Loading summary
Transcript95 lines
- [00:00]
Lauren Sherman
You know, those little habits that quietly upgrade your whole day. For me, it starts the moment I wake up with a giant glass of water. The breakfast of champions. Before coffee, before making my kids lunch, I grab a bottle of Fiji Water to get hydrated. Because hydration is my number one priority in life. Seriously, Fiji Water isn't just refreshing, it's Earth's fun finest water. It comes from the islands of Fiji, filtered through ancient volcanic rock and naturally preserved from external elements. It's bottled at the source and untouched by man until you unscrew the cap. Here's what makes it different. Fiji Water has a perfectly balanced 7.7 ph and has more than double the electrolytes as the other two top premium bottled water brands, giving its signature soft, smooth taste. Unlike the other two top premium bottled water brands, Fiji Water's electrolytes are 100% naturally occurring. Fiji Water is also leading the way in sustainability. Since 2022, their 330 and 500 milliliter bottles have been made using 100% recycled plastic. Fiji Water is the number one premium importer bottled water brand in the US and it's easy to see why Fiji Water is Earth's finest water.
- [01:24]
Dermalogica Advertiser
Get smoother, Brighter Skin Instantly in one easy step, Dermalogica's Daily Microfoliant gives you the smooth, glowy skin you want without damaging your skin barrier. This gentle exfoliating powder activates with water to smooth out rough texture and brighten skin. It's powerful enough to deliver results, yet gentle enough to use every single day, even on sensitive skin. See the results for yourself, visit dermalogica.com and use code smooth at cart for an exclusive free gift with 65 doll dollar purchase.
- [01:58]
Lauren Sherman
Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line sheets and today with me on the show is designer Danielle Frankel to discuss the business of bridal before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries line. She is scoopy, analytical and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world and much more. If you're interested listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go to Puck News slash Fashion People to join Puck or Start a free trial. Happy Friday everyone. Hope you had a great week. I got back from my vacation on Tuesday and it ended up being a fairly busy week for news. As I'm sure you can tell, we do not cover every little thing that happens in the fashion and beauty industries. We're very selective but. And sometimes on a slow news week, there just isn't much. But interestingly, things are picking up. Travis Kelce not only announced an engagement, which, whatever, I don't really care. I, I don't want to talk about it any more than we already have, but I'm sure we will anyway. He also announced a collaboration with American Eagle, which I thought was interesting. More on that online sheet in the Wednesday issue. Plus, the Venice Film Festival started of some pics of Best Dress next week. And then we're going to have a very special guest on next Monday or next Tuesday, September 8, to sort of talk about Venice and many other things in that world and what else is going on. Oh, oh, Gap earnings happened and the US Open is happening on that front. There was obviously a lot of chatter about Yelena Ostapenko's words to Taylor Townsend post match. So much drama. People are rude. I mean, I'm also a sore loser. Don't participate if you can't handle and you can't be classy, don't participate anyway. Of course there was also the news of Carlos Alcaraz's buzz cut, but about the clothes, okay, people were complaining that you can't buy our queen Coco Gauff's New Balance kit. New Balance, you need to get on that. And they were also speculating as to why Jack Draper forced himself to compete even though he was supposed to take eight weeks off before he did anything. He, he was injured. He was supposed to take eight weeks off. US Open started in seven. He was too early, wasn't ready. Some were saying he may have rushed things because he just signed this big new deal with Yori, which I think is pretty huge given what we know about Kirsty Godso's deal and he wanted to debut the new kit, but honestly, I don't know. Fury signed him for a long time. They signed him because he's a good looking guy, not because he's like the best player in the world. I don't know what his actual ranking is. I think it's five or something. But anyway, I don't, I don't think that's why. I think he was just excited to play and unfortunately he is no longer in it. Is he a great Player. I don't know. I don't really watch tennis. I do. I am interested. I did play tennis in high school but I'm not following it super closely right now more than ever because I like to be in the culture but not, not as closely as you probably also from the sidelines. A very avid reader of Lynchi and an occasional fashion people guest who would like to remain anonymous in this case said my girl Maya joint is flying under the radar but has the strongest look. So Maya is this Australian wonderkind. She's sponsored by Red Bull and she wears this brand called Elite 11 which has a lot of tennis players. So interesting. So it's like red bull by Elite 11. Good for Elite 11. Interesting approach. Approach. There was also a lot of like high fashion. Venus Williams wore custom erl. I loved her custom Kate look navy and then Jessica Pula and a bunch of other people wore Y3 by Adidas. Anyway, send me your best your or your favorite looks and maybe I'll include some a little item in line sheet at the end of the open. In other news, on Thursday I dug into this lawsuit Natalie Massine filed against her former boyfriend Eric Torstenson in a California court. Natalie, who founded Net A Porter, and Eric, who founded Frame Denim, were sort of the king and queen, or you should really say queen and king of a certain group of fashion people. Everyone who works in fashion, who is anyone knows them and is connected to them somehow because Eric was a creative director at an advertising agency that he had founded. So he worked with a lot of different brands. Natalie obviously touched every brand as the person running Net A Porter, Net A Porter, whatever and their life and work were one and the same. And the suit sort of outlines that I explore the business implications of that suit in which Massine accused Torstenson of fraud, deceit and many other things. As of my recording, he has not Eric has not published a statement or anything. Maybe by the time you're listening to this, they will have published a statement. You could read the suit online if you want, but I think the hope on all sides is that they take this private and settle out of court. So best of luck to everyone involved and I, I hope you read my piece. Finally, one note on this conversation with Danielle. She followed up with me afterwards. She's very studious and she just wanted to say that she had wished she had talked more about the showroom in New York and the gorgeous new store on Melrose in Los Angeles. And I think she has a good point. I haven't been to the Showroom in New York, but I've been to the store in Los Angeles and there just really aren't, if anyone has ever gotten married, that many experiences like that in bridal. It's really like if you were going to a fancy fashion boutique and you're on the vic floor, that's the experience for every single person that goes into Danielle's floor. And, and it is, you know, very one to one experience. So she's very proud of that and just wanted to emphasize it. If you are a bride and you would like an appointment with Danielle, I mean you can just email the website. Don't email me, but whatever. I would suggest it. I had a great one to one experience. My dress was custom many, many years ago and I thought it was a fun way to approach it.
