Better Call Andrew

Summary

Episode Summary: "Better Call Andrew" | Fashion People Podcast

Release Date: May 9, 2025
Host: Lauren Sherman
Guest: Andrew Rosen, Founder and Former CEO of Theory, Investor in Rag & Bone, Alice and Olivia, Veronica Beard, Skims, and Tells Tale & Whisper (TWP)

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Better Call Andrew," Lauren Sherman, Puck correspondent and host of Fashion People, welcomes Andrew Rosen—a luminary in the American fashion industry. Rosen, renowned for founding Theory and his strategic investments in influential brands like Rag & Bone, Alice and Olivia, Veronica Beard, Skims, and TWP, shares his extensive insights into the evolving landscape of fashion retail, the dynamics of multi-brand stores, and his philosophies on nurturing emerging brands.

Andrew Rosen's Journey in Fashion

Andrew Rosen’s foray into the fashion world began at a young age, working alongside his father, a prominent clothing manufacturer. Rejecting the traditional college path, Rosen immersed himself in the operational facets of the business—from factories to warehouses—gaining a grassroots understanding of garment production.

"I started back in 1977 working for my dad... I learned the business from the inside out," Rosen explains (07:39). This hands-on experience laid the foundation for his future endeavors, particularly his pivotal role in the rise of designer-identified products in American fashion during the mid-1970s.

In 1997, recognizing a gap in the market for contemporary, high-quality apparel tailored for the modern woman, Rosen launched Theory. His vision was to blend European fabric excellence with American practicality, crafting clothing that was both stylish and functional.

Building and Selling Theory

Theory quickly became a staple in the contemporary fashion scene, known for its minimalist designs and superior fabric quality. By 2003, Rosen had steered the company to substantial growth, achieving a valuation of $150 million. Seeking new opportunities and recognizing the potential for greater global impact, he sold Theory to Fast Retailing, the parent company of Uniqlo.

"I felt like I could do a lot more with the money than I could with the business," Rosen notes (13:39). Contrary to his initial plans, Rosen remained at the helm of Theory during its integration into Fast Retailing, serving as CEO for an additional 16 years. His prolonged tenure underscored a deep mutual respect and a shared vision for Theory's future within the global market.

Life After Fast Retailing: Investing in the Future of Fashion

Upon retiring from his CEO role in 2019, Rosen didn’t retreat from the fashion scene. Instead, he pivoted to investing, leveraging his extensive industry knowledge to support burgeoning brands. His portfolio includes significant stakes in Rag & Bone, Alice and Olivia, Veronica Beard, Skims, and most recently, Tells Tale & Whisper (TWP).

Rosen emphasizes a hands-on approach to investing, focusing on the quality of the product and the integrity of the founders rather than traditional financial metrics. "I just look at the product and talk to the people and from there I can see what the opportunity is," he states (23:22). This philosophy has enabled him to identify and nurture brands that resonate with contemporary consumers while maintaining high standards of design and manufacturing.

The Dynamics of Multi-Brand Retail

A significant portion of the discussion delves into the role of multi-brand retail in today’s fashion ecosystem. Rosen advocates for the indispensability of specialty stores, which offer curated selections and personalized shopping experiences, as opposed to the often impersonal nature of large department stores.

"Multi brand retail is a necessity... those specialty stores have a loyal following," Rosen opines (44:07). He critiques the decline of traditional department stores, citing their inability to provide a distinct point of view or an engaging shopping experience. Instead, Rosen celebrates the rise of entrepreneurial merchants who create vibrant retail spaces that attract and retain customers through unique offerings.

Rosen also comments on the shifting strategies of major retailers like Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue, highlighting their mergers and acquisitions as potential catalysts for reinvigorating luxury retail by fostering curated and edited assortments.

Advice for Emerging Brands Amidst Industry Challenges

Addressing the hurdles faced by new brands, particularly in the wake of tariffs and shifting market demands, Rosen offers pragmatic advice. He underscores the importance of aligning with specialty retailers who are more receptive to emerging brands than large department stores focused solely on high-volume sales.

"The real trick for young brands today is really the whole specialty store route," he advises (52:07). Rosen encourages entrepreneurs to seek partnerships with retailers that value innovation and are willing to champion new talents, thereby facilitating sustainable growth and market presence.

Future Outlook: Embracing Physical Retail and Innovation

Looking ahead, Rosen remains optimistic about the resurgence of physical retail. He envisions a future where shopping is an experiential endeavor, blending the tactile advantages of in-store browsing with the convenience of online access. Rosen believes that as malls and retail spaces evolve into lifestyle centers, they will better cater to consumer desires for both discovery and engagement.

"I believe that physical retail is definitely back, and physical retail is an important component in the future," Rosen concludes (57:08). His belief in the creative resilience of the American fashion industry fuels his optimism for ongoing innovation and adaptation in the face of economic and global challenges.

