Marissa Meltzer (4:03)

Thank you for having me again.

Lauren Sherman (4:05)

Welcome back.

Marissa Meltzer (4:07)

I mean, I've been at home this whole time, but yes, I'm happy to be back in the world of the Line Sheet Fashion People universe.

Lauren Sherman (4:15)

What have you been up to during this holiday break?

Marissa Meltzer (4:19)

I think I thrived too close to the sun during holiday parties and I was, I was actually sick in a way that is not the kind I. I have epilepsy and had a seizure and ended up in the hospital. So I had sort of like a dark and weird Christmas, but I'm fine.

Lauren Sherman (4:36)

Oh my God. During a holiday party or like post holidays, of course.

Marissa Meltzer (4:40)

No, the most, the most tragic and embarrassing part of it is that it was front in front of Jack's wife.

Lauren Sherman (4:45)

Frida on Lafayette SoHo. Yeah, well, at least you probably knew 15 people standing.

Marissa Meltzer (4:51)

Well, I don't even remember it because part of having seizures is you kind of have like. So I remember leaving Italy and then I woke up in an ambulance, but whatever. Jack's wife, Frida angel that called the ambulance also made sure all my Eataly groceries were sent home to New York Presbyterian with me. So I was Set. So, yeah, I was eating like, eggplant parm and recovering for most of the holidays.

Lauren Sherman (5:19)

So. I'm so sorry. Did you buy yourself anything as. As a reward for.

Marissa Meltzer (5:25)

Great question. I haven't, but that's only because I'm going to Paris in mid January for two weeks and intend to, you know, like, take out all of my, you know, my desire to be nurtured on the French sale season.

Lauren Sherman (5:46)

Is there anything you're looking for in particular? Particular?

Marissa Meltzer (5:50)

Well, I have a really good sales girl at the Chanel and Cambon and I just like to look forward to. However, she's going to abuse me and tempt me. I feel open to, like, surprise and delight. Like, I want. I don't want a basic. Like, I want, I don't know, like a skirt that really makes me happy or. I mean, I always go to re. See and get some something vintage. Maddie, my girl there is amazing and she always brings out an array of things. Yeah, I think. I mean, I always buy underwear. I am going to a certain French dermatologist and, you know, plan.

Lauren Sherman (6:34)

Fortunately, we cannot share this name with anyone else. No. But I will be sorry, everybody.

Marissa Meltzer (6:39)

And this is the hard line. I'm starting a beauty substandard, and I do have many other French and American friends who can share the names of their French masseuses, dermatologists in house, waxers, whatever. So those will be going in there.

Lauren Sherman (6:55)

Marissa, I'm so excited that you're starting a beauty substack. Congratulations. Can you share any information? Do you have the name of it yet?

Marissa Meltzer (7:02)

Yeah, it's called Soft Power.

Lauren Sherman (7:05)

So good.

Marissa Meltzer (7:05)

And it's Marissa melter.subtech.com Mom, it's like I was listening to a podcast, celebrity book club, where Stephen and Lily were talking about forehand massages and, like, wondering if they were good. And the whole time I was like, not only have I had forehand massages, but I've had six hand massages, and I actually think forehand is better. And, like, was having this whole, you know, conversation with them in my head and. And that's when I realized that, you know, the classic thing of. Of expertise that I have that I. That I totally take for granted because I have been to spas on every continent but Antarctica that I can share and explore. And I love fashion, I love shopping substacks. There's kind of not anything like that for beauty. And I think, at least for me, I'm a little more omnivorous and open with beauty. Like, I'm more open to trying things. It's often a cheaper point of entry. I have more questions, I have more musings. You know, like I like to talk about the new designer at like Balenciaga or Bottega but I'm, I'm not that client so I'm not actually buying it. Whereas if you tell me any skin tightening or like, you know, freckle reducing or like new sunscreen, I absolutely will buy it and try it. So yeah, so it's, it's for that.

Lauren Sherman (8:37)

I'm so excited personally. I was actually talking to another beauty editor who DM me last night I posted something on Instagram that you and I were talking about. I was looking, I Googled like eyeshadow trends. Yes. I saw that over 40 and which I guess the over 40. What does that mean today means nothing. But I really couldn't find much about. I found one Birdie article by R D I E and one Harper's Bazaar about makeup trends but I just couldn't find anything. Like I, I would like to wear, I have two eyeshadows and thought oh, it might be interesting. What kinds of eyeshadows are available? What there is no information. And yeah, another beauty editor DM me and said, who's around in our generation? I really want to start a substack. But she doesn't feel like she can do it really regularly. I said if you do it once or twice a month, I think it's honestly enough the one weekly. If you can do weekly it's great and I think you'll make more money. The one I like is how not to fuck up your face.

Marissa Meltzer (9:48)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (9:49)

Which is. I think she was the beauty editor Mal Monroe.

Marissa Meltzer (9:52)

She was at. Oh yeah.

Lauren Sherman (9:53)

At.

Marissa Meltzer (9:53)

Oh, she's wonderful. Hers is a little more musing oriented and I think I want this one to be a little more service in the sort of service journalism mode of like, you know, like Jean Godfrey, June and Lucky kind of thing of like here is this perfume that smells like sunscreen in the most beautiful way possible and it's going to make you feel like you're in San Tropez or like, you know, again like can you wear blue eyeshadow if you remember the 80s.

Lauren Sherman (10:26)

Exactly.

