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- [00:00]
Podcast Host (Ad Read)
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- [01:02]
Lauren Sherman
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Earn points on rent and around your neighborhood, wherever you call home, by going to joinbilt.com fashion that's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com fashion make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of PUX Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show is Stephen Kolb, CEO of the Council of Fashion Designers of America. We chat about his near 20 year tenure running the organization, how the fashion industry has transformed over those two decades, and what to expect at Monday night CFDA Awards. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world and much more. If you're interested listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go to Puck News slash Fashion People to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday everyone and Happy Halloween. I guess I have I am not a Halloween person. I wasn't even really a Halloween person as a child. I do not like costumes. I don't like putting on thick makeup. Candy is great, but really I'd prefer Thanksgiving or Christmas anytime. Luckily my kid is not old enough to beg me to dress up, so I will be trick or treating tonight in a barber jacket. I probably. I mean it's been kind of hot in la. Usually by that time it is cold enough. I maybe just a sweatshirt, who knows. But no costumes for me. Just just hanging out with Lego Batman and his buddies. In other news, it's been a big week at Line Sheet. I have some more on the Armani succession and acquisition success saga. Lots of caring tidbits this week, lots going on at that business. It's really fun to watch unfold. I also have a note about Lululemon founder Chip Wilson's open letter to the board, basically saying that they're doing a bad job and as an owner of almost 9% of the company, he wants them to get their act together. Anyway, it's giving activist investor vibes and I am here for it. I am enjoying this this as well. I'll be in New York next week for the CFDA Awards, but also a Puck private dinner on Thursday and I plan to see many of you. I am excited for that and also excited to chill out this weekend because oh actually it's lacma Gucci so I'm going to that and my good friend Hannah's 40th birthday. So okay, maybe it's not. I'm not going to chill out too much, but I did end an epic run of going out in Los Angeles, which I don't do as much as I do in other cities and I'm really tired. I canceled my dinner on Thursday night. Tina and Hillary, thank you for understanding. The best thing to do in LA is to Cancel. But really there was just a lot of stuff going on that I felt like I had to go to because the people are important to me and the events were important. Some highlights from the week were I went to this fun Canali dinner on Wednesday night and I sat next to Carolyn Dejon who I had met before but we really bonded over our love of Kate Young and there were a lot of nicely dressed men there. So that was, that was fun. Stephano Canali was in town and he reminded me that they are independently owned and have been for the whole of the business. He's a third generation leader, so good for them. There is a path forward, people. Otherwise I had lunch and dinner at Cuckoo which needs to fix its valet situation but otherwise is a real delight. I, I enjoyed it. Just park on the street. I that's what I did for the lunch after the dinner. But thanks to ALC's Adrienne Lieberman and Justine Loop who you may know from nobody wants this and Succession for having me at dinner on Tuesday night. We had a really good time. It was such a great group. Emily and Merritt from the great were there, my buds Rebecca and Ally and it was just like a really nice mix. And then on Wednesday for lunch, Ricky de Soleil hosted Le Mon Barrel. They Lily Atherton Hanbury came out from UK and Paris where she kind of like, I don't know where she actually lives, I think she lives in the UK but she's, she's around the continent to celebrate that brand and that was also really great. I like Lily so much and I love what they've built over the last 10 years. One thing I will say, it kind of blows to go out in Los Angeles because it tends to feel a little provincial. No offense, but you just see all the same people like you sit down at dinner, you're like what's up guys? And if it's your good friends, fine. It's sort of like planning around a dinner anyway. But the reality is it can get really boring and I think all the dinners I went to this week were with mix of people who I otherwise, you know, don't spend a lot of time with. And a lot of people from Europe, which was super fun too after I had just seen all of them in Milan and Paris. But both of ALC and Lamond Barrel did an excellent job of mixing it up and I made some new friends. Anyway, I will see you next week in New York and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Steve Stephen, who I've known for most of my adult Life. Stephen Kolb, welcome to Fashion People.
- [07:54]
Stephen Kolb
Thank you, Bauren.
- [07:55]
Lauren Sherman
So what did you have for breakfast this morning?
- [07:58]
Stephen Kolb
What did I have for breakfast this morning? Okay, good. I had green juice. That homemade green juice, vegetables in a blender. I had some yogurt and blueberries, and then I had a soy milk latte with one pump mocha, one pump caramel.
- [08:13]
Lauren Sherman
That is so specific. I love it.
- [08:15]
Stephen Kolb
Yeah, it's pretty much my breakfast in the morning.
- [08:18]
Lauren Sherman
Wow, you're so healthy.
