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- [00:00]
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- [01:30]
Emilia Wickstead
Foreign.
- [01:34]
Lauren Sherman
Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet and today with me on the show is fashion designer Emilia Wickstead. We discuss dressing up in a dress down world, why Fashion Week still matters, building an independent biz post, Brexit, and plenty more. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world and much more. If you're interested listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go to Puck News Fashion People to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday everyone. I hope you had a great week. It's been a banner one for line sheets. Skims by Nike on Monday, Stod on Tuesday, Violette on Wednesday, Saks on Thursday. We are breaking news and hearts all in one fell swoop. JK on the hearts part. This was a week when pretty much everyone in line. She was happy about being in line sheet. Not everyone, but most people, which is always a fun, fun to break news that's positive sometimes. Thanks to Rachel Strugatz and Sarah Shapiro, team line sheet for their incredible work this week. I'm headed to New York tonight for a one day appearance to interview Mickey Drexler at Columbia Business School. And then it's off to London, Milan and Paris. I can't wait to see you soon somewhere. Let's get going with the show. Amelia Wickstead, welcome to Fashion People.
- [03:32]
Emilia Wickstead
Thank you very, very much for having me.
- [03:34]
Lauren Sherman
Thanks for being here. So what did you have for breakfast this morning?
- [03:37]
Emilia Wickstead
I knew you were going to ask me that. I actually, my husband very sweetly makes boiled eggs and soldiers for everyone in the family. But this morning I had porridge which reminded me of my Italian grandmother who used to shake her hips and make porridge for me as a little girl every morning. So I had porridge and I'm a New Zealander. I have three kiwis every morning and I drink AG one every morning, take all my supplements. So breakfasts are big for me.
- [04:08]
Lauren Sherman
Okay, so we need to talk about AG1. When did you start taking it? My husband was an AG1 freakazoid for about 3 years and then just stopped taking it one day.
- [04:20]
Emilia Wickstead
Okay, that's really interesting. So I actually, years and years ago, my head of atelier, her name is Tony, also from New Zealand, was drinking it and I kept getting sick and it was, I think it was the, you know, the beginning of the end when your body just starts to cave in and you're sort of like, oh, this is what it means to be an entrepreneur. And she said, drink this, it's going to keep you healthy, it's going to keep you from being sick. And it actually did for the longest time. And I'm saying this with a sore throat, but I truly, truly, truly do believe that I, you know, and touch wood, that I have been lucky enough to sort of stay healthy and it keeps me going and so I really believe in it. And I think also it's from New Zealand. So I'm completely invested, heart and soul.
- [05:07]
Lauren Sherman
What I will say about it. And I have no evidence either way. And I feel like for me it's like, if something makes you feel good, then you should take it and it's not going to hurt you. And I'm sure there are some benefits. The big thing is my husband said that it forced him to drink a lot more water in the morning, which is immediately he was like, I realized I'm not drinking the same amount of water because that was the first thing he would do every morning before coffee. And so he needed to readjust to have like another eight ounce glass of water. And that it might seem like trivial one, especially now that we all drink out of these giant water bottles that are like 58 ounces or whatever. But it is a thing of it. It. I also think it's just like a routine. It's like meditation or whatever. If you do it every morning, you feel like, okay, I got that done, I can get everything else done.
- [06:06]
Emilia Wickstead
It is a routine and it's all your vitamins and minerals all in one. It also tastes great and then it becomes like a little bit of a ritual. So I'll do lemon and hot water and then I'll wait 10 minutes and then I'll do that and then I'll wait another 25 minutes and then I'll have something to eat. So I spent a lot of time recently sort of, I think, having your own business, you know, the same old lines. Having your own business, being a mother and doing all of that and just constantly being a little bit on a grind. Let's say it's sort of just taking care of yourself a little bit more. And that's been part of my routine. And so I continue with it. And as long as it keeps me well, I'm thrilled.
- [06:46]
Lauren Sherman
How many kids do you have?
- [06:49]
Emilia Wickstead
I have two.
- [06:51]
Lauren Sherman
And how old are they?
- [06:53]
Emilia Wickstead
So one has just turned 12 and the other is turning 10.
- [06:56]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, cool. So they're like little people.
- [07:00]
Emilia Wickstead
They are little people that answer back and are really cute and have great conversations.
- [07:05]
Lauren Sherman
It's really fun.
- [07:06]
Emilia Wickstead
It's a fun aid in at this.
