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FantasyPros - Fantasy Football Podcast
2026 Fantasy Values For This Season’s League Winners | Which Players Were on The Most Championship Rosters? (Ep. 1931)
01:04:14
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This is an iHeart podcast.
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Pat Fitz Morris
Guaranteed Human new year.
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Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Same extra value meals at McDonald's. Now get a savory sausage McMuffin with.
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Jake Seeley
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Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Welcome in, everybody, to Fantasy Pros. This is the fantasy football podcast. It is me, Joey P, Joe P. Zeppia. And it's time to do some work on 2025. A little post mortem kind of look at where the strategies were, what we can learn going into the 2026 season. And who better to do a case study, a postmortem with than Jake Seeley, my good pal from the athletic and my patty cakes, Pat Fitz Morris. Pat was a little late to the show today. We thought maybe he was still in mourning for the packers loss. But Pat, I just want to know, is it, is it too soon? Because I got my cheese grater out here. Is it, is it a little too early or. I thought the grader was really funny. I'm sure you don't find it as amusing.
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Pat Fitz Morris
Yeah, the greater was funny, the greater funny.
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Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
See, I knew you would appreciate the grader.
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Pat Fitz Morris
Yes, I do appreciate the graders, and I don't begrudge Bears fans their joy. I've sort of, as a Packer fan living here behind enemy lines in the Chicagoland area, I've had my fun for the last 25 plus years with this series, so haven't had to hear a lot from Bears fans, but I'm hearing from them now. And yeah, they're, they're turning me into a Rams fan, Joe.
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Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Something we never thought possible. Do you like the, the, the tension, rivalry building? I mean, Ben Johnson walked in there and in this press conference, he was talking crap with the packers and then after the game, obviously talking crap. You know, we're in this era where, you know, I love the sportsmanship. It's fun when everybody's exchanging jerseys at the end of games. But there's something also kind of fun about two teams in the same division that don't like each other. That kind of, you know, back in the old days, rivalry Stu, we don't have as much of. And I feel like I'm kind of here for it. Are you here for it, too, as a Packers fan who's really, you know, got their finger on the pulse of it?
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Pat Fitz Morris
Yeah. I mean, if Ben Johnson wants to go down that road, and it appears he does, I know now that both packers fans and Lions fans Hate him pretty much. And you know, Matt LaFleur has friends around the league, I'm sure who are seeing this and probably would like to stick it to Ben Johnson as a result. So, yeah, if he wants to do it, that's fine, but you know, I'm not a Ben Johnson fan these days. So. Coach, he's a good coach without question. I mean, he made some pretty aggressive fourth down decisions in that game that didn't really work out for him and his team bailed him out. So, yeah, I mean it's, it's fun for sure, but it's like for the last 30 years show, the Bears haven't even been the packers chief rival. It's been the Vikings. And I mean, I hate to say it, but like, packers fans felt that the Bears were just sort of beneath them and like, so was the packers dominance of the series for such a long time. But oh yeah, I think the Bears are back on top now as the packers chief rivals.
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Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Oh, well, good. That's good for the NFL. Jake Seeley sitting here hanging out. Listen to Pat's therapy session here a little bit. What was your favorite game of the weekend? Because it was a lot of good football on wild card weekend. This was a fun weekend of NFL.
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Jake Seeley
From beginning to end, the Rams. But just like my shirt says Pat, optimistic, prime. Everything is probably going to be okay. Just know that you'll be all right. You don't have to remember the good days and like that's what every coping mechanism is. And like, oh, we used to dominate and you were just a peon in our division. And no, look, hey, it's their time. Enjoy it. Enjoy the fact that they're actually relevant again because you can bring back your rivalry, the longest standing rivalry that didn't mean nothing for the longest time. But yes, I enjoyed both those, actually, the first three games. But it's just from beginning to end. The Rams I felt was more entertaining from the jump. Like those other two games. You kind of really had to wait till the third and fourth quarter for it to get going. But I did enjoy my friend who is a Bears fan who lived in that area and grew up, he's Bears, Bulls, Blackhawks, everything. Bears. I said Bears, the Cubs. And he sent the video and him and his son are standing there and they're like, oh my God, this is this all over again. I don't. I remember this. I knew exactly what he was talking about. They were talk about the commanders the last second play and they're like, here we go again.
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Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
It's gonna happen and then it didn't.
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Jake Seeley
And they're like, they're like yay. Because the wife was already in bed like, like silently cheering and it was great.
- [04:30]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Yeah, it was a late night for the Bears and their fans and it'll be a late night for us here too as we record this show again. Let's get after gentlemen, let's take a look at some of the 2020 A 2025 ADP and take a look at some first round, some wide receiver here. Chatter Jamar Chase was the consensus 101. Justin Jefferson, C.D. lamb, Aman Ross, St. Brown. You had Malik Neighbors get injured, Nico Collins, they were all well outside the 20 most common players that were on championship rosters, which is odd because you know Jamar Chase, great player. You would have thought I'm on Ross St. Brown, who was so steady most of the year too, that he would have been on more championship rosters. So in the top 75 percentile, right? Only two wide receivers made that list. It was Jamar chase who was 25% rostered on championship teams. Almond Ross and Brown 47. And of the six first round running backs drafted on the flip side, Bijan Robinson, Christian McAffrey, Derrick Henry all cracked the top 12. So here's a question for you. I want to start with is hero RB strategy officially now the superior strategy going into 2026? Pat when you're thinking about this approach of volume is king. We love the carries. Some of the quarterback play was obviously less than thrilling due to injury and other issues. Do you think there might be an overcompensation towards hero RB or is Hero RB maybe the new path in 2026?
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Pat Fitz Morris
Pat I do think we're going to get a lot of people going for the hero RB strategy, Joe, if they have the opportunity. Because we saw Bijan Robinson kind of carry teams down the stretch. I mean, he absolutely carried teams in the fantasy playoffs. Christian McCaffrey A pretty good run late. James Cook was was piling up points. The question is really whether there are enough running backs for people to enact the hero RB strategy. Yes, Bijan Robinson, Jameer Gibbs, Christian McCaffrey, if you're willing to make the health bets, possibly Jonathan Taylor, although we'll see what it looks like with the Colts quarterbacks. But beyond that, how many sure things are there really? Like, James Cook had a career season, maybe he can repeat it. Devon Hn pretty steady, but maybe you worry about his durability. And after that, I mean, we're talking about projecting leaps for Ashton Gentino Marion Hampton waiting to see where Breece hall ends up in free agency. There are a lot of questions. So that will be a preferred strategy, but it's just not a strategy that all 12 teams in a 12 team league are going to be able to use.
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Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
And Jake, obviously a lot of the strategy has to do with what spot you're drafting in, right? So obviously at the very top you're going to get guys like Bijan, you're going to get Jameer Gibbs up there, you'll probably get CMC despite the incredibly high workload. And now he's advancing in the playoffs another round. So we could have that conversation here if you want to as well. But the Hero RB strategy versus the 0 RB strategy, one that you know was highly debated this year, like every single season. What's your approach next year when you're looking at first round? Would you rather have a shot at one of those guys at the very top at the running back class or the guys at wide receiver like the chases and maybe a bounce back from a guy like Jefferson, but you're looking at Pukinaku and guys like that the.
