Simone Rocha’s Ascendance and the Alaïa Effect

Summary

Podcast Summary: Fashion People — "Simone Rocha’s Ascendance and the Alaïa Effect"
Host: Lauren Sherman
Guest: Leah Chernikov (Harper’s Bazaar Executive Editor)
Date: September 23, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Lauren Sherman is joined by Leah Chernikov to discuss London Fashion Week highlights, what’s ahead in Milan, current fashion trends (notably Simone Rocha’s rise and the unmistakable “Alaïa effect”), the business of aging gracefully in the public eye, and the much-debated balloon pants trend. The conversation weaves personal anecdotes, industry analysis, and lively commentary, making this a must-listen for anyone wanting an insider’s take on the fashion world’s undercurrents.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. London Fashion Week: Standouts and Impressions

[07:20 - 10:34]

• Simone Rocha’s Consistency and Appeal
  • Leah is impressed by the beauty and drama of Simone Rocha's collection:

    "I always love Simone Rocha...her collection looked beautiful, as always." [07:20, Leah]

  • Lauren highlights Rocha’s consistent professionalism and questions why she hasn't been scooped up by a bigger house:

    “There’s like a real level of talent and professionalism there…there’s consistency…it always hits." [09:02, Lauren]

• Richard Quinn’s Theatricality
  • His show was described as “really dramatic and fun," featuring bold choices and Naomi Campbell opening the show:

    "I loved all the black velvet. I thought the casting…was just really spot on…with him it feels very real." [10:10, Lauren]

• Party Scene
  • The exclusive Chiltern Firehouse party reopens briefly with an A-list crowd (Kate Moss & Madonna), reflecting a shift to “fewer, better parties."

    "That is a party I'd actually want to go to." [11:14, Lauren]

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2. Milan Fashion Week: Anticipation and Industry Buzz

[12:42 - 19:48]

• Debuts and Industry Movement
  • Milan features a “baker’s dozen” of new designers; anticipation for Bottega Veneta, Jill Sander, and more.
• Simone Bellati and Bally
  • Bally’s limited distribution created “buzz” among fashion insiders:

    "The one sort of uniting new thing that obviously people are always buying...but everybody went to Bally multiple times..." [14:33, Lauren]

• Jil Sander, Louise Trotter, and Campaigns with Depth
  • Praises abound for Louise Trotter’s thoughtful direction at Bottega Veneta, especially her campaign featuring cultural figures like Zadie Smith:

    “She’s just a smart person...a grown up woman who knows what she’s doing and takes responsibility for herself.” [17:11, Lauren]

  • Leah applauds inclusion and intentional casting:

    "The cast that she featured…says a lot about how she's thinking about the brand…really literary, really artistic." [19:02, Leah]

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3. The Business of Aging Gracefully: Celebrity, Transformations & Cultural Pressure

[21:34 - 31:49]

• Katherine LaNasa, Grant Show, and Hollywood Aging
  • Their appearance stirs social media discussion on “aging gracefully” as they look like their younger selves but with visible, “good” wrinkles.

    "What I think is interesting about this couple...their faces look like they did 20 years ago..." [22:18, Lauren] "There are good wrinkles…and wrinkles people don’t want…crow’s feet can feel very desirable..." [26:18, Leah]

  • Considers what cosmetic procedures celebs admit to, the continuous cultural scrutiny—especially of women over 50 in the industry.
• Societal Pressures, Transparency, and Unattainable Realness
  • Lauren muses:

    "She looks amazing because she looks real, but that realness is also generally unachievable." [30:17, Lauren]

  • The endless public parsing of celebrity appearances is tied to social media’s immediate feedback loops.

    "It's just too much conversation...there's no normal [in LA]." [31:36, Lauren]

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4. The Balloon Pant Trend & The “Alaïa Effect” on Fashion

[32:50 - 41:50]

• Balloon Pants, Alaia, and the Trickledown of Trends
  • The balloon pant, associated with Alaïa’s Peter Mulier, is hotly debated. Lauren notes how Mulier’s “engineered knits” and silhouettes have shaped current fashion.

    “It's wild...everyone has a dance dress. Everyone is using engineered knits in his way.” [36:05, Lauren]

  • Leah admits:

    "I've been looking for the version that I want of them for months." [34:19, Leah]

  • The show discusses the pervasiveness of Alaïa’s influence — especially Mulier’s ability to evolve the brand while staying respectful:

    “He basically had to go to the most revered fashion house…evolve it and make it commercial...” [38:21, Lauren] "It all shows…a kind of confidence...taking a year to find archival pieces...before figuring out how to move it forward." [39:32, Leah]

• Emerging Alternatives
  • Other great balloon/ballerina pant options: Afflalo's jeans, Eckhaus Latta trousers.

