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- [00:02]
A
This podcast is brought to you by Netflix. Presenting Frankenstein, a film by Academy Award winning director and writer Guillermo del Toro. A retelling of the classic novel about what it means to be human, to crave love and seek understanding. Starring Oscar Isaac, Jacob Elordi, Mia Goth and Christoph Waltz. The New York Times raves Frankenstein is stunning. The the movie Guillermo del Toro was born to make. Now playing on Netflix for your awards consideration.
- [00:35]
B
At Optum, we're transforming the pharmacy system, bringing real time, pricing, transparency and saving consumers over a billion dollars last year. We serve 62 million Americans not just with medicine, but with guidance, support and care tailored to every unique need. Because at Optum, we understand behind every prescription is a person. Visit optum.com redefinerx to see how we are redefining pharmacy care for good.
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A
Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line sheet. And today with me on the show is stylist Kate Young. We're talking awards season, fashion Living, the Devil Wears Prada, Phoebe Philo, the power of a hair clip, and so much more. Happy Tuesday everyone. Hope you're having a great week. This week in Line Sheet, it's all about powerful women. On Monday, I have a little Dior scoop, a Saks global update and some other notes, but the main event is a look at the Phoebe Filo business two years in. Kate and I are gonna discuss it further here, so we will move on, but you should check it out. Sarah Shapiro also has an interview on Tuesday with Jamie Haller. If you have not heard of this brand, maybe because it's LA based. I know there are a lot of Euros listening to this, but I promise I think you will hear about it soon, even if you're, if you're not stateside. It's mostly shoes, but she has expanded into ready to wear in recent seasons. And I think it's a unique proposition because the shoes are extremely comfortable. Like the shoes look like they, they live up to a fashion idea, but they're really, really comfortable. And there is something to that. If you, if you don't, you're not going to get blisters by wearing these things. It's just a game changer. Sarah's interview is interesting. I hope you enjoy it. In other news, I heard from many of you who wanted to remind me that there are indeed peer to peer rental services in the US Many in the UK but also in the US they are localized for markets, some in the south, some in New York. Great. I still think it's not a great business. It's not scalable, and it's probably easier to share this stuff via Instagram or a Facebook group or something like that. But anyway, looking forward to chilling out this week. I have many dinners with many friends and I'm in la. Catch you on Friday. And here is the great Kate. Kate Young. Welcome back to Fashion People. Thanks for having me back by popular demand.
- [03:15]
C
Oh, good people.
- [03:17]
A
Love you. Oh, I hope so. You're good at the banter.
- [03:21]
C
I'm just always scared. I feel like I'm so unfiltered.
- [03:24]
A
You know, you're one of those people who. You're very good at saying a lot without getting yourself into trouble. There's no one who has been on here where I'm like, I can't believe they said that. There was one person, but it wasn't like a person. A person. A creative person. It was a. An executive. Oh, wow. Anyone could guess. Not gonna go there. How was your weekend? Were you. You didn't go to LA for the Governor's Awards, right?
- [03:52]
C
No, I didn't. My husband's in. He's in Copenhagen, so I couldn't leave. Oh, cool.
- [03:57]
A
Does he do a lot of work there?
- [03:59]
C
Uh, I mean, I don't know.
- [04:00]
A
He.
- [04:01]
C
He does A and R for a record label. So, like, if there's an artist he's working with, he goes wherever they are. Okay.
- [04:07]
A
Interesting. It's kind. I'm assuming it got. It's pretty cold there now. Um, how has this. How was Governor's Ball for you? How many people did you dress? And can you tell the audience a little bit about what it is and what it means to the sort of trajectory of the awards season?
- [04:28]
C
Yeah. It's funny, on my group fashion group text, I actually had this conversation this morning because people were like, what is this?
- [04:35]
A
Yeah.
- [04:35]
C
And it used to be kind of the kickoff to awards is how I always felt about it. Like something that nobody, like New Yorkers don't really know about. But it's the place where all those people are gonna show up in black tie dresses. And I feel like the Academy gala kind of usurped that. That kickoff role. And I've been dressing people for it for years. And honestly, I don't know what it is.
- [05:02]
A
I don't really either. We did an event here in la. We. We did our. It's called Stories of the Season, and it's sort of like a actually interesting editorialized FYC event. So for anyone who doesn't know what fyc, it's for your consideration. So it's like people who. Who want awards and we do an Oscars won and an Emmys won, or people who are in the awards race, we interview them. And I interviewed four costume designers. My colleague Matt Bellany interviewed Chloe Zhao, and then he did Noah Baumbach and Emily Mortimer and their casting director. And then there were. There was an actors panel too, with Elle Fanning and Jesse Plemons. It was really great. But anyway, the point being that I said something to my colleague that like, do we need to do this on a Friday night at. At 6pm like, can't we do this another time? And he said, well, it's really connected to the Governor's Ball. And they just do these all weekend and we lead up to it. But I don't. I don't really understand either. Maybe I should have had Matt Bellamy on to this. He went to it. He was taking photos of Tom Cruise from it. So I don't know what it is either, but it sounds like a nice event. And I thought that the red carpet, from what I've seen so far, that everyone looked really pretty. Yeah.
- [06:17]
C
I mean, it's one of those. I don't know what it is, but I know how you do an awards campaign because that's my job. And it is. This last weekend is like all Q and A's, all for your consideration events, All Emmy, Golden Globes, Oscar. They're all events to promote your movie or your. My client for the award nomination. And I think that's what he. People need to see pictures of the people in order to vote for them.
