Ep. 568: Makeup-Skincare Hybrids, Aromatherapy At Work & The Week’s Beauty News

Summary

Fat Mascara Episode 568 Summary: Makeup-Skincare Hybrids, Aromatherapy At Work & The Week’s Beauty News

Release Date: March 5, 2025

In Episode 568 of Fat Mascara, hosts Jennifer Sullivan and Julie Wilson delve into the evolving landscape of beauty, focusing on the rise of makeup-skincare hybrids, the integration of aromatherapy into the workplace, and a roundup of the week's most significant beauty news. The episode is structured into clear segments, each highlighting key discussions and insights from the hosts.

---

1. Makeup-Skincare Hybrids: The Next Evolution in Beauty

Jennifer and Julie explore the burgeoning trend of makeup products infused with skincare benefits, often dubbed as "Makeup Skincare 2.0." This segment examines how brands are innovating to offer products that not only enhance appearance but also provide lasting skin health benefits.

Notable Quotes:

• Julie Wilson [21:55]: "For makeup, though, I never think I've written about this too, that they can get enough of a skincare ingredient into it that it's more than marketing."
• Jennifer Sullivan [26:04]: "I do like a foundation that’s not too cakey, that SPF."

Key Points:

• Product Innovation: Examples include lip pencils with peptides and foundations with high SPF, bridging the gap between cosmetic application and skin protection.
• Consumer Acceptance: While some consumers are enthusiastic about added skincare benefits, others question the efficacy versus traditional skincare routines.
• Marketing vs. Efficacy: The hosts debate whether these hybrid products are genuine innovations or primarily marketing strategies to differentiate products in a saturated market.

2. Aromatherapy at Work: Enhancing Productivity and Well-being

The discussion shifts to the incorporation of aromatherapy in professional settings. Jennifer shares her interest in scented computer mice designed to release fragrances, prompting a broader conversation about the psychological and physiological impacts of scents in the workplace.

Notable Quotes:

• Jennifer Sullivan [32:02]: "That place is... it reminds me that, like, Jen, your worldview is not everyone's worldview."
• Julie Wilson [33:32]: "Vibes mean something."

Key Points:

• Fragrance Integration: Introduction of gadgets like scented mice aims to create a more personalized and pleasant work environment.
• Scientific Insights: Reference to a study published in Chemical Senses highlighting that while essential oils may not objectively increase alertness, they improve perceived productivity and mood.
• Personal Preferences: The hosts emphasize the importance of choosing scents that individuals find personally uplifting, acknowledging the subjective nature of fragrance responses.

3. The Week’s Beauty News: Celebrity Brands and Industry Trends

Jennifer and Julie review the top celebrity brands generating buzz in 2025, analyzing their impact on the beauty industry. They discuss the prominence of brands like Rare Beauty by Selena Gomez, Fenty Beauty by Rihanna, and others, considering both positive and negative public sentiments.

Notable Quotes:

• Julie Wilson [38:44]: "I guess it's called Savage. Fenty. The fashion."
• Jennifer Sullivan [41:03]: "I have one of her limited edition fragrances. Have you gotten any of her fragrances?"

Key Points:

• Top Celebrity Brands: Analysis of why certain celebrity-endorsed brands are trending, focusing on factors like media mentions, social media buzz, and consumer engagement.
• Public Perception: Examination of both the positive reception and controversies surrounding these brands, including instances of negative publicity.
• Industry Influence: Discussion on how celebrity brands shape beauty trends and consumer expectations, reinforcing the intersection between fame and product success.

4. Listener Interactions and Community Highlights

The episode features interactions with listeners, including a shout-out to Amrita from India, who praises the accessibility of Indian pharmacy beauty products. Jennifer and Julie discuss the potential for these products in the global market and encourage listeners to share their favorite brands.

Notable Quotes:

• Amrita [46:49]: "Indian pharmacy products are absolutely amazing. They're easy on the pocket and more often than not, these products are very easily available."
• Julie Wilson [51:06]: "If you're not desi and you just know about Indian beauty brands, where can we find like, I want more."

Key Points:

• Diverse Beauty Solutions: Highlighting the effectiveness and affordability of Indian pharmacy beauty products, which offer high-quality skincare solutions.
• Global Accessibility: Discussion on how these products can be accessed internationally through platforms like Stylevana and Desi Food.
• Community Engagement: Encouragement for listeners to contribute their favorite international beauty brands, fostering a more inclusive beauty community.

5. Science Corner: The Placebo Effect in Aromatherapy

In the Science Corner segment, the hosts explore the placebo effect related to aromatherapy, specifically how the belief in a scent's effectiveness can influence perceived alertness and productivity.

Notable Quotes:

• Julie Wilson [33:33]: "Vibes mean something."
• Jennifer Sullivan [33:35]: "A perceived quantification works just as much as, like, the data."

Key Points:

• Psychological Impact: Understanding that the belief in aromatherapy's benefits can lead to actual perceived improvements in mood and productivity.
• Research Findings: Reference to a study showing no significant objective increase in alertness, but a notable positive perception among users.
• Practical Applications: Encouraging the use of personally agreeable scents to harness the placebo effect for enhanced well-being.

6. Upcoming Projects and Community Feedback

Julie announces her role as a judge for the CEW Beauty Awards, emphasizing the importance of recognizing authentic, consumer-approved beauty products. The conversation also touches on listener calls and feedback, reinforcing the podcast's commitment to community engagement.

Notable Quotes:

• Julie Wilson [15:27]: "They're so nice. It tells me that, yeah, these awards aren't for nothing."
• Jennifer Sullivan [55:19]: "I have a 13-month-old that you know."

Key Points:

• CEW Beauty Awards: Highlighting the significance of these awards in validating genuinely effective beauty products based on votes from industry professionals.
• Listener Contributions: Acknowledging and responding to listener feedback, queries, and participation, fostering a strong podcast community.
• Future Content: Teasing upcoming discussions and encouraging continued listener interaction to shape future episodes.

---

Conclusion

Episode 568 of Fat Mascara offers an insightful exploration into the convergence of makeup and skincare, the nuanced role of aromatherapy in enhancing work environments, and a comprehensive review of the most talked-about celebrity beauty brands of the year. Through engaging dialogue, expert insights, and active listener participation, Jennifer Sullivan and Julie Wilson provide a rich narrative that caters to both beauty enthusiasts and industry professionals alike.

Transcript

[Julie Wilson]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

[Jen Sullivan]

I don't know if you knew this.

[Julie Wilson]

But anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities.

[Jen Sullivan]

So do like I did and have.

[Julie Wilson]

One of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] full from ADT comes Trusted Neighbor, the new standard in home.

[Jen Sullivan]

Access through the ADT app. Easily grant and automate event based or scheduled access for neighbors, friends and helpers. Notify trusted individuals of events like alarms.

[Julie Wilson]

Or packages and set access windows for.

[Jen Sullivan]

Planned guests or even the dog walker.

[Julie Wilson]

Without interrupting your day.

[Jen Sullivan]

Visit ADT.com when every second counts. Count on ADT requires ADT complete pro monitoring plan and compatible devices. Copyright 2025 ADT LLC. All rights reserved.

[Julie Wilson]

They say opposites attract. That's why the Sleep Number Smart Bed is the best bed for couples. You can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm but they want soft. Sleep Number does that. You want to sleep cooler while they like to feel warm. Sleep Number does that too. Why choose a Sleep Number Smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side and now save 40% on the new Sleep Number Special edition Smart bed limited time exclusively at a Sleep Number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details. Hello everyone. Welcome to Fat Mascara. I'm Jen Sullivan.

[Jen Sullivan]

And I'm Julie Wilson and we are.

[Julie Wilson]

Here to talk about beauty culture. This is a podcast about beauty culture. That is our trademarked tagline. It's not trademarked, but no it's not.

[Jen Sullivan]

You should trademark it everything.

[Julie Wilson]

I'll look into that. Anytime I get a lawyer involved in anything, I'm like, why did I do this?

[Jen Sullivan]

I know it's a lot.

[Julie Wilson]

How are you? It's been a minute.

[Jen Sullivan]

I am really good. Life is like while the world is burning around us. Like my personal life is actually thriving.

[Julie Wilson]

Well, I can see that from the streets of New York City and the stores of New York City, y'all. If you had been in New York City is I don't know if your posters are still up. Are they still up?

[Jen Sullivan]

They are still up. I think this is the last week that they are up.

[Julie Wilson]

Sh face is like, you're not just. Okay, let me just back up. You're in. I'm just gonna call them ads. And then you're gonna tell us all about this for in Beauty Project. Cause you're in in store advertisements. However, you know everyone. When an album drops and they paste the poster up on the wall in New York City, Julie's face got pasted on walls. Tell us everything.

