Ep. 575: Influencer Troubles, Conservative Beauty Looks & The Week’s Beauty News

Summary

Fat Mascara Episode 575 Summary

Episode Title: Influencer Troubles, Conservative Beauty Looks & The Week’s Beauty News
Hosts: Jennifer Sullivan & Jessica Matlin
Release Date: April 23, 2025

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1. Celebrating Jennifer Aniston’s Appearance [01:40 - 03:05]

The episode kicks off with Jennifer and Jessica celebrating their recent collaboration with Jennifer Aniston. They express pride and delight over the positive listener feedback and the successful manifestation of their efforts.

• Jennifer: “I loved all the commentary on our social posts where our listeners were just like, you did it. You manifested it.” [01:48]

They discuss Aniston’s authentic personality and how her involvement has boosted their confidence in staying true to their personal styles, resisting fleeting beauty trends.

• Jessica: “I'm really proud of us. Sometimes I stop and I think from the first episode to now, it's too much for me to think about.” [02:18]

2. The Rising Trend of Beauty Devices [03:05 - 07:06]

Transitioning into beauty technology, Jessica shares her experience co-hosting an event featuring Dr. Annetta Resco’s Score Glow skincare device. They discuss the influx of multi-functional beauty gadgets in the market, emphasizing the importance of simplicity and effectiveness.

• Jessica: “I love it. I used it for Moda because we get these pitches all the time to have the new new face, the new LaMia, the new zip.” [04:08]

Jennifer and Jessica reminisce about the Clarisonic era, highlighting how beauty devices have evolved and their impact on skincare routines.

• Jennifer: “I think it started with the Clarisonic, sort of like, then everybody got more comfortable with putting things on their face.” [06:04]

3. Revolve’s Lawsuit and Influencer Marketing Ethics [10:56 - 18:55]

A significant portion of the episode delves into Revolve’s class-action lawsuit against deceptive influencer marketing practices. Revolve is accused of misleading consumers by having influencers disguise paid endorsements as genuine recommendations, violating FTC regulations.

• Jennifer: “That’s what this lawsuit is saying is they colluded to kind of be like, it's okay if they don't show that it's a paid promotion. We still are getting the influencer promotion.” [13:00]

The hosts recount their own experiences from a decade ago when disclosure of gifted products became essential, underscoring the ongoing struggles with transparency in influencer marketing.

• Jessica: “We have to disclose ad gifted. And for maybe seven hours, we all did that, and then it fell away.” [13:39]

Jennifer praises Caroline Hirons for setting an example by clearly labeling ads at the beginning of captions, enhancing transparency.

• Jennifer: “Caroline Hirons was the first person I saw who literally just puts at the first part of the caption. This is an ad.” [14:43]

4. Conservative Beauty Trends in Uncertain Times [18:55 - 25:34]

Jennifer and Jessica explore how conservative politics are influencing beauty standards, referencing a Vogue Business article. They discuss how during uncertain times, there's a societal shift towards conformity and traditional aesthetics, which are often influenced by the male gaze and gender separation.

• Jennifer: “When there's lifted brows, more prominent cheekbones, smaller chin, fuller lips using filler, that is what sometimes is more feminine looking to people.” [21:44]

Jessica critiques the AI-generated imagery used to represent conservative beauty features, questioning the lack of diversity and the oversimplification of beauty standards.

• Jessica: “A lot of these kind of theses are inherently flawed in that way because they're using this very... do you call it spooky, Gattaca looking, non-human kind of person.” [22:32]

They also discuss the resurgence of big hair as a nostalgic trend rather than purely conservative, with insights from colorist Ashley Schaefer who connects it to indulgence and comfort.

• Ashley Schaefer (via story read by Jennifer): “The aesthetic is indeed a throwback... it feels more nostalgic and comforting.” [24:32]

5. Counter Movements and Individual Expression [25:34 - 37:59]

Addressing the balance between conformity and individuality, Jennifer and Jessica acknowledge that while many gravitate towards conservative beauty standards in times of uncertainty, there are always counter-movements striving for self-expression and uniqueness.

• Jessica: “There's always a sect that's gonna go the other way. So I'm not saying everyone is just in pearls and big hair, but... there are people who are two fingers up.” [25:34]

6. Guest Segment with Atlas Henschel [31:27 - 34:36]

The episode features a delightful interaction with a young guest, Atlas Henschel, who brings humor and a fresh perspective. Atlas shares his candid opinions on organic toothpaste and briefly discusses his love for video games and the "Minecraft" movie.

• Atlas: “It tastes like I'm putting a ball of caulk in my mouth.” [32:31]

His playful demeanor adds a light-hearted touch to the episode, highlighting the diverse range of conversations on Fat Mascara.

7. Product Highlights and Recommendations [35:27 - 37:19]

Concluding the episode, Jennifer and Jessica share their favorite beauty products and sponsor highlights, including Westminatello’s bronzing drops designed to emulate Jennifer Aniston’s signature glow. They provide tips on application and express enthusiasm for the products' effectiveness.

