Loading summary
Transcript123 lines
- [00:00]
Chumba Casino Advertiser
Attention sports enthusiasts. Keep the adrenaline pumping and elevate your game day with Chumba Casino. It's completely free to play, no purchase necessary. Whether you're cheering from the stands, on the move or relaxing at home, Chumba Casino brings the thrill of social casino directly to your fingertips. Experience the ultimate social casino adventure with reels of casino style games offering hundreds of exciting options to choose from and fresh new releases every week. There's always something new and thrilling to explore. From action packed social slots and classic blackjack to engaging bingo and solitaire, the fun never stops. Plus, enjoy generous daily login bonuses and a fantastic free welcome bonus to kickstart your social gaming journey. Dive into the excitement, discover a world where you can play for your chance to redeem some serious prizes and have a blast along the way. Don't miss out. What are you waiting for? Join now and immerse yourself in non stop fun and adventure with Chamba Casino. Get in on the action today@chambaccasino.com and make every day a Chamba Day. No purchase necessary. VGW Group Void War Prohibited by law.
- [00:59]
DSW Advertiser
18/ DNC supply Where'd you get those shoes? Easy. They're from DSW. Because DSW has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now. You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour, the boots that turn grocery aisles into runways, and all the styles that show off the many sides of you from daydreamer to multitasker and everything in between. Because you do it all in really great shoes. Find a shoe for every you at your dsw store or dsw.com foreign.
- [01:35]
Lauren Sherman
Welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line sheet and today with me on the show is New York Times reporter Jacob Gallagher. We're talking Men's Fashion Week, Couture and so much more. Hey everyone. Hope you had a great weekend. I am back in la. It has rained. We are all cheering this week on Line Sheet I checked in on Phoebe Filo Ltd. Provided some intel regarding an interesting partnership between Elle magazine and Substack, and also have an update on how Trump's newly civil relationship with the fashion industry is evolving. Sarah Shapiro did some work for all of us and investigated why Taylor Swift is suddenly a logomaniac. There's so much more. Check it out. Until then, enjoy the of Jacob Jacob Gallagher welcome back to Fashion People.
- [02:38]
Jacob Gallagher
Happy to be here. It's been some time. I I know I have a new job from the last last time I Realized. Yeah. But. But no, I'm glad to be here. Thank you for. For thinking of me and. And. Yeah, let's do it.
- [02:51]
Lauren Sherman
Happy to have you. I know all of your fans are going to be very excited that you're back.
- [02:55]
Jacob Gallagher
No, no, no, no, no. They. I don't. My five fans out there. The. But yeah, I'm glad to be back talking with you.
- [03:04]
Lauren Sherman
So let's get going. We have a lot to cover. You've been in Europe for how long at this point?
- [03:08]
Jacob Gallagher
I left last Thursday, so I've been here for, like a week and a half.
- [03:13]
Lauren Sherman
It's not too bad.
- [03:14]
Jacob Gallagher
It's not too bad. The shrinking of Milan in the kind of decade that I've covered this and that I've been going to Milan, you know, has kind of taken some out of the schedule. At least out of the, like, volume of the schedule. It's really the same number of days. I just don't do Pitti Uomo or I didn't do Pitti Uomo this season.
- [03:36]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [03:37]
Jacob Gallagher
But it's nothing compared to women's, though. I have to come back for women's in just a month, so.
- [03:42]
Lauren Sherman
You don't know how happy I am that you're gonna be there for women's.
- [03:47]
Jacob Gallagher
I just. I feel.
- [03:48]
Lauren Sherman
So are you gonna do London, too?
- [03:50]
Jacob Gallagher
I will not do London.
- [03:51]
Lauren Sherman
I'm doing London this time.
- [03:53]
Jacob Gallagher
More power to you.
- [03:55]
Lauren Sherman
You know, I love to suffer, evidently.
- [03:58]
Jacob Gallagher
You know, I'm ready for Milan in particular, because, you know, so many of those Italian brands just have completely moved their men's over to the women's show. So that at least will be a real journey through what those brands are doing. But, you know, I think the Paris portion of the schedule will be perhaps the most interesting for me because that's primarily going to women's shows, which is something that I've really not ever done before. But I'm intrigued.
- [04:29]
Lauren Sherman
Well, we don't need to get into the history of Jacob or all of that, but I think one of the reasons I like following your work is you are a writer who can talk about both and write about both. You understand women's clothing as well. Probably not as well, but I think in this same way, I can talk about menswear and understand it. Some people are more binary, but you can mix. And I'm curious to see, especially for you, how the dynamics at the women's shows are very different. It's very different than it was even 10 years ago, where none of this stuff really matters now, like, you go to the shows and you're kind of like, this doesn't matter. But there is a different vibe at the women's shows versus the men's. I much prefer going to the men's shows and I don't go to a ton, but, like, it's just. I loved going to Peti Uoma. I went a few times. Like, there's like a really good energy, whereas the women's shows, there's more of a nervous energy. So I'm curious how you feel at the end of it, because by the end I'm usually like, get me the fuck out of here. I never want to come back.
- [05:39]
Jacob Gallagher
I got a taste of that last night at the Peter Copping's debut for lan Vaughn, which was full of every women's editor that I truly could not name. And the energy in the room was just. I mean, obviously the energy in the room was different because that was a debut and that was kind of the big, quote unquote, debut of the week. But the. You could feel kind of an electricity that was a little different than what the men's shows have been. We could talk a little bit about that one, though. I really don't have much to say on what I saw last night, but.
- [06:10]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I have something to say. And I was actually messaging with people at the company that last night. It was. I. I was this close to buying a ticket, but I had this New York trip booked forever. And it was like I had a commitment on Saturday night that I couldn't miss. And I was like, could I go to this event on. At 8pm on Saturday night and take a red eye and go to the show?