- [08:20]
Stephen Kolb
Yeah. But it's also coming off a weekend where I was at my nephew's wedding and I wasn't so healthy eating a lot of food, so.
- [08:27]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, that's so fun. So you're in the offices of KCD right now, the famous PR agency, and you are doing the seating for the CFDA Awards, which are next week. That's very exciting.
- [08:40]
Stephen Kolb
Yeah. Favorite part of the CFA Awards at the seating. It's. Well, I'm sure you've done seating over the years of your career, or I've seen seating happening. It's really complex because you have so many competing interests of real estate. So you have, of course, the nominees and the honorees, and then you have the moneyed sponsors, and then you have the CFD members and celebrities and who doesn't like who. And we've made some mistakes over the years, but this year, I think we're off to a good start.
- [09:14]
Lauren Sherman
You know, I have not done a ton of seating, but I. Because we do a lot of these dinners, I have started to. And there was one dinner where I sat two people next to each other that should not have been seated next to each other. And afterwards, all these other people were like, you need to call and apologize.
- [09:32]
Stephen Kolb
That happened last year, CFDA Awards. We thought they worked together and would be good seatmates. But in the middle of the event, as we come from cocktail down, when the folks realized they weren't together, we had to make a quick change. But like any event, you always have emergency seating to fix things like that.
- [09:57]
Lauren Sherman
Well, I have to say, the last couple years, I've had really great seats. I sat with Cynthia Rowley last year, who was awesome. And then the year before, Maria Cornejo. So it was both of them. I mean, I know Maria really well, but Cynthia I had not talked to in a long time, and it was really fun. And it's always nice to make a new friend.
- [10:17]
Stephen Kolb
Yeah. And Cynthia, as you know, is receiving at a CFD award this year, and she's a really good example of how we tried to create representation generational representation on stage. She's somebody that's been around for a while. An unsung, recognized talent designer, CFDA member. So when I called her to tell her that she was getting the award, she was like, upstate New York somewhere in a parking lot doing a photo shoot. And I totally caught her off guard. And she, like, often when I make a phone call to tell someone news, like, they just start crying. And she was just like, you're making it up. And so it's going to be a really special night for her to be honored at the CFDA Awards this year.
- [11:05]
Lauren Sherman
That's awesome. Well, the idea of resilience in this industry is so important and figuring out how to make it through in your own way. And she's a great example of that. So looking forward to hearing, seeing whatever you all have cooked up for her. So what number CFDA Awards is this for you? Because you've been there for a long time now.
- [11:27]
Stephen Kolb
Yeah. So I think my CFDA anniversary is in January. It's my 20th anniversary.
- [11:34]
Lauren Sherman
Wow.
- [11:35]
Stephen Kolb
And so I guess this makes 19 for me. CFDI Awards. So it's been fun. It's a fun event always. It's, of course, you know, it's a big fundraiser, so there's a lot of business behind it in terms of just making sure that we're budget conscious and we're raising the money that, that the event deserves. And it's been interesting because the first 13 years was with Diane as our board chair and then three years with Tom, one of those being a Covid virtual year, Tom Ford being Tom, and now in the third year with Tom, but an H, Tom Brown. So you've seen the personality of each of them in the event, the production of the event. We don't have a committee or volunteers involved. It's really the CFDA team, kcd, our current producer, Nyan Fish. And then the chair's kind of vision, you know, Diane was eclectic in color and mismatched plates and fluffy pillows. Tom Ford was kind of pared back a little bit. We were at the pool and the grill when we came back live. So just more of that low key New York sophistication. And then Tom Brown, kind of quirky. We're back in the Museum of Natural History, which surprised me when we went there the first year and had champagne and cocktails in that big hall of Elephants. How many fashion people have never been in that museum? And then, you know, there's the whale in the big area where you eat and where we do the show. And so there's a lot of fun in that space. And very much Tom's brand, the Museum of Natural History.
- [13:23]
Lauren Sherman
It's true and it is. It's such a New York institution and it feels really special to go there. It doesn't feel like a conference room or anything. It feels like a really special night to be sitting under that big whale. Didn't they do like on the chicken pot pie, like a little whale once or fish or something?
- [13:42]
Stephen Kolb
Well, first year we did a whale. Yeah. Last year we did a dinosaur. And I will not give you a scoop on what this year I can tell you we're having chicken pot pie. That much I will confirm. We are moving into another animal. Although Tom did suggest, and I told him in his last year, or we agreed in his last year he could do this. He wanted Hector as the animal, of course. Tom Stodson, Hector as the animal. Let's just stick with kind of animals within the Museum of Natural History. But maybe in your last year, we can honor you with Hector Pot pie.