- [09:27]
Danielle Frankel
So.
- [09:28]
Lauren Sherman
So let's get going and hear what she has to say about the business of bridal and how she is changing it. Danielle Frankel Hirsch, welcome to Fashion People.
- [09:40]
Danielle Frankel
Thanks for having me.
- [09:41]
Lauren Sherman
Lauren, what'd you have for breakfast this morning?
- [09:45]
Danielle Frankel
I know everybody says that they know this is coming, so. But mine is probably a first for you. I actually made myself some poached eggs on toast, but with a side of an IV drip because I woke up not feeling a hundred percent and I had a big day ahead of me. So I called someone and within an hour at 9am they were at my house. And so that was my, my breakfast moment.
- [10:16]
Lauren Sherman
That is a real fashion people breakfast.
- [10:19]
Danielle Frankel
Yes.
- [10:19]
Lauren Sherman
If I ever heard one. That's awesome. I love it so much.
- [10:23]
Danielle Frankel
Yeah.
- [10:24]
Lauren Sherman
I won't ask you the details of the drip. How are you feeling?
- [10:27]
Danielle Frankel
I'm actually feeling much better. Yeah. Thank you. I'm, you know, a little cold, but I'm okay.
- [10:32]
Lauren Sherman
It's summer cold season. My kid woke up this morning and was like, I'm sick. I can't go to school for the first time ever because his little friend was sick yesterday. And I was like, we took his temperature. He's like. I was like, what? What? Doesn't feel good. Oh, my head, my stomach.
- [10:51]
Danielle Frankel
I was gonna say, I think he just wants to watch television or something. That's exactly figured out.
- [10:56]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. And what we said was if you stay home, you just stay in bed and read books. And he was like, okay, let's walk to school.
- [11:03]
Danielle Frankel
So we exactly said he's really excited to go.
- [11:06]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. Well, I'm glad you're feeling better. Do you work from home a lot or do you go into an office?
- [11:12]
Danielle Frankel
I go into an office almost every day, unless I'm Traveling or. I mean, there are times where I. I'll stay home if I need, you know, quiet and just need to focus. But that's because when I'm at the studio, I'm really in every department and kind of like, you know, going from place to place within the studio, whether it's the atelier or the sales team. And so if I really just need to sit, then sometimes I'll work from home.
- [11:41]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. Where's your studio? What. What neighborhood?
- [11:44]
Danielle Frankel
It's in the garment district, the heart of the garment district. It's really in the. In the middle of everything, which I'm very proud, because I know right now that part of the business is really struggling. And we have 11 factories. And so we are surrounded by the factories, and our production team is going from place to place, and we have just found it's the easiest location to operate out of.
- [12:08]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, wow, that's amazing. Yeah, that's especially because your brand is about 10 years old, right?
- [12:15]
Danielle Frankel
We are 8 years old, actually.
- [12:17]
Lauren Sherman
8 years. Okay. So even younger. And to start to. To choose that area. Eight years ago. Yeah, it was. It was already, you know, that that was a unconventional choice in some ways. That's really interesting. Do you produce everything in the US or do you do some abroad?
- [12:37]
Danielle Frankel
I would say 90% is in the United States, and then we have about 10% that's produced in Italy and a little bit in India. But I would say the bulk of it is really in the US in New York, specifically.
- [12:51]
Lauren Sherman
So 11 factories are. Are they specialists or. And you have an atelier in your studio, obviously. But what. What kinds of factories are there?
- [13:02]
Danielle Frankel
We have an atelier, so I can explain a little. A little bit about how they all work in tandem with one another. The atelier produces our original samples and what we call our size 6 DUP. So if we're producing our first sample In a size 2, the second sample is made in standard production, size 6 or 8, depending on the style. And then we grade from there, and then each factory specializes in something else. But, you know, there's a little bit of crossover. So, for example, one factory is amazing with draping, and they'll actually put the garments on the dress form, which is really important for a lot of our construction. And then some factories, they specialize in tailoring and more, I want to say, like a cut and sew. They know how to do just, I would say, more specialty tailoring type of things that a draping factory wouldn't necessarily be as skilled in and are any.
- [14:06]
Lauren Sherman
So your brand is a bridal brand. And we're going to get into the business of bridal. Are any of the factories like bridal specialists, or does that not really exist, especially for the kind of work you do?
