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- [00:00]
Lauren Sherman
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- [02:29]
Bryn Walner
Bonsoir.
- [02:32]
Lauren Sherman
Bonsoir. Where are you coming from? Where you. You just landed in New York, I hear.
- [02:38]
Bryn Walner
Yes, apparently back on the Upper east side, where I just moved, I've heard it's a. It's a big.
- [02:43]
Lauren Sherman
It's very trendy.
- [02:45]
Bryn Walner
It's very trendy, yes. So I'm in New York in my new apartment, but I'm also fresh from Geneva, where I was for A whole week for Watches and Wonders, which is my biggest work week of the year, and also that of the entire watch industry.
- [03:05]
Lauren Sherman
So what did Watches and Wonders used to have a different name?
- [03:09]
Bryn Walner
Yeah, so it used to be S I h S I H H. But then there was also Baselworld. So these are separate trade shows and SIHH was run by Richemont and Baselworld was everything else. And then this was before my time because I came into the watch industry in 2020. But you know, I heard that there were some murmurings about things that just weren't working and it was getting too overcrowded at Basel. And then the pandemic hit and it was kind of the chance to hit the reset button. Um, so they kind of merged and there in 2022, watches and wonders was born. And that's most of the watch brands, excluding the Swatch group, which is Omega and Longines and other brands. But over 60 brands were exhibiting this year, which is, I think a record high. Oh yeah.
- [04:12]
Lauren Sherman
Are there a lot of new brands right now coming out or are they all. Or are there brands that are old that are sort of being dusted off? Like what? Why were there so many?
- [04:25]
Bryn Walner
Yeah, that's a good question. That I don't even know myself. I know that there are lots of new brands, micro brands, independence, but then older brands that are kind of getting revitalized. But like I said, I'm still new ish to the industry. So my priority is like the big heritage brands whenever I'm there. Because obviously you can't see 60 brands in a week. And most people are only there like four days maximum because then it turns into the public days, which is also a new thing. Like this has always been a trade only thing. Journalists, retailers, buyers. And now there are two, I think three additional days that have been tacked on in the past couple years for the public. And those have been really high traffic days and people have to pay to go. It's not invitation only, so it's kind of indicative of like watches gaining this bigger presence in the popular imagination and becoming really a destination.
- [05:28]
Lauren Sherman
That's so interesting. Is it like sort of like the Detroit car show?
- [05:34]
Bryn Walner
I've never been, but I heard American cars are coming back.
- [05:40]
Lauren Sherman
I guess. I guess so. Depends on what happens tomorrow or. And the day after and the day after. Every day's different.
- [05:47]
Bryn Walner
Every day. What a surprise. And I was wondering how long we'd get in this conversation with them without mentioning the big T word.
- [05:54]
Lauren Sherman
Oh my God. I don't know what you're talking about.
- [06:00]
Bryn Walner
Neither do the Swiss watch brands.
- [06:03]
Lauren Sherman
That's interesting. So. So what did. Because you watches and wonders that it fell right amid April, April 2, Liberation Day, the day where all these tariffs were announced, including a 20% blanket on the EU that I'm still unconvinced. We're recording this Sunday night. And this weekend, Musk was like, you know, there just shouldn't be any taxes between the EU and the us So I was like, oh, we'll see what happens on. On April 9th. Right? Or whatever. But what was the reaction when you were going around to the different brands, talking to people? Was everyone just talking about tariffs the whole time or were they not super worried about it?
- [06:48]
Bryn Walner
Yeah, I mean, the Swiss watch industry is not one to wear their heart on their sleeve. And there's not a lot of, you know, people are acknowledging that this is a looming threat. And obviously, you know, it's written on the wall. It's. If you look at the charts, Switzerland is going to be hit with a 31% levy. And so that's pretty high. And so, you know, people seem to be spooked. And it's really depending on who you're talking to. Like, I was talking to a smaller brand and he's like, I asked him straight off, I'm like, what are you doing to protect yourself? And he's like, well, we sent all our orders out early because if they're in transit, they can't be affected before April 9, and we're just gonna hope for the best. But then what you were kind of saying earlier, it's like, you really just can't predict what's gonna happen. It's kind of like the TikTok bait and switch. Like, who knows? Who knows who's shaking hands with who behind the scenes? Like, this could all turn out to be, you know, be reversed. And it's just one day at a time, as the alcoholics like to say.
- [08:04]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. Oh, I think this is the first AA reference ever on fashion, people.
- [08:10]
Bryn Walner
Oh, my God.
- [08:12]
Lauren Sherman
So interestingly, I was talking to someone today who brought up the point. Yes, I was. It's Sunday and I was talking to someone about work. You know, this job, you just, you know, it never ends. We love my work so much. So one thing that was mentioned that I thought was a really good point in terms of luxury, this person was like, I don't think that the luxury brands and watches are a little different, so we could kind of go into how they're priced, but I don't think the luxury brands are going to the prediction was like most of the prices are going to go up about 10%. And the idea is like, yeah, that's not, it's not nothing. But right now I was looking at Alaia dresses on my Teresa today and they were all like 3,500, $4,000. So what's another 400 bucks onto that? Like that type of thing? And then also the landing cost of these things is different than obviously what the customer pays. So what a lot of these retail brands do is they sell the product to their American subsidiary. So say a chanel bag costs $2,500. Chanel US may only be paying, I don't know, $1800 for it or, or whatever. The point being that the, the taxes are going to actually be lower. It's not going to be on the, the full price or even the price that they're, they're sending to wholesalers. So say they're charging, say a bag costs $5,000 and they're charging the retailer 2,500 for it. In a wholesale deal, they're only, their subsidiary is only paying 1,800. So you really only get to get, putting that new tax or that new tariff on the $1,800, not the 5,000. So it's, I mean it's not nothing, but it is something to think about with luxury goods. I think with, with cheaper stuff, it's not as, it's not as easy, but yeah. Do you think with watches, because watches are so particular and they're so, the way they, they control the distribution so in such a specific way that a lot of people who buy watches will just buy them in Europe or, or kind of get around it.
- [10:52]
Bryn Walner
Yeah. I was sharing a cab to the airport with an editor this morning, the Geneva airport, and he was like, you know, these high net worth clients, these are the people who are buying, you know, $15,000 and up watches, which I feel like $15,000 is even on the low end these days for, for the, for the big watches. You know, they can just buy them in Europe, so why even go to the U.S. but what makes this interesting is that since 2021, since the pandemic, the U.S. has emerged as the Swiss luxury watch industry's highest consumer group. So the biggest amount of Swiss watch exports are going to the US and we superseded China after the pandemic. So you know, what does that mean if all of a sudden the US went from the highest consumer group to now we're buying these watches elsewhere? Like, I don't know what happens in that Weird dynamic.
- [11:58]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. It means that Europe is same thing with luxury goods generally. I think that 2022 was Louis Vuitton's like best year in the US ever. And LVMH became a one. It was sort of battling with China in the late 2000 and tens overall. LVMH AS. AS US and China split in terms of what was a bigger market. I think now US is bigger again or was and we'll see. But yeah, it's. It's a real. It's a real problem. What do you attribute other than you and Dime Piece? Because you definitely have inspired a new generation, not only of women, I would say of men too, to think about watches. And we've seen sort of a move away from just buying fashion in the first half of the 2000s to buying hard luxury jewelry and watches. And I think as people, you know, on the wealthier end, their wealth amassed and they got all that crypto money, they were like, I want to spend it on something that'll last. But what do you attribute it to? I have this theory that the Apple Watch came out in, I believe 2014 and a lot of people who had never owned watches bought them. And it took me. I got one. I had never worn a watch as an adult, really, not even as a younger person. I had tried but never got into it. And I wore the Apple watch up until 2021. And then it started weirdly. Even though I was at home, maybe because I was on Zoom all the time, I started to feel like I had outgrown. And I got the Hermes Apple Watch, which I like, it's super lovely band and everything. But by 2022 I turned 40 and got one, so. And now I never wear the Apple watch. I went for a run today and I was like, I don't wanna even. I wanted to do speed work. But I was like, you know what, I actually don't care. Cause I don't wanna start getting. It's summer in LA already. So I'm just curious from your perspective, like what do you. You started diamond piece in 2020. How did you get into watches? And what do you think the sort of turning point was for this new generation of collectors to come about?
- [14:22]
Bryn Walner
Yeah. So how I got onto watches? I mean, before 2019, I didn't even know any watch brand besides Rolex. I mean, Rolex is the household name. And even then I didn't know anything about Rolex other than my dad had one in the 80s. And I think I knew of its presence abstractly sitting in Some, you know, drawer gathering dust. He never even wore it. So I got a job at Sotheby's in 2019. I was on their editorial team and I was brought on to create content to bring a younger audience onto their website. And the watches department saw what I was doing and wanted me to kind of give that treatment to that category because, you know, in the grand scheme of the auction world, watches are easier to buy and ship and, you know, maybe they're less money than a Picasso. And so they kind of were like, okay, you can create some cool content around watches. I commissioned out all that writing, but I had to edit these pieces and learn about them and learn about these, these greatest of all time watches. And I became very fascinated by them. I think it was a mixture of like, history and culture and style. And also it just, it just, it's so rich. And so I became fascinated by them. I started seeing them everywhere in TV shows and movies and on the subway. And yet I was shocked that it took me this long to get into watches. And I was about to turn 30 and I was like, how is it that I don't even have a watch on my radar as a 30th birthday present? Like, I'm not even aspiring to own one. How did the industry screw up this bad? Because I'm looking at myself as a representative of a demographic that's, you know, about to turn 30. I live in New York City. I have this great job, and how is it that none of my friends and I care about watches? Like, that's a huge mess. And I do think it's been very male dominated, of course. But also, I think the advertising has been pretty uninspiring. And so to bring it to the pandemic, I got let go by Sotheby's. They got acquired by Patrick Drahi, and a ton of people got let go. I got let go the day of the pandemic. Big introduction in New York City, like when people were starting to line up at grocery stores. But Sotheby's shout out, they gave me some. They gave me some severance. And so I had time to really think about what I wanted to do and reprioritize. And I was about to turn 30, like I said. So I said, I want to watch. And I started dimepiece kind of as a personal research project. Like, I didn't know what to buy. I had no idea what my taste was. And I also knew there was a gap in the market for women in watches and kind of content created towards that. And Before I knew it, I was getting hit up by Nikki Ognake at Harper's Bazaar, and she wants me to be their monthly watch columnist. And I'm like, oh, shit, now I really need to learn about watches. But kind of, you know, since then, I launched a website. I've written for numerous different outlets. This is my fourth watches and wonders. And, you know, in 2021, there was this huge spike in prices of watches on the secondary market. So as I was coming into the watch world, just by chance, the pandemic hit, and wealthy people are starting to spend a lot more money on watches. You're seeing, you know, records breaking at auction across the board. This is huge. Like, you know, Patek Philippe Nautilus, which would retail for $35,000, is going for like, like $235,000. And people are seeing this and their eyes are popping out of their skulls and it's all these headlines. And then we have the pandemic where people are like, what does it all mean? And somebody like you who's had an Apple watch and, you know, a lot of watch people, or a lot of people like to assume that watch people hate the Apple watch. But I think that, Lauren, your. Your instinct is correct here, that it's actually a win for the industry and that it got watches on people's wrists. So, yeah, you know, in this time when we don't need wristwatches. So, yeah, but the pandemic kind of induced screen burnout. The headlines that these watches were making, you know, creators quote unquote, such as myself on social media, presenting kind of like fresh perspectives on this very exclusive, very once very stuffy kind of industry and product is now being seen anew with all this buzz around it. And I think, you know, the pivot to hard goods, people just want something to invest in. And I don't know, when you bought your first watch, were you like, this might be a good investment for me? Did that even come into consideration?
- [19:31]
Lauren Sherman
It definitely did. It was kind of a thing. Weirdly, I don't know if it's living in New York for all those years and also being a fashion writer from the beginning and writing about luxury goods. From the beginning. From the beginning. I have very little price sensitivity when it comes to clothes and handbags and shoes and things like I'm. I. Which doesn't make sense because they. They depreciate a very rare. Does a handbag maybe will appreciate. I bought a chanel bag in 2010. I bet that that is much more valuable than it. Like, I Could probably sell it for more than I paid. But generally that's not the case. I would say that moving to Los Angeles and having a home and thinking more about things, also, I don't need any more clothes. And the clothes got less interesting. I mean, the intersection of the clothes and the handbags and stuff getting less interesting intersected with the pandemic. Intersected with people wanting to spend more money on their homes and furniture and things. And then also, if I'm gonna buy something. Yeah, I don't. I would. I would love for it to have a value at some point. But I also feel I know enough about diamonds, for instance, to know everything is a construct. So it. But it definitely was a thing of, like, if I'm gonna buy myself something. And this was my birthday gift for my 40th. But, like, if I definitely want more watches now, I wanna get a couple other. But I would do vintage. I did. I just went. My husband just went to the store and bought one for me. I don't think I would do that again. I probably do secondhand. But, yeah, I think that, like, it just felt like you said, it's very rich. That can mean a lot of things. But the one thing it means is the experience is richer. Like, the feeling. Every time I put that watch on, I feel really good, and it feels special. And I don't have a lot of fancy jewelry. I have, like, one gold necklace that's not super fancy. My wedding ring, my engagement ring, I love them, but they're not fancy at all. But that watch is like. And it's, you know, it's modest, but it feels really special and makes me feel good in a way that, like, a piece of fashion probably can't anymore. And I think a lot of people feel that way.
- [22:03]
Bryn Walner
Yeah, I mean, I feel the exact same way. It's. It's the cherry on top of my outfit. And it's kind of the elevator because I'm like you. I don't have a ton of jewelry.
- [22:15]
Lauren Sherman
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- [22:45]
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- [23:26]
Lauren Sherman
So we have a couple other topics I wanted to dig into with you. But first off, if you are chatting on your friend on the phone on the way home from the airport, what were the sort of big picture other than the big T? What were the other T? What were the trends that you saw? What were. Did any brand really stand out to you specifically of like winning this week? It's funny, I had a friend who went to Cinemacon this week, which is another trade show where the. And Matt Bellany, my colleague at Puck, did a podcast about this, but with my friend Amanda. But they basically all the studios go and present trailers of the movies they're gonna have to the movie theaters. Oh, sounds awesome. I was like, I would like to go to this trade show, it's in Vegas. But so what were the big. And they had, they had their big takeaway of what happened at Cinemacon. But what were the big trends from Watches and Wonders? Like what did you take away from the week?
- [24:27]
Bryn Walner
Yeah, absolutely. Well, if I was on the phone with my friend, if I were on the phone with my friend, I would set the scene first. So just to give the outsiders an idea of what Watches and Wonders is like, the scale is just mind boggling. So you're at this trade show kind of convention center, maybe like a million times the size of the Javits center, and you walk in and everything is dialed. Like you have these people, these greeters in uniforms. You have super high security. It's all kind of facial recognition, people with signs. All the shuttle buses are taken care of. There's a cloak room, there's a place where you could put your suitcases. There's security. It's like before you even walk in past the security area, it's already a huge production. And then you walk in and it's. People call them booths, but booth is such a small word compared to what you're actually seeing, which is these structures that the brands have built that are only supposed to last for the week. And they're the size of houses. So the Rolex and the Patek Philippe booths, quote unquote, are multi story buildings. They're bigger than brownstones in Brooklyn. And they have full on reception centers and people greeting you and plants and running water and you know, there are stairs and different rooms and you have to check in. And then you're swept past the reception area into a waiting area and then you go into a smaller room and you see the quote unquote novelties, which is what we're all gathered around to see, which are the novelties. And so you take the Rolex novelties, and these are arguably always the biggest of the year. They're the, they're the ones that everybody anticipates, everybody wants to see what Rolex is coming out with. Rolex had a really interesting new product this year called the Land Dweller. So you may have heard of the Sea Dweller. And then in 2012, Rolex introduced the Sky Dweller. And now for the first time since 2012, this is a completely new Rolex model and it's called the Land Dweller. And it's this 70s inspired design. It's kind of a baby. If the oyster quartz and a datejust had a baby, it would be the Land Dweller. And it's got this fancy new bracelet and this beautiful new movement and everybody was kind of losing their minds over that, in part because it was leaked. So this is another thing about watches and wonders and just the luxury world in general, but I feel like the word embargo is like tattooed in my mind. And you don't want to break the embargo, and yet some people do. So prior to the Land Dweller release, the official release, I don't know who, but somebody leaked these really blurry, kind of sad photos of the watch. And I think it's funny and yeah, and this kind of happens, but it's always a little disappointing and like everybody's just like. But then it kind of like sets the rumor mill aflame, like, what is that new watch? And then Rolex had kind of a controlled leak where it was Roger Federer wearing the Land Dweller, like petting a puppy or something. I forget this was a week ago. I don't even remember the image. But so we kind of knew what was coming. And then you get to see him in person or in the metal, as the watch nerds like to call it.
- [28:05]
Lauren Sherman
In the metal.
- [28:07]
Bryn Walner
In the metal. So I mean, the lingo is Crazy, but yeah. So the Lamb Dweller, I think, was the biggest release of the fair. And it's, you know, it's polarizing. And I will say that, you know, if you look at the history of watchmaking, all the huge heavy hitters now, like the Audemars Piguet Royal Oak or the Patek Philippe Nautilus, the fans were not fans of these watches. And now these are the, you know, the most important watches that you could buy today, fetching the highest on the secondary market. So we'll see what happens with the Land Dweller. But it's polarizing for sure. The way that it looks. I think it's a very loud watch. The dial itself is. Is very loud and kind of flashy. And this is not something subtle. This is not stealth wealth. This is not what you would wear if you're wearing the Row. But then there's also the Cartier. You know, the Cartier releases, they always have a ton that, that appointment always lasts like an hour because there are so many different watches to look at. And the big showstopper from the Cartier bunch was a watch called the Tank Guiche, which. Parlez vous francais.
- [29:18]
Lauren Sherman
A little. I speak LVMH French.
- [29:22]
Bryn Walner
Moi. Oc. You already know. Anyway, guiche means window. So it's like this kind of fanciful design from 1928, reimagined for now. And it's a jumping hour complication, which we don't even need to get in the weeds with that. But just know that the Tankai Guiche was Cartier's biggest launch this year. And so what's everybody's talking about? And, you know, I can go on and on.
- [29:49]
Lauren Sherman
Well, you mentioned the. You wouldn't wear that Rolex watch with. With a look from the Row. And I did want to talk to you about these. These Row. These flip flops from the row that are $690. But before that, what pricing wise? Like I. You mentioned that 15,000 is not that much for a watch in. In the grand scheme of things at this point. Has the pricing gotten crazy the way it has with. With luxury goods in the last few years?
- [30:26]
Bryn Walner
Yeah, and I've been wanting to kind of dig more deeply into this. I know that the pricing has gone up on the primary market, so I think that the. The Land Dweller, for example, the lowest price reference of that, it's steel and it's 13,300. But it gets tricky because you see that price and you're like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah, for a new Rolex. But. And you may know this and the listeners may know this, but you can't just go into a Rolex boutique and buy a Rolex. Like it's, it's not, it's not happening for you because you're not in the system. It's. It's the Hermes Birkin bag model you have.
- [31:09]
Lauren Sherman
Is there any. Because there you can go into Hermes and get certain bags.
- [31:14]
Bryn Walner
Yeah.
- [31:14]
Lauren Sherman
In certain stores. Not every store, but there are certain. I know someone who bought an Hermes and was like, I just walked in and I said, well, show me which bag you bought. And they showed me and I was like, well, that's why. But I'm not gonna say which bag it was. But, but all Hermes bags are great. But, but is. Is like could you buy. Because when my, my husband did not buy me a Rolex, he bought me. But from one of the big houses of a watch that I think. Yeah. A watch that I would think would not be. That would be desirable to women who have seen Challengers. If you want to have a hint. But. But is it that you just can't buy any or can you go in and will there be some models?
- [32:03]
Bryn Walner
There will be some. Maybe like one lady's watch kind of sitting sadly.