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Jake Seeley
Same way I've always done it, Joe, as you know, since I've met you and been in this industry, it's been what we had originally termed. I say we. There's somebody that works in New York that's kind of in the industry but somewhat the GST owner Chris, as everybody knows, Bellcow rb. So obviously Hero RB is the much better, cooler way to say it because it makes sense with the 0rb, but that's the way I've always played it. That being said, it's partly tongue in cheek of that's how I've always done it. You've known that I've always been I want a running back in the first round, if not the second round. I've always played the Hero rb, Bell Cow rb. I want that production every single week, blah blah blah. But the most important part here is what just Pat said. Like sometimes you're going to have to pivot. We have a show. Look, man of the company. We have another show, Joe, that you should watch that we're on. When we talk about the first round, way too early for next year. I'll give everybody a hint if you go check out that show. My first five picks are not running backs. They are not even half running backs to give you an idea because sometimes you have to pivot and have to see what's available. So yes, I agree with Pat is that more people are coming to it. More people are coming to the right way to do things. No, but everybody's coming along, which means you might have to adjust because if a lot of people are taking running backs in the first round next year and they doubled down in the second and now we've turned into. From hero, RB into. Some teams are saying now I want to double down and whatever you want to call that double RB or whatever it is, you're not going to be able to, or else you're going to force yourself into a poor return on value, as Pat was kind of alluding to there. So, yeah, we could definitely look at some of these running backs, but you could also go the other way with it and say, yeah, okay, Jameer Gibbs, which I think we're about to talk about him in a specific way, but, you know, yeah, he was bell Cowie and he was hero until the end of the season and then he wasn't a hero, so it could go the other way too. So I'm always going to try and get a running back with that kind of workload in the first two rounds, but I'm not. I've started drafts, Joe, you've been in leagues with me. I've been in leagues where I've gone three straight wide receivers. Not because I wanted to, that's not how I ever want to play, but because the value was there.
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Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Right. See, I'm of the same mind. I want the player, the value that I think is going to give me the best return position kind of be damned. I want the best player for fantasy, I think all around.
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Jake Seeley
Rpv, running back.
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Cool.
- [09:56]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Rpv, right. That's what I want. I want the guy that's going to push me forward. Black Book 101. Right. And then I'll worry about filling out my roster later. I think often people look like I gotta have this position. No, you don't. What you got to have is great talent. And then through the waiver wire, through trades, through evolution of just benching your. Drafting your bench, rather, excuse me, where you're trying to get talent on your bench that can fill some of those tight end spots for you. Like, I don't have to take Trey McBride first round if you don't want to. We'll get to all that conversation. A lot of good talk here. And that show that we're doing with Erickson too, about that first round is going to be a lit one too. So make sure you check that one out here on the channel that's coming soon. Question number two. For you guys. So Saquon Barkley was a guy that I was telling everybody, look, I presented all the data on Saquon Barkley. Anybody who had over 400 carries the next year in the last 25 seasons did not finish as an RB1 the next year. And nobody wanted to hear me and saquon Barkley finishes RB14. Okay, so everyone was mad at me saying he's not a first round pick. It's not a first round pick. So here we go. We have 413 touches just in the regular season for Christian McCaffrey. He led all running backs in touches here with 413. Then Christian McCaffrey now goes into the playoffs and we're obviously going to add not one round but now a second round of playoff touches to Christian McCaffrey's workload the last time this happened, right? He had 417 touches a couple years ago going through the super bowl, losing the super bowl the next year. We know what happened with the injuries. He's going to be 30 next year. Jake, is Christian McCaffrey a guy that people should be looking at as a first round pick next year. Forget number one overall where I'm sure a lot of people will just have him ranked as a 30 year old running back coming off a 400 plus touch season. I don't even want him in the first round. What are your thoughts?
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Jake Seeley
And I knew you were going to come with this and we'll talk. I want to save some of it for that first round draft because I will still have Christian McCaffrey in the first round but as I had him this year is there was an argument for him to be number one but you have to associate some of the risk. I know everybody who took them one or took them two like victory lapping and that's cool but there's still risk involved and that's why I wouldn't have him as the first running back. Argument that I wouldn't even have him the second running back because of what you're bringing up. And you know I'm saying this tongue in cheek to Joe here because of the curse of the 370. I didn't know that that would also mean it's the Eagles worst offense since 2021 and the first time outside the top seven. I didn't know it was going to be Devontae Smith's worst points per game since his rookie year. I didn't know it was going to be A.J. brown's worst year as an Eagle. I didn't know it was going to be hurts worst season as a starter for the Eagles. I say all that tongue in cheek to say it was an Eagles collapse. You are right Joe, but I think part of it was also the fact it was an Eagles collapse. Like there was still the Barkley in the second half of the season and maybe that's a testament to the 370 is that they start off slower because we started to see more of the regular Barkley in the second half. Obviously it wasn't last year but what a surprise coming off career seasons. People don't repeat their career seasons and that's where I say the risk of Christian McCaffrey. But we play this game on the other side. I know that's not what you're saying, but the other side of it, well, Derek Henry, when is he going to stop? When is he going to stop? And he's not stopping. So I know it's not the touches of 370 for Derrick Henry. There was some seasons where he got in there, I think once or very close to twice. But the point is is like we could play that game all day long. And you're definitely right Joe. There is a. There is. Let's look at it both ways. Not mutually exclusive to say there's a significant risk with the 370 at the same time. It doesn't mean it's a guaranteed to happen. So I will take Christian McCaffrey, but because of that associated risk I wouldn't take him in the first four or five picks of the first round next year.
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Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
All right, Pat, talk to me about the age of McCaffrey, the touches, the age of Derrick Henry and whether you feel more comfortable with a Jameer Gibbs selection in the first round or one of the top three running backs off the board or a CMC or even a Derrick Henry, the ageless wonder.
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Pat Fitz Morris
I love everything that Jake just said about the risk associated with McAffrey and especially that maybe Barkley's fall off this year was really more of an Eagles problem than Saquon Barkley problem because Saquon still looks good to me. You know, not quite as many breakaway runs as he had in 2024, but like still very much the same player he was or close to it. I agree with you though, Joe, that we do have to sort of bake in that injury risk with Christian McCaffrey, but we were kind of doing that this year. I thought like the middle of the first round was more my sweet spot for McCaffrey than the early first round. But I know a lot of some of the sharpest fantasy analysts in the game. We're willing to take McCaffrey top three because of what he could do. And basically, if you're getting a healthy Christian McCaffrey, he is going to give you an avalanche of fantasy points. That's just how it is. And I what's kind of Inconceivable is that McCaffrey would come out next year, play basically the same role and be putting up eight or nine fantasy points a game. It's just not going to happen with him in that offense. So yes, there's risk. Wouldn't be surprised if after a good run out in 2025, we got some Christian McCaffrey health issues in 2026. But I'm still, yeah, I'm still willing to take him in the first round. He's number three. He's RB3 for me, by the way.
