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- [00:00]
Frankenstein Narrator
My maker told his tale, and I will tell you mine. The New York Times raves. Frankenstein is the movie Guillermo del Toro was born to make, to be lost.
- [00:10]
Sally Christison
And to be found.
- [00:11]
Frankenstein Narrator
That is the Lifespan of Love. Now nominated for 11 Critics Choice Awards and five Golden Globe Awards, including Best Director, Guillermo del Toro and the Best Picture of the Year. I am Not Something, I Am Someone Frankenstein for your consideration. Now playing in select theaters and on Netflix. Rated R Under 17 not admitted without adult.
- [00:30]
Sally Christison
At Optum, we're transforming the pharmacy system, bringing real time pricing, transparency and saving consumers over a billion dollars last year, serving 62 million Americans. We understand behind every prescription is a person. Visit optum.com redefinerx to learn more.
- [00:54]
Lauren Sherman
Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's fashion and beauty memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show is Sally Christison, CEO and founder of Argent. We chat about launching a fashion brand outside of the system, Bossy clothes and so much more. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world and much more. If you're interested listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go to Puck News Fashion People to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday everyone. Hope you are having a great week. We are starting to wind things down at Line Sheet. We're gonna try to enjoy the end of the year, which inevitably means that something big is gonna happen. Something big always happens between Christmas and New Year's. Whether it's a deal, a death. Who knows, maybe ABG will buy Saks Global. I have no idea. Something is gonna happen though. There's no way. Every time I take a vacation, something happens. That's why I like being in the news business any week online. Sheet I did reveal Fashion's Hero of the Year. You have to be an inner circle subscriber to find out who it is. And on Monday, I will be revealing Fashion's villain of the Year. Thanks to my colleague Matt Bellany over at what I'm hearing who who created this hero and villain franchise. I'm very excited to steal this idea from him. I think you're all going to love it. We are also going to publish a mega mailbag next week. So if you have any questions for me, feel free to email me on Laurenuk News and please do not DM me on Instagram with questions. It's really tough to parse through stuff there. I'm happy for you to respond to my like talk about Taylor Swift or whatever and her outfits and Travis Kelce's outfits, not Jason's. But ask the serious questions via email. I hope you all also had fun at your holiday parties. This week I threw my final Puck private dinner of the year in partnership with Glam Squad and Olaplex. So huge, huge thanks to Glam Squad CEO David Goldweitz, who I've known forever and we've been working with a lot at Puck and Olaplex CEO Amanda Baldwin, who I don't know if I've actually ever met, but knew a lot through Rachel Strugetz's reporting and she's a force in beauty and they made it happen for us. They also made my hair look amazing cause I got a blowout with Olaplex products and my hair will never look as good. My hair peaked on Tuesday because of these two companies. The dinner, as always, was off the record, but what I can tell you is that it was really fun. It's hard to do stuff like this in la. The thing people like about LA is that you don't have to leave your house. So what you need to do is you start it at 6. Everyone has a martini, some laughs, some good constructive conversations. So they feel like it was worth leaving the house and leaving their kids. And obviously there's no chica restaurant than Mr. Child's. It was, it was super. It was probably the prettiest dinner we've ever done. And like the people were all very. Everyone looked really good because many people got Glam Squad. I hope everyone who came had a great time and I look forward to seeing many of you next year at the numerous dinners we already have planned. But let's get going with Sally, who's been my seatmate at one of these dinners. And I there's no one I like talking to more about the business, so I think you'll enjoy it too. Sally Christison, welcome to Fashion People.
- [04:58]
Sally Christison
Thanks Lauren. Excited to be here.
- [05:01]
Lauren Sherman
Thank you for being here. What'd you have for breakfast this morning?
- [05:03]
Sally Christison
Two eggs always.
- [05:05]
Lauren Sherman
Do you have anything with them or are you.
- [05:09]
Sally Christison
I need a protein heavy diet and if I don't start my day with Eggs. I don't have a good day. O negative blood type. I think that's why.
- [05:17]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, interesting. You know, I have no idea what my blood type is.
- [05:21]
Sally Christison
Did you not find out when you had kids? I only found out when I had kids.
- [05:25]
Lauren Sherman
Maybe, but I just, I don't remember. I never. It's like one of those weird things that I can't retain it.
- [05:34]
Sally Christison
Yeah, I only did because I'm a universal donor. And so it was like imprinted on me when they found out my blood type that I need to donate blood.
- [05:44]
Lauren Sherman
Interesting. Okay, well, I also should be a universal donor. And we'll find out this information the next week. I'll try very hard. End of the year, exactly what I need to do. So you said you have a protein heavy diet, you're a founder. What's your kind of day like in terms of you have kids, you need energy. Walk me through a Sally day.
- [06:10]
Sally Christison
Oh, man. No two days are the same ever. When it comes to food. I have to start like with a hearty breakfast, but beyond that, I eat to sustain, so I'm eating on the go at all times. Like, I need food to power myself. I'll get pretty hangry. But food is very much the afterthought in my life. I do not cook. My husband provides all meals for our family and I try and carve out a day, a week where I'm on my computer if I can. I try and like, I try and keep Friday open so I can catch up and do emails every other day. I mean, no two days are the same.
- [06:48]
Lauren Sherman
So how did you end up on fashion People? So you own this, you run, you founded, you own this brand Argent, which is clothes for life and work, in particular you're known for. But how did you get into fashion? Because it's, it wasn't, you know, the typical fit story. And then you start a brand, you buy your collection out of Parsons or whatever. It's not, it's not that, not at all.
