Helena Bonham Carter

Summary

Podcast Summary: Fashion Neurosis with Bella Freud: Helena Bonham Carter
Episode Date: December 17, 2025
Host: Bella Freud
Guest: Helena Bonham Carter

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Episode Overview

This intimate, witty, and often whimsical episode features actress Helena Bonham Carter exploring the deep, sometimes messy intersection of fashion, identity, body image, and life's transitions. With designer Bella Freud as the gracious, probing host, the conversation blends vulnerable self-reflection with sharp cultural commentary—touching on costumes, femininity, self-camouflage, family, grief, and art. Bonham Carter’s stories, delivered with candid humour and self-deprecation, highlight how clothing serves as both shelter and expressive tool, and how personal history, body image, and creative process mingle in one’s public and private personas.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Clothing as Camouflage, Comfort & Identity

• Helena’s Outfit of the Day (01:28 - 03:17)

  • Helena arrived wearing a black silk piece by Claire Campbell (“an old friend… forgiving to chunkier times”), a Yoshi jacket (“the special bit is the back”), bejewelled add-ons by Abby Walsh, and Bella Freud socks.
  • Clothes act as “a reliable friend… who will forgive too” and accommodate fluctuating self-image.

• Role of Designers and Personal Style (02:04 - 04:10)

  • Praises Claire Campbell, Vivienne Westwood, and Bella as designers who construct garments to suit real bodies (“her cutting… is transformative and Westwood… celebrated the female form”).

• Clothes as Mood, Armour, & Pretend (25:28 - 26:04 & 33:05 - 34:51):

  • “I rely on [clothes] to change my mood, to make me feel okay for whatever event I need to do. It’s like… what’s my interior weather like? What. What do I want to channel to make me basically have fun too, is a sense of pretend.” (Helena, 25:28)
  • Getting dressed is rarely about what others expect; it’s a selfish, intuitive act. (36:07)

• Packing & Self-Image (34:51 - 36:07)

  • Both confess to overpacking: “there’s nothing capsule about it… I have to make different outfits… I wish sometimes I was the jeans kinda person, but I’ve never been like that.” (Helena, 34:51)

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2. Fashioning and Resisting Femininity (17:03 - 21:29)

• Adolescent Androgyny & Gendered Expectations

  • Helena describes a youthful inclination toward androgynous dressing, partly from being in environments with boys and desiring to be taken seriously (“There’s a lot of sexism… if you were sexy, that was it. You couldn’t be clever. You couldn’t be funny.” 19:19)
  • Rejects high heels because they limit mobility: “I felt humiliated by them because I felt I couldn’t run, so. And I felt, you should be able to run away. Isn’t that crazy idea? But I just felt I need to feel empowered and myself.” (19:31)

• Body Preoccupations and Fetishism (20:47 - 24:55)

  • Open about self-consciousness: “All the time… I’ll always meet someone [and think] oh, thin legs, lucky person.” (21:11)
  • Reflects on the cultural origins of ‘perfect’ body ideals and the enduring pursuit of some unattainable norm, despite shifts in what’s fashionable: “everyone is making a ton of money going, oh, you can do this with that… magically improved life.” (22:46)
  • Finds something “friendly and accommodating about fetishism… it values what’s supposed to be an aberration.” (Bella, 23:15)

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3. The Transformative Power & Language of Costumes (12:16 - 14:30; 32:56)

• Inhabiting Different Eras

  • Helena felt more comfortable in period costume dramas than in her own adolescent clothing: “I felt more comfortable basically in a corset than I felt [in the present]… not literally because it was incredibly uncomfortable.” (13:17)
  • “Permission to dream, really, because you had… quite a delayed journey and entry into adulthood and you’re still coming…” (Helena, 14:46)

• The Costume Speaks First (32:56)

  • “Meryl Streep once told you… the costume speaks before you do. That’s so intelligent—all the clues are there.” (Bella quoting Meryl, 32:56)

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4. Family, Upbringing & Emotional Inheritance (15:00 - 17:38; 66:45 - 71:16)

• Parental Dynamics and Delayed Independence
  • Describes a “marriage” to her parents due to her father’s illness and her caregiving role, leading to moving out only at 30 (“I thought I’d really have to move out… when I was 30 I finally moved out… the brain only stops growing once you’re 30, so you’re fully adult” 15:20)
• Role Models & Fashion Legacy
  • Mother praised as an exotic dresser, father as “more on the receiving end” due to illness but indirectly influential.
  • On family ancestors: “I do think we carry our ancestors and where we’ve come from, and they’re only just here… makes us less lonely.” (Helena, 70:48)
• Inheritance of Grief and History (68:21)
  • Playing Lady Caterham in “The Seven” invoked a connection to her great uncle lost at the Somme: “Sometimes you find yourself doing things you don’t quite know why… then halfway through you go, well, of course I’m doing it because… and it all makes sense.”

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5. Compliments, Criticism & Self-Perception (26:48 - 29:21)

• Success vs. Failure: The Velcro Analogy
  • “Failure is like Velcro. Success is like oil.” (Helena’s brother, 26:52)
  • Helena tends to remember criticisms over compliments.
  • Most meaningful recent compliment (28:12): A priest said, “You give so much heart.” Helena: “I do that. I do give of myself. I have an open heart, pretty much… I genuinely love people. So I suppose that… I won’t dispute that. I have heart.” (28:54)

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6. Camouflage, Eccentricity & the Invention of Signature Style (38:06 - 40:20)

• Pantaloonies & the Insecurity-Eccentricity Link

  • Helena created “Pantaloonies”—bloomers for concealment and comfort. She references Frida Kahlo and Lulu Guinness: “a lot of people’s eccentricity or art in how they dress… is usually to cover up something. It’s a camouflage…” (38:30)
  • “Hang ups are the insecurities that the mother of invention. Totally.” (Helena, 38:30)

• Nudity and Armour

  • Clothes as both shield and fantasy: “I mean, I don’t feel great when I’m naked. Not lately… But I was covered in makeup, which, I will say, is a bit of an armor.” (Helena, 40:45)

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7. Research, Role Preparation & Creative Process (46:56 - 50:52)

• Handwriting & Astrology as Character Tools
  • Helena uses graphology and astrology to study real-life roles: “Whenever I play someone who’s real, I will tend to… give the handwriting to my [graphologist] aunt Renata… I go to this amazing astrologer called Darby Costello… you’ve got… concentrated essence of person there on a plate.” (Helena, 47:22–49:44)
  • Research is both a craft and a form of self-soothing: “I have a sort of extremely… obsessive compulsive way of going in search of somebody.” (50:21)

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8. Divorce, Loss, and Growth (53:04 - 55:12)