    "The jeans look so perfect...you sold me on the Eckhaus Lotta trouser." [40:42; 41:01, Leah] "Here's to the harem pant or the balloon pant or whatever you want to call it." [41:15, Lauren]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Consistent Talent:
  • "There’s like a real level of talent and professionalism there…consistency…it always hits." [09:02, Lauren]
• On the Joy and Privilege of Aging:
  • "Getting older a bitch. Everything conspires against us. And what a privilege and a joy as well, truly." [05:42, Leah]
• On Trends with ‘Staying Power’:
  • "Alaïa business is bigger than it's ever been...these designers who have original ideas are informing everything else in a really natural way." [38:21, Lauren]
• On Balloon Pants Skepticism:
  • "I've been looking for the version that I want of them for months." [34:19, Leah]
  • "Here's to the harem pant or the balloon pant or whatever you want to call it." [41:15, Lauren]
• On Realness in Fashion and Beauty:
  • “She looks amazing because she looks real, but that realness is also generally unachievable.” [30:17, Lauren]
• On the LA Effect:
  • "There's no normal." [31:34, Lauren]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro, Pre-Fashion Week Chatter: 01:53 – 06:48
• London Fashion Week Rundown: 06:48 – 11:42
• Looking Ahead to Milan: 11:42 – 19:48
• Aging Gracefully Discourse: 21:34 – 31:54
• Balloon Pant Trend & Alaïa’s Impact: 32:50 – 41:50

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Episode Tone

Warm, insider-y, conversational — full of friendly ribbing and sharp observation, blending industry analysis with personal experience. The hosts aren’t afraid to share opinions, celebrate originality, and offer nuanced takes on fashion’s most-discussed topics.

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For more insights, industry gossip, or to weigh in on the balloon pant debate, tune in or check Lauren’s ongoing coverage in Line Sheet on Puck.

Transcript

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[Lauren Sherman]

Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of the Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo line sheet. And today with me on the show is Harper's Bazaar Executive Editor Leah Chernikov. We're talking London Fashion Week. What to look forward to in Milan, the business of aging gracefully, balloon pants and so much more. Happy Tuesday everyone. I am recording this super early because I'm flying all day on Monday. Not sure if you knew this, but there is no direct flight from Los Angeles to Milan. I thought there might be one. Leah and I discussed this later. I thought there might be one on an airline that I don't normally take because it's not beneficial to me points wise. But actually there's not one and it's completely insane. Let's change this. There's enough going on between the entertainment industry and the Italian economy that I feel like there needs to be at least one. I don't know. It's upsetting. Anyway, I'm traveling all day on Monday for a minute. I would record this intro from JFK during my layover, but decided that would be ill advised, even if that means you don't get my Burberry take. But not Tori. It's in Monday's line sheet, as are my first thoughts on Demna's first collection. Plus for Gucci, obviously. Plus the requisite scoops, chatter and analysis. On Tuesday, Sergio Pirro has an interview with the great Claire Hornby from me and M. Claire has done something most Brits have failed at. She has mastered the opening retail in America and selling to Americans, I guess en masse, like to a lot of people. They make a lot of money. Even Philip Green couldn't do it. In the end, he did okay for a while, thanks to some help from Nordstrom. But we all know what happened there, so enjoy that conversation. I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens this week and seeing a bunch of you out and about. And I hope you enjoy the new designs and the new concepts too and send me your feedback, your thoughts, what you want me to write about. There's so much going on and I am open. Leah Chernikov, welcome back to Fashion People.

[Leah Chernikov]

Hello, Lauren. Thank you for having me back. It's so nice to be here. As always.

[Lauren Sherman]

Thanks for being here. Did you lighten your hair since I saw you a week ago?

[Leah Chernikov]

No, but it just like, it really looks light right now. Yeah, I, I have my hair blown.

[Lauren Sherman]

Out that I think that's why it's the blowout.

[Leah Chernikov]

It's the blowout makes it look, it's like very light up front.

[Lauren Sherman]

Very light. I like it.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah, it's whatever we got to do to cover the grays. I'm not, I'm not ready to embrace them yet. So here we are.

[Lauren Sherman]

No, I think, you know, honestly not going to do that for a long time. Some people look very elegant with gray hair. I don't think I would personally, so I'm not going to, I'm not going to engage. Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

It's just a personal preference for me as well.

[Lauren Sherman]

Did I tell you that I looked at an old photo of my hair pre. So I, I've been covering the grays, let's say for about a year and a half. I looked. It was probably December 2022.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah. Oh yeah, you mentioned. I think your hair looks really dark.

