Push for Peace in Ukraine; The Battle to Buy Warner Bros. Discovery

Summary

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Fareed Zakaria GPS (CNN Podcasts)

Episode: Push for Peace in Ukraine; The Battle to Buy Warner Bros. Discovery

Date: December 14, 2025
Host(s): (Guest host) Bianna Golodryga (for Fareed Zakaria)

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Overview

This episode of GPS explores three major stories shaping global politics and culture: the intense diplomatic maneuvering to secure a peace deal in Ukraine, the high-stakes and unprecedented media industry battle over control of Warner Bros. Discovery, and a deep-dive into Iran’s catastrophic water crisis. The episode also features an interview with MTV cofounder Tom Freston on the evolution—and eclipse—of American cultural soft power.

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Main Segments & Key Takeaways

1. Push for Peace in Ukraine: A Diplomatic Frenzy

[03:00–11:13]

Guests:

• Carl Bildt (Former Prime Minister of Sweden, co-chair European Council on Foreign Relations)

Discussion Points:

• Leaked US “Peace Plan” & Its Impact:
  The episode opens with the context of an urgent peace push in Ukraine, prompted by a leaked US-drafted peace plan heavily favoring Russia, and President Zelensky's counter-proposal to the US administration.
• Trump’s Shift and European Concerns:
  Carl Bildt highlights that while initial peace efforts centered on a ceasefire along existing lines, President Trump now supports Russia’s demand for Ukraine to yield additional territory.

  “Since Alaska, President Trump has... endorsed... Russian demand that Ukraine should give up territory which Putin has not been able to conquer... That is unacceptable for the Ukrainians.” — Carl Bildt [04:03]

• Ukrainian Red Lines & European Support:
  Zelensky refuses both the moral and legal precedent of ceding territory. European leaders, while leaving decisions to Ukraine, lean toward supporting Kyiv.
• US Security Guarantees & Europe’s Role:
  Concerns are raised about the effectiveness and credibility of American security guarantees, especially as US policy seems to be shifting away from Europe. Bildt insists that Ukraine’s main guarantee should be its own defense capability, underwritten by European financial/military support.

  “I don't think there are any sort of paper security guarantees that can replace what we need to do... support Ukraine financially... helping to finance their defence.” — Carl Bildt [06:36]

• US National Security Strategy:
  The episode discusses the newly released US security strategy that frames Russia as a stabilizing force while lambasting Europe’s democracy—a narrative welcomed by Moscow but met with alarm in Europe.

  “It has an extremely distorted view of what’s happening in Europe... Not a single word about [Russian aggression], but only criticizing Europeans..." — Carl Bildt [07:59]

• Europe’s Next Steps and Agency:
  Drawing on Foreign Affairs’ “How Europe Lost” feature, the discussion touches on the need for Europe to act with more sovereignty and less dependency on US leadership.

  “I disagree with the assessment, but I agree with the recommendations. Europe [has] to stand on its own leg somewhat more... build a NATO with substantially less of the United States. We... offer quality of life for the majority... better than anywhere in the world.” — Carl Bildt [09:50]

Memorable Quotes:

• “It’s not fair to ask [Zelensky] to give up lands... just because Mr. Putin and Mr. Trump likes it.” — Carl Bildt [05:40]
• “The quality of life in Europe is, I think, unsurpassed in the world today.” — Carl Bildt [11:02]

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2. The Battle to Buy Warner Bros. Discovery

[12:35–18:38]

Guests:

• Joe Flynn (Entertainment Reporter, Wall Street Journal)

Discussion Points:

• Paramount’s Hostile Bid:
  Paramount, led by David Ellison and backed by billionaire Larry Ellison, makes an unprecedented hostile takeover attempt of the significantly larger Warner Bros. Discovery, directly appealing to shareholders after being rebuffed in favor of a Netflix offer.