- [06:32]
Jacob Gallagher
For sure.
- [06:33]
Lauren Sherman
And I decided that that was ill advised. And also I'm going to be away from my child for like 40 days or something, so it's like I need to just get home. But I was sad to miss. But I do want to hear how it was. Let's. Let's start with the overall vibe for men's Milan into Paris. Like, it seemed like a weird season from the outside and I really only. It was nice to have you at the Times because you were writing about individual shows and had ideas what was going on. It wasn't like, I never read those sort of like review roundups. So when you were pulling out like your Prada review, that type of thing, I was like, okay, now I understand what's going on. Sam does it great. Sam Hein does a great newsletter where he sort of talks about what he's seeing. But other than that, I really didn't Everybody I talked to was like, it's so dead. But what was your feeling as someone who's been covering the men's shows for years about this season?
- [07:36]
Jacob Gallagher
I'm gonna steal a take that someone sent to me last night, which kind of brought things into focus for me. Me, I was having a drink with a friend before Lanvin actually, and what he said was the problem now, if you want to call it a problem or just kind of the vibe, the vibe shifter. What is kind of weighing on the vibe right now, weighing on the feeling is that the big shows, those LVMH and caring shows, they're not surprising us, they're not startling us. I actually disagreed with him a little bit on this, but he was kind of saying that he missed those seasons where you had a really fantastic, charming, interesting, ex LVMH brand to start things off. And that set the tone in a way. And then you could have the kind of counterbalance of big and small, of the big houses and the smaller brands. You know, your Kiko Kostadinovs, I think both of those chunks, if you want to just broadly define those, have shrunken. Like Kiko is what came to mind because Kiko's pretty much one of the very few ones that exist as like a small one that's, you know, wonderful to see and you know that you're going to get a lot of whimsy and you're going to want to talk about with your, you know, peers after. Double, actually is what I'm going to throw in there. Or doublet, however you pronounce it. There was. I couldn't.
- [08:54]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, wow. I was like, what's dublay?
- [08:56]
Jacob Gallagher
Doublet. Yeah. Which is.
- [08:58]
Lauren Sherman
It might be doublet, but I. I think it might be doublet. I don't know.
- [09:02]
Jacob Gallagher
A show that season to season I have not gone to and decided to go to this year and was just like completely, like amused. And I just felt so enlightened by the show. Like, I was like, this is such a cool brand doing a cool thing and so kooky. And you want more of that. Like, you really, really want more of that. Because the kind of. I would say machine driven. I don't wanna say sterility, but it's almost sterility of what's going on at the big houses. And I would say that maybe the feeling would be different if Loewe did show. Loewe was kind of always that show that was that balance of super corporate, super huge and creative and even from who the celebrities were. But certainly that was a really, that was always a high point that was missing this season for me. It just was lighter overall, you know, it was lighter overall. Milan is now to the point where it's being, where it's really light to the point of being emaciated. You know, we're always going to go for Armani and for Prada and for Zhenya. But beyond that, it just wasn't, there just wasn't that much going on. Uh, I really did like Prada in the moment, I would say. Uh, you know, I, I, I, I, as I wrote in my review, I felt like it was, there was several statements going on within it, you know. You know, they denied backstage that they were trying to make any declarative statements. I think that they were kind of making at least a silhouette statement.
- [10:37]
Lauren Sherman
Um, but I mean, those tight around the leg, tight around the calf pants, I, the thing I love about Prada is they love to piss you off. I leave that show pissed off a lot. And no matter if I actually liked it, usually commercially I like it because I just think they're fabulous. But they love. She loves to piss people off and in the best way possible.
- [11:02]
Jacob Gallagher
I agree. It always elicits strong feelings. I would say if you read my review and think it's a little too flattering or you don't like what's going on there, go read actually the two back to back posts that Tommy Ton put up of photos of people wearing Prada era Prada. So before Raph got there and I felt like Tommy articulated a thing very well about what is different with the brand. I'm not gonna say better, worse, whatever, just what is different? I think your mileage may vary, but I felt like seeing his photos of people in that stuff and then reading what he wrote, I was like, okay, this is, you know, I definitely saw what he meant. You know, I certainly. My first Prada shows were just her and I went to a number of those and it definitely is a different brand. It just is a different brand now. But yeah, and I will say from Milan Zenya, I mean, Alessandro Sartori is just cooking. The stuff is very good. I really enjoyed that. That remains a true highlight. But you know, when designers were good this season, it felt like they were really in the pocket. So I don't think that there was a ton of, again, surprise going on. I wouldn't expect surprise from a brand like Zenya, but I think that just doing good clothes well is, you know, fantastic.
- [12:21]
Lauren Sherman
I really want him to do women's. For real.
- [12:24]
Jacob Gallagher
Yeah, yeah.
- [12:25]
Lauren Sherman
Because I. I been to that showroom and I want to buy so much and sure I could. But like there is a slight difference. And I love. I was thinking about this the other day that just like menswear designers can really move to women's easily. Whereas womenswear designers. And speaking of Peter Copping at Long Ben, like that is an example of. It's not. I thought the menswear looked decent, but it is harder. It's harder. Anyway, let's not get.
- [12:57]
Jacob Gallagher
Get.