Key Takeaways

• Grassroots Beginnings: Rosen’s early immersion in the family business provided a solid foundation for his later successes in founding and scaling Theory.

• Strategic Growth: The sale of Theory to Fast Retailing exemplifies Rosen’s strategic foresight in positioning the brand for global expansion.

• Investment Philosophy: Favoring product quality and founder integrity over traditional financial assessments, Rosen has successfully invested in and nurtured several high-profile fashion brands.

• Advocacy for Specialty Retail: Rosen champions the role of multi-brand specialty stores in fostering a curated and engaging shopping experience, critical for the success of emerging brands.

• Resilience and Innovation: Despite industry challenges like tariffs and the decline of department stores, Rosen remains confident in the fashion industry's capacity for innovation and the enduring relevance of physical retail spaces.

Notable Quotes

• On Founding Theory:

  "Theory just worked. And it had a designer sensibility. It had fabrics from the best mills in Europe, and it had incredible quality. But it was simple in its design and thereby worked for lots of women." (11:21)

• On Investing in Fashion Brands:

  "I just look at the product and talk to the people and from there I can see what the opportunity is." (23:22)

• On Multi-Brand Retail:

  "Multi brand retail is a necessity... those specialty stores have a loyal following." (44:07)

• On Future of Physical Retail:

  "I believe that physical retail is definitely back, and physical retail is an important component in the future." (57:08)

Conclusion

In "Better Call Andrew," Andrew Rosen provides a comprehensive look into his influential career and the broader dynamics shaping the fashion industry today. From founding Theory to investing in the next generation of fashion brands, Rosen's insights offer invaluable guidance for industry veterans and newcomers alike. His emphasis on quality, integrity, and the indispensable role of specialty retail underscores a visionary approach to sustaining and evolving the business of fashion.

Transcript

[Lauren Sherman]

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[Lauren Sherman]

Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and beauty Memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show is Andrew Rosen, the founder and former CEO of Theory and an investor in everything from rag and bone to twp. We're talking American fashion department stores, what makes a good founder, and so much more. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world, and much more. If you're interested listeners of Fashion People get a discount, just go to Puck News Fashion People to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday everyone. Hope you're having a great week. I am back in Los Angeles for a while. Happy to be home. New York was fabulous on Tuesday night. At the end of my trip, Puck hosted a get together at the Lowell Hotel for our luxury adjacent advertising partners. The Lowell is New York City's top five best kept secrets. It's really nice there. Hopefully it stays that way. I'm sure it will. The night's programming was a conversation between John Kelly, my boss and Puck's father, founder and Editor in Chief, and me. We chatted about what's happening in luxury, from tariffs to pricing to long term strategy and also a bit about what makes Puck so great. It was a really nice night and if you're interested in partnering with us, feel free to hit up Richie Grin Richie R I C H I E at Puck News for more info. And also if you want to check out the conversation, there are many clips of it on Puck's Instagram so go with God. Enjoy this week in Line sheet. There's a lot going on. Can find all my Met Gala superlatives. People enjoyed that. Some beauty scoops from Rachel Scroogatz involving makeup by Mario and Drunk Elephant, two of the biggest beauty brands in the world. Plus I have a really scoopy fun story on Satisfy Running and its recent fundraise. So this is a Paris based fashiony running activewear brand that I have been really interested in since it launched. They raised money from 1686 partners, the Luxembourg based private equity firm run by David Wertheimer, son of Gerard Wertheimer. You may know the name because the Wertheimer's own Chanel. So there's lots of fun interesting info in there. Satisfy in and of itself is a good story but about like what's happening in the sports world and Night with Nike and all that. But I'm even more interested in David who seems to want to live a more public life than his extremely private father and uncle. So let's do an interview. David, call me. Sarah Shapiro is also back from the outdoor mall capital of the world Los Angeles where she attended a Beyonce show and did a lot of shopping. So check out her insights in Friday's email. Let's get going with Andrew. Andrew Rosen, welcome to Fashion People.

[Andrew Rosen]

Good to be here.

[Lauren Sherman]

Thank you for taking the time. So on Friday mornings the first question we ask is what did you have for breakfast?

[Andrew Rosen]

I had my normal breakfast, scrambled egg whites and a toasted scooped out bagel.

[Lauren Sherman]

Sounds pretty good. No cream Cheese.

[Andrew Rosen]

Well, I had a little cream cheese.

[Lauren Sherman]

You gotta have a little cream cheese, right?

[Andrew Rosen]

Always have to spread the cream cheese.

[Lauren Sherman]

Did you start scooping out your bagel in the 90s when sex and the City was on?

[Andrew Rosen]

I don't know. I started scooping out the bagel when I decided that it was a bit. It was a bit healthier for me.

[Lauren Sherman]

What's your feeling about Ozempic and all that stuff?

