Fantasy Football Podcast 2016 - Early Top 10 Tight Ends, Fantasy News

Summary

Podcast Summary: Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast

Episode: Fantasy Football Podcast 2016 - Early Top 10 Tight Ends, Fantasy News
Release Date: April 12, 2016
Hosts: Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, Mike "The Fantasy Hitman" Wright

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Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of the Fantasy Footballers podcast, the hosts delve into the intricacies of the tight end position, discussing early top 10 rankings, recent fantasy news, and offering expert analysis to help listeners optimize their fantasy football teams ahead of the upcoming season.

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Listener Review

Timestamp [08:18] - Jason Moore: A listener named Larucifer praises the podcast as "the best around," highlighting its insightful analysis and engaging humor. Larucifer notes, "it really just seems like you're in a room with friends talking fantasy football. The difference is these guys know what they're talking about, unlike the Jabronis you know."

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Fantasy News Update

Timestamp [09:26] - Andy Holloway:

• Lashawn McCoy Update: The NFL is unlikely to discipline McCoy following his nightclub incident, relieving dynasty and keeper league managers who may have been wary of his status. Andy mentions, "you can probably still take advantage of some of that doubt in your dynasty or keeper leagues."

• Nick Foles and the Rams: Reports from Mike Florio suggest the Rams are moving on from Nick Foles. The hosts debate the implications, with Mike describing Foles as "just a Jeff Fisher guy, you know, just a little bit below mediocre."

• Jets Acquire Ryan Clady: The Jets have traded for Ryan Clady to bolster their offensive line. Jason Moore remarks, "I think it's a good deal. I think it's going to help their O line," emphasizing the importance of a strong offensive line for both running and passing games.

• Ryan Fitzpatrick's Contract: The Jets publicly disputed reports of offering Fitzpatrick an $8.1 million contract, indicating financial tensions within the team. Mike notes, "I don't think it's as far and away as it used to be," suggesting concerns about the team's financial management.

• Colin Kaepernick Discussion: There are ongoing discussions about Colin Kaepernick and his potential return, with the Broncos considering trading for Josh McCown as an alternative.

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Top 10 Tight Ends Ranking

The hosts present their consensus top 10 tight ends, engaging in lively debates about each player's value, consistency, and potential impact on fantasy teams.

#1 Rob Gronkowski

• Andy Holloway [21:09]: "Rob Gronkowski led the league with 16.33 yards per reception and has a proven track record of double-digit touchdowns every year."

• Mike Wright [22:13]: While acknowledging Gronk's elite status, Mike suggests the gap between Gronk and other tight ends has "closed a bit," making Gronk a less tempting first-round pick for some.

#2 Jordan Reed

• Jason Moore [22:13]: "Jordan Reed is not riskier than Gronkowski. He has a high catch percentage and developed great chemistry with Kirk Cousins."

• Andy Holloway [25:28]: Emphasizes Jordan Reed's reliability, stating, "There’s nothing negative to say about Jordan Reed. Jordan Reed is awesome. We love Jordan Reed."

#3 Kobe Fleener

• Jason Moore [30:14]: "Kobe Fleener is available late in drafts and has the potential to finish in the top five. He’s been under the radar but is poised to break out."

• Andy Holloway [31:05]: "Kobe Fleener is more than capable of being what he is, which is a pass-catching tight end. It's inevitable that his hype train will begin."

#4 Gary Barnage

• Mike Wright [34:26]: Supports Barnage's high ranking due to his target volume in the Cleveland Browns offense. "They schemed and they gave him a contract. He was a part of this team going forward."

• Jason Moore [35:24]: Challenges Barnage's ranking based on his inconsistent target history, but concedes, "there are some other factors for the Cleveland Browns. I’m buying into him because of the target volume."

#5 Travis Kelsey

• Andy Holloway [36:12]: Projects Kelsey to reach 1,000 yards, believing that defensive changes will lead to increased utilization. "He's going to be in ADP value because of all the hype last year, the disappointment."

• Mike Wright [39:16]: Questions the projection, asking, "What is your thought process behind getting him to play 1,000 yards?"

#6 Greg Olson

• Andy Holloway [43:46]: Acknowledges Olson's consistency but remains cautious about his touchdown potential. "Greg Olson is great. There's not really a debate there."

• Jason Moore [44:03]: Emphasizes Olson's reliability, stating, "the guy I want the most in the draft on my teams is actually Greg Olson for consistency."

#7 Zach Ertz

• Jason Moore [45:07]: Highlights Ertz's consistent performance and potential for improvement. "He should have had at least three more touchdowns last year."

• Andy Holloway [48:32]: Notes Ertz's high catch rate and chemistry with his quarterback as key strengths.

#8 Tyler Ifert

• Jason Moore [50:33]: Advises against overvaluing Ifert despite his impressive touchdown numbers, "I'm going to target very few guys. I'm going to target Greg Olson for consistency, Kobe Fleener if he's in the 8th or somewhere around there."

• Mike Wright [50:07]: "Tyler Ifert should be the number two target in that offense. So that's the problem with ifrt. It's not a huge problem."

#9 Delaney Walker

• Andy Holloway [52:31]: Supports Walker's ranking based on his career year and consistency. "Delaney Walker is a reliable week-to-week guy."

• Jason Moore [53:26]: Praises Walker's performance, "Delaney Walker had a career year with 1088 yards and six touchdowns."

#10 Antonio Gates

• Mike Wright [55:40]: Projects Gates to remain a top target in the Chargers' offense. "Philip Rivers to Antonio Gates is just a perfect connection."

• Jason Moore [56:39]: Considers Gates a solid late-round pick, emphasizing his proven connection with Rivers.

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Additional Notes on Rankings

• Amateur Standouts: The hosts acknowledge other talented tight ends like Austin Severin Jenkins and Will Ty, discussing their potential rise in fantasy rankings.

• Injuries and Consistency: A recurring theme is the impact of injuries on tight ends' performances. Players like Jordan Reed have a high target percentage but also a history of injuries, making consistency a key point of discussion.

• Draft Strategies: The hosts advise against overcommitting to tight ends early in drafts due to the depth of the position. They recommend targeting reliable and consistent players rather than chasing high-risk high-reward options.

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Final Thoughts and Conclusion

The episode concludes with the hosts reiterating the depth of the tight end position, encouraging listeners to remain flexible in their draft strategies and consider streaming the position throughout the season. They emphasize the importance of understanding each player's role within their team and projecting based on consistent performance rather than hype.

Andy Holloway [62:33]: "Rob Gronkowski, Jordan Reed, Kobe Fleener, Gary Barnage, Travis Kelsey, Greg Olson, Zach Ertz, Tyler Ifert, Delaney Walker, Antonio Gates."

The hosts remind listeners to engage with their community through the website and social media for further insights and discussions.

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Notable Quotes:

• Andy Holloway [01:03]: "This episode is so jam-packed with fantasy goodness that you could cut it with a fork and eat it, and it would taste incredible."

• Jason Moore [22:13]: "I think there are 18 tight ends that if you leave with one in the draft, you're going to be okay."

• Mike Wright [31:58]: "I think it is realistic that Kobe Fleener, because of all the tight ends, people are going to fall in love with any number of guys."

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This comprehensive analysis provided by the Fantasy Footballers offers invaluable insights into tight end rankings and fantasy strategies, equipping listeners with the knowledge needed to dominate their fantasy leagues.

Transcript

[Mike Wright]

Hey, Foot Clan. Before we start today's show, I want to tell you about footballhaul.com look, we've all heard of these monthly box subscription plans, and now we have one for the football fan. It is fantastic. It's like having 12 birthdays a year with these mystery boxes of sweet NFL gear, and you get $75 worth of NFL merchandise for just 30 bucks. You check out these custom figurines that we have on our desk, and you get things specific to your team. I got this amazing Arizona Cardinals fleece blanket in the mail last month. It was spectacular. So head over to footballhaulhaul.com and you know what? You use promo code BALLERS5, and you save five bucks on your first purchase.

[Jason Moore]

Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast with your host, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike Wright.

[Andy Holloway]

Hey, what's going on, people? It is Tuesday. It is April 12, and I am telling you right now, I already tweeted this. This episode is so jam packed with fantasy goodness that you could cut it with a fork and eat it, and it would taste incredible.

[Jason Moore]

I think it's gonna give your belly some issues, though, because this show's gonna be hot. There's gonna be some fighting.

