Leandra's Theory of Everything

Summary

Fashion People — “Leandra’s Theory of Everything”

Host: Lauren Sherman
Guest: Leandra Medine Cohen
Date: October 21, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Lauren Sherman sits down with fashion writer and entrepreneur Leandra Medine Cohen for an incisive, free-ranging conversation covering Leandra’s new Swedish Stockings tights collaboration, the contemporary state of fashion and design partnerships, Hermes’s secret to stability amid big changes, and what recent red carpets reveal about personal style. Expect sharp insights, practical lessons, and vibrant fashion banter.

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Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Style, Dresses, and “Breakthrough Points”

• Both Lauren and Leandra share a reluctance to wear dresses, feeling that dresses can be more “armor” than personal expression:
  • Leandra: “I find it really hard to find a breakthrough point with dresses. They just feel like armor.” (09:25)
  • She explains “breakthrough points”—the moments in an outfit that reveal personality or “humanness” (09:07).
• Tights, in Leandra’s view, create an opportunity for breakthrough:
  • “I did a whole newsletter about tights being the main event of an outfit...it would actually be amazing to create a complete collection of tights that feel like they can be an outfit centerpiece.” (11:18)

2. Leandra’s Collaboration with Swedish Stockings

• Leandra was already organically a fan, attracted to their subtle compression and comfort.
• The collection seeks to make tights an “outfit centerpiece,” challenging their typical role as functional/hygienic/everyday—or only holiday-wear.
• Design details: Opaque dove gray with silver shine (“dirty snowflake twinkling in the sun”), red shiny, sheer white—each with styling flexibility.
• Notable Moment: Lauren notes that even in LA, "the idea of wearing tights even when it's kind of chilly would be...kind of feel crazy here." (14:42)

3. The State of Collaborations in Fashion (and Why They Work)

• Leandra feels collaborations succeed because of “the energy burst” that comes from merging two creative visions—far more than simple marketing.
  • “There’s something that is, like, almost more fulfilling about the challenge of finding, like, creative expansion after all of those nos have been, like, deployed.” (18:53)
• Essential Insight: Tension is necessary—a sense of creative pushback ensures substance.
  • Lauren: “When there’s no tension in a project, you can tell and...not as successful. Tension is what makes the thing good.” (19:13)
• Stylists, Leandra argues, play a vital analogous role inside brands: “You need a second set of eyes that are different...to spin [the clothes] into something else.” (20:09)

4. Hermès: Change Without Drama

• Lauren details visiting Hermès’s Nashville store opening—a carefully considered, drama-free operation despite concurrent leadership changes.
  • “There is change and we move on and we do the next thing...They operate from a place of practicality.” (29:12)
• Reflection on how Hermès maintains stability and creativity by treating designers as focused collection-makers rather than business managers.
  • “Someone designs a collection, they should not be responsible for the profits of the entire business for the next 20 years. The collection needs to sort of enhance the rest of the business.” (32:56)

5. Changing Silhouettes and Desire for Authenticity

• Style is visibly changing: silhouettes are moving downward (low-rise, heavier belts over silk), and there’s a shift in cravings—less about trends, more about authenticity and “the original thing.” (24:40, 40:03)
• Leandra: “I'm kind of like, just gimme the pants, give me the shirt...then I’m gonna be thoughtful with my jewelry. It feels like a yearning for more thoughtfulness.” (41:11)
• Lauren and Leandra touch on the cultural gravitation toward established, heritage brands that do one thing exceptionally well (e.g., Charvet), and a disdain for over-marketed, “fashionified” versions.

6. Connection, Clarity, and Information Overload

• Both discuss the emotional/mental toll of the fashion industry’s constant stream of newness and social media:
  • Lauren’s anecdote about losing phone access highlighted her dependence on “the dopamine hit of Instagram,” sparking a desire for boundaries and clarity. (42:34)
  • Leandra: “Being on social media necessarily takes you outside of yourself...I come back from these bouts of time off a phone and I’m like, ‘Oh. I’m like in dialogue with my intuition again.’” (45:02)

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Red Carpet Review: Academy Museum Gala

[47:00–53:41]

• The gala, positioned as the start of Oscar season, showcased both custom and runway-fresh looks.
• Danielle Goldberg’s styling prowess, especially with Zoe Kravitz (Saint Laurent) and Greta Lee, stood out:
  • Leandra: “These are like real cool girls, and seeing them dressed for red carpet is...quite arresting. It’s the tension.” (49:03)
• Notable looks:
  • Emily Ratajkowski in electric blue Gaultier (49:16)
  • Olivia Rodrigo and Sydney Sweeney in Armani Privé (51:02–51:11)
  • Kirsten Dunst’s consistently killer Rodarte—“She is Rodarte. She really represents the brand to me. And she wears it so softly. It’s very tender.” (51:24–51:28)
  • Elle Fanning’s Balenciaga: mixed reviews, with Lauren desiring more “shrunken” pieces lately (50:41–50:58)
  • Noted a new red-carpet trend: “sweatshirty relaxed thing and a skirt” (50:25)
  • Shout-out to Alessandro Michele’s “very cool menswear” (52:12)
• Lauren’s “favorite of the night”: Greta Lee in Dior (53:41)

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Notable Quotes

• Leandra on personal style:

  “There are no breakthrough points. I wrote a newsletter about...the crack or the opening in an outfit that allows someone else to see your...humanity.” (09:07)

• Leandra on collaborations:

  “There’s something that is, like, almost more fulfilling about the challenge of finding, like, creative expansion after all of those nos have been, like, deployed.” (18:53)

• Lauren on Hermès:

  “The way they operate is so...from a place of practicality that this was not going to be a big drama, no matter what.” (29:12)

• Leandra on clarity and social media:

  “Being on social media necessarily takes you outside of yourself… I come back from these bouts of time off a phone and I’m like, oh. I’m like in dialogue with my intuition again.” (45:02)

• On red carpet style:

  “These are like real cool girls, and seeing them dressed for red carpet is...quite arresting. It’s the tension.” (49:03, Leandra on Danielle Goldberg’s styling)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 07:59 — Leandra joins; weekend and motherhood chat
• 08:41 — Dresses vs. separates; "breakthrough points" in outfits
• 10:16 — Swedish Stockings collaboration: creative approach and vision
• 16:32 — The evolution and future of fashion collaborations
• 20:09 — The essential role of stylists and creative tension
• 24:40 — Low-rise silhouettes, what excites now in fashion
• 25:36 — Hermès’s legacy, designer transition, and management lessons
• 32:56 — Retreat to traditional design structures
• 40:03 — Why “the original thing” is so appealing; authenticity in shopping
• 41:11 — Yearning for thoughtfulness in dressing and purchases
• 42:34 — Information overload, boundaries, and clarity
• 47:00 — Academy Museum Gala: red carpet trends and style favorites

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Tone and Language

The tone is conversational, candid, and insight-rich, with both Lauren and Leandra blending deep industry knowledge and personal anecdotes. The episode is peppered with humorous asides, warm self-deprecation, and sharp cultural criticism; both speakers are optimistic about fashion’s future, but advocate for intentionality, authenticity, and joyful experimentation in a world oversaturated by trends and content.

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Perfect for listeners who want to understand not just what’s stylish, but why it feels meaningful to real “fashion people”—and how the industry’s biggest shifts are happening quietly, beneath big headlines.

Transcript

[A]

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[A]

Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet and today with me on the show is Leandra Medine. We're discussing her new tights line for Swedish stockings, the state of the collaboration, the state of Hermes Best Dressed at the Academy Museum Galley, and plenty more. Happy Tuesday everyone. Hope you had a great weekend. I am back in Los Angeles where tonight I am hosting a Puck private dinner with the great people from List. I am so excited to see Emma and Jenny and and Katie and everyone else. We did one of these in Paris with List a couple of years ago in November, like right around Thanksgiving, November 23rd. And I'm so happy to be reunited, especially in my current hometown. It'll be so fun. The guest list is incredible. I'm sure there will be lots of conversation that you'll never know about because it's all off the record but super, super pumped for for tonight. This week on Line Sheet you'll find a report on Hermes. There are lots of changes at the company right now, but they sort of illustrate exactly why it's so stable. Very little drama over there. I'm sure there's drama behind the scenes, but not drama that I find out about. And that says something. It's really about being practical and doing the right thing. As many of you know, their menswear designer retired last week and today they announced, I believe that they are going to announce the new designer today. So you'll, you'll know who it is by the time you listen to this. But I also have a pretty big magazine cover scoop. Yes, that can still happen. Rachel Strugatz weighs in on the fact that Kering is selling its beauty unit for 4 billion euros to L'. Oreal. This is a huge deal and she'll write about it later this week too. And I think it's going to sort of be an ongoing story for Rachel. The push pull between l', Oreal, Estee Lauder and Coty and what it means for the beauty industry. I'm very excited to read about it. And really quickly, I also wanted to give you a little retail report from Nashville. You all really responded to my Montecito retail report. So I went to Nashville last week to cover the Hermes store opening. You can read more about it in line sheet. All of these secondary and tertiary cities are hyper developed now. And we were talking about on the trip, they all sort of look like Williamsburg, Brooklyn and Denver, Colorado. Like what's the difference? I don't know. Same stores, same aesthetic. It's all about mixed use. Mixed use is not a new thing. But like you have to have the right mix of places to get the young people to come in. There is a ton of money in Nashville right now. It's all external, I think because the music industry is big there. A lot of whole Hollywood people live there. And then also like I ran into so many people who have just moved there at the Hermes dinner. Like Will Guidara was there, who is, you know, restaurateur and hospitality guy. His book is great. But then there was just a lot of people who have moved from New York to Nashville, which I may have mentioned last week. Anyway, there is a crew of developers known for these like cool young players places. Jamestown, which did Chelsea Market is probably the most famous and they've done them in a bunch of cities. And then there are people who have sort of come out of Jamestown and created their new own thing in Nashville. There's this guy, Ben Weprin of AJ Capital Partners, which is developing the Wedgwood, Houston area where Hermes just opened. They are developing this big mansion that the Kings of Leon used to own. It's really interesting. Anyway, Ben is also the guy behind Little river in Miami and has A really good reputation. A couple of my real estate sources messaged me after I went and was like, oh, Ben's the best. But there's just so much happening in Nashville. It's crazy. Lots, as I mentioned, lots of external money. But the development that really blew me away, it's called Neuhoff. It is being developed by New City Properties which did Ponce City Market in Atlanta, which you've probably been to if you're American. So Neuhof is on the Cumberland river and it's all these old buildings that were the city's meatpacking district, like way back in the early 1900s. It kind of reminded me of a more rugged Coldrops yard for people in Europe like or something like that. All the buildings here and the other thing like Coldrops yard is where a lot of tech. I think Google has things there. This is, this Neuhauf development which is like 900,000 square feet is going to be adjacent to the Oracle Global headquarters. So you're going to. I think they're going to make a little footbridge. So it will become the village of. In the same way, Platform in Los Angeles is the village of like Sony Studios and Apple and Nike and all that. This will become the village of the Oracle headquarters. But the architecture itself is what it really blew me away. So all the buildings are sort of like crumbling and half open. This company called S9, if you just Google Neoff and S9 you can see it and it's just like breathtaking, I have to say. Like you can. The restaurants are inside, but then you sit outside in these half open spaces and then they have a walkway that reminded me sort of of the High Line. Anyway, I went over there with Libby Calloway who many of you know, she's the go to person if you're a global brand doing it related to Nashville. She was a fashion editor for a long time, New York Post, all that stuff. So everybody knows Libby. She and I stopped by Sid Mashburn which is started in Atlanta but has stores all over the country. Sid and Ann both have great stores and do a really good job. I got to say hi to Sid, who was in town for the Hermes event. We looked at his tie table. He told me the more ties you make, the more you sell. They're really, really great. But it's such an interesting business. Anyway, if you go to Nashville, I would say check out Wedgwood, Houston because you're obviously going to want to see this Hermes. But also check this Neuhau out. I am Obsessed with retail and development and what it says about society. And I would literally come back just to walk around the space. But let's get going with Leandra. Leandra Medine Cohen, welcome back to Fashion People.