• Jessica: “They give you the Jennifer Aniston glow.” [36:16]

Jennifer encourages listeners to maintain their beauty routines while balancing fun and personal style, wrapping up the episode on a positive and engaging note.

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Key Takeaways:

• Transparency in Influencer Marketing: The Revolve lawsuit underscores the critical need for authenticity and clear disclosure in influencer endorsements to maintain consumer trust.

• Impact of Politics on Beauty Standards: Economic and political uncertainties influence beauty trends, pushing society towards more traditional and conformist aesthetics while sparking counter-movements advocating for individuality.

• Evolution of Beauty Devices: The beauty industry continues to innovate with multi-functional devices, though consumer preferences lean towards simplicity and effectiveness over complexity.

• Importance of Authenticity: Maintaining personal style and authenticity remains paramount, even amidst fluctuating beauty trends and industry pressures.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jennifer: “It's time for the news everybody. It's a wrap on Coachella.” [10:56]

• Jessica: “Wear what you want to wear. Stay true to your style.” [03:16]

• Jennifer: “The gifted one is one thing. I think that that is pretty much assumed with an influencer.” [13:39]

• Jessica: “There’s always a sect that's gonna go the other way.” [25:34]

• Atlas: “It tastes like I'm putting a ball of caulk in my mouth.” [32:31]

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This episode of Fat Mascara offers a blend of industry news, in-depth discussions on beauty trends influenced by societal shifts, and engaging interactions with guests, all while maintaining the hosts' signature candid and insightful style.

Transcript

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[Jessica]

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Fat Mascara. It's Jessica.

[Jennifer]

It's Jennifer.

[Jessica]

How are you today?

[Jennifer]

I'm good. How are you?

[Jessica]

This is good. Spring has sprung. Spring has sprung. Spring has sprung.

[Jennifer]

We're doing it. It has. Here we are. How's it going? All right.

[Jessica]

Lots to talk about today. Lots to. Lots to get to.

[Jennifer]

Should we just have a moment, though, for Jennifer Aniston? Because I don't think you and I have been on the mic since that happened.

[Jessica]

Oh, my God.

[Jennifer]

Just let's revel in it for a second. I loved all the commentary on our social posts where our listeners were just like, you did it. You manifested it. And we always actually next Friday we're having a guest on where we actually talk about this whole, like, manifesting thing. But we kind of did really work to make that happen. And I'm proud of us. And it was such a fun combo.

[Jessica]

She's great. I'm really proud of us. I'm really proud of us. Sometimes I stop and I think from the first episode to now, I'm like, it's too much for me to think about.

[Jennifer]

Okay.

[Jessica]

It's too much. Jennifer Aniston had in her little diary, fat mascara, 2 o'clock, be there or be square.

[Jennifer]

And she was a lot of people.

[Jessica]

Talking about the pretzels that she. That she mentioned her running.

[Jennifer]

I know the burnt pretzels people were into. And then just Dumplin. We got a bunch. Just side note, people were always like, I'm so glad you. Yeah, the movie. I'm so glad that you asked about that, because they love that movie, too. Dumplin.

[Jessica]

Very poignant, poignant film. She's a real one. Love her.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, she's. Exactly. And by the way, she's one of those celebrities. I don't know if I. I wouldn't tell you if she was horrible, but I will tell you when they're extra good, she's as much as what you think she is. She's exactly that. So.

[Jessica]

And she also gave me a lot of confidence to keep wearing the same.

[Jennifer]

Cool shit to stay true to your style.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. Like, why you got to worry, but don't worry about the trends.

[Jessica]

Yeah, don't worry. Yeah. This stupid trend is in fashion. You don't have to go chase it like some kind of dog chasing a car.

[Jennifer]

Wear the jeans you want to wear.

[Jessica]

Wear what you want to wear. Stay true to your style.

[Jennifer]

What have you been up to since, you know, Jennifer Aniston was on her podcast?

[Jessica]

Well, Jennifer.

[Jennifer]

Other Jennifer.

[Jessica]

Other Jennifer. Gen 1. There was a breakfast on Monday co hosted by Mona Operandi and me with Dr. Annetta Resco for the launch of her Score Glow handy dandy skincare device. It does all the things. It's got this, it's got that, it's got infrared, it's got. It beeps, it boops, it bops. Okay, go check it out. I'll put a link. My point is, it's like six devices in one now. I was into it for Moda because we get, like, these pitches all the time to have. Basically, it's the new new face, it's the new Lima, it's the new zip.

[Jennifer]

Jess keeps a tight edit.

[Jessica]

I keep a tight edit also because I can't even keep track of all this stuff. And, like, if you listen to the show, you know that Jenna are not, like, huge device people. We don't have the time.

[Jennifer]

What drew you to this one?