- [12:57]
Lauren Sherman
I want to talk about that at the end. Yeah, so. And yes, on Loewe really quickly in women's. What I would say what has happened in the last few years is that because of living in la, I can't go home between Milan and Paris, which if I lived in New York, I would go home for five days. What has happened in the Paris shows is I would say people love to go to the Row, but you don't have to go to that. Like the. The goal for people is to get back for Loewe at 11am on Fridays. And that's when fashion week really starts in Paris. And it's the same thing. Like the big brands that show at the top. It doesn't. It. I feel like people almost resent that they show so early and. And I do think that the schedule is changing, especially because of what's happening with the Oscars. But let's talk about Dior, because from afar, and I've been to a couple of Kim Jones menswear shows, there's obviously a lot of talk about whether or not this was his last show or second to last show. And like everything that I'm hearing it is. But you know, this stuff, these contracts who know, you know, you just don't. You never know. So I thought it looked. The last one I went to was June 2023 and the fabrications were amazing. But I was like, this is this guy trained to audition for Chanel? I just didn't understand. Anyway, I thought from afar. I asked Jose from Vogue, I was like, was that his best show ever? Like, did you think of Dior? Did you think it was good? What did you think?
- [14:41]
Jacob Gallagher
I mean, I think it was his best show ever. I mean, that was probably the closest review I got to this season that you could call it a rave. Like, I mean, I think I wrote that he was a master of line. And I think that that's true. I think that he, you know, someone said to me, like, it works because he's the only. Or this one in particular work because he's the only men's designer. You know, fashion people love talking into hyperbole. The only. The only men's designer that, you know, thinks like a women's designer. Listen, I have no idea what that even means or what, but there certainly were some, like, I'd say, clean parallels to how you would shape a women's collection here, which is, you know, of.
- [15:26]
Lauren Sherman
Course he's not a good women's designer, but he's not.
- [15:28]
Jacob Gallagher
I was just gonna say. But of course, that's a very muddled comparison to make because he had Fendi and it did not work just based on, you know, we can say that based on the fact that he's not.
- [15:37]
Lauren Sherman
There anymore and that wasn't totally his fault. Let's be real. Let's be truthful.
- [15:42]
Jacob Gallagher
I'm not going to judge that in that sense. But, you know, I mean, I guess if we're measuring that on if he's still there, he's not still there. So. But this was. You know, I have sat through many of his. I really. I went to many a Kim Louie show, and I think that I liked those probably more, if I can make that kind of comparison to most of the Dior shows. I always felt that there was something very personal coming through in the Louis shows where he was really expressing something that was about, you know, and this is going to sound shallow in a way, but about his travels or about his kind of, you know, even the supreme thing, like, this is a guy who really, a guy this, you know, Kim Jones really was a streetwear collector, is very knowledgeable about that world. Like, even though that was. They're probably the thing that accelerated the kind of commercialism of Louis Vuitton to the frenzy that it is now. The inciting incident really, I think, was true to what Kim was at Dior, though I've always felt that he was maybe a little too deferential and bogged down, in a way, by the archive. Sometimes he would express something about, you know, where something came from in the archive. And I would think, you know, I know you're really plumbing, you know, that archive, but I'm not quite sure if it's. If it's landing 100%. And then also the collaboration kind of immediately, you know, that cause collaboration. And then Daniel Arsham and Travis Scott and, you know, these things. It's very easy for your eyes to become numb to those. This one was just so clean and it was so refined, and it was not laden down. It was not heavy on bags. It was not heavy on sneakers, it was just very, very clean. And it was a very clean articulation of form and of what I think is Kim Jones best asset, which is really his technical know how is really, really impressive as a men's designer. And it really was just such a sharp statement. And, yeah, you know, who knows where those clothes go? You know, I was speaking with someone yesterday that was saying, you know, you loved it, but those clothes don't sell. Sure, okay, fine.
- [18:00]
Lauren Sherman
But I. I think they sold at some point. I don't think they're selling now.
- [18:05]
Jacob Gallagher
But it's. I'm judging the Runway show on what it was, and I think that there was. It was a statement of cleanliness, a statement of, I think, authority over thread and fabric. And I think that, you know, if you want to read into it, there was perhaps some kind of statement there about what his future may be, or what I actually read more directly was a statement on what, you know, he's kind of gone through of being constantly and constantly the subject of rumors.
- [18:37]
Lauren Sherman
But, yeah, look, all I know for sure is that LVMH really values him. So I could see, are you getting a lot of people who know him really want him to do Burberry? And so I get a lot of like, let's push this forward. And my feeling from everything I've heard is that I don't think there's gonna be a change at Burberry anytime soon. And if there is, it's not because they wanna push it. So I don't know if that's. I don't. I don't know if there's any truth to that or if there's anything there. But the thing I would say is LVMH really values him. So I could see them backing his own brand. I think we're going to start to see that more in the way that they've done with Phoebe Filo. And maybe in. In some cases they have the money, they can give people 25 million bucks to start something. Who wouldn't love to see Kim Jones's label back? Like, I think a lot of people would. And so while it's not going to be a Chris Van Ash situation where they keep just like, putting him somewhere else until he. Until he's finally gone. Poor lovely man. So I think all I will say is I know they value him. And whatever is going to happen, they're going to make this as good for him as they possibly can. Because whatever you want to say about that company, when they have someone who's made them A lot of money, which Kim Jones has. And yes, you're right, I don't think the stuff is selling now, but Maria Grazios isn't selling now. And it used to sell like crazy. I remember I went to the LA show that he did with erl. Did you come for that?
- [20:20]
Jacob Gallagher
Yeah, I was out there.
- [20:23]
Lauren Sherman
Funny show. But I interviewed him before. First of all, he's a great product designer, but also there were like, there are a lot of guys who wear those bar jackets. Not in America. Like, I think the other thing we forget is that, like a lot of the way American men in particular, but also women dress like, American women don't wear Louis Vuitton fashion and they sell billions of dollars worth of those clothes, just not in America. Like in a lot in Asia or in, in South America or whatever. So it's like south. Something to remember. But I'm glad for him that, that it was a great show and it kind of shows like how talented he is because it's easy to forget that with all the collaborations and the focus on product. Product, product.
