Red Hot & Behind the Seams

Summary

---

Fashion People — “Red Hot & Behind the Seams”

Date: November 28, 2025
Host: Lauren Sherman
Guests:

• Ruth E. Carter (“Sinners”)
• Paul Tazewell (“Wicked: For Good”)
• Malgosia Terzanska (“Hamnet”)
• Kate Holly (“Frankenstein”)

---

Overview

In this special Oscars-edition episode, Lauren Sherman welcomes four top costume designers from this year’s most buzzed-about films — “Wicked: For Good,” “Hamnet,” “Frankenstein,” and “Sinners.” The conversation dives into the artistry, process, and collaboration that define their work, with a surprisingly passionate focus on one color: red. They discuss historical references, balancing period accuracy with cinematic fantasy, director-actor collaboration, and personal highlights from their films.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Significance of Red in Costume Design

Main Theme:
The color red emerged as a “common denominator” across all four films — symbolizing everything from life, passion, fire, and blood, to grounding the viewer’s eye within the cinematic frame.

• Ruth E. Carter (06:42): “I knew you were going to ask that [about red]. Because it seems to be the common denominator.”
• Paul Tazewell (07:26, 08:18): Describes how red is reserved for narrative impact in “Wicked,” especially for the poppies and Mrs. Throp: “I reserved using it because I wanted for the poppies to resonate, you know, so Mrs. Throp is red… the poppies on the wizard's dressing gown are red, but there's not a whole lot more that is red.”
• Malgosia Terzanska (08:19): “For us, it was the living blood, the living pumping blood, and then lack of that life in my movie. But I think it's the contrast of, like, the border between life and death, you know, in this, like, vibrant, vibrant red.”
• Ruth E. Carter (08:42): “It also is a grounding color. It directs your eye. It gives composition. When you see the masters and you see their paintings, you see their use of red, and they're very intentional about where red lands… it adds a nice balance to the composition, directs your eye.”

Expanding the Palette: Blue, Green, and Contrast

Lauren notes that both “Hamnet” and “Frankenstein” feature strong blues and greens contrasting with red, against more muted backdrops.

• Malgosia Terzanska (09:53): “For me it was…to balance out this powerhouse of a woman. But also I loved his connection to water… so it kind of came in that way. And also did a nice yin and yang with her redness.”
• Kate Holly (10:30): “Greens, particularly in Elizabeth’s world, are opposite on the color wheel to the reds… [in Frankenstein] natural world was inspiration, but it took on a sort of radioactive quality… red always heightens all of those colors.”

Navigating Historical References and Fantasy

The challenge: How closely should designers adhere to historical clothing, particularly when the narrative leans into fantasy or established IP?

• Ruth E. Carter (13:11): “Storytelling gives you the freedom to…push the boundaries with whether it’s your color palette or whether it’s the choices… I don’t think any of us want to go outside of the period. I think it’s important to keep the context and keep the audience engaged in the time and place.”
• Paul Tazewell (13:55): “What I was hoping [with Wicked]…was to embrace all of the culture of the Wizard of Oz characters… so that then the audience could relate…in a modern way. So I’m using period as a visceral touchstone… Like Elphaba is based on Victoriana mourning clothing, and then translated into a fantasy point of view. Glinda is Dior, 1950s Audrey Hepburn… and, yes, suggestive of Billy Burke as Glinda in 1939.”

Adapting Books and Non-Existing Historical Images

• Kate Holly (18:17): Draws inspiration from Mary Shelley's novel, not just film adaptations: “I read the novel before attacking this piece with Guillermo… The sense of melancholy, great loneliness, the layers of memories through the creature.”
• Malgosia Terzanska (20:21): On adapting “Hamnet”: “We have these historical figures, but what kind of freed me was Chloe saying, we are not trying to do a museum piece… The images we have of Shakespeare were created after his death. So… it was an adaptation of sorts anyway. So I kind of, you know, that was—it made it easier to just start from scratch and kind of stick. Start from the interiority of those characters and build them from the inside out.”

