Aaron Levine (3:34)

Hey, thanks, Lauren. Appreciate it.

Lauren Sherman (3:36)

How are you?

Aaron Levine (3:37)

I'm doing great. I'm doing great. I'm out here in your town for a couple of days and I'm glad that we have the opportunity to sit down and talk for a minute.

Lauren Sherman (3:46)

I know it's very exciting. So first question we ask on Friday mornings, what'd you have for breakfast?

Aaron Levine (3:53)

I actually just strolled up the street with my buddy John Teats, who's here. And there's like a spot. It's like we walked up, up to Sunset. I think it's like sunshine, sunspot. I don't know what it is. Sunspots.

Lauren Sherman (4:10)

This place is famous, I think.

Aaron Levine (4:12)

Is it? It's like, okay, cool, I want to go bleed cash for an acai bowl.

Lauren Sherman (4:18)

Oh, yeah.

Aaron Levine (4:19)

But you don't feel bad about doing it? Because I feel pretty good after eating it. So I'm like, okay, trade off.

Lauren Sherman (4:25)

You like acai bowls?

Aaron Levine (4:27)

Call me basic pure sugar.

Lauren Sherman (4:29)

Pure sugar.

Aaron Levine (4:30)

Look, look, look. You're telling me I could do worse. That's all I'm saying.

Lauren Sherman (4:36)

I know you're healthy living. I know you're healthy living.

Aaron Levine (4:38)

No, no, no, no. I'm just saying it's not Captain Crunch, right? So I'm trying. So let's not, let's not berate me for just trying. At least let me have the thin veneer of trying.

Lauren Sherman (4:49)

You know, I've never met this John Teets character. I know the lore of John Teets. And also his wife is real cool, too. A lot of my friends are into his wife and they're like a cool couple and they do a lot of cool stuff. But I would like to meet him someday. He's very under the radar. He doesn't. There's not like a lot of photos of him or he doesn't like self promote a lot. Right.

Aaron Levine (5:11)

He's a ghost and it's great. And he's the best. He's lovely. Great. Just a great dude.

Lauren Sherman (5:18)

Yeah. Yeah. Someone needs to profile. Maybe Jacob should profile him for the Times.

Aaron Levine (5:24)

There you go.

Lauren Sherman (5:25)

He would be very annoyed, I bet. I'm going to tell Jacob to do it.

Aaron Levine (5:28)

Let's put the wheels in motion.

Lauren Sherman (5:31)

Let's do it. So you were at the GQ men of the year party last night. You are a sort of a man of the year.

Aaron Levine (5:36)

This is, this. Next question.

Lauren Sherman (5:40)

How was it? How was it?

Aaron Levine (5:42)

It was. It was lovely.

Lauren Sherman (5:43)

Did you dress up in the cowboy stuff? Because it was like cowboy glamour themed. I had some friends who went. Who were. I was advising on their looks.

Aaron Levine (5:53)

You know, I. As I was getting ready for this. Right. It's like cowboy country kind of thing, right? Like, my mom's from Kerwinsville, Pennsylvania. Right. And my Pat. Pat was country. Right. His kind of country was like, he had an old beat up bronco that was stitched together with, like, metal plates he made. He had a hula dance from the dashboard, a tennis skull, long cut in the cup, you know, like in like a plastic makeshift cup holder. It was like, it's like county fairs, funnel cakes, you know, putting pennies on railroad tracks. Like, it's like genuine country. And it's like if I put myself in a situation where I dress up and my papa was like, yo, what are you wearing right now? I can't wear it. So I just wore one of the suits that we make for the brand, and I wore like a western shirt that we make for the brand. I wanted to pay Will Welch and the team and the. All the effort they put into the theme, but I have to do it in a way that I feel comfortable or else. Yeah, I just feel out of my skin.

Lauren Sherman (6:57)

I think that's right. And I also. Most people at. At that party I won a couple years ago, like, are just looking at the celebrities.

Aaron Levine (7:07)

No one's looking at me. Lauren, it doesn't matter.

Lauren Sherman (7:10)

A couple people are looking at you.

Aaron Levine (7:11)

No, no, no. I'm like, I'm just like, just like creeping around there. You know what I'm saying?

Lauren Sherman (7:17)

Yeah. Very exciting that you had clothes from your own thing to wear.

Aaron Levine (7:24)

It was amazing. Arturo, who's one of my partners, and. And Josh, who's my other partner, like, they made some gear for us and we wore it and it was great. It worked. I felt great in it. So I'm just stoked.

Lauren Sherman (7:37)

Let's rewind for one second. We're going to get into your new brand and no worries how you got to your new brand. But where in Pennsylvania is your mom from?

Aaron Levine (7:46)

My mom is from Kerwinsville, Pennsylvania. It's in Clearfield County.

Lauren Sherman (7:50)

It's like bottom, middle.

Aaron Levine (7:52)

You know, it's funny, people refer to it in like a couple of ways. One is about an hour north of State College, where Penn State is.

Lauren Sherman (7:58)

Yeah. You know, I'm from Pittsburgh.

Aaron Levine (8:00)

Yeah. So my dad's from Pittsburgh. My dad's from the Millville.

Lauren Sherman (8:03)

Yeah. Oh, yeah, right.

Aaron Levine (8:03)

Squirrel Hill, that kind of area.

Lauren Sherman (8:05)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Aaron Levine (8:06)

And my mom is from about an hour north of State College. They call Johnstown Altoona Dubois area, you know.

Lauren Sherman (8:13)

Got it. Yes.

Aaron Levine (8:14)

It's a wild place over there.

Lauren Sherman (8:16)

It's really wild. I mean, first time I ever got drunk was in State College, Pennsylvania.

Aaron Levine (8:21)

How about that? Happy Valley.

Lauren Sherman (8:22)

Yeah. I mean, it was. It just felt like as a 16 year old who was desperate not to get in trouble, it was like, I'll go up to Penn State with my friend's older sister and get completely wrecked.

