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FantasyPros - Fantasy Football Podcast
Breakout or Bust? | Draft or Pass on These Polarizing Players (Ep. 2021)
01:10:59
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- [00:00]
A
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human Max softness, Max energy max run. Go on a run that never runs out. In the New Brooks Glycerin Max 2 dual cell DNA tuned cushion is optimized for soft landings and powerful toe offs while a glide roll rocker helps provide a more fluid step through. To help you truly tune out and max your run, shop the Glycerin Max 2@brooksrunning.com hello everybody. Welcome into the Fantasy Pros Football Podcast. I'm Ryan, warmly joined by Andrew Erickson and by Jake Seeley from the Athletic. We are talking some polarizing players today. Draft or pass on some guys across all the positions who have a pretty wide range of rankings in our early rankings@fantasypros.com rankings. You can find our consensus rankings there for 2026. Also our tiers are on there as well from folks around the industry and we're going to look at the guys who have these very wide ranges at all the different positions and see who we agree with being high and think should be low and where we come down on a lot of these guys before we dive in. Jake, what do you have going on at the Athletic these days?
- [01:09]
B
All this offseason content, dynasty rankings, rookie rankings, new way too early rankings and rankings, rankings, rankings, rankings, because that's what time of the year it is. It's just to talk about the stuff that we're talking about today. So there's plenty of fun if you want to start drafting early, which some of us, including myself, already have.
- [01:27]
A
Erickson, I would ask what you have going on at work, but I know you have a lot more going on at home as a new dog dad, congratulations.
- [01:34]
C
Yep. Have not been in the best ball streets because I've been too busy cleaning up accidents in my house. So that's how I've been preoccupied. But it's been a lot of fun. Archie Erickson is the newest member of the Erickson clan. Golden retriever puppy, eight weeks. He is all of those eight weeks. Wish he was older. I'm just fingers crossed of what he'll be like when he's a little bit older. Right now he is a tornado when he's up, but it's so fun. You see him run around and then five seconds later just passed out, just gone zonked. So it's been a while ride here at the Erickson household, but set some aside, set some time aside to chop it up with you boys.
- [02:14]
A
Archie is very, very adorable. We've seen some of the pictures. Is he named after the future number one Overall pick Manning next year, Heisman.
- [02:23]
C
I'm just me and Archie, we're excited for college football this year to watch. Sit down, watch Archie Manning and his march for his Heisman. So it should be a lot of fun.
- [02:33]
B
Yeah, he's a big Archie Bunker fan.
- [02:36]
A
Yeah. Yeah, obviously I was trying to think of how many Archies I could even think of. Those are pretty much the only. Well, one of them's Arch, but yeah, Arch and Archie Bunker are the only two I can think of. All right, let's. Let's dive into the episode here. We're going to start with quarterbacks. We got a couple for you. First one I want to talk about is Justin Herbert. He's QB7 in ECR. His highest ranking is QB6. His lowest ranking is down at QB14. So considering the kind of the range we're looking at, that's a pretty wide spot of a eight. Eight spots there at the position. I like Herbert a lot. I'll just say right off the bat I am definitely closer to the higher ranking on this one. I am a huge believer obviously in Mike McDaniel. They I'm gonna hope Pat finally have a healthy offensive line for the first time in forever. You know, I like the pieces around him. The running game will be strong. I. I'm just like, I really want to be buying in on this offense and I love Herbert the player. I remember watching Erickson the first game last season against the Chiefs and thinking like, should I go bet on Herbert to win MVP this year? Like, he just looked like he was taking a step forward. I kind of think it's all going to come together even more this year with the new offensive coordinator change. I like Herbert a lot, so I'm just like kicking things off by saying I'm definitely on the high end of this range. But again, QB6 to QB14, where do you come down?
- [03:49]
C
I have met QB6, so I'm definitely on the high. You are the best ranker then Justin Herbert. So kind of my chest for. Yep, Justin Herbert. I'm the reason why he's on the show because I ranked him as QB6. Worm, you kind of summed it up great where we remember talking about him on the trade show, going to buy Justin Herbert, man, after what we saw him do early on in the year when the tackles were mostly healthy. Five games with Joe Al in 2025, Justin Herbert averaged nearly 24 fantasy points per game. Twelve games without Joe Alt 16.2, almost eight fantasy points fewer when he was playing behind a more broken offensive line so I think that matters significantly. I get that the rushing and carries probably won't carry over. Had career highs in those, those last year but in terms of just pure ceiling, he tied Josh Allen with the most boom finishes with fort, which is a top three weekly finish. So I think that Justin Herbert is an uber talented quarterback. I think that he's with a great offensive play caller in mind with Mike McDaniel and with a healthy offensive line, I mean he was still QB10 in points per game last year. So behind broken pieces, good weapons, he's got David Njoku now I love Justin Herbert. He's one of my favorite quarterbacks to draft, especially with my approach. I usually like going with a late round approach but when it comes to players who think could maybe be an elite or post an elite season, I like to get them at the end of that tier and right now we're just Herbert's going in that 6, 7 range. I think he's a good pick.
- [05:21]
A
I, I don't even know if I would say for sure that he might not run as much. I, I just, I'm very curious to see if Mike McDaniel is like I finally have a quarterback that I can run, has some ideas with, with using him in that way. Obviously not that Herbert is like a Lamar Jackson level runner, but like clearly, I mean compared to Tua, he might as well be. So I, I am interested to see what McDaniel does in that regard. But yeah, like Jake, I, I mean I'm looking at the rankings right now. I'm not saying I would rank Herbert like as high as QB4. I'm not crazy. But I will say like right now There are only three names I am 100% certain that I will not have, you know, below Herbert and that's Alan, Lamar and may everybody else like I'm at least willing to, to entertain a conversation. I like Herbert that much.
- [06:02]
B
Yeah, not on the same page as you guys. Comes down to. I think what I try to preach all the time is don't buy all the risk and I think buying them at six is you're buying all the risk because let's make the easy comparison. If you want to throw out the numbers of what it would take to be top five, even top six, it's Baker Mayfield from two years ago with the rushing, the 400 some odd yard rushing and that's why I bring it up. I'm kind of in between you guys when it comes to that. I'm with Andrew and the fact I don't think he'll hit the peak that he did last year, but I don't think the fall off would be too great where it's all of a sudden he only for 200 yards. I think his happy place is somewhere in the 350 to 450 range. Not going to be a lot of rushing touchdowns though. So that's why I say is look at Baker Mayfield. But as Baker Mayfield showed last year and then the year before that, even when some of the goods are still there, is that you could easily be QB12 and just not quite as good in the passing department. And that's where my concern really lies, is that, you know Justin Herbert, going back to his first two seasons when he was averaging 21 fantasy points per game, he hasn't been asked to pass that much since then and it's been 17, 16, 17 16. I know if you take the first half of last year before all the injuries, it's more like 19, which is really nice, but you're still not inside the top five. And where my real concern lies is everybody's excited for Mike McDaniel and I get it. But at the same time we're talking about a team that is every single year. The Dolphins one of the lowest pace per plays. The Chargers were just fourth lowest in pace per play last year before getting Mike McDaniel in there, who also brought in Kohler for a blocking tight end. And then they signed David Njoku. They're clearly going to go more 2 and 3 wide receiver or 2 and 3 tight end sets. They were actually dead last in the league last year using two tight ends and a team that's still going to be run balanced. I'm not going to say run heavy. They actually were a heavy passing team last year. To say all this to say it's like I don't think I'm not putting Herbert down at 15, I just think putting him at five or six or even seven. I think you're just buying that he has to do everything that Baker did two years ago. Kenny. Absolutely. I'm just not going to buy him at that because I feel like now you're buying the fact that if he ends up being QB 12 or even 10, which he just was last year, as Andrew said, it's still good, but it's actually a pretty significant drop off from what you're like 17, 18, 19 fantasy points per game at quarterback is kind of. That's a bunch of guys are going to do like Trevor Lawrence, Dak Prescott, even Jackson Dart if he Stays healthy to get the 21, you really need to make that difference. And I feel like putting him at 6, you kind of need him to be that 20, 21 fantasy points per game.
- [08:38]
A
What do you think about that, Ericsson?
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C
No, I think that laying out with the numbers of what it takes to hit a certain threshold is really good to illuminate. Because if Jake is saying that there are other quarterbacks that he feels can hit that similar ceiling, but where you're not paying for basically the ecr ADP is suggesting that this is like the favorite to make the jump into elite in 2026. Which doesn't mean it's wrong. It's just it has to hit or else you're going to be really disappointed. So, Jake, besides. So where do you actually have Justin Herbert ranked?
