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Fashion People
The Demna-at-Gucci Bombshell and All the Other Stuff That Happened During Fashion Month
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- [00:00]
Lauren Sherman
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Mel Ottenberg
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- [01:35]
Lauren Sherman
Welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet and today with me on the show is Interview Editor in Chief Mel Ottenberg to talk all things Fashion Month from Marc Jacobs all the way to St. Laurent. Plus we'll discuss Dario de Versace, Damna Noguchi, and so much more. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world and much More. If you're interested listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go to Puck News Fashion People to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday everyone. Apologies for the slight chaos in this End of Fashion Month episode with Mel. As you will see, as Mel and I were chatting the news that Demna is the new creative director of Gucci Broke and we were able to process it in real time. You can read how the appointment went down in Thursday's Line sheet at puc, which also has additional info about Frederic Arnault's Laura Piana appointment, Dariel Vitali of Versace, and plenty more. Just a reminder to everyone that most of this stuff was mentioned or reported on in Line Sheet. Sometimes days, sometimes weeks, sometimes months before it was was talked about anywhere else. So it has been quite, quite a month for me. Quite a month for you. And thanks to Mel for breaking it all down with me. Mel Ottenberg, welcome back to Fashion People.
- [03:45]
Dario Vitale
Thank you so much for having me, Lauren Sherman. It's good to be here.
- [03:49]
Lauren Sherman
Are we both not wearing pants?
- [03:51]
Dario Vitale
I am not wearing pants. I'm happy to say that I'm wearing shorts. What are you wearing?
- [03:55]
Lauren Sherman
I'm wearing gym shorts with my. We both have shirts on, like collared button ups.
- [04:01]
Dario Vitale
Let's do a quick fit check. I'm wearing a shirt, a husband's shirt, and Ron Dorf shorts.
- [04:08]
Lauren Sherman
Wow. I'm wearing a Charvet shirt, a Uniqlo Heat tech turtleneck, and Amazon shorts.
- [04:16]
Dario Vitale
Look at us.
- [04:18]
Lauren Sherman
It's good. This is actually good. Too bad we're not recording this. So you're. You're on vacation. Do you want to talk about that or. No?
- [04:26]
Dario Vitale
We can. I'm on a vacation in an undisclosed location. I really want this fucking phone to. I want to. I want like in White Lotus. I want them to lock up my phone. But like, I can't. I can't.
- [04:39]
Lauren Sherman
I know.
- [04:40]
Dario Vitale
Or I want them to. This is my dream.
- [04:43]
Lauren Sherman
And right now, not only do you have real work stuff, but there's also all these. I'm getting constant texts because there are all these announcements happening today that we're going to get into later.
- [05:01]
Dario Vitale
What a lucky day for me to be on the Fashion People podcast is all I say.
- [05:07]
Lauren Sherman
Agreed. I mean, this is going to become a biannual thing for us, I think. Like just talking about everything that happened this season, starting all the way in New York, which, first of all, do you realize that today this is going to be published on Friday, March 14? We started Fashion Month on February 3 at the MARC Jacobs show. Damn it's not helpful.
- [05:37]
Dario Vitale
Long time.
- [05:39]
Lauren Sherman
It's not healthy.
- [05:41]
Dario Vitale
It's not healthy. It's too long. I feel great today, though. I was so psyched by the end. Like, on Tuesday, Monday and Tuesday. I was like, yeah, yeah.
- [05:53]
Lauren Sherman
I thought the shows at the end were actually kind of made me excited about fashion again in some ways. But let's. Maybe we should start with New York and we can zip through and then focus on Paris, because there was a lot of news and a lot of good things happening. But in New York, what were the highlights for you? What do you remember from a month and a half ago when it happened?
- [06:22]
Dario Vitale
Well, the Marc Jacobs show is definitely the hottest ticket in town, and we know that. I really like the Coach show. I'm really attracted to real clothes right now and, like, proportion, silhouette. And I. I thought I liked it. I like the Coach show.
- [06:42]
Lauren Sherman
You know what I forgot to ask you is what you had for breakfast.
- [06:46]
Dario Vitale
Oh, wait, hold on. Back up. I had. I had a traditional Moroccan breakfast and a Turkish coffee.
- [07:01]
Lauren Sherman
That sounds so good.
- [07:03]
Dario Vitale
Oh, my God. It was amazing.
- [07:04]
Lauren Sherman
Okay, back to. Back to Coach. That's interesting. I'm also interested in real clothes right now. What do you think is happening on the Runway? I mean, we saw more broadly, Coach wasn't about this really, but Coach is always, I feel like, about the kids. But more broadly, there was this sort of corporate cosplay that was happening, whether or not the clothes. A lot of clothes look like sort of working girl stuff you'd wear to the office. But also, there were also just, like, a lot of shows that took place in offices. What do you think was up with that?
- [07:38]
Dario Vitale
Well, people really are, like myself included, are obsessed with severance right now. It's just the look of the moment. I am. Are you watching Severance?
- [07:47]
Lauren Sherman
Yes. I am a. I am a severance person. I. I dropped off during fashion month, but I am engaged.
- [07:54]
Dario Vitale
Okay. Have you watched the latest episode?
- [07:56]
Lauren Sherman
No, I got to the episode where they left the severed building.
