Fantasy Football - The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy TEs + Wheel of Shame - Podcast for 2/5

Summary

Fantasy Footballers Podcast Summary

Episode: The TRUTH: Top 10 Fantasy TEs + Wheel of Shame

Date: February 5, 2026
Hosts: Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, Mike “The Fantasy Hitman” Wright

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Episode Overview

In this lively finale to their annual “Truth” series, the Fantasy Footballers dissect the 2025 season’s top 10 fantasy tight ends. The trio provides astute context, debates dynasty and redraft value, and delivers unmatched honesty about how wildly unpredictable—and, at times, frustrating—the tight end position has become for fantasy managers. With candor and trademark banter, they break some hard truths about the state of NFL TEs, their relevance, and the pitfalls of relying too heavily on end-of-year rankings.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Reality of the Tight End Position

• The tight end landscape is more volatile and unpredictable than any other fantasy position.
• Only the top 5-6 TEs matter; the rest are nearly “kickers in disguise” regarding week-to-week forecasting.
  • Jason (15:03): "The truth of the tight end position is... well about the first five or six tight ends, they matter, and none of the others matter and they suck."
• 64 different tight ends posted a top-12 week in 2025, confirming “tight end 1” status is mostly meaningless except for the true elite.
• The show agrees to cease using “top 12 tight end” as a marker of value; only top 6 deserves “TE1” consideration going forward.
  • Andy (18:16): “Let us all make a vow here on the show…if we decide to throw out ‘he was a top 12 tight end’, that will no longer be accepted.”

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The 2025 Tight End Landscape: Top 10 Deep Dive

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1. Trey McBride (Arizona Cardinals)

• Unanimously the elite TE1 of 2025, described as the only "standalone" difference-maker at the position.
  • Andy (19:37): "Trey McBride is a very good football player. Number one in consistency...the gap between Trey McBride and the rest—is this the most that you can remember since the great Kelsey years?"
• Historic Usage: Ran 118 more routes than any other TE, broke all-time records for routes, targets, and receptions at the position.
  • Mike (20:24): "Arizona was throwing the ball on every down...Trey McBride draft him as the number one tight end next year, but...this is going to put him into the first round and people are going to be like, 'I got to get him'."
• Outlook: Even with expected regression in passing volume and TDs, remains projected as the 2026 TE1; consensus is to target him in round 2, not round 1.

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2. Kyle Pitts (Free Agent / 2025: Atlanta Falcons)

• Ranked #2 by total points, but skewed by a record-breaking single game; plagued by inconsistency all year.
  • Jason (28:47): "[Week] 15 he had so many points that week, in fact he had the most points of any tight end in the history of fantasy football in a single week. And that really skews his season long ranking."
• Dynasty intrigue: Only 25 years old. If he joins a team with a WR2 need, could be more valuable.
  • Mike (31:13): "He is terrifying for fantasy football. Always has been, always will be."
• Will always have a “case” made for him, but viewed as fantasy fool’s gold unless situation changes dramatically.

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3. Travis Kelce (Kansas City Chiefs)

• Finished #3, but age (36) showing; only a stabilizing asset, no longer league-winning.
  • Andy (32:31): "Kelsey's 36 years old. Somehow number three...18% great games is your number three overall tight end…"
• Only 53% “good games,” TDs down, future murky.
  • Jason (33:37): "If Travis Kelce is back next year, he'll probably be around my tight end nine or ten."
• Hosts anticipate retirement but acknowledge he may eke out one more season.

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4. Dallas Goddard (Free Agent / 2025: Philadelphia Eagles)

• Career-high 11 TDs drove finish, but not repeatable.
  • "He had four more touchdowns than A.J. Brown. That's enough to make you pull your hair out like he clearly has." — Andy (38:46)
• Efficiency and usage were down; bear-trap for fantasy managers in 2026.

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5. Tyler Warren (Indianapolis Colts)

• Explosive rookie year cut short by Daniel Jones’ injury; was a difference-maker with a stable QB.
  • "From weeks 1–13...consistency score of TE4. He was a true tight end one for fantasy." — Jason (41:40)
• Dynasty value hinges on Indy’s quarterback situation; likely in competition with Loveland/Bowers for TE2 in 2026.

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6. Harold Fannin Jr. (Cleveland Browns)

• Another rookie breakout, thrived despite QB chaos.
  • "He makes people miss." — Mike (48:46)
• Only 21 years old; forced 14 missed tackles (2nd-most among TEs).
• Dynasty upside compelling but baked in with concern about Browns' overall offense.
  • "That's talking about wins and losses, not fantasy production. But wins and losses...that's correlated to your quarterback and screwing up decisions." — Jason vs Mike (49:32–49:39)

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7. Hunter Henry (New England Patriots)

• Standard “streamer” archetype: fine for bye week fill-in, limited upside.
  • "He is a very good veteran tight end for the Patriots...He will have games with touchdowns next year." — Jason (50:36)

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8. Jake Ferguson (Dallas Cowboys)

• Inconsistent, valuable only when operating as the #2 read.
  • "If he's the second option for this offense, he's awesome. If he's the third option...there's not enough to go around." — Jason (51:40)

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9. Brock Bowers (Las Vegas Raiders)

• Stellar rookie, missed five games; only healthy a handful of times, but "that dude" when on the field.
  • "If he's drafted significantly behind Trey McBride, that's the better value next year." — Jason (53:09)

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10. Other Notables

• George Kittle (San Francisco 49ers): Achilles injury clouds 2026; only worth a very late pick if healthy.
• Tucker Kraft (Green Bay Packers): Breakout year cut short by ACL. Second-most consistent TE in 2025 before injury; if healthy for camp, a strong upside swing.
  • "Tucker Kraft will be in consideration mixed in with those 2025 rookie tight ends..." — Jason (57:30)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jason, on tight end volatility:
  “There are good arguments to get rid of the tight end position. I don't like that. But tight ends still matter. Tight ends are a difference maker at the top.” (16:51)

• Mike, on the “TE1” label propaganda:
  “If you finish there, that means you had a couple spike weeks...Can we just change the verbiage of a tight end? 1 is a top 6 tight end.” (16:00–16:05)

• Andy, on the state of the position:
  “This entire discussion to me...is not to make the tight end position seem less exciting...It's just to say, let us all make a vow...that if we decide to throw out he was a top 12 tight end—that will no longer be accepted.” (18:16)

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Dynasty/Tiers Discussion

• Post-McBride, the hierarchy is “Bowers, Loveland, Warren, Fannin, Kraft” in some order. Injury and QB situations the key tiebreakers.
  • “If you told me to bet…it's Loveland for me because of stability of quarterback and head coach." — Mike (49:39)

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The Wheel of Shame (58:32)

• Andy loses the Fantasy Face Off and dons full construction gear (plastic tools included), sparking laughter.
  • “This is the dumbest thing you guys have ever done.” — Andy (59:52)
• Banter and bits abound as usual, keeping the tone fun and irreverent even when discussing a position as bleak as TE.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Tight End Truth Introduction: 14:30
• Trey McBride Deep Dive: 19:31–25:41
• Kyle Pitts Reality Check: 28:13–31:27
• Travis Kelce Aging Curve: 32:08–34:23
• Dallas Goddard: 36:48–39:19
• Tyler Warren & Rookie TEs: 40:01–43:16
• Harold Fannin Jr.: 45:32–50:11
• Rapid Fire: Henry, Ferguson, Bowers, Kittle: 50:25–54:08
• Tucker Kraft & Injury Updates: 57:05–58:26
• Wheel of Shame (Fantasy Face Off): 58:32–64:53

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Tone and Final Words

Classic Fantasy Footballers—honest, statistical, and self-effacing, with plenty of running jokes (“famously fat,” clothing bits) and digressions. The message: Roster construction at TE is about identifying the rare elite, streaming opportunistically, and not chasing last year’s fool’s gold.

• Andy, on what to do with most TEs:
  “You take the first one...then you say some stuff about the player and then we don’t talk about them again.” (50:26)

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Summary Table: 2025 Top Fantasy TEs

| Rank | Player | Memorable Notes | Timestamps | |------|-----------------------|---------------------------------------|---------------| | 1 | Trey McBride | Historic usage & target leader | 19:31–25:41 | | 2 | Kyle Pitts | Fools gold, TD skew, still young | 28:13–31:27 | | 3 | Travis Kelce | Aging, no longer elite weekly impact | 32:08–34:23 | | 4 | Dallas Goddard | Outlier TD surge, regression coming | 36:48–39:19 | | 5 | Tyler Warren | Rookie excitement, QB-dependent | 40:01–43:16 | | 6 | Harold Fannin Jr. | Dynamic rookie, Browns risk | 45:32–50:11 | | 7 | Hunter Henry | Good veteran streamer, limited upside | 50:25 | | 8 | Jake Ferguson | Only good if high in target order | 50:46 | | 9 | Brock Bowers | Rookie star, missed games, big 2026 | 52:01–53:09 | | 10 | (Others: Kittle/Kraft)| Injuries, dynasty lottery tickets | 54:08–58:26 |

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is an honest, stat-filled reality check on 2025's tight end madness. The Fantasy Footballers’ frank analysis will prep you to avoid “TE trap” picks, target true difference-makers, and maintain your sense of humor about the least predictable spot in fantasy football.