[Lauren Sherman]

It was so dark, and it looked like a wig.

[Leah Chernikov]

Your hair never looked like a wig.

[Lauren Sherman]

It was strange, though. It was just so dark. And I was talking to my colorist about it, and she said that the older you get, the darker your hair gets.

[Leah Chernikov]

The.

[Lauren Sherman]

The hair that's not gray gets, like, darker, and it becomes very inky.

[Leah Chernikov]

Wow.

[Lauren Sherman]

So I was like, I'm never going back.

[Leah Chernikov]

Getting older a bitch. Everything conspires against us. And what a privilege and a joy as well, truly.

[Lauren Sherman]

And we're gonna discuss this a bit today through one of our topics. But, yeah, thanks for joining me. We are recording this on Sunday because I'm gonna be flying all day on Monday, which thank you to the airline industry for not doing direct flights from Los Angeles to Paris. I'm sure there is one. There might be one on Delta, but I am not. I'm in a different alliance, so it wouldn't help me. But I'm going at 7am to New York, and then I get off the plane at 3, 3:30, and then I fly at 7 to Milano, and I get there at 9am in time for the Diesel show and the Gucci event, which, you know, is, like, I think at this point, a sort of open secret. But I am not gonna spoil it for people, so you'll have to check out my coverage.

[Leah Chernikov]

I've heard things as well.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes. I mean, it's gonna be. I think it's gonna be fun, and by then, we will be able to. I wish this was a little later so we could talk Burberry, which is happening on Monday night. But I was just curious. We're in the middle of London Fashion Week. I've been kind of checking the Runway images. Is there anything that you have seen that you've really, really liked so far?

[Leah Chernikov]

I always love Simone Rocha. Yeah. And I thought her collection looked beautiful, as always. I thought Richard Quinn's show looked really dramatic and fun and what an amazing cast and scene and drama. So those two have stood out. And I think Tripova looked very cool as. As they usually do. But it seemed like there was like, a pep rally and, like, just like a good time, what have you.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes. I noticed Shapova also and thought that it looked just really tight for what they. What they do is not tight, but it felt very tight in, like, the silhouette. And there was, like, a. An idea there I loved. I. I am just really. I went to my first Simone Rocha show last season because I hadn't been to London Fashion Week in ages, and I was just really Impressed by the level of work that she does. It's super a. It's a very successful company. Her father was a very famous designer for a long time. Is a very famous designer, and her operations were sort of embedded within his company. So she just has a really tight operation. And I was just amazed. I'm shocked that she. I'm sure she talks to the bigger companies all the time about jobs, but I'm shocked that she hasn't Take. Maybe she hasn't wanted one or just that it hasn't worked out because she is. There's like a real level of talent and professionalism there that I totally.

[Leah Chernikov]

There's consistency. You know, it just always, always hits.

[Lauren Sherman]

And commercial viability.

[Leah Chernikov]

I just.

[Lauren Sherman]

There's. And. And a little bit of the something for everyone feeling that a big mass designer needs.

[Leah Chernikov]

So I was totally.

[Lauren Sherman]

I was super impressed by that, honestly. And. And I also noticed the Richard Quinn, which I didn't. I only went to, I think, three shows when I was in London because I was only there for two days and really wanted to see people. I went to Simone, I went to Burberry and. And to Amelia Wickstead, kind of like a. A good market survey. But I would. Was sad. I missed Richard Quinn last season, and I do think it was a really strong collection. And this is a place in the market where people are still spending money on formal dresses. And it's like, if you're gonna spend money on clothes, you're gonna buy something really special that is potentially custom. And he just does something that's, like, really forward and bold and, you know, it can be a little tacky in a good way. I. I just. I really loved it. I loved all the black velvet. I thought the casting, as you said, was just really spot on. Obviously, Naomi Campbell opening a show always means something, but I think, yeah, in with him, it feels like, very real. It doesn't feel like they hired her just to hire her. And that. That is exciting.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah, for sure.

[Lauren Sherman]

The other thing at London Fashion Week was not a show, but a party at Chiltern Firehouse, which, I don't know. Obviously, tragically, there's a big fire there and it had to close for an extended period. It still closed, and they reopened it for a night. And this party. Perfect magazine covered it. This party was like Kate Moss, Madonna, and it was just. It was just all like, cool British people and Kate Moss and Madonna. And I was like, that is a party I'd actually want to go to.

[Leah Chernikov]

Well, they're. They're cool British people. Madonna's British at this point, isn't she?

[Lauren Sherman]

I guess. Sure. In the same way Gillian Anderson is British.

