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This September at Hauser and Worth in New York, Ambera Wellman will present Darkling, a suite of absorbing, otherworldly oil paintings. Motivated in part by her upbringing in rural Nova Scotia, her compositions offer complex entanglements between animals and humans, the organic and the man made, exploring paintings role in the midst of the climate crisis. In this new body of work, Wellman engages subjects ranging from funerary rituals and strip clubs to compositions that defy genre even as they draw upon celebrate the painterly innovations of such historical masters as Goya and Courbet. And Beryl Wellman's inaugural exhibition at Hauser and Wirth, Worcester street will coincide with the presentation of new works by the artist entitled 1000 Emotions at Company Gallery at 145 Elizabeth street in New York. Visit houserworth.com for more information and visit Darkling at 134 Worcester street and 1000 Emotions at 145 Elizabeth street in New York. Now through October 25th. Fall is here and it's the perfect excuse to refresh your wardrobe. And Macy's VIP Fall Fashion Preview Sale makes it easy. Right now you can take an extra 30% off top brands plus 15% off beauty. I am going to raid the Macy's beauty closet. You never see sales like this in Beauty. The sale has something for everyone, though. Women can shop Karl Lagerfeld, Paris, bcbg, French Connection, Calvin Klein and Avec Le Fille, plus shoes from Steve Madden, Franco Sarto and Arezzo and handbags from dkny, Karl Lagerfeld, Paris and Calvin Klein. Men can grab Hugo Boss, Lacoste and Scotch and Soda, while kids favorites include Abercrombie Kids, Carter's and First Impressions. Beauty lovers. You'll get 15% off brands like Lancome, Clinique, Estee Lauder, YSL, Valentino, Armani and Dolce and Gabbana. Macy's Fall VIP Fashion Preview runs September 25 through October 5. Shop in store or online at Macy's.com and get your wardrobe ready for the season. Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo line sheet, and today with me on the show is the New York Times reporter Jacob Gallagher. We're reviewing Milan Fashion Week, previewing Paris and chatting about the death of the sneaker. Happy Tuesday everyone. I'm in Paris. Woohoo. Maybe that is the response. I don't know. I I went to the dermatologist yesterday. Unfortunately she's retiring so no, I cannot send you your her info. I'm sorry. No more. This poor Woman just like inundated with American women asking for her info. Anyway, she's great. I really like her. I'm sad she's retiring. I also saw the new St. Laurent show. I went to the Virgil Abloh exhibit. We're going to talk about that a little bit more later. Be sure to check it out in line sheet on Monday. You'll find my big Milan report, a scoop about Fendi and some shopping intel too. And on Tuesday, kind of an intro to the shows this week, which are obviously a big deal. More on the Virgil exhibition. And Sarah Shapiro has a mailbag issue as she is on holiday. I hope she is enjoying it and not listening to this. Let's get going with our dear Jacob. Jacob Gallagher. Welcome back to Fashion People.
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B
Hi. It's good to see you, Lauren.
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A
I missed you.
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B
It's been a very long time.
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A
I, you know, we really missed you in Milan.
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B
Yeah, I mean I, I meant it's been a long time since I've, I've been on this podcast but I had a child so I wasn't working for about four and a half months. But I'm back at work.
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A
Congratulations. Thank you. So happy for you guys. And also glad that you took your paternity leave as every man should.
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B
I did. Every man should take it. It was an amazing time. I, you know, cannot recommend more that that time if you can take it.
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A
It's true. He's a cutie. So anyway, understandable that you're not here, but let's just get right into it. You missed a lot in Milan. It was, it was so fun. It was one of the more, you know, Milan is so weird but also so fun.
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B
It's funny because I think on the men's side we get such like a truncated version of Milan Fashion Week often. Yeah. Though maybe that will change now with some of these new designers in Milan. We'll see what kind of where they land on when they show and how they show. But yeah, of all seasons, for me to miss this felt like a real banger of a season and maybe an agenda setting one in Milan, which never seems to be the case recently.
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A
True. So before we get into the shows, there's was just breaking news that Sylvia Venturini Fendi stepped down. Which is interesting because I, we're recording this on Monday afternoon. I've obviously written Tuesday's line or Monday's line sheet already. Monday's line sheet. And I, I knew my, my item was about Maria Grazia Cherry joining Fendi and them announcing it. I heard October 1st I don't know if that's for sure. I know she's joining, and I had heard that she was going to also own Men's, which I wasn't sure about that I knew that the sureness is that she's joining. The other stuff I wasn't positive of, but it's really interesting. What do you think of Ms. Fendi stepping down and what do you think their men should look like?
