Veronica Swanson Beard (4:03)

Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.

Lauren Sherman (4:05)

What'd you have for breakfast this morning?

Veronica Swanson Beard (4:07)

I don't eat breakfast. I have coffee.

Lauren Sherman (4:10)

Do. Have you ever eaten breakfast or is this a new thing?

Veronica Swanson Beard (4:13)

No, I used to eat breakfast. I was like a big eggs and bacon and avocado person. And then I had to do a lot of, a lot of health stuff about five years ago, and I found out that those were like, incredibly bad for me eggs. I'm like allergic to them. I have thyroid issues and.

Lauren Sherman (4:34)

Okay.

Veronica Swanson Beard (4:35)

And so, so I took out breakfast and started intermittent fasting. And it really changed my life. I love it.

Lauren Sherman (4:44)

I agree. I also do it not as I still eat a lot of eggs and avocado and bacon.

Veronica Swanson Beard (4:51)

I love it, but I just don't eat it.

Lauren Sherman (4:53)

So good. Yeah, I mean, it's how you're, sometimes your body wants the thing that's not good for it. But. Yeah. I feel like the intermittent fasting thing comes up with this question quite a bit. And it, to me, it's just a thing of like, your body feels better if you, if you don't eat a lot before bed and you wait a little bit in the morning. I don't know. It's, it's, it's true.

Veronica Swanson Beard (5:21)

Although I will. I, I'm lying to you because it is International Bagel Day and I did have a bagel. I just Forgot.

Lauren Sherman (5:27)

Oh, that's allowed.

Veronica Swanson Beard (5:29)

I mean. I mean, Papa bagels. Have you had papa bagels? No.

Lauren Sherman (5:33)

Is. Are they good? I've had Apollo in New York.

Veronica Swanson Beard (5:37)

Well, Apollo's like. I mean, Apollo's incredible, but pop up bagel, they are warm all the time, like just out of the oven constantly. And so you don't toast them and you just rip them off and dip them in cream cheese.

Lauren Sherman (5:50)

Oh, that sounds good. Yeah, it sounds better than avocado and bacon.

Veronica Swanson Beard (5:54)

Yeah, it is.

Lauren Sherman (5:55)

It is. So I've known you for a long time.

Veronica Swanson Beard (5:59)

Yeah, I know you've seen this. Jurgen.

Lauren Sherman (6:02)

Yes. You're one of the co founders of Veronica Beard, and you are also the creative director. Is that your title or is it like chief creative officer or something?

Veronica Swanson Beard (6:12)

We're co CEO and co founder. I mean, I like Veronica and I don't really. I mean, we have so many. Wear so many different hats that. But, you know, I love anything creative, so.

Lauren Sherman (6:25)

Got it.

Veronica Swanson Beard (6:26)

Okay.

Lauren Sherman (6:27)

So, yeah, I remember the first time I interviewed you all and. And that was. And we can kind of get into that. Cause co, CEO, co founder, those relationships are. Everyone is so different. Some people sort of split it down the middle. Some people, it's a little bit more fluid. But I know you've told this story a million times. Do you want to kind of tell the origin story in a bite size? Yeah.

Veronica Swanson Beard (6:54)

Yeah. So Veronica and I are married to brothers. And that's how we have the same name. And we, you know, have different. Different backgrounds, different career paths. Veronica was in finance. She worked in many different finance positions. But right before we started, she was helped to found CO2, which is an incredible hedge fund. Tech hedge fund with Philippe Lafont. And Veronica is smart and incredible with all the things that I am very afraid of and not fluent in. And I have a fashion background, have wanted to do what we're doing since I was 4 years old. I think really since I can remember, I've been obsessed with fashion. The way that fashion makes you feel. Style, women, expression, all that stuff. And after I went to Tulane, and then after Tulane, I moved to New York to go to Parsons and did. Was doing the merchandising program at Parsons, worked there for a year and then started interning at Narciso Rodriguez. And at the end of my internship, they offered me a job. So I dropped out of Parsons to take the job because I was like, this is my moment. I'm getting into the fashion world now. And worked in wholesale. I went to IFA and worked in wholesale for Narciso. And Alberta Ferretti. And then I became a buyer for Marissa Collections, which is an amazing specialty store in Naples, Florida.

Lauren Sherman (8:42)

Yes. How did that happen? Did they. And they were cool with you being.

