great, especially from. From myself. I completely concede this point on Amir Abdullah, but they were, they were talking about him up in Detroit. So do not forget the talent level that Abdullah has combined with an opportunity similar to Matt Jones where don't throw them in the garbage because they could be starting running backs and that's what you need. So. But speaking of starting running backs one through 12, before we get to that, we want to thank our good friends of the show, Pristine Auction. Look, Foot clan. You gotta decorate the house, you gotta decorate those rooms. And what better to do it with some sweet memorabilia. Not just sports memorabilia like this fantastic David Johnson jersey that every time I see it I go, that's sharp. That's a good looking jersey. They don't have stuff just like that. They have all your needs covered. They have right now there is a signed epiphone guitar that they use that looks just like Back to the Future signed by Michael J.

[Andy Holloway]

Fox.

[Jason Moore]

And it is taking all of my willpower to not jump in on that. It is spectacular. They have. There's a Ray Lewis signed jersey. Signed Ray Lewis jersey. Only $124 right now. Because look, the stuff on Pristine Auction is far more affordable than you would ever think for this type of memorabilia. They have daily auctions and authenticity is the key to Pristine Auction. They guarantee the authenticity. All items come with authentication from only the most trusted sources. So please go check out Pristine Auction. That's P R I S T I n e auction.com. you will not regret it, trust me. Go check out Pristine Auction.

[Andy Holloway]

Running backs.

[Jason Moore]

Who Running backs.

[Mike Wright]

The time is here, gentlemen. We have put pen to paper. We have studied the tape, we have looked at the teams.

[Jason Moore]

I really hope you do your rankings in pen. You know, on like a notebook.

[Mike Wright]

I happen to really like writing things more than I do typing things and I don't know if that's because I'm getting older. No, I agree there, there is a connection to memory when you write things. But I do my rankings in Excel.

[Andy Holloway]

Stay water.

[Mike Wright]

So let's do this. We've got our, these are our consensus running back rankings 1 through 12. We're going to highlight these guys, maybe have a few debates, but number one, overwhelming. Probably not too many debates on this one. Le'Veon Bell, what say you? Is Le'Veon Bell deserving of this spot? Is there, is there an argument against him in this spot?

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, there is an argument against him. And the argument against him, his health is his knee is whether or not they're going to come back next year and say, you know, we brought him back. And when they brought him back last year, you know, he had a knee injury, not just the suspension. He got over that and they, they brought him in and he just got the workload. He was the guy. And now is there that thought in the coach's mind where you say, okay, we're going to bring him back, but we're not going to give him the same amount of workload. Make sure he's around. We need him in the playoffs. Would that be the concern to either of you two?

[Jason Moore]

No, it's not concerning to me at all simply because the knee injury he got this year was just one of those fluky tackles. His, his leg got stuck underneath him. Le'Veon Bell gives that team the best chance to win and Mike Tomlin knows that. That's why he gives him the work. He was on a pace of 19 carries and four catches of game. That's 301 carries and 64 catches, which is just absolutely ridiculous on the high powered offense that is the Pittsburgh Steelers. There's just, there's not, there's not much you can say about Lev Bell other than he is. He's at the top of all three of our boards. I would be hard to find. It would be hard pressed to find someone who thinks that Lev Bell isn't a top two back. In my opinion.

[Mike Wright]

I don't have much to add to that. I mean, obviously the catches for Lev Bell separate him from the competition. He's a great runner. I think everybody agrees with that. Patient runner. But to your question, I am not fearful of a limited workload. There are certain players, I think this goes, this is true of most superstars. In any situation. There are certain players where you just, it would take away so much of their value to limit them in some capacity. So much of what Love Bell does is get loose in the short passing game is, you know, you have the ability to give him the ball in a situation that you need big yards. And I just don't think in the modern NFL where You could lose to anybody on any week. It's going to be, oh, let's monitor his reps. I think what it will be, if you want one thing, they will make sure he is a healthy running back before he is on the field. That's what I believe.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, they. So, so would that possibly go into the beginning of the season? Could he miss a game?

[Mike Wright]

It doesn't look like it.

[Andy Holloway]

No, it doesn't.

[Mike Wright]

But it is. That would be the thing to monitor and change your draft position. And for him now, we had him suspended last year, right. For two games and the debate was how much do you move left Bell, because he was, he would have been the number one guaranteed. Eddie Lacy snuck in there. Other guys snuck in Adrian Peterson appropriately because you're going to miss two games. So if he was going to miss a little bit of time and it wasn't suspension, because suspension, you come back healthy, you would have to, you'd have to move him down. He'd move down my board a little bit if I knew he was going.

[Andy Holloway]

To miss you move down a couple spots. And also it's worth noting, I don't know if you said this, Andy, but just to reiterate or say for the first time, these rankings are in our preferred scoring format, half point.

[Jason Moore]

Very good point.

[Andy Holloway]

So that now Lev Bell is actually my number one on my board in all formats, including standard. But he does get that huge bump because he's such a good pass catching back. Worked in that area so much and with Martavis Bryant being out, maybe even more so.

