Loading summary
Transcript114 lines
- [00:00]
Lauren Sherman
The thing to buy yourself this summer's jewelry and Macy's jewelry sale is the perfect excuse. Whether you're celebrating something special or just want that everyday sparkle, Macy's has up to 70% off jewelry and watches. Right now you'll find 45 to 70% off fine jewelry, 40 to 55% off fashion jewelry and 20% off watches from top brands like Effie, Le Vian, Citizen Fossil, and more. Some of the deals I'm loving right now include a $199 true miracle diamond stud earring set in 14 karat white gold. So timeless. Perfect for gifting. Or if you're thinking bigger, there's a diamond tennis bracelet for $2,499 or a Diamond Halo bridal set for just $1,099. From pendants and rings to drop earrings and lab grown diamonds, this is your moment to shine. The Macy's jewelry sale runs Aug. 14 through Aug. 25. Shop now at macy's.com or in store.
- [01:05]
Lemonade Pet Insurance
Just got a new puppy or kitten. Congrats. But also, yikes. Between crates, beds, toys, treats and those first few vet visits, you've probably already dropped a small fortune. Which is where Lemonade Pet Insurance comes in. It helps cover vet costs so you can focus on what's best for your new pet. The coverage is customizable, sign up is quick and easy, and your claims are handled in as little as 3 seconds. Pro Lemonade offers a package specifically for puppies and kittens. Get a'llemonade.com pet your future self will thank you. Your pet won't. They don't know what insurance is.
- [01:44]
Lauren Sherman
Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's fashion and beauty memo line Cheat. And today with me on the show is Marie Louise Sky Ghio, the hotelier behind Il Pelicano. We discuss vacations in the age of Instagram, her love affair with the fashion industry, and so much more. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytic, and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world, and much more. If you're interested listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go To Puck news fashion people to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday, everyone. I hope you had a great week. Line sheet was packed as usual. We had a bunch of Vogue succession news. Four out of five, I believe for maybe five out of five days in some. In case something crazy happens, I don't know, I think it's gonna be four out of five. A whole lot on the business of Kate. From numbers to analysis from Sarah. It's really interesting what's happening over there. Rachel Strugatz dug into the Martha Stewart beauty launch, revealed many details behind it that had not been reported previously. I also addressed this, these nagging rumors about Jenna Lyons joining Gap Inc. And in particular Banana Republic. It's not true. She's not going there. But it got me think. First of all, I don't know why people are so obsessed with her going there. It's crazy. Like, I hear it from people internally, I hear it from outside. They just really want her to work there. So maybe the universe is telling Richard Dixon, the CEO something. But I. It made me really think about Banana Republic in particular and what's happening there and Athleta, which is another company owned by Gap Inc. And in general, how it's going. I love to do a check in with Richard Dixon, you know, every six months or so. And then there was lots of September issue cover conversations. So I hope you enjoy it. And let's get going with Marie. She is so fascinating. I love chatting with her. I love the if you think of like Italy, Instagram aesthetic vacation, Italy holiday vacation aesthetic, it's because of Marie. So we kind of talk about what that means and how she grapples with it as a person who runs hotels for a living and owns hotels. So I hope you enjoy it. Marie Louise Shaw, welcome to Fashion People.
- [04:47]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
I did it. Thank you, Lauren. Thank you for having me.
- [04:51]
Lauren Sherman
I'm so glad to have you. What'd you have for breakfast this morning? It's not. It's afternoon now for you. But what did. What was the first thing you ate put in your mouth today?
- [05:00]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Coffee.
- [05:01]
Lauren Sherman
How do you take your coffee?
- [05:02]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
They always say coffee's the best thing you can have on an empty stomach, isn't it? So coffee with oat milk and followed by some really good bread with fantastic honey from a friend's beehive.
- [05:18]
Lauren Sherman
Where are you in the world right now?
- [05:20]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Currently in the office in Rome.
- [05:24]
Lauren Sherman
So are you. Is that where you're based day to day or.
- [05:28]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Yeah. So Rome is. Rome is the headquarters and it's also where I live when My. With my son when he comes to see me. And then I'm. I travel though a lot during the summer. I'm always in the car, basically.
- [05:43]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I can imagine you're probably visiting properties and hosting things.
- [05:48]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Yeah, I live in the car. That's where I reside, basically.
- [05:53]
Lauren Sherman
What kind of car do you drive? I'm curious.
- [05:55]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
I drive a big Range Rover just because I spend so much time in it that I thought I might as well buy a couch on wheels.
- [06:03]
Lauren Sherman
I'm into it. I became a driver just four years ago and am very proud of my Volvo. And also I've looked at Range Rovers. They're good, but it's very funny. It's such a funny culture and driving in Italy, which I've never done, but I've been to Pantelleria and have been taken around by the two drivers that drive everybody in there. And it is a very fun experience. And my husband and I always talk about if we drove and went back to somewhere like that, if we could handle it. I don't think we could.
- [06:41]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Well, I mean, Italy is a really good place for a road trip.