• The Aftermath of Divorce
  • Emerging from separation with Tim Burton, Helena reflects: “I think I was incredibly grateful for my friendships… my appreciation of them got bigger… I had to almost hitchhike on other people’s families… If you don’t fit each other, it takes a lot of bravery, but it’s better to move than stop each other from growing.” (54:04)
  • On never marrying: “I’ve never actually gotten married because I can’t say those… promises. I just don’t think it’s a healthy one.” (55:13)

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9. Public Image, Privacy & Playfulness (56:00 - 58:19)

• Navigating Notoriety
  • “Don’t ever engage or look at what your [image] is online… It’s the sum total of what people want you to be, but it might have very little to do with oneself. Otherwise there lies madness.” (Helena, 56:13)
  • Recalls her mum turning a stain on white silk into a playful moment: “If you stumble, make it part of the dance.” (Helena, 57:48)

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10. On Attraction & Signature Characters (58:19 - 63:12)

• Attraction Goes Beyond Style
  • “If I fancy someone it’s going to be about an energetic sex… it’s more to do with what they’re wearing on the inside, isn’t it?... you can’t change what they look like.” (58:28)
• Bellatrix Lestrange & Inner Children
  • Channeled arrested development for Bellatrix (“she’s not grown up, she’s very arrested… playing a baddie, if they are childish they enjoy that… Being young for me is very easy inside…permission to play”—61:21)
  • Related the “need to distinguish yourself” in Bellatrix to historical figures with infamous notoriety for standing apart in their families (Unity Mitford). (61:58)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Clothing as Reliable Friend:
  “It’s a reliable friend who will forgive too because I’ve definitely… chunked up in the bars here. But still… it accommodates the chunk.”
  — Helena, 02:12

• On Compliments and Criticism:
  “Success is like oil and failure is like Velcro… any criticism will just encrypt itself into you… stick, whereas any success… I just don’t probably listen.”
  — Helena, 26:52

• On Style and Self-Acceptance:
  “I have to find different gears, I have to make different outfits. And of course I’m inventing this person who will change three times a day. I mean there’s no way that I’ll ever wear what I pack.”
  — Helena, 34:21

• On the Role of Costume:
  “The costume speaks before you do. That’s so intelligent—as all the clues are there.”
  — Bella quoting Meryl Streep, 32:56

• On Old Family Wounds:
  “I do think we carry our ancestors and where we’ve come from… it makes us less lonely.”
  — Helena, 70:48

• On Attraction:
  “If I fancy someone it’s going to be about an energetic sex… it’s more to do with what they’re wearing on the inside, isn’t it?”
  — Helena, 58:28

• On Making the Most of Your Mistakes:
  “If you stumble, make it part of the dance.”
  — Helena, 57:48

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Timeline of Notable Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 01:28 | Helena describes her outfit and its emotional impact| | 06:59 | On the demands and existential weirdness of acting | | 12:16 | On entering film with "Room with a View" | | 19:29 | Helena reflects on androgynous dressing, femininity | | 21:11 | On self-consciousness and body image | | 23:15 | Fetishism and body positivity | | 25:28 | Clothes as mood-changers and armour | | 26:48 | Most meaningful compliments and keeping criticism | | 32:56 | “Costume speaks before you do” | | 34:51 | The neurosis of packing and self-image | | 38:30 | How insecurities shape personal style (“pantaloonies”)| | 40:45 | On comfort (and discomfort) in nudity | | 46:56 | Using astrology and graphology in role research | | 54:04 | Coping with divorce and friendship’s importance | | 56:13 | Navigating public image as a public figure | | 57:48 | “If you stumble, make it part of the dance.” | | 61:21 | Channeling childlike energy for Bellatrix Lestrange | | 68:21 | Portraying grief and ancestral resonance in “The Seven”|

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Final Thoughts

Bella Freud and Helena Bonham Carter craft a free-flowing, revealing exploration of how clothing becomes language, shield, fantasy, therapy, and—in moments of pure play—a source of joy. Helena’s openness about insecurity, transformation, and familial inheritance, peppered with her self-effacing wit and warmth, makes this conversation far more than a fashion chat: it’s a meditation on self-acceptance, creativity, and the quiet, persistent work of becoming visible on one’s own terms.

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Transcript

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

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[Helena Bonham Carter]

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[Podcast Host / Narrator]

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[Helena Bonham Carter]

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[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Hi, come in. Welcome to Fashion Neurosis. Helena Bonham Carter.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Thanks for having me.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Can you tell me what you're wearing today and why you chose these particular clothes?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Well, I thought I would. It was a danger of overthinking it and actually you texted me on Monday and I was at my cousin's funeral and I thought actually these will do. And also this thing which is a beautiful black silk thing which I've managed to dribble makeup down but when clean, it's potentially lovely. And it's by somebody called Claire Campbell who used to design for high.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Right.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

And it's been like one of my all time favorite designers. She used to do Gerbo and then she was High.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah, yeah, I've definitely heard her name.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

She's really extraordinary and I love what she did particularly when she was designing for High. And it's really clever construct you can't really see because I'm not probably selling it in this. But it's, it's like an old friend, you know how like some clothes are. It's a reliable friend who will forgive too because I've definitely, I go up and down chunk. Definitely have chunked up in the bars here. But still it's not one of the dresses that I, it'll, it still accommodates the chunk. And also I've decorated with a friend of mine who makes these little things. She's called Abby Walsh and she just makes these little addendums, sparkly and. And then this is a jacket that is Yoshi I think. But again you can't really see it. The back that it's sort of special bit is, is, is the back which obviously can't See, I feel comfy in it.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

And I feel it's forgiving. And then I couldn't not wear something of yours.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Oh, I love the socks.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

I mean, if I had a different body shape, I'd wear your stuff all the time. And I'm not just sucking up because I'm in a position of sheer vulnerability at this point, but I would. But I'm just not your shape. I mean, I. Or maybe that's an insult you design, but I just. I feel like if I was more androgynous. I do have one of your shirts, and I always love what, like, what you're wearing now with that. Like the bow.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

And I love pink and black.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Oh, good. Because I was wearing white and I switched to pink.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

I was trying to match you without knowing what you'd be wearing telepathically.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

I mean, pink and black, it's not a bow, a tie. But I mean, I. You know, I love that look.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

And. But I also love a lot of what you make. I love the dog, which I wanted to ask you about, of your sign. And. And the. Hello. County has just served me so well.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Oh.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

So in mug form, in sock form, picture form, I tends to cover all my, like, rap gifts. And actually, do, you know, come to now is a really legit compliment, isn't it?

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

It is, yeah. It's sort of evolving into one because it started. I came across it because from the. There used to be this place, the Colony Club, that my father went to, and it was started by this old lesbian called Muriel Belcher, who, such a great name, referred to everyone as she. I think they start, she started in 1949 even, and. And she used to call everyone, greet them, hello, Kanti. And everyone was a she. And then Francis Bacon, who was her favorite, was the daughter. That was her biggest compliment.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

You're the daughter.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah. And so that's where it came from. I thought it was such a good story. And then young people sort of have taken up the word cunt as a compliment. Like Alex Khonsani, this amazing model, and she refers to things as. It's cunt.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

It's such a good word, isn't it?