[Jessica]

Somebody used this word. And if you're listening, I'm sorry. Cause I'm gonna, like, steal your word. I love it. It collapses six devices in one. Anything that is gonna collapse. Something like multitask. I just like the word collapse when it comes to device.

[Jennifer]

It means I've condensed, I've made simpler.

[Jessica]

Yes. And I used it. I tried it at her office. It was simple. It was pretty idiot.

[Jennifer]

Proof.

[Jessica]

You usually get frustrated by technology. It didn't hurt. My lip wasn't twitching. I didn't look like a horse when she was using it on me. Okay. I didn't have a horse lip. It is expensive, but it's not as expensive as some of the other devices that are four digits. Oh, my God. It's really, really an interesting device, and she's been working on it for several years. And Dr. Rezko is a sound, sound dermatologist. So I was very happy to host this event. Check it out. Tell us what you think. Are you into devices? Are you not into devices? Are you deviced out?

[Jennifer]

Devices are divisive, aren't they?

[Jessica]

Devices are divisive. So, Jen, can I get my gig? Jen, I'm not laughing out loud, but I'm impressed. I'm very impressed.

[Jennifer]

Okay, thank you.

[Jessica]

We've got a writer. We've got a writer.

[Jennifer]

The worst is when people make a good pun or joke and then stop everything so we can all sit here and admire it. I should have just let it go with that.

[Guest]

But.

[Jennifer]

But anyway.

[Jessica]

No, I like it. I like it. But I am curious. Do you guys spend money on devices? Are they on your wish list?

[Jennifer]

Homework. Tell us about your device habits for skincare.

[Jessica]

Yeah. Is there a device you guys really like?

[Jennifer]

I think it started with the Clarisonic, sort of like, then everybody got more comfortable with putting things on their face.

[Jessica]

She makes. She makes a device called the Score Cleanse, which is really nice.

[Jennifer]

Like a cleansing one. Yeah, Yeah. I spoke last week about Foreo, actually, and I was like, oh, yeah, there's a lot of device companies. And now I'm curious which ones have become part of people's ongoing routine.

[Jessica]

I really like the Clarisonic thing. I thought was a bit sad because.

[Jennifer]

Clarisonic was a great product for certain types of skin.

[Jessica]

Yes, yes. But they did make a sensitive head. They did make a sensitive head. But remember, they even did. They had an event like, for your feet.

[Jennifer]

Do you remember that one? That's when we jumped the shark. When I was like, okay, I see what's happening here. People who wanted this device bought it, and then they're like, well, how do we keep this company going and growing if everybody already has this device and is using it? Put it on your feet.

[Jessica]

It was. They added a pumice attachment or something, right?

[Jennifer]

Yeah. And I was just like, I don't. Anytime. Petty devices. I feel like not everybody gets into those. That's a stretch.

[Jessica]

But I just think that was. It was a great. It was A great company. It was a great, like, it was a great device. Original device. But then I think, yeah, then they had to. They started doing skincare or something. Did I make that up?

[Jennifer]

Did you know they had skin care? They had skincare as well. I just think there was also people who. It was too disruptive to their skin barrier. It was too irritating for some skin types. But here we are with, like, at least 10 years after that. So call us 646-4818182. I wanna know what your device habits are like these days.

[Jessica]

Yeah. Is there one you like?

[Jennifer]

I mean, I'm pretty sure our phones are pretty soon gonna just, like, have a thing that comes out of them for our face. Just like an app where you just stare at the phone and then the light beams at you. That'd be good. Somebody invent that? There you go. We just threw you out. Another idea, an app that I turn on and then the LED just like beams from the phone screen onto my face. That'd be nice. Probably bad for your eyes. All right, maybe that's a bad idea. Should we do the news for people who know what they're talking about when they talk about beauty?

[Jessica]

Let's do it.

[Jennifer]

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[Jessica]

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[Jennifer]

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[Jessica]

Masterclass.com FatMascara.

[Jennifer]

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[Jennifer]

Okay, it is time for the news everybody. It's a wrap on Coachella. Cause I know. Cause I know you were all out in the desert for $1,000 and watching the music.

[Jessica]

How much does it cost to like get out there like baseline? You know, I don't know.

[Jennifer]

I would think that would be about the estimate. Cause there was a lot of news going around that people are using afterpay and Klarna and breaking up the cost of the tickets because it was so expensive. But I've also seen since the festival wrapped some think pieces on Are we done with Coachella? Obviously live music isn't going anywhere, but they sort of clocked peak Coachella 2019. And I was like, oh okay. Well this is six years later and people are still doing it. At least from a brand marketing perspective. It's still really valuable because Rhode and Patrick star had beauty activations all over the place and got a lot of play out of those. But interesting to me, as this was all going on, one of the biggest Coachella sponsors, speaking of marketing, was Revolve, the fashion line. And during the festival, they got hit with a class action lawsuit filed in California Central District Court accusing it of violating federal trade law by operating an advertising quote, unquote scheme in which influencers disguise paid product endorsements as genuine recommendations. So of course they can encourage their influencers to use hashtags to say, this is an ad, make it clear this is a paid promotion. But unless they stipulate it with a money payment, some of the influencers don't. And what this lawsuit is saying is they colluded to kind of be like, it's okay if they don't show that it's a paid promotion. We still are getting the influencer promotion. Then there's internal documents that came out that showed as early as 2023, the executives themselves were worried about this. Like, hey, we might have issues with the FTC and consumer protection laws because our influencers aren't correctly hashtagging things as paid or promotional. I kind of love that the people are realizing this and fighting back with a class action lawsuit because this has bothered me. Everybody just assumes everything's paid because nobody's clear about the hashtags anymore.

