Virgil’s Design Legacy and the Case for Demna at Gucci

Summary

Title: Virgil’s Design Legacy and the Case for Demna at Gucci
Podcast: Fashion People
Host: Lauren Sherman
Guest: Jesse Lee, Founder of Basic Space and Proprietor of Design Miami
Release Date: April 4, 2025

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Introduction

In the April 4, 2025 episode of Fashion People, host Lauren Sherman welcomes Jesse Lee, the founder of Basic Space and proprietor of Design Miami, to discuss significant shifts within the fashion industry. The conversation centers on Virgil Abloh's profound design legacy and the strategic appointment of Demna Ghazal as the new creative director at Gucci.

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Virgil Abloh's Design Legacy

Jesse Lee opens the discussion by reflecting on the impact of Virgil Abloh in the fashion world. He emphasizes Virgil's forward-thinking approach and his ability to blend luxury with contemporary design.

Jesse Lee ([28:09]): "Virgil was ahead of his time in terms of doing design."

Lee highlights Virgil Abloh's collaborations with prestigious design galleries and his role in setting trends that bridged the gap between high fashion and streetwear. This melding of styles not only elevated Abloh's status but also paved the way for future designers to explore similar intersections.

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The Appointment of Demna Ghazal at Gucci

Shifting focus, the conversation delves into Demna Ghazal's recent appointment at Gucci. Lee shares his perspective on why Demna is an ideal fit for the iconic luxury brand.

Jesse Lee ([46:31]): "Demna is arguably the most creative person."

Lee praises Demna's dual expertise in both design and fashion, noting his deep understanding of cultural contexts and his ability to create pieces that resonate on multiple levels. He discusses the challenges Demna faces in infusing a sense of warmth into Gucci's aesthetic, a characteristic that has been a hallmark of the brand.

Jesse Lee ([48:15]): "Demna understands context and culture and how he was doing this from Switzerland, always back. Did he used to live in like Geneva was based in part time."

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Shifts in Consumer Behavior

Jesse Lee provides insights into the evolving consumer behavior within the luxury market. He observes a trend where consumers are moving away from mass-produced luxury items towards more unique and collectible design pieces.

Jesse Lee ([30:00]): "Design became the next thing because it's harder to replicate and requires more intelligence."

Lee explains that as brands become more ubiquitous, consumers seek out products that offer exclusivity and require a discerning eye to appreciate. This shift emphasizes the importance of design and collectability in maintaining a brand's allure.

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The Role of Design in Luxury Fashion

The discussion transitions to the broader role of design in sustaining the relevance of luxury fashion houses. Lee argues that innovation is crucial for brands to stay ahead in a competitive market.

Jesse Lee ([32:27]): "Innovation often happens when you have constraints."

He contends that established brands, like Gucci, must continually innovate to avoid stagnation. Constraints, whether financial or creative, often spur the most groundbreaking designs and strategies, ensuring that brands do not become complacent.

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The Future of Luxury Retail and Basic Space's Contribution

Jesse Lee introduces his venture, Basic Space, as a curated marketplace that merges design, fashion, and art. He draws parallels between Basic Space and legendary department stores like Barney's, highlighting its role in modernizing luxury retail.

Jesse Lee ([39:24]): "Basic Space is the new Barney's. It's what Opening Ceremony was for me. It's what Colette was for me."

Lee elaborates on how Basic Space caters to a new generation of consumers who seek exclusive, curated experiences both online and offline. By blending vintage pieces with exclusive new designs, Basic Space offers a dynamic shopping environment that appeals to contemporary tastes.

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Concluding Thoughts on Industry Changes

As the episode wraps up, Lee shares his optimism about Demna Ghazal's potential to redefine Gucci's legacy. He underscores the importance of creating designs that are not only aesthetically pleasing but also desirable to a broad audience.

Jesse Lee ([55:36]): "If he can make a Gucci that we all want to buy... he'll go down in history."

Lee expresses confidence that Demna's vision and creativity will steer Gucci towards a new era of success, balancing innovation with the brand's established heritage.

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Notable Quotes

• Jesse Lee on Demna Ghazal:

  "Demna is arguably the most creative person." ([46:31])

• Jesse Lee on Design's Role:

  "Design became the next thing because it's harder to replicate and requires more intelligence." ([30:00])

• Jesse Lee on Basic Space:

  "Basic Space is the new Barney's. It's what Opening Ceremony was for me. It's what Colette was for me." ([39:24])

• Jesse Lee on Demna's Legacy:

  "If he can make a Gucci that we all want to buy... he'll go down in history." ([55:36])

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Conclusion

This episode of Fashion People offers a comprehensive exploration of pivotal moments and figures shaping the current and future landscape of the fashion industry. Through Lauren Sherman and Jesse Lee's engaging dialogue, listeners gain valuable insights into Virgil Abloh's lasting influence and the promising, albeit challenging, path ahead for Demna Ghazal at Gucci. The conversation highlights the necessary balance between innovation and heritage, underscoring the continuous evolution required to thrive in the ever-competitive world of luxury fashion.

Transcript

[Lauren Sherman]