Aaron Levine (8:34)

I'll drive six hours into the middle of Pennsylvania.

Lauren Sherman (8:37)

We used to just go up for the weekend because I would not drink at home because I was like, I cannot do anything. That could mean I didn't get to leave here when I turn 18. But it felt very safe to get wrecked in State College, Pennsylvania, because, like, literally there's 40,000 people just drunk all the time.

Aaron Levine (8:57)

It just feels like a natural progression.

Lauren Sherman (8:59)

Yes. So it's interesting because on my notes for you, your talking points, I actually wrote, mom, sick ass job. So your mom, you grew up in Virginia though, right?

Aaron Levine (9:11)

Yeah, I grew up in a suburb of D.C. called Annandale, which is like Fairfax Nova, right? Yeah. But my mom, my dad worked for the government and my mom is a calligrapher.

Lauren Sherman (9:25)

Yes.

Aaron Levine (9:25)

Yeah. Yes.

Lauren Sherman (9:27)

Did she do stuff for magazines or something? Like she has.

Aaron Levine (9:31)

So she would do all sorts of stuff. I don't want to do her a disservice and I don't want to, like, give her any improper titles. But I believe at one point she was president of the National Calligraphers Guild. She would go teach classes in, like, Wales in the UK and take classes in Wales and study with like these amazingly talented people. And it was obviously like a very niche community. I remember being, you know, in the 80s, people coming over to our house and us having events because, you know, the National Calligraphers Guild was based in D.C. and I remember there being like this room full of these calligraphers. It reminds me of like, our community. Right. Like, yeah. The way that she would speak. So Highly of these other people who were so talented. And there was, like, they would push each other to be better. And I remember my mom being like, oh, the way Marta does this, or the way Tina does this or the way yay. And does this, it's like, exceptional, you know? And I would look at her and I'm like, my. You're exceptional. You know, like, you're exceptional. And at one point, I remember her having a show in the Smithsonian, and it was, like, a very big deal. I think I was a senior in high school, and I remember, like, how proud I was of her and am of her. She's amazing. I love her. She's. She's incredible. So is my dad.

Lauren Sherman (10:43)

Do you think her interest in design is what pushed you into fashion? And were you interested in fashion growing up?

Aaron Levine (10:53)

Yes. Like, I wouldn't say that. I'm interested in, like, fashion. Right. I'm interested in, like, in clothes. Like, that's what I always liked when I was a kid, you know? And I don't want to, like, sound low brow by saying. By calling it clothing or whatever as opposed to fashion. But, like, if you look at me like, I'm a pretty boring guy, right? Like, I don't, like, wear crazy stuff. I just love.

Lauren Sherman (11:16)

I agree.

Aaron Levine (11:17)

I love stuff, you know? Yeah, right. Snooze.

Lauren Sherman (11:20)

I'm the same way.

Aaron Levine (11:21)

Snooze, you know? But I do. If I said that I didn't truly love it, that would be a lie, because I absolutely love it, but I just love it in, like, my own way. That's. That's not really, like, a fashion way. It's just like, I like. Like I'm a floor worker. Like, I lay a bunch of stuff out on the floor, and I like to look at it together. And I like. It's like, right. Like, I make a comparison to music a lot, right? Because I can't play music, but I wish I could. But when I look at this stuff and I look at it coming together across different classifications, and by that I mean, like, shirts and sweaters and outerwear and trousers and all these things, and I lay them all on the floor in, like, different colors and textures and fabrics and yarns and all these things, the way that it comes together in my brain is like, it's a. It's like I would imagine it would be to write a song, you know? Like, it's just. I get a feeling from it that's so emotional that I don't want to sound, like, cheesy or boring or whatever, but I get this feeling from it that I love and it brings me joy and I understand it's very niche and I understand the things that I see. Other people are like, what are you talking about? But that's kind of just the way that it is, you know?

Lauren Sherman (12:43)

Yeah. Were you good at balancing equations in chemistry class? Because I think I have a theory that a lot of people who think the way you think and understand how to make something look quote, unquote, right. Which you do. And I think it's just a very particular ability to calibrate things or we're good at balancing equations.

Aaron Levine (13:10)

I love this, by the way. I love this question. Right? Because. So I went to school. College. I got into college for an honors. Honors biochemistry program. I tested into it, right.

Lauren Sherman (13:22)

Oh, wow, Interesting.

Aaron Levine (13:24)

Here's the thing. I was terrible at it. Like, if you looked at. Because of the way my brain works, because I'm add. And it's funny because that term is thrown around so frequently and when people are distracted, it's like, oh, I'm add. I'm add. But there are aspects tied to your whole situation when you are at add. It's like you can look at something, you can have a conversation about it, you can understand the process, but it's almost like there's a short circuit in the attention span and connecting the dots when it comes to it. So although I tested into this stuff, if I had to sit through a class for an entire semester and then take an exam on it and then read a book on organic chemistry, I was just like, this is not happening. Right? This is not happening. And I feel like what I think I wanted to be at that point was I wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon because I had some issues with my ankle and I had an interaction with an orthopedic surgeon when I was 15 years old. I was like, oh man, I like people a lot and I like this interaction. And I think if I could just skip right to the hands on component of taking people apart and putting them together like Legos, I think it would be cool. However, the arithmetic to get there was just like, yo, you're done. This is not going to happen.

Lauren Sherman (14:44)

Being interested in clothes in Virginia in the 90s as a teenager, like, because I didn't know any guys who were interested in clothes except for gay guys, to be honest. Like, they weren't out. But like, my friend Brad McElrath who became a designer at Dick's Sporting Goods, definitely was gay when we were in high school, right. But, like, didn't talk about it or whatever. But, like, was that, like, how did your friends know you were into clothes? Like, I guess that there were that crew of guys who were really into, like, Hacky Sack. They were obviously, you know, that you were. I bet you're one of these people, and, like, really into the dead and fish and all that stuff.

