The Preppy Handbook

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: Fashion People – "The Preppy Handbook"

Host: Lauren Sherman
Guest: Libby Wadle, CEO of J.Crew Group
Date: September 12, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Lauren Sherman sits down in person with Libby Wadle, CEO of J.Crew Group, to explore how she revived J.Crew and what it takes to keep the iconic American brand relevant. The discussion delves into Libby’s career journey, the importance of creativity and merchandising, evolving brand identity, collaboration with creative directors, the “preppy” resurgence in fashion, and modern retail challenges. The conversation is an insightful behind-the-scenes look at what’s shaping J.Crew—and American fashion—today.

---

Key Themes and Discussion Points

1. J.Crew House at 190 Bowery: Bringing the Catalog to Life

Timestamps: [06:37]–[10:49]

• Experiencing J.Crew Immersively: Libby describes the experiential “J.Crew House” popup at the historic Germania bank building in NYC, designed to let customers “walk into a catalog brought to life.”
• The space features themed rooms (e.g., a stripe room, a cashmere room, a dining room draped in clothes) and reflects feedback from customers wanting more immersive, inclusive experiences.
• Quote (Libby Wadle, [07:07]):
  "It's really meant to be sort of what it would feel like if you were living inside a J.Crew catalog."
• Open to the public during Fashion Week, aiming for authenticity and irreverence—"how J.Crew shows up" ([11:37]).

2. Why Engage with Fashion Week?

Timestamps: [10:49]–[12:05]

• Despite a perceived diminishing importance of Fashion Week in the U.S., J.Crew uses the timing to connect with both the industry and the public, taking advantage of the energy and presence in NYC.

3. Libby’s Beginnings: From Mall Rat to CEO

Timestamps: [13:24]–[18:23]

• Libby recounts starting as a retail “mall rat,” her early jobs (Haagen Dazs, Britches Great Outdoors), and her discovery of merchandising.
• Her big break came at The Gap, where Nancy Green recruited her, leading to a decade of influential work in the 1990s retail scene.
• Quote (Libby Wadle, [19:03]):
  "It was major... I learned everything there... It didn't feel big, which was the beauty of it."

4. Learning from Mickey Drexler and the Outlet Experience

Timestamps: [20:59]–[24:33]

• Libby shares how Mickey Drexler’s “good micro” micromanagement and direct involvement influenced her leadership style, emphasizing close connections with team and customers ([22:15]).
• Her first J.Crew role was to reinvent the outlet business—transitioning from merely selling old stock to developing new product lines, learning hands-on business-building.
• Quote (Libby Wadle, [23:19]):
  "...that gave me the opportunity to completely develop product... I was able to be very, very hands on in all aspects of the business through that experience."

5. Leading Multiple Brands: J.Crew, Factory, Madewell

Timestamps: [24:38]–[29:38]

• Libby held several leadership positions at J.Crew Group, including helping to launch Madewell.
• The success of distinguishing Madewell (especially premium denim for women) came from clarity in brand differentiation and learning to “lean in to denim from the beginning” ([26:12]).
• The importance of emotional, generational brand identity is reinforced through storytelling and even a J.Crew coffee table book.

6. The “J.Crew Resurgence” & Creative Leadership

Timestamps: [29:48]–[34:13]

• Libby navigated J.Crew through turbulence, new ownership, and leadership change in 2020.
• She became CEO via an organic, partnership-driven conversation, not a formal boardroom pitch ([33:20]).
• Her early focus: “getting creative back in the house.”

7. Olympian & Brendon: Empowering Creative Directors

Timestamps: [34:13]–[40:35]

• Olympia Gayot and Brendon Babenzien were brought onboard as creative directors.
• Libby's approach: empower their creativity, balance commercial instincts, and avoid over-merchandising.
• Quote (Libby Wadle, [37:57]):
  "We want our pants to fit... We get excited if there's a bestseller... we want to make sure we're designing the thing that makes you stand out."
• The tension between data-driven decisions and creative gut instinct is a defining feature of her leadership.

8. Data vs. Merchant Intuition

Timestamps: [40:35]–[42:43]

• Libby sees modern retail data as akin to a “store visit on steroids”—useful, but not to be followed blindly.
• Quote (Libby Wadle, [42:23]):
  "Data will never replace your gut... you can be suffocated by the data if you have too much."

9. Balancing Menswear & Womenswear POVs

Timestamps: [42:43]–[47:21]

• The women's side, led by Olympia, mashes up classic and current trends, while Brendon leans into 1980s heritage—essential for today’s “preppy” nostalgia.
• A collaborative example: evolving the iconic J.Crew rollneck sweater for women as well as men ([45:02]).
• Quote (Libby Wadle, [46:13]):
  "...we designed the women's, the 2025 roll neck in that meeting and that's now out. It's terrific. And both are terrific. And so that's sort of how we connect the generations."

10. The Preppy Moment: Streetwear Goes Runway

Timestamps: [47:30]–[50:03]

• High fashion houses (Dior, Celine) referencing J.Crew-style preppiness is a major cultural shift.
• Libby and her team relish being a reference point—“it's a testament to everything that we've done in our past and everything we're doing today” ([48:54]).

11. Navigating the Difficult Retail Landscape

Timestamps: [50:03]–[52:13]

• Acknowledgment of retail headwinds: discounting, tariffs, inflation, changing consumer habits.
• For Libby, success is about returning to product and emotional value: “super emotional and you have to have priced right” ([51:14]).

12. Madewell's Next Chapter

Timestamps: [52:13]–[54:54]

• Madewell—once "the cooler, younger sister"—is in transition.
• The focus is on recapturing spirit, quirk, irreverence, and, critically, denim fit.
• Libby praises the current Madewell team, especially designer Steven Cateron.

13. The Evolving Role of Retail Stores

Timestamps: [55:05]–[57:47]

• Stores are "critically important," but the experience must go beyond just product; stores need to be the “best self” of the brand.
• The new Boston/Newbury St. flagship serves as an example of merging heritage and modernity in physical retail.
• Quote (Libby Wadle, [56:35]):
  "You have to bring it in stores, and that's hard for retailers... but stores are so important, and so we're getting really deliberate shoppers who are coming in and wanting to… have an experience."

14. On Scale, Growth, and Staying Fun

Timestamps: [57:47]–[58:41]

• When asked if she'd want to run a bigger company, Libby says her focus is on making J.Crew's brand as big as its business and protecting that as it grows.
• Quote (Libby Wadle, [58:18]):
  "Our brand is so much bigger than our business and we still have so much opportunity to grow into that... as long as you protect that brand, I actually think it can be fun."

