Lauren Sanchez's New Bag

Summary

Fashion People – "Lauren Sanchez's New Bag"

Host: Lauren Sherman
Guest: Chantal Fernandez (The Cut, New York Magazine)
Date: January 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Fashion People dives into the rarefied world of luxury fashion’s Very Important Customers (VICs)—the mega-spenders whose preferences, presence, and personalities increasingly shape the industry. Host Lauren Sherman, fresh off Paris couture shows, welcomes Chantal Fernandez for an inside look at what it really means to be a VIC in 2026. They discuss how VICs have become central to brand strategies, unpack the Lauren Sanchez phenomenon in couture, debate the “ick factor” of client selection, and muse on big-picture shifts in luxury consumption—all with a candid, analytical, and irreverent tone.

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Major Discussion Points & Insights

Couture Recap and Consumer Shifts (03:00–12:30)

• Personal Impressions of Couture Season
  • Lauren shares her recent experience in Paris—how couture remains about selling dreams and a few extremely expensive clothes (typically $300K–$400K a piece).
  • She praises Chanel’s subtle evolution: “If I was a rich lady, that's what I would be buying.” (05:48)
  • Discussion of Dior and Chanel’s balancing act between legacy and modernity.
• Category Health and Market Trends
  • Despite talk of a luxury slowdown (eg. LVMH’s earnings dipping, changing consumer spending priorities), insiders remain bullish—particularly on brands like Celine and trends like the popularity of cruises.
  • “Is it going to be the same kind of growth that they saw for the last 15 years? I don't think so.” (11:25, Lauren)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Customer Age & Taste

“Chanel... understands its brand positioning and its need to change a bit for a younger consumer. I'm not talking about like Gen Z, I'm talking about like 40-year-old women...”
(Lauren, 07:30)

On Market Realities

“This business is not going away. It's still gonna be incredibly profitable. It's just... not the center of consumer spending anymore.”
(Lauren, 10:43)

On the Dream of Couture

“Couture is a very unique category because it's like the ultimate example of selling a dream. But you also do like, ostensibly have to sell the clothes.”
(Lauren, 04:30)

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The Role and Rise of VICs (18:49–25:05)

• Who Are the VICs?

  • Chantal defines Very Important Customers as those “who spend an outsized amount at a brand... rewarded and encouraged to keep spending with a bunch of perks that have nothing to do with dresses and handbags.” (20:06)
  • The top 2% of customers now generate more than 40% of sales for luxury brands. Chantal suggests, “that ratio has only gotten more stark.” (19:23–19:44)

• Perks and Costs

  • Brands invest heavily in the VIC experience—think first-class flights, five-star hotels, exclusive events, and more—but also expect six-figure minimum annual spends for runway show access.
  • “You're taking... your profit off of that after you know the margin on that is 40% or something... and then you're left with like a 60 grand profit. That's still pretty good.”
    (Lauren, 23:19–23:54)

• Tiering Among Customers

  • Spend thresholds for VIC status: $200K–$300K a year for larger houses; lower for smaller brands.
  • Not all perks are equal—sometimes brands cover travel, other times just experiences.

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The Lauren Sanchez Phenomenon (26:06–31:52)

• Why All Eyes Are on Lauren Sanchez

  • Lauren Sanchez, now ubiquitous at couture, is emblematic of the new VIC era—her presence has triggered debate over the “type” of wealth and person the industry platforms.
  • Lauren notes audience backlash: “People were really enraged... Look, like, this is not a commune. Like, this is not... Fashion is a capitalist business.” (26:19)

• On Access and Brand Choices

  • Chantal explains the outrage: “It's not just that she's buying, it's that she's backstage hugging the photos... she's getting that access, that personal access.”
  • The industry’s long-standing willingness to court big spenders, regardless of optics: “Fashion brands don't discriminate. If you have the money, you can buy something.” (28:15, via Kathy Horyn quote)

• Ethics and Realpolitik

  • Chantal: “It is icky, but it's not new.” (29:27)
  • Lauren: “These are capitalist businesses that people have, like, emotionally invested in.”
  • The brands are not above quietly excluding VICs whose image doesn't mesh with the latest creative vision (“one of these luxury brands uninviting a Vic because they didn’t like the way that she looked... the creative director didn’t want her front row...” (31:00)).

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Managing Social Dynamics and Brand Perception (32:30–36:39)

• Influencer-VIC Overlap

  • Discussion of The Row’s “Substacker drama” as an example of blurred lines between influencer and client, and how luxury houses navigate aspirational but sometimes “tacky” client content.
  • “A lot of these luxury brands have clients that they're ashamed of, but that they have to keep entertaining. And they can't. These people are buying from them.” (34:48, Chantal)

• Social Climbing and Friendship

  • The VIC world has club/sorority vibes—people buy in for a sense of community, access, and status. Brands both foster this and try to maintain mystique.