- [15:17]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Yeah, I look and I understand that ranking. I get the respect of it. But I'm just gonna roll through this again. This was just carry numbers, not even touches. This was just carries. I know the game was a little different in the early 2000s than it is now and it's evolved in the running back position. Very heavy with receptions. But it's the wear and tear and now that the fact that McCaffrey is advancing further into the playoffs again, I'm just throwing this out there. I tweeted it last year. Gotta run through it. Ready? Here he goes. It's fun for all the kids and boys and girls at home. DeMarco Murray, 2014, he did it next he was over 436 carries. The next year he was RB15 after being RB2. Eddie George, 431 carries, RB3 to RB21. Sean Alexander, league MVP 2005. 430 carries. He was RB1 the next year. RB30. Larry Johnson, Jamal Lewis, Corey Dillon, Edur and James Curtis Martin, Aran Foster, Amman Green, Jamal Lewis again, none of those guys finished as an RB one the next year. Some of them got hurt the next year. You see finishes as RB33 for Eder and James. Hall of Famer Curtis Martin went from RB4 to RB29. The Wear and tear is real the next season. These guys don't respond the same way physically. And it's not just about like the guys who are like one off written into the ground. We're talking hall of Famers here. We're talking Edger and James and Curtis Martin, some of the all time greats and Saquon you could talk about in that same pantheon, potentially in a couple years. Right? So it's, it's, it's one of those things where we don't want to admit it to ourselves, but it's staring at us in the face, the data. And the data is just not on the side of Christian McCaffrey. So for me, spoiler alert, he might not even be in my first round. You'll have to tune into that other show to find out before we get to the next question on my list. I got 10, we got two down already. I want to shout out to our sponsor of our show here. And of course it is Hard Rock Bet. And if you haven't already downloaded Hard Rock Bet, well, what the heck are you waiting for? Get on that, download the Hard Rock Bet app. You bet five bucks. You get 150 in bonus bets when you hit. So you get your winnings plus 150 in bonus bets. And, and of course now with the playoffs going on, hot times here going on. It's also the only legal sports book in the state of Florida. And of course they're the official sports betting partner of the Jaguars. Rip the Buccaneers, rip the Heat, the Magic and the Panthers. Not those Panthers. The, the hockey ones. And look, fantasy season might be over, but there's still plenty of time to get in on the action. And if football's not your thing and NBA is, well cool, you can go out and bet NBA as well. You can make all your picks and of course you can do same game parlays for of the games whether it's NBA or NFL or even college football championship coming up around the corner. But you can't do it if you don't download the hard rock bet. So again, bet five bucks, get 150 in bonus bets. Use the SGPs, use all the promos you all of the boosts that they give you over on Hard Rock Bet. But you can't use any of it if you don't download the app. So download Hard Rock BET Sportsbook today. Payable and bonus bets Not a cash offer offered by the Seminole Tribe of Florida and Florida offered by Seminole hard Rock Digital LLC in other states must be 21 plus in physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee or Virginia. Play terms and conditions apply. Concern about gambling in Florida, call 1833 play wise in Indiana, if you or someone you know has a gambling problem wants help, call 1-800-9 with it gambling problem, call 1-800- gambler in Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia.
- [18:35]
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- [19:46]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Business Next question on my list here, number three for the boys. I want to talk about the four most common wide receivers on championship teams. Their names were Puka, Nakua, Jackson Smith and Jigba. Chris Olave, who was wide receiver 33 by the way in ADP, ended up as wide receiver 6 and 1. George Pickens, wide receiver 26 in terms of draft stock, finished as wide receiver 4. So that return on investment is always huge. There was nobody I know who was a bigger supporter of JSN going into the season than you. Jake Seeley Credit to Jake Seeley. It's a little clap for Jake, okay? He talked about it more than anybody else and I want to give you credit for that one. So going into this coming year, where do you kind of have JSN ranked? Is he the number one wide receiver on your board going into this year?
- [20:35]
Jake Seeley
He is not. It won't be. Okay, check out that other show. But he is in the conversation of it's the tier one of wide receivers and I don't want to spoil too much from that first round that we're going to be talking about. So another plug for it. But I have three this year and I have three wide receivers that if you want to argue for Smith and Jaba, cool, I have no problem with it. I would go Puka Nakua and I think a lot of it is, you know, well, isn't Matthew Stafford next year? Is Matthew Stafford healthy? But we've played that whole game with Matthew Stafford being healthy this year we know the injury risk association with a lot of players. I don't like to play the injury risk game. When I do my projections for the athletic, I do 17 games for everybody unless they're specifically missing time to start the season. Because falling into that trap is actually more of a trap than anything is trying to predict injuries. So I just bring that to say, like if Stafford is the week one quarterback next year, I'm sticking with Nakua because with or without Devontae Adams, Nakua was dominant. Jackson, Smith and Jigba in the conversation. Jamar Chase, you want to throw him in that conversation? No problem. Although I think again we'll talk about it more on that show. I think there's more of a conversation that Chase might not be there, but he's definitively the third for me. So if you want to go jsn, cool. I used to just brought it up. I was the biggest JSN guy. But also let's understand it's still Sam Darnold versus Matthew Stafford and I'm going to take Matthew Stafford as my quarterback for Fuka Nakua. I think the only thing you could say for injury risk is does it not feel like Nakua is turning into Julio Jones like every single oh my God, is he going to make it through the game? He just got banged up again. He just went to the sideline again. So if you want to argue for JSN in that facet, I'm okay with it.
- [22:06]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
You know what? I think that is a very cogent argument for JSN to be honest. And it's not the JSN doesn't play hard, but it's just the style of play, the physicality that Puka plays with. It's great. You love it. If you're a football fan, you don't love Puka De Kuh. There's something wrong with you. Pat. I find it hard to even for myself debate this question yet because until we know the status of Matthew Stafford, I think the status of Puka, KUA or JSN is a conversation we can kind of almost table I want to jump to the other one which is Pickens and Olave coming off great seasons, great return on investment. Are those guys that are sniffing the top 10 even in your wide receiver rankings going into next year?
- [22:42]
Pat Fitz Morris
Sniffing is the appropriate term. I've got Pickens wide receiver 11 and Olave wide receiver 13 and Pickens will have to see. He was on a one year contract with the Cowboys so his his contract is up. I feel like there's A pretty good chance the Cowboys tag him and keep him around. And if the situation is the same, I think that's where he belongs. Maybe the president presence of CD Lam keeps him from being a top five guy, but he showed he can produce even with CD Lam around. I think we feel good about that offense and that quarterback otherwise. And I feel pretty good about Chris Olave, who was always kind of a guy I was too far ahead of in past years. And this year it kind of finally paid off in the leagues where I invested. I think it's great that we can feel pretty good about Tyler Schuck because he.
- [23:33]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Yeah, I agree.
- [23:34]
Pat Fitz Morris
He turned out to be a playmaker at the end of the season. Slow start for Olave because Spencer Rattler really wasn't willing to challenge defenses downfield. But Tyler Schuck was playing in a pretty soft division. So as long as Chris Olave can dodge the concussion problems, and that was a big thing that was holding down his ADP in 2025, I think we can feel good about him because I don't think there's any question about Chris Olave's talent.
- [24:03]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
I feel like Shuck got better every week, Pat. Yeah, you watch him. I thought every week he made not giant improvements, but incremental ones every week. So by the end there was actually confidence. I remember we had some shows toward the end when they were in the playoff shows talking about streaming quarterbacks, like, hey, Tyler Shuck should be a guy you should be thinking about right now. And some of the matchups he had that were softer going into the end of the season.
- [24:25]
Pat Fitz Morris
If you're going to get a rookie quarterback, Joe, make sure it's a 26 year old rookie quarterback. That is the secret, you know.
- [24:31]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Well, Pat, what have we learned too? Like, some of these kids that come out at 20, 21 years old are, are just children playing a men's game and they're getting exposed a lot of times and sometimes you see these guys and they lose confidence and, and it takes them years to get it back like a Sam Darnold or sometimes they never get it back. So I think there's, there's certainly the, the haha funniness of like, you know, guy comes in the league and he's 25 years. Like Carson Beck is going to be, what, 37 when he comes into the NFL. Like he's the same age as Bryce Young is, right? Who's. Bryce Young's been playing in the NFL for a few years now. And I don't think Carson Beck is an NFL prospect. Personally, like, from watching him play over the years, I know he's won everywhere he's gone. That's great. I just don't see being an NFL quarterback. But I think there is something to be said for some of these kids getting a little bit more seasoning at the high college football level before they come to the NFL. And I do think there's something to be said for them sitting and learning a year regardless and taking some time with the clipboard before they just get thrown into the fire. Not everybody is going to be Jaden Daniels from the jump. Not Everybody's gonna be C.J. stroud from day one. Like, it's just not gonna happen for everybody. And I think we need to reprogram our brains for that. And I don't feel like the NFL organizations in the front office have yet.
