Keep/Trade/Cut + Hype Train, Excuse Wagons - Fantasy Football Podcast

Summary

Fantasy Footballers Podcast Summary
Episode: Keep/Trade/Cut + Hype Train, Excuse Wagons
Release Date: June 11, 2020

Welcome to this detailed summary of the Fantasy Footballers Podcast episode titled "Keep/Trade/Cut + Hype Train, Excuse Wagons." Hosted by Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike "The Fantasy Hitman" Wright, this episode dives deep into strategic decisions for fantasy football managers, including player evaluations, league news, and listener questions. Below is a comprehensive breakdown of the episode’s key segments, discussions, and insights.

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1. Buy or Sell Segment

Topic: Over/Under on Wide Receivers with 100 Receptions

Brooks sets an over/under line of 4.5 wide receivers hitting the 100-reception mark for the upcoming season.

• Historical Context:

  • Last Year: 4 WRs achieved this milestone (Michael Thomas, Keenan Allen, DeAndre Hopkins, Julian Edelman).
  • Previous Years: 2017 had 5, 2018 had 8.

• Host Opinions:

  • Andy Holloway ([04:14]): Takes the under, citing declining performances and changing team dynamics for key players like Julian Edelman and Keenan Allen.
  • Jason Moore ([05:02]): Aligns with Andy, projecting an under based on current player trajectories.
  • Mike Wright ([05:07]): Contrarily opts for the over, confident in players like Thomas, DeVante Adams, Julio Jones, DJ Moore, and Robert Woods.

• Notable Quote:

  "I currently have three hitting it this season." – Jason Moore ([05:02])

Conclusion: The hosts are split on the over/under, reflecting differing assessments of receiver performances and team strategies.

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2. News and Notes

A. NFL Protocols and Season Start

• Discussion:

  • The NFL is advancing plans to return to club facilities with potential training camp starts in mid-July and possibly shortening the preseason.
  • Hosts express optimism and excitement about football's return amidst uncertainties.

• Notable Quotes:

  "That's what hype men here frequently. Sir, I like what you're doing." – Mike Wright ([01:05])

  "All seemingly small news bits like this... still get into my blood." – Mike Wright ([09:28])

B. Daniel Jones’ Ball Security

• Issue:

  • Last season, Daniel Jones struggled with ball security, fumbling 18 times in 12 starts.

• Updates:

  • The Athletic reports Jones aims to improve ball security this year.

• Notable Quotes:

  "Daniel Jones actually is going to have to hold on to the ball this year." – Andy Holloway ([11:04])

C. Hayden Hurst’s Potential

• Overview:

  • Matt Ryan praises Hayden Hurst as one of the fastest and most athletic tight ends he's played with.
  • Discussion on Hurst replacing Austin Hooper and his fantasy implications.

• Notable Quotes:

  "He could have a very capable breakout year this year and my dynasty team would thank him." – Mike Wright ([12:21])

Conclusion: The news segment highlights critical updates affecting player performances and fantasy strategies, emphasizing the dynamic nature of the NFL offseason.

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3. Keep/Trade/Cut Segment

A. Fourth Round Wide Receivers

Players Discussed: Adam Thielen, JuJu Smith-Schuster, A.J. Brown

• Andy Holloway ([15:25]):

  • Keep: JuJu Smith-Schuster for his volume and potential despite past inconsistencies.
  • Trade: A.J. Brown due to his high trade value and hype.
  • Cut: Adam Thielen, though he remains a viable option, JuJu’s upside presents a stronger keep-trade argument.

• Jason Moore ([20:00]):

  • Keep: Adam Thielen for stability and potential increase in value if players like Dalvin Cook return.
  • Trade: A.J. Brown for his elite upside and market demand.
  • Cut: JuJu Smith-Schuster due to declining target accuracy and competition from Mason Crosby.

• Mike Wright ([16:05]):

  • Keep: Leads with trading for A.J. Brown, leveraging his trade value.
  • Cut: JuJu Smith-Schuster due to his fluctuating performance metrics.

• Notable Quotes:

  "If you are not keeping A.J. Brown, you must use him as your trade because he can't be the cut." – Andy Holloway ([16:28])

  "A.J. Brown, number one in yards per reception... the hype is out of control." – Jason Moore ([19:19])

B. Fifth Round Selections

Players Discussed: Mark Ingram, Keenan Allen, Zach Ertz

• Andy Holloway ([24:19]):

  • Keep: Mark Ingram for his consistent top-tier running back performance despite ADP challenges.
  • Trade: Zach Ertz, viewing him as a stable but non-premium tight end option.
  • Cut: Keenan Allen due to potential decline in target shares and QB dynamics.

• Jason Moore ([30:36]):

  • Keep: Mark Ingram for his reliability and past performance.
  • Trade: Keenan Allen, considering his changed quarterback situation and potential for lower reception counts.
  • Cut: Zach Ertz, maintaining consistency without expecting top-tier finishes.

• Mike Wright ([32:00]):

  • Keep: Mark Ingram for his enduring value as a running back.
  • Trade: Keenan Allen, citing his volatile situation under new quarterbacks.
  • Cut: Zach Ertz, due to limited pathway to elite performance.

• Notable Quotes:

  "Mark Ingram is really, really good. So." – Andy Holloway ([28:35])

  "Keenan Allen's situation necessarily changed... his quarterback might be a rookie or might be a lower volume passing option." – Andy Holloway ([29:36])

C. Eighth Round Selections

Players Discussed: Jordan Howard, Brandon Cooks, Josh Allen

• Andy Holloway ([33:57]):

  • Keep: Jordan Howard for his potential to become a 1,000-yard rusher in an improved Dolphins offense.
  • Trade: Brandon Cooks, offering him for value due to his consistent performance despite team changes.
  • Cut: Josh Allen, focusing on other positional needs.

• Jason Moore ([38:15]):

  • Keep: Brandon Cooks for his consistent production as a top-tier wide receiver across multiple teams.
  • Trade: Josh Allen, preferring to oversee quarterback moves separately.
  • Cut: Jordan Howard, viewing him as an average option despite potential upside.

• Mike Wright ([38:39]):

  • Keep: Jordan Howard for his upside in the Dolphins’ offense.
  • Trade: Brandon Cooks, looking to leverage his undervalued status post-trade.
  • Cut: Josh Allen, due to the availability of higher-tier quarterbacks.

• Notable Quotes:

  "Jordan Howard... could very realistically be a 1000 yard rusher this season for the Dolphins." – Andy Holloway ([33:57])

  "Brandon Cooks... has been a top 15 wide receiver four years in a row." – Andy Holloway ([37:56])

---

4. Mailbag Segment

Listener Questions:

A. Keep Nick Chubb or Chris Godwin?

• Question: In a 12-team full PPR league, which player should you keep: Nick Chubb or Chris Godwin?

• Host Responses:

  • Mike Wright ([46:44]): Prefers Chris Godwin in full PPR formats due to higher reception potential despite Chubb’s elite running ability.
  • Andy Holloway ([47:18]): Aligns with Mike, emphasizing Godwin's reach in PPR settings over Chubb’s limited pass-catching.

• Notable Quotes:

  "The PPR League makes it a lot easier for me to keep Chris Godwin over Nick Chubb." – Mike Wright ([46:44])

B. Keeper League Draft Picks

• Question: In keeper leagues, which draft picks are forfeited when selecting your keepers?