- [09:08]
B
I'm a 10.
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C
Okay.
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B
But I have him in a giant tier. So my tier one is Alan May, Jackson Daniels, tier one Burrow sitting by himself. And then I have a really, really, really small tier of two, which I know one is going to make everybody lose their mind and not listen to what I have to say for the rest of the show. But my really small tier of 2 is Hertz and dart. I know everybody hates Jackson or Jalen hurts undeservedly. So that's a conversation for another day. Those are my two. And then my tier with Herbert is Dak and Lawrence and Caleb and Nicks and Purdy and Kyler and Herbert. Like, all those names. So if you want to put them as high as eight, I'm okay with it. I just can't get to six.
- [09:50]
A
I guess what I would say to that is just like a lot of the names ahead of him also have their own risk. Like, Daniels obviously didn't have a very good season last year and has injury risk. Burrow gets hurt all the time. You know, Dart worried about concussions all the time. I. I mean, like, I'm just saying, like, they're like. Because you're talking about, like, oh, you're like kind of, you know, spending up with a risky player. Like, I think there's risk at a lot of these guys outside of the top three, honestly. And I don't think there's any risk. I think it's.
- [10:15]
B
I think Jake the. Jayden Daniels is only injury. Same with Joe Burrow. Only injury, which I get if people want to, like, if that's their risk. I'm just never going to do that because we do this every single year where we try to say, oh, this guy is injury risk. And this Guy's not. And then we have ones that we never even thought were going to be an injury risk and then others who all of a sudden stay healthy. I mean, I always go back to a running back who is one of the biggest injury risks of all time. Leonard Fournette, hurt in college, hurt the first two seasons of his career. And then all of a sudden magically stays healthy. Like you just, you have him every single which way. I get it. And that's what I'm saying. Like if you want to. I'm not going to say you're crazy. Like that's the risk taking in there. I just think I'm going to take health out of the equation. Unless somebody's entering the year hurt like Malik Neighbors on our other show that we did coming into the year hurt different coming into the year healthy. I'm just not going to try to predict like, oh my God, he's more likely to get hurt.
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A
Yeah, that, that's fair. Dart is one where I think like that that guy's just going to keep getting concussions unless he starts playing differently. Like he's just so reckless.
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C
But, but, but the thing too. But in a one quarterback league, to Jake's point, you draft Trevor Lawrence as QB11. He was the highest scoring quarterback basically in the second half the season behind only Josh Allen.
- [11:24]
B
Yeah.
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C
His price is going to be significantly less than Justin Herbert, but he showed last year that he can be an elite quarterback for fantasy purposes.
- [11:33]
B
Yeah.
- [11:33]
C
Right. So it's not a matter. I mean, Jake is playing more again. The cost is really important here. Not necessarily. Well, Jake, if I told you that Justin Herbert and Trevor Lawrence were the exact same price, would you still take Trevor Lawrence?
- [11:45]
B
I would take Herbert ten times.
- [11:46]
A
Exactly.
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C
Exactly. So. So yeah. Just to frame it a little bit differently.
- [11:51]
A
Yeah. All right, let's get to the other quarterback we want to talk about here. Kyler Murray. He is QB17, but another wide range here. As high as QB13 for some, as low as QB23 for others. So just outside that QB1 range for the highest rankers and then almost as low as a QB3 for the lowest. Jake, I'll start with you on Kyler. Where do you come down on him?
- [12:14]
B
That's funny. I was almost the other person like Andrew was. I'm the guy that has him at the six. This is why we're talking about it. I was almost the guy with Kyler because I am at 14, not at 13. He doesn't make that tier with the others. But it really comes down to what do we know about Kyler at this point? Two things. One is he's going to a situation which you could argue is better because yes, Kevin o' Connell has kind of schemed differently from Kyler's strengths. But we've also seen Kevin o' Connell maximize the strength of his quarterbacks. It's similar and I'm not going to go down that road, but it's similar to the Hertz argument. You don't think these teams bring in players and adjust their offenses for what the skill sets they have. And one of the things that Kyler does is throw to the outsides really well and we know that Jefferson and Addison and the rest can win there. And I think Juwan Jennings is an underrated signing to be their third wide receiver, but everything's here. And the reason he's not higher is because he doesn't run as much as he did four or five years ago. If he did, if he was running 6, 700 yards, I'd argue that a healthy Kyler with the Vikings could get back into the top five. Like he'd be on this conversation we were having about Lawrence and Dart and Herbert and everything. But I think at 14, he's kind of the top end of that net where they're ceiling to get back there. Even not running for now, more so like a 500 yard season. But just being able to play in this system and maximize the strength unlike what Pet Singing and the rest tried to do with the Cardinals. I think it's actually a better spot than the Cardinals and I think we could see color, get back to relevancy for us in fantasy.
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A
What do you think, Erickson? I mean, is any of the shine coming off of Kevin o' Connell as the quarterback whisperer because of what we saw from J.J. mcCarthy last year? Or do you still believe McCarthy wasn't his fault?
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C
Stop it.
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A
I just have to ask the question if he's this, you know, quarterback whisperer, but. Yeah. What do you think, Erickson?
- [14:01]
C
Well, I think he's a veteran quarterback whisperer. He takes quarterbacks who have already played in the NFL for some extent, have had some success and obviously some failure, and then he has morphed them into really productive pros. Cajun McCarthy misses entire rookie year so basically he was a glorified rookie, which Kevin o' Connell had really never shown that he could transform a young player with not a lot of experience coming from Michigan, where he wasn't asked to drop back and throw 40, 45 times per game, which is what we saw a Lot of these Vikings quarterbacks do in this system. So I'm not saying that's what Kyler Murray is going to do. But I agree with Jake here being a little bit higher than consensus on Kyler Murray because there is rushing that he can add. The risk is obviously is he just cooked at this point. Again, he's coming off another season ending injury. That was a foot injury. So you can't just totally ignore that. I do think that the system in place, the surrounding playmakers, Juwan Jennings is his wide receiver. 3. That's awesome. Jennings was a red zone monster. He's got Jordan Addison, he's got arguably the best wide receiver in the NFL in Justin Jefferson. So he's got weapons galore. And he's also in a position of his NFL career where dude, he's gotta, he's got to put up numbers, he's got to do something. Like he is playing again. He's getting paid this year by the Arizona Cardinals, but he has no long term commitment from any NFL team. Again, former first overall pick. It's not the first time we've seen a player drafted this highly hit a big bump in his NFL career. Baker Mayfield struggled with the Cleveland Browns, basically got jettisoned to other teams and he had a resurrection of his career with Tampa Bay. So I don't think it would be super shocking to see Kyler Murray because we've seen the highs with him where he can be a top end fantasy quarterback. So outside of last year where he was Outside the top 20 quarterbacks, he's been a top 20 quarterback every year of his career including, including four top 10 finishes, five in points per game when he came back from injury in 2023. So although the injury card can be really risky, we've also seen him come back from an injury and be productive. I remember when he first came back from his torn ACL thinking, okay, well this guy's not going to run. He immediately runs and it really blew me away. And I'm like, man, all my takes on Kyler Murray were aging like spoiled milk. Just absolutely terrible. So will it happen again? Remains to be seen. But in a one quarterback league where Kyler's going still outside the top 12, you take him, see what he does in week one. If he's not moving, okay, it's probably not gonna happen for him. But if he does run, oh baby, now you have an asset so you gain value because of the rushing that he's offering and all the weapons in Minnesota. So although I'm not super or as bullish as Jake is, and I'm not saying Jake is oh, Kyler Murray is going to be locked alone a top 10 guy. I think it does make more sense to be a little bit higher than ECR and ADP just because his high range of outcomes is pretty enticing.
- [16:45]
A
When you're on the clock for your Dynasty, startup or rookie draft, you don't have time to think. You need answers. Sync your league with Draft Assistant and get real time pick advice based on your settings, expert rankings and more. Win your drafts draft assistant@fantasyprose.com assistant or or on the Fantasy Pros app. Got a draft coming up? Grab a 3 day free trial of a premium subscription right now@FantasyPros.com Dynasty26 all right guys, let's get to the running backs here. We'll start off with a guy who's ranked inside the top 12. That's Kenneth Walker. He's RB11. His best ranking is as high as RB7, but his worst is down at RB20. Erickson, I'll start with you. Which end are you closer to?