Veronica Swanson Beard (8:47)

In New York, so Marissa. So I grew up in. I grew up in Naples, Florida, London and San Francisco.

Lauren Sherman (8:55)

Okay.

Veronica Swanson Beard (8:55)

And I had known Marissa my whole life, and she was sort of this, like, you know, fashion fairy godmother in my life. I loved her store. Her son is still one of my best friends. She got me my first internship working for Oscar de la Renta. And she was just always this amazing, like, she didn't have a daughter. And I think that every time that we were together, we talked about this, and it was just a bond that we had. And when I started buying for her, obviously her store is very designer. Incredible. I mean, she was one of the first vendors of Michael Kors, but just had this incredibly loyal customer that was very, very designer. And contemporary was just starting then. And I was obsessed with contemporary because it was, you know, 2004 and 2004, 2005, and it was like, you know, Alex Wang and Philip Lim and all of this, like, amazing, you know, next generation of contemporary fashion. Helmut. Helmut Lange. I mean, now it's like, scoop. It was Scoop and Intermix days and all of those things. And. And to me, it was just really. It felt so relevant and so important that she, you know, explore that more. So I became her buyer in New York, and I was based here for those brands. And then I would go and do, you know, designer with her in Europe. But that's how I started as a buyer. And I think for me, that was like, the greatest to have both sides of the coin before starting this business.

Lauren Sherman (10:36)

Yeah. And so interesting for you to kind of come up during the rise of that mid market and. Or, I mean, it's upper mid. Yeah, it's like mid market. Sometimes when I say that people are like, no, J. Crew is mid market.

Veronica Swanson Beard (10:49)

That's right, it is.

Lauren Sherman (10:51)

But it's interesting knowing what you ended up going to do, how that must have informed your sort of view of the. Of the industry and what the customer wanted, because those brands weren't, like, crazy expensive.

Veronica Swanson Beard (11:07)

No, but. But it was. That was when we started. So in 2010, the hot. You know, the hot thing was opening designer. And so that's where we started. That was our positioning. And it was right after 08, and we were, you know, with our, you know, producing in New York and our margins, we couldn't. We couldn't be advanced Contemporary Just because our pricing wouldn't come in at that, at that level. But we thought that there was just this little window that we could get in into opening designer, which was, you know, a lot of the brands at that time.

Lauren Sherman (11:42)

What can you explain the difference between contemporary, advanced contemporary and opening designer and designer?

Veronica Swanson Beard (11:49)

And it's such a crazy thing because. So it's really ruled that the, the positioning of all these brands is really ruled by real estate in department stores. Right. So it's like you're on the designer floor and it's really like kind of a vertical situation more than it is a horizontal like real estate in a store situation. So there's the designer floor, then there's a contemporary floor and there was an opening designer floor which was sort of in between the two floors. And you know, it's sort of old luxuries designer, younger, newer brands or contemporary or opening designer at this point. And it was all about your price point, the clothes that you were making. And for us at that point, we only had a jacket, our Dickey jacket. And it was 695 when we started. So it was expensive. I mean, it was expensive. We're still very expensive. You know, it's. When you say, you know, mid tier, it isn't mid tier for most. So.

Lauren Sherman (13:01)

Yeah. So tell me about the Dickie jacket and what was. Because everybody kind of knows it, knows you all for it. But like, what was the response to it when you started?

Veronica Swanson Beard (13:12)