[Jessica]

So do you remember when we were at Hearst? This is like a really long time ago. This is, you know, talking about, like 10 years ago. I remember there was a little meeting. Maybe this was like brand by brand. And you and I worked for different brands at the time. There was a meeting when, like, it was Instagram had just kind of like blown up and we were all posting, like, beauty products and like, free stuff that we got and clothes and all that. And there was a meeting that said, like, you have to disclose ad gifted. And for maybe seven hours, we all did that, and then it fell away.

[Jennifer]

The gifted one is one thing. I think that that is pretty much assumed with an influencer and maybe even people like us. So I still try to say I got this free, which I think we kind of say a lot of times when we do. But with influencers, you assume a lot of the stuff in their lifestyle is not paid for. But what you don't assume is they also got paid hard cold cash to promote something, in which case it is a hard, cold advertisement in the eyes of the ftc. And so I was looking into, like, well, how are they colluding if they Just don't do that. That's really bad. But they'd also do, like, the hashtags and say the hashtags were like, pretty hair, you know, pink. And then they'd put hashtag ad, and then they'd put big hair. And it would be all smushed together without breaks. So it looks like one big word. It's at the bottom. So you'd have to, like, click the caption down to see it. Like, it's not clear. It's not the first. I remember Caroline Hirons was the first person I saw who literally just puts at the first part of the caption. This is an ad. And I started. When I do ad, I like to do it in the beginning now because I was like, that's how you should do it. If you stick it at the end and mush it in with a bunch of other hashtags, no one's even gonna see it.

[Jessica]

She's really good.

[Jennifer]

Well, she's just clear about it.

[Jessica]

I know. I know your followers. I like her style.

[Jennifer]

Cause I think people understand that this is how certain types of influencers get paid. But yeah, if you're going to buy something for Valve. So one of the. The person, the first person who's suing was like, okay, I'm paying for revolve, which is like 20, 30% more than the same goods from another retailer. And I didn't know it's because the people that are wearing it that I admire were getting paid to promote it. And I was like, all right, let's see what happens. Bring it on.

[Jessica]

You know what else I want? I wish was more related. Not related. Wish was more open. Like it set out in the celebrities who are paid to attend things. I was a little too late to the party when I didn't understand that certain celebrities are paid to attend events.

[Jennifer]

To just be photographed, step and repeat. Like, they went in the party and then they leave.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

And like four and five digits, cashola, sometimes six.

[Jessica]

Yeah, I wish. Yeah. That's another thing that I wish was out in the public. Fashion shows, parties, even, like celebrity birthday parties and stuff. It's not all fake, but I wish people, like, just the public, but especially young people realize, like, they're not all buddies.

[Jennifer]

Can you picture, you know those front row at fashion show shots that are the money shot now that they want. They want to show who's cool. They curated the right group of people. If they each had to hold a little poster board, like paid TK to be here. 50 grand, hashtag sponsored seat or Hashtag I was paid to attend or whatever it is. Just hold up a sign and like that.

[Jessica]

They don't own those clothes. And they were dressed, of course. Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't know, like all the kind of manufacturing, like you're saying the Coachella thing, that that's all a business deal. Like, I wish the kind of transparency of business deals just in what we see extended. But I guess that's everything. That's literally every everything. But as young people and also people who are not like, in that world, you kind of believe it, and then it affects how you feel about the world and yourself.

[Jennifer]

Yes. I was just watching Tom Hanks, America's the Nature.

[Jessica]

Oh, how is that document?

[Jennifer]

They're good. It's on, I think peacock. And, you know, it's all nature. It's the kind of thing I love. It's like the David Attenborough. And there was this scene on the prairies in the Frozen north episode, and it was, I think, some bird. And, you know, I should know what bird is doing its mating.

[Jessica]

You really should, Jen. You really should.

[Jennifer]

I know it's so bad, but that's not the point. The point is, instead of just showing the bird at dawn doing the dance, they had a Ford truck, but clearly that. I don't know if it's an ad, but now I think it is. They're in the prairie. This guy gets in his truck and he drives out to the prairie, but they never introduce the guy. They're just showing tight shots of the car and he puts his headlights onto the prairie to show that the birds will respond to any kind of light and start thinking it's dawn and doing their dance.