- [06:55]
A
Yeah. And you did Rose Byrne last night. Did you do anyone else?
- [06:59]
C
Yeah, Dakota Johnson.
- [07:00]
A
Oh, Dakota Johnson.
- [07:01]
D
Yes, of course.
- [07:02]
A
So what were for those two, like the. Your sort of. I love the Dakota Johnson. That Valentino dress. It is. Was it a campaign dress?
- [07:16]
C
No, it's from the show.
- [07:18]
A
It was really great. What was your sort of like, idea for both of them for this event in particular?
- [07:25]
C
It's funny. This event is a little bit funny because you can use Runway. Cause it's still sort of new and available, but we are in a phase where, like, dresses are starting to be held. You know, like everybody's movie premieres and all the awards stuff is starting. Like Gotham Awards is in a week. Like, it really starts happening. So like with Dakota, I held that dress right away, like when I was in the car leaving the show, because I just felt like, oh, that's a great dress. It'll look good on her. She can wear Runway samples I don't need to wait for a dupe to be me. Like, it's a cool dress. It's a really beautiful color. I think it sort of photographs a little bit flat compared to what it does in real life. But my idea was just like, oh, she'll look hot in that dress.
- [08:11]
A
The dress is good. I was at that show also, and the dress is really good. I thought it looked even though it is a color that's like, can get lost in a flash or whatever. I thought she looked great, and it's really good with her hair color. Yeah.
- [08:27]
C
And I think I felt like the thing about that dress is that it could go kind of like campy old movie star, which is not really my shtick. So I think, like, the one thing that I did there was like, to think, I don't want, like, a giant movie star diamond necklace and the earrings. Like, I don't want to do that here because it could be like Grace Kelly drag.
- [08:51]
A
She looked cool. She really did. Yeah. And I also think there was a dress that Kirsten Dunst wore a Valentino. I think it's resort. It was polka dots and flowers. I love that. I like. I want to get that dress for I'm. I have a couple weddings next year, and I was like, I think I'm.
- [09:10]
C
Going to try to get it the sample sales tomorrow. Do you want me to see if they have it for you?
- [09:14]
A
Sure, sure. I'd have to lose about. If they. If it's a sample size, I'd have to lose about 25 more pounds, but, yeah, if you see it there, let me know. I don't know. I think it's, like, just in stores now, so I'm gonna. I have some time. But the point being that, like, have you. I mean, obviously Dakota is now. I don't know what the title is, but an ambassador for Valentino. But have you had fun using that stuff on red carpet?
- [09:42]
C
Yeah, this was the second one. She wore it to Vogue World. It's fun working with these clothes again because I feel like so much of Dakota's personal style was wrapped up in that Gucci Alessandro stuff. It's, like, very sexy and classic, but also this, like, crazy quirky old lady stuff and couture details. So there is a lot of her look was wrapped up in that, and it's nice to have that back. Yeah, like, that wink back. It's fun. I mean, the Valentino stuff. I have always been a fan. I think it's been tricky for me to use it. A lot of the Time. But, like, the quality of those clothes when I get them in the office is dazzling. It's dazzling. And like, his color sensibility, his eye is weird, and it's refreshing.
- [10:30]
A
Yeah.
- [10:30]
C
Like, I dress really minimally, but, like, I love fashion and it is like a capital F. Fashion.
- [10:38]
A
Yeah. I was talking to Laura Vinroop pool. I did an event at Capitol out here in LA last week or Brentwood last week, and she was saying that she was going in December for market or whatever, and she said it's just mind blowing. Like, it's just the. And. And she's had a lot of success with it because it's, you know, she's dressing for people, for galas. What do you think about the return of the Rockstead? Wait, what did you. Okay, so did you see. Sorry, I. I'm. This is a gotcha. I didn't tell Kate that we were going to talk about this, but I just remembered. So basically, I'm gonna have Sarah Shapiro by the time this publishes. There may be an item in line sheet about the rock studs return. But the Devil Wears Prada trailer, the whole thing is Miranda Priestley. Like, it's just a pair of red pumps walking, and she's wearing rock studs. And the Internet, like, is that the Valentino shoe? Yes.
- [11:39]
C
Oh, that horrible fake shoe.
- [11:41]
A
Yes. Yes. So she freaked out. She completely. The Internet freaked out. And so then I started looking into it and I got a couple response. I linked to it in my very mild. I was just like, interesting that they use this because, like, why are they using the Rockstud in 2025? But then I got a message from someone saying, I see them on the Upper east side all the time. I think it's time. It's going to come back. I think it's time.
- [12:15]
C
Okay.
- [12:15]
A
I think that you're. That. That the next time Dakota wears an outfit, Alessandro is going to have a special pair of rock studs for her that he may look, like, funny and cool.
- [12:26]
C
Yeah, I mean, that's possible, I think. Listen, like, the commercialized version of that, it's a little like the YSL tribute shoe. Like, it's just icky and commercial and the people who wear them are not cool.
- [12:40]
A
No.
- [12:40]
C
And, like, that doesn't mean it's not cool ever or wasn't in the beginning. But I'm just. I'm open to it. I'm sort of. Devil Wears Prada is not a good conversation for me. I did that job, that movie I had.
- [12:55]
A
Oh, you were on that movie?
- [12:57]
C
No, I was. I Did that job.
- [12:59]
A
You were. You did have that job. Were you assistants with the woman who wrote the book?
