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- [00:00]
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- [01:04]
Lorraine
Hello and welcome to Fashion People.
- [01:07]
Lauren Sherman
I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet and today with me on the show is public.
- [01:13]
Lorraine
Relations extraordinaire Lucien Pages, getting into everything.
- [01:18]
Lauren Sherman
From his experience interning in the Yves St. Laurent studio in the 1990s to.
- [01:24]
Lorraine
His experience building a place, PR agency and plenty more. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world, and much more. If you're interested listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go to Puck News Fashion People to join Puck or start a free trial.
- [02:14]
Lauren Sherman
Happy Friday everyone. A rare time when I am recording this. Also on Friday, very, very early in the morning. It's been a busy week here in Milan. Arrived on Wednesday night from London and I hit the ground running on Thursday morning. Did Max Mara, Prada, Porio, Armani, MM6. Very interesting. All the MM6 models were sort of looking you in the eye, but they had glasses on so not too much eye contact. I went to a Kate dinner at the Portrait Milano with the store Antonia I met with friends. I'd say that Prada is always the defining moment, and today was no different. Backstage, Micah Prada, Raf Simmons talked about making real clothes for real life. They didn't want it to feel too conceptual. And I would say that it did feel. The collection felt very much like what people wear during the day, just, you.
- [03:10]
Lorraine
Know, their version of that.
- [03:13]
Lauren Sherman
So, as always, the clothes did make.
- [03:14]
Lorraine
You think they might not have been.
- [03:16]
Lauren Sherman
As conceptual or too conceptual, but they did make you think. I'd say that watching the show, at first, it left me a little cold. But that's the thing about a Prada show. You just can't stop thinking about it. And the more you think about it, usually the more you like it. And even if you don't like it, you still can't stop thinking about it.
- [03:35]
Lorraine
I actually did end up really, really liking it.
- [03:38]
Lauren Sherman
And sure, I'll buy one or two things, because that's the point of this. That's what fashion is, wanting things. The big topics this week, though, were Luke and Lucy Meyer. A lot of musical chair stuff. Luke and Lucy Meyer leaving Jill Sander was their last show. Also sounds like the new Gucci designer is going to be announced sooner than later. Also, everyone loved Sylvia Venturini Fendi's women's wear. At the 100 anniversary show on Wednesday, there's a Sylvia rally. They need a womenswear designer. She only designs men's. Everyone thought she was gonna retire after the 100th anniversary. Now everybody wants her to have both. We'll see. I mean, she's. She's like, in her mid-60s. A lot of designers work till they're in their 90s, so it's possible. This week on Line Sheet, you'll find more Milan intel, more Sax, Global intel, more LVMH Intel. Plus a really fab story from Rachel Strugouts about how Carolina Rare's fragrance Good Girl became the number one fragrance franchise in the world, beating Chanel. Yes, it's crazy, but it's possible. Rachel has the details. I am here in Milan for a couple more days for some more shows. There's Versace, there's Bally. We're so excited about Bali. Then there's a Bottega party with Patti Smith. Then there's more Armani on Sunday and Dolce, and it'll be fun. And then I'm off to Paris on Monday. So more to come.
- [05:11]
Lorraine
Let's get started with Lucien. Lucien Pages. Welcome to Fashion People.
- [05:18]
Lucien Pages
Thank you Lorraine, I'm super happy to do this with you and very honored.
- [05:22]
Lorraine
I'm very honored that you said yes. You know that I think many PR people are going to be jealous that you were the first major PR person on fashion people. But I just want to tell them there was a news peg so they can all be on someday as well.
- [05:38]
Lucien Pages
Of course. Of course. And I feel super privileged to be the first one. And thank you for this opportunity.
- [05:46]
Lorraine
I'm very excited to chat with you about what you had for breakfast this morning.
- [05:50]
Lucien Pages
What I had for breakfast this morning? Yes.
- [05:52]
Lorraine
Tell me.
- [05:53]
Lucien Pages
A latte from Starbucks. Just a big latte. A venti latte. It's from Starbucks. I don't take breakfast.
- [06:04]
Lorraine
Doesn't sound very French to me.
- [06:07]
Lucien Pages
Yes. No, it's just because I had a meeting very early on, so I just order a latte and I left my house with it. It was convenient.
- [06:17]
Lorraine
So there's a Starbucks near you? Not to reveal your location, but there.
- [06:22]
Lucien Pages
Is actually there is a Starbucks in front of my house and there is Starbucks downstairs the office. So I have two possibilities. Yeah, there is more and more in Paris.
- [06:35]
Lorraine
What do you think about that? I mean, you obviously are a patron, but does it bother you that they're around or do you.
- [06:42]
Lucien Pages
No, because, you know, I'm not a very, like, European person when it comes to coffee. I have very American taste. I love long filtered coffee. I love, like, I'm not like someone that love ristretto double espresso. Like, I really, I'm. I have a very American taste for coffee.
- [07:03]
Lorraine
Okay. I'm glad that you're well hydrated. I guess it's later in the afternoon your time. So how did you. You say you. You don't have very European taste for coffee. Where did you grow up and what was your European childhood like?
- [07:23]
Lucien Pages
I grew up in south of France, in the montane, in a very remote space. It's in the place of an area called Les Vennes, where there is a national park. So it's very like green and there is mountain, there is rivers. It's very, like, wild. It look like big Corsica, but there is not the sea. It's really like in the mountain. And it's nearby Montpellier or Nimes. So not next. When you say to foreigners, oh, I grew up in south of France. They always think that it's like Saint Tropez or Nice or Biarritz or Marseille maybe. But me, it's really like, not very known, except that recently Timothy Chalamet spoke about Le Sevan in an Interview. So I was really proud. I don't know how. Because he's all French, I think, so that's why. Maybe he knows this place. But Normally nobody caught Le7.
