Fashion People – Episode: “The Great Fashion Defenestration”

Host: Lauren Sherman
Guests: Laura Brown & Christina O’Neill
Date: October 14, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Lauren Sherman sits down with Laura Brown and Christina O’Neill, longtime magazine editors and newly minted authors of All the Cool Girls Get Fired: How to Let Go of Being Let Go and Come Back on Top. The episode delves into the evolving realities of creative industries—particularly fashion and media—where layoffs, pivots, and reinvention have become the norm. The trio unpacks the inspiration and structure behind Brown & O’Neill’s book, shares their own “defenestration” stories, tackles what’s shifting in the fashion industry post-pandemic, and explores everything from runway celebrations to the Victoria Beckham doc.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Book: All the Cool Girls Get Fired (05:08–13:03)

• Origin Story:
  The book originated from an Instagram post Laura Brown made after she and O’Neill were both let go from their high-profile media positions. The phrase “All the Coolest Girls Get Fired” struck a nerve with thousands, prompting Brown and O’Neill to explore the subject further:

  • “That response was so immediate and overwhelming… you could feel this tiny little psychological door opening.” (Laura Brown, 06:44)
  • “There’s so many people getting laid off right now. This could really be helpful.” (Christina O’Neill, 07:17)

• Book Structure:
  A blend of practical self-help (what to do when you get fired: money, healthcare, contracts, mental health) and high-profile anecdotes from women who went through professional loss and rebounded, including Oprah Winfrey, Katie Couric, and Angela Missoni.

  • “You eat your spinach—here’s how to handle your health care—but then let’s give you a story of a woman who you’d think was never like you.” (Laura Brown, 08:56)
  • “We wanted to make sure… there are a lot of different lenses on it [being fired], and we thought that was really important to share.” (Christina O’Neill, 10:02)

• Emotional Resonance:
  Nearly every interviewee could recall the visceral details of their firing, highlighting how universal and memorable the experience is.

  • “[Oprah] could tell us what the guy who fired her was drinking, like what soda he had that morning.” (Christina O’Neill, 13:25)
  • “It’s muscle memory. It’s fascinating.” (Laura Brown, 14:23)

2. Getting Fired: Personal Experiences and Industry Context (17:05–26:24)

• Defenestration Stories:
  Sherman, Brown, and O’Neill each reflect on their departures from major media roles.

  • “I tend to go first because I was chronologically canned… when I first walked in the doors of Time Inc., I could have heard a death rattle.” (Laura Brown, 18:48)
  • “I didn’t see it coming… When you stay in a job for that long, so much changes… we had just gone from strength to strength.” (Christina O’Neill, 21:20)
  • Both women underscore that even model employees in leadership roles are vulnerable to corporate shifts, regime changes, or economic downturns.

• The Takeaway:
  Navigating layoffs is now not about individual shortcomings, but systemic industry shrinkage.

  • “One of the big messages of the book is do not take it personally because 99.9% of the time these days it’s got nothing to do with you.” (Laura Brown, 25:44)
  • “It does take a minute to acknowledge that it was beyond my control.” (Christina O’Neill, 24:56)

3. Creative Reinvention and Career Next Steps (26:24–29:27)

• Post-Firing Careers:
  Brown has embraced a multi-hyphenate, project-based consulting career, while O’Neill is now Editor in Chief at Sotheby’s Magazine.

  • Both discussed the emotional roadmap from redundancy to new ventures, and how the book organically developed from their own processing.

• Community and Support:
  The Instagram post morphed into community-building, empowering other women to share their own stories.

  • “We had women just unloading on us… this is what’s happening. I’ve never actually said this before.” (Laura Brown, 29:27)
  • Their hope is the book lands as a roadmap and comfort to women navigating professional uncertainty.

4. Fashion Industry Shifts: Runways, Gender, Power Dynamics (30:20–40:52)

• Runway Reflections & the Chanel Moment (33:25–38:44):

  • Sherman probes the guests for thoughts on the most recent Chanel show, noting the industry’s hunger for fantasy after seasons of hyper-commercial, wearable fashion. They praise creative director Matthieu Blazy’s debut for its revived emotional resonance and “sense of occasion,” reminiscent of the late Alber Elbaz’s legendary shows.
    • “The joy, the lack of cynicism… he’s not too cool for himself… you could feel [that] warmth in the room.” (Laura Brown, 33:26)
    • “Seeing Matthieu be the sort of capstone… the sheer joy on [the final model’s] face just reminded me of why we do what we do.” (Christina O’Neill, 34:44)
  • Sherman notes European feedback: excitement about the creative “dream” as distinct from commercial product, and how the runway, ideally, should only ever be 20% of a brand’s business (as echoed in a town hall with Kering’s Luca de Meo).
    • “I think what Chanel did was… it did feel like a fantasy… that’s the reason European fashion has been so successful.” (Lauren Sherman, 38:44)

• Pressure on Women:
  The group discusses how the latest Fashion Month triggered conversations about impossible standards for women—body, beauty, expectations—with Sherman calling out the “bullshit” of supposed runway inclusivity.