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B
I'm not the least bit surprised that this news is coming. I think the rumors have swirled for so long now. And also I think lately the past couple Fendi shows have felt really bad, big and felt really like kind of statement making, you know, post kind of Kim Jones. I think there's. There's been a feeling of, you know, every show kind of. I was at the show, the. I guess now, whatever, six months ago, and I remember even then kind of thinking like, okay, this feels like they're really blowing this out. And like, what is kind of what are they trying to say with that? And, you know, she. She's the. We don't have many people like that anymore that are part of the family that still, you know, I'm into her. That still work at the brand that has their name on it. I think with men's, it's. It's going to be a challenge, I think, with where that brand tends to sit historically and what it kind of offers. You know, I'd be curious who comes in and kind of tries to blow up that archive a little bit because it's not like a brand that I think a lot of men look to. Of being like, this is great. And I need to look at Fendi. And, you know, it certainly has a consumer. You could definitely see that at the shows, but we'll see if it is Maria Grazia. I'd be very, very, very curious of what she does because she's, you know, obviously at. At Dior, there. There. There was no men's. And, you know, I think it's interesting to me that, that if that is the case, like you said, if she does take over Men's, that that would be the second big hire in Milan in particular that handles both jobs. You know, obviously at Gucci, it's been that way. But, you know, it's interesting that, like, you know, compared to kind of the LVMH brands in Paris in particular, where they have the kind of two designer role, like at Vuitton, for example, but, you know, now maybe are we seeing the consolidation again with, you know, Jonathan at Dior? Demna, Gucci. Like, you know, it's, it's an interesting thing because Fendi was always one of those brands until very, very recently that had the split between men's, women's, totally.
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A
I think what I know from people very senior at LVMH is that they really wanted her to do this job very badly. Maria Grazia. And there were challenges with it look like whatever happened behind the scenes at Dior, it was not a smooth transition. And I think she has, she doesn't need a job. She has this Teatro in Rome that she's restoring. Like she has a lot of stuff to do. And also other houses would happily pay her. She's a great commercial designer. A lot of these. What I think is interesting about this is a lot of her clients are going to move to Fendi now. It'll be the same woman that Dior might lose, but Dior is about to gain a lot. And we'll talk about that a little bit later. But I, I also think, I think giving her both was probably a. It was, it probably sweetened the deal a bit. So, yeah, I guess, yeah, I should.
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B
Reassess what I said because now that I'm thinking I'm like this now, I actually would put like LV as really being the outlier, you know, because, yeah, Dior, Givenchy, you know, Gucci, again, like these, these big labels, they are all under the kind of one creative direction. And I guess, you know, I guess we'll see what comes with Fendi if that is the case.
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A
Yeah. And I think, look like Nicola, I think has. Did he sign a 10 year or 5 year when he resigned? He has 10 or he, he has a few more years. Pharrell is probably doing three year deals. There's a chance that LV could end up under that configuration too. It's interesting because these are such big companies that you think to one person can't handle it. But let's see. I think if it works with Dior and, and if Maria Grazia is doing both for real, maybe they'll surprise us tomorrow with a different name or Monday or October 1st with a different name for the men's. But if she's doing both and both of those things work, then maybe they will move towards that. It's fascinating. Okay, let's talk. Milan. What did you love? What did you hate? What were you jealous to have missed?
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B
I mean, I feel like for longtime listeners of your podcast, we shouldn't even talk about Jill because everyone knows that.
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A
I think we have to talk about Jill. I feel like we are like partially personally responsible. I would.
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B
Simone Belante's appointment at Jill Never, ever, ever say that. I listen, that show was, was great to me. I think the, the question that I have now is, is, is where OTB will position that brand in terms of. I think price will matter a lot. I think, you know, I was talking about it with a friend of mine who's a buyer this weekend and we were kind of discussing like that look is very compelling for a consumer that's kind of a guy frankly similar to me. I think like kind of in their 30s, in their 40s, you know, in a big city. But you know, how does the price, how. Where do the price is going to be a big, be a big factor there? Because to buy into that look, you know, if those suits come in and they're $10,000, it's, it's going to be really, I think it's going to be difficult. It's going to be really hard for them. And it's also like what are they going to do marketing wise, you know, how are they going to package it celebrity wise? There's a lot of questions now. The statement was made, I thought it was a very clear collection. I thought it was very compelling. It was a, a very smart way to dress. And there was a lot of I think surrealist aspects in it. He tempered it a little bit from the last Ballet collection. I think smartly it worked and, and there was a shoe that's going to work commercially I think. But the rest of the stuff the ready to wear. I'm really curious what it will look like in store and how consumers will receive it. I've not known what a Jill consumer is now for many, many, many years now I'm curious what that consumer will be.