[Jen Sullivan]

The wild postings, which they're called or wheat pastings are. It's insane. So in 60, literally six zero places around the city, which is like, crazy, I'll be like, driving your big old face Uber. And I'm like, oh, my God, that's me. And the Uber driver's like, huh? And I was like, I know I'm not giving, like the same right now, but it is me. My face is not looking as quite as beautiful right now, but that is me.

[Julie Wilson]

Okay, model, tell us how you ended up doing this.

[Jen Sullivan]

Okay. So I literally was just having a des guy breakfast with the founders, who I'd known about the brand and been a fan of the brand. But Aaron, their CMO was like, they're gonna be in town. Cause they don't live in New York. Would you wanna have breakfast? We had this lovely breakfast. And by the end of the breakfast, they were like, we're doing this campaign around the first anniversary of our hero product, Extreme Cream, and it's all about being fearless and ageless and like saying fuck it to ageism. And I was like, okay. I was like, that's. I'm all about that. I say my age with my chest. And they were like, yeah, so you should be a part of it. I literally thought it was gonna be like. And you know an Instagram post or like something like that. And it was this big, huge campaign. They had this amazing party at a, like, art gallery to celebrate it. And then I'm seeing my face all over the city. It's crazy.

[Julie Wilson]

So for this in Beauty Project campaign, when they took your photo, did you know at that point that it was gonna get blown up to like 4ft by 6ft posters?

[Jen Sullivan]

My face. It's like a close up of my face. I knew it was gonna be a close up of my face, which was really getting.

[Julie Wilson]

That's one thing.

[Jen Sullivan]

Right? But I thought they were like, oh, it's kind of like this campaign we did last year, which they did do the wheat postings, but I was like, okay. But like, I'm not as like, big as the people they used last year. Although the two other influencers or Professionals, other than me, Kellyanne and Caroline, they both have, like, over. They have hundreds of thousands of followers, and I have under a hundred thousand followers. So I was like, I don't know if they're gonna treat me like they treat them.

[Julie Wilson]

One Julie poster for every 72 of their posters.

[Jen Sullivan]

Exactly. Exact. Exactly. And so I was like, maybe it'll go up here. There. 60 places, sister. Like, it's crazy.

[Julie Wilson]

What was it like being on the other side of the camera? Like, you're usually the one directing photo shoots.

[Jen Sullivan]

I know it was really weird, but I let it, like, I let them do their thing and direct and, like, it was kind of exciting to not have to have that pressure of getting the right shot. I was just like, I'm just gonna smile how they want me to smile. I had a great glam squad. I mean, Navasha did you look like you.

[Julie Wilson]

You look gorgeous.

[Jen Sullivan]

Navasha did my hair, my twists. And Sabina Coll, makeup artist, made sure my skin was skinning because I didn't really even wear makeup. I mean, that's how good the product is. I was at first like, oh, they're for sure gonna be putting makeup on me. And then shooting it. They were like, we really don't want any makeup. We just wanna make sure your skin is glowy.

[Julie Wilson]

So, like, extreme creamed.

[Jen Sullivan]

Extreme creamed and no lashes, no eyeliner. It was nothing like that. So I was like, oh, my God, my face. My bare face is gonna be five foot tall. What is that gonna give? It was great.

[Julie Wilson]

I applaud you. I don't know if I could do it. It's not just the showing off. I don't mind my bare face. It's just. I don't know, I like, I get shy.

[Jen Sullivan]

No, I think it was cool because for us too, as storytellers, right, we spend our whole career telling other people's stories. We are constantly pushing other people's products. We are constantly telling every other people's narratives. And this was a moment where I really felt seen. It was like, we love what you do. We love your voice, what you do in this industry. And we want to celebrate you in this way. We want to put your face up there. We want to put your name, your handle is on the post. My handle's on the poster. Like, also my age, which is like 12 inches tall on it. But whatever.

[Julie Wilson]

I didn't even notice that. See, I didn't even. Yeah, that didn't even register.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah, but it was really nice. I think it's nice when we get to Step back and people get to say thank you for, like, everything that you do.

[Julie Wilson]

Yeah, you're right. I though chose this career path because I'm like, nope, want to be behind the scenes and tell other people's stories. But you're right. At some point, whenever I'm interviewing someone, by the way, and I want to talk about your Ziya cover profile, because actually, let's talk about that because. So you wrote a Seventeen magazine cover profile for Ziya, who is an activist, an influencer, all of the things. And I kept thinking I could picture you two, like, chilling and talking because it's your voice and the questions. Completely. But I was like, when, whenever I'm interviewing a celebrity, I'm always thinking to myself, how would I answer this? You're right. I'm always like, I, I ask the question and then I'm like, what would my answer be? Which is kind of back to what you were saying about you telling your own story.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah. And I think that makes us better storytellers. Right. We're anticipating or trying to put ourselves.

[Julie Wilson]

Like, is this a good question? Would she be able to. Exactly.

[Jen Sullivan]

A high level of, like, empathy. Right. I think we have like this high level of empathy in us of like, how am I presenting this question? How would I one receive it and also answer it? Like, there's, there's a level of care and respect I think that we have, which makes us good journalists.

[Julie Wilson]

Yeah. It shows in this profile. So congratulations on that. I also was like, this person could be your daughter. Am I wrong about the age numbers there?

[Jen Sullivan]

She is 17, so yes, she could.

[Julie Wilson]

But I felt like it felt very. You felt very protective the whole time. I don't know. Did it go well, that interview? Cause it really came across that you guys were like, having a moment.

[Jen Sullivan]

It was a good Kiki. It definitely didn't feel like mother daughter, but it did feel like big sister, little sister. Right.

[Julie Wilson]

Okay. There we go. Better. Thank you.

[Jen Sullivan]

I think that it was also interesting time to talk to her because it was literally a week after the election.

[Julie Wilson]

And now she's trans.

[Jen Sullivan]

So she's trans.

[Julie Wilson]

She's been feeling the things.

[Jen Sullivan]

If no one knows who Ziya is, she is a. A beautiful, trans 17 year old who is the daughter of Dwyane Wade, hall of Fame, you know, NBA player and stepdaughter to Gabrielle Union. Amazing actress on high. And it was wild to talk to her after Trump winning the election. I wrote the story, got the draft in before the holidays in December, and then life really turned on after he was inaugurated because we didn't know if he was gonna, like, keep with his promises of, like, taking down the trans community. So I had to rewrite, write the intro right before we put it out.

[Julie Wilson]

Well, all those executive orders came out.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah, all the executive orders that he was, like, really targeting this community that makes up less than 1% of the population. Like, it was wild. So I really wanted to inject that into the story to give people a real idea of what Ziya in this community are dealing with. It is a complete assault on their being.

[Julie Wilson]

I feel like when we talk about groups of people as a group, you forget to realize, like, you can be all on board with some political ideology. It makes sense to you or it doesn't make sense to until you start seeing the individual faces of people. And it's not just this, these executive orders, it's many that have affected people. But just hearing from someone who is affected, it makes it all the more personal. And then all the more, like, why are we all up in people's personal business?

[Jen Sullivan]

I mean, I hopped in some, like, at 17 TikTok beef this week with someone who, like, put up, like, a little rant about, why are they putting this little boy on the COVID of 17, all that. And I was like, are you.

[Julie Wilson]

Do you. Are you a commenter?

[Jen Sullivan]

You get in there usually I'm not. I don't know. This seemed personal because this was a black woman. She put up the COVID She was definitely attacking the fact that seventeen was highlighting Ziya and the fact that her parents. This is child abuse. Her frontal lobe isn't even developed yet. I will calmly gather you. Like, I'm not going to come in there and be like, f you. Da, da, da. I'm going to be like, oh, my gosh. Like, it must take so much energy to be a hater. This doesn't concern you. You don't have to read it.

[Julie Wilson]

Listen to the sarcasm dripping from your voice.

[Jen Sullivan]

As you say, I was like, it doesn't concern you. Why do you care? Don't engage with it. Don't read it. Don't tell other people to read it. Just leave these people alone. Live and let live. No one is criticizing you on how you raise your kids. If you believe that Dwyane Wade and Gabrielle Union are gonna burn in hell for this. Allow them to leave them alone. But I know for sure that this girl deserves celebration and praise and that her parents don't deserv to be attacked for how their daughter wants to live her life, period. Leave her alone. Leave her alone.

[Julie Wilson]

Thank you for speaking up. Jess and I got into this a little bit last week because we were talking about, when is anger useful? When you're talking. We were talking about animal testing. Some news that just came out that the FDA was requiring it for sunscreens. And we were talking about, well, the anti aging skincare at Sephora isn't really. I don't have anger about that, but Jess tends to get much more fired up than I do. And I kept trying to be like, oh, we gotta be rational, we gotta look at truth. And then as you're talking to. I'm just like, sometimes you have to show your emotion, otherwise people don't think you care.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Julie Wilson]

Which is like a lesson I'm learning here at age 46.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah. I also.

