The Great Fashion Defenestration

Summary

Fashion People – Episode: “The Great Fashion Defenestration”

Host: Lauren Sherman
Guests: Laura Brown & Christina O’Neill
Date: October 14, 2025

---

Overview

In this episode, Lauren Sherman sits down with Laura Brown and Christina O’Neill, longtime magazine editors and newly minted authors of All the Cool Girls Get Fired: How to Let Go of Being Let Go and Come Back on Top. The episode delves into the evolving realities of creative industries—particularly fashion and media—where layoffs, pivots, and reinvention have become the norm. The trio unpacks the inspiration and structure behind Brown & O’Neill’s book, shares their own “defenestration” stories, tackles what’s shifting in the fashion industry post-pandemic, and explores everything from runway celebrations to the Victoria Beckham doc.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Book: All the Cool Girls Get Fired (05:08–13:03)

• Origin Story:
  The book originated from an Instagram post Laura Brown made after she and O’Neill were both let go from their high-profile media positions. The phrase “All the Coolest Girls Get Fired” struck a nerve with thousands, prompting Brown and O’Neill to explore the subject further:

  • “That response was so immediate and overwhelming… you could feel this tiny little psychological door opening.” (Laura Brown, 06:44)
  • “There’s so many people getting laid off right now. This could really be helpful.” (Christina O’Neill, 07:17)

• Book Structure:
  A blend of practical self-help (what to do when you get fired: money, healthcare, contracts, mental health) and high-profile anecdotes from women who went through professional loss and rebounded, including Oprah Winfrey, Katie Couric, and Angela Missoni.

  • “You eat your spinach—here’s how to handle your health care—but then let’s give you a story of a woman who you’d think was never like you.” (Laura Brown, 08:56)
  • “We wanted to make sure… there are a lot of different lenses on it [being fired], and we thought that was really important to share.” (Christina O’Neill, 10:02)

• Emotional Resonance:
  Nearly every interviewee could recall the visceral details of their firing, highlighting how universal and memorable the experience is.

  • “[Oprah] could tell us what the guy who fired her was drinking, like what soda he had that morning.” (Christina O’Neill, 13:25)
  • “It’s muscle memory. It’s fascinating.” (Laura Brown, 14:23)

---

2. Getting Fired: Personal Experiences and Industry Context (17:05–26:24)

• Defenestration Stories:
  Sherman, Brown, and O’Neill each reflect on their departures from major media roles.

  • “I tend to go first because I was chronologically canned… when I first walked in the doors of Time Inc., I could have heard a death rattle.” (Laura Brown, 18:48)
  • “I didn’t see it coming… When you stay in a job for that long, so much changes… we had just gone from strength to strength.” (Christina O’Neill, 21:20)
  • Both women underscore that even model employees in leadership roles are vulnerable to corporate shifts, regime changes, or economic downturns.

• The Takeaway:
  Navigating layoffs is now not about individual shortcomings, but systemic industry shrinkage.

  • “One of the big messages of the book is do not take it personally because 99.9% of the time these days it’s got nothing to do with you.” (Laura Brown, 25:44)
  • “It does take a minute to acknowledge that it was beyond my control.” (Christina O’Neill, 24:56)

---

3. Creative Reinvention and Career Next Steps (26:24–29:27)

• Post-Firing Careers:
  Brown has embraced a multi-hyphenate, project-based consulting career, while O’Neill is now Editor in Chief at Sotheby’s Magazine.

  • Both discussed the emotional roadmap from redundancy to new ventures, and how the book organically developed from their own processing.

• Community and Support:
  The Instagram post morphed into community-building, empowering other women to share their own stories.

  • “We had women just unloading on us… this is what’s happening. I’ve never actually said this before.” (Laura Brown, 29:27)
  • Their hope is the book lands as a roadmap and comfort to women navigating professional uncertainty.

---

4. Fashion Industry Shifts: Runways, Gender, Power Dynamics (30:20–40:52)

• Runway Reflections & the Chanel Moment (33:25–38:44):

  • Sherman probes the guests for thoughts on the most recent Chanel show, noting the industry’s hunger for fantasy after seasons of hyper-commercial, wearable fashion. They praise creative director Matthieu Blazy’s debut for its revived emotional resonance and “sense of occasion,” reminiscent of the late Alber Elbaz’s legendary shows.
    • “The joy, the lack of cynicism… he’s not too cool for himself… you could feel [that] warmth in the room.” (Laura Brown, 33:26)
    • “Seeing Matthieu be the sort of capstone… the sheer joy on [the final model’s] face just reminded me of why we do what we do.” (Christina O’Neill, 34:44)
  • Sherman notes European feedback: excitement about the creative “dream” as distinct from commercial product, and how the runway, ideally, should only ever be 20% of a brand’s business (as echoed in a town hall with Kering’s Luca de Meo).
    • “I think what Chanel did was… it did feel like a fantasy… that’s the reason European fashion has been so successful.” (Lauren Sherman, 38:44)

• Pressure on Women:
  The group discusses how the latest Fashion Month triggered conversations about impossible standards for women—body, beauty, expectations—with Sherman calling out the “bullshit” of supposed runway inclusivity.

  • “There was this narrative that all the designers hate women… you’re supposed to be a good mom, have a fancy job, be really hot, and really skinny.” (Lauren Sherman, 30:51)
  • “Sometimes people just get carried away in a concept.” (Laura Brown, 32:13)

---

5. Victoria Beckham: Netflix Doc and Brand Reflection (41:59–47:59)

• The Docuseries:
  All three are fans of Beckham personally and professionally, reminiscing about her ascent in fashion as designers and editors. They chuckle over the FOMO Victoria’s understated T-shirts and suits inspired on the doc.

  • “She started at the bottom and was like, I love this… and she battled through.” (Laura Brown, 43:43)
  • “You should be so proud of yourself because… when all the naysayers and your business was challenged—she freaking worked.” (Laura Brown, 44:22)

• Industry Kindness:
  Beckham is cited as an example that it’s possible to succeed in fashion without relinquishing basic kindness—a rarity for women in positions of power.

  • “Anything I’ve ever heard about that business is that she’s a really nice person…and that’s really hard.” (Lauren Sherman, 46:46)
  • “You both actually are thought of by your employees as nice, also. Most women, that does not happen.” (Lauren Sherman, 46:46)

• Fashion Product FOMO:
  The trio have a running joke about tracking down Beckham’s iconic gray T-shirt from the doc, tongue-in-cheek critiquing the missing e-commerce opportunities.