- [13:05]
C
No, she replaced me. I was only the second assistant. I was never the first assistant.
- [13:11]
A
And Leslie's the one who's, like, depicted in it.
- [13:14]
C
Yeah, I. So the way it worked, actually, is that I left. Leslie replaced me. And then Les, the girl, Melissa Skoog, was in charge.
- [13:25]
A
Oh, I know her. Yeah. She still runs a PR firm in Chicago, Skoog Communications.
- [13:31]
C
And Leslie got promoted to first assistant. And then the girl who wrote the book worked for Leslie.
- [13:36]
A
Okay.
- [13:37]
C
But, like, I loved that job. I loved every minute of that job. I woke up every morning like, yeah, I'm going to Vogue today. And so when I watched the movie, I actually walked out and called my therapist and was like, am I a masochist? What is wrong with me? Because a lot of what happens in the movie is factually true. Like the events of. Of being her assistant. But I didn't. I thought it was great. So, like, I have a complicated relationship with it all. Like, I don't watch it and just, like, enjoy the fun of it the way most people in fashion did.
- [14:12]
A
I understand. I was. When that movie came out, I had just moved to New York. I went to see it in Union Square and sat on the floor. Cause there wasn't enough room.
- [14:21]
C
Oh, my God.
- [14:22]
A
I was very much. I didn't like watching stuff like that because I was like, I want to work in magazines, and I don't want to, like, fantasize about this fake world that I know isn't true. So I never connect. Also, the clothes in it are very cool.
- [14:37]
C
They're not good.
- [14:39]
A
You're right. They're not good. And they were never good. I think this time they're going to be more connected to actual fashion world. Back then, they had nothing to do with what was happening in fashion.
- [14:51]
C
So it felt like that still happens. Like Emily and Paris. Like, everybody talks about the fashion. The fashion is not good.
- [14:58]
A
Well, the fashion is so bad.
- [15:00]
C
It's a look at.
- [15:01]
A
It's funny.
- [15:02]
C
Same with All's Fair. Like, all these fashion shows. Like, the clothes are not chic.
- [15:08]
A
I've been having a lot of conversations with people here in LA about fashion shows. Like, a lot of people want to do shows about fashion. And every single person, I'm like, you cannot do a Runway show. You cannot do a collection, like maybe three seasons in or whatever, do that. But do not do one, because everyone's gonna have an opinion. It's gonna look stupid. And I think, like, the reason like a Zoolander worked or whatever was because it wasn't real, but it got the essence of, like, what makes the industry so fun and also ridiculous. And most people just like, don't, don't get it. But I think it's just also being so far away from it here and not like everybody's priorities here are different and, and all of that stuff, like, if you look at the studio and like how good the clothes and the aesthetic is in there, it's just, it's like, that's definitely not reflective of, of Hollywood, that's for sure. Right? Right. This podcast is brought to you by Netflix. Presenting J. Kelly, a film by Academy Award nominee Noah Baumbach. George Clooney stars as a famous movie actor who embarks on a journey of self discovery, confronting his past and present with his devoted manager, played by Adam Sandler. Critics are raving it's one of the best films of the year with George Clooney and Adam Sandler giving career best performances. The Wall Street Journal hails it a transcendent comedy drama now playing in select theaters on Netflix. December 5th. For your awards consideration. I'm curious, you mentioned that, like, now people are starting to hold dresses. How has this season been starting with the Academy gala and going into the Oscars? Because you did have all these new runways and these new designers to sort of pull from. And I loved, I think, that you dressed Rose Byrne in polka dot selim for the Academy gala. Is that right? I love that. I thought she looked amazing. And also she's really in the conversation. I haven't seen that movie yet, but it sounds like it's. Everyone I know who's seen it has said it's awesome. If I had legs, I would kick you. Right. But everyone said she's so awesome. And so it's going to be really fun.
- [17:39]
C
And I also think, like, people just love her.
- [17:42]
A
Yeah.
- [17:43]
C
Like, if you look at all her movies, how many times she's made you laugh and, like, how many cool projects she's done over the years. There's a lot of goodwill towards her.
- [17:52]
A
Yeah, there totally. It's crazy.
- [17:55]
C
I've never had a client who all my other clients want to talk to me about.
- [17:59]
A
That's so fun.
- [18:00]
C
Oh, my God, I love her. She's so fabulous. I heard her movie's great. Everybody loves her shows on Apple. Like, there's a lot of goodwill towards her. I adore her.
- [18:10]
A
She's great. She seems awesome. I've watched, I've gone in and out of Platonic just because Like, I like them so much. Not, like, hugely interested in the story, but. Did you watch Physical? I watched some of it, but I was like, a little bit like, can I handle this?
- [18:30]
C
I watched it after she became my client, and I was like, oh, my.
- [18:34]
A
God, this is amazing. Maybe I'll watch it. I need something.
- [18:38]
C
It's just amazing that it got made.
- [18:40]
A
Yeah.
- [18:41]
C
You know, I mean, it's really a female horror story.
- [18:46]
D
Great.
- [18:46]
A
I'll. I. Maybe I'll start watching it. I'm. The only thing I'm watching right now is I love L. A. I don't.
- [18:52]
C
Even know what that is.