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

It's so good. I just love the words.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

I'm so glad that now it's a positive thing, as opposed before in some horribly misogynistic sort of ingrained way. It was an insult.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

It is a good insult.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Yeah. It's a really. It's a good insult. But at the same time, the fact that it was used as an insult says something.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

It's like done a sort of full circle of becoming a compliment, you know, it's. But yeah, because you're a multi award winning actress and you've appeared in both independent and blockbuster movies and age 13, you contacted a friend at school's acting agent and pretended you knew her and to get her blessing and the agent signed you. And an actor friend recently, a very kind of quiet, introverted person said you have to want to live or die for this. And I wondered if that's how you experience it.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

It's an insane way of earning a living and it is a gamble. You kind of have to live and sort of not really know what else to do with your life. Yeah, it's like, it's a very odd thing because it's taken very seriously and you have to take it seriously, not yourself. You do have to take the job seriously because it's so over subscribed and there's so many of us out there pretending to be other people but essentially it's play, you know, we're just playing, I mean when it's best. But to be honest, after a bit, a lot of the time I've been going like, okay, this is the last job, I'm out of here. And then basically I don't know what else I'd do or earn a living doing, you know, I don't know. With lots of actors, which bit do they actually enjoy and which bit is the best bit?

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah, that's. I'd never thought of it like that. But what is the best bit? Because there are so many layers of.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Fraughtness or so much fear, insecurity, terror, anxiety. I think the best bit for me, one of the best bits, there are quite a few best bits is getting the job. Possibility for me always is something that's the most exciting state of like seeing the chance for many possibilities and potential. And then bit by bit they sort of disappear as you end up doing it because you have to actually make choices. And then, you know, the most depressing moment is when you actually watch the thing and you go, oh my God, I just still me. Or, or all the hope of which is for me usually I basically want to escape myself and then I'm confronted with myself. So it's the same circle of like ah, yeah, I'm going to be finally free of this envelope. And then, oh no, it's just me again. Having said that, when it's going well and you're in the flow and you're working with somebody you trust and with people you trust. And it's a whole load of people whose talent or lack of you depend on or vulnerable to when it's going well and it's just happening. That's the state of bliss, which I guess for any artist, that's what you, you're always trying to attain. You know, that moment when you, there is no ego. There's no little, you know, Pac man inside you going, or that was or da da da, or, and something comes through you. But that must probably what's the best bit of what you do.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah, I know. I know exactly what you mean. And I think, I love the thing you said about getting the part and, and I think the critical voice is much calmer. I can sort of separate it out from, I can stop it being such a magnet for everything else now and think, oh yeah, there it goes. Or, you know, watch out for that and remember to be in the moment.

[Nicole Phelps]

Hi, I'm Nicole Phelps, global director of Vogue Runway and Vogue Business and host of the Run through podcast. Every Tuesday, join me for the latest fashion news like the shakeups of Balenciaga and Dior and what's trending in Paris and Milan. You'll also hear interviews with top designers from Marc Jacobs and Rick Owens to Daniel Roseberry, Sarah Burton and many more. On Thursdays, Chloe Maul, editor of Vogue.com and Choma Nadi, head of editorial content at British Vogue, take you behind the scenes at Vogue and share their thoughts on fashion through the lens of culture. You'll hear interviews with some of your favorite stars like Julianne Moore, Pharrell Williams, and celebrity stylist Law Roach. Join us to get your fashion and culture news twice a week. Listen to the Run through with Vogue every Tuesday and Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kara Swisher]

Hi everyone, this is Kara Swisher. And this week on my podcast on with Kara Swisher, I'm interviewing one of my favorite people, Rachel Maddow. We Talk with the MSNow host about her new narrative podcast about the incarceration of Japanese Americans during World War II. You may think you know that story, but you actually don't. And we also break down the parallels between Japanese internment and Trump's mass deportation policies. Take a listen.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

People who are working in the regime right now that is terrorizing people on the basis of race explicitly, they're gonna have to answer for it. And they may have to answer for it just to their own families and to God, but if we do this right, they're gonna have to answer in court as well.

[Kara Swisher]

The full conversation is out now and you can find it wherever you get your podcast. Search for on with Kara Swisher and hit follow.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

But you first came into my orbit as Lucy Honeychurch in Room with a View and you were playing opposite Daniel Day Lewis and Julian Sands and Denham Elliott and they're all kind of outsiders in a way. And I. It's part of why I find it such a wonderful film. Did playing in a different century and wearing the clothes of that time give you a canvas to inhabit and also conceal yourself within?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Totally. I spent my childhood, which I guess are we kind of the same age? Seventies.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Childhood, yeah.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

My. Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

But watching those like I wanted to be inside a television set and I loved period period costume dramas. There was like a particular slot on a Sunday afternoon at about 5:30 which had like an adaptation of E. Nesbit or, you know, it was a. Definitely. It was a costume drama. Yeah. And. Or ballet shoes or. I can't think of the ones I really. Or Phoenix and the Carpet or the Little Princess or. And I spent my. I was just thinking about it the other day because I went to Laura Ashley's house in Wales the other day and I thought, oh my God. I went to the toilet and there were all these pictures of Laura Ashley in her gear. And I said that that's what my fantasy of Victoriana was in the 70s. But I didn't realize it actually looks more 70s than Victorian. But that was what I wanted to be. So when I was cast as a. Well, she's a dian. It was real dress up, make believe. I never felt totally comfortable in the now of whatever period I was. I mean like me when I was dressed, you know, as an adolescent I was in sacks and things that I thought I was a balloon spree. I was always dressing for a different time. So I felt more comfortable basically in a corset than I felt.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Not.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Not literally because it was incredibly uncomfortable. And that kind of head to toe camouflage, frankly, does cover a hell of a lot. And as a. Permission to dream really, because you had.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Quite a delayed journey and entry into.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Adulthood and you're still coming, Still happening. Yeah.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Your mother had a nervous breakdown and then your father was diagnosed with a brain tumor and an operation left him paralyzed. And you said living at home may have acted as an unconscious chastity belt. And I wondered did you imagine who would see beyond that and to be attracted to you?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Well, quite a lot of people did. I mean it wasn't exactly highly functional. It was a pretty loose chastity belt that's good. I mean the screws came out, it was like. But I was definitely married principally to my parents until quite a bit I guess until my. No, not until my dad died. But when I was 30 I thought I'd really have to move out. And that's when I very self consciously walked up the hill and entered a estate agent. And weirdly enough, the place, the one place that I'd seen two years before when I was 28, but I still thought it was too soon. It had just come on the market again and was a hundred thousand less it sort of fated. And it's a particular space because I'm. I'm pretty particular about spaces and envelopes. I mean I'm particular about clothes also particular about interior envelopes and you know, how we furnish, how we dress our homes. So. And it's. And it was amazingly waiting for me. I felt, God, I love you. So yeah, When I was 30 I finally moved out which apparently lately they've said, well that the brain only stops growing once you're 30, so you're fully adult. The brain is right biologically when you're 30.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah, yeah. I knew there was something about 25, but I know about 30. I related to you talking about dressing in a very. And in an androgynous way when you were a very young woman. And yeah, I was talking to my shrink about that because I was thinking about why you did it and why I did it. And he said he asked me if my mother had backed my femaleness as I was developing, as it was developing and she hadn't. And I wondered if yours had.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