Aaron Levine (15:26)

Super into the dead. More dead than fish. And I never really was a Hacky Sack actor.

Lauren Sherman (15:30)

So, you know, that crew. I do know that they were more interested in clothes, but it wasn't. They weren't like, I'm interested in clothes. It was just like, a look. They all were. They were all skateboarders, too. Like.

Aaron Levine (15:42)

Yeah. It's, like, interesting. And, like. Like, okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna assign myself to a tribe by the way that I dress or whatever. Right?

Lauren Sherman (15:49)

Yes.

Aaron Levine (15:49)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (15:50)

Did you have that or. No.

Aaron Levine (15:52)

So that's how it was in high school. Right. It was like. And I see it with my girls now, too. You know, there were different groups of people, but at that time, late 80s, early 90s in Northern Virginia, it was, like, very bro culture, right?

Lauren Sherman (16:12)

Yeah.

Aaron Levine (16:13)

Yeah. So it was like, bridges, great outdoors, county seat, Levi's, Silvertab. You know, these were the stores. And then Fairfax Surf Shop.

Lauren Sherman (16:23)

Yeah.

Aaron Levine (16:24)

And then I would always love shopping at, like, Army Navy stores. And then I would actually look at, like, vintage stores. You just had to, like, look for it. And then I liked combining all of it together. That created a certain thing.

Lauren Sherman (16:37)

Yeah.

Aaron Levine (16:37)

And I would put it together differently, but I would wear kind of the same stuff. And I maybe experiment, like, a little bit more than, like, my friends did. But, yeah, they always knew, and I always got made fun of for it, and I came in second for best dressed. And in high school.

Lauren Sherman (16:53)

Wow. Yeah, I. I was very upset I didn't get best dressed, but I just didn't think. I don't think they got it. Like, I was buying stuff from the J. Crew catalog, which was, like, very exotic in Pittsburgh.

Aaron Levine (17:07)

Totally.

Lauren Sherman (17:07)

There wasn't a J. Crew when I was growing up. There is one there now, but there wasn't when I was growing up. And, like, remember I got tweed cargo pants.

Aaron Levine (17:15)

Yes. Very advanced.

Lauren Sherman (17:17)

Very advanced. That I wore with New Balance sneakers and a red sweater.

Aaron Levine (17:22)

I mean, I'm like, still. I'm like, yes. Sign me up into it right now.

Lauren Sherman (17:25)

It's so good. And then it's like, brown tweed cargoes. And I remember someone being like, you look like you're in college.

Aaron Levine (17:33)

Score. You know? But here's the thing. Too Right. Is like, I also, again, like, I always relate it back to music because, like, I'm always listening to music, and I'm always, like, listen to all different kinds of music, and it's like, okay, cool. Do you like pop music where you hear the song and you immediately like it, but then I think you naturally move away from it more quickly because you're just, like, pounded by it, and then it becomes, like, very old, and you're like, I can never listen to it again. Or do you like music where it's like, oh, I'm not sure how I feel about that song at first. And then you listen to it again. You're like, oh, I like a little bit more. And then maybe you, like, read the lyrics and then you, like, hear a live version and it's a little more nuanced. And then you become to, like, really love that song. And then it has holding and lasting power. Like, that's kind of how I look at it. It's like, I'd rather be, like, a little more weird but, like, thoughtful than just write pop music. I don't know. Yeah, that's off talk. That's random. Sorry.

Lauren Sherman (18:37)

Well, I mean, it kind of is. You like stuff that's like, quote unquote normal, but it's very specific how you. This is like, my friend who's always like, you. Like, she's always telling me I like indie stuff, but I'm like, actually, I just, like, I'm a basic bitch who likes indie stuff. Like, I like basic indie stuff. It's not like, there's. But you're very specific. So it's not like. Like the way Jacob described your collection. Like, on the face of it, it's like a collection of clothes, but, like, it's the details that matter.

Aaron Levine (19:13)

Totally.

Lauren Sherman (19:14)

So let's do your big career. Cause I want to talk and thank you.

Aaron Levine (19:18)

And then I want to thank Jacob again for that piece of that.

Lauren Sherman (19:20)

Jacob, that piece was awesome.

Aaron Levine (19:22)

Yeah, it was very sweet of him.

Lauren Sherman (19:23)

I'm so glad Jacob has this job because he couldn't have written that piece at the Wall Street Journal.

Aaron Levine (19:28)

It was very sweet of him. I'm very grateful for Jacob. Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (19:31)

Yeah. Let me do my armchair media criticism them really quickly.

Aaron Levine (19:34)

But, like, I'm taking no part in the criticism.

Lauren Sherman (19:37)

Yeah, he would be very annoyed if I. He's going to be, like, annoyed that I'm saying this, but I just think, like, that's a story that he couldn't have done at the Journal, and he had an amazing job there, and he Did a good job, but, like, this is why he is great at this new job, and I'm very proud of him.

Aaron Levine (19:53)

Way to go.

Lauren Sherman (19:54)

The story was awesome, and it was. It was really well done. So out of school, and everyone should read it. And we're not going to do a huge bio of Aaron because you can just read it in Jacob's piece. But out of school, you got a job in sales at one of those, like, preppy, like Paul Stewart or something, right?