- [08:23]
Lorraine
What was it like? What kind of. Is it mountains? Is it. It's not beach?
- [08:29]
Lucien Pages
No, no. It's really mountainous. Like there is a. It's very remote. Like there is nothing like it's small village where there is one. I was raised in a village where there was 400 citizen, you know, and most of them live around the village, even not in the village. They have like, it's. It's. It's a place for former like people from the 60s that decided to live remotely, you know, a bit EP style. And they came to. They. They came to this place to do goat cheese or honey or raised donkey. It's really like the mood.
- [09:12]
Lorraine
I get it. So it's like upstate New York.
- [09:14]
Lucien Pages
Yeah, a bit.
- [09:17]
Lorraine
So how. How did you develop an interest in fashion living there? Is it just so deeply embedded in French culture?
- [09:25]
Lucien Pages
No, I don't think. I think I was like, I. I always wanted to work in fashion and I don't know why, because my parents were not connected to the fashion at all. My mom was not interested into fashion. Like, it's not that I. You know, like sometimes you have people who tell you, oh, my mom love to love fashion. And that was not the case. My parents were really hard worker. They were working in a. They were having their own restaurant and hotel that belonged to my grandparents before. So we were more into the. To the. To hospitality and gastronomy field. And it's funny because one day I took a plane with someone that I didn't know and she was sitting next to me and we were discussing about our life and I told her about my childhood into a restaurant and then walking into fashion. And she said, oh, that's the two most exciting or biggest thing for France. It's funny that you had those both things in your life. And I never noticed that in fact. But it's so. It's make my story very French in that way that I was born and raised in a restaurant, in a hotel. My father was a chef, was a sommelier, and then I wanted to work in fashion. So I had this kind of a duality of like French lifestyle and taste about what French has to offer for the best. But there was no really like, it came to my mind, like really like spontaneous, organically. Like I was obsessed with fashion. I was like buying magazine in my village and because there was like they were selling Magazine like Madame Figaro, Elle or Vogue or. And I was buying them and I was seeing like the fashion show on TV because, you know, it's France seeing.
- [11:22]
Lorraine
Tim Blanks at all or did he not get over to France?
- [11:29]
Lucien Pages
Not yet, not yet. But I was also, you know, it's as it's friends, the fashion show were on tv, on the news, you know, but not full, but like five minutes at the end of the show of the, of the, of the news. Every day during Fashion Week, they were showing you the collection from Paris. So there was like Chanel and Saint Laurent and Dior. Only the big name, of course, because he has to speak to the, to the, to the broader audience. And I was dreaming about living in Paris and touching that world and voila. But it's also, we have to consider that I born in 1975, so when I started to love fashion was more the 80s, end of the 80s and there was no like Internet, there was no application, there was no Instagram, there was no social media. So our two sources of information were TV and magazine. Very old school.
- [12:32]
Lorraine
Do you feel like you're very. Not smack dab, you're kind of at the end of Gen X actually. But growing up and being interested in those brands and seeing what was coming in culture wise from the US and at that time and the UK was I feel like in the 90s, like anglophilia was really big and even in the fashion industry as well. Did you have a sense of this idea of selling out and like as, as a part of that generation and having to be on the edge in some, in some way or did you not think about it like that?
- [13:11]
Lucien Pages
But in fact everything changed when, because I came to Paris in 1993 so to study at the Champsinteciale de l'haute Haute Couture. And so I discovered the world a bit, you know, and I discovered also MTV and all. I don't know if it was already mtv but you know, or later on, like there was, there was a lot of information, you know, the fashion is an open door to the world, you know, because when you study fashion, of course you go in nightclub or you go to see the, the movie or you know, so the culture of the 90s is very present in my life because it's where I discovered the world. So all those 90s movie from Gus Vincent or this music from the, from mtv, they are really, really present in my culture, of course, because it was the, the. It, it was what we, it was what going on. And we were young, you know, so I arrived in Paris. I was 18. So the world was really opening and we were having access to many more information.
- [14:29]
Lorraine
I remember when I was a teenager in the 90s, hearing about people in Europe being obsessed with Levi's. Was this a thing like, because you couldn't get them as. As easily back then or something? Or is. Or is this. Was this like a weird thing that I was hearing in the suburbs of America? That was total bullshit.
- [14:53]
Lucien Pages
No, we were obsessed with Levi's. But we have access to Levi's. Like, it was.
- [14:58]
Lorraine
I just remember like thinking people were like, smuggling. Maybe it was only to Russia, but like, I also remember specifically thinking of like, cool young French people wearing Levi's. I went to Paris for the first time, I think in 1996, and just thinking that they were like, really into Levi's and Converse and things like that.
- [15:22]
Lucien Pages
No, but we were obsessed with America. You know, we were totally obsessed with the American style, America way of life. I remember the first things I bought when I done my internship at St. Laurent. I work with Monsieur Saint Laurent at the internship. And they were really like a social company. You know, they were doing. For the intern. They were doing. You like a real salary? Low, of course, but yeah, yeah, my first fished. I don't know, like file of salary, like is. It was from Yves Saint Laurent and I went to. To Ralph Florent to buy the American flag sweater in. In. In dark green. That was the first things I bought with my own money. So it says a lot about like it was 1994, something like that. And. And. And there was. We know we were kind of obsessed also. Everything, the pop culture, everything was coming from like, us or London. You know, the pop culture is not French. So of course, when you are young, you are into pop culture. So.
- [16:34]
Lorraine
Well, now it is with Le Bureau de Legion.
- [16:38]
Lucien Pages
Yeah, that's good.
- [16:43]
Lorraine
You know, I interviewed Virginie Montel. Do you know her?
- [16:47]
Lucien Pages
No, not personally.