- [14:19]
Danielle Frankel
Not necessarily, no. Actually, I would say that they're definitely evening wear focused. These are factories that understand how to construct a bustier or a crinoline, which is really, really important. And those are also really time consuming things. So it's sitting at a sewing machine for quite some time and handling those fabrics in a certain way. Also, our fabrics are ivory, so it has to be a factory that is pristine. I think that sometimes you walk into a factory and it can be a little bit chaotic and unorganized. And I think what we are really looking for in our factories when we're sourcing them is can they take on an ivory product and keep it really beautiful and the quality of the fabric remains the same, and our quality control processes really very. They go through a lot of steps before a garment actually walks out the door. So from getting it to the fabrics to the factory and then back to our studio, we want that process to be pretty clean.
- [15:21]
Lauren Sherman
We're going a little bit backwards or. Or inside out. But you said ivory is. Do you have, like, a very particular color of your fabric? Is that. We do.
- [15:31]
Danielle Frankel
We actually. We have a Danielle Frankel ivory that is specific for our business. I would call it more. If you're thinking of a color in your head, it's closest to pearl in that it has, like, a real warmth to it, but it still reads as a light ivory. But we actually have probably 20 shades of ivory within all of the fabrics that we're using. And we dye each one of them to a certain standard of ivory. And I actually like to mix ivories because sometimes people think that, like, you know, you have to have one specific shade, and it will be throughout the whole garment. But I don't have that belief. I think that you need several different shades of ivory within the same garment and. But, you know, done in a very specific way so that you have different layers and opacities and things that are kind of working together to create a cohesive gown that looks very expensive and well produced, versus, like, a flat piece of, you know, one shade.
- [16:37]
Lauren Sherman
Do you ever make a white dress?
- [16:39]
Danielle Frankel
Not really. Not. Not unless we're using cotton poplin, which we have used a little bit in the past. But no, not really. Yeah.
- [16:49]
Lauren Sherman
Okay. One final question on this, and then we're going to rewind to figure out how you got to 20 shades of ivory. Do you use in that factory? InStyle? Does that factory still exist?
- [17:00]
Danielle Frankel
Oh, my gosh. I don't know if some exist. Yes, of course I know them. I don't think that we are in. In style, but I definitely am, like, aware of the factory.
- [17:10]
Lauren Sherman
I did a. I did a story with them probably 10 years ago, and I feel like it may have closed. They did a lot with Marc Jacobs, in theory, when Andrew Rosen was still there, but they were really awesome. And it was. When you mentioned Pristine, it was a very clean factory.
- [17:27]
Danielle Frankel
Yeah. And it makes a huge difference. Yeah.
- [17:29]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. It's interesting, as a journalist, like, I've been in many. And sometimes people don't clean up, but usually I. You can really tell when people clean up because the journalist is coming through with them. I could tell that it was just the standard, and it is an interest. It's a really good point when you're dealing with light fabric in particular.
- [17:52]
Danielle Frankel
Yeah.
- [17:53]
Lauren Sherman
That you need it to not be a mess.
- [17:56]
Danielle Frankel
Yeah, absolutely.
- [17:57]
Lauren Sherman
Okay, so let's start. Let's kind of rewind to how you. How you got into being an Expert on. On 20 different shades of ivory and creating your own proprietary shade. So you are, by definition, a bridal designer. But how did. How did you choose bridal? Because a lot of the stuff we were. We've already spoken about, feels the language is. Is connected to ready to wear as well. More than, I would say, most. Most bridal brands. But how did you. How did you get your start, and how did you end up launching your own business eight years ago?
- [18:32]
Danielle Frankel
Yeah. So I worked for Vera Wang, and I had an incredible experience there. And I really learned from her and her business what a wedding gown was and how to produce it beautifully, where to, you know, source fabrics, things like that. And I think through that experience, I also realized that I had a particular aesthetic. I was within the age group of women getting married, and I would go to the stores, talk to the sales team, and really try to understand what was doing well for us. And this wasn't necessarily part of my job, but I just really enjoyed that, like, really being on the sales floor and on the design team. But I was really a designer, and. And I actually was a drapist more than anything. So I would take fabric, put it on the form, manipulate, and really see what it could do. And I. I think that if. If you talk to people who knew me back when I was a younger designer and everything, they would say that I was very particular, but also that was really. My craft was draping. And as I evolved as a designer and left the business and everything, I realized that wedding gowns are truly special in that it's probably the largest retail purchase somebody's going to make. You have the beauty of the client being somebody who wants to go through an experience that she might not be able to find. So I really found that there was a lot of opportunity in the experiential side of things. And although when I launched it was just, you know, a little tiny studio within a factory in midtown, which is where this all began. And I really saw that there was two parts of the business that I could kind of like wrap my head around starting. One was the craftsmanship and design side of things. And the other was this one on one experience that I could have with clients and grow that experiential part. And through thinking about those as two separate things, being a part of one company, I thought it was a really unique way to start a bridal business.