Aaron Levine (20:12)

It was. It was Joseph Abood, right? I had. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So not preppy, just kind of like there. And, you know, I was, like, in that position where I was, like, sitting in Blacksburg. I had sent out, like, 60 resumes, and I got one back on, like, yellow card stock from Calvin Klein that was like, thank you for submitting your resume. And it's been filed. And I'm like, cool, right? And I don't want to. I want to make this quick because I don't want to bore you or anybody, but, like, I got to give a shout out to my mom, too, right? She was on a business trip with my dad, and she was sitting next to a woman, and they started talking and. And it was like, oh, you know, my son, you know, went tva. And she's like, oh, my son went to Virginia Tech. And what is your son doing? He's like, oh, he's. She's like, oh, he's a retail planner for Joseph Abood. And my mom was like, give me his email address right now so I could give it to my kid, you know? And, like, because of that, I sent an email to this guy, Tom Hassell, right? And he sent me an email back and he got me an interview. And I remember I interviewed for a wholesale sales assistant position three times. I had to go back to this interview, drive to Fredericksburg from Virginia Tech, take a train from Fredericksburg to New York and interview with the vice president of sales and HR and, like, go through the whole process. And I finally got the job for, you know, it was like $28,000 a year or something, right? But that was my foot in the door. And I'm grateful for Tom. I'm grateful for my mom, always fighting for me. Shout out Linda Levine.

Lauren Sherman (21:45)

Awesome. Linda. We love you.

Aaron Levine (21:47)

We love you. We love you. We love.

Lauren Sherman (21:49)

Arnie's so great.

Aaron Levine (21:50)

They both are. They're both amazing. They're rocks.

Lauren Sherman (21:53)

So great.

Aaron Levine (21:54)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (21:54)

So good.

Aaron Levine (21:55)

So that's. That was the start, was with that. Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (21:58)

And then you moved pretty quickly into design, right? Like, and then you Worked at a bunch of places, and most famously, to start Club Monica. Where you were a part of the hashtag menswear movement.

Aaron Levine (22:12)

Yeah, Yeah. I would, like. I think that kind. The roots of that kind of started at Hickey Freeman, you know, like that. You know, and then from there went to Rogues Gallery, and then Jack Spade, and then from there, that's when I was approached by club, and that was my first vice president job. I think I was 33, and, man, that was. At that point I realized that I knew absolutely nothing, and I needed to, like, figure it out.

Lauren Sherman (22:44)

And were they owned by Ralph Lauren when you started?

Aaron Levine (22:47)

They were. They were, yep. And then that's where I got to meet Caroline Bellhumer, who became one of the most important mentors I've ever had in this job. I wouldn't have made it through club without her. She. Yeah, she's awesome. And then that's where, like, I was like, okay, cool. I have my priorities wrong. I need to understand accountability on a whole different level. Right. Like, I need to understand accountability not to, like, my ideas and, like, what I think is right. But it was like, okay, cool. Here's what having a point of view looks like. Here's what service leadership looks like. Here's what accountability to the people on your team looks like. Here's what accountability to the people in the rest of the office looks like. Here's what it looks like to people working in the stores. Here's what it looks like to people working and making your samples. Here's what it looks like to, like, everybody across the board, how to pay the proper respect across the board and, like, truly understand what it looked like to be something. Be involved in something that's like, okay, cool. You're one small piece in this thing, and you're all working together to try to accomplish a goal.

Lauren Sherman (24:01)

Yeah. And blah, blah. And what did you feel like you all accomplished there? Because it was. It was a real moment for. For a moment, like the. You did make. You did make an impact.

Aaron Levine (24:17)

Thank you. You know, like, I think that, look, we. We went in and. And on the men's side, when I started there, I was looking at what Caroline was doing and, like, how she was pushing, and I'm like, okay, I see this happening culturally in men's, and I think we need to go after it. Right. And then I would talk with her a lot. I'd be like. I would talk with Stephen Cataran a lot, who's over at madewell now, who's amazing guy. And I would be like, okay, let's understand what this looks like if we really evolve this thing, and let's do it quickly. And it was awesome. And, man, it was like this. It's like the same kind of thing that you hear other people talk about in different professions and careers creatively, where you're, like. When you're in it, it is a tumultuous sea. Right. It's wild, and you're stressed and you're having nervous breakdowns and you're freaking out, but, like, things are being made and progressing, and you're building stores and you're shooting cool campaigns, and you're. And you're thinking about new ways to ideate creatively, and you're broadening your horizons, like, across the board. So it's like. It's like an amazingly stressful but also explosively inspirational time when you're doing that stuff, you know? And that's. That's what it was like. It was awesome. Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (25:40)

What was it like to be a part of that crew of guys that sort of. Obviously. Michael Williams, our mutual friend. Your very good friend. The best. I used to interview Michael and Tyler Thoresen and all those guys for articles about menswear in 2009 or whatever. They're all very sweet.

Aaron Levine (25:59)

Yes, they are.

Lauren Sherman (25:59)

But, like, there was, like, a real. And Lawrence, and there were blogs, there was Tumblr. It was a real movement of men dressing up and being interested in fashion and the J. Crew liquor store and what you were doing at Club Monaco and all of it sort of combined, and you were a big part of that. Is that when you first started, like, getting your photograph taken and, like, becoming a little bit more of a public figure? What did you think about all of that? That whole thing?

Aaron Levine (26:28)

The way that I thought about it was like, oh, wow. Like, it took a lot of discomfort and, like, not being great in school and being lost and not knowing what a career looked like. Like, I was. I was, like, scrambling. Like, all my friends from college were, like, doing all sorts of different things, and I'm like, maybe I should do what they're doing. Maybe I should do what they're doing. But I'm like, I would be absolutely trash at that. And to, like, be rewarded by, like, these amazing friendships from all these people that I got to meet and hang out with. By stepping out of your comfort zone and moving to New York and, like, trying to put yourself in the place where you are surrounded by, like, minds that people are, like, interested in the same stuff as you are. So it was just, like, putting it's like, you have to forcibly put yourself into positions where you are surrounded by people where, okay, cool, we're onto the same thing, but we're into it in, like, different ways. And that's totally great. And we can debate about it, we can banter about it, we can have a laugh about it, we can share a beer and, like, talk about it and, like, also talk about all other sorts of stuff or, you know, so it was just a group of friends is what it was. And. And I don't mean to be sound cheesy or. Or whatever about this, but, like, the people that I. I had the opportunity of hanging out with, it's like we just wanted the best for one another, you know, like, we would get together and you just, like, hash out. You would share challenges and, like, you know, stresses and things that were exciting and things that you were working on. And it was never. It's not like the. Our group was never about, like, out cooling anybody or like, oh, where I'm doing this or I'm doing that. Like, that was like a turn off. Right. It was just about, like, trying to make stuff, you know, and whether that was like, Michael with writing, which he was. He's incredible at. And he's incredible at connecting people and incredible at, like, helping brands become better versions of themselves.

