Week 14 Lineup Advice: Starts, Sits, Player Debates, and TD Calls (Ep. 1879)

Summary

FantasyPros Fantasy Football Podcast – Episode 1879

Week 14 Lineup Advice: Starts, Sits, Player Debates, and TD Calls
Date: December 5, 2025
Host: Ryan Warmley
Guests: Jake Seeley (The Athletic), Pat Fitzmaurice

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Overview

This episode dives into critical Week 14 fantasy football decisions as playoffs loom large. The crew tackles start/sit conundrums, dives into player debates at WR, RB, and QB, and calls their shots for likely touchdown scorers. With four teams on bye and key injuries everywhere, the hosts provide actionable, nuanced advice to help listeners survive and advance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Waiver Wire Priorities & Analysis

• Adonai Mitchell (Jets, WR)
  • Why He’s a Top Add:
    • Huge air yard share (59.9%), 29% target rate over the past three games, even if the conversion rate’s shaky.
    • Playable upside WR3/flex with lots of teams on bye ("If I’m chasing ceiling, I’m chasing Mitchell. If I don’t want the risk, he’s still risky.” – Jake, 05:55)
  • Long-term Outlook:
    • Both Jake and Pat see his value hinging heavily on the WR room and future QB play; likely a volatile WR4 next season.
• Jayden Higgins (Texans, WR)
  • Snaps/Workload Issue:
    • “Wish he was playing more than 60% of snaps, because he looks like a star in the making.” – Pat, 09:26
    • Not as strong a start due to limited routes and playing time.
  • Jake: “I would almost prefer Davis Mills be back at QB, at least he looked to Higgins more than Stroud.”
• Chris Rodriguez (Commanders, RB)
  • Consistent but uninspiring, strictly touchdown-dependent.
  • “If he gets a TD he’s RB24, if not, he’s still in that RB24 range… he doesn’t seem to do both at once.” – Jake, 11:55
    • Only an option if desperate or in standard scoring.

2. Plant-Your-Flag Players

• Jake: Chris Godwin (Bucs, WR)
  • “Suddenly, he looked explosive, separating like we remember. I’m locking him back as a WR2, maybe inside my top 20 this week.” – 14:28
  • A huge rank leap, despite consensus being much lower (ECR WR31).
• Pat: Jacoby Myers (Jaguars, WR)
  • “He and Trevor Lawrence have clicked instantly... he’s scored in two straight and is averaging almost 70 yards per game recently.” – 17:44
  • Feels safe if Parker Washington is inactive.

3. Running Back & Wide Receiver Debates

• Travis Etienne (Jaguars) vs. Kenneth Walker (Seahawks)

  • Pat leans Etienne: “He’s had a higher ceiling and hasn’t slipped below double-digit points as much.” – 23:25
  • Jake leans Walker: “I think the fear about Charbonnet overtaking Walker is overblown. It’s a close call, but I’m on the Walker side.” – 24:13

• Woody Marks (Texans) vs. Devin Neal (Patriots)

  • Marks: Pure grinder on the ground, little passing game work.
  • Neal: More value in passing formats—Tampa has given up 120 more RB receiving yards than any other team, boosting Neal’s floor (Pat, 29:24).

• Odunze (Bears) vs. DK Metcalf (Jets)

  • Both viewed as low-end WR3 plays due to poor QB play and/or target competition.
  • Fitz prefers Odunze due to being less mismatched with his QB (49:12).

4. Start/Sit Rapid Fire Calls

• Kareem Hunt (Chiefs) vs. Chris Rodriguez (Commanders)
  • Both are unexciting, but Hunt gets a slight edge for volume and minimal receiving (44:18).
• Zay Flowers (Ravens) vs. Kyle Manangai (Bears)
  • Mixed. Manangai slightly preferred by Jake for TD upside and weather/game script, but Pat favors Zay in half PPR due to catch floor.
  • “Zay’s a WR3 who just hovers in that range...I’ll lean to Manangai in a cold, run-heavy game.” – Jake, 49:44

5. Quarterback Dilemmas

• Lamar Jackson (Ravens) vs. Baker Mayfield (Bucs)
  • Lamar’s in a deep slump but still preferred by both:
  • “I’m taking the chance that Lamar’s anywhere near 100%. He’s still my start, even if he’s let people down lately.” – Jake, 60:32

6. Deep League/Desperation Plays

• Christian Watson (Packers, WR) vs. Ladd McConkey (Chargers, WR)
  • Watson preferred thanks to target surge and red zone looks. McConkey downgraded due to QB uncertainty, OL injuries, and tough matchup.

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Adonai Mitchell’s upside:
  “I’m not calling Adonai Mitchell a top-20 wide receiver. But if I’m chasing ceiling, I’m chasing Mitchell. If I don’t want the risk, he still falls in that risk bucket.”—Jake (05:55)
• Chris Godwin’s resurgence:
  “From the jump last week, I’m watching...and—oh my God—he looks explosive!”—Jake (14:28)
• Co-host banter on cold weather:
  Jake: “It’s supposed to be a high of twelve at game time—single digits. That’s a little chilly.”
  Pat: “We just call that a light windbreaker.” (52:07)
• On Lamar Jackson’s struggles:
  “The last three games: QB29, QB25, QB27. For me, it’s not even about running—it’s about his ability to evade pressure in the pocket.”—Ryan (61:32)
• Chris Rodriguez’s profile:
  “He gets the yards or the touchdown, but he doesn’t seem to be able to put both together.”—Jake (11:55)
• On Metcalf vs. Odunze:
  “I would be utterly shocked if Metcalf got hot again with [Aaron Rodgers]. But Odunze, he could get hot.”—Pat (49:12)
• Woody Marks profile:
  “Feels like empty calories, because the passing game work hasn’t been there and the goal-line work hasn’t been there.” – Ryan (31:28)

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Notable Timestamps

• 00:43 – Show begins, hosts catch up post-Thanksgiving
• 04:55 – Adonai Mitchell: Waiver add & week 14 start/sit breakdown
• 09:04 – Jayden Higgins discussed
• 11:55 – Chris Rodriguez analyzed
• 14:28 – Plant-Your-Flag: Chris Godwin
• 17:44 – Plant-Your-Flag: Jacoby Myers
• 23:25 – Etienne vs. Walker RB debate
• 29:24 – Woody Marks vs. Devin Neal debate
• 39:24 – Christian Watson vs. Ladd McConkey debate
• 44:18 – Kareem Hunt vs. Chris Rodriguez rapid start/sit
• 49:44 – Zay Flowers vs. Kyle Manangai
• 60:32 – QB dilemma: Lamar or Baker?
• 66:11 – Touchdown calls

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Summary Table: Lightning Start/Sit Recommendations

| Player 1 | Player 2 | Preferred | Notes | |---------------------|------------------|-----------|---------------------------------------------------------| | Adonai Mitchell | Jayden Higgins | Mitchell | Ceiling; both low-end starters this week | | Chris Godwin | Emeka Egbuka | Godwin | If healthy, WR2 upside for Godwin | | Travis Etienne | Kenneth Walker | Split | Pat-ETN, Jake-Walker; both flex range | | Chris Rodriguez | Kareem Hunt | Hunt | Slight edge for touches/receiving | | Odunze | Metcalf | Split | Pat- Odunze, Jake- Metcalf; both deep WR3 territory | | Zay Flowers | Kyle Manangai | Split | Pat-Zay (half PPR), Jake-Manangai (TD upside) | | Ladd McConkey | Christian Watson | Watson | Target leader, red zone presence | | Lamar Jackson | Baker Mayfield | Lamar | Still highest ceiling despite struggles |

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Closing Touchdown Calls (66:11)

• Jake: James Cook
  “Feels like a layup this week—cooked Bengals D.”
• Pat: Courtland Sutton
  “Reasserts himself as Broncos’ alpha—scores in back-to-back.”
• Ryan: Mark Andrews
  “Fresh extension—feels like a ‘get him going’ touchdown spot.”

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Tone & Banter

Lighthearted and knowledgeable; the hosts keep things fast-paced, self-effacing (“when I get this passionate, it always goes the other way”—Jake, 16:26), and honest about the uncertainty of fantasy football in December with injuries and byes everywhere.

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Bottom Line

• The hosts agree: Week 14 is one of the most challenging lineups of the season.
• Lean volatile ceiling plays (Adonai Mitchell, Chris Godwin) if you need to make up ground or swing your matchup.
• Don’t overreact to slumps from elite options like Lamar—unless you’ve got an obvious top-10 alternative.
• RBs getting volume and TD equity—even if uninspiring (Hunt, Rodriguez)—have value with limited options.
• QB uncertainty crushes WR floors (Ladd McConkey, Justin Jefferson), be wary.
• Lean on established volume, especially at WR and RB, with formats dictating final start/sit calls.