[Mike Wright]

All right, well, Love Bell was number one and that is a good point, Jason. Now these are also ranking. We will post all the rankings in all the scoring formats on the website when, when they're completed, the early season rankings and they will change. Yeah, that's the one thing. If you listen to the show last Thursday, these things will change based on news and information. New information means you make a change to your plans. You don't lock them in unless you want to look stupid. That's the truth. Which you know, we're prone to do from time to time, but we try to avoid it never. All right, so Love Bell sits there at number one now number two. I can feel it already. It's getting a little hot in here. You feel that? Yeah, there's a little bit of heat. Jason's face says it all right here. Now number two on our consensus rankings. He's number two on both of your boards.

[Jason Moore]

He's number one in my heart though.

[Mike Wright]

Number two on both Your boards. He is number three on my board and half point and that's David Johnson. Now everybody's gonna look at you sideways.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Bring it.

[Mike Wright]

And they're going to say, well, there's a lot of questions absolutely. About David Johnson. How in the world. You're the hometown bias. That's what it is. You got him hanging on the wall.

[Jason Moore]

That's very, very fair. And I don't shy away from that. That there is, there is risk involved with David Johnson because the sample size is too small. In five season starts, 90 carries, 440 yards, four touchdowns, 17 catches and five starts for 216 yards and a touchdown, which those numbers are even, even harder to gauge because of the way the Cardinals season went with the final two games. You had the game against Green Bay, that was just a laughable blowout. The defense scored twice, Palmer was on fire. So that it's hard to gauge that that throws into the confusion. Then the final game of the week or final game of the season against Seattle, the team crapped their big boy pants and then just gave up. So it's, it's kind of difficult to, to really factor those in to the, the thing, to his overall production. But to me, just like Le'Veon Bell, it's the pass catching that separates David Johnson. He can have a bad game on the ground, give you maybe 30, 40 yards, but you're going to get 40 more yards through the air. And not just yards. David Johnson scores touchdowns through the air. The highest, the highest score through the air. Through the, the highest amount of touchdowns through the air. Danny Woodhead. Now, David Johnson had four, like I said, or four. I don't know if I had said that, but David Johnson had four. Here's the other players who had four. Charles Sims, Shane Vereen, James White and Kyle. We don't even know how to say his last name. Kyle Jusric. The guy from the Ravens who kept screwing up my Justin Force set touchdowns. However, look at all of those names, right? Those aren't high elite level running backs. Those are the secondary pass catching running backs. David Johnson is doing that, but he will give you a full time running back workload on the ground on top of that. That's why the potential is so massive for Johnson.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, part of being the hometown. I mean, we live in Arizona and we are unashamedly Cardinal fans. If you're watching YouTube, you can see that clearly. But that also gives us the advantage of really being able to. I mean, we watch with extra intensity all of these games. The speed that David Johnson has off the edge. His ability to catch the ball in stride and make moves and make guys miss is something that is genuinely special. It is not. It is not. Just so we talk about how opportunity is number one, talent is, is number two, but when you get that rare combination of, hey, you're, you're the guy who's going to be toting the ball the most, who's also going to be used in pass catching situations, and you are one of what has to be the three or four most talented running backs in the league. With that opportunity, it all comes together to push you really high.

[Mike Wright]

Anybody who owned David Johnson towards the end of the year understands the impact he had on your team during that time period. There are questions. When you get a full 16 game season with workload, can he hold up? Those question marks are going to be there that aren't there for an Adrian Peterson. Now you say all that though. I mean, one thing I love about the pass catching is averaging 12.7 a catch. Yeah, that's a very high number compared to the rest of the running backs in that category. The touchdown totals last year, eight in limited work as a starter, you had a lot of, you know, one thing you mentioned, Jason, you mentioned three or four things as points for David Johnson. What you didn't mention, or at least I didn't hear it right then, was that the offense for Arizona is elite. It's a prolific offense. This is a team that they come back pretty much full strength as they were last year, a 13.3team. You added Chandler Jones on defense. There aren't signs that this team isn't going to compete. And so that's what you love to see from a running back having a team in that situation. So I do not have him at number two in half or standard, but I do have him at number two in full ppr.

[Jason Moore]

My final point I'll throw in is he's the goal line back. Even before he was the full time featured back, he was the goal line back for Arizona. And there's no reason to think that Chris Johnson or Ellington will steal that away.

[Mike Wright]

All right, number three on our consensus list is my number two, the President, the President himself, President elect, President elect, Todd Gurley. Look, Gurley was as good as you could be as a rookie pretty much on an offense that struggled with finding a quarterback with, you know, moving the ball. He had a 4.8 average. He had 10 touchdowns as a rookie and he showed he could catch the ball a little bit when needed a little bit. And I Think that this is the reason Gurley and half point and standard leagues is my number two overall running back. I think there's upside, obviously, because of the youth. I think the, the team, despite its insistence upon case Keenum, the team is all right. And all right is okay to me, you know, you saw Adrian put that.

[Jason Moore]

On a bumper sticker.

[Mike Wright]

All right. Yes, it's the bumper sticker on, on Adrian Peterson's car.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, I say it's on Jeff Fisher's car. All right is excellence.

