Tier Drop Candidates + 2018 Rookie Review: QB & WR

Summary

Detailed Summary of "Tier Drop Candidates + 2018 Rookie Review: QB & WR" Podcast Episode

Podcast Information:

• Title: Fantasy Footballers - Fantasy Football Podcast
• Episode: Tier Drop Candidates + 2018 Rookie Review: QB & WR
• Release Date: February 12, 2019
• Hosts: Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike "The Fantasy Hitman" Wright

In this episode, the Fantasy Footballers delve deep into tier drop candidates and provide a comprehensive review of the 2018 rookie class, focusing on quarterbacks (QB) and wide receivers (WR). The discussion is enriched with expert analysis, insightful opinions, and valuable advice for fantasy football enthusiasts aiming to optimize their rosters.

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1. Tier Drop Candidates

The hosts begin by addressing the challenging question of identifying top-tier players who are most likely to fall out of their current tiers. This segment is crucial for fantasy managers looking to make informed draft decisions.

• Antonio Brown's Potential Tier Drop:

  • Andy Holloway (05:40): "Antonio Brown has been the number one in his tier for several years now. This might be the first year he's not the first wide receiver taken off the board."
  • The trio discusses Brown's instability and potential team changes that could influence his performance and fantasy value.

• James Conner's Projected Tier Decline:

  • Jason Moore (05:55): Highlights James Conner's inconsistent performance, suggesting he might drop to tier two.
  • Mike Wright (07:29): Agrees, noting Conner's fluctuating rushing yards and touchdowns.

• Matt Ryan's Expected Tier Drop:

  • Mike Wright (09:13): Predicts Matt Ryan, the number two quarterback of 2018, will fall two tiers.
  • Jason Moore (09:26): Reinforces the sentiment, citing Ryan's diminishing draft stock.

• Alvin Kamara and Adam Thielen:

  • Both players are discussed as potential candidates to fall out of their respective tiers due to performance inconsistencies in the latter half of the season.

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2. News and Updates

Significant offseason moves and declarations are covered, providing context for upcoming fantasy seasons.

• Kareem Hunt's Signing with the Cleveland Browns:

  • Jason Moore (11:21): "The Cleveland Browns have signed Kareem Hunt, former Chiefs RB, which raises concerns about Nick Chubb's role."
  • Andy Holloway (12:58): Discusses Hunt's suspension and implies that Chubb remains a valuable asset despite Hunt's acquisition.

• Kyler Murray Declares for the NFL Draft:

  • Jason Moore (15:42): Announces Kyler Murray's decision to enter the draft, highlighting his dual-threat capability.
  • The hosts contemplate Murray's potential impact on fantasy landscapes, stressing his athleticism and rushing prowess.

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3. Rookie Quarterback Review

A detailed analysis of the rookie quarterbacks' performances and future prospects in fantasy football.

• Baker Mayfield:

  • Jason Moore (20:10): Notes Mayfield's record-breaking rookie passing touchdowns but questions his consistency.
  • Andy Holloway (21:09): Optimistic about Mayfield's future, suggesting he could rise to a top-tier quarterback with the right development.

• Sam Darnold:

  • Jason Moore (26:46): Labels Darnold as a fantasy bust, citing his inconsistency and underwhelming performance.
  • Andy Holloway (27:38): Agrees, emphasizing Darnold's inability to perform in high-pressure situations.

• Josh Allen:

  • Jason Moore (30:07): Praises Allen's dual-threat ability, likening him to Cam Newton for fantasy purposes.
  • Andy Holloway (32:35): Excited about Allen's potential to sustain rushing numbers, making him a valuable fantasy asset.

• Josh Rosen:

  • Jason Moore (34:49): Criticizes Rosen's performance, calling him a fantasy bust with no top-tier finishes.
  • Andy Holloway (37:02): Echoes the disappointment, suggesting the Cardinals need to move on from Rosen.

• Lamar Jackson:

  • Jason Moore (36:57): Highlights Jackson's consistency and dual-threat capabilities, positioning him as a strong fantasy quarterback.
  • Mike Wright (37:08): Sees Jackson as a potential top-tier fantasy QB, contingent on his continued rushing success.

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4. Rookie Wide Receiver Review

The discussion shifts to evaluating the rookie wide receivers' performances and their implications for future fantasy seasons.

• D.J. Moore:

  • Jason Moore (40:24): Acknowledges Moore's impressive rookie season but notes his limited upside due to quarterback uncertainties.
  • Andy Holloway (42:07): Enthusiastic about Moore's potential, emphasizing his athleticism and opportunity to become a top target.

• Calvin Ridley:

  • Jason Moore (42:25): Points out Ridley's dependency on Julio Jones, limiting his fantasy value.
  • Andy Holloway (43:07): Predicts Ridley will remain a mid-tier receiver unless Julio Jones departs.

• Cortland Sutton:

  • Jason Moore (45:45): Calls Sutton's season "disappointing" despite decent yardage, citing inconsistent quarterback play.
  • Andy Holloway (47:01): Doubts Sutton's ability to become a superstar, suggesting limited upside.

• Anthony Miller & Daeshun Hamilton:

  • Jason Moore (51:45): Discusses Miller's touchdown efficiency but highlights his need for more targets.
  • Mike Wright (53:48): Expresses interest in Daeshun Hamilton's potential, especially if Emmanuel Sanders exits the Broncos.

• Michael Gallup:

  • Jason Moore (53:37): Sees Gallup as a promising receiver if Dak Prescott can consistently deliver the ball.
  • Andy Holloway (53:39): Supports Gallup's potential to carve out a significant role in the offense.

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5. Foot Clan Mailbag: Hunter Henry

The hosts address a listener's question about tight end Hunter Henry, evaluating his performance and future in fantasy football.

• Hunter Henry's Value:

  • Andy Holloway (54:48): Considers Henry worthy of top 10 tight end considerations, despite not being the primary target.
  • Jason Moore (55:02): Aligns with Holloway, suggesting Henry can secure a solid mid-tier position with consistent involvement.

• Comparison to Trey Burton:

  • Andy Holloway (56:16): Compares Henry to Trey Burton, noting Henry's higher cost but similar potential in a strong offensive system.

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6. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with a blend of light-hearted banter and promotional content, encouraging listeners to engage further with the Fantasy Footballers community. The hosts tease upcoming segments, including additional rookie reviews and fantasy strategies, ensuring listeners stay tuned for future insights.

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Notable Quotes:

• Andy Holloway (05:40): "Antonio Brown has been the number one in his tier for several years now. This might be the first year he's not the first wide receiver taken off the board."

• Jason Moore (20:10): "Baker Mayfield broke the NFL rookie passing touchdowns record, but consistency is still a question mark."

• Josh Allen (30:07): "His dual-threat ability is reminiscent of Cam Newton, making him a fun and valuable fantasy asset."

• Jason Moore (34:49): "Josh Rosen needs a whole Voldemort; he was a fantasy bust with no top-tier finishes."

• Andy Holloway (42:07): "D.J. Moore is a freak athlete with the potential to become a top target and a consistent fantasy producer."

This episode provides a wealth of information for fantasy football enthusiasts, offering strategic insights into player tiers and rookie evaluations. Whether you're looking to adjust your draft strategy or seeking projections for the upcoming season, the Fantasy Footballers deliver expert analysis to help you win your league.

Transcript

[Andy Holloway]

Remember when you got your first big screen tv? It made watching games about a thousand times better. There's really no going back after that. Kind of like the first time we watched Hulu. With tons of shows and movies, exclusive originals like the Handmaid's tale, plus live TV for news and sports. Hulu will ruin TV for you forever. Start your free trial [e-mail].

[Mike Wright]

This is Christian Kirk with the Arizona Cardinals, and you're listening to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast.

[Andy Holloway]

Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast coming to you from pristineauction.com studios with your hosts, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike Wright.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, welcome in yet another show. Here we are. Monday. Tuesday. It's Tuesday. Tuesday, February 12th. How dare you, Mike. You thought it was a Monday.