Lauren Sherman (28:20)

Yeah.

Aaron Levine (28:20)

You know, like, Randy Goldberg, who's just a wonderful person, and Coggins and Lawrence and, like, all these people. I just think it was just like. And it was like young people to older people. So it was almost like being in a version of college. Right. Where you're, like, looking up to the people that have come before you, and you're like, man, striving to be as good as they were. And then, like, the younger people are coming up and you're just like, cool. It's my responsibility now to, like, help them. If they call me and they want to have a cup of coffee. Right. Then you do. It's funny now, though, Lauren, because, like, I do have, like, a lot of people, like, just, like, hitting me up randomly on Instagram. That. That's like, hey, if you'd have, you know, do you have a couple. You, you know, do you want to go get a coffee? And I'd like to learn tactically how I operate in my career trajectory to get me from here. And I'm like, yeah, I just. Yeah, bro, I just don't have time to do that. I don't have the mental bandwidth. Even though you want to, but you're just like, I just don't have the capability to do that anymore, you know?

Lauren Sherman (29:19)

Yeah, I. I get a lot of people who want to be me to be interviewed for their, like, MBA reports. Are there, like, their bfa, if they're. If they're doing some sort of thesis. And a lot of times they're like, here are questions. Can you respond? And I often just don't. Yeah, you just don't have time. It's interesting. I remember emailing people when I was young who were in their 40s, being like, can you meet with me for coffee? And almost never responded. And now I understand why. It's like, when you have kids and you have.

Aaron Levine (29:59)

Yeah, I was just going to say.

Lauren Sherman (30:01)

That, Aaron, you in particular, you have, like, five jobs. Like, there are. There's just a lot going on. I just don't have time to even do a call sometimes. Sometimes I'll be like, call me. I can talk for 20 minutes when I'm in the car or whatever, but usually I forget to respond. And it. It's. It's really hard.

Aaron Levine (30:19)

It's hard because you. You don't want to be disrespectful. Right. Like, you want to understand, like, the people that helped you when you were coming up, and you want to pay that back. But it's also, like, cool. You have five jobs, two kids, two flat tires on two different cars that you gotta fix at any given time. A dog, two cats, you know, paint falling off the garage. So it's like, there's like, life admin. There is trying to be a good dad, which I would debate. I'm sometimes am and sometimes not. Right. And like, you're just trying to keep things together.

Lauren Sherman (30:53)

Yeah.

Aaron Levine (30:53)

And, like, flowing and constructive. But also it's like, yeah, I might have an hour in that day that's quiet, but I also might need to take that hour and sit on the sofa and just stare at a wall for just a minute and, like, recharge the battery. Because it's like, you know, like, when I get to sit down and have the opportunity to talk to you at something like this, like, I'm stoked. I love having these discussions.

Lauren Sherman (31:19)

Yeah.

Aaron Levine (31:20)

But then it's like, cool, my battery depletes. And then it's like, I need to just sit for a minute.

Lauren Sherman (31:25)

Well, you know, it's this whole idea of, like, whether during the pandemic, I was like, oh, I think I'm an introvert because I realized I was so exhausted by interacting with people. And when the pandemic happened, I didn't have to anymore. I felt so Much better now. I just kind of don't believe in an introvert extrovert. Because right now like the last two, two years having this job and like just living in LA where I'm a little more isolated, I want to be out in the world, I want to go to stuff, I want to talk to people. I'm much more excited about that. But then you. One thing I realized is like every time I go to New York now, I haven't been to a gallery in forever. Like our really good friend Jake had a show at, I forget which one, but like one of the really important galleries in Chelsea. And Dan, my husband, got to go and like I didn't get to go because I was so busy going to all this shit. And so like I need you. You forget. And especially your schedule because you're traveling so much and we should get into why, but you forget to like I need to read books. I never read books anymore.

Aaron Levine (32:40)

And just like, I mean I just plug into audible. That's where I'm at on my, that's where I'm at.

Lauren Sherman (32:44)

I started doing that too. I started doing that.

Aaron Levine (32:46)

And I understand that's like a dirty word for you know, like dedicated readers, you know, but like I, I, I love it. It keeps me calm. I just plug in a book and I'm just like, I love that. But I like to your point about the introvert extrovert thing, nothing is binary, right? Like yeah, as with everything in this world, it's like when you try to throw a label on it, like I'm this or I'm that. Well, sometimes you're not. Right? Like sometimes I want to go do this. And then you're like, cool, I'm good for four days. Cool, I'm good for four weeks depending on like what it was, you know, And I just think that constantly, like testing the fence and seeing like, and being curious about yourself and seeing like what you're into, what you're not into and just being like open minded. I just don't think it's like a, oh, I'm in. Because like some days, some weeks I am a recluse introvert.

Lauren Sherman (33:35)

Yeah.

Aaron Levine (33:35)

You know, and then I'll go to New York and I'll be like, oh, well, I'm here. I want to see this friend for dinner and then I want to see that friend for dinner. And then I'm like going into the studio and I'm like working with this amazing team all day and then I'm like going to this office and working with that team for a while and it's like it just. And that can become like a lot. And by like day four, I'm like, time to return to the woods.

