Fantasy Football Podcast 2017 - Old, Bland & Undervalued Players + Hitman Returns

Summary

Fantasy Footballers Podcast Summary Episode: Fantasy Football Podcast 2017 - Old, Bland & Undervalued Players + Hitman Returns
Release Date: July 11, 2017

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Introduction and Welcome [00:28 - 02:04]

The episode kicks off with the familiar banter among hosts Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike "The Fantasy Hitman" Wright. They engage in light-hearted conversations about appearances and set the tone for an engaging discussion ahead.

• Jason Moore [00:28]: "Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers."
• Andy Holloway [01:02]: "The hair is wilding out, apparently."

Main Topics: Old, Bland & Undervalued Players [02:04 - 42:09]

The core of the episode delves into identifying and analyzing players who are often overlooked in fantasy drafts due to perceptions of age, lack of excitement, or undervaluation. The hosts aim to highlight these players' potential to outperform their draft positions.

Golden Tate: Boom and Bust [03:35 - 06:18]

Golden Tate serves as the first example of a player with inconsistent performance but significant upside when in form.

• Jason Moore [03:35]: "This player did it nine times."
• Andy Holloway [05:13]: "Golden Tate... we are talking some high."

Analysis: Golden Tate demonstrated volatility last season, finishing as a top-tier wide receiver in only a fraction of the weeks. Despite inconsistent starts, when he was in form, he delivered strong performances, making him a high-risk, high-reward pick.

• Eli Manning [05:28]: "If you're in a PPR league, he's a guy that will give you that weekly floor and you can get him late."

Larry Fitzgerald: Consistent Performer [10:00 - 16:48]

Larry Fitzgerald is highlighted as an undervalued veteran who continues to produce despite perceptions of declining performance.

• Eli Manning [12:19]: "If you're in a PPR league, he's a guy that will give you that weekly floor..."
• Jason Moore [15:02]: "Larry Fitzgerald... you can expect 90 to 100 catches from."

Analysis: Fitzgerald remains a reliable option in PPR leagues, offering a stable floor for fantasy teams. His experience and route-running ability make him a valuable late-round pick.

Frank Gore: The Veteran Running Back [16:09 - 19:55]

Frank Gore is discussed as a late-round gem whose consistency belies his age.

• Jason Moore [17:09]: "Frank Gore is a player that it's ridiculous he's going this late as a starting running back in the NFL."
• Andy Holloway [19:55]: "He's impervious to age."

Analysis: Despite being 34 years old, Frank Gore continues to perform reliably. His work ethic and role in the offense make him a dependable RB2 or flex option, especially in leagues that value consistency.

Pierre Garcon: Target Machine [20:06 - 24:27]

Pierre Garcon is presented as a sleeper with potential to exceed expectations due to his target proficiency.

• Jason Moore [21:14]: "Pierre Garcon... the least amount of drop passes."
• Eli Manning [23:46]: "I cannot see a situation, barring injury, where Pierre Garcon does not finish inside of the top 40."

Analysis: Garcon's ability to consistently catch passes makes him a valuable asset in PPR formats. His move to San Francisco presents an opportunity for increased targets, positioning him as a reliable late-round pick.

Jonathan Stewart: Undervalued RB in Carolina [26:12 - 32:06]

Jonathan Stewart is debated as a starting running back who is undervalued in drafts despite skepticism surrounding his performance.

• Jason Moore [27:15]: "Jonathan Stewart is going to provide baseline Gore-like value for fantasy owners."
• Andy Holloway [30:38]: "I would probably go with Gore."

Analysis: Stewart's signing with the Carolina Panthers and potential for a consistent role make him a tempting late-round option. While some hosts prefer Gore, others see Stewart's opportunity for steady production as a valuable addition.

Terrence West: Opportunistic Back [32:06 - 34:27]

Terrence West is discussed as another running back option with sporadic high performance potential.

• Jason Moore [33:10]: "Terrence West has never been an inspiring football player, but seven weeks last year he was inside the top 24."
• Eli Manning [34:18]: "Terrence West is going to be the starter through the whole season."

Analysis: West's ability to produce significant fantasy points in bursts makes him a worthwhile pick in very late rounds. His role in the Ravens' offense could lead to unexpected high-scoring weeks.

Philip Rivers: Quarterback Value [35:20 - 37:20]

Philip Rivers is identified as an undervalued quarterback who consistently delivers high fantasy points despite his age.

• Jason Moore [35:20]: "Philip Rivers with more fantasy points than Dak Prescott, Derek Carr, Cam Newton and Jameis Winston."
• Andy Holloway [37:20]: "I have nothing more to add to Philip."

Analysis: Rivers offers substantial value in standard leagues, outperforming many younger QBs. His experience and consistent performance make him a prime target for savvy fantasy managers looking to maximize their quarterback position without reaching in drafts.

Antonio Gates: Veteran Tight End [38:08 - 41:46]

Antonio Gates is discussed as an undervalued tight end who can still produce fantasy touchdowns, especially in Best Ball formats.

• Jason Moore [38:58]: "He's giving him that to me year after year."
• Andy Holloway [40:00]: "What do you put the over under on touchdowns for Antonio Gates this year."

Analysis: Gates remains a threat in the red zone, making him a valuable late-round tight end option. While his role may diminish, his potential for touchdowns can provide significant boosts in Best Ball leagues or as situational starters.

Mailbag Segment [42:09 - 49:16]

Listeners' questions are addressed, offering personalized advice on draft strategies and player selections.

Reaching for Players [43:03 - 45:47]

A listener named Jeff from Tacoma inquires about players the hosts would consider reaching for in drafts.

• Andy Holloway [43:46]: "Throw out the Keenan Allen and Martavis..."
• Eli Manning [44:08]: "I'd rather have Doyle than I would Gates for upside."

Advice: The hosts suggest targeting high-upside players like Keenan Allen and Martavis as potential reaches, emphasizing the importance of grabbing players with proven production who may still be undervalued.

Division Predictions [45:52 - 46:59]

John from Lexington asks about the Detroit Lions' chances of winning their division.

• Eli Manning [46:25]: "I do not believe that they will finish fourth in their division."
• Jason Moore [46:35]: "I'm going to go Green Bay, Detroit, Minnesota, Chicago."

Analysis: The hosts predict a competitive division with Green Bay and Detroit leading, challenging traditional powerhouses like Minnesota and Chicago.

Handcuffing Running Backs [46:59 - 48:08]

A question is posed about the strategy of handcuffing running back C.J. Anderson.

• Eli Manning [47:53]: "I would stay away from any kind of handcuffing of C.J. Anderson."
• Andy Holloway [48:06]: "I would not draft the handcuff."

Advice: The consensus is to avoid handcuffing strategies, recommending instead to draft versatile backups like DeAndre Washington who can provide value without the risks associated with handcuffs.

Adam Thielen Obsession [48:13 - 49:16]

Roxanne asks about the hosts' fixation on Adam Thielen.

• Jason Moore [48:29]: "All right, so you guys like Adam Thielen?"
• Andy Holloway [48:52]: "He’s less than Diggs."

Analysis: Adam Thielen is acknowledged as a reliable receiver who consistently produces, making him a desirable target in drafts. Despite some skepticism, his track record supports his value.

Fantasy Championships [48:58 - 49:16]

A fun question about who among the hosts has the most fantasy championships.

• Eli Manning [49:07]: "It's definitely Grizz."
• Jason Moore [49:13]: "He's undefeated most fantasy championships amongst this group."