- [20:52]
Chumba Casino Advertiser
Ready to level up? Chumba Casino is your playbook to fun. It's free to play with no purchase necessary. Enjoy hundreds of online social games like blackjack, slots and solitaire anytime, anywhere. With fresh releases every week. Whether you are at home or on the go. Let Chumba Casino bring the excitement to you. Plus get free daily login bonuses and a free welcome bonus. Join now for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Play Chumba Casino today. No purchase necessary VGW Group void board prohibited by law 21/TNCs apply.
- [21:25]
Lauren Sherman
How would a normal bridal business operate? Like all the bride bridal businesses that show it at Bride. Do you show up Bridal Fashion Week?
- [21:34]
Danielle Frankel
We do and we don't. It depends on the year.
- [21:37]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, that makes sense.
- [21:39]
Danielle Frankel
Yeah, we typically do though. And I think the cadence of our collections is really dependent on what's going on in our business at that time. What custom brides we have going on. And because we're in a growth phase, which I'm so excited about, it's we're always thinking ahead. So if next year it doesn't really make sense for us to show on the bridal calendar, we won't. But if it does, we will. This year we are. And we also have what we call like quiet collections. Gowns that we produce, we don't really market and they kind of just live on their own. So brides discovery the gowns when they come into our studio. That's another collection that we have that people don't really necessarily know about because we don't shoot them editorially or anything.
- [22:27]
Lauren Sherman
So maybe what we can do is break down for me in the simplest terms how like a traditional bridal company would operate and then break down for me how you will operate and what you have seen come out of making those changes to tweaking the model.
- [22:45]
Danielle Frankel
That's a great way of doing this, I think. Okay, so a traditional bridal designer will make a collection, and then that collection will go onto trunk shows, it'll travel the United States and onward. Brides will try on the original samples and then they'll purchase a sample and it will get to them maybe a year later. And it depends on what they're trying on what collection it's from. Sometimes it can be six months later if it was an older season. But generally, if it's a new collection gown, it won't arrive for quite some time. And, you know, it's. It's cut one. So that's, I would say, what a traditional bridal designer will do. The way that we operate is we try to throw all of the bridal rules out the window. And actually, when we hire people, I really try to tell them that I want you to think of, like, how we can perfect this and not listen to any of the rules of how things are made, how they're marketed, anything like that, because we are young and it really gives us the ability to change the cadence of things and how they're produced and all of that. So when we produce a collection, you can purchase our gowns almost right away. And that's partially because we are mainly a direct to consumer business, and we can ship our gowns from our Los Angeles store to our New York studio and whatnot. But also, we don't make the bride wait in that, you know, if it's a new collection, of course she'll get it nine months later, but we don't make her wait to try it on. And that is the big difference for us. We want her to see a new collection and we want her to shop that collection. We don't want that collection to sort of sit and then a year later be something that it takes off at that point. We want our new collections to be what the brides are going to currently purchase.
- [24:45]
Lauren Sherman
Got it. And. And would you say that generally the length of time between someone buying a dress and their wedding has shortened in the time you've been a designer?
- [25:02]
Danielle Frankel
Yeah, and I think we've spoken about this before, but what we've taken is this idea that people are shopping in a shorter amount of time. But also I think that the, the trend Cycle is moving super quickly. And, you know, we obviously want to be ahead of that and we want to be almost trendless and. Which is really hard. Right. Because you want to make something beautiful. I believe that it shouldn't be too of the moment. And I want to think of this as the modern classic and not something that is a fleeting trend by any means. So it's taking certain things like the customer and how she's shopping and thinking about how can I keep up with her. So we have decided to cut our garments in, you know, bulk production, which is atypical for bridal, which means that we'll go to our factory and we'll cut 50 to 70 of these gowns, which makes it sound like, okay, it's not so special. But on the flip side of it, 40% of our business is customizations, so a bride can come in and. And that also differentiates us from other bridal designers, is that I think we are more open to customizations and. And purely custom than, you know, you have to purchase this gown, and it. It is. And the client walks away with just her purchase. That's sort of, you know, the gown as designed. We really want to work with our clients to make them feel special and to make them feel like they have a one of one garment, but in a way that's easy for us to produce. And having an atelier helps.
- [26:43]
Lauren Sherman
It's interesting because that sort of halfway production is actually very similar to, like, how Zara works, where they cut stuff and they do a lot of what they call it grayish, and then they cut a lot, and then they can turn something around in two weeks that is like very of the moment by just like tweaking it a little bit and dyeing it a certain way and adding a certain flourish or what have you. And so it's interesting that you're at the other end of this, like, very meticulous process, but you're taking the lessons, the smart things from that and applying it to something which is modernizing your business.
- [27:33]
Danielle Frankel
Yeah, I think what I look at is I see companies or even just ideas of the way that businesses operate. And I say, how do I apply that to what we're doing now? Because we have to keep up with our client. And I think a lot of people who are in my position maybe say, like, well, this is the only way I can do it. And I don't have that mindset at all. Josh and I want. Josh is my husband, our CEO, and we want to keep up with the movement. You know, it's it's very. It's constantly changing. And I think that the way that you succeed is you have to be obsessed with how your customer is shopping. And there's a very traditional way in which a bride shops. And we realize that maybe we have to change that and maybe this woman is open to the change. And I think that that's why we've been able to succeed in the way that we have is because we're looking at it from a customer service perspective in that you don't want to turn away a client who has a wedding in three months. I mean, that would be silly. In a way, you want to service her and at the same time you want to work with somebody who wants to have a custom gown and do that in a four month period as well. So we've really pushed our team to create methods and organize ourselves in a way that we can make that stuff happen. And it's really miraculous in a way. But I think that partially the reason why we're able to do this is because. Because our team is so strong and they know how to execute really beautifully. And that is a lot of this as well is having the right resources and the right team and the right hires.