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Lauren Sherman (35:31)

So how did you get from Club Monaco to where you are now? You took a big break in New Albany, Ohio. Or I guess break isn't the right word. But you were at Abercrombie and Fitch for a long time, right? Like how many years? Like seven years or something?

Aaron Levine (35:50)

Over six years. I was there. I went there in 2015 and stopped being there in 2021. So, you know, club was amazing experience, but it was also a very challenging work environment. Right. And I lived in New York for 15 years or so and I was like, I would like to try to do this someplace that's not New York. I think it's like whenever you grow up someplace, like I grew up in Virginia. And I'm like, I would never move back to Virginia. And then you go away for, you know, a decade and a half, and you're like, oh, maybe I long for some of that chill aspect.

Lauren Sherman (36:27)

Yeah.

Aaron Levine (36:28)

So that's. That's what I was like. And then I was thinking. I was like, before the Abercrombie thing even materialized, I was like, I'm like, what big puzzles are out there, right? Of, like, what big global vertical retail brands are out there that have the opportunity to be explosive again? In my head, I was like, I mean, Abercrombie can't. Can't really get in a more challenging position than it is right now. I'm like, that would be cool to try to tackle that. And then my merchant partner at Club I was in Paris for Premier Vision or something like that, looking at fabrics, and I get a call from him, and he's like, I resigned today. And I was like, you dog. Because he was my partner in crime. And I was like, where are you going? Because in my head, it could have been one or two places. And I was like. I was like, you're going to Abercrombie, aren't you? And he's like, I am. And I'm like, cool. And then a couple months after that, I was like, you want some help? He's like, when can you start? And I was like, now?

Lauren Sherman (37:36)

Yeah.

Aaron Levine (37:37)

And then that's how it, like, happened, you know?

Lauren Sherman (37:39)

What was it like there? Like, what did you. Obviously, I know that you like living where you are, and it sounds like your family has enjoyed it, too, but, like, what.

Aaron Levine (37:53)

What was shocking. Yeah, shocking. It was shocking when I. So I'd never been to Ohio before I visited for the job, you know, even though, like, my family's from, like, Central, you know, Central PA in Pittsburgh, so it's not like I'm, you know, it's alien to me.

Lauren Sherman (38:15)

No, but it is more farm country than. Well, I guess Central PA is, too, but it's a different kind of farm country. That's for sure.

Aaron Levine (38:24)

But after being in New York for, you know, that 15 years and working in New York fashion, right? And, like, for New York brands, stepping onto that campus and, like, seeing how Columbus, Ohio, retail operates versus New York retail, very, very different. And stepping onto that campus, I was like, it in 2015, May or whatever of 2015, I was like, I feel like I just stepped into a time machine, you know, 15 years ago, and I'm like. It felt like I'm like, I don't understand what aspect of culture this brand is trying to tap into right now. You know what I'm saying? Does that make sense? I was like, I don't know who this brand is talking to. And that was when we started to tackle it. And I showed up about four, four months after Mike Jeffries had left, so I never had the opportunity to work with him. And it was like primordial ooze, man. It was like people fighting for, like, grappling for control and like, trying to understand who was going to run this thing and how that was going to shake out from an org structure and, like, how to set the direction and the vision and how to get everyone aligned. It was a complex equation.

Lauren Sherman (39:45)

At some point, you took over women's too, right?

Aaron Levine (39:48)

Yes.

Lauren Sherman (39:48)

You started doing men's and then you took women's too.

Aaron Levine (39:51)

Yes. And that was awesome. And I think it was just being at the right place at the right time. And I was super passionate about it. And it's like, look, I think a lot of these big jobs, it's not like I knew, oh, how to design, like a perfect dress or anything like that, but I'm like, when you're so passionate and you're so curious, like, you start to, like, flip over stones and you start to just, like, understand what people are as crazy passionate about it as you are. And then you can have, like, dialogue with them and make sure that they're in the right positions and try to remove obstacles for them to accomplish what they're passionate about. Right. And like, that's, that's what we did with women's. It was just like, we tried to put the right people in the right place, support them, have that debate with them, have those dialogue, have that dialogue with them and, like, be curious about product and, like, be super kind of like, yo, what do we really mess with here? Like, what do we think is cool? And I know that that sounds like a flippant thing to say because you can't apply data to the term cool. Right. And you're dealing with a company that's multi billion dollar company. It's very hard to just be like, well, I like it because it's cool. Well, that doesn't really, like, get people to sign up and put huge buys behind something. Right. So it's like you have to, like, structurally organize these things. But yeah, that's. Yes, I took over women. Sorry, long answer, short question.

Lauren Sherman (41:24)

No, no, no. So you were there for six and a half years. You famously got fired, which, like, is an interesting thing.

Aaron Levine (41:32)

Yep.

Lauren Sherman (41:33)

But this is the thing about you. You're all about vulnerability. You're one of these, like, vulnerable men, and you've been, like, very clear and open about it. Look, this is my analysis of the situation. You don't have to say anything. It wouldn't be what it is right now, which is very successful, trend driven, basically a new kind of fast fashion if you hadn't done what you did because you were a palate cleanser. And that's like a term that's happening in the industry a lot right now. I think what you did was really, really good and wasn't. Perhaps not enough people knew about what you were doing. From my perspective, like you, it was so good. And they're like, every man in America, everyone in America should have been buying it. And for some reason, they didn't all know about it. But, like, when you ended up leaving, like, A, what did you feel like you accomplished there? And B, when you started consulting and doing all this stuff and. And now you're launching your own brand. Like, what did you learn there that you're applying to what you do now?