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Transcript

[Andy Holloway]

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[Jason Moore]

Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers podcast with your hosts, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore and Mike Wright.

[Andy Holloway]

Welcome in.

[Mike Wright]

It's big game time.

[Andy Holloway]

Thursday, February 5th. We are recording in the morning record release day. So we are, you know, it didn't come out at 2am or whatever it's been doing in this off season. Sorry to the 2am crowd. Yeah, they're always very happy when they get the 2am update. I don't know why they're awake, but we're here.

[Mike Wright]

So they're working security. Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. And it's quiet. And they just need a podcast to watch slash listen to. We have a great show for you today. We have our final truth episode. Talking about the top 10 tight ends. I have a couple of things I want to ask you guys about them.

[Jason Moore]

That's good.

[Andy Holloway]

We have the Fantasy Face off.

[Mike Wright]

Our last one, so that's a problem.

[Andy Holloway]

I mean, I don't always ask you a question. Sometimes you just say stuff.

[Jason Moore]

Okay.

[Andy Holloway]

We have the entire Doosers Alley crew here in the building. No one Currently in the restroom for the time being.

[Jason Moore]

Jeremy with his safety running shirt on, just in case he's running at night.

[Andy Holloway]

I did want to bring this up.

[Jason Moore]

My goodness.

[Andy Holloway]

I wanted to bring this up.

[Mike Wright]

I like it, Jer. It's good stuff.

[Andy Holloway]

When he walked in, I saw him, and what I mean is, he was a mile away.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. But sunglasses on, I hope.

[Andy Holloway]

Like, Jason, when you went from, like, fat to fit. Fat to fit.

[Jason Moore]

You can go fat to fit.

[Andy Holloway]

I was trying to decide. You are the gradient. Right. Like, you. Like, you always wore black shirts.

[Jason Moore]

Right.

[Andy Holloway]

Then you moved into, like, dark navy.

[Jason Moore]

Navies, and now you're looking some maroons.

[Andy Holloway]

But still darker hues.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, absolutely.

[Andy Holloway]

And Al is very famously a black clothing guy. Now I sounds like I'm calling.

[Jason Moore]

Well, he was fat.

[Mike Wright]

What I'm saying is I really thought you were going to say he's famously fat. I was like, oh, wow. Oh, wow.

[Andy Holloway]

I can't tell you how much I didn't mean for this to happen.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, you walked right in. I just wanted to keep going. Talk about how fat he is.

[Andy Holloway]

No, he wears. He goes from, like, all black outfits to, like, Jimmy Buffett all the time. He's always got, like, a very.

[Mike Wright]

Like, he must have a cruise plane.

[Jason Moore]

No. I can tell you why this happened.

[Mike Wright]

I do.

[Jason Moore]

Is that what it is? It started from a cruise, for sure. Because this man, no matter what, even when he was in our collective big boy days, whenever he went on a cruise, he would go and get the.

[Andy Holloway]

Wildest, brightest complicated patterns.

[Jason Moore]

Complicated patterns.

[Andy Holloway]

The most complicated.

[Jason Moore]

You have no idea how expensive. And he would wear those on the cruise ship. And I think one of the times he was on a cruise, he goes, I think I just look better in these. Which you probably do. And I'm proud of you. I like you.

[Andy Holloway]

I love it. And when he plays pickleball, he's always got really cool shirts for pickleball as well. This was all meant to be complimentary, and it really walked into a fantastically fat joke, and that's not what it was. Famously fat.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, please.

[Andy Holloway]

Not fantastically.

[Jason Moore]

No. It's.

[Andy Holloway]

I did it again.

[Jason Moore]

I did it again. You fat. Oh, man.

[Andy Holloway]

Welcome into the podcast we have. I love my producers so much. Big day on.

[Jason Moore]

I really have to go with the big day.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, come on.

[Mike Wright]

The.

[Jason Moore]

The.

[Mike Wright]

Andy has. Sometimes the words come out faster than yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Then.

[Mike Wright]

Then his brain is like, I know where exactly where this is going, but it's like the words are already out.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

And then you get it. You catch up. You're like oh, you're darn right.

[Andy Holloway]

You're darn right. Oh, but we're moving on. Well this is our last show before.

[Jason Moore]

The big game and the big game.

[Andy Holloway]

Is our our way. I mean we have them put that on to celebrate the Ultimate Draft Kit pre order day. So that'll be available ultimate draftkit.com on Sunday. If you're on the newsletter, you'll get an email about it. You can pay attention to social media. The Falcon will have stuff out there.

[Jason Moore]

You could start getting hyped on all these rookies if you get the UDK plus the Dynasty pass. The first release is on Super Bowl Sunday. So while you're waiting for football to happen, you can get in there, look at the team opportunity pages, look at the, you know, the lay of the land on the rookies, our dynasty startup rankings, all that will be available Super Bowl Sunday.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, yeah. I mean it's going to be Fun. Ultimate Draft Kit.com we will. We've done a lot of work. There's new features coming, a fully refreshed like visual on the app and yeah, it's going to be a blast. You can follow us on social media by the way on x@the ff ballers instagram.com fantasy footballers. I encourage you to do that. No quick question today but we'll jump right into the news.

[Jason Moore]

News and notes from around the league. Oh, oh no.

[Mike Wright]

I just realized, I realized what I gotta do guys.

[Andy Holloway]

The Giants, if you're watching on YouTube the Giants hired ready former Chiefs offensive coordinator.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Matt Nagy.

[Mike Wright]

The bunch of magicians back, baby. Now here, here's what's he's got a new job.

[Andy Holloway]

Mike just, I mean he's not that.

[Mike Wright]

He was gone but he's really back.

[Andy Holloway]

Mike playing some 52 card pickup here.

[Mike Wright]

In the more like maybe like a 23.

[Andy Holloway]

So here's the deal. I want to let people know what happened. We have a company, Slack Channel that shares the breaking news. We have kind of a ridiculous policy like somebody is always, we're always eager to break the news. Everyone's paying attention to the whatever's going on on social media and if you break the news and then you break the news like you double up on.

[Jason Moore]

The news, you post anything in Slack that had already been posted, you get body bag.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, that's like a shameful thing to do. Like. But what happened is David Jones the other day we got a report and Mike is, Mike is incredibly into Jackson Dart.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

A believer collecting all of his cards. My money is for good reason. Right. Like We. We have a lot of expectations. Harbaugh neighbors coming back. Scatter. Boo. Jackson Dart was already a fantasy darling during the games he played, the majority of them. And so we get this news that Cliff Kingsbury is going to be the next OC of the Giants. And Mike is. He's riding high.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, you got.

[Andy Holloway]

No way.

[Jason Moore]

You got Kyler's rookie and sophomore season. That was outstanding. With Cliff Kingsbury, the mobile quarterback. Then he goes to Jaden Daniels. Rocks the world with Jaden Daniels his rookie season. Mobile quarterback. Jackson Dart with Cliff. That is fantasy gold. That's. That's NFL success. That's great.

[Andy Holloway]

I believe Mike said, oh, baby.

[Mike Wright]

Yes. It was in all caps. So, yeah, like an oh, baby.

[Jason Moore]

But that was shared by a buffoon and was not true.

[Mike Wright]

Like, hey, if you're online and you are like, you're in sports and you're trying to get into the breaking news game, have some sources. And your sources don't just be randos on the Internet where you're like, oh, this is being reported. Well, I'm gonna get out in front of it. Like, you should have people you talk to.

[Andy Holloway]

So from a emotional perspective, Mike, Matt Nagy is the opposite of how you felt about Cliff Ginsburg.

[Mike Wright]

That dude. How these guys keep getting jobs, I have no idea.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, he's the offensive coordinator. So are you cool? Are you nerfing your Jackson Dart excitement, or are you.

[Mike Wright]

I think that he can rise above.

[Andy Holloway]

You're trusting that head coach. Coach Matt Nagy was the real problem.