- [14:22]
Lauren Sherman
I love that idea. Okay, can we really briefly talk about why fashion people love pot pie? Because I sat down years ago at a. Maybe it was the CFDA Fashion Fund, and there was a pot pie. And I think I was sitting next to a deputy of Anna Wintour's. I won't reveal who, but they said, oh, you don't know about Anna's thing with pot pie. Cause she likes it. Because it's just one course and then you're done.
- [14:48]
Stephen Kolb
Yeah, I think that's where Tom and we get the idea from and carried it forward. Its intention is to move the night along. It can be a long night. Both Tom and I are of the school that, okay, it's one night. Settle in and just enjoy yourself. We don't always have to rush home and be in bed by 11 o'. Clock. So if we're taking one night of the year to celebrate the industry and our colleagues and peers, it's okay to be out a little bit late. But the pot pie does help with service. And look, to be honest, Tom and I have discussed times like, why do we have to have food at all? And it's like, well, some people come for the event itself and they don't eat. You know, people pay a lot of money to come to the event. They. Some people are coming and they're buying dinner. So, yeah, we have. We have to have food. So it's a nice balance. It moves us forward. It feeds people.
- [15:41]
Lauren Sherman
You have to have food. You have to get people to stay. You Always do like a fun performance or something near the end. And it keeps it. It keeps it going. Okay, enough about the pot pie. Even though we could talk forever. So you, you've been there for almost 20 years. Let's talk a little bit about your. What you were doing before and how it connected to the fashion industry and to the CFD in particular, and what your experience has been like. 20 years is a long time to be in a gig, especially in this era.
- [16:12]
Stephen Kolb
Yeah, I think my goal lies one year more than the longest serving director or person before me. So definitely.
- [16:22]
Lauren Sherman
Are you going to hit it?
- [16:23]
Stephen Kolb
Oh, yeah. I definitely surpassed that. I think it would have been Fern. I'm not quite sure how many years Fermal as executive director. But my path to CFDA was unexpected. My background had been is not for profit. So I was a fundraiser, volunteer recruiter, manager, working for the American Cancer Society originally. And then I moved to New York in the late 80s and, and worked for an organization called DIFL, which is the Design Industries foundation, fighting AIDS, doing all of that fundraising events, grant making. And through that I met my colleague, still colleague, Lisa Smiler, because CFDA and DIFA had done a event together under the direction of Maggie Reiser, the model. Her dad had died of aids and so it was a joint fundraiser. So when the CFDA was looking for someone, Lisa suggested that the recruiter, which was Karen Hardy at the time, shout.
- [17:28]
Lauren Sherman
Out to Karen Harvey.
- [17:30]
Stephen Kolb
Yeah, yeah. She reminds me every time I see her that she helped me get to a cfda. Lisa suggested me. I was probably the last candidate they interviewed. It was a committee. It was Diane, it was Stan at the time, Stan Herman. What I feel was my distinction and how they landed on me was that I wasn't a fashion person. I knew Ralph Donna, Calvin Francis Schooler. Huh? What's that? And because CFDA is a not for profit, I was able to bring my not for profit experience and approach to the organization. Before that, Peter Arnold, my immediate predecessor, was predecessor. Now person before me was.
- [18:19]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
- [18:21]
Stephen Kolb
I didn't know like a successor would be the person after you. So Peter was a lawyer and he did a good job for. Did a good job. But I definitely brought a different approach. And we were a small little kind of okay, funded organization. But then over the course of many years, we were able to build that up just through a not for profit business lens versus a fashion director or buyer or fashion PR person taking that position.
- [18:50]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, it felt like you made it into a fundraising machine and created an endowment and all that stuff that didn't exist prior. I mean, I only started covering the industry right around the time you got there. So I. I, obviously, I know Fern, but I didn't. I didn't know Stan or. Or those folks well. But it became, like, really felt like a really professional organization. What would you say? Like, through the years, I've written so many stories about the CFDA and the American fashion industry. What would you say when you got there? Because, like, the organization, it's a trade organization. The designers pay dues, they're asked to apply, they're invited to apply. You all approve. Who gets in, who doesn't. But what would you say the sort of objective of the CFDA was and what the members expected of it versus what you've transformed it into over 20 years?
