Lauren Sherman (3:18)

Hanover-Usa.Com all made in the USA and under 300 bucks stuff. So check that out before our our chat on Monday. The New York Times did not link to it. New York Times. I know a lot of you. Listen, you need to start linking out to people. This is just cruel. Anyway, if you want to know more about Chanel and Versace and all that stuff, you can read my original reporting with interesting stuff you can't get anywhere else. Over at Line Sheet, I'll be in New York until Sunday. I'm going to the Interview mag and the Hanover parties tonight. And then I'm going to Marissa Meltzer's highly anticipated holiday party tomorrow night. Please do not try to crash it. But I also know that she'll love the mention because she is like that. I should have had her on Monday. But obviously we need to talk about Chris's brand. So let's get going with Daphne. I really thought this conversation was great. And you know, I don't like talking about anything that is good for the earth. This time it was really worth it. She's really special.

Lauren Sherman (4:22)

Daphne Sebold, welcome to Fashion People.

Daphne Sebold (4:25)

Lauren, it's such an absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Lauren Sherman (4:29)

It's been a long day for you. You flew from London. What did you have for breakfast this morning?

Daphne Sebold (4:35)

Oh, gosh, it was early. I had like half of a croissant and then I sort of dipped it in. I brought a little bit of our new honey with me to London because I just. Honey is my constant now. So I just had a little bit of a baguette or croissant with. With. With a little bit of that. And usually I would have it with like granola and yogurt, but, you know, at 7:00am I was sort of in short supply of anything good. So you look.

Lauren Sherman (5:02)

I have to say, you look so fresh right now.

Daphne Sebold (5:05)

Oh, my God. Yeah. Fresh off the plane. Thank you.

Lauren Sherman (5:07)

You look amazing. Your. Your makeup looks so good.

Daphne Sebold (5:11)

Thank you. I mean, I did spackle for you, which at my age is necessary.

Lauren Sherman (5:16)

Thank you. You look gorgeous. So what were you doing in London? And tell us a little bit about who you are. Yeah, right now we'll get into who you used to be, but who you are right now.

Daphne Sebold (5:28)

Yeah. So I am the CEO of Sky Farm Goods. It's a brand that we basically started to generate advocacy and revenue for the work of nonprofit Sky High Farm, which is all dedicated to food equity work. And we do a lot of sort of collaborative projects. You know, we're in fashion, food, beauty. And one of our sort of marquee projects right now is with on running or on the Swiss brand. And they very sort of generously have done a multi year deal with us in which we get to partner with them on, you know, amazing products. And London was sort of the last stop on a whistle stop tour for the first season's launch. So we did a really sort of beautiful book launch with Ryan McGinley over there. So that was yesterday at like 7 o' clock at night and here I am today back in New York.

Lauren Sherman (6:21)

It's amazing. That sounds so fun and I love when we're going to rewind and kind of go through your career. But one of the things that's so great about the Sky High farm products is the illustrations and the little fruit and it's become already just like so recognizable. Had that motif been developed before you started working there?

Daphne Sebold (6:47)

Yeah, so we, I mean I'm on the, the board of the Farm and you know, Dan founded the Farm, Dan Colon, who's my, my business partner on the brand, but founded the farm really 2012. And so, you know, the Farm has been doing this like really kind of unique and model building work for a very long time, you know, donating 100% of everything they grow regeneratively, et cetera, et cetera. And Dan actually, gosh, I don't know how long ago it was, but certainly prior to starting the brand, he developed some, you know, really, really incredible icons with the artist Joanna Avilas, who does a lot of the sort of, you know, the New Yorker illustrations. She's a good friend and she came up with this incredible sort of strawberry moon icon which as you sort of point out, has become just so sort of like recognizable. But I think it's sort of charm and it's very charming. Right. It's like it's a strawberry and moon embracing. But it's just that it's sort of like engaging and aspirational and like people of all ages, children, adults alike are like, this is. What is this? And I think that's the sort of dialogue we're trying to provoke through a very sort of cute set of visuals.

Lauren Sherman (7:58)

I love it when it pops up. It's such a nice. And it has a parallel to the comb heart in some way. Like they both have a nice. Like you see it and it feels familiar and even for people who don't know what it is, like it has, there's something about it that feels nice to see and it's not too in your face either. It's sort of just like, totally.

