Ep. 566: Lotion P50 Drama, Big Hair, B Corps & The Week’s Beauty News

Summary

Fat Mascara Podcast Episode 566 Summary: Lotion P50 Drama, Big Hair, B Corps & The Week’s Beauty News

Released on February 19, 2025

Hosts: Jennifer Sullivan & Garrett Muntz
Podcast Description: Beauty journalists Jessica Matlin and Jennifer G. Sullivan provide unfiltered discussions on beauty news, cultural trends, and the latest products and treatments. This episode dives deep into the controversies surrounding Lotion P50, the resurgence of 80s-inspired hair trends from New York Fashion Week, the integrity of B Corps in the beauty industry, and the growing influence of Ozempic among medical professionals.

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1. Garrett’s Engagement with High School Students on Beauty Culture

[02:36 - 08:42]

Garrett Muntz shares his recent experience speaking at Shout Out Communications High School in Monmouth County, New Jersey. During career day, he engaged with juniors and seniors about their relationship with beauty culture and media consumption.

• Decline of Print Media Usage: Garrett discovered that the majority of students no longer read print magazines, relying instead on platforms like TikTok for news and trends.

  “Most of them were like, well, I read the ones that my parents get and I was like, yeah, okay, not surprised.” ([03:29])

• Skepticism Toward Celebrity-Driven Beauty Brands: When discussing celebrity beauty brands, Garrett found that students were not swayed by the celebrity endorsements unless they personally knew and liked the celebrity.

  “None of them really cared about that.” ([05:10])

• Impact on Brand Loyalty: A notable student mentioned purchasing Rare Beauty based on recommendations prior to knowing it was Selena Gomez’s brand, indicating that product quality holds more weight than celebrity association.

  “I love rare beauty, but I love it because I tried it because someone recommended it to me before I knew that it was Selena Gomez.” ([05:09])

2. Celebrity Beauty Brands: Product Quality vs. Celebrity Endorsement

[06:22 - 07:53]

The hosts discuss the misconception that celebrity backing is the primary driver of a beauty brand’s success. Garrett emphasizes that without quality products, the celebrity factor becomes irrelevant.

“If the product is not good, it's not going to matter at all who's behind it or not.” ([06:22])

Jennifer adds that while investors are attracted to celebrity brands due to their robust marketing and funding, the long-term success hinges on product efficacy.

3. New York Fashion Week: A Nostalgic Return to 80s-Inspired Hair Trends

[17:19 - 24:46]

Jennifer and Garrett delve into the latest trends observed at New York Fashion Week, highlighting a significant shift back to exuberant, sculptural hairstyles reminiscent of the 1980s.

• Notable Hair Trends:

  • Sculptural Loops: Inspired by Lacy Redway at Christian Siriano, featuring loops in the back.
  • Horn-Inspired Styles: Helen Estrada introduced “horns,” creating angular shapes with a center part.
  • Bumper Bangs: Christopher John Rogers showcased structured, asymmetrical bangs likened to classic pin-up styles.

  “It's all about, like, big nails, big makeup. Color is back. It's all connected.” ([24:40])

• Reflection of Socioeconomic Movements: Garrett connects the resurgence of 80s styles to broader societal sentiments, noting that opulent and extravagant aesthetics often surface during periods of economic inflation and conservative political climates.

  “Because it was about opulence and money and extravagance, and like, you wanted to look as rich as possible.” ([23:18])

4. B Corp Certification Controversy: Dr. Bronner's Takes a Stand

[25:55 - 34:42]

The conversation shifts to the integrity of B Corp certifications within the beauty industry, focusing on Dr. Bronner's recent decision to dissociate from the B Corp label due to declining standards.

• Background on B Corps: B Corporations are certified by B Lab, ensuring companies meet stringent social and environmental performance standards.

• Dr. Bronner's Response: Dr. Bronner's criticized B Lab for certifying companies like Nespresso, part of Nestlé, which have been implicated in wage theft and abusive labor practices. As a result, Dr. Bronner's withdrew their own B Corp certification.

  “Dr. Bronner's laid down the law. They were like, well, you guys are not. If you're changing, then we're not gonna be B Corps.” ([26:50])

• Implications for the Beauty Industry: Garrett expresses surprise at the extent of Dr. Bronner's stance but acknowledges the broader issue of multiple certifications leading to potential greenwashing. He points out the complexity and cost associated with maintaining B Corp standards, making it challenging for smaller, indie brands to achieve certification.

  “So it's like, you could be Leaping Bunny, but not EWG and not a B Corp. But like, I'm a B Corp. You're not. I'm like, where does it end?” ([28:13])

• Consumer Responsibility: Both hosts agree that consumers must educate themselves about the certifications and what they represent, emphasizing the importance of transparency and accountability in brand practices.

  “If it matters to you, you kind of have to do your homework.” ([34:22])

5. Ozempic's Growing Popularity Among Doctors and Its Broader Impact

[35:21 - 39:45]

Jennifer and Garrett discuss a New York Times story highlighting the increasing use of Ozempic, a GLP-1 receptor agonist, among cardiologists and diabetes specialists.

• Doctors as Trendsetters: The adoption of Ozempic by medical professionals serves as an endorsement, boosting its credibility and popularity among the general public.

  “I think it's one of the most interesting medical advances we've seen in the last decade.” ([38:35])

• Behavioral Benefits: Beyond weight loss, Ozempic has been reported to help reduce addictive behaviors, such as excessive drinking, signaling its potential broader applications.

  “He said it even helped me stop drinking as much. There's been studies coming out now about how it can help with that.” ([38:10])

• Cautionary Notes: Garrett emphasizes the importance of consulting healthcare professionals before starting any medication, noting that both hosts are not medical doctors.

  “Do not take drugs unless you talk to your doctor.” ([39:30])

6. Lotion P50 Drama: Regulatory Challenges and Consumer Reactions

[40:27 - 48:28]

The episode addresses the ongoing controversy surrounding Lotion P50, a beloved exfoliating toner, focusing on its restricted availability due to regulatory changes.

• Regulatory Changes: Lotion P50’s flagship version from 1970 contains phenol, an antibacterial agent banned in the EU due to its potential to cause skin burns and eye damage. This has led to its phase-out in American products as well.

  “Americans’ access to Bielagique Recherge P50 Lotion. The 1970 version, which is the original... has been phased out.” ([40:31])

• Consumer Backlash: The removal of Lotion P50 has sparked frustration among loyal users who view it as a "Holy Grail" product.

  Garrett recounts encountering disappointed consumers at spas and clinics, highlighting the product’s cult status.

• Alternative Recommendations: Hosts suggest gentler alternatives for exfoliation, such as Thayers Witch Hazel with AHA or Paula’s Choice and Pixi Glow Tonic for those seeking effective yet milder options.

  “I’m convinced there’s a four or five different versions of it now... doesn’t do it for me.” ([44:32])

• Skin Health Advocacy: They advocate for a shift away from harsh exfoliants, promoting the importance of maintaining the skin barrier and using products that nourish without causing irritation.

  “I do think that this idea that you have to be harsh on your skin to make it better is not the vibe.” ([48:04])

7. Listener Feedback and Product Recommendations (“Raise a Wand” Segment)

[52:39 - 67:56]

In the interactive "Raise a Wand" segment, the hosts engage with listener Mj, a nurse from upstate New York, who shares her favorite beauty products and poses questions about Herbal Face Food and G Beauty.

• Product Endorsements:

  • Make Up For Ever’s Setting Spray: Praised for long-lasting makeup.
  • Paula’s Choice Collagen Peptide Moisturizer: Recommended for its dual role as a moisturizer and primer.

• Listener Questions Addressed:

  • Herbal Face Food: Jennifer critiques the brand’s extensive list of botanical extracts, raising concerns about product efficacy and potential allergens.

    “It's just a lot of hype. It’s also from a self-help author in Washington... I can't keep it.” ([57:25])

  • G Beauty: Discusses the importance of brand transparency, cautioning against companies that obscure ownership and lack clear information about their practices.