- [16:49]
Lorraine
And she was telling me because she did Emilia Perez and she was telling me about, like, she worked with the guy who's the. The. The star of Le Bureau de Legion and has been is Matthieu Kasowitz. Yes, Matthieu Kassowitz, and is also a filmmaker. And she was telling me how they all. She like, is the costume designer for all these young or used to be young and now like in. In their prime filmmakers. But I kept calling it Laburo and every time I would. She would say delays on at the end to correct me is. It was very funny. But anyway, so that's really Interesting that it was cool to like America at that time in.
- [17:36]
Lucien Pages
Absolutely. Also it was like Michael Jackson, Madonna, Prince. I mean, we were like, people were dressing like Madonna or, you know, like, you know, I still have on me like a bracelet. Like, you know, this bracelet that in Kauchu, it is Maripole that we are doing them for Madonna.
- [17:59]
Lorraine
Yes.
- [17:59]
Lucien Pages
And you know, and Madonna has like hundreds of them of this scout bracelet. And. And I wear it because it's remind me that time where we were. We were. We were so into Madonna that we wanted the same thing of her. Even the boys, you know, me had those bracelet. My friend had those bracelets because super cool to have the bracelet. But we did a new Maripole. I discovered Maripole late, much later, after, because it was for me the bracelet of Madonna, you know, and we were working wearing that.
- [18:34]
Lorraine
Yeah. So what. What was Saint Laurent? What was Yves Saint Laurent like? What. What was it amazing that you. You worked with him direct. Was it a very mom and pop operation? Like, very close? Everyone was very close.
- [18:51]
Lucien Pages
No, no, it was really like the haute couture with all its rule and hierarchy. And I was lucky to be allowed to be in the studio. But I was not talking to Monsieur Saint Laurent. You know, there was an invisible barrier, like. And we were not so many. We are less than 10 in that studio. But I was an intern, the only intern. And. And I only spoke about with Monsieur Saint about the dogs. Like that was the only point of entrance for discussion with him from my place. But I didn't really care, you know, because I had nothing to do. Mr. St. Laurent was Mr. St. Laurent, you know, like, why he would care about an intern, you know, like, I mean, everything has its place. It was the couture really, like the old school couture where everyone has a place and has to stay in his place. And of course, when you say that today, it looked like a bit like scary, but that was the way it was built. Couture house with lot of hierarchy. And it was kind of difficult because Mr. Was not feeling so well at that time in the 90s, you know, he was going back and forth into hospital and like, that was not his best moment. But it was amazing to see him draping or design. He was drawing every single model of the collection. Like, it was not like there was a studio, but the studio was just there to execute. It was. Nobody was drawing the haute couture. He was with his pencil and doing. Yes, his favorite pencil on the desk is. So it was really amazing. And I was lucky because I was a huge fan of San Juan. And I really like tried to get there. And I succeed to get there to do this, those internship. And I was lucky. But also I knew that I was looking. I was watching the end of an era. And that nothing will be the same anymore. Because even the fashion show, even the way everything was done was very particular. The model in the cabin, like there was model that were living almost at Saint Laurent available from when Monsieur Saint Laurent was arriving. It was like a bean. And they were going upstairs to do the fitting. But there was a life. Like there was life in the capille, life in the salon Vaud couture for the client, the life. There was a canteen. Everybody's nostalgic about the canteen. Now it's in the same building, Avenue Marceau, where they keep all the clothes. Like into those amazing. Like you call safe. Like with the exact archive, exact temperature and stuff like that. But that was. That used to be la canteen where we were all going. Everybody was mixed. There was Lulu La Falez, sometimes La Cantine, you know, with the little tray. And that was kind of funny. It was really the house of the life of a couture house.
- [21:49]
Lorraine
Do you think he was the greatest fashion designer to ever live in the same way that Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player. Even though I guess LeBron James or whoever. I don't follow it as closely as I used to. Would be. Is probably technically better. But do you think Saint Laurent, when you look at the history of fashion that, you know, do you think he was the best ever?
- [22:10]
Lucien Pages
In my taste, yes. But after fashion is a question of taste. But I think he. If we go out of my taste or your taste or the taste, you can think that he gave the. The. The. The grander to this name of grand Couturier. Like when you think grand Couturier, you think probably Balenciaga. If Saint Laurent, Mademoiselle Chanel, Christian Dior, like, it's very limited. But Saint Laurent was the one that really like, I think penetrate the. The. The culture. Because Catherine Deneuve. Because so many movie where he done the costume. Because the fact that he was the first one to be. To have his exhibition alive, you know, like the Met exhibition when he was still quite young. And that was the genius of Pierre Berger. Because Pierre Berger saw Monsieur Saint Laurent and he saw that if I knew, of course they were together but. Or no more together, but they were like very, very close. He saw that he was declining and also he was like. So he decided to create the meat and create a living legend. That was a very, like, strategic movement from Mr. Berger to create the legend while Yvesen was still alive. And that protected the house.
- [23:28]
Lorraine
Yeah, it's interesting. You. We always talk about Chanel and as a sort of playbook or a map of how companies work today. But in so many ways, the thing that I think is remarkable about Saint Laurent is the contribution over so many decades. There was. They did it. I'm sure it was a traveling exhibit, but I saw an exhibit probably 10 years ago at the de Young Museum in San Francisco, and I was just sort of amazed by how much he had done. And, yes, there are dresses that we know and specific silhouettes that we attribute to him, but it was just so many contributions over, what, four or five decades. And so many of those designers of that generation only worked for, you know, 10 years or 20 years or shorter stints. That. And. And it's more concentrated. But it's. I feel like in some ways, what he did is. Has been diffused because it was so everywhere. But it's an interesting point about Pierre Berger. There's a great little story that Cathy Horne wrote when Pierre Berger died that it's probably only 400 words, maybe less, just about her relationship with him and also how he operated and how that changed the fashion industry so much. That's. It's amazing that that was your first job.