[Andrew Rosen]

I think that. I think it's good. I think it's good. I think that, you know, it's an Ozempica, I understand, has lots of other benefits other than just losing weight. So.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I get fed a lot because I write about. I don't know if you've noticed, but I, I like to check in on what's happening with the GLP1s and I get fed a lot of information about them on Instagram and I just read this week that there's new evidence that it's can repair liver damage.

[Andrew Rosen]

Yeah. So it's all good.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, it's all good. It does mean that you don't wanna drink. Every person this week in New York, every event I've been to, no one's drinking.

[Andrew Rosen]

Really.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. It stops your interest in alcohol apparently.

[Andrew Rosen]

Oh, not only eating, but drinking.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. You have no interest in anything fun, apparently. So, Andrew, I've known you for probably what I mean, I've known of you and written about your companies for longer than known you, but I've known you for about 10 years, maybe longer, maybe longer at this point and have covered all of your businesses pretty much the ones that I know about, I know there are many, I probably don't, but can you maybe. Let's start and you can talk a bit about who you are and why you're on this podcast. Like what is your role in the fashion industry?

[Andrew Rosen]

I mean, you have to, I guess you have to understand. I started back in 1977 working for my dad. My dad was a famous clothing manufacturer back in a whole nother era. But instead of going to college, I ended up going to work for my dad and really started working in the factories, warehouses and learning the business sort of from the inside out. And you know, have had my, My father was, was the first licensee for Calvin Klein and Calvin Klein jeans. And so that's where I started. And I really started out at the beginning of a whole new generation or a whole new generation in our industry of designer identified product. Really. If you look back before, I guess, the start of American design with Calvin Klein, Halston Perry, Ellis, Anne Klein. Before that, there were just big companies that had branded product and designer identified product really started in the, in the mid-70s. So I, I started at a whole new generation of the business. And I, I think I just grew up with that. And I grew up with working with designers and, and, and making really fashionable product, exciting product. And, you know, from, from Calvin Klein went to Anne Klein and then I started theory. And at Theory, I think that maybe that was the start of the contemporary marketplace. And I sort of was one of the first people to identify that there was a void in the market and we needed clothes that were a little more contemporary than what was going on in the bridge market, that we're a little cooler, we're a little faster, we're a little more fashionable. And so I really have sort of been at the forefront of many things that have happened in our industry over the last almost 50 years.

[Lauren Sherman]

You started theory, and we're talking it was mid-90s, right.

[Andrew Rosen]

1997.

[Lauren Sherman]

1997. So it's in the middle of sort of helmet laying, Jill Sander, Prada, all these brands, like true fashion brands and consumers in the US Also buying them, which it wasn't. That's when like buying fashion really, I feel like, became a thing that people with money did in America. What did you learn from the experience working with your dad, with Calvin Klein and then Ann Klein, that made you want to start theory, which was kind of giving that same look of those Italian or European brands at a more reasonable price and to a bigger audience and sort of explaining to them why quality mattered, all of that stuff you did. I think of you a lot as like a explanatory person in the industry that you educate a lot of consumers on how to dress and why clothes matter, that sort of thing.

[Andrew Rosen]

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think you have to understand, to me, American fashion and European fashion are different. Right. And I think they're different for a very simple reason. The artisans and the designers in Europe work very, very closely together. When I talk about artisans, I talk about the fabric mills, I talk about the factories. And I think that there's a very different sensibility about design in Europe. And America's more about pop culture. And America is more about, if you just look at what, American companies are much more democratic. They're not so hung up on, on every detail of fashion. They're not so hung up on the emotion of fashion. I think that's more about the business of fashion. And I think theory, in a lot of ways was more about the Business of fashion. It was really making clothes that worked for the modern woman. And it didn't matter whether she was in America or she was in Europe or she was in Asia. Theory just worked. And it had a designer sensibility. It had fabrics from the best mills in Europe, and it had incredible quality. But it was simple in its design and thereby worked for lots of women. And the fit and the quality and the integrity of the clothing was what was most important to me. And I think that's something that I learned, you know, from my early days working with my dad and working with Calvin.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's also such a great name.

[Andrew Rosen]

It wasn't when I started. It was funny, everyone. When I started. It wasn't a great name, but I think the business made it into a great name, for sure.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, you shaped the business, and so people followed in your stead. But interestingly, you sold it pretty. When did you sell to fast retailing in 04? Or did you.

[Andrew Rosen]

No, I sold to fast retailing in 2003, but I did that for lots of reasons. A. I had a partner, and I thought it was time that my partner and I went our separate ways. I also felt like we started the company with very little, with nothing, and we ended up with a $150 million business that was worth a lot of money. And I was still young, and I felt like maybe I could do a lot more with the money than I could do with the business. And my intention was really to sell the business and go do something else. But it turned out that I ended up staying as the CEO for Fast Retailing for another 15 or 16 years. And, you know, I think that was a great testament to Fast Retailing and Misty and I and the. The inspiration and leadership that he provided, and also the fact that he knew how to work with me. I think he knew the things that I needed to keep me happy, and thereby he got the benefit of me as the founder of the company, staying on 16 years after I sold it to help make sure that it got firmly established as a brand, hopefully for many years to come.

