Mid-Round Madness + Trade Telemarketer

Summary

Fantasy Footballers Podcast Summary: "Mid-Round Madness + Trade Telemarketer"

Release Date: August 1, 2019

In this engaging episode of the Fantasy Footballers Podcast, hosts Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike "The Fantasy Hitman" Wright delve deep into the strategies that can elevate your fantasy football team. The episode primarily focuses on identifying mid-round value picks and offering expert advice on executing successful trades. Below is a comprehensive breakdown of the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

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1. Introduction to Mid-Round Madness

The episode kicks off with the hosts introducing the concept of Mid-Round Madness, emphasizing the importance of targeting players in rounds four through eight who offer exceptional value relative to their Average Draft Position (ADP).

Andy Holloway sets the stage by highlighting the significance of not overthinking draft strategies:

"Don't overthink this. It's the only wingman you'll need this year." (00:03)

Jason Moore and Mike Wright reinforce the show's commitment to providing actionable insights five days a week, ensuring listeners are well-prepared for their drafts.

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2. Identifying Value Players in Mid Rounds

The trio meticulously analyzes several players who they believe are undervalued in the mid-rounds, providing detailed statistics and projections to support their recommendations.

a. Tariq Cohen (Chicago Bears, Running Back)

Mike Wright praises Tariq Cohen's versatility and usage in the Bears' offense:

"He dominated from weeks three through 15. [...] 23 years old, did everything he could do for that team." (13:36)

Cohen's ability to serve both as a runner and a receiver makes him a valuable asset, especially considering his ADP at RB28. Jason Moore emphasizes Cohen's efficiency and potential upside:

"He had four weeks where he was an RB1 [...] another three weeks as an RB2 in that span." (15:17)

The hosts discuss the Bears' offensive strategies and how Cohen's role is likely to remain pivotal, making him a solid mid-round pick with high upside.

b. Marvin Jones (Detroit Lions, Wide Receiver)

Brooks highlights Marvin Jones as a standout mid-round value:

"Last year he had the seventh highest average depth of target, 14.6 yards." (23:32)

Jones' consistent target volume and red-zone efficiency position him as a reliable WR2 with potential for explosive performances. The discussion touches on Jones' utilization in the Lions' offense and his ability to outperform his draft position.

c. Sammy Watkins (New York Jets, Wide Receiver)

Jason Moore presents Sammy Watkins as a high-reward, albeit risky, pick:

"If he has the role that he had last year, I think he's electric." (27:08)

Despite concerns about Watkins' injury history and durability, his potential to produce significant fantasy points when healthy makes him an intriguing option for savvy managers willing to take a calculated risk.

d. Latavius Murray (New Orleans Saints, Running Back)

Mike Wright advocates for Latavius Murray's value in the Saints' dynamic offense:

"If an injury happens, my goodness, how good." (32:10)

Murray's role as a versatile back with pass-catching capabilities ensures consistent usage, making him a dependable RB3/RB4 with upside in both rushing and receiving yards.

e. Cooper Kupp (Los Angeles Rams, Wide Receiver)

Brooks reviews Cooper Kupp's potential comeback following an ACL injury:

"He's a great player. And he is the primary red zone receiver for the Sean McVay Los Angeles Rams." (38:57)

Kupp's prior performances and integration into the Rams' high-powered offense suggest he could return to form, offering substantial value in the mid-rounds if he remains healthy.

f. Larry Fitzgerald vs. Christian Kirk (Arizona Cardinals, Wide Receiver)

The hosts compare veteran Larry Fitzgerald with emerging talent Christian Kirk:

Jason Moore posits:

"If you're telling me he's going to be the wide receiver 50 or 40 where he's being drafted, I don't buy it." (42:12)

While Fitzgerald is a proven asset with enduring skill, Kirk's upward trajectory and role in Arizona's offense present a compelling argument for drafting either based on team needs and risk tolerance.

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3. Trade Telemarketer: Mastering the Art of Fantasy Trades

Transitioning from draft strategies, the podcast delves into Trade Telemarketing, offering listeners tactical advice on negotiating and securing favorable trades throughout the season.

Jason Moore introduces the "overwhelm them" strategy:

"If you add in two more decent players... I'm going to throw in DeSean Jackson and Marvin Jones in addition and just kind of overwhelm them." (07:25)

This approach involves presenting multiple assets to make your trade offer irresistible, compelling the other manager to agree without scrutinizing the fairness of the deal.

Mike Wright adds nuance by suggesting the importance of balancing trade offers to benefit both teams:

"Ideally, your trade helps both teams." (10:41)

However, the hosts acknowledge that the "overwhelm them" tactic can sometimes tilt the balance in favor of the more persistent trader, emphasizing the need for managers to remain vigilant and strategic.

Brooks humorously critiques the frequency of trade offers:

"It's like telemarketing. Like, who likes a telemarketer?" (11:12)

This light-hearted exchange underscores the challenges managers face in handling constant trade solicitations and the importance of developing a resilient trade avatar.

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4. Conclusions and Final Advice

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reiterate the importance of leveraging mid-round picks to maximize team value and staying proactive with trades to navigate the dynamic fantasy landscape.

Mike Wright encourages listeners to utilize the Ultimate Draft Kit:

"Check it [e-mail] we're into August. The big draft days are coming..." (43:35)

The episode concludes with a promise of continued support and expert advice in upcoming shows, ensuring listeners are well-equipped to dominate their fantasy leagues.

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Key Takeaways:

• Mid-Round Value: Identifying versatile and consistent players like Tariq Cohen and Marvin Jones in mid-rounds can provide significant returns on draft investment.

• Trade Strategies: Employing tactics such as overwhelming trade offers while ensuring mutual benefits can enhance team performance throughout the season.