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A
Okay, couple of things. I talked to a retailer as well the night of the show and this person said to me, or was it. Yeah, it was the night of the show. And that first of all, for anyone listening, the images that they've sent out now are better. But like the Runway looks flattened. It was much. The material looked really good in person. So it looked better in person. If I had seen it, I would have been like it looks fine. But. And you're right, the shoes, I thought the sort of chukka, but then also that little lace up shoe was that that's going to go. So this person said, you know what, like Jill Sander should, is not an expensive brand. It should be like Dries prices. And Dries is extremely well priced. It's Just so there's so much value there. And that's what it always was. And the interesting thing is like I with Luke and Lucy, who I think are really cool. And I love their first few. I didn't love, but I liked their first few collections. Very heavy, always too heavy. But, but I bought a bunch of stuff the first season because they used to have a store on the Upper east side. And I got like a very cool coat on sale and I got some like classic Jill blazer, that type of thing. And then they kept taking the prices up. And so I think, yeah, I think it's a, that is going to be a big factor and to see if they can produce at the level they need to produce at, at the pricing. And there are very few brands at this point that are able to kind of do that. Like we talk about orally, but that's like a very particular supply chain. Dries just has their supply chain down pat. OTB has a great supply chain. And I went to MM6 and I have to say like, that collection's a great. It's so well done. You're like, do you disagree? It's, it's fine. It's like you put it at Mohawk General, everybody buys it. Like it's like the perfect filler in for stuff. It looks nice. It's not like I was like screaming for like, I definitely want the skirt suit from the Jill show, but not that I have anywhere to wear it but. But I think you're totally right. It's gonna be. And we'll see. And I, and I thought the first campaign they did was really good, so. But it's tricky. It's a tricky market right now. And that's what everything that comes out, I'm like, but what is the price gonna be? Because if you're at Drees prices, you have a chance. If you're at like normal prices, is anyone gonna bother.
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B
Normal prices, which are like so eye wateringly high that it kind of, I think makes fashion in a lot of ways a spectator sport. And I think I'm waiting for it again to see if someone will figure it out and kind of. I shouldn't say figure it out. Listen, if this is where these companies want to take these brands and they look around at their competitors and they say to feel luxury, quote, unquote, we need to be coming in at $7,000 for a sweater and five figures for a coat. That's their prerogative. And that's where they're seeing the money. I just think it's very interesting that there, as we've talked, what we're kind of talking around is I'm awaiting the brand that's going to say, okay, this is a gap in the market and maybe we live here and this is where our business can thrive. I'm not seeing brands try that right now and we'll see. But that show, I thought that was a really great statement and a really crisp reminder of why minimalism, I think, does have to some people, is still so compelling. I, I wouldn't call what he did entirely minimalistic, but there were so many traces of, you know, Jill's work in there. And I, I really did like that show on, on the other. Other end of the spectrum. Versace was the other show that I, I was kind of very sad to. To miss. And definitely a show that I think.
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A
Did you love it or hate it?
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B
I. I really did like it. I looked at it several times. I think my initial reaction, I should say, and this is a larger meta conversation about Versace and what is going on behind the scenes there and their confidence or perhaps seeming lack of confidence in him. That show wasn't streamed and I did find that very interesting.
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A
Interesting. I didn't know that that's a good little nugget.
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B
Cause someone was actively texting me, a friend was actively texting me who was at the show. And I was like, trying to find it. I was trying to catch up and started streaming it halfway through, couldn't find it. Maybe it was on some site I wasn't looking at, but I checked the versace website and YouTube and the whole thing, and I didn't find it. So I felt like I was playing catch up after seeing videos on Instagram. And then I looked at the collection and, man, it is amazing that if you just put a lot of color in your collection right now, it feels so different of what everything else that's going on is. New York Fashion Week was so black and beige and sad.
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A
Except for Tory.
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B
Except for Tory, I guess. True, good point. And then, you know, even those early shows that we've seen in Milan so far, you know, you know, color is just not a priority for these companies right now. Versace was just doing something completely different. And I really, I liked it. There were some really, really wackadoo proportional ideas in there.
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A
You know, the crop waistcoat, messed up crotches. Messed up crotches.
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B
The crotches are where I would draw the line.
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A
I think they were funny. I kind of liked it. I obviously would. No one's gonna wear it like that. But it was funny the way they were, they were tugged.
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B
But some, you know, it felt true to the brand. It felt very much more, I think, the Gianni era of designing than anything. That would be, you know, the Donatella period, to me at least. But I, I think it's, it's, it's good directionally, I think that there is a consumer that wants that kind of look out there. Again, I'll be serious to see, be curious to see what kind of efforts they put behind it. As a company. We've all heard of the drama and the kind of questions about what's going on behind the scenes there, but I would hope that they give this a go because it was fun. And I think right now there's not a lot of fun on the market. I know it wasn't well received online. I was looking at what people were saying about online. I was like, oh, I guess maybe I'm misreading something here.
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A
But I think people are, people are.
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B
Primed to, I think, want a certain kind of clothes right now and, you know, Versace. That definitely didn't feel of this moment in fashion, which I think is actually a good thing.