  “A hostile takeover bid in Hollywood from a company that is significantly smaller than its target. That’s almost unheard of.” — Bianna Golodryga [13:05]

• Financing & Geopolitics:
  Paramount’s financing, tied to Middle Eastern sovereign wealth funds and Jared Kushner’s firm, triggers regulatory and reputational concerns—especially in Europe. Netflix, by contrast, offers straightforward bank financing.
• The Trump Factor:
  President Trump has pledged unusually direct involvement in the regulatory review due to CNN’s place in the sale (as a Warner subsidiary), with suggestions from Larry Ellison to “make sweeping changes” to CNN if Paramount wins.

  “Typically a president doesn’t really put their thumb on the scale of a big merger. ...This is a different situation.” — Joe Flynn [17:54]

• The Bigger Picture:
  Paramount and Netflix’s bids have Hollywood and global media on edge, with the outcome likely to reshape the industry for decades.

Notable Quote:

• “Paramount, instead of complaining about the process… make a bigger bid. We’re going to see if that is in fact what happens next.” — Joe Flynn [16:24]

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3. Iran’s Water Crisis: Running Dry in Tehran

[19:00–24:49]

Guests:

• Holly Douglas (Senior Fellow, Washington Institute; Curator, “The Iranist” Substack)

Discussion Points:

• Root Causes:
  Holly Douglas attributes the crisis—Tehran facing “Day Zero” with just 10% dam capacity—to “46 years of systemic mismanagement and corruption,” compounded by drought, sanctions, and governmental stonewalling.

  “Unfortunately, it's 46 years of systemic mismanagement and corruption and that's really been what's been leading this.” — Holly Douglas [20:04]

• Corruption & The ‘Water Mafia’:
  The IRGC’s engineering arm is labeled a “water mafia,” funneling resources for profit while ignoring sustainable supply.
• Impact on Daily Life & Political Unrest:
  Ordinary Tehran residents deal with nightly water shutoffs, those with means buy water pumps, while protests—sometimes met by force—continue over resource failures.

  “Iranians were chanting, ‘electricity, water, life is our inherent right.’” — Holly Douglas [22:53]

• Lost Expertise and International Isolation:
  The irony that Iran’s water system was originally engineered by an Israeli team highlights both technical decline and current diplomatic impasses. Israel has even offered remote advice, to no effect.
• Discontent and the Future:
  Discontent is near-universal: “92% of Iranians are discontent with the conditions on the ground.” Structural change remains unlikely under the current regime.

Memorable Moments:

• “It's not that Iranians are ignoring this... starting with 2021, protests against the water situation…” — Holly Douglas [21:48]
• “The issue at hand here is the Islamic Republic itself… 92% of Iranians are discontent…” — Holly Douglas [24:32]

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4. MTV, American Soft Power, and the End of a Cultural Era

[25:59–32:38]

Guest:

• Tom Freston (Cofounder, MTV; author, former CEO Viacom)

Discussion Points:

• Origins of MTV and the Power of Music TV:
  Freston recounts his psychedelic San Francisco epiphany in 1969 and the evolution that led to MTV’s 1981 launch, making American pop culture a global touchstone.

  “You have a great song and it’s coupled with really engaging imagery, the power of a song is really multiplied.” — Tom Freston [27:39]

• Why American Culture Spread—and Faded:
  English-language dominance and the lack of other countries’ media infrastructure made MTV and U.S. film/music globally dominant. This began to erode after 2000 as the Internet enabled local cultures to produce and disseminate their own art (e.g., K-pop, Afropop, Latin pop).

  “American music and film had a big cultural time. ... But then, you know, around 2000 it began to melt away with the Internet. ... Our soft power has diminished because other countries have gotten better at it themselves.” — Tom Freston [29:11]

• American Soft Power—Present and Future:
  Freston decries recent US cuts to international aid and the loss of influence:

  “It’s just bulk me so much. ... Take the poorest people in the world and take away life saving medicines for like 20 million people... We're gonna put them in the wood chipper, like it's a criminal syndicate.” — Tom Freston [30:54]

• Advice for the Next Generation:
  Freston's life advice emphasizes global travel and perspective as key to personal and professional growth.