- [19:48]
Stephen Kolb
Yeah, it's a good question. We were started as a trade organization. So ultimately, a trade organization is focused on the business of the members. And uniquely, we are a membership organization where you had to and you still have to apply to be part of the organization. But in those early years and even before I started and when I started, remember, Diane also started her chairmanship leading the board. But in those early years, I think it probably still had more of what Eleanor Lambert, our founder, had saw as the vision of CFD was arts and culture as the baseline of the work we do. How do we promote American fashion culturally as art, and very little about how do you translate that art and culture into business, Practical, tangible business, even though we were a trade organization. And then in the 80s, the early 80s, is when we created a second organization, which is our philanthropy, our foundation. And that came because of how HIV and AIDS was hitting our industry, or also at the same time, Ralph Lauren, because a friend of his, a journalist, Nina Hyde, had died from breast cancer. We started doing fashion talk of breast cancer. So you had this pivotal moment where we began to kind of do events, raise money, and give grants to organizations in service. But with Diane, she kind of really with me was like, well, you know, what's the value of being a member? Sure. And this is true, and we emphasize this a lot. The honor of becoming a member is first and foremost the biggest value of being part of the cfd. And people should wear that and wave that flag very, very proudly. But we started then looking at who are some businesses in the industry, whether they be suppliers, technology companies, the retailers, how can we involve them more? So what they do aligns with what the designers need in terms of help or building those relationships. And that's when it really Got more service focused. And that came with a lot of positive, but it also created some negative too, to be honest with you.
- [22:24]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. So let's. The interesting thing to me about this organization is how much people, I guess because they're paying, designers are paying money, they're paying dues to be involved. They expect so much of you, and there's only so much you can do, and there's only so much you can help shape what happens in the industry. I think you all do a lot, but they do expect a lot of you. What are some of the expectations and what are some of the things you feel like you all have really been able to deliver on as the years have gone on and the industry has changed so much since you started?
- [23:03]
Stephen Kolb
It's a great question, and you're absolutely right. As we created more services and more support, often that support or service wasn't for everyone. It could be limited. And so people felt left out. Or even as we did more programs, more prizes as we strengthened to see if they vogue Fashion Bond or had our incubator or any of the young talent programs we have now, only a handful of people can benefit from that. So other people felt left out or not prioritized. And that has been a challenge. Or even the CFDA Awards, people want that award, they want to be nominated. And ultimately, I'm not making that decision. The industry's making that, that, that decision. So. So as we grew and as we helped more, the people who didn't feel as they were getting that had a little bit, bit of resentment. So what we've just gone through, and I think this is something we haven't really talked about a lot. I call it membership 2.0. It's kind of a recalibration of our membership. And this is really Tom Brown's vision. We went out to every single member over the last year and we said to them what I just said earlier, the value of being a membership is that you are a member first and foremost. If you can believe that and own that, then you should be part of the organization. But if you have expectation for something more, then you have to really think, is the CFG right for you?
- [24:37]
Lauren Sherman
If you.
- [24:37]
Stephen Kolb
And also it's about, if we're in service to you, what is it that you bring back to the cfda? Something as simple as nominating and voting for the CFDA Awards. If you want to be a part of the organization and you want to have a voice, you have to participate in things. And that's been very, very telling. In fact, very kind of rewarding to see how members have reconnected to that core idea of what it is to to be part of the organization. But generally, there's so much that the CFDA does that can support our industry. I think what Mark and Aldo and the editorial team do around storytelling and communication is significant. We have a very large following on social media. We're like 1.3 million Instagram followers. If you compare that to the other fashion capitals, whether it's their Fashion Week account or their organization account, we're way more on people interested and also just through the storytelling we do through CFD.com, which we just launched. And so you can be Rebecca Moses and you want to talk about a book that you released six years ago, cfd.com is your outlet. We'll never say no to a CFD member wanting to do a story, and we'll always tell that in a way that celebrates and supports them. So the visibility that a designer can get through just accessing the kind of output that we have is real valuable.
- [26:18]
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- [26:50]
Lauren Sherman
How much of your work is like managing the Fashion Week? The idea of Fashion Week and making sure everyone who wants to show up Fashion Week or wants to be involved in Fashion Week can be because the thing you and have discussed this previously in Europe, these organizations have direct relationships with the government in a way that does not exist in America. For multiple reasons.
- [27:16]
Podcast Host (Ad Read)
A lot.
- [27:16]
Lauren Sherman
Some of them are like, basically part of the government. So like setting up Fashion Week and being a part of setting up Fashion Week is. That is easier for them in some ways for you. You're dealing with like a lot of different types of people and you only have so much you can do in the nonprofit organization that exists. Do you feel like a lot of your work is sort of ushering people through Fashion Week, from the tiniest little brands to the biggest to the sponsors to the venues, all of that stuff? Because that must be like a lot of work that is kind of not seen by people because it's probably just answering calls.