[Lauren Sherman]

When you sold in 03 to Fast Retailing, to Dashi and I, the chairman and I assume, founder of that company that owned Gina, Clo and Theory and all this other stuff, was it surprising that you sold to a Japanese company?

[Andrew Rosen]

It wasn't. Because my closest friend at the time, Ricky Sasaki, who was a wonderful, wonderful man and a really, really terrific guy, has since passed away. He started Theory in Japan, and Theory in Japan basically grew up with Theory in America and I wanted to do that. One, because I wanted to help my friend, but two, because I wanted to have an international company. I didn't want to have just an American company. And Ricky and I were very close. He knew everything I was doing in America. He thought a lot like me and understood me. And so we built this company in Japan at the same time we were building Theory in America. And it was Ricky that introduced me to Missy and I. And you have to understand Missy and I is just one of the foremost intuitive and special people there is in the world. And he saw the value in owning a company like Theory. And I don't think he expected me. I don't think he expected me to be there any more than a year. I don't think he expected that he would need me any more than a year. But it turned out that we had a wonderful relationship for a long time. And I think he inspired me in many ways and taught me a lot about global business, about just how to be a global executive. And I think one of the great things in my career is starting with my father. But even after my father, I've had the opportunity to work with, be associated with some incredible men and women that have really inspired me and taught me how to be a lot more than maybe I could have been on my own. And Misty. And I was certainly one of those people.

[Lauren Sherman]

I also wonder if I assume that Theory being based in the US and having a robust Japanese business, but being based in the U.S. uniqlo has over the years is now very successful in the US and it was a lot of stops and starts. But I'm sure that having this business that was so big in the US made them understand the market more, even though theory sits at a different price point.

[Andrew Rosen]

Oh, I think that. I think that Missy and I totally appreciated the fact that Theory was a foundational business in the US and gave him a home to be able to build from and being associated with American company and have American executives like myself and some of the other members of the team, I think that was part of his motivation and it was very smart, I think, in the fact that he did it that way.

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[Lauren Sherman]

So in 2019, after 15 years of working, being the CEO of Theory, but working for Mr. Yanai, you finally quote unquote, retired, which is the is. I don't know if it's an oxymoron, but it's definitely funny given how much you work. But what. Obviously six months later Covid happened. But like, what have you been doing since you left Fast retailing? Because I assume you could have just been golfing and doing your horse stuff, but you obviously are doing more than that.

[Andrew Rosen]

I play a fair amount of golf and I fish, which I like to do a lot, and I have thoroughbred racehorses. But I grew up in the fashion business. I really love fashion and I feel like I'm still relevant in the industry and so I have stayed with it and I do a lot of things. You know, I had invested in lots of companies during the time I was at Theory and have continued to invest in companies. And, you know, this, there's probably too many of them to mention here. But, you know, I'm definitely inspired by working with entrepreneurs. I'm definitely inspired by working with people that can teach me things, people that, that I can get inspired by and, and, and hopefully sometimes inspire. And I like building businesses. And you know, I, I was lucky enough to get involved with the Rag and Bone guys early on. I got involved with Stacy at Alice and Olivia very early on. I got involved with the Veronica Beards early on. All of those businesses were very small when I got involved and now they're cornerstones of business not only in America, but throughout the world. And the other person that was really important to me and has been important to me over the last number of years was Jens. Greed at initially frame and good American and skims and many other things. And Jens and I met 10 or 12 years ago and really were friends from the first time we met. And I've done a lot of stuff together and continue to do a lot of things together. So, you know, I tend to be able to find people that inspire me. And you know, I think this one thing that's true with all of them, they're incredibly talented and they have a lot of integrity and I like working with people like that.

[Lauren Sherman]

What made you want to start investing in fashion? You know how hard it is. And you, you, you're particularly Good at making money in fashion, which I don't know many people who are, but you know how challenging of a business it is. What made you, like with Stacy or the rag and bone guys early on or the Veronica's, what made you decide, okay, I'm going to put a good amount of my money into these businesses and, and help guide them.

[Andrew Rosen]

I mean, you have to understand something. I spent my whole life in this business. My father before me spent his whole life in the business, and his father spent his whole life in the business. So I like to say, like, you know, there's 125 years of experience here, but I just think it's. It's just something I don't even. The crazy thing is I don't look at a financial report or a balance sheet or anything when I'm investing in these businesses. I just look at the product and talk to the people and from there I can see what the opportunity is. I don't really like to do startups. I mean, there's really only two companies that I've started from scratch. One is theory and the next one is something we're going to talk about. I'm sure a little bit later is twp. But other than that, I really have liked investing in people and helping people grow their business. But I like to see companies that have been able to establish themselves in making a product, designing a product, making a product and selling a product. And I like to make sure that the people I'm investing with can go from A to B to C. Right. And if they can go from A to B to C, I can really help them. In any of these companies, I don't do much work, but I do have a lot of conversation with them and talk to them about ideas or just help them achieve the vision that they have. And you know, I like collaborating with people and working together. It doesn't always have to be my idea. If you look at the companies I'm invested in, aesthetically, they're all very different.