Relationship Dynamics: Directors and Actors

Collaboration is essential, and the dynamic between directors, design teams, and actors can be the secret ingredient.

• Malgosia Terzanska (23:53): “That was my first time with everyone on this movie and I wanted it to be forever… It just felt like we were like a mushroom, that we were, like, kind of growing together and understanding the world together. And it was so organic and so beautiful…”

• Ruth E. Carter (24:29): “Relationships are important to the success of the creative process. So it starts at the top. And for us, Ryan was such a family man… The actors really trusted him and therefore…The trust…creates an open relationship for creativity to flow.”

• Paul Tazewell (25:58): Describes the collaborative “War Room” on Wicked: “It was a shared space where we had costume sketches lining a whole side… [It] became a safe space to offer up ideas… folding [the actors] into what my design was… because, you know, I always say that, you know, I can't design in a vacuum. And also I'm relying on these actors to bring my work to life.”

• Kate Holly (27:52): On collaboration with Guillermo del Toro: “Guillermo was very clear on the vision, but it was always an open door. All of us could have access to him… He shared with us his edit…And he often refers to us as his legs of his table. It's a big table, I think, and we're all his lieutenants…”

Personal Highlights—The “Hero” Pieces

Each designer shares the costume or look they're proudest of from their current film.

• Ruth E. Carter (31:27): “The Zwali dancer in the surrealistic montage. I felt like when I saw the film, he kind of hypnotized me… it represents, you know, how Africa and movement and dance all mixed with the blues kind of influenced, you know, the origin of the blues was magical for me.”
• Malgosia Terzanska (32:12): “For me, it's the ghost. The ghost outfit… just made of linen and clay. And it was the simplest solution. But my favorite favorite one.”
• Paul Tazewell (32:45): “Elphaba in her wake of Witch of the west costume. I mean, she's a badass, and Cynthia is so—I mean, she completely wears that costume. So I love that.”
• Kate Holly (32:59): Speaking of the “cell outfit” for Elizabeth and overall process: “The process with Oscar and, you know, watching his performance and the play that happened for me, that was a rewarding experience… For me, it's the whole and the experience of the crew and, you know, I don't know. It's very hard.”

Burnout and Humor: “Never Want to See Again”

• Lauren Sherman (33:39): “Are there things that you will never want to see again?”
• Kate Holly (33:42): (Deadpan) “Yeah. Red.”
• Lauren Sherman (33:46): “Red is everywhere.”

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

Color as Storytelling:

• “Red also is a grounding color. It directs your eye. It gives composition. When you see the masters and you see their paintings, you see their use of red, and they're very intentional about where red lands.”
  — Ruth E. Carter (08:42)

On Collaboration:

• “I can't design in a vacuum. And also I'm relying on these actors to bring my work to life. So they have to buy into it.”
  — Paul Tazewell (25:58)

Letting Go of Historical Literalism:

• “The images that we have of Shakespeare were created after his death. So it was an adaptation of sorts anyway. So I kind of…started from the interiority of those characters and built them from the inside out.”
  — Malgosia Terzanska (20:31)

The Workroom as Creative Sanctuary:

• “We had what we called the…‘war room,’ which was our design space…It became a safe space to offer up ideas, to throw things around, to really, you know, understand what it was that we were trying to achieve.”
  — Paul Tazewell (25:58)

Humor on Overused Trends:

• “Are there things that you will never want to see again?”
  “Yeah. Red.”
  — Lauren Sherman & Kate Holly (33:39-33:42)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening Introductions & Guest Panel (05:54-06:32)
• Discussion of Red’s Importance (06:38-09:22)
• Color Contrast and Symbolism (09:22-11:23)
• Approaches to Historical/Fantasy Costume (12:34-16:38)
• Adapting Literature and Non-Historical Characters (18:09-21:49)
• Director & Actor Collaboration Stories (23:37-27:52)
• Favorite ‘Hero’ Pieces (31:15-32:59)
• Burnout and Color Trends (33:39-33:46)

---

Closing

This episode provides a rare, behind-the-scenes look into the layered artistry of costume design for film — from the weight of history and symbolism of color to the deeply collaborative environments that shape what ends up onscreen. It's a lively, intimate, and revealing discussion for anyone invested in the meaning behind what movie characters wear, and the fashion people who dream up those worlds.