- [28:01]
Stephen Kolb
I often Tell people have an opinion about Fashion Week and how it is scheduled and the logistics of it. I'm happy to give you the keys to the car and just drive it one Fashion Week and then tell me your ideas. It is a pillar of our work that we will never shy away from, and we are so committed to it, but it's also one of the most visible things, so people will speculate or tell stories. You thought you reported that in February we are getting rid of Fashion Week.
- [28:36]
Lauren Sherman
I heard it. I. I said I heard that that was possible.
- [28:39]
Stephen Kolb
I know.
- [28:39]
Lauren Sherman
And then I said that it wasn't that you all said it wasn't true.
- [28:43]
Stephen Kolb
I 100% confirmed there will be a February Fashion Week, and. But I agree with you. Glad to hear it. February is a pretty grim and gloomy Fashion Week. It's snowy, it's rainy, it's cold. People are still, like, recovering from hol. But we think New York Fashion Week, culturally and for the business of the designers who choose to use it as a platform is so important. And what we've done is a couple things. With Diane, we bought the fashion calendar from Ruth Findlay. We took what was anybody any time could show to a more curated application process.
- [29:20]
Lauren Sherman
Remember when you had to pay for the fashion calendar?
- [29:23]
Stephen Kolb
Yes.
- [29:24]
Lauren Sherman
I remember Ruth Finley calling me, being like, quit posting all the things that are happening on the fashion calendar because people need to pay for it. Now you can just go on CFDA.com and see the fashion calendar.
- [29:36]
Stephen Kolb
Ruth was a legend, and it was time for her to let that go. And I'm glad that she trusted CFDA to take what was really a child to her moving that forward. And so that was something that Diane felt we should do. All the other fashion organizations in Europe scheduled their Fashion Week, so why wasn't cfd? And then you had the Tom Ford error. Fashion Week's too long. We went from seven nights and seven days to five days, five nights. That was hard. But also important that it was important that we did that. It shrunk down the number of spots. So that made our work a little bit harder in terms of who can get on the calendar. And then with Tom Brown, I mean, Tom's mantra is creativity. You know, he really wants us to ensure that we see the creative voice in Fashion Week, and we've done a good job on that. I think there's no other Fashion Week that has the mix of established brands with emerging talent and also a sprinkling of international because of just the gateway that New York is to the United States market. Right. And so that is underseen sometimes because we are young and we are also considered commercial and often not known to be creative. And then you take the logistical stuff, which you were asking me earlier, and you've probably seen some of this. You've been on the Google shopping shuttle, I hope, if not, you know, in New York.
- [31:12]
Lauren Sherman
Stephen, I don't need the Google shopping shuttle.
- [31:15]
Stephen Kolb
Okay.
- [31:16]
Lauren Sherman
I use it in Milan, the Milan version of that, a lot.
- [31:19]
Stephen Kolb
You're taking the Milan convert. Have you taken the Paris version?
- [31:22]
Lauren Sherman
Years ago, Yeah. I take the metro in Paris, I don't think. And that's the thing. I like taking the subway in New York.
- [31:28]
Stephen Kolb
So we've done a good job in listening. And transportation has been an issue when a guy was just in Paris going to shows and the traffic there was so bad. And I thought to myself, anybody who's complaining about New York, that travel.
- [31:42]
Lauren Sherman
I agree.
- [31:42]
Stephen Kolb
You agree, but that's just the nature of when a city has a lot of events happening in a lot of places. And I think we've been really, as best we can. We only have so much control. We don't love Brooklyn shows. We like to try to keep things within a radius in Manhattan. And I think we've done, done a good job of that. And the best thing that has happened, and you've written about this, and I'm sure you've had an opinion, was the retreat WME from the Fashion Week space. Right. Because then we could rightfully own the throne of what Fashion Week is. Because that confusion of what WME does versus what CFDA does was a challenge for people. As clear as it was to me, it wasn't to a lot of other people. And so really right now, that authoritative voice on Fashion Week is really the CFDA voice.
- [32:39]
Lauren Sherman
And I think what has changed the most is it's obviously extremely commercial. But on that point, like, these are not things to try to make a ton of money off of if you're an organization putting it together. And I think a nonprofit like the CFDA is better positioned to sort of just figure out how's this gonna lift the industry up, where a wme, they have to be really focused on like, sponsorship and making sure that they make money off of something. And so from my perspective, it makes more sense to have like a trade adjacent organization like yours managing it. Because if you want to make. Try to make money off this stuff, sure, fine. But like, that's not what this is about.