[Leah Chernikov]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

But it looked really fun, and it's been interesting. There have been a few good parties this fashion month so far, and it feels like people are going to fewer parties, but the ones that they're going to are better.

[Leah Chernikov]

It's more. More bang for your buck. Make your time worth it.

[Lauren Sherman]

Fewer, better parties. Okay, so what I. I would say with Burberry, I'm very curious to see, and we will know by the time y' all listen to this what Daniel Lee's proposition was. I have a feeling it's going to be similar to what it was last season, because that went over so well.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah, everyone loved it last season, right?

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, yeah, it was. I felt like it looked like it was designed for Anna Wintour, and I mean that in a good way. And, yeah, it was just optimism. And I think the way that they are sort of re. Engineering that business is exciting and is, like a bright spot in that industry, which is challenged right now. So we'll see. I'm excited for that. What are you excited for with the Milan shows? Because we have a lot of debuts coming up. It's. It's obviously not as. As long as Paris, but there is. I feel like something new almost every single day.

[Leah Chernikov]

I know. Well, you're gonna have to kind of, like, help. Remind me of how many. There are, like, 15 debuts to keep track of. But in Milan, obviously. Bottega. Right.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. There is a baker's dozen now. There are 15, including some of the New York stuff. But.

[Leah Chernikov]

Right. Because we had Rachel at Proenza and the new area.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, but so it starts with Demna. At Gucci.

[Leah Chernikov]

At Gucci, which. There's also a thing in New York, too.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, yeah. It's not a Runway show. We can't say anything more than that. But they have said it's not a runaway show, so we can. Yes, we can say that. And then on Wednesday is Jill Sander, which obviously I'm very excited for. Of course, we'll see how that is. I feel like I was thinking about this collection and the designers, Simone Belate.

[Leah Chernikov]

And the Bally Fave.

[Lauren Sherman]

The Bally Fave. So the interesting thing I was thinking about, like, what have people actually bought in the last, I don't know, two years? And in the industry, like, when. When Alessandro Gucci came out, everybody got Gucci loafers, that type of thing. It really has been bally, which obviously the distribution was quite limited, but I Think among like fashion industry people. And I see Michael, writer, Celine, this happening with two. Because there's like I already. I know I want to get one shirt. I feel like a lot of people are already pre ordered the bags, things like that. But there hasn't been a lot of everybody going and buying something type thing. Except for Bally, where during Milan Fashion Week everyone was going and getting boat shoes.

[Leah Chernikov]

Shoes. Yeah, for sure there was.

[Lauren Sherman]

So they had a lot of the ready to wear there or it just felt like the one sort of uniting new thing that obviously people are always buying Chanel flats and things like. Yeah, but. And Phoebe, you know, and Phoebe, I'd say like. And. And this is obviously specific to me also. But the thing that everyone was going to Charvet, everybody was getting something from Phoebe and everybody went to Bali multiple times usually to try on like 15 different things. So I am. It'll be interesting. Like.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah, that sounds like the circuit for sure.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. And Jill Sander is a much bigger company. It's owned by otb, which is a big group. It has a lot of distribution and he's just going to have more opportunity. And so I'm really excited for that, obviously as like a personal fan and consumer of his stuff. But also I just think it like signals a big opportunity for OTB on the. And all of their. Obviously Glenn Martin's at Margiela and Meryl Roget at Marnie, but she's not. I don't think she's showing till next season, but it's an exciting time. And then obviously, yes, Bottega and Louise Trotter. How do you feel about that? I'm. I've really liked so far the, you know, we've been getting all these hints on. On red carpet of what's to come with these designers. I've really liked what she's presented so.

[Leah Chernikov]

Far and in the kind of the imagery campaign. Imagery she's been putting out too, feels really thoughtful and cool and considered. So, yeah, I'm very excited. I was thinking too with like, with Bally and Simone Bilotti about distribution. Like, I'm sure part of what made it seem like the kind of thing everyone wanted to go buy is because you, it's, you know, it's hard to get something you can't get everywhere.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

And that is part of the appeal. Right. But when I think of Bally, I can't think of like, like an aesthetic as much as I do like accessories. And obviously with Jill Sander there's a really clear stylistic legacy. So I Think it will be interesting to see how he plays with that. Like, that's my favorite real, real search term is vintage Jill Sander. So that should be cool. And Louise, what are you looking forward to about her?