Like, oh my God. Well, it was, I mean, we were a terrible lookbook that is like burned and taken off the Internet and you'll never find it. So don't look for it. But we had, we started. So basically the diggy jacket existed in menswear, that concept. There was a lot of, you know, European jackets that had menswear jackets that had like zip out pieces, but they weren't, they weren't sort of multifunction. They weren't. There weren't multiple options. And it didn't exist for women that we've, that we could find. We scoured the world and it was just sort of this concept of like that piece, like a man's suit that you put on and you are immediately dressed like you could be in leggings and sneakers going to a soul cycle class and you have on a blue blazer with a gray hood and you could, you know, drop your kids off, run into a meeting at work, you know, wear it through the day, take the dickie off and you know, be in jeans and heels at night. It was this idea, you Know, Veronica always says it's our Wonder Woman cape. And. And it really was then, when. When we. When we started, I think it was. It was so different, and it was so tactile because you would see it on a rack, and it was a navy blazer, but there was this big, chunky fisherman sweater coming out of the top. And at that point, we had cuffs that also came out of it. And we've since removed the cuffs because it became sort of a disaster. Like, you know, for merchandising purposes, they get lost. But so it was this amazing piece that, you know, you wanted to go over and touch and see what it was all about. And so that first season we had. Our first market was held in. In my apartment. And at the end of that market, we had eight accounts. One of them was Saks. And we were like, oh, my God, no. We have a business. We have to produce, and we have to ship to Sachs. Like, what is going to happen? And Veronica, you know, I always say those days were the best days because we didn't know what we didn't know, and we didn't know how hard it was gonna be to do what we've done. And it's been the ride of a lifetime. We've had the most fun. It's. We've had the most incredible team. We've loved it. But thank God we didn't know then, you know, what we know now. And Saks, we figure out finally how to, like, ship to Saks, deliver to Saks after, you know, shipments are returned to us, because we don't have, you know, the right system. And, I mean, all of the things I wish there were, there was video of us really building this the first two years, because it would have been a funny show, but we had 100% sell through at Saks our first season. And that's when we knew, like, okay, this is going to be something. And it, you know, still to this day, the Dicky jacket is our signature piece. But the brand obviously has grown into a full lifestyle collection. And. And it's, you know, it's just continues to evolve. And I think that the, you know, what's amazing is that Dicky jacket, the versatility, the lifestyle, the ease, you know, the efficiency of it, all of those things are, like, major brand pillars for us. And when we look at our marketing materials from 15 years ago, they're the same as they are today. Yeah. So that's. That's pretty good that it's stood the test of time.

Lauren Sherman (17:05)

So when that came out, did a Lot of people copy it. And also, how do you think? Because when I think of it, I think of this dickie jacket or even like any women's clothing dickies. I think of you all and I can't think of another brand that has like, that even offers it. I'm sure there are many, but how much, how quickly was it copied? And two, why do you think you've been able to sort of corner that market? Because it does make a lot of sense from a practicality perspective.

Veronica Swanson Beard (17:42)

Well, I think that it actually wasn't copied. Right. Right out of the gate. There have been, there have been a lot of versions of our jacket over the years at different price points. And look, I mean, fashion is constantly reinventing the wheel, right? So it's, it's, it's okay. It's okay if, if things get, you know, if we're copied, things get copied. It's, you know, it, it happens. But, but I think that for us, it's so much more. It's so ingrained in the brand. Like the, the, the value of the jacket and what it stands for is just a metaphor for our customer and the lifestyle. And this woman and, you know, she's this, you know, multi hyphenate woman who, you know, time is money and she wants to look good and feel good and do good and get out there and do her thing. And I think that that jacket, the ease of it, is what we look for in this brand in so many different ways. So I think it's so authentic that even if someone else does make a dicky jacket and there's plenty, I mean, even recently, there's, you know, mew Mew. There's so many brands that are doing things like it and, you know, they all have their own version. But I think ours is so ours in the same way that you look at a polo and you think of Ralph Lauren or, you know, a. What's it called? A cable knit sweater, you think Ralph, Ralph Lauren. And there's certain, there are certain fashion pieces that are just so true to brands that even if you make it exactly the same, you can tell the difference, you know?

Lauren Sherman (19:24)

Totally. Totally. Yeah, it's, it's because it doesn't have a logo. It doesn't have it, but it is something that you all really own.

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Dan Hanzus (20:45)

The NFL Playoffs are here and Heed the Call NFL Podcast with Dan Hanzus.

Veronica Swanson Beard (20:49)

And Mark Sessler is your destination for.

Dan Hanzus (20:51)

Coverage of every round from Wild Card weekend to Super Bowl Sunday.

Veronica Swanson Beard (20:55)

He the Call covers every game, every storyline, everything that matters. And we have fun. No fake hot takes, just entertaining football talk from your favorite buds at the bar.

Dan Hanzus (21:04)

Wait, Mark, which bar?

Veronica Swanson Beard (21:06)

Well, like the typical neighborhood bar where the witty sports guys at a place like that.

Dan Hanzus (21:10)

Ah, I like that. Follow and listen to Heed the Call wherever you get your podcasts.

Lauren Sherman (21:18)

How quickly from there. So I know you you adjusted the pricing a little bit at one point and that was a big turning point. We I did a story with you all on that.

Veronica Swanson Beard (21:27)

I remember that was a huge moment for us that that changed everything.