  • “We need the T-shirt. We need the gray suit. We need the red shirt… they need to reissue it.” (Lauren Sherman, 47:08)
  • “We can just hover a QR code over her somewhere.” (Laura Brown, 47:11)

• Product Endorsement:
  O’Neill raves about the VB Beauty line, especially eyeliners and skincare.

  • “I’m so into the eyeliners. The skincare stuff with Augustini is amazing.” (Christina O’Neill, 47:33)

---

6. Memorable Quotes & Highlights

• On Firing as Universal but Unspoken:

  “It’s better to have polarizing style than no style at all. And I think that’s the lesson here.”
  — Lauren Sherman (03:14)

• On Career Survival:

  “You are not your job—which is so true. I have to tell myself this every day for the last 20 years.”
  — Lauren Sherman (05:13)

• On Emotional Impact:

  “When we started putting the book together and researching and doing a lot of these interviews, it was still pretty raw for us… but just having these conversations with these women… you realize, oh no, it’s muscle memory.”
  — Christina O’Neill (13:25)

• On Community:

  “Women… still haven’t read it because it’s not out, but… you being so honest about this has allowed me to be more brave and admit what happened to me. That’s… why we did this.”
  — Laura Brown (29:27)

• On Fashion’s Future:

  “Just to be reconceived for a second, and have that reconception just be embraced and have that cynicism just drop to the floor just for a second is such a relief.”
  — Laura Brown (40:52)

---

Notable Segment Timestamps

• [05:08] – The Book’s Conception and Format
• [10:52] – Sourcing High-Profile Firing Stories
• [13:25] – Why Firings Are So Memorable
• [18:48] – Laura Brown Details Her Exit from InStyle
• [21:20] – Christina O’Neill’s Firing from WSJ Magazine
• [25:44] – The Takeaway: Don’t Take It Personally
• [29:27] – Building a Community Around the Book
• [33:25] – Chanel Show Review
• [41:59] – Victoria Beckham Doc Chat & Brand Power
• [47:33] – Victoria Beckham Beauty Recommendations

---

Tone and Takeaways

The episode maintains a candid, wry, and pragmatic tone, suffused with affection, humor, and hard-won wisdom among fashion insiders who have weathered major career pivots. Brown and O’Neill champion authenticity, emotional transparency, and a sense of community as antidotes to professional setbacks. Their love for the dream and spectacle of fashion remains undimmed—even as they skewer its contradictions.

---

For listeners seeking firsthand insight into the psychological and professional realities of working in creative industries—along with the pulse of fashion’s current anxieties and highs—this episode is a must-listen.

Transcript

[Narrator/Ad Host]

Nobody wants to pay rent, but if you have to, BILT makes it worth it. Bilt is revolutionizing how millions think about paying rent by rewarding their members with points and exclusive benefits around their neighborhood every single month. By paying rent through Bilt, you earn flexible points that can be redeemed toward.

[Lauren Sherman]

Hundreds of hotels and airlines, a future.

[Narrator/Ad Host]

Rent payment, your next Lyft ride, and more. But it doesn't stop there. Bilt is about making your entire neighborhood more rewarding. You can dine out at your favorite local restaurants and earn additional points, get VIP treatment at certain fitness studios, and enjoy exclusive experiences just for built members every month. Bilt is turning a monthly expense into an opportunity to earn rewards and discover the best that your neighborhood has to offer. Your rent is finally working for you. Earn points on rent and around your neighborhood, wherever you call home, by going to joinbuilt.com fashion that's J-O-I-N B I L T.com fashion make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you.

[Somsation Wine Host]

You know that moment when you're headed to a dinner party and you grab the same run of the mill wine off the grocery store shelf? Well, now those days are over. Don't settle for ordinary wine. You deserve better. Here's the Some of the best bottles aren't sit stores at all. They're being crafted by top independent producers at small wineries you'd probably never find on your own. That's where Somsation comes in. Somsation's expert team of sommeliers hand selects incredible wines that redefine what exceptional tastes like. These bottles are small batch crafted with pure ingredients and real care, never mass produced. Whether you want just one special bottle, a guided tasting experience, or a full wine club membership, Somsation makes it easy to elevate your wine game. It's like having a personal sommelier lu service with a rebellious edge. And you're not just giving wine, you're giving someone their next favorite bottle. Check out the massive online shop explore curated clubs or dive into private tastings and sommelier services. Shop [e-mail] FashionPeople.

[Lauren Sherman]

Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show.

[Narrator/Ad Host]

Are Laura Brown and Christina o', Neill.

[Lauren Sherman]

Authors of all the Cool Girls Get Fired, how to Let Go of Being Let Go and Come Back on Top. We're discussing their respective defenestrations, the new Chanel Runway Rage, the Victoria Beckham Doc, and Plenty More. Happy Tuesday, everyone. I am in Los Angeles. I'm heading to Nashville tomorrow for a couple of days to check out a new Hermes store.

[Narrator/Ad Host]

All the bigwigs are coming in from.

[Lauren Sherman]

Paris for it, but I'm really going there to see Libby Calloway. At least that's a big part of it. If you don't know Libby Calloway, I don't know what you're doing with your life. Anyway, I'm sure I'll have plenty more to share on Friday. About that in Monday's line sheet, I did an analysis of the Nike skims launch and got some pretty interesting intel about the numbers.

[Narrator/Ad Host]

You may be surprised, but you have to read line sheet to find out.

[Lauren Sherman]

Please subscribe. In other news, RIP Diane Keaton, Laura and Christina and I were going to talk about this, but we forgot. So Laura, of course, like many celebs, is friends with Diane. Oh, was friends with Diane Keaton. And it's legit. Cause Laura's actually friends with people I don't know. It's an amazing skill. Not one that I have. Anyway, there are a million people who will dissect the significance of Diane Keaton's fashion choices over the next few weeks. I would say that I actually really disliked the way she dressed. I found it annoying. I didn't think she looked good. I thought she looked weird. But that's okay. It's better to have polarizing style than no style at all. And I think that's the lesson here. Most people just don't try. They don't wear what makes them feel good. At least she was wearing what made her feel good. It's not that I don't think she had style. I just didn't like it. And that's okay. Anyway, let's get going with Laura and Christina, who were, unsurprisingly, great. And I hope you enjoy this. Christina o' Neill and Laura Brown, welcome to Fashion People. Thank you.

[Christina O'Neill]

Thanks for having us, Lauren.

[Laura Brown]

We've always wanted to be fashion people.

[Lauren Sherman]

You both are our ultimate fashion people. So first off, happy pub day.