- [06:44]
Lauren Sherman
Though I have to say, it sounds really. I'm sure it's extremely beautiful.
- [06:49]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
It's. It's great. I mean, you can just get lost and wonder and always find something absolutely beautiful or great to eat. So it's a win. Win pretty much.
- [06:59]
Lauren Sherman
Well, I feel like you're also a person who. Your job is to create and make people's holidays really special. So you are always thinking in that way too, like your life, your work is a holiday in some way.
- [07:15]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
So totally looks like it, I promise. But it really is not.
- [07:20]
Lauren Sherman
No, I mean, I know, but I know it's a holiday, but it's a work holiday.
- [07:24]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
It's a work. It's a holiday with. I put it this way, it's an office with a great view.
- [07:30]
Lauren Sherman
I love that positive point of view on it. So you are here to talk about your company and growing up in this business. And before we started chatting, I wanted to. Everybody knows El Pellicano. They know all your properties. They're very familiar with you. If they read magazines or if they travel in Italy, you have. But your business has become synonymous with travel in Italy, which is. Which is remarkable over the past 10 years especially. And then you have this deep connection with the fashion industry. But what was it like growing up in the hospitality business and what made you decide to make it your business too?
- [08:21]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
First of all, thank you for synonymous of Italian holidays, because that's exactly what I Want the. That's the. That's the goal. So I already have these.
- [08:29]
Lauren Sherman
The yellow and white stripe. I mean, it's just. It's associated with you, and it's associated with Italy and having cocktail, and it's amazing.
- [08:37]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Oh, thank you. Well, you just made my day, so there you go. Thanks for that. I. Yeah, I. So I grew up there because my dad was. He was a guest at the Pelicano, and. And then when he bought it, I was. I think I was 2 years old or something, and that. So I. You know, I had no idea. For me, it was our kind of beach house. And then there was all these random people who would come in and out at this beach house. So it was always. It always felt like home, yet a bizarre home where people would come in and out of it and not, you know, and many times the same people. So it really made it like a home. And then many times, obviously different people. So it was definitely very formative to grow up there. And I knew I was growing up in some funny world that wasn't regular. And I always tried to. I remember trying to make sense of it. Right. Because it's a home. It's not a home. What is it? Who are these people? Oh, man, we're going to see them again. Until then, Slim Aarons showed up. And this is something I've been, you know, realizing with time, but I used to spend a lot of time kind of following him, taking pictures, because I was very intrigued of what I was seeing, which was a world of beautiful and very stylish people, very elegant people. But I didn't, you know, I couldn't put two plus two together. It was kind of all into intuition. So I was like, what is this man doing now? He's this. Someone's photographing all of this, right? And so I would kind of follow him. And I remember this one time he took this faggous picture of my parents lying down on the couch. I don't know if you know that picture. My mom has this pile of books. The Rise and Fall of the Medici, and everything. Very dramatic. And I remember perfectly well when he took that picture. And I stood behind that lens with him and I said, oh, Nabs, he's photographing kind of a film set. And so I always thought I was really living in a fabulous film set. And him being there actually helped me. It was through his lens that I understood that there was kind of a nearly a disconnect between what was home to me and what it meant for other people. And so I Spent a lot of my childhood, you know, hiding in bushes because children were not allowed in to look at this fabulous world. And these men in seersucker suits and women with these long gowns. And my mom used to go to dinner with Capuchi dresses. So it was very. So I think it was definitely very formative in terms of my relationship with fashion and style, I think, because that's where I saw it all happen. And my mom used to write for Harper's Bazaar, Spain, so there was a lot of kind of style going on. The only thing I knew when I was a bit older was I didn't want to be in the hotel worlds and I wanted to be in a creative world. So I studied architecture at Rhode Island School of Design and loved it and did every single course from glassblowing to painting to sculpture, you name it. And then didn't know exactly where I wanted to be in the art world. So I thought, I'll choose architecture. It's probably a really good base. And it was actually a really good. It was actually a very good call because I started working in New York for a big developer doing all these huge apartment buildings where all the flats were the same. And I realized then what I didn't want to do, which is just as important as knowing what you do want to do, which I didn't want to do things that were the same. And so when I came back to Italy, I started working for an interior designer. And then my dad wanted a return on his investment, I guess, and asked me to redesign a bathroom at the Pilicano. And so I thought, great, you know, great opportunity. So I did this bathroom and I. And I remember very well saying to him, I think you need to redo this place for a younger crowd. Like, it was, you know, it's been around at that point for quite some time, but it was getting tired. And he said, do it, whatever that meant. And I was like, okay, what? And he was like, just do it. It's like, okay, so I'll interview some architects and. And I'll see what. Who's the right one. And. And so I did, and I met all these great architects, but they were all going to put their ego on it, and it was about their design and it wasn't about the hotel. So I thought, I'll screw it up. But I can't get it that wrong. I know the DNA of the place. I know the style that's embedded in the walls. I know know how this place should feel to people to preserve its DNA. And so I kind of closed my nose. I was like, okay, I'll go for it. And I did. And the next year, when we opened, these two clients had been coming since the opening, said to me, oh, something's changed, but I don't know what. So I thought, oh, mission accomplished in some way. And so then I got into the graphic design, because it wasn't working with interior design. And then I started getting into the uniforms and then the plates. And so I started pulling everything together to make it feel harmonious, because a bit felt from the 70s, a bit felt from the 90s. It just wasn't. And so that's how I ended up getting involved in the hotel business.