- [21:08]
Jacob Gallagher
Yeah, that, that was my, that was how I felt walking away. And, and, you know, I mean, I, I, I think we, whatever happens from here, you know, and, and, and contrary to what I, to what I said, you know, a couple minutes ago, you know, when you start to look back on those Dior shows, you know, setting aside perhaps the collaboration stuff, which, you know, really was probably never for me, but that his ability to handle and to direct clothing is really impressive. I mean, it just really is. That's all I can kind of say. And, you know, I mean, this being kind of a really stark reminder of that was very enjoyable. I really enjoyed sitting at that show and, and felt really, he said after, it was very emotional. And I think, yeah, you probably actually earned to be able to say that. I think sometimes designers say that they're trying to say it was emotional.
- [21:58]
Lauren Sherman
Right?
- [21:58]
Jacob Gallagher
It was emotional, right. That it was emotional. But this time I was kind of like, yeah, it was. You did the thing. It worked for me.
- [22:07]
Lauren Sherman
Best of luck to him.
- [22:13]
DSW Advertiser
Remember last year's amazing trip? That cute first birthday party? All those photos, all those memories can be freed from your phone with a Shutterfly photo book. Rediscover and share your favorite moments with those you love. You'll be amazed how easy it is to make a photo book with Shutterfly and enjoy it for years to come. Get 40% off orders over $29 with code pod40@shutterfly.com and make something that means something.
- [22:44]
Lauren Sherman
So let's talk about Veronique from Air Mets, who's been there for 36 years. And there were a lot of posts I noticed on social media this, this time mentioning that she's been there for 36 years. Like, sure, she's been there. I don't know why it was a thing, but it did get me thinking. Like, you've been going to her shows for what, 15 years? 10 years.
- [23:07]
Jacob Gallagher
About 10 years.
- [23:08]
Lauren Sherman
So what do you think? I love her stuff. I think it's really nicely done. Do you think they'll hire someone new soon or do you think that. No, no.
- [23:21]
Jacob Gallagher
Oh, my God, no. Hermes is so in the zone. And she, I mean, know your consumer, and she knows her consumer extremely well. But then there's these moments in these shows, and it's always been this way. But I really, for some reason this season, they were really clear to me. There's just these moments where it's like she still really tries something and you just see something and you're like, that's a cool idea. Like, tucked in there at this brand that's just like making clothes for extremely wealthy people and could very easily rest on its laurels, as many of those sorts of brands do. And I like, there's these things in there that, like, could be, you know, that remind me of, like, Lucas Ozendrever's Driver's Lanvon or that remind me of Kiko in a way, or that, you know, there's just these flourishes that you're like, wow, this is like a real burst of creativity. And I love that stuff.
- [24:20]
Lauren Sherman
So the thing that I find interesting about her is you never go to one of those shows and think, what am I going to write about this? Which is very difficult. I mean, maybe you do, but I haven't been to as many of them as you have. But I wonder if her skill is transferable to women's wear. Because you go to these shows and it. She's had bad shows, of course. Course. But generally it doesn't feel like, oh, my God, we're in. She's been there since what's, 36 years ago. She's been there since 1989. Is that possible? You're not like, oh, can we just get out of 1992 here? Like, it feels. It doesn't feel like reinvented. It just feels like a progression. And it doesn't. It feels like she still belongs there. I can't imagine. And anyone who says they were going to Karl Lagerfeld shows and thinking that at the end is lying like, the reason you went to his shows at the end were because they were like fun productions. It wasn't because you were looking at the clothes. And with her, it's all about the clothes. And I just wonder if there's anyone who's a queen equivalent to her in women's wear who's managed to keep. Maybe if you think of Phoebe Philo's career as one brand and just about her, maybe she's a good example of that because she keeps making things that feel like of this time but are still her. And maybe it's like more of an extreme example, but I can't think of a womenswear designer who has that ability to progress, to be progressive without pissing people off or boring people or anything.
- [26:19]
Jacob Gallagher
That's a great point. I mean, I had not thought about it through that lens. I think that. Yeah, that's probably true. That's probably true. Because, I mean, there's no sense of. You go to those shows and you think this is rote, it's going to be boring. I mean, I'm not saying it's setting the world on fire, but there's always something within that that you're kind of like, I keep using the word charmed. Maybe I'm just like, that's just what I'm looking for these days. I just want to be a little charmed by something and think something new. And you're like, yeah, I liked it. Sure. I'm gonna walk away and think about those hoods that she threw on these two guys. And you're kind of like, where did that come from? And why do you think that that fits into the Hermes right now? But it works. And, you know, that's stuff that. Yeah, I mean, there's plenty of brands at that age and there's plenty of designers that have been working at a brand for much less time than she has that, you know, feel like completely wheel spinning and that's not what they're doing. And she. I hope she's there for another 36 years. It's like, I don't think that it needs anything different than that. And I think it's the best. Like, I think it's great. You know, it just works.
- [27:43]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, yeah. It says something about the culture of that company, which is for another podcast. So totally we're saving the best. I want to save the best for last. So let's get through a couple more. Let's talk about orally. You did a great piece about Norm. Core is still around. It's just more expensive. Which I really enjoyed. Let's just discuss orally and should I just start wearing orally exclusively? I already, I have a jacket, pants and a sweatshirt.
- [28:12]
Jacob Gallagher
If this is within your budgetary bounds.
- [28:14]
Lauren Sherman
Like, is anything within my budgetary balance, Jacob?