[Christina O'Neill]

Thank you.

[Lauren Sherman]

Thank you. Golly, it's been a long time. Coming from a deleted Instagram post.

[Narrator/Ad Host]

Yes.

[Christina O'Neill]

Archived. Archived.

[Laura Brown]

Archived. Yeah, I know it's two and a half years roundabout.

[Lauren Sherman]

We've aged so quickly. I want to talk to you all about a lot of things. Obviously, the book is number one. Why did you so so this book, all the. All the Cool Girls Get Fired. The what's the sub line.

[Laura Brown]

How to Let Go of Being Let Go and Come Back on top exactly.

[Lauren Sherman]

How to let go of being let go. Because you are not your job. Which is so true. I have to tell myself this every day for the last 20 years. You're not your job. I want to talk quickly about the kind of formatting of the book and why you all decided to write it. Because it's very interesting. It's like a mix of self help and also like personal stories of a lot of high profile and insidery people, but also obviously very famous people. Oprah, Katie Couric, so many of those.

[Laura Brown]

But.

[Lauren Sherman]

Where did this come from and why did you decide to do it?

[Laura Brown]

Gotta say, we laugh all the time about the fact that neither one of us has read a single self help book, but we happen to have written one.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, it's interesting because of the way the format is not a typical.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah. Service. I mean, service. We're magazine editors, so we, you know, come from an era of magazine making where service journalism was, you know, sort of part of how you talked about fashion. But to go back to the beginning, you know, the book came from the overwhelming response that we got to that Instagram post that Laura put up the night we had drinks together, which was about two, three weeks, I think, after I had been fired. And we posted this picture on Instagram with the caption, all the coolest girls get fired. And their response was so immediate and overwhelming.

[Laura Brown]

Yeah, just, you know, you know when you're like in the movies and you're looking at messages coming, you know, And I was like, well, oh my God. That. I said, oh, legends. Oh, actually that kind of maybe happened to me too, like all of this stuff. And it was just like, oh, we.

[Christina O'Neill]

Have touched in a nerve.

[Ad Host]

Yeah.

[Laura Brown]

And sort of like you could feel just this tiny little like psychological door opening, you know, and that's when, you know, we're like at night going, okay. And that's when Christina called me when all the most powerful things happen. Bathrooms. We were both getting ready for the day, like early the next morning, and Christina texted me actually and said something like, this is a book. You were already then even going, like, there's so many people getting laid off right now. This could really be helpful. And that was two and a half years ago when we obviously, we'd just been laid off and we're looking around us and seeing what was going on. And the whole book also sprang from sort of our experience, our experience in the media, which has been some, you know, as we know, all the, all the things are going on the media. And in some ways a bellwether for some things that are now happening in broader industries. You know, we've been facing headwinds for such a long time, but now it's just everywhere.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, it feels like to me, the thing I've been sort of reckoning with in the last year is if you work in an industry that is creative and that that is at one time was extremely profitable or maybe is still extremely profitable in certain aspects, but that is becoming more and more difficult. So not only are people going to get laid off, but the businesses are changing and they're just going to get smaller. And you know, as you all know, I live in la, so I'm seeing it in happening in Hollywood, but then in the fashion industry it's happening too. And obviously in media for is probably a little bit earlier, but it does feel like when you were all choosing. So the structure is kind of how did should you get a lawyer? Then the next episode or next chapter is Katie Couric's story of how when she got fired, how did you all decide who to feature? I mean obviously if Oprah's gonna do it. Yes, but like how did you even know about asking Oprah?

[Laura Brown]

So yeah, the double structure is twofold. Number one, we wanted to address the things that you freak out about. First it's like, you know, a freak out terror alert. Like it's like number one, money. Number two, healthcare. Number three, mental health. You know, and so we wanted to give it's kind of like spinach and pie. You know, here's you eat your spinach and you and here's how to handle your health care. But then let's give you a story of a woman who you think was never like you, who you would think is goals. She's never had a bad day. Oprah's been walking around with a basket full of produce in Maui for 20 years. You know what I mean? But guess what? So we chose these women because they're high profile, extremely successful, oftentimes extremely famous. But at some point they were all fired. And they're in exactly the same position as so many of us. They weren't who they were, they weren't the level of success. And so the first notion is to bring an idea of community. Like that happened to them too. And then just to fire up a dream a little bit to be like that happened to her. This happened. And then, and then, and then she picked herself up and Faye intervened or she recognized her skills or she made a pivot or whatever the situation is. And there's so many, everyone's successful in the book, but they all do different things, you know, and so it was very, very different.

[Christina O'Neill]

All of their firings are very different. I think that was another sort lens that we put things through. We wanted to make sure, you know, my firing was actually quite kind of traditional and corporate, you know, in the HR room being pushed to the packet of paper. But there's so many stories in the book where, you know, people are either fired by their clients, like the sports agent, or fired by the investors they sort of welcomed into their companies and then they got pushed out. So there are a lot of different kind of lenses on it that we thought were really important to share. So obviously some of the stories we knew, but then some of the women, you know, hadn't really shared their. You sort of had heard that at some point. Oprah, like, it was kind of part of her narrative, but it hadn't been well told. I mean, when we interviewed her, she said, you know what? I've never really talked about this.

[Lauren Sherman]

So Interesting.

[Laura Brown]

Yeah. You could go like in a bit of a Wikipedia and find a little thing, you know, and you sort of scrap around. But it was sort of from just Laura. We were like, didn't that happen to Oprah? And then we kind of ask around and then some people put their hands up, like actually Angela and Margherita Missoni that I know we'll get to. But they stuck their hand up in the comments on the first post saying we were. Which was awesome. You know what I mean? To be that frank about it.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

That one in particular was obviously interesting to me because I am. And Angela. It's Angela right now.

[Laura Brown]

Angelina Angela.

[Lauren Sherman]

Angela says in the book, I just think it's a really good brand. And Missoni, to me as a reporter, is this brand that like, could be a billion dollar business and is like $100 million business. And it drives me nuts because I just think it has all the ingredients, it has the design, familiar design. It has the name recognition, iconography has.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes, like everything it would be. There are so few brands left that are.

[Laura Brown]

Could.

[Lauren Sherman]

Are basically like turnkey that you could make really big. And Missoni is so obvious. And I thought, you know, I would hear about Angela kind of expressing dissatisfaction with the situation and. And was pretty open about it. But I think the fact that they kind of sat down and were really honest with you is. It also just shows. I mean, obviously you all have really great access, but the honesty that you got out of these people, of these women, is really, I think, rare. And it Will everyone. You know, even if you haven't been fired, you've. You've experienced this feeling. Like everyone has experienced this sort of displacement. Feeling of displacement. And I think it does feel like a real tool book for. And a comment on our culture and society right at the moment.