Lauren Sherman (21:33)

So tell me about when you realized you knew when Saks bought in that it was gonna be a thing. When did you realize that this was gonna be like a big brand that wasn't just gonna be on the racks of Saks, but that you were gonna have many of your own stores and that, I mean you generate hundreds of millions of dollars a year in revenue now and are a sort of go to brand for a large group of women. When did you feel like, okay, this is we can really do this?

Veronica Swanson Beard (22:11)

I mean, I think we hopefully are never there that we're like, oh, we're done. We've made it. You know.

Lauren Sherman (22:19)

Yeah.

Veronica Swanson Beard (22:20)

But I think that in 2013 that is when we changed our pricing from opening Designer to advanced contemporary. And when we're talking again about the, you know, floor space in a department store, which is where we were sold. We were when we started we were 100% wholesale. And so our positioning was really dictated by where the department stores wanted to have us. And we started out opening designer, went to, made the decision to switch to Advance Contemporary because just from a footfall perspective, the business was. There was so much more traffic and business to be done on that floor in that area. And at the same time, we had taken on our investors, who are still our minority investors today, which are Andrew Rosen, Lou Frankfurt, John Howard, and Kajak Kolashian. And they were.

Lauren Sherman (23:24)

Kajak was Intermix, right?

Veronica Swanson Beard (23:26)

Yep.

Lauren Sherman (23:27)

Cool.

Veronica Swanson Beard (23:27)

And so Kajak was our. Our account. You know, we sold to Intermix, had an amazing business with Intermix, and he and I had known each other from when I was a buyer. And. And so we had, you know, a working friendship and then we had a partnership with Intermix. And for me, I was always very, very, very aware of the players in the industry who was going. Like, I had a vision board of what we needed for this business. And it really included Andrew Rosen and John Howard at the time, because those guys were doing all of the deals. And I knew, like, Andrew was.

Lauren Sherman (24:16)

And to this day, yeah, every week I said to one of their brands the other day, I was like, the only people I write about are Bernard Arnaud and Andrew Rosen.

Veronica Swanson Beard (24:27)

And really, I mean, he was, you know, that article. He was the godfather of contemporary fashion. And he is. And it was just like, if we could get them, we were going to make it. And we did. And, and we lowered our prices. We had the, like, the conviction and, and the, you know, the bravery to do it after they became our. Our investors. And, and I think it was probably a year after that when everything started to, like, really move. And then we opened, you know, our first store in 2015 that was a pop up, which then became our Madison Avenue flagship. So 2016, we really started opening stores. And I think once we started opening the stores and the, the shift happened from, you know, majority wholesale to this mix of. Of direct and wholesale, and we were able to, like, own our destiny and the conversation a little bit more. That's when I think we all knew this is. This is going to. This is going to happen.

Lauren Sherman (25:43)

What's interesting about Veronica Beard to me.

Veronica Swanson Beard (25:46)

Is.

Lauren Sherman (25:48)

Yes, you two are smart. You executed well. You got the right investors. Lou Frankfurt, the other investor, was CEO of Coach. He has a family office. He sometimes invests with Andrew. And, and like, all. All makes sense to build, like a big American brand. At some point you all started to. It's like you created a Market for. It's so hard to explain. The only thing I would say is that I went to the Chanel show in. I went to the Chanel show in New York and I talked and there were a bunch of clients at the party after and I talked to a bunch of them just like off the record to hear about what they thought about the new Chanel. And these are people who were invited to the show. So they, they buy enough to be invited or potentially buy it. Could buy it. And so in this one I talked to probably someone, you know. Honestly, I didn't ask her name, so I can't even tell you afterwards who it was. But I asked her, like, what do you wear? Like what do you buy? And she said, she said, well, I buy a couple things from Chanel. She wears vintage suits from another designer brand. And she said during the day though, I wear Veronica Beard. And she named two of your competitors and the two competitors that she named which are great brands too. They were founded long after you. And I think that you all created this market for people day to day. Maybe don't feel comfortable wearing head to toe designer anymore no matter how much money they have. And you created this market of contemporary always existed. But there's something a little different than like say another Andrew brand theory, which is. Was like very much for lawyers or we buy your first suit from theory. It's very minimalist or something more casual like rag and bone or what have you. If you just want to name all Andrew Gross. But it was like the dress up woman who's an adult, what she wants to wear. And now there is, it's a more crowded market. But what do you think, like psychologically you all got that made it hit so hard. Do you think it's because you were the customer?