- [25:41]
Pat Fitz Morris
Bo Nix and Brock Purdy are two really good examples of guys who had a lot of college playing experience and came into the league and made a surprisingly smooth transition. I mean, brock Purdy was Mr. Irrelevant and there was no one who liked Bo Nicks as a prospect. And you know, people were making fun of the Broncos for taking him, what, 12th overall, so. And yet those guys had a pretty smooth transition. I don't know, their ceilings might not be as high as some of the top prospects who have played fewer college games, but it did sort of help them make that transition. I think we got a little, a little of that with Tyler Shock.
- [26:17]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Speaking of Brock Purdy, QB10 and ADP was basically on waivers a lot of the season. Drake May, Pat, a guy that we loved going into the season, he was QB16. I think you and I were the two highest people on Drake May, he finished as QB2 on the season. Josh Allen obviously still number one. But Lamar Jackson battled injuries. Jalen Hurts was disappointing. Another QB that we saw that we loved. I know Debro and I were super in on. We fought in every league over Dak Prescott. He finishes QB5. He was drafted basically as QB11 or 12. Matthew Stafford, people didn't want to touch, right? Because of the back injury. Nobody wanted to go near Matthew Stafford. He's QB23. Well, he might be MVP of the league. He was QB3 in terms of finish. So will we see a pivot next year based on the maze and based on Matthew Stafford and Dak Prescott to a much stronger late round QB strategy in 2026?
- [27:13]
Pat Fitz Morris
Pat I think we will because of the way the elite quarterback strategy backfired on people. Josh Allen was really the only one who paid off at his price? Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, Jaden Daniels, Jalen Hurts who stopped giving us all that rushing goodness this year and not he still had decent rushing numbers but after four straight years of double digit touchdowns to not get there sort of kneecapped his value a little bit. Joe, I mean I've always thought that was maybe one of the biggest edges and drafts you can have is to find a good mid round quarterback who can give you something approaching QB1 level production and just hammer running back and wide receiver in those early rounds. And this year was for you and I, Drake May was that guy and it really paid off. You know my, my Drake May teams generally went pretty deep into the playoffs if not winning leagues. The key is to find next year's Drake May though, because Drake May is going to be expensive next year. Now he's going to be considered an elite quarterback. Tyler Schuck is one of those guys I'm taking a hard look at as a mid round value. Malik Willis will be one who's going to be a free agent and is going to sign somewhere and probably be a Week 1 starter in 2026. Those are the types of players I'm looking at to try to capitalize on that mid round quarterback advantage.
- [28:39]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Jake on the inverse because early QB didn't work out for people. Will there be extreme value on Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson going later than they should because of the talent that they have. Is this an interesting time to take a look at where those guys might be and are you willing maybe if maybe you were more of a oh you know I'll let quarterback follow me late but all of a sudden if a Joe Burrow slips or or Lamar Jackson slips to you or maybe even Jalen hurts depending on what they retool this off season and what that looks like. Is there extreme opportunity in 2026 on some of those big time QBs who aren't going to have nearly the big time draft capital attached to them?
- [29:16]
Jake Seeley
I think there's an argument for it. I mean also there's a way to look at the quarterback position as a whole. And you know what the real key here is? Picking the right quarterbacks to stay healthy. There you go everybody. There's your draft tip because you can look at it too for the late round quarterbacks. You know May was QB12 so a fringe QB1, but that still meant late rounds. Kyler went right before him, hurt Justin Fields blew up. That's a massive miss of a season Herbert season and hurt Jared Goff and season by his standards. Caleb Williams, he was consistent but not consistently great. Look, Pat's boy Jordan love wasn't good. J.J. mcCarthy was the biggest bust of all busts for people taking late round quarterbacks. So I'm not saying this to like come back at your guys argument. I'm just saying like yeah we can talk about the greatness of Drake Mays and all that type of stuff but Baker Mayfield was that guy the year before and Baker Mayfield's season kind of went sideways also because of injury. But all that being said is there's an argument to always take quarterbacks late. The real key here is, I know I said it tongue in cheek but like take two shots if you're going to wait late because we could talk about the great hits but a lot of people out there watching this took some of these shots and even went over two on their two shots. So your biggest point in your question there at the beginning is I think there's a chance that you could make the argument to go get a Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hurts, Joe Burrow, a healthy Jaden Daniels, all these guys that might like we see in our leagues and I'm not going to be like oh expert leagues. We all hate saying expert leagues but because quarterbacks last so long in our leagues that when you see Jaden Daniels sitting there in the fifth, sixth round it's like well now I'm, now the advantage is there to take that risk because of what happens if he's healthy for the entire season, a healthy Joe Burrow. So yeah, I do think there will be the opportunity. It just really kind of depends on your league too of whether or not they'll be willing to wait on quarterbacks. Because we know this, we talk to people every single year who still see quarterbacks going in the second round.
- [31:04]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
It will be more complicated in super flex leagues than ever before.
- [31:08]
Jake Seeley
I can tell you that there's going to be strategies all over the place this year.
- [31:10]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Yes there are. There's going to be, hey look, this strategy this year, the right one turned out to be take some really good running backs and then get some decent quarterbacks. The strategy that we saw win a lot of those leagues where they were heavy RB and then kind of took shots later on qb that typically got you the top of the mountain. But I don't know if that repeats necessarily and it's going to be fascinating to see what that first round looks like because the confidence has been shaken for a lot of people. Does it build back up over the summer or does it become more of a problem as people start to really get concerned? Man, more injuries for Lamar. Yeah. And Jordan Love. That's two years in a row where he missed time with injuries. The questions will just continue to pile up there. And Joe Burrow, another guy too, who's had a checkered injury pass in his career. Fascinating where those values are going to be in those strategies. Like you said, all over the place. Good strategy for you if you're wagering this weekend is to make sure that you are using the Betting Pros tools and you can get Betting Pros Premium tools right now. When you download the Betting Pros app and use the promo code FP1 month, it gets you one month for free of the same game parlay tool, the Prop Bet Analyzer, the prize picks Prop Bet cheat sheet. That's not easy to say, folks, but I said it and you could download the Betting Pros app right now on iOS or Android. Use the premium tools when you plug in FP1 month. Use the tools. Don't be a tool. Bet smarter, not harder with Betting pros. Ashton Genti, one of the latest guys in the long line of rookies that get overrated at times. He was the hundredth most common player on all championship teams, but he finished as just RB14 and half PPR and he was drafted as the 10th overall as RB6 and ADP. A disappointing rookie season. But Pat, we're going to have a new head coach, most likely new quarterback, new look for the Raiders. I know it's early in this question, but does that give you optimism that Ashton Genti maybe kind of like the Bijan Robinson thing a couple of years ago? We were just a year early to the dance.
- [33:00]
Pat Fitz Morris
It gives me a lot of optimism, Joe and I. I still think there's. It might have worked out for Ashton Genti this year had the Raiders not had the problems they had with their offensive line. We didn't expect it to be a good offensive line, but then they lost Colton Miller, their best offensive linemen. They lost Johnson, Powers, Jackson or excuse me, Jackson, Powers Jackson, Powers John. Sorry. Yeah, so like they had injury problems.
- [33:29]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Up front and Jackson, Powers Jackson was I think the sixth member of the Jackson five. Right. He was cut out then they ended up being five members.
- [33:37]
Pat Fitz Morris
I thought that was our seventh president. No, never mind that.
- [33:40]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
I also after Chester Arthur, I think something like that.