• Player Analysis: Balancing risk and reward with players like Sammy Watkins and Cooper Kupp requires careful consideration of their roles, health, and offensive schemes.

• Resource Utilization: Tools like the Ultimate Draft Kit are invaluable for staying organized and informed during drafts.

By meticulously analyzing player performances, draft positions, and trade tactics, the Fantasy Footballers provide listeners with the insights needed to make informed decisions and gain a competitive edge in their fantasy leagues.

Transcript

[Andy Holloway]

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to crush, humiliate and totally destroy your competition in your fantasy football draft. It's incredibly simple. So let me just break it down. Ultimate Draft Kit. The ultimate draft kit for the Fantasy footballers is hands down the best fantasy tool in existence. I mean, come on, it's got sleepers, it's got busts, injury updates, full projections. This thing's even got full dynasty rankings. Don't overthink this. It's the only wingman you'll need this year. Head over to ultimate draftkin.com and grab your copy right away.

[Jason Moore]

Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast coming to you from Pristine Auction.com Studios with your hosts, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore and Mike Wright.

[Mike Wright]

Welcome in. So excited to be here. August 1st, the beginning. The fantasy footballers podcast. Five days a week. It begins now.

[Jason Moore]

Yes. Yes.

[Mike Wright]

And we are.

[Brooks]

Wait a minute. Right now.

[Mike Wright]

Ready to rumble.

[Jason Moore]

Right now. Five days a week. Every day is a fantasy football day. That's because every day is a great day.

[Mike Wright]

That was Jason Moore in the building. Mike. The fantasy Hitman Wright is here. Judge Giamatti is pulling levers and twisting dials.

[Brooks]

Is that really what we call him around the office?

[Mike Wright]

Yes, it is the judge. Sometimes it's Judge Shiamati. Yes.

[Jason Moore]

Sometimes he gets a new nickname Right.

[Mike Wright]

Before we start a show for whatever reason. Now, Brooks is a. He's a thorough producer. It is beyond to his credit. If he wasn't, we would. We've never had to edit these shows. We don't mess them up. He always records them. He doesn't forget anything. We mute our phones, we go through this huge checklist, but before every show he goes through the checklist and we are very impatient. Rude.

[Jason Moore]

Super rude.

[Mike Wright]

Unkind. Distracted. Distracted. Don't permit bathroom breaks for Mr. Brooks. And so I just appreciate you withstanding us because it's going to get worse. Brooks. Because five days a week is coming. I'm ready.

[Jason Moore]

The people love him. The people love Brooks.

[Mike Wright]

When we. We're pre recording this show so we're not going to be covering the most recent news part. It's a mid round madness.

[Jason Moore]

We don't even know about the Lev Bell injury. We're unaware.

[Mike Wright]

Come on, don't do that. Don't do that.

[Jason Moore]

But what if.

[Mike Wright]

You'Re shooting your shot? Come on, don't say that. There's no left bell injury. Or is there? I don't know. We're pre recording this show because we're in la. We've got our live show in la, then we're Back in Phoenix five days a week heading into the season. This show's coming out on Thursday, August 1, which is the hall of Fame game is happening tonight. Football is going to be played. Hopefully people stay healthy, must watch television.

[Jason Moore]

It's always such good football. You really want to make sure you tune in. It's my watch the hall of Fame.

[Mike Wright]

Favorite five minutes because that's when I commit my. I commit myself to that feeling. I want that buzz, that first game.

[Brooks]

Buzz when your Dynasty roster goes 75 deep. Oh, it's a big day.

[Jason Moore]

This is for you.

[Mike Wright]

But August 22nd through the 25th, that's week three preseason. It's kind of like, you know, you get into a sweet spot of drafts at or a little bit after that. Week three, try to mitigate injury risk and all of that. Listen, stay connected to the show. You can do that a number of ways. Twitter, the FFballers. Maybe you only like Jason. You can follow him. Jason, FFL.

[Jason Moore]

I get it.

[Mike Wright]

You can follow Mike. @ffhitman, I'm Andy Holloway. Throughout the year we'll be posting lots of good information. We're on Instagram, we're on YouTube. You can watch the show and the community, the listeners, the Foot Clan. You can join. You can become a part. JoinTheFoot.com learn more about the Foot Clan. Learn more about an extra episode every week and a ton of cool perks for in season. Just bonus content extra. You know, sometimes you can't get enough fantasy football. That's why we started this show to begin with. We just wanted more. So here's the quick question of the day. Well, hold on. Yeah, I was gonna say hold on.

[Jason Moore]

Burying the lead here.

[Mike Wright]

Go ahead.

[Brooks]

Football.

[Mike Wright]

The Listener League.

[Jason Moore]

It's open.

[Mike Wright]

The Listener League. You can now enter submissions this week.

[Jason Moore]

And this week only.

[Brooks]

Yes. And this is the only time we're going to talk about it.

[Mike Wright]

This is it.

[Brooks]

This is it.

[Mike Wright]

You can for the truth ers out.

[Jason Moore]

There, if you want to participate in the listener League, here's how you do it. You get a shot. You need to submit your entry of whatever you think is going to be a fun, something special to where we say, you know what that person, that person wants to play in our league.

[Brooks]

I thought you were going to have fun.

[Jason Moore]

I love sandwiches. Send sandwiches to listener league@fantasy footballers.com so whatever submission you want to submit. Sometimes people make a video or make a song or draw a picture. Whatever, whatever you think.

[Mike Wright]

Full size. It's pretty much just impress us sculptures. Full size sculptures of me in important places. That you built over years.

[Brooks]

Here's your hot tip of trying to enter. Don't send a block of texts. Oh, look, I'll just be honest. Too long. Didn't read too many entries.

[Mike Wright]

Come in.

[Brooks]

And don't brag about your fantasy football trophy case, because we assume you're all very good at fantasy football.

