B (3:21)

It's definitely a flea market. It's the Long Beach. Yesterday I went to the Long beach flea market. It's very much a flea market.

A (3:31)

You find crazy stuff there. Why is it so good?

B (3:35)

Listen, Lauren, it's not that it's good, it's that I'm good.

A (3:38)

Okay, that's true, that's true. But what would. Why do you seek that one out?

B (3:45)

Well, I go to every flea market. That's like what I do for sport.

A (3:48)

What would you say makes that one special?

B (3:52)

No, I think the Long beach flea market's probably my favorite flea market in LA because it's less, you know, the hipsters aren't trying to drive to Long beach on a Sunday morning at 6am.

A (4:03)

Yeah, the Japanese are though, and they know what's good.

B (4:08)

They know what's good and they're coming straight from Japan and they're there at 5 and they're on a mission.

A (4:13)

I think in my current lifestyle I'm never gonna be able to go, but I do always get a little jealous because you get really good stuff.

B (4:21)

Well, what did they say? The early bird gets the worm. Yeah, that table yesterday was a major come up. Also all the tabbies. That was very good.

A (4:30)

I'm endlessly impressed. It, it reminded me I subscribed to your substack, which I, I think is very good. Everyone should subscribe. It's called Curious, right?

B (4:42)

Yep, Yep.

A (4:44)

Curious. Aurora james.substack or something like that. Just Google. But I thought it was interesting. You, you mentioned this and I, I have an upcoming interview with Gene Pressman, one of the heirs to Barney's, when they owned it, I guess the former co CEO of Barney's who has this memoir coming out in September and we're running the, in the interview in September, but he and I were talking about like you sort of, you can't harp on the past. And your essay in your recent issue was about sort of nostalgia, the nostalgia Trap. And I was thinking about it in terms of the Alexander Wang sweatshirt, corseted sweatshirt that you sourced online, which was amazing. That collection was seminal for me for sure. Why do you think this is coming up right now? What did you talk about in your very concise note about it?

B (5:50)

Well, I think there's obvious political ties to that as well with Make America Great Again. But in general, we do romanticize things from the past so much. I mean, that Alex Wang's spring 2010 collection had a chokehold on me. Had a chokehold on you. Like, the response from people was huge. So there's those moments which are major. But then you reference Barney's. Like, I don't know. Barney's was not that good to me. I think what was good was, like, a period of time that a lot of people had where they could actually interact in a meaningful way with designer clothing that felt curated. And it was something. It was more about us and how we related to fashion and how we were able to access fashion in a particular space than. I think it really was Barney's, because, I mean, no huge shade to Barney's. Obviously, I did shop there, but when was it the best curation in the world? No. I mean, no, it wasn't. Was the store particularly inspiring visually? No. I mean, I do think that we overly romanticize things from the past all the time.

A (7:04)

I agree. I mean, what I would say is, I do think that at one point, Barney's was probably in the 90s when we weren't there. Also, when I first moved to New York, I would say it was much. It felt much more comfortable for me to go in there than it did like, a Bergdorf or what have you. And also, that was the time when, like, Alex and Philip Lim and all those designers were coming up. And I remember my. It is. It's nostalgia. I remember the first thing I ever kind of designer stuff, I bought. I bought a male top there on sale. Jane Mail. And then I also got a little Philip Lim suit that I still have, the blazer. The skirt, unfortunately, got lost at a Carroll Gardens dry cleaner in 2009 or so. But it was, like, a very big deal for me. And yes, by that time, the sort of way that they operated had just been copied so much. And also, the business was already changing. So, yeah, I think the thing with the Barney stuff, that is so frustrating. And I don't. I don't know if Gina and I really got into this because he hasn't been there since the 90s. And this was. His book is really about his life and his life at Barney's. But the thing that I find frustrating about all this sort of Barney revival stuff is you're exactly right in that there's nothing good about it. Like, when Julie Gilhart did sort of curated, I hate that word, but she really did curate a pop up of kind of old Barney's designers and designers she would have had if she was, you know, a fashion director of a store today. And then it was sponsored by Hourglass Cosmetics, which sort of didn't make sense. But the reason it was special was because of Julie and people's love for Julie and their relationship with her. And seeing the sort of typefaces of the old type, Barney's typeface on everything there is just something sort of let's move on, let's do some. Let's give Julie, I mean, I don't know if she has any desire to do this, but like, let's give Julie money to be the fashion director of a new store with new ideas and all that. And there is just not enough looking forward as. As there needs to be in, in this world generally.