  “When you're really young, you can take a chance, step off the conveyor belt, go out into the world... It's the best classroom you will ever find.” — Tom Freston [32:02]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Ukraine Peace Diplomacy: 03:00 – 11:13
• Warner Bros. Discovery Takeover: 12:35 – 18:38
• Iran’s Water Catastrophe: 19:00 – 24:49
• Tom Freston on MTV, Soft Power, and Advice: 25:59 – 32:38

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Notable Quotes

“Since Alaska, President Trump has... endorsed... Russian demand that Ukraine should give up territory which Putin has not been able to conquer... That is unacceptable for the Ukrainians.”
— Carl Bildt [04:03]

“Iranians were chanting, ‘electricity, water, life is our inherent right.’ …[a] bitter play on…‘nuclear energy is our inherent right.’ So that's to tell you where things are.”
— Holly Douglas [22:53]

“You have a great song and it’s coupled with really engaging imagery, the power of a song is really multiplied. …I thought I was either having a hallucination or I was in one.”
— Tom Freston [27:39]

“Our soft power has not vaporized, but it has diminished because other countries have gotten better at it themselves.”
— Tom Freston [29:11]

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Episode Tone & Style

• Analytical, urgent, and at times somber—especially regarding geopolitics and humanitarian crises.
• Interspersed with moments of personal storytelling and a touch of nostalgia during Tom Freston’s segment.
• Conversations blend policy depth with clear, accessible commentary for global listeners.

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For listeners: This episode delivers a panoramic view of pivotal world events and the shifting tides of global influence, unpacked by some of the most thoughtful voices in diplomacy, journalism, and popular culture.

Transcript

[Host/Interviewer]

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[Carl Bildt]

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[Host/Interviewer]

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Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com Spotify spelled B-A B-B-E-L.com Spotify rules and restrictions may apply. This is GPS, the global public Square. Welcome to all of you in the United States and around the world. I'm Bianna Golodriga filling in for Fareed. Today on the program, the fate of the Ukrainian people hangs in the balance as Donald Trump seeks to make peace in the biggest land war in Europe since 1945. But will the American president sell out Ukraine to get Russia to sign on the dotted line? I'll talk to Carl Bildt, a former president prime minister of Sweden. Also, billionaires, bragging rights and the future of moviegoing in America. We'll tell you what you need to know about what could be one of the biggest deals announced this year.

[Tom Freston]

I want to do what's right.

[Host/Interviewer]

And yes, our parent company is at the center of the entry. Plus Fareed's interview about Iran's historic and unprecedented drought. The situation is so dire the country is thinking of moving its capital from Tehran. How did this happen?

[Holly Douglas]

Then?

[Host/Interviewer]

MTV co founder Tom Freston tells Fareed about a time when not only did the entire world want their mtv, they also clamored for any and all American culture. Is that era over? It's been nearly four years since Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine and there's still no peace deal that both Kyiv and Moscow can accept. But in recent weeks, diplomacy has reached a frenzy with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky holding urgent talks with leaders from dozens of countries, some known as the coalition of the willing, as he pushes for peace on Kiev's terms. This rush follows the emergence last month of a leaked U. S. Drafted peace plan that appeared to greatly favor Russia. And Zelensky has now sent a counter peace proposal to Donald Trump. The talks have also grown more complex after Washington released a document last week outlining its foreign policy, which is strikingly harsh on Europe, while conspicuously light in its criticism of Moscow. To help make sense of it all, I'm joined by Carl Bildt. He's a former prime minister of Sweden and now co chairs the European Council on foreign relations. Mr. Prime Minister, thank you so much for taking the time. It is good to see you. So, as we mentioned, Ukraine and its European allies have sent President Trump their own peace proposal, but serious gaps remain, specifically over territorial concessions and US Security guarantees for Ukraine. It is clear that President Trump at this point is quite impatient and reportedly wants a deal done by Christmas. But all of his pressure seems to be directed at one party, and that is Ukraine. Russia is continuing its maximalist demands here. So what does that tell you about the type of deal that President Trump may force Ukraine to accept?

