The Timmy-Kylie Discourse and Jonathan Anderson’s Big Year

Summary

Podcast Summary: Fashion People — "The Timmy-Kylie Discourse and Jonathan Anderson’s Big Year"

Host: Lauren Sherman
Guest: Tallulah Harlick (stylist, consultant, founder of Silva)
Release Date: December 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Fashion People dives into the biggest inside conversations in fashion as 2025 draws to a close. Lauren Sherman and guest Tallulah Harlick reflect on Jonathan Anderson’s standout year, the evolving direction at Versace, the cultural spectacle of Timothée Chalamet and Kylie Jenner, the ongoing shakeup of generational power in fashion, and the intersection of beauty/wellness with apparel in Silva, Harlick’s own new brand. The hosts bring a blend of sharp industry analysis and playful, candid commentary—offering listeners not just reporting, but the kind of real talk that happens behind the scenes in fashion circles.

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Key Topics & Takeaways

1. Jonathan Anderson’s Banner Year

[03:06–12:34]

• London’s New J.W. Anderson Store

  • Anderson’s new store on Pimlico Road is seen as a brilliant move by Harlick, representing a clever interior-focused luxury retail strategy.
  • Tallulah Harlick: “The fact that he’s marching into every section of our lifestyle and lives fills me with deep happiness.” [03:11]
  • The concept blurs fashion, lifestyle, and curated objects, creating an upmarket, British-centric vision of luxury.

• Brand Transformation & Lifestyle Curation

  • Anderson is moving from categorically selling ‘entry designer’ goods to curating a holistic lifestyle—a long game that’s “nice that it’s not just clothes and shoes.” [05:48]
  • The focus is on UK/Ireland-made goods, supporting craftsmanship post-Brexit, and bringing luxury back to London.
  • Lauren Sherman references a “very insidery menswear guy” DMing about a sweater, illustrating Anderson’s growing cross-gender, cross-national appeal. [05:48]

• Anderson as Multidisciplinary Culture-Maker

  • Beyond fashion, Anderson’s collaborations with filmmakers (e.g., Adam Curtis) are praised:
    “He is the culture maker.” —Sherman [07:33]
  • Harlick admires Anderson’s earthy sensibility:
    “He grew up on a farm in Ireland...he knows how to pull a carrot from the ground.” [08:20]

2. Commercial vs. Cerebral Luxury & The Vulgarity Debate

[09:37–13:49]

• Wrestling with Commercialism at Dior

  • Sherman and Harlick discuss Anderson’s work at Dior, balancing ‘cerebral’ and ‘vulgar’ traditions in luxury.
  • Notable quote (Karl Lagerfeld, as read by Sherman, 13:11):
    “Vulgarity is not disturbing while people are young. But as years pass, people start to do things they shouldn't.”
  • Gianni Versace: “Vulgarity doesn’t exist. It’s an attitude. Stupidity is vulgar.”

• Personal/Emotional Design

  • Anderson’s designs often provoke discomfort, pushing boundaries on what’s considered desirable.
    “It can be questioning or perhaps a little uncomfortable at first glance...but in the end, they completely land within desirability.” —Tallulah [11:23]

3. The Timothée Chalamet & Kylie Jenner Discourse

[14:03–18:51]

• Fashion Couples in Pop Culture
  • Sherman and Harlick debrief the internet-shaking appearance of Chalamet and Jenner in matching Chrome Hearts outfits.
  • Tallulah’s reaction: "Fucking horrible. I mean, it's fucking hideous." [14:05, 14:20]
  • They debate: Is the relationship strategic or just authentically weird? Both doubt it's a calculated PR move.
  • Sherman laments the lack of “preppy Timmy”:
    “I want preppy Timmy...preppy Timmy with like pared back Kylie is a beautiful situation for me.” [16:07]
  • Reflection on how hyper-scrutinized celebrity couples (“Taylor Swift and Jason Kelce,” etc.) shape fashion narratives in real time, unlike the intermittent headlines of earlier eras.

4. Generational Shifts, Millennial Ascendancy, & Authority

[20:56–25:41]

• Millennials Taking Charge
  • Harlick is excited that younger creative directors (in their early 40s) are finally leading fashion's top houses:
    “Let’s go, millennials, let’s go. I am so sick...of Gen X’s in the fashion industry who’ve taken grip and hold for way too long.” [20:56]
  • Sherman points out both the need for change-oriented mindsets, regardless of age, and Marc Jacobs as an example of longevity through flexibility:
    “That is the theme of 2026: Let’s fucking go.” [25:41]

5. Inside Track: Versace's Future & the Value of Merchandising

[26:14–34:41]

• Reporting on Versace

  • Sherman teases her upcoming detailed reporting on Versace’s next creative director—naming Peter Mulier (Alaïa, ex-Raf Simons) as the likely candidate.
    “If Peter were to go to Versace...he would also be great at Versace because he is truly one of the...big talent[s] of that generation.” [27:44]

• The Unsung Role of Merchandising

  • Harlick and Sherman stress how vital a head of merchandising is to a brand’s commercial success—citing Gucci’s rise under Alessandro Michele and his chief merchant Jacopo Venturini as a model example.
    “You live and die by your head of merchandising.” —Tallulah [29:50]
  • They delve into how Mulier transformed Alaïa’s commercial viability with cult accessories and how that sets a precedent for his move to Versace.

6. Women in Ties: A Trend Dissected

[36:29–39:41]

• Divided on Women Wearing Ties
  • Prompted by a friend’s outfit, Sherman asks why she struggles with women in ties. Harlick agrees:
    “I think I tend to agree with you...editorially it can make a lot of sense...but I’m not as convinced out and about in it.” [36:29–37:53]
  • They recall cultural moments (Julia Roberts in Armani, Cat Power, ‘90s stylist tie obsessions), but mostly find the look ‘costumey’ or too tied to fleeting trends.