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A
This September at Hauser and Worth in New York and Barra Wellman will present Darkling, a suite of absorbing otherworldly oil paintings. But motivated in part by her upbringing in rural Nova Scotia, her compositions offer complex entanglements between animals and humans, the organic and the man made, exploring paintings role in the midst of the climate crisis. In this new body of work, Wellman engages subjects ranging from funerary rituals and strip clubs to compositions that defy genre even as they draw upon and celebrate the painterly innovations of such historical masters as Goya and Courbet and Barrel. Wellman's inaugural exhibition at Hauser and Wirth, Worcester street, will coincide with the presentation of new works by the artist entitled 1000 Emotions at Company Gallery at 145 Elizabeth street in New York. Visit houserworth.com for more information and visit Darkling at 134 Worcester street and 1000 Emotions at 145 Elizabeth street in New York in now through October 25th. Hi, I'm Nancy Cartwright. You may know me better as the voice of Bart Simpson on Simpsons Declassified. We're diving into the mysteries that keep the Simpsons forever young. Have you ever wondered how the Simpsons regularly predicts future events? Who better to ask than the show's creators, performers and writers, the celebrity guests? Be sure to follow and listen to Simpsons Declaration classified wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, a few things One is, obviously, something's going on. Lots of things. We've both heard tons of stuff. The things that we know and we can say publicly is that Donatella Versace did not go to that show, even though she's a global brand ambassador and she didn't post about it. There's a lot of other stuff going on behind the scenes that maybe someday we'll all report on and be able to nail down. But for now, let's just say the other thing is obvious. They said that they were going to do a presentation, which I reported, and broke that news. Thank you, wwd, for not crediting me, as usual, but I'm just kidding. I don't. I don't really care. When they don't credit me, it's fine. But they. I called them, I said, I heard you're not going to have a show. They said, yeah, we're going to do an intimate presentation. This was no intimate presentation. Was a giant in the oldest museum in Milan. Tons of these little rooms, a giant set with, like, vignettes. And, like, there was a bed with his bed sheets, like, his own bed sheets. I was totally startled by it and felt totally engaged. And if they don't keep him, they are nuts. He is so talented, and it was amazing. Like, here's the. Here's who I think I actually, when I was leaving and I wrote this in the piece, hopefully it didn't get cut out. I still haven't read the edit, but I think he's actually in conversation with Michael Ryder because he grew up. They're all the same age as me. You're a little bit younger than us. I will not reveal your age. But we're all 1980 to 1984, essentially. And this felt like I was walking around a movie set in Milan in 1983. And Michael's show was like, Willie Smith, 1980s. And backstage, Dario said he's not nostalgic. Sure, neither am I. But, like, this is what we. This is what we knew growing up. Like, these are the images of things that we saw. Like this. Obviously, Miami Vice was not a reference for him, but, like, you could see it, like, had the trickle down of what Versace did in Miami Vice or whatever. So, like, that part of it got me. It really got me. And I also. It really reminded me of Alessandro Michele's first show at Gucci, because I didn't. I wasn't there. I didn't go to that show. But I remember seeing it online and being extremely upset about it because it looked like Zara Clothes or vintage clothes from a dress up closet, like a dress up box. And I think this felt like very vintage and it made people uncomfortable. And then a season later, everybody was like, this is the best thing that's ever happened. I thought the shoes were incredible. I will definitely buy them. I'm sure. The question for me is sure they're going to alienate a consumer. How many people that is who are like die hard Versace clients at this point. There is a way to still service those clients through merchandising and special atelier products, all of that stuff. But the reality of it is Capri, the owner of Versace, has not been a good manager of that brand. And it's about to go into a machine of a company that can manage it. So here's hoping whoever is fighting behind the scenes can make up, kiss and make up, because this is gonna work and it could be really good for everyone involved. And so I also backstage look like. I don't do a lot of backstages in Milan. I tend to do more. Cause it's a little less crazy here. I get nervous and just don't end up going. But he talked to us for 15 minutes. He answered every question and very with a lot of thought. And I thought some of the communications was a little overwrought around the show. And I was like, ooh, this is. And he was amazing. Like, I. He's a star. And if they. If they can figure out again, pricing like those shoes, if. If those woven shoes are a thousand bucks or even 1300, that you're gonna be able to sell them. If they're 1885, you're not. If they're 675 or 9, 900, then you definitely are. So I hope. But there is something going on. And Demna is part of this crew too, of like these early 80s kids who. They're all. And I went to the Virgil exhibit today at the Grand Palais, but Virgil's same thing. Like, I think Virgil is 80 or 81. And so, like walking through that exhibit, I was like, oh, the last 30 years of my life are here. Not in the same way I experienced it, but in the way someone did. And I think that's what is the sort of through line of all these people that are kind of coming up. And Demna, same thing. He's obviously been around longer and had more experience. And you saw that come out in the. In. In his show. Did you go to the screening in New York? No. I mean, it's super fun and like wacky. I Loved it. It was better than the Gucci movie. Even though I did love House of Gucci. It was really, really something. But, but what did you think of the Gucci collection?