[Mike Wright]

No, I. Look, I was laughing at something completely unrelated to your buffoonery.

[Jason Moore]

Okay. Are you gonna enlighten us or just wanted me to know?

[Mike Wright]

No, it's not appropriate for this show.

[Jason Moore]

All right, then. You got your Baker Mania shirt on. We're gonna be talking about the rookies today on the show.

[Mike Wright]

I may have timed that up.

[Jason Moore]

That's just high production value, that's why. Oh, wow.

[Mike Wright]

Baker Mania.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, you get your Baker catch it? Baker Mania shirt on. We have a roof.

[Mike Wright]

This is actually just because I really like bread.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, you're into, like, the. The vocation of bread making.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Jason Moore]

Now that they call that a baker.

[Andy Holloway]

That'S something I can get behind because pastries are one of my favorite things.

[Mike Wright]

Yep.

[Andy Holloway]

They're actually like four of my top favorite things.

[Jason Moore]

Welcome in.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, that should be a new thing. Like our top five things.

[Jason Moore]

Yes, it could be.

[Andy Holloway]

It's like a top five list of the best.

[Jason Moore]

Jason's favorites.

[Andy Holloway]

My favorites. Four of my favorites are pastries.

[Mike Wright]

You just sound like you have a really strange accent. It's my favorite.

[Andy Holloway]

My favorite pastries are so good. My favorites.

[Jason Moore]

Brooks, how do you think went from.

[Mike Wright]

The Swedish Chef right to Borat in a matter of three syllables?

[Jason Moore]

He heard the word accent, and there was no other choice.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm a talented man. I don't want to do an accent.

[Jason Moore]

Brooks, everything going good for you over there? Oh, it's going great, Andy. Now, see you're wearing an orange shirt as well. What is with this? We got three orange shirts on.

[Andy Holloway]

I'm a loser.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, we know. Rookie review. Today. Quarterbacks and wide receivers, we'll be walking through some of the truth metrics that we brought up in the other positions, talking about this past year's rookies, what to expect from them in year number two, and what Historically, rookies have been able to do in year two as well, especially at the quarterback position. Here's a quick question, it's an interesting one. It's a difficult one when you pose them like this. But what top tier player is most likely to fall out of their respective tier? So a big piece of the ultimate draft kit, which by the way, right now you can up until March 1, there's a big promotion going on and we just released a good get bodied T shirt. Oh, we did so much. Requested get bodied shirt. Jason uses that phrase 30 times a day.

[Andy Holloway]

I do and I.

[Jason Moore]

One of his favorites, one of his favorite phrases.

[Mike Wright]

Look, I must contest how come Jason is the one associated with the phrase that I brought to the show.

[Andy Holloway]

You certainly were the originator. But you know, I, you know the phrase you shine a turd. That's what I did and I made it great.

[Jason Moore]

I think he just called you a turd.

[Andy Holloway]

No, no, the get bodied.

[Mike Wright]

It's a great phrase.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. Because I shined it up.

[Jason Moore]

So you can get that shirt but you get $10 off of it. As one of the pre order bonuses for the ultimate draft kit. We talk about tier based drafting throughout the off season as we head into your draft, looking at players in their respective tiers, making decisions based on that. And so this is a tough question because anybody right now that you would have projected to be a tier one running back, quarterback, wide receiver, whatever, you're not. Yeah, they're projected there for a reason. That's the expectation. This question is which guy's most likely to potentially fall out? Because what we do know is every year somebody does fall out of that tier.

[Andy Holloway]

Several people. Yeah, several people fall out. And the way that I took this, and you could take this a number of different ways, right. Is it how guys finished where they were drafted, whether you think that they will drop out based on their ADP or whether you think they won't produce where you're drafting them. Mine that I'm bringing to the table is Antonio Brown. He has been the number one in his tier by himself for several years now. And I think this is going to be the first year where he's not the first wide receiver taken off the board. I think that could happen even if he stays in Pittsburgh. Obviously if he moves, he's going to fall a tier. He's going to. You're going. If he goes anywhere else, whether it's the 49ers or any situation that you think would be as good as he could land in, I think you're Going to see guys like Hopkins and Tyreek and Devonte Adams, maybe Julio Odell go ahead of Antonio Brown. So I see him as one of the most likely to fall out of where he has been living for the last several seasons.

[Jason Moore]

I'm going to stay on the same team as of today and go with James Conner. Now when we were asked to put out our initial top 10 probably about a month and a half ago, Jason and I put him out there. Connor wasn't in my top 10.

[Andy Holloway]

He was in mine.

[Jason Moore]

He was and he's in a lot of them. And by ADP he is as well. For a lot of people James Conner is the player that I think could. It could get very interesting for him when he is. When he went from no longer the day after day filling in for Lev Bell role dominating performance first seven games of the year was averaging 290 carries, 1300 plus yards, 21 rushing touchdowns. That's what his average was. His pace, his projection. His pace through the first seven games that he played last year when he didn't know if Lev Bell was coming back at any given moment. Now if Antonio Brown leaves this team has had a little bit of tumult and he's been given the keys to this offense. Now I think he's a very talented player but the expectations of him being a top five guy, I don't believe in them. And over the last six games last year, his pace, 235 carries, 997 yards, eight touchdowns. These aren't embarrassing numbers. His receiving totals went down pretty significantly in terms of targets and receiving yard pace in that span. The first half of the season averaging a pace of 738 receiving yards. Second half 460. So that's just what I mean when I say James Conner might not be tier one. I mean he'll be tier two. That's what I think. But not worthy of that high of.

[Mike Wright]

A pick I took kind of. This question is so ridiculously hard right now. I don't know why. I don't know why we're asking this today.

[Jason Moore]

Because it's fun.

[Andy Holloway]

We ask the tough questions.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, yeah. Like should Jason wear a fedora?

[Mike Wright]

Speaking of that.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh man. Fedora. Watch if you 2019.

[Mike Wright]

If you participated in the petition.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. You're talking about the move on petition.

[Andy Holloway]

Look.

[Jason Moore]

That has 354 signatures.

[Mike Wright]

There was a movement.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

On social media. It swept the nation.

[Andy Holloway]

It was disgusting.

[Mike Wright]

It demanded that Jason wear a fedora for an entire week for the show. Overwhelming success. This is what the people wanted we.

[Jason Moore]

Need to explore all our options with what's atop his head.

[Mike Wright]

So we're making this happen.

[Jason Moore]

The fedora is on the way.

[Andy Holloway]

I can promise you this may be.

[Jason Moore]

Delivered during the show.

[Andy Holloway]

Listen, fuckland, I can promise you this. If I wear a fedora for a week, it will then go in the garbage. I will not. This is not something I'm trying to like. I'm just hoping it sticks and then this will be my new look. No. Ridiculous. I will not be a fedora man.

[Mike Wright]

You're gonna be for a week.

[Jason Moore]

You're gonna wear it for that week. And then some of your favorite players are gonna reach out on Twitter and just say, dude, I love this guy with the fedora.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, then I'll. Then I'll keep it. Of course.

[Jason Moore]

I love this dude.

[Andy Holloway]

If juju.

[Jason Moore]

Is that the smash mouth lead singer?

[Andy Holloway]

If juju comes out and says, hey.

[Mike Wright]

Dan, that dude's walking on the sun.

[Andy Holloway]

You look great in this fedora. Then I'll stick with it.

[Jason Moore]

So we've got a couple of Steelers. All right. You took a different route.

[Mike Wright]

You know what we have to do.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, oh, you're staying on the fedora.

[Mike Wright]

We have to get Juju to compliment Jason's fedora.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

I mean, that's all there is to it. He would never take it off at that point.

[Andy Holloway]

Block juju on Twitter. Got it. Okay, so who was your.

[Mike Wright]

I took the easy route out because Matt Ryan was the number two quarterback of 2018, and I just don't see him finishing at number two or number one. I think he will fall probably two tiers.

[Jason Moore]

He won't. Yeah. And I agree with that. None of what you're saying is wrong. But he won't be drafted as a tier one.