• Regional Growth

  • US remains a stronghold for VICs, but much brand energy is directed at the Middle East and China.

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State of Couture and Red Carpet Impact (38:15–40:32)

• Both Lauren and Chantal agree that this couture season’s designs straddle wearability and drama, with pieces not always translating for Instagram—but that’s “healthy and indicative of who the customer is.”
• Schiaparelli stands out as a burgeoning cult favorite among VICs, especially American clients. Daniel Roseberry’s hands-on approach is noted: “He’s from Texas. He gets it.” (40:00–40:32)

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Memorable Quotes by Timestamp

• On Chanel’s Strength:
  “It really is. Any fashion writer or critic who says that their own taste doesn't kind of come into their assessment of brands is lying... but in this case...I love it.”
  (06:01, Lauren)

• On VIC Spending Stats:
  “The top 2% of customers generate more than 40% of sales for these luxury brands.”
  (19:25, Chantal)

• On Brands’ Client “Shame”:
  “These luxury brands have clients that they're ashamed of, but that they have to keep entertaining. And they can't. These people are buying from them.”
  (34:49, Chantal)

• On the Ethical “Ick” Factor:
  “It is icky, but it's not new.”
  (29:27, Chantal)

• On Social Motivations:
  “I think some people do it to make friends, especially among the younger people...there's a type of vic that we never see at shows who never wants to meet other clients and doesn't care about this at all.”
  (36:40, Chantal)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Couture Recap & Market Trends: 03:00–13:30
• What is a VIC? 18:49–21:00
• Perks, Costs, and Brand Math: 23:00–25:22
• Lauren Sanchez in Couture: 26:05–32:00
• The Row & the Client-Influencer Line: 32:30–34:40
• Community/Social Dynamics: 36:20–37:20
• Couture & Red Carpet: 38:15–40:15

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Tone & Style

• Direct, candid, analytical, with an undercurrent of humor and occasional irreverence.
• Lauren Sherman is both insider and skeptic; Chantal Fernandez covers the luxury landscape with calm precision.

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Recap Takeaways

• The fashion industry’s economics and culture are more tied than ever to a tiny, global cohort of buyers—VICs—who shape everything from design to marketing.
• The Lauren Sanchez moment is both new and not new: social media accelerates and amplifies the age-old dynamics of money, access, and image management in luxury.
• Whether you love or loathe the elite mechanics of fashion, understanding the modern VIC is key to understanding how the wheels keep turning—even as the audience for couture and luxury evolves.

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For further insider scoops, check out Lauren’s Line Sheet newsletter at Puck, and watch for Chantal’s continued coverage at The Cut and New York Magazine.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Foreign.

[A]

Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet, and today with me on the show is Chantal Fernandez, writer at the Cut and New York Magazine. Chantal is here to take us inside the world of very important customers, also known as Vic's. She tells us how much they're spending with luxury brands, what what luxury does to keep them spending. How Lauren Sanchez Bezos became their queen bee in Just a week and so much more. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical, and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world, and much more. If you're interested listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go to Puck News fashion people to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday, everyone. Hope you had a great week. I am back in Los Angeles for exactly eight days. I'm very happy to be here. The weather is beautiful. I hope to see many of you. But you know, I had an amazing time in Paris and I am glad that my family and I are going to be there for a good chunk this year. So much going on. I learned so much in just a few days. And a lot of that reporting will come out in the coming weeks. But it was, it was a great trip. Check out Line Sheet for some fun scoops and such. But I also wanted to very quickly offer some notes on the rest of couture, since you all have been asking. I know many of you are not crossover readers, but you should be sign up. It's not that much money. You can expense it. Anyway, first of all, I wanted to tell you all that Jacob Gallagher would love everyone to know that he loves Chanel. He totally got it. So anyone who was wondering, I had a couple people DM me about him. Hopefully he changed his mind now that he saw this couture. And he did. He thought it was fabulous. He stands by his feelings about the New York show, but whatever, he'll come around someday. Anyway, my personal take was that it was the exact right proposal of what couture should be, which is what I wrote. And couture is a very unique category because it's like the ultimate example of selling a dream. But you also do like, ostensibly have to sell the clothes. And most of them do get sold. Not a ton, but, you know, like these are 300, $400,000 pieces. And some people just sell one set, some people sell one set per region, some people sell five of each. You know, that type of thing. But it's. And you can customize it, blah, blah, blah. But anyway, it's not like a volume play but it is a good chunk of money. In terms of Chanel in particular, I know we talked a lot about Dior with Chris earlier in the week, but in terms of Chanel, I, you know, obviously personally loved it. It's. It really is. Any fashion writer or critic who says that their own taste doesn't kind of come into their assessment of brands is lying and you have to be like super aware of it. But in this case, it's been really fun for me to write about because I love it. And I also think it's, it's really well done. I would say if I was a rich lady, that's what I would be buying. But I know people who bought some of the Dior. It looks fabulous too. So on the Chanel I, we all obviously wanted these shoes. And again, it's just like a very clear indication that Chanel, the two tone kind of round pumps, understands its brand positioning and its need to change a bit for a younger consumer. I'm not talking about like Gen Z, I'm talking about like 40 year old women or 35 year old women. It needs to be conservative and not trendy. But it does need to speak to how people have changed. Like if you talk to someone who works at Saks or Nordstrom, like a personal shopper, they're kind of the women in their 40s and 50s. They buy the Row, they buy Phoebe Philo, they buy Givenchy. They're not, they don't want to look like old ladies. So yes, the aesthetics are all different. But I would say that there is a customer there and that's where the customer in the US with a lot of disposable income has moved. And the Chanel Ready ready to wear in particular, I think is this kind of cemented that he knows what he's doing. And there was a lot for a lot of the clients that the older clients too that maybe preferred the sort of more whimsical Lagerfeld. There was a lot of whimsy in this too, but I think that they understand that they can't. They don't want to be trendy, but they also need to speak with what's happening in the market and with consumers. I thought that he just really struck a great balance. I also really like Dior and I thought online Dior was more striking and I wrote about this. It's interesting in person, they were both great. In person. I feel very happy that I got to see both. It's super valuable. I don't get to go to shows all the time. But in this case, I didn't. It was really, really great. I think that, like, the lighting at Chanel, for someone like me who just takes a few photos, wasn't great. Like, my photos weren't great because I am not an expert photographer, whereas Dior, I didn't have as good of a seat. And my photos were just way better and more dynamic because of the lighting and the. And also his color palette was more saturated, Jonathan's than Matus. But I would say in person, the Dior was amazing. It was like a thinky collection because that's who he is. And there was a lot to love. And also there was a ton on offer for the client when you went in. Like, I think there were 60 looks and there were a hundred looks when you went in. So I. A lot of what I heard from Vic. The Vic pool was that they were excited about the other stuff too. And it sold extremely well. And people. People bought it. You know, there are a lot of galas coming the spring. Well, I don't know how maybe it will be ready for Met. I have no idea how that works. It might be too. Too long of a lead time anyway, or for fall, what have you. But I thought it was great. But I thought that, like, Dior won online and Chanel won offline. But they were both fabulous and both were very clear. The headline on the Puck piece about Jonathan's collection, Anderson's collection, was that, like, this is why he got the job. And I think that. I think that about Matt too, as well. I think Jonathan's job is harder than Matus. They're both. And it's been fun to see how it goes. And obviously we love Matthieu's taste in music. Joan Baez, Oasis, the Verve, it's. You love to see it. And that is. I don't know how he's going to keep it up. My suggestion is Jewel Foolish Games. I thought it was coming on Tuesday. I thought that was going to be what he ended with. So let's see. That's my suggestion. If someone at Chanel's listening and wants to whisper that in his. His ear. I also just wanted to say that, like, this was all happening in the backdrop of this luxury industry slowdown. On Tuesday, LVMH released their earnings and kind of said this year, 2026, it's not gonna be super easy. They have a lot of. They did really well at Louis Vuitton last year because of the Murakami stuff early in the year. And they're gonna have to as they call it in retail anniversary it, which isn't gonna be easy. Hopefully the ship in Shanghai and all the like crazy of stores which seems to be really successful for them will help. But look like. I think the market was. I don't know. It's the. The shares dropped 7%. I think they're being a little bit too negative. Like this business is not going away. It's still gonna be incredibly profitable. It's just we. It. It's not the center of consumer spending anymore. Other things are. And that was gonna happen no matter what, but the pandemic just sort of delayed it. And it. One of the hilarious things from the Bain Altagama Report was that cruises are up 12%. And so many people messaged me and said, that's crazy, but people love cruises. I will never go on a cruise, but a lot of people like them, rich and poor people. And like Wilco does cruises. People love cruises. So it's just all happening on the backdrop of that. And we have to see how these businesses manage it. Because it's look like Dior Celine at lvmh, these brands are going to see a big bump because they were down a lot last year. Is it going to be the same kind of growth that they saw for the last 15 years? I don't think so. And they just need to manage for that. And I'm sure there are smart people in that building doing buildings, doing modeling, to be careful of that. Obviously, companies like Chanel and Hermes, which are owned by the families, are just really. I mean, LVMH is controlled by the family, but those are private businesses and mostly private. Hermes obviously has some public offering, but the point being that, like, it's gonna be easier for Hermes and Chanel to manage it. LVMH has a much bigger, bigger challenge on, on their hands, but I think it's manageable. And I'm excited to see how well Celine does. I. Every single person I talked to this week was like, I'm buying Celine. I want Celine across like real fashion people. And that's exciting. And I think it's gonna, it's gonna hit. So I'm. I hope that they do. LVMH does one of those things where they're like, exceptional performance at Celine, even though they'll never break the numbers out. Maybe they will someday, but it's. I think it's gonna be good. And finally, the other thing I just wanted to say is I love that sea glass green color that Matt Blasey is introduced in his first collection. It's a very Chanel color. And obviously the red that he paired it with is a very Chanel red. But it was so it's like my favorite color combination ever. It was my bridesmaids dresses were that color which should have. I have had bridesmaids. Should we have just said a 50 person wedding? Anyway, but I love that it's my favorite color combination of all time. And he did it again in his show. But I also saw that there was like tons of. They called it jade at Armani, which the Armani couture was exceptional. It was just amazing. And if like these clients like they're just so spoiled. If you have the money, there is a beautiful clothes and also Valentino used it. He his red was like a little bit more magenta. But I love, I just love this color combo and I can't wait to see it in every single. I've always wanted a kitchen in that combo too. It's very Italian. I love it. Anyway, read more by subscribing to line sheet at Puck. And what's it going with Chantal? Chantal Fernandez. Welcome back to Fashion People.