B (9:45)

Yeah, I mean, I wholeheartedly agree with that. And I think what's challenging right now is we're trying to roll back the clock in a lot of different ways. You know, I think we're seeing that in Hollywood too. Right. And, and it's just, I mean, I don't find the past that interesting. Some of it, yeah, we can learn from it. But do I want to re experience it again from a cultural standpoint, from a creativity standpoint?

A (10:13)

No.

B (10:14)

Like you learn from it, you build on it and you move on. You don't start removing bricks.

A (10:20)

But the problem with that, I think in this era is that there isn't as much creativity. There is. I was messaging with someone who is a creative person who's worked in the industry for, I don't know, 50 years or so. Real. A really well regarded person. And we were just sort of commiserating about someone who is one of the suits, essentially.

B (10:44)

Wow, this sounds like a real messy conversation that you have.

A (10:47)

Oh my God, it's so good. I love this person so much. But yes, it is. In every world that I frequent, this person is connected to it. And it's a complex conversation we were having. Wish I could say it all here, but it's not perfect.

B (11:01)

Can you invite this person to golf? Okay, we're playing golf.

A (11:04)

Yes. Okay, great. Oh, we need to, we need to start golfing for sure. But the, but the issue is that I think because there is so much technology change right now that, and everybody thought it was sort of like during the Internet, the technology changed and it did change everything, but that was just sort of the beginning of it. And now the Technology change is happening so fast that there is not really room for new ideas that aren't like everything's based on something old, but in the past it was like you had separation from the old thing to create something new. And now there's no separation. And it's. I think that's a huge part of this crisis, like generally creativity crisis, but also just in our world that we are so close to the past now that we don't have any separation from it. We can't look back and see that it, you know, what was wrong with it too. And that's really dangerous.

B (12:04)

Yeah, I think you're right. Because also, even for me, my relationship to the past, pre social media, let's say, was viewed with my own sort of rose colored lenses. Right. Like I remember what I wanted to remember from the past and I build on that, pull it forward and make something new. Now it's like you're in these weird algorithms where everyone's seeing the literal thing from the past all the time and so then you'll just see like a quote unquote new version, but it's just the same. And, and yeah, you know, I think that also ChatGPT, AI like all of that and, and our early dependence on it for so many people already is just it. It doesn't bode well for creativity.

A (12:57)

No, it doesn't. Hopefully something new will come out of it. Buying a car in Carvana was so easy, I was able to finance it through them. I just. Whoa, wait, you mean finance? Yeah, finance. Got pre qualified for a Carvana auto loan, entered my terms and shot from thousands of great car options all within my budget. That's cool. But financing through Carvana was so easy. Financed, Done. And I get to pick up my.

B (13:21)

Car from their Carvana vending machine tomorrow.

A (13:23)

Financed, right?

B (13:24)

That's what they said.

A (13:25)

You can spend time trying to pronounce financing or you can actually finance and buy your car.

B (13:29)

Today on Carvana financing, subject to credit approval. Additional terms and conditions may apply.

A (13:34)

Hey, it's Jill Schlesinger, CBS News business analyst, certified financial planner and host of the podcast Money Watch with Jill Schlesinger. It's a show where we answer your questions about your money, from investing to retirement and completing your taxes. I'll be your financial coach and help take the stress out of managing your money. Plus, we might even have a little fun along the way. Follow and listen to Money Watch with Jill Schlesinger on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaking of creativity, I wanted to talk to you today about your thoughts on Robin Gavin, the longtime fashion critic and current cultural critic at the Washington Post, leaving. But it was interesting. I was coming in here talking to my husband. He said, oh, who are you talking to today? I said, aurora. And he. He is actually. He reminded me. So it's been months since I read it. But he is listening to Robin's book about Virgil Abloh, and he said, oh, you know, Aurora has. Plays a big role in it with the, you know, Robin. I said, oh, yeah, I. I remember that. And I think Virgil represented to me at least, this gap between the realities of how people process information today and the way you can. And creativity and how you can be creative in a modern way. And I don't know, I guess I'm curious what you think about his sort of role in the continuum of what's happening creatively. And second part is, what's your relationship like with Robyn? Are you a big reader of hers? How do you feel about the fact that she won't have that platform anymore? I'm sure she'll have another one. Who knows where she'll end up, but. Curious.

B (15:33)

Yeah. I mean, I deeply miss Virgil as a human and his body of work as well, because I would absolutely love to see his commentary on everything that's going on right now. It's deeply missed. I think there was an irony to some of his work as well that was helpful in processing for me. Anyways, I'm very happy that Robin took on that book, and he's such a seminal figure in culture and fashion, and she's the perfect person to write it. I'm shocked and saddened that she's leaving the Washington Post, but I'm also extremely excited to see what she's gonna do next. Obviously, she must have some sort of plan. I was grateful when she became a culture critic instead of just a fashion critic. Not to deride fashion in any way, but her voice and her way of thinking and being and processing and sharing, I think is so huge that we just need to have her in as much of a way and commenting on as many different things as possible. So, yeah, I'm excited to see what's next for her. I would love another book.

A (16:50)

Yeah, she makes. I agree. I was really excited when she broadened her scope because she's really good at observing people and sort of getting to the heart of why a person is the way they are. And that's often in the current role. Politicians and sort of broader cultural figures. But, yeah, I think whatever it's really, she didn't have to take this. Like, a lot of the people who work there have to take this because it's probably their only chance of, you know, getting. As she said in her post, it was a good amount of money and if you've worked there for 10 years, this could be sort of your way out of a situation that I think there is a lot of opportunity at the Washington Post, but it's going to be a really tough few years and. And she left once before to work at the Daily Beast, and then she was at the Cut and then ended up going back. And yeah, I think it is, in a way, very brave of her. Not because she won't be able to find a million other places to share her work. She will. She's best in class. But more because that's the safety of somewhere where you know that you have security or what have you. So it's really exciting and we wish her the best. I hope she's been on the podcast before she comes back on and I'm really excited to see where she takes it. And I hope she also enjoys this time just talking about the book with people. She has lots of book tour stuff and different appearances and things. And the other thing when you're, you know, she has to file. I think her filing day is Tuesdays in the afternoon, once a week, forever. When you don't have that for a while, it. I think it really can change her perspective and also give her time to think about what book is next because it's been interesting. I read the book in, in the spring and then having my husband read it, who knows a lot about the fashion industry because of, you know, being married to me. But he's really enjoyed it and, and I think the book is going to have a really long tail as well.

B (19:20)

Is there one topic that you wish that she would write her next book about?

A (19:24)

That's a good question. I think honestly, I would love something about the culture of Washington, D.C. simply because it's not the, you know, people are politics junkies, but for people who don't, it is. It's much. It's all these sort of company towns or industry really like specific industries. The way people operate there is so different than anything I've ever experienced in my life because of. It's just a very unique place. And I don't know if it's a history or if it's right now or what it is, but something about how people are there and how they. It's just a very different way of thinking than anywhere that I. Any kind of worlds I frequent. And so I would be interested in something just having that experience of being there for so long. But also she lived in New York for a long time. She's from. I believe she's from Michigan. Having that I think would be interesting. I'm sure she gets pitched to do a Michelle Obama book a lot, but I think that's probably talking about nostalgia too much in the past.

B (20:55)

Yeah. I don't know that we need that from her. And I agree. I think a Washington book would be great. I would love her perspective on that.

A (21:05)

What would you want?

B (21:11)

You know, actually, I guess I would blend somewhere between the two. I think that she could do a really great job sort of examining fashion's relationship to politics.

A (21:23)

Yeah.

B (21:24)

You know, because they think that there's a lot there and people don't think about that as much. But you know, when we think about even like Anna or Tori or Lauren Santo Domingo, I mean there is a lot of bleed and that could make for an interesting book.

A (21:43)

Yeah. And she is certainly the authority of it.

B (21:45)

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A (22:56)

Speaking of fashion and politics, where are you at with all this tariff stuff? How tough? I know you run like 15 businesses.

B (23:05)

But yeah, I mean the tariffs are true. Hell, I think when I think about the tariffs I really think of the CFDA and our responsibility There, to be honest with you. And when people ask, like, you know, what the CFDA is working on, what the CFDA does, I think we think so much about programming, and people don't really think about issues like the tariffs, which is what's keeping me awake at night as it relates to American designers and our ability to sort of compete in the marketplace right now, which is already so hard with fast fashion brands and all of that jazz. So I think, to me, it's really trying to figure out how can we get some carve outs here. And it's tough because the tariffs are such a moving target. No one really wants to make huge moves because he just changes his mind all the time. Every day is a new day.

A (24:01)

Every.

B (24:02)

Every week is a different country that gets some crazy tariff or lack thereof. So it's really challenging, but I think it's absolutely critical that apparel. And it's already so hard to produce in America.

A (24:26)

Yeah.

B (24:28)

If he doesn't understand, I don't know. I'm pretty speechless on it. But nevertheless, we need a break.

A (24:38)

Yeah. We've barely covered it because of the fact that I just am. Like. We say one thing. We don't have advice on this. Let's cover this as much as we can from the perspective that. That we can give new insights when available. But I think what this is really gonna do. We both know that, like, equipment is not available. The thing that I think people don't understand is, like, there is equipment that costs, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars that has not been available in this country for decades. And it's not like that money. Money is gonna just. It's just impossible. There's no reshoring or what?

B (25:21)

No, no. I mean, it's ridiculous. And it would also be so expensive. Who are you gonna hire? You know, who are you gonna hire to make all of this stuff?

A (25:28)

Exactly. Especially as. As everyone who would want the job is being escorted out of the country. So, I mean, to me, it's. I don't. I don't. I don't try to say I know if there's, like, a big grand plan, but it's just gonna weaken the country and we. And weaken the people who work at work at these places and run these businesses. And that is, to me, the dangerous thing is the sort of weakening of the overall system by implementing these outrageous things. And so it's frustrating and it must be. Yeah. You just. You have a lot of. A lot of weight on your shoulders at a lot of different angles. I understand why you are enjoying your Time on the weekends, thrifting. Yeah.

B (26:21)

I mean, even because there's something called Agoa, which is our Free Trade Agreement, or was our Free Trade agreement with a lot of African countries that was. I mean, Brother Valleys would not be what it is today if Agoa didn't exist, you know, And I've been writing letters and doing everything I can in support of. Of Agoa for years. And I'm so grateful that we've been able to do free trade with these, you know, African countries that really need the work. And the idea that that's also gone is crazy.

A (26:52)

Yeah. Yes. Maybe we can talk about one fun thing.

B (26:58)

Okay, so it's not going to be Travis Kelce's GQ cover. Right.

A (27:03)

We don't have to. Do you want to talk? Okay.

B (27:05)

That one's not fun. That's why.

A (27:08)

Well, what. So it did give. I loved it, but you did.

B (27:13)

Why? Tell me what. What did it. What did it bring up in you? Did you love it? Like, as a woman and you're like, no, I'm.

A (27:19)

I'm not. I personally am not into him. Like, he's a. He's a cute guy, but I don't understand, like, how you could he see. He does not seem. He's not. He's not for me. But no, I'm not. Like, I didn't think he looked, like, cute on it or whatever. I hope no one thought he looked sexy. But I would say, here is why I liked it. A. I loved the styling. I love that they pulled Law Roach to do it. Like, it was so funny and. And it was just so. It was really the, like, Law Roach's talents. I. That's the best. I mean, obviously he does an amazing job with Zendaya, but this is the best site thing I've ever seen. Like, the push pull between the two I really love was very good.

B (28:05)

That was very good. And there was a humor to it that I really appreciated.

A (28:09)

Yeah. And I also thought that the thing about magazines now is it's all studio shots. It's all studio or it's in the city or whatever. There are very few covers that aren't like that, that aren't, you know, aren't just super standardized. And they went on location and they obviously didn't go on fancy location. They went to like, I swamps and stuff. And that, to me, it showed an ambition of, we have a limited budget. How can we make this special and unique? And that, to me, was. Was exciting. What did you not like about it? That it looked like the January 6th.