- [07:15]
Sally Christison
I, I came in very naively. I avoided starting this brand, to be honest. I'm an entrepreneur, like through and through. Grew up following, like going to work with my dad, so he is a Turkish man, started a rug store in South Carolina and to go to work with him. And this predated the Internet being the Internet. And I'd sit at this computer and like dream of having things to do with a stapler and a computer in my future life. Set up lemonade stands, sold horseshoe, horseshoe picture frames that I'd make, sold piggy banks starting at like the age of six. Always knew I wanted to start my own company, but I followed a pretty traditional path. Studied business, worked in banking, finance, got my mba, shifted to tech, worked in supply chain at Cisco. And throughout all of my experiences, I was so irritated how much of an afterthought the working woman is. And I just. My mom said I started complaining about it at the age of 18, like, looking for, you know, just a suit to have for at college, like, internship interviews. And it was just this persistent pain point. And Fast forward to 2015 years of not wanting to start this particular company. And then I read a study that showed that women are judged based on appearance, and they quantified the impact of what you wear on your bottom line. It's very significant. And I was like, fuck it. Like, I'm just going to quit my job. I see an opportunity to innovate the actual product. Like, there is a white space. It's a really easy, like, category, because working women are going in and they're so desperate and they're buying what's available, but what's available isn't sufficient, in my opinion. And I saw an opportunity to introduce, like, color and style, versatility, functionality, quality, and accessibility. So the goal with Argent was to create a, like, a single destination for working women of all industries, from women that are wearing denim and a sweater to women that are fully suited and everything in between with the brand. And I think that's what really got me excited about this particular opportunity. I saw an opportunity to celebrate professional women as I saw them, infuse them into the brand in a way that was very much not being done, has not been done, tell their stories and really redefine how we think of power in an effort to inspire the next generation of girls, I guess. Hence, Argent was born in 2016. And I think we've really been able to both solve the problem for our product perspective and give women confidence through the product, but also give confidence in tools to women through our editorial series and through our features and through, you know, the podcast and things that we're putting out in the world. So it's been very fun.
- [10:16]
Lauren Sherman
You have an amazing podcast that I was lucky enough to be a guest on. Everybody needs to listen to it, but. But, yeah, I mean, I have a million questions. One is, so I've followed the space for a long time, this sort of clothes for women who go to work and need to not. And as you said, some wear jeans and a sweater, and that's something we can get into more of the casualization of our culture. But this idea of, like, there really haven't been that many options. There's theory, which is great, but that's one option that's a, I think, almost $2 billion business at this point. But it's. It's one option and one way of dressing, and there really hasn't been much else. Like when we were younger, maybe H and M, you get a suit there, but, like, it's kind of junky. It's not like, good quality. Have you raised money? And the question I have, when you've done the. When you've pitched investors, there is a sort of limit to suiting for women or suiting generally. I mean, we look at Zenya, which is a great business, but, like, they're diversifying into more casual wear because the need to wear for more formal clothing and also the desire and also the requirement, like, great example is the talent agencies out here. Pre Covid, everyone wore a suit. Now no one wears a suit to CA and UTA and all these. I mean, some people do, but it's not required the way it was pre Covid. So it's been. It's interesting. I'm curious, when you went out to investors, I don't know if you shared, like, disclose. You don't have to disclose any of that stuff. But, like, what did you envision, like, being the scale of a business like this?
- [12:08]
Sally Christison
I mean, I have a million ways to answer this question. Early days, billion dollar opportunity. I think that actually remains, if I'm being quite honest. I think the industry has changed so significantly, but we are speaking to a working woman. We're evolving with the working woman, and we are meeting her needs, whether she's working from home or going into an office and being fully suited. We've done now two capsules with citizens of humanity. We have denim in our offer, and we're seeing that women are wearing our pieces to work and beyond. And so I think that. I think that we see a lot of opportunity in the product, but we're building so much more than that in our editorial arm as well. And I would say that's our unfair competitive advantage. I think in terms of suiting, not suiting, what we're really solving is like the. We're solving a problem for a woman that did not come up in fashion, does not consider herself fashionable, and her actual nightmare is to go through, like a wholesaler and try and piece together an option that's appropriate for her board meeting. For her, like being on stage for whatever it is. We are a one. Stop, stop. Solution where she knows that she's going to find something she feels great in, she looks great in. It's got a bit of an edge. And I think, yeah, traditional suit might be out at some of these places, but we're making them cool and different and giving you all the tools that you need to show up in these roles in a suit that is appropriate too. So I think that we're kind of doing a combination of things that allow for more upside in this opportunity. Pitching investors is like, God, that's like a whole podcast in and of itself. Early days, I remember some of the feedback that we got and I can't, I think I told you this, maybe I can't remember if we've talked about this, but in 2015 we raised it was one and a half million dollars under a convertible note instrument. It took me probably a year and a half to raise that amount of money. I remember that another company started by men who didn't even have like a good idea, the business is no longer around, had like a back of a napkin concept in apparel in a week raised the same amount of money. So I think there's absolute gender like inequity that happens in fundraising that we're all aware of. Layer on the fact that we're solving like a female specific problem in the apparel space. And I think that the, everyone wants to pour their money into tech because the upside is like rapid. The trajectory is, you know, generally aligned with like LPs in a fund. So the payoff happens in three to seven years if it's going to happen. And apparel is like longer term in terms of payoff, I would argue the upside is higher. So when you have success in apparel, it's much more straightforward and it's a, it's a degree of success. It's like it just once you're established, you kind of print money at a certain threshold. But the feedback that we got one was utility doesn't belong in women's clothing from a really like reputable male vc, which is so ironic because how many memes exist around pockets in women? We got the feedback that we've seen so many pitches for workwear brands like Yawn. Essentially, I would argue that the reason you're seeing so many pitches from working women is because it is a massive opportunity and the consumer is really disgruntled. And so, I mean, that was at the beginning of the journey. And since then we're now raising our Series B. So we just did a first close on our Series B round. Congrats. Thank you. And it's different now. I think I approach it differently, but it's, I think that we've hit product market fit. It's much more straightforward. We know what we would, we know how we're deploying the funds, it is a growth round, etc. But I think there is still, there's, there are still challenges if you're ever raising in your a woman and it's a female specific problem and it's apparel. So it's sort of this trifecta.