[Julie Wilson]

I've learned it with relationships too, with, like, friends and family. They think I'm like. I'm like, no, I'm just being calm and rational, which kind of pisses people off sometimes, which I didn't realize. I thought, how can that piss you off? I'm just being totally. But people want to see emotion.

[Jen Sullivan]

Exactly. One of the commenters or something was like, oh, you just don't know how media works. They're like, pushing this agenda on me because I hadn't told them. I hadn't said in the comments that I was the writer. Unless you, like, really?

[Julie Wilson]

Oh, someone said that to you?

[Jen Sullivan]

Yes. And so I was like, I actually know how media works. I'm a journalist. I actually wrote this story. I know exactly how this works. Like, don't come for me unless I send for you.

[Julie Wilson]

You know what I mean? The other thing is, like, a lot of people don't have stake in that game. Why are they commenting? And it's good coming from you because you were there and do know. Anyway, the story is great. And I was like, that's my friend. Because as I heard you asking questions of her, I could like, I was like, that's so Julie would totally ask that. She's like, no, tell me more about this group chat. I'm like, she's so nosy.

[Jen Sullivan]

I know, but it was. It was a really good Kiki. You know, Gabrielle Union is also, like, a beauty founder. So I've interviewed her in the past. She made me a woman crush Wednesday, like a year and a half ago on her profile. And that's when Ziya started following me. So we kind of have this, like, inter. Yeah, we have a little bit of history, but this was our first time really talking. But there's like, you know, my father played in the NFL. So we have. He was not a Hall of Famer like her father. But there are ways in which we intersected in looking at each other as black women in this world. Having a little bit of similar, you know, growing up, things with, like, professional athletes being our fathers, binge watching shows. Like, I love the fact that we connected on so many levels.

[Julie Wilson]

She's on the COVID of 17. Your mom won an internship day at 17 when she was 17?

[Jen Sullivan]

Yes. I put that picture up, which I couldn't believe it. I was so excited to share. I'd been like kind of holding it in my back pocket. I didn't even tell Willa, our editor in chief, that that was something my mom had done. I was like, let me put this story out into the world and then I'm going to drop the fact that my mom.

[Julie Wilson]

But your mom's not a journalist, is she?

[Jen Sullivan]

She's not. It was just something that she had won in high school and. But she was like serendipitous that like she visited 17 and I have a picture of her at Glamour and I posted it when Glamour decided to fold their print. I posted it then being like, oh, my gosh. This is also a full circle moment. Like, rip, Glamour, print. But like, my mom also was a one day intern at Glamour. It was really. It's cool. But like, she was like, I almost willed this manifested you being like a journalist in this space.

[Julie Wilson]

Yeah. She says that to you about your career?

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Julie Wilson]

Did she manifest her face all over New York City?

[Jen Sullivan]

She didn't, but.

[Julie Wilson]

But I have genes.

[Jen Sullivan]

Thanks to her. I have good genes.

[Julie Wilson]

But she gave you that. Yes, exactly. 50% of that face we can give her credit for. So.

[Jen Sullivan]

Right.

[Julie Wilson]

Oh, my gosh. I love all this. You've been busy, woman. I have been busy as well. But literally all the projects and things I've been working on are NDA'd. As everybody knows, sometimes we have an.

[Jen Sullivan]

NDA, we sign NDAs for a living. It's crazy.

[Julie Wilson]

We'll go offline and I won't break the NDA, but I'll give you more information. But one thing I did do that I wanted to call up before we get into the news today. I'm a judge again this year. Have you ever done this for the CEW Beauty Awards?

[Jen Sullivan]

I haven't. You are fancier than I. Oh, okay. And I love it. Okay. I live for this.

[Julie Wilson]

Well, so they're every year. And that's executives in Media Beauty vote on the entries in this and companies can enter. And we did it last year and I was like so pleasantly surprised that the cream that rose to the top. Am I using that idiom correctly? Aphorism, whatever it is. Were the products that you and I talk about all the time. Like, it works, really. It's the stuff that, like both either was undersung by consumers or consumers liked it. But people who know makeup artists vote on this. Facialists vote on this. People like me that try products for a living. So anyway, if you're listening and you have a beauty brand and you have a little cash to enter because it does cost to enter, but not. That's not how you win. You don't win by paying. That's just to deal with all the data that we all have to go through. I volunteer my services, by the way, I do not get paid for this. I will put the link in the show notes so you could enter your products. It's so cool too seeing like, okay, here's everything that came out in the last year. And just every now and then there's a couple things I haven't tried or seen, but then I'll do my homework to figure it out. So.

[Jen Sullivan]

But I love that you spotted some products that we always talk about. It's like very nice validation.

[Julie Wilson]

It tells me that, yeah, that these awards aren't for nothing. I feel like everybody has a beauty award now, but the seals do show consumers that this is the good stuff. And now that I know how some of the different nominating committees work, like, I've worked at magazines where it's just like I picked whatever I want. This one's like, there's a bunch of us and there's like a whole. It took a while to vote, I'm just going to say. So really important stuff goes into it. So I'll put that link if you have a product you want to enter. All right, let's go. We did Julie's news. Let's go do all the news.

[Jen Sullivan]

Woohoo.

[Julie Wilson]

Imagine this. It's time to get dressed. You go into your bra drawer and every bra in there is the good bra. You know what I'm talking about with honeylove, that's always the case. I'm wearing my honeylove crossover bra right now. It's my comfiest bra, but I wear it everywhere. Recording in the studio, going to work, appointments, going out. Because it looks cute too. Honeylove has completely transformed the bra game. Honeylove bras give all the support of traditional bras without using any underwire. And if you're tired of bras that cause bulging in the back. Honeylove's bras are designed with back smoothing fabric to prevent bra bulge. There's the crossover bra that I'm wearing. It's gentle and supportive. And then there's also the V neck bra with molded cups that lift and separate. And Honeylove isn't just about bras. They've got shapewear, tanks, leggings. They're all comfortable and supportive. Honeylove's best selling Super Power Short is a must have. It has targeted compression technology that distinguishes between areas where you want more support and areas where you need less compression. I love it all. Treat yourself to the most comfortable bra on earth and save 20% off site [e-mail] mascara. Use our exclusive link to get 20% off. That's honeylove.com mascara. After you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them fat mascara sent you Treat yourself to Honey Love because you deserve it. Have you noticed when there are low temperatures and low humidity, your skin can have a tough time retaining moisture even if you're keeping up your skincare routine. Routine I think I've said this before, but I have finally figured out the way to keep my skin hydrated and looking good in this kind of weather. I mean it is 19 degrees in New York right now. I'm taking Rituals Hyacra Skin Supplement, a clinically proven way to support skin hydration with science back benefits like reducing wrinkles and improving skin smoothness. Listen, I'm not going to take any supplement unless I can see the receipts and Ritual has them. In a clinical study, Ritual Hyacinth led to a 2.9 times increase in skin smoothness within 90 days as compared to placebo and subjects reported an improvement in skin elasticity, glow and radiance in 90 days. The best part is you don't have to figure out when to put another product on your face. This is a supplement you swallow. It's just one capsule a day and you can take it whenever you want. So much easier than some of these other beauty supplements out there which have like six horse sized pills a day. No? I also like that Ritual works with world class certification bodies to validate their products. The company is a certified B core with supplements that are vegan, gluten free and made traceable. On top of that, Ritual uses scientific tools to select lower carbon packaging and prioritize sustainably sourced ingredients. Start Hyacinth to support your glow without compromising on clean science. Hyac from Ritual is a clinically proven skin supplement you can actually trust. Get 25 off your first month for a limited time at ritual.com mascara. That's ritual.com mascara for 25 off your first month. We go through a lot of sunscreen here in the fat mascara families, don't we, Jazz? We go through a ton. One of our favorites is of course Blue Lizard. Pediatrician trusted dermatologist tested also they have these little smart caps that turn blue in UV light. How good is that? Then you know, the sun is out. It is time to get protected. Plus they have a whole sensitive family of products that's personally my favorite. Helps keep my sensitive skin safe from the sun's harmful rays. All the formulas are free from potentially irritating parabensalates fragrances. I just love them. Which one do you use? I love them for my child. And you know why? Because I love a spray easy to get her but they dry clear, none of that nasty white pasty stuff. It dries nice and clear. And also I know that this should be obvious, guys, they're free from potentially irritating fragrances, parabens and elites. Go to bluelizardsunscreen.com to find out more information and find out which sunscreens are right for your family and which where you can buy in store or visit the Blue Lizard Australian sunscreen store on Amazon. Be fearless in the sun. Okay, let's get into it. Julie, I want to talk about, I want to talk about, and I know you want to talk about the latest makeup skincare hybrids. I feel like this is Makeup Skincare 2.0. She said, Ooh. Like, ooh. Is that because this is not a new news trend? Talk to me.