[Andy Holloway]

Correct.

[Jason Moore]

He won't be drafted as the number two quarterback off the board.

[Mike Wright]

No, he won't.

[Andy Holloway]

No. I met Matt Ryan, despite having a great season, will be in the 10th round again. I mean, he might end up being actually a solid pick because, I mean, who's going to take him over Drew Brees, you know, next year or so?

[Mike Wright]

Like, the answer to the hard question is, to me, it still depends on what the New Orleans Saints do in free agency. But the clearest teardrop to me would be Alvin Camaro.

[Jason Moore]

Okay.

[Mike Wright]

Of the top five guys last year.

[Jason Moore]

Even if Ingram leaves.

[Mike Wright]

No, that's what I'm saying. If Ingram leaves, then there's no way I'm. I'm talking about.

[Jason Moore]

Okay.

[Mike Wright]

Because of the way that Camara started last year to the way that he finished, which the entire argument.

[Jason Moore]

Surprised you didn't say Adam Thielen. I think he based on how hard you hit his second half.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah. Well, I think that Adam Thielen fell out of that top tier for people during that second half. I do. I mean he finished what, wide receiver 7.

[Andy Holloway]

He's not going to be drafted as a top tier guy.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Andy Holloway]

Like I said, come draft season, Stefan Diggs will wrongly be drafted ahead of him.

[Jason Moore]

All right, don't forget, follow us over on Twitter @ the FF Ballers. You can follow Jason @ Jason FFL, follow Mike @ FF Hitman. You can follow me at Andy Holloway and the website's the fantasy footballers.com YouTube.com the fantasy footballers and ad free. You can listen over on Stitcher Premium. We're also on Apple podcasts. You can subscribe review over there. Google Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Spotify, everywhere that you listen to podcasts. And I've told you all about the get bodied shirt. So let's move on to the news.

[Andy Holloway]

News and notes from around the league presented by sleeper.

[Jason Moore]

There was a very significant sleeper alert coming across the wire. Yes, there was this morning. So let's talk about that first. I think it's what fantasy owners will be most intrigued about and that is the fact that the Cleveland Browns, in the middle of a lunch that we were just having, they signed Kareem Hunt, former running back of the Kansas City Chiefs, cut last year towards the end of the season. Obviously one of the biggest names in fantasy football up into that point. And here is Jack Dorsey. GM John. What did I say?

[Andy Holloway]

Jack John Dorsey.

[Mike Wright]

Look, we've talked John and Jack. They for some reason these guys get to replace their names at will if they want.

[Andy Holloway]

They can do whatever they want.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. So.

[Andy Holloway]

But yeah, John Dorsey was the GM of the Kansas City Chiefs when they.

[Mike Wright]

Drafted Cream and he talk to him like part of the reason for in Cream for Kareem Hunt's when the draft season was happening in that rookie period, why I liked Cream Hunt was because Dorsey was so madly in love with Kareem Hunt and his ability. I mean they traded up significantly to get Cream Hunt in the third round. It was so this, it was, it was shocking to see. Well, the Cleveland Browns have picked up Cream Hunt. You thought, well they don't need him. They got Nick Chubb, they got Duke Johnson. But then when you start thinking through it connecting Dorsey to Cream Hunt, then it absolutely make made sense.

[Andy Holloway]

And you can see a backfield of the future here that is reminiscent of Alvin Camara and Mark Ingram. Where you've got the great pass catching back in, you know, Alvin Camara and in Kareem Hunt. And then you have Chubb, who's just a great bruiser a la, you know, Ingram. But they can all do everything on the field. The thing that I think a lot of people are concerned about, as soon as the news broke Twitter, my timeline was full of, you got to move Chubb down. And I think that's going to be a mistake in 2019 as far as people will move him down because they're worried. And by the time drafts come, we'll know what Kareem Hunt's fate will be. But I expect Cream Hunt to be suspended for the majority of this upcoming season. Agreed. And if, let's say he's gone eight games, so half. If he's gone eight games and you can get Chubb at a discount for the first half of the year as a star. I'm doing that because halfway through the season, which is more than halfway through the fantasy football regular season, if I've got a star running back, I'm going to be able to figure things out by week nine, you know, make some moves.

[Jason Moore]

One of the things that happens a lot of the time in fantasy football is we want the clear path to glory and that clear path that was present for Nick Chubb to win you your league next year. Yeah, it's not as clear anymore. Now, A source told ESPN's Dan Graziano that the discipline process is still ongoing, nowhere near done for Kareem Hunt. Like you said, he's going to get a significant suspension for shoving and kicking a young woman in Cleveland last year. It could be anywhere from probably six to 10 games. That's probably, I would put it at about a, I don't know, 90% chance. It's in that range.

[Mike Wright]

Eight to 10 is the range I'm expecting.

[Andy Holloway]

I'll say six to 12.

[Jason Moore]

But the thing is, if Cleveland remains a team ascending, they have great pieces. Baker was wonderful opportunity in that division, potentially, if they're having great success. There's no world where Kareem Hunt just walks in the door in week 10 or week 11 and takes over the backfield from a successful Nick Chubb. So I think a lot of your confidence in Nick Chubb can remain there. If it was confidence in his talent, sure.

[Mike Wright]

And it's for Kareem Hunt. It's a one year deal. He is a restricted free agent afterwards. So if Cleveland likes where things are trending, if Cream has been able to atone and kind of get his life turned around then, then they will have first crack to bring him back. But it's as far as an NFL contract. This is a very, very low risk for Cleveland.

[Jason Moore]

All right, the other huge news for fantasy football owners, NFL draft watchers, Kyler Murray, Oklahoma Sooner Heisman Trophy winner, Oakland A's draft pick has declared his passion and love and dedication to the game of football and will be entering the NFL draft.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, when we heard this this morning, Mike, you said, oh, Kyler Murray says he's dedicated to, you know, to football. And Andy and I both had the same reaction. It's like, okay, what's the source? Like, who said that? You know, who's saying this? Okay, he's dedicated. And it's like, no, this is. This is Kyler Murray's Twitter page. He is the source who made a graphic saying this. I am fully 100% dedicated to football, to being an NFL quarterback. That's what I'm doing with my career. Which is what he had to do if he wants to be in the top 15 picks of the NFL Draft.

[Jason Moore]

He forfeited $3.16 million that was due to him March 1 from the A's and has to pay back 1.29 million of the 1.5 million signing bonuses. At that point, they retain his rights.

[Mike Wright]

But he has to pay back 1.29 of 1.51. Yeah, sounds like a good deal for.

[Jason Moore]

Tyler so that you know where he ends up, I don't know, but his makeup, his ability, what he did in college, we know he's small. We'll talk so much about the rookies coming out.

[Andy Holloway]

Where do you want him to end up?

[Jason Moore]

Andy, I may or may not have tagged Cliff Kingsbury right after this. You guys know I'm not the biggest Josh Rosen fan and I know we'll talk about him on the show today as well, and I'll tell you why. But at the end of the day, Kyler Murray has a good chance of being a high impact fantasy player because of his dual threat ability. And there'll be other players in that category. But very interesting news. Couple big pieces of news today and be sure that you grab the Sleeper app where you not only get news, but you can switch your dynasty league over there to Sleeper. You can download it today. Sponsors of the news and notes. You guys ready to talk a little rookie review?

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

Rookie review. That's very nice.

[Jason Moore]

Concise. Right to the point, Mike.

[Mike Wright]

Yep.

[Jason Moore]

All right. This is a very interesting. As we dive into fantasy rookie quarterback production and what they're capable of doing this was a very interesting stat to me. The question being can rookie quarterbacks sustain wide receiver production? Okay, so since 2004, so that's a big run. Right. You've got a ton of years there. Rookie quarterbacks who play in 10 plus games, they've sustained a top 12 wide receiver just 16% of the time. They've sustained a top 24 wideout 22% of the time. They've Sustained a top 36 wideout 32% of the time. What is the takeaway when you read that we just talked about Kyler Murray and there'll be other rookie quarterbacks getting a shot this year.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, well, you take a look at the wide receivers that they had this year and see if they buck the trend. If they keep the trend. I mean they're obviously part of the trend. Josh Rosen single handedly has tried to bring that down as far as possible.