[Laura Brown]

Yeah, it's lovely to take. Sorry. The high profile and sort of not like they're just like us, but they are, you know. Sorry, Christina, go on.

[Christina O'Neill]

No, I was just gonna say, in the case of Angela and Margarita, it was a really emotional conversation. And I think so many of the conversations we had, you know, I think me probably a little more than Laura. Like, I'm a little more emo, which.

[Laura Brown]

Is funny because I'm more. More like this most of the time. And she's quieter, but she keeps it in for the emotions to come out.

[Christina O'Neill]

But it was so fascinating how many women were brought back to the room where it happened as soon as we got going and got talking, like, with absolute clarity, like, Oprah could tell us what the guy who fired her was drinking, like, what soda he had that morning. And I think, you know, when you're sort of hearing these stories from these super high profile people and you think like, oh, Lisa Kudrow can't still carry this. She remembers it like it was yesterday. And that was also sort of reassuring. Cause, I mean, when we started kind of putting the book together and researching and doing a lot of these interviews, it was still pretty raw for us, you know, now we're obviously two and a half years in and things. You know, time is the greatest healer of all. But just having these conversations with these women who you think, oh, she's moved way past it. And then you sort of realize, oh, no.

[Laura Brown]

Like, it's muscle memory. It's fascinating. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

I'll never forget getting fired from the stationery store on Beacon street in Boston. See, you know, probably forget those women's names.

[Laura Brown]

Yep.

[Lauren Sherman]

But, oh, no, I'll never forget them. And you know what? It's fine. I did lie to them and didn't tell them I was moving to England and I was so.

[Laura Brown]

But they still suck. Yeah, yeah.

[Christina O'Neill]

There's not a lot of fired for cause in our book.

[Lauren Sherman]

But they definitely fired me because I was not good at the stationary stuff, like cutting the. It was a really fancy stationery. Yeah. I'm like, I'm not. I can't do that kind of stuff. And I was like, I love stationery. I want to work here. And they were just like, this girl's too. She's not clean enough for this.

[Laura Brown]

Wait is completely irrelevant because I wasn't fired but I probably would have been when I moved back from London after doing my two year stint there when I was in my like mid twenties. Before I got back into magazines, I worked at the Vers Versace for six weeks of Versace store in this big marble something in Sydney. But I couldn't gift wrap to say yes, this is.

[Lauren Sherman]

I couldn't gift wrap that was part of this too and just be like, yeah, tape and hilarious.

[Christina O'Neill]

I did not know about this Versace phase in your lifelore, but it kind of makes sense.

[Laura Brown]

It's a sordid little secret.

[Lauren Sherman]

Would you like joke and call it Versace? Like make jokes about.

[Laura Brown]

You know, that's in my.

[Narrator/Ad Host]

In my.

[Laura Brown]

Yeah, I do probably. I just. I was so. I was so very bad. Anyway, thankfully I found something else to do.

[Dermalogica Ad Host]

Get smoother, brighter skin instantly. In one easy step, Dermalogica's Daily Microfoliant gives you the smooth, glowy skin you want without damaging your skin barrier. This gentle exfoliating powder activates with water to smooth out rough texture and brighten skin. It's powerful enough to deliver results, yet gentle enough to use every single day, even on sensitive skin. See the results for yourself. Visit dermalogica.com and use code Smooth at cart for an exclusive free gift with $65 purchase.

[Candace Dillard Bassett]

What's up guys? It's Candace Dillard Bassett, former Real Housewife of Potomac. And I'm Michael Arseneault, author of the New York Times bestseller I Can't Date J. And this is Undomesticated, the podcast where we aren't just saying the quiet parts out loud. We're putting it all on the kitchen table and inviting you to the function. If you're ready for some bold takes and a little bit of chaos. Welcome to Undomesticated. Follow and listen to Undomesticated, available wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lauren Sherman]

So I want to briefly talk about your defenestration.

[Laura Brown]

Yes, sorry, this is being.

[Lauren Sherman]

And I just want to. Yeah, I just want to apologize to Christina. I never used the word defenestration. I think I called you that. You got sacked. I like I used a British word because I was very against using defenestration in line sheet. I was like, defenestration will never be in line sheet. And eventually I did has the exclusive on it. Exclusive.

[Laura Brown]

I love.

[Lauren Sherman]

I know. Eventually I did allow them to put it in once they like inserted it. And I was like, okay, fine.

[Laura Brown]

It's so good.

[Lauren Sherman]

I guess the question, Laura, you were lucky you. I was not at Pucket when you got fired.

[Laura Brown]

What would your phrasing have been? She's. She's ascended. No.

[Christina O'Neill]

Terminated.

[Lauren Sherman]

Here's a terminated.

[Laura Brown]

I felt terminated with my language. Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

Like you're both smart people. You're in the media. You had these jobs for a long time. Did you both like think this was gonna happen or were you surprised? You're like. Because obviously you both have been fine. Because you're both like incredibly talented. And I think seeing when it happened to both of you, I was like, well, those, those people are not. There are people that you think, well, who knows what will happen to them. And there are some of them who have asked me for free upgrades to inner circle cause they can't get a job. They are men. But I knew you guys would be fine. So I'm just curious, like, did you knowing, like thinking about zooming out in the state of media, like, did you think you were going to do it for 10 more years or were you like, I think that I'm going to have to change up anyway at some point.

[Laura Brown]

We're different. And I'll go. I tend to go first because I was chronologically canned. Sacked first. We were, you know, I saw. I was in stuff for five years and when I first walked in the doors of Time Inc. I could have heard a death rattle because Time Inc. Was going down pretty soon after. So they kind. So I sort of got in the door just started. Trump was elected for the first time. Time Inc. Starts to die. I remember I hadn't been there that long. We had to lay off while that was happening. Then we got bought by Meredith, who was actually a bunch of conservative guys from Des Moines who actually got on with really well. They were very straightforward. You know, they're kind of old school magazine guys. But that took us through. Then we ended up with COVID and all of that year. So most, you know, a good two something years of my five were not in the office, you know. And so Meredith was. Was good given that. And then we were, you know, when Covid had ended, we were. And I had, in this time I had registered my own business. I had like gone on like legal zoom and gotten a, you know, registered my business in Delaware and gone on like, go daddy and make myself a, you know, my own email address just to sort of.

[Christina O'Neill]

I.