    “If you're doing business, why would you be hiding?” ([57:07])

• Personal Recommendations: Garrett shares his positive experience with the Pigm400 version of Lotion P50 and introduces alternative products for exfoliation and skin care.

8. Closing Remarks and Community Engagement

[67:14 - End]

The hosts conclude the episode by encouraging listeners to engage through ratings, reviews, and sharing their beauty questions via email or voice messages. They emphasize the community aspect of the podcast and express appreciation for their listeners' support.

“It's your reviews and feedback that help us make the podcast even better.” ([67:17])

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Notable Quotes:

• “If the product is not good, it's not going to matter at all who's behind it or not.” – Garrett Muntz ([06:22])
• “If it matters to you, you kind of have to do your homework.” – Jennifer Sullivan ([34:22])
• “I'm convinced there's a four or five different versions of it now... doesn’t do it for me.” – Garrett Muntz ([44:32])

---

Conclusion:

Episode 566 of Fat Mascara offers a comprehensive exploration of current beauty industry trends and controversies. From the skepticism of younger audiences towards celebrity-driven brands to the resurgence of bold 80s hairstyles, the hosts provide insightful commentary on the evolving landscape. The discussion on B Corp certifications underscores the complexities of maintaining ethical standards in large conglomerates, while the Lotion P50 drama highlights the delicate balance between product efficacy and regulatory compliance. Additionally, the segment on Ozempic sheds light on the intersection of medical advances and beauty culture. Overall, this episode serves as an informative guide for beauty enthusiasts navigating the multifaceted world of beauty products and industry standards.

Transcript

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[Acast Announcer]

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Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com okay. Hello. Welcome to Fat Mascara. I'm Jen Sullivan.

[Garrett Muntz]

Hi, I'm Garrett Muntz.

[Acast Announcer]

He's Garrett Muntz. This is a podcast about beauty culture. Hi, everyone.

[Garrett Muntz]

Hi. How's it going?

[Acast Announcer]

It's going well with me. I don't know about our audience, but I hope it's going well with them too. Then you are like, they're getting a double dose of you. I think we had because of scheduling, I'm not gonna see Julie again till next week or two weeks from now. So it's like double Garrett in a row without Jess. They're very lucky.

[Garrett Muntz]

I feel so honored. But yeah, you know, we all have crazy schedules these days. There's a lot happening, so. So it's always nice to fit this in when we can, right?

[Acast Announcer]

It is. Says the man that's about to go off to Thailand. But we're not talking about that because nobody wants to hear about That I want to hear about you inspiring the youth of America.

[Garrett Muntz]

Oh, my God. So I. Last week I went to go speak at my friend's. So my friend is a principal at a high school in Jersey, Shout Out Communications High School in Monmouth County, New Jersey. It's an awesome school. I don't know if it's like a magnet school or some sort, but it's from all over the county and it's like a communications focused school. So I went to speak at their career day. I was very honored that they asked me to speak and it was great. I had such a great time. I was able to ask a few questions of the students. It was mostly juniors and seniors in high school, so we're talking 17, 18 year old. And there were a few takeaways that I thought were really interesting. Some that I wasn't super shocked at. I did ask all of them if they read any print magazines. Guess what the answer was?

[Acast Announcer]

Well, no.

[Garrett Muntz]

No. Most of them were like, well, I read the ones that my parents get and I was like, yeah, okay, not surprised.

[Acast Announcer]

Did they know what Esquire was?

[Garrett Muntz]

They do. I mean, they were aware of what media brands were. They just don't read the print, the.

[Acast Announcer]

Paper version of it.

[Garrett Muntz]

Okay. And unsurprisingly, they get all their news from TikTok. Basically everything is TikTok. But one of the that I thought was interesting is they don't even follow A, they don't follow media brands on TikTok. B, they don't even really. None of them said that they really follow big influencers. They were much more into micro niche. You know, they're like, we like to curate our own kind of group based on our aesthetics or how we identify, whatever. So they weren't really into like the Alex Earls of the world, like the huge, huge, huge, you know, people that were all shot.

[Acast Announcer]

And are you speaking for like somewhat beauty? Did you ask them all about at all about that?

[Garrett Muntz]

So the beauty part was interesting because I didn't get to talk to all of them about beauty specifically because each talk was only like 15 minutes. And I did five. There was like a rotation of five. But in one of them, I did get to talk a little bit about beauty. And specifically we're talking about celebrity beauty. And the ones that were talking to me in that grouping were like, we don't care at all about celebrities beauty. They're like, this one girl was like, I love rare beauty, but I love it because I tried it because someone recommended it to me before I knew that it was Selena Gomez.

[Acast Announcer]

Okay.

[Garrett Muntz]

And then she was like. And then I found out. And I was like, oh, that's cool. But it wasn't like a selling point for her. And I was like, well, have you tried something like Rhode? She was like, I would never try Rhode. I just don't like Hailey Bieber and I don't have. There's no reason to read it.

[Acast Announcer]

So if it's tied to the celebrity and they know who the celebrity is, that's gonna. Then if they don't like the celebrity, forget about it. You're not gonna. A new customer.

[Garrett Muntz]

Right. And part of it too, she was like, I haven't tried. Part of why I haven't tried road is because I haven't wanted to buy it. And I was like, well, is that going to change now that it's in Sephora? And she was like, probably not.

[Acast Announcer]

So she does shop. This person does shop at Sephora.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah. Like, that's where she buys her rare beauty. So I just thought it was very interesting that, like, we always talk about these celebrity brands and like driving the culture and all this stuff, but I was like, shocked that none of them really cared about that. Yeah.

[Acast Announcer]

But I have to think of the business side of it, which is like, well, their investors cared. Like, how did they get all this cool products with custom packaging in a Sephora? Because they had all that money and some of the investors for a while felt safer investing in Rare. Like, if Rare was by an unknown name, would it have had such a huge launch with all those SKUs with money already to play with marketing and, you know.

[Garrett Muntz]

Correct. But I think for me, what was interesting is that I think with these celebrity brands, and we've kind of talked about this before, is that I think people assume that the draw is the celebrity, but it really boils down to the product. If the product is not good, it's not going to matter at all who's behind it or not. And that generation we think of as like so engrossed in that celebrity kind of micro trend, like always buying the newest thing, but even there, like, if.

[Acast Announcer]

It doesn't work, it doesn't work.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah. So that was kind of refreshing to me, actually.

[Acast Announcer]

Did any of them have their birthday party at Sephora?

[Garrett Muntz]

No, they were a little bit too old for that, I think.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah, we actually got. We got a bunch of voicemails from people. I'm going to play them next week when Jess is back about. Because I want to keep collecting them about. And some younger people too, talking about that trend that, like, how quickly it came about like people in their 20s are like, we weren't doing that. And I was a teenager, you know, six years ago.

[Garrett Muntz]

I loved you and Jess's conversation about it last week because I think her perspective as a parent is so important in that whole conversation. Because there is such a thing about parent versus parent, right?

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah.

[Garrett Muntz]

And we didn't really touch on that last when we talked about it, but there is a. That's a huge aspect of this, I think, that we had kind of not talked about.

[Acast Announcer]

Especially now when parents are so involved in their kids lives.

[Garrett Muntz]

Totally.

[Acast Announcer]

In a way that my love my parents, but they never were and I didn't want them to be. But it's so different now.

[Garrett Muntz]

Oh yeah, no, it's fascinating. It's such. It's so funny to me that like such a kind of a small story has created like such a conversation.

[Acast Announcer]

It's been boiling though. Yeah, I'm still interested in it. But it's cool that you were chatting with the youths.

[Garrett Muntz]

I wish I had more.

[Acast Announcer]

Garrett's 40 now, so he has to stay in touch with youth culture by visiting them in their natural habitat.

[Garrett Muntz]

It was funny. I was telling my friend Emily after who's the actual principal, I was like, this is the first time, A, I've been in a high school probably since I graduated, B, that I really around this many people that age. And I was like, I'm really impressed by how thoughtful they were and how they were all super smart. I wish that I had had more time to talk to them and have more of a conversation.