[Jason Moore]

Jarvis Landry finished at wide receiver 18.

[Andy Holloway]

Exactly.

[Jason Moore]

For Baker Mayfield. Right.

[Andy Holloway]

A wide receiver two, I would say.

[Mike Wright]

I mean we got a chicken and egg situation as well. Because if there is a rookie quarterback starting 10 plus games for a team that seems probably not very good to.

[Jason Moore]

Start with, but it does help us when we look at play. I mean, I think this past year, you know, you wanted to see Quincy and Newmar, Robbie Anderson and what Sam Darnold had to work with there as he learned the ropes. Baker Mayfield, it took him a while, he broke records, still couldn't sustain a top 12 wide receiver. So we may have high expectations for the fit where these players are drafted. But you got to bear in mind you will be bucking the trend. If somebody walks into Washington, okay. And takes over the quarterback position in year one and you end up with a wide receiver one, well, to be.

[Mike Wright]

Fair, that would be bucking the trend for all wide receivers in Washington. Washington, yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Well, and like you said, a bit of a chicken or egg thing. But let's start with Baker. Obviously the first overall pick in the draft. We did not talk about him in the quarterback truth episodes. He finished at QB 16, 19 or.

[Mike Wright]

Yes, you're right, yes, 16, 19. Inconsistency.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, 19 was his consistency. Rank passed for 27 touchdowns, 14 interceptions. Always difficult to evaluate rookies because there's a learning curve a portion of the season where they are either, you know, for him he had a different offensive coordinator, a different head coach. He busted half the time when he played. He was, he was good 50% of the time and then he was great just 14% of the time. But the, you know, the sky's the limit for Baker and what he has the ability to do. Do we expect him to get there as soon as next year?

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I really, really do. I think that what the Browns have done offensively, I mean, look, they're bringing in Kareem Hunt, they're not standing pat. They've, they took the offensive coordinator, promoted him to the head coach because they said, look, this is going to be an offense, this is going to be an offensive led team. And when you have the rookie first pick in the draft who comes in and breaks the NFL record for rookie passing touchdowns and he did it without starting until week four, you've got something special on your hands. And so going forward into next year, I will, you know, depending on where Baker's ADP will be, I don't think he can possibly leap most of the guys that go in the single digits because there's not that many quarterbacks that get drafted in the single digits anymore. You know, the late round quarterback thing is more and more common in all of your home leagues. And so there's going to be 4, 5, 6 quarterbacks drafted in those, in those single digit rounds. I don't see Baker jumping ahead of them this season on draft price, but I could see Baker finishing. I mean, I think sky's the limit. If you told me that Baker's a top five quarterback next year, I could see that. I think he has the potential. That's the type of guy I want to draft. I want to draft a guy in the double digit rounds who's like, maybe he doesn't, maybe doesn't take that leap yet, but he has the potential, the team, the offense, the coaching staff to really take over.

[Mike Wright]

Baker will be top 12 next year.

[Andy Holloway]

I agree with that. But he'll be drafted in the top 12 as well.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I mean I'm not as bullish as uj. I don't, I don't see top five as a potential outcome for Baker Mayfield next year. I don't disagree with you, Mike. I think, I think 10, 11, 12, that's about where I'd have him. I'd still take a guy like Matt Ryan ahead of Baker Mayfield last year. Third most passing yards per game ever by a rookie. And it's great, it's great that he's breaking all these records for rookies, but they're still not putting him in the category of the upper echelon passers yet. And you saw that up and down games throughout the season didn't have a game where he broke 30 fantasy points. Great player. Didn't really see a difference when he played top or bottom defenses. Didn't see a difference at home on the road. But I think, as it is with many of these guys, you have to leapfrog a Matt Ryan. You're going to have to leapfrog a Cam Newton. You know, do you draft him ahead of a Matthew Stafford? Probably, yeah, 100%, because, you know, the ceiling is so much better for Baker.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

The harder guys like will be Dak, Philip Rivers, Kirk Cousins. Who would you be taking Baker over? Those guys?

[Jason Moore]

I would take all three of those over Baker. I think.

[Andy Holloway]

I think I would take Baker over all three of those. Maybe not Kirk.

[Jason Moore]

Hey, now. Yeah, maybe not Kirk. So Kirk would be the one that you might consider putting ahead of him.

[Andy Holloway]

I feel like Kirk is falling because of the head coach or the offensive coordinator changes.

[Jason Moore]

Mike, can you take your shirt off?

[Mike Wright]

I could.

[Andy Holloway]

He wants.

[Jason Moore]

Jason needs the Baker.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, you need a Baker.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, I mean, where are you?

[Mike Wright]

So you wanted some Hot Peck action?

[Jason Moore]

No. Nobody needs those Pepperonis.

[Andy Holloway]

Not a Super bowl halftime show.

[Jason Moore]

Oh, you got the tats to support that, Mike. Now, where are you with Bakers?

[Mike Wright]

And the flaps?

[Jason Moore]

The tats and the flaps? That's. That's Mike. Those three names break it down for me.

[Mike Wright]

Baker mania of those, man, that. That will be a really tough one.

[Jason Moore]

I'm just making a little show highlight note. Tats and flats.

[Mike Wright]

That'll be a really, really tough one because of just trying to project the ceiling for Baker as opposed to those other players. It.

[Jason Moore]

This team.

[Mike Wright]

Baker would. Let's see. I would take Cousins over him. I would take Baker over Philip Rivers just because of going for absolute ceiling. And Dak is going to be. I have to evaluate Dak more before I can make that call.

[Jason Moore]

I'm worried that we'll confuse on the field success with fantasy success for Baker because he's going to be a very good NFL quarterback. But I still think a lot of this offense is going to be predicated on the success of Nick Chubb. They just made another investment into the running game. We'll see what happens.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, I mean, I guess the reason I'm willing to take the leap is because let's say he turns into hall of Fame caliber. You know, he was drafted as the number one pick. If he takes that leap, I want to be in before the draft. Price also takes that.

[Mike Wright]

Right.

[Andy Holloway]

Because I'm fine. I'm fine pivoting off. He's not that great. Great. I'll stream the Position. I stream the position most years, but I want to get in before everyone else.

[Jason Moore]

That's what you call a low cost opinion. If you.

[Andy Holloway]

It was Pat Mahomes this last year.

[Jason Moore]

No, I mean, yeah, if you're, if you believe that the cost of believing that is, is nothing. I mean, if you, if you're all in on Baker, you don't pay the price. I mean, you're gonna pay a 10th round pick for him.

[Andy Holloway]

Is that doing a low cost opinion Draft pick? That's one of my trademarks. That's one of my favorite strategies.

[Jason Moore]

One of your favorites. Yeah. By the way, we'll talk about Sam Darnold here. I did want to pause for a second because I forgot to remind the listeners out there if you are hungry for more episodes of the Three of Us, which famished, which is just very unlikely. But if you would like an extra show that entertains and that's all it does, there's really nothing else. You should check out the Spitballers podcast because we drop a Spitballers podcast episode every Monday. It is replete with dad jokes, nonsense, bad jokes, all of the in between moments, tats and flaps, all sorts of things, chatting life. Every Monday. It's an hour. It's a fun drive to work to brighten your Monday up. So we encourage you, obviously free. It's a podcast. You just go subscribe, listen in, catch up on some old episodes, become a spitwad, learn a little bit about the three of us.

[Mike Wright]

Yep.

[Jason Moore]

Whether you want to or not. All right, the next rookie to review here, Sam Darnold, third pick of the draft, New York Jet quarterback, busted a sweet 69% of the time. Good 31% of the time, great 8% of the time.

[Mike Wright]

None of those numbers are good, if you're wondering.

[Jason Moore]

No, no, no. And his overall finish was 27th. So consistency at the bottom of the league.