• Host Responses:

  • Andy Holloway ([49:31]): Explains that most leagues require forfeiting the original draft round of the kept player, often escalating in subsequent years.
  • Jason Moore ([51:23]): Argues against rewarding draft picks for free agent acquisitions, advocating for separate treatment.

• Notable Quotes:

  "Can't keep free agents. That's my position. Always will be." – Andy Holloway ([52:46])

Conclusion: The mailbag segment provides tailored advice on keeper decisions and league-specific rules, highlighting the nuanced strategies required for different league formats.

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5. Hype Train and Excuse Wagons

Discussion on Player Hype and Performance Excuses

• Concept: Differentiating between justified player hype based on performance potential and making excuses for underperforming players.

• Notable Quotes:

  "Getting hit with hype similar to a lightning bolt." – Mike Wright ([14:38])

  "This is why you listen to the show and this is why you get the Ultimate Draft Kit..." – Andy Holloway ([13:16])

Conclusion: The hosts emphasize the importance of balancing excitement over player potential with realistic assessments, avoiding unwarranted excuses for player failures.

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6. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with the hosts encouraging listeners to join their community and utilize the Ultimate Draft Kit for enhanced fantasy football management. They reiterate their excitement for the upcoming football season and the continuous support for their sponsors.

• Final Notable Quote:

  "Remember, Foot Clan, Omaha Steaks delivers guaranteed quality and safety with every order." – Mike Wright ([53:30])

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Key Takeaways:

• Strategic Player Decisions: The Buy/Sell and Keep/Trade/Cut segments provide in-depth analysis of player performances, market values, and potential futures, aiding managers in making informed decisions.

• League-Specific Strategies: Differentiated advice for keeper leagues and PPR formats underscores the importance of tailoring strategies to specific league settings.

• Balancing Hype and Reality: The discussion on hype trains and excuse wagons highlights the necessity of objective player evaluations over emotional or biased assessments.

• Community Engagement: Listener questions and mailbag interactions showcase the podcast’s commitment to addressing real-world fantasy football dilemmas, fostering a supportive and informed community.

This episode of the Fantasy Footballers Podcast offers valuable insights and actionable advice for fantasy football enthusiasts, helping them navigate the intricacies of team management and league dynamics with confidence and strategic foresight.

Transcript

[Andy Holloway]

This is Dede Westbrook here with the.

[Mike Wright]

Jacksonville Jaguars and you're listening to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast.

[Andy Holloway]

Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast with your hosts, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore and Mike Wright.

[Jason Moore]

Welcome in.

[Andy Holloway]

Keep drink.

[Mike Wright]

Cut.

[Jason Moore]

Hey, I like that Mike. That's not bad.

[Mike Wright]

You like that? And you just stared down into the oblivion you got. I'm getting people hyped over here.

[Jason Moore]

Well, it was just a little loud to me. It caught me off guard.

[Mike Wright]

I apologize. I apologizing for hyping, for.

[Andy Holloway]

Too loud.

[Jason Moore]

Too much hype. Thursday, June 11 welcome into the Fantasy Footballers.

[Mike Wright]

That's. That's what hype men here frequently. Sir, I like what you're doing. You're bringing up the energy. But have you thought about doing it quieter?

[Jason Moore]

Are there a lot of hype men out there? Is this an organization? Are you a member? Are you a founding member?

[Mike Wright]

I'm not a founding member, but I am a card carrying member.

[Jason Moore]

Did you get in by saying it's football time?

[Mike Wright]

That was actually. That was my application. You have to do a thesis for your doctorate. That was my submission. They said, how have you changed the hype community? I said, exhibit A. It's football time.

[Jason Moore]

Well, I'm glad you got accepted. You've done a good thing and I'm just getting acclimated but excited to be with you. Foot Clan Mike is here in studio. Jason is at home.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm in my studio but with us. But I am here. I'm excited as always to be part of this great show.

[Jason Moore]

Now, if you're watching on YouTube, YouTube.com the fantasy footballers, you say you're in your studio. I know for a fact you came in here, you took a picture of the back wall.

[Andy Holloway]

That's right.

[Jason Moore]

You made it. Your green screen background.

[Andy Holloway]

That's right. So that I feel.

[Jason Moore]

So you can feel right at home.

[Andy Holloway]

Right at home. And I can see you guys and you can see me. This is great. This is, I mean the technology that we have, that's great.

[Jason Moore]

And you're feeling better today?

[Andy Holloway]

I am feeling better. But for the sake of all, I'm going to be cautious and stay here and work hard.

[Jason Moore]

Well, thank you.

[Andy Holloway]

You're welcome.

[Jason Moore]

We appreciate that.

[Mike Wright]

I don't really believe the last part.

[Andy Holloway]

No, it's fine. But it sounds good, right?

[Jason Moore]

All right, great show for you today. We have buy or sell on the show. We're doing some keep trade cut. Have some news to talk about. A reminder, you can get the Ultimate Draft Kit which is out right now, desktop app version. You get it all. Ultimate DraftKit.com and a reminder, $1 from every UDK sold goes to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. So you can participate in our partnership with them by purchasing the ultimate draft [e-mail] Very excited about working with them again this year.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

Shout out to the foot clan [e-mail] as well. And a reminder, you can subscribe review the show. It's a great way to support the show. Very easy to do Apple podcasts. You can listen on Spotify ad free on Stitcher Premium. Lots of ways to listen. Do some Buy, Sell.

[Andy Holloway]

Buy or Sell Presented by Pristine Auction.

[Jason Moore]

All right, Buy or sell. For today's show, Brooks put an over under of 4.5 wide receivers with 100 receptions. So to give you the history here, he wants us to buy or sell over under four and a half wide receivers that hit the hundred reception mark this upcoming year. Last year there were four. Michael Thomas, Keenan Allen, DeAndre Hopkins, Julian Edelman. In 2018 there were eight. In 2017 there were five. What do you think that four and a half number? Are you taking the over or under?

[Andy Holloway]

Several people last year were super close as well. Julio Jones had 99, so he does not qualify as hitting the 100. You know, Allen Robinson was 98, but I am definitely.

[Mike Wright]

They also would not count for this, this wager as well.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes. No, I'm just, I'm just saying when we say four hit last year, it was very, very close to being six. But yeah, well, Julian Adam hit 100.

[Jason Moore]

Well, it was very close to not being 100.

[Andy Holloway]

That's what I, that's what I want to bring up though is that Julian Edelman is not going to repeat. His situation has got worse. Keenan Allen is not going to repeat. His situation got worse. And DeAndre Hopkins, while he certainly has the talent and still a good quarterback, his situation has completely changed. So with three of those, you know, five that did it, I'm going to take the under and you know, of course we've statted every single player out. I currently have three hitting it this this season.

[Jason Moore]

That's how I see it too. I have three wide receivers right now, my projection. So I have to take the under.

[Mike Wright]

And I will take the over.

[Jason Moore]

Who are your five? Who are the five that you have going over?

[Mike Wright]

I have the same three as you guys. Thomas, Devonte Adams, Julio Jones. That feels like as close to a lock as you can possibly get. But then I also have DJ Moore because I have the breakout continuing and I think he'll be a PPR Machine with Teddy Bridgewater.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

And I got Bob Woods. I got Robbie Woods.

[Jason Moore]

I love that because I have over 100 in our main league. So that would be great.