7. Brand Spotlight: Silva and the Skin–Wellness Apparel Category

[42:24–49:52]

• What is Silva?

  • Harlick introduces her new brand Silva, sitting at the intersection of beauty, wellness, and fashion.
  • The brand focuses on skin-friendly underpinnings made from scientifically advantageous materials (seaweed from Iceland, Austrian wood cellulose), intended to be worn beneath luxury clothing or for everyday wellness.
  • Tallulah: “Skin barrier is not just your face and your neck. Your skin is 70% across the rest of your body...how could that be something where a supplementary choice within your wardrobe could happen?” [43:22]

• The Return of Stirrup Leggings & Material Innovation

  • Sherman observes that stirrup leggings feel timely and that consumers are increasingly discerning about performance fabrics—citing the example of Uniqlo’s HeatTech.
  • Both hosts discuss how apparel’s value now lies in specificity, function, and health.

• Upcoming Silva Collections

  • Harlick reveals plans to expand into underwear, bras, and additional product categories, with events and retail partnerships to come in 2026.

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Standout Quotes & Moments

• On Jonathan Anderson’s “Rural” Sensibility:
  “He knows how to kind of pull a carrot from the ground and what a seasonal green leaf is going to taste like...that through line of yarn and literally a quality of life.” —Tallulah Harlick [08:20]

• On Millennial Invasion of Fashion Leadership:
  “Let’s go, millennials, let’s go. I am so sick...of the Gen X’s in the fashion industry who’ve taken grip and hold for way too long...most of them haven’t had an original idea since 2014.” —Tallulah Harlick [20:56]

• On Timothée & Kylie’s Outfits:
  “Fucking horrible. I mean, it’s fucking hideous.” —Tallulah Harlick [14:05, 14:20]

• On the Value of Merchandising:
  “You live and die by your head of merchandising.” —Tallulah Harlick [29:50]

• On Modern Fashion’s Need for Change:
  “There are people who are 75 who can write a Substack and everyone wants to read it because they understand change and they understand, like, being in the moment. Then there are people who are 25 who don’t understand at all.” —Lauren Sherman [23:40]

• On Vulgarity (Lagerfeld & Versace, via 1993 Bazaar):
  “Vulgarity doesn’t exist. It’s an attitude. Stupidity is vulgar.” —Gianni Versace (as recounted by Sherman) [13:11]

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Segment Timestamps

• Jonathan Anderson/J.W. Anderson Store: [03:06–09:37]
• Cerebral vs. Commercial at Dior & Vulgarity: [09:37–13:49]
• Timmy & Kylie Discourse: [14:03–18:51]
• Generational Shifts & Millennials in Fashion: [20:56–25:41]
• Versace, Merchandising, Peter Mulier: [26:14–34:41]
• Women in Ties: [36:29–39:41]
• Silva Brand Introduction & Fashion-Tech/Wellness: [42:24–49:52]

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Tone & Language

The whole conversation is playful, candid, and rich in industry gossip. Both Sherman and Harlick blend respect for fashion as high culture with irreverent humor and a willingness to call out the industry’s failings and quirks. The tone is conversational with frequent asides, inside references, and metaphors that tie fashion’s business machinations to its cultural cachet.

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For more reporting referenced throughout the episode, Puck’s Line Sheet by Lauren Sherman is recommended, especially for future in-depth takes on Versace and industry M&A.

Transcript

[Guillermo del Toro (voiceover or narrator)]

My maker told his tale, and I will tell you mine. The New York Times raves. Frankenstein is the movie Guillermo del Toro was born to make, to be lost.

[Lauren Sherman]

And to be found.

[Guillermo del Toro (voiceover or narrator)]

That is the lifespan of love. Now nominated for 11 Critics Choice Awards and five Golden Globe Awards, including Best Director, Guillermo del Toro and the Best Picture of the year, I Am Not Something, I Am Someone Frankenstein for your consideration. Now playing in select theaters and on Netflix. Rated R Under 17 not admitted without.

[Lauren Sherman]

Adult At Optum, we're transforming the pharmacy system, bringing real time pricing, transparency and saving consumers over a billion dollars last year, serving 62 million Americans. We understand behind every prescription is a person. Visit optum.com redefinerx to learn more. Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's fashion and beauty memo line sheet in today. With me on the show is Tallulah Harlick, stylist, consultant and founder of Silva. We're talking Jonathan Anderson's banner year, the future of Versace, Timothy and Kylie, women in ties, and so much more. Happy Tuesday everyone. I hope you had a great weekend. I am in Los Angeles for the foreseeable future. I'm hosting a Puck dinner tonight and Mr. Chows in Beverly Hills with Glam Squad. It's a fantastic group and I'm excited to get dressed up and have a smart conversation. Definitely more conversation than get dressed up. Although I have so many clothes it's insane. I don't have, I mean, I go out like twice a week here. I just wear jeans and sweatshirts. It's fine. I'm gonna find a good outfit for this. More from me on the dinner later this week. In Line Sheet News Monday was chock full. I have lots of new reporting on the future of Versace, Sex Global and Big Congr. To Elizabeth Vondergoltz, an early Fashion People guest on her new gig as chief revenue officer of Poshmark. So Elizabeth, as many of you know, has worked everywhere in multi brand retail from Bergdorf to Matches to Farfetch'd Annette A. Porte, Arnetta Porter. And the fact that she chose a resale platform for the next thing is really telling because honestly, like, where is she gonna work? Because all these places are falling apart at this point. Not all of them, but a lot of them, unfortunately. And one of the reasons for that, I would say is that resale is coming for everyone and retailers alike need to figure out how to make it a part of their business plan. Anyway, let's get going with Tallulah. This was a very fun conversation and made me want to hop on a plane to London before the holidays. But I endeavor to stay on US soil for this time. Tallulah Harlick. Welcome to Fashion People.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Ugh. I'm happy to be here.