- [29:22]
Lauren Sherman
Well, that was going to be my next question. What is your approach to hiring? Because, you know, covering the American fashion industry, I hear a lot about. Obviously Carolina Herrera and Oscar have an atelier and Calvin Klein has one. There are certain brands that still have them. But everything we hear. The fact that you were working with 11 factories in the garment district is amazing to me because I didn't even know there were still 11 factories. But how do you approach hiring? And also, do you feel like a lot of it is the sort of training and method that they get? Once. Once. Do you have a lot of success with people who start early with you and work their way up, or.
- [30:10]
Danielle Frankel
I think it's a little bit of both. We've had people who have started as interns and have risen their way up. We have also hired people from other companies, our competitors, for example, and they have taught us things that other people are doing really well and brought them in. But I think our main approach to hiring is really choosing people that understand what we're doing and would be very proud to be part of this journey that we're going on. Because we need creative people who not only understand the business of bridal and the way the garments should look, but also the speed at which it's happening. I think that the first thing that I generally ask somebody When I'm interviewing them is what do you think of the brand? Because sometimes people will answer something like, oh, I think it's like if you're, you know, a cool and I'm saying this in quotes, bride, and you choose Danielle Frankel, like, that's really of the moment. And then I know that that person isn't necessarily the right fit because I don't see it that way. I see this as a heritage brand in the making, meaning we're not there yet, but we will be. And I want to think of our daughters and granddaughters and how they are going to think of wedding gowns when they eventually shop for them and how our brand relates to that in the future. So it's taking culture, but at like the right moment. Right. So who's getting married that's in the world right now that would be really important to dress and who cares about that person? And then aside from that, on the flip side, if the real weddings we have and that are photographed and then shown, whether it's on Instagram or just social media in general, how does that influence our brides as well? And really educating those women as to what a bride could look like today, but also thinking about it ahead of time. So the hires we make, they have to really sit with that and they're going to be the ones that are influencing whether it's, you know, from our sales team and really working with the brides or on our production team and thinking about that as well.
- [32:29]
Lemonade Pet Insurance Advertiser
Just got a new puppy or kitten. Congrats. But also, yikes. Between crates, beds, toys, treats, and those first few vet visits, you've probably already dropped a small fortune, which is where Lemonade pet insurance comes in. It helps cover vet costs so you can focus on what's best for your new pet. The coverage is customizable, sign up is quick and easy, and your claims are handled in as little as 3 seconds. Pro Lemonade offers a package specifically for puppies and kittens. Get a'@lemonade.com pet. Your future self will thank you. Your pet won't. They don't know what insurance is.
- [33:03]
Danielle Frankel
What does possibility mean to you? Um, that's a hard question. Something that you can strive for. I'm able to do anything I set my mind to. You're confident in yourself and you believe in yourself.
- [33:14]
Lauren Sherman
Stuff that you could.
- [33:17]
Danielle Frankel
I feel it's Saira at Ebling is possible when you're more confident. Shoes are a huge part of that. They are the most important part of my style. You can like express yourself in the.
- [33:27]
Lauren Sherman
Right shoes, anything is possible.
- [33:29]
Lemonade Pet Insurance Advertiser
Dsw countless shoes at bragworthy prices.
- [33:32]
Danielle Frankel
Imagine the possibilities.
- [33:36]
Lauren Sherman
It's interesting to me because there is something very much. You are very much of the fashion world, but also have not rejected the bridal world. So you show at Bridal Fashion Week sometimes, but you also did the CFDA Fashion Fund and you're. I got married. Oh my God. A long time ago now. 14 years ago. And my struggle when. And there at the time there was like, I think that Urban Outfitters had just launched Beholden, which was like their bridal, David's bridal competitor. And then at the higher end net a porter had like bomb and dresses. They had a little bridal boutique, but there just wasn't a lot. And I actually had. I don't know if you've ever run into this woman, Andre Gabriel, Andra Gabriel. She was a lingerie designer in the 80s. If you read American Psycho, she's like. When he lists out the. What people are wearing, she's listed many times. I love that she was a Vogue. She was when. When Vogue editors were wearing like slip dresses. They were her. Her slips. And so she does a lot of custom. And I had this erdem dress that I really loved that she sort of did and it was inspired by. But it was really hard for me to find something then. And I feel like it's still a challenge for. Especially as the like, what a wedding is, has changed a lot more people, I think now get married at the City Hall. They do smaller things. It's not just about the like 150 person big wedding. How do you kind of balance being in both worlds? And why is it important to you to sort of have legitimacy in both worlds? Because you do. And. And that's like, I think a. A big differentiator for your brand.