[Andy Holloway]

I see. I don't. I disagree. I don't think there'll be as much fighting as you think, but it's really up to you.

[Jason Moore]

We'll see. I brought some weapons below the desk, so we'll. Okay. I don't know if I'll bring.

[Mike Wright]

Well, look, what I like is that we're doing tight ends today. And look. Tight end. This is kind of the, you know, the. The neglected position. People don't care so much about it, but it is deep this year, and. And there are options, and there are different takes coming from the three of us. So I'm. I am super stoked for this show.

[Andy Holloway]

I. And you can feel the swell of momentum in the fantasy world right now. I'm sweaty. We have got. Wait, that's not what I meant. And you should wear deodorant.

[Mike Wright]

We've got.

[Andy Holloway]

We've gone through our early rankings, and we're publishing our rankings on the site. They're already up. They're up. They're up. I mean, it's Tuesday.

[Mike Wright]

Okay?

[Andy Holloway]

They went up last night, and they're all there for you to see. You can download them. You can compare and contrast the three of our rankings. You can see our consensus rankings, and you can get a gauge for what we think about players right now before the rookies come in. Obviously, they're Going to change. The rankings will change, but there is a momentum. So much is happening in the fantasy world. Today's our top 10 tight ends. We're going to go through those. The consensus top 10. We got mailbag in today's episode. We got a bunch of news to break down for you. I'm excited. I mean, this. It's coming. The season is coming quick and it will be here before you know it. And I got to get your team right.

[Mike Wright]

I saw a. Someone had put up a post that said there was only 22 Sundays until fantasy football.

[Andy Holloway]

I love that. I love counting down that way.

[Mike Wright]

That's not bad.

[Andy Holloway]

TikTok.

[Mike Wright]

I'll take it.

[Jason Moore]

Here it comes. And the NFL draft is like a minute.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

A minute from now.

[Andy Holloway]

One minute. Count it down. And I should add this. Mike and I are talking tight ends. Jason is talking kickers only today.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, I love me some. If you.

[Andy Holloway]

Because that's the position you find neglected.

[Jason Moore]

You know that the kickers are a position that I love. That's hard to say.

[Andy Holloway]

He stopped talking.

[Mike Wright]

He almost vomited.

[Andy Holloway]

All right, that's like the pin is blue. Scene from Liar Liar. Kickers are the. Yeah, can't do it. All right, quick question for the day. I've got a good one. I'm trying to stump you guys before I get into that. You can check us out on the web at the fantasy footballers.com on Twitter at the FF Ballers, you can follow Mike at FF Hitman, follow Jason at Jason FFL, or myself at Andy Holloway. We have. We got the website jointhefoot.com our fantasy football community. A lot of people getting involved on join the Foot.com you can get an extra episode every week because you need more. I mean, honestly, who doesn't need more? And you can check us out on Facebook, on the Fantasy Sports network and on YouTube. So on YouTube today, Jason's going to be sharing in the show, after the show a little story time about his phobia. So if you don't know Jason's phobia, you'll want to tune in for that. But quick question of the day. Back to fantasy football. This player, you guys try to figure this out. This player was targeted on 100 passes in 2015.

[Mike Wright]

Exactly 100.

[Andy Holloway]

Exactly 100. He had zero drops. Zero. And he played over a thousand snaps. And he actually won the Pro Football Focus Best Hands award because of this. So I know you probably have some guesses right out of the gate.

[Mike Wright]

I've put my hands in the triangle formation and pressing my index fingers to my lips as to look like I'm thinking.

[Andy Holloway]

Sure, it's a difficult thing.

[Jason Moore]

I'll guess first then. Okay, my guess. And I thought he had over 100, so that might disqualify him if this is exactly 100. But I know he had at least 100 catches and that his yards per catch went down this year because of poor quarterback play.

[Andy Holloway]

Now, did you mean 100 catches when you said it just now?

[Jason Moore]

I did not. I meant 100 targets. I'm going to go with Jason Whitten, who plays on almost every snap at over 100 targets. And you know, he's got solid hands, snaps.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, I like that guess for Jason Wynton. I'm going to go. I feel like he's got drops, but I'm going to go with Greg Olson.

[Andy Holloway]

It is Jason Whitney.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

And it is appropriate for this episode. Obviously, talking tight ends, Jason Whitten did not crack our top 10 consensus, so we won't be discussing him at length today. But he's deserving of being brought up right now because tried and true. Jason Whitten, what that must be like. I mean, I have the most minuscule idea from playing flag football at when you, when you. No, no, listen. All I was saying, this is when you throw the ball to somebody, they catch it 100% of the time. You put it near them. That'd be amazing.

[Mike Wright]

Well, that's. If you would target me.

[Andy Holloway]

What I'm saying is, I want. Yeah, well, I tried, you remember.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

In warm ups.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

And it didn't work out, did it? Broke your thumb. All right, so. Yes, Jason Whitten. Look, if you don't end up with one of those guys at the very top end of the tight ends, which I think a lot of us are kind of in this group conceding, we might not right in our in leagues because they might go higher. The Jordan Reeds, the Rob Gronkowskis. If you don't end up, I mean, are you in good shape with Jason Whitten?

[Jason Moore]

Yes. You are absolutely fine with Jason Whitten. I had tweeted out this week that I think there are 18 tight ends that if you leave with the draft with one of them, you're going to be okay. You, you've got a guy that could put up points and you could stream the position so you'll be all right. And in addition to that, I think Jason Whitten is the perfect example of a guy who might go undrafted. Zach Miller of the Bears, Dwayne Allen. These are guys that I think will go undrafted in many leagues and you're fine with them.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, I wouldn't go fine with Whitten. I mean it's, it certainly is very possible he has the track record. He had a couple games this year. Obviously they were very Romo less for the majority of the season. He did have a couple really high, high target games. But if you're, I guess if you're loaded everywhere else maybe you can get away with Whitten. But he, he's more of a week to week great matchup type of a guy.

[Andy Holloway]

For me, the one thing you really will not get from Whitten is multi touchdown games which you get from other tight ends. But at a certain value point it's great to have the reliability of at least you're not getting gooses week in and week out when you're taking chances with other guys.

[Mike Wright]

So.

[Andy Holloway]

All right, let's move on. Let's. We haven't done this in a while. We like to read reviews from the listeners. We appreciate your reviews on itunes very, very much.

[Mike Wright]

Very much.

[Andy Holloway]

We like to read some of the entertaining ones.

[Jason Moore]

Reviewasaurus Rex. This one comes in from Larucifer. He says it's the best around. You want to know how I know they are the best around? They're the first one I listen to when I get in the car. I have a lot of time on my hands and I listen to a lot of fantasy football podcasts, but if there's a new footballers that's always first up. Great insight and just enough humor. Along with a fair bit of never pitchy singing. Yeah, thanks, Mike. Shout out to Mike. It really just seems like you're in a room with friends talking fantasy football. The difference is these guys know what they're talking about, unlike the Jabonies that you know.

[Mike Wright]

Jabronis.

[Jason Moore]

Jabronis. Okay. It's an added bonus that it's an independent podcast and happens to be from his home state. Plus he finishes it with hashtag Foot Clan title times two. He got two titles. For the Foot Clan listeners out there.

[Andy Holloway]

That is impressive and really appreciate you very much for the review. We do. We appreciate that very much. Let's go ahead. And we got some breaking news this morning. So let's get into the news.

[Jason Moore]

News and notes from around the league.

[Andy Holloway]

All of you dynasty owners, keeper league owners that have a stake in Lashawn McCoy, you can do that. You can take a deep breath. A sigh of relief I believe is what Mike just let out.

[Mike Wright]

I'm with you. I'm with you foot clan. I got shady.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. A couple weeks ago, we had heard that Lashamacoy was not likely to be charged for the incident in the nightclub. Today we have breaking news that the NFL is unlikely to do any sort of discipline. And so it is all water under the 3:00am nightclub bridge. That's, I mean, honestly, dangerous bridge. If you go back and you look now, nothing's changed for Lashon McCoy. It's just perception. And maybe that works in your favor somehow because somebody heard that stuff and they're still worried about it. You can probably still take advantage of some of that doubt in your dynasty or keeper leagues. But good news for shady owners, good news for people who are counting on him this year. Now he just has to stay healthy and run the ball and catch the ball and do what Rex Ryan likes.