Conclusion: Jay Grizz stands out as the most successful within their shared leagues, adding a light-hearted element to the segment.

Conclusion and Promotions [49:16 - End]

The episode wraps up with promotional content encouraging listeners to engage with the podcast through social media, visit their website, and participate in giveaways.

• Jason Moore [49:26]: "Check out playdraft.com/ballers... Your very own Jay Grizz."
• Andy Holloway [50:14]: "Follow us on Twitter @the_ffballers."

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Key Takeaways

1. Value in Veterans: Players like Larry Fitzgerald and Frank Gore demonstrate that age does not always equate to decline in performance. Their consistent roles provide reliable fantasy value, especially in PPR formats.

2. Sleeper Picks: Pierre Garcon and Terrence West are highlighted as potential breakout players who may exceed their draft positions due to increased targets and evolving roles within their teams.

3. Positional Insights: Philip Rivers offers substantial quarterback value, outperforming many younger counterparts, while Antonio Gates remains a viable tight end option with touchdown potential.

4. Draft Strategies: The hosts advise against rigid handcuffing strategies, instead suggesting flexibility and targeting high-upside players who can offer significant weekly contributions.

5. Engagement: The Mailbag segment underscores the importance of listener interaction, showcasing practical fantasy advice tailored to individual queries.

Notable Quotes

• Jason Moore [03:35]: "By the way, Brandon Cooks did that five times last year. But this player did it nine times."
• Eli Manning [05:28]: "If you're in a PPR league, he's a guy that will give you that weekly floor and you can get him late."
• Andy Holloway [19:55]: "He's impervious to age."
• Eli Manning [23:46]: "I cannot see a situation, barring injury, where Pierre Garcon does not finish inside of the top 40."
• Jason Moore [35:20]: "Philip Rivers with more fantasy points than Dak Prescott, Derek Carr, Cam Newton and Jameis Winston."
• Andy Holloway [40:00]: "What do you put the over under on touchdowns for Antonio Gates this year."

This episode provides valuable insights into identifying and capitalizing on undervalued players, offering listeners strategic advantages in their fantasy football drafts.

Transcript

[Andy Holloway]

What happens when the best athletes in the world lose? The Secret to Victory is a new podcast from Gatorade and Gimlet Creative about how the best athletes in the world use defeat to fuel a win. Episodes feature Serena Williams, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Matt Ryan, J.J. watt, Karl Anthony Towns, Kyle Schwaber, and the people who know them best. Visit gatorade.compodcast to listen now or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. This is hall of Fame and Marshall.

[Jason Moore]

Falk, and you're listening to the Fantasy Footballers.

[Mike Wright]

Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers podcast coming to you from the Play Draft Studios with your hosts, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore and Mike Wright.

[Jason Moore]

Welcome in to the show. Ah, we got the whole crew back again. Mike, I see you. You didn't get your hair cut.

[Andy Holloway]

No.

[Jason Moore]

Sure?

[Andy Holloway]

Nope. The hair is wilding out, apparently.

[Jason Moore]

Does it grow a little faster in California?

[Andy Holloway]

My hair just grows fast in general. Well, you know what sucks? Haircuts. Jay Grizz is wasting my time.

[Jason Moore]

Jay Grizz isn't here, but we have the one just as hairy. Mike the fancy hitman back from his trip.

[Andy Holloway]

Harrier.

[Jason Moore]

Harrier is probably the way to go. It is a large grizzly bear, so I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. Welcome into the show. The fancy footballers back again. We do have Mike the fancy hitman back in the studio.

[Andy Holloway]

What's up, everybody?

[Jason Moore]

We got. Jason Moore is here.

[Eli Manning]

Howdy. I never leave.

[Andy Holloway]

No.

[Jason Moore]

Howdy. Howdy, partner. Andy Holloway here. We're back. We have a great show planned for today. We're talking old, we're talking bland, we're talking undervalued players, and we're gonna look back at last year.

[Eli Manning]

That sounds terrible.

[Jason Moore]

Well, it's terrible unless you draft some of these guys and they help your fantasy team.

[Eli Manning]

This is, like, helpful.

[Andy Holloway]

It's like the buttered noodles.

[Jason Moore]

What?

[Andy Holloway]

The buttered noodles of your fantasy team. It's a little bit bland, but you know what? Sometimes buttered noodles hit the spot.

[Jason Moore]

It's last analogy in the world I would have thought about. And that's why we have you back on the show. Thank you.

[Andy Holloway]

Have you never done the buttered noodles?

[Eli Manning]

Buttered noodles are great.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, they're delicious.

[Eli Manning]

Garlic salt on there. What?

[Andy Holloway]

No, no, no, no. That's. I'm talking about bland.

[Eli Manning]

I'm talking about Jason Moore's version of buttered noodles.

[Jason Moore]

Right.

[Eli Manning]

That would be covered in garlic salt.

[Andy Holloway]

You're ruining my analogy. Jason.

[Jason Moore]

We're talking some high.

[Andy Holloway]

You know what's good with butter noodles? Pizza.

[Eli Manning]

Pizza. Now, that's what I call a Taco.

[Jason Moore]

All right, we're back. I've missed this. J. Grizz did not offer those type of metaphors on the show. So we are talking high value options for you in your draft. And a lot of the times, that's because they are deemed as either old players, bland players, or they're just undervalued for some reason or another. Like Eric Decker his entire life, sometimes you just have undervalued guys. We're going to identify some of those, and we're going to look back and tell you what happened last year with some of those players. Before we do that, I have a little game for you guys. For the quick question, we're gonna play another game of who am I? Ooh. All right, we're gonna see if you guys can figure this out before I get to clue number five. Okay. Okay. Clue number one. Last season, in nine of 16 weeks, I finished as a wide receiver four or worse.

[Andy Holloway]

Ooh. Okay, that's not good.

[Jason Moore]

By the way, Brandon Cooks did that five times last year.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay.

[Jason Moore]

But this player did it nine times.

[Eli Manning]

Impressive.

[Jason Moore]

Number two, I was drafted around the fifth round of fantasy drafts, and I finished as the wide receiver 19.

[Eli Manning]

Wow.

[Jason Moore]

By the way, that was the only clue I was given earlier by Brooks, and I nailed this one. So.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, I'm a smarty pants.

[Jason Moore]

No guesses.

[Andy Holloway]

No more clues.

[Jason Moore]

In the other seven weeks, I wasn't a wide receiver. Four or worse, five of them, I were top 12. I was. I was top 12. And the other two were in the wide receiver three range. So you're talking the weeks that he wasn't so terrible.

[Eli Manning]

Boom, bust.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, boom, bust is the message here.

[Eli Manning]

Okay.

[Jason Moore]

But finished 19, so that's.

[Eli Manning]

It. Was drafted in the fifth round.

[Jason Moore]

And was drafted in the fifth round.

[Andy Holloway]

Trying to. Oh, I have my guess. Wait, I don't know if I'm on at all, but I'm going to go with Doug Baldwin.

[Jason Moore]

Okay, that's a good guess.

[Andy Holloway]

Doug Baldwin.

[Eli Manning]

Doug Baldwin finished ahead of wide receiver 19.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

No, and I feel like he was more consistent than that. That's just the only name I can come.

[Eli Manning]

I'm trying to think of a guy that finished around there.

[Jason Moore]

Let me help you out.

[Eli Manning]

How about Emmanuel Sanders?

[Jason Moore]

That's pretty good guess. That's wrong as well.

[Eli Manning]

Sweet.