[Andy Holloway]

The one nice thing was that the, you know, his best two games of the year were two of the last three games. You know, you started to see some flashes. That's what you want out of a rookie. Not, you know, when you're comparing Darnold to Baker, he's, he's not as good, but Baker had one of the best rookie, you know, NFL quarterback seasons of all time. And so yeah, Darnold was not that great, but he did have the games where he showed you the flashes over.

[Jason Moore]

The last four games. Six touchdowns, only one interception, 66, 63, 68% completion percentage and had the big game against Green Bay. 341 and three, that's what you're talking about flashing. That's the kind of thing that we did not see from a Josh Rosen. Robbie Anderson, can we do like a.

[Andy Holloway]

He who shall not be named for.

[Jason Moore]

Josh Rosen needs a whole Voldemort.

[Andy Holloway]

I don't even.

[Jason Moore]

I think that. Look, I'm getting a lot of hate right now on Twitter for not liking Josh Rosen as a potential bounce back candidate because most people that I've talked to, especially Cardinal fans, they understand that he had no offensive line, no running game, no wide receivers. I understand that to people but you would have wanted to see one or two games that looked like one of these Darnold games.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Games where he made a player to that made you say, oh he can overcome a bad offensive line on this play. He can overcome a bad wide receiver on this play. I didn't see that. And we'll talk more about it momentarily. But for Darnold, you saw that. Now Robbie Anderson, he finishes wide receiver 35 with Darnold and new wall got hurt. He was not way up there but you saw some rapport with Chris Herndon. He was a better player against bottom 16 defenses. And it seemed to me my eye test, you guys confirm or deny this and it fits with that statistic. When he was up against it, when he was facing a top defense, when he was put pressure on it, he was committing turnovers, crumpled, which is the problem he had in college. Grumple Stiltskin, remember Algae Crumpler, tight end?

[Andy Holloway]

I completely agree with you, Andy. He didn't step up in the, in the difficult situations. He took advantage of the easier situations. But you know, that's a rookie. This is, this is a guy that, you know what I talked about with Baker, taking that risk and using my draft capital and draft before, I didn't see enough, you know, with Darnold or maybe not so much with Darnold, but with the situation, the jets, the offense, everything there I'm not, I'm not taking that leap and drafting him before it happens. With Darnold I'm going to wait until he becomes, you know, a Matthew Stafford esque producer in the NFL and then I'll, and then I'll take him in years future.

[Jason Moore]

Mike, any thoughts on Darnie?

[Mike Wright]

Completely agree. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah. Let's move on to Josh Allen. Get to the end zone.

[Andy Holloway]

Get to the end zone.

[Jason Moore]

Josh Allen, seventh pick in the draft.

[Mike Wright]

He's going to be so fun to talk about. Yeah, this just the offseason, just the off season, watching what happens to his ADP.

[Jason Moore]

Listen, the aforementioned two quarterbacks. Baker, great games. So that means what? Top three finish on the week? Yeah, 14% of the time. Sam Darnold, 8%. That would be one time. Josh Allen. 36% of his games were top three finishes. And because he's a rookie and you can kind of throw out, I mean, maybe you guys don't, but I throw out everything up until week 12 till we got to see him do what he was doing from week 12 on.

[Andy Holloway]

Do you know what?

[Jason Moore]

He was great.

[Andy Holloway]

Do you remember what quarterback rank he was week 12 on?

[Jason Moore]

I'm going to guess based on the numbers. Six solid games or pretty solid games? I'm going to guess QB4.

[Andy Holloway]

QB4 is a good guess. Mike, do you remember?

[Mike Wright]

Yes, I do.

[Andy Holloway]

It is QB1.

[Jason Moore]

All right, that's decent.

[Andy Holloway]

That's pretty good.

[Jason Moore]

So you look at a guy like Josh Allen and the rushing yardage, which by the way was the second most rushing yards per game by a rookie in history. All of the rushing at the quarterback position, at the quarterback position, all the rushing totals, it washes out inconsistencies elsewhere that every rookie quarterback has. So if he ascends as a passer, it seems like gravy for Josh Allen, right?

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. When you've got the body and the athleticism that Josh Allen has, when you look at fantasy football in the quarterback position, it's very Cam Newton esque. I mean, we made fun of Cam Newton's accuracy for years on this show when he was not a great quarterback. We joke about, you know, when he went down and a backup would come in, that they finally have, you know, a better quarterback. But for fantasy football, with the way that they score, rushing and with the big body, to be able to keep doing that, you know, we'll talk about Lamar Jackson as well in a minute. But I think Josh Allen could sustain rushing numbers like that, just like Cam has done for a long time. And so, yeah, for fantasy purposes, Josh Allen's another guy I'll definitely be willing to draft late in my draft. I want a shot at one of those Baker or Josh Allen upside type picks.

[Jason Moore]

Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield. I take Josh Allen going away next for fantasy next year.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, I lean that way as well.

[Jason Moore]

Eight fumbles. That was one of the 89 attempts. 631 yards on the ground. He's an example of. Look, he didn't have a wide receiving core. No, at all. I mean, Robert Foster, Zay Jones, Isaiah.

[Andy Holloway]

McKenzie, he had to deal with Kelvin Benjamin for half of it.

[Jason Moore]

And injuries to Lashawn McCoy throughout. And he flashed. He gave you games of elite production and he led the team to competitive games. I'm not saying, I'm not trying to say that Josh Allen's the greatest quarterback ever, but for fantasy purposes, he did some very special things over the last six weeks of the season.

[Mike Wright]

Like I said, it's going to be very fun to watch what happens.

[Jason Moore]

Where's his ADP going to be?

[Mike Wright]

I have no idea. I cannot get a feeling for how the general public is going to proceed with Josh Allen.

[Jason Moore]

You have to imagine that because it's impossible to go the other direction. You have to imagine they add pieces that they weigh the offense. The optics of his receiving weapons has to be better after this offseason than.

[Andy Holloway]

What he's had as well as the offensive line. Remember, they lost three players right before the season. One retired, one was injured, one was earlier. But yeah, I mean, I agree the situation around him will be better. So. But man, I just can't see these guys, the general consensus, you know, the average drafter really taken a shot on these guys when there's, you know, Jimmy Garoppolo back and in San Francisco and.

[Jason Moore]

You know, I'll take Josh Allen with my last pick.

[Andy Holloway]

I'll take Josh Allen as well, but I think he'll be able to.

[Mike Wright]

But will you be able to?

[Jason Moore]

I don't know.

[Mike Wright]

That's the question.

[Jason Moore]

Yes. Because I don't see anybody taking. They're going to take Tom Brady over Josh Allen, right?

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. And Kirk Cox.

[Jason Moore]

They're going to take Big Ben over Josh Allen, right?

[Mike Wright]

I would take Ben over him. Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

They take Matt Ryan over Josh Allen.

[Andy Holloway]

Yep.

[Mike Wright]

I would take Matt Ryan.

[Jason Moore]

So we're going to get through enough names where they're all loaded up on quarterbacks.

[Andy Holloway]

They're going to take Jared Goff. They're going to take, you know, so he's interesting.

[Jason Moore]

You're right. Yes. Getting back to your main point. Interesting. All right, Josh Rosen.

[Mike Wright]

Less interesting.

[Jason Moore]

Lamar Jackson. The last two quarterbacks I want to talk about here before we move on to wide receiver rookie review. Rosen was bad, putrid. He was a bust by fantasy category standards. In 93% of his game. He was only classified as good, which is a top 12 finish once.

[Andy Holloway]

Just. Just one game where he was.

[Jason Moore]

All right.

[Andy Holloway]

It's good.

[Jason Moore]

Most picks.

[Mike Wright]

Look, fantasy is not everything.

[Jason Moore]

No.

[Mike Wright]

I get other quarterback can be good in real life and put a bad fantasy numbers, but woof.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. But the buzz. Your girlfriend the most picked sixes buzz. Your girlfriend the most Picked sixes in the lowest yards per attempt for any quarterback with at least nine games played. Yeah, that's bad for both fantasy and real life there. Look, there's a reason the Arizona Cardinals get to pick number one this year. It was. It was not good there.