---

Notable Quotes

• On Merchandising:
  "I was a mall rat growing up… I'm just a retail girl." (Libby, [13:32])
• On Leadership:
  "It's a small world… the approach to leadership was very collaborative." (Libby, [18:32], [24:38])
• On Cultural Influence:
  "The fact that we are a reference is a testament to everything that we've done in our past and everything we're doing today." (Libby, [48:54])
• On the Product Experience:
  "You have to have super emotional and you have to have priced right." (Libby, [51:14])
• On Creative Tension:
  "We don't want the customer to be the only person to tell us what they want… we want to make sure we're designing the thing that makes you stand out." (Libby, [37:57])

---

Memorable Moments

• Martha Stewart, iconically dressed in a J.Crew rollneck, attending the J.Crew House popup and nearly stealing the show ([12:16]).
• Libby’s warm, humorous recollection of her mall days and the "kale of the ‘80s": macadamia nuts ([14:37]).
• The spontaneous and organic way Libby was offered the CEO role during a Williamsburg neighborhood lunch—“Do you just want to run this whole thing?” ([33:20]).

---

Episode Timeline: Key Segments

• J.Crew House / Pop-up Experience: [06:37]–[10:49]
• Libby’s Retail Journey: [13:24]–[18:23]
• Mickey Drexler’s Influence: [20:59]–[22:15]
• Outlet and Brand Expansion: [23:01]–[29:38]
• Taking the CEO Seat: [29:48]–[34:13]
• Creative Leadership—Olympia & Brendon: [34:13]–[40:35]
• Data vs. Intuition: [40:35]–[42:43]
• Brand Generational Mashups: [42:43]–[47:21]
• Preppy Resurgence in High Fashion: [47:30]–[50:03]
• Retail Challenges & Product Focus: [50:03]–[52:13]
• Madewell's Next Steps: [52:13]–[54:54]
• Physical Retail’s Evolving Role: [55:05]–[57:47]
• Growth and Brand Fun: [57:47]–[58:41]

---

Takeaways

• J.Crew’s Relevance springs from honoring generational brand identity while evolving for today’s landscape—and a strategic willingness to celebrate its preppy heritage.
• Libby Wadle’s Leadership is defined by collaborative empowerment, balancing creativity with commerce, and knowing when to trust gut over data.
• Physical retail is more critical than ever, not just as a point-of-sale but as a multi-sensory brand experience.
• Creativity and authenticity—not just trend-chasing—are the secret to lasting brand energy, even as high fashion circles back to “preppy” influences.

---

Fashion People continues to deliver rare, candid views from fashion’s insiders, merging nostalgia, modernity, and the real business of style.

---

Transcript

[A]

Hauser and Wirth is honored to present its first New York City exhibition devoted to the work of Sir Don McCullen, CBE, lauded internationally as one of the most influential photojournalists of our time. McCullen's most comprehensive US presentation to date and coincides with the artist's 90th birthday. Complemented by seldom seen archival materials and historical ephemera, Don McCullen, a desecrated serenity will offer visitors a deep look at the astonishingly diverse events, people and landscapes he has captured over the past seven decades. Visit houserworth.com for more information and visit a desecrated serenity at 443 W. 18th St. In New York through Nov. 9. You know those little habits that quietly upgrade your whole day? For me, it starts the moment I wake up with a giant glass of water, the breakfast of champions. Before coffee, before making my kids lunch, I grab a bottle of Fiji Water to get hydrated because hydration is my number one priority in life. Seriously, Fiji Water isn't just refreshing, it's Earth's finest water. It comes from the islands of Fiji, filtered through ancient volcanic rock and naturally preserved from external elements. It's bottled at the source and untouched by man until you unscrew the cap. Here's what makes it different. Fiji Water has a perfectly balanced 7.7 ph and has more than double the electrolytes as the other two top premium bottled water brands, giving its signature soft, smooth taste. Unlike the other two top premium bottled water brands, Fiji Water's electrolytes are 100% naturally occurring. Fiji Water is also leading the way in sustainability. Since 2022, their 330 and 500 milliliter bottles have been made using 100% recycled plastic. Fiji Water is the number one premium importer bottled water brand in the US and it's easy to see why Fiji Water is Earth's finest water. Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Fucks Fashion and Beauty Memo, Line Sheet and today with me on the show is Libby Wadle, CEO of the J. Crew Group. We're talking about how she made J. Crew cool again, what she needs to do to keep it that way, and so much more. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical and above all, fun along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world, and much more. If you're interested listeners of Fashion people get a discount. Just go to Puck News fashionpeople to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday everyone. This is quick because I'm totally extremely busy, just as all of you are, but I just wanted to say that we had an absolutely fabulous time last night at Chateau Royale, hosting a very special Puck private dinner with Starbucks. Yes, there were espresso martinis, but it was so much more. There was plenty of conversation, which of course was off the record. It was a really interesting mix of people. I love doing these dinners because we bring in, you know, people from Victoria's Secret and people from Tibby and people from Rachel Antonoff was there. There were a bunch of Gap people like it's a really good mix. High, low, low, high. And I had a great time. I hope everyone who attended did as well and made some new friends. I suspect you're gonna see Starbucks doing a lot more in the fashion space. They have a whole new team there, New Chief Brand Officer Tressy and a lot of new great people, new CEO. So it was interesting. I'm so glad that they did it. It was fun. I hope we can do another one with them. And I was happy to kick off the week with this dinner. So if you're in New York this weekend, Libby and I are going to talk about this on the podcast. But be sure to check out the J. Crew house, which is in that old bank building. Google Germania bank building, New York magazine. There's an amazing story about the family that used to own it, but anyway, I think we kind of covered that. I can't even remember, but it's really cool. It's an amazing space. I stopped by the cocktails on Tuesday night. They had a big dinner there. Martha Stewart was there in her roll neck. We talked about that a bit, but it's really cool. Libby describes it in the podcast. I think it's worth going to it's catalog come to life. So enjoy it and check out line sheet. Lots of scoops. Lots of fun stuff in there, but I'm too busy to talk about it. You'll have to read to learn more. Libby Wadel, welcome to Fashion People.

[B]

Hey, Lauren, super excited to be here.

[A]

I think you're my first in person recording other than the live tapings we've done. Wait.

[B]

Ever?

[A]

Yeah, because we do. We always do it via this app. Riverside.

[B]

Right. Okay, cool. We never met in person. Thank you.

[A]

Well, I'm so. I'm so happy to have you. What did you have for breakfast this morning?