[Jen Sullivan]

It honestly isn't new. But you have to give people grace for discovering things and being like, oh, wow, look at this. And you're like, it's been around, but I'm here for your excitement.

[Julie Wilson]

I saw the term. I forget where I saw this, but the. You know how we all heard about the skinification of hair now I saw the makeup ification of skin make a fication.

[Jen Sullivan]

Wow.

[Julie Wilson]

So for those who don't know what we're talking about, there's just been a lot of launches early in 2025 of products that are makeup and skincare hybrids. And a lot of buzz about like, what a new revolutionary product. This is the big one. I feel like is Rhodes peptide lip shape that I was just like, okay, is that skincare? Because it's a lip pencil and it has peptides.

[Jen Sullivan]

Lip is still skin. I actually have one maid beauty has their whole lip ritual situation, and they have a. Their signature red lip pigment. Also has all of, like, the skinification stuff in it, like the. The peptides and the. In the technology. So it's like, I love it. She has a scrub and a serum and, like, a balm. But she also has a lip color, her signature red that has all of the yummy ingredients in it too, which, honestly, like, I would wear it without that stuff. But it does make me feel good when I have it on.

[Julie Wilson]

Like, okay, so you. So this is what I wanted to talk about. These products, my thinking has always been, like, my makeup is one thing for skincare, I want it loaded with whatever ingredient I'm after, for whatever result I'm after after. Just turned into a Midwest mom for that one. For makeup, though, I never think I've written about this too, that they can get enough of a skincare ingredient into it that it's more than marketing. Do you know what I mean? Like, okay, sure. You're faced.

[Jen Sullivan]

I agree. Okay, but because, like, even with, like, blush and stuff, it's like, do I really, like, want the blush going into my pores that have the hyaluronic acid example?

[Julie Wilson]

So let me give you two examples. One product, one is still embargoed slightly, but Glow recipes, Watermelon Glow Niacinamide, Dewy Flush. So it's like a liquid blush serum in droplet form, but with, I believe, clinical levels of niacinamide, which is brightening.

[Jen Sullivan]

Right.

[Julie Wilson]

Think about. Go ahead. What would you use?

[Jen Sullivan]

No, I like, my mind just goes to. Okay, cool, cool, cool. But, like, is the niacinamide penetrating? And then the color just stays on top. Is that everything penetrating? And how much of it do I need? How much of this blush am I going to be walking around looking like a clown if I really want to? Like it? Science.

[Julie Wilson]

Yeah. The minerals in it, like the oxides and things that give it the color and the pigments sit on the skin. Right. Of course, some is getting absorbed into the epidermis, not necessarily the dermis. The niacinamide is one of those ingredients that it doesn't have to go deep, deep to do it. Its thing. It's there in the epidermis as well. You're already putting this on your skin. It's not like it's pulling in, like pink pigment number 42 along with it. You know what I mean?

[Jen Sullivan]

Lord.

[Julie Wilson]

However, what I think about with this blush, and there's a couple we'll talk about, but, like, with the blush Specifically, I was like, okay. Niacinamide is known for brightening, helping with hyperpigmentation. I was like, what if I put this blush on, you know, the little circles on my cheek every day a month from now, because it's at clinical levels, I wash my face, I look at my face.

[Jen Sullivan]

Oh. And then only that part of your face is like, that's my. That just means you need to be using niacinamide on the rest of your face with your just regular skin care.

[Julie Wilson]

So that goes back to my original thing, which is like, put your niacinamide in your serum and wear whatever blush you want for sure.

[Jen Sullivan]

Is it a marketing gimmick? Is it just to be like, we can't put out another just regular blush. We got to give it something else to get people excited.

[Julie Wilson]

I don't know from people I know that like these products, it's like, I don't want to have to put in eight things on my face. And maybe I wasn't going to use the niacinamide, so might as well just get a little bit of a. So if I was going to buy this blush or this blush, they both work great. I like the color on both. Might as well pick the one that is going to be good for my skin.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah. I mean, look, the only thing that gets me like that is a foundation or a skin tint with an SPF like that to me makes sense because I'm like, I don't want to have to like put on my SPF and then put on a foundation over it. It's just making my face feel heavy. So I do like a foundation that. A good hard working foundation that's not too cakey, that spf.

[Julie Wilson]

I agree with you. That's where it makes sense. A new one of those is Versed, the skincare line. It's like big and target, everything. So they just came out with a whole makeup line. But like the hero product, which makes sense to me, I guess, is the skin tint because it has SPF 40. So, okay, that's technically skincare. Hyaluronic acid, some kakadu plum, that's like antioxidant. So it's like you're putting it all over your face anyway. Why not have it be your skincare? Right, Right.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yes. I'm wearing tonal, which is really great, amazing foundation, founded by a black woman who obviously is being very thoughtful around making sure that there's great skin care for people of color, but also has SPF 50, which I love, and all of these fruit Accents.

[Julie Wilson]

Is it a full foundation? Is it sheer? Like, what's the story?

[Jen Sullivan]

It's a full foundation, so it's buildable. I would say it's medium. And then you build it up. You can build it up, but it's not. It's not a skin tint by any means. It's definitely a foundation.

[Julie Wilson]

Yeah. I think this trend makes the most sense for those. I get a little bit of an eye roll for, like, a lip pencil with an extra it or an eyeshadow. I remember a woman I worked with on a consulting project. She was just, like, teasing. I think it was super. I can't remember someone did an eyeshadow with spf, which I thought was genius, because SPF stings on your eyelids. You know, you need sunscreen around your eyes. But then it was like, who wants to pick the same color eyeshadow and put it on every day just to get their sunscreen? Like, just make us an eye sunscreen.

[Jen Sullivan]

Right. Are there any, like, great eye creams with SPF in them?

[Julie Wilson]

It's hard, actually. I've tried to fill that credit a bunch of times in stories, and there are not many, because I think to get to SPF 30 and safe around the eyes and then the texture. Right. It's a hard. All right, let's put that out into the world. For these companies that are.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yes.

[Julie Wilson]

Makeupificationing their skin, can we just get our sunscreen and eye cream in one thing first before we worry about putting color in there?

[Jen Sullivan]

Although Naked Sundays, who we both just met with, they said that they're new, like bronzing or like something drops or whatever, that you can use those on the eyes.

[Julie Wilson]

Yes. Naked Sundays. I know they're expanding their sunscreen mostly, but actually, they've always had color because they had lip glosses with spf, it actually, you know what?

[Jen Sullivan]

What?

[Julie Wilson]

For this trend, I do think sunscreen is probably the best one. If you consider sunscreen, skin care, sunification, my makeup, or makeupification, my son. What am I trying?

[Jen Sullivan]

That is wild. I love that. That was like a tongue twister and like a mind twister.

[Julie Wilson]

I'm curious if people use them. Like, call us and tell us if there's products you think do as well at. The skincare thing they're supposed to be doing as they do it, the makeup thing they're supposed to be doing. Because if they don't, why are we here?

[Jen Sullivan]

Again, I think it's marketing just to be able to say that you're doing something different than the normal. But we'll see. I'M curious to hear what people have to say about this.

[Julie Wilson]

Yeah. With this whole new batch coming out. Okay, moving on. I got a giggle from this one. So a while back, Anna Sui and this company came out with a laptop that was scented. Did you and I talk about this or did I talk about this with.

[Jen Sullivan]

We didn't.

[Julie Wilson]

I think it was with Jess because she loves Anna Sui. And you know how the fan on the computer sort of whirls when it gets too warm? Well, they were like, well, it's already warm. We already have this fan going. Let's put these little pods in. You can change out the pods with these Anna Sweet fragrances just for your computer. And I loved it. But a bunch of listeners were like, are you kidding me now? Like, what? So Right. You think that's a lot. The company just came out with this one, though. Okay, let me just explain it to you. This is called the fragrance Mouse. It is a stylish and ergonomic mouse that's available in distinctive iridescent white or rose clay finish. So inside the back of the mouse, there's an internal bottom compartment that's refillable. I looked at it. It's like, almost like a little pod, but you can pick whatever you want to put in there. And then it has vents. So as you're using your mouse and it's a normal looking, like, wireless mouse, you're getting a shot of whatever fragrance as it moves around. Maybe your hand warms it up. Julie's face is just, you know, the emoji where the eyes and the lips are the same horizontal line.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yes.

[Julie Wilson]

This is what your face looks like.

[Jen Sullivan]

My. My gut reaction was, who the hell uses a mouse? And then you picked up a mouse just now and I was like, wow. I. My hand.

[Julie Wilson]

You can use a mouse.

[Jen Sullivan]

My hand has not touched a mouse in years.