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Are you tired of showing up to dinner parties with the same old uninspired bottle of wine? There has to be a better way to find unique wines that people will actually remember. That's why Psalmsation is a total game changer. Their expert team finds incredible wines from top independent producers, bottles you won't find at your local wine shop. These wines aren't mass produced, they're handcrafted with care, using pure ingredients and meticulous winemaking. And the best part? Sumpsation's curates every selection so you know you're getting wines that are truly special. Whether you want a single bottle, a full wine club membership, or even a guided tasting experience, Psalmsation makes it all easy and enjoyable. Explore [e-mail] FashionPeople hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet, and today with me on the show is Jesse Lee, founder of Basic Space and proprietor of Design Miami. We're discussing everything from the allure of a purvey gas station to the allure of Demna Gucci. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched Roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world and much more. If you're interested listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go to Puck News fashion people to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday everyone. Hope you had a great week. Busy one as usual over here at Puck and specifically Line Sheet. I'm sure you've all heard that Wednesday was Liberation Day. I tried to cover the confusing and murky situation around the tariffs in a way that would actually be interesting and perhaps helpful to readers. Essentially, what I'm understanding is they're still gonna have to engage these companies in Europe and these companies that deal with manufacturing. And everyone needs to work together because everyone needs to make money. So here's hoping as they try to negotiate over the next month that something works out. But reality is everybody's gonna lose a bunch of money and everybody needs to make a lot of money. So let's just hope they can work it out. If not, you know, I'll see you in two years. I also have a bigger story about the crisis of LVMH and caring that's not really about tariffs. It's stuff we've covered before but extremely important and sort of all coming to a head at the moment. And I also get into Radhika Jones's departure from Vanity Fair. Everyone wants to know who the next editor of Vanity Fair is going to be. I got a lot of write ins from Mel Ottenberg that was, I didn't mention him on my, on my Thursday email. But if you check out Fridays, there will be an addition. A lot of people wrote it. I just personally think Mel makes too much money. Like the amount of money they pay someone in one year, I assume he makes on like one campaign. And if you do that job, you can't do those other jobs. So we'll see who knows. Stella Bugby was also a favorite, is also a favorite of mine. Many people mentioned Sarah Moonves. I didn't mention her because I believe she will be and should be the next editor of Vogue. So I will also mention this on Friday. So if you want to read up, check out Thursday, check out Friday. Read line sheet for way more intel. And let's get going with Jesse who texted me this morning to tell me that he sold the most expensive piece at Design Space la. This event where we had this conversation this past weekend. So Jesse is the founder of Basic Space. He also owns Design Miami through his company. And Design Space LA is sort of like a blending of the two. It Was a fair, a design fair, but you could buy pretty much everything. And he said that they sold a prive gas station, which pretty wild. I guess I would buy one if I. If I could. So let's get going. I hope you enjoy this conversation. It was our first live event. I hope we can do many more. If you would like to host one or pay for one, you know where to find me. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Fashion People.

[Jesse Lee]

First time live pod.

[Lauren Sherman]

First time live pod. I'm Lauren Sherman. I am the fashion correspondent at Puck and host of our fashion podcast, Fashion People. And this is Jesse Lee, the reason we're here today.

[Jesse Lee]

Thanks for coming.

[Lauren Sherman]

Thanks for having me. So we have. I've never done a live podcast before, so just bear with us.

[Jesse Lee]

Well, especially not in front of 5,000 people.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes. So many people. This is a good testing ground.

[Jesse Lee]

This is a big theater, by the way.

[Lauren Sherman]

You know, I've been to a screening in this theater.

[Jesse Lee]

What'd you see?

[Lauren Sherman]

I saw Challengers here. It was cool. It was like. I don't go to a lot of those kinds of things, but I did go to a screening of Challengers.

[Jesse Lee]

Oh, yeah. Because there's a lot of Fashion.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. I forget. I think I did ask the low of a people to hook it up. I can't really remember. I went with Hillary Kerr. Oh, cool. Do you know her? She's like in the.

[Jesse Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

In the east side school mix. So. So we start every Friday episode. This is going to run next Friday with the question, what did you have for breakfast?

[Jesse Lee]

Some of the people in here already know the answer, which is nothing. I don't eat breakfast.

[Lauren Sherman]

Do you never eat breakfast on weekends?

[Jesse Lee]

I do. So I'll splurge on Saturday. Sunday. But I have a reason why Monday through Friday I just drink coffee.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay.

[Jesse Lee]

Because I learned years ago, even when I have a salad for lunch, I get tired and I need a second iced coffee. But it still doesn't work. As much as, I don't know, not eating.

[Lauren Sherman]

So when is the first time you eat during the day?

[Jesse Lee]

5:00.

[Lauren Sherman]

Whoa. I thought you said you don't eat breakfast, but you don't eat breakfast or lunch.

[Jesse Lee]

Oh, yeah. So I forgot to say that. So I start with coffee, but I only need one coffee for the whole day.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay.

[Jesse Lee]

And then, well, when I'm traveling, I maybe eat dinner even later. But in LA, as you know, too, we all eat early.

[Lauren Sherman]

5:30.

[Jesse Lee]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

So ideal.

[Jesse Lee]

But I'll literally eat anything and everything in, like, three portions.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay. So you eat a very large Meal?

[Jesse Lee]

Yeah, and then I'll have a glass.

[Lauren Sherman]

Of wine or something sometimes. I want to call this section of the podcast Eating Disorder Corner.

[Jesse Lee]

Mine's more for productivity, though.

[Lauren Sherman]

Look, I know a lot of people.

[Jesse Lee]

Who say they call it intermittent fasting, I guess, but I was doing that before it was called that.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay. Anyway, how did you end up in la?

[Jesse Lee]

So I actually flipped a coin after college, either in New York or la. I grew up mostly in Chicago, went to school out there, and at the time I wanted to be in the music industry and essentially picked la. Cause of the weather, didn't know anyone, then just drove west.

[Lauren Sherman]

I feel like Los Angeles could be very isolating in your 20s, because it's not like you can't just go out to a bar. You can't go walk around. You don't run into people as much.

[Jesse Lee]

No, I actually moved to LA literally at the height of Entourage era. And you just met.

[Lauren Sherman]

Were you in an entourage?

[Jesse Lee]

But we, me and my friends would. I mean, at the time I went out every night, so that's how I know some of these guys. Mark the Cobra Snake, Glengeman, taking photos of us. We were all out every day.

[Lauren Sherman]

Wasn't Mark in New York at that time, though?

[Jesse Lee]

No, Mark was definitely in la, in Hollywood. Where's Mark? Can't see him. No. So like mid to late 2000s, I would say was like peak LA nightlife. So Monday through Sunday.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh, yeah. That was when all those, like, clubs that ended up being on reality television shows were big.

[Jesse Lee]

Hollywood back then was completely different. And you can get a mix of everything. So if you wanted to go to cool indie, indie rock, you know, hipster party on Tuesday at Cinespace or LAX on Sundays, like DJ am, Mark Ronson, all that stuff. But then you can still do the, you know, bottle service, hip hop clubs on the weekends. And yeah, some of the friends that I have even to this day used to be in that industry.