- [18:53]
A
Don't watch it. It's basically, it's like Entourage or How to make it in America, but for women in Los Angeles, it's. But everyone's comparing it to girls, but I would say it's more along the lines of those things. The first episode, I was like, I can't watch this because I'm 15 years older than these people, but I live in the same, like, all the things they do on the show. I do. And I was like, I'm too old, and what's wrong with me? And, like, why am I. And. And, I mean, I don't do the things that they do in their home, but I just mean, like, go to the same coffee shops and. And shit. Yeah, but. And it's, like, about a girl who works at a name like dba, the influencer agency. Oh, God, it's. I need to ask Raina, who's the owner of dba, if she's watched it and is stressed out about it. Yeah, because it's really funny. But it's the only show I've been. I've been able to watch, so maybe I'll watch that. But. But what do you. Like, how has it been given? There were so many debuts, and there is so much. I thought the Dior at the Governor's Ball was, like, this was the best showing for Dior on the men and women's side so far. Of, like, the dresses consistently looked good, whereas previously it was, like, very up and down. But I'm curious, like, what. Given all the debuts and is there more inventory than usual, are the brands, like, more excited to do new things? Like, what has the experience been this season?
- [20:19]
C
I think everybody's more. Being more careful and strategic than usual.
- [20:23]
A
Yeah, interesting.
- [20:24]
C
You know, like, it's new teams. It's new teams doing sometimes pr. New teams making the dresses. Like, there's new ateliers in a lot of the places. Like, I think people are just Trying to be more strategic because everything feels like it counts so much. And it's new. Like, you know, how many. How many of any of these designers dresses have we seen? Yeah, very many. Right. So, like, they don't want to do, like, the wishy washy ones. And one. One of the things my friend said this morning was like, there's a lot of brands missing at Govern. And I was like, governors doesn't really count. Like, a lot of brands didn't. I would assume, did not participate, quote, unquote.
- [21:08]
A
Got it.
- [21:08]
C
It costs a fortune to make a dress.
- [21:11]
A
Yeah.
- [21:12]
C
And like, is that going to be on tv? Does it have the same legs as like, a Golden Globes?
- [21:17]
A
No. Yeah.
- [21:18]
C
Right.
- [21:19]
A
Yeah. What I know. We. We were about to talk about the Roseburn polka dot Celine, which I just love. Yeah. How have you and I feel like we talked right after the Celine show maybe or around that y. You as. As I. We both enjoyed it. What have you thought about their sort of strategy on red carpet? Because that was such a fun dress that, like, I would have not. I. It felt like it sort of Mary Poppin popped out of nowhere or something. Yeah.
- [21:50]
C
I'm curious. Listen, that was another one. I was in Paris and I saw it and was like, that would look great on Rose. Rose has a body that she can wear a lot of things that nobody can wear. It's hard to wear something like that. You need to have the height. And even though she was totally covered, you really do have to have, like, a bumpless body to wear a big muumuu and look seek in it in a photo. And, like, it felt important to me. It felt like the Academy gala was going to be the time where everybody wore Runway dresses, like, right after the shows and the first time out. And I felt like I wanted Rose to be part of that conversation. Like, new Runway. And Celine was one of my favorite shows. I loved it. I think probably I loved so many of the shows, but Celine made me want to dress a certain way and made me want to go buy a new pair of shoes and made me want to maybe retail her a jacket. There were things in there that really triggered the fashion thing where you're like, oh, I want to change my outfit. I want to look like those girls, and I wanted to reflect that at the Academy gala. Does that make sense?
- [22:58]
A
Totally. I felt that very much from that show. And then also Versace, like, it was really about dressing. Like, it wasn't about.
- [23:06]
C
You wanted to look like that at Versace.
- [23:09]
A
No, but I wanted to think about clothes again and, like, putting outfits together, I think. But you. You weren't in Milan, right?
- [23:19]
C
I wasn't. And my reaction to Versace was like, ew. And then it grew on me.
- [23:25]
A
Yeah. I think if you were there, it was different. And it's one of those cases where I really. And look like, you never know, because there are shows I don't get to go to. And then I have a reaction, and I'm like, is it because I wasn't there, or is it because I actually didn't like it? Whereas this. And I don't know if I would have liked that show if I had not been there, but when I was there, I was like, the first couple looks, I was like, what's going on? Then I'm just like, oh, my God, this is so fun. And I think the thing that I think kind of connects the two of them is they are thinking about how, like, women put clothes together when they were young and that.
- [24:04]
C
That I felt, well, not when they were young, like, how they dress now. How do cool girls dress now?
- [24:11]
A
Like, well, are there any cool girls, Kate? Is a question. Of course.
- [24:15]
C
When you walk down the street, you go to a museum, you go to a cafe, there's like, some chick sitting in the corner writing in her journal or typing on her phone, who looks rad, who's got, like, $2 white shoes on. She found in a thrift store with, like, her mom's cool designer jacket. And, like, I think that's, like, so much of good style comes out of those girls, not out of the actual customer. The customer isn't generating style.
- [24:40]
A
Yes. So do you have any? I think you're right. I mean, I do think that there's two things going on here right now. We're living in this culture of thrifting where there is just an opportunity, really have the. You know, when we were growing up, it was like Salvation army and then fancy thrifts, fancy secondhand stores.
- [25:02]
C
Yeah. Michaels or whatever.