I think so. I think mom, I mean mom as a role model was somebody who dressed very femininely and very exotically and was definitely an example of someone who like dressing up and. She. As far as my femaleness, to be honest, I mean my father was so ill I was left very much on my own. I mean she was an amazing mother and as present as she could be. But a lot of it was all about my dad in my teens, I guess so. But I think it was more to do with the time that I was very into androgyny and as I said, I went to Westminster which was full of boys school and I remember the feeling and then even later on early 20s feeling like if I was going to be taken seriously I should dress more boyishly and have waistcoats and things. And there's a lot of sexism which I wasn't really aware but now I am looking back on it, I Remember a really hilarious makeup artist. Amazing man. But he was saying. He said to me, like, women, really, there aren't many funny women. He, he, he. I remember him singling out Joanna Lumley. And I was going, like, oh, really? Aren't there. Oh, am I on the wrong sex to be funny? Or.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

God.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

And it was this horrible thing that if you were sexy, you could be sexy. But that was it.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

There was nothing else. You couldn't be clever. You can be funny. It was like it would eclipse everything. So it was a difficult thing to be. So I didn't feel comfy being a woman.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

And I wanted somehow to be not patronized. I also had this determination not to be on high heels, partially because they're crippling, but I felt humiliated by them because I felt I couldn't run, so. And I felt, you should be able to run away. Isn't that crazy idea? But I just felt I need to feel empowered and myself. And I don't want someone looking at my chest. I don't want to have. I don't want to be inspected. Which is a stupid instinct, given that. I mean, it's a great instinct. But then, look, what I've ended up doing is I've been in front of a camera for so long, but I know that I do everything to camouflage myself in costume and in life, it's constantly camouflaging. It's not about exposing myself. I'm not remotely interested in exposing myself. I'm very private, and I want to invent myself, reinvent myself, but not reveal. Which I think I'm basically in the.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Wrong profession, you know, because you've described liking to dress Victorian, and you said I wasn't mad on my thighs and lower half.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

My brother's still not even less mad.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

You said your brother's nickname for me was PB Prominent Bum. And. But people fetishize body parts and many fetishes. And alpha PB Prominent bum. Yeah. And I wondered if you. Did you ever find yourself noticing other people's bodies because of your own self consciousness?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

All the time. I mean, I'll always meet someone. I'll go, oh, thin legs, lucky person.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Or yeah, or yeah, got a neck. Or.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Because I was talking to my shrink about this. This obsession with a perfect body, which I certainly had a lot of my life, and especially as a young person, this rigid self, this terrible kind of exacting way of looking at myself. And he said, where do you think you got this idea of a perfect body from?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

That's culture.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

I Don't know. I think it was the 70s that somehow this thing you were talking about of there was a way to look Barbie.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

I mean, we were surrounded very early on. You're given. Sorry, I interrupted something.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

No, no, Interrupt away. I never had Barbies or any of that kind of thing.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Or did you have a Pippa doll?

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

I didn't have a doll. I hated dolls. I wanted to have a doll's guillotine so I could chop their heads off.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Hey, that's clever.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

I didn't have a doll or a doll's gift guillotine. So what did you have?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

I had pepper dolls. I had Barbies, Cindy. I had a lot. A lot of dolls.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

They were dolls, these androgynous shapes with huge tits. So I thought that was it. Yeah, I definitely didn't have that.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

It's horrible to spend most of our lives thinking of what we don't have and such a waste of time, ultimately. But I suppose it's something to do with what you can control or trying and then how everyone is making a ton of money going, oh, you can do this with that. And then. And somehow with that promise of the perfect eyelash is, you know, a magically improved life.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

But I find there's something quite friendly and accommodating about fetishism, then, that is very including of. Of what's supposed to be an aberration. That it values it, I mean.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Yeah, well, you mean celebrates it.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

So what is a fetishist? Is it making it sexualized, something that you really desire?

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

I think it's. Yeah, I suppose it's quite sort of specific. But people who have a love of a particular bit of a body or how a bit is. Or, you know, feet is a sort of famous one, but, you know, prominent bums are really popular. You know, they've become a whole thing in our culture now.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Yeah. Thanks to Kim.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah, it's really great. I like that shapeliness is in fashion, even if I don't really.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Well, I think it's in fashion, but then again, then everyone's starving themselves or hurling themselves onto, you know, a zempic. And so the thin thing is still coming back. And I do think there's something that's. I don't know. What is it? What is that about? I mean, is it just a denial of pleasure or flesh or sexuality or whatever keeps on coming back, but then.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Flesh seems to be what, when it comes down to it, what people do like, rather than the opposite.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Yeah. You don't want to get into bed with a skeleton. I mean, not most of us. And. And that's where clever cutting happens.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yes, exactly.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

You know, that's why I love Claire actually, because her cutting is. It is transformative and Westwood. That's why I loved her because she really celebrated the female form.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Like the proper set of boobs. And whatever weight you were, you knew that you were. It was like wearing a building in the best of sense. Like she could re engineer your whole body just by putting you in a thing. And you go like, I know what shape I am. I think that's a. It's an armor.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

You know, I think we need clothes. Well, I need clothes depending on. I rely on them to change my mood in order to make me feel okay for whatever event I need to do. It's like, what's my interior weather like? What's it. What does it need? And what do I feel that. What. What do I want to channel to make me basically have fun too is a sense of pretend. Then unfortunately, you might see a photo of what you thought you were projecting and it's a million miles from what you were hoping. But it doesn't matter.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

I agree. Because now I think there's bad photos too. And that isn't necessarily how you did look on that night. It's a night.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

You can't capture. I mean, I know enough about exactly right. There's bad photos. A photo is just one tiny second and it's an amalgamation of the light of the. Of so many different things. But when one is truly animated. Well, just in real life, like you and me, you know, that is a totally different thing. And that's the definition of a great photographer going like, yes, you caught that person or painter.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

You caught them in stillness.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

And what's the best compliment you've ever been given?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