[Jason Moore]

I've topped 90 receptions each of the last three years. That should. That should be your Golden Tate. Golden Tate's the answer. Golden Tate. A little insight into how boom and bust Golden Tate was. Remember how bad he started last year? Oh, Golden Tate was done I feel like he was. Like the eulogy had been written on his fantasy career.

[Eli Manning]

I conceded a water bet with a listener. You know, it was. It was Golden Tate, Marvin Jones versus Marvin Jones, and I had already conceded it, despite the fact that I won that bet. Listener.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, a listener.

[Eli Manning]

Put you on blast.

[Jason Moore]

What is this? Brooks, you have a bonus stat in here.

[Brooks]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Why don't you explain this?

[Brooks]

His weekly finishes for the past three years. Okay.

[Jason Moore]

Okay.

[Brooks]

So he's been a wide receiver one. Excuse me. 19 of the time when he plays. Yes.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, okay.

[Brooks]

Yeah, this is past three years.

[Jason Moore]

I like these stats.

[Brooks]

Wide receiver to 10% of the time, wide receiver three or better, 25% of the time, and a wide receiver four or worse, 46% of the time.

[Jason Moore]

So 54% of the time. He's a three or better 46% of the time. That's boom, bust.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. And Golden Tate.

[Jason Moore]

You want to know why, though?

[Andy Holloway]

He seems like he should be a floor plate.

[Eli Manning]

Right? Right.

[Jason Moore]

As a PPR90 reception type of player, but not the case.

[Brooks]

Yeah, that's why this jumped out of me.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Brooks]

Maybe PPR a little bit better, but half point.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, we got. Yeah, that's crazy.

[Andy Holloway]

To be fair for Golden Tate, once those first five weeks were out of the way, I mean, he was. He was pretty solid.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. All right, find us on Twitter @ the FF Ballers. If you have been following the show, you noticed we had a third episode last week on Saturday, released Trace Trace. So we have three episodes a week now in July, and before you know, it'll be August, and we do five shows a week.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, my goodness.

[Jason Moore]

Starting in August. And I'm excited. I woke up on Saturday, I rolled over in bed, and I looked at my wife longingly and I said, I miss football.

[Eli Manning]

How'd you take that?

[Jason Moore]

She was like, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. You do talk about football for a living. So, yeah, check us out on Twitter. You can check us out on itunes. Leave us a review if you are so inclined. Also, head over to foot clanvote.com vote for us for the People's choice and sports categories.

[Andy Holloway]

Do it.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, you know, Mike said.

[Eli Manning]

So the news has been coming out. The news has been coming out that we are in the. The most difficult category for sports. So, yeah, we would appreciate it. If you enjoy the podcast, go to Foot Clan. Vote. Make sure you vote for us.

[Jason Moore]

There's a little checkbox on there that says, I'd like to be considered as one of the final voters. And if our listeners check that box you may be one of the people selected for the fun final vote for the actual winner. So we appreciate your support of the show, and we try to show that every month, like Footclang giveaway.com, where we're giving away a signed Ty Hilton Tevin Coleman Tyreek Hill jersey this month, a DFS pass, and your very own Jay Grizz.

[Andy Holloway]

It's too much.

[Jason Moore]

I don't think you were in the office when you decided to give away that J. Grizz.

[Andy Holloway]

I was not. That was a big surprise to me.

[Jason Moore]

Pretty nice, though, right? Wouldn't you like your own J. Grizz?

[Andy Holloway]

I would love my own J. Grizzly.

[Jason Moore]

All right, guys, let's get into the main event here. We're gonna skip the news because I think we're gonna cover some of it during the main segment of today's show, and we can get into more of that later this week. So let's. Let's do it.

[Mike Wright]

Old, bland and undervalued.

[Jason Moore]

Pop goes the weasel, huh? Cult classic.

[Eli Manning]

It's like a good old timey song.

[Andy Holloway]

It's a big hit with the kids.

[Jason Moore]

You know, it's funny, when I first heard it, I thought you were doing, like, a little lullaby play on, like the old man or the old players. And then I realized just now it's just pop goes the weasel.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I was trying to spice up the old and bland players.

[Jason Moore]

Sure.

[Eli Manning]

Yeah. That was a little bit of garlic salt right there.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. These are more of the pop goes the ACL version.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, no.

[Jason Moore]

All right, look, every year this happens. There are older players, there are veteran players. Right, Jason. That, look, these guys are perceived to have no upside.

[Eli Manning]

Yeah, absolutely. Here's a list of some of last year's guys that, you know, going into last year, they were undervalued. We knew they were undervalued. And they outperformed where they were drafted. Yet Drew Brees, he's too old. He's 37. I mean, he was drafted in the sixth round, finished as the third best quarterback at running back. You had LeGarrett Blunt as an old man. And Frank. Frank Gore, the oldest of both of those guys, finished as an RB one at wide receiver. You had two RB ones in. Yes, two wide receiver ones in. Michael Crabtree and Larry Fitzgerald, who they finished wide receiver 11 and 12. They were drafted in, like, the six, seven turn and in round eight for Michael Crabtree. Julian Edelman, he was drafted in the fifth round. He was the wide receiver 15. And then even at tight end, Greg Olson. Right. He's Old, drafted in the fifth round. He was the second best. 31 years old, Gates, 36 years old last year.

[Jason Moore]

Gates is actually Greg Olson's dad and.

[Eli Manning]

He finished as the tight end 10, he was drafted in the ninth round. So every year there's these guys that I think what it is, it's not, it's not always that you're calling for them to be done, but what it is is you don't think they have upside anymore. You say their upside is capped. Well, we just read a bunch of guys that finished as, you know, a positional one and they were drafted much later than they should. In fact, I forget what the exact number is. One of our writers looked it up and over the last decade or so there's pretty much been an average of two wide receiver ones who are 30 or older. 30 or older and drafted after the first few rounds. And so it's going to happen, it's going to happen this year, it's going to happen next year. Today we're going to tell you some of the best targets that it could happen with.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I think you summarize that very well. I think for a lot of people it is a perception issue. I also don't think any of us here, at least I'm not are saying go draft all the old guys. No, I think we're saying like, like there is a time and place for that. When I get at the back of my draft and I'm taking a week one flyer candidate, I'd rather draft Kenny Stills over, you know, Anquan Bolden from last year where I don't think I'm going to lean on this wide receiver five that I'm picking like I would Anquan Bolden. So I'm taking a home run hitter to see if they pop goes the weasel week one. But there are players that naturally walk down the draft board. They are lower value, they have been forgotten about. And so we want to talk about some of those targets and the first one that jumps out, I mean we already brought them up from last year. So I want to know your perception on them this year. And that's Larry Fitzgerald. I mean Larry Fitzgerald is perceived as probably all three of those old, probably bland.

[Andy Holloway]

He's for sure old. He's not probably old.

[Jason Moore]

Well, he is old. And the bland comes from, look, he lines up on the slot, he is a possession receiver. He's not the high flying outside guy that he used to be under the Kurt Warner era. So Larry Fitzgerald, ho hum. I just keep coming out. I put up with number 12 overall year last year, number nine the year before. But how long will Carson Palmer go? How long will Larry Fitzgerald go?

[Eli Manning]

I don't think anyone is calling for Larry Fitzgerald to repeat as a wide receiver. One, if you look at last year, towards the second half of the year, he was not really that great, but he is definitely undervalued. He's going in the seventh round and he led the entire NFL in receptions last year. I mean, if you're in a PPR league, he's a guy that will give you that weekly floor and you can get him late. You don't have to worry about, okay, what if he underperforms and he's a low end wide receiver too? You're getting him in the seventh round. That's fine. That's great.