Transcript

[Lauren Sherman]

Hey everyone, Lauren here. You know that moment when advertising stops.

Feeling like a guessing game and becomes.

Something that actually works for your brand. That's what Amazon Ads full funnel approach feels like for fashion marketers. Here's what caught my attention. Their AI doesn't just run your campaigns using trillions of signals. It understands your brand, amplifies your reach, drives relevance, selects your placements and even generates your creative. That and it optimizes automatically across the entire customer journey. No more managing 50 different systems or wondering if your awareness investments are talking to your conversion strategy. And here is the thing. With over 300 million plus AD supported audiences in the US and 90% of fashion audiences already engaging with Amazon ads, you're not just reaching people, you're reaching people who are ready to discover and build buy. It's like having a marketing team that never sleeps and gets smarter every day. Amazon Ads where fashion meets Full Funnel intelligence. Head to advertising.Amazon.com to learn more.

[Podcast Host or Narrator]

Hey fashion people. This week I am sharing something very special. It's a new series from one of my favorite podcasts, IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. On imo's special series the Look, Michelle Obama opens up for the first first time about her journey and legacy as a fashion icon in and beyond the White House. Through a series of candid, intimate conversations with her longtime beauty collaborators, fashion insiders and legendary women including Jane Fonda, Nina Garcia, Bethann Hardison, Elaine Welteroth, Jenna Lyons, among others, she reveals how she and her team leverage the scrutiny of her public image to boldly celebrates self expression, inclusion and cultural impact. A companion to her book, the look celebrates an extraordinary legacy of authenticity and representation that continues to permeate culture, politics and fashion today. In this episode, Project Runway host and Editor in Chief of Elle, Nina Garcia guides a conversation between Michelle Obama, an African American literature professor who Farah Jasmine Griffin. They dive into the making of Michelle Obama as a defining force in style what she wore growing up in the south side of Chicago, how she evolved herself, presentation in college, and how she stepped into her public image on the national stage as the first Black First Lady. You can hear the look series by searching for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Lauren Sherman]

Foreign. Welcome to Fashion People.

I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion.

And Beauty Memo line sheet and today with me on the show are the costume designers from four of the most important movies of the season, Wicked for Good's Paul Tazewell, Hamnet's Magosia Terzanska, Frankenstein's Kate Holly and Sinner's Ruth E. Carter. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world, and much more. If you're interested listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go to Puck News Fashion People to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday everyone, and Happy Thanksgiving. I'm recording this very early in the week because of the holiday. If there's breaking news, maybe I'll change this, but probably not because we all need a day off. Speaking of Line Sheet was lights out yesterday. I've never done that before on Thanksgiving. Very exciting. I'm enjoying my time off, sort of. I'm definitely enjoying my time in Northern California. I love dressing up for no other reason than dressing up and eating stuffing. It's really good. But now we are back and Sarah Shapiro has organized Line Sheets Annual Guide to Gift Guides so here's the thing about gift guides. They're very difficult to get right. Most people don't get them right. Most people are lazy. It's a challenge, it's a skill, and I highly recommend using our list as sort of a primary text. Pros Gift Guide Pros that I really love include my friends Claire and Erica, who no longer make gift guides, but also adjacent to them their publicist, Caitlin Phillips. Everybody's she she's the world's publicist. She has an entire substack called Gift Guide. She is really good at it. As good of a writer and editor as she is a publicist. It's pretty miraculous. I love all the air mail gift guides and generally our Puck gift guides are great. Our guide to mirth and merriment is very fun. I recommended the Eastern Gate, an incredibly good Polish spy thriller that if you love the Bureau de Legion, you will love this. Please don't make fun of my French accent and check all that out and my many scoops by signing up for Puck. I really do love Thanksgiving and I hope you enjoy this talk with this year's top costume designers took place a few weeks ago in LA at the Oscars edition of Puck's Stories of the.