[Acast Announcer]

This is so funny because our intern Lexi, her next project she's working on is actually with Gen Alpha and bringing in some more voices from different generations. So listeners, stay tuned and Garrett's just previewing that for us. Well, while you were busy like inspiring the youth of tomorrow, I was out here just getting my face injected with stuff.

[Garrett Muntz]

Ah, go on.

[Acast Announcer]

I went for. I haven't had filler in a year. And I think it was. I'm that type. I think everybody sort of laid off filler for a little cause people were like getting, is it getting too plumped or whatever. And I started to see a new dermatologist and she was like, let me just see what's going on in your face. She didn't use an ultrasound to find out what's in there, but she had to get to know my face, I think. And she didn't want to like go in and start plumping things that didn't need plumping. So she did the filler on me for the first time she ever has. And mostly where she put it, which I thought you would think was interesting, was the back of my jaw. So like.

[Garrett Muntz]

Oh, like your masseters.

[Acast Announcer]

Yes. But the reason she did it there was sort of to just like pull back the softness around my mouth. Like, you know, as you get saggier and droopier. Marionette. So like just putting a little bit on the edge of my jaw. It was almost like as if you went in the mirror and held up your jowls. Now this does. I was like, are you sure that's even going to make a difference? Because at this point it's like once you're starting to like lose elasticity, like it's saggy little. I get that. I'm not expecting. And she was like, I'm. She said I was still at the point where, like, it would give it a little bit of a hold. So that's what she did.

[Garrett Muntz]

I love that. I love that idea. It looks really good. I have to say. Your face does look very radiant.

[Acast Announcer]

Well, I do think she's also one of those. She injects Botox in a way that different from I've had before, which is a little bit of it in a lot of places. Like I have Botox all over my face right now. The forehead's in the 11's where you would expect the crow's feet. But then she did a little bit of like above my upper lip. That kind of shortens that area. And then a bunch in my neck. Dude, she's going to town in my neck.

[Garrett Muntz]

Like the tendons?

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah, like the platysma muscles that are ropey looking. That is one reason people get it, but the other reason. Now, I wrote about this recently, but I don't think I've talked about it on the podcast. Have you heard of the Nefertiti neck lift?

[Garrett Muntz]

Yes.

[Acast Announcer]

She doesn't call it that, but basically if you get Botox in certain muscles that pull downward on your neck, that softens them and it has not, I'm not gonna say like a spring back effect, but the jowls and jaw and lower face look more lifted. They call it a Nefertiti neck lift. So after she had done all this, I go back two weeks. The way she does it is she puts your Botox in and then she wants to see you in two weeks to see if you need more anywhere. So she goes light first. She ended up giving me more, but I asked her, I was like, what was with all the next stuff? And I told her Nefertiti. She was like, I don't call it that. But, yeah, that's kind of what I was doing for you, which is just like reviving that lower half. So I like to be open with our listeners about all of it. So if you see me on the Instagram in those damn social video clips where I'm so close up and up in your face and ranting and raving in my Philly accent about the latest beauty. So sick of my face.

[Garrett Muntz]

Sometimes I think that's really, like, fascinating that way that she did it, though, because I found as a man, a lot of times my derm will place it kind of similarly, too. She doesn't fill my cheeks. Yeah, yeah.

[Acast Announcer]

Not in the cheeks. It's more about, like, further back.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause it doesn't add that volume. It just, like, lifts it. Yeah, I've been thinking about that for myself lately. I'm like, do I need a lower facelift?

[Acast Announcer]

What? I feel like we need music. Like, what operation is Garrick? You guys don't even know half of them because he texts me or he's writing about a story because he's trying a treatment, which we don't want to have you scoop yourself, so we have to wait for it to come out into the immediate outlet of your choice. But if you do, I'm curious to hear how it works on a more masculine face.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah, I mean, well, I also think, you know, this is. It goes along, too, with a lot of the conversations we've had around Ozempic and skin tightening and all that. When my weight fluctuates. Like, right now, I'm leaner than I usually am, and so I notice more. A lot more sagging in my face.

[Acast Announcer]

Oh, yeah.

[Garrett Muntz]

You know, like, when I smile and stuff. So I think that there's also. I sometimes will look in the mirror, and I'm like, ooh, I need to, like. I don't know.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah, it's strange. Well, that's what I've been up to. We also have some news to talk about. I feel like we should just get into it. What do you say?

[Garrett Muntz]

Let's do it.

[Acast Announcer]

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[Acast Announcer]

Okay, so you know, we're based in New York City, Garrett and I. New York Fashion Week just wrapped and I find that over the years I've done the podcast, I've talked less about Fashion Week on it because it's such a visual medium. And as like TikTok and social media has risen, I'm like, that's where people are getting the news. But I still obviously look at all the trends because I'm like trying to think bigger picture. What does this mean for beauty? What does this mean for hair? Etc. And of course all our friends that are hair stylists and things, they're working at Fashion Week. The thing that came out of New York that I just could not stop seeing. And I don't know if you look, do you go to shows or do you look at the photos?

[Garrett Muntz]

I mean, as a former fashion editor and whose job it was to go to like every show. Yeah, I do not really do that much anymore because I just, I'm so burnt out with the fact if I never sit on a fashion show bench again for the rest of my life, I'll be happy. I do look at them. Cause I think that they're important too, you know, for our jobs. I think for men it's a little bit less important in terms of trend aesthetic, like beauty trends.

[Acast Announcer]

Oh, right, right.

[Garrett Muntz]

But I do think that they're a really awesome place to get ideas and to see people being really creative. And I think that they're really fun to look at.

[Acast Announcer]

I agree. I stopped going physically to the shows when I stopped working at print magazines. Cause it was just like I'd much rather sit in my house and get an even better view of everything.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah.

[Acast Announcer]

But speaking of views. So I'm watching the models come down. First of all, they're all skinny again, sorry. To body acceptance movement. That was just could not help but notice that. And I shouldn't gloss over that. That is an important thing. But really I wanted to talk about the hair because all of the hair was very sculptural and interesting and big and swoopy. Couple examples. I'm not sure what to call this trend yet. Maybe as I tell you, then we can come up with the name. But Lacy Redway, who always does something sculptural and cool. At Christian Siriano, she did what she was calling Trackside tw. So they were like these sculpted loops in the back was very cool. Helen Estrada did horns. It was like, guys, picture your hair center parted and then like you slept funny. So it was dented into little triangles on either side of the part. They looked like horns.

[Garrett Muntz]

Like a Mugatu kind of thing from Zoolander.

[Acast Announcer]

Yes, but without the sculptural. Just like if you did it with a flat iron. So it was just like a bend in the hair.

[Garrett Muntz]

Oh, cool.

[Acast Announcer]

It happened to look Mugatsu. Good reference. Thank you. Then there were these really structured bangs at Christopher John Rogers. That was hairstylist Sunny Molina. And Garen. Garen always does the most sculptural cool things at Anna Sui did. I didn't know this is what they were called because I had to look it up. But you know, classic American pinup models in the hairstyle where it looks like a Betty Page. Yeah. Like a bubble bang.

[Garrett Muntz]

Uh huh.

[Acast Announcer]

Not called a bubble bang, guys. Called a bumper bang is kind of what the trend is called. Which I didn't. I had never heard that. But that rolled bang in the front. And then I see this. This is on. Grammys were happening around the same time. And there was all this news about the jellyfish haircut, which I'm not even gonna like. Do I even tell you What? That is fine. It's a dumb name. Someone gave this style that Cher had, like back in the 70s, which was like Bangs Bob Long, right?

[Garrett Muntz]

So like three legs graduated.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah, but it's not like a curtain bang where it's a soft graduation. There's a harsh cut between the three steps. Like steps, yeah. And then I also saw some people being like, that's not at all what that haircut's called. It's a very traditional Japanese style called the Hime cut, which came out like thousands of years ago. And I was like, oh, yeah, I did see that in the TV show that I was watching that was based in like ancient Japan. And they had that haircut with the half bang. And the half bang.