- [14:22]
Lauren Sherman
And that was like, in the mid-2000s.
- [14:25]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Yeah. I mean, my son was born 2002. I think I started, like, 2004 or something like that.
- [14:31]
Lauren Sherman
Okay, so you redesigned this hotel, and at this point, your family only owned that hotel?
- [14:38]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
No. So my dad owned also La Postavecchia, which he bought shortly after the Pellicano. So the other place where we grew up was very much at the Postavecchia as well, because that was our home. Home for some time until it became a hotel. Whilst the Pilicanum was always a hotel, Aposta Vecchia became one. And so, you know, also there. There was a lot of. It was more intimate, clearly, because it wasn't a hotel, but it was very beautiful and stylish. And I think, you know, aesthetics and style is something that's been around my life a lot, especially growing up in a city like Rome. Right. Where you're surrounded by harmony and balance and color and beauty, really.
- [15:19]
Lauren Sherman
And when did you. My first memory of Pellicano is sort of you bringing your crew around and having photography from the late 2000s there of your friends and really fabulous clothing and style and bringing it all together. When did you. I'm sure you were bringing friends there while you were growing up for forever. But as you started to spend more time working on the business, did you start to pull people in? Like, how did the scene there develop?
- [15:56]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
It was kind of quite natural because not coming from a hospitality background, I was really free to come up with any idea I wanted, really. Right. And when I was doing the research for the interior design, I called slimarrans and I said, you know, can you. I want to see you. I want to see how the pictures of how the Pilicano was back in the 80s and 90s. And he said, I sold everything to Getty Images. It's all in London. So I went to London. And I went in this room and there was boxes and boxes of pictures of pilicano. And so I thought, oh, my God, we have to do a book. Because the pictures were unbelievable. We already had. We owned the John Swope archive. He was a time photographer who had documented all the building of the hotel. And we had those pictures in the hotel. And so then when I saw all these pictures of slimarrans, I was like, we have to do a book. So through someone who I know suggested Robert Bylet, who's an amazing editor, and I called him and we put this book together. And the first draft, there was only these kind of two chapters. And it felt nostalgic, right? It felt. It stopped with. With. In the. In the late 90s with slim ahrens. And so Robert said to me, who would you want to work with? Like, who do you think is the right person to do the contemporary chapter? And I thought the only person who came to mind and who I really only wanted to work with was Jurgen. And I loved his work and I still do, but I thought he would be really great. And in. Only now I see that the dissonance between Jurgen and Slim are so. They're so different. And I think that was quite. I didn't realize, but it was quite a choice because when the book came out, it was an immense success because Slim, sadly, had died. So his photography was everywhere. And then having Jurgen take that chapter of pictures, and there was a lot of my friends because we had had a party, we always had parties. So he photographed a week there, and within that week there was this party. And so then it started. I think that's how it opened up in the fashion world a bit, right. Because of Jurgen's connection to fashion. And Pellicano always, historically, had a connection to fashion. And so that's when I think the new chapter for the hotel, not only for the book, but for the hotel, happened. And that kind of was the start of when I really started and my era of bringing that along. You know, I would say my dad's a Slimarren's chapter. And my chapter really starts with the. With kind of the Jurgen with that book. And then we did a cookbook together that was bonkers and absolutely fabulous, these books.
- [18:50]
Lauren Sherman
I just looked up the original book and it's going for a lot of money on. I know you should. Have you ever thought of reissuing it?
- [19:01]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
No, not yet. I do have a big box at home still.
- [19:05]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, my God, that's amazing.
- [19:07]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
No, we haven't. We haven't we should probably. It was really amazing, the success of that book. And I remember when my big goal was to be on Vanity Fair, when Graydon Carter was the editor in chief. And we had this call and I was so emotional and so excited that I got this page. I can't remember the name of the page, but there was a specific fabulous page with like. I don't know if it was new books or something. And I still have that cutout of that page because when it came out there and it was really exciting.
- [19:43]
Lauren Sherman
That's awesome. And I mean, I feel like Airmail owes you a lot. I'm sure they cover you all constantly. It's such a. The interesting thing to me. Like, speaking of you wanted to be in Vanity Fair, how much your hotels have become part of the modern culture and the way they were back in the Slim Errands era as well. What do you think gave you. Is that an instinct you have? Or was it something about how your dad ran the business, that you understood that it. In order for it to be more than just a hotel, you needed to ground it in the current culture somehow? Like, can you explain your thinking and how you managed to do that? Because bringing Jurgen to do those photos, like, that's an art book. That's not just a book of pretty photos. And maybe if he had just done it himself, but combining it with John Swope and Slim Aarons, that creates something that like, it needs to be on people's shelves. It's like a necessary. It's not just a compliment. Elementary. Is that just an instinct? Is that something you grew up observing and then you absorbed it? How. How does your thought process work in that way?
