Fat Mascara Podcast Summary
Episode: Perfumer Francis Kurkdjian on Art, Commerce, and Dupe Culture
Release Date: March 17, 2025
Hosts: Jennifer Sullivan & Jessica Matlin
Guest: Francis Kurkdjian

Introduction

In this captivating episode of Fat Mascara, hosts Jennifer Sullivan and Jessica Matlin engage in an in-depth conversation with renowned perfumer Francis Kurkdjian. Drawing from his extensive experience in both his own fragrance house and roles with prestigious brands like Christian Dior and Jean Paul Gaultier, Kurkdjian delves into the intricate balance between art and commerce in the world of perfumery, the challenges posed by dupe culture, and his personal philosophies on scent creation.

Guest Background and Early Inspiration

Francis Kurkdjian, the creative force behind Maison Francis Kurkdjian and the Perfume Creation Director for Christian Dior since 2021, shares his journey into the world of fragrances. Reflecting on his teenage years, Kurkdjian recounts how an influential article and his mother's penchant for perfumes ignited his passion for becoming a perfumer.

[09:27] Francis Kurkdjian: "When you open a bottle of perfume, it's a silent world that steps out. It's like humanity, basically."

Philosophy and Approach to Perfumery

Kurkdjian emphasizes the importance of storytelling in perfumery, asserting that a fragrance is not merely a scent but a narrative encapsulated in a bottle. He believes that the name, bottle design, and advertising are as vital as the fragrance itself in creating a holistic sensory experience.

[14:04] Francis Kurkdjian: "The name of the perfume is as important as the scent. It's like naming a masterpiece painting."

He discusses his creative process, which begins with understanding the purpose and story behind each fragrance. Whether developing scents for his maison or collaborating with fashion houses like Dior, Kurkdjian focuses on translating stories and emotions into olfactory expressions.

[26:16] Francis Kurkdjian: "It's all about why. What is the story? Why are we launching a new perfume?"

Balancing Art and Commerce

Kurkdjian explores the delicate balance between maintaining artistic integrity and meeting commercial demands. While he strives to infuse each creation with universal appeal, he acknowledges the necessity of pleasing consumers to ensure a fragrance's success.

[28:14] Francis Kurkdjian: "I'm not free because when I create, even though there's an artistic beginning, I need to think about the final consumer."

He credits Albert Elbaz of Lanvin for instilling in him the importance of creating scents with universal resonance, transcending cultural and geographical boundaries.

[30:17] Francis Kurkdjian: "Think universal, not global. Universalism has depth and feelings."

Dupe Culture and Intellectual Property

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the pervasive issue of dupe culture in the fragrance industry. Kurkdjian expresses his frustration with brands that imitate successful scents without maintaining the quality and craftsmanship synonymous with maisons like his own.

[41:21] Francis Kurkdjian: "You can claim you are mimicking, but there is no exact copy of Rouge because Rouge is very, very, very special."

He criticizes the lack of intellectual property protection for fragrance formulas, likening it to the legal protections afforded to other forms of creative work like music or handbag designs.

[42:47] Francis Kurkdjian: "Why can't we protect the fragrance recipe while you can protect the design of a handbag? It doesn't make any sense to me."

Despite the challenges, Kurkdjian appreciates the relevance that dupe culture brings to his work, recognizing that imitation signifies influence and presence in the market.

[45:02] Francis Kurkdjian: "If you are copied, it means you are relevant, it means you exist."

Challenges and Failures

Kurkdjian is candid about his experiences with unsuccessful projects, highlighting the importance of simplicity and practicality in fragrance design. He recounts his collaboration with Jean Paul Gaultier, where intricate bottle designs and complex concepts led to commercial failures.

[34:19] Francis Kurkdjian: "Fragile was cool, but too complicated. You need two hands to spray the bottle. What the heck doesn't make sense."

These experiences have reinforced his commitment to creating fragrances that resonate on a fundamental level with consumers.

Impact and Legacy

Discussing his most successful creations, Kurkdjian names fragrances like "Green Tea" for Elizabeth Arden and "Au Noir" for Christian Dior, noting their enduring presence in the market as evidence of their universal appeal.

[39:37] Francis Kurkdjian: "When you have a hit, are you going to change the course of perfume history? That's interesting to me."

He proudly cites "Rouge" (Baccarat Rouge) as a game-changer in the industry, influencing contemporary perfumery trends and inspiring countless imitators.

[40:49] Francis Kurkdjian: "Rouge is like the name of a family. It smells like Baccarat Rouge, similar to how 'Number Five' by Chanel defines a category."

Personal Insights and Daily Life

Beyond his professional endeavors, Kurkdjian shares personal habits and preferences. He maintains a minimalist approach to personal grooming, using minimal products to preserve his skin's health. Although he enjoys wearing fragrances on weekends to receive feedback, he prefers to remain scent-free otherwise.

[53:56] Francis Kurkdjian: "I don't wear perfumes myself because I always feel that there is someone in my back or someone around. I'm not comfortable."

He values honesty and sincerity, expecting the same from his friends and colleagues, reflecting this philosophy in both his personal and professional interactions.

Upcoming Projects and Events

As Kurkdjian approaches his 30th anniversary in the fragrance industry, he announces an upcoming retrospective event in Paris, celebrating three decades of his contributions to perfumery. This event promises to showcase his innovative works and explore the evolution of his craft.

[52:00] Francis Kurkdjian: "We're celebrating my 30th anniversary with a retrospective in Paris this fall, focusing on my past, present, and future work."

Conclusion

This episode of Fat Mascara offers a profound exploration into the artistry and business of perfumery through the lens of Francis Kurkdjian. His insights into the creative process, the impact of dupe culture, and his dedication to crafting universally appealing scents provide listeners with a deeper appreciation of what goes into making a successful fragrance. Kurkdjian's blend of honesty, passion, and commitment to quality underscores his influential role in the beauty industry.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• [09:27] Francis Kurkdjian: "When you open a bottle of perfume, it's a silent world that steps out. It's like humanity, basically."

• [14:04] Francis Kurkdjian: "The name of the perfume is as important as the scent. It's like naming a masterpiece painting."

• [26:16] Francis Kurkdjian: "It's all about why. What is the story? Why are we launching a new perfume?"

• [28:14] Francis Kurkdjian: "I'm not free because when I create, even though there's an artistic beginning, I need to think about the final consumer."

• [30:17] Francis Kurkdjian: "Think universal, not global. Universalism has depth and feelings."

• [41:21] Francis Kurkdjian: "You can claim you are mimicking, but there is no exact copy of Rouge because Rouge is very, very, very special."

• [42:47] Francis Kurkdjian: "Why can't we protect the fragrance recipe while you can protect the design of a handbag? It doesn't make any sense to me."

• [39:37] Francis Kurkdjian: "When you have a hit, are you going to change the course of perfume history? That's interesting to me."

• [40:49] Francis Kurkdjian: "Rouge is like the name of a family. It smells like Baccarat Rouge, similar to how 'Number Five' by Chanel defines a category."

• [53:56] Francis Kurkdjian: "I don't wear perfumes myself because I always feel that there is someone in my back or someone around. I'm not comfortable."

Additional Information

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