Fat Mascara Podcast: "Everybody Loves This Caroline Hirons Interview" Summary
Podcast Information:
- Title: Fat Mascara
- Hosts: Jennifer Sullivan & Jessica Matlin
- Episode: Everybody Loves This Caroline Hirons Interview
- Release Date: May 23, 2025
Introduction and Context
In this pivotal episode of Fat Mascara, hosts Jen Sullivan and Jessica Matlin revisit one of their most popular interviews with renowned beauty expert Caroline Hirons. Released in May 2025, this episode serves as a retrospective as the hosts announce the winding down of the podcast due to Jen Sullivan's new full-time job. The interview with Caroline Hirons, originally conducted in February 2020, gains renewed significance against the backdrop of the COVID-19 pandemic and the surge in clean beauty trends.
Caroline Hirons: A Journey in Beauty
Early Career and Passion for Skincare (04:28 – 05:38)
Caroline Hirons opens up about her extensive career in the beauty industry, which began in 1997. Her deep-seated passion for skincare, as opposed to makeup, drove her to acquire specialized qualifications. Caroline recounts a serendipitous moment when Sylvie Shondkai offered her a job at a crucial time, marking the beginning of her influential journey.
"I worked in the beauty industry since '97 and just had a passion for skincare that was much stronger than makeup."
— Caroline Hirons [04:28]
The Importance of Skincare for Mental Health (05:27 – 06:10)
Caroline emphasizes the intertwined relationship between healthy skin and mental well-being. She highlights the fulfillment derived from helping individuals overcome skin issues such as rosacea and acne, underscoring the positive impact of her recommendations.
"The mental health aspect of having healthy skin. They go hand in hand."
— Caroline Hirons [05:38]
The Clean Beauty Debate
Fear-Mongering and the Clean Beauty Movement (07:05 – 10:22)
A significant portion of the interview delves into the contentious topic of clean beauty. Caroline critiques the lack of a unified definition for clean beauty and attributes the movement largely to fear-mongering tactics propagated by certain brands and organizations, particularly in California.
"Fear mongering. Who's doing brands and retailers and so do you."
— Caroline Hirons [07:23]
Caroline expresses strong disdain for the Environmental Working Group (EWG), labeling them as a foundational element of fear-mongering in the beauty industry. She argues that their lack of expertise, evidenced by the absence of toxicologists, undermines their credibility.
"They never started as a not-for-profit. They go on and on about the word toxic, but they don't hire anyone who actually knows what they are."
— Caroline Hirons [09:12]
Impact on Consumer Perception (09:46 – 10:28)
Caroline discusses how fear-based messaging misleads consumers, pushing brands to adopt "clean" labels more for marketing purposes than genuine product safety. She emphasizes that toxicity is dose-dependent, using water as an example to illustrate her point.
"The toxicity is dose-dependent. That's another T-shirt. Toxicity is dose-dependent."
— Caroline Hirons [10:22]
Industry Insights and Product Vetting
Evaluating Skincare Products (15:01 – 26:29)
Caroline shares her meticulous approach to vetting skincare products, emphasizing the importance of formula over trends. She discusses various criteria such as ingredient lists, formula stability, texture, and personal testing over time.
"Formula is king. If I look at a brand and I know what testing they've done and I know what ingredients they're using... that's how I do it."
— Caroline Hirons [15:25]
Favorite Products and Recommendations (32:49 – 33:54)
When asked about her favorite products across different categories, Caroline highlights:
- Cleanser: Emma Hardy Moringa Balm Cleanser
- Eye Cream: Kate Somerville Line Release
- Mascara: Clinique and Estee Lauder mascaras
- Moisturizer: Neutrogena Hydro Boost (affordable) and Kate Somerville Deep Tissue Repair Peptide Cake (high-end)
"Emma Hardy Moringa Balm Cleanser was the first cleanser I thought, God, this is amazing."
— Caroline Hirons [32:49]
Navigating the Beauty Influencer Landscape
Standing Apart in a Saturated Market (16:35 – 17:57)
Caroline discusses her unique position in the beauty influencer space, attributing her distinctive voice to her experience and age. She contrasts herself with younger influencers, emphasizing her credibility and hands-on expertise gained from two decades in the industry.
"I'm not an influencer, but I have influence. I separated myself by being at least 10 years older than all of them. I'm 50."