[Mike Wright]

No, offensive coordinator Matt Nagy is also a problem.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, he wasn't that great. I mean, even if you look at the Patrick Mahomes days and some of the metrics of what Mahomes was already doing and then what he continued to do with Nagy, Nagy obviously, like, why.

[Mike Wright]

Is success and had not still the OC in Kansas, Right? Yeah, because they were like, his contract was up.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Why didn't they bring him back?

[Andy Holloway]

Because they had a chance to get the famous Eric B. Enemy back.

[Mike Wright]

I. I feel like that speaks loudly.

[Andy Holloway]

So. So maybe, maybe we don't have the. You know, we'll have our coaching changes episode and we'll talk about it, but maybe we don't have the excitement we thought we were going to have.

[Mike Wright]

That was a bummer.

[Andy Holloway]

The jets hired former Panthers head coach Frank Reich as their offensive coordinator.

[Jason Moore]

Future second half of the season head coach.

[Mike Wright]

Yep.

[Jason Moore]

Frank Reich.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

I mean, he was out of the NFL. He was at Stanford. He had a awful, awful year in Carolina. Now it's like for 15 minutes and 15 games.

[Mike Wright]

So last year it did not work out for Coach Glenn. I honestly, I would assume that Coach Glenn is like a smart guy. I mean, you don't, you can't at least get these opportunities if you're just a complete dumb, dumb. It didn't work out. And him being a head coach and he has to know or he has to at least have the thought process when he's hiring these guys. Like, I might get fired halfway through this year. I know how the NFL works. And when you don't have, when you have the complete lack of success that I had in my first year, if you start out that way in year two, often you see those guys fired. It's like, that's got to be a, a strange mental exercise of when you're hiring an OC like Reich who has head coaching experience like, boy, oh boy.

[Andy Holloway]

To be honest with you, there's just no forward thinking needed when you are playing for your job. You are playing for the next moment on the clock. And that's all he thinks about.

[Mike Wright]

I'm not saying avoid it. I'm saying that the thought has to have crossed his mind.

[Andy Holloway]

The Cardinals hired former jets offensive coordinator Nathaniel Hackett because we, the Cardinals would like multiple offensive coordinators of the Jets. What are we doing? You realize that's what we've done.

[Jason Moore]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

We've hired two offensive coordinators from the Jets. Nathaniel Hackett will be the offensive coordinator, but in a wink, wink kind of way because Michael Flor will call the place.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I hate this as a Cardinal.

[Andy Holloway]

This is another one. Like, you're like, they just keep getting jobs.

[Mike Wright]

Exactly.

[Andy Holloway]

Nagy.

[Jason Moore]

I mean, Hackett is. Well, if you, if you coached a Hall of Fame, a first ballot ish. Hall of Fame quarterback, you can ride that for so long.

[Andy Holloway]

I mean, there's a lot of respect for play. There's a lot of respect for coaches that we don't have respect for.

[Jason Moore]

Right. And I'm. I don't know how to put properly into words that if Aaron Rodgers were to be the Arizona Cardinals quarterback this next year.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, no.

[Jason Moore]

Because of the connection with Nathaniel Hackett.

[Andy Holloway]

Peace.

[Jason Moore]

I am out. O u T out. I will be doing a whole new search for a new team. Are you going to put out like, yeah. Oh, yeah. Wanted.

[Andy Holloway]

Are you getting a recruiter like you.

[Jason Moore]

Would for a job? I'm going to go hardcore into this. I'm going to look at the ownership structure of all the franchises because that's, that's what I want. I don't want quarterback. I Don't want head coach. I want ownership that is functional, competent, and quality.

[Andy Holloway]

Can I put this out there into the universe? If you start looking for a new team, I want these new teams, the fans of these new teams, to know one thing. Jason doesn't know how to root for you or how to root in general. So it might be a confusing situation.

[Mike Wright]

If, like, I am okay. If the job of Nathaniel Hackett is. LaFleur is like, here's the game plan. He's like, that's great, Coach. I love it.

[Andy Holloway]

And he's like, yes, man.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

He's like, oh, we want him to be a yes.

[Mike Wright]

You know what? This.

[Andy Holloway]

This.

[Mike Wright]

Hey, where we just ran these two plays. I got these. These new. These next two. And he's like, that's incredible, Coach. Get him in there.

[Andy Holloway]

You realize there were 21 offensive coordinator jobs this offseason?

[Jason Moore]

That's.

[Andy Holloway]

There are 32 teams.

[Jason Moore]

That's insane.

[Andy Holloway]

21 of them. And 17 of the 21 have been filled. The Raiders, Bears, Rams, and Seahawks. Like, obviously, the Seahawks will need to fill after Kubiak goes to become the Raiders head coach. But, Yeah, I mean, 21 of 32. It's almost like only one team wins.

[Jason Moore]

The super bowl, right? Hackett as the OC I. Obviously, we didn't like him as a head coach. There's hope that maybe he's a better OC Than a head coach. Okay. But the nice thing here is that he is not the play caller. He's not. He is hopefully just an offensive manager, assistant to the actual head coach, who is the offensive guru in Mike lafleur.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, we're going to jump right in. I think we are through the news. We've got a big game coming up. We've got some rosters. I am going to get shamed today, so we might as well get into the truth. You want answers?

[Jason Moore]

I think I'm entitled.

[Andy Holloway]

You want answers? I want the truth. You can't handle the truth. All right. We have talked about every other position we are arriving at. The truth of the tight end position. Maybe the toughest pill to swallow for some fantasy managers. The truth of the tight end position is. It's a hard truth. It really is. Jason's talked about it before. I believe a quote from Jason is, well, about the first five or six tight ends, they matter, and none of the others matter and they suck.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, they suck once you get to. I mean, I remember years ago, Trey Boo Boo. Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Trey Burton.

[Jason Moore]

Trey Burton. I couldn't even remember his name. I just remember Trey Boo Boo. Trey Burton was a my guy.

[Andy Holloway]

I glad you brought it up.

[Jason Moore]

That year when he was a my guy, he finished as the tight end seven. So you can hang your hat on.

[Andy Holloway]

That and be like maybe top seven.

[Jason Moore]

The dude sucked the whole year. He was worthless and he finishes the tight end seven. That's a relic. The whole like tight ends that finishes a tight end. 1. We do this with the quarterbacks, right? Quarterbacks. Every year there's like 40 something quarterbacks that finish a week as a tight end one. This year there were 64 tight ends that finished as tight and one on 32 teams.

[Andy Holloway]

On any given week, 64 different tight ends had a top 12 week, which meant that you had about 58 chances to be like, oh, maybe there'll be something.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, can we just change the verbiage of a tight end? One is a top six tight end.

[Andy Holloway]

That would help so much.

[Jason Moore]

It really would.

[Mike Wright]

And if you're a tight end too, that means you're at seven or lower.

[Andy Holloway]

Here's one of the things I was.

[Mike Wright]

Going to ask you. I'm with you. Like if you're, if you finish there, that means that you had a couple spike weeks.

[Jason Moore]

We should really do that. Like I don't confuse so many people. It will confuse us, but it will be more accurate.

[Andy Holloway]

Here's the thing I want to, I want to ask you your opinion on this. If there are 64 tight ends that finish inside the top 12.

[Mike Wright]

Yes, top 12. That's why.

[Andy Holloway]

And okay, so that's 24, 25 more than the quarterback position, which is already a streaming position for a lot of people. Is it fair to say that like outside of the top five or six names, this is maybe more similar to picking a kicker than anything else?

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, for sure. I mean there are good arguments that I've seen to get rid of the tight end position. I don't, I don't like that. But tight ends still matter. Tight ends are a difference maker at the top. You know, when you've got those. Trey McBride, Trey McBride and George Kittle rip.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, the injuries really derailed the position.

[Jason Moore]

There's a lot of fun draft strategy around the position. But the truth is as we joke about 64 tight ends finishing, you know, in the top 12, it is also true that so many of those, like when we talk about with the quarterback, when you finish in the top 12 at quarterback, you legit had a good week, you had a good fantasy finish. So many of these 64, like, oh, they finished tight end 10 on the week and they scored what, seven points.

[Mike Wright]

They caught a five yard touchdown and they're in the top.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. This entire discussion to me, at least personally is not to make the tight end position seem less exciting or important or fun. I think the tight end position has been incredibly fun for going on three years of rookies making breakout performances from Laporta to Bowers to this year with Loveland and Warren and Fannin. It's exciting and it's fun. It's just to say let us all make a vow here on the show when we are trying to prove our point to one another and seem right that if we decide to throw out he was a top 12 tight end.

[Mike Wright]

That will no longer be accepted.

[Andy Holloway]

It will no longer be accepted and you will have to.