- [21:07]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
It's very instinctual. I mean, I also like non obvious. I don't go for obvious. And. And I'm just not. My brain doesn't think in that direction in some way. And maybe it's more complicated. I think. I think it's a bit how I was brought up. I think certainly how Risdito I loved. I think it was such a formative school to kind of have the apply critical thinking on everything. And also the fact that again, I wasn't in hospitality because if you look at books on hotels today, they're kind of old. They're coffee table books, right? Like they're a great gift, but they're not talking about a place that was. Has been culturally relevant or is or you know, and it's very different and so really instinctual. Anyway. It always puts a smile on my face because I always think These projects are so, they come from instinct and then I think, oh, it's going to be very too dissonant. But then it worked out in some way. So, you know, it's a bit like, like Birkenstocks. I remember when we did the collaboration and my father basically passed out and I told him we were doing a thing with Birkenstocks and he was like, what, what do they have to do with the pilicano? It's like nothing. And I said, don't believe me? It's going to be, they're going to be really great. Elevated Birkenstocks.
- [22:24]
Lauren Sherman
The best Birkenstocks that to ever exist.
- [22:27]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Oh, thank you. I, I love them. I still have a little stash of those too. I have three, not many, but.
- [22:37]
Lauren Sherman
The thing to buy yourself this summer is jewelry. And Macy's jewelry sale is the perfect excuse whether you're celebrating something special or just want that everyday sparkle. Macy's has up to 70% off jewelry and watches right now. You'll find 45 to 70% off fine jewelry, 40 to 55% off fashion jewelry and 20% off watches from top brands like Effie, Le Vian, Citizen Fossil and more. Some of the deals I'm loving right now include a $199 True Miracle diamond stud earring set in 14 karat white. So timeless, perfect for gifting. Or if you're thinking bigger, there's a diamond tennis bracelet for $2,499 or a Diamond Halo bridal set for just $1,099. From pendants and rings to drop earrings and lab grown diamonds, this is your moment to shine. The Macy's jewelry sale runs Aug. 14 through Aug. 25. Shop now at macy's.com or in store. So tell me. So you, you do this project, you reimagine the hotel, you do this book project, your friends are coming in and out, you're creating a culture around this hotel. When did you kind of say okay or you and your dad said I'm. You're in the family business now. And when did you sort of like accept, accept that this was your fate? And how, when did you get into the administrative part and start help managing it?
- [24:16]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Well, I think after two years, like the next year that I got into everything else, like the graphics and things, I thought I saw a world of opportunity, right? Of opportunity of expressing myself as well because for me these hotels are really an extension of my interests. So Jurgen came around because I knew and liked his photography. So it's going back to Your first question, it's not studied. It's something that is in my world and I kind of express it then through the hotels. And so it became kind of in some way nearly a playground or a place to really be creative and expressive. And I think that was shortly after when I realized that there's so many departments in hotel. Like there's the front office, there's the housekeeping, there's F and B, there's spa, there's retail. There wasn't, but there now is. But there's all these different areas that are. There are little microcosmos of businesses, right? There's the. The restaurant, there's the bar. And so I thought all of those are places where I can contribute, come up with ideas, express myself and put together there a whole harmony for then the guests to experience. So I think two years in, I was like, oh, God, I love this. Yeah, this is what I want to do because I genuinely really love my job.
- [25:33]
Lauren Sherman
It seems like a really fun job, a really hard job, but a really fun and complex job. That never changes. And you mentioned the Birkenstocks collaboration, but when did you start? Because the hotel merch, that's like a whole industry now.
- [25:52]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
That's huge. It's amazing. Huge.
- [25:55]
Lauren Sherman
But it really did. Did. I mean, obviously forever there has been ugly merch at hotels, but like the, the cool merchant, I. I can't think of another hotel. I order your candle that you did with. It's Byredo that you did it with, right?
- [26:11]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
God, it's good.
- [26:12]
Lauren Sherman
So good. It's so good. And I order that from you once a year, twice a year. There's no other hotel or hotel group in the world that people are seeking out the candle and ordering it online. Maybe cost in Paris is.
- [26:30]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Yeah, they've got a really great smell.
- [26:32]
Lauren Sherman
Yes, it's very good. But when did you start pulling in brands like Birkenstocks and saying, hey, I would like to make a specific product that we'll sell in the store. And then that became a business in and of itself. When did you start developing that and how did it all open up?