- [17:28]
C
I'm closer to the high end of him at RB7, so I have him inside my top 10 running backs. I just really love the fit with the Kansas City Chiefs offense. They need an explosive playmaker out of the backfield. That's what they got. And Ken Walker, that's really what he does best is generate explosive plays both as a rusher and as a receiver out of the backfield. So the fact that the Chiefs last year were still 8th in rushing success rate, 3rd lowest stuff rate in the NFL. Can't guarantee Ken Walker is going to get all the touches. He probably won't. They're probably going to use Imari Di Mercado in certain situations, especially on pass downs because I think that Ken Walker is still not the best in pass protection. But I still think that they're going to lean on him a lot, especially with Mahomes coming off of his injury. So even if it's kind of changes a little bit what his role is in the offense, maybe early on he is getting more early down volume because they're not throwing as much. But in the second half of the season when Mahomes is playing better, maybe he's seeing less touches as they try to keep him fresh for the potential playoffs, but he's more efficient because now the defenses have to respect a fully healthy Patrick Mahomes. So I yeah, I'm in on Kenneth Walker as a top 10 running back this year. I'm not I don't think that's a hot take. And although there'll be times where it's kind of frustrating with Imari Di Mercado, maybe Emma Johnson sprinkles in here and there. He's still a day three rookie running back even though I do like him. And for me it's there's no Zach Charbonnet on this Chiefs team. Like that's the big thing for me. And we saw the upside with Ken Walker when hey, he got the keys to the kingdom, keys to the backfield in Seattle when Charbonnet was sidelined and the dude absolutely smashed. So obviously injuries always play a factor when it comes to running backs, especially with a guy like Walker. But lead rushing role on a Chiefs offense that could easily be top 10 with Mahomes healthy. I like that a lot. So I'm in.
- [19:08]
A
So As a top 10 running back, is that like late second round for you? Where are you looking to draft him round wise?
- [19:15]
C
Yeah, I think that's probably second second
- [19:18]
A
round by the way. Actually he has moved up to RB6 for a couple of people since I put the sheet together yesterday. So an even higher range of rankings for him. Jake, where is he at for you?
- [19:29]
B
He's well inside my top 10. And the fact like I think seven or eight but more so not that I have him as a mid second rounder because I'm even more aggressive than Andrew is on this. They sign him to a major deal and bring him in to say like you are our lead and I know whether it might be Dame Mercado or Emma Johnson, whoever it might be. And I know there's years of everybody chasing the Chiefs running back because it's the backfield and the Chiefs have been middle of the road offensively for the past couple seasons. So it's not like it's this magical landing spot, but it's magical for what we want for Kenneth Walker because we've been dealing with the Zach Charbonnet for how many years? The whole time with the Seahawks. And I went back and looked since Kenneth Walker came in the league, you know what the numbers on him just 14 touches or more in a game every time he's had at least 14 touches. He's averaging 15 fantasy points per game. Then we make him RB7 and by the way of those games, he's only failed to hit double digits seven times. So he has actually been what we've wanted him to be. And what is everybody's screamed at the top of their lungs watching it happen with the Seahawks Being like, oh my God, why don't they use it more? Oh my God, why don't they use it more? Even if it's just 14, which it'll probably be more like 16, 17. Even if, like Andrew's saying they see some touches or snaps on third downs, passing situations, whatever, it might be just average 14 touches per game. And we're going to get 15 fantasy points per game on the Chiefs because Kenneth Walker is their clear lead. So I am well in on Kenneth Walker as a mid second round pick this year.
- [20:58]
A
Yeah, the rankings are not in agreement, but the three of us are. We all definitely really like Walker here, especially in this range. Let's go to the next running back on the list, chuba hubbard. He's rb27. And by the way, I don't think. I don't know if I said this at the top or not. We're looking at the half PPR rankings in ecr. When I'm, when I'm saying these rankings, obviously if you change, some of these will look a little bit different. But Chuba Hubbard, RB27, his best is RB19. His worst is down at RB39. So a 20 spot difference from best to worst. Jake, where are you at with Hubbard?
- [21:31]
B
I'm a few spots lower. I. I don't know how much Hubbard I'm gonna have just because. Not saying it's definitely, but it feels like two years ago might have been an anomaly for Hubbard in his career. And you watch what the Panthers did, and all they did was sign AJ Dillon this offseason. So you have Hubbard, Brooks and A Chan question mark. Trevor hasn't said if he wants the same last name as his brother. So I don't know. But I mean, that's the backfield as of today, which I know people might say they let Dowdle go and that's a positive for Hubbard, but I think it might be more of a positive, like they still think they have something than Jonathan Brooks. So we're talking about Jonathan Brooks, the talent and what he was thought of coming out of his college as a bell cow NFL running back with top 10 potential. And I know there's two major injuries, but maybe he is close to 100% and close to anything like the running back. I mean, hell, Nick Chubb did it. There's been other Kareem Hunts where, like, we've had running backs that have had serious injuries and we can go down a bigger list than that. But like, there's been plenty that have gotten back to what we thought they could be before their injuries. So I'm saying that say like I don't know that Hubbard's definitively the one as in Bell cow won. I think the doubtful usage last year pointed to the fact that they weren't enamored with him and that work. I know the contract is there, but I think that might have been more of buyers remorse that we were seeing last season with the Panthers. So I'm saying to say is like, yeah, Hubbard's fine in this range. I'll probably be taking wide receivers just because I've been actually taking a lot of late round flyers on Jonathan Brooks just on the chance that he's anything like we saw pre injury.
- [23:01]
A
Yeah, Erickson, I'm curious what you think about hubber, but also what you think of Brooks playing into this backfield.
- [23:07]
C
I much rather have Brooks at his cost. That's kind of how I see this Panthers backfield where Chuba Hubbard to me looks a little bit like a dead zone running back. Now the dead zone, I mean in terms of the profile of the player, not where they're going in drafts because that has also completely changed in the last couple seasons, but primarily operating on early downs. He does catch passes, but he hasn't been super efficient as a pass catcher. And what is Jonathan Brooks offered that maybe Chuba Hubbard isn't great at is catching passes out of the backfield. When Jonathan Brooks came back in 2024 from his first injury, Chuba Hubbard's targets were immediately nuked. So I think that's going to play a big factor and it's just hard for me to get so gun ho on a running back that lost his job just last year to a pretty much career journeyman running back. And Rico Daddy. Rico Data wasn't some young stud that was drafted highly. He was an undrafted guy who had a big year with the Dallas Cowboys, went over a thousand screaming yards. Him and Chuba Hubbard were both very good in 2024 and Hubbard got hurt, lost his job. So that doesn't make me feel really warm and fuzzy about okay, you gotta draft this guy because he's gonna smash and do what he did in 2024. Again, you look at 2024, he also broke down during that season as well. So he also hasn't been a player that has lasted the majority of both 2024 and 2025 season. So I think that the Panthers are going to use a committee of guys. I still think they like Brooks. They still drafted Trevor etnh, whatever his name is. We don't know. But they Seem to like him a little bit as well. So I think Hubbard, to me, is someone that I'm cool passing on. Take the upside on maybe a more ambiguous backfield with a player like Jonathan. Brooks is only 22 years old and he has barely played in the NFL.
- [24:49]
A
I believe he'll be 23 to start the season. For what? It's obviously still very young, but just say it.
- [24:54]
C
Yeah, he's a still very young player. And week one after. After we watched happens in week one, you could see the view of Hubbard and Brooks dramatically change. So I'm not willing to say I'm so confident Hubbard to take him now. When brooks Outside top 40 running backs, that's where I want to kind of take my chance on this Panthers running Backfield.
- [25:13]
B
It'll be 23 this July 21st.
- [25:16]
A
Yeah. So coming up in a couple of
- [25:18]
C
months, May 23 is one one day away from my birthday. Shout out Jonathan Brooks.
- [25:23]
A
Shout out Jonathan Brooks. This is really, like you said, the dead zone, Ericsson. Like, this kind of group of players we're talking about is really like the polarizing zone, because in this tier, we have Chuba Hubbard, we have the next two names we're about to talk about. We also have Jadarian Price, who we're not talking about, but has a very wide standard deviation as well. If you look at the fantasy pros rankings, it's a lot of names in this kind of late 20s, early 30s of the running back position, where people are very split on them and will be kind of a key area to get right on draft day, I think. So like I said, we just talked about Hubbard. We're not talking about Price. We are going to talk about the two Broncos guys. R.J. harvey and J.K. dobbins are both in this range. R.J. harvey is RB 29. His highest ranking is RB 20. His lowest is RB 40. J.K. dobbins, he's RB 35. His highest ranking is 27. His lowest ranking is 47. Do you think, Jake, that this is a case of, like, the, you know, rankers are saying, like, we have to pick one of these guys to rank high and the other to rank low, and that's almost why they both have such wide ranges, or do you think they are just both kind of inherently difficult to rank players this year?