[Jason Moore]

I love that.

[Mike Wright]

You know, you will be.

[Andy Holloway]

Shame you'll be called out of men.

[Jason Moore]

Of honor and we should call each other out on such nonsense.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. And we will definitely say it over here at some point in time.

[Jason Moore]

When I need probably this episode, when.

[Andy Holloway]

I need to prove something to you, probably this episode, I'm going to do it on purpose.

[Jason Moore]

See if either of you catch me.

[Mike Wright]

Okay.

[Andy Holloway]

We might be too used to it. We have seen 12 personnel sets increase over the last four seasons from 17 to 19 to 20 to 22%. Which is.

[Mike Wright]

It's how they're changing. It's how they're counteracting the new defensive schemes. I mean this is what the NFL does is someone figures something out.

[Andy Holloway]

Tip for tat.

[Mike Wright]

Everyone starts copying it because it works incredibly. And then, then the defenses have to adjust and then we'll. We'll eventually find a new meta.

[Andy Holloway]

Total fantasy points scored by the tight end position because of that in part higher than ever before in 2025. Mike, you just shared a ridiculous Trey McBride number. That's who we're going to start with today. By the way, our metrics for great games. When we look at consistency, great games are going to be 15 or more points for the tight end position. Good games, eight or more points. Jason. And then bust games fewer than five and a half points.

[Jason Moore]

Yep.

[Andy Holloway]

But we'll start with Trey McBride. Trey McBride is a very good football player.

[Mike Wright]

Yes, he is.

[Andy Holloway]

Number one. Number one in consistency. Number one in the first half, number one in the second half. The gap between Trey McBride and the rest. Is this the most that you can remember since the great Kelsey years type of situation?

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, for sure. Because in part because like the number two tight ends got injured this year. You know, you had George Kittle who was fire when he was on the field but wasn't on the field for a lot of it.

[Andy Holloway]

This.

[Jason Moore]

He lapped the competition.

[Andy Holloway]

Trey McBride. According to this is a Jared Smaller tweet. Shout out to Jared. Trey McBride ran 118 more routes than any other tight end last season. That is a bigger gap than the number two and number nine tight end.

[Mike Wright]

In routes run.

[Andy Holloway]

In routes run.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, I think the. I really wanted to make sure that that got brought up because the truth about Trey McBride is actually difficult. Because the truth is he's elite. He is possibly the best pass catching tight end in the NFL. He's one of the highest paid. He might be the highest paid still. I don't remember. And he dominated. If you had him on your team, he really carried you. But Jason, like your argument when we're talking about Michael Wilson, you have to.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

You can't just be like, oh my gosh. Tight end one one, three three. Like he's like this dude just carrying me 118 more routes. Because the Arizona Cardinals were throwing the ball on every down. They had no, no sense, no semblance of a running game. So the. Not that Trey McBride draft him as the number one tight end next year, but I bet that this is going to put him into the first round and people are going to be like, I got to get him this. It's like the new Kelsey where he outscores. Kyle just shared. He outscored the tight end too by more than five points. A game like that is a difference maker.

[Andy Holloway]

Who's worthy of the first round if you're actually going to get that.

[Mike Wright]

But will you get that level of separation again? That seems unlikely.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, double digit touchdowns, 11 touchdowns on top of the fact that you had those extra routes and targets, not not.

[Jason Moore]

Only 11 touchdowns, but if you look at the year prior in 2024 in the red zone, Trey McBride had 21 targets, 21 targets. It turned into one touchdown.

[Mike Wright]

These are Murray targets.

[Jason Moore]

They were Murray targets. But this year 33 turned into 11 touchdowns. This is like there is some meat in the middle that's going to come and we don't know who the quarterback is.

[Andy Holloway]

Higgins.

[Jason Moore]

Elijah Meat. No, It's a meat joke. Jay.

[Mike Wright]

You love it.

[Jason Moore]

I missed it. It was so good. But to just illustrate kind of the passing volume, when Jacoby Brissette came in, the defense was decimated and they threw the ball basically every play. Jacoby Brissette and his starts was on pace for 700 passing attempts. That is, that's not happening. That would be, you know, over 41 passing attempts, a Game on average. If you look at like super offensive teams, the rams this year, 35 passing attempts on average. Detroit 34, like it's going to come down. The routes run will come down, the touchdowns will come down.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, you don't break all time records. It was the most routes for a title of all time and it's all time record for targets, all time record for reception. So he broke a bunch of records, but he's really, really good.

[Jason Moore]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

And even when those numbers come down, the pure volume numbers, he still has enough to stand alone as the number one again next year. Sure. It's just your draft cost. I mean 41% great games is insane. 41% of the time, 15 or more points, 88% good games, that's insane. And it wasn't only against bad defenses. The Cardinals played all sorts of teams obviously and he had the same production against all of them. So he had, he does stand alone. Another point would be that Marvin missed a lot of time in the back half of the season.

[Mike Wright]

On top of it, a lot went right for Trey McBride who again, I can't imagine. He's not my number one tight end going into next season, but he's not a first rounder. But to draft him in the first round, so much has to go right.

[Andy Holloway]

He is. It is one of those because of what we talked about with the tight end position. It's an advantage that is marked every week between you and your opponent because it's not just the gap between him and the other tight ends. It's also just like the difference maker on a regular basis for your team to know that you have the guaranteed production coming there to take chances on higher end players at other positions. There are, I mean we've seen it. There are a lot of advantages when the Gronkowskis dominate, when the Kelsey's dominate and you've got them on your team. And at the end of the day, regardless of those numbers, when an Arizona quarterback of any kind, whether it's Malik Willis, whether it's Cousins or Rogers or Kyler's back, when they drop back to pass, the best decision that they can make is Trey McBride over Michael Wilson or Marvin Harrison Jr. But there will be more balance. There will be more balance to an offense that finally gets a running back.

[Jason Moore]

Into the backfield, it feels like in the second round is where he should belong. Whether or not, whether or not he ends there. Because even if he doesn't lap the field like this year, you know, you're not whiffing on a pick he's not going to bust. Anybody can get injured, but he's not going to. You know, running backs and wide receivers I think are easy to just have a bad year where, you know, Saquon's, you know, not great for the pick. Justin Jefferson's quarterback play is bad or whatever, but Trey McBride at that position, he doesn't even have to be as good as he is to still be as good as he was this last year to be a very good pick.

[Andy Holloway]

And I will be. It's so early. I will be so curious to see where he goes because I think questions like Jefferson versus McBride are going to be the question or neighbors and those players and I don't think very many of us are actually going to pick that wide receiver. Chance.

[Jason Moore]

No, I wouldn't.

[Andy Holloway]

I know.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, that'll be crazy. All right. He stands alone atop the tight end position.

[Jason Moore]

So we will wait to hear who number two was.

[Andy Holloway]

So we will take a break and reveal number two. I didn't realize it until just now.

[Jason Moore]

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[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. We did it guys. It's Kyle Year five Breakout It's Kyle.

[Andy Holloway]

Pittsburgh now this is what a truth.

[Mike Wright]

Year five couple week breakout tied in.

[Jason Moore]

To young stud free agent on the open market, drafted top 10 in the NFL. He's going to make finished number two.

[Andy Holloway]

And he does is why we do truth episodes because Kyle Pitts came in at number two but his consistency rank was seven and it was 11 and 10 for the first and second half. He had a really nice week.

[Jason Moore]

15 he had so many points that week, in fact he had the most points of any tight end in the history of fantasy football in a single week. And that really skews his season long ranking. I think if even even skewing his season long ranking, I think it's important to look at points per game which are equally skewed by that single game. But points per game, add back in the other guys that were injured that might not be in this list in order like Tucker Kraft, George Kittle, Brock Bowers, they were better. They just didn't finish number two because they lost games.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, Pitts, what do you think happens?

[Jason Moore]

I think he gets up, I think.

[Mike Wright]

He gets a big bag of money.

[Andy Holloway]

Does that make him a focal point on a new roster?

[Jason Moore]

Yes, probably. I don't think someone's going to bring him in and pay him a lot of money unless they're saying that they have a plan to integrate him into an offense. This is a an exceptionally weak free agent class for wide receivers. And I think if if you're a general manager and you're saying we need a wide receiver too, that's the type of team and that's what actually excites me about him going to the free agent market is the fact that he.

[Mike Wright]

Could still get franchised.

[Jason Moore]

Sure he could be franchise. He could also sign back with the Falcons. That's a team that needs a wide receiver too. If he's gone.

[Andy Holloway]

I was going to say they're a team that I can't imagine you want to put Michael Penix in a position to have less or have fewer weapons than he had last year.