Daphne Sebold (8:23)

I love that you drew that parallel. I mean, I think in some ways we want obviously the Strawberry Moon to be emblematic and powerful in that way where it's like, it can invite the viewer in, but you may not know immediately what it is. But we've heard amazing stories. I had someone text me from Menorca and they were like, someone's wearing a Sky high T shirt here. Or, you know, people running the Reservoir in la and they, you know, they see each other. One's wearing a hat, the other's wearing a T shirt. And it sort of signals like a little bit of, like an understanding or like a badge of belonging, you know, something about values. I don't know, but we've been really pleasantly surprised.

Lauren Sherman (8:59)

Love it. So we'll get more into your work at Sky High and what you've been building there for three years now. But tell me a little bit about your life in fashion. How did you get into the. Into fashion?

Daphne Sebold (9:13)

Well, I was. I mean, I grew up quite far away from it all. I mean, I was in Hong Kong, which is itself sort of like a fashion. You know, people are very sort of obsessed with fashion there. But, you know, I was one of those people that was, you know, buying all the magazines overseas. They would come in, like, Italian, Vogue and Self Service. They would all come in, like, six months after they'd been published. But I'd sort of scour those, like a lot of people, and always wanted to get into the business, but really had no clue, like, what skill set I had to offer. And when I moved to the States for college, I just, you know, I'd started reading a lot of, like, fashion criticism. Kathy. I was reading a lot of Kathy and I was like, wow, you can. You can get paid to say very precisely what you think. I don't. I don't think I've ever told her that, but, you know, just sort of.

Lauren Sherman (9:59)

Made me think, she's the most precise.

Daphne Sebold (10:01)

She's the most precise and opinionated. And I really sort of respected that. But it occurred to me that if I was even going to consider fashion journalism, I'd actually have to understand how clothes were made. So did an undergrad degree in California and then moved out to do another degree at Parsons and then just began interning like crazy. Just trying to learn, you know, every conceivable job within the trade. Because, you know, I think it's really hard to sort of. Fashion seems so impermeable. From the outside, and not really until you do the work, do you understand.

Daphne Sebold (10:36)

Or develop even sort of the empathy to kind of understand how that work happens and, like, the level of sort of experience and skill that goes into it. So that was really kind of like the way it all began to percolate. And I realized pretty quickly, you know, there were so many people who were so much more skilled than me at sort of fashion commentary that I sort of fell into PR at CDG and just never left and got to work with a lot of my heroes and some of the talents that way. So it was really kind of like a parallel pathing that kind of led me to this particular point.

Lauren Sherman (11:15)

But I think, personally, the best PR people are people who could have also been journalists because they understand.

Lauren Sherman (11:26)

And great journalists could be great PR people.

Lauren Sherman (11:31)

I think Caitlin Phillips is a good example of this. Of she kind of wanted to be a writer and was sort of like, I don't think this works. I'm gonna do PR cause I need to make money. And now it's like she's doing both. And I love it. I think that most of the comms people that I've become good friends with are people who either started in journalism or thought they might do journalism. And it's really about understanding the reason we're all doing this, which I think a lot of people on both sides don't understand.

Daphne Sebold (12:07)

Yeah, I mean, I think also just very sort of, basically.

Daphne Sebold (12:12)

I would have a very hard time selling products or ideas that I didn't believe in or couldn't really kind of endorse. And, you know, I was very lucky that the place that I worked at had a very sort of strong sense of purpose and intention. So that was really not that hard. But I think, especially when you're in a corporate space, you know, there's a very clear sort of objective and agenda whenever you're coordinating any type of storytelling. And so being able to work with a journalist, understanding what their needs are.

Daphne Sebold (12:44)

You'Re really sort of like the ultimate mediator facilitator. And you have to be able to listen. Because I've also seen situations where people have been very sort of demanding about what they want, and I don't know, the outcome sometimes is good, but other times it can definitely go the other way.

Lauren Sherman (13:01)

So I agree with you on both sides, I think for sure, like, sometimes the brand wants too much control and they don't, and then it turns out not fun. And then sometimes on the other end, the journalist doesn't put all the work in or like, wants things that doesn't don't make sense aren't going to make the story better, and that also makes it unfun.

Daphne Sebold (13:29)

So, yeah, I mean, and apologies to all the people that I've done stories with over the years like cdg. We had a very clear sense of our guidelines and what we were sort of willing to kind of share. And, you know, I think part of it was just, you know, Ray always felt like the clothes and the business model should speak for itself. So does it require a tremendous amount of explanation? You know, I don't know. But certainly.