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, I think, I agree that the campaign that they ran this past season was just really excellent. And I think they've just done a good job with the transition and made it feel. I don't know if compassionate is a good word, but these transitions that are very compassionate feel less fraught or stressful. And I also think I really admire her. I think she's just a smart person. I only met her at length once, but I. And this was when she was at Joseph and I just really was impressed by her as a human and was like, wow, this is like a grown up woman who knows what she's doing and takes responsibility for herself in some ways. And also just like a professional, this, it didn't feel very ego driven for her. And I think that's sort of what Mattieu instilled at that brand too. Was like, it's not about me, it's about the brand. And obviously he was so talented that Chanel decided that he, he could, you know, take over for Karl Lagerfeld, which, you know, I, I think a lot of that has to do with how well he treated the Bottega brand. And I think she has a similar way of being. And I'm also just excited. You know, she's always been. All three of her gigs, Joseph Lacoste and then Carvin.

[Leah Chernikov]

Carvin, yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

Have been at places with like, not unlimited funds. And it's not that she is. I'm sure her funds are limited in some ways or what she's done. I'm sure there are some guardrails. But the reality of it is this is a giant leather goods house with a budget. And that's the shining star in the caring portfolio at this moment. So I am excited to see what she can do with more resources. So I'm super pumped for it.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah. Yeah. I was just looking back over that campaign and to use like to think of that word, compassion, and I said thoughtful before, but the cast that she featured, I think, you know, like that says a lot about, you know, how she's thinking about the brand and who she envisions in it and the kind of audience she. She wants to reach. Like, really literary, like, and just artistic like, you know, Zadie Smith, Barbara Chase reboot. Like really kind of like a lot of if you know, you know, but very revered figures. So. Yeah, yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

It actually feels very in line. You don't have to comment on this, but what sort of what you all do at Harper's Bazaar and the kind of people that Samira and you and the rest of the team are interested in, which is looking at people in contemporary culture who are maybe not on TikTok always, but who are making like a real imprint. And so that's it's interesting. I can't wait to see when and if you all profile her how you approach it, because I think it'll be really, as you said, very thoughtful.

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[Lauren Sherman]

I also wanted to talk to you about a couple sort of less fashion weeky things, because we are this is a sort of the calm before the storm. It's really gonna be insane for the next couple of weeks for all of us, whether we're at the shows or not. But one thing that kind of came across my radar on social media this past weekend and I posted about it and you and I were discussing it was the Pit star Katherine Lanasa and her husband Grant show. So they were at the Emmys together. Someone did a video of them.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

Somehow it just became a thing on my little corner of the Internet. And you and I were discussing what I was like taken aback by is a. I liked. I really liked the Pit. I know you watched it. I thought it was a great show. I liked her in it. I knew I had seen her somewhere before, but I had no idea where. And I was kind of like, how did this woman, she's in her 50s how did she sort of skirt by fame and then seeing them together. And the thing is, like, I posted something about them aging gracefully and looking great doing it or something. And someone responded to me, well, he's obviously. He's in his 60s. He's obviously had something done. Look, I don't know what they haven't had done, but what I think is interesting about this couple, and I'm curious what you were thinking, is that their faces look like they did 20 years ago. You Google her or you Google him. And their faces, obviously they've changed with age, but their faces, it still looks like the same human. Which I think the reality is most people who are acting who are, and especially women, but like, men too, who are in, you know, over the age of 50. They're. They've had incredible transformations, for good and bad. And obviously, like, all anyone talks about right now are these. These facelifts and et cetera, et cetera. But it. What I really took. I was taken aback by, in this video was like, they both have, like, a lot of wrinkles and they're both obviously extremely gorgeous. But I. I just thought it said something about the state of our culture that people were so obsessed by them.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah, well, there's something obviously nostalgically appealing, like she registered for you. You. You know, she's like one of those character actors where, you know you've seen her somewhere. But, like, you know, she was. I mean, every character on the pit, I think, gave you a reason to be obsessed with them. But, like, she was nominated for good reason. Like, she was just so outstanding. And then he's obviously got a nostalgic pull for, you know, those of us who are our elder millennial age and X for Melrose Play. So.

[Lauren Sherman]

Did you watch Melrose Place?

[Leah Chernikov]

A little bit.

[Lauren Sherman]

Like, I just, like, have made memories too young.