[Jason Moore]

But I mean he will be an important passing option for whatever team he lands on. However, he was an important passing option on the team he was currently on and you know, he was okay at best.

[Mike Wright]

He was, he was good when Drake London was gone. So like week one he had 9.4 points. Week four was a good week. That was 15. But then the other games that are good are Drake London was out like week eight. Hey, guess who showed up again. Kyle Pitts. Then weeks 12 through 15, that was Kyle Pitts time. Now week 16 was also good against Arizona. But I mean that's Drake London's first game back after the injury. He is, he is terrifying for fantasy football.

[Andy Holloway]

Always, always has been, always will be.

[Mike Wright]

And I think that this, you can.

[Andy Holloway]

Make the argument for him. Yes, that's the problem. Kyle Pitts until he turns 30, you're going to make some argument for him.

[Mike Wright]

We can all be talked back into Kyle Pitts after this season.

[Jason Moore]

Did you know because he's only 25.

[Andy Holloway]

That'S always the reason that an 11, 11 years his senior. Travis Kelsey was number three.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, the tight end top ten is pretty weird.

[Andy Holloway]

You think people are turning the show off?

[Jason Moore]

I think they're just.

[Mike Wright]

No way, man.

[Jason Moore]

They're just waiting.

[Andy Holloway]

Quick look at this shirt.

[Jason Moore]

Avoid your eyes. Oh my goodness.

[Andy Holloway]

Hey, family show.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Come on. Don't take your clothes off, man.

[Mike Wright]

Goodness, it's just his jacket.

[Jason Moore]

I know, but felt like he was showing us his shirt. Dim shirts.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, man.

[Jason Moore]

Travis Kelsey out here in the valley playing golf right about now.

[Mike Wright]

You're going to get a resignation letter here today.

[Andy Holloway]

Travis Kelsey.

[Mike Wright]

Travis Kelsey.

[Andy Holloway]

You look good. Al, you look good. Thanks. Kelsey, how are you? Dropping weight like bitcoin's dropping value.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, that's true.

[Mike Wright]

It's good and bad.

[Andy Holloway]

Kelsey's 36 years old. Somehow number three, seventh inconsistency in the first half, 14th in the second half, eighth overall. 18% great games is your number three overall tight end which did I give those numbers for Kyle Pitts. 18% great games for Kyle Pitts. So just look at that. 44% from McBride to 18% for the next man up 53% good games for both Kelsey and Pitts. You know it was a stabilized. He was a stabilizing tight end for your team. You could put him out there and know that you're going to get production when you have 850 yards receiving and, you know, probably lower than expected numbers in terms of touchdowns. I mean, the career is winding down for Travis Kelsey. Do I think he's going to come back? I actually do. I think he'll probably be back for another year. He's got a little farve in him.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, he might. At the end of the season, the way that he was speaking about the Mahomes injury, it felt like he wasn't going to come back. Right now the vibes seem like it's certainly at least 50. 50. Do I want him to come back?

[Andy Holloway]

Do you want the year of dealing with Kelsey decision making?

[Jason Moore]

I do not want him to come back. I think that the opportunity for other pass catchers there would be great. If he walks away and I don't know, you know, he'll be playing at 36 this coming season. I still won't be confident in playing him. I know he's the tight end three, but it's very similar to Kyle Pitts. He played 17 games. You'd rather have accumulated more. I'd rather have a ton of guys than if. If Travis Kelsey is back next year, he'll probably be around my tight end nine or ten, which. Hey, that's a. That's a tight end one. Oh, hey, hey, hey.

[Andy Holloway]

Get the water bottle out. No, but what I was actually gonna say is you'd rather have the conversation about who's gonna be the next man up for Mahomes than saying.

[Jason Moore]

Exactly.

[Andy Holloway]

Than saying, where does Kelsey fit into this puzzle? That is still getting figured out.

[Mike Wright]

I want reminder. Patrick Mahomes Torres left ACL in Week 15.

[Andy Holloway]

Lindsey Vaughn wouldn't care. Well, did you see Lindsey Vaughn working out?

[Mike Wright]

Like the ruptured.

[Andy Holloway]

She ruptured her entire animaniscus. Yes, either she is.

[Mike Wright]

Tell me rupture versus tear.

[Andy Holloway]

I feel like it means there was an explosion.

[Jason Moore]

That's the only way it can mean.

[Andy Holloway]

There was some sort of explosion.

[Jason Moore]

One is like, imagine ripping, right? You rip a piece of paper. Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Now, after that piece of paper, now imagine.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, exactly.

[Andy Holloway]

That.

[Jason Moore]

That's. You blew it up. You. You destroyed it with a gust of air that just exploded that paper. That's what happened.

[Andy Holloway]

So her. Her. Her AC. Her ACL's in thousands of pieces inside me.

[Jason Moore]

Right. Tens of thousands.

[Andy Holloway]

Tens of thousands of. Thank you, Jason.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

And she's gonna play. She's gonna be in the Olympics. Which, by the way, from what I've seen from skiing, and I'm just a layman I've never really skied, but it seems your knees are involved. Yeah, I do believe they use the knees. But now if she was one of those straight down and then you go and you go off the ramp and you launch for like, ski jump. A ski jumper. If you did that, I see no ACL being needed because it's a straight line, but it seems like the other skiers really use them.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I'll bet. She's apparently them before.

[Mike Wright]

Apparently she. But she's already, like, going to give it a go.

[Andy Holloway]

Go watch the workout video. A week ago, she blew her knee up, and now she's like, it's wild. It's amazing.

[Mike Wright]

So for Travis Kelce, what I want.

[Andy Holloway]

How did we start talking about that?

[Mike Wright]

Because I was reminding people that Mahomes tore his ACL in Week 15, which timeline means being ready for Week 1 will be sketchy. Now, with the way the NFL works, I would probably expect Mahomes to be there in week one. However, if he's not, whatever week he shows up, I want it to be like, they have to hide it. It's a full secret. It's like week three. Hey, Mahomes starts and then boom.

[Andy Holloway]

Dude, they.

[Mike Wright]

Travis Kelsey just comes out the locker room with Patrick Mahomes.

[Andy Holloway]

They should draft. What is it, Dylan Raiola to be able to be like, the placeholder Mahomes for the first couple of weeks.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, the guy who emulates everything he does.

[Andy Holloway]

I think he's in college still. By the way, my rankings go right now. They go McBride, then I would go Vaughn. Then I would move to, like, Kittle or something. Dallas Goddard was number four. What is this show?

[Mike Wright]

That's what I'm saying.

[Jason Moore]

To be fair. Dallas Goddard.

[Andy Holloway]

Look at this shirt again. This is more entertaining.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, the tight ends. I mean, I'm sorry, everyone. Tight ends suck. We really should be doing this in order of, like, points per game because these tight ends had a lot of injuries this year.

[Andy Holloway]

His headshot.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, man. Dallas got her.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm. I'm feeling spicy this morning. Listen, if you told me, hey, you want to make a boring show, you'd be like, let's talk about Goddard, Kelsey and Pitts.

[Jason Moore]

Give me turkey leg. That's what. That's.

[Mike Wright]

He is a little Neanderthal. Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Wow. Nice hair.

[Andy Holloway]

This is what we're. We have to talk about a man's physical appearance to make this show compelling.

[Jason Moore]

That's what.

[Andy Holloway]

Look at this shirt.

[Jason Moore]

I mean, we can talk about his 11 touchdowns.

[Mike Wright]

This show started that way.

[Jason Moore]

Man, that is true. This Is a big show.

[Andy Holloway]

Do you care if I start blitzing these a little bit?

[Jason Moore]

Not at all.

[Andy Holloway]

Dallas Goddard was number four with a consistency of four. So you did the job, Dallas.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, he really did. He was good this season on the back of touchdowns. Eleven touchdowns, which was a career high for a player who really wasn't known as a touchdown.

[Mike Wright]

Like his career high had been five. And that was in year two, 2019. He hadn't scored pre pandemic.

[Jason Moore]

Five touchdowns since pre pandemic and then he comes out with 11. It was never expected. It took too long for fantasy managers to actually accept it. And what's ironic is his stretch of great games where it was just like touchdown. Every single week, weeks three through eight, we're like, you're not believing that we're in. And then as soon as you get in, he's back from the bi week. Sucks for a month. And then you're like, ah, we knew it. And then you bench him and then the next two weeks he's good again. It's like it was a terrible process. And going into next year, you know, he'll be playing into his 32nd year. We don't know how this offense is going to run. New offensive coordinator. I see a free agent. I am not going to Goddard a free agent. Is he?