- [24:55]
Lucien Pages
Yeah, yeah. No, no. And. And it's. It's. It's. It's great what you are saying about. Because about the decades. And he brings so much to fashion from, like, the. The. The. The craziness of the haute couture, the inspiration of the heart, the inspiration of the. From the. The. The. The continent, from the love of the woman, the menswear, women swear. Like, of course, the smoking, the cap, the picot, blah, blah, blah. Like, it's a. It's like. It was real and totally surreal. There was both sides. At Saint Laurent, there is an image, There is something that you can wear today. Totally like Saint Laurent, Rave Gauche. And many women collect those pieces and wear them. And there was the haute couture that was totally inaccessible, but not only about the price. About, like. Like this idea of the woman, the Saint woman, that is, like, inaccessible somehow. She's too beautiful, too chic, too elegant. And I think it's something that Anthony has really well nailed into his work at Saint Laurent is the grandeur of the St. Laurent woman. She's always, like, so. I don't know, elegant, but in a way that, like, nothing can touch her. I don't know, like she's.
- [26:23]
Lorraine
Yeah. I also think the thing about French fashion and the way the French approach fashion and dressing is that it is even if you're not super interested in fashion or you're not an enthusiastic, it's a part of your life and you're supposed to care about the way you look. It's not shameful to care about the way you look or in that way. And I think what he is proposing is the things I've bought from him are a black blouse, slingbacks, because it's exactly right. And it's things that are really elegant. And he sort of is giving women permission to care about those things, which in this time, you know, especially living in America where prioritizing those types of things is sometimes not okay because, you know, everybody's wearing Vuori or whatever. But it's an interesting thing of how he has like. No. Never going to go back to dressing up. But I think what he has done is make it feel good to want to dress up and take care of yourself and all of that.
- [27:42]
Lucien Pages
Yeah. And. And also to assume this, this grand feminity. Like to be, you know, a St. Laurent woman. She, when she. I always think about that like when she enter into a restaurant or something or somewhere else, you notice her. She's special. And that was very much a center as well.
- [28:03]
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- [28:35]
Lorraine
So your insights into this, I think explain how you ended up going into publicity and communications and storytelling. And so you wanted to be a fashion designer and at some point you moved into comms. How did that transition happen? And when did you realize that you were more interested in that side of, of the business?
- [28:58]
Lucien Pages
So I done all my studies for. To become a fashion designer. I know how to draw, I know how to sew. But of course, of course I forget a bit. But it was my dream to become a fashion designer. And then when, when I done those internship and everything, I think it showed me a way that I. I won't. Maybe I was too impressed. Maybe I don't too big internship, I don't know. But I had the feeling that I will never become the new Saint Laurent. And so I was less interested into design because I didn't want to be like a normal designer sitting in a studio like, you know, because I came all the way up from the south of France, from my mountain, and I wanted to be in fashion. I wanted to live in Paris, but I wanted to succeed as well. Like, I had the kind of ambition in me. And so when I realized that I could be not the best designer in the world, I switch. And so after I just done different experience, I worked for magazine. I worked for Marcus Collie, an artistic director doing five years and a half. More into. In the communication, but more into the image making. And then I opened my office 18 years ago. But I never dreamed to be a fashion pr. You know, it was. And it was like, I never think it was a job. I never. Because I didn't know, you know, I was seeing PR in my. @ Saint Laurent, at different house. I. But I didn't care so much about that job, you know, like it was for me, it was a parallel job that was just serving the machine. You know, I was not like, impress.
- [30:46]
Lorraine
Yeah. Who was your first client and why did you. Did you sort of fall into representing someone or did you at that point when you started your business, did you think, I want to do this? And why?
- [31:00]
Lucien Pages
No, in fact, it's really like. And it's what I always say about, like to young people, you have to follow the opportunity. You have to leave the door open. I really was like that. Like I saw the first time, like I was like the first person that spoke to me about that job for me was Vincent Dare. He said, oh, you should be a pr. You could be a great pr. And I was okay. You know, like, I never think about it.
- [31:26]
Lorraine
Who was he?
- [31:27]
Lucien Pages
Vincent Dari is. He was. He now is a. Is a designer. He's an interior designer. Create furniture. He decorated apartment. But that. That time he was fashion designer. He done Moschino during years and he them he was named at Emmanuel Ungaro Valley. And after he opened his interior design company. And he was one of my first client, by the way. But the first client was Adam Kimmel.
- [31:57]
Lorraine
The menswear love Adam Kimmel. He's so great.
- [32:01]
Lucien Pages
Everybody has a. I saw him yesterday night.
- [32:05]
Bumble
Oh, wow.
- [32:06]
Lucien Pages
Yeah. He was in Paris and we had dinner together. Like it's always good to. To see him.
- [32:12]
Lorraine
And I thought he was so talented and cool and I. I just really liked him a lot.
- [32:20]
Lucien Pages
Yeah. And he was really in advance with like the mix of art and fashion. His lookbook is also. In fact, if you look at his collection, they were. They are so relevant because this low key luxury is not so far from what the row is doing right now. You know, if you go into the collection of Adam, you can feel that vibe of like this super cool low key luxury. The connection to art, to culture, the old. There was something very in advance. And so he was my first client and he wanted to be in Paris. He was very smart. So he knew that as an American designer he needed to be in Paris and not in New York because he needed to operate to be not too tag as New Yorker and not to, I don't know, in the box of a New York fashion. And so he was showing with the support of Colette, for example. That was one of his. The first person that both Adam Kimmel, he was showing in Paris. We were renting space only for his market. And then I was inviting few friends to come. And then in a nice way, friendly way. And then we decided that we could open an office together where he can have his showroom. I was representing him in Europe and the rest of the time when he was not there, I was doing my own things like representing Vincent D'Arreo, Lampier Le Tan. And I started like that with Adam and friends around me that were creatives. So there was no really an agenda. It was like that. It happened to me. Vincent Darre opened the, launched the ide and then Adam Kimmel came with the project and then it was launched. You know, it was always like that.