[Jason Moore]

The Bradford Rosen combo averaged 13.3 fantasy points per game. The Cardinals never had a top 12 performance at the quarterback position. This was on par with the Nick Foles case Keenum, Jeff Fisher led Rams.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, don't say that.

[Jason Moore]

2015, Larry Fitzgerald, the best, finishing wide out for the Cardinals 26th and. No, I mean, what. Here's the thing. Most Cardinal fans, and I'm a Cardinal fan, in case you're curious, they write me and they say, how could you expect anybody to do better? I couldn't. But this was. This was next level bad. And like I said, no flashes of success. And I don't. I'm not a bot. I don't believe in the sunk cost fallacy. In terms of quarterbacks in the NFL, we've seen enough. Christian Hackenberg, ZJ Manuels, Ryan Tannehills, whatever the case may be a swing and a mission. If you. If you miss, you miss. So, look, I can be wrong, and I'd love to be wrong. They're my hometown team. I think the Cardinals need to move on. They need to move Josh Rose into a team like the Giants to Washington for a second or third round pick. And if I were them, I would draft another quarterback. That's just where I'm at.

[Andy Holloway]

Hey, Dolphins, Dolphins. Come get your guy. Come get you some roses.

[Mike Wright]

Oh, man. Yeah, I have no guy.

[Andy Holloway]

There's nothing to add here.

[Mike Wright]

I mean, nothing to comment.

[Jason Moore]

Lamar Jackson's more.

[Mike Wright]

I would. I would give him one. At least one more year, though.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. Look, you bring in Cliff Kingsbury, you change the offensive system, you draft a couple pieces. Could Josh Rosen, who I actually really liked, I liked his college tape. He was my number two quarterback on my board going into last year's draft. I was so excited when the Cardinals drafted him. There are ways in which he can rebound, but no doubt, no doubt there were some things you saw on the field, namely his accuracy, which he was. He was very accurate in college. And then in the NFL is just air mailing or, you know, putting balls at people's feet. It was just. It was just bad.

[Jason Moore]

All right. Lamar Jackson, on the other hand, 14% great games, 43% good games. Never busted in any of his starts, never fit that bust category. So he was a top 12 guy.

[Andy Holloway]

Well, you got A quarterback and a running back. Every time he suited up, you got.

[Jason Moore]

A running back and a quarterback. Every time he sees, yes in one.

[Andy Holloway]

Position, it was very, very nice.

[Jason Moore]

So where do we look at him for next year? This is his team. He fumbled the ball a ton. He did not seem to. He wasn't able to carry on the momentum that John Brown had from the beginning half of the year with Joe Flacco. John Brandon ended up at wide receiver 42. I assume if you own a wide receiver on Baltimore, you run for the hills at this point. Until we see more from Lamar Jackson.

[Mike Wright]

The just a comment real quick on the wide receivers. I like to get a snapshot of like how efficient was a player. Did they way overproduce with their opportunity? But the three main wide receivers for the Baltimore Ravens, Michael Crabtree, John Brown and Willie Snead, their finish at the amount of targets they get compared to their finish of total fantasy points. It's not just bad. It is horrifying to look at how far below their targets they actually finished. It's. It is absolutely insane. I mean we do. We'll talk about that stat. Like I like to call it meat on the bone. You know, did they. Do they under produce?

[Andy Holloway]

But it's just hilarious.

[Mike Wright]

It's hilarious to see. Oh well, there's the Ravens wide receivers all together.

[Jason Moore]

So.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, I completely agree. If you have a Baltimore Raven wide receiver on your dynasty team, you better. I have no advice. I have no advice to give you.

[Andy Holloway]

Just don't, don't draft them. If you're in a dynasty league, then you hope that it's John Brown. He's a free agent. He'll sign somewhere else. You're not going to be starting those wide receivers. Hopefully someone like Mark Andrews at tight end can step up. Lamar Jackson will be drafted ahead of Baker and ahead of Josh Allen.

[Jason Moore]

That's what I was going to ask you. Do you prefer Lamar Jackson over both those guys?

[Andy Holloway]

I would definitely prefer Josh Allen as the first of those three because I believe that the rushing numbers will be great for him and Lamar Jackson. But I believe Josh Allen can stick with it through the year. I just can't imagine if they continue to run Lamar Jackson how they did in the few games that he got to start that he could play 16 well.

[Jason Moore]

He'll be working on throwing the football this offseason. We'll see what he gets gets accomplished by that, by that measure because he's going to need to be able to throw the football.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

D.J. moore at the wide receiver position. 24th pick in the draft, 16 games, 55 receptions, 788 yards, two touchdowns on 82 targets. Less than 50% of the snaps through the first seven games, but in the last seven weeks, 85% of the snaps. So he earned his way onto the.

[Mike Wright]

Field on his, his entire season. We know that. Wide receivers, rookie wide receivers, it generally takes to the second half of the season before you start seeing anything really come together. For these guys, everything for D.J. moore season is weeks 11 through 14. He was the wide receiver 10 in that span. And after that, Cam Newton, his quarterback couldn't, by his own admission, could not even throw the ball 30 yards. So that, that's where I'm looking. I'm looking at that tiny snapshot. I know that's a really small sample to see a rookie wide receiver produce, but the first guy taken in the draft, the Panthers could have taken literally any wide receiver they wanted. They wanted Dj Moore. I think very big things are coming for DJ Moore next year. Assuming that Cam Newton's shoulder is right by training camp.

[Andy Holloway]

He showed a lot on the field and you know, he had the, he's a freak athlete. The combine was, was off the charts. And when you've got a guy that's used how he was being used, I believe he had the second most rookie wide receiving rushing yards in a season. That's, that's nice. You get that baseline of touches for a guy. I agree that DJ Moore is someone to target next year because he has the opportunity to really take over the number one role on the team.

[Jason Moore]

He's the most well rounded receiver they have and he's the most, the one that has the most big play potential. So I agree with you guys.

[Andy Holloway]

Devin Funches is an unrestricted free agent, so that'll be one less mouth to feed there.

[Mike Wright]

Right?

[Jason Moore]

And Cam Newton is looking good in recovery, so I mean, there's an opportunity there.

[Mike Wright]

I'm hoping.

[Jason Moore]

Calvin Ridley, the 26th pick in the draft by the Falcons, he finished at 20th overall. His consistency rank, however, was 39th because he had some big boy games. We talked about him in the wide receiver truth episode. So you've heard about him. The, the cap that he has, his name is Julio Jones. Right. There's a limit to the capability there. And if you took out his week 337 point game, it really wasn't a, it was a pretty rocky road for Calvin Ridley, but as a rookie, finishing at number 20, never playing more than 74% of the snaps. He played his part. But what do we expect from Ridley next year. How. What's his real stealing with Julio?

[Andy Holloway]

You know, it's funny because a lot of times with rookie wide receivers. You just mentioned this, Mike, and it really is true. The second half of the year is so much better for rookie wide receivers than the first half of the year. But it wasn't the case with Calvin Ridley because he had those two monster games really early in the season. And if you look at from week five on, he was actually the wide receiver 34 behind guys like Zay Jones and DJ Moore and those players. I think his upside is limited because he'll never be the number one for this offense, at least not for the next, you know, three or four years while Julio is there. And it's going to be, I think a lot of it's going to be touchdown dependent. Can he go. So I don't see him as the wide receiver 20, you know, the monster weeks he had, I see him much more as a wide receiver 30 or wide receiver 34. What he did for the majority of the season, can he go up from that? Yes. But I don't think he's going to be a consistent wide receiver. I think he's going to be a frustrating guy that you don't. He's not the lead target, he's not the first read. And when you're drafting him, if he gets a bump up because that year two, you know, wide receiver, then I'm going to be hesitant to draft him.