[Julie Wilson]

I don't know something about me. I travel with my mouse. Even if I'm going somewhere with a laptop, I can do all the trackpad, two finger slide, be doopy doop. I just find I'm such a faster, more productive worker if I have separate mouse.

[Jen Sullivan]

No knock to you. I live for this. I love that you understand yourself and your efficiency. I'm just saying that I personally have not touched a mouse in years. It might be a decade. I don't know when I actually have touched a mouse.

[Julie Wilson]

Oh, my gosh. This is to remind me that, like, Jen, your worldview is not everyone's worldview. This is to remind you, Julie, that you're.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yes, Jen, If. If I were to have a mouse.

[Julie Wilson]

In my world, would it be scented?

[Jen Sullivan]

I don't think I own hundreds. There are 200 perfumes in my home. I live in 950 square feet, and I have 200 fragrances.

[Julie Wilson]

You do the best, everyone. I.

[Jen Sullivan]

Exactly. I love a scent. I love a fragrance. I do think that it would be something I might have and put, like, aromatherapy in it. I don't need it to be smelling like, okay, freaking flower bomb. I need it to smell like something to calm me down as I'm working through my deadlines and all the stress.

[Julie Wilson]

Because you're trying to cut and paste with the little trackpad, which is really hard. And if you had a mouse now.

[Jen Sullivan]

You got me feeling like my life could be way more efficient and less stressful if I had a mouse. And maybe this mouse in particular surprises.

[Julie Wilson]

Me for someone who works with text and layouts, because, you know, I'm often selecting large groups of. Anyway, all right, I'm getting beside the point because something you said.

[Jen Sullivan]

I'm on my tracker. I'm on the trackpad, yo.

[Julie Wilson]

All right, Something you said brings us to science corners. So let's go to science corner. Okay. I had the same thought as you about the fragrance mouse. I was like, if we're doing this, let's get a little aromatherapy moment. So I was like, what oil would I put in there? Let me go check the latest research. So in a study published in the journal Chemical Senses, they looked into three different types of oils and how they might affect alert, because alertness would be nice. You just had lunch. You're working on that story. Okay. So they tested peppermint, jasmine, and Ylang ylang essential oils. Okay. And surprisingly to me, and I haven't seen this research before, and it made me sad, there was no significant effect of any of them on the alertness when it was objectively measured by reaction time when the scientists were doing the measurements. However, on the positive side, when the subjects were asked about how alert they felt, whether they had the control or the sense, they did feel that they were more alert. They did feel more productive. So even if they weren't technically moving the mouse or the trackpad as quickly or being as alert, they had the vibe that they were because that placebo is true.

[Jen Sullivan]

Vibes mean something, Jen.

[Julie Wilson]

Vibes mean something.

[Jen Sullivan]

A perceived quantification works just as much as, like, the data. I think sometimes we're all in our head. So if, like, I'm feeling like it works and the vibes are on. Are right. Let's go.

[Julie Wilson]

I just read a book about the placebo effect because I've always, like, rolled my eyes and been like, ah, you're just a. You know, it's whatever, it's all in your head. So it doesn't really mean anything. But what scientists find is like, yes, it's in your head, but it also affects your physiological being. So if you take a sugar pill, but you think it's like lowering cortisol, your cortisol does, like, the brain is super duper powerful matter, amazingly. So in that case, essential oils really, really do do something. But the fun part of that for me is you don't have to, like, pick one that you don't love. So a lot of people are like, I don't really like lavender. I want to be relaxed, but I don't really like lavender. It doesn't matter. If you enjoy the scent and you think that it's making you feel a certain way, then it is, which is kind of weird. It's crazy to think about.

[Jen Sullivan]

And we all have, like, different chemistry. I remember when people, like when I first started drinking coffee, which I actually don't drink coffee on a.

[Julie Wilson]

Why'd you put air quotes on coffee?

[Jen Sullivan]

I just, I don't know. You know, I grew up in a Mormon household, so we did not have coffee and stuff. So, like, I just did not ever drink coffee until I had my first child. And it would always make me sleepy. Like, for some people, it revs them up and stuff. And like, for me, it would just make me want to take a nap. Yeah, it was weird. It's just your own body chemistry is. It's just different. Like you said, lavender is going to make some people be like, yuck, I don't like this. And some people, it's going to be like, this calms me down.

[Julie Wilson]

Well, for me, lavender, I love the smell, but I don't find it necessarily calming. I actually think it can be energizing sometimes. So I'm like, I just.

[Jen Sullivan]

It's supposed to be calming.

[Julie Wilson]

I know. I spray it on my sheets, though. But I don't spray it at night. I spray it in the morning when I make my bed because I'm like, oh, fresh room starting the day. Lavender. I might put lavender in my asus scented mouse. I don't know. I'm not gonna put ylang ylang. I've never loved ylang ylang.

[Jen Sullivan]

Me either.

[Julie Wilson]

It's a little heady for me.

[Jen Sullivan]

Put some coffee in there.

[Julie Wilson]

I could see why it made you sleepy because of the warm beverage Aspect the roasty, toasty, comforting smells. Oh, my God. I don't know. Fresh bag of coffee when you open it up and it's just like in your face.

[Jen Sullivan]

I do love the smell of coffee.

[Julie Wilson]

Yeah, I don't want to smell like that in perfume per se, but maybe roasting around on my little mousepad, it might be okay. Anyway, if you're into this idea, get yourself an aces mouse. Fill it with whatever you damn please. Okay, last thing here. I don't know why this has become a thing that I love doing with you, but I love giving you a quiz. We did this with hair oils.

[Jen Sullivan]

We did.

[Julie Wilson]

And you did really well. So I want to see if you're up for it again.

[Jen Sullivan]

I'm always up for it. Hit me, sis.

[Julie Wilson]

So, a new analysis. It's an influencer marketing company or tool called Heapsy. So what they did is they analyzed the buzz around celebrity brands, like, who is getting the most buzz in 2025. They did their analysis based on media mentions, hashtags, followers, Google search data. So I have the list of the top 10 celebrity brands getting buzz in 2025, and I want to see how you do naming some of them. However, I'm going to be nice. I have hints for you. Do you want two hints? I mean, she's already counting.

[Jen Sullivan]

I know, like, the top two. I have to.

[Julie Wilson]

All right, so. But here's the thing. It is all categories. So not just beauty. So I used to be a fashion editor. So this should give you an up here. Three of them are beauty, five are fashion, one is entertainment, and one is hospitality. So this opens up the group of celebrities we're talking about. Right. But I feel like you're into pop culture. You might know my other. And this is going to probably give away one. My other thing is it's not all positive buzz. Think about that. When people talk about celebrity celebrities, they're not always saying good things. Okay, can you name, Julie Wilson, any of the top 10 celebrity brands in America getting buzz in 2025?

[Jen Sullivan]

I mean, Hailey Bieber for sure. Road. I mean, Selena Gomez, rare.

[Julie Wilson]

Okay, you got one. Hailey Bieber. No, but Selena Gomez is number six on this list. Six for rare beauty. And I think that's because you and I are so enmeshed in the beauty world that we consider anything happening in beauty to be like the culture. Cause it's our culture. Right, Right. But think about, like, so now, anyway, you got one.

[Jen Sullivan]

I mean, skims.

[Julie Wilson]

Yes, skims is on there.

[Jen Sullivan]

Number American. I don't know. Her sister.

[Julie Wilson]

No. Are Those Kardashians still popping. Five for Kim Kardashian skins.

[Jen Sullivan]

Rihanna.

[Julie Wilson]

Three and four for Rihanna. Both. Fenty beauty number three.

[Jen Sullivan]

Fenty hair.

[Julie Wilson]

No, Savage.

[Jen Sullivan]

Oh, savage. Right.

[Julie Wilson]

I guess it's called Savage. Fenty. The fashion.

[Jen Sullivan]

The lingerie. Lingerie.

[Julie Wilson]

The lingerie for number four.

[Jen Sullivan]

Underwear and lingerie.

[Julie Wilson]

Yes. Three, four, five, and six. You're doing great. Anyone else you can think of?

[Jen Sullivan]

Oh, my God. Now I'm like, blanking on all of, like, the celebrity face.

[Julie Wilson]

You only missed one beauty and you were on the right track with the ks.

[Jen Sullivan]

The KS mean the Kardashians. Like Kylie.

[Julie Wilson]

You got it. Kylie cosmetics, which surprised me. That's still relevant. And I don't know if that's Cause people are talking about.

[Jen Sullivan]

And now it's gone down just for.

[Julie Wilson]

Buzz of, like, media mentions and hashtags and maybe they own a bunch of hashtags. She is number two. So you now got all the beauty. The three beauty ones for Kylie. And how scientific is this? You saw what the methodology was like. You're just looking at hashtags.

[Jen Sullivan]

Kylie fashion brands.

