Fareed Zakaria GPS – Trump’s Standoff with Venezuela; Potential for Peace in Ukraine

Date: December 7, 2025
Host: Fareed Zakaria
Podcast: CNN Fareed Zakaria GPS

Overview

This episode dives into several major foreign policy crises facing the United States. First is President Trump’s escalating confrontation with Venezuela, now at its most dangerous point in decades. Fareed Zakaria hosts a panel with former top officials on Venezuela, dissecting the rationale, risks, and possible outcomes of the administration’s hardline approach. The episode then shifts to Ukraine, examining the response of ordinary Ukrainians to diplomatic maneuvers and a controversial Trump peace plan. Finally, Fareed explores the repercussions of a deadly DC shooting by an Afghan asylum-seeker, tying it to the administration's sweeping crackdown on immigration. The show wraps with insight on China’s dominance in drone technology and what it reveals about broader US-Chinese competition.

Key Segments & Analysis

1. Zakaria’s Take: The Attack on Meritocracy and Rise of Plutocracy

[02:08 – 08:51]

Main Points

• Zakaria opens by analyzing the shift in Trump’s second term: attacks on the "expert class" and a populist narrative that discredits elites in favor of wealth and loyalty.
• He warns that undermining meritocracy paves the way for plutocracy, where immense wealth determines access and influence.
• Uses as examples: cabinet full of billionaires, the Trump Organization’s skyrocketing income due to foreign deals, and the planned White House ballroom funded by private interests.
• Draws a historical parallel: replacing merit-based advancement with an 'artificial aristocracy' is contrary to the American ideal.

Notable Quotes

• “As the populist right trashes meritocracy, it is replacing it with something older, cruder and more corrosive. A naked plutocracy ruled by the very rich.” – Fareed Zakaria [05:12]
• “Today's plutocracy will inevitably turn into a new inherited elite, with families maintaining power and privileges for generations. This is the opposite of the American idea.” – Fareed Zakaria [07:57]

2. Venezuela: Trump’s Showdown

[08:51 – 21:21]

Guests

• Elliot Abrams: Former Special Representative for Venezuela
• James Story: Former US Ambassador to Venezuela

Key Topics

• Massive US military buildup in the Caribbean; Trump threatens imminent strikes on Venezuela.
• Fareed probes whether regime change is the real aim and the risks involved, recalling Iraq and Afghanistan.
• Abrams: Pressure through sanctions and failed elections have not budged Maduro. Suggests targeted military action is likely.
• Story: US credibility at stake; predicts limited strikes to facilitate regime fracture and Maduro’s exit.
• Both guests stress Venezuela’s past democratic institutions differentiate this situation from Middle Eastern interventions.
• Concerns about the complexity of Maduro’s removal, the prevalence of armed groups, and avoiding civil war.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “This is my hemisphere, this is our hemisphere. We can't have a hostile regime like this engaged in criminal activities, hooked up with Iran and Russia and China, and we're going to change it.” – Elliot Abrams [10:26]
• “You don't put 10% of the US Navy off the coast of Venezuela without a result.” – James Story [12:21]
• “This is not Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya... Venezuela had 50 years of democracy... It is surrounded in the Western Hemisphere by democracies.” – Elliot Abrams [15:45]
• “Venezuela is a country completely riddled with illegal armed groups... But this is more along the lines of Panama than Iraq or Afghanistan.” – James Story [16:57]
• “You have to identify them, you have to support them and you have to encourage them to help a democratic process.” – James Story [20:11]

3. Ukraine: American Diplomacy and Local Realities

[22:26 – 27:30]

Guest

• Natalia Gumenyuk: Ukrainian journalist

Key Topics

• Trump’s team (notably Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner) have introduced a “28-point peace plan” viewed as favoring Russia and undermining Ukrainian sovereignty.
• Ukrainian public and officials are wary, seeing negotiations as potentially dangerous, with fears the US is transitioning from ally to mediator, or worse, a Kremlin mouthpiece.
• Ukraine’s effort to build self-sufficiency in defense tech and lessen reliance on US support.
• Investigation and resignation of top Presidential aide Andriy Yermak marks a political reset, welcomed by public as a move against high-level corruption.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “It’s probably the worst version of the plan because it offers a lot of symbolic concessions from Ukraine, looks the closest to initial demands of Vladimir Putin. And... there is also the demand to give the territory which is the most fortified... while using your own fortified land to attack you in some years.” – Natalia Gumenyuk [23:16]
• “...the US is moving from the position from an ally to a mediator. But now for a spokesperson from the Kremlin. And that's not exactly where Ukraine wants to see the United States, of course.” – Natalia Gumenyuk [24:28]
• “Technologically, if we compare the situation in March and now in November, Ukraine is definitely less dependent on the Western technology. It still depends on the money.” – Natalia Gumenyuk [25:10]
• “The investigation is rather welcomed by the society. And the resignation... is also welcomed. It's more or less like a reset.” – Natalia Gumenyuk [26:10]