- [07:09]
Lauren Sherman
Point in the process. So this is probably going to run right around London Fashion Week, where you're doing a show. We are what, a month out from there? A little over a month out from there. As we record this, what point in the process are you in? Like, what does your day look like as a small business? Well, I don't know how small, but as a business owner, an entrepreneur, and also a designer. And you're like many people in your position, you are probably doing 50 different jobs. So what in the process of the collection are you in? Right now. And what, like, what did today look like for you?
- [07:46]
Emilia Wickstead
So, actually, my Thursdays are always my head of department days, so we do team operations meetings, and I touch base with all of my heads of departments, which is always quite a fun day because you hear the ins and outs of the business when it comes to Fashion Week. It's pretty much all orient, like, all completely connected to show. Sponsorship, stylist conversations, casting conversations, budgets, looking at our. At our sks. Like, how many units are we. Are we presenting? And also cutting SKUs, and then we're talking about commercial styles that we're going to put into the collection. So I actually thrive. I always say that I'm sort of like, built in two parts where I, like, thrive on the creative part of my job, massively where I'm creating this dream world. And, you know, Fashion Week for me is, I guess, where my identity and the world of Emilia Wickstead, which is why I'm doing this, why I wake up every day, is put out on a Runway and is showcased to the world. And it's sort of like how I want the world to dress, which is very exciting. But the other side of my. Of the way that I'm sort of programmed is I love the business side of fashion, and so I love my Thursdays. So that was my Thursday today. But other than that, we are at the moment adding our last designs into all of our looks that we have sort of lined up on the board and then talking about how fast we can produce them so that our stylist we work with, Harry Lambert, he'll come in, look at the collection with a fresh pair of eyes. And we saw him last week as well. He big part of the creative process. And so the next time that we can see him. So now it's kind of the fun part that pretty much all of the collection, or the majority of the collection is designed.
- [09:34]
Lauren Sherman
Have you listened to Bella Freud's podcast with her? And she does all the. It's called Fashion Neuroses.
- [09:40]
Emilia Wickstead
I love Belafroid, but I haven't.
- [09:42]
Lauren Sherman
No, you have to listen to it. Jonathan Anderson, one was really interesting because he was really forthcoming and also he talked a lot about his relationship with Benjamin Bruno and that it sounds like they're very, very good friends outside. But. And I've been, you know, I gotten to know a lot more stylists who work on collections over the years. How important is your process with Harry? Is it. Does he push back on you a lot? Or is it. Or is it. Are you totally in sync like, what. What is that relationship like?
- [10:18]
Emilia Wickstead
Well, I think this will be our third season working together, and I think whoever I've worked with and including Harry, is that you immediately feel a connection when you start working together and you mold nicely together would be the best way that I describe it. If there's ever this kind of feeling of tension. I mean, by the way, don't get me wrong, I love to be pushed outside of my comfort zone, believe it or not, which some people don't believe that I like to, because I'm very clear and distinct on, like, who our woman is, what our vision is, what our world is. I'm very passionate about that. But I love being. I love being challenged, and I love. I almost thrive off of someone pointing out something that I don't like to hear. And then I like to sort of push my limits a little bit because my buttons have been pushed and. And. And do something bigger and better and. Yeah, and I love a bit of a challenge. So I would say we mold very well together. I think that definitely he comes in with a different. A different eye, a different approach to, like, a lot of things, but we're also very much in sync with so many things, and I think that that's really important. Otherwise, if we're too much on two different pages, there's no point.
- [11:31]
Lauren Sherman
Totally. There needs to be some push, pull. But also getting each other.
- [11:37]
Emilia Wickstead
Yeah. And having a good time, like, at the end of the day, you know? God, I've spent so many years just being a little bit too serious, I would say, and always being worried about everything. And I think now. Now that I'm at the tender age of 41, I feel like I've been doing this from my living. We know, Started in my living room, but it's been almost 15 years now. And getting to know, like, who I am as a designer, what we represent as a brand, understanding what women want, and I think having that confidence, but also knowing that you want to keep waking up every day and doing something a little bit differently is pretty exciting. And so it's fun to do that with Harry.
- [12:17]
Lauren Sherman
That's. That's really fun. What. What is remarkable about you is I can close my eyes and see what an Emelia Wickstead dress or piece looks like. Even the knit that you're wearing is. Is yours, correct?
- [12:31]
Emilia Wickstead
It is, yes.
- [12:32]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. So, like, a knit is harder, but there's something very. There's a smoothness to all the materials you use that feels like they're all connected. Like, it's not the Right word. But it's like a matte smoothness that even in this knit, I feel the connection from the knit to the dress, and that is really rare. What was the London fashion scene like when you started out and you started showing there at fashion week, like 10 years ago. Right. So five years into the business, what was it like when you got off the ground and what did you feel like you were able to bring so quickly in terms of point of view?
- [13:20]
Emilia Wickstead
So it's really interesting that question, actually, because I was fresh off the boat from New Zealand when I. And then I moved to Milan. My mother married. We actually lived outside of Milan, but I moved to Milan when I was 14. My mother married an Italian. And already that just before arriving, fresh off the boat to London for university was all of a sudden like this gear change of like walking home from school in bare feet and there being like no designer stores in New Zealand whatsoever. Although my mother had her own design business. It was. Was just myself and my mom. My mom was a single mom, and so I knew her sort of her little business that she had. But even the contrast of going from New Zealand to Italy and all of a sudden everyone's groomed and very dressed up, etc, I think created this little bit of like a commercial buzz and commercial kind of business mode in my mind. Then I arrived in London and in answer to your question, went to Central Saint Martins, and all of a sudden it was this city that had this huge sort of like, you know, everyone was so creative and it was this exploration of, like, independence and individuality and you could be anything that you wanted to be. And coming from, like, Milan, where everyone was so contrived and it was all very materialistic, etcetera, it's almost like those two worlds merged and I took the commerciality of what I was exposed to from the age of 14 and which I loved as well, and then this kind of vibrancy and strength to kind of be whoever you wanted to be of London combined the two. And I think that's where we sort of stood out a little bit. Because even in my graduate show at Central St. Martin's there are only. I think there were only five of us from my class that were chosen to be part of the press show. And I was by far the most commercial. So there was always. There was strong architectural design. There were like, points of difference. I played on tradition. I had a little twist. That's exactly what I do now. It was very much my voice already, but definitely sitting next to everybody else. I already, I think was painting my own picture in that fashion scene.
- [15:33]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. Do you think, I mean, there are a lot of people who, who go to St Martin's who are not from the UK, so. But did you feel like because of your mother's business, like, what was it that made you not fall in line with everyone else?
- [15:55]
Emilia Wickstead
I definitely think that I had my mother in my ear talking at me, which I think was very much, you know, I wanted to study womenswear and she said it has to be women's wear with, you know, fashion design, with marketing. So there was never an option of like, you're not going to have the business side as well. And I think that, I think that she, you know, I always, when I, when my mother had her business, I saw a lot of the ups and downs. I saw the struggles, I saw the benefits, I saw the happy days, but I saw a lot of not so happy days. And I think that I always wanted to build a business that was profitable, that had growth. Even when I started, I did everything backwards. I started with a bespoke business and I didn't carry any stock and I built a business whereby the customer had to pay 50% upfront. Because I always had that fear in me of how am I going to withstand this industry and survive as a brand? And yeah, I think, I think that I always had that at the forefront of my mind, I guess. That sort of answer your question? I guess, yeah.
- [17:03]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. I feel like when you're young, it's so easy to be swayed by what's like in the air and even very talented people that happens to. But it sounds like because you understood how the business worked, that from the beginning you were able to like. I wonder if it gave you a little more confidence in not only in your design abilities, but your ability to stay on track, if that makes sense.
- [17:34]
Emilia Wickstead
I think completely. And even when I started from my living room, women would come to me and I was clearly the only person working for my business. But it was really understanding clearly what women wanted. So I was a 23 year old. I mean, what I wanted was a mini skirt and a tight pair of trousers and a crop top. But what did women really want? And you know, I spent the first. Even so it was in the recession in 2008 when I took on a store which, you know, all stores were closing down in London and it was an absolute disaster and I sort of struck the stair. I mean, I didn't even know how it happened really, but it was based on how much Money we made, we would pay in rent, so. And even, I mean, even the fact that they gave it to us. But I think every, every store was vacant in 2028 and it was a bit of a disaster here. Well, there was a recession everywhere.
- [18:22]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [18:23]
Emilia Wickstead
Um, and, you know, I opened the door of that store with no stock and people had to order off of samples. And it was just me selling for the first six years. So I was there Monday to Saturday understanding who my woman was. And even when it came to, you know, I really wanted to have a show because of course I was like very naive. Faking it till you make it. And I was 24 at this point, and I would put on a show for customers. So I would have customers, they would have a wish list and then I would, because I didn't have stock, they would put an order in and then I would take 50%. So I did everything completely backwards and I did it for the customer and understanded and understood, I guess, where my niche in the marketplace was. And I think even to this day, I still stand strong and can say, I know where our niche is. I know what, what the Amelia Wickstead world is today. And it hasn't changed hugely. I mean, it has, but it hasn't.
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Lauren Sherman
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Emilia Wickstead
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- [20:25]
Lauren Sherman
What did you learn in that process in those early years about. You mentioned what women want. You mentioned having, like, your idea sort of in place. But the thing that I find really compelling about your work, not only that I can close my eyes and see it in my head, but also that you have the dresses fit like the Clothes fit. That is something that. There are designers who never figure that out or never really try because they aren't as interested in dressing a real human. It's more about the idea or what have you. And that's fine. There's a place for all of it. But if you want to be commercially successful, it tends to be about making the customer feel good. What were some of the things that you learned? And not just like, obviously, people have body hangups, things like that, but just generally about how people interact with fashion in those early days that you've sort of taken and used as a foundation for your business.
- [21:33]
Emilia Wickstead
I mean, listen, I grew up in my mother's, you know, store living room, fitting woman after woman. I mean, I would sit there and fill her pin cushions and just watch. So I guess I grew up with this sort of acute awareness of how fabric moves and flatters. I also had my mother sort of taking me in stores when we moved to Italy, and, you know, turning a garment inside, inside out and show and explaining to me that the quality of the inside of the garment has to be as good as the outside, the garment. And, oh, look at these. Look at this polyester lining, or look at this overlock seam versus, like, a French seam. And so it was very. I would say that, you know, the way I design now, I'm. I'm. I guess I've got this appreciation for tradition. I've got this. This. This sort of romance of the past. I've got this. This sort of, you know, I don't. I'm. Without compromising, I guess, on modernity, but I've got this. I've got this passion about, you know, extreme special craftsmanship and good fit. And that's always been at the forefront of my mind, I think, purely because I've just watched my mother for years and years and years, and that's always been, like, what she was all about. It was all about the tailoring. It was all about. All about the fit. She was explaining things to me before I even realized that I was taking them in, I guess, in answer to your question. And I think, you know, I'm always designing for purpose. I'm designing for longevity. I'm designing for garments that you pull out of your wardrobe in years to come. That's always been my thing. And so fit, you know, at the end of the day, design changes, and I love being fashion forward, and I love pushing the boundaries, and I love creating lots of different, you know, twists on design. But at the same time, for me, fit is. Is the Most important part of it all. But it does come with time and age for sure. Understanding fit better. But yeah.
- [23:28]
Lauren Sherman
Is there a lot of internal construction in your pieces?
- [23:33]
Emilia Wickstead
There is, but I think also something is that, I think something about our brand is that I think that there, you know, we've got a lot of simplicity and ease in a lot of things as well. And I, and I often, you know, we might have a lot of construction in a garment and then I'll just suddenly pull it all out because I think we are women on the go in today's world. And I think it's very, very different from, you know, from it's very, I guess as a woman, I'm designing for women is what I'm trying to say. And I know that if I'm feeling, you know, completely like caught up in a garment, I'm not going to feel comfortable. And, you know, it all goes back to how does clothing make you feel? It's my job to make women feel proud, confident. I mean, I think that we take it for granted half the time of how powerful clothing is and how it can make us behave and how it can make us feel like we can walk into a room and achieve anything or how we can converse and all sorts of these things. So I think that you have to make sure, and I've always said this, that the clothing is not wearing you and that you're wearing the clothing. And so yes, we will have, you know, beautiful corsets and dresses that need a corset because it's a black tie event and that's what we're doing and that's the look and the feel. But I'm very, very, very much about, you know, simplicity and ease in everything that we do and the art of a well dressed life. Dressing up for sure, feeling put together. But it doesn't mean that you need to have all of these strange little compartments to an outfit that make you feel completely sort of uncomfortable. You have to feel comfortable in what you're wearing.
- [25:16]
Lauren Sherman
How does the UK or the British customer and the American customer differ for you? Because I was just thinking about your collection and you obviously have day, a lot of day wear and like you said, there's a real ease to all of it. But you are known for, you have a big wedding business, you're known for cocktail dresses and things for formal events. And I, when I think of the UK and all the different fun parties, people get to go to there and really need to dress up and wear a fastener or what have you and the US is a much more casual market, especially for, like, a cocktail party in the evening. Women don't tend to dress up as much as they might in Europe at all. How does your customer differ, given this is such a big market? I'm sure it's a big area of growth for you. And how do you sort of think about that as a designer when you're putting the collection together and then working with your team to merchandise it and all of that?
- [26:24]
Emilia Wickstead
It's funny that you say that because, listen, I think in the uk, undeniably, we've got this sort of unique love on tradition and occasion. And I think that there's a real. There's real excitement and experimentation, I think, here in the UK with fashion, undoubtedly. And I think I love that about the uk, but it's funny because I always see that I've always thought of the US a little bit like that as well. And it's funny because America is our fastest growing market at the moment, and so clearly they're tapping into us for that occasion dressing. And that's kind of absolutely wonderful. So we see that the customer is very much like in line with our customer here in the uk. I think that, listen, I think that the woman that we're dressing, and I always say that we're dressing for all women. I think that when we're putting together our, you know, our line sheet of, like, what are all the designs that we're. That we're putting forward in a merchandising plan and who's our woman and what we're thinking about. I always say we're for all women. So, you know, we dress. We dress women of all ages and all around the world. And it's funny because we've always been known for occasion and I think, again, that comes distinctly from the UK and all the different occasions, like you said, that we have, and that's a big part of our business. But I think that that woman that's shopping with us, she's building out her wardrobe. So now, like, separates and casual wear, like, even this jumper that you were referring to, people don't necessarily think or come to us for that, but that's like a huge part of our business. Denim is a huge part of our business. Holiday wear, like cotton dresses, like simple cotton dresses are a huge part of our business. And our customer is. She's quite forward and original and she's really bold and refined, but yet also quite refined in her delivery. So she's just a very modern woman in her circle and it's Interesting, because we've really got that woman. You know, when you say we don't have that in America, We've definitely got that woman in America, for sure.
- [28:28]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [28:29]
Emilia Wickstead
Or so our numbers keep telling us.
- [28:32]
Lauren Sherman
Well, it's also interesting, like, what I was saying, the knit that you're wearing, and maybe it is the architectural thing. Like, how are you obsessed with. You must be obsessed with color as well, because I feel like that's the other thing. You're very. I can't articulate this. You probably can, but you have your sense of color. It all does feel. There's something, like, very rich about the colors you use or. And saturated or something. But it does all feel like it's connected, which is extremely hard to manage this far into a business.
- [29:10]
Emilia Wickstead
So it's funny, I. That's the first thing I start with often with the collection, is my color palette. So it's interesting you say that, and I think that, you know, color has so much. You know, so much impact on. On sort of mood and confidence of clothing. I. I think, personally. But also I always see everything, and especially color, I guess, through quite a rich cinematic lens. And so I look to cinema, anything old world, and I really play into those color palettes. And that's. Yeah, that's ultimately how I started collection, really.
- [29:44]
Lauren Sherman
What are some of your favorite movies for fashion inspiration over the years?
- [29:49]
Emilia Wickstead
Like, oh, my goodness.
- [29:50]
Lauren Sherman
What was on your first mood board?
- [29:55]
Emilia Wickstead
On my first mood board? Well, Nine and a Half by Fellini. That was. That was actually probably my first, which was all in black and white, of course, but I put color into that. So when we're connecting color, that. That has nothing to do with color, honestly. Anything from sort of anything from the 1950s to the 1960s. I would love to talk to you about, like, our. Our most recent collection that we're focusing on. Am I allowed to talk about that? Maybe not. But, like, for instance, the director that I'm looking at and the films that I'm looking at, the color palette, I mean, that's like a perfect example of how I hone in on color. So when that all comes to life and you see it, you'll see we look to the costume design, to the mood of the interiors within a film, just everything. That's where I pull my color references from. But I can't tell you what that is.
- [31:05]
Lauren Sherman
That's okay. By the time this airs, everyone will get to see it in the next day or two, or it'll already be available. So what day is your show?
- [31:15]
Emilia Wickstead
So our show is on the Sunday. So on the 23rd. I mean, it's basically, it's like the world of Hitchcock. Right. So it's sort of how his, you know, let's say his color palette leans into the mood of the film. So if the mood. So if it's really gloomy and scary. But then, I mean, it's so interesting when you read about how he builds his color palette out with his costume designer and how he films something. The setting, the scene, everything. If there's something alarming is about to happen, it'll be one specific color amongst, you know, a gray and gloomy scene. It's really interesting. And so anyhow, that's an example of how we would play into color.
- [31:56]
Lauren Sherman
Okay, well, I'm very excited to see it. And, and Hitchcock obviously is, is, is for you. I, I was just watching rewatching because I've probably seen it 50 times, but the godfather part two, my husband had never seen it.
- [32:13]
Emilia Wickstead
I did. I did an entire collection based on the Godfather.
- [32:17]
Lauren Sherman
Exactly. So what is the first wife's name? Apollonia. That was a huge inspiration for my wedding, for my dress. Like that. There's so much. And I also feel in your work, it feels very cinematic, but also the Italian part, there is something about what you do. It feels rooted in the UK and that Commonwealth thing, but there's also something nodding to that time in your life, I assume. And it feels like you take a lot of inspiration from it.
- [32:56]
Emilia Wickstead
Yes. So my, my mother is half Italian, so my grandmother was from, from Italy and also was a big part of sort of raising me. And I think definitely, you know, this, her name was Amalia. And this Italian woman in my life who was always know. Very, very. We didn't have much, but like very glamorous in her, sort of like every day. And we always, you know, listened to Frank Sinatra on repeat. And it was very much that kind of Italian upbringing and Italian cooking and all about family, you know, eight children and so forth. And then on my father's side, he's. He's Polynesian, from Samoa, like half Polynesian. So it's, it's sort of like I've had this like real sort of mix of cultures. And then now being very British, you know, I'm a British based designer with British children, but definitely. And the Godfather, that was. I did a show, I remember it was. We ended up doing it in a restaurant. Very, very, very Godfather esque. And it was 90 people. And it was. That was one of my favorite collections, actually. And even the colors in that and all the different references.
- [34:05]
Lauren Sherman
I love a fashion show in a restaurant.
- [34:07]
Emilia Wickstead
I just become so transfixed with film. You know when people say, oh, do you go to an exhibition and become obsessed? I'm like, no, I just watch films. I feel like even when I was at school, I think one day I was talking to my biology teacher and I was like, I feel like I'm in a movie. And she was like, every day you feel like you're in a movie.
- [34:26]
Lauren Sherman
Look, I feel like that's a great way to live life. I also act like I'm in a movie or live my life like I'm in a movie. Movie, romantic comedy, exactly.
- [34:37]
Emilia Wickstead
But that's how you build out your world. And I think when I think of, you know, designers that I've admired from the past or when I think of like what our world is, it's always, you know, a brand that has created a vision where it's like the world of. And it's this ability, I guess to innovate but while sort of honoring heritage. And I'm kind of transfixed by that. And I love it when films do that. And so I always think I've always wanted to build a brand that's all about lifestyle and the world of. As opposed to just being, oh, I'm a ready to wear brand. So for us, we have Made to Measure, Made to Order, which is the modern day version of Made to Measure. We have a bridal world, we have a vacation world. Obviously our Ready to Wear, which comes to life during fashion week. And then we've got our homeware line. So it's all of these like different parts of our world. Like I'm entranced by this, you know, lifestyle that we've created, I guess.
- [35:37]
Lauren Sherman
How have you built the infrastructure to create do the Made to Measure and the Made to order because that is a tremendous amount of work for you and your team. And I, I'm sure there the customer retention, not to get too marketing speak, but like the customer retention I'm sure is incredibly high, but it is just so much work. And your, your dresses are not their luxury, they're not cheap, but like they're also not the most expensive, especially the ready to wear in the, in the world. I'd say that they're probably in the middle of the designer range in terms of price. And so I'm sure you're making a lot of stuff locally or, or in the studio. How, how have you built that out over the last 15 years?
- [36:24]
Emilia Wickstead
So it's really interesting. It's the heart and soul of the business, because we started with that. So when, you know, sometimes when you're forced into doing something because you don't really have another option. I mean, I didn't even know what wholesale was for the first seven years of our business. So when people say, oh, you've been going for such a long time, I'm like, but I didn't even start selling to stores or had a wholesale business or carried stock for a very, very long time. So I think because it was the heart and soul of our business, I always played on that. And I also. What's really interesting is that I don't believe. I really don't believe that the success of having a business can be purely, I think in this day and age and with lot, you know, in a lot of ways of what's happened to a lot of our peers and different businesses is that you can't rely purely and wholly on ready to wear. And so for us, for instance, during the pandemic, I mean, did we not have bespoke and bridal and made to measure, we wouldn't have survived it. So I sometimes think it's the gift that keeps giving. You know, I've got people in my atelier that have been with me for 10 years, and it's just a big part of like the heart and soul of our business. I love going in there. I love creating on the spot that that's who we are. And if I take that away, like I said, I love the business of fashion, but I'm taking away the heart and soul of what Amelia Wicks did is and how we built this brand and we have the traditional route and why I say that we play on tradition and we play on modernity, but then we've also got for the modern day woman. If you came in and you said, I love this dress you're wearing, Emelia, or I love this top, but I would never wear green. I only wear black and white. I'll make that for you in 40 working days with a percentage uplift. And so that's kind of a modern day take on bespoke. I just think it's a really exciting way to build a business. I think there's so much more to just having a ready to wear business. And I think it's almost been a blessing. I always call us slow fashion. It's almost been a blessing that we started everything backwards. We became very grounded and deeply rooted in who we are and what we're doing. And I think that's kind of our secret weapon. You know, so long as touchwood, we continue to do what we're doing. But I do believe it's been our secret weapon. And I don't think many brands have started this way. But I was forced into it. I didn't have any upfront money to build a business from day one. And I had three jobs on the go and I took 50% payments. As I mentioned earlier, I got on the tube every day, worked with a factory, fitted everything myself. And again, I often. I love. There's a quote by Estee Lauder and I love that she says when she built her business, she did every single role within the business, she worked in every single position. And that's effectively what I've done. And I think that's how you know your business inside and out. And when push comes to shove and you need to like step in and do something else, you can, you're not just a win head. Wonderful.
- [39:30]
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- [40:02]
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- [40:33]
Lauren Sherman
Do you feel like you. You have you mentioned this heads of meeting on Thursday. So obviously you have learned to delegate at this point in the business. Like what would you say your role other than leading the kind of creative direction is? And B, now that you do have like a team in place and B, what do you want to happen with it? What is your dream of where it could go?
- [41:00]
Emilia Wickstead
Global world domination number one. Listen, I've always seen a bigger picture, let's put it that way. This was never set out to be like a more bespoke business. That's just the way that we were forced to begin this journey. And you know, we're a company of 50 people. I'm really proud of that. And my position currently is I'm creative director and founder, and I'm also the CEO. So, you know, I very much. Like I said, I'm kind of split in two ways, and I love both sides of the business, but, you know, you're nothing without the people that work for you. And so I think we've been, you know, we've started a business on very small salaries where we worked with extremely junior, inexperienced people that some have grown with us and are still here today, which is brilliant. And then, you know, it's a wonderful place to be when you're in a position where you've got sort of the. The bandwidth to have more senior people and you're learning from those people. You know, I came into this business with only X amount of expertise, so I need to keep learning all the time, and that's a big part of my job, which I love. But where do we want to be? We want to be huge. We want to be dressing everybody. America is our biggest target market right now, and it's going pretty well. We want to be the wedding dress on everybody, and we want to be everybody's wardrobe. And I think that that's what's quite nice about us now that we've got so much diversity within our wardrobe.
- [42:35]
Lauren Sherman
I think it's. I don't want to say admirable, but exciting that you are ambitious in that way, because I would say that a lot of designers in the UK in particular, were almost taught or pushed to not have big business ambitions. And I think it's nice to hear from someone who says, no, I want to be a huge company and I want to address a lot of people, and you want that. It's. It's. If it's refreshing, for sure.
- [43:12]
Emilia Wickstead
I think at the end of the day, I. I love the idea of constantly creating and constantly pushing myself and pushing our boundaries and hopefully doing something that just continues to inspire people's wardrobes. But at the end of the day, if people aren't wearing it, I don't see my purpose, because for me, I guess my job is to educate on how one should dress to the office, dress on the red carpet, dress to go to work every day, and that's what I'm passionate about. So if people aren't wearing my clothing, I feel like my job is not done and my customer. But at the same time, I don't want to stand still with that. It's not about, oh, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna create a wardrobe that season upon season is the same thing. And there's repetition, because I know that that sells. I also need to be. And I think that that is what is. I like to think a little, like, you know, a little. A little place in our little world, in this marketplace, is that we're continuously pushing our customer and pushing our woman to go out of her comfort zone a little bit as well, so that not every collection looks the same and that every season you're like, God, I want to wear my hair like that, or I want to wear that blazer in that way, and I want to. But at the same time, she can still pick out any of those items in eight years time and still wear them, and that they're, you know, that they're still. That they've stood the test of time. So, yeah, I'm always making sure I'm ticking all those boxes, basically.
- [44:47]
Lauren Sherman
So speaking of ticking boxes, so you have this fashion show coming up. If, you know, you never know what will happen. Maybe we'll. We don't know. Like, there could be some crazy event. And I. We need to run this a different date. But the. The goal is to run this right before your fashion show. So you have this show coming up. Hints of Hitchcock. We'll see. We will anticipate. Why do you show up Fashion Week? What. What value? I was just. I just did a little story on Emily Bodhi, and she doesn't really show. She's probably one of. She's one of the most promising designers in America, has a really strong brand like you. You can close your eyes and see Bodhi, but she doesn't really show at Fashion Week, and she never really has. What. What value do you find in it now? Especially in the context of where British fashion is post Brexit and all that stuff.
- [45:46]
Emilia Wickstead
Listen, at the end of the day, I, you know, I'm a creative and I'm emotional, and I think it's an opportunity to communicate an emotion and leave a lasting impression. And I think that it's immersing people in the world of your own season. I think that I'm a very shrewd businesswoman. So do I have budgets like the big luxury brands, and am I. No, but it's my expectation to put on a show that looks sort of like that. Yes. And I think that I love that challenge as well. So if I can continue doing that, because for me, that is creating my world for everyone to see. Like, there is so much more you can do in a show. Because it's in motion. It's a moment. It's an experience. It's an experience. And now you can showcase that around the world because it can be videoed and you can see people's expressions and you can feel, like I said, I'm a very emotional person. You can feel emotion from it. I think that if I can continue doing that, it's different from a photo shoot. And I think that I'm also a bit of an old school, kind of traditional kind of person, that I love it. So if I can, I will continue to do that. But I'm doing it in a very shrewd way. Don't get me wrong. I'm being very clever about it and I'm not closing my eyes to the realities of what's happening around us and budgets and things like that. And anyone that we work with, when we put on a show, especially production, will definitely know that I'm a very challenging person in that respect because there's also no way that I will jeopardize my business model because I'm spending so much money on a show that I can't afford. So I think as long as I can make sure that it makes sense for my business, yeah, then I will. But I think fashion is emotion and being in the moment and what it creates also for morale for your team and, like that moment and that feeling is just something that you, like, take away and thoroughly enjoy. Don't get me wrong, it's like really stressful as well, but it's actually really enjoyable. If you've got the right people in your team, it's incredibly enjoyable and it pushes you.
- [48:09]
Lauren Sherman
I think there's also something about. And I haven't been. I'm actually going to come for a couple days for London Fashion Week this year, which I'm excited about. Yes, I think I will be. I'm landing on Sunday Morning, so. So I will request. I would love to see one of your shows, but I haven't been in, probably because I worked at a UK company for so long, they had people there. So I never. I would go to Paris a lot and sometimes Milan, but never to London for Fashion Week. I would go on other times of the year, but from what when I covered eight years ago that I loved is the fact that, like, there is a real pleasure in going to the shows and taking them in and. And enjoying the experience that I would argue doesn't exist in any of the other cities. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. But there was something about covering London where People just love, Love fashion. They just love it. And they're just there because they. Everyone who works in the industry, everyone just loves it. It's like, yes, it's commercial, but it's also just about beautiful things. And that part of it, like you said, for your team, it's, yes, it's a marketing tool and it's all that stuff, but it also is just, like, great to be a part of the community.
- [49:30]
Emilia Wickstead
It is. It's great to be part of the community. And. And also, back to your point, it is a huge marketing tool. You know, I. I can't afford to advertise in big magazines yet. But. But it's. So that's our. That's our. That's our advertisement for the season. And also, I think, like you said, people here are so passionate and excited about fashion is that you can work with some really unbelievable creatives who are starting out. And I don't know, it's just. There's a real. Everyone feeds off of each other. And I think that that's great. And I've. The minute I stepped on the soil here, when I came from Italy, I immediately fell into this world of, you know, people encouraging everyone, encouraging each other, being, being independent, being an individual and kind of doing whatever you want to do. So I continue to do that. And, you know, definitely, we have definitely had, you know, challenges where, like, we can't afford to work with a stylist. So I'm styling the show or my first shows, I would put push play on an ipod dog. I mean, we have done. Because it was all about, I want to do a show and I want to be. This is what I want to be. This is. This is how I want the brand to be perceived. And not caring that I didn't have the budgets to do it, but I was going to find a way. And people, you know, throwing in favors. I remember people giving us venues and things like that. And I think that there's a real culture of that here. And you remember those people and then as the brand grows and you, you know, go back to those venues, but in a different capacity. And I think that's what's really, really special about London and.
- [51:10]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [51:10]
Emilia Wickstead
And just being yourself.
- [51:13]
Lauren Sherman
Amelia, congratulations on all your success and thank you for being here.
- [51:18]
Emilia Wickstead
We've got a long way to go. Thank you for having me.
- [51:21]
Lauren Sherman
Now, let's check in in a year or two and you can give me updates.
- [51:25]
Emilia Wickstead
But this was great dominations going, but.
- [51:28]
Lauren Sherman
Congrats on building something real that has a reason to exist. Because that's really hard.
- [51:38]
Emilia Wickstead
You're quite right. And I count my blessings. And listen, I come from New Zealand, which is all about that. It's very real and we're very much, I guess, studying something from the ground up, rolling up your sleeves and never taking no for an answer. So maybe continue.
- [51:59]
Lauren Sherman
Can't wait. Thank you again.
- [52:01]
Emilia Wickstead
Thanks very much. I really appreciate you having me. Thank you.
- [52:05]
Lauren Sherman
Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck Co Founder John Kelly, Executive Editor Ben Le Landy and Director of Editorial Operations Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.
- [52:31]
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