[Jessica]

Oh, wow.

[Jennifer]

And as they're doing this beautiful shot of the birds doing the dance, and it's like the truck emblem in the background. And I was like, is this paid. Is this fun con in the middle of a nature documentary? Because, like, why would they do that? Normally it's just nature. I don't really want the truck here. I mean, it was well integrated, but I. You. You can't help but think it now when you see things.

[Jessica]

I would say maybe it was not like it was just like a happy accident, but no way. If it's a. If it's a Tom Hanks huge production, it's not going to be like just some random car. It's definitely an integration.

[Jennifer]

Right.

[Jessica]

Did you ever see Wayne's World? The first one? Do you know which bit I'm talking about? It's so funny. If you saw it, you Know what I'm talking about? Like, just go watch it. The thing with, like, Pepsi is like.

[Jennifer]

And they stop and move to camera three to, like, be like, Pepsi or whatever it is.

[Jessica]

Yeah. And Garth is all like, these placements. So cynical. Like, never do that. And he's got, like, Pepsi hat eating Cheetos. It's so prescient. So funny.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, well, yeah, people are. I don't know where this is going to go, because if this lawsuit goes through and they do have to pay to the consumers who were sort of duped by the practice.

[Jessica]

Yeah. Wow.

[Jennifer]

That opens the floodgates for a bunch of other brands, I bet, that are going to have issues with this because it's sort of standard business.

[Jessica]

Wow.

[Jennifer]

All right, all right, moving on. This actually picks up on something you talked about. When we were at. When we were in South Carolina, we were talking about shaving. Is that like a conservative sort of beauty idea? Well, a big piece just came out in Vogue Business, and it's all about our conservative politics reshaping beauty ideals. So the writer talks about. They quote psychologists and historians saying that when there's uncertain times, first of all, people gravitate towards conformity or familiar aesthetics or what might be thought of as conservative aesthetics. But then they brought up something that I think you kind of alluded to, which was that these conformist type of beauty standards, they really rely on notions. I think you called it the male gaze, which you said with a wink, but it's totally true. But the very traditional idea.

[Jessica]

G A Z, E, G, A, Z, E. Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Of gender separation, which also plays into conservative politics, but that women should look this way, men should look that way. One's femme, one's masc. And that reflects a desire for order and control. You know, in uncertain times and when things are scary, people sometimes want the familiar and they want conservative.

[Jessica]

So the. The way they kind of map this out in terms like, well, what does that look like? If you're like, well, what does conservative look like? They used this little, like, face map. It's a little funny the way they. They did it. So I'm kind of like, what does this really mean?

[Jennifer]

They used AI for that, I think.

[Jessica]

Yeah, they use AI images.

[Jennifer]

Speaking of times of uncertainty and what's happening, the irony is not lost on us that they are using AI to, like.

[Jessica]

Yes, they use AI images. And they. They have this woman's face, and it maps out lifted eyebrows, prominent cheekbones using filler, a sculpted jawline, and full lips using filler. I'm not really sure, like, you could be like. Some of the criticism was like, well, how. How are features conservative? It's not like, you know, a baby's born, you're like, oh, that's a conservative looking baby. You know what I mean?

[Jennifer]

Like, that's a Republican baby.

[Jessica]

Yeah. It's kind of weird to say, like, these are conservative features.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

So I'm not totally on board with that, but I think what we're talking about more is like styling and like emphasizing femininity. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Jennifer]

So, because features are, I mean, that is the difference between faces. When, if you objectively. Like this is the work of like, Nancy Edkoff, a psychologist who looked into this. If you objectively look at a face when there's lifted brows, more prominent cheekbones, smaller chin, fuller lips, that is what sometimes is more feminine looking to people. So any kind of work or makeup that emphasizes that feels like trad.

[Jessica]

Yeah, you're trying, yeah, you're trying to be the more traditional. Big air quotes. Conventional big air quotes. And then of course, if you're listening and you're saying, wait, wait, wait, they're not accounting for race, ethnicity and all of that. Totally hear you and understand. A lot of these kind of thesises are inherently flawed in that way because they're using this very. I mean, look at the AI image. It's this very kind of spooky, Gattaca looking, non human, non human kind of person. And a lot of these don't address race or ethnicity at all. But I think I stand by what I said a couple weeks ago. I think that in times of uncertain times, especially economically uncertain times, my intuition is that, yeah, a lot of people are not feeling free to express themselves.

[Jennifer]

In non traditional ways.

[Jessica]

In non traditional ways. I think about 2016 or like more 2015, 2016. I feel like there was before Trump. Okay. I feel there was a lot more kind of like freedom in the air.

[Jennifer]

A little bit more zitsticker era. It's when the zitstickers came out.