“At this time of year, sometimes you just need six points—so you start Chris Rodriguez.” —Jake, 11:55

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For more detailed ranks & tools, check out FantasyPros.com/rankings and use the Start/Sit Assistant for personalized lineup help. Good luck in Week 14!

Transcript

[Ryan Warmley]

This is an i heart podcast guaranteed.

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[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Wilson from show me something the second.

[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Jake Seeley]

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[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Beef is warm and juicy it's like soul therapy and if you're feeling a little extra like we usually are go.

[Sophie Cunningham]

For the double dude double roast beef double beef and cheddar twice the meat twice the happiness you know what you.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Want get an arby's double roast beef or a double beef and cheddar in store or delivered today available for a.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Limited time at participating locations while supplies.

[Ryan Warmley]

Last hello everybody welcome into the fantasy pros football podcast i'm ryan warmly joined by jake seeley from the athletic and by pat fitzmaurice guys it has been a minute since we have done a show with the three of us there were some technical difficulties going on then of course we had the holiday where we took break on thursday hope everybody enjoyed their thanksgivings with their family their friends their football all that fun stuff their food as well how'd you guys enjoy your thanksgiving here jake what'd you.

[Jake Seeley]

Do typical family stuff and celebrated my fifty seventh birthday for everybody that's trying to guess it's not close to that.

[Ryan Warmley]

But i don't believe that for what.

[Jake Seeley]

Some somewhere in between thirty seven and fifty seven i'll give you that idea but it was a good weekend because that i still had the leftover cheesecake that we finally finished cinnamon roll just cheesecake that we finally finished off yesterday nice my mom makes it from scratch.

[Ryan Warmley]

Fitz you look great for fifty seven.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

How are you doing doing well yeah we we spent our thanksgiving fostering a dog from the animal shelter where my wife volunteers that we have since adopted so i should have known it was like less than a one percent chance we wouldn't wind up adopting this dog and sure enough what kind yeah congrats it's a lab retriever that's what it's listed i think there's probably some pit bull in there too it's he's a.

[Jake Seeley]

Mod leverage you enjoy the hair for.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

The rest of your life i know that's the thing our other dog is a doodle so there's no hair whatsoever like no shedding and yeah this guy is this guy's going to shed there's.

[Ryan Warmley]

No question yeah congrats to you and to your new dog nolan for getting a new a nice home he really does fitz was sending me pictures yesterday he there's a lot of stuff that's different about him and my dog wally but the ears do look very similar when they when they kind of perk up they look really identical i think.

[Jake Seeley]

I think the bigger question for you worm is like do you even know this reference to this do you know what star wars is since you don't.

[Ryan Warmley]

Know what i know what star wars is.

I you know look i we did a we did an eighties and i know star wars came out the seventies but we did an eighties and nineties.

Like trivia thing with seth and debro on one of their twitch streams and they had me and erickson join because they were like oh the young guys they never know anything and i stomped all of them i just want that on record that i the i missed the i missed questions on toys like the cabbage patch kids and questions on like older video games but every tv and movie question and pop culture i got right so do you generally.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Do you know which characters which star wars characters call endor home the ewoks.

[Ryan Warmley]

Very good i played like star wars battlefront two on the computer growing do.

[Jake Seeley]

You know the original song at the end of return of the jedi from the ewoks that they ruined and replaced do you remember that one.

[Ryan Warmley]

Like what it's called no like the yub yub.

[Jake Seeley]

Do you actually remember the yub yub.

[Ryan Warmley]

Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah see okay you've redeemed yourself in the background on the video game which is how i know it but okay i'm sure nobody cares about this here in week fourteen they are ready for us to get stuff some fantasy talk so apologies to everybody for that detour reminder that all of our twenty twenty five consensus rankings and tiers can be found at fantasypros dot com rankings this is our must starts must sits waiver ads and touchdown calls show here we pack a lot into our thursday episodes we're going to start with the waiver ads as we usually do and kind of ask if we're willing to start these guys and guys it is week fourteen so we are at the point where like this is do or die for a lot of teams you either don't really care about this week because you're kind of locked into your standing or or this is like the start of the playoffs essentially for you and there are four teams on by i forgot to write them down it's the the patriots the niners the giants and the panthers are the four so those are the teams that are not playing this week you have any of those players in your lineups be sure to take them out guys let's start with the waiver ads here like i mentioned ad and i mitchell had a bit of a breakout here in his last game really strong performance over one hundred yards and a touchdown jake i'll start with you is he somebody that here in week fourteen with four teams on by that you're willing to consider starting i am mostly.

[Jake Seeley]

Because you saw the first game seven targets only two receptions mostly because of his own fault then he has seven targets two receptions somewhat his fault somewhat tyrod taylor's fault and then i keep going back to him so the three games since he's been playing for the jets actually on the field twenty nine point eighteen target percentage that's sixth in the league oh by the way fifty nine point nine percent of his team's air yards is number one in the league over again it's a three game stretch but my point here is that they're going to him they're going to him and then they're going to him again even if it's not connecting i drew the comparison as what's the big difference between adonai mitchell and alec pierce or torrey franklin when troy franklin was troy franklin and that kind of gives you the idea of like look it's not a guarantee i'm not calling adaine mitchell a top twenty wide receiver this isn't somebody also though that we've never thought has talent like he has talent it just hasn't connected in the nfl he's flashed at times with the colts before he's with the jets so in the wide receiver three low end conversation when we have all those teams on a buy as that boomer bust play most weeks a wide receiver for a k sean booty type yeah i'm willing to play it because it's going to be one of those situations if i'm chasing ceiling i'm chasing mitchell if i don't want the risk he still falls.

[Ryan Warmley]

In that risk bucket fitz adonai mitchell is wide receiver twenty nine in ecr he was wide receiver thirty four to start the week so he's gone up five spots here just in the last couple of days in fact he's now one spot behind roma dunes which if you told me that a month into the season i would have thought you were crazy but wide receiver twenty nine that's kind of in that range where you could go either direction depending on what the rest of your team looks like do you have him ranked in a similar range is he somebody you're willing to start here this week if.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

You need the spot yeah wide receiver thirty one is that about where you.

[Jake Seeley]

Are jake yeah very close yeah right in that same range right like right on the cusp of that thirties yeah.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Yeah and i did pick him up in like three leagues this week and in the leagues where i did i'm very desperate at wide receiver because of buys and in injuries leagues where i have stefan diggs and tedrome mcmillan i think a lot of the new ad mitchell buyers are probably in pretty similar spots what i like here in addition to the air yards thing that jake mentioned the jets now have this very condensed passing game it's mitchell it's john metchie breece hall little bit of mason taylor that's pretty much it and tyrod taylor is giving the jets a functional passing game unlike justin fields.

Do you.

[Ryan Warmley]

Think that there's a chance this is like like when you look at this are you looking at this as more just an opportunity thing or like this is a guy who has a lot of athleticism and a degree of talent i mean this was like a second round pick in rookie drafts like the year he came out you know of the draft so jake to you is is adonai mitchell somebody that could be actually taking a legitimate step forward as like a long term fantasy asset or is this just like hey they have nobody in the passing game so we'll take advantage for a few weeks here maybe finish out the season with him and then next year like kind of falling back to earth how do you.

[Jake Seeley]

View this long term can i say that like i'm not trying to straddle the fence but somewhere in between it's not mutually exclusive to say that he can break out and be what we hope that he could be in the nfl as somebody who also still wasn't a complete prospect and isn't a complete wide receiver he still has his own faults it still isn't a complete route runner so all those things being said though like garrett wilson is still the number one on this team but also depends on what the quarterback situation is next year obviously none of us are assuming that right now the quarterback for the jets twenty twenty six is the quarterback on the team right now so that comes down to it if it was still a tie right like maybe they don't find a solution and maybe they draft somebody later and then they hold off for one more year and just let tyrod take the helm with garrett wilson back i think that ni mitchell being right now where we're talking about him as potentially pushing the top thirty he just falls into a wide receiver three or four next year with garrett wil mostly because even though as fitz brought up tyrod is making it somewhat of a capable passing offense it's still not a high volume one and one that's still going to lean on the backfield that also throws to breeze hall in that backfield so he falls into that wide receiver four but yeah if it's a if they end up with a top two pick and draft mendoza or even more or somebody like that you can see him in the wide receiver three conversation even with a healthy garrett wilson.