- [33:45]
Pat Fitz Morris
So I think Genty showed us what we wanted to see from him as far as creativity and, you know, just moves and the ability to do something with not a lot of Help because he was near the bottom of the league in yards before contact like he was for a while. I think he had like negative yards before contact per carry. And it's going to be a lot better. It's going to be. Fernando Mendoza is going to be the quarterback for the Las Vegas Raiders in 2026. They're going to go out and they're going to hire a new offensive minded head coach to make this all come together with the talent they have. Mendoza, Genti, Brock Bowers. They need a chef who can stir that pot and get it to simmer nicely. So I think things are going to be looking up for him. I've got him ranked RB7 for next year.
- [34:39]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Okay, RB7. Jake, are you about that range when it comes to Ash and Genti going into next year? I know it's early. We don't know the, the coach situation, the offense situation, but we do know the talent of Genti and we know that sometimes we're just, like I said, a little bit too anxious to get in there. Bijan Robinson, I keep going back to that because that's a perfect example, right? We, we were like, hey, it's gonna be. Bijan's gonna be great. And then it just didn't quite happen. Not all his fault. Some of that was the coaching and the use and stupid Arthur Smith being, well, stupid. And now, now Ash and Genti hopefully will be in a better scenario. And with a quarterback that can help move the offense, move the chains a little bit. What could that mean for Genti's value going into this year? Could he be an extreme value?
- [35:18]
Jake Seeley
Jake, I don't know about extreme value because as, and this isn't like the Jazz anything like I'm bringing this up to be as one of the lower people on Genti this year. I wasn't low enough. Like nobody was low enough. And I think we all even people. Like on my side of things was in the argument of like the Raiders offense. Nobody expected the offensive line to be that bad. I was nodding when Pat, Fat Pat said that. Before that, I think it was through week five or six, over 100. It was 110% ish of his yards were after contact because he was negative yards per cut. Like that's how insane it was to think about. Chase Brown was right there with him, but I think, I think it was like 101%. But to bring up his point of how bad the offensive line is. So yes, there should be more health, but there's a lot of ifs with this team. I know Pat said we'll expect the quarterback to be Fernando Mendoza, but what if the jets come with three first rounders and they drop back and stash Dante Moore for next year? So I'm just saying there's a lot of ifs here where I could still see Genti being at the back end of RB1 territory for next year, depending on what comes out of this. The point about him being RB7 for where Pat has him. Yeah, I can see that because now you put him in the group of A. Jonathan Taylor, maybe a healthy Josh Jake with Saquon, like those kind of names, I would still consider him there. He just, as of today, might be more on the back half because there are so many ifs. Like Jonathan Taylor is Daniel Jones, is he back? Cool, we're happy. If not. But like, there's multiple ifs with the Raiders. So I just, as of right now, I just think he's a little bit more risky than the other names. But I could see a path to him pushing in that value of being kind of a fringe first rounder before it's all said and done, just on.
- [36:50]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Principle of age, I'd be taking Genti over Jacobs. And I also think that, as you said, quantity is great, especially the running back position. But the quality of the quantity he got in 2025 was so poor because the offensive line was so bad that you've got to make sure that there's enough adjustments there where that can start to improve a little bit. Otherwise it does get capped again. And we don't want Genti capped. We want him to get unleashed. Let's talk about the tight end position. Question Number six for you. Only three tight ends were featured in ten of championship winning rosters. Their names, to no one's surprise, Trey McBride, George Kittle, and then Harold Fannin Jr. Who really came on strong. So obviously the Kittle injury. Rip George. We love George Kittle. Even if you don't like the 49ers, you gotta love George Kittle. He's just a great guy. He's gonna have that Achilles tear. You're not gonna see him till maybe November if you're. I mean, like, I don't care. Anybody tells you nine months, sure, whatever. He tore his Achilles. He's a tight end. This is gonna be really tough. His body's been breaking down a little bit on him already. So I am very skeptical of his 2026 value and he's probably going to not be on my board at all. Whereas Trey McBride is going to be that extreme End right, Jake, where people are going to say is he a first round pick? Because the rest of this position now it was Bowers coming off an injury riddled season. Kittle's not in that conversation anymore. Is there a really good argument, Jake, for Trey McBride in that first round based simply off of what the rest of position looks like or instead are we going to look for guys like Harold Fannin Jr. Or the next guy to pop instead the way Tyler Warren was tight end 10 and had a great season up until obviously injuries destroyed the Colts.
- [38:23]
Jake Seeley
So I, I have the same answer every single year but I'm going to pivot it a little bit because I think people are tired. If you've heard me on this show, on Pat Mayo show like always, like I am not taking a tight end early in the first round or even second round, most likely second round unless it's the fringe turn and I could take them because I know I'm picking again real quickly because if they don't produce these elite seasons and it's just you can still be, and I brought this up with Kelsey all the time, you can still be the number one tight end but because the gap isn't big enough, you've lost the value. So I'm like, that's my answer. It's always been my answer, but I'm okay with it. Here's what I'm going to say and we're going to change. My answer is that if you want to do it, because if you don't, here's the answer of what not to do. Do not take a tight end in like the sixth round because that second tier of tight ends there are more misses than hits in their true value. So you should be chasing the fan and you should be chasing the waivers. You should be going in there. But if you can't stomach that, if you can't deal with what a lot of teams have to do with and they're like oh my God, I can't believe I have to pick up another tight end for three weeks. I'm going through this guy, he was a fun streamer but now he's not anymore and blah blah. Harold Fannin was actually waivered twice. That's why I gave him the waiver wire of the year because he, he technically cheated because he got to be the waiver wire twice this year. So if you don't want to do that and if you want to make the argument argument for McBride or even a healthy Bowers, which I think he could come in as a value especially the third round if you want to go down that road. But understand that even if it doesn't give you that position value, you just have the surety of not having to go through with that. I'm completely okay with it. I'm just never going to do it. But I understand the argument for it because you give that safety. I don't have to chase a tight end half the year and deal with this nonsense and waiver and spending my fab and all that type of stuff. So I don't do it. But I can completely understand it. So it's kind of my same answer, but I'm changing it a little bit to kind of like different perspective.
- [40:08]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Well look, from a relative position value standpoint, I haven't run the numbers quite yet on Trey McBride, but I can tell you it's going to be an absurd number.
- [40:14]
Jake Seeley
And so is Kelsey's. But Kelsey's down years which were still tight end one weren't because the next closest was a half point per game and that's the difference.
- [40:23]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
It's going to be crazier Jake and I'll tell you it's going to be much more like the Christian McCaffrey brilliant seasons where on RB1s he was like a 70% advantage over the RB1. It was like having a running back and a half when you had him. I feel like Trey McBride is like having a tight end plus half a flex. That's how good he was this year. But again is it repeatable?
- [40:43]
Jake Seeley
New coach so was Travis kelsey in his 17 point seasons he was three over the next closest and one of those years was Darren Waller's blow up season. But all that being said too, and I know that you're not saying this Joe, but we also needed Jacoby Brissett to unlock Tray McBride. He was not Trey McBride until Jacoby Brissette stepped in at quarterback.
- [41:01]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
What a weird sentence to say. Which I want to get Pat's comments on here too. Talk to me about your Trey McBride status going into 2026 and tight end as a whole. Are you somebody that's also going to be in the late or great tight end or is it just late for you because you don't want to pay the price of the one guy which right now feels like Trey McBride despite the immense talent that is out there, guys like Warren and Bowers, maybe they get a little bit of a value boost potentially here off of like slow finishes to the season.
- [41:32]
Pat Fitz Morris
I absolutely will not be touching Trey McBride in drafts in 2026. He is going to be going near the first round, second round turn and people are going to have the same debates that they had about Travis Kelce five, six years ago or even more recently whether he should be a first round pick. The case you could make for Kelsey back then was that the tight end position was such a sinkhole. It was basically Kelsey Kittle and maybe Mark Andrews. And then you would see guys like Jared Cook pop up as top seven, top eight tight ends. Robert Tunion was a tight end. Three in one of those seasons.