- [08:01]
Dario Vitale
Oh, wow, wow, wow. Okay. There's a lot going on. The newest episode is insane. I actually watched it twice, and I'm really, really into it. But I think that the. I think that that does have something to do with it, because I'm also in calls for ad jobs, and they're talking about, you know, it just being. It's just, like, a thing right now, and I think it works, and it certainly works in New York. Oh, yeah, that worked in. That was very Calvin Klein. Wait, Calvin Klein? Sorry, sorry, sorry. Calvin Klein was.
- [08:29]
Lauren Sherman
Talk about it.
- [08:30]
Dario Vitale
Calvin Klein was the hottest room. Marc Jacobs is always forever the hottest room. I love you, Marc Jacobs, but Calvin Klein this time had Calvin Klein. So if you've got Calvin Klein in a fashion show, this guy here is going to be really excited. Like, that's exciting. Kate. Kate Christie. Calvin. That is like the best thing you're gonna see in America. And people were really there. And people were also very dressed to be at a Calvin Klein show.
- [09:01]
Lauren Sherman
Yes. Yeah. And also I thought the treatments of the carpet and the branding, it all felt like a real. And also the interesting thing about that room that Calvin shows in, it's very bright. The lights are extremely bright. I guess you could do them lower. But I think even for the raft shows, I didn't go to all of them, but I went to the one with all the popcorn.
- [09:29]
Dario Vitale
I did too.
- [09:29]
Lauren Sherman
And that like. But the, the lighting in the room at the Calvin show was like, it felt like an old school fashioned show in the best way possible.
- [09:39]
Dario Vitale
You know what? I like it. I like being intimidated. I like being in heavy rooms that are like, intimidating and scary these days in fashion. I think that's. I think we don't get enough of that because it's gotten so big. You know what I mean? So big and, and massive and. And in some ways maybe feels like it's for the masses. This was an intense. This is. I don't know, it's just like an intense vibe. But I like it. I like it and I like that everyone was dressed up for it. And I went to look at the clothes and I think there's some really beautiful stuff, and I'm looking forward to wearing the jeans and like these like hooded T shirts that I thought were interesting. And I don't know, it's. I'm. I'm interested to see where, where it's going. You know, I'm always gonna have a lot of opinions about Calvin Klein because I'm, I'm a child of the night. I'm an American fashion loving kid from the 90s. Like the, the, the, like band, the band 1993 shit is literally what formed my aesthetic. That is. Yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's the end all, be all thing. So I'm always looking out and I'm always interested in where it's going. And I saw some really beautiful things in the showroom in Paris.
- [10:59]
Lauren Sherman
I think there's also something to say about this, this corporate fetish that's happening, that a lot of companies are forcing people to go back to the office. Finally, five years out, and I still haven't read the New York magazine cover story because I'm still in Europe. And also New York magazine comes about a month late to my house. Yes, I am openly complaining about that, but I haven't read the thing about, like, five years after Covid, like, what did we learn? Or whatever. But I think one thing that I'm seeing, I reported on this Conde Nasty is forcing everyone to come back to the office four days a week. But a lot of companies are like, finally, like, no, you gotta come to the office. We gotta make it. You gotta be there. And I think that's part of it. And then there's also this thing of, like, in the real world, everybody dresses like a bum and they wear, like, jeans are dressed up now. So there's also this thing that I noticed this time, wherever, like, a lot of designers are making, like, you said, real clothes, but real clothes of, like, what we thought real clothes were 20 years ago or whatever.
- [12:12]
Dario Vitale
Yes. Okay. I. When you think about those pens, those, like, work, Let the River Run, working girl Melanie Griffith suits in the Calvin Klein show, I am like, I like them. I hate them. I hate them. But then someone was talking to me about why they wanted to work with them, and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's such a good idea. Like, they're just that. But that's good. I love to, like, hate something one day and like it the next day. I. I'm definitely. It's really interesting that you said that because some stuff right now feels too retro to me, and some stuff it really is working. Like, have you flash. Flash forward to. To Mew Mew. It's like. I guess it's all retro, but it's so now. And it's not lost in all these retro references at all. Not one tiny bit of it, but totally.
- [13:08]
Lauren Sherman
It's interesting because there were so much of what she showed was, like, pencil skirts and little fur stoles and lots and cloche. Is that how you say those hats? Like, those little hats from the 30s? Like, it was very. All these. It was like all her little. The way I described it is I felt like Prada was their conversation where he was like, no, you can't do that. No, you can't do that. No, you can't do that. And then Mew Mew was like, well, I'm doing all those things you said I can't do, which was an interesting. Like, they. Those two con. Those two collections, I think, were really in conversation, whereas some seasons it feels like they're totally different track. But whatever she was thinking about at Prada and going back and forth with Rafaan, she extended it there. But the thing about that Miu Miu show was, like, the boots that she showed were these scrunchy high boots. Those were really modern. So even though it was with these little suits and stuff, there was something super to make you remember that we're in 2025 in every single look.
- [14:25]
Dario Vitale
I mean, they did that. What you said, Lauren.
- [14:30]
Lauren Sherman
What I said, what you said. So I went to London for the first time since 2011, and I only went to a few shows. I went to Simone Rochel, which I thought was really fabulous. Amelia Wickstead. And then I also went to Burberry, which was great.
- [14:50]
Dario Vitale
It really was.
- [14:51]
Lauren Sherman
As a stylist, like, how do you shoot something like that Burberry collection?
- [14:57]
Dario Vitale
This show really interests me, and I feel like this is what, in my mind, Burberry should look like all the time.
- [15:06]
Lauren Sherman
I agree.
- [15:07]
Dario Vitale
I really like it. And I was like, yeah, I think he nailed it.