Veronica Swanson Beard (28:24)

Yes, but I think also any female designer founder would say that they're the customer. I think what we've done differently is we are so obsessed with this customer's lifestyle, with this woman all the. I mean it's not. Yes, Veronica and I inform a lot of the brand, but it's really this. I always think of Chuck Close pieces of art. Like when you, when you look, when you stand far away from looks like one person and when you get up to it, it's a million, a million portraits. Right. And I think that that is really how Veronica Beard is. It is this army of women that, that are busy, that like love life, that have a ton going on, have family, careers, their community, all these things. They want to look good, they want amazing Pieces that are cool and classic, that they're not going to be like, oh, my God, I can't believe I bought that last. Last month or last week or last year. You know, they're things that stand the test of time, that have, you know, I think cultural and trend relevancy, but they're, you know, you look back at the. At like the great American brands and whether it's Gap or J. Crew or Ralph Lauren or, you know, Michael Kors. I mean, Michael Kors was for me growing up, my mother and, you know, we're, you know, working with Marissa. That was like that brand that you. That women went to, you know, for that. For that same sort of thing. And I think women that can afford luxury are smart. You know, they're not. They're not wealthy because they're. They're not smart. You know, it's like they're wealthy because someone's wealthy. I mean, someone's smart, you know, So I think women don't make stupid decisions about their clothes or about their lifestyle. And I think that for us, it's really like outfitting this woman, and it's this intuitive relationship that we have with her. Like, we know every season it starts off like, what is she doing? Where is she going? What does she need? What's happening from a trend perspective that we can infuse in a way that. That is going to feel now but not like regret that we did it later, you know, And. And I think that there's so much out there, you know, today. I mean, God, we were in a meeting the other day just talking about, like, the way. The way in which you have to speak to a customer today. I mean, it's. It is forget. I mean, forget sending an email. You feel like that doesn't even work anymore because people's inboxes are so flooded that, like, you can hardly get through your email inbox, you know, so it is for us, like, being in her path, being in her community, we have built this community of women that are so loyal that, you know, really trust us as a resource to give them the pieces that they need to get to their life. And that is. That is like the defining factor of our brand. And every design meeting and every marketing meeting and every business meeting is about that.

Lauren Sherman (32:04)

How have you. You obviously started in wholesale and moved into more DTC. The wholesale business in the last 15 years has changed. Changed so much. But it's still. I mean, for Andrew's brands in particular, it's still a big part of their business. He. We're recording this the week of the Sachs, the Sachs bankruptcy filing and there have been many charts of the top 10 most owed vendors and the third person after which I, I just, I kind of loved to show his power. But after Chanel and Kering was Rosinex. So like all of his brands together and look like these brands at the top are gonna get paid back. And that's one of the reasons it's not actually a terrible thing to be owed a lot of money right now because you're gonna probably get a lot of it back versus the smaller brands that aren't gonna get as much. But anyway, the point being that like wholesale is still. I don't know what the percentage of your business. But like as you guys have, have, as you all have moved through this, how have you, how have you like reckoned with that change in consumer behavior and figured out how to connect directly with the customer? Because there's obviously paid advertising, but even for a brand as big as yours, like there are limits to that stuff. How do you think about it?

Veronica Swanson Beard (33:41)

I think that for us, we, we always talk about it being an, an Omni experience. We want to be wherever she is shopping. So if she shops at department stores, we want her to have the best Veronica Beard offering there. If she's an online shopper, that veronicabeard.com is the most frictionless, easy best way for her to shop or in our stores that she has a really luxury retail experience there. And, and I think with regard to wholesale, wholesale was the greatest thing we ever did. It was how we started our business. It was all of the eyeballs. It was marketing that that cost less than anything we could have ever done. You know, it was a, it was a, it was a market of people that were qualified to buy our product. And it's, it was the, I mean truly, it was the best foundation for our business. It was, you know, being in a, in a department store, you have the seal of approval of, of an industry of, of these stores, you know. And so for us, we've been through Neiman Marcus's bankruptcy, now this one, we are like, we love a comeback story. We are praying and rooting and know like Geffroy, we love the whole team that is coming back. We love and we're so excited to rebuild. The challenge of a rebuild, I think makes you better and makes you stronger. And I think that in so many ways, having come from, you know, fashion in, you know, the 90s and the aughts, I feel like I hope that there's more department stores and more specialty stores. I miss all of those multi brand specialty stores so much. You know, I think that the edit, whether it's online or in person, is, is so special in fashion. So that being said, I think wholesale in general has such an opportunity to. I wish, I wish Andrew had it in him to do one more multi brand store.