[Mike Wright]

Just with the way that things have changed. Like we. We have to go in one way or the other. Do you believe that it will be more two tight end sets which then there's not another wide receiver as often eating into what. What Bob woods and what Cooper cup could be doing. So I got him going over 100.

[Jason Moore]

As well a couple of years ago. The other names on the list were Thielen, Juju, Antonio Brown and Stefan Diggs.

[Mike Wright]

Like Thielen to me, Thielen and could easily go over 100. Like something we didn't focus on. Because I think it's too early to have the let's analyze the Vikings without Dalvin Cook situation of. Because I believe that Dalvin Cook is actually going to make it back. But if Dalvin Cook is gone.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes.

[Mike Wright]

Alexander Madison gets a huge bump. It becomes awesome for fantasy purposes. But does that change how the Vikings call plays? Like, will they actually say okay, yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Not if Madison's not good.

[Mike Wright]

That's what. Like Madison, are you getting 18 carries a game or are we now transferring over, you know, three to four attempts per game into actual passing attempts? That. And that makes a really big difference for Kirk Cousins and Adam Thielen.

[Jason Moore]

Couple other names that I have getting close, for what it's worth. Alan Robinson, I have projected for 96 receptions.

[Mike Wright]

Certainly could do it.

[Jason Moore]

And DeAndre Hopkins, I had projected at 99. So he's somebody always in that category since he's done it so many times.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I've got DJ Moore close as well at 91. Talking to Robert Woods, Mike's guy, I don't have him that close because Mike said, you know, you've got to choose what system.

[Jason Moore]

Cooper cup, pretty high.

[Andy Holloway]

But at the same time, you know, you look back those last seven games when they did make that shift for the Rams. Do you want to know what Robert woods was on pace for? And that's not too small a sample. It's almost half.

[Jason Moore]

You want to know.

[Andy Holloway]

He was on pace for 119 receptions and 15 that would qualify 1500 yards. He was a beast the second half of last year.

[Jason Moore]

Okay, so we have two sells, one buy that was buy or sell from Pristine Auction. Use the code [e-mail] to get a $10 credit towards some Sweets Ports memorabilia. Talk news.

[Andy Holloway]

News and notes from around the league.

[Jason Moore]

All right, it's the off season, so we'll start here. The Seahawks running back room. Carlos Hyde told reporters, quote, everybody knows Chris Carson is the starter.

[Mike Wright]

It's just more evidence. We had the report from Seattle as soon as the Carlos Hyde signing happened that said Chris Carson is the starter. He is the starting running back. Which is why at the time when Carlos Hyde was signed and we react, we have nothing else to react to. In the off season despite best ball drafts are happening. Dynasty drafts are happening where we said Chris Carson is still the guy. Don't worry about Carlos Hyde. He is an insurance policy. So this is just a little bit more proof that if even Carlos Hyde knows that he is there for insurance purposes. That's why you still have to draft Chris Carson with the injury risk, the fumbling risk, sure, a little bit of that as well. But to me it's more of the injury risk. Is he actually going to be ready for the beginning of the season?

[Jason Moore]

But he looks sneaky right now.

[Mike Wright]

Yes he does. ADP1 yes he does.

[Jason Moore]

The NFL issued protocols to clubs laying out plans for players return to club facilities. I'm just going to hit this drop because I need the hype. Mike, you are the official hype man. So does this excite you? The fact that the NFL is getting ready to return to club facilities. They floated the idea of starting training camps as soon as mid July. We had another report this morning about maybe even shortening the preseason.

[Mike Wright]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

But is any movement, good movement towards football?

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, absolutely. I wear. So far in the NFL have they have said nothing of slowing things down like it's the NFL schedule is going to start on time. This is what we are aiming for and we've heard nothing contrary to that so far. So yes, all, all seemingly small news bits like this still, they still get into my blood. They still get the heart pump. A little bit of yes please. Football.

[Andy Holloway]

Just football. So you two know, I am ready for football. I am. My body and my mind are ready for football to happen.

[Jason Moore]

Well, that's good. Premier League was announced today. Football a resumption. So these are all good signs, good things. People out there wondering, hoping. We need hope.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

And there's a lot of it. The NFL has a lot of reasons to get it right and they have the time to do it. So we want everybody to be safe but we want. We know what normalcy means with sports being played and I think it means a lot to the psyche of us locked down individuals.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

All right. You know one of the things Daniel Jones struggled with last year, he had these up games these down games. He struggled with ball security. 18 fumbles. 18 fumbles and 12 starts.

[Mike Wright]

Yes. Now three. What do we got? Three fumbles recovered by a player.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

So that's not good.

[Jason Moore]

And well, because the news here from the Athletic is that he's going to increase his ball security this year. So that'd be good.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I would say that's necessary. That's like James is going to work on throwing fewer interceptions. He did that by being a backup. So check. And then Daniel Jones actually is going to have to hold on to the ball this year, which I imagine he can, he can fix that to some degree. Although there have been those players, Kurt Warner, Kirk Cousins, for who deal with fumbling problems, you know, pretty much their whole career.

[Jason Moore]

All right. And then Hayden Hurst hype. I want to talk about this.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Matt Ryan was talking up Hayden Hurst. Newly acquired tight end Austin Hooper is gone. Hayden Hurst taking over. Matt Ryan described him as one of the fastest and most athletic tight ends he's ever played with.

[Andy Holloway]

He is faster than Austin.

[Jason Moore]

Has he played with him already?

[Andy Holloway]

I have to imagine he has. Unless he's just looking up his 40 time and being like, well, he's supposed to be fast.

[Jason Moore]

Hayden Hurst was drafted first round with the, with the capability of being this dynamic pass catching tight end. Now he's given the, you know, you're taking capability, you're given opportunity. He needs to stay healthy. But the compensation that they had to give up to get him tends to lean towards a valuable role in the offense. Now he's being drafted as the tight end 12 right now.

[Andy Holloway]

That's great.

[Jason Moore]

That doesn't seem like a steal of a value to me.

[Mike Wright]

It is because, you know, oh, I'm in on that.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. I mean when you're the 12th drafted tight end, it's obviously super different than being the 12th drafted, you know, running back. You're talking about the last tight end starter being taken. So you can wait as long as you want for the most part. And he, he checks a lot of the boxes for, for the late round. High upside guy. He was my favorite tight end that season coming out. I really loved him. He was drafted in the first round, so I was hyped. And then Mark Andrews took over on that team. But the opportunity is in front of him. He is very fast for his size. You know, he's £250 and fast used in that Austin Hooper role. He could have a very capable breakout year this year and my dynasty team would thank him.

[Jason Moore]

You're going to adjust your rankings based on this specific news blur.

[Andy Holloway]

No, I've got him, I think, ranked where I believe he'll finish. But, you know, as we'll talk about in keep trade cut, there's a difference. And this is why you listen to the show and this is why you get the ultimate draft kit where we've got, you know, detailed blurbs and write ups on every player. Linear rankings aren't usually enough. You could say, well, I've got this guy behind this guy. But in a certain draft, I would, I would take the guy that's behind because of risk factors or upside factors or things like that. The upside for Hayden Hurst is far ahead of where I have him. You know, ranked on probability.

[Jason Moore]

Okay, I think that does it for news. Unless you guys have anything else you want to discuss.

[Mike Wright]

Nope.

[Jason Moore]

No hype, Mike. No additional hype.

[Mike Wright]

Nope, not yet.

[Jason Moore]

Okay, let me know.