- [15:13]
Lauren Sherman
It was.
- [15:14]
Dario Vitale
I think he nailed it, too. I'm looking at it again right now. I think it's. I think it's easy to style people in this stuff. It's like, it's versatile. It's giving what. It kind of really sets the tone well for the season. It's, like, really about autumn. It's really about, like, shopping and putting a look together and, like, really getting into the autumn of everything. Remember when it was like, back to school autumn? I feel like everyone is doing that again.
- [15:42]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [15:43]
Dario Vitale
Like, look, it's time to shop. It's September. We gotta shop right now. Or, like, July or whenever you're shopping. But, like, it's all giving autumn. It's all giving everything. That was, like, a thing. This season was really going hard on that idea.
- [15:58]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. It did feel like brands or designers were trying to, like, give an argument for why to buy something, which I.
- [16:07]
Dario Vitale
Think is really important. Lauren. Because I feel like that's been lacking. Reese, by the way, it's not that I want everything to be normal. I love crazy. I really love showing. Being like, damn, that was crazy. I really dig it. And I was so amused by this crazy show. I love it. I love it. Yeah, I love that, too. But sometimes you're at the show being like, this is too disconnected from reality and I'm not feeling it. And I like this show because this feels like it's connected to reality and that they're really trying to do something desirable, just like you said. And I feel like, you saw that a lot.
- [16:41]
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- [17:56]
Lauren Sherman
Speaking of disconnected from reality, what did you think of Duran Lantic?
- [18:02]
Dario Vitale
I love Duran Lantic. I like. I love Duran Lantic. It's fun, it's interesting. And I really think that he was really saying something about prints and silhouettes, like the bell bottom pants and really bold prints and bold colors and sweaters and stuff. And I, and I, and I'm. And. And he was also really saying something about Joy because everyone was having the best time. Like, that was the funnest place to be. It really turned my vibe around because I had. I was just not in the best mood that day. Let's say maybe Fashion month had been getting me down. And then that just really uplifted me. But I also was like, wait, bell bottoms are cool now. I love that we're gonna see bell bottoms because Durham Lantic said it. So it's not. And it's also, it's like a joke, but I also take it seriously.
- [18:55]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I loved it. I thought that. So for the, for the listeners who haven't looked, you should A, look up the show. But B, the opening look was a woman, a model who is a woman wearing essentially a dickey, that is Latex rubber of a man's chest. So it looked like she had a man's chest. It's like if. If someone was wearing, like, a Donald Trump face, but instead, the. She was wearing a man's chest over her chest. And then the end look was a dude wearing, like, giant breasts, which. It was funny. Like, people were like. Like, they just laughed. I thought that it. It. I asked him backstage why he did it, and he's like, well, I think it speaks for itself. And I was like, sure. I should have pushed because I wanted. I should have asked, like, why did you put the man first, the woman wearing the man's chest first, and the man wearing the woman's chest last? Because that's, like, a choice. But regardless, it was funny, and it, like, sort of threw people off. But the clothes themselves, like, even though they were conceptual and, like, the skirts were sort of wired to sit off the body, and then the jeans were bareback or whatever, there was no. There was no butt on the jeans. The ideas. I could see all that stuff being commercialized and made into stuff that people would want to wear. Like, I. I loved the mix of the snakeskin camo and leopard print. Like, it looked really good. And that's. I was like, this guy's gonna. This guy's going places, because if he can, like, make these things that are technically unwearable look desirable, then he has something big.
- [20:44]
Dario Vitale
I am so into him, and I love. Yes. I see it, and I laugh, and I believe in it, and I feel that way every season at his show. I've been sold on it since the beginning as something that I'm really entertained by. But this season, I was. I was seeing beyond that. I'm literally already excited for. To see this guy's next show. I'm just a fan.
- [21:12]
Lauren Sherman
Can't wait. So you. You were not.
- [21:16]
Dario Vitale
I wore. I wore a. Wait. I'm trying to turn this around. I wore, like, a similar latex muscle suit in Interview magazine because I was modeling Rick Owens Montclair clothes, and I was like, my body's not there for a Rick Owens shoot, so I need the muscles.
- [21:38]
Lauren Sherman
Maybe he was, like, subconsciously inspired by that shoot.
- [21:42]
Dario Vitale
I. Well, or. Or just that when I saw it, I was like, I love this man that he's thinking the same ridiculous way.
- [21:53]
Lauren Sherman
You're on the. You're on the same wavelength. So you landed. When you got to, like, you landed in Milan. You weren't in London.
- [22:04]
Dario Vitale
I. Yes, I landed late in Milan. So my first show was Fendi. I missed D Squared, unfortunately, which looked so fun.
- [22:13]
Lauren Sherman
It did look really fun.
- [22:15]
Dario Vitale
And I was first at Fendi, Prada, I gotta be honest with you. The. The world and Donald Trump and everything that's been going on was like, really. My mind was swimming with that. It. With such enormity in Milan that. That was like the real story for me. I was. I was having a hard time disengaging from, like, geopolitical stuff and reading the New York Times to be really in it with the shows, which was annoying, but it's just a fact.
- [22:52]
Lauren Sherman
Well, the Zelinsky thing happened on Friday afternoon. Right. Or Friday afternoon or Friday morning in the US And Friday afternoon in Milan.
- [23:02]
Dario Vitale
Right. And I had. So I would have still been in. Yeah. So that's full show zone. It was just a very sad. Just was a very sad moment to be an American, I guess. And it just. That just was the whole thing. When I think back on it, that's all I can really see, you know?