[Carl Bildt]

Well, up until the rather famous summit in Alaska, the Europeans and Trump was basically on the same line, a ceasefire. End the fighting along the existing lines and then go on from there and try to resolve the different political issues. But since Alaska, President Trump has changed and essentially endorsed their Russian demand that Ukraine should give up territory which Putin has not been able to conquer in spite of throwing his entire armed might against it for three and a half years. And that is something that is unacceptable for the Ukrainians. Ukrainians are ready to accept a ceasefire along the existing lines. The Europeans, although we are saying this is for Ukraine to decide, but basically supporting that line. And I think that is in the counterproposal that President Zelenskyy has now sent to President Trump. And then let's see. Is President Trump ready to put pressure on President Putin instead of just pressure on President Zelenskyy?

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah. And President Zelensky maintains that he has no legal or moral right to cede land to Russia. It has been reported that European leaders are warning President Zelenskyy not to cede territory unless they get from the United States about security provisions for Ukraine. If that doesn't happen, is Europe effectively telling President Zelenskyy or advising President Zelenskyy not to accept President Trump's plan. And if so, is that a wise move?

[Carl Bildt]

Well, it's essentially up to President Zelenskyy to decide, but essentially the European sympathy will be him. I mean, with him. It's not fair to ask him to give up lands that he has been shedding blood and tears and lives for three and a half years just because Mr. Putin and Mr. Trump likes it. Is the Europeans, or are the Europeans ready to support Ukraine? Well, I mean, the Europeans are now doing most of the support of Ukraine anyhow, be that financial or be that military. America has backed away from quite a lot of it already, regrettably, but that's a fact.

[Host/Interviewer]

So are you suggesting that if the United does walk away or doesn't offer specific security guarantees for Ukraine, that Europe is ready to step in in its place? And do you think if so, that that's deterrent enough for Vladimir Putin not to at some point reinvade Ukraine?

[Carl Bildt]

Well, as a matter of fact, I don't think there are any sort of paper security guarantees that can replace what we need to do anyhow in the years ahead, and that is support Ukraine financially, be that call it reconstruction or call it sustaining the Ukrainian state or call it helping to finance their defence. I think the security guarantee that is really relevant for Ukraine in the future is their own defensive capabilities. I don't think it's going to be sort of American or European papers or even commitments of military support. It's going to be their own efforts, but those efforts are going to require our financial support, and that I'm quite convinced the Europeans will be ready to.

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, this all comes as the US released a national security strategy unlike any that we've seen in decades, describing, quote, civilizational erasure in Europe, accusing European governments of abandoning and subverting democracy and effectively declaring an end to NATO's role as an expanding alliance. And we should note, your country and is the latest member to have joined that alliance. Moscow clearly has welcomed this language and we know publicly European leaders have been quite muted in response to this report, but privately they seemed alarmed. What is your reaction?

[Carl Bildt]

Well, I thought the document, particularly in the section on Europe, because the sections of Europe are different from the other sections, it's a fairly bizarre document, I have to say. It has an extremely distorted view of what's happening in Europe. I mean, it expresses concern about the fate of democracy in Western Europe, but not the fate of democracy in Russia or China, not to speak about Saudi Arabia and other places. It sees Russia as a factor for stability, which is fairly bizarre. More bizarre, I have to say when Russia is a country that has been attacking another European country and is conducting hybrid warfare against other European countries. Not a single word about that. But only criticizing Europeans for something that, I mean, frankly, bizarre.

[Host/Interviewer]

You're right, the strategy does call for, quote, strategic stability with Russia at this moment, which has a lot of European leaders now waiting for the national defense strategy, which is expected to be released soon as well. I want to ask you about the focus of the upcoming issue of Foreign affairs magazine. It has a very provocative title, How Europe Lost. And here is the crux of their by giving in to Trump on defense, trade and democratic values, Europe has effectively bolstered those far right forces that want to see a weaker eu. Europe's Trump strategy, in other words, is a self defeating trap. There is only one way out of the cycle. Europe must take steps to restore agency where it still can, rather than wait it out until January 2029, when magical thinking assumes the current transatlantic nightmare will come to an end. The EU needs to stop groveling and build greater sovereignty. Only then will it neuter the political forces that are hollowing it out from within. Do you agree with that assessment?