- [35:27]
Danielle Frankel
It was really important to me that we had this sort of stamp of approval from the fashion industry just because at the end of the day this is a product and it is fashion. And I like to say that we are a fashion company and our medium is bridal. And so then when I isolate the bridal part of that, that community is very different. And there are a lot of very special and very smart people within that community and they are equally as important to our business. And when you merge the two, I think that that is actually what makes this business so special, is that we're treating them as partners in a way. We need the fashion part an element of this because at the end of the day, our client is a fashion woman. She is super educated in fabrics and construction, and she has a very discerning eye. And when she comes in and she touches our fabrics, that is what is going to make her understand our product. I think that to see our product in person is very different than to see it on, you know, via our website or whatnot. You really have to touch it and then you're blown away, I think, by the internal structure and the way that it's made and the fit and all of that. And then on the other side of it with the bridal industry, the people there, they are of the mindset and they've taught me a lot about the client experience side of things, because at the end of the day, it's about the client and what they would like. And so we are taking all of that feedback and trying to infuse it into the business and the way that we run. At the end of the day, they understand hospitality. And also it's. You're not just selling to the bride, you're selling to her mother and you're selling to the team that's working on her wedding. Because we have bridal stylists come in and bridal, you know, and then wedding planners and all of these teams. So it's not even selling to an individual client at this point. You're selling to the people in their orbit as well.
- [37:37]
Lauren Sherman
Do you ever. Do you sell at. Wholesale at all?
- [37:40]
Danielle Frankel
We do. And. And the bridal. And those are bridal boutiques, but also Net a Forte. It's funny that you had brought up Net A Forte in the past because we were the first bridal designer that Net A Porter picked up and it was our first collection. And that buyer has actually become a very close friend of mine, Hannah, because she saw the collection and she understood what we were trying to do. And it was, you know, the brand was in its infancy. I actually still feel like we're in the beginning phases of something really important. But she saw it and she understood what it was that made it different and felt that it was important in the context of how we sell bridal gowns, to put it on a site like Net A Porter. And they're still a very close partner of ours and they understand what we're trying to do.
- [38:32]
Lauren Sherman
How much of the business is like mother of the bride or wedding guest, that type of thing has and has that part of the business expanded a good amount in recent years?
- [38:43]
Danielle Frankel
It's a very small part of the business. We are so focused on the bride, and we're going to continue to be Very focused on the bride. We're really thinking, which is incredible if you think about it, because that means that we're not necessarily yet thinking about the returning customer. We will. We'll think about her in the future. But right now, we are thinking very much about the bride. We want to get into her head. We want to understand exactly what she's looking for. And if we're just focused on her, we can do an incredible job on, you know, what it is that she's looking for. And there is a recipe and a way to really figure that out through talking to her. But if we were to, I think, open up our doors a little bit more right now, it wouldn't be the right. Right time. We have to be fully equipped, and we really want to master what we're doing right now.
- [39:34]
Lauren Sherman
It's really smart, because I also think you have a very clear aesthetic and a clear point of view. But if you. Every. Every piece still looks really individual, I would say. And I don't know if you. If you started to go that route, that's a different business. And I see it. I could see five years from now that being a big part. But I understand from my end, and.
- [40:09]
Danielle Frankel
It might be soon. Right now, though, I think you talk about our aesthetic and you look at it, and it really. It's funny, you separate our business as a whole, and that's, like, very exciting what's happening there. But then you look at the actual aesthetic and what we're doing from a design perspective, and that's a whole other conversation as to what gets me really excited about our future, because we started becoming a lot more experimental with what we can do as. As far as technique and development and all of that. And what we've realized is I have this thing that I've been saying to our design team, if you make it as beautiful as possible, she will come, that client will come. And I truly believe that the more beautiful the garment, the better. And so it doesn't matter if it's costly or if, at the end of the day, it's only two that sell, because it's worth it. It's worth it to make that beauty.
- [41:09]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. I was admiring your beautiful shirt that you're wearing, and I believe it may be a set from your collection, your loungewear collection, which I think is. That's a really interesting concept. A. There was a big business of fashion piece, a couple, I think, last week about the rise of loungewear as, like, a fashion item. And then also. And Sarah Shapiro on my team was like, yeah, this. She used to be a buyer at Bloomingdale's and kind of walked through what has changed and why. I mean, obviously Covid, but there's so much to it. But that's a really interesting sort of ancillary business because it is something where these brides are buying sort of sets for the whole week or weekend of events and things like that. And this stuff is so beautiful. How have you approached like the loungewear and the headpieces, the footwear, all of that stuff complimentary to the gowns. And how do you see it like playing into the business?
- [42:13]
Danielle Frankel
Well, first of all, we're gonna have to get you some of these pajamas because I live in them and they're amazing. And I feel like you also are somebody that appreciates comfort in everyday life life. But, you know, I think that for us, expanding into these categories is really important because at the end of the day, when you're a bridal label, it you're in the business of life cycles. Right. And it's a part of the brand's narrative and story to expand on life cycle. So, you know, it's almost lifestyle then in a way. So we're talking about loungewear, footwear, all of these things that within your wedding day you might want. But then beyond that, I think it gives us the ability to think, you know, what else is happening in this woman's life when she's getting married. And that's where we can truly expand on what we're doing and make really special pieces according to what's happening in the client's life at that point. So engagement, destination, honeymoon, we're definitely tapping into that, but all within the world of the wedding.