[Mike Wright]

That's the thing is you'll never know. You'll only know because you'll just hit it because the height of the room will explode.

[Jason Moore]

We'll feel it in the air.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

Okay, let's do some keep trade cut.

[Andy Holloway]

Keep trade cut.

[Mike Wright]

I will say, like, yeah, you know, it could be like the hair on your arms. That would be the only feeling you would get, which I've heard that is a. Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

What is. What's the scientific basis for that?

[Andy Holloway]

Fighter senses.

[Mike Wright]

That's my spider senses.

[Jason Moore]

Static electricity.

[Mike Wright]

It's also, I think, something that happens right before a human is actually struck.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, by lightning.

[Mike Wright]

By lightning. All of a sudden you'll feel your hair starting to lift up because the charge is coming down. It's very similar to hype because, I mean, getting hit with hype similar to lightning. Very similar to a lightning bolt hit with.

[Jason Moore]

I'm so illuminated right now.

[Mike Wright]

Look, I'm here for all the hype education.

[Jason Moore]

All right, we're going to do some keep trade cut. I was laughing over here because Brooks put in our show, doc, he said he wrote this a fun game of keep trade cut.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, it's a fun game.

[Jason Moore]

We're going to play a fun game. All right. Fourth round wide receiver, keep trade cut. Adam Thielen, JuJu Smith Schuster, A.J. brown, all of these guys very, very similarly ranked in our consensus rankings. They're back to, back to back. The fourth round whiteouts. What do you think? What do you think?

[Mike Wright]

And it's tough because I currently have Juju ranked as my wide receiver 12. But right behind him is Adam Thielen. And this is the fourth round. Okay, So I got to think through my draft. You Know, I am either looking at my wide receiver 2 or even my wide receiver 3. So at that point do I go Adam Thielen feels like a safer pick to me. Just because you don't have the.

[Jason Moore]

Because Juju finished as the wide receiver 66 last year.

[Mike Wright]

Mike, it may have something to do with that. Where did Thielen finish?

[Jason Moore]

No comment.

[Mike Wright]

So he didn't have a great finish either.

[Jason Moore]

No, no.

[Mike Wright]

But they, they were both hurt. Juju had the quarterback problem as well. But taking the very. Taking into account the variables of risk, I think I would probably go Adam Thielen there as your keep. As my keep and monitoring what's going on with, with Dalvin Cook because like I mentioned, Adam Thielen stock could increase dramatically. My trade would have to be A.J. brown because one hype man to another hype man. That guy has some excellent representation in the hype community. If people are all about AJ Brown.

[Andy Holloway]

If you are not keeping AJ Brown, you must use him as your trait because he can't be the cut. His value is to some people so far beyond. There are plenty of people listening, going, well, the keep is clearly A.J. brown. Like that's 100% because his upside is tremendous. He's the number one. He's so he is my auto trade here because I'm not going to keep him. I think that the, the ceiling, if you just talking about upside, I think the highest is juju still. Because you just look at the volume. Right. Two years ago we talked about on the buy or sell segment, Juju Smith schuster had over 100 receptions. You know, in A.J. brown, I expect him to get better this year. And he, and he was great last year, but I think he only had 52 receptions. So, you know, the upside is with the guy who's going to have, you know, twice as many or, you know, half as many again receptions, I'm going with juju as my keeper. I think in the fourth round is where I'm willing to take him because like Mike said, that's at least my second wide receiver presumably. And I'm not taking juju as my number one anymore. Obviously a lot of risk. Big Ben's health. Some people are in on Deontay Johnson. Deontay Johnson is this year's Curtis Samuel. So, you know, I still believe in juju. I'm rising on Thielen, but I will cut him because the trade value of A.J. brown is astronomical.

[Jason Moore]

I just like that part of your argument was throwing in a little dig at Deontay Johnson.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

You know, when we ride the excuse mobile for Juju Smith Schuster. I mean, even in our doc here, 50% of Juju's targets had accurate, accurate ball placement in 2019, down from 61% the previous two years.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, it's pretty bad.

[Jason Moore]

It's pretty bad. Deontay Johnson was still more productive. Both of the players started.

[Andy Holloway]

What is your excuse?

[Jason Moore]

You don't have to hate. You don't have to hate somebody.

[Andy Holloway]

But what's your excuse? Why?

[Jason Moore]

To like JuJu bouncing back, being a.

[Andy Holloway]

You know, wide receiver, one before that.

[Jason Moore]

There's no excuse wagon.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, okay, so we're not. So I'm not riding the excuse wagon. Then I'm back.

[Jason Moore]

But when you say ceiling that season that he had 166 targets that he played with Big Ben, over 5,000 yards that he played with Antonio Brown, he still finishes the wide receiver nine.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

So he was.

[Jason Moore]

The ceiling wasn't much higher than the projection that you have for him.

[Andy Holloway]

Whereas Thielen, that's not necessarily the ceiling because how many touchdowns did he have?

[Jason Moore]

He had to get seven or eight, something like that.

[Andy Holloway]

I remember he had a lot.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I know the speculation. If he. Listen, if juju has more receptions than everybody, more touchdowns than everybody, he's going to be pretty good.

[Mike Wright]

He will have more fantasy points.

[Jason Moore]

So anyway, everything devolves into a juju argument. I don't know why AJ Brown, you're 100% right in that contention. He's the trade. No doubt about it. Number one in yards per reception. Number one in yards after the catch last year. No disrespect to AJ Brown, but the hype is out of control. I was curious. I'll go keep Thielen, trade A.J. brown, cut Juju. But I am curious if this question pivots because of what Mike said with safety. If your fourth round pick, you know, if that's your wide receiver, one or two, does it change? Unless you went wide receiver early. Are you looking for the upside of A.J. brown because you have two previous wide receivers or something?

[Andy Holloway]

So it does change. I mean, look, A.J. brown has an extremely high ceiling here, just like Juju does. To me, it changes. Like, let's say I go in on Travis Kelsey, which I am prone to do.

[Mike Wright]

Sure.

[Andy Holloway]

If I did that, then I would probably draft Adam Thielen here for a little bit safer route.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

You know, but otherwise. Otherwise I see juju's ceiling as higher than AJ Brown's. If you see AJ Brown ceiling as higher than. That's the way you would go.

[Jason Moore]

Don't pretend you can see his ceiling because you can't see it. It's so high up there. You can't see that ceiling.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm so happy to hear you talk like that about juju.

[Jason Moore]

If you let a balloon go in that room, you're not going to be able to see it.

[Mike Wright]

Juju's on the peloton in the like the aviary just geodesic dome.

[Jason Moore]

You trying to get a sponsorship here, Mike? Trying to get a peloton at your door. I need it. All right. Before we move on to our next keep trade cut which is some picks in the fifth round. Right now I want to thank our friends. Remember our friends, Mike.

[Mike Wright]

Shady Rays Love our friends at Shady race.

[Jason Moore]

They're an independent sunglasses company that does not overcharge like big corporations. Longtime sponsor of the show. They're the longtime sunglasses on my face. That's what Shady Rays is. They're out to do it differently with polarized shades at a good price tag. Best warranties. That's how I originally found them. Before they were a sponsor was just the warranty where they'll replace your shades if they are lost or broken for any reason. Because I kind of break them and lose them pretty easy. Doesn't matter what happens. You can drop them into the ocean, Mike. You can drop them into a lake, anything. They'll replace them.