[Jason Moore]

Mohammed Sanu is 29 years old. He's under contract for the next two full seasons. Doesn't mean he'll be there for those two. But you know, this year Mohamed, Mohammed Sanu out snapped him. So until Sunu gives something up, not to say the snap counts don't go up for Ridley, but it seems like there is a world where he's going to be developing behind these guys for another year.

[Mike Wright]

He just overperformed so much in the touchdown category. But he scored, he caught a touchdown every 9.2 targets.

[Andy Holloway]

Right?

[Mike Wright]

That's, that's insane. When you, when you're looking at guys like Michael Thomas 16.3, his teammate Julio Jones every 21 targets, Julio scored a touchdown. To be in that range where you're catching a touchdown for fewer than 10 targets, that's. You're, you're in Tyler Lockett range, you're in Mike Williams range, where it just, it's not a sustainable thing for your fantasy production.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I, you know, this could be the last year for Sunu. You could be looking two years down the line. But Cortland Sutton, eighth pick of the second round by the Broncos, 16 games played, 704 yards, four touchdowns. He played at least 69% of the snaps in weeks 12 through 16. This was after 12 out of 16 weeks. Oh, okay. All right. Thanks, Brooks. In 12 out of 16 weeks. So even before Demarius and Emmanuel Sanders had their departures, but overall, I think he was a disappointment by our standards.

[Mike Wright]

I'm going to classify Cortland Sutton's season as disappointing.

[Jason Moore]

And as of right now, there's not like a. I feel like the same arguments we made for him to have a nice finish to the season, which he really. He didn't. No, I mean, he really didn't. They're all the same arguments right now. I mean, he's. He's the guy, but he was the guy then. And Case Keenum, well, he's the guy and he's probably going to be the guy again. Even if they draft a quarterback, Keenum is expensive. And the likelihood that he's a transition quarterback now, Elway's come out and said, case Keenum, he's. He's not the answer, which always feels good. Case Keenum was bad. And that translated to lack of opportunities for a player that we deem as talented. Now I'm going to make him prove it. He's going to have to go out there and do it. It can't be a flash play here and a drop there. It has to be a consistent week to week thing if he's going to have any value in fantasy. So I see the upside. I wouldn't be surprised if, you know, this team focused on the defense and running the football the way that they found success towards the end of last year before they were eliminated from the playoffs. I mean, you have Philip Lindsay and you have Royce Freeman and you have Bradley Chubb and Von Miller. So Keenum is not going to be this. Him airing it out is not going to be the solution.

[Andy Holloway]

No, I agree. I mean, you know, Sutton is going to be one of those, what is he? What does he cost Type of players? Because I do not believe, if I had to bet, will he turn that corner and be the superstar next year that he was drafted to be, that he has the opportunity as the clear cut number one on that team to be. I would bet against it because just like you said, Andy, he had all those things at the end of last season. Nothing's going to change really dramatically for him over that other than, you know, he gets another year in the system and that. That year to leap. So I'm willing to take the shot because I think he's got the talent for it. He, he was great in college and he showed flashes. So if he's cheap, you know, if he is in double digit rounds, then I'll take a shot. I'd rather take a shot on him than other guys that are like ho hum. I know what I've got, which is a wide receiver three at the draft. But if, if come draft season he's starting to be seen as he's the number one for a team and he's drafted to be, you know, one of the, one of the last number one wide receivers. But still in that seventh, eighth, ninth round, I'm, I'm probably going to pass. I'm going to bet against him.

[Mike Wright]

It's all up to what happens with Manny Sanders over this offseason. How does his recovery go? Does the team cut him? Because they can. They're going to have to give him a ton of money if he plays with the Broncos next year, but they can get out from underneath the contract for pretty little at the dead cap. And then if he has that whole off season in the training camp where he's the number one and they're building the team around him already, then I'm going to be far more interested in Sutton.

[Andy Holloway]

I would be shocked if they keep Emmanuel Sanders.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I will be too. If you had to pick right now, would you rather have Robbie Anderson or Cortland sudden for next year?

[Mike Wright]

For next year.

[Jason Moore]

Ooh, those guys are going in similarly in draft pick.

[Andy Holloway]

I think I would go Robbie Anderson. We've just seen him be successful on the field two years in a row.

[Jason Moore]

And you know, had a stretch of games as a number one this past year.

[Mike Wright]

I lean that way as well.

[Jason Moore]

All right, Dante Pettis and Christian Kirk, two more rookies to talk about here. Jason, you're on record in love with Dante Pettis. I think his jersey arrived today. Yes, it did. Second round pick from by the 49ers. 467 yards, five touchdowns. Last year with the injuries, Christian Kirk also got injured. Both these guys injured in their rookie seasons missed us a decent amount of games.

[Andy Holloway]

You can't ask Pettis to have done more given his opportunity. He, he took advantage of it. As soon as he was more and more involved, the injuries happened. And you know, late in the season he was a wide receiver five from weeks 12 to 15. And now he goes into that year two leap. He gets a massive quarterback upgrade in the sense that the starting quarterback comes back and could those things change and now he's not targeted the same?

[Jason Moore]

Sure.

[Andy Holloway]

But I would always prefer a quarterback upgrade than not having a quarterback upgrade. So I really like Pettis. I hope he doesn't, you know, rise too much in the draft because he's not someone I'm willing to plant a flag in and say no matter. No matter what. I know he's going to be great. But his talent is there. He showed it. He beat NFL corners on the ridge.

[Jason Moore]

That's why he missed Week 17. Jason stuck a flag in him.

[Andy Holloway]

Sorry, Dante, that was my bad.

[Jason Moore]

Christian Kirk. Mike, weigh in on Christian Kirk and what's his potential? I mean, in a lot of ways when you look at what he did last year, 68 targets, 43 receptions. Well, he was the best looking receiver on the field.

[Mike Wright]

He had the best connection with Rosen. So that's the silver lining that you can take away from the season. But there's not a lot to be excited about heading into the season with.

[Andy Holloway]

Christian Allen, is there?

[Mike Wright]

I love the player.

[Andy Holloway]

The talent was there and the hope now is that Cliff Kingsbury comes in and gets rid of the what looked like the Rams offense from a couple years ago. Just the blandest, most boring, outdated offense in the world. And they utilize the talent that Christian Kirk has. And I could see him being a, you know, a regular producer for fantasy, but I don't think he's got the skill set to be a one or the ceiling to have a one. Not just next year, but I think four or five years down the road. I really like Christian Kirk. I just don't see him as a fantasy number one for your team.

[Jason Moore]

Anthony Miller, another intriguing rookie last year with the Bears. He had a couple of games, mostly touchdown depending games where he, you know, he had a touchdown every 4.7 catches. Is that true?

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Jason Moore]

Seven touchdowns on 33 catches. Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

How I highlighted Calvin Ridley. I was waiting for this to come up, but Anthony Miller had seven touchdowns. He Every 7.7 targets was scoring a touchdown. I mean, that's not possible.

[Jason Moore]

It's not possible. But you also like the fact that they put him in a position to do that. Yeah, but he needs more volume to be consistent. Some of the other rookies from this draft class, do you guys want to pick out a name or two that you think have a chance to emerge next year? Guys that didn't have a lot of opportunity, like James Washington of the Steelers, if Antonio Brown was to leave Trequan Smith, he had a couple of boom games and then disappeared. Kiki QT was a target hog when he was on the field, which was almost never the guy that I would.

[Andy Holloway]

Throw out since we talked about Cortland Sutton and his opportunities would be Daeshun Hamilton. Daeshun Hamilton has the exact same opportunity as Cortland Sutton has. Except if. If it's true that Emmanuel Sanders isn't back and Emmanuel Sanders was the primary guy, I mean, you could argue even two years ago, he was the primary guy over Demarius Thomas. Daeshun is much more of the Emanuel Sanders type. That seems to be more of the case Keenum type. I think Daeshun could outproduce Cortland Sutton next year and he'll certainly be much cheaper in your draft case.

[Jason Moore]

Keenum's type is the closest player to the line of scrimmage.

[Andy Holloway]

Right.