Fitz let's look at.

[Ryan Warmley]

Another receiver here this adonai mitchell was number one as the waiver wire pickup in the consensus rankings this week number two is jaden higgins he's wide receiver thirty six in the rankings for this week so again kind of in that range where depending on how badly you need the spot you might be forced to start him but you could go another direction maybe again depending on who you have so for you is higgins somebody that you're willing to consider starting in week fourteen yeah i'm right in.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Line with ecr i've got him at wide receiver thirty six two i i think jaden higgins is really good and has a bright future and i wish i had him in more dynasty leagues i just wish he were playing more than about sixty percent of the offensive snaps every game and he has been right right there at sixty percent like consistently every week and that's just how nick kaylee wants to run it he wants to give xavier hutchinson snaps too i don't know why because jaden higgins looks like he's a star in the making but.

That'S what's keeping higgins as sort of a low end wide receiver.

[Ryan Warmley]

Three for me jake what do you.

[Jake Seeley]

Think yeah i'm a little bit behind consensus mostly because of what fitz just said and this is coming from somebody that missed on higgins because i thought there was a good chance that he could be the number two from day one with no healthy tank dell because i compared him to marvin jones and like you put marvin jones back in his heyday on this team it is touchdown reliant like this is marvin jones only a thousand eleven hundred yards he's never going for fifteen hundred but i thought that was the perfect fit alongside nico collins and interesting enough that dame brugler my cohort the draft prospect guide of guides compared him to nico collins i thought that was a little bit aggressive but all that being said is the ilk is there of the skill set i agree with fitz and i would love to see more but at the same time it wasn't just the routes it's that even on fewer routes for hutchinson cj strauss still targeted hutchinson as much as he did jaden higgins like i would almost prefer davis mills being back at quarterback because at least he was targeting higgins more consistently than cj stroud is so i'm a little bit lower i don't have him outside of my top forty but i just i wish this was just a better scenario throw higgins on some of these other teams and he's in a better.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Case scenario marvin jones there's a name i've not heard a long time as.

[Jake Seeley]

A f doesn't it like can't you.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

See marvin jones yeah i do like.

[Ryan Warmley]

That comp a lot three touchdowns in his last six games but even with that he has not finished higher than wide receiver twenty two in that span of time and half ppr scoring so the ceiling just has not been there given the usage but we all like the player we'll see what the usage continues to look like i want to throw a running back in here chris rodriguez going up against the vikings this is somebody who like has he been the most efficient runner in the world no but he's getting the opportunity here for this offense he is you know getting the opportunity to score touchdowns as much as this offense is scoring touchdowns he's rb twenty seven here at minnesota jake what do you think about that is that too high too low just right is he somebody you're willing to.

[Jake Seeley]

Start i just looked that's actually right where i have him so i'm okay with it it's just rodriguez if he gets a touchdown he's like rb twenty four if he doesn't get his touchdown he's like rb twenty four like he gets the yards or the touchdown he doesn't seem to be able to put both together i think he has one top twenty performance and granted that came in now that he is the clear lead the commanders have clearly turned to rodriguez jakori krosky merit is more of a holden dynasty in keeper leagues for next year and maybe it clicks then but he's not happening we know mcnichols is a timeshare piece in the passing game so rodriguez is the lead but he's kind of in my opinion uninspiring lead he's somebody that if i just needed six points which how many times do you're like oh my god six points is going to make or break it for me then you put in rodriguez but that's why he's in that range like i have him right now with no trey benson one spot behind donovan knight one spot in front of david montgomery going tonight when we're recording this which might look foolish by the time because either david montgomery rb twenty eight is wrong either he's way higher or way lower like there's no in between for him but that kind of gives you the ideas like rodriguez on way more touches is kind of dave montgomery it's funny enough to say yeah.

[Ryan Warmley]

Fitz he's got eleven carries at least eleven carries in three of his last four games but to jake's point he has been inside the top twenty just once it was that game against seattle actually against a really good defense where he had sixty five yards in a touchdown even then he was just rb fifteen so a good day but it's not like he was you know inside the top ten or anything how do you see him is he somebody against a vikings defense that can be run on at times this season is he.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Somebody you're willing to start yeah so you mentioned at least eleven carries in three of his last four but he's only had more than twelve carries once this season topping out at fifteen so we can pretty much peg the tar the carry total at around ten to twelve there might not be a more format sensitive running back in the league right now for fantasy like in standard sure i'll start chris rodriguez half point ppr maybe full point ppr no thanks no interest in starting a guy who's got one catch all season so it really depends on the format but in in half ppr i'm right in line with jake and ecr i've got him running back twenty seven one catch he's.

[Ryan Warmley]

Caught half his targets fitz.

Yeah that one catch came in week eleven in miami that's not miami fifty percent catch rate.

Yeah i guess all right let's go to plant your flag players here jake who are you planting your flag on this week yeah so i'm going.

[Jake Seeley]

To chris godwin and it really comes down to i never thought i'd be saying this after what we saw earlier this year is the fact that chris godwin when he first came back all the way up to the point where he re aggravated the injury was like man chris godwin doesn't look right he doesn't look like chris godwin he doesn't look like healthy chris godwin and then last week from the jump in that game i'm watching it and i'm like oh my god he looks explosive like he was separating like separating like we remember chris godwin separating and the best part about it is baker mayfield went to him and then went to him again and then kept going to him and kept going to him kept going to him like wow this is this is the chris godwin remember who finished top three before the injury where it was baker mayfield just love looking his way and i'm not saying he's top three i'm not even putting him as a wide receiver one but i am locking him right back into wide receiver two because all i needed was a healthy chris godwin and maybe i'm overreacting to what i watched last week but he looked healthy and even if he's ninety five percent with baker look into him that comfort level there even if mike evans comes back i wouldn't trust mike evans in his first game back and i'm a little dubious if he's really coming back this week maybe next week but either way i think chris godwin is in the wide receiver to a conversation and potentially i'm starting him over at buka no question about it and i probably consider putting him inside my top twenty this week okay so.

[Ryan Warmley]

That that's very different than consensus in ecr he is wide receiver thirty one so in half ppr scoring for the week by comparison is up at wide receiver ibuka is up at thirteen so there's like almost twenty spots gap between.

[Jake Seeley]

How is ibuka thirteen what has he done in the last six weeks.

[Ryan Warmley]

A.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Lot of targets i don't totally disagree.

[Jake Seeley]

You know who else has a lot of targets trey tucker trey tucker has one double digit score since week thirteen i don't care if they're not good the targets are just falling on the.

[Ryan Warmley]

Ground we we do have more in ibuka coming up but it's interesting like the wide gap there and then and also even just setting a book aside the wide gap between where you are ranking godwin and where he is ranked.

[Jake Seeley]

Here before fitch jumps in even inside the top twenty because i'm so passionate about this ibuka is going to finish his wide receiver one and chris godwin's going to have forty yards and zero touchdowns so just letting you know because when i'm this passionate it just completely goes the other direction yeah fitz how.

[Ryan Warmley]

Do you see godwin specifically i mean like i said ranks why does he were thirty one here that's really low for where jake sees it it all.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Right so we we disagree on abuka we'll table that for now but i i agree with jake like godwin did look good i had the buccaneers on the quad box last week and i'm like wait is that chris godwin like he looks he looks fantastic all three of his catches went for more than twenty yards and he should have had a touchdown too he just dropped it i mean that's pretty rare for chris godwin too he's got a really reliable set of hands so i i saw the same thing jake did and but mike evans is practicing again i don't know if there's a chance he could be back this week but if he is man that's that's really going to complicate these godwin ebuka i'd slide him.

[Jake Seeley]

Back he'd be out he'd be outside my top twenty but he wouldn't be outside my top thirty maybe even top twenty five like it'd be enough to concern a little bit but i wouldn't slide him back egregiously.

Fitz who are.

[Ryan Warmley]

You planting your flag on well let's.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Go with the slot receiver motif jacoby myers and he and trevor lawrence have clicked pretty instantly lawrence just seems to be good with tight ends and the slot guys and outside receivers not so much so in four games with the jaguars myers has an eighty five point seven percent catch rate and is averaging eleven point seven yards per targets only played twenty seven snaps in his first game with jacksonville had forty one yards in the three games since he's averaged sixty eight yards and he's had a touchdown catch in each of the last two games so i am working on the assumption here that parker washington doesn't play he i don't think practiced on wednesday he left last week's game with a hip injury if he plays i'll probably have to you know chill out on jacoby myers a bit but right now i think he's a really good start this week against the colts wide.