[Garrett Muntz]

Anyway, that's what like Lady Gaga and like Miley Cyrus had.

[Acast Announcer]

You got it. Exactly. Those were the two. Did I say that? No, I didn't. That's why we love you. So I'm seeing all of this structure, all of this asymmetry, all of these, like, styles. And you know what it made me think about? Things are feeling very 1980s in America right now.

[Garrett Muntz]

Uh huh.

[Acast Announcer]

Uh huh. In so many ways, the excess, the.

[Garrett Muntz]

Conservatism, trickle down economics trick.

[Acast Announcer]

And I was like, 80s is the last time I feel like hair was really something. Like people were spraying up their bangs. Salt and pepper had their asymmetrical do. There was structure. But then in the 90s and thousands, it sort of just like nobody went and got a cut. There's no mullet. And then you're getting this like. I remember like in the 80s, me and my mom, every time I went to the hairstylist was like, now I'll try this, now try that. It was like changed it up every month. But do you. Are you feeling this like, excess vibe in any beauty or wellness spaces that you're watching?

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah, I mean, I do think that there's this. I think what's so fascinating about what you were saying about beauty trends is that they are often reflective of a larger movement. Right. And I do, I feel like that's percolating as well. I mean, think about the like, corporate girl structured suits. The shoulder pads are back. Oh, yeah, it's all happening. And I feel like even at the Unilever trip last week, which we were talking about when I was there, Nexxus, whole new push is for volume products.

[Acast Announcer]

Volume? Yeah.

[Garrett Muntz]

Like, they taught us how to do a blowout with these products. The thing was like, see who can get the biggest hair. And I was like, this is the first time In a long time.

[Acast Announcer]

Success in the volume, but also in the, like, not being afraid to shape the hair into ways that it doesn't naturally fall. I just feel like the hair was, for so long has been like, oh, natural waves and bedhead and just woke up like this.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah. And I think part of it was like, in the 80s, the look. It was about having a done look done.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah.

[Garrett Muntz]

Because it was about opulence and money and extravagance and, like, you wanted to look as rich as possible. So you had all the trappings. Right. You had the big hair, the big colorful clothes. Think about, like, all of the designers that were big back then. It was all about scale and color and, like, proportion, excess. Right. And we're coming back into that. I think you can see it in aesthetics. Like. Yes. We've been talking about this movement away.

[Acast Announcer]

From like a more like mirrored surfaces and like some flashier kind of.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah. I mean, people want opulence. It's so interesting that that happens at times of, like, inflation.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah. Right. And at times of the political power is like a more conservative, yet the looks are less conservative almost, in a way. I just think that dichotomy is so interesting. And honestly, I haven't seen hair like that in New York. Cause New York's often very cool girl. And there were a lot of braids. Cause a lot of the models had natural braids. And then they would swoop them into shapes and a lot of edges too. Like, people are taking what would normally just be slicking your edges or doing little spit curl kind of things and, like, really doing things with them. Just like more of a personality.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah. I think that's awesome. I mean, think about that. It's like, it's all about, like, big nails, big makeup.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah.

[Garrett Muntz]

Color is back. It's all connected. I think that's really interesting.

[Acast Announcer]

Okay, moving on. This is such an opposite thing. This is why I love the beauty as a concept and this podcast. Because we could go from New York Fashion Week 80s XS to important news in the world of B Core. Dr. Bronner's. Dr. Bronner's is the most anti. What we were just talking about kind of brand, you guys, if you don't know the name, you know it. It's the Castile soap with 10,000 words on the label that you. You can use for 10,000 things. Very famously, I would say liberal and socialist kind of values at that company. And they've been for a long time in a B corps. Okay. So if you don't know what a B Corp is there's this independent verification body called the B Lab. And they will take a company and look at their social environmental performance, their transparency, their accountability, to make sure everything's up to grade with ESG principles that the stakeholders involved all get paid in a. In a way that feels fair. And it's not just about making money. It's about doing good as you make money. So that's what a B Core typically is. And some beauty brands you guys might know that are B Core right now. Veleda, Ursa Major, Aesop, Davines. You get the vibes.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah.

[Acast Announcer]

Well, so back in 2022, Dr. Bronner and some other brands started making noise because B Lab certified Nespresso, and Nespresso is part of Nestle. And they had some issues with wage theft and abusive factory workers that were all verified and verified by Nestle, yet they still were able to get their B Core certification. So basically what these brands were saying that already had B Corp were like, you're lowering your standards. If we're letting in brands like this that use oils, that clear cut forests in order to plant palm oils, that have issues with child labor, what is the point of B Cor anymore? So they made noise about it then. But then this week, the big news is Dr. Bronner's laid down the law. They were like, well, you guys are not. If you're changing, then we're not gonna be a B Corps. And they pulled out and they said, you can have your certification. We don't want it anymore. What did you think when you saw that news?

[Garrett Muntz]

I was surprised that they went that far, to be honest. But it also just. It really brought up some issues for me around all of these certifications. Right? Like, we constantly in beauty are talking about Leaping Bunny, EWG certificate, all of these different certifications that people can get. And for me, it was like, what did these mean? Like, you know, B Corp is one of the most common and one of.

[Acast Announcer]

The hardest to get, honestly, and one.

[Garrett Muntz]

Of the hardest to get, frankly.

[Acast Announcer]

And it's not just for clean and green. It's also for all those other things.

[Garrett Muntz]

I was talking about human rights sourcing. There's a lot of factors. And I honestly didn't know how complicated it is to get a B Corps till I read why they were upset at them. I always thought it was just environmental, right? But it goes into human rights. All of it. Complete supply chain, you know, everything. And I was like, okay, I mean, I get it. But I was also kind of like, they're Saying that now brands can get it and it's kind of like greenwashing because the standards are lower. Xyz. And it just another thing where people are like, I'm greener than you, I'm cleaner than you, I'm this. But, like, by whose standards? Like, there's no regulating body, there's all these little ones. Right?

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah.

[Garrett Muntz]

So it's like, you could be Leaping Bunny, but not ewg and not a B core. But like, I'm a B core. You're not. I'm like, where does it end? Can they just walk?

[Acast Announcer]

I know. Every time I think they come up with a new certification because, oh, people care now about wages and they'll certify like, oh, we're wages. There's always something different that people are going to care about. So I don't think there could be like one certification because, like, a one shopper might go in thinking, I just want fair labor practices. Just, I don't know that that's like a beauty shot. Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, I can't imagine that that's what someone shops for. But fine. Another person might go in and be like, vegan animal cruelty is what I care about first and foremost. Another person might say, I want my no toxins for me. Another person might say, I want no toxins for the environment. How do you verify? And it's so complicated. I actually spoke with the ESG person who's in charge of this at Amica, the hair brand, and we spoke at Nest's Climate Campus. They do an event every year for environmental practices. And she was explaining to me how difficult it is to get at BCOR and how much money it costs because you have to go to your suppliers and ask them for information. And sometimes that costs extra. But I guess what Dr. Bronner is not happy about is, and I think this is why they softened it, the supply chain stuff. People don't always know. So, like, a brand can do everything at their factory. Like, we use solar, we're super environmentally friendly. All of our workers are taken care of. But they might get mica from somewhere through three people. It goes through before it came from the mines and they don't know what's going on on the ground. And it's like the bigger question is, is it a brand's responsibility to know? And I kind of think, yes.

[Garrett Muntz]

I do think yes. But I also think you brought up a good point about how expensive it is.

[Acast Announcer]

That gets passed on to the consumer too.

[Garrett Muntz]

Right. But also it means, it's like just like in medicine and all that. It means that the large conglomerates are the ones that can afford to get this whatever certification it is or approvals or whatever. And it's interesting that their issue was brands like Nestle and I mean they also mentioned other large conglomerates that got B corp. And I'm like, yeah, of course. Because they can afford to pay.

[Acast Announcer]

They can hire one person who literally can track down all this information, put a whole person on salary. Which big brands do have, where some of these small indie brands that are like some of the most nimble and environmental, environmentally friendly and safely packaged and great just are like we don't have the resources to even get that certification.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah, I think that there's a certain amount of, a certain percentage of consumer that does care about these things. But you know, we have this talk all the time with brands where they're like, main marketing hook is clean. Right. And I'm like, I'm sorry, that's not enough anymore. That's table stakes for any brand also. It's like, what does it mean? It doesn't mean anything. You need to define that. No one is defining a blanket standard for what those things are. So it's like from a consumer standpoint we're all just like, oh yeah, is it clean? Great. But like, I think that that's not enough anymore to say that's a selling point for a product.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah. For people like us who do this for a living. That I have a, I have a great facialist, she's coming on Friday and she was talking about the brands that she used and she was like, I like this one because they don't put in toxins. I didn't. Because I know how people come to beauty in a different. They like everybody has their own version of how they've interpreted the data and whatever. But in my head I was like, nobody's putting toxins, literally nobody's putting toxins at toxin levels in your beauty products. There are ingredients that have questionable studies that may be linked to hormone disruption or cancer or that frankly like the palm oil just are clear cutting forests and not great for the environment. But those aren't toxins, you know, But I think that that word as well has just gotten to mean a blanket term for like a thing you don't want.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah. Cause it's bad things.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah, yeah. I am disappointed by this though, because for me B core was always the one that was like the most stringent. And I use that myself. Just thinking like, okay, if it's B Core, then I know they've got their ducks in a row. I know Dr. Bronner's is like the most extreme of all of them. So I'm not gonna guess that all of B Corp has gone to shit and is just greenw. In fact, I was talking to someone who used her job, used to be as a consultant for companies to help them reach B Core status. So she would come in and be like, okay, you have to clean up this and that. I can help you find a different supplier for this ingredient. That's a greener supplier. And that was her job. And she said to me, like, still, it's the hardest certification you can get, especially for the environmental stuff.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah, I think in that story it said that like, the average rating you have to have to pass B Corp is like an 80 and Dr. Bronner's is like a 206. So they're already like, so light years ahead of most companies. And that to me felt very social media echo chamber of like, okay, you're green. Well, we're greener and here's why we're greener. And we don't think that you should be part of this because you're not as green as us. And it's like, it made me want to kind of pull my hair out because I'm like, you guys are so far ahead. Like, can't you just be happy that more companies want to be a part of this and are making the effort?

[Acast Announcer]

That's a good point. That is a good point. That, like, and this is the other thing, the way B Corp does it, the numbers can get higher and higher. It's not like you start at 100 and if you mess up and say you use a bad ingredient or you don't pay people fairly, they knock off points. It's the other way. So every time you do something better for the company and the earth and the people that work there, you get more points, which is why it's not like on 100%, which I thought was interesting. So if that doesn't change and sure, you can get a 280, let's just be glad somebody got to 80, right?

[Garrett Muntz]

No, totally. That's just in general, I think that's just like the world that we're living in now. That's really driven by social media bubbles.

[Acast Announcer]

I hate always putting it on the consumer, though, because the ending thought I have on this is like, if it matters to you, you kind of have to do your homework. But I'm also like, modern Life has gotten easier. There's ways to do research on your own. And please. We sit in front of the TV for two hours a night. You could take 20 minutes of that to look up your brands and see if you're happy with it or do.

[Garrett Muntz]

It while you're watching tv. I mean, come on.

[Acast Announcer]

How about that? There we go. Multitasking. Anyway, Dr. Bronner's is always just like. They just push. And you know what? They always push people to do better. And I think it's interesting, and I'm glad that they're around and that they're successful because it shows people care about that stuff. Or they just really like the stuff. Me and my family just really like the soap.

[Garrett Muntz]

The soap is awesome.

[Acast Announcer]

Oh, my God. The lavender castile is in our shower always. And we do our whole house with Sal Suds. Sal Suds is their, like, house cleaning one with pine. I don't know. The whole. The brand just. It's quirky. I like it. Okay, moving on. Talk to me about doctors on Ozempic.

[Garrett Muntz]

Okay, so I wanted to bring this up. This story is incredible to me. It's from the New York Times. It's a frothy kind of funny story, but basically what it is is talk about all these doctors, specifically cardiologists and diabetes doctors who are on Ozempic, and how now they're going to conferences and they're all like, hey, you look so thin. So do you like Ozempic? Ozempic. And I think it was really funny to me. And at first I read it and I was like, well, duh, obviously. Right. But then it got me thinking about our world, and I was, like, thinking about how doctors, especially when you're talking about something from a derm standpoint, a plastic surgeon standpoint, but really anything doctor. It's like you're kind of your own advertisement in a way, right?

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah.

[Garrett Muntz]

And it's like it goes into our world. Like, I feel sometimes pressured to look like a beauty editor. Quite right. Or like, when you're at a gym and you're like, that guy looks like a trainer, or like, there's this certain world that we live in where, like, your physical being endorses you somehow in a way. And. And it made me think about when I interviewed derms and plastics. One of my questions is always, what do you do?

[Acast Announcer]

Always?

[Garrett Muntz]

Because it's like, if they do it, you know it's gonna be good.

[Acast Announcer]

Same with products. I mean, that's a basic question you ask at the end of every interview. Well, what do you use. Cause then, you know, yeah, but what do you do? And I have heard of treatments, like certain newer treatments that the derms are like, oh, I'm not. I'm using it on, like, other people right now. I haven't tried it yet myself. And I was like, I'm not getting anything a doctor's not doing to themselves.

[Garrett Muntz]

Totally. If a doctor's not gonna do it for themselves, it gives me pause. Right?

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah.

[Garrett Muntz]

Even if they've said, I tried it, it was not for me, but I think it would be good for you if they've tried it. I'm like, okay, all right, that's fine. But if they're like, I have never done this, I would never do it myself, but you should do it. I'm like, second opinion, please.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah, absolutely. And that article was so funny because it was a little bit frothy. But what it came down to was the larger picture of, you can tell which drugs. We were talking about treatments more, but also drugs like things like Botox and things like that are going to actually really be effective and big because of the doctors doing it. The other example they gave was statins, the class of drugs that lowers cholesterol. It was like, immediately doctors started taking it, and it was a game changer. And I guess they're saying that the GLP1s and Ozempic have hit that point where, like, okay, this is really happening. This isn't a fluke, and everybody's not gonna gain the weight back. You know what I mean? It's not like the snack walls of the 90s.

[Garrett Muntz]

Totally.

[Acast Announcer]

Like all those fad things we've had. My dad was on a weight loss drug in the 90s, like fen phen.

[Garrett Muntz]

Oh, fen phenyll. It was, like, recalled.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah. And then he had, like, heart conditions people had with it. And I remember I was like, wait, dad? Years later, I was like, weren't you on that? And he was like, oh, yeah. And I was like, maybe. Maybe that was not great for your heart. I don't know. But the fact that so many doctors are taking Ozempic, I think that's.

[Garrett Muntz]

It's really interesting. And I'm not surprised, frankly. I think Ozempic is one of the most interesting medical advances we've seen in the last decade. And it makes sense that all these doctors would be. Because also, it's like, being a doctor has got to be really tough, right? Because you're advising people on their health and their well being, but you're also a human being, too. So, like, you Obviously have your own issues around your health. And so sometimes the way that you look, is it reflective of your knowledge or your level of care or whatever? Because of various issues that are just human issues. Right. And so I do think it's an interesting thing that I was thinking about this one doctor who was quoted, and he was like, it even helped me stop drinking as much. There's been studies coming out now about how it can help with that. Right. And I was like, that's really interesting.

[Acast Announcer]

And maybe even gambling. Like, other behaviors that.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah, addictive behaviors, basically.

[Acast Announcer]

Addictive behaviors. I guess we'll see on that. By the way, not doctors. Just a little reminder here. Garrett and I play doctors on this podcast.

[Garrett Muntz]

We're just. We're like, enthusiasts. We're like doctor fans.