[Andy Holloway]

Done that.

[Jason Moore]

Try that with your high priced shades. See if they help you out.

[Andy Holloway]

I've done that.

[Jason Moore]

They don't. And also Shady Rays provides 10 meals to fight hunger in America with every order placed. They provided over 10 million meals to date. We love them exclusively for our listeners. They gave us the best deal that they have to offer. It's a Black Friday type deal. Use the code fantasy for 50% off. Two or more pairs. So you got to get two pairs but you get 50% off. It's a buy one, get one free. So two pairs of shades, $48. [e-mail] where you can find all their newest and best shades. Use that code fantasy.

[Mike Wright]

We'd like to thank our friends at Omaha Steaks for sponsoring the show. Father's Day is on the way.

[Jason Moore]

Yes.

[Mike Wright]

Don't give them a gift. That's just okay.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, no.

[Jason Moore]

Break it down.

[Mike Wright]

You gotta give them the meat from Omaha Steaks. They're gonna deliver. Look, they deliver them. You know what's great about giving people a gift from Omaha Steaks? I get all the credit and I just went bleep bloop. Gift sent awesome packaging and you might.

[Jason Moore]

End up eating some of it. I must send you to your dad. No, I'm just saying you give it to somebody.

[Andy Holloway]

Come on over, let's cook up these grill.

[Jason Moore]

I love you, son. Come.

[Mike Wright]

I know how much meat that you have arriving, Father. I'm going to have to help help out. Look. Omaha Steaks. The variety of Father's day packages that include world famous steaks, burgers, franks, sausages. Perfect for grilling poultry, pork. Not a park you grill in the park, but pork side dishes. Look. We love Omaha Steaks. They've been a long term sponsor of this show and long term sponsor of our bellies, our hearts and our mouths.

[Jason Moore]

Mmm.

[Mike Wright]

Love Omaha Steaks. Right now, Omaha Steaks is offering our listeners access to a variety of amazing packages that are perfect to send for Father's day. Go to omahasteaks.com Enter the code footballers into the search bar. You'll see all the great options available, many that include free shipping and a free £1 package. They're perfectly cured. Incredibly thick applewood smoked steak cut bacon. There are many packages available that are perfect for dad. They're all ready to be shipped straight to his door in time for Father's Day. Visit Omaha Steaks.com type footballers in the search bar to shop for Father's Day today.

[Jason Moore]

All right, fifth round picks right now. Keep trade cut, Mark Ingram, Keenan Allen, Zachary Ertz. We got a running back, a wide receiver and a tight end.

[Mike Wright]

You got a couple of wild cards here too.

[Jason Moore]

You do, you do, you have we talked about Mark Ingram as a wild card. Keenan Allen didn't make the show. Could have easily made the show.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

Zach Ertz, I mean, stable. Stable is kind of, I think, what we all look at him as. He's our consensus tight end. 5. But you're sitting in the fifth round. Keep trade cut between these three.

[Andy Holloway]

Look, if fantasy players, if I could, if you could understand. There is a running back that has been a top 12 running back four of the last five years and the only one he wasn't, it was because he missed four games and he's the lead running back for one of the two best running teams in the league and was top 10 last year. And you can have him in the fifth round. I mean, Mark Ingram is my keep here. He's a guy that every year, I mean, 20, 15, he's the running back 12, 2016, the running back nine, 2017, the running back six, 20 the following year. There were always reasons. He's in a committee. He's got to be super efficient. He's, you know, he's getting older, whatever. It's like there's always a reason that he's going to not perform and he drops in drafts and I love scooping him up. I've enjoyed having him on my rosters for several years and I will enjoy it this year. So he's my key.

[Jason Moore]

I feel like you are falling in love.

[Andy Holloway]

Look, the last show on the Fantasy Wild Cards, I realized I was too low on Mark Ingram and I think it was because I was so high on J.K. dobbins. I love the talent, I love the match for the Mark. If you're out there, you need to know that. I started to look at someone else when the draft happened. I liked Dobbins and he's an exceptional athlete with a lot of college production and it took my eyes away from the truth, which is that, Mark, you are one of the best running backs out there and I will draft you in the fifth round. You will be mine.

[Jason Moore]

I do feel like this past week has been the Mark Ingram rediscovery hour.

[Mike Wright]

And it has, it has to happen every year.

[Jason Moore]

Yes, we have to ruin his ADP every year.

[Mike Wright]

We have to remember that we need like, we need to love Mark Ingram. I. The comparison that came into my head when Jason was going through that was I remember year after year trying to have the explanation with, with myself, with you guys, because this was kind of before the footballers, but Marshawn lynch as a Seattle Seahawk, I'm not talking about the Raiders years, but it felt like the fantasy community. Every year we wanted to be the ones that made the call. This is the year that Marshawn lynch falls off and I think I'm with Jason. I'm going to stop doing that with Mark Ingram.

[Andy Holloway]

Could it be this?

[Mike Wright]

Look, Mark Ingram, you've been so good for so long and proved the doubters wrong. For me, myself, I've had doubt in my heart and you came through with roses and grace and love and touchdown and you eradicated that doubt. And look, I'm not going to put it back there until you are the one who hand delivers the doubt as a dagger into my heart. And look, I won't ignore that it might come this year, but I'm with Jason, man. I'm back. I'm back with Marshall.

[Andy Holloway]

You know who I thought you were going to say reminded wasn't Marshawn lynch, it was Frank Gore. Frank Gore, sure.

[Mike Wright]

I mean, running back 12.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. Every year he's, you know, running back. I'm just looking at our consistency charts and it's like he's running back 16, 10, 17, 20, 13, 12, 19. That was up. That was all the way up to his age. 35 season. And every year when you got to like 29 years old was like, oh, he's done. 30 years old. Ah, he's done. Oh, he's the running back 10. Oh, he's, you know, it's like, this is. I think Mark Ingram is really, really good. So.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Did we sway you?

[Jason Moore]

He might be in our. He might become a UDK value at this point. No, I mean, I don't really disagree with this. You know, we want to predict, we want to be attracted to the younger player coming up into the system. But you have to acknowledge the value that exists now. Keenan Allen. Just to kind of discuss the other players in this selection, there's that we're.

[Mike Wright]

Out of time for everybody.

[Jason Moore]

You don't normally talk about Keenan Allen in the fifth round.

[Mike Wright]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

That's what's baked into Keenan Allen this year. Keep trade cut at, you know, you're factoring where you draft him. Right?

[Andy Holloway]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

Wide receiver 8 last year. Wide receiver 12 the year before. Wide receiver 3 the year before. Consensus wide receiver 30 this year. Now you look at the situation and you acknowledge, like you said at the top of the show, Keenan's not going to catch 100 passes from some.

[Mike Wright]

Not likely.

[Jason Moore]

Not likely.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

From some ensemble of Tyrod Taylor and Justin Herbert. So when you factor in value, both Ingram and Allen are both being forgotten to some degree.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

Right. Because the Keenan Allen at least has the potential to be a lot better than where he's being drafted.

[Mike Wright]

Well, 100% he does.

[Jason Moore]

But you can probably trade him on the name, can you not?

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I think that.

[Jason Moore]

Better than Zach Ertz.