[Laura Brown]

For some reason I knew that I was curious beyond it. And I also knew that I wanted to insure my. Myself subliminally. It wasn't like I'm gonna go. And then we were bought by the third company, which was at the time Dash, which became Meredith, which is now called People, Inc. But they. They had owned us for. They bought us, I think in November 21st, I guess. And. And then we were all let go. February 2022. So I was. No, I did. I didn't. I did and didn't. Because I was really quite thinking about doing my own thing. I was getting very tired of the change in the economics, old fashioned things in fashion and the way you've got to try and keep your business alive. And we'd done such great work through Covid, like we really did. I was so proud of everything we did. And then I remember I write about it in the book, but I remember it was the next cover after. I certainly don't miss Covid, but it was like we were doing some actress and she was a Louis Vuitton face and she had to wear Louis Vuitton. And I was like, oh, God, we're back here, aren't we? We're back here just being sponcon. And I just. It's not my thing. And so I was a bit dog with a head out the window, I say. But that said I was so dog with a head out the window. I remember my managing editor saying one day we don't have a budget yet. And I was like, oh, it'll come. And then. So I did not. Even though I thought I might go at the end of 2022, I did not see February 2022 coming up.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. What about you, Christina?

[Christina O'Neill]

I didn't see it coming. You know, there had been a regime change at the top of the masthead and Emma Tucker was the fourth editor in chief of the newspaper during my tenure. You know, I was there for over 10 years. And so when she came in, you know, I just sort of kept my head down and kept doing what we were doing. We had had a really good year, advertising wise, the year before and had just been like growing and expanding. I mean, I think the thing is when you stay in a job for that long, so much changes. Like, I always joke that when I started at WSJ, I set up our Instagram account on my phone, which was my first iPhone. I didn't even have an iPhone until I got to the Journal. I was a hardcore BlackBerry person and set up the Instagram with my cat name as the password. I mean, that's how like lo fi social media was when we took over. So it had been such a period of growth that every single Six months. There was some new thing that we were tackling. And we had just gone from strength to strength to strength. Like, we had launched this digital team. Our print was so successful in terms of advertising, et cetera, et cetera. So when Emma came in, you know, obviously when you have a new boss, you're sort of thinking, okay, you know, maybe she's going to bring in her own people. Maybe, you know. But then right when she started was when the whole situation in Russia happened with Ivan. Sorry. So she was busy. I mean, that was like an international crisis of epic proportions. So it wasn't like I was sitting down, you know, on the fourth floor, like, twiddling my thumbs, wondering when I was going to get my moment. And then finally a meeting was set and I was super excited to go knock her socks off. And I had PowerPoints and presentations and the whole thing. And 10 minutes before the meeting, it was changed from her office to hr. And so I knew in the instant, but again, you know, I certainly didn't see it coming.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, it's interesting for me, observing both of you as a reporter and did stories with both of you when I worked at my old job about your work. Laura, I remember going into your office in InStyle and chatting. And just the thing to me that's interesting is like, you both are people examples of doing it right. Like, Christina, you were so untouchable to me. Like, you're the advertisers loved you. You have amazing taste. You had good access, you did interesting stories. You were consolidating power every year. I was like, when is Christina gonna take over more part more of this thing? Laura, you were sort of, to me, the new example of what an editor in chief of, like a glossy should be. You were very public. You were accessible, but also had access and you dreamed big and all of that stuff. And what both things show is like it doesn't matter if there's another variable that you can't control and you can't control anything.

[Christina O'Neill]

Exactly. Yeah. But it does take a minute to acknowledge that it was beyond my control. It did take time for me to see it. I mean, in the instant it happened, you know, of course, she didn't know me. Like, I'd never met Emma until that meeting. So it wasn't like I was being fired because she didn't think, you know, we would. We would gel. You know, she had no way of knowing. But the circumstances were beyond my control, you know, and it's not like every single thought that, you know, goes into someone making that decision is laid out bare for you. You know, I was just simply told she was going in a different direction.

[Laura Brown]

But also, I mean, thank you for saying both those things about us. But that was sort of behind the post in the first place. This sort of stubborn acknowledgment of like, no, we're good, we're good at our jobs, we remain good at our jobs, and we got fired. And we're not alone in that, you know, and especially now with hundreds of thousands of people every week. You know what I mean? So one of the big messages of the book is do not take it personally because 99.9% of the time these days it's got nothing to do with you, you know, and so it was, it was a very quick, again, stubborn ownership, because we think that that's what you work towards in your career is ownership, you know, of the good and the bad. And owning the bad helps you move on faster.

[Lauren Sherman]

So as you were. So you both, Laura, you have, you're doing a million things. You have like a sort of consulting project based thing that you do. And then obviously, Christina, you're now editor in chief of Sotheby's magazine, which feels like the right. It felt like the right next thing for you and allows you to do what you do, but in kind of a more modern framework or something. But as you all were kind of figuring your stuff out and Laura, you mentioned that you were already sort of thinking about this.

[Narrator/Ad Host]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

How did you conceive? Did you go to your agent, your. I'm sure you all had a book agent already or someone immediately and start plotting this? Or did you think, okay, let's work out our individual situations and then we'll come back about the book. So all happened pretty fast.

[Laura Brown]

Yeah, well, I was already going, So I was 14 months ahead of Christina when I got fired. So I had already been working on my own projects and I was working with Red and I was doing all my, all my stuff.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh, yes.

[Laura Brown]

So that was already. Because a decent amount of time had passed for me. So thankfully I was, you know, and I was, it was good. Cause I was sort of the one up the road with the flashlight when she got fired going, it's okay, you know, so, you know, it only really gelled the book. And Christina was at that point at Southern. I don't know when the book was happening. No, she wasn't.

[Christina O'Neill]

I was still at the Journal.

[Laura Brown]

She was still a journal. She just gotten laid off. So. Yes, for the book. The book came up directly after the podcast. I Mean after the. Sorry, after I said again, the book came up directly after the Instagram post. And then actually I didn't have a book agent then I had an unscripted agent, Bradley. And I was like, oh, would this be a thing?

[Lauren Sherman]

I know Bradley.

[Laura Brown]

He represents Puck. That's here. Yes, he does. Very proudly. Very proudly. And I said, can you connect me with Elissa Rubin, who is a magnificent lit agent there? And so we move really fast from that point. So we had written from when we met up sort of the end of April, by the end of May23, we'd written a draft proposal on Christina's dad's couch at his 70th birthday. Shout out Larry Richards, Charlotte Lyric Riches and sent that off. So, yeah, then, then that started to cook and then we sold it six months later to gallery.