- [28:18]
Jacob Gallagher
No, sure. Like wear only that. I think you could do so much worse than doing that. It's the colors for me. Like, you know, you walk away from those shows and it's really how he mixes color in a way that is familiar enough that you could probably try it, but interesting enough that you're not like, oh, I'm looking at Theory or Uniqlo and it's just good clothes. And I think that there. What he had, and this was a piece that I didn't write this season that I probably could have was there was just so many leather jackets. And I really wonder if that's an expression of how much companies are relying on high ticket items to kind of carry them through in a way. I mean, Lemaire had about a zillion leather jackets, but orally, like, you know, these leathers and they're just so refined and they're so, you know, a leather jacket is so hard. Because if you wear a leather jacket and it's wrong, it's just, you're just doing a thing. There's no way around that. To make a leather jacket and have it be easy is just incredibly impressive. And that's maybe the measure of the truest skill in a way at this moment. Getting ease into a garment that hard. There's just ease throughout those clothes. And I really love it.
- [29:42]
Lauren Sherman
I, as you know, own a oral.
- [29:45]
Jacob Gallagher
I know you do.
- [29:46]
Lauren Sherman
And I would not own one if he didn't make one. Like, I'm not going to buy. Maybe if I lived in New York, I would have somehow justified the Phoebe Peplum one. Cause I think it's really good. The row one is too heavy and obviously too expensive. But the Orly one, I wear it constantly. It's become part of my personality. And the thing that's interesting about his clothes, I think the color, you're exactly right. Like that is what informs the rest of what I do. He works with Charlotte Collette, who is an amazing student stylist. And she also, I think, just influences a lot of what I wear because of the shoot she does and the designer she works with. I think you're totally right on the, on the color. Like he just is right on the money. And you can look at those lookbooks and be like, I'm going to buy some stuff from, from this. The one thing about his clothes, and I'm curious from your perspective, on the women's side, the fit is not super easy for a lot of women.
- [30:48]
Jacob Gallagher
Yeah.
- [30:49]
Lauren Sherman
So. So, like, I can't. I wouldn't wear his knits for the most part because they're really clingy, and I'm not. Like, the proportions are complicated. So I just bought a pair of, like, wool check trousers that he did for men and women. So I'm gonna see. Like, if they don't. I didn't try them on. I'm gonna. If they fit, they fit. If they don't, I'll send. Send him back. But on the men's side, is there any question about the. Because the fit is definitely. Like, he's Japanese. Like, it definitely feels more squared off. And so I think for Western women, that could be a challenge.
- [31:28]
Jacob Gallagher
Yeah.
- [31:29]
Lauren Sherman
Like, I had a friend. I. I was in New York and was with a friend, and she was like, it just doesn't fit me. And I was like, well, that's because you, like. Like, the way Emilia Wickstead stuff fits, it's not going to be, like, give you an hourglass figure. On the men's side, is there any concern about that or any struggle with the fit?
- [31:47]
Jacob Gallagher
Well, I'm short and broad, so it fits me relatively well.
- [31:52]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [31:52]
Jacob Gallagher
Like, because it is. It is quite boxy. Like, I have a jacket that has this very nice kind of, like, swing to it. Because of the boxiness. Yeah, that's. That. That's a great point. You know, I don't think I've tried on enough of it to. To weigh in entirely. Um, but that is. That is certainly, like, point taken. And. And. And, you know, that is maybe worth investigating more in how it lands in stores. I can tell you, when I talk to retailers, they. It's a brand that they really love, because I think it is very appetizing, and it's very. Yeah, I think, you know, again.
- [32:36]
Lauren Sherman
I.
- [32:36]
Jacob Gallagher
Mean, he has a Runway show. It's fashion. It's here at Fashion Week. It does change season to season, but at its core, he's taken from everyday life. That's what he will tell you every single time after the show. And it fits into your wardrobe relatively easily. You're not thinking, okay, this is a statement piece. It's something you're trying to wear every day, which is the point I was trying to make with that normcore piece. You know, I think that people really want everyday clothes right now. They really, really do. And I think that that as a result, that is a challenge in a way, for those kind of bigger luxury houses that we were talking about earlier, because that has led to this kind of fragmentation of the market where the client is the wealthiest person on earth, and that's the only thing they're really appealing to. You know, I know that that's how it always was. I want to be clear. I know that that's how it always was. But, you know, it was not that long ago that having some Gucci loafers was a really important thing amongst fashion people because of Alessandro Michele. There's nothing even close to that logo existent here at Fashion Week. The closest thing you could say that, you know, would make you think, oh, I don't want to wear that, because so many other people are wearing it, is the Rear fleece, which every buyer has. That is a true phenomenon. Like, I spoke to several people this week that were like, I need to burn it because everyone else has it, or I can't buy it now because everyone else has it. Those people, shame on you. Wear it. It's a good piece. Like, you spent a lot of money on it. Who cares that it's popular now? You know?