[Andy Holloway]

Now, how do you feel about Larry? He kind of did this two years ago as well. Was great to start. Things kind of fell off towards the end of the year, especially for fantasy purposes. Now, Carson Palmer was a bit erratic throughout the season, but he was actually Carson Palmer was quite good towards the end of the year. You're talking three top 12 performances out of the last five weeks. That didn't really coincide though with Larry because Larry really struggled for fantasy purposes towards the end of the year. Is Larry a guy that perhaps you were drafting him, getting that value of the 7th and 8th, let him have a couple big weeks and then you would try and move him? Or do you feel like we can, we can have a better year from Larry? The offensive line in Arizona should be better this year. So do you have more belief in Carson Palmer sustaining Larry for an entire year?

[Eli Manning]

I think that's a really good thing you bring up because one of the things we do see pretty often every year is that some of the older players, they can come out on fire because they're fresh. Matt Forte, Larry Fitzgerald last year. And maybe they don't have, you know, everything in their body to keep it up the whole year. So I, I would, you know, look to move him if he's been on fire. You know, if he's a wide receiver one in week five, yeah, I would probably look to move him.

[Jason Moore]

I just to add to that, I think one of the reasons that happens as well and will happen in Arizona again this year is it's going to take time for Geron Brown to come back from an injury, for Chad Williams to come in out of the NFL draft, for John Brown to get back in the flow of things. From a Reliance standpoint, I would imagine Carson Palmer is going to be leaning on Larry Fitzgerald earlier versus late because he's going to build a rapport with those other players over the course of the season. That's a good strategy. I would also say if you get him very late, if you get him at a great value, you can start him in the beginning of the year and he can be a roster solidifier for your team as a wide receiver. 3. So that later in the year when you need the spot start, who would you rather? I mean, I'd love to roll Larry Fitzgerald out there on the bye weeks when my 1 and 2 are taking a seat. That's a very strong PPR play for a guy that you can expect 90 to 100 catches from.

[Andy Holloway]

Right. What I'm saying, you just, you're not, you're, you're not buying into. We're going to get a full, full solid season from Larry.

[Jason Moore]

I think you're going to feel it the same way you would have felt it with Frank Gore in the sense that you might end up in that top.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, Frank Gore last year was actually very consistent. He was fantastic.

[Eli Manning]

He was, he was.

[Andy Holloway]

Two years ago, he didn't feel like a running back one despite finishing as the 12. But last year, I mean, Frank Gore.

[Eli Manning]

He never had a week that was outside that. You know, here's the. Also had so many weeks where he was not a one. You just finished the.

[Jason Moore]

Finished the year as a one. He only had two weeks where he actually was a one.

[Eli Manning]

Well, let's talk Frank Gore because he's our next move on the list.

[Jason Moore]

Seventh round Frank Gore. I have drawn away from him a little bit, but he's still a player that it's ridiculous he's going this late as a starting running back in the NFL. And it's only because he's old.

[Eli Manning]

Yeah, that being said, he's very old. He's going to be 34 years old this season. However, you know, look, I'm a dynasty owner of this. Not something, you know, this isn't a proud moment, but I'm a dynasty owner of Frank Gore.

[Andy Holloway]

You did it.

[Jason Moore]

I'm a dynasty owner of Frank Gore.

[Eli Manning]

It's like one of those groups. Hi, my name is Jason Moore.

[Jason Moore]

I'm a dynasty owner.

[Eli Manning]

Frank Goren. Dynasty. Before the draft, I was trying to unload him for, you know, chips and salsa for absolutely anything because I assumed it was a locked buttered noodles even. Well, certainly he is buttered noodles. But I was, I was certain they were going to address the running back position and they did not. So he is clearly still the guy that's going to be getting the work with a. You know, what should be a very good offense with Andrew Luck. That's rare to get, you know, the starting running back at any age for a great offense in again, the seventh round.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, it's really about the round for me. I mean, last year I think he went around the sixth round. He's dropped another round, you know, as he added another candle to the birthday cake. He did not in the year. In a way that made me very encouraged. I thought Turbin took a lot of goal line carries. He had kind of two big duds to end the year.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, to, to, to be fair, I mean, he kills you Championship week. But that the final week is week 17. Not everyone's playing, but in the playoffs, I mean, you're talking two good running.

[Jason Moore]

Defenses finished 17th against Houston and 17th against Minnesota.

[Andy Holloway]

10 times. He was a running back.

[Jason Moore]

Let me, let me ask you this question with Frank Gore. I'm going to read you some players being drafted ahead of him right now. I want to know, if push came to shove, you'd rather have Frank Gore on your roster. Okay. Would you rather have Frank Gore. Would you rather have Bilal Powell on your roster?

[Eli Manning]

Frank Gore?

[Andy Holloway]

Who?

[Jason Moore]

Eileen. The Gore side as well.

[Andy Holloway]

Eileen Powell.

[Jason Moore]

Okay, what about Dalvin Cook or Frank Gore? I'm going to take. I'm going to take Cook.

[Eli Manning]

I think that one is, you know, not, not to be a cop out, but Frank Gore is a true roster concern.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes, he certainly is.

[Eli Manning]

If I need someone that I can rely on, I've.

[Jason Moore]

Okay. Legara Blunt. Legara. Blunt's a much better example. Perfect example.

[Eli Manning]

Without a doubt, it's Frank Gore.

[Andy Holloway]

Ooh, I think I would take Blunt there.

[Eli Manning]

What about you, Andy, on that?

[Jason Moore]

I would actually take Gore in that situation.

[Andy Holloway]

Man, I would take Frank Gore over Dalvin Cook, though.

[Jason Moore]

Okay, what about. Let me see who else is going in front of him. What about Spencer Ware or Frank or I'll take Ware.

[Eli Manning]

Yeah, I think I would take Ware as well. His upside is there and he should get the start to start the year. The reality is this. If you're building your team and you get to that seventh round, or really it's not a matter of seventh round, it's a matter of like that fourth round where maybe you've grabbed, you know, some, you know, you've got one running back and you've got a couple wide receivers that are really good and you're looking at. Okay, I've got to grab these kind of garbage 4th, 5th round running backs that I don't really love. You know, the, you know, a Carlos Hyde that you're, you don't want, you might not want to draft him and sure, his upside is better than Gore, but you can look at the draft board and say, well, if I just wait a couple more rounds, I can plug Frank Gore in there and in, in the meantime, be grabbing assets I really like at wide receiver. Or maybe take that flyer on that, you know, great tight end if he's, if he's dropping something like that.

[Andy Holloway]

Here's what you do when you're in the draft. You know, you're online live. It doesn't really matter as long as you have a computer. Once the fifth round starts, pull up some Frank Gore highlights on YouTube. Just start getting yourself jacked up for Frank Gore of what he has done. You're like, oh, look at Frank Gore delivering punishment. I don't care if it was eight years ago Frank Gore, because he's still gonna give you fantasy value. So just, just, just start getting excited.

[Jason Moore]

You're thinking with a name like Frank.

[Andy Holloway]

Gore, I mean, it's devastating.

[Jason Moore]

You would have more a higher average draft position just on the name alone. It's not Paul Perkins, right?

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, Frank, Frank Gore is a comic book character.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

He's impervious and you know what?

[Jason Moore]

Impervious to age.

[Andy Holloway]

He's a Marvel character. He ain't no DC character.