- [26:34]
B
I think I want to know how RJ Harvey hurt you, the person who put him at 40. Like, what the heck? Like, you cannot think he's the best option there, the backfield. But 40, wow, that. That's crazy to Me. But all that being said, there's risk with this backfield. It is Sean Payton. Sean Payton loves to have sometimes four active running backs on game day. This is just what Sean Payton does if anybody doesn't know his first year playing. Sean Payton hates your fantasy team, including wide receivers and everything else and his joker role. But all that being said, I still have Harvey the highest. I'm not far from consensus on him or Dobbins. I think that a healthy Dobbins we just saw last year. It was better as the short yards, even at times better in the passing game, but they're a nice complement to each other. Whether or not Dobbins stays healthy the entire year. I think that's why they took Jonah Coleman. I'm not enamored by Jonah Coleman. I think a lot of people saw this landing spot and they're like, oh my gosh, Jonah Coleman and he's going to take over Dobbins. No, I think he's the plan for next year or if Dobbins happens to get hurt in 2026. Remember how excited everybody was for Caleb Johnson last year and I think that Coleman's slightly better than Caleb Johnson, but I don't think it' where why are we just crucifying Harvey and Dobbins because they drafted Coleman? I think it's a smart play. I think it's a smart play by the Broncos knowing the health risk of Dobbins and then he's essentially won your contract and gone. But I'm still going to take Harvey as the as the upside one because there's one thing that also with Peyton's backfield, he likes to kind of have the lead option, the pass catcher. And I know I just referenced that Dobbins was doing better early last year, but Harvey definitely picked that up as the year went on in the second half when it was his backfield. He was struggling in the areas that we knew he'd probably struggle in, but was still explosive enough to put up some decent numbers and somewhat in the passing game was getting those targets. So I think the concern for Harvey is that he can't be a true three down, 300 touch running back. But as the complimentary piece and that's usually who gets featured more as the pass catcher. I'm going to take Harvey first, then Dobbins and then yeah, we could see Jonah Coleman as like a league winner if J.K. dobbins gets hurt and then all of a sudden like Harvey's just has no improvement for last year. But I think Holman's getting way overrated Just off the draft spot.
- [28:45]
A
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- [29:30]
B
Everybody knows Shaq, but off camera he's just a regular guy.
- [29:34]
C
People never believe me when I say I'm just like them.
- [29:36]
A
I take out the trash, do dishes, and I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea or osa.
- [29:42]
B
And a lot of adults with obesity
- [29:44]
A
also struggle with moderate to severe osa. You know those scary breathing interruptions during sleep, the loud snoring, choking and daytime fatigue.
- [29:52]
C
I knew I had to talk to my doctor.
- [29:54]
B
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- [30:02]
A
So one feature you can do on a player's profile page on fantasy pros.com is if you click Rankings, you can see who individually has them ranked where a couple, couple, couple of the guys who have him down near 40 are guys who have been on the show before. Jacob Gibbs from CBS and Sportsline has him at RB40. Justin Boone has him RB35 and then our very own Pat Fitz Morris has him RB36. And again, this is in half PPR rankings.
- [30:30]
B
We're gonna have a conversation with that.
- [30:32]
A
Yeah, I was gonna say shame he's not on the show here to argue his case. Erickson, where do you come down on Harvey? And I want to kind of loop Dobbins into the same conversation. The two of them together. What are you doing with them?
- [30:44]
C
Yeah, so I have them pretty close to ECR and pretty close to where Jake has. So I have Harvey 30, Dobbins 34. So I'd still take Harvey over Dobbins because although we don't like to play the injury card, we've seen this with Dobbins.
- [30:57]
B
That one I will Play. That one's a little different. He hasn't played a healthy season.
- [31:04]
C
So it makes sense that the Broncos drafted a guy to fill in that type of grinder role, especially with a player like Coleman, who profile and he's a bowling ball. Right. And he fits, I think exactly what they maybe didn't get or don't want to necessarily ensure. If Harvey doesn't take that step. Okay, well, at least we have Jonah Coleman. We feel confident maybe he can do and fill this role. And I think that's how I view Harvey as a loss. Not because his role changes with the addition of Coleman, but the contingent upside of Dobbins goes down Harvey back into that three down roll like that seems like it's gone because now Coleman's introduced. So I think that's how I view it a little bit differently after the NFL draft. That contingent upside where one injury away, which is what we talk about a lot with these running backs, because it is a position where you can gain so much value if the starter goes down. With the Broncos, Sean Payton, it's not that easy, especially with Coleman added to this backup. So that's just one thing I wanted to add in. But I don't really think I view the backfield differently than Jake where Harvey is the receiving profile, which usually is the thing that's harder for rookie running backs to hit in their first year. Harvey was good as a receiver. Really high target rate per out run. They used him in the red zone. So he also plays on a good offense. So I think Harvey is in a spot where people are really, really low on him. I think there's an opportunity to buy a player like this, especially in full PPR formats because all he's got to do is improve some of the rushing. He's got a good offensive line. If he can be average, okay, then we're cooking with gas. He's already kind of like done the hard thing, right? Where it's like we're begging for guys to be using the receiving game more like please catch passes. Whereas rushing between the 20s. And even if Harvey's not seeing 1012 carries a game, dude's explosive. Remember all those big plays he had? He doesn't necessarily need that type of insane volume as a rusher to get yardage. So those are some things I wanted to kind of layer in here, which is also why I have Harvey ranked head of Dobbins, just because I also know Dobbins. He's not meant to. He's not built for 17 games.
- [32:56]
A
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- [34:11]
B
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- [34:40]
A
Let's move to the receivers here. Jake, you specifically requested that we talk about DJ Moore on this show. Wide receiver 28 he is his best ranking is wide receiver 17. His worst is down at wide receiver 44. Where are you ranked?
- [34:54]
C
Which one is?
- [34:55]
B
Hold on. We need to find this. Where's this full profile? I need to find out who the who's 44 so I can come for them because that's, That's.
- [35:03]
C
I'll.
- [35:04]
A
I'll pull it up here.
- [35:05]
B
Oh, no, no. So 17. Oh, Funston, my cohort over the athletic. He's trying to jump me. Derek Brown's trying to jump me. There's your hint to where my answer is. So apparently. Oh, this is two times. Matthew Hill and I are on way opposite page. Smitty is the worst at 47. Like, we got to come for these people because I don't know what they're smoking, but this is insane. So D.J. moore, just two years removed from wide receiver seven finish, by the way. Oh, who were the quarterbacks? Justin Fields and Tyson Badgeant. Like, those were the quarterbacks. That was also, by the way, the last time that Josh Allen threw to anybody more than 100 times. That was Stefon Diggs, who finished as wide receiver nine. Granted, on 160 targets. But the Bills watched what they tried to do the last two years, which was basically what Tom Brady was asked to do a lot towards the end of his Patriots career. And it's like, hey, you're so good, you elevate everybody else. We'll ask Khalil Shakir, who should be a 2, maybe a 3 in the NFL at best, to be your 1. We'll ask this raw Keon Coleman to step in from day one and do things. We'll ask all these jabronis to come in and be your wide receivers. And they said, well, that's not working. We got to change things if we want to win the big one, if we want to be successful every single week, we need a true number one wide receiver. And they made this number. They made this trade to get a number one wide receiver for DJ Moore, who still has wide receiver. One upside. Did I rank him there? No. People are ahead of me. I'm at 19, so I got jumped by a few people putting him at 17, but that's where he should be, walking into 130 plus targets. Nobody on this team contends with DJ Moore for the lead option, and Josh Allen is going to know that and going to use him from day one. And I think DJ Moore being locked in as a wide receiver too, in fantasy is a guarantee I will go down with that ship. You could cold take me if it doesn't happen. Injury aside. But if he plays a full 16, not even 17, 16 out of 17 games and doesn't finish as a wide receiver too, this year, we'll figure out something for that show because I don't see any way that doesn't Happen, happen.
- [37:05]
A
He's had a real floor despite his really poor quarterback play. You mentioned the ceiling. Obviously that number six finish a couple of years ago, but like you know, after his rookie season, wide receiver 16, 25, 18, 24, 6, 16. And then last year, obviously the down year, but there was a stretch of six straight seasons where his worst finish was 25. So technically not a wide receiver too, but obviously just right outside it that year. And that was with basically no, you know, barely scoring any touchdowns. Right. He was scoring 4, 44786. Like in a high scoring offense is the number one option. Like I'm, I'm, I don't know exactly where I have a ranked Jake, but I definitely closer to you than to wide receiver 44. I'll, I'll say that. Very, very confident.
- [37:45]
B
I have a feeling the 40s maybe haven't updated since the end of the season and they still like have him like as Chicago Bear DJ Moore.