[Andy Holloway]

I think the trade value is probably going to be better for Keenan Allen than Zach Ertz. I mean, obviously the value of all three is about equal. That's why they're all in the fifth round. But Keenan Allen's situation necessarily changed. Mark Ingram's situation did not. Mark Ingram was the lead dog and he had a good backup in Gus Edwards, who had 133 carries. If J.K. dobbins comes in and has 133 carries, it's not coming away from Mark Ingram, it's coming away from Gus Edwards. Whereas Keenan Allen, his quarterback is different. His quarterback might be a rookie or might be a lower volume passing option. That's, that's 100%. So he would be my trade here. I don't know what to do with Zach Ertz because I don't want him, I don't. You know, he's been so solid.

[Jason Moore]

There's no real pathway to a top three tight end finish for him other.

[Andy Holloway]

Than a bunch of injuries to everyone else. I mean, obviously Dallas Goddard is such a problem there when it comes to the red zone. You know, if the touchdowns go the other tight ends way, then Zachary Ceiling is gone. And Zachary has constantly been the beneficiary of being the last man standing, dealing with injuries around him or him being the clear and only primary target. And now this year, what's funny is I feel like it could happen again. I mean, you've got a rookie in Jalen Rager who's unproven, who's going to be needed. You have a super old desean Jackson, a currently injured Alshon. So he could, he could end up being. Every year it's like every year it's like, well, he's going to need to be the only guy there to really sustain that target level. But he could, he could be the only guy there. Again, I just don't want to play that middle round tight end game.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, 156 targets is what he had in 2018 to become the tight end to that season. No Mark Andrews had emerged, no Darren Waller, some other options out there weren't available. Ertz in the fifth round seems exactly where he belongs and exactly where he'll finish. So I'll go ahead and keep Ingram as well.

[Mike Wright]

Yep, I'm going to keep Ingram. I'm going to trade. I think I'm trading Keenan, but that's. It's tough man. It's tough.

[Jason Moore]

Okay, okay, okay. Let's move to the eighth round. One of these players I just drafted in the Fantasy Cares Eliminator.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, interesting.

[Jason Moore]

So in the eighth round we're looking at Jordan Howard, running back for the Miami Dolphins, wide receiver Brandon Cooks, the Houston Texans, and Josh Allen.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, excellent.

[Jason Moore]

An eighth round quarterback. Right now he's our consensus QB9. And then you have these interesting change team situations with Jordan Howard and Brandon Cooks. I took Howard with my last most recent pick in that league that was I believe the seventh or eighth round. So I was in the same zone.

[Andy Holloway]

Here, which is much better in the sense that the. I think these eliminators are like 17 player leagues.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

So the eighth round is not really like that. I was saying 17 team team. Yes, I was, I was mentioning the other day and so on our last show that I took the Tom Brady Gronk stack and someone was like, I thought you weren't drafting Gronk that league is very different. Super, incredibly tight end, heavy, super deep 17. It's, it's a, it's another world.

[Jason Moore]

It's a different beast.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

So Jordan Howard, you know, Miami should be an improved team. Huge amounts of draft capital. Has Matt Burrida in the backfield as well. Traded for him on draft day. We know the song and dance of Jordan Howard somehow unwanted third most rushing yard since entering the league four years ago. He gets zero fantasy points for that stat this year, but it's an impressive stat of resiliency and being kind of under the radar and continually useful. Do you see a season for Jordan Howard where it's like Carlos Hyde last year in Houston where it's just kind of good comp. You ignore it, but then the volume is there and enough volume at running back, you're going to outperform the type of average job position.

[Andy Holloway]

I do see that. I think that's the perfect comp. You're talking about a guy in Howard who could very realistically be a 1000 yard rusher this season for the Dolphins. They've done a lot of work on their offensive line and Jordan Howard is, he's never been bad. You know, it's so funny because he has crapped on a lot in fantasy, but he's never been bad. He was great for the Bears, he was really good for the Eagles. And you know, he's, he's not as old as you think he is. So I think Jordan Howard of these three, you know, he's one of the guys that I look at and say, yeah, in the right situation, I would want him to be a depth piece on my team. But of these three, there's only one guy I actively want like going into drafts. I'm not, I'm not going into a draft going, man, I hope I can walk out of here with Jordan Howard, you know what I mean? Like, but for me, one of my later round quarterbacks I like is the Stallion is Josh Allen because. Oh, excellent. Yes. You know, I, I believe in his talent. I think the fact that you've, you kept all the other wide receivers that you brought in last year, that helped him progress a little bit as a, as a passing quarterback. And then you add Stefan Diggs and when you combine that with the early season schedule, which is something that I look at for these later round quarterbacks, and you start with the jets and the Dolphins, Rams, Raiders, like, I think he could get off to a hot start. So he would be my keep personally.

[Jason Moore]

So you'd keep Josh Allen who Would you trade Cooks?

[Andy Holloway]

I don't know that Cooks has any.

[Jason Moore]

Value and then just cut Howard like everyone else does.

[Andy Holloway]

No, I think I might trade Howard because people need running backs. When you leave a draft. People are like, oh, man, my team's good, but gosh, I've got no depth here. I think people would be willing to trade for that more than Cooks. Even though Cooks, all he's done in his career has been really good for different teams, for different quarterbacks until this last season. And now he's got a great quarterback and has a chance to be the one, but for some reason, I just don't want him. I don't know if it's injury risk.

[Jason Moore]

Or it's a little bit of post Hopkins trade stink. I mean, that's what's on Brandon Cooks right now is the kind of, you know, Mike talks about the hype. You can feel it in the air. You can feel the hair stand on your. There's no. No hair is standing on edge in Houston after that trade. But that probably means Brandon Cooks is undervalued in that capacity. By the way, I wanted to see, just looking at the running game in Miami, what happened last year. Calum Balanche.

[Mike Wright]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

I wanted to see how many opportunities Balaj had on the ground. He started the year with a similar situation to Howard in the sense the de facto starter. Do you remember his yards per carry? He had 74.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm going to guess it was 1.7. He was so bad.

[Mike Wright]

This was sub three.

[Jason Moore]

1.8.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, baby. What? Yes. I was so hoping you would use that drop, Andy.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Brooks carved out our. Your guys is simultaneous.

[Andy Holloway]

What?

[Jason Moore]

That was when I had not seen what despicable me or something.

[Andy Holloway]

Have you remedied that yet?

[Jason Moore]

I have not.

[Mike Wright]

We reacted appropriately for those who have seen.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes.

[Mike Wright]

Thank you. What I wanted to say about Brandon Cooks is the fascinating thing that Jason, you casually mentioned it. He's on a team that has a great quarterback. There is a great quarterback in Houston.

[Andy Holloway]

A lot of vacated targets.

[Mike Wright]

There's a lot of vacated targets. And there is seemingly not a pass catcher on this team that anybody wants to draft that the algebra is broken in that equation. Somebody is going to have value. We're not saying that. I'm not saying someone's going to have Hopkins value, but somebody will have to step up on this team and likely end up as a strong wide receiver, too.

[Andy Holloway]

It's so stupid because, you know, I talk about Mark Ingram always outperforming and you've got Brandon Cooks here who four of the last five years has been a top 15 wide receiver like he top 15 in fantasy four years in a row. And then last year happened and everybody's off of him and he's done it for different teams, different quarterbacks. Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Of all the. We always bring up how hard it is to change teams, and the one player that's changed teams and put up a thousand everywhere he goes has somehow been Brandon Cooks. He's my keep. I'm going to keep him. In the eighth round, I'm going to trade Josh Allen to Jason and I'm going to cut Jordan Howard because while Jordan Howard will have value maybe surpassing our expectation, it will still not be special.