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, yeah, he's a free agent. So Pitts and Goddard, I doubt he can. And he had four more touchdowns than A.J. brown. So that's enough to make you pull your hair out like he clearly has. And then Goddard had seven previous years of evidence based, you know, like 11 touchdowns. That's just.

[Mike Wright]

And also it was for Goddard, he had career lows in yards per route run, yards per reception, yards after catch per reception on eight contested catch opportunities. He caught zero of them. He just.

[Jason Moore]

The truth of Dallas Goddard is he got a bunch of touchdowns and if you played him, you were happy. If you didn't, you weren't in those touchdown weeks. And he's not that great and he's not going to be great for fantasy next year.

[Mike Wright]

Moving on.

[Andy Holloway]

Thank you. Yeah, he's new Kyle Rudolph season type of situation.

[Jason Moore]

Oh yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Remember old Kyle Rudolph? I was going to see what his like touchdown.

[Jason Moore]

But Kyle Rudolph was touchdowns a lot.

[Andy Holloway]

Like he never got double digits actually.

[Jason Moore]

Well, double digits versus four. I'll bet he had a lot of seasons with more than four.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. Six, seven, eight, nine. Don't. Okay, okay.

[Mike Wright]

Where's the water bottle?

[Andy Holloway]

We have a spray bottle for this reason.

[Mike Wright]

Jason hit the spray bottle.

[Jason Moore]

I took it home. So here My children are using it, getting ready in the mornings.

[Andy Holloway]

Here's a good bad one to talk about, but it's much more fun. Tyler Warren is number five, which is awesome as a rookie. Awesome probably. If Daniel Jones doesn't go down, we're.

[Jason Moore]

Talking about him as number two. With McBride, I think we're talking about.

[Andy Holloway]

Him at number three.

[Jason Moore]

You're saying next year, would you rather have McBride with his regression or.

[Andy Holloway]

I mean, not even close. McBride by a million miles.

[Jason Moore]

But my point is, as a rookie coming into his second year, if he finished the entire season as he started, we wouldn't like Loveland.

[Andy Holloway]

Right now the question is the darling.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, exactly.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

The question feels like, oh, would you rather have Loveland or Tyler Warren? That would never have. Even if Loveland did what he did, it would never have been a question if Tyler Warren kept going. It just didn't lose Daniel Jones.

[Andy Holloway]

No. Yeah. I was going to say when the Achilles tour for Daniel Jones, it took Tyler Warren's fancy production with him last five weeks of the season, he was irrelevant. Didn't help your fantasy playoffs. So you're exactly right. I mean, the perception of Warren right now is like, darn. You know what I mean? It ended that way. Now he was really good with. With Daniel Jones. He was. He was number eight in consistency. So he wasn't McBride level setting the world on fire. But you saw the ascension as a rookie and you knew where it could be headed. And we thought maybe this would be another season where another rookie tight end could get in a number one spot.

[Jason Moore]

So to give you an example of how important that injury was, we look at first half versus second half. But if we just look at the entire season because Daniel Jones didn't get injured until week 14. If you look at weeks, and that.

[Andy Holloway]

Was a long five weeks for.

[Jason Moore]

I know it was a week.

[Andy Holloway]

Was it really week 14?

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, it felt like it was earlier, but it wasn't. So week 14, he gets injured. Up until that point, weeks one through 13, Tyler Warren would have had the consistency score of tight end four. He was basically as. As he was a true tight end. One for fantasy. Very good. A difference maker. If you look at from 14 through 18, he would have had the consistency score of 53. He was, I mean 53 just absurdly irrelevant. So it was all the quarterback is.

[Andy Holloway]

Just a small correction. He tore his. He tore it in week three. 13, not 14.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, he missed his first pair was in week 13.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, you know, this is the exciting part for fantasy football is you get up and coming tight ends that are 23 years old that obviously have proven that they belong in the league and they can be a primary pass catcher. It's just going to be a quarterback issue for the Colts and Tyler Warren.

[Jason Moore]

Which is a big thing.

[Mike Wright]

They have to figure it out.

[Andy Holloway]

That's why I like Loveland more. It's just because I already know what I'm right. You see, the end of the season, I know what I'm getting with Caleb Williams and Loveland's the best pass catcher there. Now if Daniel Jones is back, I mean, where does Warren go? Three at the position four? I don't know. That's going to be something for us to figure out later this this summer.

[Mike Wright]

But we know that since the year 2000, only four rookie tight ends have caught 70 receptions or more and go for over 800 yards. It's Jeremy Shockey, Sam Laporte, Brock Bowers and Tyler Warren.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, it was. He did everything he could possibly do as a rookie to impress us. He just was a victim of some circumstance over the back half and still.

[Jason Moore]

Wasn'T the best rookie tight end.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, we'll take a break. We'll talk about another rookie. What's going on? Foot clan Running a business while that's complicated, I mean especially when you have to hire guys like Al Borland and Papa Josh. But there's probably about 55 programs that you need. Also expensive. And since they come from different companies, they don't always play nice with one another. What can you do, right? Odoo. That is what Odoo has all the business software that owners need. We're talking sales, CRM, manufacturing websites, literally every kind of software and it's all on one platform. So it all works together seamlessly. I know firsthand what it's like to have everything all in one and you're not bouncing between different applications. It's quality software you're not sacrificing and it's just a better experience than that hodgepodge of different programs that you're using right now. And what is the most amazing part of Odoo? It's that you're not paying that premium you'd expect to be paying for it. Why spend more on software programs that are less efficient when Odoo simple software platform can handle everything for a fraction of the price? Discover how Odoo can take your business to the next level by visiting odoo.com that's o d o o.com the fantasy.

[Jason Moore]

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[Andy Holloway]

From Tyler Warren to number six on the list, Harold Fannin Jr. Just 21.

[Jason Moore]

Years old, the best rookie tight end.

[Andy Holloway]

Consistency rank of 6. Consistency rank of 5. In the second half, Fannin was 56% good games, 19% great. It was. It was done in spite of quarterback carousel situation. Right. I mean we just kind of said Warren had to deal with the change but Fannin had to deal with bad. Bad.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

I mean Pro Bowler, two Pro bowl.

[Jason Moore]

Two Pro bowl cornerbacks. That's right.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, because Flacco.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh yeah, right.

[Mike Wright]

Flacco started so.

[Jason Moore]

He also had to. He also had to.

[Andy Holloway]

Flacco started so.

[Mike Wright]

So this says it all. Two Pro Bowl QBs for Harold Fannin.

[Jason Moore]

Jr. Look, Harold Fannin Jr. Comes in.

[Mike Wright]

This is what you have done with the Pro Bowl. This is what. This is how you have shifted the conversation. Idiocy.

[Andy Holloway]

I'd be more entertained watching a computer simulation of the best players playing tackle football than I would be with our current Pro Bowl.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

Oh like if you just put like a Madden.

[Andy Holloway]

If you just did a. Yes, like a digital on screen simulation that I could bet on versus the flag football.

[Jason Moore]

Oh man.

[Andy Holloway]

With should do her and yeah. Random guys. I mean so throwing it out there. We have the technology. AI could do that in 15 minutes.

[Jason Moore]

Harold Fannin, 21 and a half years old, was drafted in the third round. Wasn't one of these top 10 picks like Loveland, like Warren and Mixins and unlike. Oh that's good. Shout out to the Spitballers on Monday. Make sure you tune in for that one. We have a great draft of ice cream. But he got in with bad quarterback play. He also was the backup tight end to start the year. David Ajoku was there and David Joku got injured in week 14. Missed weeks 15 through 18 is A. I think he's an avoided contract year for this upcoming season. So coming to next year, you're trying to build this franchise. You're trying to build the Browns. What pieces do I have? Oh, I got Miles Garrett.

[Mike Wright]

Great.

[Jason Moore]

I don't have a quarterback. I have Harold Fannin. This is a key piece. What are you telling me? You're like okay, we were. They'll say to themselves okay we're paying a lot for Jerry Judy. That's what they're going to say. They're not going to say, oh good, we could build around Jerry Judy. They're going to build around Harold Fannin. The dude is awesome.

[Andy Holloway]

No, Fannin's incredible. Now you're going to have question marks around. Is it Deshaun Watson at some point? Is it Chador Sanders? You got a new head coach in Todd Monkin. Who we'll see. It's been a long time waiting for him to be a head coach and he finally got the big job. Everyone wants the Browns job. But Fannin was incredible. Fannin is an amazing athlete. He's versatile. He can catch short area targets. He can go compete for contested catches.

[Mike Wright]

He makes people miss.

[Jason Moore]

He is, he is like a 21 year old special. He can outrun guys duck footed. I mean that's incredible.