[Mike Wright]

All right. Is excellence. Yeah. So you saw Adrian Peterson have prolific years. I think that Gurley is just a talent that you mix with the workload. Like Jason said, you're not in as prolific of an offense, but I think the touchdown numbers are just going to be there for him. And I just, I just love Todd Gurley.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Oh, go ahead.

[Andy Holloway]

I agree. I think the comparisons to Adrian Peterson are very perfect. Very perfect coming out into the draft. You know, you hear from year to year, oh, this guy's Adrian Peterson level talent, but this one has actually hit it on the head and you've got a guy who's going to come out. So the question is, how many times is he going to get the ball? Is he going to get the ball near that 300 carry mark? If he gets it near that 300 carry mark, then he's going to be one of the best, you know, one or he's going to either finish number one or number two, you know, as low as he can go. But if he doesn't, he doesn't catch the ball at the same rate that we see some of these other top guys in our consistent, our consensus list doing. And so to me, the argument you made, Andy, on the team is really what puts David Johnson ahead of Todd Gurley. I think Todd Gurley is more talented despite the knee injury. I think Todd Gurley has kind of shown he can take that workload in his career in college and be a workhorse back. The difference is I think Arizona is going to put up a lot more points on the year than. Than Rams.

[Mike Wright]

If I was going to make an argument. Gurley, Johnson. I think a lot of people fall on the Gurley side. To me, don't you think the touchdown number for Gurley is more sustainable than the numbers you saw for David Johnson? You know, catching the ball on the ground. Yes, on the ground. That's what I'm referring to.

[Andy Holloway]

On the ground. Todd Gurley will have more touchdowns than David Johnson. But then when you supplement touchdowns through the air, if he.

[Mike Wright]

But that's the, that's the hard number to predict.

[Andy Holloway]

Right? Touchdowns are always the hard number to predict.

[Mike Wright]

Well, I mean, the specifically passing touch are very fair. You know, even somebody. Yeah, they go really here and there. With running back, someone like Sean McCoy. I don't know how many touchdowns McCoy had last year, one or two through the air. You think of him as a big time pass catching back. It's just a variable that is not, you know, how many of David Johnson's touchdowns through the air came before he was starting.

[Jason Moore]

And I think three of the four did. But what I'll throw out there, like I said, he's the goal lineback. Johnson had eight on the ground. David Johnson basically started five games.

[Mike Wright]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

And Todd Gurley started 12.

[Mike Wright]

11. Yeah, 12.

[Jason Moore]

Gurley started 12 games.

[Mike Wright]

There you go.

[Jason Moore]

So that's. I have no problem with. With Gurley. And four straight games of 100 yards. Best start as a rookie running back ever. The concern, like Jason said, is the touches he had, the back to back weeks against Cincinnati, nine touches, one catch against Arizona, nine carries. I mean, those. That's probably an outlier and a fluke of his career, but the fact that back to back weeks, that can happen is troublesome.

[Mike Wright]

All right, you guys ready to move on to the next name on our list? I was searching and failing to find the drop that was appropriate for this one, which was. Welcome back.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, yes, Mr. Jamal Charles.

[Mike Wright]

I don't know where it went now.

[Jason Moore]

Jamal Charles, to me it's a bit of a leap of faith, I think, going with Charles coming off of his second ACL tear, the talent level is elite. You have years and years of production to back that up. And here's what I loved about Jamal Charles last year. 30 targets in four and a half games. That's incredible. That's. He was basically on a pace for 80 catches. 80 catches.

[Andy Holloway]

You give Jamal Charles 80 catches on a year, he's the number one running back.

[Jason Moore]

Exactly. And so you give him this 80 catches. Like you look at a guy like Danny Woodhead, who was right around there without rushing attempts. And he's an RB one. So you give those to Charles, you're talking elite game changing running back. The rushing attempts were a little bit lower in games of 11, 11, 12, and I think he only played five. Played five games. So three of those five, he was under 13 carries, which is a little strange for Charles. But as long as you keep up those targets. Devonte Freeman has taught me one thing. You keep up those targets, you put up RB1 numbers.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, regardless of your yards per carry, which happened to be Jamal Charles strength. And one of the things happened to me five, that he's done better than anybody in history pretty much. Now I have Jamal Charles a little lower than you guys. I have him at seven in a standard league. We're talking about him as number four here in the consensus. So you guys both, both have the confidence, but I think the dance that we're all doing is the dance of mitigating a small amount of risk, not just in the injury, not necessarily re injury risk, just age coming back from injury. Let's see it again on the field. He is a match made in heaven for Alex Smith in that offense in that situation. You know, you saw the Chiefs put together one of the great ins to a season ever last year without their best weapon that they've had for the last five or six years. You mix in a maturing Kelsey, you still got Macklin, you've got Charles and you've got Andy Reed. Is this an offense that should be talked of in that upper third?

[Jason Moore]

It can. I think it'll be sort of. I would put it in the middle. The Justin Houston injury is a big time shot.

[Mike Wright]

They lost Abdullah today too.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, yeah. It's a retirement.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, he retired.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. And so, I mean those things really, really impact the defense. So that could have an effect on the overall game. Maybe we get a little bit more offense from, from the Chiefs if they have to put up more points to, to stay ahead in the game. But it's. But Jamal Charles, like I said, two ACL tears is troublesome. But the talent is just so elite that I will take the chance.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. And there is the worry of saying, well, Charkandrick west and Spencer Ware, they looked good last year and so they might not feel the need to really use Jamal Charles too much. He's 30, he's coming off the knee injury. But the worry is always mitigated by how efficient he is with the ball. He's always been over five yards of carry. And like Mike said, we forget before he went down with the knee injury, he was doing great for fantasy. He was, you know, a top fantasy option last year. And so even if he is only getting the ball 11, 12, 13 times a game, that's all Jamal Charles needs. And I'm not worried about him slowing down. You can argue another injury maybe, but I don't think he's going to slow.

[Mike Wright]

Down this look, I mean, Nile Davis, everybody wanted to talk about Nile Davis stealing workload from Jamal Charles. It didn't Materialize. You know, these guys, Char West, Spencer Ware, they are going to fall in line behind Charles. So I agree. The efficiency is the key there. Let's move through these. We've got Adrian Peterson at number five.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

So AP Tried and true. Just keeps doing it.

[Andy Holloway]

So tried and true that if you wanted to make him the number one pick in the draft, I would have zero problem.

[Jason Moore]

I wouldn't either.

[Mike Wright]

327 carries.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. He has fewer questions than all the guys we just talked about.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Because of his history, the fact that, you know he's going to get the ball 300 times.

[Mike Wright]

Is it worth taking any risk with those top four guys?

[Andy Holloway]

That's an honest question. I am. I am probably, of the three of us, the most. I value risk mitigation, I think more than you two. Mike, you get a little crazy with it. And you'll take your shots. Yes.

[Mike Wright]

Here, let me help you contextualize and I'll let you finish. Here's Adrian Peterson since 2007. Touchdown numbers. 12, 10, 18, 12, 12, 12, 10, the season off and 11. So, yeah, that's so talk about risk mitigation with numbers like that.

[Andy Holloway]

So when you have numbers like that, look, if. If all of these players we just talked about perform to the best of their ability, Adrian Peterson will not finish as the number one running back because he is not involved in the passing game nearly as much as most of these other options. But if they all do what you kind of have as their. As their, you know, their absolute baseline, because you take a look at David Johnson, who I love, I think he's going to be great, but we haven't seen it yet. If it comes out next year and all of a sudden shocking to our expectations, he's in a 60, 40 or a 50, 50 timeshare. He's not going to be the back, we think. But Adrian Peterson, you know what you're getting and you know you have to weigh, do you value the risk mitigation? And it's a matter of where that baseline is, because Adrian Peterson's baseline is still elite. So you're not going. Well, I'm going to take an average guy that I know over potential. You're taking a great player who you know over potentially better. And so for me, if I'm on the clock, I very well. Depending on the league I'm in and the format, I very well might take Adrian Peterson ahead of all of those guys we just talked about.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I got no problem with Peterson going number one. The question mark. And it's not even that big of a question mark. I just wanted to bring it up again, is Jerick McKinnon. I feel like, I guess you were just talking a personal opinion, that they really found something, a strength in Jerick McKinnon at the end of last year and that was catching the ball. I think McKinnon gets on the field more and more this year. That's. That's not to say that Peterson's not going to get his 250 rushing attempts. So. Or so. But I think McKinnon will be a factor in Minnesota.

[Mike Wright]

You think McKinnon will be.

[Jason Moore]

Yes.

[Mike Wright]

Okay. So, I mean, the arguments for Adrian Peterson are consistency.

[Jason Moore]

You're going to get 10 touchdowns from Adrian Peterson.

[Mike Wright]

And so I think a lot of people will draft Peterson in as it depends on the risk, mitigation and whether they like the upside, whether they like the excitement of a new name, a Todd Gurley, a David Johnson, or the tried and true. And you build some of those lottery ticket type players into the rest of your draft. All right, number six on our rankings. Begrudgingly for me.

[Jason Moore]

What? Where do you have him?

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I am curious where you have.

[Mike Wright]

Him, because I knew, let me say before I give the name, I have him at 10. I have him at 10 and a half. He's 10 across the board for me.

[Andy Holloway]

So who's pushing?

[Jason Moore]

That's me.

[Andy Holloway]

That's you.

[Mike Wright]

Because I was going to say respectful.

[Andy Holloway]

I think he's a little higher. What, do you have him as number one?

[Mike Wright]

All right.

[Jason Moore]

No.

[Mike Wright]

So let me help people out.

[Jason Moore]

I'm at 4.

[Mike Wright]

You remember when he does consensus, he waits his own.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Mark Ingram is the name that has yet to be revealed. Mark Ingram is number, number six on the consensus rankings, thanks to Mike.

[Andy Holloway]

Four for Mike, seven for me and 10 for Andy. So he's still absolutely top 10. Mike believes he is going to be definitely elite. Right. So, Mike, why don't you talk about him?

[Mike Wright]

All right, you can.

[Jason Moore]

I gave a pretty strong case for Mark Ingram during the election episode, but the just to get every summary of it, his pace was over 220 carries, thousand yards, eight touchdowns. The big thing for Mark Ingram, like I've been talking about with these other guys, is the catches. His role as a pass catcher, we hadn't seen it before, so maybe that's the knock that, that Andy has over there is there's not the history built in that Mark Ingram being the pass catcher he had, he was on pace for 67 catches. To me, Mark Ingram gives that team the best chance to win and if he can do both, why take him off the field? Why have that predictability of Here comes Cadet? They're going to pass and knowing that on second down, on third down, you're like, oh, they're going to pass every single time. I think Ingram gives them an extra dynamic because of that. The talent level of Ingram is there. He had 81 evaded tackles last year. That's fourth among running backs and that's in only 12 games. C.J. spiller. Is C.J. spiller anything.

[Andy Holloway]

I still feel like, and this is a little bit silly and hearsay, but I still feel like CJ Spiller, they're just holding on to him until every team has found their running back needs and then they're going to cut him because they hate him just to ruin his life.

[Mike Wright]

A punishment.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes. It's like, wait, well, we, we're going to cut CJ And Sean Payne's like, not yet you're not. He could go and find a team.

[Jason Moore]

They owe him too much. Guaranteed money.

[Mike Wright]

I can tell you. I'll tell you my counterpoint on him. And let me, let me preface by saying, when you debate rankings like this, it's hilarious because I am now taking some sort of oppositional point to Mark Ingram, who is 10th on my running back list.

[Andy Holloway]

And all these guys are separated by.

[Mike Wright]

Like, not a lot of, not a ton of points necessarily. However, the reason he's 10 on my list has to do with. I can give you one number. The number is 12.

[Jason Moore]

Yep.

[Andy Holloway]

Average games played.

[Mike Wright]

That's his average games played over the last five years. Mark Ingrid. And look, that is a pattern. A five year pattern of average games played of 12 tells me maybe the Saints need to keep him off the field a little bit. And so I don't have him majorly behind the stat numbers that you put out there. But I'm not projecting that reception total to increase. I have it decreasing a little bit over the course of a full 16 game season. I still have it a little lower than last year. And that puts him at number 10. He is super reliable. To me, he's a guy that if I could somehow end up with him in the second round after drafting an upside running back in the first round, I would do dances all over the place. Right. All over my. C.J. spiller Fathead. I would, I would dance all over that. Because Mark Ingram's great. And he did. He gives hope to anybody who wants to project receptions for a running back that's never had them before because he wasn't that guy. Everybody kept Saying last year, right. Oh, it's C.J. spiller. They brought him. Even the Saints said it. The Saint said we need to bring in a pass catching back that you know, it's not Darren Sprouls, it's not Pierre Thomas anymore. We need to bring in C.J. spiller. And what you didn't. Because Ingram went out there and showed he could do it. And I'm with you, man. Teams that bring in that third down back and it guarantees a certain type of a play, it's more, it's more so you don't have the option to do that like efficient draw play with a good guy like Ingram between the tackle guy because he's off the field. So I hate taking guys off the field. I hate taking AP off the field.

[Andy Holloway]

That being said, Sean Payton's pretty much always used three backs.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

The last several years. It's been a long time since, you know Deuce McAllister was the end all be all running back.

[Mike Wright]

The horse of the.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Moore]

And I completely agree with. With your negatives on him and especially the injury. Only one season he's played one full season and the rest of them are under 13 or 13 games or under. And so it's. That's a risk.

[Mike Wright]

But people that means the risk. I will take arguments about Arian Foster last year for similar reasons. So I know the way it feels to have that, you know, you're projecting and predicting health to a degree.

[Andy Holloway]

That being said, there are certain situations like this one where you if you draft Mark Ingram, I don't think Tim Hightower is going to be the type of guy assuming he gets resigned that that is even drafted unless it's drafted by the Mark Ingram owner. And if you own Mark Ingram then you have who proved to be a really good capable handcuff that you can get sometimes, you know, in years past it's like, oh, I'm going to get this guy now I've got to take their handcuff but it's going to cost me an eighth round or their handcuff.

[Jason Moore]

Is trash and you know you're not going to get anything.

[Andy Holloway]

Right.

[Mike Wright]

Kyrie was probably in the same category last year too.

[Jason Moore]

Yes.

[Mike Wright]

So you're right. That is nice to have a guy that's potential top five pick like Mike has him that has a handcuff that's affordable. So not. And it's not like.

[Andy Holloway]

And he is going. Mark Ingram right now is going in the back of the second round.

[Mike Wright]

That's.

[Andy Holloway]

That's a delight.

[Mike Wright]

Well and that, that is an encouragement to those that would like to draft Antonio Brown or Julio Jones in the first round as well. You pair those two, that's your starting roster.

[Jason Moore]

That's ridiculous.

[Mike Wright]

That would be really nice.

[Andy Holloway]

So, hey, who else is going in the back of the second round? The next guy on our list.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, but the next guy on our list will not be on this show. Stick around because we are doing. We're going to break this up. We thought we might get through more but we're going to do the next six on Thursday show for this early running back rankings because we are getting towards the end of the show and we want to get some mailbag questions answered on this show.

[Jason Moore]

That's a surprise even to me. Foot clan it what it is.

[Mike Wright]

It's a surprise. A television style.

[Andy Holloway]

I like it.

[Mike Wright]

Teaser.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, man.

[Mike Wright]

We got the next six on the Thursday show.

[Andy Holloway]

The next six. We're going to get some heated debate.

[Mike Wright]

That's right. So stay tuned for that. You got your overview on our top six running back consensus rankings. If you have a question for the show, you can send it in the fantasy footballers.com submit a question. We're trying to answer as many as we can of those questions that come in. So we're going to get into the mailbag right now.

[Andy Holloway]

Mailbag. Mailbag.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. It's time. Let's go ahead and jump into the voicemail and we're going to answer a voicemail question first. You can call us 302464, TFFB if you want to leave us a voicemail question. Keep those brief to the point. It lets us put more of them on the show obviously, as opposed to very long ones that are maybe in a train tunnel. Yeah. All right, here we go.

[Jason Moore]

Hey, guys.

[Nick Mangold]

Huff Daddy in Tulsa, Oklahoma, killer podcast, specifically like your political show, which is fitting since my question is how to lobby for a rule change in the way we do waivers. In the league that I'm in, it's a 16 team redraft league with 18 man roster. So it's pretty deep. They currently do orders.

[Mike Wright]

Excuse me.

[Nick Mangold]

They currently do their waiver order in a way where every week it resets and the team with the worst record always has top priority, even if they draft or they burn their waiver every week. My argument is this isn't really fair. If you start the year off like I did thanks to your show nine zero last year, you know, you never really get a chance to make a pick off of waivers because with that many people, 16 teams, there's three or four guys every week and they're always gone. So I'm trying to lobby for a fab type bidding system or possibly at minimum every week, if you burn your waiver priority, you at least have to drop to the bottom so other people get a chance to bid on somebody throughout the season. So help me make the argument to switch the waiver process. What do I need to say to convince the commissioner to do so? Thanks, guys.

[Andy Holloway]

It's a great question.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. And I had to do that in one of my leagues. My friend is the commissioner and he was. It took a. Took some time to get him on the fab train. And like the biggest, the biggest pro of fab is that it's fair, it's equal, Everyone has a chance. If you, you are not, you don't receive a benefit from losing. Say, why should we give someone who has lost a better advantage when it can be an equal thing across all of the teams?

[Andy Holloway]

Now that's a good point. But I will say this as someone who, when I first started playing fantasy football like, you know, 20 years ago, I don't know how long it was, I was a proponent for this garbage system he has set up where the worst record gets refreshed every week. Where every week the worst record gets it. Because I thought that was good for parody, for fairness for everybody. You know what I mean? Let the bad teams get the good guys so that the whole league stays better. Then I realized that doesn't help as much. But my point here is he's talking about lobbying. Right. The political aspect. And what happens is you will have players who think this is good for letting everybody be involved. And the reality is, I think that the way you focus your argument is on strategy is on the fun. And the fact that it just adds so much more strategy into your fantasy league for everybody. And it's really a fun feature in the sense that there's a whole new element where every week you're, you're getting to try to blindly compete. Yeah. It's competition.

[Mike Wright]

And there's another day where you get to see the reveal of who get got players off of their. Off of fat.

[Andy Holloway]

Did you make a good call on your. On your budget? And then of course, it is still fair. And, and there's parity because if you spent for the big guy, now you're out of money.

[Mike Wright]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

So I love the fact it's like a baby draft.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. So I do like Jason's perspective on the lobbying there. It is better strategy and you're not giving an advantage to good teams. Either you're just evening the playing field and making people responsible for themselves. And in a league where you only got 12 games, you know, in a season, giving the worst team the best picks for the first three or four isn't fair. It's not fair to the rest of the league. All right, Zach and Des Moines. I have the ninth overall pick and can keep two the following AB or OBJ. Oh, in the first round, Lev Bell second round, Greg Olson, seventh round, Doug Martin ninth, Ivory 12th or Lockett 14th. Too many appealing combos. Any help would be great.

[Jason Moore]

Ten team PPR man.

[Mike Wright]

Yes, sir.

[Jason Moore]

All right, so to me there are four possible choices out of his.

[Andy Holloway]

This is pretty easy and obvious. Well, it's, I think it's a home run.

[Jason Moore]

I'm taking Brown or Beckham and I personally would take Antonio Brown. And then you have Lev Bell in the second versus Dougie in the ninth. A massive value of Doug Martin, who is likely a running back one. So do you want the best running back in the second or do you want a guy who's in the middle of the running back ones, but you get him in the ninth, I'm going.