[Jason Moore]

So generally that's going to be Daeshun Hamilton over Cortland Sutton. That'll be a tough pick for me. I like Michael Gallup. I think Michael Gallup showed me a lot over various weeks, especially, you know, even moving into the playoffs. And what you saw, Dak being able to get him the ball, 500 plus yards, only a couple touchdowns. But I think Michael Gallup has a real opportunity to carve out that number two role which when you play on a team with Amari Cooper, Cooper's gonna. He's gonna disappear a couple games every year.

[Andy Holloway]

So Michael Crabtree is pretty good.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I think. I think Gallup is very interesting in terms of earning the trust of Dak Prescott. Mike, do you have a name that you want to pick out?

[Mike Wright]

Kiki. Kiki is very interesting to me. Just the absolute target. Domination when he played. But his health is highly questionable at best.

[Jason Moore]

All right, let's go ahead and take a couple minutes for Foot Clan Mailbag before we shut down the show.

[Andy Holloway]

Mailbag. Mailbag.

[Jason Moore]

All right, if you have a question, go to the website, the fantasy footballers.com or you can dial our voicemail hotline, 302-464. TFFB. Here's a question about. Well, Hunter Henry Tyler in Buffalo says, hey, ballers, there's one player you did not touch on in your truth episodes because there was no truth to him this season. But going into next year with the abysmal tight end landscape, what is the truth about Hunter Henry? The truth is we were all very, very disappointed to have to report the news last year that he was going to miss the season. We were all very excited to see what he could do stepping out of the shadow of Antonio Gates, a shadow that has Grown larger in recent years, however.

[Andy Holloway]

No, that's great. That was a great joke.

[Jason Moore]

Thank you.

[Andy Holloway]

He looks like twice the man he used to be.

[Mike Wright]

And I'm twice the man I used to be.

[Jason Moore]

La Contra Henry is absolutely worthy of top 10 tight end considerations.

[Mike Wright]

Absolutely.

[Andy Holloway]

He's top 10 100%. He is. Once you take out the primary target, tight ends like the ones that are the primary target in their offense, maybe it's. Maybe Kittle is a primary target on his office. Definitely, Kelsey. Then it's like, okay, everyone else is going to have bad games where they disappear. Hunter Henry will as well. But he's going to be involved enough, talented enough, and on a good enough offense where he'll be the tight end six or seven.

[Jason Moore]

Here's the thing that I want to contextualize with Hunter Henry and I think he fits into the Trey Burton hype category where you kind of see the path and you think he's going to have the great opportunity. But Mike Williams, Keenan Allen, Melvin Gordon out of the backfield, Austin Eckler out of the backfield, and both of you guys have thrown a lot of shade on Philip Rivers next year for whatever reason. So I feel like you guys have.

[Andy Holloway]

I have.

[Mike Wright]

You guys, maybe him. I was like, I still like.

[Jason Moore]

Well, you said you take Baker over.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

For ceiling. Because Philip Rivers will still be in that bake range.

[Jason Moore]

Philip Rivers ceiling is. It's still pretty nice. It's still pretty nice. But regardless, I'm just saying, like, it's easy for us to get hyped about the next tier of tight end. I'm not saying Hunter can't deliver, but I'm with you, jay. I think 8 to 12 is a more reasonable expectation for Hunter Henry.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, sure. You know, I think in that 8 range, he'll definitely be a top 12 guy because it doesn't take much to actually finish as a top 12 tight end. And you know, you compare him against Trey Burton and I would just say the difference there is Trey Burton came over, got the big contract, the system looked great. But Hunter Henry, the player he was drafted to be a great tight end, you know, he's. He's 65250 versus 63235 with Burton. So I, you know, I think Hunter.

[Jason Moore]

Henry, Aren't they all drafted to be great?

[Andy Holloway]

Well, I'm saying he cost a lot more.

[Mike Wright]

We expect you to be.

[Andy Holloway]

Wasn't Hunter Henry a second round draft pick?

[Mike Wright]

Yes, second round. And it's contract year, so he's into that.

[Jason Moore]

Sure. He's coming off an Injury, too.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. But my point is Hunter Henry was drafted in the second round. Trey Burton was undrafted. So he was, he was coming out of college, supposed to be a star.

[Jason Moore]

All right, If I were the commissioner of the NFL, this is a question from Matt in California. If I were the commissioner of the NFL, I would do what?

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, I know it.

[Jason Moore]

To make the Pro bowl watchable, I would do blank. To make the Pro bowl watchable, I.

[Andy Holloway]

Would 100% make it a flag football game. I would take the pads away. I would take the helmets off. I'd watch the players. I'd mic everybody up on a seven second delay. But I think that would be fun. Watch the actual players get to see them. Get to watch them talk smack and, you know, play. Have fun. Take a little bit of the injury risk away. I mean, you could still, you could still tear your ac.

[Jason Moore]

I think you add to it.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, that's. No, I think you might.

[Andy Holloway]

I think players would play all out without pads, more so than they would like in pads. I feel like this just nobody's giving it their all.

[Jason Moore]

Keep it the same. But instead of an armband that the quarterback has, he's got a smartphone. Everybody who's watching on TV at home, they vote on one of three plays. On every play. You get to pick the play, let them run the play. A little bit of active participation in the Pro bowl, that's my, that's my guess.

[Mike Wright]

Not bad. I'm with you, Jay. That forever. I wanted it to be flag football, but boring. No, no, I don't think it'd be boring at all. But I actually think that's the problem is the injury risk will go up because the chance of guys trying to do. I'm talking the skill players going for super fancy, like real hard cuts, real strong juke moves. They're not trying to juke anybody. And when they're.

[Jason Moore]

You guys go watch the American Flag Football League and Chad Johnson.

[Andy Holloway]

They're not trying to juke anybody when they're in pads not in the Pro Bowl. Sure they are not like not having pads. Pads off does not mean they're going to try to cut harder. I don't buy it.

[Jason Moore]

All right.

[Andy Holloway]

If they get shoved down or hit in the air, then sure, they're at more of a risk without the pads, but you can't hit them at all. James Flaglet.

[Jason Moore]

James in Texas has a dynasty question. He's about to start a dynasty league for the first time. Was wondering what is the appropriate amount of bench spots to have so the.

[Mike Wright]

Total amount of spots. I'll just give you the overarch. I like to have 30 players per team and then the starting roster, be quarterback, two running back, two wide receiver, one tight end, and then two Flex.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah. And one of those would be your super flex. Yeah.

[Mike Wright]

And if you want to go with a super Flex, I fully support that.

[Jason Moore]

And they're remaining on the bench.

[Mike Wright]

Absolutely.

[Jason Moore]

All right, Pristine deal of the day. Oh, well, this is just perfect, isn't it? Nick Chubb, a signed Cleveland Browns logo football Yesterday sold for $54.99, which is very worried.

[Andy Holloway]

Oh, that is.

[Jason Moore]

I'd paid the extra penny just to get it right on the dot. Pristine Auction. There's a Kenny Golladay jersey, brand new, up on our wall today that we got from Pristine.

[Mike Wright]

Yeah, I've been hitting up Pristine a little bit.

[Jason Moore]

Yeah, I notice. I checked.

[Andy Holloway]

That's right here.

[Jason Moore]

I checked the credit card statement.

[Andy Holloway]

Here's the thing. Foot Clan, if you want business expense, if you want to win these things, now is the time.

[Mike Wright]

Yes.

[Andy Holloway]

To really take advantage, to be fair.

[Mike Wright]

Not if you want. If you want Patrick Mahomes gear or Julian Edelman gear, that's tougher.

[Andy Holloway]

Good luck. But everyone else, now's the time. So head on over to Pristine Auction. Make a completely free account. Make sure when you do it that you let them know that you found out about them from the Fantasy Footballers podcast.

[Jason Moore]

All right, we'll be back with some more rookie review on Thursday, some fantasy Valentine's and a whole lot more. No tats and flaps, though, I promise.

[Andy Holloway]

Yeah, goodbye. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy Footballers Podcast. Join our fantasy football community on jointhefoot.com and follow us on Twitter the FFballers.