- [34:04]
Lauren Sherman
But, yeah, yeah, I think, like, that's why Rear or Elite Lemaire, like, all these brands are really doing well at retail. Because, look, I went to Bergdorf on Thursday to try a pair of Phoebe trousers on. They're 1400 bucks. They fit really, really well. And I was like, I don't think I can do it. Like, I don't. If I lived in New York, maybe again. But also, there are nothing from the big brands that I would even think about. And, you know, those trousers at one of the big brands would be 2,400 bucks. So it is getting. You're right that it's always been for a privileged group of people, but it used to be that there was the rung below and the people who spend too much money on clothes because they have an addiction like that they could afford something. And now it just feels like I can't do that. And also, I literally can't. So speaking of one of these brands, there was a big, big to do during Milan about Simone Bilotti, the ballet designer, the love of our lives, our favorite guy. I had heard from someone who definitely knew that he had a new job and it was in Milan. And so then I was, like, asking around. I definitely ask every single person. And essentially it was like, it's definitely Jill, Sandra, because they are looking for work. Jill. And I mean, Jill Luke and Lucy Meyer. They have Been interviewing at other places and they are, look, they are looking for their next thing. I'm sure whatever happened, it's very amicable. That was a very good run for them. And maybe they're just ready to move on or what, Whatever, you know, I'm. I don't know. But then literally the day after WWD runs something that says exactly this and so look like WWD is not gonna run some random rumor. Mildly concerned that someone I told told them and that's how they ran it, but I don't think so. They, they, they're very responsible. Anyway, so I ended up doing a piece about it. Look, he's definitely not going to be a Bally forever. He definitely has a new gig. Whether or not it's Jill Sander, we will find out very soon. I think probably after the shows or what have you. But my question, I. I'm just curious how you feel. I'm not going to ask you to speculate on where he's going or any of that stuff.
- [36:33]
Jacob Gallagher
I was going to say. I'm not going to say anything.
- [36:35]
Lauren Sherman
No. But, like, this is a. I'm so happy you're gonna. He is doing a show in March that you're gonna get to.
- [36:42]
Jacob Gallagher
And I finally, I got to maybe.
- [36:44]
Lauren Sherman
See the wonderful people at Valley gave me a statement. They didn't give anyone else a statement. I felt very special saying that he is doing a show in and they love working with him and all that stuff. So whatever. There will be a show in March. Thank God for us. How do you feel about this guy and this brand? Like, I just feel like there's a small group of us that have completely just love what he's doing. He obviously was gonna do something big. What do you think about this? Like, this random. It was like serendipity. It was just like this random thing that happened that was so special and fun. And I knew it was not long for this world, no matter what.
- [37:25]
Jacob Gallagher
Well, it had shades of how it used to feel in a way when a designer. It used to feel, oh, my God, I'm getting so wistful, as if this was like a million years ago. But, you know, there was a time where a designer would get named to a brand and you'd really get excited and you'd feel that kind of friction of, you know, what's going to happen here and surprise. And I think, I think you articulated pretty well in, really well actually in your newsletter about how like, you went to the show and it was like, then you saw the clothes and you Felt you were like, oh, my God, I'm seeing something. And it's like, how rare that happens so infrequently.
- [38:00]
Lauren Sherman
It's never happened in it.
- [38:02]
Jacob Gallagher
Like, never, ever happens. And I think that that's where we are now. Is that everything? I think, because everything feels so stepwise, and so we're on the supply chain of how designers come into place to surprise is great. And listen, I think Bally, if he stays at Bally, I think there's a lot of room for it to grow to. They did not have a show during men's, but they had a little party for something, and there were a ton of people there and hanging around him, and it seemed like something very cool was happening there. And if he goes somewhere bigger, great. Maybe more of the clothes will be produced and they'll be put forward more and they'll be in more stores. I think he's very, very talented. I think he did hit on a look that felt novel in a moment where it's very hard to feel novel. I don't even know if I can articulate 100% what that look is, but it's doing something, and I want to look closer at it. And I'm very excited to see his show next month.
- [39:13]
Lauren Sherman
Did you get to meet him?
- [39:14]
Jacob Gallagher
I did not get to meet him.
- [39:16]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, my God, Jacob, you gotta meet him.
- [39:18]
Jacob Gallagher
Yeah. Hopefully I'll get to meet him. You will?
- [39:20]
Lauren Sherman
In March.
- [39:21]
Jacob Gallagher
In Milan. In March. But, yeah, it's. Listen, that was the big rumor. Everyone was really talking about that in Milan. Did not seem to be any clarity on it. So we'll see.
- [39:36]
Lauren Sherman
My vote is, if he is leaving, that they hire Scott Sternberg. I'm going to secret it. Wow.
- [39:43]
Jacob Gallagher
Okay, sure.
- [39:44]
Lauren Sherman
It's perfect.
- [39:45]
Jacob Gallagher
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a wide world. Anything's possible.
- [39:50]
Lauren Sherman
Moving on. So let's talk about Peter copping at Long Ben, or however you say it, Long Ben. Okay. So let's talk. You said the vibe in the room, my feeling. I've been to Peter's shows at Oscar de la Renta. I've been to his shows at Nina Ricci. He obviously worked for Marc Jacobs for a long time. He worked at Balenciaga doing Couture for a few years. Then he was just doing vip. He's done a lot of different things. We've seen a lot of his clothes. How did it feel in the room? It seemed like, you know, he has a lot of friends in the industry, and I think people are really rooting for him. Did you. How did you feel about it overall.
- [40:34]
Jacob Gallagher
What I will say is the first men's look came out last night at Lanvin, and I think from that point forward, was very distracted because it just. I didn't review it. Vanessa reviewed it. I think that what I would have said is that it felt so stuck in 2013 that it short circuited my brain. It was literally to see jogging pants worn without socks and double monk shoes or pointed toe shoes in 2025. The only thing I could think was, okay, he's trying to put forward what would be a new idea, an old idea as a new idea, something that's not in the market, and that maybe this is the lane they're trying to find. But it was so to see it like that, and maybe my eyes are just so affixed to this era and to all the things that are not that, but it just didn't work for me at all. And then seeing the finale and the look after look, where I felt like the proportions just were not aligning of the scale of the jackets, which in some cases were quite languid and long with this tapered jogger, and then the gap of skin and then the shoe, it was just. It felt broken and disjointed, and I didn't really like the colors. It felt not of this time and not of this moment. And for a brand that, you know, I got to go to a few of those shows that were, you know, Lucas Austin, Driver would come out, and Albert was there, and. And those clothes were so good, and they were so, like, for lack of a better word, like, future. Like, they. It felt like clothing that was, like, looking ahead and this just was not that. And I. I can tell you, amongst the men's press corps, there was a real feeling of, like, what just happened. Like, yeah, if this was supposed to be something, you know, glamorous and elegant, it was not that at all. And maybe that was a miscue on what Peter Coppin was gonna bring to it. I need to look harder at the women's, because, again, I think I felt so distracted by how the men's came out that I just was. Yeah, again, it kind of short circuited my reign a little bit.