[Andy Holloway]

To take both of those guys. I'm going to take Lev Bell in the second and Doug Martin in the ninth. Levy on Bell, you can argue should be the first pick in the, in the whole draft in the first round and you're getting them in the second round and then you get Doug Martin in the ninth, what you're not getting any value for. I mean, I, I don't think anyone.

[Mike Wright]

Was going to bring that option up and that was what I was going to do as well. It gives you flexibility in the first round. You could take a Gronk in the first if you wanted to or you take.

[Andy Holloway]

Or one of these two guys, you know, Antonio Brown and OBJ are going back in. There's probably some other wide receivers. So for me, I think you keep your first round pick, you keep Levy on Bell, who's worth a first round pick and Doug Martin in the ninth is like. That's just, that's just easy.

[Jason Moore]

Yes.

[Mike Wright]

Yep.

[Andy Holloway]

It's hard to give up Antonio Brown and OBJ there, but that's what I.

[Mike Wright]

Would do in a ppr.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, Levy a Bell in a PPR.

[Jason Moore]

Is just as I would take Bell and Brown.

[Mike Wright]

Okay, are we up to Sam here? Sam Holt and Topeka.

[Andy Holloway]

Can Brown, even though they're both on the same team.

[Jason Moore]

Yep.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay.

[Mike Wright]

I can keep Rawls for $10 and Big Ben for 15 or potentially package them together. And trade for a $15 clear cut wide receiver one like ODB or Hopkins. What would you do? So would rather have Rawls and Big Ben or would you rather have so starting in an auction league or would you rather have ODB or Hopkins and.

[Jason Moore]

You got to factor in the auction value. So Big Ben and Rawls for $25 or $15 for Beckham or Hopkins?

[Mike Wright]

Give me I take a $15 back.

[Jason Moore]

Give me Beckham for $15.

[Andy Holloway]

Unanimous.

[Mike Wright]

All right. And that's a half point PPR league too. Neil Hudson in golden Colorado I've had a lot of success with this in daily fantasy sports but since you guys are buying into a single game script rather than an entire season, I've avoided it in the season long. That being said, while mocking I found myself with Brandon Marshall on my roster and Decker on the board way later than he should be or Allen Robinson and Hearns in the same situation. It's hard to pass up on that value. But is it too much risk having guys on the same team? Do you do your thoughts for this change at all for a wide receiver and running back duo? Which is a perfect follow up question.

[Jason Moore]

For the Bell Brown Generally speaking I don't prefer to have a wide receiver and a running back on the same team. That said, there are a few few instances that break up that that rule when it's on a really high powered offense like the Steelers, the Cardinals, generally the packers, maybe Patriots like if you're talking Edelman Lewis or even Gronk Lewis because you're just pass catcher. So there are, there are teams where I won't shy away from it and as far as owning a wide receiver one and two from the same team, it's the same deal.

[Andy Holloway]

It's like a team dependent situation. Dependent. It's not a rule.

[Mike Wright]

I do shy away from that. Yes I do because I, I don't like all the potential scenarios that can play out for my team when I have both, which is okay, I play the one and I don't play the two and the two every third week surpasses the one and I hate myself be so frustrating. Or I play them both and you cap the total production unless you have a perfect gorgeous matchup. I mean playing Marshall Decker all last year would have been fine but there aren't very many situations like that so I tend to avoid it.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. And I would just throw out one last thing. Sometimes there is a an argument here made that well, you've got the handcuff right. So if either guy gets injured the other Guy is better. But that's not always the case for wide receivers. We saw that last year with Jordy Nelson going down and Randall Cobb not being able to really fill that number one role. Now he's got the number one defense. It's not always that easy when it comes to wide receivers thinking you've got, you know, a handcuff.

[Jason Moore]

And that's another pair. Cobb, Jordy back during the Manning years, Sanders, Thomas. I mean, there's. There are teams where you have two great wide receivers and they put up enough points.

[Mike Wright]

That's Gerald Bolden.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Back in the day.

[Andy Holloway]

And I think the rule of thumb there is, are you going to start both of these guys? Yep. If you're going to. If you're going to draft these guys and say, I want to start both every week, then you're fine doing.

[Jason Moore]

Here's. Here's an interesting one because this one will involve speculation you're in a ppr. Jarvis Landry and Devonte Parker. Would you be willing to draft both of those guys?

[Mike Wright]

I would because of the value I'd get on Parker.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. If you're getting a guy late because then you.

[Mike Wright]

You're playing into him being having this tremendous upside, but you're not risking as much.

[Jason Moore]

Right. Well, but that's Parker. That puts him in the Decker range from last year. I think Parker will be a ninth round.

[Andy Holloway]

Eighth.

[Jason Moore]

Ninth round.

[Mike Wright]

And I would do that. Yes. For the upside.

[Jason Moore]

And that's with Hearns. Hearns. I don't even know if he got drafted.

[Mike Wright]

It's a good way to look at it, though, because if you look at it that way with the upside, it's an interesting decision to make. All right, I have a question here from Crawford in Vancouver. He wants some clarity. The keeper rules that Jason talked about a couple episodes back. He said his buddy, his buddies and him are going to start a keeper league for next season. They're not sure how it should work. The main problem was keeping a player and losing a pick works how that works because they randomize the redraft order. For example, if he takes Love Bell first overall this year, keep him for next year, but end up with the 12th overall pick in the following year's draft. It doesn't seem fair. Is the redraft order the same every year or do you just accept that there will be a good amount of luck involved?