- [23:22]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. And it was also a season. I mean, this is the thing that what happens at the shows is, no matter what's happening, if there's. I mean, there are many wars going on and you can feel all that stuff more closely in Europe, I'd say. I thought what was interesting about the Zelensky thing was I was sort of like, holy shit, I can't believe this happened. And then I went to dinner that night with a couple Americans and a couple Brits, and it felt like the Brits. You know how usually you come to Europe and everybody's like, talking about Ukraine and you're like, oh, this exists. But no one in America talks about this or, like, what's happening in Palestine and Israel. Like, it's so. You can be. Feel so insular in the US and inward. Whereas this time, like, we went to dinner and we were like, how crazy is this? And they kind of were all just like, yeah, I mean, you're president. That's what happens. It was interesting.
- [24:25]
Dario Vitale
Yeah. It was just. It's just really the. It is the. It's the only thing I think of. But we went to the last Donatello Versace show.
- [24:36]
Lauren Sherman
I'm so glad I went. I thought it was fabulous.
- [24:40]
Dario Vitale
I mean, I loved it. There's a. There's so much to enjoy in a gigantic Donatella Versace goodbye show. Apparently the jacket that she was wearing was made by Johnny Versace for her. So maybe there was like. That was a thing.
- [24:57]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, my God. Just landed in my inbox. Please find the attached press release announcing the appointment of Demna as Gucci's new Artistic director starting in early July, 2025.
- [25:13]
Dario Vitale
Oh, shit.
- [25:19]
Lauren Sherman
Demna. He just got a new portrait taken this week.
- [25:22]
Dario Vitale
I was crazy.
- [25:25]
Lauren Sherman
It's crazy. Okay, let's see what the press release says.
- [25:28]
Dario Vitale
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wow.
- [25:33]
Lauren Sherman
What do you think? Are you surprised?
- [25:35]
Dario Vitale
I love Demna. I literally love Demna. I think he's fucking awesome, and I think he's like the real goat, and I think that. I think he can do it. I think it's sick. I really think it's sick. And he's the toy. He's. I really do think he's. Wow. Hold on. That's crazy. Wait, hold on. I have to text somebody. Please hold.
- [26:02]
Lauren Sherman
I. I also have to post this on social media and let everyone know that the line sheet coverage of this will be coming later tonight.
- [26:13]
Dario Vitale
Oh, my God.
- [26:15]
Lauren Sherman
It's crazy.
- [26:16]
Dario Vitale
Wait, it just came out.
- [26:18]
Lauren Sherman
It literally just landed in my inbox. It's completely crazy. I'll do the. I'll do this social media stuff on my phone.
- [26:27]
Dario Vitale
Whoa, Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. That's crazy.
- [26:34]
Lauren Sherman
It's crazy. He's gonna stay at Balenciaga for. Oh, my God. I'm getting. I am shocked. I just got a message.
- [26:42]
Dario Vitale
I bet he's doing couture. Because I.
- [26:44]
Lauren Sherman
He's gonna do couture. Yeah.
- [26:46]
Dario Vitale
Okay. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. Oh, my God.
- [26:51]
Lauren Sherman
He's gonna do couture. He's gonna be a Balenciaga. Until then, from what I know, they are not going to announce the Balenciaga successor for some time. And honestly, I don't know if that person has been. I don't know if that person has been. Has signed the contract yet.
- [27:15]
Dario Vitale
Wow. Also, like, what's it gonna look like?
- [27:19]
Lauren Sherman
What's it gonna look like?
- [27:21]
Dario Vitale
No, but I will say I bought a Balenciaga coat the other day in the showroom. I was like, I'm buying a coat because, like, my coat, okay. I do not wear fashion. I'm just thinking of. I'm just thinking about Demna as a shopper because I don't really shop that much. I buy, like, some Laura Piano stuff or whatever, but. But, like, the most boring Laura Piano stuff. And then I. But I. I got this coat from the Wall street show, and I'm like, this is the best coat ever. And I, like, grew my hair out to, like, look good with the coat. I just love this coat. And then I was like, I'm going to show and I'm gonna like, oh, wait, they've got coats. They've got, like, coats. I really want oh, my God. I really like that coat. And then I went to the showroom and I bought a coat. And I'm just bringing it up because even. Wait, it's so crazy. I don't even know if this story makes any sense, but, like, I was really like, oh, wow. I really desire this thing. I really want it. It's classic, but it's twisted and it's interesting, and I think it's really gonna do me right or maybe even change my life if I buy this thing right. And I feel like that's the power of this guy, and I think it's really interesting. And I also think it's a such a sick time for a refresh.
- [28:38]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. I mean, I think I'm saying right.
- [28:40]
Dario Vitale
Now is deranged because I didn't really expect to be talking about this, but I'm. Wow.
- [28:46]
Lauren Sherman
I, I have. I have been hearing this for the last few days, and I, I literally wrote on Monday that, like, it. I said it sounded silly for this to happen. So apologies to Demna, because I do love him and think he's one of the most brilliant. But I've had some time to process it because as the days went on, the more likely it felt it was gonna be. And so I have thought about it pretty intensely, and everyone read my coverage. I have some details no one else will have, and, like, some thinking and logic behind the appointment in. In Thursday's line sheet that I, at this point, have not written because we're in the future right now, but I'll write it as soon as we're done talking. But I would say, look, this is one of the most brilliant. This person is a genius, a full genius. He likes to do things that people don't think he can do. So my, My assumption was, I got the feeling, the last few Balenciag collections, that he was kind of like, I'm out. Like, I really thought he was gonna. It was. I think he was just like, I've done. Pardon?