[Lauren Sherman]

So what did you do when you moved out here? Did you try to get a job in music?

[Jesse Lee]

I try to get a job at every record label. None of them answered my email, so I had to apply for an internship. Didn't get paid. Worked at retail. Actually, the first and only time I worked retail.

[Lauren Sherman]

But where'd you work?

[Jesse Lee]

I never share the story, but I'll actually share it with you. So. First two places I tried to get a job at on the Promenade declined, which I'll get back to in a second. One was Urban Outfitters, the other one was Puma.

[Lauren Sherman]

Urban was hard to get A job. I tried to get a job there in college and it was really difficult. And they had a. There was a crazy, like, screening to make sure you never did any drugs. So if you got that far, it was like, have you ever smoked weed? And I was like, what? What do you say?

[Jesse Lee]

That's how I didn't get the Puma job.

[Lauren Sherman]

I think it's true. They were. They were really conservative.

[Jesse Lee]

But French Connection hired me.

[Lauren Sherman]

Wow.

[Jesse Lee]

Remember fcuk?

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes.

[Jesse Lee]

So I was on the floor selling for a few months, but crazy enough, five years later when I started my own creative agency, both Puma and Urban Outfitters became clients. So store manager can kiss my.

[Lauren Sherman]

So five years in, you started your own creative agency. What did you went from being a shop boy at FCUK to owning a creative agency? What happened?

[Jesse Lee]

Yeah, yeah. So I went out every night. And part of the reason why I went out every night wasn't just like, drink and have fun. Although I did plenty of that. It was to meet people. So you said. Right. Was in la, maybe a lonely place or whatever. I didn't know a single person, so I'd go out every night to meet. It sounds really cliche, but quote unquote, to network. And within like two years, networking. Before it was called even networking, though. Well, the funny thing is, so I was just an intern and in the mailroom eventually, and then became someone's assistant, all pretty quickly. Within a year, I would pick up DJs and musicians from the airport, do favors for them, which again, some I shouldn't have to be doing. But I never said no. And I was all over town. And within a couple of years, a lot of my friends thought that I was from LA because they'd just seen me out and about. Jason Stewart mutual friend. He was working the door at Cinespace back then.

[Lauren Sherman]

I really don't. I barely know what Cinespace is, but it sounds very cool.

[Jesse Lee]

It's where like the indie rock hipster scene started.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay.

[Jesse Lee]

You know, like the Steve Aoki, Frankie Chan Mark, the Cobra Snake, that whole era.

[Lauren Sherman]

So you're interning at a music.

[Jesse Lee]

Oh, yeah. So I'll fast forward basically within a couple of years. I moved up relatively quickly. I guess at the time it felt like I was stuck, but again, I just kept showing up. There's a story like I'd call into the office and my boss would be. He would like pick up the phone and put it out and go, jesse's calling again. Does anyone need him to come in and do anything for you? So that was my Motto. And then so went from internship to mailroom, getting like 1050 an hour. Was an assistant for a couple of months. Learned how to work every day without getting paid much.

[Lauren Sherman]

And where was this?

[Jesse Lee]

This was a talent management company that managed, like, Crystal Method and Henry Rollins.

[Lauren Sherman]

So it doesn't exist?

[Jesse Lee]

I don't think so, but so just doing that. And then the first big break was I worked at this magazine called Urb Urb. It was an indie music mag. Raymond Roker. And the way I got that job, too, was I was stalking him on email. I would email him at like 2am asking for a job, because I grew up reading the magazine when I was in college. I was really. I was DJing when I was younger too. So he gave me a job that I wasn't qualified for. I was like 24, 25, and I was a marketing manager. First time with a business, first time with a business card. And it was like, the biggest accomplishment.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Jesse Lee]

So it didn't matter how little I was getting paid. So I was there for about a year and a half. And then I had always wanted to start my own company because in college I was djing and throwing club nights and parties. So I knew that at some point I wanted to do my own thing. And of course, my parents were like, don't do it. Why don't you, like, get a job and keep moving on up and learn more? And my logic was, if I don't do this in my 20s, and if I'm in my 30s or 40s and married with kids, it's gonna be harder to do it.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Jesse Lee]

So I just took a leap of faith. It also happened to be in the late 2000s, when there were that many great jobs available after the Great Recession or whatever. So, yeah, I relaunched my blog called Dub Frequency, started throwing parties at the Standard, doing events at south by Southwest, Coachella, Fashion Week, Art Basel Miami. And those sponsors became clients. So then that's how dfm and, you know, some of the people that also worked with me at DFM. So that was like, between 2009 and, like, 2018, 19.

[Lauren Sherman]

So what kind of work did you do for them? Like, what you. It was a creative agency, but that can mean a million different things. So what was your specialty?

[Jesse Lee]

So the first few years was a lot of events because brands would sponsor our events at south by Southwest or Coachella. So brands that you know well, like, we've done parties with Opening Ceremony, Teva with FK Twigs, Coachella before, you know, she became famous. And a lot of the brands then Started coming to us and saying, oh, why don't you do events for us? And then we were also making content on YouTube and, like, MySpace days and all that stuff. Right. Record labels. And so we were doing early version of influencer marketing before it was called that. So we would have talent, and some are still, you know, partners of ours on Basic Space, but we would help discover them, so to speak. So a lot of the DJs and musicians would play our parties for free, and then next year they're playing Coachella or on the fashion side, we helped launch V Files. Remember V Files?

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Jesse Lee]

Julian Kwei.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yep.

[Jesse Lee]

So we did Fashion Week parties with them and then opening Ceremony, obviously. Carol, actually, Carol Lims, an early investor of Basic Space.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh, cool.

[Jesse Lee]

So I used to shop at OC all the time. That's where I bought my first, like, Alexander Wang or Martin Rose. And then started working with bigger brands, whether it's like Nike, Calvin Klein, Gucci, kind of on the fashion side, and then like Spotify Square Cash app on the tech.