[Mike Wright]

Sure.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

I do believe that Jordan Howell Howard will be sneaky and outperform his adp. But even though I have Cooks ranked very low, I think he's the player I would draft here. Just in this.

[Andy Holloway]

Where are we?

[Mike Wright]

The eighth round?

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

So I'm going to go after some upside.

[Jason Moore]

It's interesting because 8th round Brandon Cooks, I would feel pretty comfortable having him as my wide receiver, too.

[Andy Holloway]

I'll tell you, when you think about.

[Jason Moore]

Constructing a draft strategy, you would be running back loaded.

[Mike Wright]

With running backs.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, with running backs. And maybe you take that earlier tight end because you can snag a Kelsey or a Kittle and then build the running back core. And then all of a sudden you're sitting in the eighth round with Brandon Cooks as my wide receiver, too, with 150 vacated Hopkins targets. Like, there are worse bets to make.

[Andy Holloway]

I'll tell you, man, this conversation has made me question my belief in Brandon Cooks. Because you don't have to pay up. You're Talking about an 8th round option here. You don't. You know, my worry with Cooks, a lot of it is the, you know, the concussion problems. You know, you could draft a guy who. It's a real problem who's gone. But when you're drafting in the eighth round, you're really wanting to go for upside. And if I don't get Josh Allen here, I very well can pivot to another. There's, you know, so many quarterbacks that I love. If I, if I left with Stafford versus Josh Allen, I'm just as happy, if not happier. So, yeah, maybe, maybe I pivot from my Josh Allen keep. And Brandon Cook.

[Mike Wright]

Too late. You already kept in all the way.

[Jason Moore]

Unfortunately, you are locked in.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, you already.

[Mike Wright]

You already traded him.

[Andy Holloway]

That's one thing we do. I will let you trade if never update your opinions. Stay. Stay rock. Stay rock.

[Jason Moore]

Stay rock. You're not allowed to change. No. I will allow you to swap out your previous selection for Kenny Stills if you'd like. You can take Kenny Stills if you prefer.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, man. You mean money, Kenny Bills.

[Mike Wright]

Okay.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Counterfeit money.

[Andy Holloway]

Fake money.

[Jason Moore]

Fake money. You know it's fake money.

[Mike Wright]

You know how much me and Jason love Kenny Stills.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I do, I do. You can go down with that counterfeit money in your pocket. I don't need it. All right, we're going to do one more keep, trade cut, get into the mailbag, answer some questions. Second round picks Chris Godwin, Clyde Edwards Allaire, Travis Kelsey Kelsey, the consensus number one overall tight end. Second round.

[Mike Wright]

Edwards Allaire has already made it to the second.

[Jason Moore]

It's a problem.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, that's a universal cut, cut, cut. I'm guessing from the three of us and we all love Clyde Edwards Alaire, but we're not drafting him in the second round.

[Jason Moore]

No.

[Andy Holloway]

Because he's not.

[Mike Wright]

Want to.

[Andy Holloway]

He's not coming. I mean, you're obviously, if you're going to have him, you're going to need to go get him. And it looks like it's going to be in the second round, but he's not going to get off to the smoking hot start that everyone hopes. You know, just coming out week one and he has the workhorse back. That's most likely not going to happen. You know, it doesn't happen for a lot of players. You go back and look at. Sure there are a lot of rookie running backs that pop year one, but there are so many great running backs where when you go back and look at their rookie season, they were eased in. I mean, Christian McCaffrey was not a superstar in his rookie year even though he was drafted as a top 10 pick. So he's the, he's the easy cut here and that then it becomes Kelsey or Godwin. Who do you go? Because I have. Man, I just love having Kelsey.

[Jason Moore]

I just, I'll just take Kelsey. He's my key.

[Andy Holloway]

Love it.

[Jason Moore]

I know Chris Godwin's great. I don't want to take anything away from his 14 game run last year. Ended at wide receiver two. Absolute beast. 86 for 1309. I'll take Kelsey. I'll take Kelsey because I think, you know, both of these guys are being drafted at their ceiling and Kelsey has a longer run.

[Mike Wright]

I think Kelsey's ceiling is actually identical.

[Andy Holloway]

To his floor outside of injury.

[Mike Wright]

It's this, this, this plane that exists only for Travis Kelsey where it's a foot tall.

[Jason Moore]

And when you Lay down in it. You hit both at the same time.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, he just, he just resides there as the tight end one forever.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, yeah, I mean Travis Kelsey in 2016 was the tight end one. In 2017 he was the tight end one height in one. And then last year he got all the way up to number one. Okay, so he's on the best offense in my opinion in football and might be the number one target. So yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to take Kelsey in the second. I've been doing it more and more in mock drafts and in other drafts in, you know, in the aforementioned fantasy cares. I took it's tight end premium, but I took Travis Kelsey at the eighth pick in the first round. Again, that is very tight and premium league. I wouldn't do that necessarily in a, in a redraft.

[Mike Wright]

I will say that, that our producer.

[Jason Moore]

Judge Giamatti, quite the stat is, is.

[Mike Wright]

Dropping some knowledge because look, sometimes you finish as the number one and you didn't really have the boom weeks. Just a reminder, Travis Kelsey did not really boom last year. No tight end one finishes in any specific week.

[Andy Holloway]

You're saying no finishes as, you're saying no finishes as the tight end one. He was the week, almost every single week he was a tight end one. And the thing is, and he finished.

[Jason Moore]

Number two three times. He just never, somehow he never ended up with the boom number one overall week.

[Andy Holloway]

But he is a positional advantage week in and week out. Because what Travis Kelsey allows you to do is not only have him for the majority of time, you keep more fab money or you keep your waiver priority. You're not having to play the streaming game, you're not having to cut people to, you know, make more room or ever have to carry a second tight end. So there's, there's other advantages to having him on your roster. And unlike, you know, drafting the first quarterback or off the board, you're not finding a 10th round tight end regularly. You know, that year in and year out, you could just bank he's going to be great.

[Jason Moore]

That's a pretty good point about the way, you know, we talk about streaming quarterbacks and streaming tight ends, but when you're deciding when it's razor thin on a decision in the second round, you know, like this one, and you think about having to invest fab dollars and waiver money on that tight end streaming option. That's an interesting thought there where you do conserve that.

[Mike Wright]

Let me formulate a situation for you. And of course, in a real draft it may not play out perfectly like this, but let's say you take Kelsey in the second and you're able to come back and draft a wide receiver. Let's say you'd be looking at probably not Kenny Golladay. I don't think he's going to make it back to you. But you would be in adp. It would be Mike Evans, Odell Beckham, Amari Cooper would be the next kind of wide receiver tier up. Or would you prefer taking Chris Godwin on that close to the turn and then getting George Kittle on the way back?

[Andy Holloway]

If I could get Kittle, if I knew I'm going to get.

[Jason Moore]

If you can guarantee me Kittle, I'm probably cool with it.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

There's no guarantee it will work out for you just based off of gamble wise. Based off this best ball adp. That's some. That is a realistic scenario.

[Andy Holloway]

And Brooks wanted. Wants it known. He wants it officially declared that he would take Chris Godwin and would never draft the tight end that early.

[Jason Moore]

All right, it's officially known.

[Mike Wright]

I don't mind taking Kelsey there at all.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. All right. Let's do some mailbag.