[Carl Bildt]

I disagree with the assessment, but I agree with the recommendations. I mean, Europe have to stand on its own leg somewhat more. That's what we're doing now. In terms of defence, there's no question we have to build a NATO with substantially less of the United States. We have to look at the sort of the competitiveness of our economy. So we need to do more and to be more self confident. But as the nature of our societies, I don't think we need to be particularly shy. I looked at sort of one index, for example, freedom of the press. The United states is number 53 on that list. Every single European Union country is well ahead of the United States with one exception, that's Hungary. That happens to be sort of an indirect ideological ally on President Trump. And if you take sort of social indicators, the number of people in prison, the level of overall education, the nature of the health system and the life quality. I think we offer quality of life for the majority of our people. That is better than we offer in any other part of the world. So we have to be perhaps somewhat more self confident and self assured when it comes to these issues. The quality of life in Europe is I think, unsurpassed in the world today.

[Host/Interviewer]

Carl Bildt, we'll have to leave it there. Thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it.

[Carl Bildt]

Thank you.

[Host/Interviewer]

Up next on gps, high stakes hostile moves, a contentious fight the battle to buy Warner Bros. Discovery is straight out of the Succession playbook.

[Fareed Zakaria]

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[Holly Douglas]

Oh, right, because you like playing boss.

[Host/Interviewer]

So who will win? We'll discuss when we come back.

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The astonishing showdown in the entertainment industry this week feels like watching a scene from Succession Brother.

[Holly Douglas]

We are putting together a hostile takeover.

[Fareed Zakaria]

Of one of the largest media corporations in the world.

[Host/Interviewer]

In an extraordinary move on Monday, Paramount CEO David Ellison announced a hostile bid to take over media giant Warner Bros. Discovery.

[Tom Freston]

We are offering shareholders $17.6 billion more cash than the deal they currently have signed up with Netflix.

[Host/Interviewer]

Ellison is appealing directly to the company's shareholders in hopes of striking a deal after Warner executives rejected Paramount's bid in favor of another industry heavyweight, Netflix. This face off between Paramount and Netflix has Hollywood reeling as the outcome is likely to shape the entertainment industry for decades to come. The already contentious battle has caught the eye of President Trump, who vows be involved in the sale. I should mention that Warner Bros. Discovery is CNN's parent company. Joining me now is Joe Flynt, an entertainment reporter for the Wall Street Journal. Joe, it is good to see you. And let's start with how unusual this moment is. A hostile takeover bid in Hollywood from a company that is significantly smaller than its target. That's almost unheard of. So from your reporting, walk us through through how we came to this moment.

[Joe Flynn]

Well, to really get into how we came to this moment, we have to go back a little bit to when David Ellison, who ran a company called Skydance, took over control of Paramount. And he did that with an eye of getting even bigger. So Warner was always in the back of his mind. David Ellison is the son of Oracle co founder Larry Ellison, a friend of the White House and a billionaire, as no doubt your audience knows. And so literally, a couple months after they closed the deal for Paramount, they're going after Warner Brothers. They made three unsolicited offers, which then had the effect of kind of forcing Warner to put the whole company up for sale and entertain offers from others as well. And that's how we got here. Netflix and Comcast were other bidders and the Warner board ultimately decided a Netflix offer was a better fit.

[Host/Interviewer]

So with this hostile takeover, David Ellison is essentially arguing that Paramount never got a fair chance with Warner Brothers Discovery, despite what he believes is a better deal for its shareholders. Now, from your reporting, a major factor in Warner Brothers decision in partnering with Netflix instead is Paramount's financing, specifically sovereign wealth funds in the Middle east and Jared Kushner, the President Trump's son in law company, being involved as well. How much of a factor was that in Warner Brothers Discovery ultimately siding with Netflix?

[Joe Flynn]

Well, in our reporting, there certainly was concern from Warner about the financing that Paramount had and whether in fact they would be able to pull this deal off. Certainly the sovereign wealth funds are a concern, especially in Europe and trying to get the deal through European regulations. Warner has a lot of concern that that would be a factor. And ultimately they also were kind of a little worried about how backstopped the Ellison family was in all this. Netflix basically came in with a big check from Wells Fargo, which was more appealing to the Warner board.