- [37:52]
A
Yeah, I was trying to look at when I, when I was looking at the RJ Harvey one, I was like, I wonder if like, like Jacob Gibbs or you know, had had updated it yet and he had. I haven't looked at all of these guys who have them low. Your friend Joe Erico Erickson is on here as well with DJ Moore down at wide receiver 44. Where is he for you?
- [38:13]
C
Well, let's peel back the onion with people that have him ranked really low. Is that following the Joe Brady Buffalo Bills, everybody eats philosophy where no, we don't want to have a number one. And I think that how legitimate is that case that's really been since they jettisoned Stefan Diggs in that second half of that season. They decided we're not going to have a number one wide receiver anymore. We're done with this. Does D.J. moore change that equation? Jake clearly thinks that is the case. And I think regardless of whether that's right or wrong, chasing that ceiling makes it worth betting on because with DJ Moore Worm, you just talked about it. This dude has had a super high floor his entire NFL career. Six of his last seven seasons. He's wide receiver 22 or better with laundry list of quarterbacks that are hardly players that we want our court, our receivers catching passes from like, oh, I'm hoping it's Justin Field. Like you're not hoping that. But now who is he playing with? Throw every other analysis, he's playing with the best quarterback of his career named Josh.
- [39:14]
B
Well, let me ask you this. They traded essentially a second rounder. You're telling me they don't break. Like I don't care if it's Brady or whoever. You trade a second rounder and you don't treat them as they're one like you make them a collection of options. I just. That would make. If that's the case and that's the downside and I'm completely wrong and that's where they go with this. I know that you weren't saying that Andrew, but if that's where they go with this, fire the staff. You do not trade a second rounder for DJ Moore and then put them as a part of a collective.
- [39:44]
C
I do think they're. But that's the worst case scenario. He's the 1A but ends up still being to your point. He's still top 24 guy. So even if he doesn't hit that ceiling because he's not used as a true alpha and I kind of like on the fence about DJ Moore of a true alpha type of wide receiver because he's had obviously wide receiver one seasons before. That being said, the upside case especially attached to Joe Brady who he has had success with before in their time together in Carolina when Brady Cole plays in 2020, 2021. During those seasons more wide receiver 22 wide receiver 19 half PBR. Nearly 1200 receiving yards both seasons. 11.5 fantasy points per game which have road ranked wide receiver. What did you have him? I receive her 17 RC or 1717 for them? 1717 for Funston. So yeah, it's. I feel like we can paint the picture of how DJ Moore does hit his high range of outcomes. And that's how you win in fantasy. Right. Chasing that ceiling.
- [40:47]
A
D.J. moore, by the way, in 2020 was his age 23 season. He had the second most targets on the team that year behind Robbie chosen. And then in 2021 the other year under Joe Brady, he had 163 targets, which is by far.
- [41:01]
B
He wasn't Robbie chosen at that point.
- [41:02]
A
Brady was willing to use him as a number one guy.
- [41:05]
C
Yeah. Was he Robbie with a Y or
- [41:07]
B
Robbie with an Robbie Anderson? Like 17 different names with this dude. Yeah, he's legitimately. I don't remember Robbie Anderson chosen. Anderson and Robbie chosen. Like the dude's legit had four names.
- [41:21]
A
Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I. I remember him as Robbie Anderson. I don't remember when he changed the name though. But yeah. So the point is that Joe Brady has been willing to use DJ Moore as like a guy getting like legitimate number one target share in the past. Now this is you know, five years ago, but worth bringing up there. So I like DJ more quite a bit. Well, I want to loop together two rookie receivers here that are both on our list. Jordan Tyson and Makai Lemon. Tyson is wide receiver 35. His best ranking is wide receiver 29. His worst is wide receiver 46. Makai Lemon is wide receiver 39 overall. His best is also wide receiver 29. His worst is even lower at wide receiver 52. I know, Jake, that you have been kind of the pro Lemon guy. Do you have him higher than Jordan Tyson? Again, we're talking redraft here, not dynasty. But you have Lemon higher than Tyson. Or do you think it's correct that Tyson is a few spots better?
- [42:20]
B
No, I do have him higher, but I go Lemon, Tate, Tyson, legit back to back to back. They're 1, 2, 3. If you want to argue for any of the three, I'm not going to say my big spiel and hate campaign and everything like that. That people have seen the videos of the shows I've already been on on here is not so much the fact that Lemon definitively needs to be in front of the other two. Like I said, I have them back to back to back. They're in the same tier. If you want to argue for the others, I'm cool with it. The biggest argument has been people burying Lemon because they hate Jalen Hurts so much. Jalen Hurts does not throw over the middle at a high rate. Jalen Hurts actually throws over the middle at one of the best efficiencies. Touchdown rates, all. Like, I don't want to go through all the metrics again. I've already done it. The point being, and you also to talk about what you do is a GM who hates giving up picks. We're talking about Howie Roseman, who actually, like, is one of the best drafters of the past decade. Question mark. You don't send two fourth rounders to move up three spots to a division rival to take Lemon and be like, he doesn't fit our offense. Get out of here. Like, they're going to change things. So anyway, I go Lemon, Tate, Tyson. The biggest obvious difference is I have Lemon way ahead of most. I know there's some people like actually not even the highest on Lemon. Surprisingly enough, I'm very close to it, but I'm not. Tate is a few spots behind consensus. Tyson's actually right online. He's at 35. So again, if you want to argue for all of them, and I'm interested to see who Andrew likes the most out of the three, because I can see a case for all three. That biggest. The Lemon thing had more to do with the hate for Lemon and Hertz than it did the three rookies in their own right.
- [44:03]
A
So if I'm asking draft or pass, it sounds like you would draft both. You just like Lemon better. He's the guy that stands.
- [44:09]
B
I know we're not even. We're not even bringing Tate into this conversation. So if it's like draft or pass, Lemon's my favorite at value. Tate's my least favorite at value, and I would take Tyson because he's right at value for me.
- [44:19]
A
Yeah. Tate's up at wide receiver 30, for what it's worth. A little bit less of a wide range, which is why I didn't include him in the conversation with these other two, but a few spots ahead in the rankings. Erickson, where are you at on Tyson vs Lemon and kind of drafting or passing on both these guys?
- [44:33]
C
I like them both at their respective costs. So I have Tyson ranked a little bit ahead, but I'm ahead of ecr, I think, on all three guys because I. I think that they're coming at a pretty good value. Tate is viewed as the highest ranked guy because he's dropped in as the viewed number one. And we see this all the time with these talented rookie receivers that come in that well, they're not the number one on their team. And then it doesn't matter because they're good number one and number two. We see offenses all the time support more than one fantasy asset. So that's the only thing for Lemon, to me, that how will he do in his rookie year where we've seen this before, when a rookie receiver that is talented gets dropped in an offense that there are two other established pass catchers that are ahead of him. Now, Dallas Goddard is kind of the wild card in that scenario. Where is Dallas Goddard so good that he would see more targets than Makai Lemon? I don't know if I buy into that. I do think Devontae Smith is ready to take that step to be the number one receiver on the Philadelphia Eagles. More so than. Well, not really more so than Chris Olave, but I think with Tyson, I like him more as a top 10 pick. You just look at the average production of receivers that were drafted in the top 10 last five drafts. Averages 78 catches, over a thousand yards, 6.4 touchdowns as rookies. So that's fantasy wide receiver two, production out of the oven just from being a top 10 overall pick. And why I like Tyson because He's viewed as the number two on his team behind Chris Olave. That just naturally suppresses his price. Whereas if Tyson, if Chris Olive was out of the equation, Tyson would probably be what I receiver 20. I'd receiver 21. He would be way up there because, oh, he's going to get all the volume. When you look at how much this Saints offense could throw in 2025 referencing or excuse me, 2026 referencing Mike Clay's projections, he has Jordan Tyson, I believe at wide receiver 37 in his projections and I'm just using that as a way to capture if the Saints offense is pass heavy, they're running up tempo, it's pretty easy for him to crack the top 40. So when I see his ECR right around I receive for 35, I think that's pretty accurate and spot on.
- [46:46]
A
I don't know if he'd be a size like wide receiver 20 without a lava because that's essentially Cardinal Tate is in a situation where it's like there's no real competition and he's only wide receiver 30 Robinson.
- [46:56]
B
But Brian Dable didn't essentially for all intensive purposes bring him with him to not yet like he loves but he's
- [47:03]
A
not on the level of like an Olive. He's not like no dominant number one.
- [47:06]
B
No. But I think that's where I come like my pushback for Andrew would be on the Lemon situation is I think we're all assuming A.J. brown's gone. He's probably sitting with his bags packed right next to him as we're doing this.