[C]

Hi. Lauren Sherman. Thank you for having me again.

[A]

I'm so happy to have you. How was your weekend?

[C]

My weekend was good. It was okay.

[A]

Yeah. Same. Yeah.

[C]

Kids. I love my kids and I love my career.

[A]

I know.

[C]

That is what's hard. I love both so much.

[A]

Yeah. You have three.

[C]

I do.

[A]

I'm always like, I just have one. It's not that big of a deal, but it is.

[C]

I don't. I think that when your attention is being taken from yourself to anything outside of yourself, it's the same thing.

[A]

Yeah. I was asked why I don't wear dresses this weekend.

[C]

I don't wear dresses either. It just doesn't feel like enough personal style.

[A]

As someone with way less personal style than you, I don't. I don't know. I think it just hasn't been. Yeah. It doesn't do it enough for me.

[C]

There's not enough room. What I mean when I say personal style is that there's not enough room to. There are no breakthrough points. I wrote a newsletter about this concept of breakthrough points, like, three weeks ago.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Which is basically about, like, the crack or the opening in an outfit that allows someone else to see your. This is going to sound so, like, elitist or dramatic, but your humanity, meaning just your humanness.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And dresses, like. I find it really hard to find a breakthrough point with dresses. They just feel like armor.

[A]

Yes. And maybe that's why more body conscious stuff has become more popular. I bought a Emily dawn long dress that I wore to send this to you. Yeah.

[C]

No. But I have a dress of hers that I absolutely adore also. It does a lot of weird things and it's common, so it feels easier.

[A]

Yes. And I think there's something about the way it is with the body. But what I will say is I understand what you're saying. There's not enough to think about if you just wear a dress. Yeah. It's fascinating. I feel like a breakthrough point could be a pair of your Swedish stockings.

[C]

What a perfect segue.

[A]

I did it. I did it. Tell me about this collaboration with Sweet. What is Swedish Stockings? How did you end up collaborating with them? And tell me what your vision is for. For this?

[C]

Yeah. Swedish Stockings is a tights brand that's based in Sweden and I've been wearing their tights for, I guess probably like four years. I'm a. I'm an organic fan because there's like the slightest bit of compression in the tights. So they also keep you really, like sealed in in a way that's really comforting. I don't actually, it's not fact checked. I kind of just assume that there's a slight bit of compression in them because they like, they hold me in in a very, like, comfortable way.

[A]

Nice. You look really hot in them. I did notice that.

[C]

Thank you so much. Thank you. But so I've been wearing the tights for a number of years and like last year, I guess they started sending me some pairs and they sent me this leopard print pair that I wore a lot and actually ended up wearing as or I did a whole newsletter about tights being the main event of an outfit. And shortly after that newsletter, they reached out and asked if we wanted to do a collaboration. But it wasn't the first time that we had been in touch about potentially working together. Just the timing hadn't been right yet. And on the heels of that newsletter, I was like, it would actually be amazing to create a complete collection of tights that feel like they can be an outfit centerpiece so you don't have to think so much about everything else that you have going on in your clothes. And I also feel like tights tend to feel so specific to the holiday season or like a necessary evil for staying warm in the winter. And so I wanted to turn that on its head.

[A]

It also could be a good breakthrough point.

[C]

They are a great breakthrough point.

[A]

Even with a dress?

[C]

Well, yeah, like with a little black mini dress. The tiger tights. Wild.

[A]

The tiger tights are so good. I love them. So what. And, and Becky wore. Our friend Becky Malinsky wore a pair of your. The gray ones in which are like a dove gray. I feel like in her newsletter this weekend. And I thought, oh, those tights look really good. And they were of course part of, of your collaboration. So what's the sort of mix of available styles there?