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B
Well, what I will say to Versace and I keep thinking about kind of this, this feeling that I have that we're kind of stuck as, as like a broader, you know, like the fashion world kind of feels stuck in terms of how these where we are, trend wise, where we are, you know, and how people are dressing right now. And I think it's important that like the Versace that he was putting forward, it's like you can kind of find some of those traces in the vintage market now. Like I was texting a friend and I said this looks like the Vers Versace that you find at Laura Kalegi, which is maybe too like insular New York of a reference. But it's like, it's the stuff you'll find at like a good vintage store and like totally. And, and, and you'll kind of, you'll maybe be like, oh, I'm surprised that this was Versace or like it'll defy your expectations. But I think it's, it's important that these designers, you know, whether or not people are buying the clothes directly. Like I think Micheli's Gucci worked in a lot of ways because like he was pulling stuff like the bit loafers that people then could find on the vintage market if they wanted, which only further perpetuated the trend. And then you saw that just helped the brand feel like it was culturally huge. And we'll see if that happens with Versace. But I think that the fact that it feels in conversation with what's out there and the way people are shopping now I think is actually really important.
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A
Yeah. The one thing on it is that the difference between when that happened over 10 years ago and now is that people were not shopping the second hand market like they are now.
- [27:09]
B
Correct.
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A
So I think that's been an issue for Michele at, at Valley.
- [27:13]
B
I think that's right. I think that's absolutely right.
- [27:15]
A
The difference is the Michele proposition is a, I think that's like, has a lot to do with how it's been merchandise and maybe that'll change now that they have new executive leadership. But also it isn't an extension of something we already sell. We haven't seen this in those striped jeans. I'm sure you could find a copy of them. But like I'm too lazy to do that. I'm also not going to wear the striped Jeans. But anyway, your. Your Gucci take, I need to know.
- [27:39]
B
I think it's a very good foundation. I think it was a very smart hire and now looks that way. There's a lot of goodwill around Demna, especially critically. It has seemingly transferred over. People liked this. I thought, I am a little. If I can speak personally and I think actually, no, I'm not even gonna say this personally. I think that this is maybe something that the fashion industry should pay attention to, this celebrity reliance. I wonder. I do. Just. It's an open question to me how much people care in this day and age. Like he. It was very interesting to me that he so closely aligned the brand immediately with celebrity and having it be worn by. By celebrities in this movie, by it being about who directed it, about the actors and showing up at this thing and blah, blah, blah. You know, the power of celebrity in this age, I think is to me fading a little bit. I think people see through the mechanisms. They see through. They know how these brand deals happen. Unless you're like a die hard, Die hard fan, but even in that case, are you really then a consumer? I think it was cool and it was cheeky and I get that. I want to see maybe the step beyond that There was maybe to me placing it on celebrity, doing the movie, having it be like a red carpet thing, which he has done before, it put it a little bit. It made it feel a little inaccessible to me, a little impenetrable. And I'm really curious where he goes from here. I think there is a sense that at Balenciaga it worked because that wasn't as massive a brand. Gucci is more of a mass luxury brand to me. Me especially him, the scale it's at now, him coming in at this scale. And I think I want to kind of see it on people and get a sense of what it's going to look like in its trickle down package. But the clothes themselves, I was into it and it was a very clear. He's a very good designer. He just is.
- [29:51]
A
He's a real professional. Yeah, the clothes looked really professional. And Becky, our friend Becky Malinski went to the re see the next day in New York and she sent me a photo of the Jackie bag that he did. And the. The last version of that bag, which is a great silhouette, very similar to an Hermes trim, if anyone's interested, was done in like a very crackly tacky leather. It looked very cheap. He has done it in like a beat up brown leather. And I was like, shit, that's Gonna sell in a second. I think he's just. The clothes are just impeccable. He's a professional. I was talking to him after the show and he was saying. And he was so open and he was available to all of us. Like, really, he's just like a class act. And he was saying, you know, the archives are just barely touched. Like, there's just so much in there. I think really interesting point about the celebrity look. Like, Gucci is so connected to celebrity and they do this big LACMA gala. This is going to be his first show. And I did like, look like Spike Jonze, baby girl director lady. I'm into that situation. So it. For me, it was great. I like when you just.
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B
You just. You're like, I know I can't pronounce it.