[Acast Announcer]

I'm just fascinated by, like, it's just something I love. Eric always, like, sometimes when we start talking, he reminds me. He's like, I got into medical school. I was like, you need to stop saying that. That means nothing. You didn't go. You got into medical school. You are not a doctor. And I have another family friend, and she just calls herself Dr. Lipson. She works at the front desk at a doctor's office. But, like, you know, when you're around it, you think. But anyway, Garrett and I are not doctors. Do not take drugs unless you talk to your doctor. But we'll link to this article because it's also just really interesting to see that side of this whole story we've been talking about. All right, last thing we wanted to talk about before we raise some wands is the drama going on in the spa industry and the skincare industry because of P50.

[Garrett Muntz]

You would think the world is ending.

[Acast Announcer]

The world is not ending. What is ending is Americans access to Bielagique Recherge P50 Lotion. The 1970 version, which is the original. It is the original. It was no longer available in Europe, by the way, as of. I feel like I wrote about that maybe 10, 15 years ago.

[Garrett Muntz]

It's been a long time.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah. So it has this ingredient, phenol, which was banned in the eu. It's an antibacterial, but it also can cause skin burns and eye damage in high doses. And it's just been phased out of almost every product that is a consumer product. And it was a matter of time before it was phased out of American products. But here we all like, I want clean. I want clean. And they can't get their P50 1970 version. And they're freaking out.

[Garrett Muntz]

I was at the Shaffer Clinic this morning, and I saw our friend Edita Jarose, who we've talked about before, the Facialist. And I was like, girl, what's happening? She's like, people are flipping their lids, and it makes sense. It sucks to have your favorite product not available anymore, right? And that's a very popular, very iconic product that for years people have said is the only, you know, the Holy Grail. Whatever, whatever. I've used it before. I still use a virgin. I'm convinced There's, I think, four or five different versions of it now.

[Acast Announcer]

There's P50 of P50.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah, there's P50. There's P50V.

[Acast Announcer]

And for people who are not familiar, how would you describe what this lotion essence is and what it does?

[Garrett Muntz]

It's an exfoliating toner.

[Acast Announcer]

Thank you.

[Garrett Muntz]

Basically, there's lactic acid in it. I think there's a cocktail of acids that are exfoliating. So you use it as an exfoliator, right. And people say it changes their skin. And there's this, like, really famous smell and the tingle and whatever. And I have some friends that were like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. And I'm like, frankly, you need to use a different one anyway. Because the thing is, I think people, for so long, especially when it first came out, felt like in order for a skincare product to be working, it had to hurt, right? There had to be some sort of sensation. And this stuff is strong. Like, you will be red when you use it. It tingles so much.

[Acast Announcer]

Can I just tell you about the first time I used P50? And I think it was the 1970 version. So I just went right in. Baby beauty editor. Oh, it's whatever. The swelling that I got, immediately I got stinging, and I was like, oh, interesting. And then hives, swelling, bright red, so hot. It took about four hours. I had to use ice packs. I got straight up hives that, like, then went down to my chest where I didn't put it. I know I have sensitive skin, but I could not believe how harsh it was. And it smelled so bad. And I. I felt like I had burned myself. Like an idiot. I was like, well, not for me.

[Garrett Muntz]

That's wild. I mean, I feel like that's what people think it needs to do, though.

[Acast Announcer]

So people who like it, though, they just get a light tingle from it. They don't get like that. Obviously, if you're turning bright red and getting hives, the product's not for you. But even that tingle to me says you're sucking away some moisture and you're causing some inflammation. Why else would your nerves be reacting?

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah. And when you're exfoliating, I mean, think about it. You're like messing up with your skin barrier. I don't know. I've had so many different facialists recommend every single version of it to me over the years, and I've tried them all. And the one that I use now is the newest one, the PAGM 400, which is more for pigment. And it's the most gentle one. And that was the first one that I ever used that doesn't tingle, does not make me red. Beet red.

[Acast Announcer]

Wait, tell me the name. Do they still call it P50 or they call it P something else.

[Garrett Muntz]

It's P50, P I G M400.

[Acast Announcer]

It's so complicated, so scientific.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah, but it's basically like the most gentle version. And I don't even use it every day. I use it.

[Acast Announcer]

And you use it to help with like pigmentation, like spots and things.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah, I mean, I use it as my exfoliation, but it's designed to help with pigmentation issues. I also have rosacea, so my skin gets really red. But I had this one friend who sent me a photo of his face after he uses it, and his face was bright red and I was like, don't use it.

[Acast Announcer]

Right. Oh my. I was getting excited when you were talking. I was like, maybe I need that version. Why am I know better. I know better. I've been doing this for years. It's not for you, Jen. But like, it's got this cult status.

[Garrett Muntz]

I. Yeah, I feel like people just are overreacting for this perceived. Like my life is gonna be different or worse because this is not available anymore. But I'm like, I don't know. But maybe this is the push that most of these people need to use the right product.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah. Also, I'll tell you, that stuff's not cheap. And I was talking to some dermatologists and looking around, I was like, what can people who loved P50 1970 or another version use? Two different people recommended. And then I actually have used this. And I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot about witch hazel. So Thayer's. You know how they have a witch hazel, just pure witch hazel, but they also have a 2% aha version. So it's witch hazel is the base solution, but then you have the aha, which are the alpha hydroxy acids, which are the exfoliants in P50. But in witch hazel, which is anti inflammatory, which I think people forget because it seems like it's an astringent and it sucks away oil and stuff. But it is also anti inflammatory. So it's not. Not bad for your skin. And then it's 15 bucks. So I'm gonna put a link. Cause like if you didn't try P50 or you need an exfoliating liquid and don't wanna. Paula's choice is great. They have a bunch of versions as well. But if you don't wanna pay for that same.

[Garrett Muntz]

There's also the Pixi Glow Tonic is.

[Acast Announcer]

A really good too. It's too harsh for me. I've tried that one. I love it.

[Garrett Muntz]

That's like a lot of glycolic. It's like 15% glycolic or something. There's a lot of glycolic in there.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah. My skin cannot take it. I mean, I had acne up until like 31, I would say. But I was just using benzoyl peroxide because every time I tried, we didn't really have these lotions. As many options in the liquid exfoliants anyway.

[Garrett Muntz]

No, the other one, I just. I was just using one that I really like from Weleda.

[Acast Announcer]

Oh, they have a liquid exfoliant in their lips.

[Garrett Muntz]

Well, I don't know if it's technically an exfoliant. It's more of a toner. It's a pore refining toner. And it has witch hazel in it. And it's like witch hazel, tea tree, aloe maybe. I think like a sage extract in there. It's not, I don't think technically an exfoliant, but I really like. It's really good if you have blackheads or things like that. It's just a nice little step, that whole thing.

[Acast Announcer]

Pore refining. Whenever something says pore refining in my head, I'm always like, oh, so you dried out my face? Cause I know what they're talking about. Like when you put the right kind of toner on your face, just like it does that a little bit. And your pores do look smaller. I know the derms say they're not really getting smaller, but they just look that soft, blurred matte finish kind of.

[Garrett Muntz]

Totally.

[Acast Announcer]

And that's really nice as a base for makeup too. I get it. But is your barrier getting hurt in the long run?

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah. I mean, these days with my rosacea and stuff, I'm much more into like keeping everything intact and being as gentle as possible. And I think more people. I hope more people think about their skin that way moving forward, especially after this P50 thing because I do think that this idea that you have to be harsh on your skin to make it better is not the vibe.

[Acast Announcer]

I know. And we keep writing about it and talking about it, and yet people still love a burn.

[Garrett Muntz]

I know. It's that psychosomatic thing of like, if it hurts, something has happened.

[Acast Announcer]

No pain, no gain.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah.

[Acast Announcer]

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[Jen Sullivan]

Just $10 a month build annually. A membership with Masterclass gets you unlimited access to every instructor and you can access Masterclass on your phone. That's how I like to watch it. Computer, smart TV or even an audio mode. Now there are so many classes. I mean I could be here all day telling you about some of my favorites. But if we want to talk about beauty, Sir John does a class Create makeup looks for any moment moment. Jen Atkin has a class style your own hair for any occasion. And of course there are classes on lifestyle, food, your mind, your body, everything.

[Acast Announcer]

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[Acast Announcer]

Okay it is time to raise a wand. So our raise a wand today. We know her, she has called in to raise a wand before. I think you're going to recognize the voice. I'm just going to play it with it. Here we go.

[G]

Hey it's NJ nurse from upstate New York. I just wanted to raise a wand to a couple things. One is makeup by Mario's Setting spray is amazing. It just does something to your face and certainly your makeup does last all day. In addition, the new Paula's Choice Collagen Peptide moisturizer is also amazing and works great as a primer. I would like to ask two questions. Have you ever heard of herbal face food products and what are your thoughts? And also G Beauty. Have you ever used any of their products? Would love to hear. My goal in life would be to be on your podcast. I'm sorry that's my dog barking. Okay, all take care.

[Acast Announcer]

Garrett. She has a name.

[Garrett Muntz]

Mj.

[Acast Announcer]

We love you, mj. Welcome to the fam. I love how you just started talking as if you had said your name the last time, which you did not. You were just our nurse from upstate New York. So you're mj. She's the one who told us about the Maya perfume oil last time. And she's of course, gave me my new favorite saying. If you can't be good, be careful.

[Garrett Muntz]

Ugh. The best.

[Acast Announcer]

But I love when people ask questions on the line, so I wanted to look into this for you. She brought up two lines that I. One of them I knew and I had looked into. But I'll just get into it to answer your questions. Well, also, thank you for the Paula's Choice collagen peptide raison. Excellent. But to answer your question about Herbal Face Food. So yes, here's the thing. Herbal face food is one of those brands where they have sellers, social sellers, who get a percentage of the product when they sell it themselves. It's not an mlm, but it's that social selling model. And I'm often wary of like the word of mouth recommendations that come out of this because you see this person on Facebook and they're raving about the product, product they love and they're like, you can buy it from me, I'm a seller. And you're like, yeah, you're raving about it because you're about to make five bucks off me when I buy it from you. So I'm always wary of that. The second thing about these products, mj, that gave me pause was their main product called the cure, contains this is a quote, 50 different botanical extracts. I know that sounds great, but what that says to me is none of them are going to be at the clinically effective level because getting 50 botanical extracts to play nicely in one serum, they're not potent. Two allergies. Do you know how many botanical extracts people are allergic to? And this one has like random. There's carrot seed, there's lavender, there's cinnamon, There's a. It's just like everything in the kitchen sink. So I think it's just a lot of hype. It's also from a self help author in Washington that like me, it's just kind of random. My last thing I'll say because I want to diss it too hard because I have not used it, is is their serum, their hero product for 0.3 ounces. So it's 10 milliliters, which you're like, oh, 10 millimeters. Do the math. That's 0.3 ounces is $114. MJ. You can find good skincare for less than that. That's like Augustinus Bader level prices. And that's a brand that has clinicals that they've published and before and afters, which this brand doesn't seem to. So I can't keep it. Like. Like I can't give it my stamp of approval. I'm sorry, but the other one you asked about, G Beauty, that I at least like that they're doing a more targeted skin concern. So each product has like this ingredient for this particular issue instead of like it does everything. I think product like it does everything doesn't do it for me. However, I am wary of brands that hide who owns their domain. There's a little trick I have if you go to a website and first of all, they don't have like an about us story. You can't find out who the owner of the company is and there's no legal disclaimer about the copyrighted information on the website. Red flag for me, even more of a red flag is you can look up who owns each particular website and there's these screening companies that basically you can pay so you can hide who the owner of the domain is anytime. I've worked with a brand that has that. One of these pheromones, beauty oils that I had to write about, I couldn't track down the people. I finally got a phone number. Turned out it was one of these companies in Florida. They're all in Florida for some reason. That basically hide the identity of who owns the website and the company from us? I'm sorry, if you're doing business, why would you be hiding?

[Garrett Muntz]

What are you hiding?

[Acast Announcer]

What are you hiding? Like, what's the point? Isn't the whole thing that, like, we want brands to be transparent and authentic so we can trust the products they're making? So I don't know G Beauty. I don't want to diss the product products themselves, but I just got like a. It's not a red flag. A beige flag for me on that one. Because of the fact that you can't figure out who owns this company, I would be wary. Right.

[Garrett Muntz]

Healthily skeptical.

[Acast Announcer]

Which it sounds like. MJ's a nurse. She's already a skeptic. She knows. Anyway, I know your dream is to come on the podcast. Does it count that we've now played your voice twice? I feel like.

[Garrett Muntz]

And that we're like your biggest fan.

[Acast Announcer]

We are your biggest fans. We love you, mj, but call us on our line. People have been calling to share their thoughts on birthday parties at Sephora, So you can do that. Cause I'll be playing some next week. 646-4818182. Or to raise a wand to product you love, like this Paula's Choice Peptide moisturizer we just heard about. Or anything else you want. I don't know. Just say hi to Garrett and me, Jess, Julie, whatever. All right, let's raise our wands. Garrett and I text and put notes before we get on to do the show. I didn't want to ask about this because I'm so excited, but I have no idea what it is. Tell me everything. What are you raising Juan to?

[Garrett Muntz]

Okay, so to allude to something that you said earlier, I had a procedure done last week that I've been in recovery for not. I can't really go into it yet because it's still too early to talk about results and all that kind of stuff. Anyway, part of the recovery process of this procedure is lymphatic massage.

[Acast Announcer]

Okay.

[Garrett Muntz]

And since I cannot afford or have time to get a lymphatic massage every day from someone, they recommended that I got this thing called a fascia blaster.

[Acast Announcer]

Guys, I'm gonna find out what fascia.

[Garrett Muntz]

So I think that fascia blaster is actually, like, a trademarked tool, but this is. I did not get the actual one. I got one of the other versions, which I will link to off of, is from Amazon $23. Something like that. It looks like this.

[Acast Announcer]

Okay. Describe that.

[Garrett Muntz]

Since we're audio, it's like a handheld, like, handle that has these on the bottom. It has these kind of, like, nubbins.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah.

[Garrett Muntz]

That as you run over your body, are meant to mimic human fingers, but it's supposed to, like, break up your fascia. Your fascia. And, like, it's so insane. I was like, this is not gonna do anything the first night I tried. Feels so good.

[Acast Announcer]

Oh, it does. That looks like it's gonna be firm when you rub that on.

[Garrett Muntz]

Well, you're also. You're doing it yourself, so you can kind of adjust the pressure based on what you need. I mean, the first night, the area was pretty painful, so I was very gentle. And as time has gone on, I've gotten more and more firm with it. So basically, you need to use it with an oil. So I put a body oil on, and then I use it on the area. And it's so good that even my husband, who is Not a beauty editor, Right? So he's, like, curious, but not as into this stuff as I am. He was like, what's that? And I used it on his arm. When I tell you his eyes rolled back in his head and he started to drool. I was like, this thing is good.

[Acast Announcer]

So you can give yourself a massage. Those look like little fingers. It's not just kneading. You're getting the.

[Garrett Muntz]

Oh, yeah. And on each side, there's this kind of nub. And if you can dig it in, it's like, oh, my God, I feel so good.

[Acast Announcer]

I bet on the. Oh, my neck.

[Garrett Muntz]

That would feel so good anywhere. I've now used it. I mean, the main area that I've been using it as my flanks, because that's where the treatment was. But I'm using it on, like, my neck, my traps, my arms, my legs.

[Acast Announcer]

I love your fascia blaster.

[Garrett Muntz]

It is crazy. And it's like. I think one of the things that they say it's good for is cellulite, which I can't confirm if that's true or not, because I haven't been using it for that purpose. But it's just. It just.