[C]

So that dove gray pear has the slightest bit of shine in it. It's. It's a very subtle. It's like a very subtle silver or as I like to call it, dirty snowflake twinkling in the sun. Because it's like a little shiny. Those are pretty opaque. And they also come in like a, in like a red shiny. And the red shiny are really fun to sty. Not for holiday. Like, I was just shooting them for a newsletter and I put them with a sheer white top that like it was very 70s and some low rise, like cobalt blue pants. Them over the pants with the shirt tucked in. It was a little bit Peter Moulier Alaia. You know, those corseted jeans. That was the vibe and that felt like an exciting accomplishment when I landed on that outfit.

[A]

I like that. I also love. I'm just like going through them now. And I really love the sheer white pair as well.

[C]

The sheer white pair is. I fought for those. I really needed those to be in the collection because I personally have been looking for. And it's always like this. Right. The thing that you feel is missing in your wardrobe is often the thing that resonates most. But I was really wanting a pair of sheer white tights because I love white tights. But they, when they're opaque, they don't offer that much like depth and texture to an outfit.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

They look really great with white shoes if you're a person.

[A]

Oh, that's. Yeah, I might get them also. They in L. A. This is just not a conversation. Like, there's just. That's the idea of wearing tights even when it's kind of chilly. Would be. Kind of feel crazy here.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

This would be a moment when it would make sense.

[C]

Well, are you also feeling that the gravity of exposed skin is heading south? I'm less and less interested in wearing open toe shoes with, like turtlenecks and jackets. Find myself wearing tank tops and boots a lot.

[A]

Ah, that's interesting. Yeah, I've been wearing boots quite a bit, but that's a good point. And also the tights with sandals, which I feel like you definitely spearheaded that trend, still feels really right to me.

[C]

Yeah. There's just something nice about a closed toe.

[A]

Yes. Yes. Before they became icons, Tumi, Selena and navigation backpacks were tested again and again, yanked, tumbled, and pushed to the limit until there was no question. Only performance shop the icons in store [e-mail]. so you do a lot of these partnerships because you are someone. If you wear something, people want it or are inspired by it. And you've done, I don't know, dozens or hundreds of these over the years. I remember when you had your shoe line that was like fully, fully yours.

[C]

What?

[A]

As someone who's also an observer of the industry, what do you think about the sort of trajectory of the collaboration concept? Because it used to be every year I wrote a marketing story about like, our collaboration's dead. I think that people don't write those anymore because obviously they are just like a part of the marketing playbook. But in your experience, when do these partnerships work? When do they not? And what do you think the sort of state of that part of the industry is, is right now?

[C]

It's funny that you're asking, because I've been thinking a lot about just the concept of creative collaboration, and I believe the reason they've become so popular is because there's a real, like, energy burst that comes from taking two different creative visions and bringing them together to create something new. And I have been finding more and more lately that I'm craving creative partnership, creative collaboration. So I'm never really thinking about it from a marketing perspective. For me, it's so much more about the connection of two distinct creative visions and what happens when they're pushed back against each other and embraced. And with Swedish Stockings and Cody Litke, who shot the campaign for us in particular, like, there were three. And this is the same as it was with sir also, the French brand that I've collaborated a few times. They have such a specific point of view and like a, a respect for the creative process. And there's, there's like a really healthy pushback on. Okay, well, we understand. Like, we expected that you were gonna want to, you know, stud the top of the tights and have them be footed with five to. These are the reasons we can't do those things. And yes, we expected that you were going to want a pair of tinfoil silver tights. We can't do that. And here's the reason. And there's, there's something that is, like, almost more fulfilling about the challenge of finding, like, creative expansion after all of those nos have been, like, deployed.

[A]

Yeah. I think that idea of if anyone who we. I always say I come from a place of yes, but I love from.

[C]

A place of yes.

[A]

It's important. It's been important to my life. But there is a. But it's important to have tension and pushback when, when there's no tension in a project, you can tell and it's. And it's most of the time not as successful because tension is what. Like that creative collaboration, like you're saying that tension is what makes the thing good. So if they were like, do whatever you want, it would be cool, but maybe it wouldn't. People wouldn't connect with it so closely because there wasn't that sort of like being made uncomfortable.

[C]

Yeah. So I think that collaborations will continue because they're a low stakes and exciting way to bring new life and energy into a brand and that they work when you can feel the tension and this is also, by the way, why stylists are so important to brands.

[A]

I agree.

[C]

You need a second set of eyes that are different from the eyes that are constantly looking at the clothes, that are making the clothes to, like, take them and spin them into something else.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It really. I don't know if you felt this. This season, but I really felt the need for. Some designers don't use stylists or they. Their team does it themselves. I mean, they use stylist. They do it themselves or their team does it. But I really saw it in the collections this season. Who worked with stylists, who didn't, and who's working with the right stylist or the wrong stylist? Because. And that. That collaboration changes. Like Katie Grant and Muchia Prada worked together for years. I think they still have a really good relationship. But then Yucha from youmu started using latte, and that totally transformed the. The business and. And their. And that is a sort of It. Those relationships sort of run their course like any relationship in. Yeah, in many ways.

[C]

Yeah, totally. It did feel a bit like the season of the stylist, maybe. I guess it's not just me who was more plugged into what a difference the styling of a collection makes. It kind of feels like the whole thing.

[A]

Yeah. It was such a. It was so important this season. And sometimes it wasn't because the clothes were either so good or not enough, but I thought there was a couple. Like, I thought at Loewe, I thought Jody Barnes, you could really see that Jody Barnes is so good at, like, basically, like, cinching, like, zipping up collections in this really sharp way. And I thought, I mean, who knows? They're also pretty sharp, slick designers, so maybe it would have been similar. But I thought I could just. I see when he. He does a collection, which is interesting. What did you think of the Charvet Chanel conversation? They're not calling it a collaboration. They're calling it conversation.