- [31:04]
A
You're like, oh, I'm not gonna try to pronounce her name right now. I don't. It's like, whatever. But they both look great. Anyway, I enjoyed it. It was. It's. For me, like, this is the thing. Demna again is like 42 or 43 or whatever. But. But I think you're right about this. You have it. You're. You're picking up on something. You should do a piece about this. I think the cut did something about this. But, you know, there's always another angle. There is the prices. I wrote about this this summer. The amount of money they are paying people for these, for these contracts is crazy because the luxury brands generally do not have an understanding of like, how much they should pay for who. And there's sort of no broker. Like, the agents are doing a great job selling these people and they're making money and good for them. But there's no one who has an understanding of the market. So they're just throwing like insane money at people who may not actually generate a lot. And I don't know, in the case of Gucci, I think that Demi Morris is an interesting person for them. I do know because I live in la. I knew they were filming the movie. All that's. They're filming like 10 minutes from my house. There were a lot of people who were supposed to be in that movie that weren't in it, like anything. Like people get attached to a project and they move. And I think, like, we're gonna see. I do think you're right that we've hit a saturation point. And I had lunch. A friend fix me up with a producer of. Of commercial shoots just to have lunch, like Eastside mom type vibe. But what she was Saying was that she's like, nobody's choosing celebrities this time of, like, the kind of smaller brands with a lot of money because it's just so oversaturated. So I think you're onto something for sure.
- [32:58]
B
All right, so. So I will. I will offer one show that I was. I would say, let down by that. I was disappointed. I did not like Ortega very much. I think. I think it was. And. And I think she's incredibly talented. I thought she was punching outside her weight class at Carvin and I. So I really liked. You know, as. As we've talked about before on the show. I think, like, I really like tennis. Lorenzo Musetti looked great in the Bottego leather jacket as he approached the court earlier this summer. But, like, And. And I. And I liked. I forgot who it was at Con that I think was in a suit.
- [33:35]
A
Vicky Creeps wore her a dress from her, and she looked fabulous at Venice.
- [33:40]
B
Maybe there was a lord in a suit too, or something. But. But. But this show, it felt incredibly heavy to me. Looking from afar, I did not like that shoulder line, that extended shoulder. I just felt like there was a leaden atmosphere to the whole collection, and it felt just overwrought and like she was really trying to squeeze herself into his box a little bit to met. To met you's box, and it suffered for it. I think there should have been more of her in there. I didn't. This one, I thought, this is nothing. This is. We're wheel spinning here.
- [34:17]
A
I use the word heavy. That's the only word you could use. Look, I have a huge amount of respect for her. She has worked her ass off and worked at a bunch of brands where she had no money. And so when I went backstage, when we went backstage, I asked her about this, and she was. And I could just see she just lit up. And she was like, it's amazing. I think she was probably a little overwhelmed of what's available to her. What I would say is I. I think it was too heavy. The. The negatives. It was too heavy. And I think. I don't think she was trying to stay in Mattu's box. She is not a directional designer. She does not have a look that feels her look is from other people. And some people are just like that. Like. And that's the way I said it, without using the p, because, like, give the woman a break. But that is what the situation has always been, and that's fine. I think the challenge is what not to give, not to go back. And I Didn't mention this because I'm like, I need to stop going after the stylists. I think it could benefit from her. She's very close with her stylist. I don't even want to name the person here, because it's just like, they're, like, very, very, very, very, very close. And I. They clearly have a connection. And I do think what I will say is all the retail people were like, I really liked it. I think it's gonna sell. It's just. It's not gonna be directional, and it needs to lighten up. So if she's able to lighten it up a bit. And she just used so many different techniques, understandably, because, like. And it also did feel like cohesive. Like, she knows what she wants to say. It's just like, the thing that he did. I was texting a friend the, like, designs the, like, Murano glass chairs. And then the design stuff, and he said, like, there is no fantasy. And that Matt, too, it was all about the fantasy. That being said, like, a lot of his stuff, the weight of the leather is an issue.
- [36:26]
B
Well, that was always. I always felt like that with his, like. And I always felt like I was on kind of an island there. I'd go and see it, and I would. Because I mostly, I think, interacted with it in the showroom because he didn't show during men's. And you'd go and you kind of look at it, and you're like, this is just dense. And you'd see it on Celebrity, and it would just look seasonally wrong or wrong for the occasion because it had just such a heaviness to it.