- [26:52]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
And so I think again, that was kind of. I saw an opportunity in the physical space of the hotel. We had a shop and I. And you know how hotel shops were always kind of a dead end? Right. You'd go there, you'd never buy anything. And it was kind of a storage of space, basically. And so we. I started doing the buying for the shop. I was like, why? Why can't we, like, get stuff that people would Want to buy anywhere else, like in a city or in. Because they always had the, you know, the bad polos or the bad caps. And. And so I started doing the buying and. And then every year we saw that the numbers were growing, right? The sales were really. And people were excited to get into a hotel. And one of their experiences was also to be able to get a great dress for the evening and. Or hat for the day or so we started mixing in higher and lower brands and I thought, this is so much fun. What a great. Again, a bit of a. Bit of a playground. And there. My interest in fashion obviously came out a lot because I knew a lot of brands. And then our hotel shop got bigger because it was getting into real line of business. And then I think, like 10 years ago, something like that, the first thing I ever did was with Jean and Judith Tuitou, the apc. So I'd known them for a long time and I love them and I love what they do. And so they did our Pellicano merch, the first. You know, they did our caps and our T shirts and they were amazing. And we didn't have an online, we just had it in the shop. And then Olympia Litan, when she was doing her bags, we did the COVID the bag of the book of the pelly for the 50th anniversary. That was. We had that as one of the special things. There's an edition of 10, but all organic. I met Olympia at the hotel and it was all kind of natural. And then slowly, slowly started building up more things. And Birkenstock really was out of necessity because I spent so much time at the hotels and I love Birkenstocks, but they were not that, like, fanciest shoes. And. And I literally called them and someone connected. I had already clear how I wanted the Birkin, so I wanted to do silk ones, I wanted Rafia ones. And it was very. I knew. Exactly. So I remember talking to their head of marketing and I said, you know, I have this hotel and. And they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, I know the filly. Kind of. Do you have any ideas in mind? I hit send and I sent him already. Exactly. Very clear. And so that's how that happened. And we started structuring, I guess that was also a very different scale. Right. Because the APC and Olympia and the other things we'd done were small and just only available in the shops. But also there I saw an opportunity to do fun things and work with great people and great brands. And that's how then our e Commerce came around E. Simon was because of. We were doing on these collaborations and I just wanted to extend online a bit because we have as of now we have only seasonal hotels. So we shut in end of October and reopen in April.
- [30:18]
Lauren Sherman
That Raffia Birkenstock in particular became. I just googled it and I remember it being on Matches and selling out and it was. My friend Erica is a very big fan of. Of your. She. She's been in the content and commerce business for a long time and she's a huge fan of Issimo and. And does all her gifting shopping on. On there. But also I remember when she got them and it was like they have. The interesting thing is that that style is. Now I'm looking just. I googled Pellicano Raffia Birkenstock and not only does Birkenstock do something similar to what you originally did, but there is a Miu Miu one. There is the Staad Birkenstocks that have a similar thing. There is Isabel Marant, Jimmy Choo. It really did. It was a big kind of aesthetic moment. And also I think for Birkenstock they had done collaborations but the proens of schooler ones, Rick Owens, all of this I think it was a real turning point in it feels like for me in your business but also in sort of how consumer culture like it just a change in how people buy things and what they want and how something. An idea can come about because it's not obvious in any way.
- [31:53]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Yeah.
- [31:54]
Lauren Sherman
To be like cool, let's do a collaboration with a hotel.
- [31:58]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Like it's no. I have to say their head of marketing was really. Was really great because yeah it doesn't come. You wouldn't think that especially in 2000. I think now it's quite different. Right. But in 2000 we did that 2017 and then we launched it in 2019 and we launched it with Matches and that was another thing I think that was us doing something with an E Commerce brand was also I guess unexpected. But it was really a fun project and it was really great. And we did all these events. One at Pilicano, one at Pasavecchia and then ended up all on a boat and then ended up at Mezzatore which the year we just got it. So we had this then massive party. So that year I have to. I'll never forget 2019 in terms of workload because we launched Birkenstock and then we did this big collaboration with Matches and then Covid arrived to the surface. I was like oh, No.
- [32:56]
Lauren Sherman
I remember chatting with you about the commerce in particular during COVID And I do think it was a real. In those early days, such a. I don't want to say escape, but it was. There was something about. Because you launched the issimo during. In 2020. Right, right.
- [33:17]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Ten days after lockdown.
- [33:19]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, my God. But I think what it did was it gave people. Because we all thought. I thought. I remember I had a very nice vacation planned for May 31st. And I remember saying to my husband, well, we'll still be able to go to that. And we definitely weren't. It gave people an opportunity to sort of connect with this world that. That they were missing when we were stuck at home. Did you feel like the fact that you launched the Econ during that period that it was in some way. I don't want to say fortunate, but like a good. A lucky coincidence or whatever?
- [34:02]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Yeah, it was. And I think, you know, I also didn't want to do it. I was very nervous because I thought it was not a good idea when what was happening in the world to launch something like that. And then I thought, what am I gonna. You know, it actually could be good. It could be some sort of escapism. And Italy was, you know, the hardest hit at that point. So, yeah, so I, you know, I literally was sitting on the couch doing, you know, social media with two friends, the imaginary road trip in Italy, you know, really trying to push the country and be of support. And so I thought that this is actually good timing. And obviously the very disastrous situation. It was very good timing. It was good escapism, I think. And also people. We have a lot of repeat clients. They, you know, we. No one knew if we'd, you know, where we'd be, if we'd be. And so, you know, I think they're connected to the publicano. So kind of having that keep in touch in some way was important. And we got a lot of very encouraging kind of feedback when we launched it during COVID But, yeah, we were a little nervous because it was what it was. But it was, again, as you said, in some way, fortunate moment.