[Mike Wright]

14 forced missed tackles. That was second most at the position.

[Andy Holloway]

So yeah, Fannin is going to be a really interesting. This is where the impossible to answer Loveland, Fanon, Warren, Dynasty question is it is impossible.

[Jason Moore]

That's why if I had a Warren or a Loveland they are way more valued than Fannin.

[Andy Holloway]

Where you would go get Fan and plus exactly right. That's not a bad one.

[Jason Moore]

I would go get Fanon and a pick.

[Andy Holloway]

I don't have a problem with that.

[Jason Moore]

Actually I think Fanon is as good or to me he is in the exact same tier as those other two guys as players. That's how I see it.

[Mike Wright]

Which that's fine.

[Andy Holloway]

If you, if you told me to.

[Mike Wright]

Bet you were you were the one on this show. It's like it's the Cleveland Browns. Yeah, it's the Cleveland Browns. The Cleveland Browns will always browns.

[Jason Moore]

That's 100%. That's talking about wins and losses. That's not talking about whether or not they'll have fantasy production from a player.

[Mike Wright]

But wins and losses, I mean it's all. It's correlated to your quarterback and screwing up decisions. That one, the three of those guys, that one's it's easily loved one for me because of stability of quarterback and head coach.

[Andy Holloway]

And you don't have to to Mike's point you don't have to watch the Browns if you don't draft any of their players.

[Jason Moore]

That is the hardest part of having.

[Mike Wright]

Feel like with Fannin who is great. He will. He'll be a top. He'll be. He'll be a tight end one. We don't even go that way.

[Andy Holloway]

We don't even get to talk about the real number two tight end yet for a while.

[Mike Wright]

Right.

[Andy Holloway]

That's the season we're having.

[Mike Wright]

Well, I think with Harold Fan there's going to be a lot of chasing the dragon as the Cleveland Browns continue to scroll.

[Andy Holloway]

I'll chase the dragon. We can blitz at the right point.

[Jason Moore]

We can blitz a lot of these guys that are going to be pretty irrelevant for the draft next year.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm going to say the name.

[Jason Moore]

Okay.

[Andy Holloway]

Then you say some stuff about the player and then we don't talk about them again.

[Jason Moore]

That sounds good. I'll take the first one.

[Andy Holloway]

You take the first one. Hunter Henry, seventh overall. Consistency of 14. Go.

[Jason Moore]

He is a very good veteran tight end for the Patriots for fantasy football. He will have games with touchdowns next year.

[Andy Holloway]

Mike, number eight is Jake Ferguson. Consistency of nine really dropped off in the second half. Sixteenth inconsistency in the second half of the season including a murderous playoff run for fantasy managers. 12% great, 53% good, 29% bust. Go.

[Mike Wright]

I will say Ferguson recently signed a four year extension and it all comes down to what happens with George Pickens. If there is a. If it's CD Lamb and George Pickens on this roster, then Ferguson is going to be the guy that you're just waiting on. Like he's like an insurance running back or insurance tight end I guess of if one of those guys misses time like week two through seven tight end. 4, 4, 5, 2, 10, 4. And then CD Lamb comes back.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I was going to say CD Lamb was gone for weeks 3, 4, 5, 6. So yeah, if he's the second option for this offense, he's awesome. If he's the third option for this.

[Mike Wright]

Offense, there's between Lamb and Pickens there's not enough to go around but like George Pickens will likely be franchise but will he be franchise traded or. So there's a lot to play out for that.

[Andy Holloway]

Brock Bowers comes in at 9. Consistency of 5. We know who Brock Bowers is. He's a dude that missed a ton of games this year.

[Jason Moore]

Got banged up.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, he missed five total games. Three at a crucial part of the beginning of the season. Then he was pretty dominant then they said we would like the first pick and so he didn't play anymore.

[Jason Moore]

Remember he got banged up early before. Before he left.

[Mike Wright]

It was in week one.

[Jason Moore]

Yes. So week One, he was the tight end. One, he was the dog. He was Brock Bowers. We're like, oh, man, everyone who picked.

[Andy Holloway]

Him first, they won that game. Beats New England, by the way. Beat New England and they have the number one pick.

[Jason Moore]

That is super funny. Well, that's because they had a healthy Brock Bowers in part. And again, 15.8 fantasy points and half PPR was awesome. Got hurt the next three weeks. Played through it poorly, kind of stunk. Wasn't even a tight end one. And we know how easy it is to be a tight end one. And I'm talking about he's got to be top six. I'm actually talking tight end two. Then he wasn't even a tight end two for those next three weeks. Then they rest him. They keep him out until the bye week comes back and he's that dude again. So to me, Brock Bowers, if he's drafted significantly behind Trey McBride, that's the better value next year.

[Mike Wright]

It'll be significant.

[Jason Moore]

It'll be around, if I can say, because when you're at the top of.

[Andy Holloway]

The draft, it'll be Mendoza and obviously in Arizona, we don't know. So, yeah. So if it's McBride, Bowers, which I think we would all agree it is at the top of the tight end list, regardless of round, just in order, just right now, here in the middle of or the beginning of February, are the other three rookie guys from this year. The next three names.

[Jason Moore]

They very well might be.

[Andy Holloway]

Is it whatever order of Loveland.

[Mike Wright]

I would. I would say it's love.

[Jason Moore]

And Warren.

[Mike Wright]

It's probably love when Warren. The Warren quarterback situation, it's a. It's a big problem. But then it's like, I mean, beyond those, if Tucker Kraft.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, Tucker Kraft is ready because his.

[Mike Wright]

ACL tear was in week nine. Yeah, that's a big one. It's possible that he's back. If Tucker Kraft is like, the news is all, oh, no, he's in training camp. He's. He will be good to go. I would take Kraft before I take fein.

[Andy Holloway]

Kittle was 13. I'm just going to talk about a couple other names. Kittle was 13. Third inconsistency, second in the second half.

[Mike Wright]

So good.

[Andy Holloway]

But now it's an Achilles injury and despite being under contract for four more years, you're going to see next year mostly deleted. And then you may see another year like Kittle might be able to come back and contribute in a meaningful way for the 49ers. The question will be how they've built that team by the time he's back. Like part of his greatness this year was an absence of other pass catching options. Pierce all banged up all year long. You didn't have iuk. So you compound that with the injury and you say, hey, this team's going to have to add an offensive group of guys for two years maybe before Kittle's a contributor.

[Jason Moore]

Man, this sucks.

[Andy Holloway]

So it just sucks.

[Mike Wright]

Does Jordan.

[Jason Moore]

I don't think anyone is more beloved than George Kittle. Just as he, he's like we always get asked the question and I don't think we ever answer it properly of like, who would you just want to hang out with from the NFL?

[Mike Wright]

It should always be George Kittle.

[Jason Moore]

Like should be awesome.

[Mike Wright]

You could just be able to shoot from the hip that answer.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, exactly.

[Mike Wright]

Kittle who? Yeah, I mean he's on, he's selling pizzas, riding on a deer.

[Andy Holloway]

He's golfing with that torn Achilles.

[Jason Moore]

If he, if he.

[Andy Holloway]

Did you see this?

[Mike Wright]

I did not.

[Andy Holloway]

He's on, he's on a golf course and he's got one of the clubs that has the auto firing piston inside the end of it and he's out there.

[Jason Moore]

I mean if, if he's back, let's say week one. Let's say they, they get him back week one.

[Andy Holloway]

Wait, what?

[Jason Moore]

Let's say if he's ready by. If, if he who? George Kittle. He rehabs hard in the off season program.

[Andy Holloway]

This week one or the next year?

[Jason Moore]

Next year? Well, this coming year.

[Mike Wright]

2026.

[Jason Moore]

2026. If they say we think he'll make it because he's got that dog in him. Are you willing to draft him? And at what draft cost?

[Andy Holloway]

Late, late, late, Late round late.

[Mike Wright]

Sure.

[Andy Holloway]

But I, man, that's a.

[Mike Wright]

But I'll probably be drafting two tight ends. Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

So I feel like that is fairytale level.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, it is.

[Andy Holloway]

Tucker Kraft, let's not forget Tucker Kraft. This is part of the truth episode. He was the number two most consistent tight end in fantasy football this year. It was a full on breakout campaign. You know, you talk about the packers, all the injuries they had. It's. It's easily arguable that they lost their best offensive weapon and their best defensive player and still, you know, made the playoffs despite missing those guys. Everybody has injuries. I'm not, you know, saying anything. You don't know. It's just Kraft was the difference maker for the offense. He's what made Jordan Love more viable on a week to week basis. You needed him in the mix. He had his breakout 32 point week eight and then he goes down the next week. So right after the kind of crown gets put on his head as the next great tight end, the ACL gets torn in the world. It was like a sc. It was to me like the score. It's an emotionally devastating one because he's fun.

