Goodbye Mr. Armani, Hello Chloe Malle

Summary

Fashion People Podcast: Episode Summary

Episode: Goodbye Mr. Armani, Hello Chloe Malle
Date: September 5, 2025
Host: Lauren Sherman
Guests: Gene Pressman (author, former President of Barneys New York), Jessica Testa (New York Times reporter)

Overview

This episode is split into two major segments. The first half is a thoughtful discussion on Giorgio Armani's passing and the appointment of Chloe Malle as the new Editor of American Vogue, featuring Lauren Sherman and Jessica Testa. The second half is an extended interview with Gene Pressman, who shares personal and historical insights on the legacy of Barneys New York, the changing tides of retail and fashion, and his engaging new memoir.

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Key Discussion Points

Remembering Giorgio Armani (03:10–10:29)

• Armani’s Influence & Fashion Show Experiences:

  • Jessica recalls her first Armani show in Milan, the unique pageantry ("an extra level"), and the reverent atmosphere as Giorgio Armani, aging and a legendary figure, would appear at the end.
  • Lauren discusses Barney’s pivotal role in bringing Armani to the US, and reflects on Armani’s control, consistency, and starting his iconic business in his 40s.

    “He controlled everything in a positive way... Not only the consistency and how that allowed him to have a bigger impact, but also that he started his business in his forties.” — Lauren Sherman (08:27)

• Fashion Show Culture & Memories:

  • Both reminisce on the memorable, almost old-school experience of Armani shows—numbered seating, audience reactions, and models smiling, which was rare.

• Legacy of Personal Style:

  • Lauren confesses her love of navy is “because of Giorgio Armani.”
  • Jessica notes she associates Armani’s later work with "pastel metallics."

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The Business of Fashion Hospitality (09:31–10:29)

• Fashion Brands Opening Restaurants:
  • Discussion around rumors of Prada opening a Soho restaurant, brands mimicking Ralph’s Cafe, and the broader trend of fashion and hospitality blending, with Lauren citing the importance of on-the-ground sources.

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Chloe Malle’s Appointment at Vogue (10:29–20:18)

• A New Era at American Vogue:

  • Lauren summarizes her big takeaways from Testa’s Times interview with Chloe Malle: her skillful media handling, her intention to decrease magazine frequency, and her vision of Vogue as “a smaller idea that hopefully will be more universal.”

    “She positioned it as something she wanted... and she also talked about, essentially, Vogue being a smaller idea that hopefully will be more universal.” — Lauren Sherman (12:41)

• Insider vs. Outsider Leadership:

  • Jessica agrees Malle’s trustworthiness in the eyes of Anna Wintour was key. She contrasts modern insider appointments with past norms of bringing in “fresh faces” to reform magazines, referencing changes at Vanity Fair as another example.

    “This needed to be a person that Anna trusted to the bone. That was never going to be a total outsider again.” — Jessica Testa (13:05)

• Media Evolution and Staff Changes:

  • Lauren notes the “transitioning out” of senior Vogue editors, maintaining that Malle’s role is to delicately shift the magazine’s direction without alarming staff.
  • Both point out a shift in legacy magazines away from “heavy creative” toward strategy and audience, and the desire for journalists over purely fashion creatives.

• Curious Parallels & Magazine History:

  • They discuss Joan Juliet Buck, a unique previous Vogue editor, and ponder if Chloe Malle might be influenced by similarly unconventional predecessors.

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State of Media & Future Revenue (18:52–20:18)

• Optimism About the Media Business:

  • Jessica Testa expresses hope in community, memberships, events, subscriptions (“I’m bullish”), and innovative revenue streams, citing Mr. Beast’s success with commerce ventures as a model for traditional outlets to follow.

    “So that gives me hope... but also just like finding interesting new revenue streams. I think if you look at somebody like Mr. Beast... he now makes more money from his chocolate line than he does from his YouTube videos.” — Jessica Testa (19:27)

• Potential Innovation for Fashion Legacy Media:

  • Testa imagines Vogue could launch games or products outside its core, just as the New York Times has diversified.

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Gene Pressman Interview

On Breakfast, Family, & Memoir Motivation (21:23–29:00)

• Why Write a Memoir?

  • Gene Pressman wanted to correct misinterpretations of Barneys, solidify the Pressman family’s legacy, and narrate how Barneys was more than a store, but a cultural movement:

    “I sort of wanted to get the record straight... there have been many different interpretations of Barneys, and there’s a lot of BS out there too.” — Gene Pressman (23:44)

• Cultural Context Across Decades:

  • He recounts being “age-appropriate” to witness the cultural booms of the 60s and 70s; the British Invasion, American Dream, and quirky details of his own New York upbringing.

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Barneys as Cultural Engine (31:09–44:21)

• European & American Fusion:

  • Barneys fused American freedom, European sophistication, and was shaped by dynamic decades—“not only influenced by culture, but part of the culture.”
  • The shift from menswear to adding women’s fashion in 1976 (thanks to Yves Saint Laurent).

• Nurturing New Talent:

  • Gene emphasizes their loyalty to emerging designers, sometimes waiting out slow starts and never dropping talent quickly.

    “I would tell all the merchants, don’t come back from Europe without a new designer or something new, or don’t come back.” — Gene Pressman (47:21)

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What People Get Wrong About Barneys (44:21–48:47)

• Strong Legacy, but Changing Essence:

  • Even after the Pressman era, the perception of Barneys as a cultural “temple” survived, but the store stagnated creatively. For Gene, the Pressman era was about constant reinvention and inspiration drawn from all facets of culture, not just fashion.

    “We competed against ourselves... It was, what have you done for me lately?” — Gene Pressman (46:19)

• Support for Designers:

  • A key value was nurturing and sticking with designers, unlike competitors who dropped brands quickly.

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Why Multi-brand Retail Is So Hard (49:27–58:30)

• Structural Industry Problems:

  • Gene argues department stores became “airport stores,” losing merchant talent and just renting out branded boutiques instead of curating or owning their point of view.

    “Today, it’s just—I call them ‘airport stores’... There’s no ownership in terms of buying merchandise or building a space or nurturing the customer.” — Gene Pressman (51:22)

• Mistakes of Constant Sales:

  • He’s critical of retailers training customers to buy only during sales, a model doomed to failure, especially amplified by e-commerce.

    “They train their customer to buy on sale. And after you start doing that, they don’t come in except to buy on sale. There’s no way you can survive.” — Gene Pressman (52:40)

• Vision for a Modern Barneys:

  • If still at Barneys, he would have shrunk the fashion footprint, introduced food halls, concert venues, and even condos and media ventures—anything to drive “spirit and excitement.”

    “I would have probably opened a 50,000 square foot food hall... I would have had a theater, art exhibitions... under the Barneys umbrella.” — Gene Pressman (57:13)

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Family Dynamics & Barneys’ Demise (59:19–65:15)

• The Challenge of Family Business:

  • Eight family members worked together; Gene maintained functional independence and avoided overlap, emphasizing trust.

  • Candidly admits you can’t really avoid dysfunction, but conflict wasn’t his style.