It's funny, I saw that and I just thought, I can't remember. And then I thought, oh, that's typical. Is that I'm very good at remembering all the bad reviews and all the criticisms. And my brother said the other day, I think, was it Churchill or somebody said that somebody was somebody else. That it's like failure is like, it couldn't have been Churchill because Velcro didn't exist. I don't think successes like oil and failures like Velcro. And so like any criticism will just like encrypt itself into your, you know, stick. Whereas any success just you. I just go, I just don't probably listen, I suppose so I have no idea.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

But do you feel it? There's anything that someone said to you that has kind of resonated that you thought, oh, you notice that, you know, that it sort of reverberates somewhere or other.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

A director I just worked with, he said that there was something about me being very careful.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

That doesn't sound like a problem. And you're avoiding it. There must be something.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

I met a priest at the funeral on the Monday, and he said, you give so much heart. And I thought, yeah, I do that. I don't think. I mean, I do try and I do give of myself. It might not be a fortunate outcome, but I definitely. Whatever I'm doing, wherever I give of, I am, you know, I try awfully hard and I do pull myself and I have an open heart, pretty much so. And I genuinely love people. So I suppose that that was a compliment that I thought, yeah. No, I won't dispute that.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

I have heart.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah. It's interesting. Is it? I find things come in and then they just stop against a window pane. But I don't. At least they're there splattered up against the window. I think maybe. Maybe I can. Maybe later, you know, but it's nice to get them anyway.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

But what stops you from opening the window and going, okay, I accept that.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

It'S some sort of notion of I will forget how to discriminate about what's true or false. I mean, it's like old, ancient history, but. And I know it's a nice thing and I want that, but it's just an old habit of worrying that somehow, you know, get above myself and lose up my way of judging things.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Yeah. An inflated head and you don't want to get above yourself. But were your mum and dad at all. Were they complimentary and supportive?

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

My mother, it's. I think she sort of forgot to tell me the ordinary things about, like, looking nice or pretty or anything. Don't remember her saying things like that. And she did. She occasionally would say the opposite, which of course, I never forgot. And my father didn't. My father was very. He didn't say much, but he implied that he thought highly of me or well, of me, or he would notice what I wore and like, what I was wearing. I remember when I went to sit for him for the first time. I was wearing this dress that I bought in a. You know, in a market or something. And he said, oh, I like that. And then that was what I wore for the painting. And then we did another painting with that dress. So that even that was. There was a feeling of approval of what I was Wearing and that was really. I really appreciated it and treasured it.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Did he rate clothing? Did he?

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah, he did. He had his suits made and I remember asking him about it once and he said, well, I used to sort of try out different things. Like I had a jacket made with no vent at the back and sort of bivvy style things. And then he sort of dressed. He found a way that he liked to dress and he always looked cool though.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

So he found his sort of uniform.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yes. Yeah, he had really good style. It was wonderful. He used to wear grey flannel suits as well in the evening to go out and he looked fantastic. And then he never wore a tie because I didn't. Don't think he liked the feeling of the constraint. So he'd wear a silk scarf, he'd buy these silk scarves in the market. Then we'd all look out for them and you can't get them anymore. I think we got them all for him because. But you said Meryl Streep once told you something you've never forgotten, which is the costume speaks before you do. That's so intelligent as all the clues are there. And do you think about that in your daily life?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

No, in my daily life, when I wake up and when I'm dressing myself.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Think of what, what do you want to impart?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Oh yeah. No, I don't think about what I want in part. But I might feel like what do I need to make me feel better inside? Or what will make me feel more together, frankly or capable of functioning? Definitely match the envelope with oh, this will make me feel grounded or this, I feel this or that. And it changes, obviously, because once forever changing. And then having said that, there's the reality of time and often wear the same thing for days and. But like when it comes to packing for the holiday, for a holiday or any trip away, that is a nightmare because I have to, I find myself packing. There's nothing capsule about it. There's nothing like I have to find different gears, I have to make different outfits. And of course I'm inventing this person who will change three times a day. I mean there's no way that I'll ever wear what I pack. Ever. And you'd think by now I'd learn, but so I have to complete like a get up for each. Not each day, but I'll take a lot of get ups. Yeah, for different looks, but I'm not. I wish sometimes that I was like the jeans kind of person, that I had jean legs and I could just have three leg, three legs, three legs, three pairs of jeans, T shirt, you know, I've never been like that. Like, who packs like that? You know? Yeah, but that's like somebody who's just got a different body and different psyche to.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

To me, such a thing, isn't it? Because I've never been able to pack in that succinct way. Or hand luggage. Forget it. Even if it's a weekend, I still like a nice, huge suitcase because even though I know I won't wear it, I need to have it there. And I think, well, maybe I might wear it and that's enough for it to go in. And now I just accept that. And I. It's so relaxing because I had a phobia about packing for years. Years and years.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Yeah, me too.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

It's so stressful. Take days and days and. And then I'd still forget some whole category, like pants.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Oh, so.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Or hair stuff, or the crucial thing, like the toothbrush or the contact lenses when I wore them.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

But instead I'd have some varieties of little, you know, cardigan sort of typey things.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

And do you ever pack anything to wear that you think people will expect to see you in? Because you have such a strong look and you do cross, you know, eras. You do it in a very modern way. And I wondered.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Oh, thanks, Bella.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah. You're really good at it.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

I don't think I ever packed to do anything to be expected, if anything. I think, oh, I want to always. I never think about what people expect, to be honest. It's like all. It's quite a selfish impulse. And also, I do think part of my, you know, in my head, my negative seltzer is I've become such a cliche. I do think, like, oh, God, you look. And I always think I'm transforming myself and go, like, no, you're basically the same sort of silhouette or the same. And I've got too much on usually. My ex used to say. Tim used to say, most people take. Was it Coco Chanel? Say, like, take something off before you leave.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Oh, really?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Yeah. Which is quite a clever thing.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

But he says, don't take one thing off with you. You've got to take seven things off. It's true. It's just way too much. And I think I love decoration and. And it's fun. And I also know it's gonna be. It's like playing in toys with old women. Particularly, like, oh, where'd you get that? Where they. You know. It's fun.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

So, like, today I suddenly thought, why am I thinking? I thought, well, Bella might like it as this, like pearl frame, you know, pearl. It's from frame, but you know, to hold my glasses, the pearls. Cause I always think the pearls, it's quite a nice thing to have. Well one, it's around your neck so you don't lose your glasses. But also when you, you got them on, you've got this like pearl frame. That actually is very flattering.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

I mean, Coco Chanel said pearls throw a light on a woman's face and a woman should always have a string of pearls. I actually have got one because of reading that from way back.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Well, I'll show you when I get vertical later.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