[Andy Holloway]

Mailbag.

[Mike Wright]

Mailbag.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Do you feel that?

[Jason Moore]

Did I did feel the. I felt the lightning bolt. It didn't. It wasn't comfortable. I'm not gonna pretend it's not comfortable when you get struck by lightning, but you are full of hype.

[Mike Wright]

But we'll do that.

[Jason Moore]

Energy. It's electric. All right, here's a question. In a 12 team full PPR league from Kyle in Mount Vernon, Washington, he says between the two, who would you keep? Nick Chubb or Chris Godwin? Usually go with the running back, but having trouble with this one PPR League 12 team, who do you keep?

[Mike Wright]

The PPR League makes it a lot easier for me to keep Chris Godwin over Nick Chubb. Chubb is very difficult because he should be awesome one as a running back in the league.

[Andy Holloway]

He is awesome. Yeah, that's what I mean.

[Mike Wright]

Like he's a top five running back in the league talent wise. But he has. He has a little bit of a nebulous situation around him. Not that Chris Godwin doesn't with a new quarterback coming in, but full ppr. But full PPR makes it easier for me to just say, yeah, I'm going to take Chris Godwin.

[Andy Holloway]

It's funny because full PPR made it harder for me because it made me lean towards Godwin. I would have thought I would take Chubb over Godwin, but Chubb is not A guy that's going to catch a lot of passes. You've got Kareem Hunt there and Chris Godwin, you know, should be in that conversation for getting near, you know, up in that triple digit reception. So, yeah, Eileen Godwin in full ppr.

[Jason Moore]

All right, Brad. And Monterey says, fellas, I just bought the UDK and now I face a conundrum. My wife and I are in a league together. Do I mention that I have it? I think you all understand how this could be a problem.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

P.S. bonjour.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, bonjour, Brad.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, you're gonna want to, you're gonna want to lay your cards on the table here. That would be my recommendation.

[Jason Moore]

It's definitely most beneficial to us.

[Andy Holloway]

Certainly.

[Mike Wright]

You got to think about your relationship.

[Jason Moore]

That's what I mean.

[Mike Wright]

Well, actually, hold on. I guess it comes down to this for me. If you are. Is your wife an active player, is she a fantasy football veteran, then no, you do not need to share the UDK with her. If this is a situation where she's new and she's. She's checking out your hobby, then, yeah, you want her to have a good time and have success. So then you would share it. If she's a seasoned vet and is playing unprotected without the udk, then that's on her.

[Jason Moore]

We have more to lose if you keep it secret and she still whoops your butt. Right. Like we. The UDK has more to lose. And that's. I'm interested in protecting you, obviously. But I, you know, see, I feel.

[Andy Holloway]

Like what you do, if she is a vet and you're very competitive and she knows her stuff, you know, what you do is you wait until you whoop her in week one and go, I had the UDK sucker.

[Jason Moore]

That's not bad.

[Andy Holloway]

And then, yeah, there's many ways to start a marital fight, and that's just one.

[Jason Moore]

There are so many ways. Yeah, I can attest to that. Instagram question for keeper leagues, which draft picks are forfeited when selecting your keepers? It's not really one size fits all, but we can talk about it.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, a lot of leagues, you know, I would say the majority of leagues are very clearly two, two ways. You either don't give up any pick and it's just, you know, that's kind of how ours is. You keep X number of players, so it's always the best number, the best players that are kept, or you keep where they were drafted. That's most common. So if you drafted a guy in the fifth round last year, you Give up your fifth round pick this year. And usually those have an escalator where if you're going to keep them again the following year, it goes up some number of rounds.

[Jason Moore]

Can I ask you guys a question, a follow up here?

[Mike Wright]

Sure.

[Jason Moore]

Someone reached out to me and I don't know how. How it's been done in leagues that you're in. Let's say I'm trying to think of a player here. Let's say I don't know. Alexander Madison got drafted in the 10th round last year by somebody. Then he's dropped to free agency. Then somebody else picks him up.

[Mike Wright]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

Does he carry his draft capital weight in the keeper equation or the free agency weight?

[Mike Wright]

Not to me. He does. Not to me. Once someone hits the waiver wire, they lose their draft eligibility.

[Jason Moore]

That's.

[Mike Wright]

And they turn, they turn then into a free agent acquisition. And to me, that is if you're going to keep, if you're paying a draft price for free agents. I'm looking at ADP now. Someone like Alexander Madison, by the time drafts roll around, that still could be an incredible deal for you, depending on which way that Minnesota scenario goes. But I don't like players like Odell Beckham, Nick Chubb. It happens every single year. That someone goes off of the waiver wire and they turn into an elite fantasy player. And now someone gets to keep Odell Beckham for free. For free in the 14th round or whatever.

[Jason Moore]

I know you guys don't like, I at least want to reward.

[Andy Holloway]

No, because you're rewarding the draft. That's the thing is you're rewarding good drafting. The whole point to me of these keeper selections where you've got a, you know, you get to pick a guy.

[Jason Moore]

That's because you decided that. That doesn't mean it's true. You're not reward. You're rewarding the team. You're rewarding if you make a great free agent acquisition that's just as valuable as a great draft pick. But is it not?

[Andy Holloway]

No. What, What. When do you, when does this apply? This applies in the draft. This affects your draft. So to me, I feel like it's the. You're saying because we did such a bad job and nobody drafted Odell Beckham.

[Jason Moore]

Then I get you didn't do a bad job. You saw, you spent your fab on him and you made a great acquisition, you identified him and you selected him and it's a keeper league maybe of your team. I'm not saying it has to be the free agent last round pick or you suck. You find giving a two. What do you mean you suck? Well, because a lot of suck to pick them up.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, absolutely. A lot of leagues are waiver priority systems. So I was just the worst team out there. So a couple rounds, I got him for free because I got him first. I didn't, I didn't spin the most fab and see it coming.

[Jason Moore]

Even you don't understand your opinion there. You hear? That's, that's you.

[Mike Wright]

I am on the. They are at adp and then if you want to take a couple rounds off around or even to, then I am, I am okay with that. But you have to start. You have to start it at average draft.

[Andy Holloway]

Can't keep free agents. That's my position. Always will be.

[Jason Moore]

Terrible position. Anyways, look, the truth of the matter is, regardless of our opinions, leagues do it in all of these forms.

[Andy Holloway]

Yes.

[Mike Wright]

So it's up to your league. Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. So, you know, do it.

[Andy Holloway]

And they're all fun. They are all fun. Even the ones with bad rules are fun.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. All right, that is it for today's episode of the Fantasy Footballers. We appreciate you supporting the podcast the show. Head over to jointhefoot.com if you want an extra episode every single week. Otherwise we will. We'll talk to you soon. Stay safe. Football is coming. Hopefully the hype is coming.

[Mike Wright]

Yes. Yes. We'll see you next week. Goodbye, Foot Clan.

[Andy Holloway]

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy Footballers podcast. Join our fantasy football community on JoinTheFoot.com and follow us. Follow us on Twitter the FFballers.

[Mike Wright]

Remember, Foot Clan, Omaha Steaks delivers guaranteed quality and safety with every order. So send Dad a gift of food he'll love this year. Make Father's Day simple this year and send dad the gift he really wants, perfectly aged Omaha steaks. And get free shipping and free steak cut bacon with select packages. Visit omahasteaks.com type footballers in the search bar to see their variety of amazing packages.