[Lauren Sherman]

How are you doing? How was your weekend?

[Tallulah Harlick]

Everything's good. It's exciting. It's not ending. Nothing is stopping before the end of the year. It just all keeps pummeling forward at speed.

[Lauren Sherman]

Did you check out the new J.W. anderson store on Pimlico Road?

[Tallulah Harlick]

That's where I need to get to because the big reveal is oh, so exciting. And the fact that he's marching into every section of our lifestyle and lives fills me with deep happiness. I think that the fact that it's in this kind of interior centre sector of London that's so coveted is incredibly. Smart move. Can't wait to go. His curation is just so brilliant.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I went to the store in Milan and it's quite small and it's on, it's on. It's on the big, like off the big shopping street, but across from the little Drees store. And it's just a really nice shop. But there were so many tiny little beautiful things that cost a lot of money that I wanted like Wedgwood cups or whatever. But what do you think about this? This idea of like transforming that brand? Because that kind of brand, J.W. anderson, which is a designer brand, but yeah, I guess you would call it like entry designer. So it's expensive. It's not crazy expensive and there is a real customer for that. But from my perspective on the business analysis side, it's not an easy thing to sort of manage because you're very much. It's predicated on trend. So if the loafer bag does really well, you have a great two years and then how do you fill the next two years? After the loafer bag sort of slows, do the sales slow down, which is inevitable. It doesn't matter how good something is. And it seems like what they've decided is let's sort of erase. Erase the blackboard. We're still going to have accessories, we're still going to have fashion, but make this more about curating life. And hopefully that lifestyle element will bring people in and then they'll, you know, happen to buy a bag or shoe or what have you.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Totally. And I think the kind of genius of being able to go there and buy a spade or a sort of pot of honey with incredibly chic Houghton hall bees or a chair or a Christmas decoration or anything that's kind of within the realm thematically and I think really seasonally as well. It's sort of a kind of the most sort of upmarket way of having the chicest ever grocer where you get the kind of beautiful seasonal supply chain of like peaches in the summer or whatever. It's that kind of thing. But in object.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I. They posted. He posted. Jonathan posted like a bunch of vignettes from the store and there was one with a chair with a Pringle of Scot litten argyle in the perfect like primary colors and then a pair of green slippers. And I was just like, this is the perfect. And. And a very, very insidery menswear guy dmed me who is like the most, the. The most insidery of like American preppy menswear guys and was like, should I get that sweater? And I thought, oh, he really? And, and he also loves Jonathan's whole Dior preppy Bruce Weber thing. But it was, it was a sort of for me like the authorities. Authority endorsing it. They're just really nailing it. And I'm sure it's because the team there, they've been there forever and he's so close to them. But it's an interesting concept and it's nice that he's being given the space to develop it because 10 years from now this might be a great business. Right now they're working it out and it's nice. It's so nice that it's not just clothes and shoes.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Totally. And it's bringing this kind of incredible lifestyle of luxury back to London in the way that we have asprey and a sort of silver picture frame. But like this is all the kind of silversmiths of the UK in the way of like everything is made in Ireland, made in Scotland, made in England that Jonathan's really putting and you know, planting on the product. And it's brilliant. He's bringing luxury to the UK in the way that luxury sort of got posted out to Europe.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Especially post Brexit and interesting. He's always. There's always another layer. So there was a big. We were talking before we started, there was this big Q and A in WWD this week with Jonathan, Newsmaker of the year. Upon reflection, what do you think about what he's been through this year and how it's all shaking out? And it's not just Dior, it's not just J.W. anderson. It's also all these movies. He's doing so much. He really is like the Culture. He's making films with Adam Curtis. He is the culture maker. I'm like the number one American fan of Adam Curtis. So I was like, oh my God, it's so good.

[Tallulah Harlick]

It's unbelievable. The way he can touch and kind of reconceptualize and realign and recurate and come up with his own originality and thought is unbelievably brilliant. And to me, he's just. I'm so happy to see that somebody with such fantastic taste. And I think another way in which I love him is there's something incredibly kind of kinetic and almost rural about him. Of course, he grew up in a farm in Ireland and there is that kind of. He knows how to kind of pull a carrot from the ground and what a seasonal green leaf is going to taste like. And that kind of. The fact that someone like that is at a big brand like Dior is incredible to me because, you know, there have been people I will not name names who have been much more Liberace and vulgar. And Jonathan is incredibly Chicago and has really a kind of like a T. An amazing sensibility of kind of, I think quality the land, touch that through line of yarn and literally a quality of life. Is amazing that he's across so many cultural initiatives.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's funny, I was looking at this Harper's Bazaar from. I bought in New York from. I think it was 93 or 94. It was Liz Till Tilbarus era, but there was an interview with Karl Lagerfeld and Gianni Versace and they were talking about vulgarity, which was very. It's very interesting. Maybe I will pull it up and quote it. But the question, the thing that's interesting about Dior in particular is when you are a cerebral person who can. Can do kind of really commercial, straightforward marketing and understands how to like get to the customer from a marketing perspective. But Runway wise is not a straightforward designer. And when. When the last 10 years of luxury have been all about or what people call luxury or the. That group of brands has been about being vulgar. And to move back to something that is more you considered, I guess is the question like. It's interesting to see him wrestle with. With that because that's what I feel like. The Runway, which. The wi. The men's I was obsessed with, I loved it. The women's I had a harder time with. Not because I thought it was bad, but because I did it made me not feel good. And I think like when you're at that level, when it's like been pure Commercial for so long and true and truly vulgar. Like, how do you. Obviously, you know a lot about that house and. And its different iterations and its history. How do you think he. Was he successful in wrestling with that?