Aaron Levine (42:38)

Right? So I think there. I think what I could contribute to that was a catalyst, like just being a catalyst for change, right? Was like, shake the cage. And I wasn't there to just, like, agree and say yes and okay, it's easy to say yes and we build a deck and then we move on. It was like I was there to. To say what I thought, right? And, like, what my true opinion was. And I had a point of view. And I fought every single day for the six and a half years or whatever. I was there. I was not complacent with, okay. I was not okay with good enough being good enough. I wanted to be truly, like, great at that job, you know, And I wanted to make a difference. And, like, I can truly say that the day that I started, from the day that I started to the day that I left, it was an entirely different company. And there were many, many, many people there that were involved in that change. And I got to be one of them, you know? And then when I got fired over video on the day of my review, for no other reason than the. The explanation was my role was being eliminated, which is true. Which is true. My role was, in fact, eliminated and myself completely. Like, I was eliminated completely. But, you know, and I was hurt because I was like, I put a lot of effort into that every single day. And then I was shook, right? And then it was funny because I got a call from Mickey Drexler, right?

Lauren Sherman (44:14)

Do I have a call within 10 minutes. So we have.

John Teets (44:17)

We'll have.

Aaron Levine (44:18)

Oh, my God. Bummer. Bummer. We have to wrap up. We'll tell Mickey I say, what's up? But I got a call from him, and he said. I don't even know if he'll remember he said this to me, but. Or not. But, like, he was.

Lauren Sherman (44:27)

Oh, he'll remember.

Aaron Levine (44:28)

He was like, look, kid, he was like, no one escapes the gut punch, you know, he was like, I still feel the gut punch that I got from the Gap when I was there.

Lauren Sherman (44:37)

You know, Steve Jobs called him the day before to tell him, there you go.

Aaron Levine (44:42)

So. And I'm like. To get that call from him. Yeah, it was, like, cool. It's like a badge of honor at this point. And I think that, like, being vulnerable to it, or it's not even being vulnerable, it's just being honest about it and being transparent with it gives takes away the negative aspect of it, and it gives you power. It's like, I have that badge on me that. Yeah, man, I was there for six and a half years. If I sucked at my job, I would have been gone in a year and a half. I would have been gone in two years. You know, but, like, I contributed to the value of that thing, which is, you know, you get satisfaction from that. So it shook me for a couple. It shook me. I still think about it, and I'm still hurt by it, but, like, after being a weirdo for a couple months and trying to, like, you know, shake it off, I just started working with a bunch of friends with, you know, on a bunch of different projects that I believed in. I believed in the product or I believed in the person, or I wanted to work with the people that I loved on product that I loved. I didn't want to be at one specific company for that time period. And I just enjoyed being collaborative with amazing people. Working in New York, working in la. We worked in Bologna for a little bit. We were just like, you know, it was very freeing to, like, apply. You know, I would say that club was like master's degree, and I would say that Abercrombie was a doctorate. What I learned there in terms of how to run a business, right. How to run a business and then. And then how to push newness and, like, be stoked about product and then how to learn whether or not people are going to be into that product or not.

Lauren Sherman (46:16)

Yeah. So you did a bunch of consulting. You did styling, you did design consulting. Club Monaco on my lion door. Like, all these different places, you'd done some stuff for madewell. You became like also during the pandemic, like a real Instagram personal person. You post a lot. I feel like you just like become a bigger part of culture yourself. You were always making clothes that were in the culture, but you became a bigger part. And now you're launching this brand, which I believe is, will be live by the time this airs, which it will be October 29th, maybe.

Aaron Levine (46:54)

Yeah, I think we're, we're, we're going to launch it on the 22nd and then look, look, it's going to be. Is it perfect? Nope. But we're looking at progress, right? We're going to, we're going to launch what we have when we launch and then we're going to roll it out throughout that week. We're going to learn about it. We are just going to be thoughtful and slow and steady and we are not going to get distracted by the noise. You know, I think when a lot of chatter happens around something, all of a sudden there's just this cacophony of noise that comes with it that you just need to block out. And it's like we keep our circle small. We focus on what we want to, like, deem our priorities. And we're just going to go from there and we're going to learn about it, figure it out.

John Teets (47:35)

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Lauren Sherman (48:33)

So being in this business for so long, you've mostly worked for more mass market brands. Mass market's probably not the right word, but you know what I mean. Like big.

Aaron Levine (48:44)

I mean, I've worked for publicly traded companies for 20 years.

Lauren Sherman (48:46)

Yes, exactly. So you know how this industry works. I remember you and I and My husband had dinner with Scott Sternberg, who was, like, closing down entire world as you were leaving Abercrombie. And I was just like, you guys should meet because you come from different worlds. But you decided. It's like, Scott. Scott's a serial entrepreneur. Who knows what he'll do, but he'll never stop. But the point being, like, you've seen how hard it is to launch a brand. So, like, A, why did you decide to do this to yourself? And B, like, what is it gonna be? Like, what are. Tell. Tell me about the price point. Some of the first pieces that are gonna come out that you're really excited about.

Aaron Levine (49:28)