[Jason Moore]

All right, I want to bring up one of my favorite, I don't know if you call them sleepers, maybe high value players. Pierre Garcon.

[Eli Manning]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

Right now, standard league ADP of basically the ninth round. A PPR ADP slightly higher, basically the eighth round last year was under undrafted in Washington. Tons of players drafted ahead of him last year that he outperformed. Guys like Will Fuller or Tyler Boyd or Philip Dorset. It's funny because you see those names and you say, ooh, maybe they're gonna, maybe they're gonna run really fast and catch the ball. But not the consistency level of Pierre Garcon that we saw last year. Now, he was not a premier piece of that offense. And he's older, so now he shifts. He's the presumable one in San Francisco. New offense, an offense he's been in before. What do you think of Pierre Garcon's potential to soak up? What? I mean, I look at him as a guy who can soak up targets, soak up receptions, still has some of the best hands in football. If you look at the stats from last year, he was at the top of the league in terms of the least amount of drop passes. So Pierre Garcon in the ninth round, what am I missing?

[Andy Holloway]

You're not missing anything. It's. I'm with you that I want Garcon on my teams. He's a target for me. He's. He's shown he can still. He can still play. I mean, he's. He's been over 100 targets since 2013. And in fact, 2013 was when he played with Kyle Shanahan and led the league in receptions. He's going to an offense that's going to have to pass San Francisco's. They're bad. They will not compete this year. They're going to be playing from behind Blake Bortle style and Brian Hoyer is a very capable quarterback. So it's not a situation where they're always going to have to be catching up and the guy behind the center is garbage. It's a perfect situation to get a late round player. Now, I'm not expecting wide receiver one numbers from Garcon, but every single week you can start him.

[Jason Moore]

I think it's wrong to call him old. I mean, if you look at Pierre Garcon, you think he's old. But it's the bland piece that has people troubled. I mean, is desean Jackson old because they're the same age?

[Eli Manning]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

Desean Jackson and Pierre Garcon is the same age. Is Eric decker old? He's 30 years old.

[Andy Holloway]

Deshaun has an old soul.

[Jason Moore]

Okay. Well, I think it's because we've seen him, but here's been around. Here's another 23 years old.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm gonna need to measure this because I don't know if.

[Jason Moore]

Old soul.

[Andy Holloway]

He enjoys sitting by fire.

[Jason Moore]

Werther's original buddy of mine.

[Andy Holloway]

Possibly. Quite possibly. Now when Garcon switched from the Colts to Washington, when you guys saw him in the Washington uniform, did. Because this happened to me, I went, wow, he looks very large. Did you have that.

[Jason Moore]

You mean that epiphany?

[Andy Holloway]

He just. He just looked bigger.

[Jason Moore]

He's built a lot like Anquan Bolding where he's just thick all the way through. You know, he catches the ball. Strong hands. No, I didn't have that perception.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I didn't what happened to me. So I want to see him in San Francisco.

[Jason Moore]

Never had more than six.

[Andy Holloway]

This is like Groundhog Day. If he looks small in a 49ers uniform, I'm not dressed.

[Jason Moore]

How many. What's his career high in touchdown? You know What?

[Andy Holloway]

He's not a touchdown guy. It looks like six.

[Jason Moore]

It's six. Yeah. I mean, the reality quiz, Mike. You weren't supposed to look it up and then tell me.

[Eli Manning]

The reality is.

[Andy Holloway]

I apologize for giving analysis.

[Eli Manning]

The wide receiver one for Kyle Shanahan usually does well. If. If Pierre Garcon finishes the year as a wide receiver two in fantasy, I'm not going to be surprised at all. I think I've got him just outside that range. But he is currently going as the wide receiver 40.

[Jason Moore]

I got a water bet.

[Eli Manning]

40Th wide receiver off the board. So I got a great wide. I can't fathom. I cannot see a situation, barring injury, where Pierre Garcon does not finish inside of the top 40. So I think you're drafting him at his floor. It doesn't cost you much. And he could end up, you know, as. As a wide receiver too, this year. What's your water bet?

[Jason Moore]

Pierre Garcon or Jeremy Macklin?

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, Macklin.

[Jason Moore]

So, Brooks, you want in this one too?

[Eli Manning]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Who are you taking?

[Brooks]

I want the Garcon side.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes.

[Eli Manning]

It's a two on two. I didn't see that one coming. It's a team bet.

[Mike Wright]

Water bet.

[Jason Moore]

Done deal.

[Andy Holloway]

We have an article up on the site. Ben Cummins wrote it. He if you want some more Pierre Garcon nuggets of wide.

[Jason Moore]

Is it hype?

[Eli Manning]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, excellent.

[Andy Holloway]

It's the path.

[Jason Moore]

Then I'll read it.

[Andy Holloway]

The path to a wide receiver one fantasy season.

[Jason Moore]

All right. Hey, before we move on to my favorite old, bland and undervalued target in this entire list, I do want to remind you to go right now, this minute. Check out Ultimate Draft kit dot com. This is the our labor of love for the entire offseason. This is better than any magazine you'll buy in the store because this is updated daily. We've been making tweaks, we've been adding features. The ultimate draft Kit is the absolute best tool that you can use to dominate your draft. And the drafts are coming, people. They're on their way. I got a postcard. They said, I'll be here soon. The drafts are coming. We've got stat projections for every single player. We have over 100 player profile videos, tons of reports. One of my favorite things, I pull it up in the show all the time, are the consistency charts, the fantasy finish charts, where we see at a quick glance how a player finished every single week of 2016 and how they finished every single season. Fantasy football, and of course, much acclaimed Matt Harmon's. Reception perception locked and loaded with the top 50 wide receivers inside the ultimate draft kit and a ton more. So check it out at ultimate draft kit.com jump in there now because if you get in now, you take advantage of all the information right now, today and then every update that happens here through the end of August. So very excited about what we have there. The feedback's been great. Brooks bought two of them. I mean, Brooks is all about the ultimate draft kick. Oh, yeah. Well, I love Brooks now because he's on my Pierre Garcon side. All right, let's talk about a running back. A starting running back.

[Andy Holloway]

It's been in the news.

[Jason Moore]

A starting running back who's being drafted in PPR leagues in the 10th round. The 10th round behind players like Kenneth Dixon.

[Eli Manning]

Isn't he suspended for a couple games?

[Andy Holloway]

Three.

[Eli Manning]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Wait, no. Demarten has three.

[Jason Moore]

Behind a backup like Derek Henry, behind a backup like Tevin Coleman, behind Smash Jackson himself. Jonathan Stewart. Now if you had to categorize him as old, bland or undervalued, what would you categorize him as?

[Andy Holloway]

Old busted.

[Eli Manning]

Yeah, I think that would be what most people would say is old busted.

[Mike Wright]

Replace old busted.

[Jason Moore]

There you go.

[Eli Manning]

I mean, when he looks like a player that has been replaced by the team because they used a top 10 pick on a running back. Jonathan Stewart is older, has dealt with injuries before. So the narrative can easily swing to the fact that he is done. And we are saying that's not going to happen.

[Jason Moore]

Jonathan Stewart signed a one year 8 million dollar, 8 million dollar contract this year to play for the Carolina Panthers. And this is one of those situations where the narrative doesn't match. In my opinion, from what I've seen, it doesn't match the reality. The narrative is the fantasy football narrative that we all see. It's puzzle pieces. We're going to remove the Jonathan Stewart piece and we're going to drop in a Christian McCaffrey piece and you're going to get the electricity of Christian McCaffrey in the pass catching and we're going to just throw the other one aside. But in football, this doesn't work out that way. You have players that are favorites of coaches. You have players that have been productive. It's not like he wasn't productive last year.