[Tallulah Harlick]

I think he's always. He's always dropped a thought that has been maybe challenging for people to reconsider a shape or a silhouette or a way of being. I think him and Benjamin challenge that with us. And to me, almost in the way, if we think of how he aligns it with his VIP or within campaign and actually the life that's built around it and the coordination of those that he works with seems to assemble it so that at the end of the day it always lands and makes sense. It can be questioning or perhaps a little uncomfortable at first glance of what am I. How do I. How do I take this on? How do I embody this? But from what? All of the things that happened in the early days of J.W. anderson into things that were maybe challenging or challenging ideas through Loewe, really, in the end, they completely land within desirability. Definitely.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I would. I'm thinking about this sweater that I had for. Or a jumper that I had from like probably his first or second women's collection that was a navy sweater with ribbon, sort of cross hatch weaving on the front. And then it had a little yellow latex collar, which is kind of gross and vulgar in a way, but it was like very preppy and. And you. Did you see it? No one would think like, oh, she's wearing a latex collar. And it from that time, which is. That's like 2011, 2012. Okay, here are the quotes from Carl and Gianni Versace about vulgarity. Both of you have been accused of vulgarity. Karl Lagerfeld says vulgarity is not disturbing while people are young. But as the years pass, people start to do things that they shouldn't. For example, a certain physical aggressiveness is an older person in an older person's style. Dress is vulgar, in my opinion. And Gianni Versace says vulgarity doesn't exist. It's an attitude. Stupidity is vulgar. But a woman who dresses badly but is intelligent and happy to be the way she is is not vulgar. I agree with that. Vulgarity is for people who are frightened, not for us. Good answers.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Good, good answers.

[Lauren Sherman]

I know. I wish there were Q&As like that @ magazines today on the subject of vulgarity. Did you see Timothee Chalamet and Kylie Jenner's matching crumb heart?

[Tallulah Harlick]

Yes. Can I swear for.

[Lauren Sherman]

Emphasis?

[Tallulah Harlick]

Please. Fucking horrible. And I really like Jesse Joe.

[Lauren Sherman]

Stark. Yeah, I like them too. I love that family. They're really cool. I just think they looked so.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Hideous. I mean, it's fucking hideous.

[Lauren Sherman]

No. So the question is, I had this conversation with so many people last week. Why are they together? Because they are really.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Together.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Which I wrote this. I was like, I'm allowed to talk about this. Even though this is not some. You know where. It's not some. I'm not Willa Bennett Publishing Cosmo. If I was, I'd be writing an entire essay about why these people are attracted to each other. But they're clearly using each other as well. In some ways. I don't think it's strategic. I think he is a kid who grew up in Hell's Kitchen in artist housing, and he is dating a hot girl from Calabasas who. Like, my personal thing is when someone. And I live in la, so I see this all the time when someone is that augmented, I don't understand how someone. How it can be attractive not only on a, like, physical perspective, but also just from an image perspective. I find it, like, really hard to take. But the outfits together, it's such an interesting. Like, what is he.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Thinking? They're having their own David and Victoria Beckham in purple.

[Lauren Sherman]

Moment. I guess so. It's just. It's just. It feels like everyone is so self aware today. Yeah. That you would know that it would. It doesn't look like.

[Tallulah Harlick]

That. Imagine if Chris Black styled.

[Lauren Sherman]

Him. Chris Black would just be like, here's some penny.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Loafers. I know that it would be good. Come on. I need. I want preppy.

[Lauren Sherman]

Time. I.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Agree. I want preppy.

[Lauren Sherman]

Time. I want preppy Timmy.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Too. I so want preppy Timmy. And the thing is, is, like preppy Timmy with, like, paired back. Kylie is a beautiful situation for me. She's. She's gorgeous. She's so beautiful. My favorite is Kim without makeup a couple of weeks ago when she released like the 8 minute video on her Instagram when she hadn't got through the baby bar again. And there was this, this crying, which I reposted on my stories for a second, which got loads of laughs. But to me, Kim, makeup, look makeupless. Sorry. Is unbelievably beautiful. Like, she's so crazy gorgeous. And I just love Stripped Back Kim and Stripped Back Kylie is just kind of. I love it, love it. And that's how I want to see.

[Lauren Sherman]

Them. Yeah. I wonder how they will. The interesting thing about that family is I've written probably 15 times that they've peaked and they never do. I don't think it's just interesting the way people have positioned this relationship as being, quote, unquote, strategic. I don't think that. That. And because the Jenners are wearing the Marty supreme jacket, I actually don't think it is. I think.

[Tallulah Harlick]

It'S. No, I think they're having a really hot time.