B (28:57)

Guy literally that, like, I opened my Instagram and I was like, ah, like, what is this? And listen, I'm not visually familiar enough with Travis Kelce to look at that cover and be like, oh, it's Travis Kelce. So I was just like, is this a weird January 6th cover? Like, it literally was that for me, that threw me off. And then I don't know when I compare that to like Mikayla Cole's cover, which is just like so divine, you know?

A (29:25)

Yeah.

B (29:25)

I mean, they serve very different purposes. But to your point, the styling on that GQ story that Law did was phenomenal and really fun.

A (29:34)

It was really fun. I did like the Michaela Cole cover a lot in Alaia on British Vogue. I thought it was really special and was the first cover that Shoma has done that I was like, what? Wow. This is, this is like what, what she wants to do with this magazine is coming through and that's very exciting.

B (29:57)

I agree. I totally agree.

A (29:59)

So you didn't look at the Taylor Swift Life as a Showgirl album cover? No.

B (30:07)

It's funny, Lauren. That doesn't make it into my algo.

A (30:10)

I understand. You know, it barely makes it into mine. Aurora. Really? No, I'm not. It's not my vibe. Yeah.

B (30:16)

I don't know. I mean, I love, I love all of this for Taylor. It's just to me, some of this feels like a distraction and I don't know, it's like, what is she supposed to do? Not put out an album? I think we need it economically, to be honest. We need her on tour. But also, I don't know, there's just a lot going on in society right now. I mean, if. If her being on tour means that she's going to engage in a little bit more political commentary right now that the Swifties can tune into, then, then I'm all for it.

A (30:51)

Okay, here is a final question for you that is extremely deep and you won't be able to answer in less than like 45 minutes. But do you think it really works? What works now to get people to change their minds or act? Because that is the thing that I don't understand. Other than if you have an influential podcast that seems to help a little bit, but that's still not that many people. Like, people think these podcasts are changing.

B (31:23)

No.

A (31:23)

Shifting elections. There's not that many people listening to them. There's a good amount, but it's not. You're listening to like minded people on podcasts. Your mind isn't getting changed.

B (31:33)

Yeah. If you're listening to podcasts, you're probably already a registered voter.

A (31:39)

Yes. And so what do you think? Do you really think someone like Taylor Swift being more politically active can help?

B (31:50)

I think it depends on how. How she does it and when she does it.

A (31:54)

Right.

B (31:55)

I think that people are inherently kind of selfish. Right. So if they realize that there's issues that are specifically connected to them and their lives that are actually going to be impacted, then it can help.

A (32:10)

Right.

B (32:11)

It's like, who is. Who. Who is the big podcaster that's, like, so upset about IVF that voted for Trump? Andrew Schultz, I guess, like, if you take someone like that where he's like, yeah, I mean, Trump's crazy. He wants all these things that are crazy. But he said he was going to help with ivf, and, like, me and my wife really needed that. You know, IVF is important. People have to feel, like, really personally connected to a topic.

A (32:37)

Yeah.

B (32:37)

And I think that Taylor's good at understanding, like, what, you know, her girls are really lit up by. So, yeah, I mean, I think it all has to work together. I think there's no one podcast that's gonna solve the issue. But when you watch a show like Love island, for example, it's very easy for you to realize that, like, so many Americans just couldn't care less. It's not even on their radar at all. So there has to be different inroads to make people want to care, to show up in some capacity.

A (33:12)

Okay, final question. Do you think that if the cost of stuff keeps rising, people will finally realize that all these policies are not good for them?

B (33:23)

Yes, I do. Yes, I do. I think they will. He is smart, though, so, you know, he's very good at spin. And I think a lot of the problems that he's creating, we're actually not going to feel for a few more years. And I think he's gamed out that timing very well.

A (33:47)

Rora, thank you for being here. I'll probably see you in a couple weeks in New York at something.

B (33:52)

Yes, absolutely. We'll see you soon. So Fun.

A (33:56)

Fashion People is a pretty presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman, and Bob Tabador. You say you'll never join the Navy, that living on a submarine would be too hard. You'd never power a whole ship with nuclear energy, never bring a patient back to life or play the national anthem for a sold out crowd. Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Start your journey@navy.com America's Navy forged by the sea.