- [42:13]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Yeah, Robert reference. Hold on, let me get. That was 2000 great little for Robert.
- [42:19]
Jake Seeley
Was that the 600 yards and eight touchdown season or is it 800?
- [42:23]
Pat Fitz Morris
Yes. And that was three a three touchdown game in an empty Lambeau Field in the COVID season. Yeah, there were some crazy games there. So you could make that case for Kelsey just because he gave you such a huge advantage at the position over what you were getting. If you waited this year, I don't think you can make that case because of what we got this year with the rookie tight end class. Colston Loveland looks like a superstar. Tyler Warren looks really good. Harold Fannin looks like a star in the making. Sam Laporte is going to be coming back from injury. We finally got a nice Kyle Pittsburgh season again. Tucker Kraft is going to be coming back from injury. And Brian, by the way, my tight end, one Oranda Gadsden. And I still I have Brock Bowers ranked ahead of Trey McBride because I think Trey McBride and people are going to hate me for saying this, I think he's Jason Whitten deluxe, basically. Like I think it's volume, but as far as the. It is, it is. That's a lot of production, but it's not necessarily like a special player. And I think Brock Bowers is a special player. Like he's just a far better athlete than Trey McBride. I'm glad that McBride got it to work out and McBride is a fantastic player. I don't want to totally slam him, but he is not a player I'm going to be looking to draft like late first round, early second round.
- [43:45]
Jake Seeley
Let me try this trade. Pat, let me ask you this. If I told you today, today they're not addressing the wide receiver position and Jacoby Brissette's the quarterback for all of 2026, would that change your opinion on Trey McBride?
- [43:58]
Pat Fitz Morris
No, because we started to see chopper set fall apart a little bit. And I mean like they were just.
- [44:04]
Jake Seeley
What if it's Jameis Winston.
- [44:07]
Pat Fitz Morris
That that would have me more interested. Definitely.
- [44:10]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
You Found a guy. Jake.
- [44:12]
Pat Fitz Morris
Yeah.
- [44:12]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
I mean, I'll say this. I like McBride at 11 and 12. I like him down there.
- [44:17]
Jake Seeley
Save it for the show.
- [44:17]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
You can. Well, yeah, I will, but I mean, I'll give my reasons why and they're. There are multiple. But to Pat's point, I do think we are on the precipice of returning Tucker Craft. You mentioned, I really like Colson Loveland and year two and what he can do in that offense. You saw some flashes of it that playoff game too. Pat saw one too many flashes of it in that playoff game. But Loveland is another guy too, that I have circled there. There's a lot of talent at this position that hasn't been fully unlocked. So I think this might in a way be the year where you can look at it and say, hey, look, if you don't want to pay that McBride price in 2026, there is a ton of young, extremely talented tight ends. You just have to be very careful because all of their situations, and I mean all of them except for maybe Loveland, are in flux. They're in flux with quarterback, they're in flux with coaches potentially. They're in flux with offensive coordinator changes. So you've got to be very careful. And you got to see a little bit in preseason and kind of read the tea leaves a little bit because we don't know what's going to happen with the Indianapolis quarterback situation. We're not sure what the hell is going to go on in Cleveland. All over the place. We're not sure. You know, so Fanning gets affected, Warren gets affected that we already talked about, the Raider situation, Bowers gets affected. So there's not a lot of locks. Now Tucker Kraft might be one of those locks do depending on where he gets ranked. It's gonna be really interesting to see. I want to get to the next question. This kind of leads into this, Pat, which is obviously every single year there's a lot of injuries. And I feel like with the Arizona Cardinals specifically the injury to Marvin Harrison Jr. Kind of shaped, you know, the, the fantasy season because Michael Wilson became a wide receiver. One something that Marvin Harrison Jr. Couldn't do was that the, the one and only situation that really kind of just tore through in terms of injuries for you that was like so mind blowing where an injury opened up, an opportunity for a player or an injury just decided a season because really this year I think more than any other, they were early injuries, they were massive injuries. It was Malik Neighbors one week, it was another guy another week. Every Week it was Joe Burrow. Massive superstars in the first six weeks of the season going down and down for the count, some of them. So of all those injuries, which one shaped the fantasy football season the most for you in 2025, besides Michael Wilson? Because I think that's the easy one. Pat.
- [46:32]
Pat Fitz Morris
Yeah, I don't know if we had another great case for that. Like one that comes to mind is George Pickens when CD Lamb went down, and I wondered, I wondered if Pickens could be an alpha receiver when Lamb went down. And Pickens was absolutely an alpha receiver. And then he continued to produce after CD Lamb came back. So that's one for sure. But there were so many instances where a player got hurt and we didn't really see anyone pick up the slack. I mean, Malik Neighbors goes down and Wandell Robinson has a few good games where he pops. Tucker Kraft was a crusher of an injury for people who felt like they had a real ace up their sleeve at tight end. But, you know, Luke Musgrave did not become the answer at tight end even though people were hoping in waivers. It was maybe just a one for one replacement or something close. No, not at all. So I'm having a hard time thinking of another situation where someone seized their opportunity to the extent that, or maybe negatively.
- [47:33]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
I'll give you a for instance here. Jake Daniel Jones injury, I mean it brought down the Jonathan Taylor, the Michael Pittman value. It brought down the Tyler Warren value. I mean that injury, first the broken leg and then obviously the season ending injury there. That to me was one that shaped everything because the Colts were flying high, they were an eight win team and then did they win like one more game the rest of the season? I'm trying to remember off the top of my head. It was brutal for them. That was one that shaped it in a negative way. So Jake, in a positive or negative way, what injury kind of shaped the 2025 fantasy landscape for.
- [48:02]
Jake Seeley
Yeah, I was going to bring that up. I mean, we talked about Joe Burrow, we saw what that did to the entire Bengals offense and Jake Browning was supposed to pick up where he left off two years ago. And that did not like. So that injury, you could talk about the Buccaneers as a whole, from Baker Mayfield to Mike Evans to Chris Godwin to like that was in flux the entire year. But I think the biggest one that. Pat, you're overlooking here, and I know you're going to be like, dang it, I should have known this off the top of my head. Rico Dowdle stepping in for Chuba Hubbard, like to have two games, possibly the two biggest performances back to back weeks in a long time, to score like 60 plus almost 70 points. And then he didn't go away. He turned that backfield into for us. And why I said like this was good and bad. It was good for Rico Daddle. And then when Chuba Hubbard was back and healthy, it became bad because it turned into the freaking Seahawks. And everybody else where it's like, who's it going to be this week? And now Rico Daddle is like, I can't believe my touches. At the end of the year, I got to go somewhere and find a contract where I get what I deserve. Good luck with that. But I think that that backfield ever since that Chuba Hubbard injury was the biggest like non Michael Wilson impact injury that I could think of.
- [49:07]
Pat Fitz Morris
It's funny, I didn't even remember Chuba Hubbard getting hurt. I always kind of thought it was just on the merits, but it kind of took a while for it to be on the merits that they kept Rico as the main back. But yes, week six and week seven, Chuba missed those games. That's when Dowdle popped. Yeah.