- [34:25]
Lorraine
I associate you with apc. I think that's the first place I saw you at an APC presentation. And then I remember seeing you. Is it possible that you were at Pearl with your friends, like all having drinks or something? This would probably be like 15 years ago at where Pearl is. The P E R L E. That. That one. Would you have been hanging out there?
- [34:49]
Lucien Pages
No, I don't think.
- [34:51]
Lorraine
What's the. In the Marais, on the corner.
- [34:56]
Lucien Pages
La Perle, La Pearl?
- [34:57]
Lorraine
Yeah. Would you have been hanging out there? I just remember you were very intimidating. I was like, I mean before I knew you, you were the PR running around. And I was like, this is the cool PR person.
- [35:17]
Lucien Pages
Thank you. I never saw myself as intimidating. I was, I don't know, like, no, you're not.
- [35:23]
Lorraine
But do you know, like I was young at the APC presentation, my husband is there asking Jean Tuitu why his iPhone doesn't fit in his jeans. And John Tuitu said to My husband. I'm not a nerd. That's why.
- [35:41]
Lucien Pages
That's very Jean and. No, no, it's APC is very me in a way. Like. So it's normal you associate me to. Because there is a kind of like a very French things in apc, but also very open to the world, you know, like. And this kind of minimal style, like navy blue sweater and jeans is the way I address myself. So there is a natural connection between APC and me. And I always love what Jean and Judith done there and how they elevate everything. Jean was the first one to put like olive oil in the store and the music, the disc, you can buy disc there and magazine. And it was always a cultural platform with good clothes. And this is very. What I deeply love, you know, like for myself.
- [36:41]
Lorraine
As you were building out your PR practice, how did you approach it? Especially given that it wasn't. It sort of. You didn't come up in that world. How did you build it out in terms of who you hired and your approach to comms and storytelling and. And strategy? What was. What was sort of your intention?
- [37:09]
Lucien Pages
Hello. I. As I was. When I started, I even didn't have like any list of press. I was. I had my friend in press, you know, like, because I was living in Paris and I have friends in press as I had friends in, I don't know, other field. But I didn't have any lease, I didn't have any trick. I didn't have any. So I think it's what. What really helped me. It's that I was totally novice new in that business and I just done it with my. My natural instinct and my brain. So when I was. I was like. Because I didn't have the connection, I was thinking I can convince people with my. My. My brain. Like with. When something is good, you tell to people it's good. I explain why. I remember when I introduced Sakai for the first time to people. I was not that big PR when I got Sakai. I started to work with her in 2009 and nobody knew Sakai outside of Japan at that time. Even though she had a good strong business. She was selling in Bergdorf, in Barney's and everything. But she was not known. The awareness of the name was not raised. So. So I remember when I introduced Sakai to the people. I remember that I used my brain. I was thinking, what if I was a journalist? What should I say about Sakai to give me the desire to come to see this presentation? Because at the beginning I was really in the need of just making people come to discover the work. I knew when they discovered Sakai they would love it. I was convinced. But my narrative was really based on if I was this journalist, what I would want to hear, to be excited to come. And I always use that thing like I wanted to compensate my lack of connection with a convincing part of saying interesting thing about the brand. So it's kind of basic what I'm saying. But it was really useful because I never lied to people. I never. That's why I'm very. I was always. And I'm still very picky with the brand I represent because I want to be proud when I call you and I tell you, Lauren, you have to come to see that you will trust me because I never lied to you. And that was very my vision about this PR job. I want. And sometimes you need to do things that are maybe a bit more for money or what, you know, because we all need. It's. It's a machine, you know, have a lot of stuff. And, and even when I didn't have a lot of stuff at. It was even more difficult because each client was important. And my really my. My vision was to. To build a company with. And making money as well, but with things we are proud of. All my brand are very different. You know, it's not that I only have like intellectual brand or crazy eccentric brand. I have that, but also have like more approachable, more affordable brand. But if I have a storytelling, if I have a soul behind, if I can feel that I can tell something about the soul of this brand, then I do it. And that's. That's quite basic. But that. The way I built it, it's this distrust between me and the media and I think my team is doing the same. And, and I think it's a. It's important. And when we need media, maybe sometimes it's more difficult. We have like a collaboration to push that is not so good or maybe is not making so much sense for many reasons, internal reason. You know, sometimes the CMO decide that this collaboration is good or maybe put his friend, you don't know like everything that can happen in our industry, you know, and if you need help, you can ask, but I ask. I said, you know, I need help there, but I don't do that every day. But I think it's based really on trust. And we are partners, all of us. Media, brand, PR communication, everyone is partners and we have to exchange and to be quite transparent.
- [41:31]
Lorraine
Yes, yes. And I think because you do have taste and you are so transparent that if you send an email saying we are really hoping to spread the word about this, it makes people pay attention and want to do it for you. And also open all of your emails because your team is so responsive and so you send a lot of emails. But Jonathan, Sophia responded before Jonathan yesterday. No, I was like, oh, someone is. Someone is racing. But you know, as I appreciate it so much as someone who I love, I try to respond if I don't to the world. If I don't respond immediately, it's not. I try to or I'll kind of forget. So. But I remember that when I went to an Olympia Latan show that you did in a theater.
- [42:28]
Lucien Pages
Yes. With the Rockettes.
- [42:35]
Lorraine
Yeah. And I remember that like thinking and I didn't know you all and thinking these people are so responsive and so fast. It's incredible. It's just such a. And it has helped you build your reputation. A question I have is how has. So when I started, I became a reporter in like 2006, but really started going to fashion shows in 2009, 2010 and going to showrooms, it was much more of a. Like a PR agency, had a big showroom and trafficked a lot of samples because there were way more shoots, at least in America, of products on pages and they were. Now all those magazines will just pull a still from the brand. But they used to individually shoot every. I worked at Lucky magazine for a while and they would individually shoot every single product. So it was much more about sample trafficking. And also the story ideation was different because there wasn't as much imagery on the Internet. So like style.com, i think really only became a huge thing in 2008, 2009, it was around for five years before that, but there was still fashion journalists. A lot of what they were doing was like describing the clothes and things. And now it can't just be that. How has your job changed in terms of like story placement and what media people want?