Lauren Sherman (36:08)

Yeah.

Veronica Swanson Beard (36:08)

But you know, I think, I think that, I think that Saks, Saks Global is going to come back and it's going to be great and we're excited for it.

Dan Hanzus (36:22)

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Voiceover Announcer (38:09)

I know.

Veronica Swanson Beard (38:10)

Where do you shop in LA now?

Lauren Sherman (38:12)

Like I like. Where do I like? I like Brentwood Country.

Veronica Swanson Beard (38:17)

Mark.

Lauren Sherman (38:17)

I went there over the Christmas break. It took me, you know how long it Took me to get home from there. I live. And I wasn't. I was going to Silver Lakes, which is Silver Lake, which is like 20, 15 minutes closer. Took me an hour and 15 minutes over the holiday break to go from Brentwood to silver lake at 4:00pm yeah.

Veronica Swanson Beard (38:36)

You're like, I want to go out again.

Lauren Sherman (38:37)

Yeah. My friend was like, this would have been two hours. But, you know, honestly, I don't want to go to Beverly Hills to go shopping. I shop at Just One Eye sometimes. There's Mohawk General on the east side. But I would say, like, in car culture, I go to this vintage store scout that a lot of people shop at and there's some vintage, good vintage in LA Varsity. But I would say, like, car culture makes you not go. I only really shop when I'm in New York or in, in Europe. And I think that's the difference is like, it's just, it. It doesn't lend itself to you. You have to make a really amazing thing. There's even, there's an amazing store called I think Mame or something in, in West Hollywood, Beverly Hills that sells Phoebe and all these cool brands. I haven't been.

Veronica Swanson Beard (39:31)

You're like, I can't go. No.

Lauren Sherman (39:33)

Which is like, if I lived in New York, I would have been there. It was in New York, I would have gone already. Right. So I'm just curious, like, how do you think the map should look?

Veronica Swanson Beard (39:42)

You know, I mean, it's interesting. I think that I love shopping in Europe because I love concessions. I think it's amazing to have to have all these brands together in one situation space, but that each brand gets to look its own way. I think that it gives a lot of, a lot of differentiation and sort of like you can kind of like heat map on a, on a store floor where people go, rather than in a department store where it's like, you know, just sort of spread out and all the products everywhere. I think that that that is harder today. I think that there's so many options now that it's hard. And I think that actually that that has worked in our advantage because people, when there's so much, you kind of actually like start to self edit, you know, and you're like, what do I, what do I. Like, what do I want? What. Where am I going to go back to? Where am I going to go back to? Because I'm like overwhelmed by all the options, you know, and, and I think for, for us, our customer knows our fit and our quality and our pieces are things that she's going to walk in and she can get her like everyday wardrobe. Like she can get that. She can also get an amazing cocktail dress. She can get, you know, a knit set that she's going to wear on an airplane and you know, awesome sneakers and great boots and you know, we make jewelry and we've got, you know, so you've got a lot of different pieces. So it ends up being that like instead of going to eight different stores to have to get all these different things, you can shop a lot of those at our store. And so it just becomes like an easier resource, I think for a lot of women. We also happen to be in, you know, in her path a lot. Like, you know, we opened our stores in areas that we know that she is and that, you know, she's going to get her coffee and her has dropped her kids off and she's, you know, walking to her exercise class or leaving her exercise class or you know, in between meetings. And so our, I think our real estate and our store locations are very strategic for that reason. And I think that the wholesale business is going to have to get a little, it's almost gonna have to get a little bit more selective and edited. You know, I think it's gonna, you, you need people to go there for a reason. You want them to go and like be like, oh my God, fashion again, like I get to see it all together, you know. Yeah, you don't get to see it together a lot of places except for online, which is a different experience, you know.

Lauren Sherman (42:35)

Totally. When you think about like you have investors, you're a big business. Every couple of years there's some report that you, you all are going to have a banker or whatever. When you think about growth, like do you think this can be a billion dollar a year in sales brand and how would you get there? Or are you more focused on, on making it incredibly profitable? Like how do you, you, how are you all thinking about growth for 2026, for instance, and how, how are you going to get to where you want to be?