— Caroline Hirons [17:57]
Handling Criticism and Brand Relationships (18:20 – 23:37)
Addressing her no-nonsense reputation, Caroline recounts instances where her honest critiques led to backlash from brands like Glossier and Paula's Choice. She defends her approach, explaining that constructive criticism is essential for industry improvement, despite personal and professional conflicts.
"I believe I've gone in fair and then I get attacked. It's funny, like it's a very sensitive time in the culture right now where a lot of people can't take a punch."
— Caroline Hirons [21:07]
However, she notes that some brands do respond positively, citing Estee Lauder's acknowledgment of her feedback as an example.
"They got the message loud and clear. I received notice that I had been heard."
— Caroline Hirons [23:22]
Views on Anti-Aging and Terminology
Embracing Aging with Confidence (31:07 – 32:38)
Caroline discusses her stance on anti-aging terminology, preferring "pro-aging" over "anti-aging." She expresses frustration with the stigmatization of aging in the beauty industry and champions the idea that aging is a privilege.
"I'm pro-aging. In my very first YouTube video, I said, 'Aging is a privilege that not everyone gets.'"
— Caroline Hirons [31:07]
She also highlights how her mature perspective offers a refreshing contrast to younger influencers, allowing her to connect authentically with a broader audience.
Technical Insights on Skincare Ingredients
Hyaluronic Acid and Mineral Oil (28:22 – 30:58)
Caroline delves into the nuances of essential skincare ingredients:
-
Hyaluronic Acid (HA): She clarifies misconceptions about HA sensitivity, attributing any adverse reactions to the pH of the product rather than the ingredient itself. She advocates for multi-weighted HA formulations to maximize benefits.
"It's more about the pH of the formula. So molecular weight, you know, all..."
— Caroline Hirons [28:36] -
Mineral Oil: Initially opposed to mineral oil, Caroline has softened her stance, recognizing its benefits as an occlusive agent for sensitive skin types.
"I was completely anti, but now I see it can be very good in an occlusive product for people with redness or rosacea."
— Caroline Hirons [29:26]
Personal Anecdotes and Light-hearted Moments
Favorite Products and Fun Facts (34:07 – 35:25)
In the concluding segments, Caroline shares personal tidbits, such as her favorite ice cream flavor—Haagen Dazs Pralines and Cream during pregnancy—and her obsession with attending gigs. She also humorously recounts her enthusiasm for TV shows like Schitt's Creek and her admiration for figures like Dan Levy and Oprah.
"I am obsessed with E.W. David. Like, constantly."
— Caroline Hirons [34:48]
Final Thoughts and Farewell
As the interview wraps up, Caroline expresses gratitude for the discussion, emphasizing her commitment to honest and effective skincare advice. The hosts encourage listeners to engage with the podcast through reviews and beauty questions, fostering a community of informed beauty enthusiasts.
"It's been great. Thank you for having me."
— Caroline Hirons [35:24]
Conclusion
This episode of Fat Mascara not only highlights Caroline Hirons' profound impact on the beauty industry but also serves as a reflective piece as the hosts prepare to conclude their podcast journey. Through candid discussions on clean beauty, ingredient knowledge, and the challenges of maintaining integrity in a profit-driven industry, the interview offers valuable insights for both beauty professionals and enthusiasts alike.
Notable Quotes:
- "Fear mongering. Who's doing brands and retailers and so do you." — Caroline Hirons [07:23]
- "The toxicity is dose-dependent. That's another T-shirt. Toxicity is dose-dependent." — Caroline Hirons [10:22]
- "Formula is king. If I look at a brand and I know what testing they've done and I know what ingredients they're using... that's how I do it." — Caroline Hirons [15:25]
- "I'm pro-aging. In my very first YouTube video, I said, 'Aging is a privilege that not everyone gets.'" — Caroline Hirons [31:07]
- "I was completely anti, but now I see it can be very good in an occlusive product for people with redness or rosacea." — Caroline Hirons [29:26]
Key Takeaways:
- Caroline Hirons advocates for honest, informed discussions in the beauty industry, particularly criticizing fear-based marketing tactics.
- She emphasizes the importance of understanding product formulas and ingredients over following trends.
- Caroline maintains that aging should be embraced, challenging the industry's often negative portrayal of growing older.
- Her experiences underline the challenges and rewards of being a no-nonsense voice in a heavily influenced market.
For those interested in Caroline Hirons' perspectives and deep dives into skincare, this Fat Mascara episode is an invaluable resource that encapsulates her expertise and candid approach to beauty.