[Lauren Sherman]

That's true.

[Andrew Rosen]

And aesthetically, some of them are not even my aesthetic, but I totally understand and can plug into someone else's vision and someone else's aesthetic and help them achieve their goals.

[Lauren Sherman]

When you're looking at these companies, is it the founder's grit, is it product market fit or whatever? Like knowing that there's a customer, seeing a customer for whatever it is. To me, it feels like the people you tend to invest in are people who are willing to go the extra mile and work really hard and don't think that they are just gonna get something handed to them. But how much of that is what drives you when you give someone a check? Versus I think that this is a product that people in the market need right now.

[Andrew Rosen]

I mean, I think most of the time I like to work with people that I feel have something a little extra. Right. For example, I mean, I just have invested in Danielle Frankel, the bridal business. And I think her. And she's incredibly talented and creative. She has a husband who's her partner in the business who's really, really strong and supports her. And I think they had spent a number of years building their business, and all they needed, in my opinion, was some capital and some advice and support. And I think they can double and triple and quadruple their business in a very short period of time. But they really had the design integrity and the personal integrity that is important to me.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I thought that was a really interesting one. And I'm gonna have her on because I wanna learn more about her model and how they're developing. Because it is unique in the bridal space to see something that doesn't feel like it's the way it's been done before.

[Andrew Rosen]

Right. And I think that space. That space is open for somebody with new ideas and a fresh perspective. And I think she'll. I think there's a huge opportunity there.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I agree. I feel like it's not a replenishment business, but it's definitely. There's always a customer, there's always someone getting married. And there needs to be new ways to. To service that person. How much do you think about price point? Because Danielle Frankel is. Her dresses are. A lot of them are really, really expounded. Yeah. So that's different from. A lot of your price point has been in that. What was long called the contemporary space, which you actually. You essentially created with. Maybe there was two other people, I don't know who coined the term, but you created it. Theory was, you know, ground floor of that. And right now, in particular, pricing has become such a hot topic because luxury goods have gotten so expensive, and at the same time, fast fashion made everything cheaper. Now with the tariffs, who knows what's gonna happen? But how important to you is the price? And how do you determine that they've kind of landed on the right pricing?

[Andrew Rosen]

I mean, this is gonna sound terrible, but I don't really think about price at all.

[Lauren Sherman]

That's interesting. Tell me.

[Andrew Rosen]

Science is not really a relevant conversation for me. I think that. Listen, first of all, I don't want to make clothes that are too cheap and I don't want to make clothes that are too expensive. And the reason is I don't feel that I could be competitive in either marketplace. I think we're, I think American companies and Americans are a big disadvantage, as I said earlier in the designer space. I think that, I think it's just we are at a big disadvantage. I think in the more mass space there's always someone cheaper and I don't think in a cheap way. I'm not a no frills operator operator. I believe in quality, I believe in integrity. I believe in making emotional clothes. But when it comes to price, I think that yes, you have to offer value but the price is related to what things cost you. And if the product costs X, we have to get X. And that's the way I don't really feel price is a deterring factor within the shade band of the marketplace that I work in. So within the marketplace that I work in, I don't really think about price at, at Ragged Bone or Alice Olivia or Frame or twp. I mean the price is the price and if it's $20 more or $20 less, I don't think it matters to the customer. I think what matters is how does it fit, how does it feel, how does it look? And as long as we're delivering that, I feel that we're going to succeed and we work at a certain margin. It's not like we work at extraordinary margins, but we don't work. And so price is what it has to be. It's not really a factor for me.

[Lauren Sherman]

I feel like a lot of people would say that TWP for instance, which was started a few years ago by Trish west coast pound and you have, you're her partner in it, she worked with you at theory and you've made this into a very significant business pretty quickly. I think one of the reasons it's been so successful is the quality is really, really good for the price.

[Andrew Rosen]

Totally.

[Lauren Sherman]

I think a lot of people would say I can't make stuff at the price Andrew makes it at because I don't have the relationships like how much of the margin that you do get is because you've been doing this for so and you know exactly how to do it.

[Andrew Rosen]

So you have to, you have to understand. I started when my, when I went to work for my father. My father spent maybe spend the first two and a half years in the factories in New Bedford, Massachusetts, in Long island, in El Paso, Texas, understanding how to make clothes and working with. On the sewing floor, working with pattern makers, working with the cutters. So I understand the business in sort of a unique way. And, you know, it's just. It's sort of second nature to me as to how to design clothes, manufacture clothes and sell clothes. And I think that that's. Now you add the component of marketing, which didn't exist back in the day, there because the magazines and department stores did all the marketing for you. Now today it's different, but I mean, it's fairly simple. It's just a question of understanding it.