- [16:11]
Lauren Sherman
So you mentioned two things in there that I would like to unpack, as they say. One is this idea of being fashionable and being trendy and what I think you've done. And I'll bring up my, our friend Allison Eagle, who will be excited that she's getting a shout out. I think her title's like Chief Content Officer at Shondaland or something. But she mentioned you to me at some point before you and I met. And she was like, do you know Sally? I was like, we've been trying to meet for like a year and a half. And Allison is very cool and like a great human and doesn't want to look like crap, is very beautiful and all these things. But she's not like into fashion. Like, she's into looking good. She's like not into fashion. And she doesn't. But she also doesn't want to look like. She doesn't want to hire a personal stylist to tell her what to wear. She wants to like, wear stuff she likes. And I feel like you have somehow hit something where your stuff does not look trendy at all. It feels like out of the trend cycle. But it also has style and a flair, but, like, not so much that it would like, alienate anyone. And I'm just curious, like, how you were able to sort of hone that and figure it out. Because it's a very tricky thing. So many people try that and they, they miss. And then the business never takes off our product.
- [17:43]
Sally Christison
I mean, this is all thanks to our creative director. So I have never designed the product and I think that is one of the reasons that we have had success is because I recognize that fashion design is a skill that is honed over time. And it is something that just like I've spent, you know, decades now learning business, evolving my skill set, et cetera. I've always had a creative counterpart. Stephanie Soberville is our creative director. She has her own brand, heirloom as well. She just won the cfda. She did the Vogue Fashion Fund. She's the runner up. But she's, she is so talented and it's my, it's my favorite creative partner that I've had. She's been with us now for almost five years. But she has an ability to, I think, really thread that needle of like, who. Understanding who the Allisons of the world are. I would argue that Allison is the embodiment of the woman that we're dressing. Time constrained, very accomplished, wants to look great, wants someone to tell her what to wear. And once she puts it on, she like, she, she carries herself differently, but she doesn't want to invest any time in this, you know, and it's typically we're dressing a woman who oftentimes is like moving into a managerial role. So there are more demands at work and she's also starting a family and having kids potentially. And so it's like, I would argue the majority of women in the, in the world are our customer. They are not. They didn't grow up reading fashion magazines and studying Vogue and they're not paying attention. They're reading business publications and they're ambitious and their desire is to like, connect in a way that advances their career. And so I think that we're offering things that are nodding to what's happened, like a nod to what's happening in fashion. And it's an evolution from anything anyone's ever offered in this category that just makes you feel awesome. And I can't quite pinpoint what it is. And I think that's what Steph is so magical at. And I think we have pieces that we introduce, you know, seasonally that we're selling through quickly. But the business is really built on a classic offering of black and navy suiting. We want everyone to come to us for their first suit, for their core suits, and then build on top of that. But we're constantly tweaking things. And so I like, we just have if the fit is great, the quality is great and the design is ever evolving. And yeah, it's a single stop for a woman that once you acquire her, she doesn't leave you too.
- [20:26]
Lauren Sherman
Do you see more black or more navy? And if someone's asking for help on this, and maybe this is how we get into editorial, but what do you recommend? Because what I found out recently is that in Italy and in France, kind of black suit. No, it's too funeral.
- [20:45]
Sally Christison
I resent that so much. It's like 50, 50 for us and our numbers. So I think it depends on complexion too. Some people just black is very harsh on them and Navy can be stunning on certain people. It can, like, really make a blue eye pop. I mean, me personally, I'm very New York, and then I wear a lot of black. Uh, it's just easy.
- [21:09]
Lauren Sherman
I agree.
- [21:10]
Sally Christison
And I need easy. I'm our customer.
- [21:12]
Lauren Sherman
I love your blazer, by the way. It's great.
- [21:14]
Sally Christison
Thank you. Thank you, Navy. Today, it's our crew neck double breasted blazer, which I love. But these are the types of pieces where I feel like Stephanie's, like, evolving the pieces to the point where they appeal to, like, Aleandra.
- [21:26]
Lauren Sherman
Yes.
- [21:27]
Sally Christison
And then full spectrum to Linda, who's a lawyer in Oklahoma City. What fashion tends to do is ignore the fact that Linda is going to work every single day wearing a suit. And so it, like, comes and goes. And brands will offer a suit and then they'll take it away. And then they'll offer a suit and take it away. We're going to always be on that offering.
- [21:46]
Lauren Sherman
Totally. I feel it strongly and I can see it in what you do. And what I admire about it so much is the fact that you were able to nail it. Because most. Most. There are a lot of people who want to do this that just never.
- [22:05]
Frankenstein Narrator
My makeup told his tale, and I will tell you mine. The New York Times raves. Frankenstein is the movie Guillermo del Toro was born to make, to be lost.
- [22:15]
Sally Christison
And to be found.
- [22:16]
Frankenstein Narrator
That is the lifespan of love. Now nominated for 11 Critics Choice Awards and five Golden Globe Awards, including best Director, Guillermo del Toro and the best picture of the year. I am not something. I am someone. Frankenstein for your consideration. Now playing in Celeste theaters and on Netflix. Rated R under 17. Not admitted without adult.
- [22:35]
Draymond Green
What's up? It's Draymond Green. I'm back for my 14th NBA season. And my podcast, the Draymond Green show is back, too. This season, I'm breaking down games, reacting to the biggest NBA stories, and sitting down with teammates, rivals and culture shapers. And trust me, I'm not holding back on the court or on the mic. Two new episodes every week, new segments, big conversations, real basketball talk for the real hoop heads. Listen to and follow the Draymond Green show. Wherever you get your podcast. We're back. We're better. Let's get it.
- [23:08]
Lauren Sherman
So let's talk a little bit about color and how you. Because obviously the bread and butter, the margin driver is going to be the black and navy in terms of suiting at least. But, like, how do you think about. How do you all approach color? And why was color important to you early on, especially when you started to, like, engage publicly because you dress a lot of public figures. And I think, like, your sense of color and your use of color is another really refreshing thing about the brand.