I wanted to ask you about your label pantaloonies, which is something I really loved. I wondered how you came about doing that because I was going to ask you if you think somehow hang ups and insecurities about our bodies make us come up with a good look.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Oh, I think it's like the mother of invention, isn't it? It's not necessity, it's hang ups are the insecurities that the mother of invention. Totally. I mean, with the pantaloonies, well, there are two strands to it. One was, were bloomers, basically. And I always thought, although now, hello, they're in but 20 years ago. So why, why can't, why can't I get any bloomers? I could only get vintage bloomers and they were all about, you know, disguising chunky thighs and bums and like Frida Kahlo, I think she invented her whole costume, her whole look because of, you know, his disability.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

And Lulu Guinness, she said she was never a jeans leggy person, so she went 50s. So I think a lot of people's eccentricity or art in how they dress and present themselves to the world is usually to cover up something. It's a camouflage, you know. My mom has sort of always gone sort of as she got older. She obviously loved food, so she sort of became. But her shape was like more of a tent, you know. And now guess what I'm becoming. I've got these tent clothes now. And you're like, ah, this is what happens.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

And how do you feel about nudity? Are there things you like to wear to feel naked or can you naked or sexy? Well, they're different because it depends how, when you're naked do you feel? I find I have to wear something to feel naked, otherwise I've just got nothing on.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Well, isn't that the point of being naked? Are you telling Me that in the shower you wear some shoes.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

No.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

You wear a jacket.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

I hadn't thought of that. It would be very sexy. As soon as you put something on and you're naked.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

It becomes more sexy. But I wondered how you are about being naked.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

I mean different bits of my life. I. I'm not. I don't feel great when I'm naked. Not lately. And I did a scene in a thing for Steve McQueen who's amazing director.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah he's wonderful.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

And I did a whole scene. It was. It was a pilot. It never got shown but it was about a 15 minute scene naked with an apron and some. I had some really good. And a Millermeister clogs and I was entirely naked but I wasn't naked because I was covered in makeup. Which I will say is makes you. It. It's a bit of an armor. But I was definitely naked. Yeah. And I had a perfume. I do think perfumes can add. You do wear that is part of the outfit.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Definitely a mood changer and gives you an armor or creates an atmosphere. When I was younger I didn't mind so much being naked but it's not a great look now.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

I'm the opposite. I'm really. I would never be naked now. I might. You know.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Well done woman.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

I know I'm going the wrong way around but at least it's happening. I'm quite pleased about.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

I know that wrong way around thing and I've gone the wrong way around about lots of things but not about being naked.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

And I loved you as Princess Margaret in the Crown. You would. You reminded us all of how attractive she. She had been and I met her once when I. When I was 17. I went to Musdique. I was sort of supposed to be doing a job there and. And she.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

What's your job? You're doing a mustique.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

I was taking people horse riding. I went. I was sort of sent. Anyways.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Horse riding?

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah. So I was supposed to be looking after the horses and. And she was there. She. Because it belonged to Colin Tennant and who was a friend of my dad's and. And then. So I remember going to a cocktail party at her house and she was very remote and Roddy Llewellyn was extremely friendly and you said you met her through a psychic and you were consulting about something else and she pushed her way in and I wondered what she'd said.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Yeah. I mean I did actually meet her not via the psychic I mean in real life but there was a funny. And she was very remote in fact, she was remote and quite. I met her a couple of times because she. She told me, actually it was at Windsor, you know, when the place burnt down. And then they had a thing where they invited people to see the new hall, I guess.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

And I remember meeting her there and she was saying. She said, oh, you are getting better, aren't you? And I was kind of like, oh, God. And then I think that's quite funny because I just thought, well, I'm glad I'm getting better because I ended up playing her. So. But then the psychic bit was, yeah, I was seeing someone. I'm interested in all that. And this particular medium person who's. I was asking about something else, which I don't necessarily take wholehearted, but I like just trying anything. It's an adventure. And I definitely feel that some people have gifted with another sense. But it was so remarkable what this. She said, I feel there's this woman. Does it make any sense? She had no idea what was about to do, what my job was. And she's in full regalia. She's a royal as, like, geez. And she. The thing, the bit of advice, not that I remember everything, but the one thing that I remember thinking that said, don't underestimate the power of the cigarette and holder as a form of expression.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Gosh.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Which actually, I thought, that's a really good note. And I knew that in my sort of exploring about Margaret, she. There was very, you know, she wasn't very tall, she was tiny. And I think Nikki Haslam said that was what she minded. She didn't mind about being, you know, her younger sister and the heir, but she did mind about being so tiny and that her great granny had. Or her granny had said something about her really early on when she was a child, about being so short. So she did everything to elongate her. And so. And if you're royal, you know, you. You're really. Your job is to be seen. So she was very good at posing and. And that the. You know, the cigarette holder and that wouldn't be an extra line. She was also knew about dancers, you know, so creating lines in.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

That's so interesting.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

That definitely helped. So I thought that is actually a great note.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

God, that's brilliant, isn't it? How I love the idea of her zooming into your. You know, your.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Well, she elbowed her way through because I wasn't actually consulting about. I do think, strangely, in a way, you kind of want to put it if you're playing someone who actually existed and is no longer with us. You kind of want them on side and, you know, you're. You. You want to feel that you've got a responsibility and also that they wouldn't mind. It's like writing someone's biography. You go like. It's a tricky one morally.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

It's a good, good idea, though, because you've also checked out potential partner's handwriting with a graphologist. And I wondered what shone out about your boyfriend's handwriting and what. What your own handwriting reveals to you, if there's anything that immediately occurred to you that you hadn't thought of from doing that.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Well, the graphologist, who I can start, is my aunt, who is 95 and lives in New York and is an amazing woman and unbelievably astute as a graphologer. And over the years she's pointed things out to me. I mean, of course, no one in our family writes to her anymore, unfortunately, because it's like we don't want to have an X ray, you know, an mri, as it were. Psychological mri, as someone said earlier. And no one writes anyway, sadly, I mean, I do love handwriting. It's something that I actively enjoy doing myself. And I remember Renata saying years ago, oh, you're getting much more confident. And I had no idea. And I had lots of different kinds of handwriting and it doesn't matter. She still can detect what's going on in you.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

And there's some amazing things she can tell to do with. It's quite complex. I gave my boyfriend, but I. She didn't. She looked at it for a second and said, actually, I don't want to look. She, like, loves him anyway, so she just said, let's not even go. So maybe there was a question mark with the handwriting anyway.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

God, that's fascinating.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

It is fascinating. So it's like a real. So whenever I play someone who's real, who's existed, I will tend to. There's two witches, there's Renata, who's my graphologist. I give her the handwriting. So she gave that. She looked at Margaret's handwriting, but throughout her life. And the Queen Moms and Elizabeth Taylor, and I've got a whole archive of real people. And then also I go to this amazing astrologer called Darby Costello, who's like, you do an hour and a half with her. And because with each. I'm pretty anal with research, you know, rather than write. Reading the biography, which I'll read anyway. You'll have three inches of biography. William Shawcross on the Queen on the Queen mother and you go to derby within an hour, you've got like 50 minute, you know, it's just concentrated essence of person there on a plate. And that's fascinating.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah, that's such a brilliant idea.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