- [33:21]
Stephen Kolb
Yeah. I mean, our P and L, if you look at a P and L for A Fashion Week is, is the success that the individual designers have or the story that is defining New York. We're not looking at a, at a bottom line number with Fashion Week. Obviously the money we spend on Fashion Week is all covered by sponsors as well too. But it's a different type of investment. So the equity for us is the success for the designer, not what that P and L is going to report. And it's a it. Fashion Week doesn't have the level of sponsorship that it did when I started. Like when I started and you went to a fashion show, there was a lot of sponsors in every. I made the mistake of telling my mother at the time that there were gift bags and my mother was like the queen of gift bags. And so I went to these fashion shows and I'm like new in fashion and I'm like caring around all this like makeup and shampoo and conditioner because my mother wanted it and I was a good son to my father. But you don't see that anymore, right? No, it's like really moved away from it. And for us, what we've really focused on is. And then again, Tom's idea, Tom Brown's idea. This past September was the second year that we were able to stream the shows live at Rockefeller Center. So every single show was either streamed live or taped to air in the iconic channel garden and ice rink at Rockefeller Center. And that's kind of been our focus is to take this creativity that is open to a few and bring it to a public space versus bringing public into a space. And I think that kind of sponsor engagement works better in the model of Fashion Week than getting sponsors integrated into shows directly. And the other thing that, that we did this past year and have going into next season with Google, there's so many Google departments and budgets, but Google and around adaptability, we've been able to bring some money into shows that not translate as just dollars to create a show or produce a show, but actually impact designers creative thinking. So with Google and adaptability, we're giving money to designers so they're actually creating within their collection things that are more accessible for those that have more of a challenge. So that is kind of changing the conversation about design but also helping them further their collections.
- [35:59]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, that makes sense. I feel like you can't just have, you can't just slap on like you were saying, a shampoo brand onto the stuff anymore. It has to have.
- [36:08]
Stephen Kolb
No, not anymore.
- [36:10]
Lauren Sherman
Because it's so consumer facing too in a, in an interesting way because it's all online.
- [36:17]
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- [37:22]
Lauren Sherman
So let's zoom out because we're talking about Fashion Week, but just you talking about the Bryant park tents from 2006 up till now, where there are no tents anywhere, and thinking about what the American fashion landscape was like. That was the start of the CFJ Vogue Fashion Fund. There were all these young designers who were, you know, now Jack and Lazaro, formerly of Proenza Schooler designing Loewe. At the time we thought Alex Wang soon went to be the designer at Balenciaga. Like American fashion was all of the sort of Marc Jacobs and Michael Kors and all those guys had gone to Europe and were running houses there and it just felt like American fashion was like the launch pad for the European brands and a launchpad for European luxury. But that has changed so much. The industry has transformed a million times since then. What was the business like then versus now? Because like your your membership roster reflects that that like what is fashion in America is very different than it was when you started. What have you observed?
- [38:36]
Stephen Kolb
Well, I was lucky because I started in January 2006 and I actually just wrote something on my sub stack about Arnold Scazi and you know, I met Ole Cassini, Arnold Scsi, I knew Oscar de la Renta and that was kind of this golden age of fashion that still existed but maybe it was coming to an end. And at the same time you saw this focus on Investing in new talent. And a lot of that had to do with 911 happening during fashion Week. Young designers not being able to show their collections, exposing their vulnerability, and the industry responding to that. Like, we have to hold these young designers up if they are going to be this new generation of designers. And we did that. And to your point, Jack and Lazaro, first ever winners through Pronza Schooler of the Cienta Vogue Fashion Fund, now historically creative directors of Loewe, which was a really special show to be at and to see that and to feel that pride. But over the years, you have programs that support designers and you're always bringing new people into the system, right? Often we are, what's next? What's next? What's next? And I think that's good. And it has defined a generation of American talent and I'm very proud of that. But at the same time, businesses don't always survive, right? And we've seen brands change or go out of business. But what I think what we still represent is opportunity. I don't think there's another city in the world where a young designer can stake their claim. I've shared this story before. When Joseph Altazara was starting, he could have started in London, Milan, Paris, and his mom at the time was working with him. And she told me they picked New York specifically because they saw the opportunity, but they also saw the service and the support that young designers were getting. And I think it's just a good example. And so there is a lot of opportunity. And I think in my 20 years, what I feel has shifted as I've understood how people feel about being designers or being American designers. We've settled into feeling comfortable who we are. And the insecurity being compared to. To these kind of heritage brands in Europe has kind of gone away a lot. And we've also dominated and have proven in so many ways that we are unique. There's no designer elsewhere that has the kind of voice, politically or socially, that an American designer has. And I'm incredibly floored every time Willie does a show. And I know Willie was New York Fashion Week banner show. And it's now to go to Paris and to take that American voice there and actually be one of the desired shows to be at, I think is kind of reflective of the current state of American fashion. And also think about the current nominees for the CFDA Awards. If you look at that, I think as I've been processing and imagining what people are going to ask me about this year's awards, right? And I Look at the nominees. You have Rachel Scott in the same category with Ralph Lauren. That is crazy, right? Rachel's so new. She's only won Emerging Talent three years ago or two years ago. She won women's last year, and now she's competing with Ralph Lauren. And obviously Tory Burch is there as well. So there is this generational mix that is reflective of all the hard work that the industry has done, not just cfda, to make sure marginalized voices have opportunity, that young brands have that entrepreneurial opportunity. But at the same time, we know that we have these ambassadors of American fashion, these luxury brands. Michael, Tory. Okay. Coach accessible luxury that are still driving the business in a way. So that kind of. That kind of mix is what I think is American fashion. And that's how it's kind of changed over the last 20 years.