- [23:40]
Sally Christison
Thank you. Yeah. It's funny because we started, we launched in 2016, and I'd say, like, 80% of our buy was black and navy, and then 20%, all of Cobalt red. So, like elevated neutrals, those always do well for us. But we blew out of the color. We were honestly one of the first brands to put bold colors and suiting. Nobody else was doing it except as a one off. And it really has become the identity of the brand. There's always an audience for a bold color, and it's a really good vehicle for, like, marketing vehicle. It's a really good brand building opportunity for the women that we dress who need to reinforce their personal brand where they're going on a stage. And one of the easiest ways to do that is through dress. And, you know, women will come to us to dress in their company colors, to dress for a certain conference, to dress for a cause they care about, et cetera. But I do think the epiphany for us in that first collection that we did was how. How rabid the customer base was for color. And so that's really become, I think, integral into what we do. Where Stephanie, our creative director, comes in is that she knows how to take a color and put it into the right silhouette and the right style in a way that works. And I think that it is impossibly hard to get it right. And she's so talented that she gets it right every time. It can get to a clown, like place really quickly. And so I think she'll take these, like, soft pinks, but put them in more of an androgynous suit or like a salmon, you know, things like that. Do them in a more relaxed fashion way. And I think that that's, you know, that's been a really important vehicle for us as we've been building the brand, and there's certainly an audience for it. And I think we've slowly pushed our consumer out of her comfort zone with the blacks and navies. Again, still very important for a business perspective, but the color is really integral to what we've built.
- [25:38]
Lauren Sherman
How often are, like, women buying the women that need to wear suits every day? Are they buying like, a few a year? Like, is this. Do you. Do you have, like, a very high repeat customer? I assume so.
- [25:53]
Sally Christison
Very high. I would say once we capture a customer, she is more. This is one of the Most loyal customers. She's hard to capture, but once you capture her, she doesn't leave you. Our lifetime value is very high. Repeat purchases. We usually see her come in over three times a year. Her, the way she approaches dressing typically is she comes in for two big shops and then she'll come online for a couple of pieces that catch her attention. She likes to come in and have that styling support. She likes the versatility of our pieces. That's where denim has been very additive, I'll say, because she's always tacky. Like this art. This is a woman who doesn't want to go onto a denim site and try and find the piece of, like, the jean that is work appropriate of the hundred options presented to her. She wants to come to Argent and say, oh, these are like the three washes in a work appropriate, appropriate style. Easy add on to go with my. My suit and, you know, I can mix and match with this capsule. It's very granimals, I would say, the way that she's shopping.
- [26:53]
Lauren Sherman
How did you end up doing the collaboration with Citizens in particular? And did you seek that out? Did they come to you? Because it's interesting. I just did a little item yesterday about how all the luxury brands are doing denim, like, hardcore now. Like it was in every single Runway show. It's been in all the pre fall collections. Like, denim is never. It's been in luxury for a long time. But, like, I think right now, the margin on a pair of jeans for one of these luxury brands is so big that they're really taking advantage of it. But it also has become, I don't know, a bigger part of our wardrobes. Living in Los Angeles, I feel a little bit skewed because, of course I wear jeans every single day. But I'm curious, like, how you thought about it and how you've been working it into the main concept.
- [27:47]
Sally Christison
Yeah. So I'll say Amy Williams, the CEO of Citizens of Humanity, is one of my favorite people in the industry and has been a mentor of mine, and we have a great relationship. When I started Argent, part of my perspective was that the modernization of the of workwear just opened up this. It's it. It created an opportunity for women to misstep in terms of wardrobing in tech. And so we didn't really have models of, like, how to dress. You had Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Elizabeth Holmes, Sheryl Sandberg, also not right. But it was very confusing. And so we started wearing jeans, but then we were emulating what men were wearing. So I Saw a lot of women wear like hoodies and jeans. Jeans were accepted, but it was very confusing. And so I think women were showing up day after day feeling not like their best selves, just trying because they weren't dressing the part. But I knew that I wanted, like I would wear jeans with a blazer. I think that's like a really straightforward, very easy uniform. But I knew that I wanted denim in our assortment eventually and I knew that I didn't want to produce it myself. And so Covid, as you can imagine, was not the best of times for our brand. And during COVID we were sort of ideating like, what does post Covid look like? And I was very bullish on this opportunity. I knew this consumer would come back and come back in a big way. And that is. That has been very true. Yeah. And so Amy and I connected and I told her that I really wanted denim, but I didn't want to source denim. I wanted custom denim for our consumer. And so we started with an a Goldie line that we designed together, Agoldie for Argent, which is also part of the Citizens of Humanity umbrella that was so successful that fast forward a couple of years later, Amy reached out with the idea of partnering in a larger way with Citizens of Humanity because she was seeing the women that we were dressing and she was really liking, I think, you know, our positioning. And we launched earlier this year in the spring, we launched our first capsule. It blew out. So we launched our second capsule this fall. And it's just this ongoing relationship that we have that makes all the sense in the world for a million different reasons. In my opinion. It's how this woman's dressing. If she goes to Neiman's or Nordstrom or wherever, she's grabbing an Argent blazer and a citizen's jeans. So why not make it even easier for her? That's really what we're both trying to do.
- [30:14]
Lauren Sherman
You know, she is just so smart. And I think the smartest thing about this is like the fit of both companies is so good and the a Goldie, all that citizens the fit is the best fit of, of new denim that you can get, really. And you just see it that it sort of becomes the fallback. Like you have to go to them because they do the best job. And that's something that in that market in particular, that's so crowded where your market is less crowded, especially for at the high quality end, that it's interesting. But going back to Covid, kind of a two pronged question, a, how did you do It. And B, I think we're only. My new thing. I've been saying this to people the last three weeks, is that we're only in post Covid now.