[Acast Announcer]

I can confirm. There is no physical thing that will get rid of cellulite, guys. You may look like you have less cellulite afterwards because you have moved along lymph and water and you have moved the fluids around so that the tightening bands of the cellulite are not looking as tight, so things look plumper and softer, and you won't see the dimples. However, without surgery to snap those little bands with heat, you can't get rid of liposuction. I'm sorry. There's no topical lotion does it. And there's no product that does it. I feel very comfortable saying that.

[Garrett Muntz]

There we go.

[Acast Announcer]

I will say placebo effect is a lot. And people do work on cellulite and they think they see a little bit and that if that makes you feel good, then I'm all. But I do not like these companies that say, reduces the appearance of cellulite because it does it for five minutes.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah, I get that.

[Acast Announcer]

So what are you gonna do? Go to the beach and quickly put it on before. Or you have a hot date with someone and you're about to get undressed, and you're like, oh, I got a quick fascia blast and then put on my lotion, and then I'm gonna look good for 20 minutes, and then we gotta turn off the lights afterwards. But if that makes you feel good, do it. I just don't like people wasting money on that. However, I hear you the benefit of the feel good standpoint and from a.

[Garrett Muntz]

Lymphatic drainage standpoint, this works. It totally. My swelling is basically non existent because I've been using this every night before bed and it's so. I mean, as someone who has constantly crazy tight muscles at some place on his body, I use this and it's one of the best things I've ever used for that purpose. Just to release tension.

[Acast Announcer]

You didn't have to buy a big therabody that's pounding away on you. My husband has a therabody. When we turn that thing on, I like am embarrassed what the neighbors hear. It's a jackhammer. It's so loud.

[Garrett Muntz]

Listen, I have all that stuff. I have the jet boots. I have every percussive gun you could think of. I have the travel.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah, it's the one we have the percussive gun from.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah, I have it all. And this is still one of the things I've ever used. $23.

[Acast Announcer]

Nice.

[Garrett Muntz]

Or something around that razor wand. I'm telling you, it's like good raza wand. The fascia blast.

[Acast Announcer]

Well, while you're fascia blasting, you can light my razo on if you want. So one of my favorite candles of all time is the diptyque baize.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yes, of course.

[Acast Announcer]

The best places in New York, the best spas, burn it. I've had it maybe a couple times. It's $76, so I don't buy it that often. But it's so good. I've got a dupe, guys. I've got a dupe. Get it while it's hot. Because it was a holiday candle, which means I think it's limited edition, which means it might sell out soon. But as of now it is still available on the website. Fleur, the perfume brand P H L U R has great candles, which I don't think I knew about until I saw the holiday ones. And I got one of the holiday ones and I was like, wait, the scent throws amazing. The vessel is like a white ceramic, very simple. And so this particular candle, Fleur candle in current crush. It looks red and I thought it was going to be very holiday smelling. It smells like diptyque baise. It's currants. So like you're like, oh, currants. They're so juicy and jammy. They're not. They're like kind of a fresh, juicy scent. It's not berry, doesn't read raspberry or any of that it's like a very green, like rhubarb y kind of smell, if that makes sense.

[Garrett Muntz]

Uh huh. Yeah. Like an herbal sweetness.

[Acast Announcer]

Like an herbal, juicy, fruity smell. And I would say it's a little bit more intense and juicy than the Bayes candle. But I think people might like that. Cause people that like Tom Ford, lost cherry and that. That whole juicy vibe, that's big right now you're going towards there. But very much so. If you burned this and didn't look at it, you might also think it's a diptyque beige.

[Garrett Muntz]

That's awesome.

[Acast Announcer]

Best part is $30 less. It's only $45 and it lasts as long. Scent throw is good. It might even last longer. Cause diptyque burns slow. It's a good burn. So does this.

[Garrett Muntz]

It does burn slow, but they're like kind of small compared to some other candles.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah, no, this I have had. Here it is, actually. Here it is right here. What are we down to? We're down to like she's been burning like for two weeks straight and there's still like a good inch left in there.

[Garrett Muntz]

I love that simple vessel too.

[Acast Announcer]

Yeah, the vessel's good, right? I got it dirty. Cause I'm gross, but. Carrot crush.

[Garrett Muntz]

Do you reuse your, like your vessels a lot?

[Acast Announcer]

Oh, my God. I'm so glad you asked. They're all over the place. Like, look. See how I have. I don't know. I don't know if you can see. Sorry, guys. Just bear with us. This is for me, Garrett, not for you. I have all those succulent plants up there.

[Garrett Muntz]

Cute.

[Acast Announcer]

I would say half of those are old candle vessels.

[Garrett Muntz]

That's awesome.

[Acast Announcer]

And then. Oh. I have it down to a science. I use the hot tea kettle water to like melt out the remaining. Let goo gone, sit in the middle. And then I pry off whatever the wick was. I just plant succulents in them and they're all over my house. And Fleur makes a good one. Some of the other just pretty much any brand. If it's. I don't. The glass ones I use for brushes. Wait, you think I was kidding? Practice what I preach. That's a candle. I think this was a flamingo estate.

[Garrett Muntz]

Pretty.

[Acast Announcer]

You see it, right?

[Nikayla Matthews Akome]

I love that.

[Garrett Muntz]

Yeah, that.

[Acast Announcer]

That was a candle. I don't think I've ever thrown away a candle vessel. They're just quite usable.

[Garrett Muntz]

A lot of them are so beautiful. I feel guilty sometimes. I could be better about reusing my vessels.

[Acast Announcer]

It's a little bit of a headache. Headache. To clean it out. I don't know. I'm your friend. Save them in a bag and just give them to me. I'll clean them all out for you. Maybe I'll plant, like some seedlings from my plants and them. They're good to give as gifts because I'll do a cutting from my plants. People love getting a cutting from me because then it feels like you have a piece of the person. Totally. I always bring that as like a little gift.

[Garrett Muntz]

That's.

[Acast Announcer]

And then you don't have to buy a vessel for it. There's no drainage on them, which is the thing about plants. It's not great, but you could throw some stones in the bottom and that helps with drainage. Wow. I just turned it into a home EC podcast.

[Garrett Muntz]

We're like a whole, like, we're like going into, like, trad wife, like home.

[Acast Announcer]

We are fat. Mascara is a lifestyle. We're not just about beauty culture. We're a lifestyle, aren't we?

[Garrett Muntz]

We're an Omni media lifestyle brand.

[Acast Announcer]

Exactly. Hear that, kids? All right, everybody. MJ would tell you to be good. If you can't be good, be careful. But Garrett and I say get your beauty sleep.

[Garrett Muntz]

Get your beauty sleep.

[Acast Announcer]

Get your beauty sleep. Sleep.

[Jen Sullivan]

We hope you enjoyed the show.

[Acast Announcer]

It's your reviews and feedback that help us make the podcast even better. Head over to itunes to rate and review us or email your thoughts to infoatmascara.com we also want to answer your.

[Jen Sullivan]

Beauty questions and hear what products you love to share, a raise, a wand product review, or to ask a beauty question. Email us at infoatmascara.

[Acast Announcer]

If you send it as a voice memo file, we can even share your voice on the podcast. You can also do that by leaving us a voice message. Our phone number in the United States is 646-4818182.

[Jen Sullivan]

Thanks so much for listening.

[Acast Announcer]

Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Nikayla Matthews Akome]

If you've ever dreamed of quitting your job to take your side hustle full time time. Listen up. This is Nikayla Matthews Akome, host of side Hustle Pro, a podcast that helps you build and grow from passion project to profitable business. Every week you'll hear from guests just like you who wanted to start a business on the side.

[Acast Announcer]

If you can't run a side hustle, you can't run a business.

[Nikayla Matthews Akome]

They share real tips. And so I started connecting with all.

[Acast Announcer]

These people on LinkedIn and I saw Target supplier diversity was having office hours.

[Nikayla Matthews Akome]

Real advice Procrastination is the easiest, easiest form of resistance and the actual strategies they use to turn their Side Hustle into their main hustle. Getting back in touch with your tangible cash and sitting down and learning to give your money a job like it changes something. Check out Side Hustle Pro every week on your favorite podcast app and YouTube.

[Acast Announcer]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.