[B]

I had. Okay, so I recently visited my parents, and they live in Colorado, and so I just eat whatever they have. And I was reintroduced to, of all things, this is very retro. Grape Nuts.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

So I have. So now I bought Grape Nuts. I came back home, and I have Grape Nuts on my yogurt with some blueberry.

[A]

Lots of fiber.

[B]

It's amazing, actually.

[A]

It sounds really good.

[B]

It's very satisfying.

[A]

I also think this protein insanity is. Is about to move into fiber insanity.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

So I bet they're coming back. You do have a sense of what's next.

[B]

It. I don't. I don't think that Grape Nuts is really as wholesome as you think it is. I think it's probably. Yeah, it's pretty processed, I would imagine.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

But it's.

[A]

It's really delicious. So did you go from breakfast right to 190 Bowery?

[B]

No. No.

[A]

Can you tell us. We are sitting in this amazing room covered in striped fabric, cotton, or. I don't. What is there, like, particularly?

[B]

We've got some Oxford in here. Oxford, yeah. This is really in Oxford. We're sitting really on, like, a stripe Oxford couch. But you're sitting in the stripe room inside One90 Bowery, which is the J. Crew house that we've taken over for the week. And it's really meant to be. You know, you walk into a catalog brought to life.

[A]

And.

[B]

And so we have. You're sitting in the stripe room, and you walk through, and we have a cashmere room, So a bed draped in cashmere with piles of cashmere. We have a beautiful dining room with sort of clothes draped everywhere. It really is meant to be sort of what it would feel like if you were living inside a J. Crew catalog.

[A]

What made you all want to do this? And we're in a very particular building. This 190bower is the. Is Germania. Is that what it was called? The bank building?

[B]

Yes, that's right. Yes.

[A]

And it has a ton of history. For a long. For a while, totokayo was in the next door. Supreme is on the end right now. Great. Bowery. The agency was here for a long time. It's a really cool old school building.

[B]

There was actually also. I think I actually learned this last night from someone I was sitting next to. We had a dinner here and from Rory, and she told me that there was A family who used to live here as well. So there's a whole story around a family who lived here.

[A]

Yeah, there's a great New York magazine article about them.

[B]

Yes, that is. And she's sending me a clip. I haven't read it yet, but I need to read it.

[A]

They made so much money on this building. What made you all want to do this? I was here last night briefly for cocktails, and it really did. I saw one of the models from the catalog, and it really did feel like we were living in the catalog you all just published, which is really awesome. Like, it's just such a great campaign and great visuals, and everything feels. I hate using food words for fashion, but it does feel, like, very yummy.

[B]

It is delicious. It's really, really good. No, it's good. I mean, what. What made us want to do this? I mean, honestly, we've been doing for the past few years around this time activations and things like that. Just celebrating. We did. You know, we had a big 40th anniversary a couple of years ago. Big party we. This incredible activation at the New York Public Library last year, which was also great. But we heard a lot of feedback from our customers. You know, that they wanted a piece of the action. They wanted to be part of it. So we wanted to put something together that felt very immersive, like you said, walking into a catalog. And then we're having this space all week, and we're inviting the public in, and they're able to walk through and really experience it. So really, this was a way to sort of open ourselves up. We really had this brainstorm conversation. There's a group of us. We're like the creative group of, obviously, Olympia, who is our creative director on women's. Brendan from Men's. Julia is our new chief marketing officer, who's great. And actually Kevin, who is our chairman and really a partner to me, Kevin Ulrich, all of us together were brainstorming, okay, how are we going to just sort of do better than we've ever done and do more and more and using this feedback, like, hearing this feedback that we get through all of our channels is we want to be a part of the whole J. Crew thing. And so it was just sort of started there. Like, how do we bring it all to life?

[A]

So, yeah, it's. It's interesting. Why do you. Did you decide to. Because the first two. The first one I missed, I had an event. The second one I missed, I had.

[B]

You missed them both?

[A]

I missed them both because I had a fashion show last year that I had already RSVP for, and it was very far away, so I couldn't. And I was very sad. And last night I also had something, but I was able to stop by. And I'm so glad because everyone. There's so much goodwill for these things. And I understand from the. The industry perspective why we like having this here.

[B]

It's.

[A]

You all. Do you make it a really good time? But why do you think it's good to, like, engage around Fashion Week in particular? That especially because it's sort of diminishing in terms of its. In the US at least in terms of its importance, in terms what it.

[B]

Was originally meant for, I think. But it has become an opportunity, honestly, to show up and talk about your brand. And, And. And honestly, we're taking advantage of everyone's here. I mean, the open just finished. People are in town, they're getting. We're. We're actually right before Fashion Week starting, and we wanted to do something that felt totally like ourselves and not try to be something we're not. And so if you walk into this house, which. Yeah, I'm not sure when this is airing.

[A]

Maybe Friday morning.

[B]

Yeah, on Friday, we'll be open to the public. So if you're in New York, you can see, but there's just sort of an irreverence to it. If you walk around, there's like, you know, a dry cleaning bag with a J. Crew shirt hanging. And there's just. It's just very real and authentic, and it's really how J. Crew shows up. And so, I don't know, we just wanted to show up that way for more people. And, yeah, it's a good time. I mean, who doesn't love fall this time of year in New York?

[A]

The weather's so good.

[B]

Beautiful, beautiful time.

[A]

I ran into Martha Stewart. She was here in the atelier that set up. And it was pretty amazing. You got great celebrities, great mix of people. Just felt really, really good.

[B]

It was good. Martha was wearing a roll neck. It was iconic.

[A]

She was. And she looked amazing. So how did you get here? You have worked at J. Crew for a long time. You're sort of one of these retail lifers. You've been in the industry and worked at different brands for. For most of your career, all of your career. And you. You have been leading J. Crew during this period where it has been like a period of a lot of creativity and a lot of sort of burnishing of the brand itself after, you know, 15 years of highs and lows and amazingness. But you really were able to. The thing that I think is interesting about your tenure leading the group is that you were able to take the best things of J. Crew and make it feel new and for now and what people want now. And that is such a challenge. So tell. Tell us how. How you got here, where you started, and what your sort of path was in terms of retail, like which area of the business that you. You focused on.

[B]

So you want me to start at the very beginning or you want me to start in 2020?

[A]

I know, the very beginning.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Then we'll have to start at the mall.

[A]

Yes, I want you to start. I want you to start with. How did Libby work her way up to run the entire J. Crew group? And what. I. You were a merchant, but I am a merchant. You are a merchant. What. What. How. How did you. What. What made you want to do it?