[Lauren Sherman]

Amazing. And okay, you're launching tomorrow. It's obviously gonna be big.

[Laura Brown]

That's a cross fingers noise.

[Lauren Sherman]

Definitely gonna be bigger. What do you all want? Like, do you wanna do a TV show with it? What do you like? Is that like. I'm sure, I'm sure you're talking about it, but what do you. What in your dream scenario, what would be the next thing that happens with this thing?

[Christina O'Neill]

Well, the first thing has to happen is that we have to have a successful book.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Christina O'Neill]

So we're really focused on that. Obviously we're having, you know, interesting conversations, but we're really just trying not to get over our skis on it and, and stay in the moment and, you know, make sure that this book lands and connects with all the women out there that we're hoping to connect with. And, you know, we'll go from there.

[Laura Brown]

We know we have a community. We know. Look, we. From, from the. Again, the Instagram too. And then we set up an email address as we were writing the book. You know, like, share your stories. And we had women just unloading on us. You know, so many of them are in the book as well, sort of saying, this is what's happening. I've never actually said this before. So we know we have that community out there. And even now we're a day out and some women haven't. Still haven't read it because it's not out, you know, but we've seen this on, did the Oprah podcast like last week. You being so honest about this has allowed me to be more brave and admit what happened to me. And that's exactly why we did this. You know, women. Someone came up to me in the street last week and said, I just Got fired three days ago. Thank you for doing this book. That's. That's it, you know, because when you're that beetle on your back, when you don't know where to go, you don't know even where to start. Like, we're like the roadmap and the hub, you know, that your friend can give you or anyone can give you that. You just don't feel as helpless. Especially now, because the job market is such a mess.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. And also, I think women are. I've been thinking this about this a lot because of. I just got back from Fashion Month.

[Laura Brown]

You sure did.

[Lauren Sherman]

And it was a very weird fashion. It was awesome. I had a really great time and was depressed for the first time. Usually I'm like, thank God. But I was kind of sad to leave. I don't know why. I was rare, and it was crazy. Everybody was being psycho. Like, it was completely insane. But I liked it. I don't know.

[Christina O'Neill]

Gotta tell us more.

[Lauren Sherman]

Some of it we'll talk about offline. Not. Not for. Not for fashion people. But one thing that was interesting was there was this narrative that sort of came out of it that, like, all the designers hate women. And I thought, like, Vanessa Friedman did this piece, which I obviously truly admire. Vanessa. I love her writing. I love what she has to say. I almost never agree with her, and that's why I like her so much. But generally of this idea of, like, women are just supposed to be everything. Like, it never ends. Like, you're supposed to be a good mom and be the primary caregiver, but then also have a fancy job and be powerful and successful and really hot and really skinny. And this whole idea that, like, there was body inclusivity, like, there was complete bullshit. Everyone knew it. Like, this idea, it was just really interesting because the runways, I wrote a little thing about, like, there was just, like, a lot of jutting hips because it was just really thin again. And then Vanessa wrote a lot about, like, she just felt like there was a lot on the Runway that was sort of rude to women. I didn't feel that way. That's not how I interpreted those collections. I thought it was more about, like, stuff just happens, and sometimes people just.

[Laura Brown]

Get carried away in a concept, you know? And we've seen that a million times, you know? And it's like. But that's like. You can't really walk in that. But they're like, yeah. Sometimes I don't think I can see both sides of it. I don't necessarily think it's a vast conspiracy I think people get sometimes too indulged, you know, and when. When something comes out, it's like, did you really think around that? You know, or.

[Lauren Sherman]

Or the idea of, like, they're commenting on what's happening in society right now, like, at Margiela. Glenn Martin's.

[Laura Brown]

Yeah, the mouth.

[Lauren Sherman]

The mouth's. Open it. When I wrote about it, I was like, this was the thing that I thought was the best right about the show, like, the show itself. I think he's amazing. I worship him. And I didn't think it was like, yeah, I didn't think the collection was. It wasn't to me was. It wasn't what it should be. But I thought that part of it. I was like, oh, that's such an interesting comment on what's happening right now. Whereas other people really offended by it. But, yeah, it's. It's a fascinating time in that world. I'm so curious to know what you both thought about Chanel, because I know you're both Chanel girls already, but, like, it was such an emotional moment, and I. I'm curious. I've gotten a lot of feedback. I was too nice about Chanel and what's wrong with her.

[Christina O'Neill]

What?

[Laura Brown]

Well, I think that, you know, just to see that joy, I just love. Like, I've. I think I've met. Seen Matthew once in my life. Like, the fact that he worked and worked and worked and was a number two and the number two and the number two and the number two forever. And to see. And what has always come across from him is. Is a lack of cynicism, is a joy in what he makes. Whether it's a funny music choice or a beanbag or, you know, there's always some. Some youthful, like, love there of things. And it's not just like. Like, he's not too cool for himself. And the fact that he was sort of recognized as being the one to do this and then took it and made it more, and you could just feel the. Yeah, sure. I bet some people were probably like, I didn't see enough boucle, and everyone was wearing jeans. Like, I can. I can understand that. But that's a reset, isn't it? Like, sometimes you're going to clean your palette and you kind of put on your charvet shirt with a logo on it and have people ask, where's charvet? And you can tell them, you know, and then show what you're showing and seeing the joy of the last model going out and clipping. You never even see a model really smiling like, that totally proud of the designer who dressed her. You know, I thought there was such a. And this is all on Instagram, but, like, seeing what felt like warmth in that room and seeing a truly modern kickoff to this brand. And I, you know, Christina, are both very lucky to know Carl back in the day and friendly with him and see his. And what he always had more than anyone was a sense of occasion. And Matthew had that as well. So I just thought it was wonderful.

[Christina O'Neill]

Reminded me of an Albert show, right back in the day, there was an Albert show, if you guys remember, where the finale looks were a rainbow of these giant kind of billowing dresses, and there was, like, a wind machine, and these models were coming down the Runway one after each other, and it was this gorgeous. I think it started with a red, and then it went orange, yellow, and it was like. And they came down the Runway, and they were so happy to be on the Runway. And it was probably one of the first standing ovations that I remember in fashion, where the audience was just on their feet. People had tears in their eyes, and they were so moved by it. And this was the first season in a really long time that I had absolute, pure FOMO for not being in Paris. And honestly, like, since I've left WSJ, I haven't had a lot of FOMO about not being in Milan and Paris. But during Ready to Wear, I have been going to couture. But this season, it was just like, one debut after the other that I thought everyone landed the plane. And seeing Matthieu be the sort of, like, capstone on it all, and to be the final one to do that. And when, like, Laura said, when that model came out at the end and was just, you know, the sheer joy on her face just, like, really reminded me of why we do what we do, what this business is really about.