- [35:22]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I think that connection is the right word. There is something very clear and real about what you do that makes it feel like talking about buying that candle. It's hard for someone like me to get. To get a feeling from something, from buying something at this point. Cause I'm so overexposed to commerce and what people buy. And it's still. There's something magic about how you do it and how you put Everything together. I'm curious, man. In the last 10 years, if you look from 2015 to 2025, travel, tourism to Italy in particular, but to Europe especially. I had some friends who were in Venice pre and post Bezos wedding, and they honestly had an amazing time. But there was a lot of feedback. Like, it's just so many tourists. And there is just this Instagram culture around Italy, which in some ways, like you are part of. Because so many other places are trying to emulate what you do in terms of aesthetic, I'm sure in terms of service, it's much harder to. To manage if you don't have that experience. But what do you think about it? Like, how do you, as someone who is sort of a pillar of Italian tourism or hospitality now, how do you manage being that, but also keep it feeling special and not. Not part of the problem, I guess.
- [37:13]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Yeah, it's a good question. Until the, I think, late 90s, there was a sign at the Pelicano that was kind of red. You know, the red stop sign with a flip phone image in it. Right. And it was done on marble. And so you could not have phones at the hotel. If the phone rang and you were at the beach, everyone would turn around, just shocked. I think manners were very different as well. Right. Because now you have people having speakerphone conversations in restaurants. Thank God it doesn't happen at the Pelicano. But there is something about these phones everywhere that I would like to manage to contain because it's very annoying. But that's. You know, I think anywhere you go again at her hotel, it's not that much. But you. I clearly see a change from 2015 to today. I mean, yeah, it's.
- [38:12]
Lauren Sherman
It's annoying, but it's also this thing of, like, it's all. It's just a. We're all addicted to our phones. So it's this thing of. It is. And. And you. I'm sure you would get a lot of press if you suddenly were like, no one's. You're not allowed to have phones at the pool or whatever. Which is.
- [38:30]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Which is something that I have been thinking about, because I think we'd all lit so much better if we weren't stuck to our phones.
- [38:38]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, well.
- [38:39]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
And I think there's a big awareness of this, though, now. Right. So, I mean, people are aware of how much the phone shrinks your brain, how much you're distracted, how much you're not in the moment. And, And. And there's really this kind of. It's. I. I did a A detox of social media for a month. And it was amazing because I, I took a step back and I realized it's like, you know, it's a portal that you go into this underworld and of so many images of beauty and obviously not right. Everything's extreme. So everyone extremizes the aesthetics of their life. And then you see horror things as well. You see way too much bad stuff too. So everything is really extremized in the underworld, which is the world wide web. And it would be so great to be able to step back and just be in a place and enjoy it. So I have had that thought quite a lot on the phone policy. I will let you know.
- [39:36]
Lauren Sherman
Lauren, it's, it's interesting. When did you take over for your father officially?
- [39:43]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
I mean he's been involved until I think six, seven years ago maybe right that I became the CEO of the company. Think. But I always go to him for, for advice. He's absolutely not involved anymore. But he loves it when I ask him, you know, how to do things. And obviously the company's grown a lot because now we have three hotels, we have Mezzator and we purchased another three.
- [40:10]
Lauren Sherman
So it's amazing. And you, and you got a, you got a decent size investment.
- [40:17]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
I would call that a decent size.
- [40:20]
Lauren Sherman
2,200 million euros or dollars. I don.
- [40:24]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Lot of money, A lot of money to grow the company. And it really is kind of my. My, my dream and my goal is, is to manage to. Especially in a world where everything's getting so flat. Right. And everything's so the same and, and hospitality is booming and is. Is really to have places that keep the DNA of our hotels and that soulfulness and, and kind of family DNA in some way. And it's, it's not family, but it has those values, right? And that curation and that love.
- [41:00]
Grainger
Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download today.
- [41:24]
Dermalogica
Get smoother, brighter skin instantly. In one easy step, Dermalogica's daily microfoliant gives you the smooth, glowy skin you want without damaging your skin barrier. This gentle exfoliating powder activates with water to smooth out rough texture and Brighten skin. It's powerful enough to deliver results, yet gentle enough to use every single day, even on sensitive skin. See the results for yourself. Visit dermalogica.com and use code smooth at cart for an exclusive free gift with $65 purchase.
- [41:57]
Lauren Sherman
You grew up in this business and I see why you've been so successful because you have this. You went to RISD and you have this education in the arts, and then you grew up in hospitality. You didn't need to go to the famous Rhode island hospitality school, which is interesting that you went to school in Rhode island when the famous Rhode. The famous hospitality school is there. But.
- [42:19]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Oh, yes, what is it? What is it called?