[B]

Why did you stay? Yeah, okay, okay, Let me. Let me try to hit each of those. So. Well, I start. I really did start at the mall. And I'm just a retail girl. I'm like a. I was a mall rat growing up. It was, you know, where I grew up. I was a teenager in sort of the late 80s, I guess, early 90s. And I. That. You just went to the mall and I could. I was too young to get a job at a retail store, so I applied for a job at the Haagen Dazs ice cream counter. And I loved it. And I mean, I still remember our best selling flavor, Macadamia nut brittle. Macadamia Delicious nuts. In the 80s, it was like the kale of the 80s.

[A]

Interesting. Yeah, they are really good.

[B]

They're good. They're so bad for you, I think, but very rich. I don't. I doubt they have that flavor anymore. But anyway, so I worked there briefly, briefly, until I was able to beg my way into a retail job through my dad, actually, who shopped at this store. It was an old haberdashery store in Georgetown. I don't think it exists anymore. I grew up outside of Washington, D.C. it was called Britches of Georgetown, a men's store. And he had a guy who helped him, and he got me a job at their kind of younger, preppier, cooler version called Britches. Great outdoors. I think if there's people listening or from the east coast or the mid Atlantic, they might know it. It had, you know, it was a mini chain. And so I got a job. I got a job there. And I fell in love with selling honestly. What's funny about that store, I mean, the best selling items there were the rugby. And they were known for these like rubber, rubber buttons on the placket on the rugby. It was very preppy. It was not that different from where I'm sitting today. I'm like, we're like sitting in that moment. And so, yeah, so I just loved it. I felt I was immediately hooked on retail. And so I started at the mall and I basically went to college. Not for fashion, not for retail. But my memories really of college, I went to school in Boston, were all about just working at the Chestnut Hill Mall, at the store, my side hustle. And at J.

[A]

Crew.

[B]

Not at J. Crew. Actually not at J. Crew. But I did get my first. So I. When I was graduating, through my experiences, I learned about a job called buying. You know, you don't really know what the jobs are. You have no idea. You're either like a fashion designer or you work in a store. So I learned about buying and I'd heard about this really glamorous sounding Bloomingdale's buyer's training program. So I graduated and I actually bought my first interview suit at the J. Crew in, in Boston. It was in their old collection section. It was this incredible wool twill, Italian fabric that we probably still use. It was incredible. And I didn't get the job. I didn't. I didn't actually apply for Bloomingdale's. I didn't even get that interview. Yeah, I applied to another department store which is no longer in business, and they did not hire me. And they also asked my SAT scores during the interview for a job after college, which is funny, very weird, which I wasn't that proud of. So that wasn't great. But. So I didn't get the job. And I decided, listen, I love retail. And I moved myself out to the west coast where at that point the company I ultimately knew I wanted to work at was the Gap. And they were based there. I didn't have a job there, but I got a job at the mall. And I happened. I had an incredible sort of selling experience probably three months into it with a woman named Nancy Green.

[A]

Oh, I know Nancy Green, who is.

[B]

Currently the CEO of Beyond Yoga.

[A]

It's amazing.

[B]

Amazing. And she recruited me based on my. My service into the first ever merchandising training program at the Gap. Yes. And that is. I went for the interview. They gave me a job on the spot. Who does that now? That doesn't happen these days. And yeah, I started in that program.

[A]

And this is 90s.

[B]

Yeah, this was like mid-90s. Yeah.

[A]

It's so funny because all of these people, Nancy Green, they're all. You're all celebrities to me, but you're all so. Still connected.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's really amazing how many people came out.

[B]

It's a small. It's a small world. Yeah.

[A]

Well, you know who. Who I also love, who was there around that time is Jenny. Jenny Mink.

[B]

Jenny Mink. Yeah.

[A]

She's so awesome.

[B]

And Old Navy started when I was there. Yeah.

[A]

So what was it like? You're working at the biggest brand in the world in so many ways, and also kind of dictating how people were dressing at the time. Through the 80s and the 90s, the gap was. It was where, you know, 90% of the population started.

[B]

It was major, and it was. It was the place. It was very cool. And I just learned. I learned everything there. And it was a big company, you know, I don't know, maybe 10. Maybe 10 billion at the time. And it didn't feel big, which was the beauty of it. And I learned how to be a merchant, and I learned how to sponge it all in and soak it up. And, you know, I was an assistant merchant, merchant presenting to the CEO Mickey, at that time. And that just wouldn't have happened anywhere else. And it was super unique. And I got. I just. It was incredible. So it was. I was there for about 10 years, and then I moved to New York, and one thing led to another at a little stop in between. But I got a phone call from Mickey, who had landed at J. Crew, and I was. I vividly remember driving. I was out on Long island visiting someone, and I had to be. He called my cell phone, and it was sort of pretext, I guess, those days. And it was a big deal then. And I said, hold on, I have to pull over. And he said, listen, you want to come join this team? We're just starting this up. I know you do women's. Because I was always in women's prior to that, but we don't have that job. But we have this outlet business, and right now, we just sell, like. We just sell, you know, old catalog things, old retail store things. And we have 40 stores, and you can make it whatever you want. Just come on board. And so I took it and jumped in, and that was really the opportunity I had to take on something bigger and make it my own. I was no longer a merchant. I was general manager. And it was incredible, actually.

[A]

Hauser and Wirth is honored to present its first New York City exhibition devoted to the work of Sir Don McCullen CBE, lauded internationally as one of the most influential photojournalists of our time. McClellan's most comprehensive US presentation to date and coincides with the artist's 90th birthday. Complemented by seldom seen archival materials and historical ephemera, Don McCullen a desecrated serenity will offer visitors a deep look at the astonishingly diverse events, people and landscapes he has captured over the past seven decades. Visit housesworth.com for more information and visit a desecrated serenity at 443 W. 18th St. In New York through Nov. 9. Do you think when, when people do profiles of Mickey, they often talk about him being like a micromanager? Do you think his approach, like him calling you and being involved and you presenting to him and the way he ran his businesses did that has that influence how you lead and how you interact with the people that are now all working for you?

[B]

That's the good micro of micromanage. I mean, honestly, I just this morning was on the phone with someone, I want to come work for us. And she will report to someone who reports to me, who reports to me, but we really want this person. And I called her and had that conversation and was trying to understand sort of what she was thinking about how she was making the decision. It's absolutely a big part of what I learned being there through that generation is just that connection with the people who you work with with and your customers and just sort of, he's a sponge. It's like a constant, how much can I learn from you? And that's, I definitely got that from my time there.