[B]

Hi. How are you?

[A]

I'm so good, thanks. How are you doing? How's the baby?

[B]

He's really good. He's in potted plant phase and just very cute.

[A]

I've never heard that term but I understand it.

[B]

Yeah, no crawling, just sitting and being cute.

[A]

Oh, you're so lucky. Just wait. It does, you know, it does get more and more fun. Although this morning it's quite early here. It's almost 6:30am here and I was supposed to meet you at 6:15 to do this and Fritz came into my room at 5:30, was like I'm sick. And I also feel sick in a different way because I had over 24 hour commute home from Paris and so I feel terrible. This is like the sickest I felt in like decades. And he's like, I am sick. I cannot go to school. And I'm like, I don't understand what to do.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

And Dan is all, it's fine, it's fine. So you were telling me there's a new Victoria's Secret documentary that I didn't even see. But you already watched it. Tell me all about it. As I'm sure many of you know, Chantal and I co authored a book together called Victoria's Secret. No, it's called Selling Sexy Victoria's Secret and the Unraveling of an American Icon. And you can buy it anywhere books are sold or listen to it anywhere books are sold. But tell me about this doc. Who did it and why didn't they call us? They probably did. I feel like so many people called us about this stuff and I was like, we would just be like, okay, fine. And then nothing would come of it.

[B]

Well, they reached out to the, to the cut to share it. So that's why how it got to me. But it's not very. I mean, it's not very long. They made it themselves about the last fashion show. It's like 20, 25 minutes long and it doesn't have a ton of views on YouTube or anything, but it's very sweet because it's all through the eyes of Adam Sellman. And my big takeaway was like, they really made a good decision and having like such a likable central character to this current phase. Like, he's just so lovely to watch and like, he's so. Amy Sedaris is there. He's just, you know, he's very. And it's his first show, so it's all through his eyes of like experiencing it for the first time. And the models are like, oh, yeah, we've done this a million times. So it's, it's kind of sweet in that way.

[A]

Is this, Was it supported by the brand or is it separate?

[B]

Yeah, no, no, no, it's like fully brand content that they are. It was like in a way that they're marketing it. Yes.

[A]

Okay, now I understand why they didn't ask us to speak.

[B]

No, no, it's. It's marketing of their.

[A]

I thought it was one of these people who called and were like, we're gonna do it. I'm like, someone already did a documentary.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

You're never gonna find out the thing you wanna find out.

[B]

No, this is like content from the brand. Like another way that they are sort of playing with the history of the fashion show and all the behind the scenes clips instead of doing those little segments that they used to do, I guess they put it all into this one documentary. It's very sweet.

[A]

I love saying that Adam Selman is the Ed Raczik of his generation, which I'm sure there are people who love that comparison. And I'm.

[B]

I don't think that comparison is quite right. Because he's like a designer.