- [42:20]
Lauren Sherman
I forget. Honestly.
- [42:22]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Oh, my God, you're right.
- [42:23]
Lauren Sherman
But there is a very famous hospitality school there. There is, but the thing that. And this is a big issue in retail too. Finding your. You have all these hotels now. You're proliferating. How do you find people and train them on the service side? Because you want. You. You. Obviously the reason this has worked is that you have the service piece and then you also have the design and culture piece. So the right people want to come and stay at your hotels, but when they get there, you need to give them a certain level of understanding and comfort. And that is hard to teach people, especially in this era. I see it in retail and I think about it a lot in restaurants. I was at a very famous hotel restaurant in LA yesterday with a friend who goes there every day. And it's a beautiful place. But the service, so bad. Honestly, it was funny because it was just like, whatever. But it's hard to find people who want. Who, like, are passionate about it because it used to be like service industry was. If. If it was in your blood, that's what you did. And I still think there are people like that. But how do you manage that side of the business? Because I'm assuming that's the hardest part in some ways.
- [43:49]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Well, definitely is people. Right? It's finding the right people. It's finding people. So it's all about having a great hr. And also I think we have very much embedded though in Italy, the service culture, we have it very strongly.
- [44:05]
Lauren Sherman
Right.
- [44:05]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Which I think is different. Maybe in the States there's less of a service culture.
- [44:10]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [44:11]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Maybe in LA there's also less of a service culture.
- [44:13]
Lauren Sherman
It's definitely. I think in LA there's less. But I also think I've seen something change in the way people operate in restaurants. And I think a lot of it is. There's just much More transient. We've become much more of a gig economy in the last 10 years. And so people don't. They're not as worried about it because if they're not doing that, they can drive Uber or whatever. I'm not saying, like there's a. There's less secure job security. I'm not saying everything's okay, but I think it's changed service. And I think in la, in particular in New York, there's sort of the Danny Meyer way of doing things. And I think all the other restaurants are influenced by that. And here we have Nancy Silverton is similar, but it's not as. It's not everywhere in the city. It's almost like you expect the service to be bad, which is fine. Like, it doesn't really bother people, I don't think. But it's just. I think it's really noted. Noticeable to me.
- [45:17]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
I think there's a. There's a warmth as well. Right.
- [45:21]
Lauren Sherman
If you. To.
- [45:23]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
To that you can forgive also maybe the five minutes wait, extra weight on your plate or. Because there is a warmth of the staff. I think there is a culture, there is a service culture. And it's also. It's not so regular. Regular lamentato. I don't know how you say that again. There's fewer rules. Like, there's more engagement. So, you know, someone will come in and say, you know, today we just got this great mozzarella. Would you like to try it? Right, so. And it's, It's. They won't necessarily tell everyone, but it's also personalized. So I think it's. Obviously, you need to find the right people and. But you see, we have a lot of young. I was noticing the other day, it was at Pellicano again, and we have a lot of young staff who are really passionate about what they do. And our job is to make people happy in a nutshell. So people who are more inclined to doing that by nature, who are more kind of givers. And so we kind of need to find those people out. But we have a very high staff retention, knock on wood. So it's really nice that they, you know, they keep coming back and it's very nice. I can see it with a lot of guests who come back and they find the same staff and they built relationships, which is lovely.
- [46:50]
Lauren Sherman
Do you also think because you own the hotels, there's so much. I'm endlessly fascinated by the hotel industry, the way the properties will be owned by one person and then a group will own the other. A group will operate it. And then suddenly this hotel that you, I went to forever is a new hotel and all of that. And there's so much kind of changeovers with properties. Do you think the fact that you own own the hotels and that you operate them and that it's a family business in Italy kind of contributes to all of that?
- [47:27]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
I think it's a huge differentiator. I think it's a really big differentiator is if there is a face and an idea behind it of a person and not a spreadsheet. I think clearly that vision and that face need to make the spreadsheet right because it is a business. But you can do that in many different ways. But if you have a face behind it and a person behind it, and they're extensions of people and the owners and you see it in all the family run hotels or hotels that have a vision behind it. You can like them or not, but they're that person. And I think Italy has quite a few of these excellent hotels that, you know, they're a complete reflection of their owner. And that's how the hospitality world really divides.
- [48:21]
Lauren Sherman
I think your spreadsheet has gotten much more computer in the last five years or so. And you're obviously a very just like instinctually ambitious person. But why did you want to do more? Why did you want to bring on an investor? Why did you want to buy more hotels? Because it's very nice for all the people who get to visit them because you do an amazing job. But what is driving you to take it to a different level?