[A]

And what was learning that outlet business, what do you think that taught you? Because now outlet is such a big part or off price is such a big part of every business. Do you think that that was good to have that foundation when you started at J. Crew, given the way the market works now?

[B]

Yeah, I mean you learn the power of for sure and that value proposition and how to really price something to move it. And honestly though, that gave me the opportunity to completely develop product. I had been a traditional merchant with a designer and I was able to the merchants in that business really developed the product and it's very straight, much more straightforward. It's a very merchandise driven assortment. And so I had the opportunity to really hire a team, build a line and really do everything from scratch. So I just, I was able to be very, very hands on in all aspects of the business through that experience. So it really wasn't just about Outlet. It was just starting up a business that I really was good at. And I didn't know that really until I had gone and took that opportunity, which was kind of scary because I had never done Outlet Factory and I certainly had never started up anything. But it was a real luxury to be able to be in a business that had resources, but also be able to start up and it became really a cash cow for the business.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's amazing. So how did you end up moving out of that?

[B]

So I kept it. So the, the thing about that time, it was very. The approach to leadership was very collaborative and so I had a lot of roles, a lot of part time roles, which I'm so fortunate to have had. I mean, honestly, the business was less complex. Online was around, but it was more one dimensional than it is today. And so I took on madewell, or I honestly was part of the incubation of madewell. That took a while to sort of figure out who we were when we acquired that name, when Mickey did. And but once that really sort of started to take shape, I took over that business as well. But I actually held onto the factory business. It was a very eclectic mix of businesses, but it was great and I helped build the team for that and I did that for a while. So, yeah, I was the head of J. Crew factory and madewell.

[A]

When you all launched madewell, I think that a challenge with these kinds of groups is the fear of cannibalization. So I remember Jenny Ming telling me a story about Old Navy where she had a 2999 cargo pant and the gap was 45. And the gap was like, yours is too nice. She was like, oh, well. And that is a challenge. And I think in the end you were able to distinguish them enough. But how did you do it and how were you all thinking about that? Because the reality of it is you all sell similar things.

[B]

Yeah, it actually was a pivotal moment for us when we, because we actually did go through that sort of who are we and who should we be? We actually started with men's. No one really knows that. And we quickly didn't do it. I don't even remember if it made it to market. But we focus on women's. And it was at the time when premium denim, skinny jeans, stretch was really a big thing. And there was this opportunity for people not to pay over $200 for jeans at that point, you know, the premium brands were over 200 bucks. Now they're even more. And there was a big opportunity really to service this hundred ish dollar price point, but give them sort of this premium quality at a non premium price. So I think the key with madewell, which I believe actually has been pretty differentiated from J. Crew, it's because we really leaned in to denim from the beginning and made that our franchise. But you have to be very careful. I mean, to this day, I oversee all of the brands and you have to be careful not to bring everything into. I go from one meeting on an assortment review to another. And your approach has to be different and how Olympia might translate a trend in J. Crew is different. If you have your head on straight about who your brand is and who your aesthetic is, what Steven, our creative director at madewell, is doing will be very different in how he sees that trend.

[A]

So do you have brand books or are the brands too established to have something like that?

[B]

You know, we have J. Crew. We've. You know, when I started, about two years after I started one of the biggest. This is not really what you're asking, but it really. Actually the process of this really helped. I think on LinkedIn, one of the first questions was, could you please make a coffee table book out of your old catalogs? And that was honestly when. So that came up when my appointment was announced. And so it was in my brain and we just weren't ready. We had a lot to do before we could get there. But two years into it, we did a coffee table book. And the process of that book really helped cement the generations.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so we have a few different versions of that that when we now go back and put, for instance, put this house together, we really had to get in touch with all of our generations. You know, with the 80s and the 90s for J. Crew and what that meant. And obviously the aughts. And that's what you say, aughts, right. The 2000, you could say the aughts. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

The naughties, you can say the 2000 and tens.

[B]

The 2000 and tens, really? And that was another peak time. A lot of people have memories, and that's when I was there running it with Mickey, with Jenna. And so there's all these generations of the brand that are all rooted in the same thing. But it's important. It was important exercise to put it all together, I think. So we do do that in each of the brands to make sure that we really feel our. We know our identity, we know our handwriting, our personality. But we don't do it in like a fancy marketing way. If you know what I mean?

[A]

Yes, that makes sense. It's. It's not brand book, like agency brand book.

[B]

It's like. No.

[A]

Emotional brand book.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So you were. You have been there since what, 20405?

[B]

Yeah, I've been there, I think, 22 years.

[A]

22 years.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Okay. So you have been through several iterations of the business. And also you were there during a time.

[B]

J.

[A]

Crew is the kind of brand that. It had such a peak with the Michelle Obama and the Jenna and all of that. So I remember you being on the COVID of a magazine with Jenna.

[B]

Like, there was a wind machine. If I look at there, it's a.

[A]

Great photo, but it was such an. The bubble neck, all that stuff. I was like, this is never. They're gonna. It's not gonna work.

[B]

It's good.

[A]

They're. It's just gonna become. It's gonna become the past. Because it's harder now to get away from things because everything's so instant. So people can look up imagery from that era, and they look up at Simplicity City. There's J. Crew catalogs everywhere on. On the Internet. And so it's hard to sort of escape your past, especially your recent thought. It's not possible. And there were a few leaders between you and Mickey when Mickey retired. And then there were a couple people who tried, and it didn't work. How did you end up getting the big job? And what was your pitch to the board to. Because you were this person who you would sort of be. You would have a very senior role. You were always around. And then suddenly it was like Libby did it. Libby figured. Navigated this whole thing to get to make it to the top. And then when you got there, you actually did the thing that needed to be done. But what was your pitch to the board when it was. When you were up for that job? You might have been up for it many times, and I don't know.

[B]

It's so kind of regular when I tell you the story. So it was 2020, so I've had this role about five years, and it was obviously a weird time for everyone. We had new ownership and a lot less debt than we used to. I had just come off of running. I was running madewell, and it was coming off an incredibly high performing boom time for us and was all living and breathing the brand. Living and breathing the brand, but also just trying to navigate through what was a very turbulent time for everyone, and especially us, given our switchover and ownership and all of that. And so I had a New owner Kevin Ulrich, who I mentioned earlier, who's our chairman now, and he runs Anchorage Capital, and he. They're the majority owner. And so he was really the person I was most in touch with throughout that transition time before anyone had that job. Yeah, there was a time where there were two of us. And so I was establishing that relationship just through kind of what we're doing now, just talking about the business and what I think and all of that. And I had a lunch in the fall of 2020, I'll never forget, because it was that moment, what you just said, like, oh, Libby made it. Like, I had that feeling of, oh, this is it. I was, you're gonna crack up. Cause you know the restaurant in the neighborhood. I live in Williamsburg. And I had lunch with Kevin, and I walked him through the Madewell store on North 6, and then we had lunch at Cafe Mogador Outside. Because everyone was eating outside at that point.