[Lauren Sherman]

Do you think most people don't understand it or do they not try to or. Because I do think a lot of people have issues because they overdevelop or they don't find the right factory for the right item, and they just make a lot of mistakes that end up being costly and it feels like you.

[Andrew Rosen]

I make a lot of mistakes too, by the way. Don't think.

[Lauren Sherman]

I don't make mistakes, I'm sure. But the net overall, yeah, it works good.

[Andrew Rosen]

But I don't know. I just think that. I just think that all of our companies are really focused on what our mission is and where we sit in the marketplace. And we tend to think forward and not think backwards. And I think that we're all entrepreneurs. I like entrepreneurs, and my partners are all entrepreneurs, and we're interested in what's coming tomorrow, not what came yesterday. And I think that's a big part of the success of our companies. And I think that maybe I was lucky because that's who I found all the time. But, yeah, it's like that.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, I think you have. One of the skills that you really have is eye for knowing talent on the design side and the business side. And I know a lot of people who have wanted money from you and you haven't given it to them because. And I know why. Because I know the way you think and I know the way they think. And you do make a lot of sound choices, like your partnership with Jens, who has also been on this podcast, and everyone should listen to that episode. But every time I've talked to him, he brings you up. And I think that that mentorship and that back and forth, you also do have a really good sense of who is willing to go the distance, essentially, I think.

[Andrew Rosen]

Yeah, I mean, I think that partnership and. And mentorship and collaboration is critically important. And, you know, I don't. I think that. I think that I've been. I. I've, over the years have learned who I can work with and who I can't work with. And clearly I, there's a lot of companies that maybe I wanted to invest in but I didn't invest in because I just didn't think, think that it would work. I give you the best story. I had an opportunity to invest in WeWork when WeWork was just starting and his first WeWork was right across the street from me in my theory office and he used to come up and see me, Adam used to come up and see me almost every day and we would talk about things. It was incredibly exciting. It was incredibly, he, he, he, he was really a very visionary guy and he wanted me to invest in WeWork. Stupid me says I don't trust this guy.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, in the end, I mean you probably would have still made a lot of money, but I would have made.

[Andrew Rosen]

A lot in the end. You were right at the end. I was right, but I was really wrong. So you know, I have stories like.

[Lauren Sherman]

That about, about lit, like I ignored the Warby Parker people for five years before I talked to them. Mine have no financial implications, but they're, everybody misses out on some stuff.

[Andrew Rosen]

But anyway, I'm just saying I, I, I don't there it's, it's, it's got to tick a lot of boxes for me to, to invest because you know, I mean, listen, Stacy and I been partners for over 20 years. The Veronicas and I, you know, Jens and I. It's a long term, this is a long term thing. It's not, it's not, you know, it's, it's not a couple years. I'm, I'm not a private equity investor. You know, it's different than that. You know the private equity, they have a five year horizon.

[Trish Westcoat Pound]

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[Andrew Rosen]

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[Lauren Sherman]

With Trish and twp. That is something you mentioned that it's really the only other company other than Theory you started. Why did you want to go into business with her? And also, what has that been like, building something over the last five years in the middle of COVID and all this other stuff? And also just. It's a totally different market from when you started Theory.

[Andrew Rosen]

I mean, I had, I was, I, you know, Trish. Someone introduced me to Trish and said, have you seen what Trish is? Someone said, have you seen what Trish is doing? I said, no. I said, why don't you have her call me? She called me and she remember, Trisha and I worked together for six years very closely. She was actually the president of Theory at one time, and she wasn't a designer. And one season, my designer quit. And I said, trish, you're gonna go and design the line? She said, what do you mean? I said, well, I need somebody to design it. You're gonna do it. You can do this. You have great style, you have great taste, you incredible merchant, and you go do it. And anyway, that's how she started designing. But anyway, in 2023, 2022, someone said to me, have you seen what Trish is doing? I had met with Trish and she started to pull out all these clothes from this bag that she was carrying. And I said, trish, okay, enough, Stop. I said, I got it. And I guess that it struck a chord with me that I had been investing and helping all these people in their business. And I sort of wanted to do something that was a little bit more personal to me and where I could start and create a culture and an environment that was more in line with what I liked. And Trish's aesthetic and what Trish does is very aligned with what I like and what I do. And Trish and I work super well together and very seamlessly and effortlessly. So, yeah, I wanted to Start something again that you know, reflected a lot of my views on how companies should run. And Trish, Trish, you know, she's incredible designer merchant. I mean she's incredible talent. I think one of the most talented, one of the most talented undiscovered in America. By the way. She's super good and designs everything herself and, but, but, but she doesn't, she knows that she loves to design clothes and to do all of that and you know I'm able to do the business side of it and all of that and, and, and it works really nicely. It works really, really well.