[Leah Chernikov]

We were. But I remember it feeling like a little. Like I would watch a little. And it was like, I don't really get it, but it feels, like, naughty in a fun way to. And, like, I just remember they all lived around a pool and, like, bodies would end up there.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. The funny thing is there are a lot of these apartment complexes in Los Angeles. There's one called French Hills that a lot of fashion people work live at, which I'm. They're going to be mad now that I've outed them. But it is. It's like that. It's like Melrose Place. Like, they all, like, go and ask for a cup of sugar or what. Not that anyone's eating Sugar in Los Angeles, but a cuppa something. Protein powder or something. You know, it's. But yeah, I. I remember I was very. I. I feel like I watched a lot of films at too early of an age. I was allowed to watch a lot of movies that were inappropriate, like, from very young, like 6, 7 years old. Watching cocktail, stuff like that. But, yeah, with TV, I just remember I watching 90210 and being mad at the episode where I think Kelly steals something from a store or something and being, like, very upset about it. I think I was nine and those shows felt wrong to me. Like, it's interesting given, like, how exposed I was to stuff. I was like, it's not okay that for me to watch these shows.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah, I knew it wasn't okay. But the other thing I was gonna say, food for thought, which our beauty director Jenna Rosenstein brought up the other day, is like, there are good wrinkles.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

And wrinkles people don't want. You know, like, there are crow's feet and, like, you know, some lines that feel, like, very desirable because they're. Yeah, yeah. I love. Who doesn't love crow's feet? And then they're. You know, there are one that we.

[Lauren Sherman]

All wish we didn't have, but they look. That's basically all they have is crow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it was.

[Leah Chernikov]

Oh, and the one thing I feel like we should have mentioned about Louise Trotter and Bottego is she put Edward Buchanan, who was the first ever design director, notably first. The first black design director for Bottega, in the campaign. That was, like, such a fab image.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, that is. That's so human. And also in that campaign, a lot of people had wrinkles.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah. Real faces. I mean, Barbara Chase Ribo is very up in years.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, so what do you think about this, like, good wrinkles thing? Wow. So what do you think about this good wrinkles thing?

[Leah Chernikov]

Like, I don't know, like everything else there, it's just like, kind of these things that are unattainable in some ways. But I. I'll take it. I love good wrinkles. What do you think?

[Lauren Sherman]

Look, the thing. Who was I talking about this with? The. The other day there. Maybe it was Marissa Meltzer on a different. Maybe it was on. We have an upcoming podcast about her Jane Birkin book.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

But there's something about. What are you gonna do? Like, you have your list of things. My friends Danielle and Brooke have a list of things. Like, if I could, this is what I would do. Like, what would you prioritize and the reality is, and I think this is what Marissa said, a preview for the upcoming podcast. She was like, I might never do anything. You just are kind of like, I think I want to do it, but am I ever gonna do it? And also I don't wanna spend on it.

[Leah Chernikov]

It's like just a thing to talk about sometimes. Like a hall pass card in some ways just like the.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, well, it's like my shopping list, but I have a. Like these are the things I would do if I could do them. And I don't know, I kind of think the interesting that is happening in culture right now because we have so much immediate feedback, the feedback loop is so constant. We see these people's faces and they are all getting a lot more work done than they used to. But the reality of it is like seeing a 37 year old actress and trying to figure out if she's had a facelift. Like, I don't. I. Maybe she has. But you know what I. What is it going to do for me? Like nothing. I'm not getting a facelift. And, and so it's, it's just interesting, like how far are you willing to go? And I think there is this. One of the other big things that I really noticed on the Emmys red carpet was like the GLP1 usage with people who are perhaps already thin and so they're like starting to get the bobblehead look and it's like, okay, there's so much pressure to be thin and to not and to like fit into anything. But then there's pressure to not look like that. It looked like you've done it naturally. Which before this there was fen phen or whatever. Like there was always something to get people skinnier. And so it's a very interesting. Like when I look at Catherine Lanassa, whose ex husbands were also equally as interesting. Dennis Hopper and French Stewart famously of 3rd Rock from the Sun.

[Leah Chernikov]

That's right. Incredible line of exes.

[Lauren Sherman]

Incredible is that like she looks amazing because she looks real, but that realness is also generally unachievable. And we just spend way too much time as a culture like thinking about how to look different.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah. And now there's just like a whole, it's like a, a whole genre of content and commentary to like think out loud about this stuff, which is just like you could go on forever. But like where does, you know, as they say, got to get out and touch grass or whatever. We're not do whatever makes you happy. But yeah, it is a whole genre of TikTok or social media to just speculate. And that's exhausting.

[Lauren Sherman]

And some of that has to do with, like, transparency among celebrities, which I appreciate and commend because it's like, don't lie about it. But on the. It's just too much conversation. I also think living in la, I have become, even though I'm like, on the east side in normal land, like, I still am affected by it, for sure.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

Because everybody does it, does something.

[Leah Chernikov]

There's no normal.

[Lauren Sherman]

No, no. And even with the these, you know, east siders eating junk food and wearing their sweatshirts from set or whatever, they're all like, already got their half facelifts.

[Leah Chernikov]

They're half deep clean.

[Kristen Bell]

Hi, I'm Kristen Bell, and if you know my husband Dax, then you also know he loves shopping for a car. Selling a car, not so much.