[C]

Super unsurprising. Yeah, I. I'm so. The thing that I find.

[A]

What I.

[C]

Found most interesting and important about the Chanel show is that Chanel has always existed in a universe of its own making, like, completely outside of the industry, but also still of it. And this goes back kind of to the point that of creative collaboration more broadly is choosing Mattio Blasi as the designer was making a choice to participate in the conversation. And there's almost like a creative generosity of spirit in opening the doors of Chanel and being like, we are. We are actually going to participate in this conversation now. Our clothes are going to be in dialogue with the broader industry, and this is how it's going to go. So the Charvet collaboration felt like the first in a series of ways that the house is about to change.

[A]

Yeah. And there is something about the way he works that is he has, like, a sense of wonder and it's childlike of. And I think that's why everyone connects so closely to it, because it is the reason we love fashion. It's not because he's trying to be cool or trying to, like, check a bunch of boxes. It feels like. And it is. It really connects, like, to the desire of wanting to, like, dress up. And that, to me, is what makes it so special. And I agree. It's not a surprising. It feels so right. Like, it just felt like the right thing, and I'm glad they did it. I will not be buying one of the shirts, but I am excited for everyone who does. I'm saving my pennies for a $27,000 skirt suit.

[C]

I'm really curious to see how not to use Chanel is received by the culture. Like, I'm really curious to see how it plays out in the world.

[A]

Yeah. See how the high street interprets it. Which pieces kind of connect. What it are we. I think we're definitely all going to be wearing low, low rise skirts.

[C]

Yeah. That's already started as far as. And I. I have been craving and styling silk skirts, like, un. Worn low rise with, like, heavy leather belts over them. There's something about the, like, thick material with the flimsy, that contrast that just feels so delicious right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Style is changing for sure. I'm feeling. I'm in, like, one of those phases where I go into my closet and I'm like, none of this is right. It's all dated.

[A]

Yeah. I am feeling that too. You're right. It's the silhouettes moving, like you said down and. And it's. And it's exciting. It's just a matter of how are we. How are we going to replace the step? You know what? You know, what never changes but is always changing. But because it's always changing, it stays the same. Is Ermes.

[C]

That's correct.

[A]

Another good segue.

[C]

It's never too early or too late to buy a pair of riding boots.

[A]

It's true.

[C]

In particular, if you're a man.

[A]

That's definitely true. So speaking of, last week, Hermes announced that it's menswear designer of 37 years, Veronique Nikonian. Which I am sure I'm mispronouncing. Do you think that's right?

[C]

Veronique. I don't know how it's spelled, but.

[A]

I wonder if she's Armenian.

[C]

I was just gonna ask that. Either Armenian or Persian.

[A]

You know, I'm a quarter Armenian.

[C]

I didn't know that.

[A]

Yeah, we can talk about it offline. I'm very proud. But she has been with the company for 37 years. She announced her retirement by the time this airs. From what I know, the new designer will be announced. Veronique is going to do one final show in January. I'm, like, this close to booking a ticket. I think it could be really amazing to see. I've. I've really enjoyed seeing her shows over the years when I occasionally pop into the men's shows, but it's interesting. So I was at this Nashville, and I'm curious what you think about how they work. So I'm at this. I make a decision to go to their Nashville store opening because I knew that a lot of senior executives, including the CEO Axel Dumas, was going to be there. It's a week after Fashion Week, but I thought, I'm gonna just do it. It's two days. It'll be worth it to, like, spend time with the team and see how. How do you open an Hermes store in Nashville? And it was super valuable. I'm so glad I went. It was totally worth the time and money and all of that stuff. But as after our Gibson Guitar Factory tour and lunch, I see on StyleNotCom that Le Figaro. Congrats to Matthieu over at Le Figaro for breaking this news. By the way, I'm a fan of his that Veronique was stepping down. This is a mere hour or two before they're about to do this Nashville opening. And I was promptly told, don't even try. Axel's not going to say anything about this. But of course, I tried a little bit at point this at the event, and he kind of was like, whatever. Like, just shrugged. I feel like any other executive would have been like, oh. And he was just like, whatever. And I would say, you know, being in that store, there were probably three of us who don't work at Hermes who knew that this happened. And we went to the. We went to the store. We went to the event. Axel sat with Jack White. Jack White sang a song. Alison Mosshart sang a song that Jack White had create, like pressed in an album at Third Man Records specifically for Hermes. It was a beautifully done space. Nothing would indicate to anyone that, like, such a major thing had happened at this company that day. And to me, it kind of spoke to the fact that, like, the way they operate is so. I don't want to use the word humble, but it's like, from a place of practicality that this was not going to be a big drama, no matter what. I'm sure they've been planning this for a long time. I'm sure whenever she said, I would like to retire, they made a plan. They already have. The person in place. I've never once heard. The only name that I've ever heard come up around it is Grace Wells Bonner. I have no idea. I don't think that's who it is. But we'll know by the. Again, by the time this runs. And there is. There was such a lack of. It was just like, this is what happens when you run a business that's almost 200 years old. There is change and we move on and we do the next thing. And the way that they opened this Nashville store, which is in this really early developed neighborhood called Wedgwood, Houston, in an old hosiery factory, that type of thing. There's no other luxury goods stores around there. I think Brunello Cuccinelli will open and it will become a development because Hermes was there first, but it will require people to. It will be a destination. And I don't know, it's just a really interesting. Once again, it's such a good lesson for the industry at large. I don't think people should try to copy Hermes. That won't work. But the idea of, like, this stuff just happens and we need to manage through it and manage the process instead of having a sort of. There's no panicking at that company is the indication that I get.