- [49:23]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
All right, so that brings us to my next question. God, you guys are so good at this. Leave me right from question to question. Question number eight here. Was it a good year when you look at the championship roster percentage for waiver wire? Because outside of Michael Wilson, Rico Dowdle, to me it was a constant waiver wire assault where everybody was just throwing fab all over the place and everybody trying to see if anything stuck. And I feel like outside of those two guys in particular, maybe you can make a case for, you know, if you picked up a Drake May off the waiver wire or something like that, you know, in a shallow leak. It wasn't a great year for waiver wire despite Jake, all of the openings that were presented to so many players, maybe some guys took advantage of him for a week, but it always felt like it was a short lived experience and we were back on the waiver wire the next week of the week after that. Is that the feeling you got as well from 2025?
- [50:14]
Jake Seeley
I know, and it's funny you say that because my initial thinking, I think it comes down to what's your perception of the people out there? Because I know we talk to everybody from 8 to 18 and beyond leagues on this show and people watching it because you and I did the waiver thing the entire year and the way every time we do those five, I mean, we were digging Deep on Monday mornings to make sure they were under 50% on Sleeper, which is even more aggressive than Yahoo. And people are still like, not in my league. Not my. So it really depends because if you go back to like my week one waivers and there's names that were on championship rosters, there's names that were out there for the entire season, starters that people could have you bring up. Drake May wasn't drafted in all the leagues that he was in. Trevor Lawrence at quarterback if he waited in the second half of his season. So if you're looking at your average leagues, and I hate to use that because it sounds like we're talking down, but it's not like your average office.
- [51:03]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Leagues, work, friends, everyone's UCU condescending, I know.
- [51:06]
Jake Seeley
Yeah, Just being super condescending. But like, if you look at it that way. No, because yeah, there were names that you were riding through that the entire year. Common on guy was free everywhere to start the year and he became valuable for most of the season. The wide receivers and all those. Now, if you're talking about what you are where I think you're leaning into kind of like the more aggressive leagues, the 12 teamers that are watching this now, if you're watching this, your answer is no, because you knew all this. All these names were stashed on your rosters. So to your point, Joe, for those people in those type of leagues, yeah, it was like, oh, I got this guy, but I'm already dropping him two weeks later. Jaden Higgins was fun at the middle of the season and then I dropped him three weeks later. Like, that's kind. It definitely depends on the league you were in.
- [51:48]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Yeah, it was to me. Like I said, there's a couple guys that popped. Quarterback was a carousel single quarterback leagues. There were so many injuries that, you know, you were cycling through A lot of these guys like Lawrence, you mentioned some other ones too. They ended up being pretty damn good. But pat, to me, it was kind of lackluster. Not just for waiver wires, but also for sleepers. I went back and looked at the 2025 sleeper rankings right outside of Jakori, Crosky, Merritt, who by the end of draft season, not to me wasn't a sleeper anymore. Like, like, to me that was like, that ship has sailed. Kyle Menon guy, Jake said, you know, you're fighting for him unless you were in a league with me, in which case he was already my roster because I drafted him. But Kyle Menon guy, like, there's a couple guys that pop at sleeper lists were bad this year there wasn't a lot of those deep guys that came through and it ended up being a lot of guys that like Parker Washington wasn't really on anybody's radar. Parker Washington was a guy that popped in the latter part of the season. It was more of that style than anybody that we thought that all the good home market information would put us towards. So recap for me real quick your thoughts on that sleeper group as well, because I'm curious what your thoughts were in 2025 and maybe that's just like a weird anomaly in 2026 that changes.
- [52:53]
Pat Fitz Morris
Again, I agree with you. It was a bad year for waivers and having worked on the Fantasy Pro's waiver waiver waiver wire article all season, like one of the things I do on that I have to come up with a waiver wire grade for that week's crop so many times it was like D C minus, just lackluster. And I think we judge a year's worth of waiver pickups by the strength of the running back position. And I think for the running back position to be bountiful in waivers you need injuries to the top guys. We didn't get a lot of long lasting injuries to the top guys that created value for some widely unrostered running back. Just didn't see a lot of that this year. The guys who were kind of there and potential pickups all year were guys like Tyler Algier. Blake Corum was actually one who finally popped down the stretch but did it on a very limited workload. It wasn't like Kyron Williams got hurt and all of a sudden Blake Corum became a star. I just can't think of any instances where a running back down went down and we saw some guy instantly become top five like Alvin Camara went down.
- [54:02]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
But it was short lived. Yeah, there were like a couple weeks and then Juba came back and then like you said turned into Seattle.
- [54:08]
Pat Fitz Morris
Right.
- [54:08]
Jake Seeley
But we did have one where like, like that we didn't get the end Kenneth Gainwell. Kenneth Gainwell was 0% rostered to start the beginning of the year. So like there's one where it wasn't an injury but we did find a running back that was usable.
- [54:20]
Pat Fitz Morris
Yeah, Gainwell and Corum are there were usable running backs but it just wasn't due to that major injury that bolstered the value. And going back to what Jake said earlier, I think that probably Harold Fannin was the waiver wire pickup of the year. A guy who just widely unrostered and even when he was kind of starting to do it, wasn't getting picked up in every league and was still available for a while, but by the end was just a guy that you could plug in safely in your lineup and feel good about it. Even when the Browns had kind of a bad quarterback situation.
- [54:52]
Jake Seeley
I think the three biggest. Sorry, I was going to say the wide receivers. The three biggest that came to mind when you said this, Joe. The three biggest were all wide receivers. It was Quentin Johnston and there was a period where he got hurt and kind of went out of the equation.
- [55:02]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Alec Pierce again, short lived.
- [55:04]
Jake Seeley
Alec Pierce was short lived. No, Alec Pierce was most of the season. It was most of the season.
- [55:08]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
It was.
- [55:09]
Jake Seeley
Even after Daniel Jones got hurt, he still somehow produced in two of those games. So again, that's also Daniel Jones injury. And then to your point, Joe, was this Troy Franklin, not Troy Franklin. Troy Franklin, not Troy Franklin.
- [55:21]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
That's what it felt like every week was. It was like we kept talking about the same guys. And I do the long form waiver wire show with Pat and the short form waiver wire show with Jake every Monday. And it felt like we were recycling the same guys oftentimes. And. And even the Quorums and some of the other running backs you mentioned before, like, even Gainwell, they're more like flex guys than they were RB2 guys we felt really good about every week.
- [55:41]
Jake Seeley
Okay, so if there was waiver value, there was no league winners really, this year. There was not. Maybe two or three.
- [55:48]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Wilson. Maybe Wilson. Like, that's one guy again.
- [55:51]
Jake Seeley
But that was because, yeah, injury.
- [55:53]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
It was injury that opened it up. And you know, again, when Harmon Harrison came back for some of those games, it wasn't as good. And then there was one where it was. Of course, we're talking about championships here and we're gonna give away a championship belt from our good friends over at Trophy Smack, the number one destination for epic fantasy football hardware. This is for the winner in your league. Or you could just keep it if you win. How do you win? You drop your comments below, you subscribe to the channel, and you ring the bell till it goes ding. So you never miss a piece of content here on fantasy pros, YouTube and of course, we can let you know if you are the winner of this week's giveaway, the fantasy football championship belt. It's a great one, too. I've got a couple that Jake had to hand me from Flex League. They're heavy, they're awesome. I just missed it this year. I'm still depressed about it, but I'd rather lose by a hundred, which I did, than lose by one. That's, that's, that's way worse. All right, this question is going to be mostly for Pat because I know Jake doesn't care about kickers. So enough in leagues where you have kickers, four kickers crack the top 100 most common players in championship teams. Is there something to that, Pat? The, the kickers were Aubrey, Dicker and Bates and then Jason Myers as well was on the fringe of that. Obviously, you know, kicker, defense, these are positions you wait till the end. But if you had some dominant defenses, right. If you had the Houston Texans defense at times in certain stretches, should we be paying a little bit more attention to the end of drafts? If you say you love a guy like Kyle Menanga, you know no one's going to draft next year, right. That style player. Should you bump up a kicker or even a defense that you think is going to be consistently good, that you don't have to churn and burn and stream either of them, or are you still in the. Nope. See ya. 2026, same thing. We're streaming defensive streaming kickers. We're just going to figure it out.