- [31:07]
Sally Christison
Oh, sad. Yeah, I think you're right. I think that's right.
- [31:11]
Lauren Sherman
But speak to that.
- [31:12]
Sally Christison
Talk about.
- [31:13]
Lauren Sherman
Well, I'm just. I just think we thought we were post Covid and every, like, life changed, but now it's really going back to normal. Like, I think I felt it personally in my life of decisions that I've been making about how to live my life, that I'm like, oh, now it's back. Because I thought that I had changed my life and I had this whole new life. And the reality is that was still in Covid and that wasn't my real life. Now my real life is here. And I think this back to work thing is really. Everybody's going back four days. So a lot of people five now, even in New York and LA is different because it's. I don't know if they'll ever do that because of the writers room culture, but there really is back to work now. So I'm sure. Which is great for you, but I'm curious, what was Covid like? And how did the brand evolve to this point where people are. They don't need as many clothes as they used to, but they do need clothes again, like, real close.
- [32:20]
Sally Christison
Oh, my God, so many directions. I want to take this. 2020. Let's see. March 2020. I was eight and a half months pregnant. The business was coming off like our best months. We were getting ready to raise our Series A. I mean, and that was a good time in consumer. I'm sure you remember, everyone was crushing, like, thriving.
- [32:37]
Lauren Sherman
Totally. Yes. In. In a really false way where I was like, people do not hire a bunch of people. Like, this is all I could think about. They're all like, we're hiring 40 new people. I'm like, you're insane. This is gonna go away in two years. You all know it. But this is the weird thing about this industry is that, like, no one thinks ahead. They think, okay, two quarters.
- [33:00]
Sally Christison
There's a lot to unpack about the fashion industry in general, which we haven't touched. Which I have enjoyed coming in as a business person in fashion because, like, a lot of antiquated, poor practices. But. But 2020, so my husband's the head of marketing at Argent. I remember sitting in the office eight and a half months pregnant and, like, early signs of COVID and the world's about to shut down and we were aggressive. I remember going on these long walks, trying to figure out, like, do we get out of our leases? Do we furlough the team? Do we go? Do we react aggressively? Because the writing's on the wall for us. And this is at a time where every brand was putting up signs like, we'll be back in two weeks. You know, instead of doing that, I am probably more strategic. But I. I negotiated out of our leases and was allowed out of our leases and went as lean as I possibly could, and I stopped production. And so I was able to preserve our cash. And I got deals that I wouldn't have gotten had I waited at all. Because once landlords realized the implications of COVID they were not allowing people to break leases. We were just aggressive. And I think that was partially a result of my personal situation, too. Second kid coming May 2020. And so that was what we did. And then we packed up and we moved home. And we lived with my parents during COVID And we launched. Yeah, we launched a campaign in partnership with Supermajority, which is a nonprofit organization centered on the power of women as a voting block. And we made this hot pink suit, and in one day, we made our year. And we were able to survive because that campaign went viral. I don't know if you remember it, but it was just like lightning in a bottle. We had celebrities and business leaders and athletes all posting in our hot pink. And it was at a time where everyone was living on their phone and we were all so disconnected. And that was the only way we had to, like, connect with one another. And it was like Instagram candy the suit. And that, I think, gave our team the energy to keep going. And then Fast forward to 2021. We just started seeing industries and cities start to return. We moved in New York, like, the, quote, tail end of COVID and just started rebuilding. And we've been trying to catch up to demand ever since. So when you talk about how we're just coming out of COVID my version of that is, for the first time, I feel like we've gotten our arms around the business and it's taken that long for us to catch up. We've had so much residual, like, impact and just trying to scale to meet the demand. Because coming out of COVID everyone in fashion told me that suiting was dead forever. And I'll tell you what's not dead forever is suiting. It's been trending since we came back. It's projected to continue trending. Women are wearing it on the red Carpet. And they're wearing it into casual workplaces with a sneaker and they're wearing it every which way. And we've just been, I think, because we had the luxury of going lean and stepping back and spending time on it and we really should have shuttered the business probably. But I'm so committed to this consumer, our mission, everyone involved in what we're building. But really, I just think women deserve what we're building. I refuse to give up on it. And we're benefiting, I guess, from that commitment now. And it's been so fun because we've been able to, I think, just be perfectly positioned with the right team, the right timing, the right product, the right branding, the best community of women that continues to grow. And now it just feels like we're. We've been able to move out of the art of building a brand and now into like the science of building a brand.
- [36:34]
Lauren Sherman
So what, Sally, we should really just like do like an eight hour off site.
- [36:40]
Sally Christison
I mean, that's awesome. Don't you think?
- [36:42]
Lauren Sherman
Feel like we should do that sometime?
- [36:44]
Sally Christison
Do you know, my dream is like I call it, my working name is Camp Urgent and you need to do it. I, I agree. My actual dream, I will do it. It's like our work friends dinner. Yes. Expanded, because I just want to talk.
- [36:59]
Lauren Sherman
To you about all this stuff. Like I want to talk to you about manufacture. I don't want to talk about tariffs. Let's not talk about tariffs.
- [37:05]
Sally Christison
But I have good news on tariffs. For me, it's. They've benefited us. I'm like the only person that will.
- [37:10]
Lauren Sherman
Why did it benefit you?
- [37:12]
Sally Christison
We're paying more. It's the stupidest like thing on the planet. No business leader is going to tell you it's not the dumbest move, but it's crushed our competition. We are an entirely direct business and we manufacture predominantly in Portugal and the US and so I would say that the impact on us has been like negligible compared to what it's been for our competitors. We haven't had to compromise on quality. We haven't had to really raise our pricing. And we have a customer that is a bit price insensitive, but for all of these things. And we're not locked into wholesale pricing. We've seen our competition downgrade. Every aspect of what they're offering is. And so it's just driven women to our brand. But yeah, that's the only thing I'll say about Taros. They're stupid, but they're working for us.