[Leah Chernikov]

We're really doing this, huh?

[Kristen Bell]

Thankfully, Carvana makes it easy. Answer a few questions, put in your VIN or license, and done. We sold ours in minutes this morning and they'll come pick it up and pay us this afternoon.

[Leah Chernikov]

Goodbye, Truckee.

[Kristen Bell]

Of course, we kept the favorite.

[Leah Chernikov]

Hello, other Truckee.

[Kristen Bell]

Sell your car with Carvana today. Terms and conditions apply.

[Marshalls Narrator]

This episode is brought to you by Marshalls, where you never have to compromise between quality and price. The buyers of Marshalls hustle hard working to bring you great deals on brand name and designer pieces because Marshalls believes everyone deserves access to the good stuff. Visit a Marshalls store near you or shop [e-mail].

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay, one more thing that I wanted to talk to you about is you host a podcast with your colleague Lynette Nylander called the Goodbye. And you're always talking about shopping. And I was actually perusing the Harper's Bazaar website today and I noticed that you all did a piece about the balloon pants trend, which I would say is sort of trickled down from Alaia, but now is sort of available everywhere. And our mutual friend Jessica Joffe posted on her incredible Instagram account where she plays fashion critic once a week, essentially, like, basically joking about these balloon pants and being like, people should not be wearing these pants. It's silly. And I, I just love her.

[Leah Chernikov]

Take her and very unvarnished and fab.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, it's really good. Her Lewis Magg, James Scully, they're all the sort of Instagram fashion critics that I'm. I don't always agree with them. I think that sometimes, you know, I, I try to see broader, but I think they all have really strong, incisive points of view. And I recommend to follow. But Jessica was saying this. I am curious what you think, because I actually feel like you would. You would do the balloon pant trend.

[Leah Chernikov]

I would not.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's not for me. Have you done it? How are you feeling about it?

[Leah Chernikov]

No, I actually. It's funny you mention it, because I obviously. Yes. I love Jessica, love her point of view. It's obviously, you know, based on so many years, like, really inside the industry, like, as a model. And then, you know, when she was on that DVF reality show, too. Just lots of different perspectives. So I find it, you know, funny and very informed. But, yeah, I was listening, you know, listening, reading her say, like, nobody should wear these pants. And, you know, I've been looking for the version that I want of them for months.

[Lauren Sherman]

I see you wearing them with, like, Chanel ballet flats.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah. So cute. And, like, a leather jacket. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Or just like a little cash. Thin cashmere crew neck, you know, like, with, like, all black. They're like. It's also, to me, there's like, a crossover with the kind of, like, Salterhouse bloomer. Yeah. Like, I'm really into the. Yeah. Like, the elasticated hem at the ankle and a little tie. You know, I like little dainty ballerina e. Girly touches, so I find that appealing. And I do think it's going to be everywhere. And I can't. I can't see myself, like, splurging for Alaia. And I do think we're going to see some weird versions of it, but I. I appreciate it as a silhouette, and I think it could be flattering and to your point. I mean, I know you. You wrote this quite aptly of just, like, if there was one designer whose effect could be felt the most deeply across New York Fashion Week, it seems like it was Peter Mullier.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's wild. It's just, it's. It has infiltrated our lives. Like, everyone has a dance dress. Everyone is using engineered knits. In his way.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

And I mean, engineered knits are not owned by Alaia, but in the way that Peter uses them, it was. And I think this is a positive. Like, this isn't. It's. I think it's great and I think it's good for Alaia. It's sort of Rising Tide type thing.

[Leah Chernikov]

And I think he would say that. You know, I think that, like he said before the ballet flat, obviously, that he did that has been copied endlessly. He is not mad about it or resentful. He sees it the same way of just, like, it Resonates. But I think he thinks he said very, very carefully about, like, am I doing something original?

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

And if I see it somewhere else, like, I'm not. We're starting over. Like, I think he's ruthless about that.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

And that is really hard to do.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, what I thought was remarkable this season was last season in Paris in February. Was it February or March or whatever? Is that the.

[Leah Chernikov]

Where one of the two? March? Yeah, both.