- [57:37]
Pat Fitz Morris
So I think I am still going to wait on kicker and defenses kicker because it's such an unpredictable position. No one had Jason Myers ranked as one of their top kickers this year. Yes, people did have Brandon Aubrey and were drafting him insanely early and Aubrey did have a good season, but it's just not worth investing heavily. And by heavily I say 14th round as opposed to 16th round in a 16 round draft with a position that's just so wildly unpredictable. And with defense, yes, we did see the best actual defenses wind up as the best fantasy defenses with teams like Houston, Seattle and Denver. But there's still matchups that those teams are going to get where you don't necessarily want to play those teams in certain matchups. I mean, I don't think you ever want to play. Well, I shouldn't say ever because things changed a little this year when Lamar Jackson was hurt. But when Lamar Jackson plays, I don't want to ever play a defense against the Lamar Jackson Raiders because they run a lot and don't pass very much and Lamar Jackson doesn't commit a lot of turnovers. They're just limited scoring opportunities there. You're always going to run into matchups where even if you're sitting with a defense you really like, the Broncos or the Seahawks, you might be losing an edge to someone who has the Chicago Bears. Just because the Chicago Bears are playing some rookie third string quarterback who's forced to make his first start due to injuries. Like I just want to look for those matchups. I always play the opposing offense more than the actual defense and that's why I'm never investing much in a defense.
- [59:17]
Jake Seeley
Well, for the defense I will jump in that real quick.
- [59:19]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
You're going to even. Oh my God.
- [59:23]
Jake Seeley
Defenses.
- [59:24]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Who are you? What have you done with Jake Steeler.
- [59:26]
Jake Seeley
To what Pat's saying there? I mean, if you look at the top five defenses for this year, the Texans were sixth in ADP and the Steelers were fourth. But we're talking about the other three all outside the top 14. The Seahawks Bears were barely inside the top 20 and oh, by the way, the Jaguars 31st defense in ADP. So. And those are just the top five. So for Pat's point there, like where I will wait and then you can make the argument that the best defense, you take them that final round before the final round. Like if it's 15, you draft 16, I get it. But those are always a guarantee. Either where I was going to say this is my strategy for do I do play with defenses is a lot of times I'll just attack who are the best matchups for the first three weeks and figure it out after that. Because honestly, when it comes to defenses, as proven right there, a lot of times we don't know anything when it comes to scoring for fantasy defenses. You can be the best defense in the league and not be good in fantasy. And we've seen that before.
- [60:20]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
All right, Last question number 10. We never want to draft teams in 2026 for 2025. That's the worst thing you can possibly do. But was there a trend or something you saw in 2025, Jake, that leads you to maybe any sort of tweak or thought process heading into 2026. Could it be the way the tight end position is shaping up going into next year based off last year? Could it be the quarterback discussion we had before about the values there potentially with those big quarterbacks that went early that did not perform because they got hurt. What did you see in 2025 that might reshape your thoughts on 2026?
- [60:52]
Jake Seeley
So the quarterbacks that we talked about earlier is like, look for that value next year because of how bad things went to the position. But I'll say as an overall strategy, we've been talking about this for years, but we never really talked about it from a draft strategy standpoint. And it's kind of it was big ish last year and I think it's going to carry even more into next year. Is that wide receiver so deep which has actually turned into a bad thing because wide receiver twos have become more volatile than ever before where we've been, hey, let's get two wide receivers. The whole argument not to take running backs is because I know I'm getting production. I don't usually have to worry about injury. But now this year you just get to the twos and most of the twos, if you go I've done, you have to do it manually. I don't know a site that does it for you. But if you look at the twos and you look at their game logs almost, I think it was like 10 out of the 12 had at least half their games in single digits. Like that's how bad it was this year. And those are twos, those aren't even threes. So I say going into next year's draft is not just the argument for maybe there's value at quarterback, but if you are going to take McBride, I'm 100% with Pat. If Bowers is there in the third round, you make argument for Bowers. If somebody else is there in the fourth, a quarterback is there. A doubling up on running backs is maybe we'd get away from hammering that Wide Receiver 2 position. Realizing that wide receiver twos and fours are almost like the Spider man gift just pointing at each other at this point.
- [62:16]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Pat, your thoughts on something you saw in 2025 that might reshape your thinking for this season?
- [62:20]
Pat Fitz Morris
Boy, just to piggyback on Jake's point and talking about how wide receiver was deep at first, I was aghast when he said that. But what he said about the wide receiver twos and the wide receiver fours being almost blended together this year. That's exactly it. So that's kind of the here. That's the argument against hero running back. Especially if you're drafting down at 8 or 9 next year and you don't have a shot at Bijan Robinson or Jameer Gibbs.
- [62:45]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Yeah.
- [62:46]
Pat Fitz Morris
And like I see appeal to maybe starting with Amon Ross, St. Brown and Nico Collins if you can do that. Because it's going to be like that wide receiver two class ain't what it used to be. And to be able to stack up two wide receiver ones with your first two picks has a lot of appeal. And then other than that, just to get back to that tight end discussion, I think waiting on tight end is the thing to do next year. Because just we have seen three really good tight ends come into the league this year and bolster that position. And we saw Tucker Kraft sort of validate what he was. He's coming off an injury but and we saw Trey McBride bloom into a superstar. So now all of a sudden tight ends pretty, pretty deep relative to what it was. I think taking McBride is a mistake. I do think the value on Brock bowers at the 23 turn compared to McBride at the 12 turn is so much better. But you can also wait and get Brenton Strange in the mid rounds. And like that was the name I.
- [63:50]
Jake Seeley
Was thinking about before when we were talking he's the only one that's like their situation should be the same. I will say to your point, Pat is there was a lot of people in the comments were like hey, look at my championship roster. Because we were talking. That's the whole kind of thing we've been talking about today, Joe is there was a lot of I started with JSN Nakuda, I started with jsn asb, I started with asb Naku, like those three and even Nico Collins sprinkled in there a few. But like those, especially those three, hitting those at the second half of the first round, early second for a lot of those teams ended up being a big win this year.
- [64:22]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Yeah, there's guys every year like Amon Ra who I feel like get get dismissed right every year in the middle of a draft every year. Like why is he in the middle of a draft? All he does every year is go out there and catch 100 balls and he's brilliant every single season. So some guys get undervalued. A lot of guys returning from injury next year be fascinating to see. And of course we're going to be here to recap all of it. But of course we'd love to hear from you. Drop your comments below. What did you learn in 2025 that's changing your 2026 approach? Drop your comments. You could win yourself a championship bell. Download the Hard Rock BET Sportsbook app. That'll do it for us. But the story of the game goes on. For Jake Seeley from the Athletic and Pat Fitz Morris, I'm Joey P. We'll see you next time, kids. Subscribe to the YouTube channel. Subscribe to the feed Fantasy Pros never sleeps, baby. Have a great day.
- [65:04]
Jake Seeley
Thanks for listening to the Fantasy Pros Fantasy Football Podcast.
- [65:08]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
If you love the show, the best.
- [65:09]
Jake Seeley
Free way to support us is by leaving a positive review on apple podcasts@fantasypros.com review or on Spotify.
- [65:17]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
Follow us on x Instagram and TikTok.
- [65:20]
Jake Seeley
Antasypros and subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube.com fantasypros.
- [65:47]
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- [65:49]
Joey P (Joe P. Zeppia)
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