[Lauren Sherman]

Together. You can tell exactly, exactly whether it's. And it's just an interesting. When someone like that is thinking about his career and life, I also think he is trying to live his life as authentically as he can. And his true self is wearing goofy shit like that. Like, it just is. He's so into it and he loves it. And he. And I agree. I would love to preppy Timothy and, you know, I much rather him be in the vein of Josh o', Connor, of that sort of look, but that is not who he is. And it's. It's just an interesting. These couples, now, if you think of Taylor Swift and Jason Kelce, there are a set of them that are just so watchable and so every single thing, every single minute is scrutinized and obsessed over. And I find it fascinating. It's because you're so. It's not like when Britney and Justin or David and Victoria wore these matching outfits and they were in the paper for two weeks and then you're done and they come up every six years or whatever. It's like constant. And so it's just interesting to think about how they don't care and keep.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Going. I mean, the other thing that's quite. That's funny that's happening at the moment with Dior and Chanel is this Montague Capulet thing of. If you think about it, you've got ASAP at Chanel, but Rihanna at Dior, you've got kind of Lily Rose there, but at chanel, her partner, 070 Jake. A deal. Like, you've got these Montague Capulets switching through. You've got. You've got Nicole Kidman's daughter presenting Jonathan Anderson the Designer of the Year Award at the British Fashion Awards. But then Nicole is resigned through contract at Chanel. It's like the playthrough of different family or partner members at different houses is.

[Lauren Sherman]

Funny. And those two brands. The amazing thing for me about LVMH is this. They pick a brand that they want to compete against, and they work for years and years and years and years to sort of emulate, but then also deviate and in some ways surpass and, you know, Dior to Chanel, Louis Vuitton to Hermes. Another is Tiffany to Cartier, which is an earlier. Like, they're in. That's still. They're still working towards that. And they may never surpass them in sales or in sort of being in the center of people's minds, but it is an amazing thing to watch unfold for the past 20 years. And, yeah, the Dior thing is, it's been really fun. I mean, when we look back, I'm doing an end of year wrap up on the 29th. Everybody should tune in. But when we look back, like, this is such a fun time to be in fashion and writing about fashion and styling. Fashion and being at the center of it, because all these guys are also only 43 years old or 42 or.

[Tallulah Harlick]

41. This is like green subway take of like, let's go, millennials, let's go. I am so sick. I'm so unbelievably bored and sick of the Gen X's in the fashion industry who've taken grip and hold for way too long and only employ one another and their friends because they can talk about how they were at a fashion show in 2001, and I was at school, and it's like, literally, I. It just. It drives me nuts. And most of them haven't had an original idea since 2014. And it's like, get out of the way. The millennials are coming through to take the authority positions. Let's.

[Lauren Sherman]

Go. It's true. I think A very smart CEO once told me, Most designers have a good 10 years of creativity. And I think there are exceptions to this rule for sure. Marc Jacobs is a good one, but there are many. But, like, this is our prime. This is the time to make money. It's the time to be creative. It's the time to do amazing things. And I love that they all got the chance and are being empowered because it is so fun to see this all unfold. And also it's so fun to watch it on Instagram, to be able to see Mattieu and Jonathan and what they post on Instagram and just like, the incremental imagery of the things they're doing. And who knows, maybe they have whole teams doing it. It feels like they're the ones doing it, but in those two cases, at least. But it's just been so fun to see it all sort of unfold. And it's gonna be the next 10.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Years. Amazing. I'm, like, unbelievably excited about it. And I think because there it did feel that there was a real bottleneck of creativity and something that it just wasn't getting through. And a lot of people, when I say this, they're like, but what about your mom? And I'm like, my mom's a consultant. And that's how I think it should be. There's somebody else who's the stylist. There's somebody else who has that position. She's a consultant. Add that experience and words of wisdom at the table. Absolutely. That's key and vital. I'm all about that. But I think it's almost because I've watched her in her career in that.

[Lauren Sherman]

Way.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Yeah. You know, particularly, you know, after the age of 50 and it's. And she's 67 and still working. And I'm kind of like, that's how, you know, I want to see consultants, and I don't want to be ageist about it. I think that's wrong. And I do think there are exceptions to the rule. And I love the fact that Karl was as old as he was and still doing the work. It just. I just immensely feel that there has been too much where millennials have not been able to step into the authority positions. And now we're really seeing it. It's so exciting about Chloe Mount at Vogue, and it's like, this is it. Look how Sarah Moonbirds is owning the game. It's like, here we are. This is brilliant. Let's.

[Lauren Sherman]

Go. Yeah. I think a couple of things. One is that there's a thing about mindset. It doesn't matter how old you are, but you are willing to understand that things change. So if you are willing to understand that things change. And your mom might be comfortable being a consultant because she understands the rapid pace of change and she understands where her value lies. A lot of people don't understand where their value lies. So I think that is part of it, is that there are people who are 75 who can write a substack, and everyone wants to read it because they understand change and they understand, like, being in the moment. Then there are people who are 25 who don't understand at all. I also think the big issue with Gen X is that we're all living for much longer now, so they don't know what to do. And if you're not sort of in touch with what your. Where your value lies as a human being, you just think, I'm going to keep doing the same thing over and over again. And it's like, no, leave when the party is still going or Whatever, like, understand that. That you're. And that is a thing. Why I think Marc Jacobs still has value because he's been able to sort of let go of things where, like, the. The success of Heaven. If he was an asshole, that would have never happened, but he was like, yes, I'm going to bring in these, like, interesting young people who are obsessed with what I did in the 90s, and let's make a different kind of brand. For someone who doesn't, like, really want to be deeply involved in the business, he has the instinct to let people do what they're good at. And I think that's the thing that that is. Has been such a struggle, and it is now we have the energy, we have the ability, and it's like, let's fucking go. Everybody's, let's fucking go. That is the theme of 2026. Let's fucking.

[Guillermo del Toro (voiceover or narrator)]

Go. My makeup told his tale, and I will tell you mine. The New York Times raves. Frankenstein is the movie Guillermo del Toro was born to make, to be.

[Lauren Sherman]

Lost and to be.