[Podcast Host or Narrator]

Season event and they were amazing.

[Lauren Sherman]

One of them is definitely gonna win.

[Podcast Host or Narrator]

I hope you have a great time listening.

[Lauren Sherman]

Please join me in welcoming Malgosia Terzanska.

Ruth E. Carter, Paul Tazewell and Kate.

Holley to the stage. Thank you all so much for being here.

[Advertisement Voice]

Hello.

[Lauren Sherman]

I feel like you all could just have a discussion and me not even interrupt.

So the first thing I want to talk about is the color red.

[Ruth E. Carter]

I knew you were going to ask that.

[Lauren Sherman]

Did you really? Why did you think that?

[Ruth E. Carter]

Because it seems to be the common denominator.

[Lauren Sherman]

It really is.

And it also.

I just rewatched in the Mood for Love, and obviously it's such a big, important costume movie, and that color is important, but it feels like, is it the most important color in costuming? And why do you all think I can call on you, but also feel free to jump in? Why do you all think it was the common denominator in your films this year?

[Kate Holly]

It's a hungry color. Guillermo would say it's all about what? Red.

[Paul Tazewell]

I love red in period. Like, how you use it in the 50s and how you use it in the 30s is just really. I don't know, that's how I find that. I tend to use it in west side Story. I used it a lot in Wicked. I reserved using it because I want. Wanted for the poppies to resonate, you know, so Mrs. Throp is red. The poppies on the wizard's dressing gown are red, but there's not a whole lot more that is red. Red.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, it's also the ruby slippers. Obviously, they're not ruby, but it's an interesting that it is still an important color, even if it's not there.

[Paul Tazewell]

Yeah.

[Malgosia Terzanska]

And then for us, it was the, like, living blood, the living pumping blood, and then lack of that life in my movie. But I think it's the contrast of, like, the border between life and death, you know, in this, like, vibrant, vibrant red.

[Kate Holly]

Yeah.

[Ruth E. Carter]

It also is a grounding color. It directs your eye. It gives composition. When you see the masters and you see their paintings, you see their use of red, and they're very intentional about where red lands. And, you know, I think, you know, for all of the beautiful work that's here today amongst these costume designers, red was used very intentionally. I mean, it's the color of passion, it's the color of fire, it's the color of blood. But it also grounds a piece. It adds a nice balance to the composition, directs your eye.

[Lauren Sherman]

For Kate and Mel Ghosha in particular, I noticed that there were some really strong Colors, red being one, but also blue and green against a more faded background. Ruth and Paul, I feel like it's a little different for you all and I promise this isn't going to just be like a color history thing, but this is what I'm interested in. But curious how you all balance that in because there were the red dresses in both of your films that were so important.

[Malgosia Terzanska]

Well, the blue and the green. For me it was, yes, to balance out the main character, or they are both main characters, but to balance out this powerhouse of a woman. But also I loved his connection to water. His connection or Will's connection to the river. And we see him, like, processing his emotions and his grief a few times in the movie by either swimming or like having a dialogue with the water. And so it kind of came in that way. And also did a nice yin and yang with her redness.

[Kate Holly]

Yeah, we sort of drew on the greens, and particularly in Elizabeth's world, they're opposite on the color wheel to the reds. And Victor's world, again, we went to the natural world as inspiration, but it took on a sort of radioactive quality. You know, it was representative iridescence of beetles and nature at its most intense and sort of visceral. So it's interesting that we both came from a natural place, but in different kinds of elevation. And red always heightens all of those colors. You know, we had sort of different kinds of reds which made the, you know, and the same with the green. So it's all sort of the levels of color and the values of the colours that you have that, you know, heighten everything that we use. I'd say the contrast in our color palettes is very different, but they're still from the same world.

[Lauren Sherman]

Hey, everyone. Lauren here. You know that moment when advertising stops.

Feeling like a guessing game and becomes.