[A]

No, but his job is Ed's job. He's not a designer. He does not design. He's head of marketing and, and all that stuff.

[B]

Yeah, but I think he has a different sense of it. Yeah, sure.

[A]

But the actual job is the same job, which is interesting. That is interesting because he's, like, obviously complete opposite from Ed Razik in every single way. Also an awesome. Just a great person. I'm really happy for him. It's done very well. Like, the brand has performed in recent months, and a lot of that has to do with how they manage the show. And I was extremely skeptical, and I still think, like, is it modern to do that? I don't know, but. But it's working so good for them. Yeah.

[B]

And I think he has a good sense of, like, the campiness of it, but not going too far into that. So it was interesting to watch. I don't know how many people would, like, organically watch this unless you're a super fan, sort of. That audience is so much smaller. But it was interesting they put it out.

[A]

Yeah, that's interesting. Well, thank you for the update, and thanks for doing the homework, as always. Okay, so the reason I wanted to have you on this week is I just got back. I was in Paris for, like, five days, and I went to a bunch of couture shows, and I hadn't been. Well, I had been, like, probably to a couple in the last few years, but not, like, gone to all of them in probably 10 years. And what I a. They were. It was January, so I think they're smaller overall because it's cold, and it was, you know, obviously snowing in New York. There was a lot of stuff, like keeping people in their homes. But the shows were really tiny, and they were mostly made up of clients, customers who will buy these pieces. Some of them cost a million dollars address. Some of them are, you know, three. A lot of stuff is like, three, 400, $500,000. And so I. Obviously people talk about Vic's a lot, but I thought that this piece you did, how was it, like, about a year ago on the cut or.

[B]

Yeah, or I think it was for the fashion issue. Not last year, but the year before. Okay.

[A]

So like a year and a half ago, about Vic's and why Very Important customers is the long, long version of what they're called and how they've become so important. They always were. But, like, they. In the era of, like, only really expensive stuff sells, they became increasingly valuable to these big companies. And I guess, to start. Can you just kind of explain what a Vic is and, like, how it's evolved over the years because they've always existed.

[B]

Yeah, I think there's just more of them, and they carry more weight in this industry as it's gotten bigger there's the stat that I think originated from our friends at business of fashion, but that the top 2% of customers generate more than 40% of sales for these luxury brands. And I'm sure that number, that ratio has only gotten more stark.

[A]

Yeah, for like multi brand retailers, a lot of Times it's like 80%.

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, their, their influence in this business is grown. There's more of them. The wealth of the wealthiest people in the world has grown. Income disparity has grown. So it's just the focus on them is more than it was, you know, a decade or two ago and there's many more of them at shows as a result. So, yeah, a very important customer is someone who spends an outsized amount at a brand or at a department store and is rewarded and sort of encouraged to keep spending with a bunch of perks that have nothing to do with dresses and handbags, whether it's invitations, to shows, trips, anything, you name it. Sort of like these brands have turned into hospitality machines to keep these people entertained and excited and also give them a place to wear what they buy. You know, even if you're the richest person in, I don't know, Utah, you're probably still wearing your workout clothing most of the time when you're home. And then this is an opportunity to wear that couture dress you bought is to go to a fancy dinner or a ball or whatever, twice a year.

[A]

I don't smoke and I never have, but I feel like everyone else I know is suddenly smoking again. Of course, it's a free country. So if you like smoking, do what you will. But if your New Year's resolution is to quit or even to use nicotine in a healthier way, check out Quit with Jones. Visit quitwithjones.comfashion to take the free quiz and use Code fashion to get 15% off your personalized quitting journey. That's quitwithjones.com fashion taking back control starts now. Thanks to Quit with Jones for supporting this episode. And just a heads up, the mints contain nicotine, which is an addictive chemical. Jones is FDA approved and available for those that are 18 and older.

[B]

What's up, guys? I'm Candace Dillard Bassett, and you may know me from my time on the Real Housewives of Potomac or as a part of the latest cast of the Traitors.

[A]

And I'm Michael Arseneault, author of the.

[B]

New York Times bestseller I Can't Date Jesus. On our podcast, Undomesticated, we don't just say the quiet parts out loud. We're putting it all on the kitchen table and inviting you into the chaos.

[A]

If you're ready for bold takes, real talk and a little fun, come join.