- [47:17]
C
He's at Logan. He's. He's checking. He's. He's at the.
- [47:20]
B
He's just, just waiting for that. He's just waiting to go.
- [47:22]
C
Waiting for the rental car.
- [47:24]
B
He probably already shopped the house. He probably already has a house that's already ready to go up in New England.
- [47:29]
A
He's. You're saying he's at the Hertz checkout. He's already checked out of playing with her. So I will tell you that.
- [47:34]
B
There you go. Yeah, nicely done on that one. But what I was going to say is like if you look at Devonte Smith and A.J. brown's target over targets over 17 game paces the past three years, A.J. brown's essentially right around 138 and Devontae Smith is around 117. So even if Devontae Smith takes that one for A.J. brown and Lemon just walks into the 117, that's where my excitement is. And I think that 117 could be at best like or at worst the same as Tate being the one like with Kim Ward. Like maybe I'm crazy and wrong on that one and ward somehow gets 130 targets to Tate, then I would clearly take Tate number one. I just think Wanda was going to take enough. And I do agree with Andrew that Tyson is coming in as the two to Chris Olave, which should have similar target shares. So where I come down to that, which has been my entire argument at the time, is that if they're both around 115 to 120 targets, Tyson Talent over Lemon. Yeah, they were on the same tier for me, but I would take Tyson the talent over Lemon, but I'm taking Hertz over Shook every single time. Granted, I think a lot of people are just excited and projecting a lot out for Shuck because it surprised us so much. But and I hope he's good and I hope he carries over into next season, but we're taking a career of hurts over essentially a half season a Shook.
- [48:54]
A
I think just to put a bow on this, like as a general rule, I'm kind of very willing to go down with the ship of just blindly saying if a guy is taken with a top 20 pick in the draft and his ECR is in the 30s, like as a rookie at receiver, I'm just very willing to make that bet like across the board. As a general rule. I feel like it pays out more often than it doesn't when the price is a little bit suppressed like that relative to the draft.
- [49:16]
B
Well, and that's a good way to put it real quick. Sorry that you put in the bow on it. I do want to add to that is that Marvin Harrison was a disappointment as a fringe wide receiver two or three where he was drafted and expected, but he was still like in this range of the like if this was the cost of Marvin Harrison, everybody wouldn't have been so upset about him for his rookie season.
- [49:33]
A
Yeah, yeah. I feel like the last couple of years too, I've been like, this is the cheapest Malik Neighbors will ever be. This is the cheapest Tedeuro will ever be. And these guys maybe aren't aren't at that level so much of prospects. But like again, when you have this kind of draft capital and a ranked where you are, I think that's really enticing for all three of them. Let's quickly hit one more receiver here. Parker Washington. We talked a little bit about Brian Thomas Jr. On a different episode that we taped earlier today. Short form. Hope everybody checks that out. On YouTube. But Parker Washington does have a pretty wide range here. He's wide receiver 41. His highest is wide receiver 31. His lowest is wide receiver 52. Erickson, what do you think about Washington?
- [50:11]
C
I think he's a player that I need to move up my rankings after we talked about him a little bit on the Brian Thomas show. Wide receivers that are going to be busts in 2026, go check it out. Washington in the projections that Mike Clay did, wide receiver 31, that's really strong and that's matching his best here. And Mike Clay with projections. I know Jake knows this, but projections are just trying to capture a median outcome, not, oh, this is his high range of outcomes when he's doing projections, just, okay, this is what he did last year. This is how offense is going to throw this much. Trevor Lawrence, this many pass attempts. Parker Washington spits out wide receiver 31 for that to match his best. That's really eye opening to me that his best is a median range outcome for Parker Washington. When you look at the game logs the last four games over 87 receiving yards, this dude was absolutely cooking. And so much of it has to do with his chemistry with Trevor Lawrence and even going back to 2024, who filled an admirably when Christian Kirk got hurt yet again, Parker Washington. So I, I think he's a player that I definitely need to move up and I guess I'm still torn on him versus Jacoby Myers because I like Jacoby too. I think he's always been an underrated wide receiver. But maybe the fact that Washington does play a little bit more in the slot where Liam Cohen has just schemed up a lot of his touches too for wide receivers. Travis Hunter, if he's playing more or focusing more on corner, not as much of a wide receiver, does that allow more targets for Parker Washington? I think so, potentially. So he's someone that I think is going pretty late and I still a young player, not someone that is 29, 30 years old that's kind of popped out of nowhere. So someone to be excited about. So I'm interested to hear what else Jake has to say about him as well.
- [51:49]
B
Yeah, check out the short form one where he went a little bit more in depth for Brian Thomas. But I went and I checked ahead of time to see where people ranked in comparison to me. Debro is ahead of me. Dalton Del Don's ahead of me. My cohort over at the Athletic function is just behind me. And there's only one person that is lockstep with me at wide receiver 38, it's Mr. Joe B. Zabitz. So there you go. I think I have the highest of the three Jaguars wide receivers, as I mentioned on that other show. And it really comes down to everything Andrew said. He echoed a lot of what I said on that other show, including the fact that he's not like some breakout in his age 29 season. That just kind of was a fluke situation. He just fits what Cohen and Lawrence does. And one of my big takeaways from that show, if you don't want to watch it, is Lawrence is a very quick first read type of get the ball out. He doesn't sit in the pocket and wait too long when he's been comfortable and he has finally been comfortable and that was part of his breakout last year. So he's making his first second reads and it's gone. And he has no time to find Brian Thomas 20 yards downfield just because he's not even looking there because he's already completed a pass to Parker Washington or Jacoby Meyer. So that's why I have him the highest of all three. And that actually, as Andrew brought up, makes me feel even better about him. That Clay's. I haven't finished my projections yet, but that Clay has him at wide receiver 31. That's. That's encouraging.
- [53:05]
A
Yeah, those three guys are all within four spots amongst receivers. Brian Thomas at 38, Myers at 40, Parker Washington 41. Jake has that reversed with Washington at the top of his rankings. Let's do one tie to end here. Ironda Gadsden, I wanted to talk about him. We weren't totally sure which tight end we were going to include here. He does have a pretty wide range. He's tight end 10. His best is tight at 8. His worst is tight end 20. But he's also kind of a discussion point this week because of the David and Joku edition for the Chargers. So Jake, I'll start with you on this one. How do you see that NJOKU edition affecting where you're going to be ranking Gadsden and where are you ranking him for the season?
- [53:41]
B
So that updated. By the way, I am not the lowest ranker, but I'm close to it. The lowest ranker is right there if you want to talk to him and ask how far he moved him down because I thought I was going to be the low man at 24 and Andrew got him even behind that. I have names in front of him like Akonkwu with Washington, Sadiq the rookie and even his new teammate in Joku. And that's really what it comes down to. I know this, this ranking is. A lot of people haven't updated yet, but if you look at this situation, when we go back to Herbert, you know, I talk about this entire team. There's a lot of two tight end sets possibly coming around the NFL, let alone what this team now make up. It was looking like it's going to do and it was going to be hard for us to count on who was going to be the number two. The excitement for Gadsden was that he could be the number two to McConkey, ahead of Quentin Johnson, ahead of Trey Harris and ahead of all the rest. Like, it could be a situation of like Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelsey. That is so far not the case. Like there was still hope with Kohler coming in and that, you know, he's just basically a blocking tight end. But you add in Joku too, who is kind of like all around and still pretty good in the passing game. I don't see how Gaston is even on our radar at this point. And it's a big testament to, like I said, I'll have a lot of McConkey as a bounce back, especially in this offense under Mike McDaniel, but that's probably going to be the end of it. It's going to be McConkey, maybe some Herbert at the values there, some of the backfield with Hampton, everything but is going to be, in my opinion, a cluster of grossness of everybody else.
- [55:15]
A
Erickson, what do you think? I mean, from what Jake just said, obviously he's kind of spoiling that you're quite low.
- [55:21]
C
There are just so many other tight ends that the path to fantasy relevance seems so much clearer than Gadsden. Right. How many things does he need to necessarily hit? And we're at a point too with some of these late round tight ends where all you do is care about ceiling. Right. We come out week one, he's running 80 of the routes. That's all he's doing. He's in this hybrid slot role. Okay. You can kind of change your perspective because I do think, Jake, I wanted to get your thoughts on this. Do you think he's going to run more routes than David and Joku?
- [55:46]
B
Not. Not at this point.
- [55:47]
C
That's where I. You don't. You don't think that. And just because he's playing less snaps overall, because he's not playing.
- [55:52]
B
I don't even know. Yeah, I don't even know if he's on the field as much as Kohler at this point like this just.