Daphne Sebold (13:55)

It pays to be working in concert with, you know, the journalists, certainly the ones that understand and, like, are committed to the. To real storytelling.

Podcast Host / Narrator (14:07)

Now open at hauser and Wirth's 22nd street gallery. And spanning two floors, Louise Bourgeois's Gathering Wool explores the artist's complex relationship to abstraction through a series of late sculptures, reliefs, and works on paper, many of which have never been exhibited before. These will be installed alongside a selection of earlier works to illuminate the consistency of Bourgeois themes and her development of a symbolic abstract language. The exhibition comes with a re release of the publication Louise Bourgeois the Insomnia Drawings and a full slate of programs that invite you to dive deeper into the world of Louise Bourgeois. I cannot wait to see it while I'm in New York this week. Visit the exhibition at 542 W. 22nd St, New York, and hauserworth.com for more information.

Lauren Sherman (15:13)

So how did you end up at Comme des Garsan and.

Lauren Sherman (15:18)

For so long? Because you stayed until. Until you took this job. So how many? It was 15 years. So, yeah. When you got there, did you think that, like, you were just like these people? I'll never stop learning from them. And so many different projects came up. I'm sure you were there for you. You were after the launch of Dover street, though, right?

Daphne Sebold (15:40)

So. No, no, I was there. Well, I was there for New York. I was there for New York, but I was in the business in the U.S.

Daphne Sebold (15:49)

Like at, you know, Dover street in London. It launched, but was still relatively in its infancy. So, you know, it's like I started there actually as an intern, press intern, and the organization is very flat. There isn't a lot of hierarchy. So the level of exposure and the things that you get to do very early on were just incredible. And I think I sort of see it as vocational school because they were really willing to let me try a little bit of everything during that time that I sort of was interning. You know, I Did a wholesale internship, I worked on the sales floor which was like one of the best experiences I've ever had. Just the sort of hustle that's required to work and like start from zero every day in retail and then have to prove yourself day in and day out. And so eventually what happened was my predecessor left and they ended up, you know, after two years of sort of just being around, they, they, they offered me the sort of head of press and in the US job which I was like woefully unqualified for. But I think in a setting like that.

Daphne Sebold (16:54)

I don't want to call it sink or swim, but you find out pretty quickly if you can hang. And it's a very self selecting individual that kind of chooses to stay at CDG and Dover just given its sort of spirit and sort of approach to work. So, you know, I stayed and like every year was just full of so many incredible projects and exposure, you know, I think I did, you know, Ermes's first collaboration, I was right there working in lockstep with Andrew Bolton and Ray and Adrian on the Met, you know, the curation. I got to see the archives every year sort of unlocked a new thing. And.

Daphne Sebold (17:36)

Yeah, I think as you know I grew into the business, I developed a rapport with Ray and you know, that very direct line of connection was really kind of like inspiring to me obviously to learn from her directly but also to be able to in some very small way sort of influence what she was seeing and hearing.

Daphne Sebold (17:55)

Being that she's just so busy, you know, I could be her eyes and ears on the ground. So yeah, it was really like there was no reason to leave. Honestly. I got to work with all of the best emergent brands from Simone and Craig and Maureen Ser, all these folks who were up and coming, you know, through to the Gucci's and the LVMH brands of the world that came into Dover Street. So it was kind of like an amazing schooling experience.

Daphne Sebold (18:22)

Where I was constantly able to learn from everyone around me. Not just sort of like, sort of very kind of compartmentalized PR work.

Lauren Sherman (18:31)

Because you did have these relationships and you did all this work with other brands even though you didn't work at other companies. You mentioned the flat organization, but what do you think? And I'm just going to say their full names in case people aren't familiar, right. Kyle Kubo and Adrian Joffe. What do you think they've built within that business that is unique, that makes it able to operate so smoothly? Or, I mean, I don't know how smoothly, but it seems quite smoothly from the outside and. And to grow in a way that feels it's a commercial business, but it feels like it grows sort of outward instead of stacking up so outward. So it's not going to all fall over or something. But what else do you think kind of makes it unique in the fashion ecosystem?

Daphne Sebold (19:19)

I mean, I think it's definitely that, Lauren, they were very clear that every single line of business within the business needed to have a reason to exist. They didn't really believe in diffusion, which I think sort of says what it suggests. Right. Certainly with something like Comm Mainline, there was a very strong design direction. But then with something like Play, which is seemingly quite simple, you know that the ethos for that line is like design by no design.

Natural Cycles Advertiser (19:49)

Right.