[Eli Manning]

Well, it's not like we haven't seen this same coaching staff using multiple good running backs. You know, when with this same running back with Jonathan Stewart and D'Angelo Williams, I mean, they have done it before. Why they would kick him to the curb would it's just not going to happen. I think the question though is what is the upside if he does, you know, go into more of a 50, 50 timeshare. Does that worry you? Because last year he finished, he missed three games. So you got to keep that in mind.

[Jason Moore]

But does that worry me at all with the 10th round?

[Eli Manning]

Yes, sure.

[Jason Moore]

That's the thing for me. And look, I said this on the show last week. I was going to ruin Jonathan Stewart's adp. Like I said, I in a. I'm going to ruin it for myself. I saw fantasy ADHD just post yesterday. He said, Whoa, Jonathan Stewart is Mr. Popular all of a sudden in MFL 10 leagues because he's starting to get drafted a little higher. Well, duh. He's a starting running back. We can talk all we want about Terrence west over the first four weeks of the year. Jonathan Stewart, the propensity and reality that, you know, Ron Rivera's come out, they don't want Cam Newton to run as much. They want him to throw the ball quicker when you're down around the goal line. I don't know why you would take the chance with Cam Newton when Jonathan Stewart showed an ability to get in there last year. This is a, this is a blinders on situation for fantasy owners, for me. And the Blinders say Christian McCaffrey, Christian McCaffrey, Christian Mccaffrey. I think McCaffrey can be fine in PPR leagues running back too. But Jonathan Stewart is going to provide baseline Gore like value for people from week to week. I think he's just a steal where he's at and I'm going to probably ruin where he's at.

[Andy Holloway]

I agree that I like him as a value. I'm not nearly as positive though as.

[Jason Moore]

A drop from the fourth round to the ninth round this year, by the way.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, it's, it's very strange. It's, it's, it's got to be all.

[Eli Manning]

With it's all McCaffrey, McCaffrey.

[Andy Holloway]

Because I was looking up, you know, running backs drafted in the top 10 and I believe it's of this is since 2000 running backs in the top 10. I think I'm counting 15 total guys and 10 of those had well over 200 touches. So it's then if all those touches are going to Christian McCaffrey, which history shows that that's what should happen, then how much work is there for Jonathan Stewart who is going to break down. He hasn't played a full season since 2011, which curiously enough that's Frank Gore has played every game since 2011. So if you're looking at, let's say you got to make the decision between the two. Andy, are you going Frank Gore, are you going Jonathan Stewart?

[Jason Moore]

I'll probably go with Gore.

[Eli Manning]

Yeah. I think you, you've got to go with Gore. The competition there, Robert Turbin is no Christian McCaffrey for me. I do agree that the 10th round is too low for Jonathan Stewart starting running back. I'm much more on the side of Mike in the sense that I don't really like Carolina's offense. I think they're going to take Cam away from his running game and focus on the passing game there. And I don't think that's going to work out well for them personally. I just don't think. I mean like, I don't really want any Carolina Panther to be honest. Yeah, I'm going to throw some shade out.

[Jason Moore]

I don't necessarily have that approach and I'm not trying to make Jonathan Stewart my starter. I'm just thinking that Mike has been the biggest advocate. Look, you fill your bench up with these running back opportunities that you have. He's a player that four of the last six weeks last year was an RB2 including had a number six overall week. I think there's opportunity there for Jonathan Stewart and if people see that opportunity in a guy like Derek Henry behind DeMarco Murray to still be a value, you know, Jonathan Stewart's gonna be the guy getting the ball in first and second down to start this year to in my opinion. Yeah.

[Eli Manning]

I mean, Thomas Rawls is going right next to him.

[Jason Moore]

Oh.

[Eli Manning]

And. Oh, I mean, so that, that should show you. I mean if you're at that point in your draft where your options are, you know, Thomas Rawls or Jamal Williams. Yeah. I mean, look, Jonathan Stewart is the better option really late in those double digit rounds.

[Jason Moore]

All right. Another player kind of similar in ADP right now, Terence west is another old, bland and undervalued guy. Forgotten player. Somebody who, you know, Kenneth Dixon probably is. Is he still being drafted ahead of Terrence West?

[Andy Holloway]

I assume so. I will vet that.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, vet that. I mean, Terrence West.

[Eli Manning]

Yeah, I like Terrence West.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, he's drafted. Dixon's drafted two rounds ahead. Danny Woodhead's ahead of him.

[Eli Manning]

Terrence west has never been an inspiring football player and that sets, you know, fantasy players against them. You know, Terrence west has been the butt of too many jokes.

[Jason Moore]

Well, when you have an opportunity and then you fail at it.

[Eli Manning]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

And you get it you move to another team you've kind of been given up on. But seven weeks last year he was inside the top 24. That's impressive in and of itself. When he came out of nowhere to do that, he was a player that we can all admit in preseason looked a little bit better than we had ever seen before. And they have some confidence in him. So we want to bring him to your attention because he's a player that's being drafted behind Thomas Rawls, the aforementioned and the Ravens.

[Andy Holloway]

We all know that the past two years the Ravens have been just chucking the ball nonstop under Mark Tressman's offense. You have Marty Morn Wig is the new oc. Yeah, he took over last year. I know things didn't really change, but to me that's one of those things of the ships already going full steam ahead. We can't implement a whole entire new offense. But the last five years Marty has been an oc, his teams have averaged the sixth most rushing yards in the league. Things could drastically change for the play calling for, for the Ravens. I'm, I'm not guaranteeing that they will, but when your OC has that kind of pedigree, track record. Right. For getting things out of the running game and it's, it hasn't been working. The going, going strictly to the passing game did not work for Baltimore. That's why Mark Tressman was booted out of town after just a year and a half as being the oc. So it would not surprise me at all to see the pendulum swing much heavier to the run game. And Terrence west is a starter for.

[Eli Manning]

Four weeks at least.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, at least. Maybe it's not maybe Kenneth Dixon takes over, but four weeks, 25% of your season, a free running back.

[Eli Manning]

The thing about the Kenneth Dixon is, you know, situation is that people are like, well, when Kenneth Dixon comes back, then Terrence west goes away. It's like, wait, Kenneth Dixon was there last year and Dixon was the starter with the exact same running back group. Yes, West. So I think west is going to be the starter through the whole season.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, Dixon has the most to prove to this roster to have the opportunity. They spent the money on Danny Woodhead. They brought him in. I think Woodhead's roles fairly solidified in the third down position. It's going to be Dixon that has to break into the rotation. Philip Rivers definitely qualifies as an older quarterback. Here we have him in our old bland and undervalued through a lot of interceptions last year, a lot of interceptions, but he can play, my friends, he can play and he likes to sling it. And he to me is one of those players that can have, he can put up a 5,000 yard season.

[Eli Manning]

He had such a new group of wide receivers to throw to, right. Because his Keenan Allen tried and true went away. So you had kind of year ones really. I mean not necessarily, not actually. But the first situation where Tyrell Williams was a go to guy and Inman and Travis Benjamin coming over in free agency, it was when you've got that, you've got miscommunication on routes, interceptions happen. Now you bring that whole group back for another year. Add Keenan Allen, another year with Hunter Henry, that you've improved the offensive line. You draft A top 10 wide receiver this year, Philip Rivers, you look at his consistency over his career and pretty much over the last decade, seven out of the last 10 years, he's been a QB1. I expect him to be a QB1 again this year. If you're in six point per touchdown leagues and he's, you know, he's older and he's unsexy and so he's dropping in drafts. Also he makes the worst faces in all of football. I put him against anyone. Eli, yeah, Eli's up there. He would be, you know, if this was like tournament style, they'd be near the championship.