[Laura Brown]

And for people and their talent and.

[Christina O'Neill]

Celebrate it, you know, like, yes, he nailed it. And the clothes are really fucking beautiful. And to be honest, I don't know how I'm gonna afford a single thing, but that's okay.

[Laura Brown]

I was just seeing that the dress on IO at her premiere. That white dress looked so beautiful. And it was the first time I was out in the wild, you know, and it looked gorgeous in.

[Lauren Sherman]

In the line sheet slack, I was, like, having a meltdown. And when they played I don't want to Wait, and I was like, I don't want to wait to figure out if I can afford a Chanel jacket or something. Like, I. I was.

[Narrator/Ad Host]

I.

[Lauren Sherman]

And I do not as you all can imagine, I don't really freak out about clothes that much. Like, I'm like, it's. I love clothes, but I'm, like, measured. And I think that's why the readers were like, why are you being like this? Because usually I'm like, there's all these issues, but I kind like it. This. I was just like, that's the best thing that ever happened.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Laura Brown]

It's a rare and beautiful thing. Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

But, yeah, it was. It was a. It's. It was really special. And I think. I mean, Christina, how lucky are you that you're gonna get to go to the Couture? I just. Like, oh, my God.

[Christina O'Neill]

I know.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's just.

[Christina O'Neill]

I know.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's. It was so nice. And I think the thing I wrote. I did a little item on Monday about sort of the feedback that I got behind the scenes of people who were more constructive, who were, like. And honestly was a lot of Europeans. It was a lot of people being like. Or. Or people who are, like, connected to the vic. World being, like. I didn't see as much individual pieces type thing, but what. And there was also. There was just. It was interesting. Like, I think the fact that everyone freaked out made some of the Europeans, who tend to be. I don't want to say negative, but, like, a little more intransigent. Yes. That's a great word that I would never be able to pull out of my, like, defenestration. But I think they had some good constructive feedback that I understand. And I kind of put it. But what I said in it was like, what I feel like is happening is we got. We flew. Everyone's flying too close to the sun right now.

[Christina O'Neill]

Everyone totally.

[Laura Brown]

The girl bossing too close to the sun.

[Lauren Sherman]

Two girl bossing too close to the sun. I feel like what has actually happened is what Chanel proposed is the dream. And Luca de Mayo, the new, caring CEO, did a town hall meeting on Thursday, and I messaged some people, and they were like, sorry. It was. He is really good.

[Ad Host]

Like.

[Lauren Sherman]

Like, I don't have anything bad to say.

[Laura Brown]

Nothing to say.

[Lauren Sherman]

But what. What he said, which was interesting, was he was like, the Runway needs to be 20% of the business, and everything else is 80%. And I think what happened is that the Runway became so commercial, which is totally fine. Like, that's still gonna exist. People are gonna buy the stuff that was on the Chanel Runway or the Dior Runway, but it became. I think the business became too obsessed with what was sellable. And then, because there wasn't any dream. The sellable stuff became boring, it became commodity. And I think what Chanel did was look like that was all quote unquote wearable or whatever. But it did feel like a fantasy. And I thought back to Matthieu's last Bottega show, which for me was like so emotionally powerful and wasn't I'm not gonna buy anything from that collection. But it was felt something. And I think what the industry is sort of realizing is the reason, the reason European fashion has been so successful is because the executives who have run it have always been focused on creativity and have understood you gu to put in to get a better return on the end.

[Laura Brown]

Yep.

[Lauren Sherman]

And I think that they lost sight of that because of the tremendous growth like almost like the DTC brands in America. And so I am the reason I was excited by Chanel was like, oh, okay, now I see a path forward for this industry. Whereas like, honestly even I, I loved a lot of the debuts and, and.

[Laura Brown]

You'Ve got to have feeling. You've got to have feeling at the end of the day, you know, Matthew has that. Pierpaola's always had that, you know what I mean? And there's, you know, Peter has that, you know, in a stricter way, but still has that. You've got to have that little gaspy moment otherwise you don't have anything, you know what I mean? Your cell through can be whatever and look and I think I'm sure for all of you I sees at Chanel there'll still be a boucle jacket there for them, if you know what I mean, if they need it. But just to be reconceived for a second and have that reconception just be embraced and have that cynicism just drop to the floor just for a second is such a relief.

[Ad Host]

Fun fact. You can't get pregnant every day. You're only fertile for six days. Ovulation day in the five days leading up to it. Natural Cycles is the only birth control app that can pinpoint your fertile window by analyzing your hormone driven temperature trends. It's more than just a basic cycle tracking app. Natural Cycles is the only FDA cleared and CE marked birth control app and has helped millions prevent and plan for pregnancy naturally. Save 15% when you sign up today with code RADIO15. Learn more@natural cycles.com Just got a new puppy or kitten.

[Somsation Wine Host]

Congrats.

[Lemonade Pet Insurance Host]

But also yikes. Between crates, beds, toys, treats and those first few vet visits, you've probably already dropped a small fortune. Which is where lemonade Pet Insurance comes in. It helps cover vet costs so you can focus on what's best for your new pet. The coverage is customizable, sign up is quick and easy, and your clip claims are handled in as little as three seconds. Lemonade offers a package specifically for puppies and kittens. Get a'llemonade.com pet your future self will thank you. Your pet won't. They don't know what insurance is.

[Lauren Sherman]

So I wanted to talk about another designer who brings us a lot of joy in many ways. Victoria Beckham.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yes.

[Lauren Sherman]

Have you all checked out the Netflix doc? I. I am going to be honest. I fell asleep, not because it was boring, but because I fell asleep on the couch every night. My husband was like, are you anemic?

[Laura Brown]

Anemic?

[Lauren Sherman]

Anemic. Are you. My husband was like, are you anemic? I was like, no, I'm just tired.

[Laura Brown]

Post Fashion Month, Christina's seen one. I've seen a bit of one. But we've both known Victoria.

[Christina O'Neill]

I'm one episode in. I'm enjoying it. But our family are die hard Beckham fans. My other half is a manu nut. And now our son is, you know, a Beckham boy. So we have. We thoroughly enjoy David's documentary and I'm one episode into VB's.