Marissa Meltzer (10:27)

It's not so much for like the aged. Even though I am 47, like these are things that I'm concerned about. But I also want to talk to other people and you know, I want to talk to like, you know, I have a notoriously wide ranging social life and friend group and I have, you know, people that I'm dear to me that are 80 and that are, you know, 18 and so. And I think beauty concerns. There are less hard lines. Right. Like, it's not like you can't do this when you're this age. But it's. For me, it's more like, does eyeshadow suit me? If I'm get. If I. If I'm gonna go from 0 to 100 with eyeshadow, is that what I want to do? Like, you know, it's more like, how do I look like myself, but still experiment. But also the questions that everyone asks, like, where I have to send some. I have to, like, thank someone and I want to get them a massage in San Francisco. Where do I go?

Lauren Sherman (11:27)

Sure. I think the big thing for me, because I read magazines a lot. We all grew up reading magazines. I learned to do makeup from reading magazines. And yes, there would be one or two photos, but it was really like, this is. You put blush on the apples of your cheek. I am not watching what I did. Promptly after searching and could not find any information about what eyeshadows are available in the world. I went on TikTok and honestly, everybody looks awful. Like, at my friend, I messaged a friend and I said, I can't believe you look at these TikToks all the time. Everyone is so ugly. Like, it doesn't matter the age they look. And it's, you know, no, I content. And I don't want that. Like, I don't want.

Marissa Meltzer (12:14)

All have blush blindness. There's so much blush. They're wearing so much concealer. Like, it just seems.

Lauren Sherman (12:20)

It's.

Marissa Meltzer (12:21)

It's not the way that would feel good to my skin. They're insane. Like, lip liner is crazy right now. No one. Everyone looks wild. Lip liner bad.

Lauren Sherman (12:32)

And it. And it's not. Like, the thing is, it's not a.

Marissa Meltzer (12:35)

You're right.

Lauren Sherman (12:36)

It's not an age thing. It's just like, I would love to.

Marissa Meltzer (12:38)

Just an aesthetic thing.

Lauren Sherman (12:39)

Some, like, really pretty girls putting some fun eyeshadow wash on their eyelids and see. And knowing I ended up going to Target and I bought a colourpop palette.

Marissa Meltzer (12:50)

Okay, great. This can be a future collaboration thing where we can talk about your color. My thing with eyeshadow, too, is, like, where does it go? Like, where does it stop? I have a lot of lid.

Lauren Sherman (13:02)

Yeah. And also, like, is. Are there dust? Like, I would. Should I try a blue eyeshadow? But is there some sort of, like, shimmery one that is subtle or whatever? And there's just no information and just as like. You're totally right. You look at Laura, Riley, Leandra, Becky as the, like three. The triumph.

Marissa Meltzer (13:22)

Amelia.

Lauren Sherman (13:22)

Shopping Amelia. But Amelia is more of a replacement reporter. She.

Marissa Meltzer (13:25)

That's true. She is a reporter.

Lauren Sherman (13:27)

Yeah. But like you, we need people to be writing about beauty in a. Like you said, in a. In a constructive way where.

Marissa Meltzer (13:37)

Yeah, exactly.

Lauren Sherman (13:37)

I would just like to know what some. And I don't notice that on the street as much as, like, Verena Von Fetten will wear blue eyeliner, but she's the only person I know who experiments with eye makeup. Yeah.

Marissa Meltzer (13:51)

I mean, I want to be able to experiment, but, like, not either look like a dowager or look like I'm trying to look like a euphoria teen. Yeah. And. Yeah. And again, like, I. There's just not a lot of that. And I have plenty. I don't want to, you know, like Rachel Stugrat's wonderful beauty reporter. I'm not trying to do that. I have a lot of outlets to write about to be a journalist, and I'm not going to stop that. But this is somewhere for me to kind of imitate the conversations I have in my group chats. And totally, you know, like, my best friend, who is gay, is really into this tinted pink Hermes lip balm stain. And, like, it just makes him look like he has naturally rosy pink lips. And it's like, I'm really also interested in the conversation of, like, are men gonna wear makeup? Where should they start? Like, what's. How do you tiptoe into that world? Like, I just think there's a lot of. Yeah, it's just. I wanna replicate fun conversations. And also, you know, sort of a rare. People say they always hear my voice in my writing, which is wonderful, but, like, somewhere for me to write where I truly just sound like myself.

Lauren Sherman (15:08)

Well, Marissa, I can't wait for soft power. This is also journalism as just a different kind of.

Marissa Meltzer (15:12)

No, it is. It's service journalism. There's just very few of those places left.

Lauren Sherman (15:17)

I'm very excited. Subscribe. Everybody get on that. Thanks. So you are on today to talk about the big stories of the year. And I sent you a very, very long list. We're not going to get through all of these. Some of them are extremely boring, and some of them we're just going to. I think we should just power through the ones that I. I think we should. You and I should focus on big time.

Marissa Meltzer (15:42)

But I wanted to start with.

Lauren Sherman (15:44)

Which one do you want to start with?

Marissa Meltzer (15:46)

Favorite purchase of the year?

Lauren Sherman (15:48)

Let's.

Marissa Meltzer (15:48)

Yeah, let's.

Lauren Sherman (15:49)

I think what we should do is actually go from no, we should start with favorite purchase of the year and end with the big cuz that happened at the end of the year and that one is. And a lot of these in the middle are boring and we're going to just go through them super fast. But. So what was the best thing you bought this year?