[Jessica]

Yeah. Like I was at Teen Vogue and we did a lot of really fun, wild shoots. And Teen Vogue was inherently a more kind of edgy publication, but it was. The fashion was crazier, the beauty was a little bit more eccentric. And now what people wore to work was different today. And that's a very self selected group. But like today, I think people are hanging onto their jobs for dear life. People are scared. I don't think that people are taking big swings in the same way.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. Adding onto that just like a sidebar hair. If you're Thinking about hair. Big Hair, Town and Country just put out, actually a story about this, saying that in Washington, big hair is back and equating that once again with that conservative category. But I liked what New York City colorist Ashley Schaefer had to say in this story. The story was by Maddy Kahn, and so I'll just read the story really quick. She says the aesthetic is indeed a throwback, like we said, like a throwback to familiar, so it feels more nostalgic and comforting. But Schaeffer, this colorist, doesn't think it telegraphs a yearning for the Reagan era instead of an appetite for conservative policies. She suspects the trend speaks to a nostalgia for an earlier moment of, quote, sitting under the heat, having rollers in and a cigarette. End quote. It's indulgent. It doesn't pretend to be effortless. And so that's something, too. That's not necessarily conservative, but it's a time when, like, big hair was big. When you couldn't be on a screen. You had to sit there. You could indulge a little. You put a half a can of hairspray in there like you were talking to the girls. There was time for that.

[Jessica]

That's very interesting. I like that theory. I will say that in these times of pressure and people feeling like they can't express themselves and just feeling like they're against a wall, I do think that there's always a movement. Like, think of, like, the punk movement. Think of the hippie movement. There's always a. There's always a counter to the counter. Yeah, exactly. A sect that is gonna go the other way. So I'm not saying that. Oh, everyone is just, you know, in pearls and big hair and totally excited to fall in line to keep their paycheck coming. That's not it at all. I think there's a majority, and then there's people who are indifferent, and then there are people who are, like, two fingers up. Guess what I'm gonna do? You know, I'm gonna be even more me.

[Jennifer]

We see it play out in fashion, and I'll be curious to see how that plays out in beauty as well. But I guess it seems like we're not the only people that sort of feel this vibe of equating certain looks with certain social policies.

[Jessica]

So interesting.

[Jennifer]

All right, shall we go raise a wand? I might have a surprise for you.

[Jessica]

Ooh.

[Guest]

Foreign.

[Jessica]

Thinning hair is something that nobody wants to deal with. And it's honestly the top question that people come to Jen and me with. Really? Sometimes what you need is an expert intervention.

[Jennifer]

Enter her's hair hers hair treatments are made with doctor trusted prescription ingredients. Sometimes you got to go there. You need a prescription and many other hair products out there don't have those. They come in a variety of options including oral and topical solutions so you can find the one that works works for you. Getting started is simple. All you do is take a quiz online. Love a quiz. Answer some questions and you'll be connected with a provider to discuss your personalized treatment plan through hers. Everything is 100 online so no pharmacy trips, no doctor office visits, no worrying with insurance. Plus treatments start at just 35amonth.

[Jessica]

Start your initial free online Visit [e-mail] mascara that's F O R H E R S.com mascara for your personalized hair loss treatment options for hers.com mascara individual results may vary.

[Jennifer]

Compounded products are not FDA approved or verified for safety, effectiveness or quality prescription required. Prices vary based on product and subscription plan. See website for full details, restrictions and important safety information. This year I want to make Mother's Day extra special for my mom. That's why I'm giving her a unique heartfelt gift that'll truly make her feel loved. I hope so Mom. It's called Storyworth.

[Jessica]

I actually did this with my mom and it was so much fun and I have to tell you felt very close to her. It was really nice. Each week Storyworth emails your loved one a memory provoking question that you get to help. Pick questions like did you ever get in trouble in school? Or what was your favorite Saturday morning cartoon? All your loved one needs to do is respond to that email with a story. It's very simple. They can either write a story or record it over the phone for Storyworth to transcribe. Easy. You'll be emailed a copy of your loved one's response as they're submitted or the course of the year after that year. Fun. Storyworth compiles all of your loved ones stories and photos, if you like, into a beautiful keepsake hardcover book that you'll be able to share and revisit for generations to come.

[Jennifer]

No wonder Story Worth has more than 40,000 five star reviews on Trust Pilot. With millions of stories preserved since they were founded over 10 years ago, give all the moms in your life a unique, heartfelt gift you'll all cherish for years. Storyworth right now save $10 on your first purchase when you go to storyworth.commascara that's storyworth.commascara to save $10 on your first purchase. Spring is springing. I am ready to travel and I have a shopping cart full of Quint items to help me upgrade my travel essentials this year. Jess, I wanted to talk to you first about what you love about Quince.

[Jessica]

I mean, I don't have the time, but I'll just tell you a few things I love about Quince. They have lightweight European linen styles from just $30. Washable, washable guys, silk tops and comfy lounge sets. They partner directly with top factories and that's why they're able to cut out the cost of the middleman and pass the savings on to you. And they only work with factories that use safe, ethical and and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I love that.