- [37:57]
Lauren Sherman
Well, here's the thing that I think I keep hearing across the board. I just met with this amazing jewelry brand that I don't know how to pronounce the name of it. So I'm gonna look it up right now.
- [38:10]
Sally Christison
Who is it?
- [38:10]
Lauren Sherman
Horse and Brew.
- [38:12]
Sally Christison
Have you heard of them? No. No.
- [38:14]
Lauren Sherman
It's basically like, it's these two LA guys. It's like a lot. It's like, like, people who wear Argent definitely wear this. It's like really, like really wealthy people buy this stuff. It's sort of like not like rock and roll, but not as rock and rolls, like Chrome Hearts meets Chanel or something. Like, it's like really nice stuff. They haven't ever done any press and now they're. They opened a new store. I went to see it and. And we were just talking about, like, people with money are still spending money and they, they're happy to spend if the value is there. If they. If they think it's bullshit, they're done. But now, like, if you can show the value, even if it's crazy expensive, they're down to. To buy it. But you have to show value. And I think that's why a brand like yours, that has a lot of value, you can charge a little bit more and people aren't gonna, like, have a conniption.
- [39:12]
Sally Christison
Well, I. What we're watching happen right now is brands 3x their pricing. I think. I think some of it's artificial and some of it's real.
- [39:20]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [39:21]
Sally Christison
There are companies who've, like, invested heavily in building factories in China and they just got crushed. So, like, I get it. But there are also luxury brands that are now trying to charge so much money for one blazer or whatever it is. And we have customers that could afford any price point that are absolutely trading down to brands like Argent because of the value. I think you, like, hit the nail on the head. They don't want to feel like they're. They're being had, you know?
- [39:46]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, yeah. It's so true. What else did I. There have like 8,000 things I want to ask you about, but one is about this, like you mentioned, just observing the fashion industry, like, coming out. First of all, how did you figure out manufacturing? Did you hire someone immediately who, like, did you know that sourcing and manufacturing would be like, how much did you study how the fashion industry works before making this pitch deck and trying to get into it?
- [40:16]
Sally Christison
I spent six months on research, meeting with anyone and everyone. It was just all about networking and learning. Eventually that informed a financial model that I Put together, which really becomes your business plan, if we're being honest.
- [40:32]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [40:32]
Sally Christison
And I managed every penny of the business. And I think, you know, I spent years being that close to every aspect of the business. I still am. I think every founder touches literally every aspect of the business.
- [40:41]
Lauren Sherman
Do you get the Shopify alert when someone makes.
- [40:45]
Sally Christison
Yes, I do.
- [40:46]
Lauren Sherman
You still do.
- [40:47]
Sally Christison
I was just with. Okay. As someone who I feel like you should know if you don't. Monica Padman. And she turned it off. Oh, my God.
- [40:54]
Lauren Sherman
We've never met. We've DMed.
- [40:56]
Sally Christison
You should be friends.
- [40:57]
Lauren Sherman
We've DMed. I really. I know. I was talking about her last night with someone with another mutual. And I was like, I do need to actually meet her. She's good friends with Maddy Khan, who I'm good friends with.
- [41:08]
Sally Christison
And Allison Ruman. Yes.
- [41:10]
Lauren Sherman
And I missed Allison's party here because. And Monica was there, and I was with someone else who was with. I was with Sofia Rossi, who was talking about Monica, and I was like, I really need to meet Monica.
- [41:22]
Sally Christison
Monica's amazing. I feel like you should just have her on. Just have her on.
- [41:26]
Lauren Sherman
I would love to. That's such a good idea. I'll have her on one of the news days, and she can comment because she loves fashion. Yeah. Maybe I'll do it when there's a rose story. A story about the real. Because she loves the real.
- [41:36]
Sally Christison
Well, I. Yeah, she does. But I bring her up because I had my phone at dinner, and I mean, I'm just getting alerts all the time. It doesn't make sense for me to have this on still. Yeah. It is an actual drug. She's like, turn it off right now. You need to turn it off. I refuse to turn it off. I will never turn it off.
- [41:51]
Lauren Sherman
I feel like I would be like that, too. It's so fun.
- [41:54]
Sally Christison
It's amazing. It's such a drug. It's such a drug. And, like, we dress such cool women, and I don't even think I know who we're dressing, but it'll. Like. We dress senators, and they're just coming on your site and buying from you. You'll see these names, and they're like icons in some capacity. And so it's fun to kind of drop in every now and again, and you'll catch some names of founders or, you know, these women that really excite me.
- [42:24]
Lauren Sherman
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- [46:10]
Sally Christison
God, I have so many opinions. I am so grateful to be where we are now, but it's been through, like, having very thick skin and having to endure a lot of just strange behavior. Early days, it was things as simple as, can I wire you money? And, no, we only take checks. You know, like, it's just. That's, like, one example of a bajillion of, like, where things don't make sense.
- [46:33]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [46:34]
Sally Christison
A lot of our partners don't necessarily have good business acumen, and sometimes we'll do things that, like, negatively affect them and you. You know, so it's like, it's just trying to overcome that, like, I think behind the scenes and really bring people on that understand what you're building or committed to what you're building and are willing to partner with you on things like payment terms and, you know, pricing stuff like that. The actual industry itself, it's very. There's a lot of. Oh, that's just how it's done.
- [47:08]
Lauren Sherman
Yes.
- [47:09]
Sally Christison
It's. It's very fun to come in and be a bit of a maverick and be like, well, that's okay. We're just, like, not gonna do that. It does not make sense.
- [47:18]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [47:19]
Sally Christison
And it's also very. It can be very exclusive. And clicky.
- [47:23]
Lauren Sherman
Yes.
- [47:24]
Sally Christison
And snooty in a way that feels almost like bullying. Mean girly.
- [47:28]
Lauren Sherman
And you're the opposite.