Something that actually works for your brand? That's what Amazon ads full funnel approach feels like for fashion marketers. Here's what caught my attention. Their AI doesn't just run your campaigns using trillions of signals. It understands your brand, amplifies your reach, drives relevance, selects your placements and even generates your creative. Then it optimizes automatically across the entire customer journey. No more managing 50 different systems or wondering if your awareness investments are talking to your conversion strategy. And here is the thing. With over 300 million plus AD supported audiences in the US and 90% of fashion audiences already engaging with Amazon ads, you're not just reaching people, you're reaching people who are ready to discover and buy, buy. It's like Having a marketing team that never sleeps and gets smarter every day. Amazon Ads, where fashion meets full funnel intelligence. Head to advertising.Amazon.com to learn more.

You all are kind of coming at this. Obviously, Wicked is not technically like a store, is not a period film, but there is, like, a history there. How much are you all looking at the historical clothing and actually using that directly versus looking at it and sort of brushing it away and starting from another. Because you all were dealing with period pieces, in a sense, but also things that have a lot of IP or are brand new in their own world as well.

[Ruth E. Carter]

Well, I think that we all, like, push the boundaries that storytelling gives you the freedom to do that. Ryan Coogler builds a world. He allows you to, you know, bring in the artistry into that world. But also the storytelling aspect of it allows you to sort of push the boundaries with whether it's your color palette or whether it's the choices that you made, the backstory story for your characters. And all of that, you know, adds to, like, the period ness of it all. But I don't think any of us want to go outside of the period. I think it's important to keep the context going and keep the audience engaged in the time and place.

[Paul Tazewell]

What was tricky about Wicked is, as you said, I mean, it is. It's a fantasy. What I was hoping that the design would do is to embrace all of the culture of the wizard of Oz characters through the wizard of Oz and the Wiz and Wicked and, you know, just all the iterations that we've seen and honor all of that world so that then the audience could relate to, engage with our films in kind of a modern way. So I'm using period as a visceral touchstone or an emotional touchstone. Like Elphaba is based on Victoriana, mourning, clothing, and then translated into a fantasy point of view. Glinda is Dior, 1950s Audrey Hepburn that is then made into, you know, a fantasy character. So it's, you know, and, yes, suggestive of Billy Burke in. As glinda in the 1939 film. You know, even Elphaba's close that this silhouette was from the 1939 film, but that it was translated into. Into this power figure. So I'm definitely researching and thinking about silhouette as it relates to specific periods and then making use of that collective relationship to the period in order to say something about the characters.

[Lauren Sherman]

I also felt that your work in particular in this movie felt very connected to modern fashion as well. Both of their looks felt of the time Right. So that's a tricky balance of trying to honor all of those different things and then also make it feel like it could be today as well.

[Paul Tazewell]

Well, I mean, and in line with that, you know, it's like so many Hollywood musicals. You know, even the wizard of Oz, where it very much looks like a 1930s film. You know, it's the silhouettes. They're using what. They're. What their. You know, their real time is 1930s. You know, if you look at what is hello, Dolly, it feels very 70s, even though it's turn of the century. Yeah, yeah. So I think that it's just in the spirit of Hollywood musicals as well.

[Lauren Sherman]

Is the process to do this longer if you're dealing with something that's new, a new story? So the three of you were all working off of something. Kate, A novel. So not as obviously, Mel got many, many iterations. But, Ruth, for you, it was a completely new story. You've worked with Ryan Coogler many times, but do you feel like you were more involved in this because it was entirely new?

[Ruth E. Carter]

I feel very connected to African American history. And I think that, you know, I actually forgot that we were telling a story about vampires. Actually. I really wanted to tell the story of the Great Migration and the Mississippi Delta and the blues, and I really focused on the people during that time and what actually happened in the Delta and how they survived and how they made something out of nothing. I mean, I love that story. And, yes, it was an original script. It really was a collaboration with Ryan and Autumn, you know, to just, you know, keep the dialogue going about, like, you know, how we transition from this American story to this horror story. And. Yeah, and so I just really kept the people. I just really. I really got into the people and the details of how they lived and where they were living and how they evolved.