[C]

Yeah, that's interesting. Do you think that's also because it's a universe. It exists within a universe of its own making. It's that similar thing of not really ever looking beyond their own shoulders.

[A]

Well, I think. Yes. And it'll be interesting to see who they did pick, because if it is someone. If it was someone like Grace or someone like you said, Mattieu is in the conversation. It'll be like Nadej is in the conversation, but within the Hermes language. And she also was not.

[C]

I'm such a fan.

[A]

Oh, I love.

[C]

I love, love her. And just like her depth, like the. The way that the collections change but stay the same. She's a true designer.

[A]

Yes. And I think whoever it is, whether it's a name or not, it's. It will be a true designer. And it's funny, when. When Chanel was looking, I remember hearing from people inside that they were getting. They were like, we are going to treat this more like Hermes treats their designers, which is that their job is to design the collection and not to drive the entire business. And there's been a lot of talk in the industry recently because of something the new caring CEO Luca de Meo said about this 20% rule where 20% of the business should be direct Runway, direct from the Runway, and 80% should be everything else. And the thing is, like, Chanel, Hermes, they've been operating, whether or not it's exactly 20 operating like this forever. And I see our entrenchment back to sort of the old playbook in a responsible way. Like, someone designs a collection, they should not be responsible for the profits of the entire business for the next 20 years. The collection needs to sort of enhance the rest of the business. And so it'll be interesting to see who it ends up being, is there. I. I almost hope it's someone like Nadej's profile, someone who was at a lot of different places behind the scenes and had a very, very good reputation and then is able to create something completely new and her own. And I've really enjoyed. I know you and I have talked about this idea of, like, sexy dressing and empowering dressing a lot in the last couple years, and I think she is. What she's done there is like example number one of that. Like, it's not like she is making stuff that is overtly sexy, but it's super sexual and super, like, makes you feel good to put it on. But is there anyone on the menswear side that you think could be an interesting person that you. You would.

[C]

Or.

[A]

Or a kind of person you'd like to see them hire?

[C]

So I was thinking about this earlier, and this is not. This is not the right person, but someone who feels like Teddy Santis to me, who really creates a universe based on heritage, feels like the right profile.

[A]

Yeah. You know, honestly, like a Michael Rider.

[C]

Yeah, totally, totally.

[A]

Too bad he's taken. But. Yeah, I know what you mean. I think there's so much opportunity in menswear, and especially now that women and men sort of shop over each other, overlap so much. Like, men shop women, women shop men. And I always. I really liked Veronique's collections, and they were. They were in the conversation in an interesting way, and there were people who really didn't like it. It's interesting There were people who are obsessed with it and people who didn't like it at all. It was weirdly polarizing in that, which I don't think happens in menswear a ton. But I think you're right that there is just the other big thing about Hermes that people don't realize is it's not cheap. I'm not saying that it's still really expensive. It's the most. You know, it's the highest echelon of luxury good. But, like, the price, the value in the product is really high. So if you look at the prices of other things across the business, they are as expensive as Hermes or. And sometimes more expensive, and the value isn't there. They really take this idea of not. They price things because of how much they cost. They're very insistent that they don't take marketing into consideration. They don't do as many price hikes as other companies. And when they do, it's really based on price. Raw material. Look, you have to take that with a little bit of skepticism. But I think, for the most part, the intent is true, and I think there is an opportunity to reach a new customer looking for menswear that maybe doesn't think of Hermes first thing. And I think what Nadej has done is made people like us think of Hermes like, you're gonna buy a pair of designer cowboy boots. They're gonna be from Hermes. They're not gonna be.

[C]

Yep, that's from. You're right.

[A]

Anyone else? And I think she's done that without making it trendy.

[C]

Why do you think that's happened for a brand like Charvet? Like, part of me does wonder if the reason that Hermes is so interesting and valuable in pop culture is for a similar reason that Charvet has sort of popped off. Although maybe you'll say the Olsens.

[A]

No, I mean, it is true that the Olsens are ahead of all of us and were stocking Charvet slippers like, what, 10 years ago in their store. No, I mean, and Sofia Coppola, obviously, like, is the reason. I know what Charvet is, that type of thing, but I think it has to do. I've been thinking about this a lot, and I wrote about it a little bit last week when Sarah did a big piece. Sarah Shapiro did a big piece on, like, why Charvet is so appealing. Like, it's a private equity dream and they'll never sell. Hopefully. Every time I leave that story, I say, don't sell. But I think it's because it's so pure, like a. You Go there, you buy a shirt, it's €400. It's not a thousand euros for a button down shirt, it's €400. Now the Chanel shirts as reported in line sheet and elsewhere will be a lot more than that, but they'll be over $4,000. But, but so reasonable. So reasonable. But I think, I think what we are all seeking as people who love clothes is an experience that's going to make you feel something like, I can't really go shopping in America anymore. That's potentially the most pretentious thing I've ever said. But I travel a lot for work and when I go to Paris, I go to occasionally in Milan, but mostly go to Paris and go to a couple of stores because it feels like it makes it feel worth it because it's like a. There's nothing like we were saying, there's nothing in for. There's no boxes being checked there. There's just really nice shirts. And if they make a red shirt with red buttons, it's because they think it looks nice. There's no idea of we need to talk. We need to target a certain customer by making a red shirt with red buttons.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And, and also they're very nice. There's no line. I, someone was asking me, do you think there's going to be a line? I don't think so. I don't think that they'll. It'll ever go that far. I hope not. But, but like they're nice. You go in, they have an opinion, they'll tell you. Actually, I don't think that looks good on you. Yeah, you need to get this size.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