[Guillermo del Toro (voiceover or narrator)]

Found. That is a Lifespan of Love. Now nominated for 11 Critics Choice Awards and five Golden Globe Awards, including Best Director, Guillermo del Toro and the Best Picture of the Year. I am not something thing. I am someone. Frankenstein, for your consideration. Now playing in select theaters and on Netflix. Rated R under 17, not admitted without.

[Lauren Sherman]

Adult. So, on this topic, I wanted to briefly chat. I have a big thing on Monday about, like, what is going to happen at Versace, and I have a bunch of reporting. We're not going to get into it here because I think there's. There's a lot going on behind the scenes, and these companies don't really want to announce anything yet, so you have to read line sheet for most of it. But look like the sort of thinking that I've heard is that Peter Mulier is probably the person who's going there. And I'm just curious. Hypothetical. And I would just like to say for the record, that in my first piece about Dario leaving, there was a person. I'm not even gonna name him here, that everybody was saying it's gonna be. And I knew that wasn't true, and I didn't even mention him. And someday I'm going to be like, see, I told you all it wasn't him. I knew it was Peter. But anyway, hypothetically, if Peter were to go to Versace and leave Alaia, which, you know, we'd love for him to be Alaia forever, but if this is what's happening, he will also be great At Versace because he is truly one of the. To me, like maybe the big talent of that generation. There's. There's probably five, but what do you think about that match hypothetically? And then also like, who would you like to see at Alaia? Where do you think Alaia needs to evolve to now, whether or not Peter is.

[Tallulah Harlick]

There? Well, I think that it connects to me in so much as Peter obviously worked with Raf and with the Prada connection and you know, the acquisition. It's sort of. I can really see a through line of muture and wrath through Prada around Versace and therefore for Peter to be incredibly well placed. And I think in terms of a seduction, the body form the way of again, brand image and campaign. Take a second for Tyrone Le Bon, who always makes images and seduction and desirability about now. He's excellent at doing that. And how we saw that through image of a liar, which now to an incredibly sexy, seductive brand like Versace makes a lot of sense. So I can really see this landing perfectly. I think. You know what was incredible? Alaia was the hit making in accessories and the hit making in the bags and the shoes that. Yes, I remember Aliyah shoes. Kind of cagey Aliyah shoe before, but. And certainly the leather of the belts and things like that. But how that grew in an enormous and an amazing appetite for. That was so well done. And. And to the degree that that can then transfer over to Versace, that would make a lot of sense for him to hypothetically be there. I also want to say, I think that it's an important moment to think the head of merchandising like these really good head of merchandise is. Should be talked about more. I know a couple, they tend to be very secret squirrel people, but they are phenomenal. You live and die to me. You live and die by your head of merchandising. Because I've seen incredible collections that then get put to. Because a head merchandiser is crap with terrible taste and it goes nowhere equally vice versa. I've seen it lift and lift off because of a head of merchandising who's unbelievable with.

[Lauren Sherman]

Product. Look at. Look at Gucci. Alessandro, Michele, Jacopo Venturini, who was his chief merchant, they tried to hide him for years. They didn't want anyone to write about him. Eventually he became the CEO of Valentino and had to leave because of, I think a lot of personal issues and was back with ALESSANDRO. But you're 100% correct. And that shoe, the thing about Alaia that is remarkable to Me is a. Sometimes I think the, like, sexy dressing thing that has been happening that women suddenly realized they had millennial women. And I fall smack into this. So it's like this complicated thing where I have to take myself out of it. But you do hear. You hear Alexa Chung talking about this too. Like, in our 20s, we were like, wearing Peter Pan collars and shit. I maybe once. It was never for me, but like, something happened where suddenly I was like, oh, I can wear a form fitting dress. That's okay. It's not like, it's not vulgar. And that all came from Peter. Like, when you go to the New York Fashion Week and you see the Runway and all the dance dresses and the sort of way that they roll around or like swirl or spiral around the body, it's all Peter. And so not only was that shoe merchandised up the wazoo to the point of, like, every single brand has many of them and it still looks good. And also the Techle bag has been a huge inspiration to be able to create a bag design at that level and not have the backing of an LVMH you're carrying and make it successful. Even Richemont is a big company. Yes. But, like, their fashion brands are not heavily funded. It is amazing. And to think about the thing that I wrote on Monday is that Versace is. I remember when Capri bought Versace and I did a call with the CEO of Capri. I don't remember who else. I remember I was in Paris and I had to do all these, like, radio things in America because it was a really big deal when they bought it. And I remember him saying that the brand recognition of Versace is like, through the roof. It's completely insane. And that was the big reason they did it, because they felt like if. If we can make any brand bigger or sell more of anything, it's this. The reality is they never. The brand, I think is smaller than when they bought it, or it's around the same size. And so this idea of this person who was behind the scenes for so long and really supporting another person's vision, but beautifully, like, I look at those old Dior and also the old Jill Sander. I mean, those Jill Sander collections are my favorite collections ever, like, for me as a consumer. And the idea that he would be given this brand that has so much goodwill. And yes, I feel bad about the Dario thing, and it sucks, but Dario's gonna get a great job and we're gonna see him somewhere else. I'm not worried about him. But but to have someone like that given this power of this brand is extremely exciting to me. And also, you know, that's the long and the short of it.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Same. I mean who then fills the place is. Is. I don't know. I mean I've always, you know, I'm a kind of. I have a gothic sensibility. Am I the kind of ultra skater boy preppy in a sort of car, heart trouser and a long sleeve old palace skater tee Or I'm sort of Morticia Adams little black jacket or something of that realm in the evening. But for me it's kind of like Martina who worked with Demna and has subsequently consulted. She was very good with the evening where she has been roving and I wonder at what point she will be placed. I also think that as we've seen, it's a certain personality that can be a creative director and take that kind of forward facing role as it stands in this environment. And I, I wonder about that. I mean, you know, closer to home I work with Michael Stewart who creates Standing Ground, the LVMH Savoir Faire prize winner. We will be doing a couture show in July in Paris next year. You know, somebody who I work with and watch Fit the body Fit the body sculpt always in the coordinates of the body. It's. It's.