[Jason Moore]

Which he will do.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

All right. PFT's Mike Florio is reporting the Rams are expected to move on from Nick Foles.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, really?

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. Well, what do you think about. About that? Did we ever, ever expect Mr. Fisher to let go of Nick Foles?

[Mike Wright]

Nick Foles is just the. Just the right guy. That he's a Jeff Fisher guy, you know, just. Just a little bit below mediocre.

[Andy Holloway]

How charismatic and incredible must Case Keenum be now that he's pushing Nick Foles out?

[Jason Moore]

I don't think it takes that much charisma.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay. Hey. The jets have traded for Ryan Clady.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I like this. This was on the heels. There were rumors that they were going to try to unload a ton to trade up to the number one to get a predominant left tackle in the draft after theirs retired.

[Andy Holloway]

So this is really the jets, obviously.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so they get Ryan Clady. I think it's a good deal. I think it's going to help their O line. It's funny because after the retirement, I was like, you know, the running game, it takes a hit when you lose a great offensive lineman. Yeah, everything could take a hit. And I think they did a great job fixing that up.

[Mike Wright]

I found this interesting. I thought the move was great for the Jets. What I found interesting was for Ferguson, it came out.

[Andy Holloway]

Now, maybe Ferguson retired, maybe it's not.

[Mike Wright]

True, but they had asked him to take a pay cut and he said, nah, I'll retire. But the news was he would have played for his full contract. And it's.

[Jason Moore]

I don't.

[Mike Wright]

Maybe the stinginess is finally catching up to the Jets.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, there are a couple of reports. The reports about the 7,8 million a year to Ryan Fitzpatrick have been at least publicly disputed by the Jets. They said that number is not what they had been offering him because they're like, it's 8.1. Well, okay, I don't agree. I think that there's no way. We all thought that that was outlandish what they were offering Ryan Fitzpatrick. I think it. It was and is and wasn't actually what was offered.

[Mike Wright]

Probably somewhere between not a good look for your franchise to have two big problems here.

[Jason Moore]

You.

[Mike Wright]

Luckily, they solved a problem very quickly.

[Andy Holloway]

Fitzpatrick will. Will sign with them. And when the Clay D trade happened, I initially thought this was a way for Denver to free up space to get Colin Kaepernick. All the reading I've done since then, however, has said that the deal is not completely dead but very unlikely to happen and that this has no impact on the financial situation. For getting Colin Kaepernick is what I.

[Jason Moore]

Read today, which they really need to do immediately.

[Andy Holloway]

Get Colin Kaepernick.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

Only so that you can. Only for our little publicly gloat.

[Jason Moore]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

I can't wait until Kaepernick stays there if it's Patrick signs and we're all done with this. But. All right, let's move on here. The Broncos are considering trading for Josh McCown in. In lieu of maybe Colin Kaepernick, which I think is a better win. Now move.

[Mike Wright]

I would. I would like that for fantasy purposes. I'd rather have McCown throwing the ball to DT.

[Andy Holloway]

I would move DTches. I would move DT up right away because Josh McKeown in between concussions is a gunslinger.

[Mike Wright]

Yep.

[Andy Holloway]

Right in between there. Right. Right. When he's coming out of one and getting ready to go into another one, he throws it up. He stays in the pocket. I love it. I love it.

[Jason Moore]

And look what he did in Chicago in his stint. The thing that earned him his massive contract was. Was when he had Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffrey together. You go to the Broncos where you've got those two great options and Emmanuel Sanders and demarius Thomas, and he's a perfect fit for that. Also, if you haven't realized this, all news this week is from the Broncos.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

Everything comes from Denver.

[Andy Holloway]

Right. They requested that we spend all of our time talking about them. So the next bit of news. The Broncos have exchanged contract proposals with Ronnie Hillman. I only bring this up because I want to know how your. You view him returning with CJ Anderson. If that is indeed the case, does that take the shine off of CJ's big contract? Does that change your perspective on Anderson? At all.

[Mike Wright]

It doesn't. Doesn't change it for me. He. I feel like Anderson will again be given the opportunity to be the guy where Hillman's still not on the team. They screwed up with Anderson. The Broncos did. They figured that out. They underestimated his value, had to pay him more than they wanted to. And Hillman is still not on the team as of now.

[Andy Holloway]

As of right Now, Mike has CJ Anderson at 13, Jason has him at 17, and I have him at 23.

[Mike Wright]

Wow.

[Jason Moore]

I am shocked that I'm not lowest on CJ Anderson. I thought that you were.

[Andy Holloway]

You're welcome.

[Jason Moore]

I thought you were coming around. I feel like I should be more in the 20s, because what I was going to say on this, I think.

[Andy Holloway]

He will come up for me a little bit, was that not to Mike's level.

[Jason Moore]

This doesn't change anything for me on CJ Anderson because the shine and the luster is already off for me. I just feel like we. We've done this before coming in saying, oh, if he gets the opportunity, if these things happen, if they break right, he can be great. I agree with those things, but they should have happened last year. We had plenty of opportunity for that to be true, and it wasn't. And it's not going to be this next year. So I don't believe CJ Anderson will be elite. Elite, exactly. He'll be serviceable. You. You can get by with them.

[Andy Holloway]

Sure. So tight ends are coming.

[Jason Moore]

Tight ends. The fight is coming, and I'm going to make sure I bring the fight. But before we get into the ruckus debate on tight ends, we have got to thank our new sponsor, footballhaul.com that's haul. That's haul. Like you're getting a haul. Like a U haul full of stuff. H A U L. And let me tell you guys, I have been waiting, literally waiting for this type of a thing for years. You've got all those crates, those boxes that come in the mail where you open them up and you get surprises every month. Well, this one is just for football. We've actually talked about this before, and if you've ever watched our show on YouTube and you see how cool this studio is decked out with McFarlane's and all these things, these are the exact things. In fact, Mike's holding up something we just got in our last football hall. Football hall. You get this box is $75 of value in every single box. The box is only 29 bucks. You get it every month. It's like Christmas or a birthday, 12 months a year, which is exactly what.

[Andy Holloway]

You want, I was gonna say. And when you open the box, I feel like it just. You keep pulling stuff out. Like the clown car where they just keep getting out. I was pulling things out of the box going, here's something else. Here's something else.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. You get clothes, shirts, toys, favorite team stuff, puzzles, games, figures, action figures. And not just, I mean, we're talking about like, you know, those, those limited edition versions. So here's what you got to do. They've got a football hall closing on April 19, so go right now for.

[Mike Wright]

May to get your haul in to.

[Jason Moore]

Get your next haul. So I know our listeners are going to love it. Go to footballhaul.com and sign up and use our promo code, which is Ballers five. Ballers five at your checkout. And you'll get five bucks off that first order. And you can take pictures of your unpacking. Send it to us. We've done it. It is amazing.

[Andy Holloway]

You can really cool.

[Jason Moore]

It is really cool.

[Andy Holloway]

All right. And before we do, count down the the top 10 tight ends and I defeat Jason repeatedly in rhetoric and battles of wit. I do want to remind everybody about our sponsor, pristine auction.com. our good friends at Pristine Auction. Not a day goes by we don't get some sort of tweet or email saying, hey, I just got something new over at Pristine Auction. The very best place to get autograph memorabilia, autograph gear, unique things you've never seen. You heard us talk about the Mike Tyson autograph punch out box with the Nintendo controller. They have so many cool things over there and they just launched a brand new website which is makes it even better. They have hundreds, hundreds of daily auctions. So this is not something where you get on there and you have to wait forever to get, you know, the payoff. It's super fun. Mike just went on there this past weekend.

[Mike Wright]

I apologize if you were up against me a couple days ago because I went on there and I did some serious work. We got some serious signed jerks.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. Amazing signed jersey. I think you got like a Keenan Allen signed jersey.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, I did.

[Andy Holloway]

Got some really cool stuff and they're very affordable. That's the other thing we love about Pristine Auction. So go check them out. Pristineauction.com. that is P R I S T I N E auction dot com. Good friends of the show. All right, guys, let's do it.

[Jason Moore]

Tight ends, stretching. I should have worn my gi.

[Andy Holloway]

I don't know why. I just. We'll get into this you just want to fight.

