Hilary Kerr (3:50)

Check that out.

Lauren Sherman (3:50)

And let's get going with Hillary. Hillary Kerr, welcome back to Fashion People.

Hilary Kerr (3:57)

Thank you very much for having me. I love your podcast almost as much as I love your newsletter, so I'm always excited when we get a chance to talk officially.

Lauren Sherman (4:06)

The. The love is mutual, Hillary. I'm, I'm such a fan of. We were just chatting a bit offline about last night, the Golden Globes, how you are still in the who, what 20 years on, you're still in the who, what, where? Slack Channel, helping out with credits. I feel very confident figuring out who's styling who. Well, you know, we've discussed this before, but the kind of securing the credits, that's a lot of research and reporting. And it requires a level of not only, like, having a sense of who someone's wearing, but also, like, who their stylist works with regularly.

Hilary Kerr (4:44)

Who.

Lauren Sherman (4:44)

I would say, like the Rose Byrne Chanel. I wasn't surprised, but I didn't know for sure because it wasn't like a traditional Chanel look.

Hilary Kerr (4:53)

Yes.

Lauren Sherman (4:53)

Once I heard it was Chanel, I got it because I feel like that color is very MeToo.

Hilary Kerr (4:57)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (4:58)

But you'd have to. You have to do. Do the work to get to that.

Hilary Kerr (5:02)

Yes. I love the details, though. It's like, that's, to me, I think what these brands and the stylists create together, along with the hair and makeup teams and all of the accessories and all that, like, it's. It's so important. And they have thought through that level of detail. And it feels like, as a journalist, like, to honor that is of paramount importance. Plus, I enjoy it. It's storytelling. I love all the details. I'm the nerd who gets. Who's interested in the press release about the. You know, where the jewelry is from and what the history is. So I love all of that stuff. It's just. I can't help it. All these years.

Lauren Sherman (5:39)

That's why you're here. That's why you're here. So let's go through, first of all, impressions overall of the evenings, red carpet and just all of the fashion. What did you think in sum?

Hilary Kerr (5:55)

So I was very excited because I feel like this is the dawn of some of these new creative directors in their new roles. And I was curious to see what would happen. Truthfully, I was a little bit surprised that it was more. I don't wanna say conservative, but more traditional than I thought it might be. Yeah, there were lots of, like, all of the very narrow, shimmering columns, narrow silhouettes, the amount of black on the red carpet. I was surprised by that. I thought the Globes, to me, has always been my favorite award show because one, you have a larger pool of people. You have the movie stars and film actors and tv and all of that. It feels. Feels less serious in some ways, in part because people are drinking heavily during it than like, the Oscars. So I tend to think of this as one of my favorites just because people tend to go for it a little bit more. But I was surprised that it was not more fashion necessarily than it was. What did you think?

Lauren Sherman (6:57)

I thought it was a little random. It didn't feel super exciting. I loved Teyana Taylor.

Hilary Kerr (7:06)

That Schiaparelli was it.

Lauren Sherman (7:08)

That was it. That's number one. She was.

Hilary Kerr (7:10)

Choose the moment. She looked phenomenal. The fit. Everything about her is flawless.

Lauren Sherman (7:15)

Yes. The fit, the attitude, the every. She's amazing. And I loved that look so much. A lot of the other stuff felt, like, nice or there was some stuff that was very pretty. I thought it really sort of showed. There's some stuff I wrote in Monday's line sheet that we can also get into here a bit about, like, what it said about the state of the different houses and how they're managing things. But that was the only look that I was like other than Robin Wright, who wore Ralph Lauren and just as stunning. But that was very traditional. The Teyana Taylor was the only one where I Was like, damn, this is a amazing dress. And I feel excited to be looking at this stuff. Whereas everything else was sort of, oh, that's nice. There wasn't a lot that was like really impactful. And look, we're early in the season.

Hilary Kerr (8:15)

Right.

Lauren Sherman (8:15)

But I also think it reflects the fact that there's just so many events that they're going to now and they all have to be dressed. Like this weekend. There were so many things. I went to the WMAG party on Saturday night, which was super fun. But there, like Britt. Is it Britt Lower, who's on severance? She was wearing an amazing Dario Versace look. She looked really great. And I almost. I liked her. Loewe a lot too, for red carpet. But it was almost like some of the looks at these parties. Yeah. Or more important in a way than the looks that they wore on the red carpet. And so because there's just so much stuff that people have to get dressed for now. And someone said to me on Saturday night that it felt like. I think it might have been Lynn Hirschberg, that it felt like this was making up for. Even though Globes happen. I guess. Did they happen last year? They were delayed.