[Host/Interviewer]

And has Paramount meaningfully addressed that financing concern in its most recent bid?

[Joe Flynn]

Well, they're certainly making the case to shareholders in lots of letters and detailing their talks with Warner and that they believe they have the financing and that the game has been rigged, if you will, in favor of Netflix. I think Warner still has some questions, but there's also just a fundamental difference of opinion here. On paper, the Paramount Last bid of $30 per share is bigger than the Netflix bid of about $27.75. But when you factor in want to get too down in the details for your audience, but when you factor in other components of this deal, including how the Warner cable assets are being valued, because that's another part of all this. They believe the Netflix deal is better. The people I've talked to said, hey, Paramount, instead of complaining about the process or going on CNBC and saying we're here to finish the job, make a bigger bid, we're going to see if that is in fact what happens next. Will Paramount come back with an even bigger bid and we'll be right back to square one? Perhaps.

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, as I mentioned, Warner Bros. Discovery is the parent company of cnn. And you've reported that David Ellison's father, Larry Ellison, who as you've noted is one of the world's richest men and the founders of Oracle had called President Trump and signaled that he'd, quote, make sweeping changes to CNN if Paramount indeed won. How much could Trump actually influence the regulatory process here? He's already said that he's going to be involved.

[Joe Flynn]

Well, typically a president doesn't really put their thumb on the scale of a big merger. They let their independent agencies, whether it's the ftc, the doj, handle these reviews. Obviously, this is a different situation. And the president has said what he said. He's also expressed concerns with both buyers. So he could make it a very challenging review. I think there's a lot of debate about whether an actual sale of CN to a third party could really be stood up in court. But certainly it can drag out what already promises to be at least a year in terms of regulatory scrutiny.

[Host/Interviewer]

Joe Flynn, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate the time and your reporting.

[Joe Flynn]

Thank you.

[Host/Interviewer]

Up next on gps, Iran's capital Tehran is running out of water. Experts warn taps could soon run dry in the city. So how did the situation become so dire? Fareed will be back with a conversation with an Iran expert. That's up next.

[Fareed Zakaria]

Iran's capital, Tehran, is edging toward what officials call day zero, the moment when the city's water supply completely runs out. The situation is so dire that President Massoud Bezoskian warned last month that authorities may have to evacuate the city, which is home to around 10 million people, following the nationwide Women Life Freedom protests and more recently, a devastating war with Israel. Is the Iranian regime prepared to endure yet another crisis? Joining me now to discuss is Holly Douglas, a senior fellow at the Washington Institute and the curator of the substack, the Iranist. Holly, welcome. You always write so interestingly about Iran. If you were to put it very simply, what explains this extraordinary situation that this a major country, an oil exporting country that appears to be literally running out of water and thinking about evacuating its capital city?

[Holly Douglas]

Unfortunately, it's 46 years of systemic mismanagement and corruption and that's really been what's been leading this. Of course, there's drought and also, to an extent, U.S. sanctions. But really this has been something that the Islamic Republic has been ignoring until they've actually started talking about this publicly, as you've noted with Massoud Pezeshkian's recent alarming comments.

[Fareed Zakaria]

So, you know, one of the things that people don't know enough about with the Islamic regime is that it's called the Islamic regime and it's in Many ways a theocracy. It's also a kind of, of quasi socialist regime. The government owns and controls almost everything. And that in some ways is at the heart of this, right?

[Holly Douglas]

Yes. So the systemic mismanagement, corruption, a lot of this corruption is actually driven by various things. It's driven by the IRGC's engineering arm, which analysts and activists call a water mafia, a mix of individuals that are actually over damming the country for 46 years. And now we're seeing the situation caused, the dire water situation that Tehran's in, where there's only 10% of capacity in five of the capital's dams. And Iranians are taking note. And there is still a sense of they're not doing enough. And it's just more of rhetoric and not actually taking action. And instead of actually doing what needs to be done, they're blaming things like women violating mandatory hijab rules for clouds not raining on the capital.