- [48:56]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
You know, when I decided that this is what I was going to do, I really wanted to kind of honor what I learned and honor what I learned from my father and what he managed to do from someone who, which he's a risk taker. He's intuitive. That's all the big lessons I learned from him. And they're very important lessons for me. And that's how he ended up doing the Pellicano, because he was a guest and loved it and he didn't want someone to come in and buy it and butcher it and make it something else, right? And he's. He kind of closed his nose and was like, I know nothing of hospitality. I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna go for it. And first it was instinct, and then he turned it into a very good business. I was always, I'm very close to my father and I was always, I don't know, I feel very honored. I was very lucky to be in the situation. I was in. I loved that place and my mission was to protect it. And I want to do more hotels that have that spirit and that have that emotional connection and that make you feel good, that are not just beautiful marble bathrooms and no substance. And now more than ever in a world that there's so many hotels opening and they're beautiful but I feel everything's getting quite flat. So now more that is where my big kind of engine now is in sacred fire is let's make instead hotels that are do make you feel something and that are special, that are quirky, that are not perfect, that are in locations that are off the beaten track and where there's a million like let's bring travel back and discovery and make your heart beat. That's what it's about. And so, yeah, I guess I'm a little driven, but I do feel really honored and lucky to have been to add the Pellicano. And I'd love to create a few more pellicanos for people to enjoy and feel good in.
- [51:17]
Lauren Sherman
It's interesting.
- [51:18]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Let's have this conversation five years and see if I'm exhausted.
- [51:20]
Lauren Sherman
I can't. I can't wait. I think it's also very interesting because of what is happening in the broader luxury industry right now, which is what you just said about it being flat and not having any questions, quirk and all that. That's what all these big brands are really struggling with right now and are trying to reckon and change and bring back that feeling of like a desire to want to do something. And I haven't spent a lot of time in super, super high end hotels, but I will say I did. I spoke at a conference a few years ago and I got to stay in this very fancy resort in. I'm not going to say where. I don't want to disparage it, but I was and it was, it has all this history and I was like, oh my God, I can't believe I get to stay here for a few nights. And. And honestly I was just like, this is. I would never pay to come here. It was so boring. And, and I think what you do is you make it feel like it's so worth it. Doesn't matter how much it costs. It's worth. Worth it to, to put your. To spend your time there, to put your money into it. And that is, I think people who are really attuned with the culture understand that that's what the. You're sort of trying every day making an argument for why this is worth investing your Time in, let alone your money.
- [52:51]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Yeah, I mean, I, I guess you can say the best. I mean I'm not an expert, but a parallel in fashion, right. You've seen design is kind of, there's different logics now and the design is, is less and less and you find basically similar things everywhere because it's kind of to make everyone happy. And I don't believe, like I want to be brave about it. You know, I want to do something that is probably not for everyone and it's not for everyone. I don't want our hotels to be necessarily for everyone. And I think one should have an opinion. And again, so I'm very excited about it and especially now that we got these amazing places and the architecture is extraordinary and it was fun. We saw this broker one day and he was like, so tell me what your guidelines are.
- [53:40]
Lauren Sherman
Right?
- [53:41]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
And I was like, what does that mean? And he's like, well, how many, what's the minimum of bedrooms that, you know, size, bedroom size? And I said, well, I don't, that like I'm looking for unique places, so that defeats, I mean, I'm not going to find, I don't, that's, you know, it took me a while. I was like, what does he mean? And then he said, no, because all these hotel groups have very specific standards.
- [54:04]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [54:05]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
And I said, I, I, I just need this minimum amount of rooms. I don't need a specific size. I don't need, I'm looking for something really that is a unpolished gem that needs to be polished. And that's, you know, when we opened the Mezzatore, when people knew we were opening in East Kia, they were like, why are you opening in Ischia? Said, well, why not? Like, why would I go to beautiful Capri? But why would I do that? There's 50 hotels.
- [54:36]
Lauren Sherman
And now Ischia is.
- [54:40]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Very hot, is so hot. And it deserves, it is amazing.
- [54:46]
Lauren Sherman
I think you're very brave. And I also think that being specific makes things feel more universal because the more specific things are, the more special and the more connected the people who go feel.
- [55:01]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
So I, I, yeah, I don't, I don't personally like low hanging fruit in general, so we can't do that. It has to be specific.
- [55:11]
Lauren Sherman
Well, I look forward to seeing all the places that you make for yourself.
- [55:17]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
For you to come see us.
- [55:19]
Lauren Sherman
I need to, I really need to. I'm gonna be in Europe next year for some time, so I'll, oh well, please come visit. I will, I will. It's so nice to catch up with you and thank you for taking the time and thank you for what you do.
- [55:32]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Thank you, Lauren. Thank you for what you do. I love reading you. Absolutely love it. And this was a real honor and what a great chat.
- [55:41]
Lauren Sherman
You all are the best. And it was such a pleasure and congratulations. It's really awesome.
- [55:47]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Grazia. We'll keep you posted.
- [55:49]
Lauren Sherman
We'll talk soon.
- [55:50]
Marie Louise Sky Ghio
Mama. Ciao.
- [55:53]
Lauren Sherman
Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.
- [56:20]
Grainger
If you're a lineman in charge of keeping the lights on, Grainger understands that you go to great lengths and sometimes height to ensure the power is always flowing. Which is why you can count on Grainger for professional grade products and next day delivery. So you have everything you need to get the job done. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.