The last time I went, I bought a plain blue shirt. She said when you come back, you need to come and get it taken up. It's too long. Like I've never done the custom. I'm going to try to do the custom next year. But I think it's this idea of we're looking for things that feel real and don't feel manufactured in any way. And so Charvet or I've been thinking a lot about the brand J Press with. They're doing this Alex Milk collaboration. They hired a new creative director. Prior to that it was like Ivy style. They have a store in wherever Yale is. They have a store on the Upper east side. That's it. Like these stores, the place on Nantucket that sells Nantucket reds. There's something about it that like, I just want the thing. I just want the original thing. And that's gonna make me feel like More alive than buying a sort of gussied up version of that thing.

[C]

Like a fashionified version.

[A]

Yeah. What do you think?

[C]

Well, to the point that you're making right now, I. I've been thinking about this and product a lot also. I obviously love things. I mean, they're at, like, the center of what I do. And part of the reason is because the. The, like, collaborative nature of taking someone else's creative idea and interpreting it feels very fulfilling to me. But, you know, as I'm making my own jewelry and stuff now, I keep thinking that, you know, part of the reason I'm so drawn, I think, to find jewelry is because it feels so noisy again. And I think it's a perfect storm for me because I've got a baby who's becoming a toddler at home and two older kids, and every. It just feels so busy. But I'm craving small moments that can last a very long time without my needing to, like, think too much or change too much. And I haven't felt like this in a really long time. It actually feels like antithetical to the way that I dress and the way that I structure my newsletter with, like, 45 unsolicited outfit ideas. But I'm kind of like, just gimme the pants, give me the shirt. Like, and then I'm. I'm gonna. I'm gonna be thoughtful with my jewelry. And this sort of reflects what you're saying, which, because we're. That those are the pants and that is the shirt. But I. It feels like a yearning for more thoughtfulness or that is what it is for me. I don't feel like I'm being as thoughtful as I like to be generally.

[A]

It's clarifying.

[C]

Yeah, clarifying is a great word in.

[A]

This era of so much stimulation. And last week, I had a real situation, or the week before. Oh, my God. It was two weeks ago because I was still in Paris. My phone screen was broken and it turned black. And it was on my way home. So it had been sort of half working. And I was mirroring it on my laptop, and I tried to go to the Apple store. I was like, emergency. They were like, you have to get an appointment. So I just was like, I'm gonna survive it. I'll fix it when I got home. And I did, but by the time I got to the airport, it had turned totally black. So I didn't have my phone for a day.

[C]

How nice was that?

[A]

It was extremely hard for me. I was depressed. I was like, why do I feel bad? I Mean, I felt bad cause I left Paris a day early and was like sad and like I shouldn't have left. And then I regretted it, but I wanted to make sure to get home to my family, all this stuff. But I was also like, I didn't have the dopamine hip of Instagram. And so it was. And also just like the interaction, I'm interacting constantly on there. And so it, it clarified something for me that I need to maybe not be so engaged on. On social media.

[C]

This is also like, this is the difference between a creative and a reporter. Which is not to say that you're.

[A]

Not a creative, but I'm definitely not. It's.

[C]

I've had instances. Well, that's not true because there's creativity. Whatever I have, we can talk about it.

[A]

Yes. Yeah.

[C]

But every time I don't have my phone, which, you know, we, we're just coming off of like a parade of Jewish holidays and we. The high holidays when I don't have my phone or access to my phone for two for 48 hours, for 24 hours. Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur being examples of both. I come out of it feeling so alive and the energy carries me for weeks and then I deplete and then I have to do it again. I have to just like shut it off.

[A]

Yeah. It's.

[C]

It comes back.

[A]

It's interesting because it is about this, like this receival and release of energy. And so I need the energy coming in. I need the information.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And when I know that, it's like a joke. Yes. And sometimes, you know, when I go on vacation, it is always good for work because I come back and I'm like, I have a million ideas.

[C]

Totally.

[A]

But I've never done something where I've not had my phone. And it just was like, it was an interesting moment of why are we seeking clarity and why are we see, why have I made it that I. My rule is that I only go shopping in person in Paris twice a year. Like, I need all these boundaries because there's just so much information coming at us.