[Ryan Warmley]

Receiver twenty two in ecr jake he's been inside the top twenty in each of the last two weeks getting a touchdown in each game where is he for you is he somebody that you're kind of on board with fits on this one or pushing against i am.

[Jake Seeley]

Just slightly behind but that's only because so my ranks will adjust i put drake london in for the argument like where would drake london rank so i put him in with that kind of conversation not that i necessarily expected t higgins is in with that situation marvin harrison is in so that right there would slide him up three spots and i say that to say because i also have godwin in front of him i'm technically behind consensus by three but i'd be right in line with it assuming those three guys are out and then the godwin situation notwithstanding so i'm with fitz in this and also look at the last two games trevor lawrence has been playing really well not necessarily so much in the completion department but in the red zone and the touchdown is that he's getting and this matchup similar to the past two weeks of what we've seen oh by the way jaguars at home against the colts i don't know if anybody's heard undefeated over the last however many games it's been so the jaguars are guaranteed to win but i'm with fitz is that the connection is definitely more there with jacoby myers and the slot work than it is with brian thomas can we get mac jones back for brian thomas like i have this signed football still sitting here i don't want to go waste.

[Ryan Warmley]

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[Jake Seeley]

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[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Jake Seeley]

And doug here we have the limu.

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[Ryan Warmley]

Guy with the binoculars watching us cut.

[Jake Seeley]

The camera they see us only pay for what you need at liberty mutual dot com.

Savings very unwritten by liberty mutual insurance company affiliates excludes massachusetts guys.

[Ryan Warmley]

Let'S get into our start to player debates here we'll start as always with the running backs travis etn versus kenneth walker two guys who have come up on the show a bunch this year because they've kind of been consistently ranked in this like iffy range if we want to be starting them or not so i figured let's put them head to head against each other here let me switch back over to running back see where they're currently ranked because i put this together yesterday walker's at rb seventeen travis etienne is rb eighteen so they are still back to back here in the rankings fitz i'll start with you on this one would you rather be starting travis etn or kenneth walker.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

I would rather start travis etn and i know people are going to be spooked that etn completely bricked in a great matchup against the titans last week twelve carries twenty eight yards one catch thirteen yards it's not like bayshal tutin really did that much better against the titans either eight carries for seventeen yards although he did get into the end zone so for whatever reason the jags just couldn't get it done on the ground against the titans but before that bad game etn had scored at least fourteen half point ppr points in four straight games whereas kenneth walker's hit double digit half point ppr points just twice since the end of september two times in the last eight games so i think etn has the higher ceiling and maybe the higher floor too jake what.

[Jake Seeley]

Do you think we differ on this one which feels good because we're back to the norm we were green way too much on the last one and it's not a huge gap i have walker two spots in front of him and i think a lot of people's concern was that oh charbonnet got all these touches and he still gets the goal line touches but six of his fourteen were in the fourth quarter and walker didn't touch the ball in the fourth quarter that was that game was like out of hand it was not a situation where walker was even relevant for the fourth quarter so i'm not that concerned about charbonnet's touches last week it's still walker in the lead they're still leaning to him more i am still concerned that charbonnet is going to take the goal line opportunities but that's the concern that i have for etn too is that tutin's now taking the goal line opportunities so in a toss up situation like this slightly trust kenneth walker more than etn only because i think there's a bigger window to etn kind of like slipping up in game and then leaning onto it more than there is to charbonnet for walker just because they've kind of made that switch but it's close enough they like just because we disagree i don't think it's a huge gap like like i don't think fitz is crazy on this one.

[Ryan Warmley]

Do you jake disagree with the range that they're in rb seventeen rb eighteen or do you do you have them in that same spot just maybe a.

[Jake Seeley]

Couple spots off i actually generally have seventeen and nineteen to give you an.

[Ryan Warmley]

Idea okay so very very close there too yeah i mean i was looking when i was putting together the names of who to you know kind of put head to head here we've kind of run into the into this a few times where you get to that like mid to late teens especially at running back and it really does feel like it's pretty obvious the guys ahead of these names should be ahead of them and it's pretty obvious for the most part that the guys behind them should be behind them they're kind of in that like they should be here you can maybe put them head to head against each other but like it would be i think kind of hard to make an argument for a lot of names behind them to being ahead of them and vice versa for the names ahead of them does that feel similar to you fitz where it's almost maybe a little bit of a tear.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Break here yeah i do feel that way wormware like there's a tear break where you're feeling pretty good about the top fifteen or sixteen guys.

Mostly good about the next guys all the way up to about twenty three or twenty four and then it gets really iffy.

[Ryan Warmley]

After that yeah especially with this you know four teams on by i i can't stand that there's four teams on by in week fourteen like ivan's bad i really hate it how late it is in the season i would love to you know when i was a commissioner of a league last year i wasn't even thinking about the buys in week fourteen and i put a double championship week and in order to do that you have to start your playoffs to be fourteen like i just wish that was an option on the table for people because i just don't like i don't like this current setup with four teams on by this week i'm.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Sure the nfl has its reasons for having some weeks be sixteen buys and some weeks be two team buys and having buys in week fourteen but i i would love to know what those.

[Ryan Warmley]

Reasons are well i i just wish they would finish the buys in week thirteen why do they do no buys in week thirteen i know i got to get that thanksgiving but but like you just have the teams play like i think you could just have fewer teams like playing that week or saying.

[Jake Seeley]

Big deal i don't know if anybody knows this but it's really simple thirty two divided by four is eight and then you could just do weeks five through twelve done very simple yes i.

[Ryan Warmley]

Would be super you can even do.

[Jake Seeley]

One division at a time just boom boom boom boom boom down the list.

[Ryan Warmley]

That i have actually never considered that that's a great idea i would love the idea of just divisions getting the bye weeks that's i can't believe i've never thought of that that's an awesome idea i don't know why they don't do that they'll never listen to me on scheduling so i feel like i complain we're gonna be starting at least.

[Jake Seeley]

One show a year or two away from eighteen weeks and two buys per team anyway so yeah yeah it's a.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Good point.

[Ryan Warmley]

All right let's go to another running back here moving a little further down in the rankings how about devin neal versus woody marks a couple of rookies here a couple of day three rookie draft picks here these guys are both ranked in the twenties they are back to back woody marks is rb twenty two devin neal is rb twenty three jake i'll start with you on this one and by the way normally i know your guys's rankings ahead of time i did have jake's fitz because he was busy adopting the dog i wasn't able to get them by the time i was putting the show sheet together so it's fun because i'm actually discovering if you guys are going to agree or not as we go along on the show but these two are back to back in ecr like i said so jake who do you.

[Jake Seeley]

Prefer marks or neil it's marks and it's not the fact so much that like oh my god marks has been amazing but he is getting fifteen seventeen touches it's just also turning into sixty seventy yards not really with a touchdown not the best matchup casey's worrisome it's not as worrisome as it was last year but that's where i'm going with this who's was worried worrisome as the chiefs were last year the buccaneers i do not want running backs facing the buccaneers the texans are in that group but devin neal versus woody marks you flip these matchups and i probably flip my ranks i have a pretty decent gap here i have marks at twenty four and neil at thirty and that's without camara i just i don't want running backs against the buccaneers they've been stomping a lot of people especially in the second half of the season and more talented running backs than devin neal so that really is what it comes down to i don't expect a ton of from what he marks he's only at twenty four but i like i said i really don't want to start devon neal against the buccaneers fitz is.

[Ryan Warmley]

Your decision in who you prefer to start here also largely driven by the.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Matchup yes it is and that's why i've got devin neal ranked higher and it's great that jake and i are dropping the gloves after so much agreement when seth was filling in for you as host two weeks ago like that was you know jake and i seth brings it out for that exactly so yeah it is about the matchup for me and it's mostly about the pass catching potential like it's weird that woody marks has been kind of a non factor as a pass catcher like coming out of college i figured he was going to find his niche in the nfl as a third down back but over his last five games woody marks as five catches but he's averaged to jake's point fifteen point four carries a game over that stretch even though he's only averaging three point six yards per carry this season so devin neal hasn't done all that much as a runner in his two games as a starter seven carries for eighteen yards in week twelve fourteen carries for forty seven yards last week against a greatly improved dolphins run defense but devin neal has eight catches for sixty five yards over his last two weeks and both guys have tough run game matchups this week and i agree with jake that the chiefs run defense has not been as tough as it's been the last few years and the buccaneers run defense always very tough and very tough this year under todd bowles but the buccaneers have really been giving it up to running backs in the passing game they've allowed six hundred and eighty one receiving yards to running backs that's one hundred twenty more receiving yards than any other team has given up to running backs that's why i prefer devin neal here i think his receiving numbers give him a pretty sturdy floor how much of that chunk.