[Lauren Sherman]

Kate, bringing a novel to life that hasn't been realized on screen before, what was that experience like with Chloe?

[Kate Holly]

Well, there's been a few iterations. If you look at the 1930s Frankenstein, there are iterations out there. Of course, I didn't have that world. You talk to Mike and Jacob and Guillermo, and all they talk about is James Whale and the bolts in the neck. And I wasn't familiar with that interpretation. I was back in the world of Mary Shelley and the Romanticism. But those elements. I read the novel before attacking this piece with Guillermo, and there were themes that had come through from the novel into the script, but of course, it's through Guillermo's viewpoint, his point of view. So Then the imagery, particularly being Mexican religion, mythology, but again, bound by nature, which you see in the novel, and also responding to the script, there's still the qualities that are there. The sense of melancholy, great loneliness, the layers of memories through the creature, but also the rest of the storytelling from Victor's point of view and from the creature's point of view. And so a lot of the response was about creating the mood of what Guillermo wrote, which was also linked us to the novel. So a lot of it was about creating that sense of memory and using, although we had the historical silhouette, using that as a canvas for all these other themes that led the visual dialogue. And, of course, that's within collaboration with everybody else, what Tamara was doing with the set, because we all work so closely, like I'm sure everybody does here in their departments, you can't be alone in this world. You have to answer to an overall picture, and it's not complete just with your character. So all those themes were answered throughout every department.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. And I met Malgosia Hamnet. I didn't take my beta blocker. Sorry, everybody.

Yes.

So, Kate Frankenstein. Malgotia Hamnet.

Apologies.

So for you, you were doing a similar thing, taking something from an already known. But yours had never come to life before, so.

[Kate Holly]

Yeah.

[Malgosia Terzanska]

And what freed me, obviously, we have these historical figures, but what kind of freed me was a Chloe saying, we are not trying to do a museum piece.

[Kate Holly]

Thank you.

[Malgosia Terzanska]

And also the fact that the images that we have of Shakespeare were created after his death. So it was an adaptation of sorts anyway. So I kind of, you know, that was. It made it easier to just start from scratch and kind of stick. Start from the interiority of those characters and build them from the inside out. We did keep the earring, and that's about it. And then researching the period, I wanted to make sure that I am literate in it and that I know when I'm straying away from it. But because there's so many incredible Elizabethan details and objects and shapes and so on, what we did is we took things like slashing, the pinking of fabrics, and we used them kind of as an emotional tool, showing especially Will's emotional progression through the movie, and just little bits and bobs like that, that kind of made sense for our particular story. But I wanted to make sure that it's staying true to Chloe's vision of just portraying these two incredible people and their first, their incredible love story, and then gradually them going through the tragedy and somehow finding a way towards each.

[Kate Holly]

Other in the end.

[Advertisement Voice]

At Optum, we're transforming the pharmacy system, bringing real time, pricing, transparency, and saving consumers over a billion dollars last year. We serve 62 million Americans not just with medicine, but with guidance, support and care tailored to every unique need. Because at Optum, we understand behind every prescription is a person. Visit optum.com redefine Rx to see how we are redefining pharmacy care for good.

[Lauren Sherman]

Do you ever stop and think about how wild it is that you spend so much on rent every month and get absolutely nothing back for it? Built is the loyalty program for renters that rewards you for your biggest monthly expense. Rent. You pay your rent through BILT and earn points every month. Points you can redeem towards flights, hotels, Lyft rides, Amazon.com purchases, fitness classes, and so much more. There are even exclusive perks from more than 45,000 local merchants. So every time you grab coffee, order dinner, or shop nearby, you're earning Built points on top of your usual cards rewards. Personally, I'd use it to take more boutique fitness classes. I especially love the ones with infrared, sauna, weights, and just way too much time. I need to chill out on the exercise. It's finally a way to make Rent feel a little less painful and a lot more rewarding. Join the loyalty program for [e-mail] fashion that's J O I N B I L T.com fashion make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you.