[A]

Oh, my.

[B]

Yeah. And that's around one block from my house. And we were talking and having a good lunch and talking about the business and talking about just how we should be as a brand, and we were talking about J. Crew. J. Crew wasn't mine at that point, but just what the opportunity was to really live up to the brand. Brand. And he really saw that as well. And he said to me, okay, so do you just want to run this whole thing? It wasn't like I went into the board and made a big pitch. It really happened. But it hap. That was perfect because that's. It just. It was organic. It was natural. It was a partnership. And that's honestly how it's remained today with Kevin. And so, yeah, that's how it happened. And then in terms of the board, I mean, even beyond the board, it was really. First order of business was getting creative back in the house.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So let's talk about Olympia and Brendon. I know I'm sure you've told the story many times. You knew Brendan for a long time before. But they're both people who they're not. They don't need a lot of attention, but they are public people because of just who they are. And so how did you figure out. I can't. Was Olympia already there when you got the job?

[B]

For like, two seconds.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Olympia was there in the 2000s.

[A]

Yes. I remember this because she went to work at Victoria's Secret.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes. Right. And so then she came back before I got this role, but literally two weeks before. But I didn't hire her on oh, wow. Yeah. And so it was interesting. So we were both new kind of figuring things out, and I didn't have a head of men's at that point. And, you know, I said, I think the prior thinking was we aren't ever going to go back to sort of that creative director leadership because of sort of what you said about that magazine cover. Like, it became sort of this thing. And it needed to be about J. Crew. Yes. But it needed to be about creativity first. Because that's really. If I think. When I think back to all the good times, it was always when it was creative first and it wasn't an overly merchandise line. And so after working with Olympia for a while, not that long, it was clear that she just really could level up in terms of thinking like a creative director and bring so much more to the business and influence to the business. And then Brendan came in shortly thereafter. It was all in 2021. It all happened pretty fast.

[A]

And how do you empower people like that? Because I was just talking to the guys from Buck Mason who. Have you met them?

[B]

No, I haven't, but they're doing a great job.

[A]

They're doing a great job, but they're nice guys. And they were talking about, we're design led, we're not merchant led. And I think, look, some of it's semantic. Some of it is really about creative led. And how did you empower Olympia, for instance, who has never had a public role but has such a particular. She has such great taste. And her. I can just. I can see parts of this building that came from her head.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And same with Brendan. But how do you. In a. In an organization that is. Has a lot of structure, how do you empower people like that? Like, what do you give them creatively? Because I cover a lot of businesses that are really stymied by the fact that they don't have the budgets that they once had or they don't know how to use the money that they have in a creative way. How did you figure out what to allocate to their brains, essentially?

[B]

Yeah, it's unique. I mean, I think it's unique for a brand like J. Crew to have creative directors as I don't think. I think it's actually what makes us a little bit unique and to be set up that way. And how do I give them room? I mean, I am not a designer. I'm creative, but not a creative like they are. And I am the type of merchant that has to be in a brand that I'm inspired by. Right. And. And that comes from sort of how I grew up, how I was trained, and always having these incredible designers around me. The great thing is both Brendan and Olympia are highly commercial. I mean, we all want to sell clothes. Okay.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

We want our pants to fit. Yes. And we get excited if there's a bestseller. Yeah. It's just that we don't want the customer to be the only person to tell us what they want. That's the difference. Like, we all have this customer information. Everyone has it. We all have a ton. Right. And we need it. And the customer being at the center and. And very important in all the insights that you get anecdotal. And also from all of our data that we have. We use it, but at the same time, we wanna make sure we're designing the thing that makes you stand out. And that's what Olympia and Brendan bring to the table. Right. It's not what everyone else is wearing. To the dinner party we had this funny story of a merchant came in and said, who was very much in our demographic. I was at, you know, I was at a dinner party. It was late spring, and all the women were wearing, you know, their arms were covered and they were wearing long floral dresses. And do we have enough of that in our line? And should we just deliver, you know, arm covering, long floral dresses? Because that's what she's wearing today and that's what she wants to be wearing and that's what everyone's wearing. Or do we think about how to make her the showstopper or the conversation starter at a party? And so that's the constant push and pull for us. And it's fun. I mean, it's the tension. It's why I do this, and it's how I've always enjoyed being a merchant, is having that tension with design. If you're an experienced pet owner, you already know that having a pet is 25% belly rubs, 25% yelling, Drop it. And 50% groaning at the bill from every pet visit. Which is why Lemonade pet insurance is tailor made for your pet and can save you up to 90% on vet bills. It can help cover checkups, emergencies, diagnostics, basically all the stuff that makes your bank account get nervous. Claims are filed super easily through the Lemonade app, and half get settled instantly. Get a'@lemonade.com pet and they'll help cover the vet bill for whatever your pet swallowed after you yelled, drop it. New fall arrivals are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. Get ready to save big with up to 60 60% off. Vince, Kurt, Geiger, London and more. How did I not know Rack has Adidas? Cause there's always something new. Join the Nordy Club at Nordstrom Rack to unlock exclusive discounts on your favorite brands. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, get an extra 5% off every rack purchase with a Nordstrom credit card.

[A]

Great brands, great prices.

[B]

That's why you Rack.

[A]

Do you think there has been any, any change in the way you use Data in the 25, 30 or 30 years you've been in this business? Like, because to me, from the outside, the data does not give any more information than it did when you were just calling the store and saying what sold. Today, I don't see a world where the AI is predictive in a way that helps any of this stuff. But I'm. Do you feel like the data has helped. Helps more than it used to in terms of your assortment and how much you're going to buy?