- [44:09]
Lucien Pages
It's hello. For me it was what happened during the COVID like when people start to say, oh, we won't need showroom anymore, blah, blah, blah. Like I was totally thinking the contrary. Like the showroom for me, the base, like simple trafficking. I always believe in it because we, we. We have clothes, we need to put them on an editorial or we need to put them on a celebrity or we need to put them on an influencer. Whoever it is, they have to pass by the showroom, people pick up the clothes, try them. And I'm actually, I'M actually doing this from our VIP room where the people are trying the clothes because it's the best sound I found in the building. So it's funny, I have a selection of clothes ready for an influencer, I think. And so I always believe in the base of my job. The base of my job is sample traffic connection and then there is new layering and there is new tool. So it's not about like exchanging the old tool or exchanging like what is new by what was there. It's more additionally. So that's why our job is kind of crazy now because we are still working on the old world with the old tool, but we have the new tool. It's not that we switch. There is an evolution, a strong evolution. Of course people read less the papers, but when the papers are published on an application or are republished on Facebook or republished on Instagram or whatever, then people read those paper indirectly. They were printed. But an article of the New Yorker, an article of you talk about Katie Orin or whatever. Like you see now the cut. They're putting the coat of Katie on Instagram. They created square with the coat of Katie. Like of course, the most juicy. And so now the media are also like evolving in a way that they know that probably their article will be more strong, more read on the web or on social media, but still they are existing in print. And me, when I work with big brand, they need to see the print. The CEO love to see four page article, you know, it matters to him. Yeah, maybe us, we will read it on our phone, but he will have him on his desk. So it's a kind of, you know, different, as I said, layering of, of information. And you have to play with all of them and the success is always like the connection between all of them. For when you have a show, you need a good review, you need a good front row, you need amplification of your front row and you need that the celebrity requests you right after the show to be the first one to wear it and then you do another amplification with what the celebrity war. And then you can also republish on your. Me on your. If you like your review, you, you can publish your review and say thank you so much for my beautiful review. You know, it's all. Yes, and, and when it's bad is the other one that reposts. Yes, but, but I mean it's a, it's like a 360 thing, you know, like it's. It's what? And it's based on the creativity and on the collection, if the collection is not good, the collection is good. But sometimes people fight. They think the collection was good, but other things, the collection was not good. And then creating buzz even more, you know what I mean? When people start to argue or that's why it's interesting. Sometimes people think, oh my God, there was a bad review or there was a bad buzz, but at the end it's making so much noise that you win the noise win right now.
- [48:07]
Lorraine
Yeah, I agree with that. And I also think I'm talking to people about controversial collections. It rarely happens anymore where there is a controversy. So when someone cares enough about something to write negatively about it and or just discuss it in the front row, that to me makes. Means that the brand has power.
- [48:33]
Lucien Pages
Yeah, exactly, Exactly. I totally agree. And it's not. But we can say bad publicity is good. Is good publicity or is publicity. Yes, it's true that also we are talking most of the time when there is not big drama, we are talking about clothes. You know what I mean? So who cares? You know, at the end it's a discussion based on clothes. So it's fine, you know, nobody will die. It's all good. Worst case scenario, you don't buy it and nobody can oblige you to buy a collection you didn't like. But it's interesting how people take fashion so seriously.
- [49:20]
eBay
If fashion is your thing, ebay is it. Ebay is where I find all my favorites, from handbags to iconic streetwear. All authenticated for real this time. A little supreme, some Gucci. I even have that vintage Prada on my watch list. That's why ebay is my go to for all my go tos. Yeah, eBay. The place for new pre loved, vintage and rare fashion. EBay, things people love.
- [49:49]
Bumble
We're so done with New Year, New youw. This year it's more you on Bumble. More of you shamelessly sending playlists, especially that one filled with show tunes. More of you finding Geminis because you know you always like them. More of you dating with intention because you know what you want and you know what? We love that for you. Someone else will too be more you this year and find them on Bumble.
- [50:16]
Lorraine
The industry itself has changed so much in the 18 years since you started your business. What is just like media? What is the same and what is different now in the way that these companies operate because you work with everyone from Saint Laurent to Uniqlo and also a lot of tiny designers. And so you are doing. And now you have a business in the Us as well, which is a whole different market. How to you has the industry transformed?
- [50:50]
Lucien Pages
I think there is much more, I would say pressure because of the industry became an industry that is like when you see the success of LVMH or carrying Richemont, this company became so big, so worldwide, so preeminent. So there is a bit of more pressure because there is an economic pressure technically before it was like okay, they were big, but they were not huge. And now they are monumental in all the, in all the country. You know the name of those big brands, you know you can go in well in an island and it happened to me, I went to an island in the Philippines for Christmas and the girl, one girl was wearing Jacquemuse bag and I told her oh, I work for this brand. And she almost cried like. So it was, it was, it's. It's crazy the power of the brand. So I would say that there is much more pressure. There is much more to do because of all this Ferran tool. So now you know my team, they have to work on, get, get the people to the show seated them then do a report, then do a report of social media. Then do you know, it's never like. It's not only there is the before the preparation, the stress before the preparation, the stress bit during the event and after the stress to deliver quickly the result. And so I would say that much pressure, a lot of more work for sure for the team, for me, for everyone involved, for the people in house and because fashion is big and we are not the only one, we are not the only one in fashion to have social media. Everyone like if you work for, I don't know, a car company or whatever, even healthcare or whatever. Everyone is using social media. It's not something proper to fashion but in fashion it's fit us so well. It fit our model so well. You know, the, the social media and also with the, the fact that the, the. The. The. The newspaper or the newspaper are big but maybe the glossy magazine are a bit less important and the social media took the, the power and that's why now those magazines are all their platform on social media are big, you know, and, and it's so, so everything is a bit more hysterical, a bit more fast and, and. But also very exciting because now if you want, if you are a young designer before you needed to pass through different level of validation. You needed like oh, Anna Wintour need to like my collection, then Barney's need to buy my collection. But maybe Anna will call Barney's to Buy my collection and then like this one will like my collection can introduce me to this one. There was a lot of validation level. Now you can go straight to the people. Of course you would love to have Anna and Bergdorf and whatever. That's not the problem. But you can grow direct to people and then maybe Anna will show up.