[Jake Seeley]

Was bijan and gibbs though to be.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Fair that's true that's true they but like i do think it's not still.

[Jake Seeley]

A fair point it's still a very.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Fair point which is the weird thing i mean i think the buccaneers are giving up like they're in the bottom half as far as running back fantasy points allowed despite how good their run defense actually is it's all because of the receiving production they've given up there.

[Jake Seeley]

You go see see we kind of somewhat came around together at the end of that worm makes you feel better.

[Ryan Warmley]

I do i do think it's a good point like obviously we haven't seen as much from devin neal this season who was a player i liked coming out of college woody marks i do think it's interesting fits to your point about like not being used in the passing game he also only has one touchdown rushing touchdown since week four so like i mean if you told me that from weeks ten to thirteen a guy like woody marks was getting fourteen eighteen sixteen and nineteen carries in those games i will be like oh so he ended up being like a league winner this year like on the texans getting that kind of workload i would have been really excited for where he was going in drafts but it's kind of been empty calories because the passing gamework hasn't been there particularly as of late and the goal line work has not been there so it's just been a lot of carries out of middling efficiency there's only so far that can take you i mean for the last five games he's been under eight fantasy points and half ppr scoring that's kind of incongruous with the level of workload we're getting from him on the ground so and it's not like the chiefs are an easy matchup like you know talk about the matchup side of things so i'm i'm kind of with you in being like hesitant on marks but i guess i'm kind of down on both these guys i don't love that they're both ranked inside the top twenty four but that kind of is what it is the four teams on by and all the injuries you have at this time of year is is that would you would you say that's fair fits that like regardless of putting them head to head like being inside the top twenty four is maybe a little higher do you have them both ranked as rb two s no i've got.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Neil at twenty three and marks at.

[Ryan Warmley]

Twenty six okay okay so roughly roughly in the same range here both both.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Of these guys are kind of out of the circle i've got the the two bears at twenty one and twenty two and once you get past them i think that the safety is kind.

[Ryan Warmley]

Of gone i was just going to say that it feels like a tear break to me because in ecr swift and manangai are twenty and twenty one and then marks are twenty two and twenty three the gap in my you know how i've my confidence level in starting these guys between menangai and marks just feels very different even though you know the bears are going up you know in green bay here all right let's get to the wide receivers jake let's get to we you know alluded that this was going to come up emeka buka versus justin jefferson which is a really interesting one obviously the vikings have just you know had this horrible carousel at quarterback this year you know regardless of who has been there it just has not really worked outside of carson wentz for a few games so justin jefferson continues to slide down the weekly rankings each week going in and people like nobody's like dropped him off a cliff but it's been like little by little he's gone down a couple of spots each week as the quarterback situation has gotten worse or at least not gotten better so now we sit here with emeka ibuka at wide receiver thirteen and justin jefferson at wide receiver fourteen they are back to back here just outside the top twelve of the position from what we talked about earlier i think i know what direction you're going here jake but who do you like better igbuka or jefferson well to.

[Jake Seeley]

Be fair i have both of them way under consensus because for my argument right here jefferson and iguka have been the exact same thing like since the change at quarterback since we lost carson wentz which by the way can we just get one arm carson wentz back for this team because then we'd be excited about justin jefferson play with one arm dude who cares it's your non throwing arm but the point is like since it's been anybody but wentz justin jefferson around the exact same time that igbuka hit the rookie wall and all and i put that up close because like that's not what i'm thinking is happening at buka i've been watching all the games it really comes down to it and you can see it in the numbers too it's a twenty percentage point which means it's a lot more than twenty percentage he went from seven percent of his targets being off target from baker mayfield to twenty seven percent of his targets being off target since that flip in week six and it's not just that baker mayfield's not throwing his way it's just he's getting defensive attention some of the balls aren't catchable he's still getting a lot of targets but so is justin jefferson and that's why i put him in the same bucket that's why i have him as low end wide receiver twos is because yeah all the targets are great but all the targets in the world i made my joke about trey tucker and everybody wants trey tucker to be a thing all the targets don't matter for jack diddley if you're not catching them and i do think ibuka can rebound down the stretch especially if chris godwin is starting to look one hundred percent if mike evans comes back then you just pull off all this defensive attention that igbuka has rightfully been getting but until that click happens i'm just going to have him as a low end wide receiver too i'm not burying the guy i'm still starting him as a wide receiver too i'm still starting jefferson as a wide receiver too but i think now with godwin being one hundred percent i would go godwin then a booka which means i slightly very closely slightly take jefferson over a book it's by two spots what do you make.

[Ryan Warmley]

Jake of jefferson like the target share going down just in the last couple of weeks i mean he was well.

[Jake Seeley]

One of those was a bronze game ross targeted the other team as much as he targeted justin jefferson let's be.

[Ryan Warmley]

Fair yeah that is fair it's just funny because like you talk about you know he's still getting the targets and you look at the last four weeks it went from twelve to nine to six to six so last two weeks being six and six now obviously that seattle game was like really weird he didn't get targeted like the whole you know for a very long time at the beginning you know throughout the first half of the game that had to have been the worst game of his career right since he since basically like week three of his rookie season i didn't actually go back and look but i can't imagine there's been a worse one fitz when you look at these two head to head like when you think about ibuka versus jefferson are you thinking more about you like and it sounds like you like a book a better are you thinking more that you like a booker or more that you.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Dislike jefferson my thinking about this is is sort of quarterback relax i was.

[Jake Seeley]

Gonna say he dislikes i was gonna jump in and say he dislikes jj mccarthy which is rightfully so yeah that's.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

It and i know abuka has been in a slump but it's certainly not for lack of targets he's had at least eight targets and six straight games and there's only been one time all season where he's seen fewer than seven targets in a game i think the slump is more about baker mayfield than a buka like mayfield has averaged under six yards per pass attempt over his last six games but that said i am betting on baker mayfield over jj mccarthy every day and twice on sundays so and by the way about jake's point with carson wentz like if the one armed man and the fugitive could commit murder with just one arm do you think all we're asking from carson wentz is just complete a few forward passes so it seems like not a.

[Jake Seeley]

Lot to ask and to go back to this too like again i have almost back to back if you want to go with igbuka i'm fine with it part of it and maybe that's just me trying to predict games which is always just risky but i just think the buccaneers can get away with this game even leaning on bucky irving twenty times like they don't they don't need to throw a ton in this one especially with baker mayfield not being one hundred percent so that's part of what i'm including in my ranks with.

[Ryan Warmley]

This as well i was going to say i don't think either of you mentioned like the specific matchup jefferson gets the commanders which you know has had a few games this year where they have been just absolutely torched most you.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Know by better quarterbacks than jj mccarthy.

[Jake Seeley]

That'S fair i mean that's a very it's a very long list to be.

[Ryan Warmley]

Fair fis yes yes true it's it's the stoppable object against the movable stoppable force against the removable object by the way i have seen the fugitive i know i know you were gonna ask me about it so i have seen it i don't care you get that reference there you go i do yeah it's tommy lee jones there you go yeah all right let's go to christian watson versus lad mcconkey watson has been you know really good since coming back to the lineup here fitz we have been talking about it for a couple of weeks he continues to just like reinsert himself really really well into this offense coming off of the devastating knee injury last december he is now one spot in the rankings behind lad mcconkey interestingly these are the two guys behind it goes igbuka at thirteen jefferson at fourteen lad mcconkey at fifteen christian watson at sixteen so we're kind of playing in this same sandbox here in the in the area of the rankings so fitz christian watson for you or lad.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Mcconkey this week i think ecr is too high on both guys watson because he's not a prolific target earner and we we could i think it's better than fifty fifty the packers get jaden reed back this week which further jeopardizes the the watson targets like he does get high value targets so i do have him ahead of lad mcconkey who i've kind of steadily been sliding down in the rankings like i'm just i'm terrified by the chargers quarterback situation we've got either the one handed man justin herberts or trey lance in a pretty terrifying matchup against the eagles maybe not terrifying but like the eagles i think have allowed what the fourth fewest fantasy points per game to wide receivers so for all the problems that team is having i don't think past defense is really one of them i would rather play watson than mcconkey for what it's.

[Ryan Warmley]

Worth on herbert and it's still thursday so with those teams playing on monday we don't really know yet but doctor deepak chona from sport md analysis who we do a lot of fun stuff with here at fantasy pros he tweeted yesterday last night that you know it's crazy but herbert really could play you know this week even with the hand surgery like he's not at all ruling him out here you know he was saying that he would expect more shotgun in that game and obviously a bigger run game emphasis in general just to take some of the workload off herbert but that he's you know leaving it open that he could play by the way on christian watson just a note from debro here that he tweeted yesterday since week eleven he's wide receiver twelve in fantasy points per game eighty two point four percent route percentage twenty eight point two target percentage almost sixty yards per game two and a half yards per route run and a thirty six percent first read share those are from some notes from debro there so jake when you hear those and thinking about some of the injury stuff with the chargers offense are you interested in watson or would you rather be starting lad.

[Jake Seeley]

Oh one hundred percent like i was campaigning for watson and the waivers as soon as he was coming back and every time since actually the show you missed i even talked about watson during that one with seth and you know i would agree with fitz if it wasn't this year seventeen targets over the last two games for watson and i know reed could come back but this is the one area like i'm going to actually push it's funny at the end i'm actually going to agree with fitz to make this clear but i'm going to push back in disagreement a little bit differently is i do think reed coming back can help but i think reed helps what they're lacking right now they're lacking tucker kraft tucker kraft was a big part of what was making the passing game click and and i think reed coming back is going to fill the tucker craft void more so than threaten christian watson i do think of course like seventeen targets in two games maybe it's fourteen i think christian watson is still going to get his so i have christian watson in front of lad i also have trey lance in the ranks because i'm banking on that versus because the easy answer is if it's justin herbert what do we do most people know i would move up lad but not that much that's where we are complete agreement is one watson over ladd and then two is i'm not going to move them up that much even with herbert just because you look at the charges of chargers of late even before the injury to herbert it's been a little bit more run heavy it was actually the run heaviest they've been the entire year last week but again hurt in game by justin herbert but if they get hampton back i know there's a lot of moving pieces with the chargers but if they get hampton back why turn to herbert or lance more than you need to and it comes down to ladd would be the only wide receiver i would trust but it's hard to trust him as a wide receiver one which i have christian watson pushing the wide receiver one range i have him top fifteen i have lad more down i'm behind consensus on lad i have him down at eighteen nineteen.

Herbert'S awesome.

[Ryan Warmley]

But like even if he was fully healthy and didn't have this hand issue i'd be a little nervous about him going that's what i'm saying with that offensive line against the eagles like so you throw in the injury concern it just makes it that much more heightened and the potential that doesn't play arguably.

[Jake Seeley]

Pro bowl tight or tackles that are out i mean it's going to take.

[Ryan Warmley]

A hit against this team the one.

[Jake Seeley]

Thing i will say is that the eagles aren't man heavy but the man covers that they do run they've actually been exploited quite a bit by man capable wide receiver like jameson williams george pickens is better against man than he is against zone more so than cd lamb and he had a better game than lamb in that one so ladd would be the one that would benefit the most if herbert's out there i'm just pointing that out it's a bad matchup but ladd would be the one that could benefit the most from the chargers wide receivers but all our concerns are still valid.

Yeah let's go to.

[Ryan Warmley]

Some of these rapid fire start sit decisions we'll move a little quicker through this section running back one here cream hunt versus chris rodriguez actually when i was putting this together forgot that we were already talking about rodriguez but i do think it's an interesting one they are very close in ecr who do you guys prefer between heinz going up against this really tough houston defense or chris rodriguez who we already talked about jake i'll start with you earlier i.

[Jake Seeley]

Said i don't want to start running backs against the texans but i mean if you're going to tell me two bad matchups and one offense i trust more than the other to potentially get a touchdown it's cream hunt but it's it's narrow and i want to be surprised if pacheco looked somewhat okay in his first game back if he steals more this week so i'm not saying it's a guarantee but these are guys that are both outside my rb two.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Range fitz yeah i agree with jake here hunt we talked about how td dependent chris rodriguez is doesn't offer anything as a pass catcher hunt also somewhat td dependent he's had eight touchdowns this season five in his last five games but he does at least provide some other value he's had at least forty rushing yards in five straight games hunt has fourteen catches for one hundred fourteen yards and a touchdown tough matchups for both like jake said but like pacheco might not be that much of a threat to hans like hunt i know it was pacheco's first game back hunt out snapped him forty two to twenty out touched him fifteen to five i doubt that completely flips like maybe it gets a little closer to fifty fifty but i kind of think kareem hunt is their lead guy now where would.

[Ryan Warmley]

Hunt rank for you guys this week compared to marks and neil because he's in that same range in ecr fits.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

I have got haunts let's see i've got him one spot ahead of marks at rb twenty five and two spots behind devin neal jake similar i go.

[Jake Seeley]

I go marks hunt rodriguez neil i clearly hate devin deal oh yeah do.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

I have rodriguez lowest of these guys.

[Ryan Warmley]

Yeah i do he's lowest in ecr but it's it's very close they're all within about five spots of each other in that kind of mid mid twenties range all right let's go to the wide receiver one i have here how about roma dunesay or dk metcalf obviously a dunes has quite fallen off quite a bit here jake since he was where he was in the first month of the season going up against a dk metcalf in a steelers offense that has been really bad as of late themselves so odunze or metcalf can i.

[Jake Seeley]

Say neither i mean i don't know they're both pushing the bottom of the wide receiver threes for me at this point like i have dk at twenty nine and odunze at thirty one onunde kind of falls into the ibuka conversation but even worse because the targets aren't there because the bears aren't passing that much when they do they have a litany of options to go to everyone from loveland and the tight ends all the way up to now burden is more involved which we hope for but it's trying to predict a dj moore game versus a dunes a game versus a burning game versus the tight ends and then backfield oh by the way they're facing the packers in green bay in cold weather why not just run the ball a billion times like you have been so i will go dk barely but i really don't want to start i don't want to start dk metcalf against the ravens but if he gave me the toss up like a dunesday at this point point i give him the slightest of edges yeah fitz.

[Ryan Warmley]

I'M curious what you say it's funny i was going back to look i was like i don't remember what a dunes they did i don't even remember the bears playing the packers how did that first go and i realized they haven't played yet i don't know why.

[Jake Seeley]

I had bogman on my podcast he did the same thing last night he was like what did they do the first time around because we were talking about burden and i was like they.

[Ryan Warmley]

Haven'T played yet yeah i was like there's a reason i can't remember yeah but i feel like the nfl has done this a lot where they have a lot of like this year a lot of these like the ravens played the bengals like two out of three weeks or like they're in the middle of that now hadn't played the steelers yet to week fourteen similar here with bears and packers they play two of the next three weeks hadn't played yet getting to this late in the season i don't know if that was intentional about the nfl or just kind of how it worked out but we have not seen this matchup yet here fitz what do you expect out of a dunesday in you know comparison to dk.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Metcalf like jake i'm i'm sort of not real excited about either of these guys but i i would play a dunesay like i just had this nagging feeling before the season that aaron rodgers and dk metcalf would oil and water pairing and they somehow made it work for a little while like dk had four touchdowns in his first five games had some long catch and runs but it's just it's not working anymore metcalf has finished with fewer than fifty receiving yards in five straight games fewer than sixty receiving yards in seven straight games since the start of november dk metcalf is averaging four point five yards per target and things haven't really been that great for odunze either he had one hundred and fourteen yards against the ravens worm as i'm sure you remember in week eight since then only thirteen catches for one hundred eighty eight yards and a touchdown that's over five games it's wide receiver sixty in ppr fantasy points per game over that stretch and has a thirty eight point two percent catch rate in his last five games but i don't think odunze is fundamentally mismatched with his quarterback the way metcalf is so i wouldn't be surprised if oduns a yeah odunze he could get hot again but i would be utterly shocked if metcalf got hot again with aaron.

[Ryan Warmley]

Rodgers let's stick with the bears for our first flex head to head here kyle mangai versus a flowers now mangai didn't practice on wednesday with an ankle issue so keep an eye on that.

You know yeah i was going to say it is wednesday but it did happen so just pay attention there obviously he's coming off of an excellent game against philly zay flowers coming off a real dud everybody knows how i feel about flowers they're ranked very close in ecr flowers is a few spots higher so zay flowers jake or kyle menung.

[Jake Seeley]

Guy how you feel can we just laugh about that for a second like if there's one thing we definitely got right about the ravens is don't draft zay flowers because zay flowers is a.

[Ryan Warmley]

Flower screaming it from the mountaintop like.

[Jake Seeley]

All but here's the thing like you said a dod but if you look at the game since week four twenty six thirty two forty seven twenty eight thirty three thirty twenty one thirty that's just that was our point about zay flowers is he's a wide receiver three and he's just going to hover in that range because oh by the way what does he not do worm you know what this is doesn't catch touchdowns he has one and that was back in week one when he was wide receiver one of all things of course but all that being said that's why i'll lean to manang guy because i do again i lean to this being run heavy it's going to be super cold weather which usually presents a better opportunity for the run game because it mutes the passing game not like if there's snow out there but enough to say like they lean on the run game for this one hopefully against the packers that's what they try to do anyway to try and win this game so i give menangai the slight edge zay flowers would be as crazy as to say as the backup running back you would seem it would be more of that boomer bust play but zay flowers is still boomer bust to me like if you want to potentially hopefully he gets a touchdown and finishes a top fifteen wide receiver cool it rarely happens but i would give manang guy the slide they're very close to my rankings they're within ten spots of each other in the flex rankings but i'm.

[Ryan Warmley]

Gonna go manangai i will give zay some credit like should have had a touchdown on thursday against and a fifty yard play opi call yeah like there there could have been more here if he just caught that touchdown then they didn't call the opi and everything else is the same though like he would have finished in the same range of points that he has the last five weeks like ten eight ten nine nine like he that's where he would have been with that catch and and if nothing else changed that was the it's not that would have given him a.

[Jake Seeley]

One of the worst offensive pass inter.

[Ryan Warmley]

This year i can't talk about that that was that was just like utterly painful but yes like i said in after week one i was like i wouldn't be surprised if he goes like months before he catches another touchdown and lo and behold he has not got a touchdown since week one that was like by a mile his best game of the season we all again we all know how i feel about that.

[Jake Seeley]

So for fits before like i have i have mananga at forty six flowers at fifty so like if you are smiling because you're going to disagree i'm not going to be like oh my.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

God you're crazy no i was i was smiling because you live in virginia and you're saying it's going to be super cold in green bay it's going to be in the low twenties jake we just call that i thought it.

[Jake Seeley]

Was supposed to no no i thought game time it was supposed to be single digits because it's the afternoon game.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Is that not oh late it is a late afternoon maybe that's it maybe i was looking at an earlier yeah.

[Jake Seeley]

It'S supposed to be like a high of seventeen so that that's well that's.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

That'S not that's not the ice that's.

[Ryan Warmley]

Like a light windbreaker for people who.

[Jake Seeley]

A light windbreaker get the hell out of here that's all right i'm going to this is weather bug promotion of weather bug there no actually now fitz is supposed to be a high twelve at game time so there you go that's even worse that's a little that's.

[Ryan Warmley]

A little chilly it is funny just quickly fits how you get used to it like i went this is like in college i went skiing up in quebec on a ski trip over new year's and it was like on average like negative eight degrees during our trip and then like two weeks later i went skiing down in like virginia or pennsylvania or somewhere further south and it was like twelve degrees and all the people i was with were so bundled up and i felt like i was borderline sweating because i got so used to just how frigid it was when it was in the negatives that like twenty degrees warmer even though it would normally be very cold to me did feel warmer so like there is something to like you do get pretty used to it if you're there long enough and in those conditions i mean you.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Learn those go ahead i was gonna.

[Jake Seeley]

Say i usually ski with a long sleeve and open jacket so like it doesn't bother me much but but single digits is still single digits if you've ever played football that thing turns into a freaking rock i'm just saying like.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

You learn the pro tips when you go to packers games in december like you're supposed to put newspapers under your feet and that helps keep your feet warmer even if you're wearing like thick boots really yeah that actually that actually works i noticed a difference when i.

[Jake Seeley]

I was at the you remember real quick we'll move on remember the ice bowl for the giants where they were throwing snowballs and knocked out the coach for the vikings remember that i was i was at the game before that where there was ice on the ground we were legitimately buying hot cocoa just to pour it on the ground to try and melt the ice because our feet were so cold but anyway continue.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Yeah so you're gonna hate this worm i'm taking zay flowers here i know he hasn't scored funeral in a long time but you know he he's actually weirdly given us this safe floor where he he's averaging five catches and sixty four receiving yards a game and he's only last week with the six yard game that was only the third time this season he's had fewer than fifty eight receiving yards and manangai it's just we do these rankings in half point ppr and an average of five catches a game that's two and a half ppr points a game manangai offers really next to nothing as a pass catcher but obviously more touchdown equity he's gotten into the end zone four straight games i'm not dissing minangai the bears are second in the league in rushing yardage since they're by they've averaged one hundred and seventy nine point six rushing yards a game so i just i think flowers is a little bit safer in half point ppr in standard scoring i'd start menangai and i think if you need to land a haymaker if you're a big underdog i'd probably start managing.

[Ryan Warmley]

This is we're going to talk more about this tomorrow fit so i'll save that for now but i i will just say like i am also a little bit nervous about just like like lamar has been bad as of late and the steelers are the team he struggles against most now it's a worse dealers defense than he usually faces but like this is the team historically that he is his worst against well he's.

[Jake Seeley]

Also not one hundred percent right now.

[Ryan Warmley]

It'S clear yeah i mean i've been getting a lot of arguments on twitter with folks who are trying to troll me about lamar and i yeah the injuries i mean he's on the injury report again he's limited he actually did practice on wednesday this week for the first time in like a month but he was still limited with all this lower body stuff let's go to zach charbonnet or xavier worthy fitz i'll start with you on this one charbonnet or.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Worthy charbonnet it's just a really tough matchup for worthy against the texans i mean they texans are kind of a slot funnel as far as their passing game and i mean that doesn't leave too much for the outside receivers and when in doubt this is the bob harris rule go with the running back over the wide receiver in flex decisions and i don't see any reason to go against that rule here what do.

[Jake Seeley]

You think jake same thing really what fitz said too is they've given up the texans three three wide receivers have hit one hundred yards against them and it was nakua jackson smith and jig which by the way not in the ilk of those ones and then khalil shakir oh slot by the way which actually nakua and jackson smith and jig would do a lot of of so complete agreement on this one.

[Ryan Warmley]

Let'S go to another flex one here jake jordan addison or donovan knight.

[Jake Seeley]

I don't want to touch jj mccarthy like i i'm willing to roll the dice with justin jefferson i'm not willing to do it with anybody else and maybe tj hawkinson if i was desperate because all of a sudden he's looking hawkinson's way late in the season but now i'm bam knight assuming there's no trey benson if trey benson does come back but it doesn't seem like it's happening which also means he's not going to play this season because he's only out from you can't come back period i'm just going to go with the running back as it's the bob harris thing again i know he's getting touches i don't know if jordan jordan addison gets one reception.

[Ryan Warmley]

Honestly right yes addison interestingly he is ranked i wanted to ask about him just because of the vikings offense in the state of everything he is ranked higher he is ranked actually right behind zach charbonnet i could have put the two of them together based on ecr and it would have been a reasonable conversation that does feel way too high which is why i was kind of aiming in a different range here at least based on ecr fitz how do you see it addison or knight same.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Way jake sees it i mean bam has had eleven catches in his last three games he's actually giving us some receiving value and he's had double digit carries in three of his last four games i mean jordan addison is a better football player than bam knight full stop not close but i don't want to start jj mccarthy's number two receiver.

[Jake Seeley]

And it might be a number three receiving option also to give you a bonus where i'm going to jump in because i'm curious because i threw this out on my podcast last night i'm curious what fitz thinks i made a case for playing vale over jordan nassen.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

At this point.

Yeah hold on i want to see i might actually have vale ranked higher no i've addison thirty nine and vale forty two but they're that close i think there is a case no question and who would have thought we'd be making that decision and you know back this summer one of those things you couldn't have imagined possibly.

[Ryan Warmley]

Contemplating yeah one more flex one here luther burden or bay shaw tutin a couple rookies here again fitz who do.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

You prefer oh i'm a luther truther man his recent uptick in usage really encouraging had his highest snapshares of the season in his last two games only about fifty percent but still burton has had at least five targets in three straight games at least four catches or excuse me at least three catches in four straight games he's even had two rushing attempts the last couple of weeks this will be the last game luther burden plays at age twenty one he turns twenty two on december twelfth maybe he can give us a breakout game before he turns into an old man and tutin like he had double digit carries once this season he said more than thirty rushing yards twice he said three catches in his last six games he's a handcuff they're only trace amounts of standalone value here with bae shaltin.

[Ryan Warmley]

Jake what do you think yeah but.