[Lauren Sherman]

That. Yeah. And it is such a tricky brand and there was so much apprehension around anyone doing anything with it because it was so, it's. It was just so pure. And the fact that he was able to evolve it and make it more commercial too is remarkable. And it's, it's tricky. I'm sure maybe they're still figuring it out. We'll see, who knows. And you know, these contracts, as I always say, I caveat it could all fall apart. Especially in Italy where you can just buy the contract out which, which is cool. Like I think that's what you should be able to do anywhere. The this like putting people in prison is crazy but like in Italy you can just buy out the non compete. I think it's. That should be everywhere. Okay, I have a couple more things I want to chat with you about. I would like your opinion. I have a real issue and I've been trying to figure out how to. Cause it's come up for me a lot this week. A friend of mine is my friend Amanda who comes on here sometimes. She's wearing a floppy tie for a recorded event and there have just been like a lot of ties on people that I think are Cool. Recently I have a real issue generally and this feels extremely misogynistic and I need to unpack it and maybe you can help me with women wearing ties. Like I just don't like the way it looks but I'm. But I wonder if it's that I don't like. It's less women and more that I just think generally ties look costumey. Not always, but sometimes many times. And so I am just curious how you feel about women wearing ties and why you think I might have such an.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Issue. I mean, I think I tend to agree with you. So this may all be a bit one sided. I mean it's very sort of. I seem to remember old images of cat power in. In ties at a certain point in time, the late 90s. Katie grand always, well not always, but has been known to sort of talk about how she loved styling a tie. It's very sort of stylist of the 90s with music, folk that we go there. But yes, it has been around and of course the sort of Julia Roberts thing. And I, I do kind of wonder editorially it can make a lot of sense in this moment of someone so unbelievably gorgeous in total menswear can just be so again seductive. It's quite, you know, if you get someone who has all the components of being ultra feminine and then you dress them and, and within that moment in that frame of that light in a shot that's very sort of Arthur El Gore or whatever, it's like, oh my God, I think I need to wear a three piece suit and a tie. That's amazing. Yeah, it's kind of Arthur Elgore black and white image. It lends itself to that as an image only. Which is why I think we saw it musically for like album covers or press release stuff back in the day. I don't, I'm not as convinced out and about in it. I think in the same.

[Lauren Sherman]

Way. Yeah, I think it's funny mentioned the Julia Roberts thing because she looks so beautiful in that photo. But I hated that tie when I was six years old. I remember being like, I don't like that. Like I. It's a great suit. It's Armani. She looks incredible. Her hair looks so good. She just looks so gorgeous. But it always has been off putting to me. I said to my friend Amanda, I think a floppy tie that's a little different, that feels like a little bit more 80s slony pony type thing that I feel like a little less uncomfortable with. But it's interesting that it's just become so big now. I guess it's from Saint Laurent and him putting them on the Runway where it makes sense. Yeah, but. And it was also mostly men's. I don't know if he's ever put them on the women's.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Runway. Yeah, I don't know either. And it's. It's. I think it's. It's tough. And I don't really do that era. It was sort of like. When was it the blouse moment in sort of 2013, where we. There was a lot of this kind of, like, chiffoni blouse thing that had a bouffant sort of tie thing, and there was always this sort of ruffly neck tie piece. Do you remember.

[Lauren Sherman]

That?

[Tallulah Harlick]

Yes. That. That really got everywhere, including, you know, to sort of Topshop. And it was a sort of.

[Lauren Sherman]

Like.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Yes. Where we had gone from, like, going out top to sort of this sort of smart form. It was sort of like with a kind of pleather, because it was never real leather pencil and a sort of. Yeah, I. I find that quite complicated. And I think it's. I think. I think it's a tough look, and it. It sort of. It's hard to pull off, and it never really stays very long. If it is a trend, it's gone quite.

[Lauren Sherman]

Fast. No, it's true. We're just, like, really in the middle of it. Do you ever stop and think about how wild it is that you spend so much on rent every month and get absolutely nothing back for it? Built is the loyalty program for renters that rewards you for your biggest monthly expense. Rent. You pay your rent through Built and earn points every month. Points you can redeem towards flights, hotels, lift rides, Amazon.com purchases, fitness classes, and so much more. There are even exclusive perks from more than 45,000 local merchants. So every time you grab coffee, order dinner, or shop nearby, you're earning Built points on top of your usual cards rewards. Personally, I'd use it to take more boutique fitness classes. I especially love the ones with infrared, sauna, weights, and just way too much time. I need to chill out on the exercise. It's fun. Finally, a way to make rent feel a little less painful and a lot more rewarding. Join the loyalty program for [e-mail] fashion. That's J-O-I N B I L T.com fashion. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. You may or may not be surprised to hear that I am pro therapy. I've been using it as a tool since I was a kid and I return to it when I'm going through something in my life that needs an outside witness. I consider it preventative medicine. The problem these days is that so many therapists are not covered by insurance. The good news is that Rula is trying to solve for that. Their therapists, who are licensed professionals are covered by over 100 insurance plans and the average copay is just $15 per person. I am also very into interviewing a bunch of therapists before I choose one. Rula also makes that easy because they know that if you find the right one, you'll stick with it. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high quality therapy that's actually covered by Insurance. Visit rula.comfashion to get started. After you sign up, you'll be asked how you heard about them. Please support our show and let them know we sent you. That's r u l a.com fashion. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. So the final thing I wanted to talk to you about is Silva, which I found out about via the one and only Plump Sykes. Her substack is amazing. Speaking of a Gen X who knows what she's.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Doing. I complain to her all the time about Gen X and she does. She just goes darling, you're so. I completely understand what you.