- [55:57]
C
But Kohler blocking would be blocking.
- [56:00]
B
Yeah, no, I know but not on the field so he's not going to be on the field so he can't run routes. That's really what it comes down to. It comes back to the age old argument that I always bring up. The example of Brayton O.J. howard with the Bucks is like we always wanted more and more for either of them but OJ Howard was such a good blocker that he wouldn't come off the field but he also wouldn't run the routes because he was blocking. But that still hurts the snaps of both of them. So I actually think at this point the makeup of this team looks like maybe we get some three tight end sets out of them because I referenced it with Herbert. They were dead last and using two tight ends last year, let alone three. Maybe we do see some three and they copied the Rams. But whatever it might be, I think Gaston as of right now you don't make that Njoku signing if you really thought that Gaston was ready to be which we all did. Admittedly I thought there was a ceiling for Gasson here and I still do. But Njoku would have to get hurt
- [56:44]
C
at this point point which that is possible. He got hurt last year and we, we saw Harold Fannin basically take his job. So that's another thing too. You got to consider Joku like how much does he have left in the again he's not all by tight end standards. He's going to turn 30 this year and he's a player that I think for the most part has been a pretty efficient player throughout his career. Really good out yards after the catch obviously didn't work out finally with Cleveland but. But it's with both these guys they're both healthy. You can't really touch either.
- [57:15]
B
Go back to your first argument that
- [57:16]
C
there are so many.
- [57:17]
B
That was a really good point. Where's the path? You know like you say for a conquest you could say well the path is Antonio Williams is a disappointment as a rookie and he's forced to be the two after Terry McLaurin Sadiq comes in and is actually the two even at the fact that they have another rookie next to Garrett Wilson. So I think like you all look at the fact that another wide receiver next to Wilson like you look at all these situations and like Hawkinson maybe maybe their shift in offense goes to what Kyler Murray does well and all of a sudden Addison falls to the three and Hawkinson's back in play. Getting 110 targets. I'm not saying all of those things are definitively going to happen, but I just don't want to gloss over what I thought you made was a really good point is we need to create the narrative with these flyers. What's the path that gets him to be in a tight end one? And I think at this point I can't see a path for Gasson.
- [58:03]
C
He is definitely behind my favorite light run, tight end Greg Dulcich.
- [58:06]
A
So you do love Dulcich.
- [58:08]
B
I've already heard there's a path for him to be the two out of three.
- [58:12]
C
Exactly, man.
- [58:13]
B
The path.
- [58:13]
C
It's so easy.
- [58:15]
A
All right, those were our polarizing players we are either drafting or passing on. Let's wrap up with some mailbag questions. We opened it up on Twitter. Slash X. So thanks everybody for sending in your questions Here. We got a handful of them for us. Let's actually start with one on a player we kind of talked about a little bit already a contending roster. Does this person keep RJ Harvey as their RB4 or 5 or should they sell Harvey for some draft capital? Obviously talking about in a dynasty league. So if you're a contending roster, Erickson, would you keep RJ Harvey as your RB4 or 5 or just try and sell them for what you can?
- [58:49]
C
I think I would keep him. I think that having good running back depth is solid and Harvey in a pinch he's going to catch passes. So I don't think he's ever going to totally zero out or dud out in a lineup if you need running back production, especially as an RB4 or 5. So I think I'd probably just keep him. Especially because I don't think his stock right now is oh, I want to get RJ Harvey on my fantasy team. I think it's pretty low. So I think you are selling for pennies on the dollar.
- [59:13]
A
How do you feel, Jake?
- [59:15]
B
I would, I would agree that now is not the best time unless there's somebody out there who's willing to give you like a mid 1st X year, then I would because I'm always looking to, especially if I have depth. I'm always looking to trade running backs and I don't even mean young ones because we've seen recently, just the past couple of years, like how things can change. I mean, I know he's not super young, but just look at Algier. Algier went like this. He was like, oh my God, back up. Oh my God, he's going to be late. Oh My God, he's back up again. Like running backs change so much so frequently in fantasy that if I can get value I will always do it. But I agree with Erickson is I don't think you're going to get a mid first so I wouldn't right now unless you do get that value value
- [59:53]
C
or yes or SD bro.
- [59:57]
A
Another dynasty question from the same person which is at retired swim guy by the way, where do Tyson and Lemon rank versus the incoming 2027 receivers? Obviously anybody you ask about is going to rank lower than Jeremiah Smith for just about anybody you ask. Cam Coleman is ranked very highly as well in terms of next year's class. Beyond that, I think it gets a lot more interesting of like kind of this year's first rounders compared to next. So. So Jeremiah Smith and I think probably Cam Coleman definitely higher than Tyson and Lemon. But what about kind of the rest of the class? Where were these guys fit in for you?
- [60:26]
C
Jake?
- [60:28]
B
I would actually just say only Smith at this point because like and Coleman as of right now doesn't look like there's a question that he won't be the number two. But we've seen things change and what if Coleman goes the route of casing Concepcion and a team we're just like oh my God, he's like the third, you know, not even something like that. A Dunes A just did it. Jackson, Smith and Jigba took two or three years like just to get their peak value and we haven't even seen it from A Dunes A and all Luther Burden just last year like all these wide receivers going into situations where they're the three and we have to wait a year and that's the only reason I bring it up because let's just say he ends up a team where he's the three and yeah, he's a top 15 wide receiver in 2028. But now you're giving up two years of potential production for that and I know the value at that point would be higher, but that's why I would say the only one would be Smith because I think no matter what team he's on, he's going to be exceptional. I would take all three rookies and then I would start talking about Coleman and the rest.
- [61:25]
A
Erickson, I don't know how much you are looking ahead. Obviously you do a lot of dynasty stuff, but I think you're more year to year. So do you have a lot of insight on the 2027 class yet?
- [61:36]
C
I know that the Alabama wide receiver changed his last name.
- [61:39]
A
Yeah, Ryan Williams.
- [61:42]
B
I just added.
- [61:42]
C
That's about the extent. That's about the extent that I know this class outside of Jeremiah Smith.
- [61:47]
B
So, I mean, that's a good example. Well, you know enough to say, like, that's just a good example. Just late last year, so not this past year. 2025, 2024. Like Ryan Williams was.
- [61:57]
A
Thought he was wide conversations.
- [61:59]
B
Yes. So, like, that's my challenge.
- [62:01]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [62:03]
C
So he changed his name. Now I'm like, wait, I thought this was Ryan Williams. So what is his real.
- [62:07]
A
I believe it's Ryan Coleman Williams. That could be with a hyphen.
- [62:10]
C
Oh, my God. Wait, so you guys were talking. Wait, were we talking about this guy? Yeah, you guys talking about Camp Coleman
- [62:16]
A
and Ryan Coleman Williams are two different people, but yes, yes, that is the same.
- [62:20]
B
Oh, you mean we were talking. I thought you meant the same guy as you. Yes. No, we weren't talking about the same wide receiver.
- [62:26]
C
Guys. I have not been sleeping. I can't talk 20, 27.
- [62:31]
A
The short answer is these guys are not even close to Jeremiah Smith because Jeremiah Smith, like, whatever receiver you want to throw out there. Jamar Chase, Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson. These are the names that people are talking about. Jeremiah Smith.
- [62:41]
C
Which junior's coming out this year? Someone's kids coming out? Is it Larry Fitzgerald's kid? Is he coming?
- [62:46]
A
That I actually don't know off the top of my head. Maybe.
- [62:48]
C
I don't know. Is he not. Isn't he Notre Dame?
- [62:53]
A
Let's go. Let's go to the next question. We're losing ourselves here, Jake.
- [62:58]
C
It's like when you're so. When you're so tired, everything just.
- [63:01]
B
Don't worry. They're just gonna cut this after.
- [63:02]
A
In post, Jake actually just mentioned a Dunes. They. We have a question on him from Tim. At what point are we removing the blinders on Roma Dunes? They got offered Kyron Williams and Josh Downs for him in Dynasty Super Flex. Full ppr. Erickson, what do you think about that?
- [63:18]
B
What does the remove the blinders mean?
- [63:20]
A
Not 100 sure what direction they're going with that, but what do you think about the trade itself? A dudes in. And this is Dynasty Super Flexible ppr A Dunes A for Kyron Williams and Josh Downs.
- [63:31]
C
So I think he means by blinders remove, the fact that he was a top.
- [63:35]
A
Just thinking like, yeah, kind of overrating
- [63:37]
C
production, which, I mean, you look at his production before he got hurt last year, it's pretty good.
- [63:42]
A
I think he's closer to that than he is to how he finished. Like I, I, I am yeah really interested in buying a Dunes A in every Dynasty league I can this year.