Sure. In my head, I was like, I'm never doing anything on my own. I'm not doing it. So when I was thinking about. I was thinking about it, like, a little more earnestly. I was like, the way. The only way that I would do this is if I had a supply chain partner, right? And then talking about Michael Williams. Michael Williams introduced me to a young guy named Josh York, based in Detroit, who is now one of my partners. The other partner being Arturo Castaneda, who's in Brooklyn. They both own small factories, right? Josh has the ability to make cut and sew product in Detroit. Arturo is. And Josh is brilliant. He's brilliant from an operational standpoint, logistics standpoint, financial standpoint. He is an organizational mastermind, and he's one of the hardest working people I've ever met. And he's honest and genuine and true. I love Josh. I trust him. I stay with him and his wife and their baby. I sleep in their basement when I go to Detroit. Right? Arturo has a facility, a studio, an atelier in Brooklyn where he has the ability to make. He made all of our patterns for wovens, all of our trouser patterns, all of our woven shirt patterns, all of our outerwear patterns. He made a bespoke suit for Sam for the event last night. For me, for John Teeds, like, they can make bespoke through all these amazing, beautiful patterns that are proportionally perfect. And then he has the ability to grade them, and then he has the ability to make small units. So, like, our plan is, okay, cool. Like, I'm not trying to be, like, a huge business, like, out of the gate. Like, we're like, okay, cool. We'll start small. The three of us own it. We'll make small units. We'll start to understand our customer, and then what works, what they like, what they hate, why they like it, why they hate it. We'll make a little bit more of the stuff that they like. We'll take this to stuff that they hate, and we'll put it on a shelf and we'll be like, maybe this is the wrong time for that. Maybe not yet. We'll keep a little bit of the line open to us to constantly push for, like, newness and interesting stuff that we think is interesting and see if it resonates with people. We'll try to be culturally relevant and we'll try to make product that we love, man. And, like, I don't think this is, like, an ego play where it's like, oh, I want to be cool, and I want to have this huge business, and I want. It's like, this is literally. And I'm going to relate it to music again. And I know that I don't want that to start to get, like, boring and, like, hammering on it, but I'm like, I have to do this, Lauren. Right? Like, I love this. I have to do it. I'm about it. It's my hobby, which is potentially sad, but true, and I just need to constantly be doing it. That's why I work with a bunch of different people, because I just love it. I love talking about it. I love making it. I love working with people that make it. I like sitting down with people in factories. I like sitting down with design teams. I like sitting down with merch teams to figure out the process. I like the whole puzzle of it. And I don't want to do anything else, but I also want to do something that's pure and true to what we believe in. And I don't want to have to ask for permission to do it. I just want to make it and see if it resonates with people.

Lauren Sherman (52:25)

I'm excited for you.

Aaron Levine (52:26)

I know we're asking. I know we're going to take our licks, Lauren. I know we're going to take our licks, but we're going to do it anyway.

Lauren Sherman (52:33)

Yeah, it's going to be hard. And you're going to be like, why did I do this to myself every day? 100%. You know what I can't wait for? For you to start to see, like, regular guys wearing it. And not totally. Not just Sam Hein, who is great, but is a model and also, you know, totally a GQ guy. So, like, it'll be. It's gonna be awesome for you. And I get it. Like, you just have to do it. You just have to do it. Yeah. It's like, why do people open restaurants? Because they just. It's stupid. But like, everything that you want to.

Aaron Levine (53:07)

Make stuff, it's exciting and like you have a dream. Right. And it's terrifying. And to step out and do something unterrifying, it's so easy to be like, that's dumb. Why would you do that? Because some people have to do that. That's the. Like, you just have to do it or else you'll feel unfulfilled.

Lauren Sherman (53:25)

Totally. Aaron, I'm so excited for you. Can you come back on in like a year or six months and let me know how it's going?

Aaron Levine (53:35)

Absolutely. We'll give you progress reports. Good, the bad, the ugly. We'll be transparent about the entire process.

Lauren Sherman (53:41)

I can't wait. I'm definitely excited to see the plaid shirt. I think you were wearing it when I saw you a couple weeks ago.

Aaron Levine (53:49)

I definitely was wearing it. I was wearing that.

Lauren Sherman (53:51)

I like it a lot.

Aaron Levine (53:52)

It's really good. Like, the stuff is good.

Lauren Sherman (53:54)

Yeah, it's really good. The question for that, what is that plaid? It's like a faded plaid.

Aaron Levine (54:00)

Yep.

Lauren Sherman (54:01)

Is there like a name for that kind of plaid or.

Aaron Levine (54:03)

No, I mean, I just call it like, people call it either shadow plaid or an ombre plaid, something like that.

Lauren Sherman (54:08)

Shadow plaid.

Aaron Levine (54:10)

Yeah. But what I like about that shirt is like, okay, cool. It's soft. It's a super lightweight flannel. You can wear it in the winter over a T shirt under a jacket. Keeps you cozy. But like, I also wear those in the summer. And I don't know if this sounds psycho, but like, I don't wear a shirt under it in the summer and I wear it with swim trunks and it feels like great against sunburned skin. So it's like, there's a thoughtful reason for like the whole process of these things. And it's like, you don't. This is coming from a person that has, like a ton of stuff. I'm a hoarder and a self loathing hoarder. Self loathing stuff. Lover. But it's like, you really don't need a lot of stuff. You just need nice stuff or maybe sometimes not nice stuff, depending on who you are. And you just can wear it and wear it and wear it and wear it. And the more that you wear it, the more it becomes you and you look comfortable in it. And the more you feel comfortable in it, the more your personal, like, strength comes out. Right. When you feel comfortable, if you put on clothes as like a costume, it shows. It smells. I can smell it right when you were just like, you're just who you are and that comes through. That's genuine and true and like, that's what it's all about.

Lauren Sherman (55:13)

Aaron, congrats. I'm so excited for you. You're the best.

Aaron Levine (55:16)

And congrats to you for this, like, whole. For the. Your whole venture that you're doing. Like, I'm stoked to be here. Thank you. And grateful to be here. I appreciate you.

Lauren Sherman (55:23)

Happy to have you. And I'm sure we'll talk soon. Get some rest. Look forward to. Good luck.

Aaron Levine (55:32)

Say hi to Mickey Foreman.

Lauren Sherman (55:33)

I will. I. I can't be late for this. Bye.

Aaron Levine (55:36)

Bye.

Lauren Sherman (55:37)

Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck, hosted by Lauren Sherman. That's me. Our executive producers are John Kelly, co founder of Puck. Ben Landy, executive editor of Puck. Gabby Gross, director of editorial operations at Puck and Bob Tabador, executive producer at Odyssey. Edited, mixed and mastered by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, including J.D. crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman, Maddy Sprung Keyser, Josefina Francis, Hilary Schuppf and Kurt Courtney. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roaz man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day.

John Teets (56:27)

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Aaron Levine (56:29)

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John Teets (56:31)

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Aaron Levine (56:34)

Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn.

John Teets (56:41)

The place to be to be.