- [30:08]
Dario Vitale
Can't see your face.
- [30:09]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, no. Okay, hold on.
- [30:11]
Dario Vitale
Like, that stage or from the collection?
- [30:17]
Lauren Sherman
From the collections. From the collection. It wasn't like, when Alessandro. His last collection, when he did the interview, I, I, I turned to Tim Blanks after we did the press conference. I was like, there's no way that guy's doing another collection at this company. Like, it was really obvious. Wait, what was last?
- [30:34]
Dario Vitale
Wait, wait, hold on. What was the last Alessandra Gucci collection?
- [30:37]
Lauren Sherman
Again, it was the twins. But, like, backstage, he was like, I cannot go on. I hate this I wrote it all down because I, like, typed it all out because I was like, this, man. There is no way this guy can do this anymore. He was like, I am so done. He essentially said, that was very interesting. Oh, my God. I'm getting. There's just so many things right now. It's so, so funny. But. Yes, but so the Demna thing.
- [31:04]
Dario Vitale
So my feeling is like, demna, I'm sorry. I'm just looking at myself.
- [31:09]
Lauren Sherman
It's just so crazy. This is really fun to have happen while we're talking.
- [31:14]
Dario Vitale
The most ADD podcast ever.
- [31:20]
Lauren Sherman
It's going to be crazy. Sorry.
- [31:22]
Dario Vitale
Mad. I am not mad. I'm a F down.
- [31:24]
Lauren Sherman
But, like, I'm getting a lot of. I am shocked. I'm getting a lot of. I am shocked. Let's. Let's talk. That is shocking. Rolling over the floor, laughing. Damn. Nah, it's. Yeah, I'm getting a lot of, like, I am shocked. I am shocked. I am shocked. I am shocked.
- [31:46]
Dario Vitale
It's literally shocking. I think it's cool. I think I just got it.
- [31:55]
Lauren Sherman
Someone screenshot it in French. One of the articles, Karen choose le creator Georgian creator Demna for. For relaunch of Gucci. But in. In French.
- [32:10]
Dario Vitale
I think, you know, you gotta put someone in there. Someone really hardcore needed that job. Well, wait, hold on. Just not. No names, but weren't you being told that it was a hundred percent this other person?
- [32:32]
Lauren Sherman
I. No, I got. There were two things that made me think it was the other person. One was that I talked to some former people who. Who were formerly close to the situation, and they insinuated that it was Eddie Slimond and. But, like, didn't say straight out. And then also then during the weekend, there were some reports that said that it was Eddie in legit publications. So I was like, oh, it must be Eddie. But then what happened was, like, the last three days, more and more things came up that it was Demna and he. It became clear that this was actually something that was planned, like, three months ago, and they've all been holding it in this entire time.
- [33:32]
Dario Vitale
Wow.
- [33:33]
Lauren Sherman
It's wild. It's wild that they were able to. I mean, it's probably a very small group of people that knew originally. I think the last two days it got more. Because, like, the person who told me that Demna was getting his portrait taken was not a person who is, like, even in the second ring of the inner circle, you know? So, like, I'd say the last two days, you probably. There was probably more understanding within the larger group at both companies at both Balenciaga and Gucci that this was happening, but they kept it, I think, for a while. It was like, three people who knew. Wow, it's crazy.
- [34:16]
Dario Vitale
Well, I think he can handle, like, he has a merchant's eye, and he is interested in a whole lot of different types of clothes, you know, And I also think it's an interesting time for a brilliant designer such as himself to go from one thing to another. Yeah, I think one major thing to another.
- [34:47]
Lauren Sherman
I think he. Like, I never finished that thought because this is too exciting. I'm getting all these texts, but I think he wanted a new challenge. Think about it this way. You're one of, like, top five designers working today. And I was thinking about this last fall, actually, with Chanel and Dior and all these things. His name is never in the conversation for those kinds of jobs, even though he is, you know, in some ways the num. The most important designer of this generation and. Or arguably the most important. But he. No one was ever like, I wonder if Demna's interviewing for Chanel. Maybe he did. I have no idea. But it never. His name is never in the mix for things like that. And so I wonder, like. And he also seems like a person who wants to prove that he can do something. And this brand, like, the way it works for him, I think, is that he's a really good product designer, and it is all about product, and they need a fashion proposition, and he's a. About fashion. The question is, can he make it enough separate from him and who he is in to, like, appeal to? I guess the thing is, they don't need him to appeal to everyone because they have the Jackie bag to appeal to everyone in the same way Balenciaga has the motorcycle bag to appeal to everybody. But it's interesting, like, could he make a fashion proposition that feels totally different from something he's done in the past? And that will be. That's his challenge.
- [36:33]
Dario Vitale
It'll be really interesting to see.
- [36:34]
Lauren Sherman
Exciting. It's exciting.
- [36:36]
Dario Vitale
Really. I think it's great news. I think it's been, like. It's been a rough season. I mean, oh, my God. Even besides the geopolitical stuff, it's like this. These weird conversations about where everyone's going. I'm like, oh, my God. I just want this to end, and I want people to be decided on. So we could. So people then have this weird transition period, and then we get into something else. You know what I mean? Because, like, what are the 20s giving us? You know what I mean? It's very confusing. It's a land of confusion beyond. But hey, every announcement is going towards, like, fashion in the 2000s really being something. But. But hey, whatever. Whatever fashion is. I've been saying this for a long time because I've been like, y'all are crazy. Like, when people are Talking about the 2000s, who are they going to think about? What designer are they going to be thinking about? All you bitches listening to the Fashion People podcast, you know who it is. I don't even have to tell you people. You know who it is. You know who they're going to be thinking about. You know what they're going to be looking at. You might not like it right now, but it's true. And that's why it's a cool idea and it was a good idea.