[Laura Brown]

And we've known her forever. I mean, we've known her because we used to see. Cause Glenda was friendly with her when we worked for Glenda at Bazaar. So we've done. We've done covers with her. I used to, like, I started with Rollin Maraista during this restaurant.

[Christina O'Neill]

Laura was hardcore. Early days, zip up the back. Laura wore those dresses to the heels.

[Lauren Sherman]

Like, I see it, I see it then.

[Laura Brown]

So we knew. So we would, like, we did covers with her. I remember once she styled a cover for Katie Holmes that I worked on. So we got to know each other really very well.

[Christina O'Neill]

We shot her with Peter Lindbergh, with Richardson. We did couture stories with her. We've known her for a really long time.

[Laura Brown]

Through the first show she did when she was like, she would sort of narrate, you know, when the looks would come out at the Waldorf. Yeah.

[Christina O'Neill]

And it was in a private room at the Waldorf. We were like the second people in.

[Laura Brown]

Yeah. And she just freaking, you know, obviously she came from money. She was all set up in one sphere. But she started at the bottom and she was like, I love this. And I'm gonna show everyone I love this. And she battled through. I mean, I did something with her a couple of months ago with amex. I did a talk with her in. And. And, you know. You know, we see each other every now and again and do something like that, you know, and talking about a business and the beauty business, that's so huge. And, you know, and I was. I was just saying to her, you should be so. Because I don't think women say this enough, but I said to her, like, you should be so proud of yourself because you really pushed on when all the naysayers and your business was challenged and da, da, da, da, da. She freaking worked.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Laura Brown]

Now it's coming good. And she has, again, ownership. Ownership of all of those things that I think in fashion, sometimes when you want to fit in, you don't admit to as much. And she even says, like, she, you know, wasn't smiling, and she was, you know, sometimes in the early days in fashion, you all want to fit some sort of archetype, don't you? Until you kind of square your shoulders and just go, no, I'm me. And that's the beauty of, I think, who she is now, what certainly what this documentary is saying.

[Narrator/Ad Host]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

I think she. Anything I've ever heard about that business is that she's a really nice person. And that, I mean, again, like, high standards for women. But that's really hard. Most women, I mean, you both actually are thought of by your employees as nice. Also. Most women, that does not. Does not happen. And I think she seems like a good, nice person. And so this industry can do it.

[Laura Brown]

To people, I think, and if they let it.

[Lauren Sherman]

And also, I got through the first episode and a half. One thing I'm trying to figure out is there's a scene when Mark Holgate goes for a preview, and they're talking about a fashion critic coming, and that she's really mean. I need to figure out if it's Kathy or Vanessa. I think it was Kathy because I think it's a season. I remember going to the show and Kathy being there, and I'm like, are you gonna go backstage? And she was like, no.

[Laura Brown]

But unambiguous.

[Lauren Sherman]

Unambiguous, but also, Vanessa's not. I wouldn't refer to her as mean personally, but anyway, whatever. Cathy's just honest.

[Laura Brown]

But that. And if a designer gets a bad review, of course they're gonna think, you know, I mean, if that' there's no gonna be, oh, I like my collection. Give me a hug, you know?

[Christina O'Neill]

Yes.

[Lauren Sherman]

But the thing I would say about this documentary, I obviously, the Beckham one was so powerful and so good. So far, and I will finish it. I think it's good. And I just really like her. And I want her gray T shirt. I messaged one of her comms people, and I was like, please, the Beckham.

[Christina O'Neill]

And I texted you, Lauren. And I was like, can you please get on this and figure out what the sweatshirt is?

[Lauren Sherman]

It is driving me crazy, this T shirt she's wearing. I messaged one of her. I was like, you need to find out for us. And. And she said, well, I'm sure it's just the. The brand. I'm like, it's not available, and they need to reissue it because I'm already getting messages.

[Christina O'Neill]

This is my only criticism of both the victoriabuckham.com Victoria's outfits.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Christina O'Neill]

My outfit. The gray suit, the white suit, like you saw.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes.

[Christina O'Neill]

We're only on episode three. VB you guys can fix this.

[Lauren Sherman]

Exactly. The VB team, you need to get on this. We need the T shirt. We need the gray suit. We need that red shirt and red top that she wears in the second episode when she talks.

[Laura Brown]

We can just hover a QR code over her somewhere.

[Lauren Sherman]

You know that, Laura, I bet you had to deal with this at InStyle, but when I worked at Lucky, they were obsessed with that kind of stuff, like QR code, Shop, the magazine. I was like, no one's gonna do this.

[Laura Brown]

Remember those stickers?

[Christina O'Neill]

I love the Lucky stickers.

[Lauren Sherman]

Stickers are so good. Okay. Final thing on VB is do you all wear the makeup?

[Laura Brown]

Yes.

[Christina O'Neill]

So I'm so into the eyeliners. The skincare stuff with Augustini is amazing.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's really good.

[Christina O'Neill]

The.

[Lauren Sherman]

What a recommendation I got from my friend Amanda Dobbins, who is also a bit big VB and really needs to know the credit on this gray T shirt is she said there's some, like, brightening liner.

[Christina O'Neill]

That's the white one.

[Laura Brown]

That. It's a white one.

[Christina O'Neill]

Debating in the video, in the doc.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes.

[Laura Brown]

She said it's amazing.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna. I'm gonna get it.

[Narrator/Ad Host]

It's good.

[Lauren Sherman]

Ladies. I feel I. I think there was one other thing I wanted to ask you about, but I already took up too much of your time. But I'm so. I'm so. I don't wanna say I'm proud of you. Cause that seems like a little bit.

[Laura Brown]

Say it. Thanks.

[Lauren Sherman]

A little patronizing, but I'm over that.

[Laura Brown]

I love hearing.

[Lauren Sherman]

I just really admire. I would say I really admire both of you. I think if I was. If I had grown up with you guys I would be proud of you. I think it's more that I really. I've always admired you and I really admire how you have done this next phase. And I'm excited for this book to be let into the world. I think that you have maybe beat Mark Ronson in the promo, but I. That's the sort of battle.

[Laura Brown]

Thanks to Oprah Winfrey's team, who are amazing. Bang. That's amazing.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, it's well deserved. Congratulations. I would love to have you both on again to chat. It's always great. Yeah, it's really fun.

[Laura Brown]

Thank you so much for. For all of it. And I know what you mean. What you. You know how it feels to be about to publish a book that you wrote. And there is pride in all the way around. So. And I will absolutely take it from you. Thank you so much.

[Lauren Sherman]

Love, of course. Congrats and good luck this next week. And I'll see you guys next week. Thank you. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kennedy Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.