[Julie Wilson]

Number one. Number one of everything. And no, easy.

[Jen Sullivan]

Sorry.

[Julie Wilson]

Because.

[Jen Sullivan]

Because his name that's selling T shirts with swastikas on it. I'm sorry.

[Julie Wilson]

I think it's negative. That's why I gave you this hint. Didn't I? Didn't I give you the butt?

[Jen Sullivan]

You did. But, like, I just don't even understand.

[Julie Wilson]

All right, we're not talking about him. Moving on.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Julie Wilson]

He doesn't deserve it. Okay, this one, though, is not going to surprise you. And it is an entertainment. Dolly Parton and Dollywood right behind Selena Gomez.

[Jen Sullivan]

Seriously?

[Julie Wilson]

Yeah. Does that make you happy?

[Jen Sullivan]

I put her. I love Dolly.

[Julie Wilson]

I know. That's why I thought you were.

[Jen Sullivan]

I put her lipstick on the Today show. I did a Today show segment, put her lipstick on it, and I have one of her limited edition fragrances. Have you gotten any of her fragrances?

[Julie Wilson]

Yes. And I've been, like, begging. I want her to come on the show so bad.

[Jen Sullivan]

They're so good. Come on, Dolly. Come on, mascara icon.

[Julie Wilson]

She's not even on here for her fairly new beauty entree with scent beauty, which is, I guess, two or three years. That's gorgeous. With the butterfly. She owned butterflies before.

[Jen Sullivan]

Anyway, this weighs at least three pounds. It is beautiful.

[Julie Wilson]

Oh, it's in a dropper.

[Jen Sullivan]

It's not a dropper. It's just on the wand.

[Julie Wilson]

Yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

Oh, you know, it's not a dropper. It just.

[Julie Wilson]

I had a sample and it was in a regular Sample vial. It has a glass wand, so you drop it on your pulse points and things. That's gorgeous.

[Jen Sullivan]

With this bedazzled. The studded jeweled butterfly on top. This thing is heavy. It's like a. It's a paperweight and it's like not that much juice inside.

[Julie Wilson]

But Dolly doesn't do things half ass.

[Jen Sullivan]

Dolly is a queen of the highest order and she's still out here. It makes me also feel like. Like the best is yet to come. Like we can just still keep creating and putting things, dope things out into the world. Because I'm pretty sure she's like 80. No.

[Julie Wilson]

Yeah. And she's number seven on this list for just. Just for Dollywood alone. I'm sure if you added in her new foray into beauty.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah, you'd be a force.

[Julie Wilson]

Okay.

[Jen Sullivan]

Who else is on this list?

[Julie Wilson]

The other fashion one was billionaire Boys Club Forel.

[Jen Sullivan]

I can't even believe that's still.

[Julie Wilson]

I literally was. That's why I'm like not sure about the methodology because I thought that was. Anyway, then number nine is Jimmy Buffett Rest in peace Margaritaville, which by the way has delicious food. The one in Times Square is a delight. If anybody ever wants to know.

[Jen Sullivan]

You know, there's a whole entire. I love a documentary. I don't know if you know this about me. I will watch any documentary on anything. And there's a documentary on. They're called Parrotheads. And I watched a whole documentary on parrot heads like a year ago.

[Julie Wilson]

And you can't get that. That hour and a half back. Julie.

[Jen Sullivan]

I can't. But like, I was just very fascinated around fandom and like how people will travel and do the things and like really drink the Kool Aid and. I don't know. As a journalist, I just loved it.

[Julie Wilson]

My parents are not Parrotheads, but they have been to more than one Jimmy Buffett concert. Something we do not share in common at all because his music gives me the air. But the bars are lovely and the food is lovely and it's always tropical time. I forget what the tagline Tropical times. In Margarita.

[Jen Sullivan]

It's always what music is he.

[Julie Wilson]

Margaritaville.

[Jen Sullivan]

I know, but what kind of music is. Because I just watched a documentary on yacht rock.

[Julie Wilson]

Yeah, that's what surf. She says surf pop. I can't get anything right. That's not beauty. Yacht rock. Would you consider that we're. Look this up. That's right.

[Jen Sullivan]

We're taking. I think he's a little too Tiki bar or something for yacht rock. He's More at the tiki bar and not on the boat. On the yacht, I think.

[Julie Wilson]

Yeah. Genres according to Wikipedia, Tropical rock. Tropical rock, country rock, folk rock, Calypso. Easy listening. Easy listening. Pop. That actually tracks for me.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yacht rock is like easy listening. There's a great documentary on yacht rock.

[Julie Wilson]

If you're into yacht rock. Rot rock's more like that Miami Vice like kind of music. I don't know. Anyway, we're getting beside the point cuz you the very last person we've met her because she's always been around the beauty world. Had a la Mer contract for a bit. If this gives you a clue.

[Jen Sullivan]

No. Who?

[Julie Wilson]

Kate Hudson for fabletics.

[Jen Sullivan]

Okay, cool.

[Julie Wilson]

And scene.

[Jen Sullivan]

And scene. Cool, cool, cool.

[Julie Wilson]

I give you a score of A for effort. Julie Belson. Okay. Thank you for indulging me. I think all this is to say just the majority of a lot of the brands that we consume here in America these days are started by celebrities.

[Jen Sullivan]

I don't agree with the number 1 1, but go ahead.

[Julie Wilson]

Me neither. All right, let's go raise some wands. That'll make us happier. Let's go to a happy place. Okay, I'm gonna let you in on a secret. I've always wanted to be a scientist. Everybody listens to fat mascara. Now knows it's gen science corner. Guess who has helped me up my game. Masterclass and their class with Bill Nye. Masterclass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with more than 200 of the world's best instructors. And all of this for just $10 a month, billed annually. A membership with Masterclass gets you unlimited access to every instructor. And you can access Masterclass on your phone. That's where I watch a lot of it. At the gym, on the treadmill, your computer, your smart tv, or even in audio mode if you don't want to look at the pictures. There's classes about every type of topic, from Jay Shetty navigating change, perfect for the moment to how to style your hair for every day with Jan Atkin, former fat mascara guest. And right now our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual [e-mail] FatMascara that's 15% [e-mail] FatMASCara Jess, what's the website? Masterclass.com FatMascara Winter hibernation is almost over. We're almost there. And it's time for some of that spring cleaning. Jess and I are going into the season with a completely refreshed laundry routine. I'm talking about Laundry Sauce. The premium scented laundry pods that don't just clean your clothes, they elevate them. I just washed the cotton throw that's on my couch with the Italian bergamot pods. Those are the ones in the orange box. It smells amazing. And lately for clothes, I've been doing the Laundry Sauce. Siberian pine in the white box. So good. Subtle, fresh, woodsy, energizing. And don't think just because these smell good that they don't actually work. Laundry Sauce performs the highly concentrated pods are packed with bioenzymes that obliterate stains. And because spring is all about fresh starts, they revive fabrics, making your favorite pieces look and feel brand new. Maybe the best part about Laundry Sauce, they offer a full money back guarantee. If you don't get better smelling cleaner laundry, you get a full refund, no questions asked. For a limited time only, our listeners get 20% off your entire order when you use the code mascara@laundry sauce.com that's 20% off your order@laundry sauce.com with promo code Mascara. After you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. It's time to make laundry day the best day of the week. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

[Jen Sullivan]

I don't know if you knew this.

[Julie Wilson]

But anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been expecting.

[Jen Sullivan]

Enjoy.

[Julie Wilson]

It's not just for celebrities.

[Jen Sullivan]

So do like I did and have.

[Julie Wilson]

One of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full [e-mail] foreign it is time to raise wands. Let's start with a listener, shall we? This is Amrita. Take it away.

[C]

Hi Jess and Jen. This is Amrita. I'm an avid listener follower from India. I absolutely love listening to your podcast because I am a skincare and makeup junkie and I don't have access to all of the products that you guys speak about, but I still get to keep in touch with all of the trends and everything that you guys speak about. That's super, super fun. I actually like to raise a wand not to a specific product but to a section of products. So I know we all love French pharmacy products, but I think the entire world is leaping on Indian pharmacy products. So I used to get products shipped from the rest of the world to India and play and pay like a lot of customs. And it was just super, super expensive. Not easy on the pocket. But then over the last year, I have been absolutely geeking out over all of the Indian pharmacy products that are available. Something as simple as a hyaluronic acid gel, which, trust me, is so much, so much better than any other toner that you may find. Hyaluronic acid toner that you may find anywhere else in the world is probably just two or $3. And we have everything from tret to Kojic acid, alpha arbutin, glycolic acid. Absolutely amazing products here. And I know, or rather I've seen a lot of people from the west loving to come to India for its culture and its food. But I definitely think that you guys need to recommend and if you're ever here, come and try out Indian pharmacy products because they're absolutely amazing. They're easy on the pocket. And more often than not, these products, products are very easily available because you have access to dermatologists within around, like an hour or 40 minutes of just calling into their clinics. So that should be really good. Thank you so much. I hope that, you know, you guys continue to do the work that you do. Thank you. Bye.