[Jake Seeley]

He is their goal line option all that being said i am i'm higher on consensus than both and i have them legitimately back to back in the flex so i am good with going both but in so much in the fact that the luther truther i am one of the same i had him in my tier one of rookie wide receivers and i actually have him higher than dj moore this week to give you an idea of how much of a luther truther i am with you.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Fitz wow nice i was hoping you.

[Ryan Warmley]

Were going to say that you liked tootin so we could have truth or burden versus bay shaw truth in wow.

[Jake Seeley]

Here all right everybody that's us for.

[Ryan Warmley]

This week we'll see yeah yeah sadly can't go out on that high note we got a couple more names here quarterback lamar jackson who i don't think we've asked about all year but people are asking about like at what point is this thing going to turn around for a guy that you drafted to be a set it and forget it you know elite quarterback option obviously has not been that for a month dealing with injury stuff we've talked about a lot and you know now going up against the steelers defense that's given him trouble in the past he's qb eight baker mayfield is qb nine so who do you like better of those two jake lamar jackson or baker mayfield i.

[Jake Seeley]

Still have like i'm i was lower than most last week on lamar i am again but i still have him in front of baker because and the ch here's how i'm looking at the chance that he's even close to one hundred percent and starts running more again like the biggest thing we're losing from lamar is the running also it's affecting his throws you see it he's sailing passes because the foot isn't one hundred percent but baker mayfield's not one hundred percent and baker mayfield if you go back and watch that buccaneers game the few times he did run you saw him especially on that one play where he dove purposely to the like he kind of like went down and he was like you could see he was trying to protect the arm that's the concern because you avoid like he baker finally started running a little bit more of late then he gets hurt so you have that concern and it goes back to my whole argument about this game in general is that the buccaneers can run in this game to win this game unless it goes sideways which we've seen so far because it's the nfl but i'm just going to take the chance that lamar is anywhere near one hundred percent versus risking baker mayfield in a game where they don't need him to even throw much which he hasn't done the past two games.

[Ryan Warmley]

Lamar jackson last three games qb twenty nine qb twenty five qb twenty seven fits for me it's not even so much about him running it's about his ability to just evade pressure in the pocket he just he can't accelerate and decelerate the way that he you know we're used to watching from him and this offensive line is not very good and it's just really i think messed with his throwing like let alone whatever he's doing on the ground you know obviously single digit scoring three straight weeks just not what you've come to expect from a guy of lamar jackson's stature so for you are you considering starting somebody like baker mayfield over him or are you still sticking with lamar nope lamar.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Has the higher profile slump at baker's been in a slump too he has not averaged seven passing yards per attempt in a game since week six baker mayfield he's averaged five point five yards per attempt which is completely anemic over his last six starts and he's only in one game with multiple touchdown passes over his last six starts so baker mayfield he or lamar jackson would not have had a single digit point total last week if if isaiah likely hadn't screwed up and if he hadn't had a touchdown pass wiped out by penalty so like we know what lamar's ceiling looks like and i think he could get back to it even though yes historically has not done well against the steelers i'm playing lamar over baker no.

[Ryan Warmley]

Question to your to your point that game against the bengals was like two a couple of inches away from being a three hundred yard passing day with.

[Jake Seeley]

A couple of passing touchdowns pi and hold on so far and he has.

[Ryan Warmley]

Two touchdowns in that game yeah tight end around a gadston going up against eagles very tough matchup or harold fannin junior going up against the titans fitz who do you like better oh worm.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

I don't like either guy's spot thanks for giving us such an unappealing choice gadsden as of right now i've got him tight end ten but if justin herbert doesn't play i'm i'm probably going to drop gadsden out of the top fifteen and maybe tight end ten is already too high i've got fannin at tight end eleven i just i reluctantly moved him ahead of colston loveland but man fannin's quarterback is a rookie making his third nfl start chidor sanders he's playing a game with a vegas total of thirty four that's on hard rock bet i think it's thirty three and a half in some other spots and the titans have actually been pretty stingy against tight ends this year ninth fewest points allowed to the position i just i don't like the spot for either guy gadsden but just hold your nose and start him if justin herbert starts.

[Ryan Warmley]

I'M i'm stuck making our tight end pick in the touchdown calls contest i wanted to drag you guys down with a gross tight end question to bring.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Them don't pick either of these guys.

[Ryan Warmley]

I will i will not jake gadsden.

[Jake Seeley]

Or fannin i'm going fanning no matter who the quarterback is and it's not like i'm super excited for fan and i have him a tight as eleven but it just comes down to a non one hundred percent herbert we talked about the passing game concerns earlier with ladd and everything involved with the chargers and yeah sanders is making his third but sanders is showing the things the good things we knew about him from coming from college is that he makes some smart throws a high percentage last week and he looked fannin's way he kind of treated fannin as his number two that entire game has kind of grown the stretch including the opportunities and routes between fannin and njoku so i'm not super excited about him he's a little low end tight he's barely a tight end one but just taking that over what we've seen honestly gadsden has been almost non existent since his breakout stopped and all these issues started to happen very similar target shares very similar targets per game for fannin and gadsden so i'm just going to take the questions out of it and i know i'm trusting a rookie to take the questions out of it but the point being is i don't have to worry about lance i don't have to worry about a non healthy herbert so i get what it's tight end the gas and touchdown is going to throw this out the window if it happens like gas and catching a touchdown would just mean he finishes as a top ten.

[Ryan Warmley]

Tight end yeah say goodbye to start sit dilemmas with fantasy pro start sit assistant within seconds you'll know exactly who to play for optimal results each and every week leveraging insights from numerous experts the start sit assistant aligns your lineup decisions with the top minds of fantasy football giving you a competitive edge maximize your lineup's potential with just a few clicks head to fantasypros dot com myplaybook or download the fantasy pros app and make winning decisions in no time we're about to get to our touchdown calls for the week but first join our free touchdown calls contest in the fantasy pros discord each week pick four players you think will score with a bonus flex worth double weekly winners get a dollar twenty five fantasy pros gift card and the season champ takes home a signed bijan robinson jersey play now by going to fantasyprose dot com chat and heading to the touchdown calls channel all right we're onto our touchdown calls here jake you're on running back this week.

[Jake Seeley]

Yeah i'm going to take what it feels like a little bit of a layup i got to get right after i think i missed two in a row including one being a tight end because of course but going against what is hopefully a shootout and was hopefully one of the best or what is one of the best running backs that find in the end zone against a team that is giving up plenty of running back points touchdowns yards everything going against the bengals i'm taking james cook to get in the end zone which like i said this almost feels like a given especially for the fact that they just gave up two to one being henry and one keaton mitchell just.

[Ryan Warmley]

Last week fitzgerald wide receiver i'll take.

[Pat Fitzmaurice]

Cortland sutton he scored a touchdown against the commanders last week just his second td in his last eight games hasn't had td's in consecutive games since weeks two and three but he's going to do it this week cortland sutton reasserts himself as the broncos alpha receiver and has a big game against the raiders.

[Ryan Warmley]

So james cook and cortland sutton so far i'm on tight end i am going with mark andrews and obviously i've talked a lot about how i'm nervous about what lamar is going to do here you know against the steelers and during his slump but mark andrews signed a very surprising to me three year contract extension yesterday that i like my jaw was on the floor when i saw that and the money they gave him and like this clearly means i i think clearly that they're going to let isaiah likely walk and all that so i think that there goes to be like a little bit of maybe extra motivation to get andrews a touchdown kind of celebrating this you know this extension and showing like hey he's still got this is why we brought him back for three more years lamar has not thrown a touchdown in three straight weeks he's going to look to his guy to get one done and i think his guy is going to be mark andrews so not that i feel great about it but james cook for jake cortland sutton for fitz mark andrews for me who i don't think i picked this year in any of my tight ends so you can dominate your fantasy football league with fantasy pros premium now available free for six months when you deposit and place your first wager on one of our partner sportsbooks this is the easiest way to get full access to our top fantasy tool all season long go to fantasypros dot com premium to get started we'll wrap things up there best of luck everybody getting into those playoff spots here clinching up everything and getting ready for a playoff run here over the next few weeks here starting off in week fourteen so for jake and fitz i'm ryan warmley thanks for tuning in we'll see you next time thanks for listening to the fantasy pros fantasy football podcast if you love the show the best free way to support us is way by the leaving a positive review on apple podcasts at fantasypros dot com review or on spotify follow us on x instagram and tik tok antasypros and subscribe to our youtube channel at youtube dot com fantasypros.

[Jake Seeley]

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[Ryan Warmley]

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