- [25:04]
A
Yeah. And now it's like everybody's thrifting constantly. And so if you are into fashion, you can kind of, like, really cultivate a personal style. Then there's also this sort of dictation that's happening where people are just buying stuff off of. I bought two hats off of the Internet the other day because I lost my two Koss cashmere beanies when we were in New York. Both of them that I've had forever. It's so annoying. I got, like, a weird cashmere brand, but I just got them, and they're Def. It was definitely like some crappy internety thing. I have them, like, outside right now airing out because they smell like chemicals. But the point being that there's also this thing where people are just sort of dressing whatever they, like, are being fed on Instagram. So there's like a ton of personal style and then. Then none, so. I know what you mean. I felt like a real in both of those shows, like a real nostalgia of. And a feeling of like, let's get back to putting things together. But I agree. I thought Celine was, like, sneaky. One of the best. Or, you know, top. Top. Definitely top five shows of the season. I wanted to briefly talk. So before we go to the next topic of. Of your. Your hair, I want to. What do you think? Like, what do you. What are your predictions for Oscars? Like, do you think people are going to. Because I would say the thing that has been. It's all been very quote, unquote, pretty. Like, even at lacma, which was all Gucci, it was all, like, glamour pretty, kind of real, even polished, you could say, for like, a demna style. I mean, he's still kind of coming in, so there was stuff that was really demna. I thought Elle Fanning looked amazing at lacma, but what do you think this Oscars is gonna be, given all the data you have at this point?
- [27:11]
C
I mean, I think there's this funny thing that's going on, which bothers me a little bit, where designers are making dresses for talent that are totally unrelated to the shows and the brand identity, and that makes it hard to predict sometimes. Like, I was, for instance, like, I saw Ariana Grande and then read that it was Dior and was like, what on earth? And then it turned out to be vintage Dior.
- [27:43]
A
Yeah.
- [27:43]
C
But I. It. It could have been is the way I feel about it. Like, people will make the same dress. Like, Demi Moore has worn the same dress, like, five times from five different designers.
- [27:56]
A
Yeah.
- [27:57]
C
You know, and they're making dresses that are so unrelated to the brand DNA or the show DNA that, like, it's hard. It's more about personal style. And maybe that's good. Maybe that's like, you know, I'm a celebrity and I have this body, and this is how I'm confident and random people can make me dresses, and they'll all the same sort of like the Jennifer Aniston vibe, but it makes it harder to predict. And I do think I, like, I think we're all a little over the aggressive nudity and, like, vulgarity. Although I just read the Met theme.
- [28:36]
A
I heard it last week about the body. Right.
- [28:38]
C
It's like, bodies. I'm like, oh, great.
- [28:40]
A
I also heard it last week. I don't know why, like, did they have a preview last week or something? Because everybody was like, I know what it is. It's bodies. I was like, cool. I'm not gonna. I. I don't need to scoop this.
- [28:52]
C
Yeah.
- [28:53]
A
It's funny.
- [28:54]
C
I'm like, probably pretty. There does seem to be not so much with my clients, but there does seem to be this real, like, old world, like, old Hollywood glamour. Like, to me, the Dior dresses are all really heavy. Like, it's a lot of heavy draping and heavy looking fabrics and, like, molded, kind of like they look like dresses that stand up on their own.
- [29:18]
A
Yeah.
- [29:19]
C
Maybe that's what Jonathan's signature is going to be. But to me, those look like 1940s movie star gowns.
- [29:24]
A
Yeah. That's interesting. I think he's still figuring it out. He's not a. He's not a red carpet designer. And suddenly is. Because it's so important for them. And I, like, it's required.
- [29:37]
C
I mean, they're all contracted, those girls. They have to make those dresses for them.
- [29:41]
A
Yeah. And I thought this time, like, the Mia Goth dress was really beautiful. And I thought Natalie Portman looked cool too. It looked more controlled is how I would say, compared to, you know, looking all the way back to Venice where it was kind of like, okay, we're still learning. Okay. So moving on to another kind of red carpet Hollywood event extravaganza. There was this moma benefit last week that honored Sofia Coppola, and Chanel, I believe, underwrote the event and maybe does every year.
- [30:19]
C
They always do.
- [30:21]
A
A lot of people wore Chanel. Sofia Coppola and Al Fanning wore Chanel. They looked amazing. You were there. And A, I would love to hear how the event was because it looked super fabulous, but B, you had your hair pulled back in a chignon. Is that how you say it?
- [30:43]
C
No, it was a French twist. A French twist chignon is a little bun.
- [30:47]
A
Little bun.
- [30:48]
C
Okay. A French twist is like a stewardess from when we were growing up.
- [30:52]
A
I thought that. I thought a chignon could be. Is that how you say it? Probably not.
- [30:58]
C
I'm.
- [30:59]
A
It is. I. I thought that could be like a French twist also, but maybe not. Anyway, I feel like there's something going on with people wearing their hair pulled back with clips. Like, obviously at the row, that was a big part of the styling. But What. What inspired you and why do you think it was. Became almost viral of this photo of you?
- [31:26]
C
I think that, like, for me, a. My hair is in a weird length. I chop it into a bob, like, every two years and then spend two years growing it back out. So my hair is a weird length. And I think I also have a little more time on my hands. Both my kids are in high school, so, like, I haven't thought about how I looked in years because I think about how other people look, and then I have life stuff to deal with, and I have, like, you know, an extra couple hours a week, and I'm like, oh, I'm going to a party. What could I do to look chic? Which, like, I haven't had the luxury of thinking that in a really long time. I think the ro hair really inspired me. I was like, that's really chic and cool, and it's. I think it added some twist that, you know, to minimal clothes that made it look so glamorous. Um, and then, honestly, that French twist with a bow on the side, I have been doing that for, like, 30 years, but I usually do it myself. And it's really sloppy. Like, I've had that bow. Karl Lagerfeld gave me that bow, like, when we were shooting a Dom Perignon campaign 20 years ago. Oh, my God. And I've. I've worn it probably 150 times, so I think that it's part of, like, stuff I like. My hair is, like, important to me, obviously. I've had this crazy bleached hair, and it's very much part of my look, and I like the idea of hair that's subversive as part of my personal style. And I think I started it. I was wearing a very simple Pro Enza dress to cfda, and I had in my mind that I wanted a more punk version of what the Row looked like in the hair. And Orlando did the hair. And then I was getting. You know, the following week was the Chanel thing, and I was like, I should do another. I'll stick a bow in it.
- [33:23]
A
I thought it looked great. I thought it looked great. It inspired me. I might. I might do a French twist for something.
- [33:31]
C
Yeah, you should.
- [33:32]
A
It's kind of hard with my. The thickness of my hair.
- [33:36]
C
No, that's good. It'll be big because you have to kind of tease it up to get it in there.
- [33:41]
A
Oh, really?
- [33:42]
C
Usually, yeah.
- [33:42]
A
Maybe I'll do it for something. Maybe I'll do it for. I'm coming to New York for the Chanel show. So I'll see. Great. I'm very excited.
- [33:52]
C
I'll do it for the Chanel show.
- [33:53]
E
Or.
- [33:53]
A
Well, maybe I'll do it. I'm going to a party that week and maybe I'll do it for that. Yeah, it'll be fun.
- [33:59]
C
I mean, I can't wait. I'm really into like a earring clip and I always think that looks good with an updo. Like, I'm just kind of into this kind of old New York society hair. It's like, appealing to me.
- [34:15]
A
I understand. I think it works for you, too.
- [34:19]
C
Thanks.
- [34:20]
A
It's your era. Your Sydney Garber hair pulled back era. Okay, real talk. We all love a good deal, and there's nothing more satisfying than knowing you didn't pay full price. And that's why everyone is obsessed with Rakuten. It's free to join. And every time you shop at your favorite stores, Target, Macy's, Ulta, Nike, even Expedia, you get cash back. And listen, the holidays are when Rakuten really shines. Because not only are the sales already big this time of year, but you can stack Rakuten's cash back on top of those sales. That means saving on savings. Like if a store is doing 20% off and Rakuten has 15% cash back, you're getting both. It adds up fast. They also do this weekly Big Deal reveals where one store will offer a super high cash back rate for one day only. I've seen some wild ones and I always check. Obviously, signing up takes no time. It's totally free. And there's even a welcome bonus when you join and make a qualifying purchase. So do not miss out. Go to rakuten.com, download the app, or install the browser extension. Join today for a new member. Welcome Bonus after minimum qualifying purchases, terms and conditions apply.
- [35:41]
D
Hey fashion people, this week I am sharing something very special. It's a new series from one of my favorite podcasts, imo with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. On imo's special series, the Look, Michelle Obama opens up for the first time about her journey and legacy as a fashion icon in and beyond the White House. Through a series of candid, intimate conversations with her longtime beauty collaborators, fashion insiders and legendary women including Jane Fonda, Nina Garcia, Bethann Hardison, Elaine Welcheroth, Jenna Lyons, among others, she reveals how she and her team leverage the scrutiny of her public image to Blow boldly celebrates self expression, inclusion and cultural impact. A companion to her book, the look celebrates an extraordinary legacy of authenticity and representation that continues to permeate culture, politics and fashion today. In this episode, Project Runway host and editor in chief of Elle, Nina Garcia guides a conversation between Michelle Obama, an African American literature professor, Farah Jasmine Griffin. They dive into the making of Michelle Obama as a defining force in style. What she wore growing up in the south side of Chicago, how she evolved herself presentation in college, and how she stepped into her public image on the national stage as the first black first lady. You can hear the look series by searching for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [37:19]
A
Okay, other topic I wanted to discuss with you. I did a piece this week about sort of the Phoebe Filo rise at retail and the sort of it finally sort of hitting the market in a real way. And this idea of the piece was I've been talking to a lot of people about a the gig bag becoming an alternative to maybe the Margot or some of the Bottega bags. And I see it in LA now, which to me the trickle of is stuff happening is if you see it at like a resort or if you see it in LA or somewhere where it's not obvious. Like when I'm in Paris. Yeah, exactly. And then also they are just expanding. They're opening a store in London. The question I kind of raised in the piece was like, she has been deeply influential. I felt it at the shows and also at retail and just like in marketing and imagery the last two years. But the fact that they she's sort of out of the cycle and the system in many ways of how she's operating, like, is it worth it? Should she come back to Fashion Week and be part of the conversation? Given that, like, she's already, would she. Would it benefit them to be in the middle of that or not? In thinking in this like, post monoculture world, I was curious as a consumer, as someone who's your fashion editor, you're a celebrity stylist and you're also someone who sees a lot of people with the means in the world, like, what you think about the brand and where it should sort of sit on the totem pole.
- [39:08]
C
I think, well, I mean, I love it. I love to look at it. I get really excited when I get those emails and get to see a new lookbook. I think their visual identity is incredible and like, as important as like any show. The styling so good, the casting so good. You want everything when you look at it. But I think like, in my the real women I know who shop, I think the difference is really them getting to try it on and touch it, like, people are like, I'm gonna go. I'm coming to New York. I'm gonna go to Bergdorf so I can try on the Phoebe Filo stuff. I haven't seen it in person. Like, there's definitely. It's. It's hard to buy clothes on the Internet. Like, when you look at clothes on the Internet, cost does not look that different from Phoebe Filo. When you're looking at a pair of black pants online, like, the difference is in the feeling.
- [40:01]
A
Yeah.
- [40:01]
C
When you put it on, like, that is the. So for me, I. I would imagine the reason you're seeing it is because people can go try it on. And when you get it on, it's really hard to, like, walk away from the store without taking it with you.
- [40:15]
A
Yeah. Yeah. So I like, it's very easy to.
- [40:18]
C
Close a tab with a full cart.
- [40:21]
A
What do you think about the sort of way people are shopping now versus two or three years ago? Because the other thing that's happening that's interesting is, like, a lot of brands are not gonna do well this quarter. Like, the last quarter for earnings for luxury goods were really good. It was an improvement. And it seemed like things were picking up. I don't think the holidays, especially in America, which has been a huge growth center for big brands, is gonna be good this season for a variety of reasons. But how. Have you seen the way people shop, change?
- [41:00]
C
I mean, listen, I'm not a business person. I don't know all the ins and outs the way you do. But I know that, like, all my friends travel a lot. People I know travel a lot. And they're all so invested in shopping in these niche stores that are not online that you can't get everywhere. Things you can't get everywhere. And that seems to be, like, a really precious thing. Like, Ruby Rosa during Paris Fashion Week was, like, it was like trying to get into the Alaia show. Everybody was in there. Everybody was buying stuff. Everything you wanted was sold out. It was on every Instagram story you opened. And, like, there's no website and they won't ship.
- [41:41]
A
Yeah. And, like, that's why it's exciting.
- [41:44]
C
Yeah. And I think. I also think people like shopping, like, in the city on weekends, there are lines outside of every store. Like, people want to shop. It's a fun thing to do. It's a fun social thing. Like, yeah, shopping is fun, but I don't know how that plays out. I don't know what people really buy. Like, I have some friends who spend so much money, like, who knows? What, what? How everything impacts them. And then I have friends who don't really shop, you know, who like buy stuff at the Rachel Comey sample sale once a year.
- [42:21]
A
Yeah. I think it's also different in places that are car culture cities. I had a friend who was in Bal harbor yesterday who was like, nobody's here. And yeah, I think, like.
- [42:37]
C
But is that because it was raining?
- [42:40]
A
Maybe. But that's the thing. Like, I don't think in most. If you don't live in New York or Paris or London or Milan or Madrid or whatever, there is a. I don't really shop in LA at all. Like, I go shopping. I basically only shop in Paris. I'm gonna go shopping with my friend Delphine on. And I. You know what I did on Saturday? I went to Reese, who they did a pop up at. At a home in a lovely woman who I had chatted with previously at home in Hancock Park. And I got a Chanel jacket.
- [43:17]
C
Actually chic.
- [43:19]
A
It's good. I'll send it to you. It's really. It's my first one.
- [43:22]
C
I mean, she has good taste and she has good, she's amazing taste.
- [43:26]
A
And the thing was, like, all the Chanel stuff she had was like very Matteo coated. It's great. I'm really excited. I'm excited. And it's lightweight, so I could wear it like in the summer. Yeah, I'm very excited.
- [43:38]
C
I mean, you're saying that it's like I have a lot of Chanel. Cause I worked so much with Chanel years ago and so much of it was in storage. And before that MoMA party, I was like, I need to go look through all my Chanel stuff. Because the way this new collection made me feel, it's like different stuff I wanted from Chanel. And I pulled a bunch of stuff out and like, it's so good.
- [44:00]
A
I know.
- [44:01]
C
You know, like, I wore old chanel to the MoMA. And Elsa, who's worked at Chanel for a million years, saw me and she was like, when is that from? And I was like, look at the lining. You'll remember. And she was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The boy collection. Which I don't even know what she was talking about.
- [44:17]
A
Amazing.
- [44:18]
C
But it, you know, that stuff is precious. I mean, that's where like, Chanel is so genius because it does function a little bit more like an investment or jewelry. Like this idea that you couldn't pass it on.
- [44:32]
A
Yeah.
- [44:33]
C
I have my grandmother's Chanel bag.
- [44:35]
A
That's amazing.
- [44:37]
C
Yeah, it's still cool, right?
- [44:38]
A
Yeah.
- [44:39]
C
I mean, yes.
- [44:40]
A
Yeah, it's. The Chanel bag is the only bag that I. Only real designer bag I have.
- [44:46]
C
Oh, I read or heard you talk about buying it and you got it before they jacked the prices.
- [44:51]
A
Yeah, it was $2,500 in 2010. I bought it after having two.
- [44:57]
C
Better than buying bitcoin. Yeah.
- [44:59]
A
I. I bought it after having two bloody Marys at Boqueria. So I was like, I make $65,000. I have to get the Chanel back.
- [45:11]
C
Yeah. Great.
- [45:13]
A
Oh, what's fun. Good times. But yeah, I still have. I love it. It's so beautiful. And it works in la. I think now again, it's all gonna feel more. It's gonna feel good again. It's, It's. It's a special moment in fashion.