[Jason Moore]

No, here's why. And let me explain this to the Foot Clan. So when we do our rankings, you've listened to the last several weeks. If you haven't, go back. We've got our running backs, our wide receivers done. Normally, our consensus rankings line up really nice. Now the nice thing about three opinions on this show is we disagree with some guys. You'll hear the pros of guys and the cons of guys from differing opinions. But generally speaking, you look at our consensus rankings and they list out. Right. This is the first time that I can remember where I feel like. And our consensus rankings are actually really nice because of our disparity. But I feel like each one of us have very different takes on a few guys. And if you're new to the show, if you're not used to us, we don't, we don't try to make hot takes. We try to be accurate. That's our goal here, is we want to win championships.

[Andy Holloway]

Hashtag Foot Clan titles. That's what we want showing up at.

[Jason Moore]

The end of the year, Hashtag footclantitles. And so. But in here we've got a couple guys, just a handful that I think we've got a wide opinion.

[Andy Holloway]

I agree with that. And I think it speaks to the position. It just speaks to the fact that the tight end position, look, even last year, it's not like people had Jordan Reed ending the year at number two because of the fact that guys don't have a consistent track record. Some do, a couple do. But a lot of them don't have a track. Even Gary Barnage, you know those guys, they don't have a track record of five, six years of doing top five performances. And so you're going to have our educated opinions about which guys will be there this year. Where you will not have an issue is with number one.

[Jason Moore]

Right.

[Andy Holloway]

Our consensus number one across the board in standard leagues is Rob Gronkowski. And he should be right.

[Jason Moore]

Absolutely. You have the backwards track record. He is one of the most prolific tight ends that's ever played the game. Comes out in his rookie year with double digit touchdowns. His sophomore year was 17 touchdowns. Every year you can pretty much say he has double digit touchdowns. He's the best of the, of the. The position gives you a positional advantage. The only worry with Gronk always has been injury risk, which you have with every player, but obviously he has a history of it. But Gronk is there. So the real question with Gronk, because everybody listening knows, yeah, Gronk's number one. Do you spend a first round pick to get Gronk when tight ends are this deep? What say you gentlemen?

[Andy Holloway]

I think you can and I know that's not like a hard line answer. I think you can do that. I think in smaller leagues, particularly 10 man leagues, 8 man leagues, I think Gronkowski is a worthy late first round pick from pretty much 7 to 10 in that range I would say if you want to take that route. I think we've talked about the merits of taking a top end wide receiver in the first round this year and the fact the consistency level of a Julio Jones or an Antonio Brown. I think that argument applies to Gronkowski and I have no problem if you choose to do that. I probably will not end up in that boat in very many leagues. However, he will be my main keeper in one of our leagues because he offers a positional advantage and consistency. And I think speaking to the fact that we all think he's number one part of that is because of the way he is used in the Patriot game plan. He is, it's not incidental when he scores a touchdown. It's intentional. They put him in mismatch situations. He is a red zone threat and he's done it for years. So I think I'm okay with it. That's my answer.

[Mike Wright]

And I think that the gap for, for we, when I, when I was stating everybody out, the gap has closed a bit between Gronk and and for me, my number two is Jordan Reed. So the differential of the points is not this gargantuan monolith of a pit that where Gronk stands on his ivory tower and looks down upon all the other tight ends like there's a gap. I'm not saying there isn't but I just, it's not. It, it's not as far and away as it used to be. So for me to spend a first round pick on that guy when I can get a guy who I think is, who has the chance to be right there with him a couple rounds later in Jordan Reed, I personally wouldn't take Gronk there and that made your.

[Andy Holloway]

Argument makes a lot of sense to me. From the way that you look at drafting as well, you are a little bit more inclined to take the shot on either the value or the risky guy, the riskier guy. And I think. Let me ask you this question and Jason, you can answer it. It's riskier, is it not, to take a Jordan Reed and rely on him in the way that you would rely upon a Gronkowski.

[Jason Moore]

I would say no, it is not riskier. And the reason why is because of where you get him. You already have a first round pick and a second round pick. You know, I presume you're getting read in the third round. And so the risk is. I will say this, if you're just saying in a vacuum the risk of Gronk versus the risk of Reed. No, for sure, Gronk is less risky. Jordan Reed, we had a rule last year, his nickname on this show was Rule 86. Because Rule 86 is that if he's healthy, you play him. We always knew that he was great when he's on the field. The problem with Jordan Reedy was he was never on the field. He has a laundry list of injuries. So in that you're right. But I would rather, and I've said this, I think I said this on our last show, the way that I draft is I really kind of avoid risk in those top two picks. I want guys who are, you know, elite up at the top that have the fewest risks. And so I would say the third round you generally just have less risk attached.

[Mike Wright]

And speaking for Jordan Reed, it's especially the gap is closer in ppr. Very, very good point situations because Gronk, I mean like for as great as he is, Gronk is really an 80 catch type of guy. Now he's going to give you the double digit touchdowns but I think Jordan Reed has that upside to do that again. Reed had 10 or 11 touchdowns. So he can do it. He's shown he can do it and that was only in 14 games. But Reed is he at least for the second half of the season he became the first read of that offense and Kirk Cousins and him developed a tremendous chemistry. And there's such an advantage that Reed has because they line him up, you know, in the slot, even sometimes out wide and he runs up against generally linebackers but he's an excellent route runner. So he just, he toasts the coverage in that way. And Jordan Reed is closer to a hundred catch potential guy than 80. So you close the gap there a little bit with ppr.

[Andy Holloway]

Big difference between the two in terms of yards per reception. You know, Gronkowski led the league with 16.33 yards per reception.

[Mike Wright]

That was the best of his career.

[Andy Holloway]

And the most yards per per game. Now we're kind of number two on our list is Jordan Reed. I'm just going to say that because we're debate, we're talking about these two guys as it stands right now, Jason and Mike have Jordan Reed slotted in as their number two tight end.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

In their rankings. I actually have Jordan Reed number four. He's essentially in a three way tie between my two, three and four in terms of how the projections worked out. I think there's a four point something point difference between them.

[Jason Moore]

Now on that though, am I correct in telling our listeners you statted him out as not playing 16 games? Right.

[Andy Holloway]

I started him out with an estimation of about a 14, 15 game season.

[Jason Moore]

So per game he would, he would be your number two then, I would imagine.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I think per game he ends up there. Yeah. Because of how close they are in the total points.

[Mike Wright]

I mean, because Jordan Reed is like, like you were saying, the difference between Gronk and Reed is Reed is more of a possession type of a guy. You know that 10 to 11 yards per catch where Gronk has the ability to be a 14 to 16 yard per catch.

[Andy Holloway]

Big plays from Gronk.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, but what Reed gives you highest catch percentage in the NFL for any wide receiver, tight end or running back with over 100 targets at over 76%. I mean that's, that's a connection with your quarterback for sure.

[Andy Holloway]

There's no, I, there's nothing negative to say about Jordan Reed. Jordan Reed is awesome. We love Jordan Reed.

[Mike Wright]

Well, yeah, I'll throw in injuries.

[Jason Moore]

I was going to say there's plenty you could say on injuries. Concoction, Concussion, quadriceps.

[Andy Holloway]

That's it.

[Jason Moore]

Shoulder contusion, strained hamstring, strained hamstring, strained thumb, concussion, bruised hip, strained quadriceps. That was, I think that was last year.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, I look before the episode began, we always have like a picture that we put up in association with the web on the website and I was searching, I figured Jordan Reed was appropriate. He's kind of the hotness from last year, which, funny, by the way, I looked up his average draft position and it's actually over the last two months it's dropped.

[Mike Wright]

Really?

[Andy Holloway]

He's actually like the second pick of the fourth round right now. Hey, but I searched for Jordan Reed wallpaper. You know, I'm looking for a high resolution picture of Jordan Reed and it was like I found a good picture, a good picture. The third picture was him face down on the ground, writhing in pain.

[Mike Wright]

That's about right.

[Andy Holloway]

And, and really we were having some fun discussions in the, in the studio about the way the rankings work and the risks and things like that. Jordan Reed, for me, I don't want to sour on him. From a potential standpoint, much like Travis Kelsey last year, I think Kelsey is a pretty good example in my mind, actually. He's a really. I hadn't thought of it about this until now. This wasn't premeditated. Travis Kelsey is the perfect example of what could happen to Jordan Reed this year and how I have him projected. I think 11 touchdowns is pretty darn high for Jordan Reed. What he pulled in last year, I think that Travis Kelsey was coming off the end of the year and nothing about Travis Kelce's year last year said, boy, Travis Kelce sucks.

[Jason Moore]

Nothing.

[Andy Holloway]

He did.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Fair says Travis Kelce sucks. Hyper, talented, really good. Just wasn't locked in as this, like, catch guy in the offense that we thought he could be. Reed could be. I totally give a percentage chance that Jordan Reed could be.

[Jason Moore]

Awesome. The big difference there, though, is that we saw that Kelsey could be. Last year. We saw that Reed was.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say.

[Andy Holloway]

How do you mean that you saw that he was.

[Jason Moore]

Reed was the first option.

[Mike Wright]

87 receptions for 952 yards, 14 games.

[Jason Moore]

He got 87 receptions. So I think we know he's locked in as a. As a predominant target of Kirk Cousins.

[Andy Holloway]

So you got a big. We definitely got a bigger sample of his elite play than we did Kelsey when we projected Kelsey High. Yes, but they both were third. Fourth round picks last year. I guess Kelsey was fourth. Five.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. Okay. But they. I think they ended up both. Right now, fourth round is about where they're at. So I guess my whole point is that when you mix in the injuries and about, you know, 10 games worth of elite. Elite play, it just. I don't put him as close to Gronk as you guys do. And that's the way it goes.

[Jason Moore]

Sure. In ppr.

[Andy Holloway]

What do you mean?

[Jason Moore]

I'm just saying he's. When you say he's close to Gronk, even.

[Andy Holloway]

Even in standard leagues, the point gap between how I have him and you have them is very much different. Okay, so number three in our consensus list is actually.

[Jason Moore]

This will be the most shocking name of the episode, I think, for people. As far as our consensus rankings. No. Nobody sees him this high in our. In. In other analysts. I don't. I don't believe. And he's not actually number three in any of our rankings, right? No, nobody of the group of us. Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Worked out for. He'll be the consensus number three because of the disparity we have in the other guys, but number three, I think Jason should announce this since he's kind of been touting this guy for a while.

[Jason Moore]

I appreciate that, Mike. That's true. This is my boy. This is pretty much my favorite guy so far.

[Andy Holloway]

54 catches, 490 receptions and three touchdowns last year.

[Jason Moore]

That's right. Sounds. Sounds pretty below average. It is my boy, Kobe Fleener. And let me just start this off by saying Kobe Fleener stinks. Kobe Fleener sucks. That is what I want you and everyone listening to. I want to drive down that value, man. Because the reason I like Kobe Fleener is he's available late in drafts and I want him to stay there. Look, he's not that good. He's never had more than, you know, 50 receptions in the last. In the 50s. So you tell your friends when they say Kobe Fleeners a good value, you go, I don't know about that. He's never really done it. Okay. We all in agreement? Cool. Because I want him on my team.

[Andy Holloway]

He's fourth in both of your guys rankings. He's fifth in my rankings and obviously his ADP is going to massively climb from his ninth round ranking and it should. You're going to have. And, and while we are the highest maybe at this moment, we've heard some other analysts that have put him in the in the category of top five. And look, this is the reason why not once since 2010 is Drew Brees allowed his number one tight end to not amass over 100 targets.

[Jason Moore]

Well, well under 100, not like 101. But I think last year was his lowest in to the tight end position in several years because he lost Jimmy Graham. And that was 100 what, 15 or so to Ben Watson.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I mean this is a crucial part of the offense and you don't have some other big touchdown threat, big guy in the offense. Colston has retired. You don't have other options. And Kobe Fleener is more than capable of being what he is, which is a pass catching tight end. He is not a stay in and block tight end. He's been signed to be a pass catcher. And so it's inevitable that his hype train will begin to.

[Mike Wright]

It'll pick up some steam. My favorite thing when I'm thinking about Kobe Fleener in the Saints offense. Okay, well you got, you got a big guy, very, very athletic. I mean he ran a, he's six, six. He ran a four, five, six. I mean that's just absolutely ridiculous. His measurables are off the charts. But you know, what's the complaints? Well, he's soft he all he can do really is catch across the middle. Maybe he's a little weak. You're like, who does that sound like?

[Jason Moore]

Jimmy Graham.

[Mike Wright]

That's Jimmy Graham. That's exactly Jimmy Graham. So you put Colby Fleener in. Maybe it takes a little bit of time. I'm not expecting, you know, Jimmy Graham immediately or he would be our number two tight end. But I expect very big things for Kobe Flea.

[Jason Moore]

And the truth, the reason why I'm so excited is that adp, whereas we're talking about first round for Gronk and we're talking about third, hey, maybe fourth for Jordan Reed. But I think it's very realistic that Kobe Fleener, because of all the tight ends, people are going to fall in love with any number of guys. You just don't know how the drafts are going to go. Very realistic that you can get him in the eighth round. And if I can get seven guys who aren't in the tight end position and then fill in in my eighth round, a guy that I am very confident finishes in the top five. I'm very, very confident. Because with tight ends you're so touchdown dependent. Because there's very few tight ends that get well over 100 targets a year. But those guys, they're not going to drop out. Kobe Fleener, barring injury is not going to be the 10th best tight end next year. He's going to be a top five.

[Mike Wright]

On top of that, Marcus Colston's gone. I know he wasn't a huge.

[Andy Holloway]

Almost like I said that about one minute ago.

[Jason Moore]

Well, but the point is I was.

[Mike Wright]

Looking, I was trying to look his numbers things up.

[Andy Holloway]

But like you said, you are, you're correct.

[Mike Wright]

I was researching. So that's. He wasn't a huge part of the offense. But those targets, I mean Coleman, are we, are we going to do that again? Brian, buy into Brandon Coleman? Not for me. It's Colby Fleener or bust.

[Andy Holloway]

Number four on our consensus ranking. So we had Gronkowski, Reed and Fleener. Number four is Gary Barnage. Now this is almost entirely because of Mike.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

And Mike has Barnage at 3. Jason 5. I have him at 8. We all in this top 10 that we're talking about today. However there, I mean, I think there's a pretty strong difference of opinion here and a lot of why I think Jason Knight have him as high is because of the fact he's a Cleveland Brown. He's got one year track record and he's got Robert Griffin III throwing in the ball.

[Jason Moore]

Now one of the amazing things And I mean, amazing about him is he doesn't have a one year track record. Gary Barnage has been in the league more years than you could possibly imagine. And this is what scares me about him. So I'm going to make the counter argument for Gary Barnage here and then Mike, you can tell us why he's so high. Let me read you. Let's go with his targets. Okay, these are the targets for Gary Barnard since he entered the league year by year one. Okay, well, that was his rookie year, so whatever. 21, nine, five 12.

[Mike Wright]

These are his targets.

[Jason Moore]

Two, the 25.

[Mike Wright]

That's not good.

[Jason Moore]

125. One of those things is not like the other. And that was last year. Clearly he was able to do it. He was capable of doing it, but which is the real Gary Barnage? And like Andy said, the faith that you put in the Browns. I was shocked. I was doing my research on Gary Barnage. I started him out and I thought I was down on him and I was shocked to see that. Where did you say I had him? Five.

[Andy Holloway]

You have five? Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

So I was shocked that he was that high because I don't love Gary Barnage this year. But again, it's. When you get that much, that volume of targets, it's hard to not be in the top.

[Andy Holloway]

New head coach, new quarterback, bad team. Those three things have me hesitant about him. He's still in my top 10.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, and that's, that's very fair. Like Jason said though, for Gary Barnes, 125 targets. So there are, there are some other factors for the Cleveland Browns. Travis Benjamin, 125 targets. He is out of town. Now. I will concede that those targets could immediately go to Josh Gordon, who may or may not be reinstated into the league. But let's say that, that Gordon is not like all the news are saying that the Browns are preparing for life without Josh Gordon. Who are you left with? I mean, they'll probably add someone in the draft, but heartline, Brian Hartline, Andrew Hawkins, Taylor Gabriel, I mean, even Duke Johnson. So let's say Duke Johnson gets a huge increase in his targets. He already had 74 last year. So I just think that the volume is safe for Gary Barnage. The. If you watch the Browns play, he was a huge part of their game plan. It wasn't just, oh, hey, Gary happens to be open.

[Jason Moore]

They schemed and they gave him a contract. They paid him and said, you're a part of this team going forward.