Marissa Meltzer (16:06)

I think the best thing I bought this year was partly because I manifested it a little bit, but aforementioned best friend Matthew, I was talking to him about how I needed a bag that was like a daily shoulder bag, tote bag, but not like tote bag, tote bag. And he was like, what you need is an Hermes picotin in a neutral color in like the biggest size possible that you'd have to custom order. So just keep an eye on one on like a resale site and re. See had one that then sold, but then the person decided not to keep it. So I got it for a great price. It's like Kaizen, which is there a sort of like purpley brown color. It's huge. I had it with me when I had a seizure. Remains great. I had a bouche de Noel inside it. It all was fine and it was great. I got a great price. It's, you know, it's unbranded. It's like if, you know, you know, like a very chic woman stopped me on Lexington a few weeks ago and was like, where did you get a picotown that size? And I was like secondhand. So that. That was my favorite. And also, I don't believe in cost per wear necessarily, but. But this is a true utility piece for me. You know, I put groceries in it. It's my daily driver. And so, yeah, it was great because it wanted it. I found it and I use it all the time. What was yours?

Lauren Sherman (17:38)

I also got an Hermes bag. I don't know if it was. It was. It was my 2025.

Marissa Meltzer (17:43)

Wait, let me guess. Plume.

Lauren Sherman (17:47)

I. You know, I wanted a plume for a long time.

Marissa Meltzer (17:50)

I want a plume.

Lauren Sherman (17:51)

A bolide.

Marissa Meltzer (17:52)

Oh, that was gonna be my second love. Bolide.

Lauren Sherman (17:56)

No, in their, like in their lipstick red.

Marissa Meltzer (18:00)

Oh, I want the plume in like a red or a burgundy.

Lauren Sherman (18:07)

I love the plume. I wanted forever. I've been looking for a bag to take to lunch in Los Angeles, which is a bag to take to the Sunset Tower, San Vicente Bungalows, and the Polo Lounge. The only places I have lunch. Work lunches.

Marissa Meltzer (18:23)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (18:23)

And I. I wanted something smaller that would not fit. A laptop.

Marissa Meltzer (18:27)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (18:28)

Because I have like a very cool Hermes tote From the Margiela era. Leather that I. My laptop fits well in and I have an Isaac Rayna laptop bag. I don't need that. And also in la, you don't need.

Marissa Meltzer (18:38)

Picotin fits my laptop, which is nice. But yeah, I want, I want a plume in like a non laptop. More like a ladies hand handbag, but also not a mini.

Lauren Sherman (18:48)

Yes. So, so this is I think 20. It was 25 or 30. It's, it's small and. Or 20, 25 or 28. And I said to my husband and look like these are, this is still more affordable than buying a bag at retail at any luxury brand.

Marissa Meltzer (19:06)

Absolutely. It's kind of wild how not that they're cheap but when, but like buying that kind of Hermes is sometimes cheaper than buying like Loewe.

Lauren Sherman (19:20)

It is. It was cheaper than buying a Loewe.

Marissa Meltzer (19:22)

Definitely cheaper than like a Bottega and.

Lauren Sherman (19:25)

Just half the price.

Marissa Meltzer (19:26)

Yeah. And bless everyone that has and wants those bags. I live close to those boutiques, I walk by them, I get it. But I'd rather have a, you know, kind of a low key Hermes than like a Marnie bag any day of the week.

Lauren Sherman (19:42)

A friend of mine, I had it out and she was like, is that back?

Marissa Meltzer (19:45)

Tod's honestly like that is like, you.

Lauren Sherman (19:49)

Know what, that's kind of a compliment.

Marissa Meltzer (19:50)

Yeah, that's, that's actually the kind of compliment I want to receive. It's like if, if someone is like wonders if like a shearling coat is like your grandmother's or something.

Lauren Sherman (20:01)

Totally. So what I said to my husband, I was like, look, my husband, God bless him, one of the best men to ever live. The worst gift giver alive, like is.

Marissa Meltzer (20:12)

And I'm all straight men. The worst.

Lauren Sherman (20:14)

No, he's really bad. Actually.

Marissa Meltzer (20:16)

You know what? My friend Chloe's husband Ian is a wonderful gift giver.

Lauren Sherman (20:20)

It's just not. He doesn't care. Like it's not. They didn't grow up getting gifts for me. Like gifts are my. I don't want to use this phrase but love language. Like it really matters to me. And I've as we've been together for eight, 17 or 18 years, like it doesn't matter as much as it used to and I don't like value them in the same way. But if I didn't buy him a present for Christmas, he wouldn't notice. Like one year I just didn't buy him anything and it like did not register. So I said to him, I was like, look, you could just buy me this now and then. I won't ask for anything else until next Christmas. And he said great and bought it for me. So. But what I would say from my own purchases, I was thinking I did not buy that much stuff this year.

Marissa Meltzer (21:06)

I would say that I bought. I bought an apartment this year, which was really a big ticket item.

Lauren Sherman (21:12)

Yeah, I bought a black Alaia dress at the boutique in last February. And that I would say is the thing that I feel like, yeah, I.

Marissa Meltzer (21:23)

Bought a block Goliath sweater last January and it made me feel so good.

Lauren Sherman (21:29)

It was like, yeah, I'm so happy I bought it. It was like the experience was amazing. The value or whatever. I'm.

Marissa Meltzer (21:38)

Wait, your experience was amazing? I have to say, I don't know if it was the time of day, but I was like taking nothing but abuse. But in my masochistic way, I loved having the alive people piece. So sort of like dismissive and like, kept forgetting to find sizes for me. And I sort of love that when people aren't obsequious and treat me like trash.

Lauren Sherman (22:00)

What did you go to the one in the Marais or the one.

Marissa Meltzer (22:02)

No, I went to the one in the eighth.

Lauren Sherman (22:06)

Okay, that's the one I went to. To that she did say to me, you should try these dresses on, not that one. And. And I tried them all. But she was right. Like, the dress I bought is not a dress I would have ever chosen for myself. And I. What I would say is it's. It's like a crew neck with. It's not a muscle tee or whatever.