[B]

In terms of our assortment, listen, it certainly helps us get more targeted. Like I said, 20 years ago, the business was just way less dimensional. And so now it absolutely helps. When we think about the digital side of the business and how we spend, our media spend and all of that. Very important. In terms of the customer, it's good to know. It's. To me, it's like a store visit on steroids. And you have to take it that way and you can't take it literally. Yes. And honestly, because we used to, 20 years ago, I used to go out to stores all the time because of how much the business has changed and how dynamic and dimensional it's gotten. It's not as easy to do that. You also don't have as many stores as you used to. So you get your insights in a different way. But no matter where you get your insights from, you cannot use it only as your only sort of source of truth. And it's dangerous, to be honest. The analysis paralysis that can happen, that then you forget to make a heroic investment.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You have to step back, you have to let things. You have to use your gut to move her or him forward. Data will never replace your gut. So I'm a believer in using the information you have, but I also am a believer that you can be suffocated by the data if you have too much.

[A]

Yes. So how did you. And we can get out of the weeds in a minute, but with Olympia and Brendan, I remember when they first both started to develop their pov and I was like, do they. Can they live? I question whether they could Sort of live next to each other because the point of view isn't completely disjointed, but it's not exactly the same, and somehow you were able to balance it. So what they do works together. And that. That you did give J. Crew a new visual identity in many ways. How did you figure that out? They both seem like very nice people, so I'm sure that helps a little bit. But they're still creative people, and creative people have a lot of opinions. And also, you have all these teams telling you to do. How are you able to sort of calibrate it?

[B]

It's been a journey, for sure. I think it goes back to what I was talking about before, in that J. Crew has these different generations and a few different generations that were really good. It's interesting. The Brendan's reference point, and he would say this to you, is really from those origin days of the 80s and when he grew up ordering J. Crew and knowing J. Crew, and those references really are where he draws from. And that's been super important for us to make sure we stay rooted in that. And it also happens to be really important right now in the time we're living is that heritage. And that nostalgia piece is really. We're really fortunate to have that in our brand. But at the same time, you know, Olympia and also women in general don't. It's always gonna be more of a mashup in classic with what's happening out there. And, you know, J. Crew, we're fortunate that we're not trend, but we have to be relevant and on trend. And I think that Olympia's take has always been rooted in our history, but pushes things to feel a little bit more evolved, sometimes more of a mashup. A good example is so spoiler alert, we're doing this. I don't even know if I can talk about. We're celebrating an iconic style, the roll neck, next week.

[A]

Okay, cool. Great.

[B]

I think at this point, no one's gonna copy us.

[A]

No, I think. Well, let's just. At one point, we need to talk about the fact that the luxury brands are copying you right now, which is awesome. Um, but anyway, hence Martha wearing the roll necklace.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Right. And Martha was wearing the 2025 roll neck. So we were in my conference room, I don't know, six or seven months ago, and we were talking about this roll neck, and we were having a moment with the roll neck in general. It had a lot of heat. We all love the roll neck. We've used it. And Olympia's used it before. She did this incredible little collab a while ago with homegirls. And she did these little. On the men's roll neck. And obviously all the cool girls wear the men's roll neck. And it looks great. But we had this meeting where Brenda and Olympia were there and Julia and my merchants, and we had a moment where if we wanna make this big, don't we need an evolved one for women's that doesn't look lame, still has the same vibe and energy and cool girl factor, but has. Feels a little bit more contemporary.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And because I. So I did the. I put it. I said, because you guys, like, I'm not the cool girl. And I put it on. I'm like, kind of not that cool. I look okay, but I'm not wearing this to work. I'm not, you know. And so we redesigned or we designed the women's. The 20, 25 roll neck in that meeting. And that's now out. It's terrific. And both are terrific. And so that's sort of how we connect the generations. We have a lot of those connecting conversations. But there are times where, you know, men and women don't want to dress the same, right?

[A]

No, it's complicated. Because there is a thing that I'm really attracted to menswear, but I don't want to buy men's clothes. And because they don't like charvet, I usually buy the women's shirts, which all the cool girls buy the men's shirts. And I have a couple. But, like, usually I buy the women's shirts. Cause they fit a little bit better. And so there is that. To be able to figure that out is really, really interesting.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. It takes a lot of style oftentimes to pull off menswear. And it often takes a lot of alterations for some of us.

[A]

Yes. So tell me, how do you feel about the fact that Dior and Celine and all these big, big luxury houses, There was an outfit that. And I think, like, honestly, if you asked Jonathan Anderson if he loves J. Crew, he would say yes. Like, I think it's. It's in the same way that a great high street brand can pay homage to designer label. I think his first collection for J. Crew, I mean, for Dior, was very much paying homage to J. Crew. In particular, of all the preppy brands, it felt. It felt. And there's a. Some actor. I really need. I've only got. I need to have seven to eight hours of sleep. I've only had six. Wore it on the red Carpet. And it really did just look like some version of it. But how does that feel for you? What do you think that says about what's happening in the culture that this look that is. I'm not saying J. Crew is not the only one. That is the only one, but is a big part of the movement is becoming something that is, like. It's all. It's a. It's a form of streetwear going to the Runway. And we've seen it in so many interviews. There was the merch movement. There was in the 90s grunge. But, like, now it's. It's this, like, quote unquote, preppy. And I'm just curious how. Why you think this is happening right now.

[B]

Okay, well, first of all, to answer your question, what did you think of. Oh, my gosh, Lauren, we were dying. I mean, you can. I mean, the amount of, you know, traffic on our DMs, back and forth to each other, it was. It was really fun. And, you know, I think that it. It's great because it's also, I think, a testament to where we've gotten to. You know, I think we just wanted to think bigger when I started. We've always. You know, I think the fact that we are a reference is a testament to everything that we've done in our past and everything we're doing today. And we just. What's exciting is now with everything going on, like you're saying, we get to really just lean into who we are and have a lot of fun with it. I mean, that is the house you are sitting in. You are sitting in, you know, an Oxford stripe couch. It's just, you know, there's a cashmere room next door with a cashmere beautiful blanket. It's. We get to really celebrate who we are. And it feels. I mean, the time is so right. It just is super energizing.

[A]

It does just feel really fun and good. And there isn't a lot of that in fashion right now at any price point, because the business is very, very hard. So you are owned by Anchorage, which is an investment firm. Eventually, they will want to sell the business. Business you are in the middle of. You. It's a brand that's sold at the mall. You. You're part of the. Any of your peers. You. You. They are interviewed for ink or whatever. Asks about discounting all the time. Why is there so much. There's always going to be. The discounting is not going to go away. That's not going to go away. You have the tariffs. You have the fact that like consumer inflation. I went to Erewhon and even me, who never looks at any. The price of anything because I'm insane, was like, I can't shop. I can't go to Erewhon anymore. I hadn't been in like a year and it was so expensive. How are you sort of dealing with all that in the middle of, like having this cool space in the Bowery where you're gonna have customers here shopping custom cashmere and merch and all of this stuff, like, all of these factors. What does that mean for someone who's running a business like this?