- [43:27]
Lauren Sherman
Wanted to briefly discuss pricing and your prices seem like very much in line with the rest of the market, but you are producing in New York, which is very expensive. And it's funny, I was at my mother in law's a couple weekends ago and looking through old Vogues and looked at a vogue from 89 or 90 and was looking at the prices of all the dresses and I adjusted them for inflation. Yeah, and the dresses were like seven, $8,000 in today's. And so there's a lot of. In the luxury world, there's a lot of a big conversation around pricing and is everything too expensive? And I think what has happened is that unfortunately, because on the lower end, everything is so cheap because like a pair of jeans that were $50 in 1950 now cost $30 in some cases. So they've actually decreased like by hundreds or Two hundreds percent in price that people don't understand the value. But from your perspective as, as you all started to build the business and price things out, how do you, I, I assume you don't have a lot of price sensitivity, but just how do you think about pricing given like this bigger narrative that's going on in the market, in the, in broader fashion and.
- [44:50]
Danielle Frankel
Luxury space, we really try to look at the value of the garment. So we ask ourselves, you know, what is this going to cost to make it and all. There's a lot of specialty things that happen with the, each garment at hand. So whether it's hand painted or there's bindings and a lot of hand finishings, things like that. And then we work backwards from what the margin is. I think that we really though at the end of the day we try to price it at what its true value is. And we work very closely with our sales team. And the costing meetings, they can get very heated if you will. Because I think people have strong opinions as to what the value of something might be to one person versus another person. We also ask ourselves question, the question, where is she wearing this? So if it's a cocktail dress and it's priced too high, will that alienate a woman because she's only wearing that, let's say for her reception? And then we try to think about that as well. So in the context of where she's wearing it plays a lot into the pricing as well. But at the end of the day we want people to purchase it but understand too the value of the garment that they're getting. So there's a lot that goes into every garment and that's really going to dictate the price associated with it.
- [46:14]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, your prices are so varied that that to me is an indication that you really are pricing based on costs of doing business and all of that because it's, it is clear the hand painted piece is much more expensive than a short piece that's with less material. And that I think is, that probably is good for you in the market where people can sort of see, okay, they're not just like making these numbers up. This is really what it's costing when you think of all the hands that are touching it, et cetera.
- [46:51]
Danielle Frankel
Absolutely. And just to speak more about the hands that are touching it, it's really interesting. Right. Because we have a lot of brides that are getting married in Italy or the south of France. And if you think about it, these hand painted garments are actually being hand painted in either Italy or the south of France. So they actually start there and then they make their way back to the United States to be produced and put together and the seams and all of that. And then the bride gets her gown and she ultimately takes it back to the country in which it was painted and then wears it there. And there's sort of a beauty in that, in how it becomes this full circle moment for both the bride and the gown. And then she brings it back home to the United States or wherever she's from, which I think is kind of special.
- [47:42]
Lauren Sherman
Looking at these dresses, I'm like, oh, I wanna, I don't wanna get married again or remove my vows or whatever. But it is so. It's so fun, such a special thing.
- [47:55]
Danielle Frankel
It's really special and we take so much pride in this process. Like there really is something about it that is so special. To see a client come and work with you for really the most important day of their life and it be such an emotional purchase and to really work with them and give them that level of service that they want. There's so much purpose in that for us, our whole team at at large and you know, we get thank you notes that really are so special and then we put them on slack. So you know, the entire company can see because it's. There's a lot of pride at the end of the day in what we do. And I think it's important to share that with our entire company.
- [48:40]
Lauren Sherman
You mentioned wanting to build a heritage brand and it is clear to me as care how careful you are about building out this business that that is true. I also think it's interesting. I wanted to talk about Josh coming on to when he joined the business full time and, and building a family run brand which, which so many fashion brands, I mean pretty much every fashion brand in the entire world is still family run. But you know, if you had started this in 1997, you probably wouldn't really have a business plan. I don't know. If people had business plans then they would get an investor, they would sort figure it out. There wasn't like a lot of preparation and even hearing you talk about going into sort of guest clothes and like secondary stuff. It's so careful and business minded the way you're thinking. Can you walk me through the sort of way you and Josh ended up deciding to work together and then also like how you are thinking of building out the business because you recently in the last year or so took on some outside investment, that sort of thing. So. So while I'm sure There's not like a tremendous amount of pressure to grow fast. I'm sure there is an expectation that you will have a plan of how you will go moving forward.
- [49:57]
Danielle Frankel
Yeah, Josh and I realized that we should start working together because the business was at the point where we needed a CEO and Josh was the best person to do it. He was very qualified. But also he was a co founder with me. To be somebody's spouse when they start a business is to essentially be that co founder. And he would work full time during the day and then come home and really help me run the business. And I bounced every decision off of him and I think it has been the best thing for our family. And I would say that his input has changed this business tremendously. With Josh and I are true partners so we have no overlapping skills. I am fully overseeing the brand and development and the career creative and he is fully overseeing the business. And, and we really, we, we run things by one another but we also fully trust each other. And so having a partner that you almost have nothing to do with what their day to day is in a way. But also then you get to go home with them at night and discuss everything and go over everything is such a luxury. And for us, us, we, we kind of blend our whole life is. We have the same purpose. So whether that's our children and our family and growing that or it's our business which is of course is another child for us, if not more. It's, it honestly is, it's. It's overwhelmingly good for us. And, and it really works.