[Julie Wilson]

I love our listeners. I love, love, love the fam. I love the calls. Just so everybody knows, I figured out how to archive the old voicemail. So I think you again can have more than three minutes on our V mail machine because we were. People were getting cut off. Not sure about that, but keep calling us. Amrita, thank you for bringing your culture's products to the rest of us and reminding us. I think you're absolutely right. So what I did, she wants us to experience some of the Indian pharmacy delights that she knows about that. Like, we're all up here on French pharmacy. I think it's kind of hard to find these when you're not in India. So I went to the website. It's called Desi Food, so it's like American, of course, for anybody of a desi heritage. But I've bought spices there, so I've never even looked around the website. So I went. There's a whole beauty vertical. So I'm an idiot. You can indeed find Indian pharmacy products outside of India. They didn't have a huge selection, but what I ordered, because I was like, all right, I'll be in the vibe of what Amrita said, Dermaco, which is an Indian brand. They do a 1% hyaluronic. Acid sunscreen, Aqua Ultralight Gel, SPF 50.

[Jen Sullivan]

And it's $12 even more delightful.

[Julie Wilson]

So I gotta look at this and I gotta see what the sunscreen ingredients. My guess is they're not US approved, but who cares? That's fine. I'm sick of the US approved sunscreens in that whole rigmarole. I want to see what's in there. I might be ordering some other stuff, but. Have you ever been to India?

[Jen Sullivan]

I have not. It's definitely on the list.

[Julie Wilson]

Whenever anybody asks me where is the best thing you've ever eaten? I'm like, when I went to India, the food there was like, I could just the variety of food. If you think you don't like Indian food, you haven't been to India. Clearly. Because there's like so much. Anyway, I didn't get a lot of time in the pharmacies so I'm a little late to this game and I want to hear more about this from other listeners because I checked and we have more than a thousand listeners in India as of last week. So I would love for you to inform us which brands we should be looking for. Not that I'm not going to do the homework myself, guys, I'm not putting it all on everybody else, but even if you're not desi and you just know about Indian beauty brands, where can we find like, I want more.

[Jen Sullivan]

I want to know too, please.

[Julie Wilson]

Like, where's Stylevana on this? Why don't we start the imports over there? We're getting everything from South Korea from some Japanese brands.

[Jen Sullivan]

Absolutely. This like a, could be like a real movement or is this a white.

[Julie Wilson]

Space for somebody who's listening who's like wanting to be an importer for beauty products. Let's get into this. Anyway, I'll link to the one that I found that includes hyaluronic acid. But call us if you know of other sites where you're able to get your hands on these products or if there's some fancy favorites. Maybe if you go back to India to visit family or you're from India, like what are the brands we should be looking at? Us. Teach us. Teach us. 646-4818182. Julie, I'm sorry to say nobody cares about you or me and our eyeliner needs. I last week asked for a dark chocolate brown liquid eyeliner. You asked for a non transfer proof liquid eyeliner and nobody, no one got back to us.

[Jen Sullivan]

It's okay. Again, another opportunity.

[Julie Wilson]

Well, that's the thing. Cause there's a lot of black liquid eyeliners and a lot of the liquid eyeliners that don't dry and transfer. I know it's out there. I need someone to help us. We've been getting a lot of calls about the Sephora birthday parties and the tweens wearing anti aging makeup. So that conversation continues to be. Continues lit on fire with the fat mascara listeners. So call us about that too.

[Jen Sullivan]

Was it the state of California that is trying to.

[Julie Wilson]

Yes, that was what Jess and I talked about last week. The assembly person who I misgendered and kept calling she for the whole episode. He brought a bill about banning anti aging skincare for children and a lot of people rang in. Now, I'm curious to you because Your oldest is 10. Coming up on the age where they're gonna be getting into this kind of thing. I mean, he's a boy. I don't know how boy he is.

[Jen Sullivan]

But I feel like I can control it way more because I. In the industry, I, I can only imagine when there are parents who don't really. I mean, we read clinical studies for a living, right?

[Julie Wilson]

Like, so we know what's.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah, it's insider baseball for us. So, like, I can protect him from things. I'm like, do not put that on your face. I can like, literally hand. Go to the closet and hand him, you know, what he needs. I think away from the glider when you're just like, right. But I think it's like, you know, it's different for everyone else where they're just like, I want my kid to feel cute and do the things but, like, don't have the knowledge to know that actually shouldn't be on their face.

[Julie Wilson]

Right. And that's what Alix Lee is getting at. Wants to make sure that for parents who don't have time to do the homework or who just send their kid off to the mall and don't want to have to like, think that they might get their hands on something that's not great for their skin. But we were also talking about the fact of having birthday parties at Sephora and what does that mean about wealth, inequity or consumerism? So if anybody else wants to weigh in, we're going to keep the combo going. 6, 4, 6, 4, 818182. But also, can you help a sister out with some eyeliners? Guys, help us. Come on, help us. How about this? Transfer proof and dark chocolate brown. Two in one. Get it. Get one that works for me and Julie. Let's raise our own one, shall we?

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Julie Wilson]

What do you have for us?

[Jen Sullivan]

I actually have a product that launched a little over a year ago, like a 13 months ago that you probably know and maybe some of our listeners know, but if they don't, they should be put on Olay Cleansing melts. Have you gone into this?

[Julie Wilson]

It's funny because I have a cleanser too. And they're so. The lather. I don't know how to describe when they melt. Anyway, you're raising one. Go ahead.

[Jen Sullivan]

No, I want you to, like, get in to it with me. Like, they're actually like. I feel like people are sleeping on these. These because they might seem like a little gimmicky, but they're great. They're these little cleansing squares and you put them in your hand and you put them under the water and then you lather them into your hand. They dissolve and then you wash your face with it. And they're just so amazing. I don't know. Like, I've been really, like, leaning into it. Like I've had them for the past year, but like, you know, as an editor, we are constantly using other things. And I like, kind of rediscovered them in my cabinet and I was like, wait, let me go back to this. And my skin has been thriving.

[Julie Wilson]

I don't know how they did it because there is no single use plastic in that. The thing dissolves completely. But what's different, if you're thinking, why would I buy this fancy thing when I can just buy a foaming cleanser? The foam is so different from the foam in a liquid cleanser. Don't you find that? Yeah, it's like creamier and stretchier. I don't know how to describe it.

[Jen Sullivan]

It's really nice. And I like the fact that you can get. They have like a vitamin C1, they have a hyaluronic acid one, they have a retinol one. So there are these added benefits. Benefits. You can like, choose your own.

[Julie Wilson]

It feels like a little facial.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah, it's nice. Like, whatever your skin needs. So, like, I obviously have all of them. And so based on, like, what my skin needs, I will use it based on that. Like, I need a little bit more.

[Julie Wilson]

Vitamin C. Ms. Wareham needs a little. Wilson Wareham needs a little brightening. Let's get the vitamin C going today.

[Jen Sullivan]

I don't know, I just really love them. And I feel like it's one of those things. Like it's out there, but not enough people are talking about it.

[Julie Wilson]

We had a listener call in from Portland last week who wanted to be able to Bring the facial experience home to children in a way that felt, like, not too crazy. Those would be fun for a sleepover party. Like, everybody gets a little square before bed because the lather's fun. The experience is fun. It's. I always say to my husband and he will and my friends, like, whenever I'm eating something, like the hummus pack with the pretzels in it, you guys know what I'm talking about. The Sabra hummus. I'm like, it's a snack tivity or, like, pocky, you know? Cause you dip it. So I want a word for, like, when you're doing a beauty treatment, but it's also fun. It's like, it's a beauty activity.

[Jen Sullivan]

It's like, you know, like, peel off masks. Yeah, Just like, peel off your face. Almost like the new Pat McGrath one.

[Julie Wilson]

Yeah. That aren't a sheet mask, but, like, that. Or Biore. I mean, please. Biore strips, like, the original sensitivity of.

[Jen Sullivan]

Beauty products, for sure.

[Julie Wilson]

They feel like that a little. It's funny you mentioned those, because I also have a cleansing oil, and it's an oil because I was going to talk about how I pretty much don't use foam cleansers anymore because I find them to be too drying for my skin. And then I decide I'm not going to say that because there's still those Olay oils, melts, which aren't drying. I literally thought that to myself.

[Jen Sullivan]

Are you serious?

[Julie Wilson]

Yes. Because that's the only one I've tried in the last year where, like, okay, I got foam because I love foam. It feels so fun to wash your face with, like, lather. Right. But I was like, I always end up feeling drier afterwards. And I was like, no, those were pretty good. I didn't feel dry afterwards. It's serendipitous that, like, serendipitous. I'm almost like, should I not do my cleansing oil? But I still want to talk about my cleansing oil.