Marissa Meltzer (22:28)

But it's like almost like a sleeve or like it's not cap sleeve.

Lauren Sherman (22:32)

It's just. I know you're talking about sleeveless shell and that is not my silhouette at all. I never. I wear like in the summer. I actually do have a couple muscles use but I would never wear like a fitted T shirt sleeveless shirt style dress. But the. It fit me perfectly and it. It was. I ended up buying another Alaia dress later in the year that was like more my personal style. And that one's great, but it's much trendier and I'll wear it a bunch. And I've worn more I can like.

Marissa Meltzer (23:00)

The other one is time you from Laia in Paris in a few weeks and we can discuss if there's anything that I need to, you know, import.

Lauren Sherman (23:09)

I mean, it's so beautiful. There are two dresses I have my eye on right now.

Marissa Meltzer (23:12)

I think I saw one of them and I have in fact tried it on or maybe just the skirt version. And Honestly, no regrets. The sweater I bought, I wear all the time. I'm really into power knits for 2024 and I'm gonna get more into a power knit.

Lauren Sherman (23:28)

I love it. Okay. So I'm really happy for you with your Hermes bag. I'm happy for me with my Hermes bag and my Alaia dresses.

Marissa Meltzer (23:36)

Yeah, we're a lying.

Unknown Speaker 4 (23:42)

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Jenna Fischer (24:12)

I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey. We are best friends and together we have the podcast Office Ladies where we rewatched every single episode of the Office with insane behind the scenes stories, hilarious guests and lots of laughs.

Lauren Sherman (24:26)

Guess who's sitting next to me? Steve in the studio.

Jenna Fischer (24:34)

Every Wednesday we'll be sharing even more exclusive stories from the Office and our friendship with brand new guests. And we'll be digging into our mailbag to answer your questions and comments. So join us for brand new Office Ladies 6.0 episodes every Wednesday. Plus on Mondays we are taking a second drink. You can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes every Monday with with new bonus tidbits before every episode. Well, we can't wait to see you there. Follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odysee app and wherever you get your podcasts.

Lauren Sherman (25:14)

Let's zip through this. So we're gonna do really, really fast and then there are a few that I wanna go a little bit deeper. So first thing, year in beauty, you mentioned our beloved Rachel Strugatz, a Plex beauty correspondent. She broke a million stories this year. The big thing was the Estee Lauder CEO who is starting in early January. She said he was leaving. They denied it that, that the current CEO was out. It ended up being true. She did it all. She tracked the whole thing. You should all read her stuff. The thing that I wanted to ask you about was. And you reached out to me about this as well and Rachel sort of answered it in our mailbag, but it was about glossier. And glossier was they had, they had reportedly engaged a banker last year or 2024. So still this year we have one more day and they didn't sell. Glossier, did not sell, didn't go to public, which, I mean, no, no, Surprise on that front. But what do you think's gonna happen with Glossier? Do you think there was a big return of Glossier this year with the hit, hit fragrances and just the idea that the brand was really back. They entered Sephora, you wrote a book about Glossier that was a bestseller, and Glossier and. And so what did you think about Glossier's trajectory this year?

Marissa Meltzer (26:35)

I think they, you know, did everything right to orchestrate the feel of a turnaround in that they gave very sort of targeted, very sort of on brand interviews and profiles. They're expanding, you know, new iterations of the fragrance, which is definitely like where their, I think power is currently coming from. It was a really soft year for, you know, acquisition. So I don't know that I'm surprised, but I also feel like if I were one of the investors, I would want that return. You know, now it's been over 10 years and so I would imagine it would be next year. But again, if you look at some of Rachel's reporting those numbers, you know that she's estimating more like a 300 million. They're about sale. If you really go by the numbers, that's not the most, you know, ego boosting or flattering number. And I guess the question I would think is do you, do you. Hold on. Do you try to, you know, boost the brand even further or do you, you know, try to try to sell now? And I am, you know, I'm glad that's not my decision to make. My guess is that they, they will sell in 2025, assuming that the, the, that the, you know, environment is friendly. But I, I don't know. I also think things could go weird this year.

Lauren Sherman (28:18)

Yeah, I look, best of luck to them. I'm not convinced that this quote unquote turnaround is real.

Marissa Meltzer (28:27)

Yeah, it is. I just, I think the fragrance did well, but I'm not sure that that's enough. And I just don't. Nothing ever going to live up to that, you know, well over one billion dollar valuation from whatever it was 2021.

Lauren Sherman (28:43)

Look, they should have sold in 2000. Yeah.

Marissa Meltzer (28:46)

And I think that's why, you know, that's why Emily is gone. And that's a lesson to, I think everyone. But they're never going to get a number like that. And I guess, you know, the question is, what are they willing to settle for?

Lauren Sherman (29:00)

Yeah, I mean, they might get it, but. But it's just not gonna mean as much as it once did. And then the other thing is like, the distribution has Helped with sales and all that. It's like, is the fundamental, the product good? I mean, was it ever good?

Marissa Meltzer (29:15)

Is that the point?

Lauren Sherman (29:16)

Do they have. Yeah. So like, who knows? Maybe if they have five more years, they'll. There's always a chance. Retail is cyclical. You can turn it around. I'm not convinced that the current iteration of Glossier is as on track as.

Marissa Meltzer (29:34)

They would agree to believe.

Lauren Sherman (29:36)

And that like comes. That's not from my reporting. Rachel's reporting is super. I would say non opinionated about Glossier. Like she's very like, this is what's. She's very neutral about Glossier in particular. And I would say my gut from like a brand building perspective is that the brand is not exactly where it needs to be. So maybe they'll do it, maybe they won't.

Marissa Meltzer (30:01)

Also, Marie Suter leaving, that's huge. She's so instrumental to the look and feel of the brand. It's another sort of core person to go. So, yeah.

Lauren Sherman (30:15)

Okay. So we gotta move on though, because we have way more. Okay, really, really quick one. Department store craziness. Farfetch sold to Coupang Matches shut down. Euclid Porter Group sold to my Teresa Saks acquired Neiman Marcus Group and Nordstrom is going private. So basically all multi brand retail. It was total chaos. Do you still shop in any of these stores? And do you care?

Marissa Meltzer (30:44)

I mean, that's what I was going to say until you can make the expense experience like shopping at Bon Marche in Paris. I know I'm such a francophile, but that is truly probably the only department store that is a pleasant and shopping experience where you can also buy a lot of different brands at once. It's peaceful. The people who work there seem knowledgeable, you know, I just don't. That's not replicated anywhere. I was in, I was at Saks the other day and Bloomingdale's the other day just to buy something as utilitarian as hosiery. And they didn't even. They acted like me asking for ribbed cotton tights was like wild and unheard of. And I, I know that I'm not the only one. So, you know, until you give me a better shopping experience, I don't know that it matters. What about you?

Lauren Sherman (31:35)

No, I agree. I, I love Le Bon Marche also. I love some of the smaller multibrand retailers. But even at a place like La Garcon, which I love, the experience of shopping there isn't great. I think I maybe told the story on the podcast. Another, Another day or I just Was talking to a friend who knows all runs together. But I. When I was last in New York, I went there on Sunday afternoon and we had a very short amount of time. I was there with my husband and kid and I wanted to try on a pair of jeans from a brand I had never heard of and a couple shirts and a pair of shoes from the Row. Honestly, I probably would have bought all of it or at least made one impulse purchase. And the guy was like, it's gonna take me like a half an hour to go get this stuff. And I said, see ya. I'm not taking. I said, put it together, I'll come back tomorrow. I never went back. So I think the big thing for.

Marissa Meltzer (32:26)

Me is not want me to spend money. Yeah, yeah. And you're not alone with experiences like that, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (32:33)

And the, the challenge for these retailers is they don't stock cotton rib tights because they're not going to sell a lot of those in store. You can only buy them online through their drop ship marketplaces. But the problem is when you need a pair of tights, you go to a store. Like that's why you go. So they need to calibrate. Yeah, like they need to calibrate what you, what you should stock versus what's available online. And it's, it's really challenging. I don't know who's going to do it. Maybe the Nordstrom brothers and cousin can figure it out. I grew up shopping Nordstrom.

Marissa Meltzer (33:07)

It has a, you know, real dear place. To my dear place.

Lauren Sherman (33:10)

It's fabulous. So did you know that Alessandra went to Valentino in 2024? It's only been that long.

Marissa Meltzer (33:18)

No, I think, I'm pretty sure it happened like five years ago at this point.

Lauren Sherman (33:22)

What do you think of Valentina? Alessandro's Alessandro, Michele's Valentino. So far.

Marissa Meltzer (33:30)

I think it's for someone, it's not me, but that's okay. Most things aren't. I think it does look different from Gucci, but I can still see him in it. I think it's a little too referential of vintage. I would like to see it, you know, look a little less recreation. I think that the outerwear is strong, I think the shoes are strong. I think it will probably do well, but I don't know if the people that want to buy it will be able to afford it.

Lauren Sherman (34:09)

Agree with all of that. Shoes and bags are really, really strong. I do believe they'll hit, but it's going to take a while. And I think the ready to wear is beautifully done. I like it a lot more than his Gucci. It is not. None of it's for me. I think the shoes are great and I, I someday may engage but it's going to take a minute. But so far one thing I will say is that in person the clothes look a million times better than they look photographed. And, and so that is one thing that they're going to really need to engage people in store and former Gucci clients who are going to be paying way more Valentino's way more expensive but also old Valentino clients who, who will find something in there and then new clients who will buy the, the shoes.

Marissa Meltzer (34:58)

I'd like to see less self indulgent styling like show a little bit of the range of the more neutral pieces or you know, styled God forbid in a department store with other brands or something.

Lauren Sherman (35:10)

Yeah. So other big news was that Zach Posen became the chief creative officer of Old Navy and the creative advisor or that's the wrong title but advisor to the CEO of Gap Inc. And is doing a collection with Gap has just become. He's designed denim dresses for the Runway or not the Runway. The red carpet met Gala. Let's zoom out and just look at like the rise of mall brands. Gap, Abercrombie. What do you think of that whole trend towards these brands that have been trying to like make fetch happen for the last 20 years are finally of interest again to the consumer. Do you think that the Gap revival is real or do you think that this is just another blip?

Marissa Meltzer (35:58)

It's hard to tell if any of this is real because when you go on Gap or J. Crew, everything is so permanently marked down and on sale. I, I don't know if that's part of their business model or if they're truly just not doing well. But you know, I, I see people in New York City buying it for the first time in years. I like those Troye Svon jeans. I think that the like holiday ad campaign was really smart. It brought back some of Those, you know, late 90s, early aughts, Gap campaigns that I think we have so many sort of fond memories of. But it's a hard, it's a, it's a hard job. It's, it's a hard task. I don't know if any of those brands will ever, you know, be what they were 25 years ago. And I don't know if just something else is replacing them or if, you know, if, if that's just like skims or people buying, wearing sweatpants. I Mean, I think that there's a certain amount of doom for all of these brands when the sort of de facto airport casual wear no longer has, you know, a button. It's all, you know, stretchy fabric, sweatpants, leggings, et cetera. And I don't know that people are ever going to really turn back. So when denim is something that you wear sort of to dress up, I just don't know if it can have the ubiquity that it once had or the cultural importance.

Lauren Sherman (37:33)

100%. Yeah. And Sarah Shapiro, later this week online, she has a little piece about. I said to her, can you just look into. I finally. I still haven't bought anything, but there's these brands. Lisette, Floor, Floor. She mentioned something called Sold out that a friend of mine actually, I believe consults for that I only knew vaguely. And there are a couple other ones. And negative underwear has loungewear. There's something going on where there's like, all thin T shirt. This is not. This is not my vibe. Like, I like a star T shirt, so. And I like structure to my T shirt. So I have not bought a floor, floor or shirt or whatever. It's. They're a little too liquidy for me. But there is something. You're exactly right. And these brands need to be a lot smaller than they are. And I think the. The challenge in the market is when you do try to kind of recapture magic, it never feels good. And it's kind of the same thing that glossier is dealing with right now. You have to, like, totally reinvent and divorce yourself from whatever that was, even if you. It has a same spirit. And so that's. It's challenging, but it's interesting to see all that stuff pop again. So Devil Wears Prada sequel. Do you care?

Marissa Meltzer (38:48)

I was on. We've discussed this a great deal. I absolutely care. I mean, again, it's this whole idea of looking back and trying to capture original magic and fan service and all of those things. Part of me, you know, wants more sort of original new content, moving culture forward. But also part of me is like, you know, give me the montage of girls getting ready to suddenly I see or whatever, and, you know, bring Miranda Priestley and the whole thing back. Let's do it. I'll obviously, I'll not only be begging to get into a press screening, and I'll, like, beg all my editors just assign me, you know, profiles of all the actors. Let's do it.

Lauren Sherman (39:34)

Cannot. I cannot wait for the credits in that movie.

Marissa Meltzer (39:40)

Oh, my God.

Lauren Sherman (39:41)

And how the battle. I. That's the story. Yeah, yeah. Battle for the credits. So another comeback. So story or soon to be comeback story. Do you think Nike can regain its cultural capital after a massive loss in like the span 2020? Nike's the biggest brand in the world that will never die. 2024, Nike is the weakest brand in the world that is so lost. I feel like this is a different story than. And you mentioned the discounting and Nike dealt with this too. Like they started discounting a lot. I think you're. It is a part of the business model of these small brands and it is also not good. Yeah, so it is a part of the business model and it's not good. Like it makes it much harder for them to be profitable. And. And Nike got. Part of Nike's issue in the last four years is that they got into the discounting thing in a bad way and they were not in it before. They ran more like a luxury brand where you only go on sale occasionally.

Marissa Meltzer (40:50)

Or, or I think they can, I think they can get there. I mean, to me it's, it's less of. It's less akin to the Gap and more like Marvel where, you know, they've had a few weaker years with movies, but I'm sure, you know, they're sort of. There's. They might make adjustments, but I think they will get to the top again. I don't know why I'm saying this because all my Marvel knowledge is basically from listening to the Town, but I think that Nike can have a similar sort of comeback story. I don't think it's. I don't think it's something that can happen within the year. I think it's going to take time. I think this sort of long tail, I think it's going to have a longer tail. I think, you know, other brands like Adidas, you know, a 6 or Puma are going to still have moments to get bigger and sort of touch into the glory, but Nike will get there maybe the next Olympic cycle in the summer or something like that.

Lauren Sherman (41:51)

All my Marvel knowledge is from the big picture.

Marissa Meltzer (41:54)

Well, that, I mean, I look into that too. So that's also.

Lauren Sherman (41:58)

But they're both ringer podcasts and the Town is obviously hosted by Puck Entertainment guy, Matt Bellany.

Marissa Meltzer (42:06)

But two things you're not mentioning Amanda, friend of both of ours, friend of.

Lauren Sherman (42:11)

The big picture is Amanda is my guiding light in the movie business, but her and her co host Sean Fennesee. Amanda, I think cares a little bit more about Marvel than we Do. I don't know much, but they talk about it all the time.

Marissa Meltzer (42:25)

He professionally cares about Marvel. No one's paying me to care about Marvel.

Lauren Sherman (42:28)

And what I would say is I think that Marvel's. You really like. Like I really. Nobody cares. Yeah. This stuff's over. It's. It. The culture has shifted. It's done. There's going to be something else and they'll still make some money, like with all this stuff, but it's not going to be. This is not the. This is not the answer.

Marissa Meltzer (42:46)

Huh. I think I beg to differ, but I'd like to be proven wrong.

Lauren Sherman (42:50)

It's all cyclical and maybe 20 years from now it'll come back. But I think that there's. Honestly, it's like horror films. That's what makes my money in movies now. You'd like make a cheap horror. You make heretic or whatever movies.

Marissa Meltzer (43:04)

I'm never gonna say, oh really? You don't see them? They like every single one.

Lauren Sherman (43:07)

Oh no. Oh no, I'm not. I never. I was not. I was allowed to watch whatever I wanted growing up in like a really appropriate way, except for horror.

Marissa Meltzer (43:15)

Oh, see, I was allowed to watch everything.

Lauren Sherman (43:17)

So I just have no interest in them. But the thing I will say about Nike, first of all, I sent you this Wind Runner jacket. The Nike Wind Runner women's loose, UV woven full. This jacket's awesome and I need to get it, but I just keep waiting because a, I want to get it on sale. And also it is in a green on sale, but I just need to figure out how I'm going to wear it. It's really good. I feel like I saw a Japanese girl on my Instagram wearing it. She bought it in New York in green with all black and it looks so good. I might get it in green, I might get it in navy. I might get. Get it in this like taupe color. It's a really good jacket. But the thing I will say, and this is comes up again and again and again with people in Europe. A friend of mine was in town from London. We were talking about it. All rich people wear are on running sneakers and ho. Yes. And that flipped four years ago. You see everybody wearing Nikes, the Adidas. And that's a trend. Like the everybody wearing sambas. Like that's a teenager thing. That's normal. Rich people buy on. And I by rich people, I mean anyone who can own a home. Like they all buy on running or hookah.

Marissa Meltzer (44:32)

But does Nike need that population?

Lauren Sherman (44:36)

I think they do.

Marissa Meltzer (44:37)

You think they do it can't get by with the teenagers and the young.

Lauren Sherman (44:41)

People of the world, not at that size of a business. And also they were so unique in that. Like, everybody liked Nike. Everybody thought Nike was a good brand. And now people are like, they don't consider it. It needs to be. Because the thing is, if kids don't grow up with their parents have Nikes at the front of the door, they're not gonna know about it. And of course you adopt, but then that's just a trend and it's fleeting. It's not, not like a part of your life. Whereas Levi's are part of everyone's life. Like they're never gonna leave. Like everybody. You just know that that's. The Nikes used to be like that.

Marissa Meltzer (45:23)

Are people buying new Levi's though?

Lauren Sherman (45:25)

I do sometimes.

Marissa Meltzer (45:26)

Okay.

Lauren Sherman (45:27)

Yeah. I mean they have a. They. It's not perfect, but it's. They have good. It's. It's still the. Like Kleenex.

Marissa Meltzer (45:35)

No, I mean, I wear Levi's, but my. I buy them vintage because I'm an asshole. And also, you know.

Lauren Sherman (45:41)

No, me too. But like, I also have ones. I, I mix it up. Okay, so that, that was interesting. Okay, this one is fun. The Olsen's raising for the row at $1 billion valuation from the family that owns Chanel. Shout out the Wertheimers, the Betancourt Myers family, some of whom are the heirs to the L'Oreal fortune. And then also Imaginary Ventures, the only venture capital firm that understands fashion, Natalie Massine and Nick Brown. And then to top it all off, Lauren Santo Domingo makes an investment. It's a murderer's row. So what do you think happens to the Row now?

Marissa Meltzer (46:28)

From the point of view of a long time time Row fan and consumer? I'm not sure it's. It's going to be good. I think that, you know, they'll probably get bigger. There'll be more stores. They'll all be incredibly beautiful. I worry that it'll be hard to maintain the quality. You know, those sweaters that used to, used to be able to wear forever without pilling. I wonder if that will keep happening. I wonder if they'll break down and do something more mass, like, you know, a fragrance beyond that, like oils they once did or something like that. You know, one of my fantasies was, you know, for the Olsens to get hired at Chanel, which I knew wasn't going to happen and shouldn't happen, but you know, would have loved to see that. I'd like to see the Row Go into, you know, some new directions. I think it's looking a bit samey. I'd like to see them play a little bit more with, you know, within their own realm of silhouette or color or texture, whatever excites them. I'd like to see their Carolyn Kennedy in Yoji Yamamoto interpretation a little bit, you know, more frequently. What do you think do you think is going to happen? I'm sad saying that I don't think good things are going to happen but it rarely is good.

Lauren Sherman (47:54)

It's hard and, and I'm already hearing people being like big clients of theirs being like ah, it all looks the same, I don't want it anymore, blah blah, blah. I mean this is what happens to, to brands. They have a huge business in China that's going really well. I got that intel a couple weeks ago. We'll probably write about it at some point so they have a lot of room to grow.

Marissa Meltzer (48:16)

If anyone would like to send both of us to China to report on the road's growth and dominance, I'd love we're both.

Lauren Sherman (48:24)

I'm definitely using my travel oh I'd.

Marissa Meltzer (48:27)

For that someone consent but yes, yes.

Lauren Sherman (48:30)

Someone can send Marissa please. I think they the reason they've succeeded is they don't listen to what other people say and they do what they want and they only they take advice carefully and they're careful people and they need to continue being careful people. And so fingers crossed and you know they had a pandemic. Boom. They had a pandemic. At first it was really bad and the business was in trouble and then they had a boom because they were the high end brand for pandemic times. And so now things are changing and so you have to change with the times without losing yourself. So I agree. I would love to see more of the Carolyn Bessette Kennedy Yoji inspiration. Someone mentioned the other day that the first oh Leia Chernikov when she was on last week one of the first mood boards she saw from the row had like Carolyn that type of thing. I think, I think there's something about we are all trying to dress up a little bit more. They can I the last thing I bought from them was like a spot spiky heeled boot that is not super high but it's like a lot sharper and doesn't feel, it doesn't feel arts and science which is a big inspiration for them which is like a crafty Japanese brand. It feels much more like a little more aggressive and I yeah I like.

Marissa Meltzer (49:51)

It when they have kind of wave influences. They do kind of like an early 80s moment sometimes with their shoes.

Lauren Sherman (49:59)

Yes. And what. As they enter their 40s, as we know, like, that is an interesting time for women and. And how they it work wise, this is going to be the biggest 10 years for them life wise. Like one of them has a kid, I think. I don't. So they're married, like, or whatever they are. I don't as you know, I actually don't care about their personal lives. But yeah, I think it's gonna be an interesting time. And again, best of luck to them. I look forward to reporting things they don't want me to report forever. We're not gonna go through the other. The Tapestry Capri merger then break up because they couldn't get it through. You don't really care about that. Right?