[Jason Moore]

But Phil Rivers in six point leagues I have Philip Rivers with more fantasy points than Dak Prescott, Derek Carr, Cam Newton and Jameis Winston. So I'm burning down the house. I'm putting him in a category of wonderful weights because I can just wait through the draft and wait until some of these bigger names because probably all four of those are going to go off the board ahead of Philip Rivers. And that only has Philip rivers about the 12 in my ranking. So he's basically going to end up either free or I'm going to get another value on a great quarterback. I just love the opportunity for a player like that. With Keenan Allen coming back, Mike Williams being drafted, the offensive line much improved in my opinion. You have a guy in Melvin Gordon that can catch the ball to the backfield. There's a lot to like about Philip Rivers in this year. Moving to la.

[Andy Holloway]

I have nothing more to add to Philip.

[Jason Moore]

I have nothing to say. All right, last couple of tight ends here.

[Andy Holloway]

So it's the tight end. There's the, you know the movie no country for Old Men. The tight end is.

[Jason Moore]

It is a country for old Men. It's the only saw that with Tony Gonzalez years ago, lost some athleticism. Still Valuable on the field. Jason Whitten, the eternal tight end one don't understand how this is possible. Jason Whitten has been a tight end one for 10 consecutive years because every game last year tight end number 12 not that I'm impressed with week to week performance from Jason Whitten but Whitten and Gates, Whitten and Gates.

[Eli Manning]

Gates is the guy that is just completely forgotten this year in drafts. I'm getting him in a lot of best ball, you know play draft leagues because he goes so late and you think he's done but I mean that's just ridiculous. If you look at when he played last year, he was, you know, as good as ever. He had so many top, you know, tight end one seven of his last.

[Jason Moore]

Ten weeks were tied in one numbers.

[Andy Holloway]

Now do you still like Antonio Gates given it was reported out of not San Diego anymore. The Los Angeles staff, it was actually reported. They admitted they were force feeding Antonio Gates because they wanted to get him the touchdown record. Do you. And there's the talk of well we're going to use him a little bit less but so you're talking between the numbers but we will bring him in for goal line red zone work. Do you still feel the same about Antonio Gates?

[Jason Moore]

See I think there's something to be said about when they tried to throw him the ball in the end zone he would catch it for a touchdown like that to me year after year. Look, if there was a different quarterback, if Philip Rivers wasn't the quarterback in Los Angeles, I'd have far more concerns about Antonio Gates making actual contributions fantasy wise this year. But it's hard to teach an old Rivers new tricks.

[Eli Manning]

What week did Antonio Gates get the record?

[Andy Holloway]

I think he tied it the last week of the season.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Eli Manning]

Oh really?

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, he did. I just think that he's one of those undervalued players. Last year his ADP was 906. Where is he this year? Do we. I don't.

[Andy Holloway]

Is he undrafted?

[Jason Moore]

Brooks?

[Eli Manning]

Yeah, he's.

[Jason Moore]

I don't see that in there. Oh, he's undrafted. Undrafted in both standard and PPR leagues. So I love him in basketball. I would say that's my favorite format for him because I could see, I could see him making contributions every third week but it might be to the tune of two or three touchdowns in a single game where it just works out that way. I like Henry but the volume wasn't there from last week. I don't think they're going to move completely away from me.

[Eli Manning]

What do you put the over under on touchdowns for Antonio Gates this year.

[Jason Moore]

Ooh, the over under. I would put it at six and a half.

[Andy Holloway]

I was going to say seven. If I give you the number seven, what do you do?

[Eli Manning]

Right. That's tough. If you give me seven, that's tough. I want to call for the push. The point is this is an undrafted guy who's literally, I mean he's, you know, the probably the 20 plus tight end taken off of best ball leagues. And when you don't have to predict which week those touchdowns are coming, you compare that to the other guys going around him who are going to end up with four touchdowns in the year and never break into the roster, never get you any fantasy points. If you're in best ball. This is. I mean, Gates is delicious.

[Andy Holloway]

What about redraft then? Are you leaving your draft with Antonio Gates as your starting tight end?

[Jason Moore]

No, I'm not. Not. I don't think I see this is the problem. Let's just talk about it philosophically, okay? Because everything we're saying is true and I believe it all. But at the end of my draft, I feel better going into week one with an upside play that a breakout tight end, Eric Ebron. Like I'd rather go into week one with Eric Ebron than I would Antonio Gates.

[Eli Manning]

Yeah. And there's other guys.

[Jason Moore]

Well, it's more about deeper leagues, best ball leagues and opportunities for. Okay, Ebron doesn't pan out. Weeks one and two, where do I turn? I probably rather have Doyle than I would Gates for upside. Yeah.

[Eli Manning]

I also like Charles Clay. I like Charles Clay more and Charles Clay is another guy that if you're in a regular home league, he might not even be drafted. So at the end of a redraft league, I'm probably never going to have Antonio Gates on my lineup. But if you do, if that happens to you, I don't think you're completely screwed. You could come into week one and two. I mean, I usually stream tight end anyway, so it's not a huge deal to just go in and say score me a touchdown, Gates.

[Andy Holloway]

Dwayne Allen or Antonio Gates?

[Jason Moore]

Antonio Gates, Yeah.

[Eli Manning]

I think I would go Gates there.

[Andy Holloway]

Kobe Fleener or Antonio Gates?

[Eli Manning]

Kobe Fleener, no doubt.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, no diggity.

[Eli Manning]

I still think Kobe Fleener has the upside I talked about last year. I know everyone is upset at Kobe and at me for his performance last.

[Jason Moore]

Year because Kobe Fleener can't catch more than 50 passes. And he just shows you that every year he's 52.

[Eli Manning]

I was gonna say he's done over 52.

[Andy Holloway]

Are you taking Gates or Kobe Floyd?

[Jason Moore]

I'll take. I'll take Gates.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, you coward.

[Jason Moore]

All right, we're getting to the Mailbag. Let's answer some listener questions. We have someone who can actually sing the Mailbag.

[Mike Wright]

Mailbag, Mailbag.

[Andy Holloway]

Y I'm a little froggy today. I've been flaming all day, man.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, cool story, bro. All right. Welcome to the Mailbag, the fantasy footballers podcast. Head to the website, the fancy footballers.com. there's a little more tab on the side. You click the Submit a question button. Those questions, they come right to us right here on the desk.

[Andy Holloway]

That's the sound.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. We make Brooks type them up on little postcards and throw them at us. You can dial us at 330-2464, TFFB if you'd like to leave us a voicemail question. And that's the question we're going to answer right now. A voicemail question. Hey there, guys.

[Listener]

This is Jeff in Tacoma, Washington. Just started listening to your show. Really enjoy it. I'll be quick about this. All the talk about when to take players and, you know, you guys are always talking about how the price is too high for this player or that player. And I was just kind of curious if there are any players that you would be willing to reach for in this year's draft. Thanks so much.

[Jason Moore]

Who would we like to reach for? Is there anybody you're willing to reach for? Is there somebody that. Do we have our my guys established to the point where you're willing to go up and above where you think that they will come, like, so you don't risk somebody else taking the leap is the reason why I'm going to.