  • “There was this narrative that all the designers hate women… you’re supposed to be a good mom, have a fancy job, be really hot, and really skinny.” (Lauren Sherman, 30:51)
  • “Sometimes people just get carried away in a concept.” (Laura Brown, 32:13)

5. Victoria Beckham: Netflix Doc and Brand Reflection (41:59–47:59)

• The Docuseries:
  All three are fans of Beckham personally and professionally, reminiscing about her ascent in fashion as designers and editors. They chuckle over the FOMO Victoria’s understated T-shirts and suits inspired on the doc.

  • “She started at the bottom and was like, I love this… and she battled through.” (Laura Brown, 43:43)
  • “You should be so proud of yourself because… when all the naysayers and your business was challenged—she freaking worked.” (Laura Brown, 44:22)

• Industry Kindness:
  Beckham is cited as an example that it’s possible to succeed in fashion without relinquishing basic kindness—a rarity for women in positions of power.

  • “Anything I’ve ever heard about that business is that she’s a really nice person…and that’s really hard.” (Lauren Sherman, 46:46)
  • “You both actually are thought of by your employees as nice, also. Most women, that does not happen.” (Lauren Sherman, 46:46)

• Fashion Product FOMO:
  The trio have a running joke about tracking down Beckham’s iconic gray T-shirt from the doc, tongue-in-cheek critiquing the missing e-commerce opportunities.

  • “We need the T-shirt. We need the gray suit. We need the red shirt… they need to reissue it.” (Lauren Sherman, 47:08)
  • “We can just hover a QR code over her somewhere.” (Laura Brown, 47:11)

• Product Endorsement:
  O’Neill raves about the VB Beauty line, especially eyeliners and skincare.

  • “I’m so into the eyeliners. The skincare stuff with Augustini is amazing.” (Christina O’Neill, 47:33)

6. Memorable Quotes & Highlights

• On Firing as Universal but Unspoken:

  “It’s better to have polarizing style than no style at all. And I think that’s the lesson here.”
  — Lauren Sherman (03:14)

• On Career Survival:

  “You are not your job—which is so true. I have to tell myself this every day for the last 20 years.”
  — Lauren Sherman (05:13)

• On Emotional Impact:

  “When we started putting the book together and researching and doing a lot of these interviews, it was still pretty raw for us… but just having these conversations with these women… you realize, oh no, it’s muscle memory.”
  — Christina O’Neill (13:25)

• On Community:

  “Women… still haven’t read it because it’s not out, but… you being so honest about this has allowed me to be more brave and admit what happened to me. That’s… why we did this.”
  — Laura Brown (29:27)

• On Fashion’s Future:

  “Just to be reconceived for a second, and have that reconception just be embraced and have that cynicism just drop to the floor just for a second is such a relief.”
  — Laura Brown (40:52)

Notable Segment Timestamps

• [05:08] – The Book’s Conception and Format
• [10:52] – Sourcing High-Profile Firing Stories
• [13:25] – Why Firings Are So Memorable
• [18:48] – Laura Brown Details Her Exit from InStyle
• [21:20] – Christina O’Neill’s Firing from WSJ Magazine
• [25:44] – The Takeaway: Don’t Take It Personally
• [29:27] – Building a Community Around the Book
• [33:25] – Chanel Show Review
• [41:59] – Victoria Beckham Doc Chat & Brand Power
• [47:33] – Victoria Beckham Beauty Recommendations

Tone and Takeaways

The episode maintains a candid, wry, and pragmatic tone, suffused with affection, humor, and hard-won wisdom among fashion insiders who have weathered major career pivots. Brown and O’Neill champion authenticity, emotional transparency, and a sense of community as antidotes to professional setbacks. Their love for the dream and spectacle of fashion remains undimmed—even as they skewer its contradictions.

For listeners seeking firsthand insight into the psychological and professional realities of working in creative industries—along with the pulse of fashion’s current anxieties and highs—this episode is a must-listen.