- [37:52]
Lauren Sherman
I agree. I agree. I can't wait.
- [37:56]
E
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- [38:57]
Dario Vitale
You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries. You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns. McDonald's breakfast comes first.
- [39:07]
Lauren Sherman
Ba da ba ba ba. What do you think of Dario Vitale at Versace?
- [39:17]
Dario Vitale
I think that he. I don't. I don't know him. Everyone that knows him loves him. He's cool. I'm really glad it's an Italian. Italians are fiery and kind of crazy in a very specific way. And I bet you that he's got love for that brand and he's going to do it. And also, wait, does that mean that all the other rumors about. Yeah, it's all like. This all makes sense, right? This is like we're on to another show. We're on to some succession shit. Big time here.
- [39:47]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, we're on to Some succession shit. And now the question is. So we've got Dario in at Versace, which it makes a lot of sense because he grew up in the south of Italy in the 90s. He's 42 years old, the same age as me, totally obsessed with Versace. Makes a lot of sense, especially if it's bought by the Prada group. But all of my sources on every single side says that he was not planted there by the Prada group. So don't even start thinking that. But he's really interesting. We have Simone going to Bali. We have Demna going to Gucci. We have Jonathan Anderson going to Dior, which Mel, you cannot say, but I can say we have all the Mattieu at Chanel, all these amazing people. Michael Ryder at Celine, Louise Trotter at Bottega.
- [40:44]
Dario Vitale
Yeah, it's all lined up now. Like, it's all lined up is lined up.
- [40:49]
Lauren Sherman
The one. The one that's left is Balenciaga.
- [40:54]
Dario Vitale
Yeah. Yeah. But this is a season. We're in the season finale.
- [40:57]
Lauren Sherman
We're in the season finale, and that's going to be the final thing. And we have to wait. We're going to have to. I bet they won't announce until after couture because he starts at Gucci in July, and I bet that they will not announce until his final couture show for Balenciaga.
- [41:14]
Dario Vitale
Oh, the new.
- [41:15]
Lauren Sherman
Yes.
- [41:15]
Dario Vitale
Got it, got it, got it.
- [41:17]
Lauren Sherman
Well.
- [41:18]
Dario Vitale
Well, what I mean is. Yeah, it's like this is like season finale, Game of Thrones. It's all gonna change now. And I think that that's great. I think. I think it's. I think it's wonderful. It's been. It's been rough. It was rough last year knowing that this season was gonna be this up thing. And then it really was.
- [41:37]
Lauren Sherman
It was really up. Yeah. So Sarah Burton at Givenchy and Heider Ackerman at.
- [41:43]
Dario Vitale
And Heider Ackerman.
- [41:45]
Lauren Sherman
And who was the other debut this time? There were three of them. Right. Wasn't there a debut on Monday or two or Sunday?
- [41:55]
Dario Vitale
Wait, Heider and Sarah Burton, that those.
- [41:58]
Lauren Sherman
Were the only debuts? I guess so. I thought. I thought they both did a really good job.
- [42:04]
Dario Vitale
Yeah, me too. I'm really looking forward to seeing the stuff from both. Like, I really want to get my hands on this stuff.
- [42:15]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. I feel like I. My. My thing now, and I always do. This is like, what will a buyer think and what will a stylist think? Because I am a consumer, so I'm always like, what will the buyer think and what Will the stylist think? Because it's so different from the way I would view things. And it felt like to me that the Sarah Burton stuff there was, like, a lot of fun stuff to shoot, maybe.
- [42:41]
Dario Vitale
Yeah. Like, I really want to shoot the. I didn't know that I wanted to shoot a black fishnet, you know, justify my love catsuit, but I do, and there's a lot of fun stuff in there. And the vibe at that show was great. Yeah, I loved the vibe, and it felt different and it felt new and also similar to Calvin Klein. It's shown in the Maison in, which is a great. I. I've been to shows there before. It's a great place for a very small, intimate show where there's people sort of hanging everywhere. I love shows like that. I really love being at a show like that. But this one's really interesting because it was new, you know, and.
- [43:20]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [43:21]
Dario Vitale
And it's something to either really like, which I know a lot of people loved it, and I also saw a lot of hate for it. I think that's healthy. It's, like, good to be polarizing.
- [43:30]
Lauren Sherman
Agreed. I'm so sick of. We just went through this phase of really bland stuff, and I'd rather it be annoying or. Or like you said, like, unsettling than it be bland. It's just no more of these shows where it's just a bunch of clothes that don't have an opinion because no one wants to look at that. And it's not good. If you're using a Runway show mostly as marketing, which most of these companies are, you got to make it interesting because then people will share it and at least they'll talk about it and interrogate it on X or whatever it's called now. Like. But you have to make it interesting. You cannot just be like, look at my, you know, monochromatic bullshit that looks like a trend that was produced or. Or came on the street seven months ago or whatever.