- [63:50]
C
I mean when you just look at the Bears offense, he's clearly the best value and it's not even like close. Just, just even if there are so many vacated targets in that offense from Zacchaeus, from DJ Moore, leaving that even Burden and Colson Lovin like taking a leap or having significant roles, Odunze is still going to be a big part of that offense.
- [64:09]
A
Plus just year two under Ben Johnson. I think the offense, there will be more scoring opportunities. I think it'll take a step forward like Kayla Williams and that will help Rome.
- [64:16]
C
That being, that being said, Kyron is a good asset to have running back. He's going to get you production top 15 most likely. And I love Josh Downs. Yeah love buying Josh Downs and Dynasty. So I think this is a pretty fair trade and if I really needed running backs I think I would just take Kyron and add Josh Downs as a wide receiver piece.
- [64:35]
B
I actually think it's a little unbalanced. Like that's thing like it's so it's not mutually exclusive to me. And the fact that like I think A Dunes A is being undervalued because people forgot how good he was and then the injury at the end of the season, I mean the good wasn't 100% healthy and there's a lot of factors going into that team as well. So I like A Dunes a lot. I want to be shocked. I'm surprised. But I wouldn't be shocked if A Dunes and Burden are both top 20 wide receivers this year. I'd be a little because Colson Loveland would have to take a seat as the third and I think that's the biggest factor we're talking about here. But when it comes to Dunes A, if you're getting Kyron and Downs, I'm taking that 10 times out of 10 because I think that's, I think A Dunes is undervalued. But that's a hell of value for Dunes A like that. I feel like to balance that, I feel like you need a late second with a Dunes A just to balance that in general. And I'm with you like Downs is walking as the number two. But I think, I think the problem is like take the blinders off on Kyron. Why does everybody want to hate Kyron year after year after year after year? People want to hate Kyron. So I think the own Dunes A side actually needs a little bit more to make that a balanced trade. So if he's getting the duo, take it.
- [65:40]
A
Two more questions here. One dynasty, one redraft. The dynasty question, how should leagues handle the Brendan Sorsby situation? For those who haven't been paying attention, quarterback who was going to be in next year's class but is going through some legal stuff with. He checked himself into a gambling addiction rehab and might, you know, kind of bring back the supplemental draft, which we haven't had in a couple years for the NFL. So if he does go into the supplemental draft, how are you guys handling that in dynasty leagues? My quick answer would be like, I think you could do whatever you want as long as the league agrees to it. You could have your own supplemental draft. Like people can actually bid on what picks are willing to give up next year for him. I think you, if you have a waiver system that your waivers are already live now for the regular season, you just put them on waivers and let people use their fab on them. I think you could wait until week one and say, hey, use your in season fab on him to do this. The one thing I wouldn't do is use offseason fab because there's not really that much incentive to keep your offseason fab. And I think everybody would just bid all of it. But I think any other kind of scenario, I, I think, I think you have flexibility as a league commissioner and as a league and just kind of vote and see what everybody feels like. Do you guys have any thoughts on the situation? Erickson, Jake, either of you, I don't
- [66:48]
C
know if it's just going to be like as simple as he just doesn't play college football and just enters the supplemental draft and faces no punishment from the NFL. Or I just don't think it's as like, oh, copy and paste. He's good to go and he's going to go to a team for a 20, 27 third round pick. He could end up on an NFL team, but I think there's more hurdles for him to have to overcome. So I think that there's going to be more information to follow with with however the path kind of plays out. But I agree with you. Wormware. Open up to a vote with a couple of the options that you just listed out. You have this auction. I like the idea of kind of doing a your own supplemental draft for fun again. Throw some other veterans in. Give. Wait, what's so wrong with having another draft in your dynasty league? Like we're sitting around making trades. Like let's, let's do More drafts, like why not? So maybe that can be a fun way to spin it.
- [67:37]
A
Jake, any thoughts?
- [67:39]
B
So I'm going to make my comparison would be redrafts from last year with the Judkins situation. So if you're in the middle of a draft and that Judkins news dropped, I saw it as that Judkins should be thrown to waivers. He shouldn't be part of the draft because nobody would be sitting there. Like you just threw off the value of so many things. And as it wasn't just Judkins, it was Judkins and the backfield. Like there's a lot of picks and then whoever's sitting on the clock when the Judkins news came out, this isn't normal off season news when I bring up because I think it's a similar parallel. So I would say if you're in the middle of a draft when it happens to have happened, I would say he's not part of the draft and then I agree with you guys is kind of get a consensus of the league. My recommendation would be that like kind of like either put him into a supplemental draft where like now everybody's made their cuts because it's dynasty. So people are going to have to make cuts, maybe have one round of a supplemental and use fab. So it's not just whoever's number one just takes them on something like that. But FAB to what you said, Worm, I would say it's the FAB that you're going to have to spend in the season too. So if somebody wants to blow 100% of their budget, they don't have moves for the rest of the year. That type of situation, I think that's the fairest if it was my choice. But again, it really comes down to what does your league think? Get an agreement from your league.
- [68:53]
A
Yeah, this is it. And he's not the type of prospect that I don't think it should cause too much infighting. Like right in Super Flex, obviously you want to take swings, but. All right, last one quickly here.
- [69:03]
C
Well, actually Worm, I got one. I just want one other thing. It just popped in my head. Or what you could do as well. Instead of using bidding dollars, you use player values from the fantasy pros trade value chart. So whoever gives up the player with the most value for Soresby and then that player goes into waivers. So you basically get who. How bad do you want this player where you're giving up an actual asset that's in the NFL right now? I think that would be.
- [69:28]
A
I like I like creative stuff like that. That's fun. Last one here. It's a redraft question. This person with the seventh pick in a 12 man league, just standard half PPR redraft league. If Christian McCaffrey's pick one and Saquon Barkley is, is their second pick, so like their first rounder and their second rounder, who are you targeting in the third round? So again, to pair with CMC and Barkley? T. Higgins, Breeze Hall, Tet McMillan, Tucker Craft or Jeremiah Love? So again you're pairing this person with McCaffrey and Saquon, who would you be targeting in round three? T. Higgins, Breeze Hall, Tea McMillan, Tucker Kraft draft or Jeremiah Love? Jake, any thoughts?
- [70:03]
B
One is, I hate these questions. I'm sorry. No, no, no. Because number one, because you're trying to not only predict out your first two picks, you're trying to predict out the first three. You never ever know how the draft is going to fall. That being said, I'll still answer it. Like, I mean, make that clear is as much as that's a screaming value for Jeremiah Love, that's a tough decision that you're going to have to make at that point. Because if you take love, like, McMillan would be my pick as the best balance for my team, because I want to, I need a wide receiver. And there's a chance that McMillan turns into a wide receiver one this year. But Love at that point should not be sitting there. And I don't think he will be. But the problem is if you do take Love, you've just tied up your flex. So like, if a running, and this is my point about predicting drafts, a running back value of amazing running back value falls into like round six, there's nothing you can do about at that point. Like now you're really, really screwed if you try to make that pick because of what you're doing at your other positions. So McMillan for vacuum. It would actually be love, but McMillan makes the most sense for that team.
- [71:06]
A
Yeah. Erickson, what do you think?
- [71:09]
C
Well, you could spin it this way where you take the running back, whether it be Love, I Breeze hall over Love. So I would take Breeze hall. You have three running backs, then you trade McCaffrey for the best wide receiver
- [71:19]
B
you can get back. Yeah. Then people know you need to trade. And I hate that too.
- [71:24]
A
It depends on the league. Some leagues are so willing to trade and others are like, it's, it's like, you know, pulling teeth to get anybody to agree to a trade, especially if
- [71:31]
B
they, if you have smart managers and they see you do that, they know they, they should be like, holding you over.
- [71:36]
C
They're gonna be like, we're gonna, we're gonna box you into playing Jeremiah Love, Chris McCaffrey, Saquon Barkley.
- [71:41]
B
Every week just buy CMC for 90 cents on the dollar. Like just.
- [71:46]
A
Yeah. Erick, if you don't want to take a third running back, would you go McMillan? That would be my choice. Yeah. Okay. In agreement there. All right, thank you everybody for the questions. We love opening up the mailbag every now and again. And thank you everybody for checking out this full episode. For Erickson and Jake, I'm Ryan Wormley. We'll see you again next time. Thanks for listening to the Fantasy Pros Fantasy Football Podcast. If you love the show, the best free way to support us is by leaving a positive review on apple podcasts@fantasypros.com or on Spotify. Follow us on X Instagram and TikTok at Fantasy Pros and subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube.com fantasypros.
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