[B]

I mean, I think we just have to. To get back. Get back in the room and talk about the product. I mean, honestly, I was just. Earlier, before this, I came from an assortment review for women's in summer next year. J. Crew, and we were just. We have an incredible raffia bag collection. And even in the midst of all of this, it's priced right. It's super, super emotional. And I think that's what you have to get right. That's the balance. You have to have super emotional and you have to have priced right. And you asked, you just mentioned like all the million things. Yeah, I was.

[A]

I'm not gonna grill you on those individual things, but.

[B]

Yeah, but the truth is the how. How dynamic it is is the reason that I have stayed around. It's always different. I mean, my job. I've been here for 20ish years and every year is a new chapter. And in some years it's a different brand for me, but it's an adventure for sure.

[A]

Yeah. What's next? You. You're having. There's like. You were at madewell. I was for. We did a great story together.

[B]

We did.

[A]

Where it was like madewell is the best brand ever. It was like you were like the Gucci of the. The. The sort of. I don't know what even what you would categorize J. Crew as, but like the not expensive.

[B]

Brands we used to be called sort of the little. Little sis, cooler, younger sister. But yeah.

[A]

And the. The brand is like in transition now and needs to come out of it. Like, what are you going to do with madewell? Like, what do you think will take. Will it take. What will it take to like, get it back to that feeling of like, it was almost like your Levi's or something.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I think with madewell, it's about having the. The spirit and the quirk and the irreverence back in the. In the line and. And really Making sure we're on point on the denim as well. Yeah. Because our denim. We need to have denim that fits everyone.

[A]

I think I have an idea for someone. Oh, please. I know you have. I know Sarah's reported that you have the best person. But I have another idea for someone that you should talk to who was here last night.

[B]

For what?

[A]

For something at madewell.

[B]

Okay. You're gonna tell me also after. Oh, I really want to know.

[A]

But she was here last night, and I think she would be a good person for something.

[B]

Okay, so we have. So speaking of. There's a lot of opportunity, but, yeah, we have an opportunity for a little bit of a pivot right now. And I'm excited. I mean, first of all, you know, because we've worked. We've worked together. We've known each other a long time. I love madewell. I mean, I live in Bree. I love the brand. It is. And it's so beloved still. It really is. And that business. I mean, those stores, they're just. They're. It's a good business. It's a really, really good business. And so there is a lot of love. There's a lot of loyalty, and we have just a lot of opportunity to. To, I think, get the energy back, I'd say in the line. We have an incredible team there. So Steven Cataran is the head of design creative director there. I don't know if you know Stephen.

[A]

I haven't met him yet.

[B]

You need to meet him. He's lovely.

[A]

I will love.

[B]

And we have Laura, who is our head of brand marketing and creative, who is also really incredible, a great merchandising team. So the team in there is really, really good, and I think that I'm leaning in a little bit more and honestly, really enjoying it. And we. We have a lot of good stuff coming up, but I'm always up for hearing an idea.

[A]

Yeah, I. I just.

[B]

I love.

[A]

And I already are doing something with.

[B]

Okay, well, you never know. Yeah.

[A]

If it happens, I will write about it. In line, please.

[B]

Yeah, you can take. You can take responsibility. Thank you.

[A]

Finally, for J. Crews. So every business I'm looking at now is. I think that you mentioned the business. So much more complex and dynamic now. The offline component is obviously important, but it's changing. And there are. You have a lot of foot traffic in your stores. I'm sure you're every day looking at the other ones, and you're like. Like, thank God I have so much foot traffic in my stores. But the way people engage with stores is Different. Like the next few years. What do you think you need to do to sort of evolve J. Crew in the right direction from the sort of more holistic perspective?

[B]

Yeah. Stores are critically important, honestly, because they're different than they were five years ago, where you would just drop into the store to grab your. Whatever, your chino, your T shirt. And online it was. We always used to just put everything good online. And it was. It was. Online was always the best representation of the brand, the store. Today, to get people into your store, you have to have all the good stuff. You have to be your best self in the stores, and they have to really show up well for the brand. So we just opened, actually, a couple weeks ago. Oh, it's so good. I don't know if you'll ever go to Boston, but we opened a flagship on Newbury Street.

[A]

I went to school in Boston.

[B]

Oh, you did?

[A]

I don't. I went to Emerson.

[B]

Oh, okay. I went to bc.

[A]

Oh, I figured when you said that.

[B]

You worked in Chestnut Hill.

[A]

Chestnut Hill, yeah. Yeah. So I know Newberry street very well.

[B]

Yeah. So we have an incredible space. And it really reflects, I think, that what the J. Crews you're seeing here. But in a retail version, it's incredible. And it has, you know, men's, women's, and kids, the whole thing. And it's a nice sort of mix of, honestly, what I. Where I bought my original interview suit in Chestnut Hill Mall. Some of the pieces of feelings of that store, some of the cherry feelings mixed with some of the more modern feelings. I think you have to bring it in stores, and that's hard for retailers because a lot of retailers have a lot of stores. It's a big investment, and so you have to do it really deliberately and thoughtfully. But stores are so important, and so we're getting really deliberate shoppers who are coming in and wanting to shop and have an experience. And I don't mean like an experience. I mean just a good experience of shopping and buying and all of that and just leaning into that. And, yeah, we still. I mean, we still get the best stories from the store, the most information from the stores, and, yeah, they're critical for us.

[A]

One final question. Yes, this is you. You know, I. I could. I don't know off the top of my head how much you have in revenue. And you don't disclose numbers. You're a private company. Lucky for you. I can't remember right now. I'm sure I could find it out. But would you want to run a bigger company than this? Because it's a pretty big company, but it's, it's not so big that it's. I feel like when stuff gets, it's hard, harder when it's big to make it fun.

[B]

Here's what I will say. I will say that like I said before, I think our brand is so much bigger than our business and we still have so much opportunity to grow into that. And like you said, you have to accept the dynamics of how to run a business today. But as long as you protect that brand while you're doing that, I actually think it can be fun. Libby, thank you so much. Thank you. This was really good. It was really fun.

[A]

You were awesome.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.

[B]

And Doug Limu and I.

[A]

Always tell you to customize your car.

[B]

Insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. But now we want you to feel it. Cue the emu music. Limu.

[A]

Save yourself money today. Increase your wealth, Customize ice and save.

[B]

We see that may have been too much feeling. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Ferry underwritten by.

[A]

Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates.

[B]

Excludes Massachusetts.