[Jennifer]

I'm getting a little linen shift dress that I think will be very packable. And they have packing cubes. This set of packing cubes is amazing. Like 7 with mesh so that like, if you put laundry in there, it's still getting aerated. There's a little shoe cube in there. It's a whole setup. I'm very excited.

[Jessica]

Nice. For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from quint. Go to quint.com fat mascara for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's quince.com fatmascara Q-U-I-N-C-E.com fat mascara to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com fat mascara okay, everyone, it's time to raise a wand. And we've got Ginger. Great name from San Francisco.

[Guest]

Hi, Jeff, Jen, Julie and Carrot. This is Ginger from San Francisco Bay Area, longtime listener of the podcast. And it could be a raise a wand, but I just wanted to shout out one of your show's sponsors, laundry Sauce. FYI did some research. Top three cleaners in the laundry space. But I wanted to just let you know that Kate with laundry sauce and customer service just did a fabulous job. I placed an order and the scent profile that I received was so strong and overpowering for me. Without hesitation, they let me order a sample package and when I figured out my scent, they exchanged it for free and just told me to donate my other pods instead of sending them back. And just amazing customer service. We'll continue to order from them, but just wanted to shout out that they are great sponsor for fat mascara. Thanks and have a great day.

[Jennifer]

Okay, well, now that I've played that, by the way, I was like, wait, are people going to think that's branded? That was not Paid for. They just happen to be a sponsor. This is not an ad. It's not an ad.

[Jessica]

This one's not an ad.

[Jennifer]

But it was funny because Jess and I fell in love with that brand and then they became a sponsor. And so this was unrelated, but she did find them through our show notes and through our code mascara.

[Jessica]

So glad that we could bring you the best in clean laundry.

[Jennifer]

That's right. Me too. Okay, I know our homework is this. We said at the top, but we're, like, curious to hear what devices people are using. Call us.

[Jessica]

Or not using.

[Jennifer]

Or not using. Call us to either. Talk about devices in general. What you like, what you don't like. Tell us about one that you're like. No, this is the one. Because Jess wants to collapse everything like she wants one device. I think she's found it. But what do you think that is? 646-481-8182. It's good homework, right?

[Jessica]

Good homework.

[Jennifer]

Okay. All right, it's time to raise a wand. And Jess, this is a little bit of a surprise for you, but I have a guest.

[Jessica]

I'm so excited.

[Jennifer]

I have a guest wand razor. If the audio is not great, it's because I brought a guest into the studio.

[Jessica]

Oh, my God.

[Jennifer]

Eating my. Raise a wand too. Say your name.

[Atlas Henschel]

Atlas Henschel, the Great.

[Jennifer]

Woo hoo.

[Atlas Henschel]

Yay. I mean, you're probably on Spotify, not necessarily looking at me. My hair is terrible. Great to be on a beauty podcast. Anyway, I shall not raise a wand, or in this case, fancy toilet seat remote, but rather lower a wand, or in this case, fancy toilet seat remote.

[Jennifer]

Okay, you're lowering a wand.

[Atlas Henschel]

I have a confession. Screw organic toothpaste.

[Jennifer]

Okay. Why don't you like natural organic toothpaste?

[Atlas Henschel]

It tastes really bad.

[Jennifer]

Jump from the mic a little bit. What's the problem?

[Atlas Henschel]

It tastes like I'm putting a ball of caulk in my mouth. Like I'm putting a whole bunch of rocks in there.

[Jessica]

What kind of toothpaste are you?

[Jennifer]

We don't like to diss by name, but we'll just say we got a brand of natural toothpaste.

[Atlas Henschel]

We got a certain brand. And I don't want to do anything because they sent us. They sent Jen a very nice package. I generally don't receive beauty products with my hair.

[Jessica]

Right, right. They did.

[Jennifer]

And so he's like, oh, let me try the toothpaste. And what'd you think?

[Atlas Henschel]

Great.

[Jessica]

What's your favorite toothpaste? What do you use at home normally?

[Atlas Henschel]

What do I use at Home. The cheapest in the store. As you can see, I very much deserve to be on a beauty podcast.

[Jessica]

I think you should have your own. Okay, if you. If you were to have your own podcast, Atlas, what would it be about?

[Atlas Henschel]

Video games.

[Jennifer]

Wait, I heard you so into the mic, you're probably blowing people's ears out.

[Atlas Henschel]

That's the plan here.

[Aura Sponsor]

Okay.

[Jessica]

Video games.

[Jennifer]

He loves video games.

[Atlas Henschel]

Yeah, you can tell because I'm 10.

[Jessica]

How was the Minecraft movie?

[Atlas Henschel]

Best movie ever. Everybody listening?

[Jennifer]

No. Lower wan go watch the Minecraft. Lower Awan to the Minecraft. Even he thought it wasn't great.

[Atlas Henschel]

It was not good.

[Jennifer]

We didn't love it.

[Jessica]

You didn't love it? No, no. Okay. Oh, all right, all right.