Hilary Kerr (9:22)

They were delayed, I think.

Lauren Sherman (9:24)

Yeah. Because of the fires in January and Feb in LA were kind of. Nothing really happened. That it felt like everyone was sort of back with a vengeance and tons of parties and dinners and all that stuff. And I also think that this is the first. My whole theory is this, we're finally in post pandemic that last year was the. But now we're really back to real life and everyone's just like, ah. And all these new houses, they have to make a big splash, a big impression, and there's just so much going on. But so, yeah, I was not blown away or super energized by last night, but also it's fine.

Hilary Kerr (10:07)

Yeah, I didn't feel surprised, but I was also pleased. Like, there were so many really great fits, beautiful pieces. Was it, you know, jaw dropping, revolutionary? No. Does it need to be also?

Lauren Sherman (10:22)

No.

Hilary Kerr (10:23)

Like, these are. These are. I always love a big fashion moment and an awards season, but at the same time, like, it's not the Met Gala and so you sort of tailor your expectations accordingly. I also like the fact that you and I were texting last night about Colman Domingo in custom Valentino and Boucheron, which I. I loved it. I. And I also thought this is one of those years too, where I thought some of the fellows looked really on point. Like the heated rivalry guys Looked phenomenal and that made that made me really thrilled.

Lauren Sherman (10:53)

I agree. Are you watching Heated Rivalry?

Hilary Kerr (10:55)

I was a very early reader watcher talker about her.

Lauren Sherman (11:01)

Yes, I'm gonna watch it this week. I have to watch it. I've been avoiding it and now I must engage with culture. Amazing.

Hilary Kerr (11:08)

Yes. Like it is. I'm a rom com girl. What can I say?

Blue Apron Announcer (11:12)

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Lauren Sherman (11:13)

Okay. Well, I'm gonna engage this week and perhaps there will be some content on line cheat about it. But yeah, I thought Colman Domingo looked amazing and also the spray of boucheron birds or what? I mean it's just incredible. And there have been so many brooches and things on the red carpet with men for the last couple seasons. And this was. He just has incredible personal style. I thought that the Valentino suit, it was all black but had a real silhouette and he just knows how to wear. He was at the W Mag party wearing Valentino on Saturday and he looked great there too. He just has amazing personal style and that is really reflected. But yeah, I thought that, that I thought a lot of the Armani people looked really good. I thought that Julia Roberts looked fantastic. I agree.

Hilary Kerr (12:06)

I feel like she looked phenomenal. It was not again, like, this is not something that's revolutionary, but it was flawlessly executed.

Lauren Sherman (12:14)

Agreed. Yes. It felt like, it felt like very her with the necklace, but also not anything. Again, it wasn't just like, it wasn't like wow. There were very few moments where I thought wow, but I thought she looked great. I thought Justine Loop. Who our friend Rebecca Ramsey Styles looked fabulous and beautiful and that dress looked very comfortable, which is something that I don't know if that matters, but she felt very comfortable in it, like an.

Hilary Kerr (12:52)

Ethereal mermaid fairy princess. And I love the sheerness of it as well.

Lauren Sherman (12:58)

I love the nip nips, which I.

Hilary Kerr (13:01)

Feel like is a like runs on the more fashiony side of things as well. I thought she looked great.

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Jill Schlesinger (13:40)

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Lauren Sherman (14:12)

What did we think of Chanel's sort of debut? Yes. All of the different look. What was your favorite?

Hilary Kerr (14:19)

What?

Lauren Sherman (14:20)

Rose.

Hilary Kerr (14:21)

Rose. I mean, I'm a. I'm a color fan in general. I also really liked Selena's as well. I feel like that was an interesting textural way of doing old Hollywood and felt like a great execution of it. But for me, it was Rose. I always love IO I think she looks beautiful. That dress was not the, like, my favorite Chanel look of all time, but I thought, I mean, again, yeah, no, no flaws.

Lauren Sherman (14:46)

I mean, yeah, I.

Hilary Kerr (14:49)

No complaints.

Lauren Sherman (14:50)

I agree about Rose. I think that she and Kate Young are a really good match. And she's been wearing a lot of color. She wore polka dots to, I think, the art and film gala. Not the art and film gala, the Academy gala. She wore Celine polka dots. She seems to. They. They're just, they're a good match. The same way that Kate and Dakota Johnson are a good match. Yes. There's just certain people that she looks very comfortable in the clothes. They're not. They are, I guess, traditional, but not totally expected. And I thought she looked fab. I personally see, it's interesting. The IO dress is. If I was gonna wear a dress to one of these events, that's the dress I would want. I didn't love the way her hair was styled. I thought it didn't like, it would have been better for her to. For it to be pulled back or something. But I loved that dress and I thought Selena's was pretty, but it didn't feel Chanel enough to me. Or I guess the sort of sprinkle. The spray of whatever that's called at the top was very Matus first collection, like, connected to that. But I, I wanted, I wanted a little bit more fashion from it because he's been doing so much like real fashion on the red carpet. I thought I really liked the Jessie Buckley Dior.

Hilary Kerr (16:18)

Yes. I think that shade was beautiful. I, as always, this is like, so nitpicky and ridiculous, but, like, it's just hard after you've been sitting.

Lauren Sherman (16:29)

Oh, interesting. Yes.

Hilary Kerr (16:30)

It wrinkles. And that's not her fault. That's no one's fault. But, like, that's just the fabric of it all. But that was also. I thought. I mean, it's a fantastic color. I love the detail of the material. Yeah, she looks beautiful in it. That's just always. My weird Virgo instinct always gets a little bit frustrated about that.

Lauren Sherman (16:49)

Yeah, that. Like, thick silk, and when it's sculptural and not, like, totally tight on the body. You're right. The thing for me was the shoes. I would not. I didn't think the shoes. The shoes were kind of threw me off of the texture.

Hilary Kerr (17:04)

I don't know. I liked it because it felt it wasn't expected. It wasn't just some, like, little dainty, simple thing. I. I think you and I are the same of, like, even if it's not 100%, I'd rather something interesting than something completely traditional or expected.

Lauren Sherman (17:21)

Totally. I feel the. Exactly. And I thought the color. The color was just so beautiful. I love that silk. It was just so gorgeous. And I thought it was sort of the best. I also thought it was interesting. They did other people. They did Mia Goth. They did not do Jennifer Lawrence. She was wearing Givenchy, which she's. You know, I'm sure she's contractually obligated to wear Dior a certain amount, but. But not. Not this time. But I thought that they. A lot of these brands do. They sort of just go all out and dress as many people as humanly possible. I thought it was interesting that Dior did not do that this time. There were a few guys. They did Leo. They did Mia Goth. They did a couple other people, but not everyone. And it felt like the focus was really on Jesse. And I think that was smart because as they go up, it'll be interesting to see. Is she gonna wear Dior? Is Rose gonna wear Chanel for. Because they are now, I'd say sort of the two in the running for the best actress for Oscars. We'll see who actually gets nominated in a couple weeks. But, like, is Jesse gonna wear Dior? It makes a lot of sense. She's Irish. She has a connection with Jonathan in that way. Or is. And is Rose gonna wear Chanel? It seems like that's gonna be what ends up happening if we want to make our own Oscars predictions. I love it, but I thought it was. And I also loved. Speaking of Chanel, I love Maya Rudolph's dress. I thought it was super fab and again, something I would want to wear myself, but it was interesting to see. And then obviously, like, the three big red carpet Louis Vuitton, they still had critical mass And I thought some were more successful than others. I really loved Emma Stone's. I thought she looked great. Same.

Hilary Kerr (19:17)

And Emma Stone was interesting because the more I looked at it, the more I liked it.

Lauren Sherman (19:21)

Yes. Yeah. And the other thing, she wore Colleen Allen to the W party, which I mentioned, but she usually doesn't wear young, many younger designers. And I thought she looked really cool. It just both looks were very cool and very appropriate for. I don't think she probably doesn't have, like, big expectations that she's gonna win, but looked. Looked great on in and seems very chill and like, excited about the experience or what have you. Was there anyone who you really didn't like?

Hilary Kerr (19:57)

Who I didn't like? I don't know that I would say didn't like. I have to say I was surprised by Jennifer Lawrence.

Lauren Sherman (20:11)

Oh, yes. Let's discuss it, because it isn't a flat out. This looks bad. But I did have issues with it generally. But. So what was your feel? What was your reaction?

Hilary Kerr (20:23)

I was surprised by it one, because I feel like. Which, by the way, I have really enjoyed what Ryan Hastings is doing with her style for the red carpet. Yeah. I was surprised because we've never seen this level of body from her where we've never seen that level of sheerness. We've never seen that level of really nakedness from her, which I'm not mad at in the slightest. I was surprised by that. I was also. I went back and saw the reference to an Alexander McQueen for Givenchy dress. So there's obviously that archival tie. I thought she looked incredible. The glam was perfect as far as I'm concerned. I was just surprised. It's not anything. We've never seen her in something like this before. And I was a little bit surprised.

Lauren Sherman (21:18)

Yeah. My feeling was I didn't think it looked bad. And I agree. I think Ryan is the thing about Jennifer Lawrence that I know from doing reporting or whatever, she's not. And I think she's developed more of an interest over the years. She's not a fashion girly, if you want to say it that way. She doesn't. She didn't care for a long time. I'm sure she cares more now. And so she moves. She moves stylists a lot. I don't think it's because of. I think it's usually just like a logistical thing. Like, she stopped working with Jamie Mizrahi and started working with Ryan Hastings earlier this year. And I thought that white dress he put her in was amazing. And I was like, okay, he's gonna put her. Cause Jamie was putting her in, like, more pretty 50s style stuff, which I liked a lot of it, and I thought they were a good match. But again, like, does Jennifer. Is this Jennifer Lawrence's style? I don't know. I don't really. Her style is sweatpants and a jacket or whatever, which is cool. But I think the Ryan. The white dress, I was like, oh, he's gonna go more sexy. Like a la. When Rachel Zo was dressing her type thing, and I liked that for her, I didn't think this dress was the right match for her. And I think the Givenchy red carpet under Sarah Burton has generally been awesome. Like, I think she's. They've done a really good job with it. I just. Personally, I didn't think it did, like, her body's great. Sure. I don't. It just didn't feel like it was the right thing for her in particular. And I. I was kind of like, fine. It didn't feel wow. I don't think it, like, she has an amazing body, but it didn't, like, make. Make it look particularly amazing. It just was sort of like, there. And it was an interesting. Obviously people got people talking because it was more exposed, but I didn't feel like it was a good match for her. Essentially, on someone else, it would have had a bigger wow factor.

Hilary Kerr (23:20)

I think it will be interesting because there was the part of me that thought, oh, is this a statement because she has some sexier roles coming up? Is she, you know, sort of seasoning the pan for us to move in that direction? It will be interesting to see if she continues in this line, because doesn't she have some movie that she. She was just talking about where, like, it's a more, like, romantic film coming up? I could be wrong on that, but to me, I was like, oh, is this the first signal that we're going in a different direction in support of some future roles? That would be. That would be interest to see how that plays out.

Lauren Sherman (23:56)

Yeah, that's interesting. Another one that I felt was. I hate to use the word controversial, because I don't think that they're really controversial, but like, the Zoe Kravitz Saint.

Hilary Kerr (24:06)

Laurent, I loved that.

Lauren Sherman (24:09)

I liked it a lot too, because I literally just bought a set.

Hilary Kerr (24:13)

But do I just love her?

Lauren Sherman (24:14)

Well, this is the thing. She has personal style. And Morgan Stewart, who is. Her red carpet commentary is amazing, who had a lot of good points, said. She said, this is something. That dress is something which was. It was a slip dress that Had a bit of a drawstring and had the straps were a different color. She said. Morgan said that it was something Morgan would wear to lunch in St. Bart's it wasn't a dress for a red carpet look. I think Zoe has, again, tons of personal style and wears what she wants to wear. Obviously, she's contractual with Saint Laurent, but, like, she could have worn anything. So she. Clearly, her and Danielle Goldberg chose this. It just was interesting to me because I got a slip dress that is not. It's a little bit different, but similar from Scout a couple weeks ago. And I think because Saint Laurent did these, a lot of the vintage stores are pulling out stuff. And I bought it, like, it wasn't expensive. It looked really nice. I have literally no idea where I would ever wear this dress, and I feel, like, kind of silly that I got it, but when she was wearing it, I was like, okay, now I understand a little bit more why I bought this other dress that has the similar thing of. And I think it's maybe just where the vibe is moving. But. But, yeah, I. I liked it, and I feel like it is something like you would wear something like that.

Hilary Kerr (25:43)

It's relaxed, which I think is sexy. It's not contrived in any way. It just feels like there's an ease to it that I love. But again, if it was on someone else, would I feel this way? Or is it in part because it's on Zoe Kravitz and she is the coolest.

Lauren Sherman (26:02)

She really is.

Hilary Kerr (26:02)

I think that's probably coloring it to some degree, but I loved it. I also just. She didn't look like anyone else. Like, no one else had that same level of sort of, like, relaxed calmness to, like. Everything else looked a lot more effortful, and I think that's something that I appreciated. Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (26:25)

Felt like her.

Hilary Kerr (26:26)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (26:27)

Which is. Which is nice and unusual. Yes. So anyone else? I'm looking at my honorable mentions, so.

Hilary Kerr (26:34)

I love Tessa Thompson, even though, again, this is not necessarily, like, some radical silhouette. But. But I thought the shade of that weird Peridot, unusual green sequin Balenciaga, one of Pierpollo's first. I mean, he had, like, three or four.

Lauren Sherman (26:52)

I thought the Balenciaga looked great.

Hilary Kerr (26:54)

Yeah, I. The fit was immaculate. I loved what Karla did. She had some thoughtful pins on the bag. I loved a little statement from that. I thought the fit was incredible. That color is just a weird color, which makes me. I love a weird. I love a weird.

Lauren Sherman (27:11)

And we're both. And, well, you're a virgo. I'm a Leo Peridot.

Hilary Kerr (27:14)

Yeah, yeah. So I'm always going to be prone to that. But I thought that was a lovely. I mean, Pierre Paulo has always been one of my favorites for red carpet dressing. I just think that he really loves women and you can tell in his designs. And I thought Tessa looked phenomenal.

Lauren Sherman (27:33)

I thought she looked really great too. I thought, is it Laffey who, you know, I barely know this person is. I thought she wore orange. I also loved Chase V. Wonder in Jason. Chase V. Wonder looked amazing. I thought that Elle Fanning looked awesome in Gucci.

Hilary Kerr (27:51)

I agree.

Lauren Sherman (27:51)

And that necklace, it was so good.

Hilary Kerr (27:54)

Oh, my gosh. I wish I had a close up of the detailing on the Gucci. Talk about fit. I mean, that was the most immaculate fit that I have seen in a long time. I wish I could see those flowers a little bit more closely and that I think she was wearing Cartier. I love that we had some significant statement necklaces too. Like bring me diamonds. I will always celebrate that. Give me like a thick statement. I mean, maybe it's the millennial adjacent in me. I love the statement necklace, especially for the red carpet.

Lauren Sherman (28:26)

We love diamonds. This is the year of diamond salute out. So really quickly, I wanted to talk to you on the subject of Gucci. And she looked. Elle looked great at the W Mag thing also and was wearing this little black Gucci dress and it was super fun. She's. I love her. She's just, she is again, a person with personal st. I thought that Kirsten Dun looked great in Tom Ford.

Hilary Kerr (28:55)

Samantha McMillan did a great job with them.

Lauren Sherman (28:56)

She, she, they looked fabulous.

Hilary Kerr (28:59)

And Dakota in her, like, shimmery Vivienne Westwood, I thought they looked complementary together. And you know, there's going to be pictures of them together as sisters and I thought that was nice.

Lauren Sherman (29:09)

I agree. Yes. It was fabulous. So moving on. So before we end our Golden Globes, what are you. What do you predict for what's gonna happen in the next few weeks? Like, what else do you think we're gonna see, given how this sort of set the tone?

Hilary Kerr (29:28)

I mean, I hope we continue to see more color. There were pockets of it moving away from the metallic and the shimmer, but I think too, like, we're going to see clearly. We have an affinity for shimmer, sheen, embellishment, all of that. I think that will continue, but I'm hoping that we continue to see more color because there were. There were some pops of it. But I, that was just my. And I feel like hopefully with both Chanel And Balenciaga, we will continue to see some of that really statement come. It's like fingers crossed.

Lauren Sherman (30:00)

I hope so as well. And it was an interesting fall with all the designer debuts and so much of the red carpet was Runway stuff. Now we're really getting into custom time and see how it all plays out. And the Oscars will happen in the middle of.

Hilary Kerr (30:23)

Paris fashion show season. Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (30:24)

So it's gonna be. It'll be a fun one. Okay. So one thing I wanted to talk to you about that sort of on the subject of Elle and Gucci. Over the weekend, so many of the conversations I had and I saw people posting. Cami Tolez, who was founder of Parade, mentioned it in her stories. I feel like the Demna Gucci, which isn't, you know, he's only done a pre collection that's not in stores. Last fall was sort of not his true debut. His real debut is this February. The bags are seem to be really hitting. We'll see with the first quarter results at caring to see if there's been, you know, a little bit of a bump and I'm sure if there has, they'll be be sure to highlight it. But I'm curious. I feel like you are going to be a Demna Gucci person. And I was just curious because you're a big handbag person, you like a real dressed up outfit, what your experience of it has been and if you have had any inklings that it's gonna be a thing for you in particular.

Hilary Kerr (31:37)

Well, there've been a lot of conversations in both the who, what where and the Marie Claire offices about what the direction of handbags is and where we're going and who is interested. I agree with you. I think that there are lots of interesting things that are going on. I feel more interested in Gucci handbags right now than I have been in quite some time. I think that they are like there's an ease to a lot of them that I appreciate and you're right, I do. I like a bag. I have have no shame in saying that. I honestly feel like people want Gucci to win, that there is a desire for it to land. It's been such an important brand for the world for so long. So I've got my fingers crossed.

Lauren Sherman (32:25)

Yeah, I feel like it was just interesting. It came up at random dinners and things this weekend. And there's. I'd say people in the fashion industry have their favorites and they're rooting for certain designers to really win and hopefully everyone will win so that the Industry keeps growing and all that stuff. But it's been fascinating to see that is the one that feels the most organic.

Hilary Kerr (32:54)

Can I say something around? I also think they're getting the pricing right or in a more correct place than some of the other brands. And I think that ultimate. I think that the brands went way too high for a period of time and that consumers are frustrated by that and feel priced out of things that they could have potentially afforded five years ago. So I also, from just from what I've seen with some of the newer bags, like they're in a. They're still expensive but they're in a more reasonable price point. And I think people are looking for that.

Lauren Sherman (33:33)

I 100%. And it's just a matter of it's not. None of this stuff's going to be cheap. But does it feel like it's worth it? And, and there's something going on about like let's look at the Gucci Gucci medium shoulder bag and see that is 34.50, which is not a steal.

Hilary Kerr (33:53)

But compared to some of the things that you see out there where they start at 4. 4800.

Lauren Sherman (33:58)

Yes, 4. Yeah.

Hilary Kerr (34:00)

Then suddenly that feels a bit more accessible, which again, I can't believe I'm saying accessible. I'm talking about a $3,500 bag. But comparatively, I mean, you know, Chanel and Hermes are like in a price point of their own. I feel like a lot of other brands have started to join that creep. And so this feels like something where it feels perhaps more in tune.

Lauren Sherman (34:24)

Yes. And you know, it's interesting what they did. They did two or they did two different kinds of black leather. One that is like prone to scuffing, which is so fun and like it's soft, naturally glossy leather. And then. And which has been hand tooled to create marks. So it's like pre scuffed. And then there's one that's like a little more textured that feels no scuffs yet, which I love. It's just such a fun way to do it, I think. And you see in the Jackie, there's a $6,800 version in Python. Then there's one that's in crocodile. That's price upon request. But then there's also fabric ones that are 2950.

Hilary Kerr (35:10)

Yep.

Lauren Sherman (35:10)

It just, they know, I mean they got to make it work. And it's an interesting strategy and seems.

Hilary Kerr (35:17)

To acknowledge like people want to enter it differently places.

Lauren Sherman (35:20)

Yes. On the subject of shopping, I wanted to briefly talk to you about this whole Saks Global thing that's happening. Call it a catastrophe, call it an opportunity, whatever you want to say. But by the time this publishes, actually It'll be like 3am on Tuesday. So likely nothing has happened yet. We're recording this on Monday morning. What I've been told from doing some reporting this morning is that the plan is to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on Tuesday morning. They're having a board meeting tonight to talk about the different financing options. Look, there's a chance that they won't file for chapter 11. There's a chance which would allow them to restructure and sort of start from a clean slate. There is always a chance that they will file for Chapter seven and liquidate, which would be really tough for everyone involved, especially the brands that are sold there. But I'm curious, as a consumer and someone who you recommend a lot through your substack but also through the different publications that you run, how do you feel about this? Do you go shopping at department stores ever or do you really shop online? Mostly. How, how will this affect you?

Hilary Kerr (36:41)

So I really love a multi brand retailer. I just like getting the vibe of it. I think it's really important. The same way it's important to go to shows and to see things in real life, I think it's important to actually visit multi brand retailers. That is my preferred way of shopping, generally speaking. That said, I would say 90% of my actual shopping is done online and just because I live on the other side of town from all of the stores. So like, unless I have something going on otherwise I feel the absolute need for multi brand retailers. I love them. I have been devastated to watch the industry change over time. It has been, I mean, truly terrifying to see and also just emotionally sad. You know, I really believe in the power of a multi brand retailer. So I'm very, very much hope that they figure things out because I think that there has to be a way to modernize it and a way to make things work. I just, I really, I really want that to be the truth.

Lauren Sherman (37:47)

Yeah, I think what I wrote on Monday and we'll see. The consolidation of these businesses was inevitable. But the way, but at the same time, when you consolidate declining businesses, it usually and you raise a lot of money, a lot of debt to manage them. It usually doesn't work out because the things that Saks Global promised the investors, the amount of money they were going to make in 2025 was never going to happen. Even if it was like the best year ever for luxury Retail and it wasn't a great year for luxury retail. And I think the reality of it is we can go shopping at standalone stores, we can shop online and there isn't a need for it. So you have to make it like the multi brand stores that I go to, I probably go to on a once every three month basis because I don't have time for that. If I'm looking for something, maybe I'll pop in. But mostly you do that stuff online. It's not that you don't want the experience you still do, but they need to manage expectations of how big these businesses are, will be and what the value is. And so the question for me is, as someone who has covered many of these bankruptcies and closures and seen it happen over and over again, can the people who they put in place to manage these businesses do the tough love of we have to close. Like the speculation right now is they're going to close 70 stores across the two, the three businesses. I mean Bergdorf Goodman's only one store. Obviously it's Daniel bit. Maybe they should even close more. Like do you need to, do you need a Saks Fifth Avenue and a Neiman Marcus in one mall? Probably not. Even if they claim, a lot of times they claim the customer is not overlapping. I don't, I think that's probably not true. And also, even if it is, you can bring them together and then invest more in one store, perhaps smaller footprint. I think you see this at every level. Even the indie boutiques that if they go from one or two stores and then they suddenly have seven cause they get an investor that always ends up failing. It's just a different business than it was and it has been changing since the 1980s. And so I hope that what comes out of this is something that makes the experience more sense. Yeah. And more fun for all of us. Like I think the Nordstrom family understand this and, and they are very lucky that they found a financial partner that let them take the company private and figure this out privately. And it's not, you know, some sort of treacherous debt. It's. It's an investor who is in the, in the retail business. So, so I, I think that there's a lot of opportunity for them and Bloomingdale's also to create these experiences. But, but look, do we need the other big question, and this is the tough love. Does Saks Fifth Avenue need to exist? Like should they close all the Saks Fifth Avenues and only have Neiman Marcus and Bergdorf? I don't know. The answer to that. But they're going to have to think about it, because we all want a reason to go to these places. And right now, they're making it hard for us to have a reason. Because the reason cannot be need or thinking it's need. It needs to be desire and. And desire to have new experiences and all that. And right now, they sort of. I was talking to someone this morning, said they just lost sight of the customer. And I said, yeah, because their goal was to make more money each quarter, and their goal needs to be to.

Hilary Kerr (41:32)

Please surprise and delight.

Lauren Sherman (41:34)

Yes. So I hope it. I hope that by the time people listen to this, they file for chapter 11 and get the clean slate and we're not in liquidation mode, because that's not gonna be fun.

Hilary Kerr (41:45)

No, not at all.

Lauren Sherman (41:46)

Hilary, anything else on your agenda this month?

Hilary Kerr (41:49)

No, I'm just glad that it's awards season.

Lauren Sherman (41:53)

I am, too. It's gonna be fun.

Hilary Kerr (41:55)

I find it unhinged and delightful, and I love seeing all of the creativity and, you know, I feel like there's always something intriguing that comes out of it. I look forward to the Grammys, which are the weirdest of them all. I'm just. I love award season.

Lauren Sherman (42:13)

Can't wait for the Grammys.

Hilary Kerr (42:14)

You never. That's the one where you're like, I don't know what is happening, but it is a feast. It is a feast on a number of levels.

Lauren Sherman (42:21)

It was great to see you, as always. Thank you for your words of wisdom. Always. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producer, Puck, co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.