Marissa Meltzer (50:46)

I mean, I read it, but I don't think I have anything to say that you haven't said before.

Lauren Sherman (50:52)

I mean. Yeah. Let's see who. Who Tapestry ends up buying. I saw today I get these alerts from Seeking Alpha, which is one of these like stock websites when anything comes up. And some. Apparently the people who own Vera Bradley are trying to get Tapestry to buy it, which I love this idea spring back back. VERA Bradley LVMH SUCCESSION There was a lot of stuff that happened, especially with, you know, the head of HR of LVMH got ousted. This was someone who the kids really battled with. Delphine really had. Delphine Arnaud, the oldest child, had a lot of. A lot of work to do as Dior's. Dior started to have a lot of challenges. Alexandre Arnault had a lot of challenges at Tiffany, but in the end, overall was successful. Successful and was shipped back to. To Paris or. Or brought back. Beckoned back to Paris to help turn around Moet Hennessy, the struggling wine and spirits division. And now he's sort of in the. In the top spot for who might take over for dad because dad needs to retire in five years. Apparently he already pushed back the. Got the French law pushed back so that you could work till you're 80 and he's 75. I think he's gonna get it pushed back another five years. But there's a lot of real succession planning. Tons of Arno deputies have retired or are stepping back or are being moved around. And then the younger kids, Frederick and Jean, they are. Frederick in particular, he runs the family office now. On top of. I think he is the CEO of the Watch.

Marissa Meltzer (52:39)

Honestly, that seems like the best job of all of them. Family office plus watches the family.

Lauren Sherman (52:43)

Yeah, a hundred percent. 100. I mean they all. I think there, you know, there's an M and a team at LVMH, that 70 person team. Like there are all these different. There's a family office, there's a tech fund, there's. There's El Caterton, the private equity. But yes, I agree. I mean that's the one that. And it's a big deal that, that he was given it. So it's very exciting. Most fun thing that I get to write about. Who's your favorite ar? No child.

Marissa Meltzer (53:11)

Delphine.

Lauren Sherman (53:13)

Yeah.

Marissa Meltzer (53:16)

She just seems like the most capable. She has never been spotted at a Trump rally. Yeah, I'm rooting for Delphine. I think yor is a hard job.

Lauren Sherman (53:30)

Yeah. I have to be objective here, as objective, because I really do. This is probably the thing I write about the most and report on the most and you know, but I, you know, you want, you want a smart, capable woman to. My feeling is that they should. None of them should have replaced their dad. That they should break the business up and each run different parts of it. But that's never going to happen. So we'll see. It's going to be a fun five years, possibly ten. One more thing that we need to talk about because we all need to go. Mattoo Blazy, Chanel. This was the biggest. There were a million designer music. There were all these changes. Designer changes. This year. This is the only one that really matters. What, what's your take as a Chanel client and as, and obviously as a.

Marissa Meltzer (54:22)

Observer and reporter on the business? I, I am cautiously optimistic. I want to say, look, I love Steph's theory that she, you know, really debuted on the podcast of Sofia Coppola. That would have been amazing. You know, there are a lot of people that I would sort of fantasy cast for Chanel, but it could have been a lot worse. I'm interested to see what he does. I'm interested to see what he referenced because Virginie in many ways was an iteration of Karl Lagerfeld and his aesthetic. And there's so much more to Chanel than the sort of Chanel of the late 80s. Even though I love that and I love what Karl Lagerfeld did. But, but, you know, the other day I was looking at footage of the actress Romy Schneider trying on Chanel in maybe like 1970, and it's such a different look than what we associate with Chanel now. I mean, there's the house codes, but it's sort of, you know, through the gaze of Coco Chanel and, you know, whoever else, but not Karl Lagerfeld. And so I'm kind of wondering what happens to Chanel when you are truly kind of liberated from some of the references that they've been playing with for so many decades. And that is my hope for him in a long winded way.

Lauren Sherman (55:52)

Yeah, I think Emily Sunberg did an in n out list and she interviewed 500 of her readers for it. And someone said, it's not going to like, this person clearly didn't know how Chanel works and, and said all this stuff about how it's not gonna be as commercially successful boutique. And it's like, look, it'll be critically successful, but not commercially. None of that matters. The commercial stuff is almost completely divorced from the Runway stuff. And the important thing is that he evokes a feeling of wonder, to be honest, and like hope and all of that. And I think he's capable of that. I'm very excited to see what he does. I'm a big fan. I bought a couple of things from Bottega. I agree that it wasn't, you know, it wasn't a lie. It wasn't like I was, I was dropping thousands of dollars that I don't have on, on items for it. It was like very much. I bought two things on sale, but I did really admire it. And that last collection, I adored it. It was, he's, he's very adorable. He's worthy of adoration. And so I, I think like commercially it seems like from shoes, it, Shoes in particular, they really have on lock handbags they will have on lock now that they'll kind of. I think the pricing stuff will, will sort of balance out and they won't go nuts upping the prices constantly. But I am, I'm super hopeful for it and I'm happy they made that decision. Even though it wasn't Sophia, it wasn't Eddie, it wasn't Marc Jacobs. These people who we would have adored to see it was, it was a long term decision and that feels extremely promising and hopeful for the industry. Marissa, this was so great. Happy, happy New Year to you. Happy New Year to you.

Marissa Meltzer (57:54)

I can't wait to see you.

Lauren Sherman (57:56)

Yeah, I can't wait to see you. Thanks for being my buddy on Fashion People and for all your help with so many things and just being a great thought partner.

Marissa Meltzer (58:09)

Love you. Love the audience.

Lauren Sherman (58:11)

Love you. We'll talk soon. Fashion People is a pretty presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.