- [47:30]
Sally Christison
Correct. And our brand is inclusive. Like, our brand is meant to be inclusive. And I want women from fashion connecting with women from tech connecting with women from politics, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. There's so much value in that. What I appreciate so much about fashion is, like, this is. I don't like anyone. I think that ignores the role fashion plays in their day to Day is naive. There are a group of people here that are so unbelievably talented, that really are for me. Like with Stephanie, for example, she's making clothes that make me feel better every day, that make me feel like myself, that make me feel comfortable and confident, and, like, I wish that for everyone. And I think that is such a gift. But I think it can be a bit siloed and exclusive in a way that's unproductive, because I think that there's value to be had externally from the business world or, you know, culturally from other people that it's not always allowed in. And I also think fashion can actually. I think this is what I love about Puck and about you. I think y' all are willing to, like, say it. Like, say it how it is and how you see it without everyone having to tell you that that's okay. I think sometimes fashion can be late and, like, define, like, committing to something.
- [48:44]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [48:44]
Sally Christison
In a way that's not at all leading.
- [48:46]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. And I think you have, like, a lot of respect for fashion, that sometimes people in the fashion industry don't have respect for it. And I think you're the. You use the word inclusive, and that's, like, such a. But your brand really is inclusive, and there is something about it. Look, there's great. A great thing about exclusivity and, like, stuff being rarefied. There's a quality to that, but there is also a. You're just missing out. You're missing out. You're missing out on. And I think that is the thing that frustrates me about it, is, like, you're right. It's like, everybody thinks the same thing, and if you're not on board with that, you're a jerk. Like, I. I probably told you this, but I loved Chanel. I'd be curious if you liked it, because it was. There's, like, a lot of suiting in it. But I loved it, and I thought it was great. And after I wrote about it and I thought I, like, did good business analysis of it, too. Like, I'm not just like, I love these clothes. People were really pissed off at me. They were like, you're. You're not being the. The first Matthew Chanel collection. This one, I think they were like, okay, she's.
- [49:54]
Sally Christison
She's. This is what.
- [49:55]
Lauren Sherman
How she feels. I'm not gonna get mad, but people were like. Because I. I do tend to be critical, and I was still critical, but I also really loved it, and I thought that was important. And I think there's Just so much judgment of where you land on things in fashion, which seems like why this is all emotional stuff that it does affect how people perceive you and it does affect these things and it is serious. But it's also should be something that's enjoyed and appreciated. And I think there are a lot of people who are in the industry are almost too jaded to appreciate what it is. And I feel like you have a really good outside perspective and that is now inside, like you're in the middle of it now and there is an opportunity. When you mentioned the doing things differently, Yael Aflalo is a lot like that. She is very like, well we're not gonna do it like that because it's dumb. And look, she had a very successful business and now is building another success. Well, she's had three. And I think it's amazing to see someone like that who's been in it for 30, well not 30, 15, 20 years and still have that attitude. Because so many people fall into the like, okay, well Everybody else has 30% wholesale we're going to do that or 40% or we're going to sell to these people even though they're never going to get pay us the whole amount. And to be able to have the perspective of this is insane. I'm not doing this is the only way the industry is going to change.
- [51:28]
Sally Christison
Change. It's also interesting because we are doing something for our consumer that I've seen every single day and I've seen the impact of it grow. I've seen our business grow at a clip that like is unmatched honestly in the industry right now. Like our growth year, every year is significant and going into next year it's going to be significant again. And it's a weird time for a lot of brands. And so I think that I have such conviction in our offering and what we're delivering to our customer and I know that like the right people in fashion appreciate it and are part of what we're building. And I've seen a lot of people come around and I've seen a lot of things in the last decade. I'll say. And some of the best advice I've ever gotten is in business it's good to have a short term memory and I do subscribe to that.
- [52:16]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [52:17]
Sally Christison
So I think that in building an inclusive brand and in, in working on gender equity, all boats very much rise with the tide. So the more people that we can have of involved in what we're building and subscribing to our message and like advocating and advancing women, the better off we are. And the product serves as sort of a physical reminder of our mission and everything that we stand for. And so our goal really is to bring in as many people as possible. And you know, we've, we've had relationships evolve with individuals and with wholesalers and with media. You know, I've seen a lot.
- [52:58]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I mean, the media part is interesting. I bet people ignored you when you started.
- [53:06]
Sally Christison
Not everyone.
- [53:07]
Lauren Sherman
I mean, you're very well connected. I know you had stuff quick, like the right people. Laura Brown didn't ignore you, but like Laura Brown favorite.
- [53:15]
Sally Christison
I see her on Tuesday. I love her so much. But she's a great example of someone that's like I have. She's confident. I think it comes down to confidence. A lot of times she understands what we're building and she has since the second that we met. And when we met, Argent was not what Argent is now at all.
- [53:29]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [53:30]
Sally Christison
And I, and I've had people bet against me that have come back around and I've had, you know, like it's. It is what it is.
- [53:38]
Lauren Sherman
Well, when you make something good people do and, and know how to execute and like market it and all of that, like you need everything. But if the product is good and you get the other stuff right, it can, it can break through. And also you just have. You have such a clear idea of what you want to do and so many people don't. And that kind of comes to. The last thing I want to talk about is this editorial thing. So you have. It's very. I've written and talked a lot about content and commerce. I worked at Lucky magazine for a year and I've seen different things like retailers try to launch magazines. Now to porter launch a magazine, my friends Claire Mazer and Erica Cirrulo had this whole concept of a kind where it was like really story driven products that they ran for like 15 years and now they're running this. Have you met them?
- [54:31]
Sally Christison
Actually, I don't think so.
- [54:33]
Lauren Sherman
You need to connect with them because, you know, they have this romance novel they're building like the A24 of romance. It's called 831 Stories. Yes, yes.
- [54:44]
Sally Christison
Oh, I want to know them.