- [54:22]
Lorraine
Yes.
- [54:23]
Lucien Pages
You know, it's a different way of doing. And there will be people that maybe Ada will find before the other one. Or you know, it's all the en France on the. When you play the card, you know, and you mix them, you know, it's a bit that like now you don't know the recipe. The recipe is no recipe, but there is still button to push that are important. So it's a bit. But it's an amazing moment for a kind of direct democracy in the fashion. Because if your Instagram is amazing, is descriptive, is funny, then you can be noticed by the good people of fashion and they will support you. And look what happened to Becca. Like Becca Stein not come from Georgia. When I met him the first time, uh, it's Clara Corne from Instagram that introduced me. I remember. And he was a fan. He was doing square about me. But I was scared. I was like, who is this guy? Why is talking about me? And now you know? No, and. And then I met him and I. And I found these guys so genuine and his love for fashion was so strong. And so I really help him, like. And I remember when I put him the front the first time on the front row and Louis presence came and told me, oh, you put Steinhardt come on the front row. That's audacious. And I said, why not? It was. But because he was great, you know, and I would not do for everyone. No, but I think he became a media as well. And. And that's the beauty of fashion. Because he was interested. He attracted the attention of the good people. And then he made it. There is a magic in fashion. And what also what I love with Becca, that is stay very positive. Which for me, which for me sometimes people complain, say, oh, he's always loving everything for me. Great. Because I have anxiety with the fashion industry. I have anxiety with any. So I'm really happy that Becca exists and bring a good vibe.
- [56:41]
Lorraine
I agree. As someone who is constantly bringing anxiety to people like you, I. I love him. I think what he has done for me is he is my main source of news in some ways. Like, he is so fast. Of course I subscribe to all the trades and I read them, but he gets the information and he does much more than anyone else. So he reports on every little thing that happens. And on Instagram, where I spend way too much time and it makes it easier when he does a week in review. It's helpful to me. I don't need him to critique a show or give me the behind the scenes of why this thing was a mess. I don't care. I just want the information. And he's very good and smart and sharp about delivering it and I don't think he can be a little too favorable. But generally I think he has a little bit of an edge of that he brings a cleverness to the writing. And I, and I'm a huge fan and I think the like whenever there's backlash on stuff like that, the person just needs to, to kind of live through it and then soon enough he will be. I think of Brian Boy a lot, who started as a live journal blogger who's now a huge authority in the industry. And every time he posts on Instagram I read it because I'm interested in what he said. But it takes people like you to recognize that and Eva Chen at Instagram or Clara at Instagram to recognize someone like Becca and say, okay, this is someone we need to engage with. And, and because it's going to make the industry more fun and, and better known outside of so many people I know follow Becca who don't work in fashion. And that's so valuable.
- [58:42]
Lucien Pages
It's one of the, of the people that now make you win followers. Like when he posts about you, you win followers. And there is no, not so many. And the winning followers is the only currency that matter now. Yes, but no, no, it's, it's, it's, it's what I wanted to say about Beca is also really fact check.
- [59:08]
Lorraine
Yeah.
- [59:09]
Lucien Pages
And that's amazing. There is very few mistake in his post. He fact check. He work a lot. And also it's interesting because digital is supposed to be fast and furious and to say like things as they come and it's doing the. Is fast and furious but also fact check. And that's the key of a good journalism somehow.
- [59:32]
Lorraine
That's very, very true. And it's also. I've never thought about it because it's. But it is. He is incredibly rigorous and you can see that. I'm not shocked that for you to say that he, he checks everything very closely because it, I've never once gone on there and thought, oh, that's not true.
- [59:54]
Lucien Pages
Yeah, no, no, you really do. We exchange a lot you exchange with my team. He asked of course the press release. But after he asked again things. Sometimes I learned things about my brand through him because I have to dig into things like which he had started which change this which is like really like is. Is amazing for that is really taking that seriously. And people should pay tribute to that because it's time.
- [60:23]
Lorraine
Yes.
- [60:23]
Lucien Pages
It's. It's not a Jew. You know what I mean? Because now the level of existence on digital is low.
- [60:31]
Lorraine
Yeah. So yeah.
- [60:33]
Lucien Pages
And I wanted to just say something about Brian Boy because I was always amazed as he always embrace new things and become relevant in the new. Like as you said, he started with a blog, then he became influencer when he was. It was good to become influencer. Then he done TikTok and he was big on TikTok. Then he became editor in chief of Perfect and mixing the. The regular press to the digital world. And then. And now he's a star and you know, he's always like so right on time with things that it's kind of really amazing.
- [61:17]
Lorraine
People like him and Becca would have been. I mean he is. Brian is an editor in chief but they would have been sort of. Suzy Lau is similar. She's a really good thinker. They would have been fashion director of the Times of London or a magazine editor in a different era. But because of the way Leandra Medine is like this too. Like she could have been the editor in chief of glamour magazine in 1994 or Harper's Bazaar or what have you. But because the world has changed, they have this way to be more direct. And it is a credit to people like you and like Katie grand who embrace the new and allow those people to become establishment in a different way than existed when you were working at St. Laurent. In the couture. In the couture offices. Like the establishment still exists, but it shifted and it required people who were part of the old guard to not to say you're old, but you know what I mean, to embrace that new guard.