[Jen Sullivan]

But I like that you use an oil cleanser. Because we were just talking about this in the Cosmo offices that yesterday, literally yesterday, a few of the other beauty editors were like, I was just told not to use one oil on my face, like a face oil, and two, not to oil cleanse. It's like, the worst thing that you can do. And I was like, I will never break up with my Elemis Pro collagen cleansing bottle.

[Julie Wilson]

Yeah, you turned me on to that one. I love that one.

[Jen Sullivan]

I'm like, I don't care. And honestly, my face is Fine.

[Julie Wilson]

Who's saying this?

[Jen Sullivan]

I'm not gonna name the.

[Julie Wilson]

Tell me offline that you want. Oh, it's a dermatologist or Anna.

[Jen Sullivan]

Founder and a founder.

[Julie Wilson]

Okay. But maybe that's their marketing story now. And cleansers are bad because don't you feel like every time we get on board with a new beauty trend, then somebody comes out and they're like, I can sell stuff by saying that's wrong. Like, look at the whole clean. Toxins, no toxins.

[Jen Sullivan]

Right.

[Julie Wilson]

Nice. This one's good. Now it's bad.

[Jen Sullivan]

It's like right now with this oil cleanser, which you need to tell us what it is.

[Julie Wilson]

Which I haven't named yet.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yes. Do you double cleanse with it or cleanse with it? Just period.

[Julie Wilson]

So this is. Man. Yo, It's a South Korean brand.

[Jen Sullivan]

Oh, yeah. I know this brand yet.

[Julie Wilson]

So I wasn't super familiar with it, but they're expanding in the US Right now and they hosted a dinner to, like, get to know the products more. And I was speaking with. I met the coolest lady. She literally picked up and moved her life from Seattle to South Korea. She spoke Korean, but, like, Sunday school Korean. And she was just like, nope, I quit my job and just moved to South Korea with no visa and no job and landed at this company. She's the force. Anyway, Manyo in South Korea is the number one cleansing oil. Like, this is their. I'm trying. I was trying to think, like, maybe youth to the people would be America's. I'm just trying to think, like, what brand would be our number one cleansing oil? And like, in Japan, it might be dhc, if that means anything to anybody. It's a little bit older brand.

[Jen Sullivan]

What's that one Bar? Bio, Not Biosense, like the Squalene one.

[Julie Wilson]

Oh, people like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, anyway, so it's available at Ulta now. The Manyo pure cleansing oil and the deep cleansing oil. The deep cleansing oil is a little bit for oily skin and also taking off makeup. The pure cleansing oil is like the standard one. I love them both. And I don't need to double cleanse because it really breaks down the makeup, including if I wear waterproof eyeliner, and then it rinses clean some of the oils. I find feeling a little. A little. I don't mind that. But you get like a leave behind, if you will.

[Jen Sullivan]

Exactly. No, I love this. I'm glad we're on the same page because really, I didn't like what I was hearing yesterday about the no oil Use.

[Julie Wilson]

I want to hear about that so I can look into that some more and find out what that story is. And I also think this, with all things skincare, it's like, what works for you.

[Jen Sullivan]

Exactly.

[Julie Wilson]

I'm sure this founder maybe had an issue with pork, Something I don't. No.

[Jen Sullivan]

I think she's just opinionated sometimes in ways she shouldn't. It's fine.

[Julie Wilson]

And the cleansing balm I love too. But this is great for makeup removal. Smells good. It's almost 80% like pure oil, so not a lot of extra additives in there. Which probably reminds me that I could probably just use grapeseed oil. Expensive. It was $24 for a large bottle. So I would say that's a prestige cleansing product. But not high high. Not as much as that Elemis that you got me hooked on.

[Jen Sullivan]

Look. That Elemis Pro collagen cleansing Balm, y'all try it.

[Julie Wilson]

It's everything I have it my. It's for like. Like a Saturday, you know, when you have a little extra time and I want to just enjoy and breathe in and have a facial moment. That's when I bring out.

[Jen Sullivan]

Can I also raise a wand really quickly to something that's not beauty?

[Julie Wilson]

Yes.

[Jen Sullivan]

We love a podcast. Avi, I'm shouting out another podcast, but it is not a competitor. The telepathy tapes. If you guys are not listening to the telepathy tapes, please do. It's changed my life. It's about nonverbal, autistic people who have telepathic gifts. And I believe every second of it. I have a nonverbal autistic brother, and now it's, like, changed my life and it's just. Has changed my view and it helps me. It has helped calm my anxiety and worry around the shit show that the world is right now. Because. Because it reminds me that there are just other frequencies that we can be engaging with and, like, thinking about and pouring into these amazing humans that seem like they're shut ins and, like, there's nothing in there. And they are in there and they are doing their thing. And I think it's just so magical. It literally was the number one podcast in January over Joe Rogan.

[Julie Wilson]

Your brother, though. You guys communicate in your way.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yes. Like, I can understand him. Cause he mumbles and, like, he's still considered nonverbal because he doesn't really.

[Julie Wilson]

Did you feel, like, validated? Like, you're like, this is teaching me what's going on in that big, beautiful brain of his?

[Jen Sullivan]

Yes. And all of, like, I've been Surrounded by autistic people in my life, right? Because of the schools and the communities and like the activities. He's Special Olympics. And I just have seen, I am like very sensitive to that community of people, but I see the world being like, they're in the corner rocking and drooling and like not speaking. There's no one in there. There's nothing going on. And I'm like, they're in there. They actually, in this show they call us Muggles. And if you're like a Harry Potter person, like, Muggles are the people without magic. They're like the regular people, not the wizards. And they're like, you guys are Muggles. Like we are in here talking to each other, having full on conversations, learning things, being brilliant. And you move through life like we're not even even there. And there's a whole documentary being produced around it. It's like fascinating. And I really, after you listen to your fat mascara episodes, definitely add telepathy tapes to your list.

[Julie Wilson]

I'm on it immediately. I love this. It goes back to what you were saying about why we got into our line of work. A lot of like, empathy. It's so good to just put yourself in somebody else's worldview for a minute.

[Jen Sullivan]

They're in there like, it's all about love. And I know that that sounds so corny, but they're like, y'all are out here worrying about whether you're gonna get that bag, whether your credit score. They're like this earth school. What we're doing here is all about love and kindness and how you're treating people and like, stop worrying about worldly things.

[Julie Wilson]

Preach. Tell us more. All right, I'm listening. I. I literally am downloading it as we speak. That's our final raise. A1. I think it's a good note to end on. Get your beauty sleep, get your telepathy tapes. Podcast. Julie, thank you for coming on the show. Thank you. Part of the show. Love you. Love you all. Love the fam. Call us. Bye.

[Jen Sullivan]

Bye.

[Julie Wilson]

We hope you enjoyed the show. It's your reviews and feedback that help us make the podcast even better. Head over to itunes to rate and review us or email your thoughts to infoatmascara.com we also want to answer your beauty questions and hear what products you love. To share a Raza one product with you or to ask a beauty question, email us at infoatmascara. If you send it as a voice memo file, we can even share your voice on the podcast. You can also do that by leaving us a voice message. Our phone number in the United States is 646-481-8182. Thanks so much for listening. Ladies and gentlemen, we are now boarding Group A. Please have your boarding passes ready to scan. If your phone is cracked, old or was chewed up by your Chihuahua travel companion, please refrain from holding up the line. Instead, go to Verizon and trade in any phone in any condition from one of their top brands for the new Samsung Galaxy S25 plus with Galaxy AI and a watch and tab on any plan only Only on Verizon with new line on my plan. Service plan required for watch and tab. Additional terms apply. See verizon.com for details. Acast powers the World's best Podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend welcome back to the OGs.

[Jen Sullivan]

Without saying the OG podcast. Everywhere, man, y'all. Everywhere.

[Julie Wilson]

It's your OG UD here with the public service announcement. Make sure you subscribe to the OGs. This ain't just a podcast, it's a movement. The OGS brings you the stories, the moments and truth straight from the locker.

[Jen Sullivan]

Room, straight to your ears.

[Julie Wilson]

From hoops to life on and off the court, we've got the best stories in the game. You'll hear from your favorite Hoopers, comedians.

[Jen Sullivan]

Actors, entrepreneurs and a whole lot more.

[Julie Wilson]

Make sure you subscribe, turn your notifications on and tune in on Tuesdays because the OGs are bringing you the new heat every week. I'm talking about towels flying, you shoes going everywhere.

[Jen Sullivan]

OGS out ACAST helps creators launch, grow.

[Julie Wilson]

And monetize their podcasts. Everywhere Acast.

[Jen Sullivan]

Com.