[Lauren Sherman]

So when you first. First launched the agency and you started working with fashion brands, what was your impression of the fashion industry? Because it changed dramatically in the 10 years that you were operating the agency.

[Jesse Lee]

So I think what was cool back then, by the way, my. My daughter asked that I give her a shout out for her. Her name's Izzy, and her friend Thea, they have a booth outside.

[Lauren Sherman]

Check her booth out. It's really cool. It's jewelry, right?

[Jesse Lee]

Yeah. Homemade for her brother. But, you know, the feeling of fashion 10 years ago. And I know we're gonna come back to the design thing in a second.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Jesse Lee]

But it just felt so, like, it's like subversive and cool, and there was a mix of luxury felt unattainable. You know, in your 20s, like having a Louis Vuitton wallet or Gucci wallet was a belt was an accomplishment.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Jesse Lee]

And then you would mix that with, you know, skate, streetwear, sneakers, all that stuff. And then, you know, going back to LA nightlife. The cool thing about LA, NY back then, too, was you can go to the most exclusive clubs, but if you look cool, like, they let you in. But if you look like a douchebag and you just have money, they wouldn't let you in. And it wasn't like that in Chicago. Like, you can't even wear hats to clubs in Chicago. They make you. If I dress like this and walk to a fancy club in Chicago, they wouldn't let me in. But in New York and la, you. If you dressed A certain way, or they think you're cool or you have style, they let you in. And fashion was a big part of that. So for me, it just felt very. Yeah, like new. And you can kind of combine the high low. And I think that proved, you know, paved the way for a lot of those people from that generation to become creative directors of luxury fashion houses and, you know, all that.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I'm Virgil.

[Jesse Lee]

Yeah, I mean, Virgil, we know him from. Yeah, he used to DJ our parties, and a lot of people like that, you know, Jerry Lorenzo also promoted club nights in la. When I first moved here, a lot of people, you know, came from that era.

[Lauren Sherman]

Why do you think that world is. Was a sort of. I don't want to say factory, but a resource for the fashion industry during that period because, like, music and fashion just interact no matter what, and music became the kind of core of influence during that period. And so all these people were, like, rapping about brands, and they became more like, what do you think?

[Jesse Lee]

The through line.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse Lee]

So if I take it back to even when I was in college, the person that kind of started all, in my opinion, was Pharrell Williams back then. So imagine 20, 25 years ago, right before Kanye, Pharrell was the first guy with, like, you know, Neptunes and nerd and wearing kind of the skate clothes and, you know, the high low mix. I even had chanel earrings, like, 20 years ago.

[Lauren Sherman]

Because of Pharrell?

[Jesse Lee]

Well, no, I. I think I had him before he ever wore Chanel.

[Lauren Sherman]

But I'm just saying Pharrell was influenced.

[Jesse Lee]

By Jesse, by the way. My wife and my daughter have those as record. I have these two double C Chanel earrings that I used to wear in my early 20s. But point being, though, Pharrell was kind of everyone's style. God.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Jesse Lee]

And then, you know, I know it's a controversial person, but Kanye came along and took it to a whole nother level. And, you know, whether you like him as a person or not, like, that was the major inflection point. Right. Music to fashion culture, and all those guys that you mentioned and people, you know, well, at one point or another worked with Kanye.

[Lauren Sherman]

Do you think there's something about. I always make this reference. I've probably written this, like, 15 times. But in the, like, 1990s, 2000s, and prior to that, too, the sort of queuing up culture was all about waiting for an album to drop. So it was, I think, Tuesday nights.

[Jesse Lee]

Yeah, Tuesday was the release date.

[Lauren Sherman]

Was the release date. So maybe people would go on Monday night and at midnight or 12:01am on Tuesday they would get there the album and then it turned in the last decade or in the 2010s into people waiting in line for Off White and Supreme and all of that. Do you think that those two things are interconnected?

[Jesse Lee]

Actually never thought about that. But the drop model does sound familiar to what the music drop models I think Supremes was Wednesday I want to say when they. Yeah, so yeah, perhaps. But actually if you think about it, early streetwear brands in the 2000 era, yeah had the drop model and as you know very well again like luxury fashion then started kind of following suit and then we'll I'm sure talk about how that's also now the other direction. Now it's kind of swinging back a different way. But yeah, that's probably there's there might be some relevance to that.

[Lauren Sherman]

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[Jesse Lee]

Do you know what went down at the Viper Room the night River Phoenix died? Or how about the mysterious death of Brittany Murphy? Are you aware of how Steve McQueen escaped murder at the hands of the Manson family? The obsessive killing of Dorothy Stratton, the real life murder that inspired David Lynch's Twin Peaks? The three conspiracies surrounding Marilyn Monroe's death. These stories and more are told in the Hollywoodland podcast where true crime and Tinseltown collide. Hollywoodland is hosted by me, Jake Brennan, creator of the award winning music and true crime podcast Disgraceland. Follow and listen to Hollywoodland wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, you mentioned earlier, this idea of owning a Louis Vuitton wallet was like an accomplishment. Something changed in around 2018, 2019. I'd say that maybe. I think it had to do with the rise of resale. It became more common to own that kind of stuff that, like, you would put a ton of your income towards getting that wallet or pair of sneakers or whatever, or buying them secondhand or make or buying a pair on the first drop and reselling them for more money and making income off of it. It just became, like, not as rarefied to own luxury goods by the end of the 2010s. Was that something when you launched Basic Space, which you should explain what it is, was that something you were thinking about?

[Jesse Lee]

Yeah, I mean, you know, my biggest source of inspiration, or references for that matter, are people close to me, whether it's my wife, friends, people I work with, and, you know, I started seeing, yeah, people buy like, quote, unquote, cool. People buy more vintage. Right. And. But part of it, I think, is to make it even more simple, just like any other trend, so to speak. I mean, nothing lasts forever, right? So I think with luxury fashion, it just got to a point where it's, you know, like you said, just everybody had it or too many people made it to, you know, I guess, like, for the lack of a better word, it's everywhere, you know.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Jesse Lee]

And then, like, what happens is just like in other, you know, trends, people, like, kind of get into the next thing. Right. So what's the next thing? So, yeah, like, it's, I think, all about discovery and sense of style, and people started just kind of looking into other places.

[Lauren Sherman]

So what is Basic Space? Why did you decide to launch it? And how did it get you to the point where you're, like, hosting this fair on a Saturday in Los Angeles?

[Jesse Lee]

So it just came out of actually, you know, what we just talked about. I knew a lot of creatives that weren't, quote, unquote, influencers in a traditional way of, like, YouTube video and Instagram, like influencer types. Yet those are the ones I felt like were really setting trends. And so why not be able to pick those people, their friends of ours, anyway, and have them sell directly to consumer. Now, we started with mostly vintage fashion in the beginning because that was the easiest way to get supply. And a lot of my friends and some of the people, you know, they weren't selling on other existing resale platforms because they felt like that it was too common for them to or didn't seem cool to them to do that. But with Us, they're selling next to their friends. A lot of them have their own brands. And then we started selling exclusive new products and some of them got into design and that's how the Virgil Vitra thing, you know, four years ago and then.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Jesse Lee]

So to me it's a curated marketplace. But also the term curated gets really thrown around a lot and for us it's just kind of like invite only to sell and it's our friends and friends of friends selling. And it's kind of expanded into now more design and art. I mean at one point we were even selling NFTs. We had the controversial. I don't know if you remember the baby Birkin bag. Nft.

[Lauren Sherman]

I vaguely remember this. I do remember meeting you via phone during COVID Yeah. And I think it was around the launch of the Virgil Vitra thing. So can you explain what that was? Because I think it ties into what.

[Jesse Lee]

We'Re doing here this weekend. So it was the first Covid like winter and to. To give credit where credit's due. Like both Virgil and Vitra, I think they were just looking for an alternative way to release a product outside of their usual channels. So our idea was pretty simple because we were only like 3 months old at the time. We did a pop up in Miami and our concept was IRL to URL shopping. So we live streamed the experience, had one of our mutual friends, Pedro, who's also part of this DJ and Virgil did the set design and we released it the next day like it's live. It was actually pre recorded and then the chair, the lamp and the brick. We sold out in a couple of days on basic space and it kind of gave us the blueprint for what we're doing now on a much larger scale.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's so crazy to think that Virgil was doing that on top of everything else he was doing and just everything he was going through obviously in his life. And when you think about him, he was a trained industrial designer. So what is happening now in the culture which you've become sort of the like poster child of this design is the new luxury idea. It's so much of it is connected to him and like the culture he built around his self.

[Jesse Lee]

I think even working together on that project, you saw how fast and frequent the emails and messages come across our teams. And I always remember because I would tell my own team, I'm like pay attention to even the lines and the spacing in the deck because I care about those things too. So it's best if you don't make Spelling errors, you're always kind. All the emails are very positive. It's never like. I'm sure we've all dealt with a lot of people where their emails are curt and not nice or not cordial. But him and his team are always very gracious and. And that's why we all collectively love working together. But yeah, Virgil was ahead of his time in terms of doing design. I mean, he had done collaborations with some of the highest, the coolest design galleries, one of them or a couple of them work with us at Design Miami, whether it's Gallery Creo, Carpenter's Workshop. Another mutual friend of ours, Francois Lafanur, has the prive gas station here outside. And so Virgil was doing design even back then. And I firmly believe that if he were still with us, he'd be doing a lot more design, hospitality and all that stuff.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. So when did you start to see this shift in the, in consumer behavior? Obviously, during the pandemic, people were spending a lot of money on their homes, but they were also buying a lot of luxury goods, like a ton for a lot of these brands. 2022 was their best year ever in the US in particular. So they were. People were still buying clothes even though they really didn't have anywhere to. To wear them. But when did you start to notice that there was a sort of a. The priority was moving away from having like another bag and instead buying like a chair or whatever.

[Jesse Lee]

I mean, you nailed it. 2022, because I think if you look at all the financial reports and, you know, stock prices and stuff, right, Those are market highs. And you just, I mean, it just became again, like too overexposed. So it's not even about money or I think accessibility, because that gets thrown around a lot too, even with collectible design. But people just want something new that's cool. So design became the next thing because there's some collectability element to it. It requires a bit more studying and having a certain, like, eye and taste and understanding historical context as well as like, what's new. And I think it gives people more, or let me say it differently, it makes it harder to kind of just like, have your style. Whereas, like, fashion became like uniform. You know, a lot of people started dressing the same, or you follow a certain influencer and used to go on Instagram, you can kind of copy and paste the look. But furniture, like, even if you wanted to buy a pre daybed somewhere on an auction site, there's a very good chance that it's not real. So you have to understand how to look for the authentic product, the provenance. So it kind of requires a lot more for the lack of better term again like kind of sense of style, intelligence, like ability to research. It takes a little more work 100%. So I actually also believe in that, you know, the best mode in business is actually doing the most difficult thing, the harder thing that people can't copy. So I think that's why you'll see more and more people that kind of are into fashion also transitioning over into design. It's a way to stand out. It requires more work then it's harder to replicate.

[Lauren Sherman]

Do you also feel like you, you work with a lot of the luxury brands, you observe them, you're a consumer, you are around people, consuming them. Do you. I felt like 2022, 2023, a lot of the biggest brands, which I would call Massage, they would hate that. But it is like you are selling so much at that point that you are mass. Whether or not everyone can access it is a different question. But like enough people can that it's near ubiquitous or near almost generic. It felt like to me that a lot of the bigger brands were minting money so they weren't innovating. So innovation often happens when you, you.

[Jesse Lee]

Have to have constraints.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, right.

[Jesse Lee]

It's like innovators dilemma. So when you're printing money and selling what works, it's hard to say screw that.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Jesse Lee]

And move on to the next thing. But yeah, that's part of the strategy.

[Lauren Sherman]

But do you. Did you feel that coming out of the big brands, like they need to like shake it up, do something different.

[Jesse Lee]

Some of them I. I've talked to about and others though to give credit where again where credit's due. Like in some of the luxury fashion houses started getting more into design a couple of years ago. Right. So one of my favorite brands that I'm sure you too, you know like Bottega, Bottega Veneta with Leo, the CEO is super smart. He's very much into design history and a lot of things outside of just fashion.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Jesse Lee]

And obviously with Matthew Blazey during his time there. They were innovating with the Catano Peche chair a couple of years ago to obviously the. We were at the last show together.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, yeah. We were seated next to each other technically the last.

[Jesse Lee]

Right. Matthew Blazey.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, that was the last show. Explain those chairs to people.

[Jesse Lee]

So the last Matthew Blasey Bottega Veneta show was that like October? Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

My God, it feels like so long ago, but it was October 2024.

[Jesse Lee]

They. They made this exclusive. The. They call it the Poofs, the arc chair with Zenoda Italian design company. And they were all like exotic animals.

[Lauren Sherman]

What was your animal? Because they, they said they chose the animal for the person.

[Jesse Lee]

I don't believe it.

[Lauren Sherman]

I don't believe it. I don't believe it either. Maybe some of them, but not every.

[Jesse Lee]

Mine was like a. Like a yellow chick, I think.

[Lauren Sherman]

I honestly, I can't remember. I think mine was the bunny.

[Jesse Lee]

Wait, the bunny's the. That's the one that everybody wanted. Jacob Elordi had that one.

[Lauren Sherman]

Really? I honestly can't remember. I'm sure that I took photos, but I remember being like, I would have preferred this one.

[Jesse Lee]

Do you remember what happened though? Like when you came to sit down and then someone was sitting in your seat and got rid of your name. You couldn't find your name.

[Lauren Sherman]

Someone tried to take my seat and it was. I mean it was a perfectly lovely seat, but it wasn't the best seat in the house. Let's just say that.

[Jesse Lee]

No, no. But no, I think you were more upset because you couldn't take a photo for Instagram without your name on it.

[Lauren Sherman]

That's true. Because I took like a photo. I never do that though.

[Jesse Lee]

No, I'm just saying. But like.

[Lauren Sherman]

But I would. No, I was just. I don't like when people take my seat at shows.

[Jesse Lee]

For sure. Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Because I would never do that. It's so. I would be so ashamed to do that. And I. I'm just like, don't do that to people. It's just a weird. I just. I find it very. When people do it, it makes me very uncomfortable.

[Jesse Lee]

Yeah. But we got to be at the last.

[Lauren Sherman]

It was fabulous. It was a. Such a great show and has inspired so fashion wise. Has inspired so much. I think Loewe, they have a big. Obviously have. Have really dug in and it works better I think with leather goods brands because they're not as. Like, it's not about the couture house and like Chanel, it'll be interesting with Matt too being there. Will he dig into design? Because that's really a couture house and it has so many different elements of fashion design to play with. Whereas like a Loewe or a Bottega, it's really about craftsmanship. So it naturally like lends itself. Or Hermes is the ultimate example of that. It naturally lends itself to the design world. So it's. Mattu is obviously really interested in art and design. Be interesting to see like what he brings to the table. Because buying Chanel furniture maybe doesn't feel as natural as buying a piece of Bottega furniture that has like leather accents. Anyway. I don't know.

[Jesse Lee]

I mean, I think they're two paths and, you know, not to get controversial, but I'll just.

[Lauren Sherman]

Please get controversial.

[Jesse Lee]

So I think there's really just.

[Lauren Sherman]

Just us.

[Jesse Lee]

Yeah, yeah, just Just us. Two. Two ways. Right. One, I think is it's not going to look the way we're talking about. So it's not that Chanel should make more furniture. Perhaps they have objects and pieces and accessories and home goods that's just. Is like a different product. And so I don't even know what that may be. Right. So I think there could be a collectible item or need for things like that. I mean, I buy things from different luxury brands of little objects that I never use. They just sit in a box. It's kind of collectible.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Jesse Lee]

So that's one way. Some of them are out in the guest house, but. But then they lose value if you open the box, you know, for collectibles.

[Lauren Sherman]

I know we have not opened our. Is it a norm? Is that how you proceed?

[Jesse Lee]

Norma and phone? Yeah. You know, when John comes and speaks with Marion later and you guys should come back for it too, is if you buy the phone and have it, him and David Kelly are going to sign it, which is going to make it work.

[Lauren Sherman]

We get them to sign ours.

[Jesse Lee]

You don't want to sign Dan, but.

[Lauren Sherman]

I don't know we're going to be able to wait. We have a 5:15 dinner at Moza.

[Jesse Lee]

But what. But the other path. The second way though, right. So one is that if it's a luxury fashion house, I think it needs to look different of what they make and sell. The other way is going to be. Go ahead.

[Lauren Sherman]

No, keep going.

[Jesse Lee]

Well, I think the other way is going to be the next wave of luxury brands or, you know, it's going to be something completely different.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, what is completely different? Like what do you think that's going to look like?

[Jesse Lee]

I mean, I'm just going to as the. The guys at all and will say talk my books or whatever. I mean, some of our best friends that are here, a friend of mine, Charlie Veza, like he has three design companies that are really cool. So it's Memphis Goo from Meritalia. He and his family acquired them over the last 10 years and they're, you know, very respected Italian design companies. I believe the holding company is called Italian Radical Design Group Memphis. As we'll talk about later. Right. Torisots. And yeah, big movement from the 80s, so. And that's that Maritalia had done a collab with Gaetano Peche before he passed away. So we were selling those here. And then Gufram is the brand that A$AP Rocky collaborated with for Design first two years ago and then now with us. And Rocky has a booth with his brand called Homemade. So what I'm saying is there is going to be a new type of luxury brands and companies that sort of take the mind share perhaps away from.

[Lauren Sherman]

So what does that mean for those big groups and those big brands? Like how do they, how do you believe they should remain in. Like how can they stay in the culture in a real way?

[Jesse Lee]

I mean I have an answer but give it.

[Lauren Sherman]

I'm sure they'll still hire you to tell them.

[Jesse Lee]

And yeah, we have a mix of investors and advisors that are kind of in that world too. But. And no, I'll just be completely honest. They're going to have to invest in what we do. I mean at the end of the day like basic space is another version of a department store. It's the new Barney's. It's what opening ceremony was for me. It's what Colette was for me. And a lot of those specialty retail stores that helped introduce designers products and trends don't exist anymore. And you know what we want to do with basic space and friends that we have here, 70 plus partners that showed up to sell with us. It's a mix of design, fashion and art. And I think the new way that people like, you know, our age, the old millennials down that want to shop, they don't want to go to the same traditional flagship stores or go online and just buy something like you want to experience in real life. You know, have a mix of vintage old with new exclusives. And again we may just consume different types of products altogether.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, it was interesting. I was having a conversation with a designer who knows a lot about retail and knows a lot of the players in retail. And we were talking about Barney's. Everybody really misses Barneys and this person was like they need to just figure it out and bring it back for real. Not with Saks Global like really do it. But the thing issue is it's nobody, everybody wants that but then it exists and they don't actually go and buy anything at these places. So the model needs to change because people don't really. They, they want a place where they can go but they'll probably only go once every six Months, maybe once a year. Like I go to Dover Street Market, which I think is incredible. And they have a pretty.

[Jesse Lee]

You love their Paris location.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's great. Well, here is the thing about Dover Street. Everyone who works there is really nice. And I think that's hard when you have such a sort of very elevated and specific set of brands that you're selling. They could be extremely cold and sort of like. And every, at every store, the one in LA too. Like everyone's kind who works there and I, I like that. I also just like going and seeing what they have. It, it feels different. But like I go once every six months. It's not like every week where Barney's was a thing you did every single week. So the challenge is these stores need to change the way they operate in terms of the mix of product, in terms of like how much revenue they actually think they're gonna get out of the physical store. So someone like you is operating from a place, place of an advantage because you're not like dealing with a bunch of 20 year leases at this point or whatever.

[Jesse Lee]

So Barney's actually is an ex, you know, important comp. So even in our internal discussion, Barney's was absolutely one of the inspos for this whole design space project. So I know you haven't had time to check things out, but if you go to all the corridors. We picked this location for a reason. I wanted to bring back what Barney's in Beverly Hills felt like for me 10 years ago. I go there on Saturday, Sunday, spend all afternoon, walk up and down the floors, you know, at the time, like only buy things that are like 60% off, you know, but really enjoy that experience. And I made sure. And some of the people here that are working on the eventual know, like we literally put white carpet just for two days. So, you know, instead of just like what's down there, I wanted to look and feel like this luxury store experience. And then you mentioned the staff. All the sales associates we have here that we train come from luxury retail and art gallery background just for the weekend. And then we worked with Nike to customize their whole look and fit, shoes included. And then everybody has an iPad and an iPhone. Everything's available online. But we have the convenience of being able to work with the sales associates too. So we want to sort of combine all the best elements from a Barney's, let's say, or you know, Dover street, and then add the convenience of the online checkout process. So if you see something you like and you don't want to Talk to the salesperson. You can just click Buy on your basic space app or mobile web.

[Lauren Sherman]

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[Jesse Lee]

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[Lauren Sherman]

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[Jesse Lee]

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[Lauren Sherman]

Find your personal [e-mail] that's usenourish.com if you don't know about flyer deals on Instacart, this message is for you. Flyer deals are like strolling through your favorite store looking for deals, but you're scrolling your phone and maybe you're in bed because getting delivery doesn't mean you have to miss deals like you get at the store, like the one creamer that doesn't make your stomach hurt, or the pasta sauce you can't not buy when it's on sale. So download the Instacart app, shop flyers and never miss a deal on one of your favorites. Plus, get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes. Okay, I know we want everybody to get out there and go shopping. Before we go, I do want to talk some designer musical tricks with you because I know you have an opinion. So there's been a lot of changes in the fashion industry that I would say are partially like the catalyst was what we were talking about before, where everything sort of got generic and then the brands got a little, maybe I can say this, a little lazy. And then people stopped spending as much and so now they have to shake things up. And there have just been. This happens every 15 years. I don't think it's out of the ordinary, but now the Internet has made it so like we're tracking it very closely. But there have been tons of changes at the houses and they're basically all in place now. So Matthieu Blasey is going to Chanel, Jonathan Anderson is going to Dior. Jack McCullough and Lazarel Hernandez, who were at Pronza School, who founded Pronza Schooler, are going to La Loewe. Louise Trotter is going to Bottega. Veneta Demna, who's been at Balenciaga forever, is going to be at Gucci, and Balenciaga is sort of the one that is remaining. And also John Galliano left Margiela. Glenn Martin's replaced him. But so no one really Knows what's happening with Galliano. I think he's just going to start his own brand. Like relaunch his own brand with lvmh. But anyway, what do you think of all this? Who are you most excited about? Especially curious to know what you think about the Demna of it all.

[Jesse Lee]

So, as you know, Demna was a recommendation that I had made, you know.

[Lauren Sherman]

Prior you told them this five years ago that they should be three and.

[Jesse Lee]

A half years ago. Ish.

[Lauren Sherman]

So did you. You've. Was this before Alessandro Michele left?

[Jesse Lee]

Correct.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay. And you were like, you. You should put. And did you get the. The idea that Demna should go to Gucci from the collaboration that.

[Jesse Lee]

No, no, no, not at all.

[Lauren Sherman]

So what makes you think. What made you have the vision that Demna should. Maybe. Maybe you're a psychic.

[Jesse Lee]

No, I mean. So Demna again, I, you know, I was a big buyer. Well, not a big buyer, but. Because I couldn't afford it. But I, I love the early, like ventma stuff and Balenciaga and I still buy Balenciaga and I have a lot of random objects from Balenciaga, like towels and stuff too.

[Lauren Sherman]

Did. Did you buy your wife the. The cup. The Starbucks Balenciaga Starbucks cup bag? Cause Lauren Sanchez was just seen this morning carrying it.

[Jesse Lee]

No, but I do have other cups from Balenciaga, but not. Not those. But no, like with Demna, I mean, I think he's arguably the most creative person and I say that in a. And I see you nodding because it's not just designing clothes, it's understanding context and culture and how he was doing this from Switzerland, always back. Did he used to live in like Geneva was based in part time.

[Lauren Sherman]

Still does.

[Jesse Lee]

Yeah. And that always fascinated me because he seemed to really grasp culture, American culture, what's in the zeitgeist and I think. But then also clothing where I mean, you know, he. He would start literal trends, then like other people copied. Right. So I just felt like if you need a real change agent at scale, you need to really like swing for the fences. Some of the hires, not necessarily the ones you mentioned, maybe they're like safe choices. But I think Demna going to Gucci, like that's a big swing and I think that's the right move. Even if it's, you know, now instead of three and a half years ago.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I don't know if there are any.

[Jesse Lee]

And I know it's not popular from what people might say, but I don't.

[Lauren Sherman]

Know, I think people are just don't understand it. Which we can unpack quickly what it means. But I would say there is no safe choice now. The only safe choice is Eddie Slimane. But the issue with that is like, that's not even that safe at this point. Like, yes. I think a lot of people in the industry, if you want to talk about Gucci, felt like Alessandra Michele is incredibly talented. It was over. Like his moment there was over. It was so fashion and such a big trend that it had to, it had to end. Like he had to leave. If he had stayed 10 more years, it wouldn't have been good for him. It wouldn't have been good for. Good for Gucci. And so it made sense that he left. I think my feeling about what Gucci should have been next was really Italian preppy and they should have hired someone who was like really into preppy culture.

[Jesse Lee]

And classic tradition would have been your choice then. That's not Eddie either.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, the person that I've said is Simone Bilate who worked at Belotti. Belotti, who worked at Gucci for 16 years and then went to Bally. But he was not. He is. You could also argue that brand's too big for him. He's like a. The way he thinks, but it's someone, an unknown, who like really understood that part of Italian culture. I think would have been a good follow up to Alessandro because you can just do really classic stuff, but then dig into this. And there was some. When Sabato's Desarno got there, his early campaigns, they sort of were of that world where it was like athletic socks and Gucci, tennis culture, all that stuff. They could have gone that way if they found the right person. The problem, I, I think Eddie is that Eddie's extremely preppy. Like a lot of what, yes, it's rock and roll, but a lot of what he did at Celine was like bourgeois French preppy clothes. So I think they should have dug into the bourgeois. And I think with Sabado Dasarno, that's what they wanted. And he just wasn't the right person and also didn't have the right infrastructure around him. All that said, I, I think that I'm a huge believer in demna. I think he's an amazing product designer. He's amazing couture designer. He's. He has a vision, he understands like, he's a quote unquote real designer who also understands product. And I do want to believe that he can do this because I love his like basic B Balenciaga collections. This last one was like real clothes. I thought it was fabulous. There was stuff that I wore all the suits. All the suits. But also he did, like, a denim jacket with a popped collar and a tulip skirt. Like, it was what he called them, quote, unquote, normal clothes. And I think that if he can kind of go into Gucci, archives are incredible. We've seen it and kind of take it, the one challenge I have with it. And the funny thing was, the day of his show, that's when people started talking about him maybe going there. And I remember being backstage thinking, like, there's just no way. Because the thing to me, that is the complication is Gucci is a very warm brand. It's just. It's a warm brand. It feels. Feels like there's, like a golden sheen over it. No matter who designs it, no matter what their aesthetic is. Tom Fordham, Alessandra Michele, nothing is the same, but there's a warmth to it. And Demna as a person is a warm person, but I don't get warmth from his designs. And so this is a big. This is his big challenge in life. Yeah, of course, he's making a ton of money, and it's a great opportunity. It's exciting. But this is going to be a big. Like, this is going to define how. How deep in fashion history he goes. Like, even if it's a total catastrophe, it's going to be impactful. And I'm just curious to see how he looks at Gucci and. Because he really needs to, like, it needs to not be about him, and most of his designs are really about him, so it's gonna. It'll be really interesting.

[Jesse Lee]

Yeah. I think the only thing I'll add to that is because he's accomplished so much at a relatively right young age and early part of the career, perhaps he can kind of wear a different hat. Right. And really pivot. I mean, that would be insane if he could do the. Like you said, bring the warmth back somehow, which none of us would expect. But then maybe he can.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Yeah. Out of all of them, he's the one I want to succeed the most.

[Jesse Lee]

But it just reminded me, though, like, even Karl Lagerfeld, like, if you see his personal taste, you know that he was huge collective design, chrome hearts. Like, personally, he's into very eclectic things, but then between Chanel and why am I Blanking?

[Lauren Sherman]

Fendi and Chloe. But the thing was, his own line was not successful, but his personal. His personal aesthetic was not something that was like. But whereas Demna's. Demna could launch his own brand and be hugely successful. It's just a question of can he? Karl Lagerfeld was a stylist. He wasn't a designer or a stylist or whatever. He wasn't. He was a creative director. He wasn't a designer designer. Saint Laurent is a designer designer. Demna is a mix of both, but I think more of a designer than a creative director. And so the question is, the reason he is sort of the goat in this era is because he is a mix of both. Most of them are one or another. Jonathan Anderson's more of a creative director. Mattieu, I would say, is more of a designer. But because Demna has both and he's good at both, this is going to be the biggest test. Like, if he can make a Gucci that we all want to buy, which is what it has to be in the end. Yes. The Runway. Cool. Interesting, thought provoking. Great. But it has to be something we all want to buy, then he'll go down in history.

[Jesse Lee]

I'm betting on that jockey.

[Lauren Sherman]

Jesse, this is really fun. Thanks for having me.

[Jesse Lee]

Yeah, thanks for having me. And hope you go shopping outside. Make sure you have a really lovely sales associate.

[Lauren Sherman]

Thank you. Thanks, everybody, for being here.

[Jesse Lee]

Thank you.

[Lauren Sherman]

Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman, and Bob Tabador.