[Jason Moore]

You listen to this show, you're good, and we want.

[Brooks]

It's. It's fun. It's fun to be in this league, and that's what it.

[Jason Moore]

We want to know your personality from your submission. In fact, Brooks Brooks, the producer extraordinaire, Booty Booty Bonfire, he connected to our show through that original. He was in the OG Listener league. Maybe you've heard of the biggest loser out there, Brian Ketron, who helps with some video. We've actually connected with a lot of people through the listener league. We found out that just amazing submissions fell in love and now they're part of our network.

[Mike Wright]

Now we harass them daily. Right, Listener league@fantasy footballers.com to submit your entries. We'll take them for a week, we'll go through, we'll add you, and that's it. And it will also be talking about the Megalo bowl coming up, which is a way that you can get into next year's listener league. But, Jason, it's coming, coming soon.

[Jason Moore]

All right, let's.

[Mike Wright]

All right, quick question of the day. This one comes in off of Twitter from Brian Blazek. That's a powerful last name.

[Brooks]

Brian is a superhero.

[Mike Wright]

He is. What is your go to trick for convincing somebody to accept a trade? You know, we're setting the table for our team with the draft. We're getting ready to go. And then, look, 40% of your team's probably going to be the same at the end of the year from what you drafted. Maybe less. If it's my team, it's always less. So you're going to be making transactions, waiver pickups and trades. How do you convince somebody to do a trade? What is your strategy?

[Jason Moore]

You know, we've shared this before, but I use the overwhelm them strategy. If you add in two more decent players, if you're going after a stud and you say, you know what, okay, you can have this guy and this guy, but I'm going to also give this guy this guy, you know, I'm going to throw in DeSean Jackson and Marvin Jones in addition and just kind of overwhelm them. That's the way where it's like, people have a hard time, especially if you've got Draft picks available to trade. You can add in, you know, future draft picks. And sometimes people go, I should never trade this player. You know, I should never trade my Christian McCaffrey or whatever. But they're offering so much, I feel like I have to take it. When in reality is not really that fair of a deal. When usually when you're doing like a three for one trade, it's the person getting the one that wins. Because once I trade, I'm going to pick guys up off the waiver wire. Maybe the guys you dropped. Sucker. And then, you know, and then you get the best. I am a little feisty. And then you get the best player in the deal.

[Mike Wright]

It's funny because we. I was going to say overpay because I thought when you wrote overwhelm them, you were taking the pure troll approach. You just smothering same offer over and over again till they give in.

[Jason Moore]

I don't think that's a fun.

[Mike Wright]

That's not a real.

[Jason Moore]

It's not productive.

[Mike Wright]

No. Look, the thing is, is just to add to what you're saying, a three for one trade is not a three for one trade. It is a three for three trade. You will receive one player back. You will spend two waiver pickups on additional players. You are not necessarily giving up as much as you think you are. If you can turn the dial a little bit, overwhelm them like Jason said, that's the direction I go. Throw in a little extra and play to the team strengths and weaknesses. Because if you're going to go in with an offer and they're on the fence and you can say, you know, here's Edo Smith to handcuff your. Your Devonta Freeman. That's just the perfect little ancillary piece to make a trade.

[Jason Moore]

Go through whenever you can get some for Ito. Get something.

[Brooks]

And I would say it's. It takes some time, but you just, you got to build up your trade avatar. Your. The. The confidence that people have knowing they're. They're going into a trade conversation with you and you say, this is my initial offer. You can either accept it, maybe you have a quick counter. Otherwise this trade conversation is done.

[Mike Wright]

Why, Mike, don't you trade with me? Why won't you.

[Jason Moore]

What are you talking about?

[Brooks]

We made a trade.

[Mike Wright]

Why don't you trade with me more?

[Brooks]

Well, because I know what you tried to do in trades, which is not just improve your team, it's make mine worse.

[Mike Wright]

I want the best for you. Don't you understand that?

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, sure you do. All joking aside, that is another tip, though, is to look at a team and make sure it could improve that team. Ideally, your trade helps both teams.

[Brooks]

That's not what Andy does.

[Jason Moore]

No, no. Andy just takes a shotgun approach. That's another tip. Offer 700 trades, one will get accepted.

[Brooks]

And that's what you think.

[Mike Wright]

I do. Yeah.

[Brooks]

No, that's. We know that's what you do.

[Jason Moore]

You offer 10 to one trades over everybody else.

[Brooks]

It's like telemarketing. Like, who likes a telemarketer?

[Jason Moore]

Who answers?

[Brooks]

Literally nobody. And why.

[Mike Wright]

I don't like being associated with them.

[Brooks]

Well, that's too bad because this is your trade approach. Because it just takes one. It takes one person to pick up the phone and go, well, maybe. Maybe that is interesting. Maybe the FYI is after me.

[Jason Moore]

I would love a free vacation. Thank you.

[Mike Wright]

I do go. I look for a nibble.

[Brooks]

They canceled my Social Security car.

[Mike Wright]

I'm standing on the beach of the lake with eight or nine fishing poles in my hand. I'm waiting for a nibble on one of them. So then I can start the conversation. I shotgun that starter out there, no doubt about it. And when somebody goes, well, I would never do that. But then I know I can have a deeper conversation. Sure. But I. Yeah, I don't like the analogy whatsoever. So let's get into the main event on today's show. By the way, if you want to keep up to date with the news. I know we said we recorded this a couple days earlier. Don't worry, we'll catch you up. You can follow us on Instagram, you can follow us on Twitter. We'll share some commentary. You can also grab the sleeper app and get all the latest news right to your phone. So check that out. They're great with the latest camp news, injuries, things like that.

[Jason Moore]

This is blasphemy. This is madness.

[Brooks]

He's not wrong. The. The middle rounds are a bit blasphemous this year.

[Mike Wright]

So why don't you talk about what we're doing today on the show?

[Brooks]

So mid round madness, we're taking a look at specifically rounds four through eight, seeing if there are any players in those particular rounds that are jumping out at us that look like a. A value for their ADP or. Well, this player is going at 1 wide receiver 30. I think they will at minimum finish at the wide receiver 30 and likely out produce that. So, you know, you get a return on that draft investment.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. So we're going to talk. We each picked out a couple guys that we really like between rounds four and Eight that we think are values for where they're being drafted. Maybe they're underrated for a certain reason. There's a lot of reasons why guys drop in the draft. We'll get into some of those today. You want me to kick it off?

[Brooks]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

All right. Well, I'm going to go with Tariq Cohen, running back. It's not even fair to call him a running back. Running back.

[Brooks]

You're right. Backup running back.

[Mike Wright]

Thank you, Mike. You know what? I'm fine with that. I'm fine with that. You know what he was last year, Mike? What was he? Oh, he was the backup running back.

[Brooks]

Co starting running back.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, sure he was.250 plus carries for Jordan Howard. Look, Tariq Khan's going in the late fifth round as the RB28 right now. And I want that RB2 perceptive discount on Tariq Cohen. You want to know why? Because last year he finished as the running back 13 playing the quote unquote backup running back role. You know what he isn't. He's not a prototypical running back. He lined up in the backfield 63% of his snaps last year. 20% of the time he was in the slot. That's more than any other running back in football. 13% of the time he lined up at the wideout position. He's going to be on the field. And he dominated from weeks three through 15. One bust game from Tariq Cohen in this quote unquote backup running back role because he's so electric, he's so dynamic. He had four weeks where he was an RB1 in that span, another three weeks as an RB2 in that span. 23 years old, did everything he could do for that team. And unless Matt Nagy is a certifiable nut job, he's going to use Tarik Cohen. And I think you're going to find Tariq Cohen in the category that you found Darren Sprouls in for year after year after year, which is why is Darren Sprouls being drafted at the back half of these drafts and then guess what? Productive. Productive. Productive. I just love Tariq Cohen at the draft value. Last year's RB13, draft him at RB28. Do I think it'll be RB13? Probably not. Because of his efficiency metrics. Do I think it'll be 16 to 20? Probably.

[Jason Moore]

Look, so I have not been in on Tariq Cohen this year. Tarok the Dinosaur Hunter Cohen.

[Mike Wright]

But he's not in on you with that nickname either.

[Jason Moore]

The thing is, is, I mean, last year he was the running back, 13 and half point PPR leagues. I think a lot of people are surprised to know that or remember that. They just, you know, he's, he's not viewed as a top option at all. Now if he has the role that he had last year, I think he's electric. I love the creativity from Matt Nagy. And here's my worry. The counterpoint for this is the first three weeks we talked about it before when we just went through their divisional preview. The fact that the first three weeks of the season, Jordan Howard, who you remember all the hype in the preseason where they were working on his pass catching, working on his pass catching. Then they come out and they start throwing the ball to him left, right and center. He's a pass catching back for the first few weeks, except he stinks at it. He's not good. And they completely go away and say, okay, we've got this Tariq Cohen guy. He's a great pass catcher from weeks four on. That's where you say he had one bus game and was great those first three weeks. He was the running back 47, 57 and 34 when he wasn't getting that work. So the question to me is just did they trade up to get David opportunity, David Montgomery, rookie running back for the Chicago Bears because of his all around skill set. Because they want to use that as we kind of saw to start last season and that hurts the receiving role of Tariq Cohen or did they just go and get a nice fresh young back to play that Jordan Howard role and Tariq Cohen will keep it? That's to me when I'm on the clock and I'm staring down to recohen. That's the decision I have to make. And say what I believe Tariq Cohen is or really what I believe David Montgomery is.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, I understand that he only had. Cohen was RB13 with 99 carries last year. You don't care if he gets the carries. He had 71 receptions. Correct. To me it's just, it's a big leap of excitement. People feel like they need to choose is the way the situation I'm in. You have to sit there and you have to go, boy, if I buy into Cohen. Yeah. I don't have to not buy into David Montgomery. I don't think you have to choose. Now, do I want to stack them on my own team?

[Jason Moore]

No.

[Mike Wright]

I don't want two of the same guys at the same position. But I don't think you have to choose from liking both. I like David Montgomery. I think he's going to be a monster. But if you have a brain and you play and you're a head coach in the NFL, taking one of the most effective big play guys off the field is the dumbest thing you can do. I don't think that Matt Nagy is going to go into the season and go, you know what, A rookie belongs out there instead of the guy who is more efficient doing this than anybody in football and is 23 years old, 24 years old. Just doesn't make sense to me. I think he's being devalued because of that perception. But look, if he's in the 50 catch range, you'll be really sad. You'll be disappointed. You don't have as much room for error with any of the past catching running backs, Austin Eckler, any of those guys. If they're a pass catcher, you don't have as much room for error in terms of. If they're not doing that one functional niche, you're in trouble. Right. You don't get the baseline of 15 carries a game.

[Jason Moore]

But that's why these guys struggle in the mid rounds. Obviously, if he was getting the workload everywhere, he'd be an early round.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. And he's in that. Yeah, he's in that category with, you know, some of the James White, you know, because. Yeah, here's the Drake.

[Brooks]

So last year Tariq Cohen was number six in terms of running back receptions, but he was very useful for fantasy. Next on that list, Jalen Richard.

[Mike Wright]

Yep.

[Brooks]

Were people happy they were starting Jalen Richard and Naheem Hines? Were you happy you were starting him with regularity then Theo Riddick? I mean it's.

[Mike Wright]

But I have a.

[Jason Moore]

That's. That is to defend you, Andy. That is where I think Tariq Cohen and his talent takes over. Like when you watch it is very similar to when you watch Tyreek Hill. He's just faster than everybody. Nobody can catch the dude. That's not how you feel when you watch.

[Brooks]

Sure.

[Jason Moore]

When you watched Theoretic and even using.

[Mike Wright]

The beginning of the season as a template, I don't really like that very much because, yes, Jordan Howard couldn't produce to the degree that they may have wanted him to do it. But once you figured out what you had in Tariq Cohen, you used him to great success for the duration of the season and then trade it up.

[Jason Moore]

To draft a pass catch after they.

[Mike Wright]

Let go, after they traded Jordan Howard away because they want somebody who fits the system. Not. They didn't do that to hurt Tariq Cohen.

[Jason Moore]

No. They did that to help the Bears.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, they did that to help the Bears. The Bears, that were a very, very good team last year, right? Were they not? They sure were, yeah. So I think that it's, I think it'll be interesting to see. I know from camp there's a lot of times when both these guys are on the field. David Montgomery was giving given opportunities on third down three, Cohen's in the slot. You've got out of tree. Cohen snaps 30 plus percent of the time. He doesn't even have to impede on David Montgomery being on the field. So it'll be interesting to see how they use him. I think he's a value. Mike, who's your first mid round madness candidate?

[Brooks]

Well, I'll tell you about it in just a second, Andy, but before we do that, I want to thank today's sponsor.

[Mike Wright]

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[Brooks]

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[Jason Moore]

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[Brooks]

All right, the first player I want to talk about for my Mid Round Madness highlights Marvin Jones, wide receiver from the Detroit Lions. He's going in the middle of the eighth. Wide receiver 36 and here's why I have re fallen in love with Marvin Jones and his draft value. Last year he had the seventh highest average depth of target, 14.6 yards. That was at 15.2 in 2017. So very similar last year over 900 air yards in nine games. The year before that 1600 air yards. So pacing exactly the same 110 target pace last year to one hundred and seven in 2017 he had a touchdown on every seven receptions that are sixth best in the league. When he was hurt, he was the wide receiver 26.

[Mike Wright]

While he was hurt.

[Jason Moore]

When he got hurt.

[Brooks]

When he got hurt, yes. So he played nine weeks and through that time he was the wide receiver 26. And here's the thing. Here's the difference between Marvin Jones last year and the year before. The efficiency bit him in the butt. He was outrageous two years ago when he was a wide receiver. One if I'm recalling that he finished.

[Mike Wright]

At 11 in some scoring.

[Brooks]

He was fantastic. He was a late round pick and now he's being the switch has happened. People buy into Kenny Golladay. Golladay is the number one. Oh, because he's so smooth.

[Jason Moore]

Kenny G. Those routes are unbelievable.

[Mike Wright]

Meanwhile, Marvin has no song.

[Brooks]

He doesn't deserve a song. Not yet. But he was doing almost the exact same thing last year as he did the year before. He was just missing on some of those 50, 50 balls and Matthew Stafford was apparently playing with some sort of a broken back. Last year the efficiency swung the entire opposite direction and he was still the wide receiver 26. I mean he has been used the exact same way. I think Marvin Jones will continue to be used the exact same way.

[Mike Wright]

I think the big thing is is Stafford doesn't. I don't think Stafford has a preference. Stafford doesn't go into there and say, boy, Kenny's, Kenny's my one, now Marvin's my two. I think they go in there with 1A, 1B based on game plan in any given week. So that's why I like the value. I agree with you on Marvin and.

[Brooks]

It'S not that I'm not calling Marvin Jones to repeat and turn back into the that late round wide receiver one that he was. But he's going to finish higher than wide receiver. 36.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. I mean look, 36 is madness. They're both.

[Brooks]

Thank you.

[Jason Moore]

This is madness. They're both on the Matt Patricia. Yes. And my axe. So here's the thing.

[Mike Wright]

Gimli could stop the Marvin Jones hype though. No.

[Brooks]

Because this was. He did this last year with Gimli.

[Jason Moore]

Well, but they didn't have Darrell Bevel who now is going to come in and run the ball more fairly.

[Mike Wright]

Just get me started on Darrell.

[Jason Moore]

That's the.

[Mike Wright]

Don't even get me started.

[Jason Moore]

I won't get you started on it. But that' that's the shade where you say they're not a very high passing volume team anymore. At least not expected to be. That being said, you could.

[Brooks]

He never was.

[Jason Moore]

You could very easily argue that, you know, the coverage, the number one coverage now rolls to Kenny Golladay as opposed to Marvin Jones. So when they're both back on the field instead of Marvin Jones being the one that defenses are focusing on and Kenny G being the benefit beneficiary.

[Brooks]

You're laughing because he said Beth.

[Mike Wright]

I did. Visuals, man. Visuals. Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

All right, let's talk about my guy.

[Mike Wright]

Look, Jones, last point there. I want to hear your mid round. But Jones, he made his his name in Cincinnati being the red zone efficiency guy as well. So he's had a history of more years of being hyper efficient at scoring touchdowns than not. So I don't disagree with that. In the bath, out of the bath. Doesn't matter.

[Jason Moore]

Yes.

[Brooks]

Splish splash.

[Jason Moore]

So look, we've talked about this guy in the off season because when Tyree Kill was out, I truly believed Sammy Watkins has the ability, the reptilian bounce back ability to be like a top 15 wide receiver. I feel like I made the case for that. Obviously things have changed. Tyree Kill is back. He's not being suspended and nobody now wants Sammy Watkins. He's dropping like a rock right now. He's at the top of the eighth round and still falling. This is not. He's at the 803. He's the 34th wide receiver being drafted and still people aren't touching him. Andy, are you going to touch him there?

[Mike Wright]

I wouldn't touch him anywhere.

[Jason Moore]

Exactly. Which is very good, except for fantasy football. So here's the thing. Let's. We can all agree that Sammy Watkins is a huge injury risk. I can't. Nobody, nobody in the world could argue against that, that there's not the potential for that. That's something that's baked into a little bit more with certain players, but it's still out there for everyone. Anyone can get injured, and anyone who has a long history of injury history, they do until they don't. You know, Frank Gore was such a red flag if you can remember back 70 years ago when he was a young lad and you know, every year.

[Brooks]

During the Great War.

[Jason Moore]

Yes, exactly. And nobody wanted him. And then all of a sudden he became the Ironman. So I'm putting that aside a little bit. But the real question is, is he actually good when he's on the field? That's where I think. Andy, what would you say to that? You would say, was he successful for you in fantasy, Forget the games missed. But when he was out there, did you like having him?

[Mike Wright]

I think that when he was out there on the field, sure, yeah. He gave you. He was pretty good last year, and that is true.

[Jason Moore]

He was pretty good.

[Brooks]

I was not expecting you to say that.

[Jason Moore]

No, no, no.

[Mike Wright]

I'm on record saying I just think he's not the player that people expected him to be out of college. I don't think his ceiling is the same as people would want it to be. But I agree, like when he was on the field last year for the best offense in football. Pretty productive.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, he was pretty productive. So if you take a look at his games and you just extrapolate him out 16, that doesn't work because there were two games that he basically didn't play in. They wanted to test him out and he had like, you know, we're talking almost no snaps in those games. But they go down on the game log as games played, in truth, because.

[Mike Wright]

People probably played him too.

[Jason Moore]

They might have one of those two. They might have.

[Mike Wright]

People might have played him one of those two.

[Jason Moore]

They might have. They wouldn't have played him for one of those where it was really iffy. But the point is, he had eight games where he was actually on the field for, you know, more than 20% of the snaps. And he's usually up around 70 or 80% of the snaps in those eight games, he had 51 targets for 39 receptions, 515 yards and three touchdowns. So you just double that because eight goes into 16. You're talking about 1,000 yard receiver with six touchdowns. And that would have ranked. He would have had 178 fantasy points. That would have been just ahead of Amari Cooper last year as the wide receiver. 17. That's what we saw already with Sammy Watkins in the best offense in football. And now he's an 8th round pick and dropping being the 34th wide receiver taken. You've got a lot of the offseason was talking about the rapport being built with Sammy Watkins and Pat Mahomes because Tyree Kill wasn't there and you know he's going to step it up and a lot of good fluff pieces admittedly, you know, what else are you going to say? We have nobody.

[Mike Wright]

If you're buying a house, sometimes people, they want to go with the new build, you know what I mean? It's pretty fun. It might cost you a little bit more, but you want to go with the new build because you just don't. You don't want to do the fix them up project, you don't want the contractors, you don't want the work, you don't want the headache. Watkins feels a lot like that project. Feels like that kind of a. Like. The real question I have is, look, I'm looking at Marvin Jones, Sammy Watkins, same round, three picks apart. Who do you want? You want Sammy Watkins or do you want Marvin Jones?

[Brooks]

Marvin Jones and I would take Sammy.

[Jason Moore]

So I mean it's just one of those, in those mid rounds, it's really a difference. So I was looking at like I'm usually an early running back drafter. So it's in these rounds that I'm looking for wide receivers and depending on which wide receivers I got early, maybe I want safe, maybe I want upside. I see Sammy Watkins clearly is not the safe pick, but he's the upside pick. He's the guy that you say, hey, if he ends up with a handful of. If he ends up with 10 touchdowns because Pat Mahomes slinging him out and he's done it before, all of a sudden now you do have an upper end wide receiver too for a great team.

[Mike Wright]

What happens if Travis Kelsey has problems with the ankle? Yeah, I mean what happens to Sammy Watkins?

[Jason Moore]

I think Sammy Watkins becomes a huge beneficiary because you've seen him, big guy as an efficient red zone option. And when you match that with A really great red zone quarterback that great things can happen.

[Mike Wright]

That would be something to watch for.

[Brooks]

They definitely used him differently in Kansas City than he ever had in his four previous years. He had never seen a catch percentage above 62 and a half and he was over 72% last year.

[Mike Wright]

They didn't take the deep shots with him because they had other players to do.

[Jason Moore]

They had Tyreek Hill wide open like I'm looking deep. Oh, that little guy.

[Mike Wright]

He was much more of a possession guy and that, that makes him interesting for sure. All right, so Sammy's dropped enough to where you're back. I'm back on Sammy.

[Jason Moore]

If I can get 100 plus targets from Pat Mahomes in the eighth round, I'm going to take it. That's, that's all it is.

[Mike Wright]

All right. My second candidate for mid round madness is Latavius Murray, running back for the New Orleans Saints. Currently being drafted at 7:06. That is the running back 34 off the board, fringe, RB3, RB4 category. Already went with an RB2. Might as well go with another one here with Latavia.

[Brooks]

Why not?

[Mike Wright]

Look last year, for all intents and purposes, like it was a bad year for Mark Ingram. Expectation missed the first four games. Still all but two of Mark Ingram's weeks. He was inside the top 34. Just playing the complimentary role to Alvin Kamara. Look, this team is not going to overuse Alvin Camara. They have an agenda that involves playoff games and the Super Bowl. And I think we've seen from Latavius Murray over the last several years. There is a trust around the goal line with him. He was effective in that role in Minnesota and this is the number three offense in football that he gets to go to. So I just simply think Latavius Murray without an injury to Alvin Camara. Mind you, if an injury happens, my goodness, how good. Where does Latavius Murray go in drafts today if Alvin Camara was on the shelf tomorrow? I mean, he can catch the football.

[Brooks]

Third round sort of.