- [43:22]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I think that you hit the nail on the head where when I started covering the business, there was a dream of we want to be like, we want to have a business like Chanel or whatever. Like, everybody was like, I want to be the next Christian Dior or McQueen or to be. Or John Galliano or what have you. And something happened in the mid 2010s. I think it was the rise of direct to consumer and direct sales and having that direct relationship with the customer and also the reality of manufacturing in the US versus in Europe, all of that stuff. And I think what people started to realize was, I can't build that. Maybe if you're the ROE, you can build that, but that's going to take 50 years. Most of these people, if they want that, they have to have a lot of patience and they have to manage for what this it actually is and be realistic about what it actually is. What ended up happening was that there were brands that came out of it that do feel like 50 years from now they'll be competing against those big luxury houses. And then on top of it, the design talent, you could say all you want about the European ecosystem, which I am a huge proponent of. I think it is how these people become professionals. Look at the head of all the LVMH brands right now of creative directors Jack and Lazzaro. Michael Ryder, who. Who worked. He grew up in that system, but then came back and worked at Ralph Lauren for, I don't know, seven or eight years. There are a lot.
- [45:02]
Stephen Kolb
Daniel Roseberry.
- [45:03]
Lauren Sherman
Daniel Roseberry at Schiaparelli. Willie. There was a lot of conversation about him, potentially that he interviewed at Fendi, that type of thing. I heard that a lot from people Close to him, it remains that a lot of the people at the head of the creatives of these, Virgil obviously was at Louis Vuitton. Pharrell is at Louis Vuitton. Like, these are Americans. And so it's an interesting thing of like, I mean, you can say there's a lot of talk about the makeup of these. These houses and who designs them and all of that, but the. The point being that, like, there is a real sense of quality and craftsmanship and all of that that comes out of learning how to do it in the US and understanding how to operate and all of that. And so it's been an interesting almost full circle of. When I came in, it was like everyone was trying to make these, make their businesses into something that wasn't possible. And once they gave up on that and just tried to be true to who they were, it all sort of started to work out. And some people closed, of course, because that's what happens. But it's been an interesting trajectory.
- [46:18]
Stephen Kolb
And I think too, it's the individual, but also it's American culture. Right. How that has just continued to drive Europeans. Like, look at Demna and the influence that he's had in the work that he's done just with American culture. And one of the things that we've been working on very privately, very quietly, is this whole mess with terrorists, which is a challenge for a lot of industries, our industry, and day to day, we just don't know what is happening. And the point we've tried to make in Washington is that we are a force culturally. American fashion, what we send out to the world, whether it be organically, like street culture or design, has such influence and ranks us so high in terms of desirability and respect. And we know our president cares about respect. And when we have tariffs that hinder or limit our ability to really have businesses that are global, that impacts the respect we have as an industry. And it's a very important point in terms of the conversations that we're having beyond the economics or the financial impact it has. And so it's all kind of combined together.
- [47:41]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I mean, we could do another hour on the manufacturing and how that's changed and, and how you think it's going to all net out. Well, he.
- [47:50]
Stephen Kolb
He has said in press that, you know, he doesn't care about T shirts and socks and underwear being made. And I think a lot of it is just posturing and, and bargaining. But what I'm really excited about, Lauren, is we have a new program. We calling it the Local Production fund. Fund it. Andrew Rosen's a funder in partnership with nycedc. So what we're doing is we had a program where we put money into factories so they can buy equipment. Right. We call that the Fashion Manufacturing Institute. And so now we're putting stipends in factories. So say your area and you want to make a blazer and you want to use a New York City factory and you've never really used that factory before or you've never made a blazer in New York before. You can actually access credits within the factory that offsets your production. And we're tying it specifically to sample making and supporting New York Fashion Week. And the purpose of that is. And it's a multi season opportunity and the purpose of that is to build relationships between the designers and the production managers with the New York City factories so that they begin to trust each other and see the value of that local relationship. And also then can talk about cost and pricing. And so it's a very exciting thing that in our own way we're trying to kind of bolster manufacturing in New York City for our constituents.