- [32:07]
Lauren Sherman
Got it.
- [32:07]
Bryn Walner
Corner with her diamonds.
- [32:10]
Lauren Sherman
Got it. Nothing that you, either of us would want to buy or, you know, maybe.
- [32:14]
Bryn Walner
You and I would want that watch. But a big collector or you know, like a watch guy or even just a guy with $15,000 to spend on a, on a submariner, which, you know, even I don't know how many years ago, like seven years ago you could just walk in and buy that watch. And now, now it's out of the question. So. Yeah, but you, you kind of get yourself into the system, you get yourself on a wait list and it's kind of luck of the draw. Or, or not.
- [32:44]
Lauren Sherman
Oh man. Well, best of luck to everybody who's trying to buy watches.
- [32:49]
Bryn Walner
Yeah. And you know those, who knows where those tariffs where we're going to feel them. And also it's going to hit the secondary market as well.
- [32:59]
Lauren Sherman
So.
- [33:01]
Bryn Walner
We'Ll see.
- [33:05]
Lauren Sherman
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- [33:21]
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- [33:52]
Lauren Sherman
So moving back to the real the third mention of the episode or fourth I wanted to discuss with you. The style section did a very fun conversation between Jacob Gallagher, Stella Bugby, his editor and then Misty Weissiedel who is their shopping columnist. Misty and Jacob have both been on Fashion People. Misty used to write for me years ago, so I've known them all three of them for a long time. But they had a nice conversation about these flip flops from the row that look like Havaianas but really good colors. They are $690. Check them out. I am just curious. They had a very interesting conversation. It was edited and it was clearly very tight. The way it was organized I don't have. I would say I'm a person that if I like something and I do think the ROE does the best version of everything, I will buy it even if the price seems a little crazy. If I can afford it, not go into Deb, be able to pay my son's tuition. Like maybe I will partake. But I would say that like, I don't know, you live in New York City. It feels like a repeat of the jellies from last summer where everybody's jellies were falling apart. I haven't lived in New York for five years, but all I know is that my shoes last so much longer now than they used to. I can wear. I have four inch heels that I wear occasionally. It's just made my life so much richer from a shoe perspective because. But I just don't know in a world. I also hate flip flops and I would never wear them in any circumstance ever because they're so uncomfortable to me. But do you think this is going too far?
- [35:54]
Bryn Walner
I mean it does feel like they're laughing at us kind of, doesn't it?
- [35:59]
Lauren Sherman
But. But the one thing I will say is that one of them, and I can't identify which one has been photographed in these. So I don't know if they actually buy anything from themselves. I assume they do, probably at a very deep discount. I don't think they just usually with these kinds of companies you still have to make a purchase even if you're the owner. But I don't think the upper is fabric, which is nice. The lining is rubber, the sole is rubber Insole and sole. So Made in Italy. Yeah. So I don't think they're not terrible. They're not like bad bad. They're not gonna be junky. But also, made in Italy can mean a lot of things. Like you could just buy the, the materials and then assemble them in Italy. Italy. But would you engage with these even on the secondhand market?
- [36:58]
Bryn Walner
Well, no, because kind of what you were saying with the jelly, like once it becomes a conversation piece and there's kind of a tea, you know, profile on it and then there's the, there's the cut article that's kind of like poking fun at it. And I just feel like it's just gonna become one of those things like the miu Miu, like super short skirt or something that you kind of see everywhere. So I personally wouldn't partake, but I wouldn't be surprised if I see them around. And I mean, I will say I know that mkna, they love their Havaianas. I feel like I still have my navy blue pair and that's somewhat influenced by them. And my mom, she's very loyal to her flip flops. So some people love flip flops. But yeah, I mean they're gonna get grimy though. And nyc, Yeah, I, I have resorted.
- [37:48]
Lauren Sherman
To buying black chocos because they're very similar to a style that Hermes did that I would have totally bought and was very high quality. I just never got around to it for whatever reason. But yes, I think the other thing that the row does is they do inspire people to buy Tevas or Chacos or whatever their, whatever like traditional shoe they are riffing on. They, they make that a bigger thing. And you know, every single brand that makes flip flops is going to do a red flip flop with a black strap.
- [38:26]
Bryn Walner
Yeah. In that way it's kind of exciting just to see the ripple effect.
- [38:30]
Lauren Sherman
For sure. I also, I will say I'm looking at them on my Teresa and they had like an, A style, this outfit and they had a pair of jeans that aglitta wide leg jean, which is, I actually think I own these in, I don't know, I own them in something. And then the white, the one thing I will say is the white T shirt, the row t shirt, $550. That honestly is not that much for a T shirt at this point. The Wall Street Journal did a thing about how there are thousand dollar T shirts. Everything is 500 for a T shirt is like the new 100 for a T shirt. So I have, I, I actually don't own any T shirts from the row, especially not any white. And I don't think I've ever owned a T shirt from the row unless I got it at, like, off price or something. Lowman's or something like that. But I'm looking at these T shirts and they've got, like a butter yellow one, they've got a cream one. They're really nice.
- [39:33]
Bryn Walner
Oh, you might turn into a row T shirt girly. I mean, I. I would absolutely never. I famously do not spend money on clothes and watches, so. Not famously, but people are always asking me what my next watch purchase is going to be, and I'm just like, I don't know. I don't think you feel you give.
- [39:53]
Lauren Sherman
Off a very East Coast I don't need to spend money person.
- [39:59]
Bryn Walner
Yeah, I mean, in a good.
- [40:01]
Lauren Sherman
I mean that in, like, huge compliment.
- [40:04]
Bryn Walner
I. I took it as a compliment, so thank you. And I mean, you know, I'm living on the Upper east side now.
- [40:12]
Lauren Sherman
That's the way to live. This is the way to be. You can't be spending money on silly, silly flip flops. Flip flop. So the one other thing I wanted to talk to you about, I thought it would be a fun conversation, was last week. The editor in chief of Vanity Fair, Radhika Jones, stepped down on Thursday. And it was very dramatic. And it's basically been the most fun story for me because I cover the media only from the sort of fashion media perspective, but essentially legacy publishing, which is mostly Conde Nast and a little bit of Hearst, and dip into Refinery 29 there every once in a while. But Radhiga stepped down. It was basically my texts, even today, like, every single person just wants to talk about this, has information, has theories. This is who it is. This is who it is. I wrote about it on Thursday in line sheet. Then I followed up on Friday in line sheet. Thursday's line sheet is for inner circle members only, so it's a higher tier of. Of subscription. So you. I used to only publish two days a week. Now I publish five days a week. If you want that Thursday day, you have to pay a little extra. So there were a lot of people who didn't realize I had also written about it on Thursday. And they were like, why didn't you mention this person on Friday when I had already mentioned them? So the reality is there are a lot of candidates. The candidate pool seems. I wouldn't say wide or deep, but it is filled. It's a small pool, but it's very crowded. I'm curious from your perspective. And there will be more on Monday because this is just. This story is a gift to me. So I'm looking forward to tracking the travails of Conde Nest and what happens with this media property. But who do you think would be a great editor in chief of Vanity Fair? Who would you like to see?
- [42:19]
Bryn Walner
Oh, well, I must admit that this is all news to me. I was deep in the trenches of the Watch world, hardly stepping out of that bubble. And then I. I realized I missed an email from you earlier today because I was literally at JFK customs, so. But, geez, I don't know. I'm like Willa Bennett. I don't know. I want to hear what you think.
- [42:47]
Lauren Sherman
Okay. So I've. It's been a journey.
- [42:50]
Bryn Walner
Okay.
- [42:50]
Lauren Sherman
At first, I really didn't know, and I was just. The first person that kind of came up in talking to people as a potential candidate is Mark Guiducci, who is the creative editorial director of Vogue. And he's worked at. He was an assistant at Vanity Fair years ago. He was the editor of Garage magazine when that existed. Adasha Zhukova owned it. He has been at Vogue for a long time. He's an interesting person. He kind of runs Vogue World. And also a lot of, I don't know, outside projects or things where you have to organize a lot of people and get a lot of people involved. So when there were, during the pandemic, when Vogue did that cover with a single rose or whatever, I think he was deeply. He's really involved in the covers. Like, he has a lot when there is. When you need to orchestrate things, he's really, really involved concept with concepts and coming up with, like, big ideas, that sort of thing. And he is definitely one of Anna's most important sort of inner circle at the moment. And whoever is the editor in chief of Vanity Fair will report to Anna and we'll be connected to her. And it sounded like there was just a lot of outside campaigning for him immediately. So I don't think it's out of the question. I don't think that we're recording this on Sunday. I don't think we will. And Radika is staying on through June. I don't think they have an answer yet. And I could be wrong. They could totally know. I have not spoken to Anna Wintour about it, but I think they have. They are thinking about it, and she's certainly thinking hard about it because she has made some wrong decisions in terms of hiring. One of the right decisions she's made is Promoting Will Welch to be editor in chief of GQ in 2018. Will was a very early. People started saying, oh, it's going to be. Maybe it'll be Will, maybe it'll be Will. And I initially really dismissed that because Will A is very important to the GQ brand. The GQ brand globally has had some challenges because of GQ China and troubles there that you can read about in line sheet. We don't need to go into here. But I just assumed he has too much on his plate. And I also see when you think about succession at Conde Nash generally, that will eventually replace Anna as the Chief Content Officer and sort of managing all the brands. But then another person mentioned to me, well, wouldn't it make sense for him to own Vanity Fair now and also still own GQ and own Pitchfork, which obviously is a tremendous amount of responsibilities. The pitchfork of it all. But so I think. And then there are the outside people are sort of Sarah Moonves, the editor of W magazine and is very close with Anna and is a potential. But she part owns W and so there would be. She need to figure that out. And I just see if she's going to do that and go back to Conde Nast. I just see her as the successor at Vogue. So I don't know if that is exactly it. But you never know. Like the. These people are smart. And then there are also ideas out of. I am a big fan of Stella Bugby's. I think she would be great. I've heard, I was told by people that the editor of New York Magazine, David Haskell, has already said he's not going to do it. So there are some outside players in my mind right now as we're speaking. Then there is also the chance that it is someone who no one is excited about because there have been a lot of appointments at Conde Nast that have not been exciting and have felt kind of not right. But I think now that I think about it more and have had more time, I think a whoever is in line is going to have to present a really ambitious idea about how they can make this magazine relevant again without even as much money as Radhika has had. So it's going to be do more with less and make it interesting and also make it palatable to advertisers. So that's a big project and someone is going to have to present in the same way I'm sure Willa Bennett did when she went to Cosmo Presents something really impressive. And I think they're going to have to want it very, very badly, I'd say on paper, if no one was doing a project, the smartest thing for Anna to do would be to give Will Vanity Fair and then let Will put someone at GQ us who he really trusts. But he still be the sort of global content officer of Vanity Fair, GQ and Pitchfork. And so that seems like from a business perspective, Will is a proven quantity. From business, he's been very successful. He did the right thing with gq. He made it an enthusiast magazine instead of being general interest. And that worked. He'd have to figure out the right point of view for Vanity Fair in this era. But I do think at this point in time, he feels like the right person. That said, they could end up hiring someone who is an unknown and just kind of let Vanity Fair shrink even further. But my money right now, I think, is on Will. But it also depends if he really wants it. I heard from people this weekend that said he's going for it, it's happening, but, you know, this is just speculation for now. And so his life would change again. So we'll see. And Radhika, who by all accounts, essentially, except for some people who work there who would like to believe that she got fired, by all accounts, she did quit and has been thinking about quitting for the last year. But I think it's was the kind of quitting where what choice did she really have? And so I don't. I think there's no love loss on any side. And it was sort of a conscious uncoupling type situation.
- [49:30]
Bryn Walner
Absolutely.
- [49:32]
Lauren Sherman
This was so fun.
- [49:33]
Bryn Walner
Oh, thank you. And thank you for enduring my jet lag. I hope that I was coherent.
- [49:39]
Lauren Sherman
You were fabulous. You're so well spoken.
- [49:42]
Bryn Walner
Oh, well, thank you.
- [49:44]
Lauren Sherman
Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.