- [44:26]
Dario Vitale
Yes, 100%. Wait, where. Wait, shit, wait. I was about to say something to you. Oh, I really want to try on the Tom Ford suits. For me, as a. Not as a stylist, I'm looking forward to playing around with this stuff and. And for sure. But also, of course, I'm interested in the idea of, like, a Tom Ford suit. Like, a dark gray Tom Ford suit. I. I don't know. Like, that seems cool.
- [44:55]
Lauren Sherman
You know, I love that you have become a suit man.
- [44:59]
Dario Vitale
Well, I'm trying to be a suit man. I don't have an actual suit. I'm wearing, I've been wearing a Balenciaga blazer and I also. Yeah, but I don't have a suit. I don't know. I like.
- [45:14]
Lauren Sherman
Have you thought of getting one made at Husbands?
- [45:17]
Dario Vitale
I, I made. Yes. Well, I have multiple ones made at husbands and for me personally, I prefer my shirts like.
- [45:25]
Lauren Sherman
Got it.
- [45:27]
Dario Vitale
Like I feel like I want a suit that's a little more relaxed. Oh wait, wait, wait. Excuse me. Lies. I do have a suit and it is by Canali and they made it just for me and it's so hot and I don't know why I didn't wear it this.
- [45:44]
Lauren Sherman
I feel like I've seen you in this suit and you look great.
- [45:49]
Dario Vitale
Now I'm going to be stressed out, I guess. I know I must not have brought it to Paris. I don't know why I didn't bring to Paris because sometimes I like bringing. So I bring two suitcases because I never know if I'm going to be like feeling crazy I need to wear a suit or like I'm just feeling like wearing sneakers. I don't know. But anyway, I'm really into. I got, I got my husband's shirts. I'm going to get a suit. I've got my Balenciaga jacket and I've got a bunch of new ties from Charvet and husband.
- [46:15]
Lauren Sherman
Perfect.
- [46:16]
Dario Vitale
Yeah.
- [46:17]
Lauren Sherman
I, I bought a Phoebe Philo suit on this trip.
- [46:20]
Dario Vitale
That is hot.
- [46:21]
Lauren Sherman
It's so good. I've been wearing it. I'm. I've done a couple filmed. Been a talking head for a few documentaries here.
- [46:30]
Dario Vitale
Okay.
- [46:31]
Lauren Sherman
About the luxury industry. And I wore a Phoebe Filo suit for it and also bought the shirt at Charvet and a beautiful scarf at Charvet. Every time I leave Charvet I say to them, don't sell.
- [46:45]
Dario Vitale
Yeah. They're so amazing.
- [46:48]
Lauren Sherman
They're amazing eyes.
- [46:49]
Dario Vitale
I bought. I can't get over how much I like them. I'm really into the ties. There's one tie that I got that is. Oh wait, where is it? I don't know where it is but it's my, my vision was Jerry Seinfeld but. And Dara helped me pick the one that's like a joke but you're not gonna laugh at me. Like you're not gonna like fall. Some of the ties when I held them up, I'm like people will laugh on the street if they see me in this one. It's a, it's a delicate dance when you're a Jewish middle aged man that is looking at Jerry Seinfeld. For fashion from 1993. For fashion inspiration. But it's possible at Charvet.
- [47:26]
Lauren Sherman
I agree. I think that even though this was a totally chaotic episode, we completely sun summed up the state of the industry, which is that everyone is sort of trying to think back to when fashion meant something, and that's why everyone wants to wear a suit. And everybody's thinking about corporate culture and everybody. And we're in this, like, weird political time. And also Demna is at Gucci or is going to Gucci. And it's still fun to be in fashion.
- [47:59]
Dario Vitale
It is fun to be in fashion. Wait, Lauren. Lauren, if we have two more minutes, what do we forget to talk about? Because I can't get over this Demna thing.
- [48:07]
Lauren Sherman
What were your favorite shows of the season? I think that someone was asking me, and I was like, Prada. I couldn't think of anything.
- [48:14]
Dario Vitale
Okay. I really love. I really like the Mew Mew show a lot. I love Duran Land Tank. I was very into Balenciaga so much that I bought. I bought a coat.
- [48:24]
Lauren Sherman
Yes.
- [48:26]
Dario Vitale
But I mean, I. I really like it.
- [48:28]
E
I like.
- [48:29]
Dario Vitale
But I just thought Balenciaga was so funny. Like, all this.
- [48:32]
Lauren Sherman
I thought it was fab.
- [48:33]
Dario Vitale
I thought there was a lot of cool. I liked his. I liked the streetwear. I liked the puma stuff. For real.
- [48:39]
Lauren Sherman
It was really.
- [48:40]
Dario Vitale
And I liked the ridiculous gowns, like, swimsuit gowns.
- [48:46]
Lauren Sherman
I love when he goes hoey. It's so good.
- [48:49]
Dario Vitale
Yeah.
- [48:50]
Lauren Sherman
Like, I loved all his bras and. And, like, lingerie last season. I think it's great.
- [48:55]
Dario Vitale
I did, too. I'm really into Chloe.
- [48:58]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, yeah. It's beautiful.
- [48:59]
Dario Vitale
Yeah. Chloe looks great. And also Chloe, they, like, really know what they're doing with the room. You know what I mean? They've got. They got Chemina's. Understand, like, they understand the room and, like, the girl and their new girl. And I think it's really fun to see. And it also. I don't know, it's like a new blueprint for, like, redoing a house that just builds. Like, it's really easy for her, and I'm sure it's not easy at all. But, like, it really. Because it's also so big. It's such a big collection, but it's just. It's so convincing to me.