[Fareed Zakaria]

How bad is the situation? You hear about, I mean, you hear about all kinds of problems in Tehran. So paint a picture for us.

[Holly Douglas]

Well, I talk to people on the ground and for people in Tehran when it comes to water, those that can afford it, they purchase water pumps to suck whatever water they can out of the pipes. Others, depending on the district, they're actually dealing with nightly water shuts that start around 10pm till morning, others unexpected. And that's just water. We have to remember that there's also an electricity blackouts that were happening over the summer. And as you noted earlier, this is a resource rich country that is a top oil and gas exporter. Like how are they unable to, to meet their people's needs? And it's not that Iranians are ignoring this. We've also been seeing for years now, starting with 2021, protests against the water situation in different parts of the country. Farmers, ordinary Iranians, we've seen them actually had security forces systemically blind protesters. And more recently, just a couple months ago, Iranians were chanting, electricity, water, life is our inherent right. Which was a bitter play on, if you remember very well in the early 2000s, the nuclear mantra. Nuclear energy is our inherent right. So that's to tell you where things are.

[Fareed Zakaria]

There is an irony here, is there not? Which is that Iran's water system was engineered in the 1970s under the Shah of Iran with the help of a whole team of Israeli engineers who performed apparently something, you know, quite ingenious. I assume there is no discussion of that and of course no possibility that they would ever reach out to Israel to ask for help.

[Holly Douglas]

Certainly not when they'rewhenone of their main chants is death to Israel and are currently, I would say in wartime with Israel because there is a sense on the ground and I think within the clerical establishment and also, also I believe within Israel, according to reports that a second conflict would be happening. But I think it's interesting that just in 2018, the Israeli government had started a telegram channel in Persian that was talking about ways and means they could offer that help, which was a soft power move, of course, but it does highlight that they too had noticed that this water issue was greater. I also think it's important to note that, that, you know, we talk about this water issue, but the issue at hand here is the Islamic Republic itself. And we've seen that the Iranian people have been discontent for a very long time with them. And that came to head during the 2022 Women Life Freedom uprising. They were unsuccessful in their quest for positive change. But those sentiments have not changed. Even the Pezechian government had put out a polling just the other month that said that 92% of Iranians are discontent with the conditions on the ground. So I think there has to be some real, real changes and I just don't see that happening.

[Fareed Zakaria]

Holly, pleasure to have you on.

[Holly Douglas]

Thank you.

[Fareed Zakaria]

Next on GPS. Back in the 1980s, everyone around the world wanted their MTV and my next guest Tom Fruston brought it to them. He was a co founder of the network. His stories when we come back.

[Carl Bildt]

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[Joe Flynn]

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[Host/Interviewer]

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[Host/Interviewer]

MTV Music Television.

[Fareed Zakaria]

On August 1, 1981, MTV was launched.

[Host/Interviewer]

Ladies and gentlemen, rock and roll.

[Fareed Zakaria]

The advent of the first 24 hour cable network dedicated exclusively to music videos came at a time when American culture and American music in particular was one of the country's most significant Soft power exports from Madonna to Prince to Michael Jackson. MTV broadcasts the most popular American music, sometimes reaching more than 150 countries. Today, the media landscape is shifting. Forced to contend with social media and the Internet and streaming. By the end of the year, MTV will shutter most of its global channels. Tom Freston is a co founder of MTV and the former CEO of Viacom. His new memoir, Adventures From MTV to Timbuktu, tells his extraordinary story. He joins me now. Tom, pleasure to have you on.

[Tom Freston]

Pleasure to be here.

[Fareed Zakaria]

So the music video for you begins in 1969 in San Francisco. When you're high, tell that story.