[Jason Moore]

I don't think he goes that high. But I mean, because he's still, he's still going to be undervalued because people don't. There are just players you don't want. Well, I.

[Mike Wright]

Look Damian Williams though. I mean, Damian Williams, draft capital is there because he's on one of the best offenses in football. All I'm saying is if an injury happened, obviously you've got a home run. I'm not projecting that, but I can't help but think he finishes ahead of RB 34 with week to week flex appeal in an offense that's going to be this good in year to. Year to year. Sean Payton's offenses, they lead the league in rushing touchdowns. I mean, this is just their MO and it doesn't get. It's only going to get better as this team, what, 13 and three last year.

[Brooks]

Right.

[Mike Wright]

Great defense. Drew Brees is getting older and last.

[Brooks]

Year mark Ingram saw 11 goal line carries. That was. That was six most in the NFL.

[Mike Wright]

And he was missing four games.

[Brooks]

Right. And I'm not. They're not just going to move all of that over to Camara.

[Mike Wright]

No, they're not. And Latavius is known for being, you know, they give him the rock down there. So I think it's very interesting. I think that he's obviously being discounted heavily because of the fact people don't view him as the same talent as Mark Ingram. But Ingram just wasn't really as great last year as he was the year before.

[Brooks]

It's almost like he was missing something.

[Mike Wright]

Ingram?

[Brooks]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Like.

[Brooks]

Like a part of his training regiment.

[Jason Moore]

That he was pulled away from, that.

[Brooks]

He had to miss some time because of this particular training.

[Mike Wright]

Something that might enhance his performance on the field.

[Brooks]

Something like that.

[Mike Wright]

Okay. All right. So I know you guys like Latavius at that value.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Wright]

So you're not going to fight me.

[Jason Moore]

I am not going to fight you on that one. No.

[Brooks]

I will fight you if you try to tell me that. He is very good, though.

[Mike Wright]

I think Latavius Murray is fine. I think he's fine.

[Brooks]

I accept your fine.

[Mike Wright]

Here's the other thing. They were quick. They moved on him quick.

[Brooks]

They did.

[Mike Wright]

They identified him. I trust Sean Payton and they identified him quick and signed him quick. Like it wasn't.

[Jason Moore]

If you remember, Latavius Murray was saying he's only going to go to some place where he could really. He wants to be an integral part to an offense. He wants to get the ball and be utilized. That's where he was going to go. We were mocking.

[Brooks]

He was going to be the starter.

[Jason Moore]

Right. And then he goes and immediately signs with the Saints.

[Mike Wright]

It will be a one, two punch there. Yeah, that is. It's always been the case. It'll be that way again, Mike. All right, what you got?

[Brooks]

I want to talk about a player who has been the hype train through training camp, has been rolling along at a steady pace because it looks like he is actually healthy. I want to talk about wide receiver Cooper cup from the Rams. Right now he's going on Fantasy Football Calculator. As about the wide receiver, 21 and I have been very hesitant to endorse Cooper cup at his draft price. It's very. It's tough to buy a guy coming off of an ACL tear. I know that in today's age of medicine, players recover, but they don't necessarily recover right away. And this is still. You got to pay attention to Cooper Cup. If he gets a hamstring injury on the same leg where he tore the acl, then red alert, then you just erase all of this. Men in black, flash this from your memory. But he was cleared to be a full participant in training camp eight months after the ACL surgery last year when he was playing in weeks one through five, he was the wide receiver too. Only Adam Thielen, who had taken his final form and was dominating fantasy football, that was the only player slightly ahead of Cooper cup as the wide receiver to 7.8 yards after the catch. That's best of qualified wide receivers. And what about his ability to return from injury? Well, we kind of got a sneak preview of that. A little trailer. Last year when we thought Cooper cup was done for the year, he went down and it looked bad and he was gone. He missed a few games. When he came back 5 for 89 in a touchdown, it was right back into the scheme as being a heavily utilized wide receiver, a primary red zone guy. Last year, well, and I mean this only bumps guys up his total target number. Andy, I hope you're ready for this one because it was 55. He only played five full games and still had six touchdowns last season. This is, it's his third year. Like it feels to me like Cooper cup feels like a guy where you've been talking about him for a long time. This is only his third year in the league. He's on what, a top two offense in the league between.

[Mike Wright]

Do you believe that those three wide outs can all finish in the top 20?

[Brooks]

I do.

[Jason Moore]

I very much do.

[Brooks]

I very. Yes. This is, this is the Green Bay packers of old where three wide receivers can finish that high.

[Mike Wright]

Did you see Cooper Cup's quote getting back into practice?

[Brooks]

I'm awesome.

[Mike Wright]

I'm tripping over myself. I'm so juiced.

[Brooks]

Oh, careful with that. We can't talk about Mark Ingram and then say that word.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I mean, like you said, Cooper cup was the wide receiver too for that stretch. Robert woods finishes the wide receiver 10. Brandon Cooks finishes the wide receiver 13.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, it's just double edged with the limited time you had with Cooper last year. Right it's like you wouldn't have projected that over a whole season. Like he's going to be.

[Brooks]

No, no.

[Mike Wright]

You have thought he's the number two guy at the end of last year if he kept going.

[Brooks]

Not number two. No. But like top 15 is in. And the fact that spurts of being the number two guy is like in his range of outcomes because it's. It's not us projecting. Maybe he can do that. It's. No, he literally was doing that.

[Mike Wright]

His camp report changed you a lot.

[Brooks]

It did.

[Mike Wright]

Because you weren't this bullish on him. Obviously, before you knew he was back. He was not on the active pup. He's super juiced.

[Brooks]

Yes.

[Mike Wright]

As are you.

[Brooks]

I am. And he's a great player. And he is. He is the primary red zone receiver for the Sean McVay Los Angeles Rams. I'm very interested.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, no, that makes sense. Compelling.