You all have worked with the people that you worked with on these movies before. How important is it the relationship with the director versus the relationship with the actors? And how is that different?

[Malgosia Terzanska]

So actually, that was my first time with everyone on this movie and I wanted to be forever because they were unbelievable. And, you know, Jesse and Paul, just outstanding, outstanding people. But the whole team. Fiona Crombie, the production designer, and Wuka Jaal, the dp. It just felt like we were like a mushroom, that we were like kind of growing together and understanding the world together. And it was so organic and so beautiful that I've never had an experience that was that organic and that strong. So super grateful for it.

[Ruth E. Carter]

Yeah. And I think relationships are important to the success of the creative process. So it starts at the top. And for us, Ryan was such a family man and such a good person. He had that effect on everyone. And so he was always immersing us with each other. And, you know, Hannah Beachler is the production designer and Autumn and all of us shared a lot, but he was very interested, you know, and that I Think creates an open relationship for creativity can flow. And so we were like a family. The actors really trusted him and therefore, you know, his guidance and his notes to us, you know, came with, you know, the trust of auteur. So I think that that's a really key element to making maybe not always the best film, but it's a key element to good relationships and good, good film building, you know, storytelling.

[Paul Tazewell]

I would agree. I mean, with Ruth, I mean. Exactly. John set a tone for our production like no other, really, you know.

[Lauren Sherman]

Where did you map out everything for both films at the same time?

[Paul Tazewell]

We had what we called the. Lovingly called the War room, which was our design space that was. And it was a shared space where we had costume sketches lining a whole side of this four sided room. Nathan had all of his on the other three and then the tables in the center were. They had the models for all the different scenes because we were building so much because we were all about world building, building. So that kind of sandbox was really, you know, it was rare for me and a privilege to be invited into that because it became a safe space to offer up ideas, to throw things around, to really, you know, understand what it was that we were trying to achieve. And then we would invite producers in and, you know, and present whatever it was. And then with the actors, I mean, that it was imperative, but also integral to my process, folding them into what my design was, you know, because, you know, I always say that, you know, I can't design in a vacuum. And also I'm relying on, on these actors to bring my work to life. So they have to buy into it. In order for it to be successful, we have to be able to have a dialogue. And so much came from them being cast in those roles and what they brought to their performances that it was necessary that I follow suit and really sculpt around them.

[Lauren Sherman]

Kate, what about you and Guillermo?

[Kate Holly]

Well, I think there's very similar experiences that link us all. It's a process. I mean, Guillermo was very clear on the vision, but it was always an open door. All of us could have access to him. Take as much time as you like in the prep and then when the train leaves the station, you'd better be on it. But you know, the door was always open on set. And this was the first time I'd experienced this with Guillermo. He'd come every day and we'd be by the monitor. We, we'd have a meeting so everyone knew what the plan was or if things changed. But also he shared with Us, his edit. We were actually allowed to go and sit in the editing suite and see what he'd cut. And that's a really. I've never had that happen to me before. And you can start to see the shape of things that are happening, how he and Dan are framing the pictures, the language of that. You understand what your performers are doing to be able to see that, especially when you're rushing back to build the next thing or next bunch of things. So it was really crucial to do that. And he often refers to us as his legs of his table. It's a big table, I think, and we're all his lieutenants. I'm speaking of Tamara and Dan and myself and Mike. So we're all informed, but we all share that between us as well. So whatever we share with Guillermo, we make sure our colleagues understand that as well. And then there's just the normal. You know, I put everything like Paul up in my workroom. I have fabric samples. I put everything that Tamara is doing. Dan came over and set up a lighting test so that we could work with candlelight and develop all our textiles and patterns. But also, it meant that my entire crew understood the direction and shape and vision of what Guillermo was doing. And that meant they were then informed when we were making decisions that would support everything that was happening. And Guillermo would come through the workroom when he could and stop at the table, as he particularly loved stopping at Lorene's table, our milliner and would love the craft of what people were doing. And that goes a long way in a big production. So I think it's very collaborative. He's definitely leading the vision, but we're all allowed to participate in that. And. And the same with the actors, actually. It was a big lesson in ego, too. We had first fittings, and I'm used to having a bit of private space. We'll do the measuring. And it's all very formal, but no. Gemma came charging in. Oscar's children came in, the lighting, the cameraman. There was hair and makeup. There was Oscar's family in its entirety. And I went, oh, this is a grounding thing. This is like, let's open the play box and, you know, get off the. Off your high spot for a bit. And it was a great lesson. And, you know, talking about how the actors, developing the work with them, you know, Jacob came in cold, very, you know, little time. And Mike had this huge burden of doing all this work within nine weeks. But watching how. What they bring to it. There's what they bring to it. As themselves, as a person, then their ideas of an actor might be different from mine. And then there's the alchemy with director and everybody together. The discovery of movement and physicality. I often work from the inside out. You know, I don't start with an external sketch. We're doing gestures and looking at movement and supporting that and being prepared to sort of give up your lollies for the sake of a better story. You know, it was a big lesson.