[B]

Us, listen to and follow Undomesticated and Odyssey podcast, available wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

The question I have for you, let's start with because there are different tiers of these things. There's like V, VIC, VIIC, VIIIc. You know, it depends on like the couture customer I assume is sort of the top of the heap. But it's also like you buy one or two pieces that are really expensive instead of buying a bunch of stuff. But these Runway shows, like I've heard figures and I'm curious what you found in your reporting. I've heard figures that like a person who gets invited to a Runway show often are ready to wear Runway show. So that's like normal clothes will spend like you know, upward of 200 grand a year. But the thing is that like it costs them to get these people over to fly them first class, to put them up at the Ritz or wherever they put them to wine and dine them to wherever it is. That's like 30 grand a person. So like it's really cutting into, you're taking, you're cut 200 grand same. Your, your profit off of that after you know the margin on that is 40% or something like your or 60, if you're lucky at 60%, that's 90 grand, then you're putting 30 grand into doing this stuff for them and then you're left with like a 60 grand profit. That's still pretty good. But like what is the reasoning and do they, do you know anything about how they sort of put this on the balance sheet? I assume that they allot this, they like write it off in marketing. But I was just curious if you looked into that bit at all and generally how much you heard these brands were requiring people to spend in order to come to these shows.

[B]

Yeah, I heard the same. It's like 200 to 300k and then, but, but it really sort of breaks down to like what are people spending? So if you have someone in your region, you know, who's spending a lot, then you get bumped down the list. But yeah, 200 to 300k plus is what I was hearing for sort of the bigger brands. But if it's a smaller designer, it's easier to get in there. Maybe you're only spending 30k a year or something like that. And I would also say in Terms of what the brand is paying, I think it varies. They're not always paying for flights and hotels. I think that is tiered out also. Maybe they, you know, a lot of these people have their own planes. They don't. They don't need you to. To get them there. And they don't mind paying for the hotel. But what the brand is really organizing for them is like, you know, the Chanel show that was in the subway in December, they hosted private Nutcracker show, you know, a cocktail party at the Frick. So there's kind of that stuff around it that they're also organizing and paying for. But it. So it's not always that they're paying for the full, like hotels, but they are sometimes paying for like makeup artist, photographer to come along with you. So the perks really vary, I think depending on the person in the spend to make it work out.

[A]

What did you hear about couture in particular? Because there were some little details that I heard that were really interesting. But I'm curious, like. Cause that's a different league, right? Like going to couture, being invited to couture and then also being like, welcome to buy something. Yeah, I.

[B]

What I heard, because I was speaking primarily to Vic's on the ready to wear side, what I was hearing is they sort of that they were being encouraged to bridge up into couture. So maybe they were invited to couture show. They had never shopped couture before, but they had already established themselves as a good ready to wear customer. And the brand was trying to tell them, like, this is how it works. Like, this could be interesting. So it was a lot of kind of enticing people into that world that were more in the ready to wear side.

[A]

Got it. Yeah. It was interesting because I think the big narrative during this fashion week was this. Lauren. Lauren Sanchez being a couture, the whole time she was with Anna Wintour, she was with the stylist La Roach. She was at the shows. People were really enraged. Like, I'm getting DMs people mad about it. Look, like, this is not a commune. Like, this is not. We are not. Fashion is a capitalist business. Like, I don't understand what they think has been going on for years. Like, if they think she's bad, imagine all the other people that buy these dresses. Like, there are a lot of ethically questionable people buying these dresses. And there's a great. Max Berlinger, our friend posted a great quote from Kathy Horn from the late 90s saying, like, fashion brands don't discriminate. If you have the money, you can buy something. I do think they are like, I think it depends on the brand. I think the higher up you are, the. The more you need to have, like, shown that you are capable and B, that you maybe you bought ready to wear for three seasons or something like that. I think that they're not just like, letting anyone have an appointment. I think, like, you have to prove yourself a bit. But generally, like, what do you think about all this Lauren Sanchez stuff? Because it's just been interesting to me that people are upset when the reality of it is like, this is she is an example of, like, that's what the whole business is. Are these, like, kind of cheesy, ethically questionable people who have billions of dollars? Totally.

[B]