4. Domestic Fallout: Afghan Asylum and Immigration Crackdown

[28:24 – 34:34]

Guest

• Thomas Gibbons Neff: New York Times journalist and USMC veteran

Key Topics

• After a fatal shooting in DC by an Afghan asylum-seeker, the Trump administration halts all immigration from "countries of concern" and reviews green cards.
• Discussion on the vital role local interpreters and allies played in America’s wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
• The trauma and isolation experienced by Afghan immigrants upon resettling; cultural shock and loneliness often overlooked.
• Fears that already vulnerable Afghan communities will now face increased suspicion and difficulty due to a single criminal act.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “They were integral to the war effort and they had a belief that we would both never leave, and if we did leave, that we would somehow help them in one way, shape or form.” – Thomas Gibbons Neff [29:43]
• “...it is a huge cultural shock... just been very striking... how communal Afghanistan is... to this kind of individualistic culture... that’s been an extremely hard adjustment.” – Thomas Gibbons Neff [32:20]
• “When I saw that an Afghan was being accused of the shooting, I was immediately concerned... their lives were going to get more difficult... there was this idea that we would get them into the airport and get them on the plane and that things would get better. In hindsight... it just opened up... one battle after another.” – Thomas Gibbons Neff [33:42]

5. The Last Look: China’s Drone Revolution

[35:26 – 40:35]

Highlights

• China, not the US, now leads the world in drone and flying car technology, integrating them into daily life at scale.
• The dramatic expansion is the result of deliberate state policy, lax regulation, and a culture open to rapid adoption.
• US remains bogged down in regulatory caution—a stark contrast to China’s “process knowledge” and manufacturing ecosystem.
• Implications for global tech leadership; American companies are dwarfed by Chinese firms like DJI, which now dominate even US markets.

Memorable Quote

• “China’s lead in drones reflects precisely this: years spent building an ecosystem where process knowledge flows freely between workers, factories and firms... Drones are just one example of a deeper divergence between the US and China on adopting the technologies of the future... China is quite literally taking off.” – Fareed Zakaria [37:19, 40:35]

Memorable Moments

• Zakaria’s critique of the shift from meritocracy to plutocracy: “Today's plutocracy will inevitably turn into a new inherited elite…” [07:57]
• On limited credibility of regime change rhetoric: Fareed reminds his guests of the Wolfowitz doctrine in Iraq—that it would pay for its own reconstruction—a lesson in hubris. [18:29]
• Ukrainian cynicism toward US peace efforts: Natalia Gumenyuk’s frank summary of the Trump 28-point plan as enabling “a bigger war.” [23:16]
• Afghan-American struggles after arrival: “It just opened up one battle after another.” – Thomas Gibbons Neff, on perpetual refugee hardship [33:42]

Episode Structure & Flow

• 0:00–1:00: Introductions and house ads (skipped)
• 1:00–2:08: Program overview and thematic setup
• 2:08–8:51: Zakaria’s “take” on meritocracy and plutocracy
• 8:51–21:21: In-depth on Venezuela crisis with Elliot Abrams and James Story
• 22:26–27:30: Ukraine segment with journalist Natalia Gumenyuk
• 28:24–34:34: Afghan immigration, Trump crackdown with Thomas Gibbons Neff
• 35:26–40:35: Analysis of China’s drone tech dominance
• 40:35–end: Closing and ads (skipped)

Episode Tone

Zakaria and his guests are sharp, measured, and critical, blending policy analysis with skepticism about simplistic solutions—whether in regime change, diplomacy, or the administration’s domestic response to crisis. Ukrainian guest Natalia Gumenyuk and veteran journalist Thomas Gibbons Neff bring grounded, on-the-ground perspectives that highlight the often-missed human costs and local viewpoints.

For listeners seeking a smart, multidimensional discussion of global crises—and who want to understand what’s at stake for Venezuela, Ukraine, American democracy, and the future of technology—this episode of GPS is essential listening.