[Lauren Sherman]

So you primarily work in this, as we were saying, contemporary space and also in theory, I don't know when you left what the percentage. I know a lot of it was direct to consumer by the time you, you exited but you made a lot of money at department stores and multi brand retailers and TWP is in a lot of stores. I did a story with, with you guys probably what two years ago now or a year and a half ago and I talked to Beth from Kierna Zabet. It, it's still, it's a really important, I remember talking to Elise Walker about it. It had become a really important account very quickly how has, and obviously I write a lot about sort of changing face of multi brand retail and what's going to happen with Uxnetta Porter Group and Saks and all these things in, in the last 10 years and especially in the last five since you left theory. How has the relationship with brands and stores changed and how has the retail client like what's your, I mean this is 50 questions in one, but what's your big picture observation of multi brand retail and what role it plays in the fashion ecosystem at this point?

[Andrew Rosen]

I think multi brand retail is a necessity. I, I think it's critical and I think the eyes, the eye of someone like a Jeffrey or Bethet Kern is a bet or Elise Walker, on and on and on is critically important. And if you look around the country, not even major city, every city has their local fashion retailer that's got a perspective and a point of view and an eye from coast to coast by the way. And I think it's critically important that that exists. And I think those specialty stores have a loyal following. What happened in my opinion is the department stores have lost their way and the department stores became a sea of merchandise and not a point of view and not a experience for the customer to shop in. And that's the thing that has to change back again. And I think that there is. The thing that happened is that brands were forced to go direct to consumer their own stores, their own websites. So the need for third party retail is very, very different. And the amount of third party retail that is required in the future is very, very different than it was 10 years ago. And you saw, I mean, Bar News closed. Nobody missed them. I know nobody missed them. I mean it's almost sad, but nobody missed them.

[Lauren Sherman]

Everybody misses it. But nobody misses it. Everyone thinks they miss it, but like would they be shopping there?

[Andrew Rosen]

Exactly, exactly. Although I hear this printhom, what printhom has done, I haven't seen it but I hear it's pretty epic what they're doing downtown.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's fabulous and it's really good for food and beverage. I think you would go in there and be like here are the five things you need to change with the merchandising.

[Andrew Rosen]

Right.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's not merchandised in a way that makes it easy to shop, shop.

[Andrew Rosen]

Yeah, well, it's an exciting experience and I think it's gotten a lot of traffic. I mean the location is maybe a little difficult.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Rosen]

So I think that the future is going to be, I think that. And the other thing, the thing that happened with all these websites is is that again it just, there was too many of them and they were competing with all the brands too. So everything needed to be right sized again. And I was actually a big proponent and a big fan of the Sachs and Neiman's merger because I think that there's a major opportunity there for them to really reestablish luxury retailing in America and make sense of it. Because I believe though that it has to be more edited and curated both from a assortment point of view and a store point of view. I think that they have to invest heavily in their stores and I think that Richard and his team are very, very smart guys and I think that if they have the resources to be able to do it, it's going to be a big success and it's important that it is successful. But I think that department stores are a part of the mix. I think specialty stores are a bigger part of the mix. I think what this, what Bob Mitchell is doing with Mitchell's is, is really exciting, you know, and I think that's an important player in the landscape here. And I think we need those kind of, we need those kind of entrepreneurial merchants, operators to really create exciting retail experiences. And the customer wants to shop and the customer wants to shop in physical retail. I think they do a lot of looking online but they do a lot of buying in physical retail today.

[Lauren Sherman]

That's interesting because I always feel like it's the opposite where when people even go in, they look and then they go online and buy. But you would have the data to know.

[Andrew Rosen]

I think it's the reverse. I think that to me what I see happening is physical retail is growing at a much faster rates than digital retail. I think that people are wanting, they want to be able to actually see the clothes in three dimension. Remember, shopping online is two dimensional and it has its limitations. And I think that people now are really doing a lot of shopping online but buying in stores. And I think that that's changed. But I think that they also want a nice experience in physical retail. And I think that's what is starting to happen. And I think that the experience is getting a lot better. I think the malls are getting a lot better. I think the malls are getting a lot more exciting and I think that's as they start to transform into more lifestyle centers and not just clothing warehouses.

[Lauren Sherman]

Would you ever open a store yourself, a multi brand or. I feel like, I mean, I promise no surprises, but I vaguely remember you being part of a group of people who at one point tried to buy Barneys. But maybe I'm wrong.