- [43:14]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I basically blocked the men's out. So it's interesting. I saw the colors, and the sat. Like, sat there was satin, right?
- [43:21]
Jacob Gallagher
Yeah. Yeah.
- [43:22]
Lauren Sherman
Look, this is what I'm talking about. It's much harder, I think, for a womenswear designer to do men's than a menswear designer to do women's. Why? I don't know. And that could also be my personal preferences. But I think, like, Jonathan Anderson, Scott Sternberg is a great example of it. Like, these people. Simone. Like, these people can move. And these are all. Again, like, is this just my personal taste? These are all brands that. All three of those brands are things that I buy. But I think it's. Lambin is a very feminine brand. Lucas was a very special, unique designer. And they are also very known for their suiting. So that is. That's a huge business. My husband wore a Lambin suit for. For our wedding. Like, it's a huge business for them, or it was at some point. I don't think anything is a huge business for them at this point. So it's a challenge. And I would say also the challenge of the ownership structure of that company, what they've been through in the last 10 years, it's all of it a challenge, I would say, from the womenswear perspective. I haven't read Vanessa's piece yet. I assume she liked it, but I don't. Am I right? Have you read it?
- [44:37]
Jacob Gallagher
I don't know if it's up yet.
- [44:39]
Lauren Sherman
Okay.
- [44:39]
Jacob Gallagher
But go read it. Go read it, listeners. Go.
- [44:41]
Lauren Sherman
Go read it. Everyone should be reading everything Vanessa writes of it. She's one of the few people who still actually just writes about the clothes, which. For women's especially, which. Which there aren't, and whose opinion matters. But so. So what I would say is that I really struggled with Peter's collections in the past because they were too uptight. So, like, once at a Nina Ricci show, there was a PETA person who came out, and I thought it was, like, to get people excited or something. Like, it was just terrible. But they were really uptight. And I thought at Oscar, the challenge was, when you look back at. I think he may be. Only did one collection or two. There was actually something, like, really appealing about it, but it felt wrong. It was too tardy, but then also too uptight and all these things. It just didn't hit. And I think these last few years working at Balenciaga, something changed. And maybe working with Demna opened his mind a little bit, but I felt like this was the. The fashion, the dresses, which is what he needs to nail for. For this brand. I like them like the. The finale dresses. I would wear that in a second. And again, doesn't matter, but I think a lot of women will. And there is still a client who misses Albert. And I think that client, like Ikram Goldman, who is close with Peter, but, like, has a shop in Chicago called Ikram. Like, she. She probably has a lot of clients that were big, long people. Then she will be able to sell these dresses. And does that mean that this business is going to be okay? I don't know. But what I do think is that there was positive energy overall around it. And I think Peter is a better designer than he has ever been. And that is exciting. So whatever happens, this was generally a positive. I think the menswear guys probably left being like, what? And the womenswear editors were like, beautiful dresses that we'd actually want to wear. Can't wait to put that in a shoot or whatever. And so net. Net. I think it looked good. What that means for. It'll be interesting to see is there something in that cloth collection that ends up hitting at retail and also how they price it because, like, we're saying, like, if you price a blouse at a thousand bucks now, it basically feels free.
- [47:20]
Jacob Gallagher
Yeah.
- [47:21]
Lauren Sherman
So if you're. If they're able to be luxury without being at the tippy top, they may find a customer and there might be one or two pieces that really resonate, that allow them to expand and not just be. You know, I think right now they probably sell stuff. Still sell a lot of sneakers and things which were so big in the 2000 and tens. So it. It's a complicated situation because of the ownership structure. And they're a public company. They're part of a public company in the US I write every single time I write about them that I think they should take it private. But, you know, I'm not folks on international, so that's not my job. But. But it's interesting. It must have been fun for you to be there and to see, like, this person who has so much history with people in the industry kind of come. Come back.
- [48:12]
Jacob Gallagher
There's a term I keep saying or keep thinking of, which is a fashion show out of a movie. And I think that, that that's how it. That's how it kind of felt last night. But I think that maybe that's. That's just a different. That's just men's shows just have a different again feel to them. And so maybe that's what I'm hitting on. But it definitely felt like this is the way it used to be in a way where it's where, you know, the kind of drama of it all and the theatrics. And not that there were any theatrics. Like, there was no. There were no jugglers. There was no. Nothing like that. But it was just like the way the seats were set up, the way the models came, you know, the pacing of the show, it did feel very like, this is how it used to be and this is how things should be. And. And, yeah, I don't know, because you said. You said sneakers, and that was the thing that I left really wondering was, you know, how much the current approach, whether or not that it was intentional, that there were no sneakers in it there. I don't think. I don't believe there were any handbags. But the sneaker business in particular, like, this is a company that on the men's side, initiated the designer sneaker revolution. They deserve all the credit or blame, you know, again, however you want to interpret it for. For clicking that in. And they made so much money off that. And it continued up until, you know, in succession, when Kendall Roy is going crazy, what does he take out of the box? A pair of Lanvin sneakers. And he name checks them on the show. Like, that is still how I think a lot of male shoppers think of it. And it was interesting that they seem to not be giving any of that. And, you know, I do think that, you know, the. The women's was the focus. That was very clear. There was twice as many women's looks. I will bang the drum for menswear, as I always do, and say, you know, I think that they probably will have to, you know, hire and. Well, maybe they. They. They have. I don't know what's going on internally, but I do think that there should be a greater focus on men's from. From a brand like that. And I wonder if. If it will become something that they'll hammer out more just because certainly, you know, in terms of. There was basically two. Two silhouettes, two concepts happening there for men's. And I don't think that that's enough to. To make it, you know, win over that market, which clearly is very important for them or has to be important for them.