And sometimes you can gather all these info and then you see, then you cross reference and you go like, yeah, okay. The common thing that everyone goes. Because I find it's helpful to boil down the essence before in trying to, you know, explore someone. Like getting to a source.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

And if you gather all these different things and then, and then you've got the real ingredient. You go like, oh, that's the pith. Or that's the thing.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Is that where you start from when you get that sense and then you build outwards from there.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

I have a sort of collection. I've got a sort of extremely, probably over anal, obsessive compulsive way of going in search of somebody, which is what I get off on, I guess is possibility. My ex said, you're not writing a flipping biography. It's like I said, well, in a way I am. I'm wearing it on the inside side. And well, that's why you're so good. Well, I don't know.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

You are. You're really good. It's you always just every time you're in a part this, it's exciting because it feels like there's something to find out. And I know that's the same in every film, but you really do bring that your characters and this one, why you're so popular and everyone loves your work and you.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

This is my compliment.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah, I'm very good at paying them. I love paying compliments, even though I.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Like paying compliments too. What's the connection between the suffrage movement and prohibition? You know, their thinking was, hey, one way to protect our rights to live and have a family and protect our children from violence would be to outlaw alcohol. It's not a crazy idea given there's nothing else they can do. They can't vote, they can't charge their husbands with crimes. I'm Preet Bharara and this week Harvard historian Jill Lepore joins me to discuss her new book on the U.S. constitution and the movements that shaped it in ways we've forgotten.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

The episode is out now.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Search and follow. Stay tuned with Preet wherever you get your podcast.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

President Trump said many wild things this year, but one of the wildest was on Pod Force One where he talked about this multi day aptitude test he took at the age of like 11 or 12.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

They said, you Son is brilliant at music. He'd be an incredible musician. Alas, this is not what my father wanted to hear.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Right out of college, Trump tried producing Broadway shows. And he has taste. You can argue about whether it's good taste, but Trump loves music and movies and architecture. Lol. And he's been using his time in office to shape popular culture. The culture was already moving. Right. It was embracing the trads and the Chads. And so in the waning days of 2025, we're looking at how the counterculture, long the province of lefties and hippies, moved swiftly and sharply. Right. And we're going to ask if it'll ever move back today. Explain. Drops every weekday.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

You spoke very eloquently after your divorce with Tim Burton about. You said, with divorce, you go through massive grief and it's a death of a relationship. So utterly bewildering. And your identity, everything changes. And in your case, you had a creative partnership as well as a romantic. And I. I wondered when you emerged from. From that, did you find you were different in your friendships?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

That's an interesting question. What do you mean by different in my friendships or. Well, rather than love relationships, having gone.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Through such a kind of huge thing, whether you. You treated your friendships differently or you were. You kind of noticed that you were. You wanted something different and gave something different, or whether that affected them.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

That's an interesting question. I hadn't really thought of that. I mean, I think I was incredibly grateful for my friendships. I think maybe my. My appreciation of them got bigger because they survived and supported me through this huge sea change also. Very much so for my children, because that's the. You rely on your. Well, I think when you go through a divorce. Well, I did anyway. You rely on your other people around you to help carry the family. I felt like I had to almost hitchhike on other people's families to where I was, you know, feeling like mine was falling apart. And a divorce is truly in a family that's close as ours was transformative to everybody. Having said that, if you don't fit each other, it takes a lot of bravery, but it's better to move.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Then stop each other from growing.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

I really believe that, too.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Yeah. I mean, we're not meant to be forever. And I. I've never actually gotten married because I can't say those. I can't. I can't honestly make that promise because I just don't think it's a healthy one.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

So you were never actually married?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

No.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Interesting. Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

No. Not interested Quite apart from also, you know, I've got adhd, so the idea of organizing, I mean, it would be both be a great thing, but I'd be so flipping obsessive about every single choice and, you know, be just like, oh, my God.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Because people are quite obsessed with what you wear and as if your clothes are a kind of code they're trying to crack.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

So I think caffeine. Yeah.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

And you're quite tantalizing with what you choose to reveal or hide. And I know you're a private person, but do you enjoy some of the playing? I.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Honestly, Bella, I'm not even aware of playing or what I'm revealing or not. I'm the. There's only one way of surviving being in this business of is don't ever engage or look at what your. Online. It's only online now, but it used to be in the press, whatever that identity is.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

It's like that is a different. It's an entity out there and it will. It's the sum total of what people want you to be, but it might have very little to do with oneself. Otherwise there lies madness. If you go like, oh, I could just, you know, this is what, you know, whatever. As long as I have continued to just not give a. Frankly, that is the important bit of playing, you know, and as we all know, if you're trying to create something, you've got to not give a. Because you can get tied up with, oh, this isn't good enough, or that isn't good enough, whatever. And it's like, oh, let it all go, go. And in that moment when there's a real failure, then things can happen. It reminded me of a thing I remember once with Mum, who I have learned a shed load off, but we were on holiday when we were kids and she was wearing this white silk, you know, blouse, and we were eating spaghetti and we got a bit of Bolognese on it and then she said, it doesn't matter, why do we put more? And we ended up flicking Bolognese. So it was spotted with Bolognese and it was just like, that's it. And then I love this phrase that I read, which is, if you stumble, make it part of the dance. And that's it. Just like, oh, what does it matter at the end. And I loved just flicking. It was so fun. Me and my brothers were just flicking Bolognese all over Mum's silk. So it was sort of dotty, which, I mean, she's always, like, rocked the spots and dots.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

That is genius. And if you fancy someone, don't like something they're wearing, does it kill your attraction?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

No, I think if I fancy someone it's going to be about an energetic sex. You know, the sexiness doesn't begin with what they're wearing. It's more to do with what they're wearing on the inside, isn't it? It's like the energy does it with you.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Well, as you're saying that, I'm thinking what if their energies manifesting in this hideous garment, then you don't fancy them.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Whatever they're wearing, it's going to be. You can't change what they look like. I mean, you know, it might be more to do with do I need to have a relationship with that person or do I need to. You know, that would be like a. No, but it, you know, I don't think it's going to stop you fancying.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

I suppose it's if it can be off putting. There's bad clothes and there's clothes that indicate something that you need to. That you're pretending not to notice. But you know.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Oh yeah. I mean I've got somebody as a. It's just zoomed in my. He's completely narcissistic, incredibly sexy, but just like. But no, I mean it is. I don't think it would stop me. Yeah, it tells you a lot about the person but it wouldn't stop me wanting to, you know, if you fancy them, you're gonna fancy them.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