[Mike Wright]

And sure, it's, it's pretty wild and out there That a guy like Gary Barneys are tight in so late in his career can, can break out. But it does. It happens. It happens from time to time. And I just, I'm buying into him because of, like we said with Fleena, where you can pay a later ADP for him. I believe before, before the drafts are happening, that Fleener will pass Barnage in the adp and you can, you'll be able to get him around the eighth, ninth round a little bit after Fleener, I'd prefer, I mean, I would say Fleener has more upside. I have Barnage just slightly ahead, but it's because of the targets. I think that those, the target volume is very dependable again for next year.

[Jason Moore]

That's why he ended up when I didn't like him as high as number five in my rankings. Because the truth is they have to pass the ball to someone.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

And I do think last year was. You asked, is that the real Gary Barnage? I think, yeah, I think last year's the real Gary Barnage. He was reliable, you know, he had enough quantity to be reliable. But those are the arguments for and against him. Now the next guy on our list now Jason had Barnage and Travis Kelsey 56 in his rankings and Kelsey is the next one on our list at number five. However, Mike and I have Barnage and Kelsey inversed. He has Kelsey 8, Barnage 3. I have Barnage 8, Kelsey 3. So let's talk about Travis Kelce. He disappointed on expectations last year, but he didn't really have a bad season. He's a product of an offense that sometimes utilizes him and sometimes doesn't. He was 72 for 875 and 5. I think I projected him for about 80 catches in a thousand yards and going up by a touchdown this year. That just happened to drop him at number three in my rankings. What, what are your guys's thoughts on Travis Kelsey, Mike? Why is he eight for you?

[Mike Wright]

I'm more curious why, like you're, you're projecting him to go up to 1,000 yards. What, what, what is your thought process behind that?

[Andy Holloway]

I just think that Travis Kelsey's utilization varied for no other reason than the defense being so incredibly good over the last half of the season. They, their, their defense and that run that they went on, it was a defense oriented. They didn't have to pass the ball a lot. And so I think that's why you saw a decline in his total production towards the end of the year. I think that their defense has lost some pieces in this past Year. We know what's going on with Houston and their safeties. I just think that means that they're involved in a little bit more passing games. And you're talking about an increase in catches that I've projected at 8.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

So I have no problem with them utilizing him.

[Mike Wright]

Wait, you have him at.

[Andy Holloway]

I think I have him at 80.

[Mike Wright]

Catches for a thousand yards.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. So I have his yards per catch going up.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. So a pretty decent chunk in which it could happen. Look, I still.

[Jason Moore]

I just would want. I want to take a pause real quick and just say how happy I am from a. From a human being perspective to now sit and watch Mike, who was Mr. Zeus? Travis Kelsey. Man. Badmouth him. Continue.

[Mike Wright]

No, no, no.

[Jason Moore]

You.

[Mike Wright]

You will not catch me badmouthing Travis Kelce because I still love the player. Zeus is a monster. It's just I don't think that the Chiefs are going to. To bump him up to that level where he can become. He can stay in the elite because of volume. I think that he is one of the best tight ends in the league. He's just not getting the appropriate targets. And I blame Andy Reid for that.

[Jason Moore]

Well, that's an easy one to blame because if you've got a superstar and you got Andy Reid, it's.

[Mike Wright]

I never blame Travis Kelsey for anything.

[Jason Moore]

No. And so I think Andy brings up one of the best points that we need to keep in mind. The defense, just like we Talked about with DeAndre Hopkins in the wide receivers. The defense for the Kansas City Chiefs, who were lights out, unbelievable second half of the year were not that way in the beginning of the season. And that made an impact on their offense because one of the things that worried me with Kelsey was the downtrend of his stats. You look at his year and you go, well, he had a fine year. He had enough catches, enough yards, enough touchdowns. You look at game one, and in the first game of the year, I felt good, man.

[Mike Wright]

He had six after week one, six.

[Jason Moore]

For 106 and two. Two of his five touchdowns. You know, I mean, a giant chunk. And then from there it kept going down and down and down. So the trend does not look good for Kelsey. All three of us, love. I mean, you want to talk about an elite guy, I think if you're talking just physical talent, you go Gronk, then you go Kelsey. I think Kelsey is the second most talented tight end in the NFL from a physical capability.

[Andy Holloway]

He still was at 100 targets last year. You know, you talked about the yards per catch changing. I think I have him at 12.3. He did 12.9 his rookie year, 12.2 last year. So it's not much of a different. A difference. And he played 16 games both years, which is something that. Hey, Jordan Reed, Rob Gronkowski, I'd like to have that from my tight end. I just think that he could end up in ADP value because of all the hype last year, the disappointment. Depending on where he goes. I like him. And again, we're debating a small amount of point differential, but I do have him pretty high, especially because in my rankings I have them higher than Jordan Reed, which I think is going to.

[Mike Wright]

I also like. And maybe they won't be serviceable this year for fantasy purposes, but I like what I saw out of Albert Wilson and Chris Conley. I think that the wide receivers are finally catching up to speed in Kansas City.

[Andy Holloway]

I like Albert Wilson. I agree with you on that. All right, we need to, we need to start cruising here. We got Greg Olson coming in at number six in our consensus rankings. I owe, I owe an apology to disappointment Jason Moore for this one. Look, this is, this is our biggest travesty last year. 77 for 1104 yards and seven touchdowns. In fact, last year, besides Gronk and Jimmy Graham, he's the first tight end with over 1100 receiving yards in a season since Antonio Gates did it back in 2009 with 1157. This is something where I am responsible for this ranking. Jason has him at three. Very fairly. Appropriately, I think I'm at nine, which is just too low. I probably need to move him up. That being said, this is, this is, you know, this is the Julius Thomas effect a little bit. Where you had this season for Denver, right. A couple years ago where every number was a record setting number. You had Sanders record setting numbers, Julius Thomas record setting numbers. They put up this offense. I'm not projecting Carolina's offense to do what it did last year.

[Jason Moore]

No.

[Andy Holloway]

And I'm not projecting them to be in such dire straits at the, at the wide receiver position next year to where we are looking at that level of production from Olson. And so he's moved down a little bit to me. I have him at 73 for 816 and 6.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I don't, I don't. Their wide receivers, their wide receivers are going to be better. Their offense is going to be worse. I agree completely. I think if we look two years ago when Greg Olson finished fourth, had one less touchdown, 100 less yards, he was still the fourth best tight end. And when you Want consistency. He is my. I will tell you right now, the guy I want the most in the draft on my teams is actually Greg Olson, even more than Kobe Fleener. Because I know what I get. I know what I have week in, week out. And you want to talk consistency. I mean, we just talked about the injury risk for other guys. Let me read you just, just the past few years of Greg Olson's games played. 16, 16, 16, 16,16,16, 16, 16, 16, 16. That's.

[Mike Wright]

Eddie plays like every snap. He's a beast.

[Jason Moore]

So I kind of like, what are.

[Andy Holloway]

The odds that Greg Olson would ever give you double digit touchdowns? Has he ever done that?

[Jason Moore]

No, he's never done that.

[Mike Wright]

What's that?

[Andy Holloway]

Which is. There's a little bit. He's like, he's great. I'm not arguing, but that's a, that's a piece of the puzzle to me.

[Mike Wright]

And it's funny you bring that up because I was just going to talk about CAM Newton threw 35 touchdowns. That was his best season by 11 touchdowns.

[Andy Holloway]

Right.

[Mike Wright]

And what did, what did Olson have? Seven.

[Jason Moore]

Seven one more than the year before.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

So if he ends up with five, which is about where I have him, then standard leagues, he'll, he'll be more of an issue for you. But he's great. There's not really a debate there.

[Mike Wright]

The artist. Consistency is fantastic, but if he got up into the nine, 10 touchdowns would be. That would be more surprising than not to me.

[Andy Holloway]

All right, we'll go ahead and move on. Zach Ertz comes in at number seven.

[Mike Wright]

Get out the flamethrower.

[Jason Moore]

Let me put this camera on you. Andy, you can just have the, the platform.

[Andy Holloway]

All right, we're moving on from Zach. We're on to number eight.

[Mike Wright]

Is the, is the Kelly drop on the, on the soundboard because this is a very appropriate time.

[Andy Holloway]

My mind's telling me no, but my body, my body telling me I have Zachary very high.

[Jason Moore]

How high, Andy?

[Andy Holloway]

Technically number two.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, that's a fire.

[Andy Holloway]

I have Zachary. Essentially speaking. Technically speaking, I have him tied with. Look, it took everything in me not to just like adjust one tenth of a point on a touchdown to drop him to four because that's how close he is with Kelsey and Reed to me. But look, he still, I don't know if you know this, he had a, he had a 75 catch year. He had 850 plus yards. He had more average receptions per game than Gronkowski and Olson and he's been paid and he's coming into his own as a Tight end. I probably got him too high.

[Jason Moore]

Here's the truth.

[Andy Holloway]

But I love Zachary.

[Jason Moore]

I like Zach Ertz a lot. When I was stating him out, I see a lot of reason for improvement. He is, he is great. And when I, when I finished, I thought, oh, I'm pretty high on him. I think I was seven. And, and so, you know, I was like, oh, I was surprised he was, he was up that high. Honestly, I don't have a problem where he is in our consensus rankings. I think seven after this. And that's why we have talked about. Yeah, so he's, he's good. He's going to be.

[Andy Holloway]

You guys are telling me that. Let me, let me ask. Let me put it this way, because I'm going to sort by your rankings, Jay. I actually got nothing wrong with yours, so I'm going to look at Mike.

[Jason Moore]

Okay, that sounds about right. I am the champ.

[Andy Holloway]

So Delaney, Walker, Zach Ertz. That's really the one that I'm curious about now.

[Mike Wright]

I, yeah, that's. That one's. That's interesting because Walker basically had a full outlier of a season and the Titans have, they've added a piece and Rashard Matthews, Dorial Green, Beckham, I think should take a step forward.

[Jason Moore]

And don't forget Kendall Wright.

[Andy Holloway]

Sure.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Kendall Wright was beat up most of the year and he's still a, still young, a good talent. So that's. Actually, I have, I have Walker and Ertz, 9 and 10. I would say that the upside there for Ertz compared to Walker, if you're talking a guy who could actually sneak into the top five this year, it would be more Ertz to me, but that's why I got him in that same range. I'm just not.

[Andy Holloway]

And that's fine. And the problem with Ertz is a million percent to do with touchdowns. He just hasn't put them up. You got the west coast offense there with a new head coach that uses the tight end position. I just, personally, I see the, the potential for the volume to be there. I believe over his last half. Okay. This is not just taking a couple of games. Week nine on his. His pace was about 105 receptions.

[Mike Wright]

Spectacular.

[Andy Holloway]

And so it's, it's a hot take, I admit. Maybe it's part of an awareness campaign for Zach Ertz on my behalf.

[Jason Moore]

I will also say this. If you watched the Philadelphia games, there were so many games where Zach Ertz.

[Andy Holloway]

Open in the end zone, open in.

[Jason Moore]

The end zone, targeted wide open and missed. It was, it was uncanny. It's something that you just can't repeat. So he. He should have had at least three more touchdowns on that year. And so you just give him that and he's. He's pumped.

[Mike Wright]

Biggest question for Andy, if Zach Ertz is doing so well, how is. How's Nelson Aguilar going to catch all those passes?

[Andy Holloway]

He won't. That's the problem. All right, Number eight, Tyler Ifer, last year's darling. Thirteen touchdowns. And if you only look at that, you love him. But 52 for 615 otherwise, which is just really a low total. He had some injury issues. You had interesting stat looked up by one of Alex, one of the guys that helps us with some research. This was impressive to me. I mean, in 2013, you saw Vernon Davis, who put up 52 receptions just like Ifer did.

[Mike Wright]

Seriously.

[Andy Holloway]

With 32. I'm sorry. With 13. So Vernon Davis had the same totals with 13 touchdowns and obviously was a very hot pick. There's nothing to say. You know, you have some arguments for ifrt if he stays healthy. You had a very good offense, and you have the loss of SANU and Marvin Jones in the offense. Marvin Jones is a really good red.

[Mike Wright]

Zone weapon, or Ifert should be the number two target in that offense.

[Andy Holloway]

Now, odds that he repeats the identical season, what would you put that at or better yet, over under on that? 13 touchdowns.

[Mike Wright]

Do you think that I'm taking the under?

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I'll take that.

[Andy Holloway]

What about over? Under 10 for EIFERT.

[Jason Moore]

Over.

[Andy Holloway]

So you still have him pretty.

[Jason Moore]

I think he'll get double digits.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay. I think that's very. I think 10 is where I think is fair.

[Mike Wright]

I want to look what I.

[Andy Holloway]

Makes me want to see what I projected him for. Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Tyler IFRT. I gave him 10.

[Jason Moore]

So.

[Mike Wright]

Right on the button.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I guess. I guess over under. I was just thinking over under double digits.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. If it's double digits, I would lean over.

[Andy Holloway]

So the worry. The basic story. You've heard us talk about them a lot. The basic story is just in a standard league, I don't really mind if it at all. In any form of point per reception, half or full. You have some issues because he gave you games where he was great, scored, and then he had 52 receptions. I mean, you're talking about that's. You're getting close to half of what Jordan Reed had at that point, or Delaney Walker. You're almost actually there. So that's the problem with ifrt. It's not a huge problem. You'd like to have a guy that has a Track record of scoring. That's fine. I expect Zach Rudolph. Yeah, I mean Kyle Rudolph or Zach Rudolph, whoever that is.

[Mike Wright]

I expect the catches and the yards to go up and the touchdowns to come to like we're just gonna smash, smash that stat line. Make it a little.

[Andy Holloway]

You'd be really happy with him then if that's the case.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

And I'd be happy with.

[Jason Moore]

We got to say this again and again and again and again and again on this episode because you cannot go into your draft and oh, I got to get this guy or that guy at the tight end position or you're making a mistake. And we don't want our listeners to make a mistake. I would love to have Tyler if it on my team and I won't go. I'm on 0.0%, 0.0% of my teams because he is one of the guys being overvalued. I'm going to take one of the guys undervalued. They're just so many good tight ends.

[Andy Holloway]

That's the story with tight end is that IFRT is going to go very high because of his season.

[Jason Moore]

So.

[Andy Holloway]

And he, you know what he did too. He splashed last year. He won. People so many weeks earlier in the season that they didn't expect to win because they had Tyler Ifer and he blew up.

[Jason Moore]

He was a darling of our show. He was our main target.

[Andy Holloway]

We liked the guy. Just giving you all the information. That's the point of the show. Give you information. You can make those decisions. And we won't have him on a lot of teams because he's going to go too high. Number nine, Delaney Walker. Mike talked about him. 94 catches, 1088 yards and six touchdowns. I got him as my number six right now.

[Mike Wright]

Okay, because you're pretty big on the Titans.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm a pretty big on the Titans offense making a leap. I got Mariota very high in my quarterback rankings in standard four point leagues. I don't think he puts up a year like he did last year in total quantity. But this was, this was a big time year from Delaney Walker and he did most of it under the radars or so it felt in the fantasy community. So couple brief thoughts before we move on from Delaney Walker.

[Mike Wright]

Actually, I want to give the floor to you because you're the Walker guy and I know one of your kind of your rules that you live by is you don't chase guys who have had a career year and Delaney Walker. Talk about a career year. You mean 200 yards higher of higher than his Second best touchdowns was. He matched his highest total and his just receptions went up by over 30.

[Jason Moore]

No spring chicken.

[Mike Wright]

That's.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

And Walker is much later in his career. So it's where, where, where do you see the value like where will Walker be taken in drafts? Will he be forgotten because he's older?

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I think that Walker from a value perspective, I don't know if you're going to get. I don't think he's going to be under or overdrafted too much.

[Mike Wright]

He'll probably now he's in the sixth of standard six six round.

[Andy Holloway]

So yeah, I probably don't take him there. I have his receptions coming down BY I believe 15, probably 15 to 20. He is what I would call you know for a young quarterback like Mariota. And you saw this last year that was the variable. Right. Like you talk about, you don't chase a career year but you also work in the fact that he was that escape valve go to receiver on a lot of plays. But Kendall Wright was out and that was a big part of it.

[Mike Wright]

And I mean they just, they weren't playing Green Beckham. There was a lot of variables that.

[Andy Holloway]

Are changing for the Titans and I agree, I agree. But you still have the consistency of Mario to be in there and a coach that was there. So I pulled him down on those reception totals. I wouldn't expect anything close to 94 receptions but I still think he's going to be a reliable week to week guy. You know last year was a huge year in a Jason Whitten mold for Delaney Walker. I just think he's pretty consistent. However the six round value, I don't think I'm taking him there.