- [49:25]
Lauren Sherman
Good on you, Steven. God bless. No, I think it's really, you have a really hard job and I've been with you for a lot of it and I think you have done a really good job of trying to do your best for people and also helping the industry develop. Because it has not been easy. There have been times when like all this stuff feels like it's just gonna fall apart. And somehow you've managed through and given people a lot of guidance and helped them a lot and you should be proud. It's a. I, I'm sure you did not imagine this for your life, but it's pro. I'm sure it's been a wild ride.
- [50:09]
Stephen Kolb
We recently had a board meeting and Diane was in the meeting and she said something to the effect just about like as you kind of look at the trajectory of CFDI. I'm in my 20th year. Tom has another year left on his term as chairman. And like what, what's next? Right? And, and it was talking about like what does my position look like moving forward in Thailand's like who the heck do you think is going to want to do that job? He even right. And because it's unique job, it's not a fashion job. So you kind of have to have fashion adjacency. But you also have to understand the not for profit piece. And then there's all that complicated stuff that we've been talking about is New York Fashion Week and the scheduling and the manufacturing. So I appreciate you recognizing and acknowledging the complexities of it because my team knows this. We are basically 1-800-customer service for fashion. I'm aware. And the work that we do, we does have public facing exposure. But so much of it is the phone call, the lunch, the one on one, the meeting by chance. And that's where we're really doing a lot of impact. The handholding, the relationship, the connection. So. And you'll see at the CFDA Awards that reflected that night.
- [51:34]
Lauren Sherman
Well, I appreciate you, Steven. And what are you excited about for Monday? I am personally excited about Sarah Mumves, my favorite editor in chief. One of my favorite. Now, I don't want to say I don't want to play favorites, but one of my faves, getting the media work.
- [51:50]
Stephen Kolb
Me too. Sarah is a good example of how we really try to look broadly in the people that have influenced. She's been a joy to work with. Of course, Mary Kate and Ashley are going to be at the event this year.
- [52:04]
Lauren Sherman
Amazing.
- [52:04]
Stephen Kolb
We're going to put them all kind of in a fun little group together. So I'm looking forward to that. We have a surprise performance. I'm not going to tell you who Tom likes to announce that. And you know it's a good performance when it's confirmed. And I have to say who is that?
- [52:23]
Lauren Sherman
So I probably won't know either. Can't wait to know.
- [52:27]
Stephen Kolb
And then everybody working on their projects like what you saw, we announced a Rocky Amazing as our fashion icon.
- [52:36]
Lauren Sherman
The cutest and the best.
- [52:38]
Stephen Kolb
I love him the best. And we should have a pretty cool presenter for him.
- [52:42]
Lauren Sherman
Amazing.
- [52:43]
Stephen Kolb
Teyana Taylor. It's gonna be a fun night.
- [52:46]
Lauren Sherman
I can't wait.
- [52:47]
Stephen Kolb
Do you know what you're gonna wear?
- [52:49]
Lauren Sherman
I was gonna. Is it okay for me to wear Aliyah since Peter Mullier is being nominated.
- [52:55]
Stephen Kolb
He's nominated for the CFDA Award. So he's getting a CFDA Award. Absolutely.
- [53:00]
Lauren Sherman
I could potentially wear something. I usually wear something from the Row or Alaia. That's where all my fancy dresses are from.
- [53:07]
Stephen Kolb
I give you permission for Alaia.
- [53:09]
Lauren Sherman
Thank you. I'm gonna wear either blue Alaia dress or a black Alaia dress. I think I wore the black, the blue one last year, but I might repeat, so.
- [53:18]
Stephen Kolb
That sounds perfect.
- [53:20]
Lauren Sherman
Steven, thank you so much. This was such a pleasure. It's been so fun getting to know you over the years and doing reporting and you getting mad at me and me getting mad at you and you've.
- [53:31]
Stephen Kolb
Just done your job. You're just silly. Drop. And I'm a big fan of Puck, by the way. You do a great job, and you have everybody talking about what you're writing, and so. Thank you.
- [53:43]
Lauren Sherman
No, thank you. Well, I'm sure we'll talk again soon. Come back on next year.
- [53:47]
Stephen Kolb
Yeah. Yeah. I'll see you Monday night.
- [53:50]
Lauren Sherman
Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.