[Jason Moore]

George Kittle was the tight end 3 on a points per game at 12.1 fantasy points per game with just espouse how awesome he was. 12.7 points per game. For Tucker Kraft he was even better. And this is an injury that more players come back from versus the Achilles. For Kittle. He has more time. It happened earlier in the season. Tucker Kraft will be in consideration mixed in with those 20, 25 rookie tight ends and the.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, you'll just have to decide about the ACL and what progress looks like.

[Mike Wright]

And the packers have to make themselves a decision as well. Romeo Dobbs, who opinions on him are all over. But like, he's solid. We'll just say Romeo Dobbs is a solid player.

[Jason Moore]

He's an NFL wide receiver.

[Mike Wright]

Romeo Dobbs is.

[Andy Holloway]

He plays in the National Football League.

[Mike Wright]

Is solid and with a giant helmet.

[Jason Moore]

He's not liquid.

[Mike Wright]

Thank you. Yeah, but he's a free agent. So it's like the packers will have to decide do they compete money wise to bring him back or do they like, where else do they cover? That was targets.

[Andy Holloway]

Was that for.

[Mike Wright]

That was really late.

[Andy Holloway]

Dobbs is just. He's just bad enough.

[Jason Moore]

You can't. You can't do that.

[Andy Holloway]

He's just good enough to want to bring him back to Green Bay and he's just bad enough to not get a big enough contract elsewhere. He's the perfect guy to resign.

[Mike Wright]

Romeo Dobbs is. He'll get money this year.

[Andy Holloway]

We got to do this.

[Jason Moore]

Fantasy face off presented by prize picks.

[Andy Holloway]

I don't like how eager the falcon is over there to get me. Whatever Shame. I'm.

[Mike Wright]

He's just doing his job.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

What wheel of shame?

[Mike Wright]

We're spinning.

[Andy Holloway]

Okay. It's already spinning. It's. Oh, it's spinning. It's cheese head. It's Bob the loser. Bob the loser.

[Jason Moore]

Bob the loser. Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

He's not a builder.

[Jason Moore]

He's a loser. Bob the builder.

[Andy Holloway]

One of Jeremy's shirts.

[Jason Moore]

Wow. That is the exact same color. You should go to the doosers cam on. That is literally. Did you do this on purpose, Jeremy? I did find it ironic as he.

[Andy Holloway]

Talked about the color of my shirt. I suck at fantasy. Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, it says I suck at fantasy.

[Andy Holloway]

It's Facts.

[Jason Moore]

It is a fact.

[Mike Wright]

Look at this loser.

[Andy Holloway]

Dude, I could get some work done. Those goggles on before the hard hat. Okay, you're right.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Order of operations matter, process over results. Okay, Looking good. Don't forget your toolbox. You're going.

[Mike Wright]

You got to build.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, you got.

[Andy Holloway]

Do I need to go inside the toolbox?

[Mike Wright]

I would if I were you. I don't know what's in there, though.

[Jason Moore]

Probably tools. Plastic tools.

[Andy Holloway]

This is the dumbest thing you guys have ever done.

[Jason Moore]

Just a little, baby.

[Andy Holloway]

All right.

[Jason Moore]

Why don't you build a lineup for us?

[Andy Holloway]

Let's drill down here. My quarterback is going to be Drake May. And I'm going to use my green Goblin. I'm going more than 0.5 passing touchdowns.

[Jason Moore]

Okay. I'm going Drake May. I've got two lineups. One is more than 0.5 passing yards.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Jason Moore]

People need to know that that's out there. We're not doing that. My actual Drake May is less than 220 and a half passing yards. I know he was able to get into full practice. He's saying the shoulder is not an issue, but I think this could be a defensive game. However, on the platform right now on prize picks, you can basically get. Oh, no, there's a. There's a headlight. What do you.

[Mike Wright]

You got a work light on that hat?

[Jason Moore]

There is.

[Mike Wright]

I got to put my hat down.

[Jason Moore]

There is a gimme for the super bowl of Drake May over half a passing yard. Yeah. Basically get a little promo.

[Mike Wright]

I'm looking through my lineup, guys realizing.

[Jason Moore]

You don't have a quarterback. I don't have.

[Mike Wright]

No. I don't have a green Goblin.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, fantastic. Whoops.

[Mike Wright]

Riding a little dirty here. Quarterback though. I do have Sam Darnold. His projections. 229 and a half passing yards. I'm going more Sammy D. We're going.

[Jason Moore]

To believe super bowl mvp.

[Mike Wright]

I mean, if he hits his projection.

[Jason Moore]

Unless.

[Mike Wright]

Unless, you know, Ken walker rips off 250 yard tutties.

[Andy Holloway]

Is it back to me?

[Mike Wright]

Yes, sir.

[Andy Holloway]

Let's keep building this lineup. You heard me talk about it last week. I. The Christian Gonzalez JSN matchup is going to be one of the more interesting ones for the Super Bowl. I'm going to take Cooper cup making his contributions as I blast Mike with my work light here. 32.5 receiving yards. I'm taking the more you turn this off. My.

[Jason Moore]

You're doing that as essentially you think JSN will have a difficult time with Christian.

[Andy Holloway]

I just think that there will be opportunities for other receivers. And cup has been stepping up in recent weeks anyways. So 32 and a half seems like something you can get.

[Jason Moore]

Well, we had a similar thought process. I have JSN 91 1/2 receiving yards. I'm going less with the Christian Gonzalez coverage.

[Mike Wright]

I have Mr. Stefan Diggs. His projection is at four and a half. Realizing I should have taken the Green Goblin at three and a half. But here we are. It's too late. Four and a half receptions. I'm taking the more for. Who is Stefan Diggs.

[Andy Holloway]

All right, I'm going to go. You know, you're measuring A.J. barner, 22. Measure twice, cut once receiving yards. I'm taking less. A.J. barnard is not going to be.

[Mike Wright]

Do your measuring tape. Got you the.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, got me the answer. Okay, let me just wrap this up.

[Jason Moore]

Nice. I'm going to go with it. Doesn't even have a crane. That's funny.

[Andy Holloway]

My.

[Jason Moore]

Wait, we went to tight end. My tight end is Hunter Henry.

[Prize Picks Advertiser]

Oh.

[Jason Moore]

His projection is five receiving targets.

[Mike Wright]

Oh.

[Jason Moore]

And I'm going less than that.

[Mike Wright]

All right.

[Jason Moore]

I think that that line was interesting that it wasn't a half. I don't see him getting to six. He hasn't got the six in a long time.

[Mike Wright]

I went with Hunter Henry. But we're going Band Aid. Seven and a half yards on first reception. We're going less. Whoa, whoa. Utility knife and a saw.

[Andy Holloway]

All right.

[Jason Moore]

Saw out your running back. I don't. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

The people hated that one.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I did too. You guys hate that guy.

[Andy Holloway]

You guys know how I'm gonna roll. You probably see what I saw.

[Mike Wright]

What?

[Andy Holloway]

Ramon Dre Stevenson. 50 and a half rushing yards. I'm taking the more. Oh, he is also for those out there that care. He would be my first touchdown.

[Jason Moore]

Okay. I will say you forgot.

[Mike Wright]

What?

[Jason Moore]

You forgot what year it is because Ramon. Ramondre is not Mike's dude.

[Mike Wright]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

Travion is Mike's dude. And the other Mike's dude to finish out Mike's year at the super bowl is Ken Bone Walker, who is in my lineup. I have him receiving targets three and a half more than that. With Sharbone out, he's going to have.

[Mike Wright]

At least four targets as Andy goes through the construction. Kenneth Walker. His projections at 74 and a half rushing yards. I thought that was. That's a little bit too high for how much.

[Jason Moore]

Wait, are you betting against yourself?

[Mike Wright]

I'm just in rushing yards.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, my goodness.

[Mike Wright]

Just in rushing. Less than 74 and a half rushing.

[Andy Holloway]

I feel like you guys are getting punished by me. All right. It's going to be fun this weekend. That was Fantasy Face off presented by Price Picks. Check out special Max discounts for the big game like drake may needing one passing yard to win. Use code footballers and get $50. I think you can do it in lineups when you play. $5 Al we are twins. That's right, dressing alike today and enjoy the weekend everybody. Have a good time.

[Mike Wright]

Enjoy the game, stay safe. Ultimate Draft Get Sunday Goodbye.

[Jason Moore]

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy Footballers Podcast. Join our fantasy football community on jointhefoot.com and follow us on Twitter the FFballers.

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