    “If dysfunction and family aren’t synonymous... what family doesn’t have that dynamic?” — Gene Pressman (59:55)

• Sense of Humor as Brand DNA:

  • Barneys’ advertising and windows were known for playful irreverence—something Gene says later incarnations lacked, though it was integral to their cultural resonance.

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What Made Barneys Unique (65:15–69:16)

• Quality over Trends:
  • Gene always insisted Barneys was not trendy for the sake of trend, but “modern classic”—pieces built to last, relevant decades later.

    “Barneys was the leader in fashion and created trends, but it was so not trendy... Quality and value at any price.” — Gene Pressman (66:09)

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Fashion Pricing & The Real Renaissance (71:08–73:50)

• Fashion Is Too Expensive Now:
  • He’s astonished by current prices, seeing them as artificially inflated by conglomerates.
  • Argues vintage is now the value play for young shoppers; claims the real “renaissance” of fashion was the 80s, not the 90s, because of Paris and Japanese designers.

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Most Influential Designer Relationships (74:46–77:09)

• Giorgio Armani: Business Transformative

  • Armani changed both Barneys and menswear in America; he had a “completely different sensibility” and a unique partnership with Gene’s father.

• Azzedine Alaïa: Creative Soulmate

  • Alaïa was a close friend and creative kindred spirit. Both designers are, in Gene’s view, the human embodiment of the Barneys ethos — modern classic, quality, and edge.

    “He would always say to me, ‘Gene, did you bring my passport?’... He was such a wonderful human being... I loved Assadi.” — Gene Pressman (75:12)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Armani’s Legacy:
  “He started this empire in his forties... That’s something that, like, I think about all the time because—how many people feel like if they haven't made it by 30, it's over? And it’s not.” — Lauren Sherman (08:20)

• On The Role of Media Today:
  “There is a whole generation of people coming into power in media who have seen rapid growth up close and are disillusioned with that mentality.” — Jessica Testa (10:50)

• On Department Stores vs. Barneys:
  “We were never a department store. I find that insulting for us.” — Gene Pressman (65:46)

• On Barneys’ Relationship with Designers:
  “Barneys loved new talent, and we really nurtured it and brought it along... We stayed with them.” — Gene Pressman (47:27)

• On Vintage vs. Current Prices:
  “If I was a young person, I'd only be buying vintage, because it's beautiful and the prices are more in line...” — Gene Pressman (72:37)

• On Barneys Unique Selling Point:
  “Barneys was the leader in fashion and created trends, but it was so not trendy... We believed in buying things that were built to last.” — Gene Pressman (66:09)

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Memorable Moments

• Jessica holding up a Financial Times cover of Armani in “a navy T-shirt and bright green or yellow sneakers.” (03:25)
• Lauren’s reflection: “The reason someone like Chloe gets that job: she knows how to handle herself, she answers well, and also knows when not to answer.” (11:39)
• Gene’s anecdote about customers wanting to be shown what they wanted—“they want you to tell them”—and not just being passive buyers. (52:20)
• Final heartfelt mentions of Azzedine Alaïa: “He was such a wonderful human being, but he was very shy, and he could be very arrogant and very difficult. His middle fingers were up all the time... And I just love that about him.” (75:29)

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Conclusion

This episode is a rich tapestry of the past, present, and (possible) future of fashion. It honors the passing of a legend (Giorgio Armani), tracks the ever-evolving media landscape with Chloe Malle at Vogue, and delivers a masterclass in fashion and retail history with Gene Pressman’s reflections on Barneys and the unique souls that shaped it. If you’re interested in fashion’s inner workings—how business, creativity, and culture collide—this is essential listening.

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Episode Highlights by Timestamp

• [03:10] Remembering Giorgio Armani: His legacy, shows, cultural intersections
• [10:29] Fashion brands in hospitality—restaurants, cafes, new concepts
• [10:50] Chloe Malle’s appointment at Vogue: strategy, media posture, insider transitions
• [18:52] Media’s future: community, subscriptions, alternative revenue
• [21:23] Gene Pressman reflects: memoir motivation, Barneys’ legacy
• [31:09] Barneys: cultural influence, support of new designers, NYC’s creative energy
• [44:21] Barneys misperceptions, legacy, and lasting appeal
• [49:27] Retail challenges: why stores fail, discounting culture, what could have been
• [59:19] Family business dynamics at Barneys
• [65:15] Barneys’ sense of humor, advertising, “quality over trendiness”
• [71:08] Fashion pricing then and now, vintage resurgence
• [74:46] Most influential designers: Armani & Alaïa

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For real-time inside scoops and more, follow Lauren Sherman’s Line Sheet on Puck.

Transcript

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[Lauren Sherman]

Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet, and today with me on the show is Gene Pressman, author of they All Came to A Personal History of the World's Greatest Store. Plus, New York Times reporter Jessica Testa is here to discuss the passing of Giorgio Armani and the appointment of Chloe Mahl at American Vogue. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world, and much more. If you're interested, listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go to Puck News Fashion People to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday everyone. Hope you had a good week. I'm going to keep this short because Jess is here with us to talk about this late breaking Armani news and also to discuss the news that Chloe Mahl is the new editor of American Vogue. Just had an interview with her earlier this week and I thought it would be good for us to discuss. I also hope you enjoy this interview with Gene. He's awesome and I love the book. I Love Matthew Schneier, his co author, who I hope will come on here someday. And that's basically it. Have a great weekend. I'm going to Oasis. Maybe I'll see you there. Probably not, but we will discuss on Tuesday. Jessica Testa, welcome back to Fashion People.

[Jessica Testa]

I've missed Fashion People so much.

[Lauren Sherman]

I know, it's funny, I was just thinking like a week ago, I need to see if Jess wants to do one of the news the Tuesday shows soon. And then this happened and I was like, oh, maybe I can put you on the top of Friday. You know, you are going to be introducing Gene Pressman, the author of they All Came to Barneys, which is very exciting. Which is actually so fitting that that book came out this week because a big part of the Barney story is that they brought Armani to the US and sort of changed the way Americans dress forever. And this morning, we're recording this on Thursday. It's Thursday morning for me, Thursday afternoon for you. It was announced that Giorgio Armani has died. He was 91. And the company announced that he has passed. After some health issues and a really full rich life, Jess is holding up the Hill tsi, formerly known as how to Spend it, the Financial Times magazine with Armani in the COVID looking perfect in a navy T shirt and bright electric green or yellow sneakers.

[Jessica Testa]

Great cover, great cover.

[Lauren Sherman]

So good. So you are now on the media beat at the Times, but you obviously still cross over into fashion. We're going to be talking about the appointment of Chloe Moll at Vogue very soon. But really quickly, what was your, while you were a fashion reporter, like, did you do, did you write anything about Armani or what was your just. Because when you came into the fashion beat, you had not covered fashion previously. So, like, what was your experience of him in the ecosystem?

[Jessica Testa]

My feelings and thoughts about Armani were very rooted in 90s Armani, which I think a lot of people in my generation who have to fetishize, like, vintage fashion of the 90s, you know, that's our reaction to it. But when I started covering fashion, I remember like my first trip to Milan Fashion Week going to one of the Armani shows, which was just, you know, obviously for somebody who hadn't been to fashion shows before that going Fashion Week session experience, going to an Armani show is like an extra level of, of pageantry.