- [36:48]
A
Yeah. So I think you're right. I hope. And I was very, like, I just wanted to be respectful because it's really hard. And I'm really happy for her and honestly, like, proud of her. Like, it's. It's awesome. I hope that everybody gave some constructive feedback and wasn't just like, this was fabulous, because there it needs to be. They need to work on it. But I think it was like, okay, let's figure it out. And hopefully she does. She's awesome, and we're hoping that it. She gets it right. Fall is here, and it's the perfect excuse to refresh your wardrobe. And Macy's VIP fall fashion preview sale makes it easy. Right now you can take an extra 30% off top brands plus 15% off beauty. I am going to raid the Macy's beauty closet. You never see sales like this in beauty. The sale has something for everyone though women can shop Karl Lagerfeld Paris, bcbg, French Connection, Calvin Klein and Avec Le Fille. Plus shoes from Steve Madden, Franco Sarto and Arezzo and handbags from dkny, Karl Lagerfeld Paris and Calvin Klein. Men can grab Hugo Boss, Lacoste and Scotch and Soda while kids favorites include Abercrombie, Kids, Carter's and First Impressions. Beauty lovers, you'll get 15% off brands like Lancome, Clinique, Estee Lauder, YSL, Valentino, Armani and Dolce and Gabbana. Macy's Fall VIP Fashion Preview runs September 25 through October 5. Shop in store or online at Macy's.com and get your wardrobe ready for the season. You know those little habits that quietly upgrade your whole day. For me, it starts the moment I wake up with a giant glass of water. The breakfast of champions. Before coffee, before making my kids lunch, I grab a bottle of Fiji Water to get hydrated because hydration is my number one priority in life. Seriously, Fiji Water isn't just refreshing, it's Earth's finest water. It comes from the islands of Fiji, filtered through ancient volcanic rock and naturally preserved from external elements. It's bottled at the source and untouched by man until you unscrew the cap. Here's what makes it different. Fiji Water has a perfectly balanced 7.7 ph and has more than double the electrolytes as the other two top premium bottled water brands, giving its signature soft, smooth taste. Unlike the other two top premium bottled water brands, Fiji Water's electrolytes are 100% naturally occurring. Fiji Water is also leading the way in sustainability. Since 2022, their 330 and 500 milliliter bottles have been made using 100% recycled plastic. Fiji Water is the number one premium importer bottled water brand in the US and it's easy to see why Fiji Water is Earth's finest water. Okay, really quickly and then I want to talk about sneakers. What are you excited for in Paris?
- [40:06]
B
The kind of basic answers like, you know, I think, I think Dior I this is, you know, his first women's I think that the women's he's shown so far again on Celebrity on the red carpet has been, let's say, polarizing. I think maybe, let's let's put it that way.
- [40:23]
A
The stuff in the ad campaigns I love get me that gray and white rugby. I'm in.
- [40:29]
B
I I also I liked the I like the men's show. I have not so far liked how it's translated to Andrew Garfield Yeah, I don't.
- [40:40]
A
I. Yeah, I agree.
- [40:41]
B
It's just like something is missing there. And I. There's, like, at its worst, it just looks costume and. And. And I'm not. I. I liked on the Runway show how I thought, okay, these are things I'm familiar with. And this is. I can understand the language he's speaking here. Yeah, it's coming through as gibberish on. On some of these actors, so I'll be curious to see. And I think. I think it's tough. He went from being the darling at Loewe that we were all riding for and throughout in like a, you know, kind of underdog manner. Like, he. Again, it always felt like he was doing things that were much bigger than the scale of that brand and. And he felt like the most creative of that stable and what have you. Yeah, you are just such a bigger platform and podium. And I think there's gonna be obviously some growing pains within that. So we'll see. I think that show's tomorrow, so maybe by the time this comes out, people will have already watched it, but. And then Chanel, of course, you know, I mean, we'll see what that leads to.
- [41:47]
A
I've had some background info on both. Chanel is apparently amazing.
- [41:52]
B
Sure.
- [41:52]
A
Like, it's gonna be really minimalist.
- [41:54]
B
I'm sorry, Lauren. That's such, like a. Fashion. People just say that kind of stuff. Okay, sure. No, I'm so glad Chanel's gonn be amazing.
- [42:00]
A
There were other. They saw other things that was not. Were not amazing. Apparently it's really minimal. And I mean, did you see that I had a buried black dress?
- [42:10]
B
I did.
- [42:10]
A
I. I'm dying. Like, if it's $50,000, someone buy it for me. I don't care. I want it. I heard it's amazing. Like, I heard it's gonna be, but I think it is. It's gonna be. It's really minimal. I don't know if it's all black, but it's really minimal. That's what I heard on the. Jonathan, it's. First of all, he was never a red carpet designer, which someone brought up.
- [42:32]
B
To me, but I will say he was very good at dressing those actors and making them look very cool. In particular, like, at Loewe, there was always a thing with him and the actors that he seemed to authentically be friendly with and close to, and he made those guys look great.
- [42:49]
A
Yes, I agree. And I think Greta did end up look. She looked. Looked the best on this journey because she has an insane body and also is gorgeous. And also they get. They're obviously good friends. Sure. Like when you say dear friend in fashion parlance, they actually are. She. She gave him some award at the CFDA's, and she was like, my dear. Every person that night was like, my dear friend. And I was like, okay. Anyway, I think that's part of it. I just think it's hard. And he's gonna. He's gonna win. This guy is going to win. He has three. Three to five years. He's going to win. He's got to win. I think when. That Tuesday is going to be interesting. No, it's Wednesday. This is coming out on Tuesday. It's. The show is on Wednesday. It's going to be interesting.