[Tom Freston]

It was my first day in California. I had been working in a bar in Aspen. I had gotten out of school and I went to California. My first night, it was St. Patrick's Day. And a friend said, hey, I got tickets to go to the Fillmore, which was sort of the garden of psychedelic Eden at the time. And the Jefferson Airplane is coming and why don't you come? So I'm getting like the full on San Francisco treatment. Day, night one, and there was the Joshua Light Show. It was really powerful. You know, when you have a great song and it's coupled with sort of really engaging imagery, the power of a song is really multiplied. And you just. I thought I was either having a hallucination or I was in one. I wasn't quite sure. But that really stayed with me and planted a seed. And it was actually 10 years later to the day I entered the doors of a company, of the company that would have become mtv.

[Fareed Zakaria]

So you have that, you know, experience and that background. But then you have another. The intervening 10 years, you're like a global itinerant traveler, wanderer, traveling all over India, Afghanistan. Why were you doing that?

[Tom Freston]

I had been working in an ad agency and I got assigned to Charman Toilet Paper. It was sort of a line I couldn't cross. And this former girlfriend called me from Paris and said, hey, you can't sell toilet paper. I'm going to go across the Sahara desert. Why don't you quit your job and come with me? A week later I was on a plane. We did that. I stayed with her for about two months and I kept going for a year. And I ended up falling in love with Afghanistan and India. This was a tumultuous 70s. And I stayed for eight years, started a business which became very successful. And you know that around 1979, a series of bad things began to happen. And I came back to the States and that's when I fortuitously got a job at mtv.

[Fareed Zakaria]

How did you guys decide that American music was going to be so popular around the world? Did you know it from the start? Did you sense it once you see?

[Tom Freston]

Well, American music and film had a big cultural time. It was very culturally dominant in the 70s and the 80s in particular. And there was a lot of reasons for that. One was English was ascendant. Two, most other countries didn't have the money or ability to build independent studios or whatnot. And American companies had lock on distribution and so forth. So, and almost like American culture was seen sort of as a symbol of the free world during the world during the Cold war years. So it was ascended and it was strong. But then, you know, around 2000 it began to melt away with the Internet. And so, you know, local cultures got the means of production and you would see the advent of like now you have K pop out of Korea, you've had Afro pop out of Nigeria, you've got this huge wave of Latino music led by Bad Bunny who's going to be the head of the, you know, the center act at the super bowl this year. So it isn't as if American music and you know, popular culture, our soft power has vaporized, but it has diminished because other countries have gotten better at it themselves.

[Fareed Zakaria]

It's sort of the rise of the rest.

[Tom Freston]

Yes, exactly.

[Fareed Zakaria]

You've had sort of three careers as it were, the sort of crazy, wandering, a traveler, businessman, MTV and Viacom. And for the last several years you've been working on NGOs, you work with Bono. What do you think has happened to American soft power now? You know, when you watch the destruction of usaid, this is a part of the world that you were active in because of one.

[Tom Freston]

Yeah, it's really, it's just bulk me so much. I mean to have Elon Musk, the richest man in the history of the world, in the richest country in the history of the world, basically take the poorest people in the world and take away life saving medicines for like 20 million people who are on HIV, you know, HIV, antiretroviral drugs. It really bothers me. It's 1/3 of 1% of the American budget and it's like we're going to put them in the wood chipper, like it's a criminal syndicate. So it's been really sad to have a hole blown in the world global health kind of ecosystem by America pulling out of all these things. So I would say, you know, it brings up a lot of resentment.

[Fareed Zakaria]

You've had such an extraordinary career but it also seems so idiosyncratic, serendipitous. If there was a young person who said, I want to be able to have wandered the world, run a major studio, then been working with Bono on all these aid projects, what's the common theme? What advice would you give somebody?

[Tom Freston]

I would say when you're really young, you can take a chance, step off the conveyor belt, go out into the world. I mean, it isn't the same as when I was out there, where you could go almost anywhere, but you can see America and see the world from a different perspective, be in other people's shoes, and opportunities will come clearer to you. And I think when you come back, you're going to be a more desirable candidate for a lot of people in other companies. And, you know, if you've been in School for 16, 18 years, you don't really know what you want to do. Why not take a beat and go out and see the world? It's the best classroom you will ever find.

[Fareed Zakaria]

Well, Tom Freston, what a pleasure, and thanks again to Biana Golodriga and thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. I will see you next week.