[Lauren Sherman]

Maybe his collection. It was like, there was nothing on that Runway that I was like, oh, that's super commercial. Like, it was all beautiful and amazing and extraordinary, but I wasn't like, I see what he's doing here to merchandise. Like, how are they going to merchandise this? I was like, wow, he really just went for it. And the interesting thing there was all these, like, accordion pleated skirts that were really challenging in the. In their construction. And I saw that at a lot of shows. Like, I saw the diffusion. I was like, wow, he's really doing it. And I look at my closet and the stuff that I buy is like, those three that we just mentioned and Alaia. So it's like, everyone goes to Charvet, everyone goes to Alaia, everybody goes to Phoebe Filo, and everyone wanted a piece of Bali before it was too late. But I think, like, it's such a privilege to see that kind of thing happen, because for so many years, we were just on this treadmill. And now these designers who have original ideas are sort of informing everything else in a really natural way. And also, the Alaia business is bigger than it's ever been. And again, I think we tend to forget what a difficult task he had. Like, he basically had to go to the most revered fashion house that hadn't really changed in 40 years and evolve it and make it into a commercial.

[Leah Chernikov]

Business, but also do it with the appropriate amount of respect. And. Yeah, extraordinary.

[Lauren Sherman]

And. And shout out to his CEO, Miriam, who is also really great, and also shout out to Reshma, the parent company, for letting them do it, because it's not easy. And I think there's just a combo of all those things that they really succeeded. And it's heartwarming, to be honest.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah. I think there's a Patience, too, about it. There is a story about that flat when you mentioned the CEO. It did not sell at first. It didn't sell for the first year, but they kept it on the shelves, and then it absolutely exploded. But I think it takes a kind of confidence. And I think there are stories, too, about Peter Mulier, like, taking a year to go through, like, find archival pieces on ebay and stuff. Get, like, get into the brand for a long time until he figured out how he would do his own thing and move it forward and, like. Yeah, it all shows, right?

[Lauren Sherman]

It all shows. Another great place to get a pair of these pants. These pantaloon balloon pants is a flalo. They did a really good one.

[Leah Chernikov]

A flalo. I was gonna say, like, if you're talking about the other, like, version to get to me. That's. That's the one. And she's got a pair of jeans right now.

[Lauren Sherman]

The jeans. So good. The jeans are incredible. I was told to wait because I wanted to buy a pair. I might get this because Guy pant in wool.

[Leah Chernikov]

Okay. Is it on sale now? The jeans look so perfect.

[Lauren Sherman]

The. The jeans look amazing. I was told to wait for one. There's gonna be a newer one.

[Leah Chernikov]

Another style.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, that.

[Leah Chernikov]

And you sold me on the Eckhouse Lotta trouser.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh, my God. I need to get them immediately.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah, I. I loved listening to them.

[Lauren Sherman]

They were awesome.

[Leah Chernikov]

They. It was such a great collection. And those. Those trousers were fab. Also very me. So maybe I'll. I love a trouser.

[Lauren Sherman]

I. I love a tr. I need. I need a slim trouser. I have a really great pair of Phoebe trousers, but I need. I need a couple more things. Anyway, here's to the harem pant or the balloon pant or whatever you want to call it. Check out I know. Story on harpersbazaar.com.

[Leah Chernikov]

Do you know what's funny is, like, it's such a. It feels like a. Such a distinct new shape that, like, El has done that. Like, when you think about the SEO of it, it's like it's a balloon pant if you're sort of copying an Alaia. But, you know, a harem pant is like, if you're sort of looking for a vintage version.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

So what do you target? What are you looking for? I know. Great.

[Lauren Sherman]

Great. Behind the scenes of how the Sausage Gets Made at. At Harper's.

[Leah Chernikov]

And for your own, you know, browsing for my own.

[Lauren Sherman]

Thank you. Well, I'm never buying these.

[Leah Chernikov]

No, no, I. I could. No, it's not. It's not for me. I can tell. Part of me will only always want to dress like a extra on Fame, and I do ballet every weekend, you know, and it's like a ballet pant that's like a trash bag pant. It's kind of got the same vibe they wear. They wear them to, like, warm up and get sweaty. Anyway.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I understand. I have really embraced the dance dress. Like, I have a couple dresses from Malaia that I love and wear for formal events. And then I bought an Emily Dawn Long Long, named after her mom, Janet, because she's okay. But I. I love it. It's beautiful. And it's. It's. It's definitely of this. And there was a. A dress at the Tory Burch show, the pink one that I messaged them. I want to order it.

[Leah Chernikov]

As soon as it came down the Runway, I was like, oh, and I have one like this actually in my closet from Altuzara. From what? Like, any dress that looks like you can do a big, wide, like Martha Graham squat in, like, that's for me.

[Lauren Sherman]

I. I see it. It is your time, Leah. And thank you for being here. This was so fun.

[Leah Chernikov]

A pleasure, as always. Safe travels on your long, long day tomorrow.

[Lauren Sherman]

Thank you. I'll see you in a couple weeks, though.

[Leah Chernikov]

Bye.

[Lauren Sherman]

Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman, and Bob Tabador.

[Tumi Narrator]

Sam SA.