Daphne Sebold (19:49)

This idea that you could have the building blocks of a wardrobe with a very simple emblem, and that in of itself was its own business proposition. And how so many people came to know about the brand before they came to even understand. There was a show in Paris and it had been around for, you know, however long. So I think that that sort of spirit of purpose was like, really is really central to the business. And always they're always kind of questioning the sort of, what is the necessity of each function, each type of product. But I think they're also very clear on the fact that business is a very, very close second to creation in the business. I mean, you really cannot sustain creation for this amount of time without having a very clear sense of how you can commercialize your products and sell them broadly. So there's that. And then I think also.

Daphne Sebold (20:39)

We never, you know, when I was there, and still to this day, they never really follow trends. I think they're sort of.

Daphne Sebold (20:48)

Really, really comfortable marching to the beat of their own drum. I think that that point of view, you know, one that isn't sort of inured to what's happening in the greater sort of ecosystem, is important because I think, for one, it's allowed them to really develop a sort of signature. But it also pervades the thinking in the actual business structure itself. So you see it in the design, but it's also a company that's been very much designed.

Daphne Sebold (21:18)

And yeah, I sort of have always admired, especially with the merchandising and the planning, right. We would always buy the strongest, most interesting pieces. We would take a lot of chances on emergent designers. Adrian would be in someone's, you know, buying someone's school collection, you know, Melita Baumeister, I remember, was one of them, Maureen Ser, you know, just really kind of being excited by, but also buying into these sort of unknown names, you know, at the time that we felt just had a really strong point of view. So it was really kind of this pervasive value system.

Lauren Sherman (21:55)

Fascinating to think of a fashion company having a value system given. I mean, they all do, but it really applies. Lays right over what you ended up doing afterwards.

Daphne Sebold (22:09)

I think so. And I certainly, I think being at the center of like capital F fashion, especially now that I'm sort of one foot in, one foot out, was like very valuable because, you know, I met people like you, but I also met all these tremendous sort of brand contacts, many of them PRs that were the ones that supported me, you know, with making these sort of bigger recommendations. When I went to Balenciaga, you know, Daniel and Robin Meeson, like really kind of helped me, helped advocate for Sky High to do something within Balenciaga and just it was a real sort of. There's a community there. And, you know, I think we've all sort of been in the trenches and come up together and now we're all in positions of decision making power which, you know, I've been very happy to kind of benefit from as I've launched Sky High and kind of work to galvanize a larger sort of corporate involvement in this kind of work.

Lauren Sherman (23:02)

So, yeah, it's really fun to be in your. I don't know if you're in your 40s, but to be around your 40s.

Daphne Sebold (23:10)

I think I'm older than you, Lauren, so. Yes, definitely.

Lauren Sherman (23:13)

Okay. I don't know, but I think we're similar. But it's very.

Daphne Sebold (23:18)

Well, you're on 82, baby, right? 82, yeah, yeah, I'm an 82.

Lauren Sherman (23:22)

Oh, yes, yes. So we're. Yes, we're all. This is the 80 to 84. This is our time. So it's super fun. I'm having a great time just seeing all these 80 to 84 people. Just totally fly.

Daphne Sebold (23:36)

Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.

Lauren Sherman (23:40)

So what made you do it? What made you say, I'm going to go. I'm sure you were close with Dan. You had done projects with them at cdg, right?

Daphne Sebold (23:51)

Yeah. So while I was at Dover, Dan sort of came in. He had been doing this farm on the side. I mean, he's an artist first and foremost, but had been running the farm for Gosh, it's been 13 years now. And you know, I think at the time he sort of. I think it was 2018. He approached Dover street and Said, listen, you know, I've got these icons and I've made some small jarred goods. They're very beloved. Would there be an appetite to see if there's a merchandise sort of opportunity there? And, you know, we did what sort of followed. And I look back, it was a little bit crazy because we did essentially what was a 100% for charity project.