[Lauren Sherman]

Mean. I mean she does because she is of her time. She understands the moment. Okay, so can you explain to me what this is and why you decided to do it? And can I buy the leggings when I'm in London next time? I really want to come to London before Christmas. I promised myself I wouldn't fly before February, but I really want to come. Can I buy something so I don't have to deal with the.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Tariffs? Yes, but then you'll just have to be here to receive.

[Lauren Sherman]

It. Yes. Okay. Tell me about Silva though. I love it. It looks so good and I should have bought it when I first I was like almost bought the shirt and I didn't for some reason and now feel silly because it was definitely pre tariffs when I first started looking at.

[Tallulah Harlick]

It. So basically you know this new category of where beauty and apparel meet. If we think of every luxury brand that has a beauty component and how this notion of self optimization, biohacking, wellness skin care, skin wear could ever become something for me as someone with incredibly sensitive skin who grew up in the countryside who had this whole sort of lifestyle of eating vegetables from my mother's garden, this whole kind of like nature Life when I wasn't at boarding school. But how this kind of way of summit with CEOs used to be men in Brioni suits and then became men wearing on. And where performance wear sort of stuck to Nike run the marathon part faster. Spanx or skims have control wear. But actually skin barrier is not just your face and your neck. Your skin is 70% across the rest of your body. And where was this component? If we were so frightened about microplastics, if we were so fearful that transdermal absorption could be happening with the type of fabrics that we are layering on our body every second of the day, how could that be something where a supplementary choice within your wardrobe could happen and take place from time to time? And I wanted silver to be something building silver out into something that will be more, I mean, on the nose of sort of charvet shirts in so much as it's an offering of a certain type of wear through an identity, a utilitarian premium side of life. And how trialing with collaboration in the future, where that product, product casually kind of grows with this thought process of how you overlay yarn with skin properties that are scientifically more beneficial for the skin, which, yes, we've seen in how sportswear has landed in fashion. We saw loads of that. And then now this kind of growing category of where beauty and fashion can truly.

[Lauren Sherman]

Meet. So it's interesting a the leggings in particular, it feels like stirrup leggings. There is. It's real. You're meeting the moment in that, all this other stuff. But I also think that that is finally happening, like the return of those in a real way since the early 90s. And it's been attempted many times, but it feels like the moment for it. So that's like a little a superficial thing. But I also think the thing you're talking about, and this kind of goes back to Jonathan and Dior and also JW Anderson and all this, like, local manufacturing. I think materials have become much more important to all consumers, but especially the consumer who can afford stuff. I had Lauren Collins on to talk about Uniqlo last week on Friday, and we talked a lot about material innovation. And that is the thing that makes you can buy a T shirt anywhere, but if you're gonna buy a heat tech, because you need the heat tech. But, you know, then there are all these people who have eczema because of the environment. And my kid has eczema. Everybody, half the people in LA have eczema because of the environment here. And people you know you can buy stuff anywhere and of course what you're making looks particularly good. So they're gonna be built be people who just buy it because they want leggings or they just love the red stitching or what have you. But there are also going to be people the more stuff we have, the more specific it needs to be in its use case or there's no value in it. So I love the idea of it and, and also the, the idea of, you know, I still struggle of what to wear when I'm running and, and working out because so much of it is like a such crap but also looks bad. And so I think there's like a lot of opportunity in that place where you're wearing stuff every day but also maybe working out but also just like need it to take care of yourself.

[Tallulah Harlick]

Completely. And it was with drop one of silver with the properties coming from seaweed sustainably harvested from Icelandic fjords and a sort of Austrian wood cellulose and the combination that was scientifically proven again and again to be most supportive for the skin. But it was this thing of having something that I could wear beneath all the other fashion such as a Chanel jacket et cetera and or go to a Loewe dinner with an underpinning. And when I was at the Chanel show at the beginning of October, there was Daphne Guinness in her couture jacket with silver Mediflox and my mom wore silver to the Met beneath her tailoring to the men's tailoring. And that was the thing of like how can I take something that is a body wear piece but it to be a more elevated brand identity to wear to these coordinates that are that, that are more elevated in nature. Because yeah, you can get a sort of Etsy page 5 Organic long sleeve top but the cut's not very good. The composition of the materials aren't as strong and it's just not as well designed to be able to take you there to those type of places where I know I want it to.

[Lauren Sherman]

Be. Are you thinking at all about like real underpinnings like underwear and bras and things like.

[Tallulah Harlick]

That? Totally. I definitely. People have asked for things. Things are being trialed, sampled. Research and development continues on the next iteration of fabric, how that will be. What is the product offering? I need to come in. I mean I've. It was all so softly done and I. We haven't sort of hard launched. I haven't even done an event yet. Like all of that for 2026 will be what's coming up and getting to America and landing, you know, which of the retailers is the one that's going to be, you know, the big opener. All of.

[Lauren Sherman]

That. Yeah, let's, let's hold off on deciding that. Well, we see what happens with Saks Global. Tallulah, this was so fun. Thank you for being here. Joy, can you come back? Can you come back? Maybe around the shows we can talk.

[Tallulah Harlick]

More. Let's do.

[Lauren Sherman]

It. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Castle Kelly executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob.