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- [00:00]
Lauren Sherman
You know, those little habits that quietly upgrade your whole day. For me, it starts the moment I wake up with a giant glass of water. The breakfast of champions. Before coffee, before making my kids lunch, I grab a bottle of Fiji Water to get hydrated. Because hydration is my number one priority in life. Seriously, Fiji Water isn't just refreshing. It's Earth's flower finest water. It comes from the islands of Fiji, filtered through ancient volcanic rock and naturally preserved from external elements. It's bottled at the source and untouched by man until you unscrew the cap. Here's what makes it different. Fiji Water has a perfectly balanced 7.7 ph and has more than double the electrolytes as the other two top premium bottled water brands, giving its signature soft, smooth taste. Unlike the other two top premium bottled water brands, Fiji Water's electrolytes are 100% naturally occurring. Fiji Water is also leading the way in sustainability. Since 2022, their 330 and 500 milliliter bottles have been made using 100% recycled plastic. Fiji Water is the number one premium importer bottled water brand in the US and it's easy to see why Fiji Water is Earth's finest water.
- [01:23]
Carvana Representative
Thanks for selling your car to Carvana. Here's your check.
- [01:26]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Whoa. When did I get here?
- [01:27]
Carvana Representative
What do you mean?
- [01:28]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
I swear it was just moments ago that I accepted a great offer from Carvana online. I must have time traveled to the future.
- [01:34]
Carvana Representative
It was just moments ago. We do same day pickup. Here's your check for that great offer.
- [01:38]
Lauren Sherman
It is the future.
- [01:40]
Carvana Representative
It's it's the present and just the convenience of Carvana. Sorry to blow your mind.
- [01:45]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
It's all good. Happens all the time. Sell your car the convenient way to Carvana. Pickup times may vary and fees may apply.
- [01:58]
Lauren Sherman
Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show is Isabel Wilkinson Shore, founder of Atersy. We discuss building a DTC brand in the post DTC era. What women want to wear in 2025 and ple more. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world, and much more. If you're interested listeners of Fashion people get a discount. Just go to Puck News FashionPeople to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday, everyone. Hope you had a great week. I'm back from Chicago in beautiful Los Angeles. The weather here is very fine. I never want to leave until September. Let's. Let's do it. Let's not leave the state of California until September. That is my goal this weekend. Line Sheet, we've got it all. Updates on The Devil Wears Prada 2, on the search for the next editor of American Vogue or head of editorial content or whatever the title is. I always forget. I also look at how the business of celebrity fashion campaigns is changing. So in the last couple years, celebs are commanding way more money than they did just a few years ago to front a campaign. I have details. I have numbers. It's a really interesting look at how the business of fashion, the business of Hollywood work and how they work together. Rachel Strugatz has details on Ami Kohl's closure and why Sephora, where that brand was distributed, isn't always a magic business. Bullet for beauty and today, in today's issue, Sarah Shapiro has a really interesting look at the top brands trending on Shop My, the affiliate marketing platform. This data is exclusive to Line Sheet and Puck, so be sure to check it out. And let's get going with Isabel. I have known her for a long time, have a huge amount of respect for her and what she's building, and I hope you will enjoy this. Isabel Wilkinson, welcome to Fashion People.
- [04:44]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Thanks so much for having me.
- [04:46]
Lauren Sherman
I'm so happy to have you. We go way back, and so I'm excited to chat about your journey. First off, what'd you have for breakfast this morning?
- [04:54]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Oh, my God. I had scrambled eggs and wasa crackers, which I kind of have every day now, or some sort of yogurt. But yeah, that was today.
- [05:04]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, that sounds really good. I'm. I'm about to eat some goop kitchen and I'm very hungry, so that. That's a perfect breakfast. So you. And the reason we go so, so far back is you were an editor for a long time and in some ways you still are an editor. But tell me a little bit about your history in fashion. It started in. In media.
- [05:30]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Yeah. I started at the Daily Beast, where I think you and I first interacted. I was the third intern at the Daily Beast out of grad school, and I moved to LA to help Gabby Doppelt open the west coast bureau for Tina back in the day, which was really fun. And it was a very small, very scrappy team. And they just started kicking me assignments and I started covering kind of everything. I started as a breaking news reporter, as an intern covering international and business. And then when got to la, started specializing in entertainment stories, and then from there really specializing in art and fashion coverage, and then moved back to New York after three years of living there. They said I was going to be moving for three months, and I ended up spending three years there. And once I got back to New York, you know, we launched something called Fashion Beast at the time, which was, you know, the Daily Beast fashion coverage. And then they, you know, everything happened with Newsweek, and I was leading arts and fashion coverage for the magazine for a while. And, yeah, from there on. And it was really an incredible experience to learn so directly from Tina, who remains.
- [06:59]
Lauren Sherman
Tina Brown.
- [07:00]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Tina Brown, sorry. Who remains a real, you know, mentor and, you know, just kind of general leader for me. And soon after that, I went to go work for Stella Bugbee at the Cut. And those were two, a little over two years that were so much fun. It was a totally different, I would say, journalistic ecosystem there. There was a lot of volume, and there it was a really, really funny, really smart team and group of women that I continue to follow and admire and, you know, stay in touch with. And Stella was a wonderful, really. And remains a friend and mentor for me as well, and wonderful boss. She had such a great news sense. And I feel like, you know, and I was. I'm lucky enough to have worked with really, four really strong women my entire career. I feel, you know, so much of what many of them instilled was just a really fun workplace and having a great group of people where you can really laugh with your co workers. And I felt that in so many of those early jobs, and I almost feel a duty to bring that spirit to my workplace now.
- [08:25]
Lauren Sherman
So, Gabby, many people know because of San Vicente Bungalows and also or they know her from when she was at W and all these other magazines and working on movie sets as the sort of fashion liaison. And she's a really amazing, incredible person. What. And I only recently found out, connected the dots that you worked for her. What was it like being in LA at that time and working at a place like the Daily Beast, which was sort of the future of journalism in that moment?
- [08:57]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Yeah, it was. For me, it was. There was something so new guard about it at the time, and I felt like I was learning how to fly and learning how to be a journalist and learning how to report, and yet also learning an entirely new tool set. And so everyone, I was very lucky in that many of these extremely established editors like Gabby, were also open to new voices for the first time. And they also, you know, I think that Tina really set a tone of the Beast in a way that all of us emulated. It was feisty and, you know, had a bit of bite, I think she would say, and that it was kind of an. It was very voicey. And, you know, I think Tina, I now am an avid reader of Fresh Hell, her sub stack, and she still definitely has that trademark voice.
- [09:56]
Lauren Sherman
And from New York Mag you went to T. And so you had pretty amazing experiences. And I think I actually wrote for you at every one of them because your time at those places overlapped with me freelancing. And I see that the Daily Beast was really fun. It was just, it felt like there was a thing of sort of, I have this idea and run with it. And that I could sense that from you. What made you. So you're on, you're ostensibly on this podcast because you own this brand, Otter C, that I wear and talk about and we write about a lot and everyone in the fashion industry talks and writes about a lot. But how did you go from being an editor at places that, you know, were viable and most, you know, still, all three still are actually, to wanting to start your own brand and why? What happened to make that happen?
- [11:01]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Yeah, I had almost a six year run at T magazine after I left the Cut, working for Deborah Needleman and then for Hanya. And over the course of that time, I. And again, I felt very inspired by the work I was doing. I loved the reporting and the editing and I also felt this increasing need to be closer to product. And as I, as I, you know, in a very personal way, sitting at a desk all day and, and then, you know, as so many editors do, wearing multiple hats outside of the office as well. While I was at T especially, I found that there were many things missing from my wardrobe that I needed. And I never thought that this would be turn into a fashion business. I just was listening really closely to the things that I want to, wanted to wear and the things that I was missing from my own life. And it started this curiosity about product. And I had always had a really deep passion for product. As early as I can remember, I never saw myself as a big shopper. I was more. I call, I call myself almost like a heavy wearer. The things that I liked the most I would just have in such heavy rotation and be sucked so loyal to certain things in my closet. And when I got to as corporate an environment as the Times, I would call it a creative corporate environment. And constantly having to dress for events after work and important meetings and feeling like I almost had a split personality in that I was trying, trying in over the course of a single day to be four different people, I realized how much I was lacking in what I thought of as high quality wardrobe staples. And back as early as 2015, right after I got to the Times, which the Times building happens to be kind of adjacent to the Garment district in New York, I would sneak out on a couple lunch breaks to a sample room that I had found and was just trying to make a couple good shirt silhouettes that I felt were missing from my closet. And that's where the germ of the idea started.
- [13:23]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. So basics are not. Are easy to find. So a white shirt, a polo shirt, a slip dress, what have you. But I would say you mentioned high quality. And to me, the thing that sets addersy apart is the quality of the fabric and the attention to detail with the design. Did you know that there was. Because where you sit price wise is it's not cheap, obviously, but it's also not as expensive as a lot of most designer brands. So it feels for a customer who's used to shopping designer, it feels like a really good value because you can leave your showroom or leave the website under a thousand dollars and have something substantial that you've bought or a couple of things. How did you think about the one, once you started making these shirts and you realized, okay, I think I'm actually going to do something. How did you start thinking about the pricing and when you were sort of creating the brand, what was the brand architecture that you built initially and how has it evolved?
- [14:45]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Yeah, I, at the beginning when, you know, I was still. This was still just a germ of an idea. I had certain things in my closet that were a designer price point. Right. And I felt like they always lived in plastic or in a garment bag. And I didn't really feel like I could live in those clothes. And then the clothes that I was living in every day were really low quality or frankly they weren't that comfortable or they were not easy to style. And I felt like there was just this white space forming without even really being able to describe it for clothes that were. And pieces that were. Had so much quality that they, you know, didn't really sit inside a trend or that I knew that I could have them for a long time. I knew I could style them really easily with other things and they didn't provide friction. That was this big thing that I always felt every morning getting dressed. I had a heap of clothes that I would cycle through and as like, you know, possibilities to wear for the day. And it was this constant calculation between the weather outside, the meetings I had that day where I had to be later that night. And it was just a kind of option pile of discards. And I felt when I was in, you know, forming addersy and the idea really started to. To form, it was, how can we provide this quality? And also this sense of ease. And ease to me meant ease of wear. So, like really comfortable fabrics that are so high quality that you're going to feel really comfortable in them throughout your day. Ease of how to style them. I know that they're going to fit in with what I already have. I know how to. How to look good in this ease of fit. Right. I know this looks good on me. I can sit in these pants for the whole day. All of those things started to fill in this concept of ease.
- [16:41]
Lauren Sherman
The other thing, it's. It's very polished. But the thing you're talking about ease and the thing you said about. People talk about day to night a lot. But I think in New York, it's a particular issue because there's also the environmental factor. So even if you have the perfect outfit in the morning, you're outside and you're on a train and you're in this. You mentioned it's raining today. You kind of can't escape the environment. So I find when I come back and I remember I would just be carrying these, like, huge bags everywhere because I would need an outfit. And I couldn't go back to Brooklyn to change. And then I joined the wings so that I had a place to shower and change after work and all of that stuff. And there is a certain polish to everything you do. And it does make people feel, I think the dresses and the pants in particular. But also you did a knit cardigan that has covered buttons that you've done in many iterations that I own that Liz Goffett at Puck owns a lot. A lot of my friends. I've worn it to a lot of events. But also you can wear it with jeans during the day. Is there something about the polish too? Because you're a very polished person, but you never look fussy or anything that you think is missing in A lot of the market and just the way people dress today because I find that, that I always want to look polished even if I'm wearing like track shorts and a shirt. But it's hard to do that with what's on offer for the most part.
- [18:26]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Yeah. I think so many of our clients. First of all, hi Liz Goff, thank you for owning this sculpted cardigan.
- [18:31]
Lauren Sherman
She, she owns much outer sea, so so does Alex Bigler. Alex, big Larry, your number one fan.
- [18:37]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
That's right back at you. I, you know, I think the, the Polish question is what it's been such a delight to see women, especially at our, our in person events and in the studio buy full outfits from us and we can talk about that. I know we' events but I love and this is something of really of how we design as well we always design as kind of full outfits. Like if someone were to buy this full look and they often do, what are the components of that? Because I've, we've seen we, we rarely do full occasion wear with a capital O. We have seen that occasion in New York at least is very often going out to dinner or something like that. And it's kind of as you say, these polish separates. But what I find really delightful is when someone takes something from that quote unquote outfit like the sculpted cardigan and then pairs it with track shorts or jeans. And you just see how we've kind of given you a base for your own personal style. And that to me is where it gets really exciting when you know to see, to see women just interpret things entirely in their own way.
- [19:46]
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- [20:22]
Lauren Sherman
When you started, you started totally and you're. Are you still totally direct to consumer or do you have a couple wholesale or is it all.
- [20:30]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
We now have a few wholesale partners.
- [20:33]
Lauren Sherman
Okay, so let's. In the beginning you started dtc, which you started a DTC business. A. The price point is higher than a lot of the Traditional as we think of DTC businesses. But B, you started that at a time when DTC was sort of going out of fashion almost that people were relying more on other retailers and kind of going back to the old model. Why was it important to you to ground the business in direct to consumer?
- [21:03]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Well, I founded outer Sea in 2021. So we were right on the tail end of COVID at that time, and the world was opening back up again to really, from a mindset perspective, to travel. People were coming out of their homes, they were coming out of quarantine, but I think they were still really used to shopping online. However, I think a lot there were, as you said, there were, you know, certain quality expectations of what they would get online. You know, often with a, when you make an online purchase, if you haven't seen the brand in person, you kind of don't know what the quality is going to be. And very soon after we launched, we. It was really by our second collection, people started saying, where can I try this on in person? How can I see the fabric? Do you guys have a warehouse in New York? I can pop up to your office, which we didn't have yet. Or. And so. And basically right around that time, I was signing a lease on an office on 64th street and Madison up in the top floor of a building. And we were getting these requests almost daily to try things on. And we were then doing rush orders from our warehouse to get the products in and scheduling people by appointment to come into this little office that we had rented, which was a former fitness studio. And there were reps written on whiteboards on the walls of the. And so we got these pieces in for people from our warehouse. And then more and more of them started to come almost every day. And we realized very early on that we had to close it and reopen it as a real retail space.
- [22:47]
Lauren Sherman
And what kind of data did you get from those early days of interacting with customers in person?
- [22:58]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
We got all the data, as we continue to do. When you're standing with someone in your product in front of the mirror will tell you everything. And that has been the. The unlock for me in these first four years of the business. As you know, I do not have a traditional fashion background at all. And so I have seen these four years of just learning and building. And now, you know, from there it was going to city every city, myself, and meeting with women and hearing their feedback. And not only would they tell you extremely direct feedback about the product, they also would tell you about their la, their lives Their lifestyle. Are they working? Are they not working? Are they doing school pickups? Are they running sitting on a panel? Are they running a huge board meeting? They would tell you what their needs were very easily and quickly. And they would also tell you what they felt was missing in their lives. And they would tell you about certain colors that they were averse to fabrics and how they fit the rise of a crotch of, you know, in her pants. And the feedback was, was fast and furious and it really helped form the basis of the brand.
- [24:09]
Lauren Sherman
What were some things that bothered people or interested people that you were surprised about in those early days?
- [24:18]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
You know, so, so basically the we, we opened this studio and we got, you know, like I said, we then immediately closed it for renovation and only opened, reopened it as a real store in 2023. And during that period we were doing these trunk shows across the country and really taking the full collection and taking product with us to a range of cities. Los Angeles, Marin, Chicago, Greenwich, Connecticut, just to name a few, Palm Beach. And the thing that was so striking is how different the lifestyles were in every city. And you know, and the it. You would expect Chicagoans to only want outerwear, but it turns out so many of them were going to Florida and they all wanted lightweight or, you know, and so you kind of couldn't guess until you, you went. And. And then so many of the women we met on the road who have become long term clients and really close friends, really stay in touch with the brand and we now know them really well by name. We know what they like and don't like. We send them pictures of new stuff when they're still in development. You know, often I take copious notes on every event and at every event and bring it back to the design team now. And we talk about these women by name in the design room. And then very often I will snap pictures and send them notes or, you know, tell, tell these women what's coming. And, and so it's very personal and, and it's been, it's been wonderful because many of those women have stayed close to, you know, stayed close to the brand and they come see us in New York and they shop us online and it's been very organic from there.
- [26:12]
Lauren Sherman
Is the conversion rate of the in store or not the conversion rate, but is the basket for in store much higher than online?
- [26:22]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
It is, yeah.
- [26:25]
Lauren Sherman
And I know from my personal experience that I can't leave you without buying like four things if I go in person and try stuff on.
- [26:33]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Yeah, the. We have learned very quickly that in person really works for us both in the studio and at all of these events around the country. And can you hear me? My headphones. I, you know, we, like I said, so much of it is understanding fit and fabric, but it's also really understanding the outfit. What I call infinite outfitting options in person. And it's hard. It can be hard to do when you're, you know, obviously online, you can suggest, wear it with and pair it with this. But it's only when you're standing in front of a mirror working very slowly or not very slowly, but really taking time with a sales associate to understand, okay, if I buy this jacket, it looks good with these four pants. And then this pant also works with that knit. And you start to see that there. There are these building blocks that all go with each other.
- [27:29]
Lauren Sherman
So let's talk about the trunk shows, because it reminds me of. I think they became more popular again. They've always been popular with designer brands. Will. Michael Kors famously will do a trunk show at a department store. And it's a kind of meet and greet and he fits things and. And it's this way to get the customer engaged with the brand on a deeper level and higher volume. Then they end up buying more, all that stuff. But then I think in Covid, and also I moved to LA during COVID so I get invited to a lot of trunk shows with designers who are based in New York, where I don't think in New York you do them for everyone because you have the studio and it's a part of your business. But it just feels like it became a bigger thing in the past five years because there wasn't as much in store interaction. But it's also, I think back to. I was actually talking about your brand with someone the other day and I said, you know, it's. And I don't. You might hate this comparison, but do you know about Carlyle Collection?
- [28:38]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
I don't.
- [28:40]
Lauren Sherman
So it's like you don't want to know about it, but it's. There's a great Christina Binkley article, actually. You should read this. That. And it was essentially. And I'm sure it still exists, but it is a private clothing company. They probably still do it where they would go from place to place and sell suiting and of and separates directly to the customer. There was no website. You couldn't even buy it online for a long time. And it was really, really popular with like female politicians and politicians, wives. And it was this big secret. I think Christina wrote it for The Wall Street Journal. And I always thought it was such a smart business idea because you are connecting with these people one to one and they will spend a good amount of money. But how much of it? And, and yours is like the modern version of that? There's no silliness in that. It's not. It's available online if you want it, it's accessible. But there is still that like real one to one thing, even as you scale. And how much has the trunk show element of it. Every time you come out here, I try to stop by and I know you'll go up to San Francisco and stop at Hero Shop with Emily Holt and you're going to all these cities, meeting all these people. And we know our friend Danielle Sherman does a similar thing with Sherman failed her jewelry line. How important has that trunk show element been to the development of the brand?
- [30:18]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
It's been really fundamental in the first four years as we built the brand, like I said, it really has been invaluable to have a direct line to the customer and have the opportunity to listen and learn from them. And the lessons are so different in every city and in every market. And it starts to get really interesting when you look at the data overall of, okay, this many percentage of women bought these pants with this jacket or, you know, there, there will always be things you. That surprise you and it becomes a totally different business than your online business very easily. And you know, the, the wonderful and beautiful thing that that's now happening is that we're going to new markets and more people have heard of us. And. But so many of these women come through New York at one time or another throughout their year. And so they do come and see us in the studio and we really can show them the full collection and spend more time with them. And then the greatest thing is going back and having kind of repeat a regular presence in different cities and have them kind of know that we're coming every season. And it feels like an event to count on. And so it's been really wonderful. It personally is just so fun for me. I love meeting people. I love talking to people. I very often am, you know, I just want to like sit and chat. And so it's just, it's an extremely wonderful part of this.
- [31:59]
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- [32:57]
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- [33:14]
Lauren Sherman
What have you learned about pricing? Because pricing is such a big topic in fashion right now. Heard from so many people about, you know, I'm talking to one of the groups later today about what their pricing situation and how they should manage it and your pricing is is just feels very intentional. What have you learned? Like where are people willing to just go all out? Where do you have to be really careful? Do they comment on the pricing? Are you dealing with a kind of customer that it's not really an issue? Like what have you learned about that in during this time because pricing has become such a bigger, it's become more top of mind in the media since you've been doing this right?
- [34:02]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
I think what we see and again of course you never really know what people's feedback is on the pricing when they shop online because you're not standing there with them and you do get more immediate feedback in person very often. You know, we see that our customers feel that if they can really wear our pieces on repeat and have get a lot of wear out of them, it's kind of, what do you call it, fashion math or whatever, it's easier to justify these investments. And you know I do recognize that our product does represent an investment for people and and yet I think many of them realize that the or understand that the quality is is really there and these pieces will last them for a very long time and that the they will be worn again and again. And I think one you know, in that way a lot of Customers, it's say that it's easier to justify some of these, you know, you know, making the decision to buy something if they feel like they're going to get a ton of use out of it.
- [35:04]
Lauren Sherman
What are the hero products for Outer Sea? It feels like to me there's probably. You probably have a pretty broad range of stuff that sells a lot. But what have been the vest, obviously? What have been some of the biggest hits or surprising hits for you?
- [35:20]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
So the sculpted vest was an early. An early hero, I would say. That came out in our third collection. And it is a linen blend, structured, sculpted vest that really accentuates the waist. And it's been interesting because as we have iterated on the vest, we think about rather than how do we directly carry this product forward, right. How do we do this again and again, we're less interested in that than how do we give people the spirit of what the vest represented for them in new ways? And so that gave birth to the sculpted cardigan, which you mentioned in cashmere and then in a slinky, more slinky viscose hand that kind of does the same thing for the body. It is a longer sleeve style, but it accentuates in the same way. So I start to get very excited about innovation. When we think about with product innovation of what did this do for the woman, it not only accentuates the body, but it's something she can wear to. To a dinner, and she can wear it during the day, and it checks all these boxes for her, and it feels really good on the skin and she feels kind of sexy in it. And once you start thinking about what a product does for someone in that regard, it. It is easy to push the ball forward. Another bestseller for us has been the cashmere silk T shirts. Those have actually been the number one seller this this year, which are part of our core collection. We launched a core collection a year ago which has several pieces in it, both knits and cut and sew that we believe a woman should have in her closet year round. And so they include the tailored trousers, the cashmere silk T shirts, our whisper cardigans, and also our cocktail pants, which are very popular, which an elastic waist pant with a slightly cropped leg. And so those are the, you know, some of our core pieces which are. Are very popular. And I think for the same reasons it they, you know, there are just a myriad of ways to wear them and people, they're. They are really comfortable and you'll get a lot of use out of them.
- [37:33]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, it Is interesting because there aren't. It feels. And this is where your editorial eye comes in. It feels very contained, even though there are a lot of options. So you understand how it all works together, and it makes you feel like, oh, I. It's not intimidating to want to buy into it because you can kind of get the look through a few pieces and it. You communicate very clearly how it all works together. How did you manage to create a brand that felt like it had a clear idea from the beginning? Like, what was. You're. You're not a designer by trade, but you become one? Like, how did you know how to find it? Was it. Was it being and writing about fashion and being a fashion editor and working in the industry that, like, you just met these people through your team, through, like, other people you knew? Like, how did you assemble a team to be able to create such a clearly defined brand so quickly? Because that. That usually a brand, a brand can look totally different five years later. Whereas I remember things from your first collection that are still present in what you're doing now, and that's pretty remarkable.
- [38:54]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Well, I'm really happy to hear you say that because. And you. You asked this question before of how have things changed? You know, honestly, so much of this has been a build every season. And learning from what we did last season, it wasn't that, you know, I started off with knowing exactly what things were going to look like five years down the road. It was like, this is the product that feels urgent that I want to wear right now, and then after that gets released in the world, what's the next urgent thing? And I've been. I was extremely lucky to find a couple of key partners early on. You know, the timing of. Of COVID was that so many people in the fashion industry were changing jobs or freelancing and, you know, wholesale was, you know, wholesale reliant businesses were. I think. I think people had a lot of, you know, there were a lot of people that had kind of career changes in Covid, and I was really lucky to meet several team members. And honestly, so much of kind of meet the meeting, our meeting of our very talented team. We, first of all, are a tiny team, and so many of our team members have kind of just led to the next one in a way. And it's. They're, you know, very often it's kind of word of mouth of whoever we need at a given time. And, you know, I am extremely. I've learned so much from them, and they're a very talented bunch, and we're a very tiny but tightly knit team, and we have a lot of fun together.
- [40:28]
Lauren Sherman
One person that you work with who is like a through line on this podcast and I feel like should come on the podcast. I don't know if she ever would, but is Nicole Carey, who's a brand consultant and is kind of, as I've said before, she works with High Sport. She worked with High Sport. She worked with Scott Scott, Scott Speedman, Scott Sternberg at Band of Outsiders and Entire World and, you know, across Sophie Buhai. She's worked with a lot of brands. Like, when she's working with something, I know it's good. I think that also just speaks to your editorial sensibility and knowing who will be right and who won't and using instinct informed by information. And that that is again, I mean, I guess my. A big I do want to ask you really quickly about wholesale, but a big question for you is you covered this industry for a long time. You were a consumer of it. I know you follow it closely. What made you think, oh, it's worth it to get into this? Because I feel like when I talk to young designers, I'm sure you had this experience when you were an editor. I'm always like, like, maybe you should just go work for someone else. So what made you think, you know what, I'm actually gonna try this? Even though I know this industry is like, basically impossible, you know, I wish.
- [41:54]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
It was more thought out. I basically was at a moment where the way that it all started was like, I just want to do one shirt and see if anyone will buy it. And it, you know, I don't even know that there will be a brand name behind it. And I was also writing, still writing at the time and, and freelancing and working on some longer form pieces. And it felt like there was nothing to lose. One style. Let's. Let's see what happens. And, you know, I started the development on that one style before COVID happened, and over the course of the. Of the quarantine, it enabled me to really flesh out of that initial capsule collection. So we did add a few more styles and, you know, create, you know, what. What was now that, you know, first real collection. But at the time, it was like, just felt like product that needed to exist. And I had, you know, I was like, let's, let's see. I'll send it to friends. Maybe my mom will buy one. But beyond that, it wasn't, you know, I didn't even really feel like I was going into fashion at the beginning.
- [43:05]
Lauren Sherman
Maybe your really chic aunt who has become the sort of adder C spokesperson. I've been obsessed with her. She always looks so amazing.
- [43:14]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Well, Barb has my aunt, who Barbara Guggenheim, has had a really big impact on my style my whole life. And I, you know, as I, I'm an only child and she has no children, she's really become a second mom to me. And my mom and aunt together would always kind of hand me down things or we'd all share things. And, and I, you know, I always, I feel very moved when I see clients and their moms share products. And very often women and their moms come in together to our events and they buy things together, and it's really this wonderful, really beautiful thing that we've noticed. But Barb has always had an incredible effect and influence on me. And she wears things that she has had for years and has always kept. And, you know, I'll, I'll run into her on the street and she's wearing something she's had since, like 1996, and it looks just brand new and perfect and so effortless. And so when, when she got remarried a year ago, she asked me to create a custom suit for the wedding. And so we created our custom version of our Cecily jacket from our core collection. And we did it in a duchess satin with cigarette pants for her in this beautiful ivory color. And she wore it and looked amazing. And, you know, since then, we call it the Barb effect. We've had a few more people come in and, and really. And, and won a version of that suit. So that's been a surprise.
- [44:46]
Lauren Sherman
If I had gotten married post Odyssey, I would have been like, I just want that. She looked amazing. So one more nuts and bolts. You mentioned wholesale. What, what do you want to do? Do you want to raise money? Do you want to, to. Well, have you raised money? Like, what is the, the. I should have asked that before a bad business journalist. But, like, what's your business plan for this? Like, you, you are in select wholesale. It seems really thoughtful. Are you going to raise money? Are you going to keep growing it slowly? Like, how are you. Because it's, it's not easy. I'm sure that you are either profitable or close to it, but, like, every year is different. LVMH just sent out a warning that it's going to be a bad quarter. Again, like, it's not. This isn't an easy business. So what, what do you plan to do to sustain it financially?
- [45:44]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Yeah, well, we've bootstrapped since the Very beginning and are incredibly, I would say, tight and scrappy. Wholesale is, is not, I would say a major growth category for us. As you can imagine, we are in select stores now and looking to expand wholesale in a very, I would say slow and very thoughtful way to key partners around the country to start and hopefully then internationally after that that have a frankly a proven track record and high touch relationship with their customers and have built a lot of trust with their client base. And we've been lucky enough to find some great partners in for this season and then you know, we'll grow to a few more next season and you know, and, and beyond that, I think one thing that we're sort of at this moment of leaning into what's working and listening really closely to what has been working so far. And that extends to both a category to product, listening to what product is working, listening to kind of how our customers are shopping both online and in person and listening to the channels that are working. And it's very clear to us that in person is working very well. It is, you know, the studio space that I mentioned, which started as this by appointment location, it's on 64th in Madison, it's on a fourth floor, has morphed into a real retail space and now it's open six days a week. We staff it like a store. Most of our clients are walk ins now and it's just, it's really interesting to see how much of a lift often these, these trunk shows can be and there is not a lift in opening your own in you know, running our New York store now. And it's really working. And so that's been this kind of unexpected surprise is how much our, this brick and mortar footprint is, has changed the business. And I think we'll be leaning more into that in the coming year.
- [47:59]
Lauren Sherman
So would you consider raising money to be able to open up more stores or would you rather, and I mean you don't have, you, you don't have to know for sure. But would you rather try to do it with, without raising for as long as possible?
- [48:15]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
You know, that's a great question. We are certainly entertaining conversations, I will say that. But the, the, the climate so far has been, you know, bootstrapping has really been the, the ideal way forward for us up until this point.
- [48:33]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I think to me the thing that I see is the longer people can do more on their own, the better off they are. We'll see. But also if you need the money, take it. Everything's for sale. Isabel, I just respect you so much, and I loved writing for you, and I love seeing this brand develop. You should just be so proud. And I also love buying it. It's. I'm a customer, so congrats on everything, and I look forward to seeing what. What you do next.
- [49:07]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Thank you so much, Lauren. That means a lot.
- [49:09]
Lauren Sherman
It was so fun. Where can. If people are. Are shopping wholesale, where can they buy it?
- [49:15]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
We're at Outline in Brooklyn Capital and Hero Shop.
- [49:21]
Lauren Sherman
Amazing. All three of three. The Outline ladies are coming to the dinner next week.
- [49:27]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Oh, great. They're so wonderful. And yeah, we'll have a few more stores to announce in the fall and. But it's been, you know, my favorite thing is just going and visiting our retail partners and meeting so many of, you know, these independent store owners are really a special bunch, and it's been great. So. Yeah. And I'm excited to see you next week.
- [49:50]
Lauren Sherman
I know it'll be so fun. Thank you again for doing this, and we'll talk really soon.
- [49:53]
Isabel Wilkinson Shore
Thanks so much for having me.
- [49:55]
Lauren Sherman
Bye. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman, and Bob Tabador.