[Lauren Sherman]

Right?

[Jessica Testa]

You're in these, like, especially if you're like, not a known quantity to the publicist, you're like up in the rafters. Right.

[Lauren Sherman]

Of this. Oh, yeah.

[Jessica Testa]

Of this, like Sort of stage that has. The seats on the side are sort of like almost like a staircase on, on. On each side of the Runway. And it was so wild because it's also at the Armani headquarters. Right. This, this particular. The Imperio show. Right is what I'm talking about. And so you're in the corporate building and you're sitting in that show and then he comes out at the very end and it's like the rapture. It's like people are fawning. CHEERING Especially because I think as he got older, people thought it was going to, you know, every show could be his last. So it just got more and more intense at those particular shows and I just. My memories of those are very like, what, what is this?

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, it really is the first time I ever went when I. Probably 2000, because I. I didn't do Milan Fashion Week for a long time, but probably 2011. And I was definitely. The great thing about their seating is it's numbered so they'll be like, Your seat is 224, which usually means you're in the second row. But it is. It's a very funny experience of. And they have two shows and I've had the experience of like, I don't mind going to the. I need to go to the first show. I don't mind. You can give me a not as good seat. But I think they do that so that everybody gets a decent seat at this point. It's very, very particular, but it is very much like the way you imagine old school fashion shows to be. I remember people just clapping in like the middle of the show. Like, this look is so amazing. And one of the greatest things is he had often had the model smil and just the consistency look. Like I was thinking today, what are the things that I can say about this person who I didn't really know? I did a few email interviews with him. I'm sure he spoke English, but he didn't feel comfortable speaking English to journalists. He always had a translator. And so I did a big email interview with him once, which is so rare who allows that. But he had. The answers were very honest. And I remember thinking, oh, this person is just so in control of his life. He controlled everything in a positive way sometimes. But I think, to me, the two big things are not only the sort of consistency and how that allowed him to have a bigger impact on the industry and again on how people dress, but also that he started his business in his 40s. I think that that's something that, like we are such. We live in such a world that's so much about what's happening now and where are you going next and how are you going to scale and what's your next step and what's your next idea. And he didn't. Didn't really get his start building this brand until, you know, many people think that their last chance is over. So I think it's just like a good lesson generally. He was so inspiring. Also, I also love navy so much, and I know that's because of Giorgio Armani.

[Jessica Testa]

I know. I associated his later work with, like, these pastel metallics.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes.

[Jessica Testa]

And, yeah, it was always beautiful and it always fit people really well. And I've never been to the restaurant, but now I want to go.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's great. It's so good.

[Gene Pressman]

Is it?

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes. It's fun. It's. You know, I've also been to the sushi at the one in Milan. It's fun.

[Jessica Testa]

What's going on with the other brands that were rumored to be opening restaurants, like the Prada restaurant and Soho Rumor.

[Lauren Sherman]

Look, all the reporting on that has come from store associates, which not to out them because they're not my sources. But, like, store associates often know what's up. I will not deny that. But let's see. I think the battle between Prada and Lure Fish bar is unfortunate. Lure is a fun place to go, but I also would be down for a Prada cafe. The Coach Cafes, I don't think I need. And maybe they don't need to do that, but I think they're probably mimicking the Ralph's Cafe concept a bit.

[Jessica Testa]

Very successful concept.

[Lauren Sherman]

We'll see. So I'm trying to think of a funny segue into. I honestly do wonder what Chloe Maul would think about a Coach Cafe. I feel like she might want to launch a Doge Cafe. Her love of dogs, not a bad idea.

[Jessica Testa]

Well, there is a segue, though, because when you were talking about Armani and, like, not being obsessed with growth when everyone else is like, yeah, I think a lot. I think that there is a whole generation of people coming into power in media who have seen rapid growth up close and have seen venture capital up close and a lot of people in my world and I cover independent and emerging and new media, like, they're so disillusioned with that mentality. And I think that I saw some of that when I talked to Chloe about the role.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I thought so. I guess I'll preface this up top. But in case I don't, Chloe Mahl was named head of editorial content at US Vogue this week. You interviewed her for the New York Times. And I thought that my big takeaway from the piece was a she knows how to handle herself. You are a tough interviewer. You threw some tough questions at her and she answered when she. In the right way. And she also declined to answer when you asked her if she would have Melania on the COVID Whereas I would have dug myself a hole and been like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So this is why someone like Chloe gets that job. But I thought that the two interesting bits to me were. And you are so good at detail, like noting the legos in her office and stuff like that. But the really interesting beats and to me was this idea of a. She wedged in there. They're gonna. Their frequency is going to decrease, which inevitably that was gonna happen no matter what. But she positioned it as something she wanted. And she also talked about essentially, Vogue being a smaller idea that hopefully will be more universal. But I'm curious what you thought about her. I know you. You've probably interviewed her or know her from covering fashion for a long time. What did you take away from. From your conversation?

[Jessica Testa]

I was thinking a lot about why she was chosen. Right. And I think you. You have written a lot about this, and I'm in agreement with it, that this needed to be a person that Anna trusted to the bone. Right. Like, that was never going to be a total outsider again, as you've pointed out in line sheet. And I think that still feels unusual to those of us who maybe obsessively followed magazine mastheads in the late golden age when it seemed like the standard practice was bringing in a fresh face from outside the title who was sort of an exciting choice and would come in and gut the place and fill it with their people. I think that, you know, again, those of us who expect that need to get over it because that is not like the reality of how these modern appointments are working. Right. And we saw that with the Vanity Fair appointment as well. Actually, Mark, you know, there have been reports of him cutting staff and making personnel changes. So maybe that element of that narrative is intact there. But I don't expect we're going to see that in Vogue.

[Lauren Sherman]

Actually. No, I think her. You know, there has been a lot. There have been quite a few very senior level people at Vogue who have. Their hours have been reduced to four days a week or three days a week. And many of them, I've heard from people close to them who have said, oh, you Know, they wanted that. They wanted that for years and they were never allowed. And now they are. Look, this is what this is, is transitioning out the sort of senior ranks that haven't been transitioned out already. There's many, like Tawny Goodman, Grace Coddington, that whole crew who left a few years ago full time. So this is obvious. And so I think the other reason it needed to be an insider is because Chloe has the tact and the compassion to be able to shift the way that magazine looks in a delicate way. Mark, he could go in and just fire everyone if he wanted to, I don't think. He doesn't seem to be taking that approach. The sort of. Most senior people, some of whom were up for the job or wanted the job that he got, are staying and have been given sort of broader roles or different roles, that sort of thing. So he clearly sees value in a lot of people that worked at Vanity Fair. But I think that you're right that her job, a lot of it, is, like, changing things, but in a way that doesn't freak people out, essentially.

[Jessica Testa]

And that's another one of my other takeaways, was that when I asked Chloe what her pitch was, the top lines of it were, I think, related to, like, audience and strategy and some of the things you've already mentioned, like making making Vogue smaller. And that's interesting because you might have expected the person who got that job would have come in and had a heavy creative pitch. Right. Like making it about the fashion and the visuals. And clearly, like, clearly, clearly, clearly that was not Anna's priority in a candidate.