- [43:38]
B
Right?
- [43:39]
A
It might not be perfect, but this. Our guy's going to do it. Like the ad campaigns. He deserves a. Whatever the ad campaign award is. They're so good of just those girls like their heads on the. On the. So bored. It's just like the opposite of Dior. Like, just so, like, Dior was boring and now Dior is bored. It's so funny. I love. I love the campaign. I think it's amazing. And Mia, Goth and Greta, they look awesome. And then obviously there's. I mean, there are a million. I don't have a lot of time, so we won't get into them. I'll have you back soon to chat about the rest. Really excited to discuss with you Becky Malinsky's recent story. That was inspired. Can I say this? Are you okay with that?
- [44:28]
B
You can do whatever you want.
- [44:29]
A
Okay. So it was inspired by a text conversation that the three of us were having where I mentioned. I think I mentioned Becky and then she mentioned it. But I went to the Joseph Altrazar show in New York, and I was wearing sneakers. It was Saturday morning. Because I usually will wear a sneaker to fashion shows on Saturday because, like, and I felt like a freak. I was wearing an A6 with, like, probably with high sport pants. Like, oh, no. With Phoebe Philo trousers. And I was like, I'll just wear Phoebe Philo trousers and T shirt and my Asics. And I felt, like, disgusting. No one wears sneakers anymore. And then Becky mentioned it, and you said, sneakers are no longer cool. What happened?
- [45:18]
B
I think. I think it's just, like, a whole confluence of things. Like, I think designer sneakers really faded in the post. Like, I mean, as I say that, like, you know, there is the low profile thing that's happening. Like that drish shoe that everyone was kind of behind for a second. There And I think just really we're at this moment where everything feels so forced and fabricated. And these sneaker trends in particular are very. They're just blank. They don't really have much thrust behind them. And you can kind of see, I think there's this thing. I was talking about it with Stella here. Like, you know, people get sold on. You have to buy the new thing, and you have to buy the new thing. You have to buy the new thing. I think the sneaker industry did itself a disservice by telling people over and over again, you got to buy this new thing. You got to have the low. Prof. We had the big shoe. Now it's the low profile shoe, you know, now. Oh, but sambas are played out, and then onitsuka tigers are played out. I think we've really hit a point where the mass public has just kind of gone, forget it. Like, why. Like, why am I, you know, if the sambas were perfectly fine, why am I cha. Why do I need to change things up? And then I think in between that there is a feeling of. In the fashion world that that was a. That we're moving more toward what would be a hard shoe again. I think you can just see that in where designers are playing and that design language and that. That progression coming through more in like a dress shoe or a loafer and. And finding ways to make that expressive as opposed to a sneaker. And it's just like, sneakers feel.
- [47:03]
A
So.
- [47:03]
B
They just feel chalk and. And, you know, listen, we're talking about this like it's over. It's not over.
- [47:08]
A
No, it's never over.
- [47:09]
B
But then again, if you look at. If you look at every large sneaker company in the world right now, their stock is way down over the course of several years, and them. Their ability to break a shoe and make it happen, it's. It's definitely diminished.
- [47:27]
A
Yeah, look, I think there's a lot of things it's just. And I really have to go, unfortunately. We'll talk. We'll have you back. We were going to do an episode, just, like, catching up on all the stuff you missed. Are we still going to do that at some point?
- [47:42]
B
No, I'll come on next year.
- [47:45]
A
Fine. So you're playing so hard to get with me. 20:26 Episode okay. The main thing is, I think it's just a silhouette thing. Like, it's the, like, dance shoe right now. It moved to, like, I work heads all summer. Like, it just is like a silhouette thing. It's it. And you're right it's back to a harder shoe. The reality of the matter is people, like comfort sneakers aren't going away. They're not gonna. In the same way leggings aren't going away. You know, all that stuff. But I think, like, as a fashion piece, it's been harder to maximize for that and. And will continue to be so it's just not. It's not the thing right now. You don't want to torture yourself. But, like, also, people don't leave their houses. The thing that I keep trying to remember is, like, people just don't leave their homes. That's why people are buying stuff. Because, like, why you don't need shoes. You wear Charvet slippers. So, Jacob, it was so great to have you.
- [48:44]
B
It's good to be back and.
- [48:46]
A
And I'll see you in 2026. Hopefully something will happen that you'll be so annoyed that you'll have to.
- [48:55]
B
I don't paint me as getting annoyed. If, if, if. If Leif taught me anything. These feelings, they come and they go and the world moves on.
- [49:04]
A
We'll talk later. Thank you. This was great.
- [49:07]
B
Bye. Good to see you.
- [49:08]
A
Bye. Good to see you. Fashion People is a presentation of of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey. JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.
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B
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A
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