- [54:45]
Lauren Sherman
Okay, I'll do the intro after this. You have to do stuff together because it's the perfect. It's really, really good. But anyway, they are very interested in content and commerce. I've seen it work at places like Tory Burch. She has invested a lot of money in editorial. That has nothing to do with like they link sometimes to product, but it's really, there's a separate team. They work with marketing, but it's not marketing. And she, no matter what happens to that company, she keeps these people. And I, the reason I think it's been successful in my mind is because like, like Tori was able to transform the kind of perception of her business. And a lot of that had to do with the fact that she had this strong editorial. But like the con, we're such a conversion based, ROI based culture. You can't always see the editorial converting. Like sometimes you can. But I'm curious, like A, why did you invest heavily in editorial and do you have so many different things that you do? And B, like what has the sort of results bit?
- [55:50]
Sally Christison
If I had to say right now what our unfair competitive advantage is, it is our editorial arm and it's. It's been something that I wanted to do since day one. Argent really was born. The. The consistent thing like for us has been our mission, which is removing barriers for women. We did not start with an editorial arm because to like I thought it was scope creep and I really wanted to focus on the individual that we were serving the product and getting that. And so we iterated on that for years. And then finally we got to a place where I was like, okay, it feels like time for us to hire an editorial director. Gina Marinelli. She's amazing.
- [56:30]
Lauren Sherman
She's awesome.
- [56:31]
Sally Christison
She's really special. And we brought Gina on and it is an investment. And I think the luxury of being a founder led company and having values aligned investors is that I can make decisions that aren't directly tied to roi. And it's what I touched on earlier, which is it's an art what I'm building and to get to the revenue that we've gotten to it. It is a trade off between like these decisions that aren't like I can just make choices that I want to.
- [57:08]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [57:09]
Sally Christison
And bringing women into our storytelling was so obvious to me and I think that it probably did convert in a way too because women see themselves in other professional women more than they do in models. I think that we did a lookbook shoot yesterday. There's a, like there's a role for that as well because these women really know how to photograph and that's a whole. That's an industry in and of itself. But I'm so deeply committed to our mission and our mission is the celebration of these women that we're featuring the storytelling around these women and giving future leaders and girls and creators you Know, like, something to aspire to. And showing them different forms of work is, like, that's my lifeblood. And I think just like the. The vision 10 years ago is something that we're now just starting to realize where it's like, how do we bring all these women that we've touched in some capacity for years together and put them in a room in a way that relationships form and live outside of Argent? And now we have our podcast. We have our Work Friends. Work Friends is the podcast. This gets confusing, but Work Friends is also our marquee editorial series where we photograph women, we storytell around them, we create video assets, and we dedicate, like, a week every year to, like, featuring these women individually. I. I just think it's, like, so integral to the brand. But what it's done for us is reinforced loyalty with the customers that we're dressing. It's created more access points. So for people that want to be involved in the brand, it's created another channel through which they could come in through. Yeah. So it. It could be like, I've been wanting to dress. I don't know who an example would be, but let's say I've been wanting to dress this woman forever, and then her team reaches out because she wants to be on the podcast, or she now wants to be on Work Friends. It's a fun way to bring people in, and it gives us more levers. I think, from a business perspective, that now reinforces our goal of growing the company as well. It's not a great answer, but. But it's really fun.
- [59:30]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. And I also think, like, look, I think a lot of people who do what you do are actually really. And are good at it, are good editors. And I think that's the thing. Like, it's about point of view. It's about clarity, and it's about curiosity and, like, those things together. And you have all of that, and that comes out like, you want to do Work Friends, you want to bring people together. You want to have these amazing dinners. You want to like it. I think that you see that the only reason to do this is to, like, have all of it, because if you just. It wouldn't be so fun. Like, you're obviously having a great time.
- [60:13]
Sally Christison
It is so fun. We literally study women's work. Like, that is our job. Gina and I will sit in my office and, like, we're trying to put together Work Friends classes, or we're trying to, like, you know, figure out what story we haven't told, what industry we haven't really like. Like touch jet and we just get to learn about awesome women and they're in, like, there's so many cool women to feature and I geek out about that. Like, that's my happy place. And it's such a gift because we get a front row seat to these awesome women that are doing unbelievable work. And I think there are themes that have been consistent throughout these conversations too, with these women that are benefiting the up and comers. Like, our podcast is predominantly listened to by like 20 and 30 year olds, you know, who are hungry for like, tools and are hungry for these raw conversations that aren't. They're not getting access to.
- [61:08]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, yeah, that's. It's awesome. It's so inspiring. And Sally, congrats on everything and for making, you know, persevering and getting through it because it's not easy. I remember meeting or seeing Sarah gets in Tuttle and she was early on the Argentine board and early on the Argent train. But I think, like, I've seen many brands try to launch in this space and not work and have the right intention, but just not clear. And so I just. Hats off. It's really cool and I'm so glad that we're work friends now because you're amazing. It's been so inspiring to get to know you the last last few months.
- [61:55]
Sally Christison
It's funny. Well, first of all, everyone should listen to you on our podcast because your story is awesome. No, your story is awesome. But we left and I told Gabby who introduced us. I was like, gabby cats. Gabby cats. As I'm pretty sure Lauren and I are best friends now, whether she knows it or not.
- [62:13]
Lauren Sherman
No, I felt similarly. I was like, oh, my God, she's so great. And I also. It's like we are all so busy and it was a example of like, if a bunch of people tell you you need to meet someone, just do it. Even though, like, we tried so many times and it was really hard. But it's worth the effort. If people you trust say, you need to meet someone, make every effort to because I'm so glad we met and can chat and are gonna do this off site soon.
- [62:44]
Sally Christison
Thank you. I can't wait for our off site. It worked out just the way it was supposed to. I'm so grateful to you. You know, I'm like the biggest fan of you and P. I mean, Sally. Yeah, thank you.
- [62:55]
Lauren Sherman
Well, this was so great. Congrats on everything and we'll talk soon for sure. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck Co Founder John Kelly, executive Editor Ben Landy and Director of Editorial Operations Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.
- [63:27]
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