- [50:32]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. My guess is that their plan is to focus on what sells already in men's and totally revive women's. And then. But I. I honestly, I truly don't know. But that is just what I. I would assume if.
- [50:51]
Jacob Gallagher
Yes.
- [50:52]
Lauren Sherman
If the. You know, remember, they just. They did that collaboration with. Who was it with? It was like very. It was like a merch collab a few years ago.
- [51:03]
Jacob Gallagher
I mean, they've done collabs with gallery department. They did a future thing. There was like a future. Yeah, there was like a. I think.
- [51:10]
Lauren Sherman
That sold very well. So I think, like, maybe they, they're, they're like, that's not the thing we need to. But I truly don't know that it's interesting. Okay, one final thing. Cause we went 20 minutes longer than I wanted to. Saint Laurent tomorrow night. You see, you said so they are doing the show. It's only men's. They show off season a lot. Do you have any idea why?
- [51:33]
Jacob Gallagher
I don't know why. Let me just, while we're talking here, let me just make sure that it is only men's and that I'm not reporting anything wrong here. I believe that it, that it is only men's. I think that I'm the only one from our team that that is going. But yeah, it's, yeah, it's all. It's. It's. It's Men's Winter 25. It's tomorrow night at 9. Here in Paris, they tend to show when they want to show. That is kind of how it's been under Vaccarello at Saint Laurent. I, I don't, I can't say with 100% certainty that it's never been on the Paris calendar officially. I don't think that that's true. There was definitely a show that I went to maybe a year or two ago that was like all the suiting that was very similar to what Yves Saint Laurent actually wore. And I loved that show. And all the models had kind of the very YSL glasses and I mean, amazing suits. At a moment when like very few people are wearing suits like that. But it's two days after the men's week concludes. I'm staying for it. I think a few other press are staying for it. I think a few people. Yeah. I don't really know why, but looking forward to it. I always enjoy a Saint Laurette show.
- [52:52]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, well, a few. Yes. Actual drama on the, on the Runway. It's like.
- [52:58]
Jacob Gallagher
No, like. Yeah, like, it's like. It's like. It's very stirring always in a way.
- [53:02]
Lauren Sherman
So a couple of things. One is that they're very not focused on press. Of course they want you there because you're the New York Times. But. And it's you. Even if, if you were, you know, just. Cuz it's Jacob.
- [53:15]
Jacob Gallagher
No, no.
- [53:16]
Lauren Sherman
So. But they don't. They really. They emphasize celebrity and yes, they invite media where they advertise and all that, but it's not the focus for them. So it's really about celebrity. And I think also when they want to show last season or the season before they did, I think it Was the season before they did a menswear show before Fashion Week and then a womenswear show after or something like that was just so. I do know that a lot of the brands that show at the top of Paris for women's and they usually show, I believe Tuesday nights are very. Are moving their shows or annoyed because The Oscars are March 2nd and St. Laurent usually does a dinner the week before in LA. That's like a big thing for them. So I don't. I think generally I remember that I. They were doing combined shows off season. I think it's. They do just decide we're going to show when we want to show because of the fact that having all the press there is not deeply important to them. And so they can do it when it feels right and when also from a marketing perspective, like what moment would be right and tomorrow they'll probably. It'll be a lot. They'll get a lot more traction than if they had done it on Wednesday or. Or something like that. So of last week, so. Or Friday or whenever Men's in Paris started. So. Yeah, it's interesting. I. The whole. That whole. His whole project there is fascinating and we'll see where it goes next.
- [54:58]
Jacob Gallagher
I'm excited for it. You know, it's. I'm sure that everything you just said is true. I don't know. You know, we'll see what celebrities are there. So they always have a great front row of characters and of people that you're like, oh, I haven't seen you anywhere else. But I agree with that to an extent. The one thing I will push back on is that I think that they definitely could have gotten traction, having done it a few days before, just with how weak the calendar was. Not weak, I shouldn't say weak, but how open the calendar was this season in a certain way. There were definitely gaps there. And I think, you know, part of that was that there was no Loewe, but there were also other, you know, other slots and. And, you know, there were certainly some brands that broke through that again, like a. Like a doublet or, you know, everyone's still talking about that. Everyone's still talking about that Junya show that was just 41 filson mackinaw jackets reworked. That was really just right in the. Right in the Michael Williams wheelhouse that someone just spoke to me about that today and I was like, you know, that was a few days ago. But it's funny that that feels like the one that has endured amongst, you know, you know, men out there in the streets, but. Yeah, but Fun one.
- [56:10]
Lauren Sherman
Fun one. Jacob, congrats on your first Fashion Week.
- [56:13]
Jacob Gallagher
Thank you.
- [56:13]
Lauren Sherman
As a New York Times reporter. And I'll see you next week. Will I see you on Monday night?
- [56:18]
Jacob Gallagher
You will. You will. You will see me. I will be there with New York fashion. Unique folks there, such as it is gonna do it.
- [56:28]
Lauren Sherman
Okay. Safe flight back.
- [56:30]
Jacob Gallagher
Thanks, Lauren. See you soon.
- [56:34]
Lauren Sherman
Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.