[Andy Holloway]

Throw out the Keenan Allen and Martavis. Brian are two guys that I'm willing to reach around for. Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Okay.

[Eli Manning]

For me, I'm going back to what I, you know, my lesson learned from last year that sometimes you're a year early on. Guys, I believe Eric Ebron and John Brown could still have incredibly great seasons this year and their draft prices is very affordable.

[Andy Holloway]

I say the good news about Ebron is a reach is just drafting him.

[Eli Manning]

Right? Yeah. You go away.

[Jason Moore]

I'll say Jay, for me, because I think the situation where you're drafting JJ.

[Andy Holloway]

You realize that he's going 111.

[Jason Moore]

I do, but here's my point. The point is that you're in a position there where you have to maybe go away from ADP and take him over to Marco Murray or take him over Jordan Howard. And I'm willing to do that. And so to me, that's a reach because I have to make a decision between those players.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, Jeremy Macklin.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. I'll take J.J. over Jeremy.

[Eli Manning]

I get Jeremy Macklin. I reach for him over his ADP every draft right now.

[Jason Moore]

No, go ahead, go ahead. All right, Petey Pablo says oh is running North Carolina. Is running back Marlon Mack a good option, late rounds and ppr? It's a good question.

[Andy Holloway]

I can't believe Petey Pablo listens to the show.

[Jason Moore]

What do you think, Marlon Mack? Man, I don't know who Petey Pablo is.

[Eli Manning]

Oh, North Carolina.

[Andy Holloway]

All right, fine. You. You and your.

[Jason Moore]

Anybody.

[Eli Manning]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Brooks cackling over here. He's got to know who he is.

[Eli Manning]

Brooks. Is that a confirmation I know of his existence? Okay, well, there you go.

[Andy Holloway]

Raise up. Jason, take your shirt off. Spin around your head like a helicopter. Come on, fellas.

[Eli Manning]

All right, I got you. Why people like you, Mike, there a good option. Late rounds in ppr. There are other options I would prefer. If he breaks out, great. Then. Then, yes, he's a good flyer, but I'm gonna.

[Andy Holloway]

If he breaks out, that he was a really good.

[Eli Manning]

Exactly. My point is I'm not predicting the breakout.

[Jason Moore]

No, I don't think. I don't think any of us are. All right, let's hop into another voicemail question from the Foot Clan.

[Listener]

This is John from Lexington, Kentucky.

[Andy Holloway]

Do you all want to agree with.

[Listener]

Me or what are your thoughts on the Detroit Lions winning their division?

[Jason Moore]

I'm just curious on what you think.

[Listener]

They've made some great offseason pickups, offensive line wise.

[Andy Holloway]

Give me your thoughts. Do you want to agree with.

[Eli Manning]

I will say this in defense of.

[Andy Holloway]

The Lions Jedi on us.

[Eli Manning]

I do not believe that they will finish fourth in their division. I think that they will beat the Bears for sure.

[Jason Moore]

How do you see that division breaking out?

[Eli Manning]

I'm going to go Minnesota, Green Bay, the Lions, then the Bears.

[Jason Moore]

I'm actually going to go Green Bay, Detroit, Minnesota, Chicago.

[Andy Holloway]

Say that again. Green Bay, Detroit.

[Jason Moore]

Green Bay, Detroit. Ooh, Minnesota, Chicago. So I do like Detroit quite a bit. I don't think they're going to get past Mr. Aaron Rodgers in primetime. Two matchups that year. That'll define the division to me.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I'm going to go Green Bay, Minnesota, Detroit, Chicago.

[Eli Manning]

So we are in agreement, Mike?

[Andy Holloway]

I thought you had. Oh, no, that's right.

[Eli Manning]

I did. We are not.

[Jason Moore]

We are not in agreement, Mike. Handcuffing C.J. anderson. This is a question from Nathan Orlando, Florida. Is it better to Handcuff Anderson with Booker or roster someone like Jalen Rashard or Jamal Williams. That. Look, I'm not really happy with either of those situations. Really?

[Eli Manning]

Yeah. We don't like to draft handcuffs. If. If you want, I would rather have.

[Jason Moore]

You got Jamal Charles in the mix right now.

[Eli Manning]

Jamal Williams, at least. At least when you draft him, he's. If it came out and in week one, they could end up just saying, okay, you're way more involved than we expected. I don't think that that could happen over Marshawn lynch with the Jalen Richard. It certainly is not going to happen with Booker. I don't even know that Booker would be the right handcuff. You've got Henderson. That's looking good. Who knows what the health is of Jamal Charles. So I would stay away from any kind of handcuffing of C.J. anderson.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. I would not draft the handcuff. If you are wanting the backup for Oakland, just as that. Well, what if Marshawn is not actually healthy enough to play? I would be grabbing DeAndre Washington.

[Eli Manning]

Yeah, I prefer DeAndre.

[Jason Moore]

All right, here's a question from Roxanne. Roxanne.

[Eli Manning]

Thank you.

[Jason Moore]

Am I the only one hooked on a Thiel?

[Andy Holloway]

No way.

[Eli Manning]

Oh, goodness, no. There's a reason I put Minnesota at the top of my list.

[Andy Holloway]

There's only one reason.

[Eli Manning]

There's a lot of reasons. Oh, come on, Ryan.

[Andy Holloway]

Could you not find the other drop?

[Jason Moore]

No, I could. That's the hype train, though.

[Andy Holloway]

All right.

[Jason Moore]

All right. So you guys like Adam Thielen?

[Andy Holloway]

Yes, I like Adam Thielen. He's not.

[Jason Moore]

He's less than Diggs.

[Eli Manning]

Oh, yes.

[Andy Holloway]

He's less than Diggs. He's a. I mean, he's a wide receiver. 3. But the excellent thing about Thielen, you know, late in drafts, you've already seen the proof that he can just go bananas on the team.

[Eli Manning]

He's tall, he's fast.

[Andy Holloway]

They paid him.

[Eli Manning]

Yeah, there's a lot to like in Adam Thielen.

[Jason Moore]

John Hicks wants to know who has the most fantasy championships amongst the three of us or. I'm sorry, Jason, Mike, Andy, or Jay Grizz.

[Eli Manning]

It's definitely Grizz.

[Jason Moore]

He's undefeated most fantasy championships amongst this group.

[Eli Manning]

Assuming this is only in the leagues we play in together.

[Jason Moore]

I thought you say the league is only the leagues we play in.

[Eli Manning]

So I've got. I've got two right now. Of those, I've got last year and the year before.

[Andy Holloway]

If we're. If it's the only. The leagues we play in.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, we're all about the same. All right, that is it for today's episode. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure you check out playdraft.com ballers. Get this. If you are into best ball, which we mentioned it on the show, there's no better place to play than playdraft.com if you go to playdraft.com ballers, you get a free entry into a best ball league courtesy of, well, us. We give you that. It's our gift to you. And if you want to check it out, make sure you check that out.

[Andy Holloway]

Make sure you're on the lookout. Possibly later today, I am going to be doing a best ball draft on the periscopes.

[Jason Moore]

Are you inviting people?

[Andy Holloway]

We're gonna open it up to fans, so make sure you follow myself and all of us on Twitter. You know, you don't know where the link is coming from.

[Jason Moore]

It's a mystery.

[Andy Holloway]

Goodbye.

[Mike Wright]

Thank you for listening to another edition of the Fantasy Footballers Podcast. Don't forget to visit us on the web at www.thefantasyfootballers. do. And follow us on Twitter @the ffballers.