[Andrew Rosen]

I mean Sam Benavram, who's a good friend of mine, had wanted to do it and I certainly was willing to support him and likes the concept of it. But no, I mean, I think that there's a special skill in being a third party retailer and I think that I would leave that to the retailers. But I have become obviously as a brand now there's a greater and most of the companies that I'm involved in, we would be 60, 65% direct to consumer. And I think that therein, you know, it's just a, it's a much easier experience for us to be doing direct business than wholesale business. Although the wholesale business is an important part of what we do. And it's something that I think is necessary. I think having the authenticity of a major retailer, whether it's Saks or Neiman's or Mitchell's or Kern as a bet or Elise Walker or net a Porter, say that your product is good enough for us to carry it is an important thing.

[Lauren Sherman]

I'm sure you talk to young designers all the time. You talk to newer brands all the time. I'm sure people are constantly asking you for advice in the middle of all this. Like I don't even, I'm not even gonna touch tariffs because every brand is so different. Every company operates so differently. You produce a lot of stuff in the US But I'm sure a lot of your stuff is sourced in China or near China or connected to China or whatever. What broad advice could you give someone right now who is thinking, why am I doing this? It's impossible. I have so many friends who had brands at matches, lost $500,000 and now they're like, oh, what am I going to do now with all this tariff stuff? I'm going to be out another 300 grand or a million or whatever. How do you keep. Keep going?

[Andrew Rosen]

You know, I think there are a lot of headwinds for sure, and the tariffs are certainly front and center of that. You know, I think that, you know, the other thing that's a problem for small companies is who's going to champion them. These retailers, big retailers today, are only interested in big brands. And I think that's a mistake. I think that, you know, the new up and coming brands are the exciting ones, the important ones. Customers like to discover new brands. Customers like the next generation of, you know, what a jacket looks like or what a pair of pants looks like or what a sweater looks like. And that comes from young designers starting their business. And you know, unfortunately there isn't the retailers like Barney's. I mean, Barney's was good at it. Of championing these young companies and helping them get off the ground. And I think it's more difficult today. And I definitely believe that it's. That's why I like so much the local specialty stores. And when I started twp, the whole focus was specialty stores and not department stores. And we were able to sell 175 specialty stores around the country and build a big following and a big business. And then we were able to start our e commerce site and open stores and everything else. I think that it couldn't have been done if I just wanted to sell department stores. Yeah, I think the real trick for new for young brands today is really the whole specialty store route. And I think those guys are, there is, there is a lot of them and there are some exciting ones and they're, they're pretty healthy. I think the problem with department stores is they don't want a brand that does 500,000 or a million dollars worth of business. It doesn't do them any good. It doesn't move the needle. And I think it's something that the department stores have to rethink though, because I think they have to set up an area of their store that's Incubating the next generation of whether it's a Veronica Boy beard or whether it's Nili Lotan or whether it's whoever and twp and all, they have to make it easy for a point of entry for those brands to get started. And right now, it's not that easy. And it takes someone with experience and somebody that knows how to cut through the red tape to be able to build a business. And I know I have talked to a lot of young brands, many of who I actually would, at some point would like to invest in and help who I think have really good clothes. They make it in America or they make it overseas. But connecting all the dots between the design, the. The merchandising, the marketing, the manufacturing and the commerce is very hard for them.

[Lauren Sherman]

Andrew, I have to run, and we've. We've already been talking for almost an hour. Can you believe it? Okay, my last question for you is, what do you think is next? Like, what do you think, looking ahead, the companies you're talking to, the things you're invested in, what do you think the next phase of the industry looks like?

[Andrew Rosen]

You know, the industry at the moment has lots of challenges. The interest industry at the moment also. I mean, I'm an opportunistic person, so I think there's a lot of opportunities, too. But, you know, the whole tariff thing, where that's going to end up, sacks and demons, where that's going to end up, how that's going to end up. I have a lot of confidence in what they're going to do and what they can be doing. But it certainly has been challenging for us with some of the things they've been doing. But I think that America, the industry people are very creative and they will come up with the next generation of. We will come up with the next generation of the fashion industry, whatever it be. I think that physical retail is definitely back, and physical retail is an important component in the future. And I believe that we just have to keep working at it and see what's next.

[Lauren Sherman]

Andrew, thank you so much. And I also just want to personally thank you because you've taught me a lot about the industry over the years just by. In the way you work and answering questions for me. And you've been a mentor to a lot of people, but also to me.

[Andrew Rosen]

That's very nice of you to say. And I have a lot of respect for you and what you do. And from the first time I met you, I felt that there was something unique about your style of reporting. And so on. And I know you've been on the forefront of way too many stories here, but you usually get it right.

[Lauren Sherman]

Too many stories.

[Andrew Rosen]

You usually get it right. Thank you.

[Lauren Sherman]

Thank you. I appreciate it. I endeavor to get it right. But let's do part two soon. This was awesome.

[Andrew Rosen]

All right, talk to you.

[Lauren Sherman]

Thank you, Andrew. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck Co Founder John Kelly, Executive Editor Ben Landy and Director of Editorial Operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.

[Andrew Rosen]

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