[Jennifer]

Are you gonna go with Lake? Her daughter's five.

[Jessica]

No, she doesn't know about Minecraft. She doesn't know what's going on in that world.

[Jennifer]

No, that was good. You did a good job. Thank you. Thank you for raising wands.

[Atlas Henschel]

You're welcome. Sh to gloopy.

[Jessica]

Okay.

[Atlas Henschel]

Bi 10 year old with bad hair out.

[Jennifer]

Okay. You're free to go.

[Jessica]

Thanks, Atlas. I mean, how do I follow Atlas? I can't follow a kid. Can we just like, end on Atlas? Does it end on Atlas?

[Jennifer]

I don't know. He lowered him on. I want to like, let's say end on an upbeat. Isn't he the best?

[Jessica]

He's funny.

[Jennifer]

I love him so much.

[Jessica]

Oh, my God. I love him too. I was like, I just want to give him a hug. He's so cute. He's so cute. He's quite scrumptious. He's so cute. He's a scrumptious child. He's a scrumptious child. And he's adorable. Smart, smart. He's very funny. He said some funny things after he left. Okay.

[Jennifer]

I don't know. I haven't heard the audio yet. Cause I haven't checked it, but good lord. He was grabbing the mic close. So sorry if we blew out your ears there. Hopefully Enrique can clean that up.

[Jessica]

He was enthusiastic. Okay, so this is sort of like a little bit of a callback to our Jennifer Aniston episode. So Westman atelier Gucci Westman. She works with every A list. Actress in the sun. And she has a new product. She has. There are like bronzing drops. Sun tone bronzing drops.

[Jennifer]

Oh, I saw those. I wanted to try them.

[Jessica]

They're really good. They're really good. I use the lightest one. Cause I'm quite fair and I have to be judicious with them. So just so I want to give you guys. And if anyone's like, really fair, be judicious. Don't squirt it out and just start spreading it all over your face.

[Jennifer]

A little drop will do you.

[Jessica]

Yeah, a little drop will do you. And I put it on my cheekies. And I'm sure you could use, like, all different. She probably has a tutorial that I've yet to watch. But, like, you know, just watch her tutorial.

[Jennifer]

Just like so classic. You, like, I don't know, just open it up, start smearing it on. It's the best. Why do you think she needs the 6 in 1 skincare with no directions?

[Jessica]

I know. I was like, it beeps, it boops, it pops. That thing does have a lot of cool settings though, like volumizing and smoothing, all that stuff.

[Jennifer]

Okay, so what are the bronzing drops from Westminatello?

[Jessica]

Thank you. They give you. When she described it, this was all I had to do to be like, sold on it. It gives you the Jennifer Aniston glow. You know how Jennifer Addison isn't like, I'd never be like, oh, she's known for her.

[Jennifer]

No, she looks sun kissed but without a deep tan.

[Jessica]

Exactly. So she said, I bottled Jennifer Aniston's glow.

[Jennifer]

Oh, does she do her makeup a lot? I bet she does.

[Jessica]

Yeah, she does.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jessica]

Or, you know, in the past at least.

[Jennifer]

So could I mix those into moisturizer? Could I mix?

[Jessica]

You could. You could. This is. They're kind of like experimental.

[Jennifer]

You like a product where there's no learning curve. It just do it however you want.

[Jessica]

No precision.

[Jennifer]

This is the girl that puts like, leave in treatments on her dry hair. She's like, I was spraying it on my dry. I'm supposed to go on damp hair.

[Jessica]

She just taught me how to use K18. I was using it really cuck. So yeah, this is like a really cool product. Do check it out. Love it.

[Jennifer]

Okay. Raise a wand to Westminate atelier. Well, I am not gonna go get my beauty sleep. I'm gonna go play ping pong with Atlas because he waited patiently while I was recording.

[Jessica]

I know, I know. He's good.

[Jennifer]

But you all should get your beauty sleep.

[Jessica]

Get that sleep. We hope you enjoyed the show.

[Jennifer]

It's your reviews and feedback that help us make the podcast even better. Head over to itunes to rate and review us or email your thoughts to infoatmascara.com we also want to answer your.

[Jessica]

Beauty questions and hear what products you love to share a raizoan product review or to ask a beauty question, Email us at infoatmascara.

[Jennifer]

If you send it as a voice memo file, we can even share your voice on the podcast. You can also do that by leaving us a voice message. Our phone number in the United States is 646-448-18182.

[Jessica]

Thanks so much for listening.

[G]

Live from the Internet's red carpet, it's Vrbo's 2025 vacation rentals of the Year, our annual showcase of the very best of Vrbo. Selected from over 2 million private vacation rentals, this year's list features breakout hits like a ski in, ski out, mountain chalet and a modern beach compound. With unobstructed ocean views and with discounts on select stays of one week or longer, these critically acclaimed homes might be more affordable than you'd think. Head over to vrbo.com that's vrbo to check out the official list and make it a vrbo.

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