[C]

So.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And being on social media necessarily takes you outside of yourself. Yeah. Like, I think that's what it is. I come back from these bouts of time off a phone and I'm like, oh. I'm like in dialogue with my intuition again. Great. I know how I feel. I know who I am. I can make decisions with confidence.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

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[A]

So let's make a couple decisions with confidence and then I'll let you go about who looked good at the Academy Museum Gala. So this I went to the cocktail party on Saturday night. This is for the Academy Museum, the kind of museum for the Oscars. Like they do tons of my friend and I took my friend Amanda and I took our kids to see Singing in the Ra there a couple of weeks ago. It's a really amazing museum. It's connected to LACMA and they do a gala. LACMA is in two weeks. This is now this to me is the start of the sort of Oscars run campaign season. So everybody's very chill and calm because the nominations don't come till January. But like they're the the people who want to be nominated for Oscars are gonna start going out and about. It also happens just a couple weeks after the shows. So there's lots of available dress inventory. A lot of stuff obviously is done custom, but there's just people have a lot of energy. Like the Emmys is sort of the end of the red carpet season. It's in September and it's the end of there's no More dresses left often at the Emmys. So you see, there will be custom, of course, but the designers are busy prepping for their shows. So the Emmys are sort of being in September now. They're kind of like bleh in terms of red carpet. Whereas the Academy museum gala is like the beginning and a fresh start. And it was interesting. There was a ton of stuff from the runways. Tessa Thompson was wearing a really gorgeous dress from Pierre Paolo at Balenciaga. There was tons of Dior. What did you think of what you saw?

[C]

So I'm going through a slideshow now, actually. I have it open on the next tab. And I'm realizing, I think, what makes. Why Danielle Goldberg is such a phenomenal stylist. And it has a lot to do with the quality of girl that she works with. Like, Zoe Kravitz looks amazing in St. Laurent. Greta Leigh also looked awesome.

[A]

She looked awesome.

[C]

I think it's because these are, like, real cool girls, and seeing them dressed for red carpet is. Is like. It's like. It's quite arresting. It's the tension. Do you know what I'm saying? Do you see that?

[A]

Totally. Yes. Yes. I also thought that Emily Rajajkowski is that ice Ratajkowski in. She wore Jean Paul Gaultier Duranlantic, which that collection I had issues with. But she looked incredible in this electric blue dress. And that's also Danielle. We should just go through all of Danielle's girls because they looked really amazing.

[C]

Awesome. Every single one of them. Ayo is wearing Chanel, and she looks awesome. She looks really good.

[A]

She looks so good.

[C]

Did you like Elle Fanning's Balenciaga look?

[A]

No, I did not. I thought it. I'm not a fan of that style. And Louise Trotter did something similar at Bottega that Sarah Paulson wore a couple of weeks ago, which is just like a puffy skirt and a T shirt. It's. I think. I don't think it's right for Elle. Maybe it will have looked cool. Sarah Paulson looked cool in the Louise Trotter look. Maybe it would have looked cooler on. There's definitely something happening. Kristen. Who's Kristen? Wedding bridesmaids. Kristen.

[C]

Kristen Wiig.

[A]

Kristen Wiig wore matthouche Chanel tiered skirt and, like, polo top. There's definitely something happening now with, like, a sweatshirty, relaxed thing and a skirt.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you like the Elle look?

[C]

I liked. I like that look. I don't love it on her.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Actually, the top, I'm not. I don't like the. The big Sleeve generally. I didn't like it when the road did this either. Those oversized T shirts.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's. There's something I'm craving.

[C]

Everything more shrunken lately?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Olivia Rodrigo wore vintage Armani prive and I loved that look. I wasn't.

[A]

She looked amazing.

[C]

The look was really, really chic. Like, I like. I should like to wear that top with like low rise cargo pants.

[A]

As you should. Hopefully that will happen. Happen for you. I loved. I thought Sydney Sweeney looked really good in Armani also. Yeah, I thought that. I loved Kirsten Dunst's Rodarte.

[C]

Me too.

[A]

I was really great.

[C]

She is Rodarte.

[A]

She really is.

[C]

She really represents the brand to me. And she wears it so softly. It's very tender.

[A]

Yes, yes. She's been wearing a lot of Valentino as well. And she wore a couple of weeks ago a black and white polka dot, but also had like white lilies on certain parts of a dress that I dyed and was like, I need this. I need to get this dress. I need. It's. I think it's gonna go on sale soon, so I can see how pro. What the pricing is. But it was. She's just been wearing. I feel like she has great personal style and it really comes out because she's like everyone else. She switched stylists many times, but it's always her. And that I think is just like a testament to her who she is.

[C]

I like this Valentino jacket on Colman Domingo also. It's a gold collarless jacket with those flare leg pants. I think Alessandro Michele is a very cool menswear designer.

[A]

I agree.

[C]

I would like menswear for women.

[A]

It's a good point. And it talks. It speaks again to this idea of like sort of everything overlapping. And I think they only dressed men for this event.

[C]

Looks on. Men also looked. Were really nice. There's a 70s quality about them.

[A]

Yeah, I think this was the best. Jonathan Anderson Dior so far. Red carpet. Greta in particular. But also Mikey Madison looked really great. You can tell she's not a fashion girl. And I think that poses a challenge. There are certain actresses who you can just tell are not into, maybe not even into dressing up, but definitely not into like wearing challenging things. And I thought that they did a good job of like, it was cool and showing off her body in a traditional way. But like the detail, I really, really liked it and thought. I thought, okay, now they're getting the red carpet. Greta. And Greta, I mean, she just killed. I'd say that was probably my favorite of the night is. Greta.

[C]

I don't know if this is sacrilege on a podcast, but my baby's crying and I gotta go get my other daughter from school.

[A]

No, let's go. Leandra. This was so fun. Fun. Great. Great way to exit.

[C]

Thank you so much for having me.

[A]

Thanks for being here. It was great.

[C]

I'll talk to you soon.

[A]

Talk soon.

[C]

Bye.

[A]

Bye.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editor editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey. JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador. Limu Emu and Doug.

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Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

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Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

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Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty. Liberty. Liberty Savings Fairy Underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.