- [45:28]
C
I mean, that Chanel show changed the aesthetic too. I actually reci made jackets. I'm gonna take this full circle for you. This is an excellent podcast. Reci made jackets maybe 10 years ago, and I have one. It's great. Like, the quality is beautiful. It's like a plaid jacket with big shoulders. But when I was looking at my closet this fall, I was like, I'm not gonna wear this. I don't wanna get rid of it. Cause it's good. But I'm not gonna wear it. Cause it's long. Like, it came almost to my knees.
- [45:56]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [45:56]
C
And then I was thinking about like, this is so fashion editor. But like, when I'm doing my closet and getting rid of stuff, I'm like, what is. Like, what's the proportion I'm gonna wear? Like, what are things I can hem or change or alter that will make me wear them to keep them? And I cut the jacket from Reese. I cut the bottom pockets off and made it so that it hit right at my true waist. And the tailor who did it was like, this is genius. Everyone in the workshop is doing the same thing to all their jackets because it looks like the Michelle Obama jacket now.
- [46:30]
A
Yeah. Oh, amazing. That's so.
- [46:32]
C
And like, I want it now. I don't want to. I can't afford that jacket and it's not going to be out for six months. But I want to look like that now. Like, I want to just wear a high waisted jean and a cropped jacket with a big shoulder. So, like, totally. That proportion looks right to me.
- [46:48]
A
Yes. Yeah, I agree. The look I liked was the like sage green and red plaid suit. And this jacket I got thread white and blue plaid. It's good. I was like, yeah, it feels it feels really good. Okay, one final question for you.
- [47:02]
C
Yes.
- [47:03]
A
I have sold a bunch of my winter coats because, you know, I live in Los Angeles. I did wear. I did wear a cashmere Jill Sander puffer today to school drop off because it was 59 degrees. I've become that person. It's pretty lightweight. It's like double face cashmere and then a puffer in the back. It's a really great jacket.
- [47:24]
C
But.
- [47:26]
A
What winter coat should I get? Like, what do you think is the silhouette?
- [47:31]
C
Because they're gonna come for me. Hopefully they stop listening by this point. Yeah, I love fur. So I'm like, buy a vintage fur. It's totally cheap.
- [47:41]
A
Yeah, they have.
- [47:42]
C
They have no value in resale. You can get a beautiful fur coat that would have been worth thousands and thousands of dollars or tens of thousands for, like, less than a thousand. It's eco. It's a used fur coat. It will degrade. It's like not a man made microplastic. They're warmer.
- [48:01]
A
Maybe I will.
- [48:03]
C
They're light. It can rain on them. It's like, well, the best and so glamorous.
- [48:11]
A
And can I wear that, like, when I. Because basically the only time I'll be wearing this coat is in February for one week, maybe two.
- [48:19]
C
Get like a J. Mendel mink coat on the real.
- [48:22]
A
Get black or brown. Okay.
- [48:24]
C
Just get what suits you. Like, what do you like?
- [48:30]
A
I've never considered getting that much black.
- [48:33]
C
Do you?
- [48:33]
A
I wear a lot of black. I just. I don't. On the podcast, I always wear pink.
- [48:37]
C
No, but I feel like I always see you in navy.
- [48:40]
A
You know what I will say is this videotaped? It's videotaped, but it's not gonna be aired. But it's. But I just wear pink for. For you. Like, I. I just don't want to look like, you know, I actually, this is the issue with Navy. So I have. I'm back on navy, but I realized at some point I don't. I look better in black than navy. And. But then last week, I wore navy twice to two to two different speaking events. And the second one was like, I was going to wear a black look. And it looked. It was like too much like it was that. It was. I just, like, was like, I'm gonna be on stage interviewing costume designers. I don't need to be wearing this, like, sculpted cardigan. It was Isabella's sculpted cardigan, which I love, but it just, like, looked too. I don't. Girly or something. So I wore a plain theory Navy Sweater with my. I got the Phoebe Burst earrings for Christmas. This is my Christmas present. Yes, they're very nice. But. But then my friend did, did my makeup. She did our makeup for this event. Liz Lash. She's a great makeup artist. I was like, I'm wearing. I don't look good in this color. And somehow she did my makeup that it looked fine. But I've moved away from navy because I think it doesn't. I think I look better in black. I wear a ton of black, especially here. I wear like black T shirts and jeans most of the time, except for, for when I'm doing, like, if I'm going to be on Zoom or something, I try to wear a color just so I don't have to wear makeup and I don't look like death, you know?
- [50:16]
C
Yeah.
- [50:18]
A
And I wear a lot of pink and red for whatever reason.
- [50:20]
C
I think it's more about finding a fur that you like. Okay. Than worrying about the color.
- [50:26]
A
Okay. Interesting. This has got me on a whole new path.
- [50:30]
C
Sorry.
- [50:31]
A
No, it's great. I love it. I love it. I, I like all, all the reasons behind it too. I did, you know what jacket I did have is that Eve Solomon fur lined army jacket. And I, I bought it because everyone else paid. Everyone else got gifted it and I bought mine at opening ceremony, but it never quite fit right and I ended up selling it. But I got like, it was, it was 1300 bucks and I got it like I got 900 bucks for it or something. Like it was like after five years, like it was like worth. Yeah, it was like a good return or whatever. But this is great, a great idea. Thank you for your support. I want to have you back on maybe after Oscars so we can debrief on how it was for you and for the rest of your industry.
- [51:24]
D
Okay.
- [51:26]
A
You're the best. I'll see you in a couple weeks. Thanks for being, being here. Bye. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Fobtapp.
- [51:57]
E
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