[Lauren Sherman]

In that we don't have much more time.

But I am curious.

Is there, like, one hero look or piece from each of these films that you feel like you're the most proud of or that it sort of represents everything that you worked on? Ruth, maybe we can start with you.

[Ruth E. Carter]

Oh, why me first?

[Lauren Sherman]

Because I wanted to mix it up.

And not go down the aisle thing.

[Ruth E. Carter]

I love it all. I love it all but the Zwali dancer in the surrealistic montage. I felt like when I saw the film, he kind of hypnotized me. The way that they move their feet and they have this mask, and it represents, you know, how Africa and movement and dance all mixed with the blues kind of influenced, you know, the origin of the blues was magical for me. And that became my favorite Mount Gosha, what about you?

[Malgosia Terzanska]

For me, it's the ghost. The ghost outfit. And it was partially because it was the last one, and I had no idea what it was going to be. I kept pushing it away, and it was like the last week of shooting, and then it came together kind of in a magical way. And it's my favorite. It's just. And it's crumbling like hell, but it's just made of linen and clay. And it was the simplest solution. But my favorite favorite one, Paul, it's.

[Paul Tazewell]

Elphaba in her wake of Witch of the west costume. I mean, she's a badass, and Cynthia is so. I mean, she completely wears that costume. So I love that.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay.

[Kate Holly]

I thought I had an answer. And then Guillermo decided it was something else, you know, he agreed on. This was my. He likes the cell outfit for Elizabeth. And so I actually like, you know, Victor. I thought, you know, the. The process with Oscar. I mean, all of them were great, but the process with Oscar and, you know, watching his performance and the play that happened for me, that was a rewarding experience. But you learn to love each of them. And then it's like you say goodbye to your children and you fall out of love with them. Not your children, but, you know, the costume. And as the next one comes, hurtling towards you. So it's all a kind of blur. But, you know, you come out of it and you sort of see it. For me, it's the whole and the experience of the crew and, you know, I don't know. It's very hard.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, are there things that you will never want to see again?

[Kate Holly]

Yeah. Red.

[Lauren Sherman]

Red is everywhere.

Thank you all so much.

[Kate Holly]

Thank you.

[Lauren Sherman]

Thank you.

Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.

[Advertisement Voice]

You know how so many wines feel the same this Black Friday Psalmsation is all about breaking from the bland. Psalmsation team of expert sommeliers have curated rare and remarkable wines, bottles you won't find on most shelves made by independent winemakers with real stories behind them. It's not just wine delivery. It's like being personally guided by an expert through small production wines you'll actually want to share with the people in your life. Right now, psalmsation is offering 20% off select wines plus complimentary ground shipping for Black Friday. Whether you're gifting or restocking your cellar, this is the time to discover something new and extraordinary. Join the table of the bold. Shop their [e-mail] fashionpeople that's S O M M S A-T-I-O-N.com fashionpeople exclusions may apply.