[Mike Wright]

Okay.

[Andy Holloway]

So I think that's fair and he'll probably.

[Jason Moore]

Plenty of the guys we talked about already are going past the six.

[Andy Holloway]

And when you talk about career year which apparently affected his ADP, if he's going in the 6 it's not something you think is going to happen again with an older guy like Delaney Walker. So Antonio Gates comes in at number 10. A little bit of a surprise to me only because there are some other guys we like with upside. The Eric Ebrins of the world. Ladarius Green in Pittsburgh is another guy will tie Austin, Sverrian, Jenkins, some of the hotter names, hotter athletes. But Antonio Gates slots in at number 10 and last year banged up 56 catches, five touchdowns. Mike has him at number five. So I do you know you handed me the floor for Delaney and Ertz. I'm going to hand it back to you for Antonio Gates as we close out our top 10.

[Mike Wright]

For me it's a matter of projecting what I think the Chargers will be next year. And I don't see the run game improving by a major amount. I think it will take a step forward getting Ken with Murray with Or.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry with Gordon.

[Mike Wright]

Gordon. Oh man. I was so. I thought there was breaking news.

[Andy Holloway]

I stayed on Delaney Walker for a.

[Mike Wright]

Second with with Ken Wiz and Hunt coming back to be the O.C. i think there will they'll get an improvement in that. But I see it being still more of a pass happy type of an offense. Antonio Gates in 11 games, 85 targets and and all his counterpart there. Like you talked about. Darius Green is up in Pittsburgh. He accounted for 63 targets in 13 games. Philip Rivers to Antonio Gates is just a perfect connection. That is about as tested as you can get a connection in the NFL.

[Jason Moore]

That'S a Hall of Fame connection.

[Andy Holloway]

Is there any draft like let's say they go and they take a tight end fairly high. Is there any reason that would knock you off the situation?

[Mike Wright]

Not at all. Basically due to a tight ends and their rookie years are the transition is nearly impossible.

[Andy Holloway]

And if they. Because they've come out and said they're not done at tight end.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Which makes sense. Obviously they have to with history you.

[Mike Wright]

Got to have more pieces of the puzzling.

[Andy Holloway]

But it is hard to build a rapport with a new guy.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. And they can't if they wanted to. Right on the free agent market. What's in the rookie draft class. They cannot replace Ladarius Green with someone equal to Lidarius Green, let alone better. So it will be a downgrade at the other options there. I think you have them too high because of age. But I do agree Antonio Gates is going to be one of those guys. You'll grab him. He's fine.

[Mike Wright]

He will still be to me he will still be the number two target in the passing. If you're not counting Woodhead as one of those targets. But he's right now a guy who's going behind Ladarius green in the 11th round. A guy who. He's just. He's done it so much. I mean you're. He was coming off of a year where he had 12 touchdowns. Now that's probably an outlier of way too high. But you know eight touchdowns is not out of the question.

[Andy Holloway]

It will be interesting to see how Ladarius Green and Gates compete next year in the tight end rankings. You saw this when Vernon Davis and then Delaney Walker left San Francisco and went and kind of found his own path with Tennessee. So to run back the top 10 real quick, Rob Gronkowski, number one. Jordan Reed, number two, Kobe Fleena, 3. Gary Barnage, 4. Travis Kelsey, 5. Greg Olson, 6 ERT, 7. IFERT, 8. Walker 9. Antonio Gates, number 10. We are almost done here guys, but I A couple things stuck out to me from the rankings that we didn't get to. I want just a couple minutes for them. If you're looking at the rankings on the website right now, you, you see Austin Severin Jenkins at number 11 on Jason's rankings.

[Jason Moore]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

You also see Andy. Andy. You see myself and Mike, third person. Yeah. Apparently with Will Ty at number 12. Couple quick words on asj. Why do you like him and have him so highly ranked as a. Essentially in a 12 team league? You have Austin Severian Jenkins as a one.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Coming into the NFL draft he was as highly touted as you can get. He is a physical, a great option. You saw games last year where he was a huge breakout type of candidate. Individual games when he was targeted and he has the capability to do it.

[Andy Holloway]

258, second round pick.

[Jason Moore]

Exactly. So I think this, this offense for Tampa Bay is going to take a step forward as their defense takes a step backwards. Statistically. You've got another year with Winston. And remember last year all the jokes we made about about him not being able. I had the running gag of breaking.

[Andy Holloway]

News that three receptions.

[Jason Moore]

No, no, no, no. The injury that he was still not practicing for no reason every week he was banged up last year and still was okay in several big games. I think he has the potential, the capability and could have the opportunity just take a giant step forward. If he finished as a top five guy next year, I wouldn't be blown away. And so I'm fine ranking him at 11 back end. I'd rather have him over some of the older guys that, you know, don't have that same, that same ceiling. When I'm drafting late, I'm going to take a flyer because if I'm drafting late I'm probably going to stream the position anyways.

[Andy Holloway]

All right. And then the will tie. I mean, to me, I don't know about you, Mike, and you can speak to it. The reason I have him so high is I for one, I think that they really like him in New York. And if you look from like week 10 on, he was on pace for about 75 receptions, 850 yards and seven touchdowns and so if he's in that role, which it looks like that's his role right now, a pretty good offense, a consistency factor there. I just kind of like him as a sleeper because you're going to, I mean you can get him as late as you want right now, right?

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, he's going to be completely left off of most draft draft radars. He had the fourth most targets on the team in only 13 games. So I mean you saw Dwayne Harris play almost the entire season at wide receiver, had less targets than Will Tye. Ruben Randle, the second most targeted player on the team, he's gone now. They're going to have to replace a wide receiver and there's some, some buzz of like a Treadwell going to the Giants, but those will still be a rookie where Will Tye is in the system. Ben McAdoo loves to throw the ball.

[Andy Holloway]

The tight end is just a part of that offense.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, we saw Larry Danelle, a guy that they grabbed off of the couch, come in and have some monster games.

[Jason Moore]

The tight end is so used in the red zone for New York as well.

[Mike Wright]

So I just, I think that Will Tye, I'm not predicting, you know, top five numbers for him, but if you're going to blow off the tight end position, he's a guy I'm going to target.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. This is the point of what we're trying to say here. It's so deep nobody's drafting Will Tye and if you had Will tie, I'm drafted. Well sure. I'm just saying he's going to go undrafted in most leagues. Listen to some of the names we didn't talk about. Eric Ebron.

[Andy Holloway]

Yep, could be great.

[Jason Moore]

We didn't even talk about Julius Thomas, Jason Whitten who we started the show with. Ladarius Green going to the high powered Pittsburgh Steelers. Dwayne Allen now that Kobe Fleeners gone. Zach Miller now that Martellus Bennett's gone. I mean there are so many guys here that we're not even talking about in the top list who have a chance to be a top player. You can stream the position next year. You don't need to spend a super high pick. That's why I probably wouldn't do a first round around Gronk just because man alive, I'm not going to do here. I'm going to target very few guys. I'm going to target Greg Olson for consistency, Kobe Fleener if He's in the 8th or somewhere around there and then pretty much just I'm going to Grab him with my third to last pick.

[Andy Holloway]

All right, that puts a bow on this episode of the Fantasy Footballers Podcast. We'll be back on Thursday. We'll be doing a lot of listener mailbags, so head over to the website thefantasyfootballers.com click the submit a question button. We like to answer as many of those as we can. You can also ask them on Twitter, heffballers. Want to remind everybody about pristineauction.com for all your sports memorabilia, as well as our new sponsor and good friends, footballhaul.com that's H A U L. Don't forget to use the promo code BALLERS5 when you sign up on footballhaul.com BOOMS and enjoy it because it is super fun. We actually, I think we're going to be like recording us opening those each month because it's just super fun to unbox them. Who doesn't love getting something in the mail? I mean, presents, it's really my favorite.

[Mike Wright]

Thing in the entire world.

[Jason Moore]

I get groceries from Amazon now just so I can get things in the mail.

[Andy Holloway]

You mail stuff to yourself, don't you?

[Mike Wright]

Yes, yes. Hair clippings. See ya. Goodbye.

[Jason Moore]

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy Flicker Footballers Podcast. Join our fantasy football community on jointhefoot.com and follow us on Twitter at the ffballers.