I think. I think what's grating people is not just that she's buying, it's that she's backstage hugging the photos like it's clear how chummy and close. And she's getting that access, that personal access. You know, a lot of these Vic's, maybe they'll get a quick facetime with a designer, but that's what one of the clients told me who had been, you know, shopping for decades. She's like, I was able to become friends with these people, with the designers, and now they barely have a second for me because they're so busy. So who are they making time for? Clearly, Lauren Sanchez was one of those people this season. And I think that's what's really grating to people. And the timing with the Minnesota stuff, it's just. It was very challenging, but it's really interesting to see that conversation online. I'm curious what's gonna happen with the Met Gala and all of that, but yeah, of course, when I was doing this Vic story, I spent hours and hours and hours trying to find these people and then figuring out, like, what their source of wealth is. And yeah, there's some. There's some unethical things happening, and then it's become someone's daughter or wife or, you know, whatever, and then they're shopping. And it's really interesting to kind of track that. But I think Lauren Sanchez in some ways represents a sort of idealized Vic where, you know, she's changed the way that she's dressing from a couple of years ago. Like her or not, she is certainly dressing better by industry standards. And she's fun. Like, that's what everyone says about her. She's a fun person. And, you know, I'm sure she brings a lot of attention everywhere she goes. So maybe it works out for the brands. But again, it's like the Arnaults, you know, put in a lot of time with Trump. It's. It's sort of all a version of the same thing. And I think it's natural to feel icky about it. It is icky, but it's not new.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's the thing that is. I feel like, is not understood is that. Sure, if you think it's wrong that they're engaging with them, feel free to say that. I think the issue is, like, this is a business. You don't get to choose who. Who buys your things and who doesn't. Like, these are capitalist businesses that people have, like, emotionally invested in. And, you know, if you don't like that, then don't buy any luxury. I don't know. It's just, I think, like, I understand that at some point there will be a line, and I think what was happening in Minnesota made it clear that that line will, you know, will be obvious sooner than later, and the people who were on the wrong side of the line will look really terrible. But I think generally when it comes to the Bezos in particular, I find. I don't know, I mean, I'm not. I think they act ridiculous and I'm not. But I, I just, like, I'm just like, I. I understand why the brands are engaging with them. Like, I don't. I. I think, sure. Should they. Should they really think about it? Maybe. But then if they didn't have her, they're putting. They're leaving money on the table. And also he's powerful, I will say.

[B]

Also, a story that came out of my Vic story was about one of these luxury brands uninviting a Vic because they didn't like the way that she looked. Even though she spent. She was a massive spender. But the creative director didn't want her front row because he felt like it was diluting the brand's coolness, essentially because of the way her hair was, because of the way she looked. So there is sort of precedent for, like, yes, you people are free to buy what they want, but maybe they won't be embraced in the same way where you get invited to all these things. So clearly these brands have decided they love Lauren. I mean, she's sponsoring the Met Gala. Like, she's, as Rachel wrote for cnn, she's like, she's as in. As you can be right now. So everyone has. Seems to have made their decision, and we'll see what the ramifications are.

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With code Rover PET10 additional terms and conditions apply. Rover loving pet care in your neighborhood On a smaller level, you can look at something like what happened with the ROE and that substacker whose name is. Did you see Neelam? Is that her name? Where she was sort of she met according to her substack, this is a Canadian woman who's like very chic and used to wear head to toe the Row and was like basically a substacker about the Row. Like she would just post photos of herself in clothes from the Row. And the way she puts it is that she met one of them in the store. They invited her to a show and this was a time where they were sort of experimenting, inviting more influencers to things. And then something happened where she felt like they were pressuring her too much to like link directly to them instead of my Theresa where there's a great affiliate return or whatever and it became this like silly thing where she wrote these subset the subsect series. She put it behind a pay while people were buying it and forwarding it to people. It was like everyone was talking about it because the Row is so snobby. So it like the the snobby brand that had like the chicest client. It's not like she looked didn't look amazing in and so many people like my friend Claire, her mother Barbara who listens to this sometimes shout out to Barbara. She she is like a big customer of the Row and she followed her and was like what is going on? And it was just an interesting because I was like this lady needs to chill out. Like they can invite whoever they want. On the other hand they need to be careful if they want to control stuff so much. They just need to not invite people like that ever. And so I wonder if they felt like it was a lesson to them. But I'm sure there's a balance going on like that at every brand. The Row is unique because they're small so they can Be really selective and also, also like their brand is so perfect, pristine. But I was just curious what you thought about that.

[B]

I think a lot of these luxury brands have clients that they're ashamed of, but that they have to keep entertaining. And they can't. These people are buying from them. They can't force them to wear the clothing in a certain way. I think in that situation it's interesting because it's sort of the blurring between an influencer and a client, which is also something I'm seeing because a lot of these top clients, Morgan Stewart also. Right. I think Morgan has a good approach to the Internet, but a lot of them are sort of coming to this maybe for the first time. They want to kind of be a mini Lauren Sanchez, a mini Kim Kardashian, and this is their hobby. And they make it into their sort of online personal brand. And maybe the way that they post about it is tacky. And that's something to navigate as well. You know, that's what a personal shopper had told me. You know, he advises some of his clients, like, don't post stuff like that with so many logos. You don't look good. Like, the brands are never going to invite you to the Runway show if your Instagram looks like this. So they're. The brands are looking at all of this stuff to the, to the extent that they can when they're deciding. You know, when you have two people spend the same amount, you're deciding who gets the invite. Like a lot of it comes down to this behavior and who they're sort of proud of or not. But yeah, I mean, the V. C, as someone told me for that story, is like quite tacky in a lot of cases. And the brands have to navigate that. But that's this business as it is now, where it's so global and giant and kind of difficult to control in that way. They can't force the client to behave in a certain way, especially now that they are so public about their shopping online. Yeah.