Daphne Sebold (24:33)

And it was inviting. It was different chapters. And we invited essentially, you know, a lot of the streetwear brands, you know, from supreme to Awake, Cactus Denim Tears through to established artists. You know, we did an artist chapter. It was like 23 artists, you know, Carol Walker Murakami, Jeff Koons, Rasheed Johnson, and then finally sort of finished up on this Balenciaga and Comme des Garcons moment. And essentially it was merchandise that bore the icon of the farm, the strawberry and moon. And then it was sort of like, you know, we designed this merchandise with these individuals and brands, and when we brought it to the store, I mean, the stuff really, really performed. And we sort of saw that there was a kernel there, right, that the logo had this way of inviting people in, but that once they were in, they could participate or sort of open the aperture for people to participate in really urgent food systems issues, but also be able to patronize it and support it in a way that was like, enticing to them, right? So making desirable, covetable goods that then sort of, you know, once you were in dialogue with the brand, you know, we could begin to educate and sort of talk to you about food equity issues and food sovereignty. So that was really where like, it began to percolate. And at the same time, you know, we were living through the pandemic. BLM happened. It's still with us, you know, AAPI moment, like all of those really kind of seminal social justice moments. You know, I'd then, at that point, been at CDG for about 14 years and just sort of felt like, you know, we were obviously working really hard to keep the business going. And it was such a difficult time. And I remember just sort of seeing all these people that were sort of in pain, you know, like, even on social media, in the feed, you know, we'd be selling goods to keep the business running smoothly. And just to sort of see this, like, disjuncture was like, quite eye opening for me. And after that all happened, I had a really hard time elasticating back to business as usual. And I'd become much more sort of interested in the farm's work. I'd always been interested in nonprofit work. But had never. I was like, I don't really know. What would I do to get into that field? Would I start again? I just couldn't figure out how to give back.

Daphne Sebold (27:02)

And then this sort of opportunity materialized in a way that was really organic, which in hindsight was probably really kind of risky.

Daphne Sebold (27:11)

I think I was also eight months pregnant at the time when I quit.

Daphne Sebold (27:16)

But it was honestly one of the first things, Lauren, that felt really sort of natural to me. And I think because I'd been at CDG in Dover for so long and it loved no reason to leave, I turned down other jobs at companies just because I was so sort of still connected to what Ray and Adrian were doing. And to then sort of move into a space where I could create something that was in my own. That sort of embraced my own sort of thinking, but also capitalized on a lot of what I'd already established and understood from working at CDG in Dover was like, quite an amazing challenge.

Daphne Sebold (27:53)

And so, yeah, we kicked it off from there in about 2022. And, you know, the real sort of, like, impetus, aside from seeing that there was like, the. The germ of an idea there, was that, you know, the farm is a nonprofit. It does incredible work. It's donated something like £200,000 of, like, the most nutritious food to marginalized community and is increasingly, it's very much focused on sort of sharing resources.

Daphne Sebold (28:23)

So really kind of showing how to improve equity across the entire food systems.

Daphne Sebold (28:30)

You know, issue. And, you know, non profits are totally dependent on the financial support of the very, very wealthy. But not everyone can write a million dollar check and write one consistently. And then, you know, the other way that you typically fund nonprofits is through grants. Those often come with institutional interests attached. And so this idea that we could look at philanthropy, which is in itself quite flawed and, like, difficult, and then kind of say, okay, there's actually a capitalistic kind of lever that we can pull here and sort of harness to generate better outcomes for those without resources was really, really kind of a fascinating experience. And honestly was one of the hardest. It is one of the hardest comms jobs I've ever done, because you want to try to communicate, you know, these really sort of serious ideas. I mean, right now we're obviously in a pretty critical moment with, like, snap, and all this administration change has led to total shift in funding. And so, like, the theoretical premise for the brand to me is very clear. But how do you begin to communicate to people what it actually is when it's solely built? You know these beautiful products are solely built to support a charitable and to cries.

Podcast Host / Narrator (29:51)

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Lauren Sherman (32:03)

Can you walk us through relatively quickly this the infrastructure of sky high farm goods which is the you and I have talked a lot. I think maybe I did a story at BOF when you first got there about like mission based how to build a mission based brand. Yeah and that was like a much bigger sort of thing in the discourse 10 or 15 years ago and now it's Sort of pulled back probably because of, you know, anti woke rhetoric and all that. But also most of them were flimsy. Whereas you all have like built something that's like the infrastructure is there to support what you're doing. So like, can you walk me through how the goods part works to feed the charitable part and also how you.

Lauren Sherman (32:57)

Kind of decide who to collaborate with and partner with? Because it's, I'm sure there needs to be some sort of not just aesthetic shared interest, but like value based.

Daphne Sebold (33:09)

Interesting. Yeah. So I think, you know, the, the brand only exists to do this other thing which is to raise revenue and advocacy for the farm's work. I mean, we make beautiful products and first and foremost you have to have a strong product proposition that's enticing, et cetera. But we're literally sort of born out of the soil to kind of support the farm's work. And so we really try to actively center the farm's needs and exposure within our business model. And it's a lot like a Newman zone, if you will, for those in the sort of 40 and above set we only care about.

Lauren Sherman (33:48)

That's a great, a great way to put it. That's interest. A good computer.

Daphne Sebold (33:53)

Yeah. I mean, they're incredible. And I think very few people know that they've raised $600 million over the lifetime of that brand, 100% of profits to charity. And Dan and I were fortunate when we first started to really be in dialogue with folks in leadership at places like Newman's Own, Patagonia, we looked a lot at red. You know, I think this idea that we didn't just want to create a brand that would sort of do a bunch of marketing projects that would just then donate a tiny sum of money that wasn't really interesting to us. If we were going to do it, we were going to go full tilt and make it sort of as potent as possible. So.

Daphne Sebold (34:33)

With that sort of as like the key pillar and then everything else sort of flowing from there, it sort of creates a series of like very important constraints around what you can do, who you can work with and how you work with them.

Daphne Sebold (34:47)

You know, the idea to collaborate and I would say like Dover Street Market Paris, which is an incubator, right. And obviously my former employer, they approached us in early days and said, listen, there's something here. Like we would be happy to make a collection with you. The brand would handle the design, the marketing comms. They would handle the manufacturing, the distribution, the sales. And that was really interesting because they would provide sort of all of the infrastructural support, they had economies of scale. I wasn't interested in taking on a factory that wasn't really the mo. So that sort of willingness and interest was a big part of it. And I think a lot of what governs who we can partner with now.

Daphne Sebold (35:34)

But I think more sort of pressingly, we came up with a really cool donation mechanism.

Daphne Sebold (35:42)

As far as I know, it's sort of the first time it's been done in fashion. But essentially we built a markup into the wholesale price of the goods and from there just cleaved a direct donation to the farm, which meant, you know, with every wholesaler purchase and by extension every customer purchase, they were rendered a donor to the farm's work. So this idea that like people could buy beautifully made clothes that were really, you know, more sustainably produced, I mean, we tried to make everything out of dead stock, you know, upcycled fabrics.

Daphne Sebold (36:13)

You know, not wanting to obviously contribute to fashion's ginormous waste problem. But, you know, seeing that we could take a lot of what we knew, having worked in fashion and art and kind of pull levers within those systems, you know, there was maybe like an opportunity to kind of infiltrate the business from the inside out. And so very quickly, like the types of brands that were willing to do this with us became very apparent. You know, they all have ESG pillars, they all have, you know, check marks they're trying to make. I think because we come out of this very specific space, like that's already quite enticing to people, but you know, we ask them to commit in, in ways that are much bigger than you would normally see in a, you know, one time partnership. So, you know, in the case of on, for example, they've been incredibly generous with us. I think what's really unique about them is that they, I mean, they're obviously at the height of their powers right now. They're doing incredibly well. Rather than just saying, hey daft, let's do like a small little capsule on the side, we're going to incorporate you into our inline offering, right, so that you can have the sort of robust marketing and sales operation behind it. You know, we're collaborating on their bestselling SKU, which is the Cloud 6, and it's really sort of their style proposition.

Daphne Sebold (37:34)

And so we've been sort of centered in their business in that regard and are slowly building towards something that is really, really unique over the course of a two year period. But essentially you have to kind of start simply first. And as you know, it takes forever to actually make a new footwear skew. So we're actually working towards. I have to think about how much I can share, but it's farmer inspired workwear made with their Swiss engineering. And you know, it's incredible because rather than just sort of making or cosplaying farmer gear, we're actually having our farmers test, you know, the products to ensure that they have the right sort of utility and functionality for their everyday work. But people like them. And then Balenciaga, for example, that was a really incredible experiment in that they donated a significant sum of merchandise to us that we customized with artwork from Ryan McGinley, you know, Nadia, Leah Cohen. We asked her to shoot a campaign for us. I think she was shooting the Balenciaga campaign at the same time. And you know, this is stuff that had been through the system. It had been on the sales floor, gone to discount outlets, friends and fam. You know, like it really, it was what would have been collecting dust at the warehouse. And we essentially took it and really kind of worked to re imbue it with value. I think it was kind of like this proposition that like the customers become so habituated to newness in this really sort of expedited cycle of consumption and that we could take something, sell it for half the price and sort of turn it around, sell it at Dover Street. You know, obviously that's a stamp of approval there, but just it kind of showed us that there is an appetite for that kind of model and way of thinking. But, you know, not every brand would have been open to, to, to doing that with a fledgling brand. So yeah, it's, it's pretty incredible. And then the other one that I would sort of shout out is, is Levi's. We have something coming out with them next year. I'm super excited about it. They.

Daphne Sebold (39:43)

Have an incredible program around transitional cotton.

Daphne Sebold (39:47)

And are going to partner with us for the first time to kind of help showcase and storytell around sort of the necessity of farmers being able to transition from regular.

Daphne Sebold (40:01)

Ways of manufacturing and growing cotton to organic cotton practices. But I think the consumer is still relatively uneducated about this. They're. There's a lot of greenwashing fatigue, obviously. So the fact that we have this really innate connection to the soil and like growing practices, I think makes us an ideal candidate to partner with them. And yeah, I'm really sort of loving this sort of capacity to partner with all these really mega big brands. Right. In very different ways. I think because we're small and we're nimble. We can essentially sort of respond to their needs. Obviously I come from brand side, so we kind of understand how package ideas in a way that they can easily understand. But yeah, it really comes down to the collaborator and what they're sort of willing to do and what their supply chain can do.

Lauren Sherman (40:53)

It sounds really satisfying. It is satisfying work. Hard, but satisfying.

Daphne Sebold (40:59)

It's hard. And I figured if I was going to quit my job in luxury fashion, I would go for it. Yeah, but it's great. Like it's been three and a half years. We've raised about $1.5 million in donations. And that's just been through, you know, this wholesale donation program I mentioned, but also like amazing partnerships with Balenciaga, Tata, Harper, you know, Nike, Converse.

Daphne Sebold (41:26)

Chanel has been very generous. You know, I, I, I can't name the whole list, but it's what has been satisfying, honestly, is that we've been able to invite these incredible brands who would typically not be in dialogue with each other to participate in the same work. And you know, oftentimes they're competitors. And that part is really satisfying for me because in the work that I do now, beyond sort of the amazing life and privilege of it, you know, I'm really kind of acutely aware there's this like undercurrent of real serious need. Very sort of pervasive and it's getting much worse. So, yeah, I think it's, that part has been really kind of cool, I would say.

Lauren Sherman (42:10)

That's awesome.

Daphne Sebold (42:11)

Thank you.

Lauren Sherman (42:11)

Daphne, I have one final question for you.

Lauren Sherman (42:15)

You've been out of the business. Well, you're not really out of the luxury business, but you've been like out of the game for three years and obviously CDG stands on its own and isn't. But I'm so curious. It's changed so much since you went to sky high and built this. What do you think of what's happening in the fashion world right now?

Daphne Sebold (42:40)

I think it's, I mean, you talk so much about sort of what's, you know, these sort of macro movements in the industry and micro movements. I think being a very small brand and not obviously having the heft of a large, you know, not negotiating on behalf of a large brand.

Daphne Sebold (42:57)

It's sort of interesting to witness the wholesale changes in the business, especially, you know, with the big retailers.

Daphne Sebold (43:05)

The extent to which small brands like my, my own, but also many others are totally dependent on, you know, these models, which quite frankly sometimes feel like a race to the bottom. Right. The discounting cycle.

Daphne Sebold (43:21)

You know, Well, I mean, I don't want to name any names. We're all really familiar with them, but I think there's just a reality there that sort of begs the question of, like, why we're proceeding like business as usual. You know, administration change, tariffs. Like, in some ways, it's actually a time to kind of revolutionize the way we raise money or make money, but also understanding that there are these bigger and larger sort of geopolitical but also sociocultural currents. Right. Like, I think that people want to be more consciously consuming. And, you know, I think the best work that you do is the stuff that you do when no one's watching. And I think for us, certainly as someone who depends on sort of the largesse of these corporations, I think just, you know, what is our sense of sort of social responsibility in a world that's incredibly fraught and has its own sort of complexities and contributions to climate change? So, sorry to get all sort of philosophical, but I do think, you know, when you're one foot out and you're sort of able to see the hum and drum of the machine and, you know, I understand why it is the way it is. I mean, I was a contributor to it for very long, but I do think this particular moment demands totally different thinking.

Lauren Sherman (44:40)

I. 100%. I couldn't have said it better than. Than that. I think the thing that people aren't understanding is the way people live their lives has changed. And so.

Lauren Sherman (44:54)

The need, or the need is not the right word, but the reason to buy things has changed totally.

Lauren Sherman (45:02)

Even if you're not consciously thinking about the social impact of what you're doing, you're thinking about it just by habits changing and the world changing. And I think a lot of these companies, because they're driven by quarterly results, understandably, like.

Lauren Sherman (45:21)

I am one of the people who has pushed for all this stuff to become very visible, and I understand why they behave in the way they do, but I think people are kind of missing the bigger picture, which is that it's not about bouncing back from something that's. No, there's no bouncing back. It's just moving in a different direction.

Daphne Sebold (45:42)

It is. And it's so interesting because now, you know, I'm that. That girl that gets to go to regenerative ag forums. And, you know, I was at Global Fashion Agenda. You know, we. I was on a panel there. And she's so interesting because, you see, you've got the middle management there, you've got the head of Sustainability there, but very few CFOs in the room. And unless the bottom line really reflects a sort of more sort of institutional shift, it's just never going to happen. And I think one of the great pleasures of making a small brand that can do what it likes is I think even with something as simple as Tallow, which.

Daphne Sebold (46:20)

Has really kind of blossomed for us as a business, it's our second best.

Lauren Sherman (46:23)

I love that product so much.

Daphne Sebold (46:25)

Oh, thanks.

Lauren Sherman (46:25)

Yeah, it's so creamy and. And it's amazing. It's a really great product.

Daphne Sebold (46:31)

I think we've become, especially in beauty. And I guess I can share like we're getting ready to launch beauty in a very big way next year. I'm in the middle of raising for it, but I had a huge sort of contract manufacturer reach out to me because they were like the type of ethos that you're talking about is really the next wave after Clean Beauty. And so were really kind of embracing this idea that products not only. And I think Clean Beauty sort of mantra is like do no harm. Right? But it's not impact driven. And what we're really sort of trying to accomplish is something that is both sort of very high in efficacy and, you know, the ingredients that come out of the earth when it's stewarded a very specific way. You know, the products are very efficacious and nutrient dense. And so it's really kind of like not only can you use products that are excellent for you and maybe even better for you, but you can also actively repair the planet and heal the soil while you do it. And I think that, you know, I think where I'm at is trying to solve for both of those things at once. And so this idea that a product like Tallow, which, you know, I know it's kind of having its moment right now, but like, I was really kind of interested in like highlighting the fact that like a cream could be made out of something that is typically kind of viewed as a byproduct or a waste product and sort of reframing it as a co product. And that was something that came out of a conversation with one of our farmers who was like, you know, these beautiful animals, I mean, only 0.1% of them, the cattle are grass fed. So you can imagine from like a luxury or sort of scarcity standpoint, that's incredibly rare, but 60% of an animal after it's harvested goes to landfill. And so, you know, I think that there's ways to be kind of like inventive and look at like the existing sort of opportunities that exist to us. You don't have to go. It doesn't have to be extractive or super far flung. You don't have to go to Madagascar or wherever to get your key ingredients. I mean, it's just how you grow them. And I do think that the sort of comms challenge, but also like the intellectual challenge of building a brand that's like, really kind of interested in looking at the world's existing inputs and how you can improve upon them rather than trying to rewrite. The wheel is a good one. So it extends to your purchasing decisions too. Right. And it's interesting. Like the Erewhons, the happier groceries, they've been deeply supportive, but also across the sort of fashion sphere, too, because they see that we've made a lot of products that are desirable. You know, we work with the best talents in the industry to help us storytell from photographers like Ryan and, you know, Mel's been on the show a bunch of times. Alistair McKim, you know, like all these incredible human beings. Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (49:21)

Alistair McKim needs to be on Fashion People. You need to get saying he'll do it. He keeps saying he'll do it. We need a. We need a news pig. We'll figure it out.

Daphne Sebold (49:29)

I'm not sure this. He's got plenty of things that he's doing that are interesting. Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (49:36)

Daphne, this was such a pleasure. You're so smart, and it was also inspiring and cool. I appreciate you. Thank you for all your contributions.

Daphne Sebold (49:45)

Thank you for rescheduling with me.

Lauren Sherman (49:46)

Also, just please, for dealing with. I'm dealing. We recorded this the day before everyone, and it was the Dario day. So I'm in. Like, I'm in.

Lauren Sherman (49:59)

Yeah.

Daphne Sebold (49:59)

One group.

Lauren Sherman (50:01)

No, of course. It's so good to connect, and I can't wait to see you in person the next time I'm here.

Podcast Host / Narrator (50:08)

Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey. JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.

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