[Gene Pressman]

No.

[Lauren Sherman]

And everything I had heard from people around the process was that they kept saying, we really want a journalist, which I thought was interesting. Also, have you read Joan Juliet Buck's book? No.

[Jessica Testa]

Should I?

[Lauren Sherman]

You need to read it immediately, like, this weekend. She was that she's American. She's lived, like, the most incredible life in the. Like, she's had the best life ever. I'm extremely envious of the. Her life of privilege and intrigue. And it's really, truly remarkable, at least her version of it. But she was the editor of French Vogue, I think, at the turn of the century, before Korine, so in the 90s. And Jonathan Newhouse was her close person. He hired her and she was a very interesting editor. A. She wasn't. She was American, running a French magazine that seems like would never happen now. I feel like it just seems too crazy. It feels like something Anna would do, but everybody would be mad about.

[Jessica Testa]

I mean, she was British and Anna was British and came in to run American book. But.

[Lauren Sherman]

And she was a journalist, so it was just a very different magazine. And I. I keep thinking about that. I wonder if Chloe has any reverence for her or they, you know, I just feel like there's some sort of. I'm trying to make a parallel between the two of them running it, but it is fun. It's gonna be fun. Look like, you know, that's such a.

[Jessica Testa]

Great question and I think. Chloe, will you text us and let us know?

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes. Yes. Okay. So I guess final question is when you look at this landscape of. Because you're coming at this media thing from very unique perspective. A, you are just like a reporter's reporter. So you've covered a lot of different beats, but you have this understanding of the fashion industry and the advertisers that drive a lot of media, not just fashion media. And then you also are covering these more indie upstarts and things. You mentioned this idea of like, the niche of the massive niches and the niche publications sort of becoming more universal. What else is interesting to you right now that you. That you feel like, gives you hope for media or whatever?

[Jessica Testa]

The things that give me hope for media include an emphasis on community and doing events and memberships. And I think that subscript. I'm a. I'm bullish on the subscription model and as I know you are too, and. And at Puck. But that. So that gives me hope. And that's sort of an obvious one. But also just like finding interesting new revenue streams. I think if you look at somebody like Mr. Beast, who's obviously like. If not, you know, he's one of the top youtubers and he now makes more money from his chocolate line than he does his YouTube videos.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Jessica Testa]

Despite. Despite their massive popularity. And he spreads himself across multiple partners. Like, he's got this like, Amazon prime show. So he's not just on YouTube. Like, I think that people doing commerce lines and. And consumer products, commercial goods that are related to their brand and their product but aren't like, just merch. That feels very exciting to me. And I'm very curious where that goes. And I can see of a world in which these traditional legacy outlets do it. I mean, in a way, like, if you look at. I work at the New York Times and we have, you know, a thriving games business. Like, it's not. That's not so different. That's obviously not a consumer product, but it is like finding ways to like, extend your brand outside of its core product. And so I'm really excited about that and would love to see, you know, some. Some. Something come out of Vogue in that lane.

[Lauren Sherman]

Jess, I'm so happy to have you. At some point, we need to have an offline conversation about Dave Portnoy because I'm newly obsessed.

[Jessica Testa]

Newly. Okay.

[Lauren Sherman]

I also think we just discovered him.

[Jessica Testa]

That's crazy to me. Would love to talk to you about that anytime. But we should also talk. We could do, like, a whole episode about the question of who would put, like, putting Melania on the COVID and how that would work, because I actually think there's a way to do it that way.

[Lauren Sherman]

Let's do it. Let's do it soon. I agree. I agree with you. I think it is. We were on another text with a friend who shall remain nameless where we were discussing this, and we were both like, we think that this could happen if he does it. Right. So, yes, let's do an entire what if episode. Or maybe it'll happen.

[Jessica Testa]

And congratulations on this.

[Lauren Sherman]

Congratulations on your exclusive interview.

[Jessica Testa]

Thanks, Lauren.

[Lauren Sherman]

Jean Pressman, welcome to Fashion People.

[Gene Pressman]

Thank you.

[Lauren Sherman]

Do you consider yourself a fashion person still?

[Gene Pressman]

No.

[Lauren Sherman]

No. Well, we're going to discuss all that and more, but the first question we ask on Friday mornings when this will run is, what did you have for breakfast this morning?

[Gene Pressman]

A chicken salad sandwich.

[Lauren Sherman]

Sounds good.

[Jessica Testa]

Do you.

[Lauren Sherman]

Is that a typical.

[Gene Pressman]

Well, I don't eat lunch.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay.

[Gene Pressman]

I just eat early in the morning, and then I eat at night. I'd eat lunch if I was hungry, but I seem not to. I only eat when I'm hungry, so I never eat during the day.

[Lauren Sherman]

That's a first I've heard. I love hearing about people's eating patterns and. And what they. I tend to not eat breakfast every day, and so I eat breakfast for lunch a lot because I do love breakfast food, but that sounds good. Do you make the chicken salad, or do you buy it from some special purveyor?

[Gene Pressman]

No, we make all of that ourselves because I'm a little leery on knowing when those things were made in stores.

[Lauren Sherman]

Get it?

[Gene Pressman]

They don't keep very well.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes. Wow, that sounds delicious. So you and I have chatted in the past because you have a deep influence and impact and role in the history of fashion. Your family started the store Barney's New York, and you ran it for a long time and participated in this sort of shaping of it as a cultural force. And you have this new book that came out, a memoir of your life at Barney's and beyond. And I guess, to start, why did you want to write A book. Why did you feel like it was necessary to tell your story and get it out there in that form?

[Gene Pressman]

Well, this is my second book. My first book was also a collaboration.

[Lauren Sherman]

I've read that.

[Gene Pressman]

Oh, you're chasing.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes, chasing. Cool. Right?

[Gene Pressman]

Right.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, yeah, I read that in. I might have interviewed you then in, in the 2000s, because I worked at Forbes, and I used to reference it all the time.

[Gene Pressman]

Okay. Yeah, I, I, I liked. I believe in collaboration. I've always believed in collaboration. I think that was. The success of Barney's was just this laboratory of incredible people. But I don't know, I. With this book, I felt that the timing was right to write it. You know, everybody, I think, looks back at their life a little bit and they ponder whether they want to write their memoir. I didn't really look at it in that way. I think, I think of the legacy of the family, my family. And Barney's was something special. And because there were. I kept. I stopped counting, but I think there were five owners after us. It's incredible how many people only really know Barney's after the Pressmans and after Downtown. And in fact, what's amazing to me is so many young people talk about Barneys in such reverence, and they've never even been there, which is kind of cool. So I think there were. There have been many different interpretations of Barneys, and there's a lot of BS out there, too. And so, you know, I sort of wanted to get the record straight. And it's not easy. I think articulating your story, you know, recollection is always not there. And it's not about age. You'd be surprised. I know that Matthew and I, Matthew being my collaborator in this project, we interviewed many people, and for the most part, the stories aligned. But I surprised myself with how much I could remember in detail. So I think it was important to bring that story out. I also think that as we were talking before, this is not a story just about retail. This is a story about cultures and a cultural movement in different decades. I've been very lucky. I refer to it as being age appropriate. I happened to be born in 1950, and I think that going through the 50s, which was pretty boring, I must tell you, because, you know, the 50s was about kind of being laid back in the burbs, very safe, very Steffered wife. You know, America was living on a high because they had rescued Europe, or at least they thought they did. So they felt good about that. And so the 50s were, culturally speaking, sort of. Yeah, you Know, wasn't that great. The 60s was a period of time that really was so experimental and so new and really was a revolution about everything that came before, which was just so boring. So so many things happened all at once. Once. Certainly the music, especially in the early 60s, you know, in particular, I think the British Invasion and rock and roll in general, the Brits, you know, pretty much stole the. The black American, black blues music movement and reinterpreted in their own way and really made it pretty fabulous. They influenced a lot of America's music. I think kids were very inquisitive about what was going on. There was also a lot of turmoil in the early 60s. I think the conversation is maybe a little bit similar now, but not as intense. We had the threat of nuclear war. I remember that we had a. We were, you know, there was bomb shelters made and we had to do different drills during school. It was kind of weird. And the art movement. The art movement was really special. There were, you know, the pop art and all kinds of new movements in art. Towards the mid to late 60s, motion picture was just outstanding. It was so experimental and they took so much risk. I happened to go to film school, to Newhouse School. And so I think from 67 to 73, some of the greatest movie making ever. And it was just one after another. And as I said before, also in music, you know, music was about albums then. So if an album was, say, 12 or 13 songs, there wasn't one bad song on the album. It was really a special, you know, thing. I think it had to do with the way people thought that it was very organic, that it wasn't the cart before the horse, that people, sure, they like making money, but it was. They weren't obsessed by making money. The end game wasn't that. The end game was to make something excellent and relevant, you know, and so the American dream was full of life and very much alive. I remember in high school, in the mid-60s, there might have been two ladies that weren't virgin in school. Everybody else is a virgin. All of a sudden, drugs came around and that changed all of that.

[Lauren Sherman]

How did all of that inform fashion? And I mean, your family owned the store then they had the store. Then when you started working at the store, how do you think you're being born at that specific time and being able to witness all of the 50s, all of the 60s and then into the 70s, inform how what you. The kind of fashion you brought to the store?

[Gene Pressman]

Yeah, so in the 60s, I was very aware that my family owned Barneys which was pretty cool. But I really was not into fashion. I could care less. In fact, I was very much into music. I played guitar and bass. I was playing in several bands. And when I did go down to Barney's, it was sort of obligatory. My mother would take me down there and, you know, pick out stuff for me to buy, but I could care less. But I knew that my father, who was very immersed in it, he was such a brilliant man. It was incredible. And he was so understated about it. In the 60s, he really was the impetus behind and really invented and introduced to America American men's, American designer. There was no such thing. So, and that started in the 60s and Barney's, you know, for a long time, since 1923, was a men's store only and for the most part was a men's discount store. So his whole wanting to transform what his father, Barney had done was really what it was all about to him. So. And it was very organic because a lot of the top manufacturers, men's manufacturers in America, didn't want to sell Barneys because they were worried that Barneys would discount them. So the only way that Barney's got great brands is by making deals with small stores generally down south. And they'd buy through the manufacturer. We had to promise them that they would take their label out and we would sell those top brands in our store. My father sort of got frustrated and he decided to go to Europe to search out really good, high quality brands. Well, nobody knew who Barney's was. And in fact, most people had never even been in New York. So they were so glad to sell any store in New York that he ended up getting all these incredible brands first. And it's funny that Europe was willing to sell them even more than domestic brands were. And obviously, eventually it all came around full circle where we carried Everybody. But in 1969, my father opened what, what he called the International House, which was a new building adjacent to Barney's downtown, which just featured European brands. And prior to that there were designers, but designers were hidden in the back rooms. The manufacturers didn't want to showcase them. So there were talent was there, but they weren't allowed to, you know, come out to the forefront. And while this was going on, there was so many things culturally going on all at the same time. There were only two political parties then, and it wasn't the Republicans and Democrats. It was the, it was the youngsters against the establishment, it was the kids against their parents. And, you know, there were a lot of movements, obviously Vietnam was really was the impetus to create a lot of turmoil in this country because we had a draft then, and nobody wanted to go over there and fight that war. They didn't even know where Vietnam was. So. And that created a lot of positive things in culture, because anger usually does, and I think today it lacks that. I mean, there is anger, but I don't see the same protests as I saw then, you know, and those protests created art and they created film, and they created great music and great writing and really all forms of. Of culture and entertainment. I know there's anger today, but I think that there's been such a good time for such a long time. And I don't want to go over this too much now, but that people got sort of complacent, and that hurts creativity, you know. And so in terms of fashion and Barney's didn't get into women's until 76, but that was a big moment for women's fashion as well, especially a guy named Yves Saint Laurent, because he started a revolution. He. He took couture and made it into what was called Ready to Wear, which was huge. He brought it more to the masses by, by. Although today, I must say, designer prices are so ridiculous, they might as well be couture. But. But he brought it more to the general public by, by having it come out as more mass produced. So. And that was a big thing. Anyway, to get back to your original question, the reason I wanted to write this book is because I did want to tell a story. I think there's just, just wonderful things that I could articulate. I, I. For me, I was lucky enough to work hard and play hard sometimes I didn't know which was which. Definitely burned both ends of the candle. And I'm probably the luckiest guy ever because I got to experience just so much. You know, I spent a lot of my life in Europe and traveling around the world, taking in all the different culture, everything that people, you know, had to say. I love history, and I love European history, and I learned a lot. I learned a lot about architecture, about art, and I also was able to layer Americana over that, you know, and really, the, the thing about America that's just so brilliant is the freedom that we all enjoy. And I know that lately it's a little weird out there, but I think freedom has allowed America to be so creative, to be able to speak its mind, to be able to take risks, to do things. And it really has always been the greatest place to be brought up. And so when you have that Sort of combo sandwich of European cultures and American freedom and intuition and creativity. It's a pretty special thing. And I think that's what Barney's became because of that. You know, America is a much more casual environment. And Europe is, Because of their history, is. Is probably more sophisticated. And they're definitely more conservative too. They have great taste level, obviously, in many things, especially in fashion, but in food and. And all kinds of things, architecture. So, again, experiencing all of that and being able to articulate it in a book is a special thing. And, you know, I. I grew up. When I did get to Barney's in 72, it was really the beginnings of a renaissance of ready to wear and fashion, both in men's and women's. And I got to experience that from the beginning. And I think that very much was part of introducing both myself and the people that worked at Barney's. All the great merchants, so many fabulous young talent who end up evolving to substantial talent and very influential talent. And I think that Barney's. I think that's one of the greatest things that Barney's did, is that it helped to create culture. It was really. It was not only influenced by culture, but it was part of the culture. And it really. It really delivered culture. And the other aspect which I talk about in the book is New York city in the 60s. Just to go back for a minute, London was the center of the universe. It was very special. People don't talk about the 60s that much. And for me, it was a huge influence on my life and especially London. So many things were going on. Obviously, I. I touch on the music, but also fashion, the sensibility. People were taking such risk. The art scene, the movie scene. And of course, it was all over Europe. Italy, you know, Italian fashion and also Italian movie making was extraordinary. But I think London especially was the center of the universe, and it influenced me greatly. And then towards the 70s and the late 60s, America started happening. And by really, by the late 60s, early 70s, New York, it started to shift. And New York really just generated so. So much incredible energy. I mean, it was. It was wild and it was dangerous and it was sexy, you know, when it was all of it. And that kind of. That combination, really, it just made for something very special. I remember, and I talk about a lot of this in the book, but I remember being on a subway, and it was really strange to see policemen while the subway was moving. Going from car to car holding police dogs. You know, that was a little unsettling. Although you felt good about it because you felt Sort of safe. There was more graffiti inside the train than there was outside the train. And, you know, basically New York was almost bankrupt. But because of all that, there was a lot of creativity. Again, it's always the. The more. The more angst. It usually means more creativity. So, you know, it was special time. And it depended what street you walk down. That was. All of a sudden you had this influx of tremendous nightclubs and the gay clubs started happening. These big dance halls that was. That was really fun. And if you were a straight guy, it was really great because all the attractive women in New York would gravitate towards the gay scene because it felt safe. And so as a straight guy, if you went to these gay clubs, he was kind of, you know, you didn't have to bring a sandwich to a picnic. It was. It was insane. And it was just fun. It was so much energy. I talk a lot about New York throughout the whole thing, but I think I'll stop there and let you ask me some more questions. So, you know, I wanted to tell the story. There was so much to tell.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, it's. I mean, it's interesting. It's. I think that consumer culture, being popular culture and being the fabric of what was happening in the world is important context. But you mentioned when we first started chatting that you feel like a lot of people get it wrong. Like, get what Barney's was. What do you think? I mean, there's so much every. I called you a couple months ago. Cause there was something else happening in the world of Barneys. It's owned by a licensing firm now. They have hotels, they have all this stuff. But there's going to be two potentially two different TV shows. One that you will be involved in or. Or pieces of art, entertainment about Barneys. What do you think it is like looking as you've been out of the business since what, 95, 98. 98. So since 98. So that's almost 20, almost 30 years. Looking at it and being on the outside, what do people get wrong about it, about what it meant to the culture?

[Gene Pressman]

Well, I think I want to personalize that and say, as far as I see it, because in spite of the different ownerships and leadership companies, Barney's from 98 and to 2019, I think it was, or 20. So over 20 years, the legacy was so strong that people still perceived it and shopped there. And, you know, Barney's flourished greatly. And they still thought of it as sort of like the temple of whatever. But I'm very much a purist and I Think what changed was that Barney's didn't change when. When I was there and all the just incredible people that work there in all areas, not only in merchandise, but, you know, in display and windows. With Simon's leadership, our advertising, and we had some of the greatest ad people on the planet there. I think that there was a drive to constantly. You were competing against yourself, and you constantly had to do something new and you wanted to do something new. I know that I always want to do something new because I always got bored. And so boredom kind of drove me. And, you know, even though we were cognizant of. We were aware of what was going on with our competition and other stores, it didn't motivate me. I think we motivated them way more than they motivated us. I would shop them, I would look at them, travel around the world, but I looked inward, and other things influenced us, whether it be other cultures, art or music, just generally what was happening and that's where. Or books. That's where I would get my inspiration from. And so, you know, I would push the people. You know, it's kind of like, what have you done for me lately? I would tell all the merchants, don't come back from Europe without a new designer or something new or don't come back. You know, And I'd be half kidding, but I was half serious. But there were a lot of talent out there then. It was like the wild, wild West. It was, if you weren't lazy, you could find talent everywhere, under every rock. And they were so happy that someone was discovering them and nurturing them, because Barney's, you know, Barney's. Love new talent and young talent, and we really nurtured it and. And brought it along. A lot of stores didn't stay with talent. They dropped them, you know, and we weren't about that. We. We kept staying with them. And sometimes things don't sell as. As well as you would like in the beginning, but if you promote them and you work with them, usually they're. If they have talent, they're successful.

[Lauren Sherman]

So.

[Gene Pressman]

And I think that's what Barneys did, and they built big businesses about it.

[Lauren Sherman]

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[Jessica Testa]

You.

[Lauren Sherman]

Mentioned at the beginning again that you don't like to say things used to be better than they were. And I agree with that. I think like saying that the 90s was the golden age of era of fashion. It was a golden era of fashion. But it's hard to compare the world we live in now versus then. But at that time, and this is something you and I chatted about the last time we spoke, you all filed for bankruptcy in the 90s. The retail landscape now is every single department store, every single multi brand retailer, from the big to the small, are every other season in trouble, some of them insurmountable trouble where they will have to file for bankruptcy. And yet they keep going on. And I guess the question for me is, when you were still running the business and in the middle of all that stuff that went on in the 90s, why is it so hard to make these stores work? Like not you made it work from a cultural perspective and a consumer engagement perspective. But why, why is multi brand retail a hard business? Like, what do you think fundamentally makes it so challenging to the point that like this happens with so many stores? And I always think about the fact that Barney's went bankrupt in the 90s because it puts into context of like this what. This isn't a totally new problem that the industry is facing today.

[Gene Pressman]

Yeah. So it's. There are many reasons. Okay, it's not, it's not one reason for. In terms of Barney's, then I'll speak. In general, we had financial difficulty for several reasons, but one is that we over expanded too fast. And there were a lot of reasons for that. We had an incredibly wonderful Japanese partner and basically anything we wanted to do, they would let us do. So it's hard to say no. Having said that, I think that in the bigger picture, I think stores lack talent. They have no merchants per se. It's a real estate to me today it's just. I call them airport stores, the big stores. They just rent out space. There's no ownership in terms of buying merchandise or building a space or hiring the salespeople or nurturing the customer. There's none of that. It's arm's length. So they're just, they're like a shopping mall, you know, so. And there's, there's really not a reason for customers to go there. I mean, you got to give customers a reason to go. You know, I always thought that Barney's was like the magical mystery tour. You know, customers would go in, they would always find something new. They were excited I, I used to have this saying that you never give customers what they want because they don't know what they want. They want you to tell them. And so, and the, and this is, you know, we're talking about the most sophisticated customers in the world, which Barney's had. They wanted us to go and show them what was right, educate them to new things. They love that experience. So I don't see that at all today. Not at all. I, Everything looks the same. You know, if they do have boutiques, it's, it's the big guys of the world that are building them. So every boutique and every store is exactly the same. It's all cookie cutter. It's just boring. It's totally boring. You know, I'm sure that there are some smaller shops that, because the owner lives in the store and it's their point of view and they're looking for things that they like, that they personalize and to their customer, they give the added service, those stores have a shot to, to make it. You know, I, the, the other thing about Barney's is that our timing has always been, was always great, but when we opened up in 93, the timing wasn't that good. And I don't want to blame it on that, but was just such a bad recession and it was tough, you know, it was, it was very tough, but we still did a lot of business. The other thing about Barney's that people don't talk about, but I did talk about in the book is we were unusual in that we were a left brain, right brain company. I think we were as good as business as we were at buying things. That is, we were very good at making deals. And having. We, we sold, we had the highest, you know, maintained margins of any store in America. Big store. And the reason is because we sold things at regular price. And that's another reason for the downfall of a lot of stores. One of the biggest reasons, they train their customer to buy on sale. And after you start training your customer to buy on sale, they don't come in except to buy on sale. And there's no way you can survive and make money. And when the Internet came along, and I know a lot of people sort of blame it on the Internet, but the Internet is not the real reason that stores went out of business. It's because they sold things on sale. The Internet just pushed them off the cliff. And the truth be told is that most of these Internet companies lose money too. They can't survive either. So it's a lot of factors. Barney's was a unique factor. I will say this. There was no reason for us to go into bankruptcy. We should never have been in bankruptcy. We were, and I say in the book, we were a machine. We had beautiful product. We knew how to make money. We sold what we bought. We knew how to service the customer. But we, we made mistakes, some very costly mistakes. And that caused us to have, you know, a deficient cash flow. But in terms of general concept, no reason. And if I look back today, there would have only been two alternative. Either I would have sold Barney's when I wanted to have sold Barney's, or I would have still been running it today, and it would have been as relevant and more relevant than it's ever been, except it would have been different. The retail part of the fashion would have shrunk a great deal. It just can't. What it. What fashion worlds today is, it just can't sustain that big a store. There's just not enough product, which is fine. So that would have shrunk maybe to 50%. So what would I have filled the store with? Well, there's so much else you could fill it with because what you, you're creating is spiro, right. And you want people to come in your store and be excited. So I would have probably opened a 50,000 square foot food hall. Let's face it, Harrod's most exciting thing they have in their store in London is their food hall. It's incredible. And if you go to, I don't know if you've been to Tokyo, but if you go to Japan in the basement, the food halls there are just the best part of the store. They're unbelievable. And they're, they're doing so much business. And I would have also created other elements. I would have probably built a concert hall. Not a big one, but a unique one. I would have had a theater, I would. Had art exhibitions. I would have, you know, whatever it would have taken to create traffic and to stimulate people's imaginations, I think we would have done. And under the Barney's umbrella, I think would have worked well. And of course, I mean, who wouldn't have gone to a Barney's resort?

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, yeah, I mean, now there's this Barney's. These Barney's apartments in Mexico, which I don't think they have your flair to them.

[Gene Pressman]

But no, I would have opened condos, obviously, and we would have opened hotels. We had the customer. And as long as we kept our edge and made it special, I think, look, we could have gone into media Companies. I know this sounds crazy, but, you know, whether we're making books or we're making movies, I mean, it was our point of view. People bought into our point of view, you know, our editorial. So I think that if we had the right people and we had the right funding, I think we could have made a go in a lot of this stuff. But here we are today.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay, really quickly on that. And I'm sure you can't talk a ton about this, but do you feel like they obviously very well documented issues you had with your brother that continue on today? Do you feel like the reason it was successful in the beginning was that it was a family business? And do you think that the family dynamic part of it is the ultimate reason it wasn't able to go on? Is that the challenges you all had running it together?

[Gene Pressman]

Yeah, look, everybody always tries to make it a soap opera. Okay, so are there parts that are true? Yeah. What family doesn't have that dynamic? I did defy them. Anybody to tell me if this. If dysfunction and family aren't synonymous. I think having eight family members working together is definitely interesting, especially if you're in charge of all of them. So what I did is basically let them do their own thing and everybody did their own thing thing and nobody overlapped because that would be a disaster recipe for a disaster. But listen, a lot of couples work together. Marriages don't work because for the same reason or work for the same reason, you know, so in terms of my brother, we did different things. I was in charge of the merchandising and the marketing of the company and the general image. Bob was in charge of finance and the operations of the company. Did we discuss things? Of course. But you know, there has to be a lot of trust involved that you've got to believe that they can do what they can do and you can do what you can do. And then where you go over budgets, you go over budgets. Obviously, I worked with all my merchants on their open to buys, which is the budget they have for buying things. And I worked on the margins how much profit we could make, you know, anticipating what we would sell at regular place and what we'd mark down. And so a lot of that related to the economics of the business. And Bob would plug that into the numbers. And Bob also then would go over his numbers in terms of what the budgets are there. It's not rocket science, I have to tell you. Retail is a tricky business, though, obviously. But the finance part, if it's managed properly, you know, within reason, should be okay. We were co. CEO. So, you know, I think that's a tough thing to do because I think you can only have one CEO. But it was a family dynamic. And my father, that's. That's really how he saw it. So that's what it was. And I worked very closely with my father, who was just a brilliant merchant and a brilliant businessman. And so understated. I mean, he was amazing, but he was very difficult on me. And that was good because I learned a lot and I needed to be roped in because I was definitely unbridled sometimes. So. But he. He got me and he gave me my freedom. So, yeah, I don't. There's not much to say. I'm the kind of person that I don't like conflict. I avoid it. I'm not litigious. I walk away from things. There's a lot of good things in my life, incredible things to talk about. So I try and keep on the positive. I'm being accused of being a very positive, energetic person, and that's what, you know, I only know that. And I like to have fun. I see you're smiling, and, you know, that's what I love. And I think I'm good at telling stories. That's why I really enjoyed writing the book, because it was a fun story to tell, and hopefully it'll be a great TV series. Yeah, we're. And, you know, the one thing I didn't talk about that I'm thinking is the other thing about Barney's that Barney's lost a little bit is its sense of humor. You know, that was such. That was such a. The irony of Barney's that I was, you know, I guess, a major proponent of that. You got to have a sense of humor. You can't take yourself so seriously, you know, and people really appreciate that. And we were selling serious fashion, and let's face it, it was very expensive. And a lot of young people that walked in the store couldn't afford much. So maybe young gal would come in the store and buy a lipstick, but she got the Barney shopping bag, so she was feeling good about herself walking on the street. But sense of humor in everything we did in Simon's Windows, which were amazing, our advertising, I mean, everything was sort of a caricature of ourselves. You got to laugh at yourself.

[Lauren Sherman]

The Glenn o', Brien, the Ronnie Newhouse, the campaigns you did in the 90s, people talk a lot about the buying being so influential or the merchandising, but those campaigns and the way you approached talking about luxury was Wholly original. And it's just like another part of why it's such a big cultural force to this day.

[Gene Pressman]

Yeah, well, you know, there's so many little anecdotal stories. I remember at the end, I think I mentioned, mentioned the book. But at the end of every fashion season in Paris and Milan, you would get accost by all the journalists, you know, asking you who you thought was the best designers of the season. And of course I think the heads of every department store. And let me get on the record, is one of the things I wanted to clear up. We were never a department store store. Never, never, never. I find that insulting for us. But they would come up to me and they go, well, who do you think were their best? You know, the song of the season. I'd always say exactly the same thing. I thought that quality was and I never changed. And of course spies, I think, and people. Maybe this was so subtle that people didn't get this later on, but certainly when the Pressmans were there is that Barney's was the leader in fashion and created trends, but it was so not trendy. We, we believed in buying things that were built to last. So in order to do that you had to buy modern classic, not Ralph Lauren modern classic, but, but fashionable things that you could wear five years from now, 10 years from now, 20. It's funny that they call it vintage now. I used to call it, you know, second hand. But you know, that's, that's the craze and it's been the craze and that stuff. That's exactly what I'm talking about. And, and the common denominator there is the quality of it. You know, people appreciate quality at any price, whether it's the top of the game, which is Hermes, which is obviously magnificent, takes a year to, to make something and it's super expensive, but it's worth it. It's worth it. There's value there because it's one of a kind, special or something inexpensive, also has that sense of quality or value because it is what it is. So, and that's what we tried to do, you know, that that's real. And our point of view was I used to, I used to go into stores and I swear and I'm, I don't want to insult seeing eye dogs, but I swear to God, I think sometimes the seeing eye dogs where it was, were made the merchants of some of some of these stores because I didn't understand what they were buying. They would buy the most, most outrageous avant garde things. That was not possible to sell, not possible. So. But they thought they were doing the right thing because they were part, they were making a fashion statement and we never did that. Do we have some out there pieces? Of course. But we tried to buy things that were beautiful. I think that was it. Beauty and quality was what it was about. But we did it under the auspices of fashion and trends. So there's a subtlety there, you know, a real soldier there and not many people can do it.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, there's a pragmatism to it.

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[Lauren Sherman]

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[Lauren Sherman]

New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See mint mobile.com so I have two final questions for you. One is you mentioned at the beginning that clothes are too expensive now. And I understand the value equation thing here, whereas Hermes, you can feel the value. But I was looking at an old Vogue at my mother in law's house from 89 and I looked through the prices and I did the inflation and you know, there were a lot of dresses in there that would be $6,000 today. So it felt, felt to me maybe it is sort of in line with what stuff is. You know, a Saint Laurent dress is $6,000 in, in the store now and it was $2,000 in 1989 or, or 800 or whatever. The inflation, you know, increases. But from your perspective, what, what do you think is too expensive? Like why, what is too. Maybe not name names, but just generally. What about it is too expensive?

[Gene Pressman]

Yeah, I mean, when I, when I see a blouse for $5,000 or a coat for $15,000, I think that's stupid. Okay? A blouse for $1,000 is a lot of money. Okay. And even though I know you can sort of equate prices back then with what they would be based on inflation today, but honestly, no, it's more expensive today. And the reason is, is because I Said, I said three guys own the whole industry and so they're controlling the market and they have a great thing going on, the designers, because the ones that have, that are multi store, they go in with the most ridiculous markup to begin with. It's four and five and six times what it costs them to make. Remember, they're wholesaling to themselves. So even if they mark everything down 50 off, they're still making a ton. Retailers don't have that luxury, okay, multi brands and so there's no excuse for them to be that expensive. And there, I don't think it's that much different from their prices in the couture, to be honest with you. And you know, I, I, I didn't listen, I, I've been naive to the market because I haven't shopped stores in a long time. But over the last couple of years I decided to open my eyes a little bit and I, I was shocked, you know, I was insulted. I, I, I, if I was a young person, I'd only be buying vintage, only be buying vintage because it's beautiful and the prices are more in line with than, you know, what you were talking about the late 80s, early 90s. By the way, I wanted to say one thing, that my opinion is a little different than yours because you're a lot younger than I am. But I really think the renaissance of fashion was in the 80s, not in the 90s.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I mean that's fair. I understand. I think maybe people think it peaked in the 90s.

[Gene Pressman]

Yes, it did. And then it Peter, in the 90s. That's the sad part, you know, and then I completely changed. But no, but in the, if you look at just like for example, fashion in Paris in the early 80s, there was huge change because you had all these young designers like Mugler, Montana, Gaultier, Alaia. I mean that was a big change for Paris fashion because Paris was always very conservative. Italy wasn't. So that changed a great deal. But I'm such an old guy, I guess.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, and the Japanese.

[Gene Pressman]

And the Japanese, that's true.

[Lauren Sherman]

Which I associate so much with, with Barneys too. And, and, and okay, so my final question for you. We could have, we could do two hours, but you're going to be doing many. How many of these have you done so far? A lot. A few. So out of all the designers you spent so much time in Europe, you were with these people all the time and you played with them, you worked with them. Is there one that you sort of feel like was the most impactful to your life. Maybe just personally, not even about how much you sold in the store, but is there one? Maybe it's not a designer. Maybe it's a fashion industry personality, but is there someone who you just feel like, wow, that person ended up being, like, a definitive player in my life?

[Gene Pressman]

Yeah. So I'm going to answer two people, but for two different reasons. In terms of influencing me and Barney's in general, there's no question about it. Was Giorgio Armani. Giorgio Armani changed Barney's forever, and Barney's changed Giorgio Armani forever. And Giorgio Armani changed menswear forever. Completely different sensibility. We built a huge business with him. He was extremely close with my dad. We were friends, too, obviously, but they. They loved each other and respected each other so much. It was like two peas in a pod. And, you know, it was 1976, and we had a long, long relationship with them. And no doubt that he's any. I think he's the second richest guy in Italy. So I think he did all right in terms of personal relationship and who. I thought I was astounded by how talented this person was and also how similar he and I were. And that was Azadeen Alaya. And I loved him like a brother. He would always say to me, gene, when I come back from New York and I go to Europe, he goes, did you bring it? And I go, bring what? And he goes, did you bring my passport? I go, what are you talking about? He goes, I want a passport that says Azzedine Pressman. So. And. And he. He was such a wonderful human being, but he was very shy, and he could be very arrogant and very difficult. His middle fingers were up all the time. And I just love that about him. And he didn't give a shit. Excuse my French, okay? He just didn't care. He didn't care at all. So. And he, needless to say, he's so talented and very Barney's sensibility. He was that modern, classic, beautifully made, beautiful quality, and he set trends. So I loved. I loved Assadi.

[Lauren Sherman]

I love both of those answers because they are obviously so sort of a big part of bar. Like, if you. If you did a mood board of Barneys, they would both be at the center of it. So it's nice to know that they were also integral to your life as. As a person. So that's. That's interesting. Gene, this was such a pleasure. I can't believe it's already been an hour, but hopefully we can chat again soon. And I hope, hopefully, I'll meet you in New York at one of the the. I'm sure there's going to be many, many events for the book.

[Gene Pressman]

Yes. I'm looking forward to now meet you really in person.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Thank you for taking the time. It was such a pleasure. And again, congrats. And I'm so glad that you worked with our friend of line chief Matthew Schneier on this book because it's a great, great. I'm very jealous that he got to do this with you.

[Gene Pressman]

Matt, you did a great job and really, it's a pleasure talking to you.

[Lauren Sherman]

Pleasure speaking to you and hopefully we'll see each other soon.

[Gene Pressman]

Absolutely.

[Lauren Sherman]

Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.

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