[Jason Moore]

There is a.

[Mike Wright]

There's a couple easy answers for that.

[Jason Moore]

To me, it's just round value. If you happen to get Bell at the back of the first, I tip my Cap to you and you got Le'Veon Bell at the back of the first round.

[Mike Wright]

Well, my. And generally you don't necessarily do random redraft.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, you're saying you don't randomize.

[Mike Wright]

You don't randomize the situation. So you have, you have reverse order of standings. If you were to do it that way, then you are at least appropriately distributing.

[Jason Moore]

And that's, that's how we do it in our league. My picks, my other keeper league is random. It's random every single year.

[Mike Wright]

Okay.

[Jason Moore]

And what you can actually do in that league is you can't trade draft picks, but you can trade your draft slot. So let's say I, I'm, I'm first. I get the first overall pick and there's someone.

[Andy Holloway]

You swap the entire draft.

[Jason Moore]

Yes. And there's someone at the back of the first who wants to move up because then they'll get a better player. I get to, I get better keeper value for my first round pick. And we can, we can trade those.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. So essentially, Crawford, here's the deal. It's not unfair. It's, it is a tip of the cap. Whether or not you choose to randomize the order or go based on standings, it's fine either way. The only other rule that I usually talk about when it comes to the keeper waiver system is what to do with free agent guys that you get. And I will say this, probably the most agreed upon here between the three of us would be to take the waiver guy, use his average draft position at whatever date you guys decide at the draft or whenever, minus around. So for me, if it's my vote, I say you don't keep waivers. But the worst thing you could do is say you get a waiver for the last pick in the draft. I just think that's.

[Mike Wright]

Is there any way I could talk you out of that?

[Jason Moore]

This is Jason.

[Andy Holloway]

No way you could talk.

[Mike Wright]

Jason stumps one try.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay. Give me your best shot.

[Jason Moore]

Give me your best shot.

[Mike Wright]

We just made a big compelling argument about fab and the value of fab and the strategy of fab. What does that revolve around? It revolves around making strategic, smart, ingenious waiver wire selections. Now you're going to take a keeper league, which once again we say, hey, you just set the rules the other day. Keeper leagues, more fun, more strategy. Year round league. You're going to take this strategic component of waiver wire and you're going to reward somebody for spending their fab strategically. Not at all. You're not going to reward them at all. Now, I'm fine with the ADP minus around. That's a small reward. But telling them they can't keep them is revolting.

[Andy Holloway]

Nope, it is not. And here's why. Because while at week one you're fine on that, a lot of times what ends up happening is the keeper you're going to grab. You know, you get late and you didn't do it because you had the better situation. You did it because other guys spent their fabric and you had $1 more.

[Mike Wright]

That's the part of the strategy. That's the only reason you got him.

[Andy Holloway]

Sure, but it's not going into the draft. You didn't do that at the draft. You did that in the season. Nobody in the entire league, not one player thought, you know what? This guy's worth drafting with a late flyer. And he turns out to be Odell Beckham. And because of all of your stupidity in your league, you get him for the last pick in your next draft.

[Mike Wright]

That's fine, silly. We'll get to the end here. I see the gap between us. I understand what it is. You are basing your keeper league picks on the draft. And I'm saying it should be a reward of your play during the year.

[Andy Holloway]

Not a reward during the year.

[Mike Wright]

Exactly. So that's the difference between them.

[Andy Holloway]

Yep.

[Mike Wright]

So, all right, that's it for today's show. Like I said, we got the next six running backs on Thursday show. Stay tuned for that. I'm sure we will have more revolting debates for you or just some really good one.

[Andy Holloway]

But we're not done today.

[Jason Moore]

YouTube, if you're on the podcast, in the audio version of the podcast, jump on that YouTube because we're doing this thing, this hip thing called the show after the show where we take a topic that may seem ridiculous, like pitting a lion against a grizzly bear, and we talk it out. We get the talking points, the same.

[Mike Wright]

Principles, the way that we approach ridiculous in fantasy football to these various debates and we don't even know what today's is. We have a number of ideas. I'm sure we will select a funny one. So Stay subscribe on YouTube. Check that out on there. And thank you very much for listening to the show. We really appreciate each and every one of you listeners out there as an independent podcast. You are 100% why we do this. It's because of you all the participation on Twitter, @ the FF Ballers and with us individually on YouTube, subscribing to the podcast, leaving reviews, all of that is the foundation upon which this show is built. And so we thank you sincerely from the bottom of our running back ranking. Hearts.

[Jason Moore]

Yes, it's a tip of the cap to all the listeners out there. Go Foot Clan.

[Mike Wright]

Go Foot Clan.

[Jason Moore]

Jason, goodbye.

[Andy Holloway]

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy Footballers Podcast. Join our fantasy football community on jointhefoot.com and follow us on Twitter the FFBall.