- [62:26]
Lucien Pages
I love the old guard. You know, you have to accept that you cannot stay cool all your life. At one point you need to become a reference.
- [62:36]
Lorraine
It's true. It's true. Yes. So this idea of being established this past year you sold your company to a bigger group called the Independents, which is this sort of very well backed consortium of businesses that work in events and marketing and PR and strategy. And it's almost like for people outside of the industry, like a wpp, but for fashion and it's private right now. Who knows in the future, but I'm sure they're going to buy more businesses. And I'm always very interested in. You know, everybody has an exit strategy now. I think 20 years ago that wasn't the way people thought. Thought like you just did your business and you did it forever. And then maybe you closed it when you were done or, or, or you. But it wasn't like everybody. Now everybody wants to sell their business eventually, but you did it. And what. And what made you decide to do it? And what was like, what do you see the future of PR looking like is for your. You and your team inside this bigger group, but then also just generally.
- [63:55]
Lucien Pages
Yes. So it's. What you said is totally right. Like, because for me it was the case. I never think I would sell my business because I was thinking my business would never interested people, you know, because it was my name on the door, like very like personal way of doing things. Of course, with my team that. And. But we were really like. I mean, and. And then I think the independents before they buy me, they changed the deal, you know, when they decided to give to our job strengths because for me it's what they done. They were the first one to regroup our job of services in luxury and fashion. And they give this idea that finally those company could be profitable, could be powerful, could be. Nobody was treating us like that before. You know, they gave us really the strains for me. And now there is more and more people that do like them. And it's great because there is many opportunities and of course the independents cannot buy everything. So it's great that there will be like. I think they really create. When they left Asia, Isabel and Olivier, they are the founder of the Independence and they bought Carla too. And then they bought Betak. And it started like that. They really like showed that those company could be interesting for business and not only like people who serve the others. And yeah, so I was really happy. First of all, that's why I joined them because I love this philosophy that they respect our job of services and that they protect us somehow in giving us strength. For me it was a long journey because I know them and I speak to them since maybe five years. So I went through a process and there was some discussion in the past where I was too small. It was not interesting for me at that time. So I wait, you know, I was not desperate to sell. You know, I wanted to do it. It's something that you do once in your life. For me, in my case, so because I'm not an entrepreneur that has having several businesses and stuff like that. You know, I had my company and that's all and I sold it. So it's done for life, you know. So it was really important for me that I do it well. And of course there was a personal aspect that I knew the founder and I respect them and we share the same value. And as well I need it because the world is changing so fast and I need it. I need it personally. I need it for my mental health to be with people next to me after 18 years of operation of lonely entrepreneuria, you know, and. And I'm so happy that we can share with people who knows our job issues, hope, problems, problem solving, best practice. This is what is the independent. And then after there is the synergy with the other people of the group. But that was for me in fact quite natural because I was already working with their production company and I even can work with Carloto because now we are working on bigger, bigger scale event. And sometimes one agency is not enough. And I was already working with Carloto on several projects. Like for example, we do shows where I do France and UK and they do the rest of the world or when it's in Paris, sometimes I do front of the house and they do a specific country. Or it can be the same in New York and the same in Italy as it is with KCDO offices. You know, we always collaborate with other press offices like the client create his own way of operating that can include different agency. So for me the synergy was already existing and I think they will be more interesting in the future because I think we can pitch globally on some project or voila, it's more. And after how it's. I mean it's very selfish my decision, you know, I don't need to protect my. My company, you know, and to. To. To look at the future with less pressure. But I think the way our jobs are evolving is truly in that direction. But maybe it will create space for even more niche agency. Because in general it's what is happening when there is things that are becoming big. And of course it's creating a space for something. It's what happened to me. I arrived and I was very boutique boutique and I was niche and that was the key of my success. So maybe the fact that us will be coming bigger maybe create space for someone smaller and it's great, you know, I'm. Everyone has his own agenda in life is a different age. I'm turning 50 this year. You know, my life is. Is not the life of a. Of A young guy that start in fashion. You know, I have different. I have a different agenda. And also after Covid, I think a lot of things changed because our job were particularly affected. But in France we had a very like really great help from the government. We have to clear and we didn't suffer that much because they were paying the salary at our place. But a lot of clients like ask for discount. Most of them, some cancel the contract. So always things like I would have been very happy to have the independence with me at that time. No.
- [69:40]
Lorraine
Yeah, yeah. I mean it's a pragmatic choice. And. And it also just shows your outlook on life and the way you view the industry and you way you view the businesses that it changes and you have to change with it.
- [69:53]
Lucien Pages
Yeah. And also to be honest, nothing really changed for me. You know, they live. They as their name said, they are, they. They. They really respect the founders. They want the founders to. To. To. To eat. You know, they are not stupid if they. They. They buy you. They want you to be there and to do what you do as the best. And for me it's pr, so they want to leave me do my job at his best, you know. And it's look a bit like normal what I'm saying, but I in other field and it's not the same. People buy company and it destroy them, you know. So it's not like I'm very lucky that I'm with people who understand what is entrepreneurial, what is being a founder and what is the industry of luxury.
- [70:40]
Lorraine
Well, they're very lucky to have you. Lucien, thank you so much for taking the time. This was such a pleasure.
- [70:45]
Lucien Pages
It's so great to work with you conversation. It was like being with a friend at the coffee, you know.
- [70:50]
Lorraine
It was fabulous. It was really, really fun. You're the best. Thank you for everything.
- [70:56]
Lucien Pages
Thank you, Lorraine.
- [70:59]
Lorraine
Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations, God, Bobby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.