[A]

So that's. I guess my other question is, are a lot of these people doing this to sort of make it feels like almost like a sorority type thing where you're like doing it to make friends and the entry fees, the hazing is like not having the great appointment slot or whatever.

[B]

I think some people do it to make friends, especially among the younger people. Like I. I talk to a lot of people who are in Vogue 100, which is also kind of a built in a community that you buy into and people become friends and see each other at all these shows. I think there's a type of vic that we never see at shows who never wants to meet other clients and doesn't care about this at all. I think it varies. It varies. You know, there's just people who are fashion lovers and this is, this is a thrill for them. But there are some people who treat it like a job because maybe they have their, their Dallas, you know, philanthropy calendar is so intense that they need to be planning, you know, this far in advance for what they're going to wear.

[A]

And in terms of regional, like, I'm sure you talk to mostly US people, but are more and more of these people, I assume, are in the Middle east, in particular in China, and I assume that's where a lot of the growth of this area of the business is coming from.

[B]

Yes. The US Is still really strong and we can see that in the number of shows that are taking place here. Yeah. In the next year, like, I feel like everyone's coming here to do some kind of a special local show and part of that is to cater to the clients.

[A]

Yeah. Those resort and pre fall shows that they do in different cities, they are often very client focused. So for people listening, like, you go. And that's again, there. It's like half, half clients at the shows.

[B]

And then they'll do sort of repeat shows that already took place in a different city in places in the US or in Shanghai. And that's another way to get clients excited.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Chantal, what did you think of Couture?

[B]

I thought it was beautiful and interesting in the way that some of it didn't sort of translate purely to Instagram, which I think is healthy and indicative of who the customer is there. I agree. I'm interested. I have been a little perplexed by some of the red carpet use of these debut collections. And I thought it looked better and I'm interested to see how it translates to the red carpet.

[A]

Yeah, same. I thought that the Dior in particular, there was a lot of stuff that's good for Oscars, that it's just been hard. I think that obviously that's a very big job and so there's a lot of moving parts and I don't think anything has like, they've totally nailed a red carpet dress yet. And I think the silhouettes in the Couture were as much that they could. So I think it'll be interesting to see. And it'd also be interesting to see. Chanel was, you know, as many people have pointed out, a lot of a lot of day wear. So there, you know, some of that can work for Oscars. The really light. The light Mussolini. Very, very, very light dresses. They could figure something out and make it more formal looking. But a lot of it, it wasn't casual, but it was definitely day wear. And so I bet there obviously Oscars is when you do custom, so. But I think it. I agree it was a good. And I thought Armani was really beautiful. Schiaparelli will do a couple good Oscars. It'll be interesting.

[B]

Schiaparelli came up in my story as everyone, the vic's favorite brand, like, everyone is nuts for it. Like, cult following among these women. They collect it. Especially in the U.S. i would say.

[A]

It feels like it is like that business is those clients. Like, they have a great ready to wear business. I think at, you know, Animan Martin, they're Animan Marcus in the U.S. fingers crossed. But yeah, I think like, the business is built on those clients. So he's. He's smart and he, I think out of all the designers is probably one of a few who still spends a lot of time with the clients. He's from Texas. He gets it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Daniel Roseberry, we're talking about Chantal. I'm. I feel like I'm gonna die, so I'm gonna let you go.

[B]

Okay. Well, I hope this was helpful.

[A]

It was great to see you. I'll see you in a couple of weeks.

[B]

Yes, for sure. Thanks for everything.

[A]

Oh, wait. Do I ask you what you have for breakfast this morning? No, no, let's just do it at the end. What'd you have?

[B]

Okay. I had oatmeal. Is that really exciting stuff still?

[A]

It sounds delicious.

[B]

Do you share what you're eating for.

[A]

Breakfast or is that sometimes. I did eat this morning because I feel terrible, but I had a little bit of banana and peanut butter, so hopefully. I think I might just be dehydrated. I don't know. The world does not need to know all this stuff. But I'm gonna go back to school.

[B]

Better.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador. This year's tax changes better not get caught snoozing.

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Thousands. Not amusing. Big tax changes can mean bigger refunds.

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