[Jason Moore]

All right, so I brought up my risky swing for the fences mid round wide receiver. I'm going to pivot over to my very good odds to beat where he's being drafted. Safe draft pick wide receiver. And that's a legend of the game. Larry Fitzgerald. I know all the media right now is about Christian Kirk because Kyler Murray and Cliff Kingsbury, it's all about what's new, what's flashy. It's about the future in Arizona, not the past, clearly. And Larry Fitzgerald is not the future. So Christian Kirk is going way ahead of Larry Fitzgerald. And if I'm being honest and I say, hey, one of these two guys finishes the year at wide receiver 14, it's going to be Christian Kirk, not Larry. I don't think that's in his range of outcomes at 36 to be a top end wide receiver, but I also think it's not in his range of outcomes to just be a bust, not be a very productive NFL wide receiver, because he always does. The Cardinals were terrible last year. Their quarterback play was the. Was not accurate. Their quarterback play was horrific. And Larry Fitzgerald finished as the wide receiver 27. He was just outside of the wide receiver, too. In fact, if you remember starting the year with Sam Bradford and then getting acclimated to, you know, Josh Rosen, it was even worse than. They finally kind of got it going a little bit. And I mean a little bit over the, over the rest of season. But from week seven through the end of the season, Larry Fitzgerald, I know it's hard to remember because of how bad the Cardinals were. He was the wide receiver 17. He's a first ballot hall of famer for a reason and he's got a much better quarterback, a faster pace of play. So the question you have to ask yourself because he's being drafted as the wide receiver 38 this season is do you think that one year older Larry and the up and coming nature of Christian Kirk are worth more in the equation than the changeover of a fast paced pass friendly offense with an accurate quarterback? Which one's more important if they wash each other out then Larry finishes around wide receiver 27, you drafted him as the wide receiver 38. That's just a good bet, a good move. If it turns out that the more important thing is that they're scoring more touchdowns going down the field passing a lot. I think Larry Fitzgerald is the odds on favorite to lead the team in targets. They might not be the most valuable targets. I think Christian Kirk is going to be working downfield more than Larry will, but the slot is extremely, extremely important in an air raid system. And I don't think Larry has the potential to be a top 15 wide receiver. But if you're telling me he's going to be the wide receiver 50 or 40 where he's being drafted, I don't buy it. And if you watch some of the videos coming out of camp, he hadn't lost nothing. I mean he's making miraculous one handed catches on the sidelines.

[Mike Wright]

We're out here in Arizona and he, Larry just kind of gets his in the offense from a target share perspective. It's just kind of built into what he. None of his skills have degraded since he moved to the slot to necessitate anything else. And you've got unproven rookies, you've got Christian Kirk coming back from injury. I understand you're tempering this wisely. You're not saying Larry's going to go out there and be the Larry of old. But that's not, you know, you don't need him to be. When you draft him at wide receiver.

[Jason Moore]

38, he's going to outproduce where he's being drafted. And if you're in a half point or full point ppr, he's still going to soak up a lot of targets. And if, I mean, look, Kyler Murray has skyrocketed. He was undrafted for a while. Now he's in the eighth round with Larry Fitzgerald. If he's going to do what a lot of people think he's going to do, then Larry will be a beneficiary, as will Christian Kirk. But Christian Kirk is the only one whose ADP is actually going up. Larry's is not because he's old.

[Mike Wright]

If Kyler Murray, and this is speaking completely biased as a Arizona Cardinal fan, if he does what people think he's going to do. Our next year of podcasts will take place from the surface of the moon.

[Jason Moore]

That is correct, because I will be.

[Mike Wright]

Able to fly there.

[Jason Moore]

The only problem with that is I don't think it is safe to be on the surface of the moon with no pants. I think you need that suit and we won't be able to wear those pants. So there are worries that might be the end of the show.

[Mike Wright]

Listen, before we close this show, I do want to let people know, Honey.

[Brooks]

Honey, on reentry, the atmosphere, looked at the pants.

[Mike Wright]

The pants.

[Brooks]

That's what happened. They burned up.

[Mike Wright]

We have a huge update that we just released for the Ultimate Draft Kit this year. We've been so excited. Look at the last few years. The Ultimate Draft Kit, it's our baby. We work on it from the entire off season, getting this thing ready, keeping it up to date. This year we added the app. Now we've upgraded the app. We listen to your request. We added a bunch of new features. You can now use the app to actually mark players as drafted, to hide drafted players, to star and mark players. I use it with our league of record to, you know, I've got my keepers marked. I've got all the drafted keepers gone off the list. I've got my favorite players starred. It is a perfect kind of ancillary sit with you on draft day tool. And there are a ton of features that you get inside of the Ultimate Draft Kit. Now you can use it on the go with the mobile app. We're very excited about it. I encourage you to go check it [e-mail] we're into August. The big the draft days are coming and they're coming quickly. So I encourage you, check it out. And again, we got a show tomorrow, guys. Oh, man, we got a show tomorrow. We're going to be back tomorrow with more goodness. So thank you so much for tuning in for listening. We're excited for 2019. We're gonna help you win your league, I promise you that.

[Brooks]

And we'll see you tomorrow and then Monday and the next day and the next day. Goodbye.

[Jason Moore]

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy Footballers podcast. Join our fantasy football community on JoinTheFoot.com and follow us on Twitter @The FFballers. Hey, Foot Glan, don't forget Rippling is the first platform that combines all your HR and IT systems together. So when you hire someone new, they let you take care of all the HR needs including payroll, health insurance, 401k in as little as 90 seconds. Same goes for it. You can order their computer, create their accounts all in the apps you use like Gmail and slack in one unified quick onboarding flow. Get 20% off at rippling.com footballers and FootClan.

[Mike Wright]

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