- [51:35]
Lauren Sherman
And, and where. How do you, how have you sort of built out like in your, in your business model, like how to build it for the next 10 years? Because you've been doing for almost a decade and you came up in an era, in a very unique era where it was like you were post the fashion young fashion brands coming out and sort of just like blasting onto the scene and not knowing what to do business wise. So you had that in the back. You also came up like right after the brunt of the big DTC brands. And then you're also in this category that like no one in either of those worlds has ever really understood how to manage. How do you think about it long term?
- [52:26]
Danielle Frankel
I think we're really lucky in that we are in a very quiet space in that people aren't really tapping into bridal the way that we are and we are really thinking about it it from the bride's head. So our strategy is to keep up with her and the movement and the waves in which the bridal business is moving. And ultimately we will adapt and change as the bride changes. And I think that that's also the beautiful part of being a younger label is that we don't have these, I want to say, like, systems in place. And we do, and we're a hyper organized company, which I'm very proud of. And that's of course all Josh for the most part. But we want to keep up with her. So if we notice that brides are starting to ask us questions about one thing in particular, then we will take that very seriously and start to think about it. And that's why I actually work so closely with our team on merchandising as well, because things like, like separates became very important to our brand. And that came out of people asking us questions about how they can change one top and one bottom and start customizing that way. And so we figured that it would be sort of easier if we started allowing our brides to style within the collection on their own and what that would look like. So we're trying to adapt with the client and hear her very seriously and take the feedback and then implement it in the business. So the strategy is really to think about what she wants and where she's headed.
- [54:06]
Lauren Sherman
Sounds like it's very much about being agile and willing to adapt. Adapt. I think you use that word.
- [54:14]
Danielle Frankel
Absolutely.
- [54:16]
Lauren Sherman
Okay, so big final question. I think I'm obsessed with this idea of like, as our, the way we operate socially in the world changes, our consumption habits, habits change. So covering the, the fine jewelry market for the last 15 years has been really interesting because when I started covering luxury in 2006, there were very few people buying fine jewelry for themselves. It was all about the engagement ring or, or a spouse buying you something. Now people are getting married later, they are not buying diamonds as much as they would for an engagement ring. Things like that. The like we were just discussing the kind of nature of weddings has changed. Of course, with same sex marriage and all of that. It's made, it's probably broadened the market in some ways. But when you think about the future of the bridal market, where do you think it's going? Because you obviously have tons of room to grow, but these companies that are giant, maybe, maybe don't. And where do you think the bride is moving in terms of like what her needs are, not only in terms of gowns, but in terms of just like the event itself?
- [55:36]
Danielle Frankel
I think that things are going to stop being of trend and they are going to be more individual and more about the person and who she is as an individual versus everybody else's wedding. I think that customizing and doing things that are so bespoke for that particular client is going to be the next big thing that we as a company have to conquer. Because ultimately you're talking about an individual who is, you know, this is quite a spend for her and she wants to feel like this is her moment and you're gonna have to cater to that. So whether you are a wedding or event planner or a florist or a photographer, you're going to tap into the individuality of that particular client. Because I think that the issue right now with the weddings world as a whole is that you're seeing a lot of sameness. And I mean, for me in particular, I'm always trying to challenge myself and my design team and even my sales team. How can we do things that are individualized, that are special for that particular customer? And once we conquer how to do that really well, I think that the person or the company or, you know, the future of this business, everything will be based on that individuality. And we're really, we're dissecting that and how to do it well, but also at scale. And that, that's, that's the real question is how do you make all of these individual moments happen?
- [57:21]
Lauren Sherman
But at scale, it's that like one to one experience that really works. It really works. Like at the sell through, the conversion rate on one to one experience is high. But like, it's hard to scale that. So it's, it's a, it's an exciting challenge. But I see it in the way you're, you're piecing all these things together. Like even looking at, I'm looking at the Esther silk wool jacket, which is so gorgeous, and then at the bottom you have these like, perfect accessory and these, these floral earrings and, and that is, I mean, I've never seen anything like it. So it, it is possible, but it's, it, it requires a lot of creativity on the business side, which is probably fun for you and John Josh to collaborate on together.
- [58:10]
Danielle Frankel
It is so much fun to be creative in the business because if you're a creative person, it's not just about what the product looks like. It's about everything surrounding it. It's how you building it and doing it differently. And then to have a partner that is equally as excited as like, we, it's fun because we get to, we get to go for dinner and we get to talk about all of these things that are going on and how we can change them and better them. And we really try to focus on, you know, what is going to move the needle forward and we have the opportunity to do it, which is so exciting.
- [58:48]
Lauren Sherman
Danielle, it was so fun to chat with you and learn about your business. And congratulations. It is such, it's so refreshing to see someone who's like, doing, doing it360 and succeeding. So I'm really excited to watch the Next, the next 10 years.
- [59:05]
Danielle Frankel
Thank you for having me. And I'm so appreciative that you feel like we're really getting it and moving it forward in all of those things. And it was great chatting today.
- [59:16]
Lauren Sherman
So fun.
- [59:17]
Danielle Frankel
Have a good one.
- [59:19]
Lauren Sherman
Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder Jennifer John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador. The Road is Calling Embrace the thrill of the drive with the fully electric Audi Q6E Tron, featuring effortless power and advanced Audi tech. The next chapter of Audi is here.