You might be off put that. You might go like, no, I don't wanna like. It'd be the same as them saying something really crass.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Well, that would be just dreadful. The clothes.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Oh, good morning.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah, yeah, good morning.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

No, a good warning. Good morning. No, it's goodbye.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

And your, your character, Bellatrix Lestrange in Harry Potter is. It's like your innocent angenue side revealing a dark side. Because even when you were playing the drug addicted doctor in Miami Vice, you were just so pure.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

I was not exactly well cast, put it that way.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

It was so sweet and matter of fact. And who are you channeling to be the feared and adored role that's so popular?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Bellatrix. I remember thinking like, oh, she's a real sociopath. How am I going to do this? I'm not a natural sociopath. Lovely. I think I remember thinking of little boys when they get rid of insects and they get really like. It's that sort of. They're pre social, you know, they're about age 3 or 4 and they really love exterminating Insects. It's that sort of prime. I just thought she's not grown up, she's very arrested.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

That's so interesting.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

And I also thought. And I kind of know that with kids they like watching other kids and if you. You're playing a baddie, if they are childish they enjoy that.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

So. And I've got a natural. You know I like being. Being young for me is very easy inside and my granny was like that and my mum. We've all got a healthy inner child. It's so healthy. It's more outer than anything. There's nothing in her about it. It's permission to play, you know. So.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

But then over it now I'm having like an unlikely. And I seem to remember I was trying to justify why Bellatrix would have gone to the dark side and I think. But I don't think it's really worth taking seriously. But I think I made a link to Unity Mitford. It's partially because my cousin was buried who wrote a biography of her this week. David Price Jones. But he'd written a biography and I thought if you're one of many sisters there is something about how a need to distinguish yourself particularly if you're not the brightest, if you're not the most beautiful. How do you make yourself outstanding in a. In a family of so many sisters? And that maybe it was that it's right. I'm going to define myself by going off and becoming, you know, Hitler's mistress.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

And that need to be adored by all the of a leader, you know, it's a lack of confidence.

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[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

One of the things I loved so much, one of your very short film that you made, the Prada film for the Therapy, directed by Roman Polanski with Sir Ben Kingsley, who plays a Freudian analyst. And while you're chatting away about your daddy issue on the sofa, he spies your coat, your fur coat on the hanger and becomes ecstatically transfixed by it. It's just a masterpiece. And how did you come to play? How did you get that role?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

How did I get that role? I mean, it's always the best ones. You just get off. I mean I just. It was a bit of a no brainer. Polanski said, would you play this part? So I was so excited because I had all the lines and I was with Tim at the time. We went to Paris and stayed at the Ritz. It was a really fun weekend. And he knew Polanski. In fact, Polanski was around when we were first getting together. Yeah, and, and he just took one look. I took ages because there's a hell of a lot of lines, you know, weeks to learn it. And he looked at it just the night before and he said, ah, it's going to be on Ben's face. I said, and true. It was me blabbing on the background. He said, you're fine, it's going to be on Ben's face. Sir Ben. And, and, and the coat. Because it's a commercial for project. Yeah, but it was fun to do as Polanski. I mean in Paris you had Sir.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Ben, the whole of his team, I mean you had the, the music writer, the. It was a mini film set designer who I met once, I'm trying to remember his name. He was a complete genius. Everyone was a genius. And God, it was just, and it.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Was a one day job. How that's a no brainer.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah, it's like, it's so good. Oh, it's just I regularly watch it. It's just one of the funny story pieces. It's so good. And, and you come from a long line of liberal politicians, aristocratic liberal politicians. And your great grandfather was Asquith, the Prime Minister of Britain in the early 20th, 20th century. And in your new series, the Seven, the Agatha Christie, you play Lady Caterham who's quite a complex figure. And I wondered if there was someone in your family that you would thinking about and how did you develop her kinks?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

She was Pretty well drawn. Chris Chibnall wrote her and it's. She was very precisely drawn. Actually, no, there was more to it. First of all, what's interesting about this is that it's not. It's adapted from Agatha Christie's Seven Dials, but my character doesn't actually exist in the. In the novel.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Oh, really?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

No. So what is clever about what Chris did is, well, one, it's great because people could read the book and go, oh no, you did it. Because it's different. The essence of it is in the adaptation. But he made. In the original novel it was Lord Caterham made it middle Woman. And in fact, it's much more interesting with Bundle, who's the lead. I'm a mum and it's. So it's a mother daughter relationship. And then added to which, I got obsessed with Agatha Christie when I was. Before I was doing this and watched Lucy Worsley's series and biography and she's really fascinating and I think a great woman in herself. And I sort of felt that Chris had not necessarily consciously, but put a lot of Agatha Christie in the character in Lady Caterham and a lot about grief and the impact of grief. And Lady Caterham lost her son in the somme.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

So 10 years before the story takes place and she's lost her husband in the Spanish flu. So in a way with her, she's completely governed by the people who are absent, like her son and her husband. And it's more about the fact that she's stuck in 1915, she's not moved on. It's a sort of Havisham clock stopped and she's not mourned or she's not gotten over their loss. And I think it was only when I was doing it that I thought, oh my God, of course I had to bury my son. There's a flashback. And then I did think of the fact that my great uncle did die at the Somme, after whom my father was named Raymond, after whom my son is named. And it was like a strange feeling as I went into the chapel to bury to this young man was playing. The corpse actually was on his phone. Can you believe it? Like, everyone was on their phone. Even the corpse was on the phone. It was like I was going, oh God, I'm getting a Reich. Right? Like, why is everyone on their phone? There's no chat anymore. Anyway, he was texting in his coffin. And I thought. But at the same time I had this, Ah, my ancestral baggage here is here. Because it's Raymond. Raymond, of course, he died in the song. And there was a lot of. No recovery in the family from his death.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

You know, so I don't know. You can analyze and you can also, but it's. It's kind of. Sometimes you find yourself doing things you don't quite know why. And then halfway through you go, well, of course I'm doing it because. Because of duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, you know, and it all makes sense. And I do think we carry our ancestors and where we've come from, and they're only just here.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

And they seem to appear at strange times. I mean, I don't really think about it, but then suddenly someone who never think about seems to be influencing something or other. I mean, it sounds a bit far fetched, but why not?

[Helena Bonham Carter]

It's not far fetched, Bella. And it's our privilege. It makes us less lonely.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah. It's a really.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

And less alone.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Good reminder. Yeah.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

And that while we're here, the bodies are here. They can come through. And even if it's just in the fact that we've been, you know, handed this package of DNA, there's certain things that we can do here while we're here.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Yeah. That's so important, isn't it? Well, thank you so much, Helena Bonham Carter, for being. I well fashioned your roses. So fun.

[Helena Bonham Carter]

Really fun. I can have a smooth.

[Interviewer (likely Bella Freud)]

Sa.