Veronica Swanson Beard (43:11)

Well, we definitely think about profitability all the time and we think about growth all the time and I think we don't. Yes, I think we can be a billion dollar business and I think we can be a lot of things. I think we're very, very careful and strategic about how we do it. We really invest in our team. We do a lot of research about category expansion, about geographic expansion. We are meticulous about our decisions for the brand. And I think that for us, I think we're Going to focus more in 2020 sex on our customer than we ever have. And that's going to come from, you know, a lot of brand, a lot of consumer things, a lot of, you know, styling things, a lot of expansion in markets. And I can't give away all the secrets, but where do I wind it? But you will definitely see them coming by September, October. But yes. No, we're. We're like. We are. We are super ambitious. And I think that those rumors about, you know, bankers and partners and all that kind of stuff, you know, that's. People just thinking that that's the next thing that should happen. And I don't think that that's. I don't think that's the path for every brand. You know, I think we are so. We're such mama bears about this brand, and we are so protective of it. We would never allow it to get in the hands of anybody that would. Would mess with it because we'd be messing with our customer.

Lauren Sherman (45:05)

Well, also, you didn't start a brand to sell it.

Veronica Swanson Beard (45:09)

No.

Lauren Sherman (45:09)

Which a lot of people do.

Veronica Swanson Beard (45:11)

Right. It's true.

Lauren Sherman (45:14)

And so. And it feels like you all want to be in it no matter what, which is exciting.

Veronica Swanson Beard (45:20)

It would be a weird. I think it would be a very weird thing to walk away from this. It's just so much of our. It's so much of our. Our beings, our life, our family. You know, it's like everything sort of is blended. And it's not like work and, you know, our private life and our work. It's. Veronica and I share the same name. You know, we. We do everything together. We share an office. We sit at two desks next to each other. And. And we are. And we are married in so many ways, more than we're even married to our husbands, you know, and. And it is. It's. It's an incredible story of, you know, family and friendship and belief and team and. And vision and, like, going for it. You know, it's like we're always like, how do you do it? How'd you do it with eight kids? Well, it's like, you don't. You just do it, you know?

Lauren Sherman (46:20)

Yeah.

Veronica Swanson Beard (46:20)

Make it happen. Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (46:22)

I guess my final question for you is you have been in business for a long time together. You are family. You're. You're married to brothers. Like, you have eight kids between you. Like, how have you all stuck it out together? Because most people wouldn't be able to. And it's not because, like, there's anything wrong with them. It's because, like, that kind of relationship is hard to maintain. Especially you have. You're just so enmeshed, like, how. What do you think it is about your dynamic that has allowed it. You to keep moving forward together?

Veronica Swanson Beard (47:01)

I think that it's so funny sometimes I think Veronica and I have almost disassociated from our name in such a way that it is this other person. And it is. And I think that that's what works. It's like, we are in service of this woman. You know, we are in service of this woman who is the heroine of our story, and she's. She's making it happen, and she's living her life, and we want her to have awesome clothes that she does her thing in. And it's not about our logo being on her back. Yeah. Our jackets on her back. But, like, it's all about, you know, word of mouth comes because somebody notices something, Right? So it's like they notice, like, how great you look and, like, whatever you're doing. And then they'll ask you, oh, my God, what is that? What is that thing that you're wearing? And they tell you, oh, it's Veronica Beard. And that woman then goes and buys it. You know, it's. It isn't. We make great clothes, but it's the women that wear our clothes that are our greatest asset.

Lauren Sherman (48:15)

I think you're your greatest asset.

Veronica Swanson Beard (48:17)

But no.

Lauren Sherman (48:20)

Veronica, thank you so much. This was so fun. Congratulations on everything. I look forward to seeing the next phase, and it's been fun to be a bystander on this journey with you.

Veronica Swanson Beard (48:31)

Thank you. Well, it's been so. It's been so fun watching you, and I'm so. I'm so amazed by all that you've accomplished and created and. And actually, like, totally changing the game, too.

Lauren Sherman (48:43)

So thank you.

Veronica Swanson Beard (48:44)

Well, I think, for including us.

Lauren Sherman (48:45)

Thank you. Well, I think we're in a. In a lucky generation where we know the past, but we also see the future.

Veronica Swanson Beard (48:52)

I know, and I feel so lucky to have that. I really do. And, like, I think we can draw so much from that, too. And bring it forward.

Lauren Sherman (49:02)

Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman, and Bob Tabador.

Dan Hanzus (49:29)

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