- [49:35]
Lauren Sherman
On that note, I loved Alaia and thought similarly. It felt like a real fashion show. Like, he is so good at. He's such a good commercial designer. I. I've bought a lot of stuff. I know so many women who are buying a Ton of it. It just really works commercially. Al, my friend Allie Pugh, who's a stylist, bought this gorgeous coat and she was like, should I buy a techle bag? And I was like, no, you shouldn't buy a techle bag. It's not for you anymore. But yes, you should buy this coat that I'm sure cost a gazillion dollars. It was so gorgeous. He really nails it commercially. But I also think the fashion show feels like fashion. It doesn't feel like necessarily, oh, I see how he's gonna commercialize this stuff. It just feels like, oh, here are a bunch of ideas on a Runway and do with them what you wanna do, but leave here thinking about something and that technique or whatever. And that was really, really nice. That was a special show too. I mean, I still keep going back to Prada, even though when I, when it first came out, I was like, what the fuck?
- [50:46]
Dario Vitale
I. I actually haven't mentioned my, my interest in Prada in this podcast today. I really liked how Prada, to me, was really grounded and it was really weird. But I still could believe all these things. Being totally being commercialized, being cool ideas for a cool woman to wear as is. And I really like that. And it suddenly made the last couple years of Prada, the looks, look overdone and over styled and a little fussy. But I was, by the way, that's. That's the power of fashion and Prada. Because I was like, I dug it then. But then this show made all that look old, and then this was like a new direction. And I'm like, yes, that's, that's, that's right. I love change.
- [51:33]
Lauren Sherman
Totally. The thing about Prada and Miu Miu and Muprada generally, but also Raphael, who I am equally fangirl of, is that it makes you think. Like, I was looking at old Jill Sander Raff collections because they were getting fed to me on Instagram. I think because I was writing a lot about the changes. It's Jill Sander and Simone Bellotti going there. But those Jill Sander collections he did, I ended up buying a jacket on the Real Real. They were insane. Like, they were so amazing. And I think what they've done at Prada is every Prada collection I've ever seen. While I'm watching it, I'm like, what is going on? And then an hour later, I'm like, that was the best thing I saw all week. And it will be. I mean, there's just no one like her. She is in the same way. There's no one like Demna in his generation. There's no one like her. She's just in a class of her own. Her Phoebe, Filo, Ray Kawakubo. Like, there. There are only a few of them who have that, and she is just. She's amazing. It's. It really. It always kind of comes back to her in some ways.
- [52:48]
Dario Vitale
The way the whole room screamed for her and cheered for her when she came out of Mew Mew. I mean, people think of her as a rock star, and it's so cool.
- [52:56]
Lauren Sherman
Totally.
- [52:56]
Dario Vitale
And obviously it's deserve, but it's just, like, it's so fun to see.
- [53:01]
Lauren Sherman
I don't do a ton of backstage interviews because I find it really stressful. And I'm always like, not all the designers are good at them, so I'm always like, why am I doing this? But I go for her every time. She always has something interesting to say, and it's like, particularly. It's a lot at those shows because everybody wants a piece of her, but she's worth it. She's just like. I also liked speaking of end of Tuesday, and then we should go, because I really do need to write about Demna and process this. But I really liked Saint Laurent, and I thought that was like, a real fashion show. And talking about real clothes, a lot of times when I see that collection, I haven't been to many of his shows in person and on, I'd say on the Internet, I often am like, I think this looks cool, but, like, it doesn't relate to real life. And this collection, I thought a. It was, like, majestic to watch all the color. And I was so. There wasn't a lot of color this season, except at Prada, Miu Miu. And I loved the way he used color, and it was like a cornucopia, essentially. But then also, it did feel more real. And maybe it's because people are dressing up more, but, like, the bomber with the ball gown skirt was like, oh, I know young girls who would. Who would copy that look. And it felt like. I don't know. I really enjoyed that show. It was like, a really nice way to end fashion week, even though a day later, we're dealing with a. I love.
- [54:41]
Dario Vitale
I love a heavy scene like that. I mean, it's just so fun to go to a show like that. It's so. And it adds to. By the way, that adds to me being into the whole thing. Like, yes, I'm always into the thing of Saint Laurent, but, man, they really do. They also really know how to work a room. I would say, like, wait, Chloe, Alaia, Saint Laurent. Just thinking about it, those guys all, they work a room in a really different way. Like, like, the. And it all. They're just like, it's creating this whole ambiance. Everyone's doing it. Don't get me wrong. Every. Oh, mew mew beyond also. And this time, it was so funny with all these influencers that were just, like, there. I stayed for like, an hour after the show just taking videos of all these influencer kids that were just, like, posing everywhere. And it's just everything. I don't know. Maybe this is sort of an interesting season. I'm glad we were there, Lauren.
- [55:42]
Lauren Sherman
I'm glad we were there. To Mel, and I'm glad we got to do this together. I hope you have an amazing vacation.
- [55:48]
Dario Vitale
Thank you. I'm blocking. I'm logging out on life now. When I don't.
- [55:53]
Lauren Sherman
Guys, don't text Mel.
- [55:54]
Dario Vitale
Don't text me. Guys. Bye, Lauren. Have fun writing about this. Wow. Damn. Congrats.
- [56:01]
Lauren Sherman
Congrats. Damian. Congrats, Demna. Much love, Mel. Thank you for doing this.
- [56:08]
Dario Vitale
Of course. It's my pleasure. Bye.
- [56:10]
Lauren Sherman
Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman, and Bob Tabador.